followHIM - Doctrine & Covenants 30-36 : Dr. Robert L. Millet Part I

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

Catch the excitement of the early days of missionary work as Dr. Robert Millet visits and reminds us why Oliver Cowdery, Parley P. Pratt, Peter Whitmer, and Ziba Peterson are the original Fantastic Four. Learn how their mission to the Lamanites didn’t go as expected but what the Lord had in mind was much more significant. These early missionaries teach us to get people to the Grove, share from the Book of Mormon, and remember our strength is our diversity.Shownotes: www.followhim.coYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith. And I'm John, by the way. We love to learn. We love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow Him. My friends, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm here with the amazing John, by the way. Welcome, John. Thanks for that intro. The amazing John, by the way. Yeah, that's how they should greet you every morning, coming into the kitchen.

And now, the amazing John, by the way. My kids would just roll their eyes, pass the milk, dad. Yeah. Standing ovation. Sometimes people say, you're just such a great teacher. Thank you so much. And then I go home and my wife says, you can do the dishes. Don't you know who I am? Right? She says, yep. You're the guy who does the dishes. Precisely. On our Instagram page, someone said, I love to hear that you guys are learning too. Sometimes I think we forget that even older people or church leaders are learning and still have so much to learn. It's awesome to know that we're, uh, we are all going through the same

things. I think you and I have made that comment. Yes. Well, let's, let's mention the older people. Thank you for that. Um, but also John, I think we have learned more than anyone. Well, this is why I love doing this, because it has changed my Doctrine and Covenants so far, and so much. And so I feel like, especially today with our wonderful guest, I'm going to be taking a lot of notes. Yeah. Why don't we introduce him, John? I will do that. Today we have with us Dr. Robert L. Millett. And Brother Millett was born in Baton Rouge, and a PhD from Florida State in religious studies. He worked with LDS social services, LDS seminaries and institutes, joined the BYU religious education faculty in 1983. He served as the ancient scripture department chair and as the dean of religious education. He's done a lot of outreach with the evangelical community and has, I don't know,

something like 60 different publications. And I have a personal note. Brother Millett completely changed my life. I was in the JSB, the Joseph Smith building one day, and I said, hey, what should I do with my life? And he said, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. And he told me about this new Masters of Religious Education program. And probably with some help from Brother Millett, they lowered the bar and let me in, which was just an amazing experience. And he has been a friend and mentor to me ever since that time. And so I'm really grateful to have him here today. We are so excited to have you. In fact, I'm pretty nervous. I'm going to get past it. I know I'm going to get past it, but I think my kids noticed this morning. They said, are you recording today? I said, yeah, we're doing another podcast episode. And

they said, who is coming on this time right is it tony and i'm so casual with some of these people and i said no it's like it's um a really a very important sorry tony if you're listening it's a very important guest and uh and i said it's it's bob bob millet robert millet and um they did of course, my children are going, is that, is that a big deal? I said, yeah. And they said, is he like, is he like the Mr. Beast of your world? So if you guys don't know, Mr. Beast is a big time YouTuber that my, that my children just love to watch. And I said, yes, Bob Millett is the Mr. Beast of the religious education world. So just so you know that that's your new title.

In this week, Dr. Millett, this week in Come Follow Me, we're going to look at seven sections of the Doctrine and Covenants. And we bring up a lot of new names. Suddenly you hit section 30 and you're seeing names, a lot of names that you haven't seen before. Names that we've maybe touched on a little bit in our previous episodes. But I'd love to hear your take on some of these. Let me read some of them off. The Whitmers we know, but we have a name, Thomas B. Marsh, Parley Pratt, Orson Pratt. I think it's, is it Ziba Peterson or Ziba Peterson?

I've heard it pronounced both ways. I usually pronounce it Ziba Peterson? I've heard it pronounced both ways. I usually pronounce it Ziba Peterson. Ziba Peterson, Ezra Thayer, Northrop Sweet, Sidney Rigdon, and Edward Partridge. Now, some of these we've mentioned before, but if I'm a first-time reader of the Doctrine and Covenants, this is really my first jump into church history. I want to know a little something about these people. What can you tell us about these men and how they've become acquainted with Joseph Smith and this brand new church? Well, you know, if you look back on how people came into the church and who came into the church and under what circumstances, you gain an appreciation, maybe a new appreciation for the expression, the field is white, all ready to harvest. We hear that almost always Latter-day Saints will think of, it's is white, all ready to harvest. We hear that almost

always Latter-day Saints will think of, it's a great day to do missionary work, and that's true. But I think of it, too, in terms of the Lord has so orchestrated things that he put people in key positions. And men and women that were raised up to do very significant things in the kingdom just happened to be here and there. And this person happened to be a good friend with that one. And suddenly you have a growing church. And so I think these early sections are a testament or a testimony of God's ability to see the end from the beginning and be able to put people in just the right place at just

the right time. Yeah, because it seems like all of a sudden the floodgates open. You know, here we are three or four months in and, right, all these key players start coming onto the scene. You know, one other thought, and that is how many of these early saints were in a mode of preparation, a mode of looking for what they often used to call the ancient order of things. You have people that are serious students of the Bible. You have people that are very prayerful.

They're searching for truth. They're not finding it and not satisfied. That whole mindset among so many people, I mean, and it isn't just true here. Think about later in the history of our church as Wilford Woodruff discovers, what, 600 people praying for the ancient order of things to come back. Well, that's what you're seeing in the early days. In these early sections, they aren't as filled with what we might call heavy doctrine, but they're teaching a great lesson about the Lord's omniscience. I like the phrase that I've heard Tony Sweat use about seekers. There were just a lot of seekers back then, really looking. And it's kind of nice to see that kind of, would you call it a cultural backdrop of how many people were seeking? I mean, here's Parley Pratt

that goes on his own to be a preacher, but they're all seeking something better. Should we talk about Parley and Ziba? Do we want to talk about these as individuals? Thomas B. Marsh, this is section 31 and 32. What do we know about these specific individuals? Is there anything unique about them that we should know? Most people know about Thomas B. Marsh, the bad side. They've heard about the milk

and the milk strippings. But he's a fascinating guy. He's born in 1799, so he's six years older than Joseph, young Joseph. He runs away from home at age 14 and supports himself in various jobs. After he was married, he and his wife moved to Boston, and it's in Boston that he joins the Methodist Church. This becomes interesting because a surprising number of Latter-day Saints had been Methodists prior to coming into the church. We baptized a lot of Methodists, and I think that says something about the teachings of John Wesley. I think it says something about how very close they were to having the fullness, but they didn't. He feels spiritually directed, Thomas does, to go west.

He goes west. He stays there for a few months. He's approached by a woman who just says, have you heard about Joseph Smith and the Golden Bible? He looks into it. He goes back to Boston, talks to his wife about it, and she becomes touched by the same spirit that he felt, the spirit of inquiry and interest. Moves to Palmyra in 1830 and soon met Joseph Smith, baptized by David Whitmer. This is a man who had great capabilities. This is a man who became the first president of the Twelve when the Twelve are called. And so it's a man who clearly has been moved upon and prepared by the Lord.

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. And I remember when you go visit the Grandin Building there in Palmyra, you'll hear Thomas B. Marsh read the Book of Mormon. It wasn't even completed. He was able to grab one of those 16-sheet sections and just read that. So already the Book of Mormon is doing its work in just tiny little pieces. What can you tell us about the Prats and Ziva Peterson? Parley's autobiography is a classic. I mean, this man has more revelations in a year than I will have in a lifetime.

Just an amazing person. Again, a seeker, a true seeker. Born in 1807, two years after Joseph. Burlington, New York. As you read those early years of Parley, he marries Thankful Halsey is her name. He takes her to Ohio. He makes contact with, comes to know Sidney Rigdon, who at this point is sort of a companion, co-worker with Alexander Campbell. Alexander Campbell had been, he and his father, Thomas Campbell, had been Scottish Presbyterians.

They leave Scotland, they come to America, and as they get here, they both decide that they're not satisfied with what they're finding in Presbyterianism. Neither one of them like the creeds. And so Alexander, in particular, begins doing something else. He becomes known as a Reformed Baptist. Of course, Alexander Campbell eventually becomes what we call the father of disciples of Christ or the Church of Christ. It was a restorationist group. They were looking for the ancient order of things. And so Sidney meets him, and they come together, and they often call their movement Campbellism. Campbell was anti-credal. He would say, the only creed is the Bible, or the only creed is Christ. So anti-credal, anxious for this ancient order of things.

But he had differences with Sidney in this sense. Most people that read or know about Alexander Campbell know he's a brilliant man. He's a rationalist. Now, he believes in spiritual experience, but he's very nervous about spiritual experiences. And so he's nervous about the gifts of the Spirit. These two men differ in two ways. One is Sidney believes the gifts of the Spirit should exist. They should be around. There was a sentiment called cessationism. It's still present today where people believe that the ancient gifts died with the apostles in the first century. So they disagree over that.

The other thing is, Sidney took very seriously chapters 4 and 5 in Acts about the saints having all things in common, this holy economic order, and Campbell is opposed to that. And so they break. And then Sidney is going about his business as a Reformed Baptist when Parley and his group who are on missions, the Lamanite mission, Parley says, I think we ought to go to Ohio. He meets his old friend Sidney, converts him. And then a humongous number of people come in, both from the Campbellite movement, the Methodists, et cetera. You know, 125 or so people are baptized in that short amount of time. That doubles the size of the church. It did.

Right. In this little mission that we're going to talk about. So what's interesting is it sounds like a lot of these people know each other before they know Joseph. No, that's right. Yeah, and they bring each other in. You know, something as simple as Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer. They become in-laws. You know, Oliver marries a Whitmer.

Hiram Page is married to a Whitmer. Yeah, and then they end up joining as families, as groups. Let's take a look at some of the verses in section 30. And I read the first couple of verses there, and I thought, okay, is this for me? Your mind has been more on the things of the earth. I mean, right there in the proclamation on the family, it says I'm supposed to be a provider. And that occupies a lot of my thoughts and a lot of my time. I mean, we have any comments on some of these things that the Lord's telling them?

Well, those first two verses, I mean, let's just read, Behold, I say unto you, David, you feared man and have not relied on me for strength as you ought. But your mind has been on the things of the earth more than on the things of me, your maker, and the ministry whereunto you've been called. I think most historians agree that this refers to the fact that David was rather swayed by Hiram Page's argument with the peep stone. That is, he was pretty convinced there was something to this. There are really two things that could have kept David from going that way, the promptings of the Spirit, or he could have talked to the prophet Joseph about it.

He did. He did neither of those. And so consequently, David got sucked into this kind of cultish movement that Hiram Page is involved with, and the Lord is scolding him for it here. And so he's, you know, you have different people, Peter Whitmer Jr., etc., that are named. Sections 28 and 30 really sort of go together. 28 refers to the Lamanite mission, 30 refers to the Lamanite mission. So we're talking about Oliver Cowdery, Parley P. Pratt, Ziba Peterson, and Peter Whitmer Jr. Those four become the missionaries that

feel the strong need to go and preach the gospel to the Lamanites. And you can look back and say, well, they didn't have great success among the Native Americans. No, there's another one of those situations where the Lord has them meet someone, and suddenly all things break loose. Right. And when we talk mission, you know, we don't think, oh, it's, they're going from, you know, from New York out to, you know, towards Independence, right? Independence, Missouri. We don't think of it as that far.

This is a long way. It's well over a thousand miles that they walk. I don't like to drive a thousand miles. And it was in snow. Don't we have reports they were knee-deep in snow and stuff? It's kind of horrible. And here's the other thing. This is so stunning to me. These are brand new members. Yeah. These are people that just come into the church a matter of weeks ago, and now you're going on a thousand mile walk for the church. And I mean, we've had missionaries previous to this. We had Samuel Smith going around New York, Joseph Smith,

senior, served as a missionary for a small period of time. But this has got to be the first major big mission. Yeah, we're going to go pretty far out to the Lamanites. And it's just that they stopped by Kirtland on the way. You know, Parley bears testimony of the Book of Mormon to Sidney, gives it to him. He's converted. I mean, and then Sidney goes around to those little pockets of people and converts them. That he knows. Yeah.

It's funny. In the Come Follow Me manual, the first paragraph says, no one had been a member of the church for more than six months when all this is happening. It's like, yeah, good point. Not even the prophet himself, right? A member of the church, yeah, formerly organized church. The church is six months old. When you think about it, we have years to think about and prepare for a mission.

They're going on a mission after four weeks or a period of days. Yeah. Thomas B. Marsh. I've read these 16 pages and let me tell you about them. Yeah. There's wonderful just little snips from Doctrine and Covenants 30 and from most of these sections that can be really applicable to missionaries today. I've got a nephew who was just called last night to serve in Columbia. And you've got this idea, the time has come that is expedient in me. This is verse five,

that you should open your mouth to declare my gospel. I love that. The time has come. It is now your turn. And that's my nephew, Wyatt Booth. Wyatt Booth, it is time. Open your mouth and declare my gospel. Andrew, your son just got home, John, from- Iceland. From Iceland, right? It was his time. And I love that, that the Lord says, now it's your turn. And my daughter is in the other room as we speak, doing Zoom MTC, preparing to go to Tahiti, French-speaking Tahiti.

Hopefully she doesn't have to walk, right? Like these guys did. Not a lot of snow in Tahiti, from what we've heard. Yeah, she's like, I was knee-deep in sand. This is one we, again, we don't pay a whole lot of attention to these early sections. I want to tell you a story about verses three and four. Is that okay? A personal experience? When I was Institute Director at Florida State, it was not uncommon

for the full-time missionaries to come around regularly, ask questions, often ask for scriptural passages. One day they knocked on the door. I invited them in. We're sitting in my office, and the senior companion says, Brother Millett, can you give us a good Bible passage on eternal marriage? We have this great family. They're just as golden as they can be, but they're sort of hung up on the church's belief about eternal marriage. Can you give us a Bible passage on that? And I said, no. And they said, do you mean no? I said, no. Why can't you? Because I can't. And he said, you can't or you won't? I said, I can't and I won't. I said, I can't give it to you because it's not a biblical doctrine. Now, we can read some things into New Testament things, but it just clearly isn't there.

And then he asked this question. He said, Brother Millett, don't we believe in eternal marriage? I said, I think we do. And he said, well, how can we believe in this if it's not in the Bible? There's this great moment here, and I said, Elder, has it ever occurred to you that if the fullness of the gospel were in the Bible, we wouldn't have needed a restoration? And it's like he came to light again. He said, oh, yeah, okay. And then I suggest that you go and read to them from a few verses from section 132 in the Doctrine and Covenants.

His response was, I don't think they're going to pay any attention to this Doctrine and Covenants stuff. I said, you know what? You've gone to teach them about a restoration. Read the scriptures. Now, I say all that because look in verse 3 and 4 to what the Lord calls upon Thomas to do. Lift up your heart and rejoice, for the hour of your mission has come. Your tongue shall be loosed, and you shall declare glad tidings of great joy unto this generation. If we stop there, you'd say, glad tidings of great joy. Where have I heard that before?

Well, that's the message of the angels, you know. Luke 2. Yeah. And so you might be tempted at that point to say, well, so do I go out and I'm going to go out and preach the Sermon on the Mount? I'm going to go out and preach the Bread of Life sermon? Am I going to go and tell Jesus' parables? Well, those would all be nice to talk about and preach. But look what's said in verse 4, and this is powerful.

You shall declare the things which have been revealed to my servant Joseph Smith, Jr. And this is powerful. My old friend Joseph McConkie used to say, when we preach the gospel, we need to stay in context. Meaning, we teach our strength. We teach our contribution. We love the New Testament, and of course we love to tell people we love the New Testament, but that isn't our distinctive message. Our distinctive message is what God has revealed through Joseph Smith and his successors.

And so I think those are very powerful. It's a very similar message to what, and you'll get to it later, in section 49, regarding what Leman Copley, Parley P. Pratt, and Sidney Rigdon are not to do when they go to the shakers. You're not to reason with them according to what you've been taught, they've been taught, or what they teach. You're to reason with them according to what you've been taught by these missionaries. That's fantastic. It reminds me of, if you go back to verse 11, when you're telling that story, your whole labor, this is verse 11 of section 30, your whole labor shall be in Zion with all your soul and henceforth you shall ever open your mouth in my cause, right?

That's this restoration, not fearing what man can do, not fearing what man can do. I think a lot of the times when we say, well, let's just talk mission in Scotland, and they're preaching in this particular area and having zero success. They talk among themselves, and they reason as follows. What if we didn't teach Joseph Smith and restoration right now? What if we just went and taught some New Testament Christian things? And so they do that, and people listen to them. Of course, they don't baptize anybody. But the most important thing is, he said, we found ourselves wrapped in a spirit of darkness and gloom. He said it stayed with us. It wouldn't go away. Early one morning,

President McKay's father goes out to a cave and kneels there in prayer and asks, what are we doing wrong? And the Lord says, you preach Joseph Smith. You go back and teach Joseph Smith. They do so. They have opposition. But they begin baptizing people. It's stay in context. The three of us here, I know, love the Bible and have taught it, you guys more than I have.

But I thank you for bringing out Joseph McConkie. He had a whole book about this, that it's not common ground that we seek. There's nothing common about our message, he would say. The ground we want to get people to is the sacred grove. In fact, he said you get them there by the most direct route to the sacred grove. That's how you answer their questions. How fast can we get them to the sacred grove? And I always loved that idea that we're not, see, we're just the same as you.

But well, actually, the heavens have been opened and the visions and blessings of old are returning. There's new revelation. And that's why we're sitting here today. I think this goes back to our discussion with Dr. Muehlstein as well, John. When we talk about the gathering of Israel, that's going to happen through the Book of Mormon. That's going to happen. The Book of Mormon is the sign of the gathering of Israel. Israel will respond to the Book of Mormon.

They will. I saw that in my own mission that people would say, there was something about the Book of Mormon that spoke to them, right? That just said, I don't know why I'm listening to you. Everyone tells me not to listen to you, but I really like this book. I really like this feeling. There's something about the Book of Mormon. If you throw out Joseph Smith and the Restoration and teach the Bible, which we love, we love the Bible,

you're going to miss the gathering of Israel. Well, and we've lost our strength. Our strength is in our distinctiveness, not in our similarities. We certainly want to build common ground with people of other faiths, but when it comes down to it, we have to stand up for what has specifically been given to us. Yeah, we don't want to fall under condemnation for taking lightly the things we have received. That is exactly right. President Benson's favorite scripture, I think. So am I correct in saying that these opening sections are all mission calls? Yes, this is just calling people to missionary service. 30, 31, 32, 33. As I'm reading this, I'm going, I'm hearing almost the exact same message in all

of them. Declare my gospel, open your mouth, declare my gospel, open your mouth. I'm just seeing these same phrases over and over. And by the time you get to 33, and we'll get there in a minute, but you'll have the Lord saying, open your mouth three different times, open your mouth. Yeah. I was going to ask you, Brother Millett, is there anything that we know about Thomas B. Marsh's family? Because that seems to be a focus there in section 31. We know he was a runaway, but even down to verse five, wherefore your family shall live. What do we know? I've read as much as I can on this, and no one seems to know exactly what's being talked about there. I don't know that he had any particular health problems or challenges in his own family. And some historians have suggested it's his extended family, perhaps. But there doesn't seem to be anything specifically wrong with his immediate family.

Well, and these verses, if we apply them, can bless so many as well, because as we go through our callings and our experience in the church, we have times where we worry about our own families or we're away from them a lot. And so I've always loved these verses that kind of, I'll take care of your family. Yeah. I think, John, I don't know if the, I haven't read a mission call in a while. I know they've been changed. I know they get changed every once in a while, but if I remember my mission call correctly, you can probably remember it was, you are to leave behind all temporal personal affairs, right? You are to leave those things behind. And I think that's, the Lord is saying, when he says the laborer is worthy of his hire, that's section 31 verse 5. That's Matthew 10 language. That's to the apostles.

You can have the expectation that I'm going to take care of you, right? That I'm going to pay you in my own way. And he calls it laden with sheaves upon your back. I don't know if I would take that in a job if someone says, hey, your salary, you're going to be laden with sheaves, but it sounds good coming from the Lord. It's coming from the Lord. I'll take it. Yeah. A lot of agricultural metaphors here. Yeah. One other verse might be a bit mysterious and that's verse 10. Behold, I say unto you that you shall be a physician unto the church, but not unto the world, for they will not receive you. I don't know that Thomas B. Marsh had any medical training. I think it's clearly talking about a spiritual physician. You'll present the gospel, and it'll have a healing, blessing influence on people.

I like in verse seven the lord says i will open the hearts of the people yes that's an important that's an important point in missionary work that that you can present a message but the lord is the one who's going to who's going to give the increase that'll come that idea will come up again with edward partridge when we get to him yeah i will open the hearts of the people. The Lord is, what does he, he says over and over in scripture, I will go before your face. That's that same idea of I will open the hearts of the people. Your job is to teach the message. Yep. I want to go back to verses three and four that Brother Millett talked about. And just,

I tried to write a book about Christmas recently and was intrigued with that. To me, it's kind of a Christmas phrase, glad tidings of great joy or good tidings of great joy, and how often it occurs in the scriptures. And not in every case, but in many, many cases, it's about the birth of Christ. But here, talking about the restoration, and when I looked up the word tidings, it just means news. But scripturally, it's almost always good news. And here, when we think of, because we've heard it taught that gospel means good news. And glad tidings could be equal to, you know, gospel. And here's the restored gospel is glad tidings of good news.

I have two notes and I want to see what you think about these, Dr. Millett. Verse in section 30, verse six, he, the Lord does not tell you this is going to be easy. You will, you will be afflicted in all afflictions. Verse nine, be patient in afflictions. So I think it's important for us to realize that when we're called to the Lord's work, this is not going to be a walk in the park. It's going to be a walk in the snow. Well, you know, too, think about where else this is said. In the Book of Mormon, when the sons of Mosiah are about to go out, same thing. The Lord says you need to

have patience. You're going to have The Lord says you need to have patience. You're going to have afflictions. You need to have patience and deal with it. I want to do one other thing. I read a book, one of your books, about being a man of God. And look in verse 9, section 31, verse 9. He says, govern your house in meekness.

Now, this is specifically to Thomas B. Marsh, but let's talk about the idea of the righteous father just for a minute. I know you have plenty to say on this. How would I, you know, I'm a young father. I've got teenagers. I've got little ones in the house. What does it look like in your mind to govern my house in meekness? You know, meekness is an interesting virtue. Almost always people equate it with humility. Well, they're certainly close, but they're not exactly the same. I read a book years ago written

by, I think he was the Institute Director at University of Utah, and he wrote a book on the Beatitudes. And under meekness, he said meekness is poise under provocation. Now, think of Jesus. Wow. Think of Jesus before Annas and Caiaphas. Think of Jesus before Pilate and for Herod. And so poise under provocation, I think, has to do with—that's an illustration. I know that—I'll just confess that in our early years of marriage, I would lose my temper sometimes, and I would say things to the children.

I didn't cuss them or curse them, but I would be unkind, I think, and I grieved over that until, frankly, the Lord forgave me, and I was sort of changed in this. And that is, there's just no place, really, for a person who's serious about spiritual things, a father or a mother, who's constantly exploding on the family members. We've got to learn to get control. Meekness is poised under provocation. Hank, there was an article in the New Era by S. Michael Wilcox about the Beatitudes as well. I don't know if that's who you're referring to. He gave this great illustration about a car

crusher that would compress a car down to a pile of metal. He said that after they demonstrated this incredibly powerful machine, the man doing the demonstration asked somebody for their watch and nobody wanted to give him his watch. He's like, trust me. And they measured the watch and this machine was very strong, but apparently very precise. And it came rushing down and stopped a millimeter from smashing the crystal of the watch and same thing on the sides. And Brother Wilcox doesn't say who it was, but he says the church leader turned and said, we have just seen the greatest demonstration of meekness I have ever seen. Meekness is great power under complete control. And that sounds very much like poise under provocation, kind of the same thing.

And it was a topic that we spent some time here in the By The Way House because my son Andrew said, Dad, the church is trying to turn us all into a bunch of meek little church boys. And so I punched him in the face. No, I didn't. I don't think that when we looked up the dictionary.com definition of meekness, it was timid, spiritless, tame. I don't see Jesus that way. I don't see Captain Moroni that way. I had a teacher in college.

Somehow the word meekness come up. And the teacher said, the professor said, ain't no way in this world I want any of my children to be meek. People will step all over you. Well, you know, to me, that's silly. There's nothing weak about Jesus, nothing weak about Joseph Smith. He was meek as well. I love that. Do you remember that story we heard the other day, John, about the man who was Abner Cole, who was trying to print the Book of Mormon without the copyright, and he wants to fight Joseph Smith, right? He says, take your coat off, Smith. Let's go settle this outside. What did he say? Mr. Cole, it is cold. Put your coat back on and stop printing my book. And he did. Yeah.

Yeah, he did. Should we move forward into 32, 33? Have we... There's not much on 32 we haven't covered. It's basically about the Lamanite mission. By the way, speaking of this Lamanite mission, let's make sure everybody knows what they're being asked to do here. Do they know where they're going to go? I think they must have some idea. They go to one group of Native Americans, the Cataraugus Indians. They later, a group of them goes to across the Missouri River to a group of Indians. And I think Parley probably gives us more detail in his autobiography than anyone, where he just says, we were well received.

They identified with the God about which we were speaking and so forth. No converts that I know of. And they're out there just a day or two, right, across the Missouri. It's a bit like Zion's camp. The great thing that came out of Zion's camp wasn't, we're going to lift the difficulties for the saints. The great thing is the men that came through that became the leaders of the church, the 70 and the apostles. And I think the same way here.

What really comes out of that Lamanite mission is the discovery of people over there in Ohio who are just ready for the gospel. Yeah, I think as we move forward in this, we're going to find that one of the strategies of the men desired to go there, right? And so then the Lord says, yeah, go ahead. But not realizing what's going to happen in Ohio and who they're going to see, we might say, by the way. Yeah, very good. That's very impressive, John. Strange that you'd come up with that that i have them all marked in my scriptures they're all marked um yeah i think the major victories that are going to come out of this

are not necessarily converts like you said bob across the missouri but the kirtland stopover and also um the the look at independence, right? They're going to step into independence Missouri, not knowing that this is going to be a future home for them. Right. I don't think we can overstate how important it is that Party P. Pratt had met these Kirtland Campbellites and the other term you used, these- Reformed Baptists. Reformed Baptists.

Reformed Baptists, that he had known them before, then met Joseph Smith, then read the Book of Mormon, then been baptized, and then returns back to them. I don't think we can overemphasize how important Partie P. Pratt is, and that little connection to what happens in the future. That's what I was referring to when I said this divine orchestration that's taking place behind the scenes that no one can see at the time, but you look back on it and you marvel at God's wisdom. Yeah.

Our friend Carl Anderson, he likes to say the church was restored in Kirtland, right? That's right. It was born in New York, but it was restored in Kirtland, right? That's right. It was born in New York, but it was restored in Kirtland. He is a big advocate for Kirtland, Ohio, and I am too. Well, and I like what Brother Millett said about getting people in the same place. I remember when I was a student at BYU, Elder Maxwell came and spoke in the Marriott Center for some sort of a stake, you know, elders quorum training, whatever. I was, I think, in an elders quorum presidency in the Riviera. And he said something.

I wrote it down as fast as I could. I've never seen it published, but as accurate as I remember, he said that within the macro plan of salvation, the micro plan of salvation is composed of micro plans and that God governs the intersections of our lives and the people that we meet and when we meet them. And then very Maxwell, he said, they are all watched over by our heavenly father and his remarkable son who said in the acme of understatement, I am able to do my work. That's beautiful. And I love that idea that there's intersections and he's watching over him. We may not even be aware of it.

Over the years that I was at BYU, a number of times I'd have somebody from the business school would come and want to interview me about my goal setting programs. I haven't been a big goal setter during my life. I mean, I have a goal of eternal life for my family and me. And looking back, I realize that some of the most important things in my life that happened, happened with an impulse. I'm sitting, I'm a seminary teacher. I'm sitting there thinking about the lesson I'm about to go give. And suddenly the impression comes, you need to get into Institute and end up Tallahassee, Florida. I meet people in Tallahassee, Florida who impact on me. I can't measure the kind of training, the kind of leadership they had, the power. I'm just a different person. And throughout my life,

I just find again and again, a door opens. And unless it looks like an evil thing to do, I've generally speaking taken the door. And, you know, I have no regrets at all in looking back. I realize now those little impulses were small promptings, you know. Yeah. Just this last year, I did not have time for a podcast. John, you didn't have time for a podcast. John, you didn't have time for a podcast. This stumbled into our lap with our good friend, Steve Sorensen, and look what's happened, right? If I would have said, no, I've got other goals, I've got other plans, I think I would be missing out. So I'm really this down because that's so true. It was an impulse. I didn't have a goal. I run into Brother Millett. He says, get into this program.

I didn't have a goal. That's a really interesting point. I was going to bring up a statement from President Benson who said those who turn their lives over to God will find he can make a lot more out of their lives than they can. And one of those things that we've been talking about here, definitely for the prophet and for all of these people involved, that he would raise up friends. Raise up friends and pour out peace and that, yeah. And look at all these people getting him in the same place. Yeah. Look at all these people are being raised up, not just for the prophet, but for themselves too. I'm sure you guys face this same situation that I do, but because I'm more aged than you, I'm more prone to look back on my life and when I'm saying prayers especially, look back on my life and there comes to mind key

people whose testimonies changed me, whose way of living the gospel made me different than what I was. I mean, those people that were there that were so crucial. A Sunday school teacher that I had when I was 12. A priest advisor who changed my life. Is there anything in section 33 that we need to look at specifically? Yes, of course there is. I have a comment on verse one, and then we got to do the open your mouths thing that Brother Millett mentioned already. Do we know anything about these two men? Ezra Thayer. We know more about Ezra Thayer than we know about Northrop Sweet.

Ezra Thayer, born about 1791, I think it was. So he's what, nine, 14 years? 14 years older than Prophet. Some of Ezra's workmen began to tell him about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, and he angrily just rejected the idea. He knew the Smiths, both the father and Joseph and the brothers, because they'd work for him. And he definitely knew they were not educated men. And so he just said, I can't see what could come of that. And he became upset when different members of his family began to become interested.

Ezra's brother came to visit from Auburn, New York, and about 40 miles to the east. And he insisted that Ezra go with him to hear the Smiths, Hiram and Joseph, preach. The two brothers traveled about 12 miles to the Smith farm in Manchester. They arrive. They discover this large miles to the Smith farm in Manchester. They arrive. They discover this large crowd at the Smith home. And Hiram preaches. And as he preaches, Ezra's resistance to listening to the message just melted away. Here's the way he described it.

I wrote this down. Every word touched me to the inmost soul, he said. After the sermon, Hiram approached Ezra with a copy of the Book of Mormon. Ezra opened the book and immediately sensed it was true. I have a dear friend that was trained as a Southern Baptist pastor. Out of the blue and out of nowhere, he's going along about his business as a pastor preaching, when he and his wife, independent of one another, get a feeling they should move to Missouri. Where to? Well, they feel like they should go to Independence. They don't know anything

about Independence, but they go there. They get there, and he's there one day when his neighbor knocks on his door and gives to him a copy of the Book of Mormon. The neighbor left. He said, I picked up the copy of the Book of Mormon. I opened it, and I read the first verse, and the Spirit bore witness to me that this was true. I mean, most people have to work a little harder than that. He had a witness when he read the first verse. He felt the power of the book.

And so Ezra feels that power. He's baptized in October of 1830 by Parley P. Pratt. The fourth conference of the church, which would have been in June of 31, he's ordained a high priest. So he marches in Zion's camp, proved to be a real strength to the church. Sadly, after the martyrdom of Hiram and Joseph, he didn't follow the saints west, ended up finally in 1860 joining with the reorganization, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Ezra Thayer, Northrop Sweet, we know not very much at all. born in 1802, so he's three years younger than Joseph, born in New York, joined the church there. He apostatizes in 1831. That's a quick, very soon.

Here's a point I want to make, too. These are two people that aren't exactly among the great, known, powerful leaders of the church, but how interesting it is that so many wonderful and powerful things are in this section. Yeah. It reminds me like of the Book of Mormon. Think about where some of the great discourses are. They're given to people either in serious sin or in apostasy, right? Corianton.

Abinadi talking to the priest of Noah. Yeah. Alma talking to his errant son. I mean, and here you have- He gets some great stuff. You have powerful things being said in here, in this section, to two men that most of the saints have never heard of. And I love that.

I love that. I think that can tell us a little bit about the character of the Lord, because he might just say, well, these two, they're not going to stick around for the long haul. So, you know, let me talk to somebody who's going to be around for a while. In fact, let me ask you, before we get into the section, what do I do when my children, because I know my children are going to ask, how come so many of these people joined up and then eventually left, like the Whitmers and Ezra Thayer and Northrop's suite. I don't want to come across as, well, let's start judging people by how long they stayed in the church.

Right. So what do you, how do you, how do I... Let's take Ezra Thayer, for example. When does he leave when Joseph dies? President Harold B. Lee said he had served a mission in the Western States mission, and he said, we met as a group of missionaries at the Carthage jail, and his president turned to them and said, when Joseph Smith died, many of the saints died with him. And then he said, and so it has been through the years,

people unable to shift their allegiance to a new leader. Oh, but Joseph Fielding Smith isn't like David O. McKay. Oh, but Thomas Monson doesn't do things the same way Gordon Hinckley did. That important ability to shift allegiance was an issue. Let's take David Whitmer. David Whitmer was an amazing man. And boy, think of how foundational he was to the early church. The whole family, right?

And yet, look what happens. He gets Richard Anderson, Richard L. Anderson, when he wrote about the witnesses, he describes David this way. He said, so very often, and it certainly was the case with David, pride was the big issue. David, for example, didn't want the church to change. He liked it back when he first came into it. He was ordained a high priest, but he didn't think you should have the office of high priest. He couldn't move with the church.

He couldn't adjust. In other words, one thing about a true and living church, things that are living move. Things that are living change, things that are living change. And some people just could never make the change. That's good. I like that. Let's look at these individuals and what happened. We'll leave their judgment between them and the Lord. We'll just look at what happened and maybe see what we can learn from each of these individuals, because a lot of them, Thomas B. Marsh is going to be another one who is going to struggle later with, with the church. Ziba Peterson. Yeah. Ziba Peterson, same way. They're all going to struggle. And you know what? That,

that gives me hope that I'm going to struggle too. And the Lord, here he is speaking to these, speaking to these men. Well, look at verses 3 and 4. Here's what he states all the time. The Lord, the field is all ready to harvest. It is the 11th hour. That's the only place I can think of in the Doctrine and Covenants where that expression is used. It is the 11th hour and the last time that I shall call laborers into my vineyard.

And that just smacks of the language of Jacob 5, doesn't it? When the Lord of the vineyard says to his coworker, it's the last time we'll call labors into the vineyard. My vineyard has become corrupted every wit. There is none that doeth good, save it be few. They err in many instances because of priestcrafts, all having corrupt minds. Same language as the Book of Mormon language. Right. And he's also bringing in the 11th hour, the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. That's correct. I actually wrote in my margin next to verse 3, laborers in the vineyard, and next to verse 4, Zenos' allegory.

And I've heard Brother Millett lecture on this amazing thing that Jesus did towards the end of his time with the righteous in the new world, is that he expounded all the scriptures in one. And I thought, boy, he'd like to have a ticket to that. But look how he's putting these different revelations together right there. It's showing how all of the revelations bear a united witness of the Christ. And they aren't to be, I don't think they should be taught independent of one another. I had an occasion once when I was bishop years ago where a woman in our ward was our gospel doctrine teacher, and she was amazing.

She was really an excellent teacher. I slipped into the back of the chapel to listen to her one day, and we were studying the Old Testament, and the lesson that day was on Abraham. And she taught a great lesson, and a number of questions were asked. After the lesson, I went down and talked to her, told her I really enjoyed it. It was well done. I said, I have a question for you. She said, what?

I said, a number of the questions that were asked, you could have answered by referring to the book of Abraham and the Pearl of Great Price. And she said, Bishop, we're not studying the Pearl of Great Price. We're studying the Old Testament. I said, no, no, you're studying the gospel. And anything that sheds light on this verse or that passage, we draw upon. And I think, John, that's what you're talking about. To expound all the scriptures in one is to take occasion where you bring everything together.

One other experience, and I'll shut up, I promise. Please don't. It was the first of a semester. I was teaching New Testament. It may have been the first or the second day of class, maybe the second day of class. I remember walking over to the Marb, the Martin building, thinking about the lesson. Our lesson that day was John 1, 1 through 18, 19 verses. Thinking about it, I get there, and as I'm walking back after the class, I thought to

myself, what did we just do? Well, we read and discussed John 1, 1 to 18. We read and discussed the Joseph Smith translation of John 1, 1 to 18. We read section 93, verses 12 through 20, and talked about that in John's record. And we read statements from Orson Pratt, John Taylor, and Bruce R. McConkie stating their belief that John the Beloved had drawn upon the record of John the Baptist. And it hit me that probably in a poor way, but in a way we had sort of expounded all the scriptures in one. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. When the Lord comments on these things and he brings them back in, there's so much to learn. When he says it is the 11th hour, I can go to Matthew 20 and I can learn

that there's a way to dive deep into that verse for a minute. And then I come out. This is the last time I call the laborers in my vineyard. Then I go to Jacob 5 and say, well, what does he mean by that? Right. And I can go study Jacob 5. The Lord, it seems, likes scripture. It seems that he likes scripture.

Anything else? It's, by the way, one of the reasons why the leaders of the church want so desperately for us to become more conversant with them. I mean, what a blessing for a child who says, Mom, I need to talk to you, Mom. I have a problem. For that mom to be able to say, boy, I know what you're

talking about. And to either share personal experience or to say, you know, it reminds me of a scripture that I've always loved. Da-da-da-da-da. Also, in the Book of Mormon, the same thing. I mean, in quiet ways, we can expound the scriptures. That's beautiful. I noticed three times in three verses, open your mouth, verse eight, and it will be filled. Verse nine, open your mouth and spare not. Verse 10. Open your mouths and they shall be filled. Cry repentance.

The Lord seems to say, don't be shy about your message. Yes. Yes. When I went to the MTC, the MTC president was Elder Joe J. Christensen. And our very first meeting, we got in one of those big auditoriums and he read section 33 and he read those three verses the three times in a row. Open your mouth. I never forgot that. And that was the first fireside we had in the MTC. And then he quotes John the Baptist, who is quoting Isaiah, all these scriptural layers here,

repent and prepare you the way of the Lord and make his path straight, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. That is definitely John the Baptist language. You know, one other thing I love about this section, starting in verse 11, it is one of the finest explanations of what the gospel is. Notice, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for remission of your sins. Be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire in the Holy Ghost. Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel. And remember

that they shall have faith in me, or they shall in no wise be saved. And upon this rock I'll build my church. It occurs to me that in Scripture, the Lord defines the gospel in a couple of ways, slightly different. You know, in both the Book of Mormon and in the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord defines the gospel as the atonement, the Savior's atoning sacrifice. But there are other times when he defines the gospel as how we take advantage of that atonement, how we appropriate the atonement. And the answer is through faith, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. And so you get this wonderful discussion. Verse 14, you shall remember the church articles and covenants to keep them. Well, the church articles and covenants were what you and I would know as sections 20 and

22. Many of the missionaries would go out and preach from section, but we have as sections 20 and 22. Notice verse 15, whoso having faith, you shall confirm in my church by the laying on of hands, and get this, I will bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost upon them. There it is. You lay your hands on their head, but I'm going to give them the Holy Ghost. Right. I will do it. That's interesting. It's very 3 Nephi 11, 3 Nephi 27, 2 Nephi 31, repent, baptism.

You know, I've always said, as we read the Book of Mormon, here is the day of days, 3 Nephi 11, the Savior comes. He shows them who he is. They come up and one by one touch his hands, his feet, and he's going to give a sermon. And he talks about faith and repentance and baptism and the Holy Ghost. For that matter, think about what he did, what the Savior did in Joseph F. Smith's vision of the redemption of the dead. Right. Here you have people there, the faithful from days gone by, and the Savior preaches faith, repentance, baptism, Holy Ghost. Do you know what I love about it is that there are so many gospel topics that are so fun

and so interesting. And so we have this phrase, but what are the first principles? And I always make my note to Article of Faith 4 when I see stuff like verse 11 or the doctrine of Christ, 2 Nephi 31. I mean, there's so many, but what are the most important? What are the first principles? Oh, okay. Faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by immersion for the mission of sins. And I told Hank on an earlier podcast that someone had asked me, you've been teaching Book of Mormon how many years? What has stood out to you? And I told him, I think it's how often first principles show up.

Faith in Christ and repentance. And sometimes adding the ordinances. Think about this. 1 Corinthians 15, and sometimes adding the ordinances. Think about this. 1 Corinthians 15, that great chapter on the resurrection. The opening verses gives to us the first principles and ordinances, okay? But the way the Lord speaks about them, he says, I've delivered unto you, first of all, da-da-da-da-da-da. Other translations enter that this way.

I've delivered unto you that which is of first importance. Oh, man. That the Savior died, was buried, rose again the third day, ascended into heaven. You see what I'm saying? That which is of first importance. Yeah, this section I've never noticed before as we're looking at it. This is really a coming together of scripture because you've got him mentioning the 11th hour workers. He's talking about Jacob 5, the laborers in the vineyard.

Here at the end, he mentions the parable of the 10 virgins, right? Have your lamps trimmed and burning. You've got the articles and covenants that he mentions, Doctrine and Covenants section 20. So this really is a, how did you describe it, Bob? All things together in one type section of the Doctrine and Covenants where the Lord really is saying, look, all of this comes together into one message, which is go preach repentance, open your mouth and tell them that the kingdom of heaven is at hand. To two people that didn't last that long, but all of us are getting the benefit of what's taught here. Please join us for part two of this podcast.