followHIM - Doctrine & Covenants 71-75 Part 1 • Dr. Rosalynde Welch • June 30 - July 6 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

What does it mean to give everything to the Lord and then receive it back as a sacred trust? Dr. Rosalynde Welch explores Doctrine and Covenants 71-75, revealing how consecration transforms our hearts, our resources, and our relationships in building Zion.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC227ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC227FRGerman: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC227DEPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC227PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC227ESYOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/0x9_fSGc9GQFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 - Part 1 - Dr. Rosalynde Welch03:15 Episode teaser04:13 Dr. Welch’s bio09:09 Come, Follow Me Manual10:32 Ezra Booth, the Colesville Saints, and building Zion14:21 Scriptures are a place to meet the Lord17:22 We love a checklist19:23 Joseph is multitasking 22:47 Revelations–not a few26:27 Dr. Who and the gospel30:02 Dealing sympathetically with people in history32:19 Ezra Booth’s background37:16 Seeing ourselves in the young prophet41:42 Zion isn’t Disneyland45:27 The Lord’s kingdom is resilient50:39 An exclusive club (and being hit by potatoes)55:35 Defending our beliefs with loved ones56:05 Preaching tour and consecration to begin1:00:04 Consecration is two actions1:06:44 Consecrate property and afflictions1:09:45 Finding purpose in suffering1:17:02 Social poverty1:21:23 - End of Part I - Dr.  Rosalynde WelchThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications DirectorIride Gonzalez: Social Media, Graphic Design"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Coming up in this episode on Follow Him. I think he was disappointed in the reality of what he saw of Zion. He also, I think, was disillusioned with church leaders. He began to realize they were human. They weren't perfect. He saw Joseph get into some disagreements. He saw the elders bickering. They had a very difficult time getting home from Zion with problems on the Missouri River, as you know, this further disillusioned Ezra Booth. Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith, I am your host. I'm here with John, by the way, John, a faithful and wise co-host who in time is accounted worthy to inherit the mansions prepared for him. John, I read that verse, I thought, John, by the way, is mansion in heaven.

If it goes by good works, humility, it's almost going to be as big as my mansion. I'm like, oh yeah, that is John over there in my vacation home. No, John, you are a faithful and wise person. There will be a big BTW right on the mansion of your- I like it. I'm trying to live up to these adjectives, but yeah, BTWs, they call me. I think your mansion will be right on the side of the road. Right, by the way. By the me. I think your mansion will be right on the side of the road. Yeah, right, by the way.

By the way. To somewhere else, yeah. John, we are joined today by Dr. Rosalyn Welch. Rosalyn, welcome to follow him. Thank you, Hank. Thanks, John, I am so excited to be here with you. John, Rosalyn comes highly recommended. She works closely with one of our friends, JB Haas,

Dr. Haas at the Maxwell Institute. John, I don't know if you remember, but I asked J.B., Tell me about Rosalind Welch. Big smile, praise, up and down. We thought we got to have her on. John, Rosalind, we are in sections 71 71-75. The lesson is called, No weapon that is formed against you shall prosper. Now, this one might get overshadowed

because we have a big, beautiful section coming up in Section 76, but I don't wanna get there just yet. I wanna stop and see these. John, I know one of these sections is on Newell K. Whitney being a bishop. He's the second bishop of the church I know you've been bishop. What do you think of when you think of these sections leading up to section 76?

I think a lot of missionary work I think of coming home from a mission and setting a pattern the Lord's gonna use that phrase having a pattern of What a mission life is like and what you're gonna do when you get home. Let this be a pattern. I think of a commission he calls it being changed, trying to do what the Lord wants. Your heart goes out to Newell K. Whitney, you're gonna be a bishop. He's probably, what's that? How do I do that? All of those things I look forward to in here. I wonder if Newark A. Whitney thought, the last bishop you called you sent to Missouri. Yeah, can I stay here?

Yeah, are you going to send me far away? Rosalind, what are we looking forward to today? What do you want to do? Yes, we're going to talk a lot about missionaries and missionary work. We're going to talk about bishops. I'm excited to talk about the principle of consecration, which is not just a principle, it's a covenant. It's a temple covenant. We know consecration as the dedication of our means and our times to the Lord's work. It's also a transformation of our relationship to the Lord and our relationship to ourselves. We can't study this lesson without discussing how Zion is built. We're going to talk about how ordinary people can create relationships of accountability and service by working locally in our own spheres. We work together to build a

global Zion. I'm excited to talk about what I think might be a lesser recognized aspect of Zion consecration, which is the idea of receiving. We think about consecration as giving, but I think there's a really important aspect of receiving that's a part of the consecrated life as well. I want to get into that too. Wow. As I've covenanted to live the law of consecration,

I don't know what's ever crossed my mind to receive. That's a great idea. John, we haven't had Rosalind on the show before. Do you have some background on her? Did we go into the FBI and look for a background check? What do we know? What do we know about this person? I'm so excited that we have you here. Let me introduce Dr. Rosalind Franssen-Welch, is a research fellow, associate director at the Maxwell Institute. I'm going to ask you when I'm done reading this to elaborate on a few of these things.

She has a PhD in early modern English literature from the University of California San Diego and a bachelor's in English from BYU. Her current research focuses on Latter-day Saint Scripture, theology and literature, topics she explores in print and in podcasts, and including on the Maxwell Institute podcast, she hosts that. She's the author of three books and most recently, this is fun, she's a co-author with Adam Miller, who we've had on the podcast. The book is called Seven Visions, Images of Christ in the Doctrine and Covenants. She and her husband

John have four nearly grown children. They love exploring Utah's wild places together. I want to ask you, tell us more about the series you're co-authoring with Adam Miller. This has been such a fun project. These books are books of letters to each other. We choose seven texts from whatever book of Scripture. Our first one was seven Gospels on the Book of Mormon. This most recent one, Seven Visions, is on the Doctrine and Covenants. We choose seven chapters or seven passages that tell us something about Christ. Then we'd simply write letters to each other about those passages, going deep into

the scripture, drawing on our own experience, telling stories from our lives. Adam and I have been friends for almost 20 years now, so our relationship goes way back. We think that they're great books. We hope they're fun to read. They've certainly been a joy to write. Wow. Talking to Adam Miller, he speaks so beautifully and eloquently. So do you. I'm looking forward to this. Can you tell us too a little bit more about the Maxwell Institute?

Yeah, I would love to. The Maxwell Institute is BYU's Research Institute for Religious Scholarship. We're named after Elder Neil A.. Maxwell who was a giant of our people, a true disciple scholar who combined amazing intellect with a burning spirituality and heart for Zion. He is our inspiration. We're a community of about six full-time fellows. We bring in other fellows from around BYU campus. Each of us work from a different discipline. We're interdisciplinary. We have historians and theologians and scholars of ancient languages, literary scholars like me.

What we share in common is that some aspect of our work focuses on the restored gospel. Our director is J.B. Haas, whom you mentioned a moment ago. We're so blessed to have him. Check out our website if you want to, whom you mentioned a moment ago. We're so blessed to have him. Check out our website if you want to, mi.byu.edu. Listeners who are interested can find out all about the resources that we have to offer there. Incredible minds. I'm looking at some of the names here that we've had on the show.

John, we've had Mike McKay, Lincoln Blumel, Adam Miller, JB Haas, Janice Johnson, Tonalyn Ford. We're going to have Dr. Fluman on the show soon. Jennifer Lane, these are some brilliant, wonderful people. I love that I can say that, that I know them, that they are not only brilliant, but they're good to the core. Good, faithful Latter-day Saints. I have the best job.

Yeah. Good job. Well, we are excited to add another scholar to our list here. Rosalind, it might be fun for people who are going Welch. I've heard that name before. Do you wanna elaborate? Yes, I would love to.

I am so blessed as a daughter and as a daughter-in-law. I'm Rosalind Franssen Welch. My parents are Rustin Christy Franssen, wonderful gospel scholars and saints themselves. I want to give a big shout out to my mom Christy Franssen and my sister Naomi. When I got the invitation to appear on this podcast, I asked them to help me prepare. Both of them are amazing teachers and love the scriptures. A lot of the ideas that I shared today were developed in collaboration with my mom, Christy, and my sister Naomi. I'm so thankful to them. My married name is Welch. My father-in-law is John W. Welch,

often known as Jack Welch, who's a legendary Book of Mormon scholar who founded the Farms Organization and has done so much to spur interest, love, and excitement around the Book of Mormon. Oh, wow. You do have a fun job and a fun family. I'll read from the Come Follow Me manual. Let's get started. I love the title today. No weapon that is formed against you shall prosper. Pulling from Isaiah there. Here's the introduction.

Ever since he was a boy, Joseph Smith faced critics, even enemies, as he tried to do God's work. But it must have been particularly difficult in late 1831, when Ezra Booth began publicly berating the Church, because in this case the critic was a former believer. Ezra had seen Joseph use God's power to heal a woman. That was Alice Johnson, I believe. He had been invited to accompany Joseph on the first survey of the land of Zion in Missouri. But he had since lost his faith. And in an attempt to discredit the prophet published a series of letters in an Ohio newspaper. And his efforts seemed to be working because unfriendly feelings had developed against the church in the area.

That's in the heading of section 71. What should believers do in a case like that? While there is not one right answer for every situation, it seems that often, including in this case in 1831, part of the Lord's answer is to declare the truth and correct falsehoods by reclaiming the gospel. Yes, the Lord's work will always have critics, but in the end, no weapon that is formed against it shall prosper." Wow, wonderful. Looks like we're jumping into some very difficult times, probably inside the church with the growth, then coming in from the outside, Ezra Booth coming after Joseph Smith. Rosalind, where do we want to go from here? Do you want to give us a little background? Do you want to jump right in? That's important context with

Ezra Booth. We'll talk more about him here in just a minute. It was a tricky time. It was a tricky moment right here. We're at in December of 1831. Wonderful things are happening. Difficult things are happening. In addition to the Ezra Booth situation, there are two overarching projects that are hovering over Joseph and the young church at this point. One of those is the ongoing project of building Zion through the law of consecration, getting this city that will welcome the Lord back to earth, getting it up and running and all the complications that come along with that. And the other is the project to publish the revelations. The last section, section 70, was all about that. Joseph is involved ongoing in the Joseph Smith Translation Project.

He's got his head and his mind around texts and around cities. You'll remember that a location had been identified for the city of Zion in Jackson County, Missouri, that designated as the center place of Zion. As you mentioned, a group of elders, including Joseph and Ezra Booth, had gone to visit the city of Zion and laid a cornerstone for the temple there. There was a small group of saints living there, the Colesville Saints, the Colesville branch from New York, had had a difficult migration from New York to Ohio on the Copley Farm. Then they were ejected from that. They had made their way down to Zion.

This group of refugees truly had left everything behind. Were now trying to make a life for themselves under the leadership of Bishop Edward Partridge down there in Missouri. They were preparing to welcome what they imagined would be a larger influx of Saints starting pretty soon. The Saints were beginning to understand consecration. They had received the law of consecration in section 42. Little by little, line upon line, the Lord is teaching them more about how this will actually be administered. It's one thing to say we'll care for the poor and needy and everybody will have what they need, but it's another thing to really make that happen, to figure out how to equitably administer

a system like consecration. This practical application is foremost on the minds of the saints there. There were lots of challenges and lots of promises there. During this whole time we know Joseph Smith continued to receive revelations on church government, doctrines of the Restoration. Just the month before in November 1831 church leaders met together and talked about whether or not these revelations should be compiled and published. The Lord made it clear through Joseph that this was very important, that having a written record of the revelations was a crucial preparatory step for the building of Zion. Just one of those things sounds difficult, let alone all of them. Oh, by the way, you

need to build the New Jerusalem. While you're doing that, like, while I'm doing that, that right there is going to be a lot. This Kirtland period was a period of immense revelatory abundance and energy for Joseph. I think one of the reasons why was that the Zion project was up and running, right? The Lord needed to give them a lot of instruction on how to build the city. In addition to that, Joseph is deeply involved in his Bible revision project, his new translation of the Bible. We can see plainly in the Doctrine and Covenants that working deeply in the Bible was a catalyst to Revelation for Joseph. Spending so much time in the text of the Word of the Lord opened his mind to Revelation. What a fantastic principle.

I can hear someone saying, how do I get Revelation? Well, apparently you spend time in the scriptures because he's going through the Bible. Look at this flood of Revelation. Rosalyn, you said it perfectly. He's spending time in scripture, enabling the Lord to answer questions. I love the sequence of these things. The translation of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon

is so full of the doctrine of Christ, the real basics. Then when they started doing the JST, started doing the Bible, all of this stuff came. It was so much more. I love how many sections of the Doctrine and Covenants came as a result of a question. One of the books that I mentioned earlier, these volumes in our Themes in the Doctrine and Covenants series, was written by a scholar named Janice Johnson. She wrote on Revelation, she did a survey. According to her findings, 65% of sections of Revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants came in response to a question. A clear majority. There may be even more. Those are the ones that she was able to identify. Clearly asking good questions, particularly questions that are prompted

by a deep immersion in Scripture. Sometimes even confusion can be good. When you're reading the Scriptures and you get a little confused or you're not sure what's going on, that's not necessarily a bad thing because that can be the moment that prompts you to ask the question. This is precisely the pattern that we'll see. The example par excellence is D&C 76 which you'll be getting to next week but again and again Joseph will see this in section 74 today. He comes across a scripture he doesn't understand it. He doesn't know how it should be interpreted. That is what prompts a question.

He takes that question to the Lord. Then that question becomes a catalyst for a revelation that oftentimes will far exceed the original question. It's one of those well-kept secrets. If you want revelation, you get into the scriptures. It's so hard to connect in our minds. No, I need revelation about this particular problem I'm facing. Yeah, get into the scriptures. It's so hard to connect in our minds. No, I need revelation about this particular problem I'm facing. Yeah, get into the scriptures.

Rosalyn, what you said was so perfect. You start to ask questions, but then the Lord has a tendency to give you more than what you asked for. Yes, the text is a springboard. It's a place that I can go to meet the Lord. I can ask him my questions there. You can answer them on any topic using the medium of the text as a way to open my mind, touch my heart, and to convey ideas to me. I'm gonna have to hurry and write that down.

Scriptures are a place. They're a place where I go to meet the Lord. I feel like we all have a little bit of Love Moses checklist in our DNA. I read my scriptures, check. I said my prayers, check. But that's not the point. The point is the outcome of those. The point is now I've connected to the Spirit. Now the Lord can talk to me better. Was it Elder Lynn Robbins who said we make to-do lists, but it's harder to make a to-be list? What am I trying to become? Doing those things helps us become

something different, puts us in a place, as you just said, where we can get more inspiration, more help. How would it be to think, oh, where could I go to talk to the Lord? I need a place. Rosalind just gave us. It's a place. Yeah. There's a wonderful Catholic scholar of the Bible. Her name is Sandra Schneiders. And she talks about the scriptures as the text of meeting. There's a little wordplay going on there. You remember in the Old Testament, Moses and the Israelites, they built the tent of meeting, the tabernacle where

Moses goes to receive inspiration to see the Lord and to guide his people directly face-to-face encounter with the Lord there in the tent of meeting. She says the scriptures are for us a text of meeting, the place where we go to find the Lord, to have an encounter with him, to have an experience with him, where we come to know who God is. I love that idea, the text of meeting. This is the text of meeting. Certain things are said on this show, John, that I know I'll remember for the rest of my life. That just happened. I know I better write down or I won't remember. happened. I know I better write down or I won't remember. Okay Rosalind with that do you want to jump into the text now? It sounds like Joseph Smith is very busy. Not only is it hard to do the

things he's asked but also then to deal with opposition. Not only do I have to do this very difficult thing I've got multiple people who are trying to ruin it the moment I try to do it. who are trying to ruin it the moment I try to do it. Here in early December 1831, Joseph is juggling a lot. He's really having to multitask. I think the Lord actually says, hang on here, Joseph and Sidney, it's not time to multitask now. You're instructed now to set aside the Bible translation

that you have been working on. Off and on, they've had starts and stops on this project, but here's another pause, because right now you need to focus on preaching the gospel in the nearby areas here in Northeast Ohio, specifically in order to counter the influence of these letters that had recently been published by Ezra Booth. I'm going to talk more about him in just a moment. But he had written and published these letters in a newspaper claiming that the revelations were fabricated, that the law of consecration was just a scheme to take people's money. Joseph and Sidney

really needed to clear the air. For Zion to go forward, for the work to be able to continue, for people to hear the message and bring their lives, their resources and consecrate them to the Lord. People had to be able to encounter missionaries in an environment that was free of falsehood. It was time for Joseph and Sidney to go and preach. The Lord tells them, this is the moment. Set aside the Bible project, go preach. They did.

It was a mission for a season. This mission will last a little over a month. They'll finish up in mid-January of 1832. Let's read a few verses here, shall we, in section 71? Let's read verse one, then verses five and six. John, would you want to read those verses? expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures according to that portion of the Spirit and power which shall be given unto you even as I will. Now behold this is wisdom who so readeth let him understand and receive also for unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly even power." These are such rich verses full of words that are just pregnant with meaning, but there are two of them that especially stick out to me in these verses. Those are the words

receive and mystery. Over the last couple of months we've had some really great discussions on this podcast about a fuller sense of receiving. It's not just a mechanical taking of something that somebody gives to you, but truly to receive is to actively accept, to love and to cherish what is given. I think about the words of a confirmation, receive the Holy Ghost. Here the Lord says, for unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly. What is it that's being received here? What is it that the Lord wants to give us and is asking us to receive? Four years ago when you had

Brad Wilcox on the podcast to talk about these sections, he had a wonderful discussion of these verses as receiving grace. That's a really powerful reading that when we receive the grace that the Lord pours out upon us, we're able to receive even more of it. With it, we receive power. In context of this section, we can also see that what the Lord's talking about is the commandments and revelations. They're in verse 4, prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come. For those who receive the commandments and revelations which are given through Joseph and are being prepared for publication now, unto them will be given more, more commandments, more revelations. I love the

language in section 59. It talks about revelation upon revelation, commandments not a few. The Lord wants to give us more and more revelation and commandments. In order to get more from him, we have to receive what he is giving us. It's interesting, that verse in section 71 verse 6, it might sound familiar, and to him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly even power. If you look at the footnote there, it refers us to Matthew chapter 13, which is this really interesting moment where the disciples ask Jesus why he speaks in parables.

Do you remember the answer that he gives them there, why he speaks in parables? First he quotes the calling of Isaiah, which is so interesting. Yes. The idea that if they can see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understands their hearts, they can be converted and be healed. But it's that conceal-reveal type of a thing. What I love about that is that he gave the parable. I presume some walked away, but then the disciples came up, why are you speaking in parables? So great they came with another question, they got more. They got another answer there, yes. Well done, John, I put you on the spot.

You knew exactly where I was headed with this. Okay. You get an A for today. A parable is a powerful teaching tool because it looks like one thing on the outside but there's something more on the inside. On the outside it looks like the simple story but there's a deeper spiritual meaning about the kingdom of God on the inside. A parable allows the Lord to teach to different audiences as they're ready. For those who are not prepared for the full spiritual meaning, they won't get it. They'll just get the simple

outside story. But for those who receive the message, who are ready for more, there's more, there's another meaning inside the parable. The meaning is always about the kingdom of God, about the kingdom that the Savior has brought and is bringing to us. I wonder if that's part of what the Lord wants Joseph and Sidney to know here. To those who receive something that looks kind of ordinary, more will be given abundantly, even power. Another spiritual meaning. Our eyes of faith will be opened. We'll see past an ordinary looking exterior into something

extraordinary on the inside. We'll see the Lord's work unfolding on the inside. Rosalind, this is gonna be a little bit odd, but my family and I, we watch a little bit of the old Doctor Who series. I don't know if either of you have ever watched the old Doctor Who series. We don't watch much of the new ones. When people meet Doctor Who,

he has this vehicle called a TARDIS. Well, there's this phrase, because the TARDIS on the outside looks like a police little telephone box, something like that. I'm not sure what it is, but you go inside, it's this vast place, machine room with like more and more rooms, more and more rooms. Ross, I love that. That's the parables. That's the Book of Mormon. You look at it and go, oh, there's not much there. And then you go inside and the phrase from Dr. Who is, it's bigger on the inside.

It's amazing. It's bigger on the inside. Thank you. That is brilliant. I do know Dr. Who and I had never thought to make the connection between the Tardis and the parable and the kingdom of God. It's the same principle.

It's bigger on the inside. If you have the faith to receive the sort of ordinary looking outside, then you can enter inside. That's why other people can look at it, Rosalynn, and go, I don't see it. They'll look at the Book of Mormon and go, it's an obvious fraud. And you're going, no, no, no, come inside. Come inside. You can't see this. Yes, exactly. The Lord is able to give us the revelations that we are prepared to accept. But for those who aren't prepared to accept more, they aren't held accountable for it yet, because they haven't received it. Those who can't accept the outside, they're not prepared to accept the inside. In a way it would be unkind to

hold them accountable for the knowledge that they would gain on the inside. It's a way of teaching us stepwise and allowing each individual to come to the kingdom of God to encounter the word of the Lord at the moment when they're ready. Before they're ready, it won't look like anything. It'll look like just nor near nothing that they'll skip over and then they're not accountable for it. But the time will come when the Spirit has prepared them that they'll look at it and they'll see there's something more. They'll see the light bursting from those seams and then they'll be ready to receive it and then they'll be ready to

enter and receive more. I think it can be a very merciful way. Russell, this is a beautiful idea because look how often that comes up. Joseph Smith is someone. Many people look at him and go, he's nothing to me, nothing, even something evil to me. Yet you and I are going, no, no, no, no.

When you're ready, this revelatory prophet, this person, he will open up to you. You will be amazed. The Book of Mormon is the same way. The Pearl of Great Price is the same way, right? John, you've said that before. No matter how we got it, read it. Go inside it. Have you read it?

Have you read it? Whoa, yeah. Well, Roslyn, I love this principle. Read it. Go inside it. Have you read it? Have you read it? Whoa, yeah. Well, Roslyn, I love this principle. I have not been able to talk about our family's love for Doctor Who on the show before. If there's any other Doctor Who fans, they have something to match his Andy Griffith. His odd, odd love of the Andy Griffith show.

John, I might be a Doctor Who guy while you're an Andy Griffith show. John, I might be a Doctor Who guy while you're an Andy Griffith guy. Well, you know Hank, some's got it and some ain't. I had it, had to get rid of it. Oh, Rosalind, I'm so sorry that you have to deal with both of us. Back to you, keep going. Back to you. Well, this idea of Zion as a Tardis, the Book of Mormon as a Tardis, the Restoration as a Tardis, it's the perfect transition now

to talk a little bit more about Ezra Booth, the person that we've alluded to a couple of times through this discussion. I wanna put a caveat out there before I launch into this discussion of Ezra Booth. This is something that I learned from my friend, the historian Kate Holbrook, who passed away several years ago. Many of our listeners may know her and her work. She was a wonderful

historian of the Church of Latter-day Saint Women's history in particular. She taught me something I'll never forget about history, which is that a historian is accountable to deal gently, faithfully, and truly with the reputations of the people that she writes about. I've never seen a historian who takes more care to make sure that she wrote with sensitivity and full understanding and empathy about the subjects of her history.

I'm about to talk about Ezra Booth right now. I'm going to use about Ezra Booth right now. I'm gonna use him as a negative example, but I want to say right up front that I don't know his heart. I don't actually know what motivated him. We do know that his letters were deeply destructive. They were part of what led to the tarring and feathering

of Joseph and Sidney. We know that his actions hurt the church and hurt the saints. But what I don't know is I don't know what his motivations were. I'm grateful that I don't have to judge him. I just wanted to put that out here. As I talk about Ezra Booth, I'm taking some liberties. I acknowledge that.

And I allow the Lord to be his judge. Who knows? Maybe someday I'll get to talk to him and understand better what his intentions were and where he was coming from. Rosalind, we had Kate on the show four years ago. It was such a wonderful experience. It reminds me, what you just said reminds me of what her friend, Dr. Melissa Inouye, once taught another of your friends,

Dr. Donald Ford. We're talking about all your friends here, Rosalind, and ours. Part of redeeming the dead isn't just doing their temple work. It's speaking of them, redeeming their reputations. Thank you for what you just did. We could be more gentle with everyone. Here's a little bit more about who Ezra Booth was. He was a farmer. He was a respected Methodist preacher

in the area of Kirtland where the saints came. That's important that he was a church man. He knew the Bible. He understood the gospel of Jesus Christ. As you mentioned earlier, Hank, Ezra was converted when he witnessed Elsa Johnson's healing. As a preacher, he would have understood what it was that he was seeing. He would have understood that he had seen a miraculous healing. He knows the patterns of the Bible, that spiritual

gifts follow the believers, as Christ said in Mark 18. He would have recognized the project of building Zion as deeply rooted in the patterns of the Bible. He would have recognized the project of building Zion as deeply rooted in the patterns of the Bible. He would have known the Bible inside and out, known that the Bible begins with a garden in Eden, that it ends in the book of Revelation with a garden city, the New Jerusalem. And when he heard of the revelations from the Lord that were directing and guiding the Saints to build the New Jerusalem, he would have understood that this was a religious movement that was following biblical patterns.

That made an impression on him. He said, the impressions of my mind were deep and powerful, and my feelings were excited to a degree to which I had been a stranger. He understood. Because he understood the Bible well, his expectations were very high. He expected to see spectacular fulfillments of these prophecies in the Bible that he had been reading for his whole life. The Book of Revelation, the Book of Isaiah, the New Jerusalem, this shining city of light to which all the riches of the world stream from every corner of the globe. He knew those prophecies. He knew what the Bible said

about the New Jerusalem. The question for him is not a question of understanding, but I think it's a question of receiving, a question of receiving the reality. Remember verse 5 in section 71, now behold this is wisdom, whoso readeth, let him understand, I think Ezra Booth understood, but and receive also. Would Ezra be able to also receive in the spiritual sense to accept and to cherish and to treasure the reality of the Zion project for the Saints? That was the spiritual question before Ezra Booth. He was appointed to serve a mission to Missouri with Isaac Morley. He was there with Joseph and the other elders at the church conference that was held on

August 4th in 1831. It was on this journey to Zion that Booth began to be disillusioned, disappointed in what reality was showing him, in the reality of the fulfillment of these prophecies. It was a difficult journey, it was very inconvenient. I lived for almost 20 years in Missouri. It's the most beautiful place in the world, I'm convinced, but it is hot. It is humid. And there are insects. It is not a fun place to be journeying and camping in August. When they arrived in this incipient city of Zion, he says the prospect appeared somewhat gloomy. A curiosity, but not worth going to Missouri to see, he wrote later. There were a few Saints there. It wasn't the streams of people coming that

he might have expected. There was little development, just a few backwoods buildings. It was not the city of golden streets and trees, the garden city that he knew from Revelation. It was pretty disappointing. I think he was disappointed in the reality of what he saw of Zion. He also, I think, was disillusioned with church leaders. He began to realize they were human. They weren't perfect. He saw Joseph get into some disagreements.

He saw the elders bickering. They had a very difficult time getting home from Zion with problems on the Missouri River, as you know. This further disillusioned Ezra Booth. He had understood, but he wasn't able to receive the reality of the gift that the Lord was giving him. Shortly after he returned home he turned away from the Saints and that's when he began publishing his series of nine letters in the Ohio Star criticizing Joseph Smith

in the church. He brought his strong reasons to use the phrase of Isaiah against the church. As we'll see those letters, they did do a lot of damage in time. Rosalind, you said we might see ourselves in him and I'm already seeing myself. I've seen some amazing things. Then I run into the reality of people and humanness, the messiness of,

you got a 20, what, 25 year old prophet. He sometimes acts like a 25 year old human. What do I do with both the miraculous and the human? Don't we all run into that, John? Rosalind, don't we all run into the, I've experienced the miraculous, I've experienced the human. What do I do with both of those? I remember hearing a story about Stephen Covey where he was given some assignment to work with some of the highest leaders of the church or something like that. Somebody said to him, well, you'll find out they're just human. don't lose your testimony. He had the best response to that. He said, they didn't give me my testimony and they can't take it away.

Yeah, our focus is on Christ. We will see the evidences of his working through us, through we imperfect humans all the time. The question that confronted Ezra Booth and Zion I think is the question that confronts every single one of us each day at church of course. Can I receive, can I both understand and also receive with love the sometimes disappointing reality of worshipping with other humans, of working with them, of having these high ideals, then bringing them down to earth,

implementing them in real life. It's hard. It's hard in our families too. Maybe I get married and I go into marriage expecting a romantic vision and ideal of my perfect soulmate who will be able to intuit my needs at every moment in time. It's disappointing when my husband is actually a human being. He can't read my mind. He doesn't

always say exactly what I need to hear. He doesn't clean up the kitchen the way that I wish that he would. It's disappointing. It can be disillusioning. The question that faces me is, will I receive him? Will I receive the gift of marriage? It's only if I can, right? Only if I can accept the TARDIS that I can enter inside. Once I pass that step of accepting, cherishing, loving, looking at with the eyes of faith, the very ordinary reality in front of me, that's when the insides open up to me. That's when I see the bigness, the largeness, the beauty that's on the inside of these everyday relationships, these everyday projects, these everyday problems that we all face on a regular basis. This is fantastic. That to me is right there. 2025 applicable to everyone. You will experience the miraculous and the divine and the human.

What are you going to do with those? Because there's Isaac Morley and Edward Partridge who embrace, who receive, reason or another cannot enter in, cannot receive because of maybe the humanity of the people around us. John, you've said this before, God wants us to love our enemies, so he puts them in our ward. Did I say that? Yeah, you said so many enemies, one convenient location. Yeah. Yes, yes. Maybe some others had this

problem. When I was a teenager, I read things, especially in section 76, these are they that received not the gospel of Christ. I thought that's not fair because my definition of received was heard. You said it earlier Rosalyn, I'm grateful for that, that in the scriptures receive means accept. That you, like a wedding reception, you receive guests. So we call it a reception. You're receiving the gospel. These are they who receive, not the gospel means these are they who chose not to receive not to accept. Let's go back to that verse. Let him understand and receive also.

There's also an element of forgiveness that's involved with receiving. We accept it, we cherish it, we forgive it for not being what we might have expected. Could Ezra Booth have forgiven this little struggling seed of Zion for not being Disneyland? Hank, you mentioned that this is applicable in 2025. Maybe it's more applicable than it has ever been in 2025 because I feel like we're on the cusp of real technological revolution.

We don't know what these new artificial intelligence tools will bring us, but they're powerful. It seems at the least they'll be able to deliver to us a kind of experience that is more frictionless, more tailored to my expectations, more perfectly meets my fantasies, that's beautifully colorful, that's slick, palatable in every way. By comparison, our everyday experience may come to seem more and more difficult, more

effortful, less exciting, more boring, smaller and drearier, yet redemptive relations can only happen there. It's only in the real embodied world that we can administer and receive saving ordinances, that we can be in saving sealed relationships. It's only if we can accept, forgive, and receive the real world that we can develop our divine natures and come unto Christ. All three of us work with young people. The expectation of what marriage is going to be, marriage and children, what it's going to be versus its reality can be a gut check for them. Same for missions. Do you remember thinking, I know

what a mission is going to be, then you got there and thought, this wasn't on the call to serve video. Yes, we are all Ezra Booth. The choice that confronted him is the choice that confronts us urgently today. Perfect. This is a good moment to talk a little bit about the end of section 71 where the Lord instructs Joseph and Sidney on how they should respond to these attacks on the church, the letters by Ezra Booth. I don't know about you, but I hear in these verses, I'm looking at verses 7 through 11 or so, maybe it's worth just reading a little bit of that.

Wherefore confound your enemies, call upon them to meet you both in public and in private. Inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest. Let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord. Verily thus sayeth the Lord unto you there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper and if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in my known due time wherefore keep my commandments they are true and faithful even so amen I hear a mood of confidence of openness of courage not of fearfulness not of defensiveness not of aggression there's definitely urgency preparation is needed now is the moment when they need to act not of fearfulness, not of defensiveness, not of aggression. There's definitely

urgency. Preparation is needed. Now is the moment when they need to act. But there's a way in which antagonism to the church creates something good. And what it creates is an opportunity for moral choice. Those who encounter these slanders and falsehoods by Ezra Booth now have a moment of decision where they can decide How they are going to act Joseph and Sydney to have a moment of decision How are they going to respond the Lord tells them don't fear engagement with your enemies in public or in private in fact Sydney Rigdon did invite Ezra Booth to a public debate as your booth declined Sidney Rigdon did invite Ezra Booth to a public debate. Ezra Booth declined.

Maybe in private would have been more effective. Talk to him in the way that we've just been talking about, his experience in Zion. But don't fear. Trust that the Lord's work is resilient, that the Lord's kingdom is reliable. It's not fragile. The Lord's enemies will be confounded in due time.

That word confound is interesting to me because always the Lord urges us not to engage in contention but here he tells Sidney and Joseph that they are to confound their enemy. I wondered what that word confound was. I looked it up. To confound is to perplex, to point out the confusions or the contradictions in somebody's claim or somebody's idea versus contention. And in the Book of Mormon we see that contention is violent, it's oppositional. So I think this teaches us something valuable, which is that conflict and friction are unavoidable in the real world as we've just been talking about. Reality is going to confront us every day with somebody who does not agree with us,

somebody who sees things differently. Darn it, they're so wrong. But nevertheless, they persist in being wrong and seeing things differently from me. Conflict and friction are unavoidable, but the question is how do I work through that conflict in Christ's way? We're not to engage in contention, but there may be a way in which we can confound them, that is gently and kindly, but pointing out points of confusion or points of contradiction in their own claims, helping them sort of see the flaws in their strong reasons. I really liked how the Come Follow Me manual asked us to consider how Christ responded to his antagonists. In the New

Testament we see him, he didn't fear conflict, he didn't fear engagement with those who opposed him. He asked, in fact, he did precisely what he instructs Sydney and Joseph to do. He confounded them by asking strategic questions to expose their motivations and to show contradictions in the deep logic of what they were saying. Ultimately, of course, the way that Christ responded to his enemies was with forgiveness on the cross. He forgave his enemies. He loved his enemies. He loved his enemies. He loved them truly. He loved them more truly than any person ever has. And this question of

how Christ responds to his enemies becomes very personal when I remember that the natural man is an enemy to God, but that Christ loves his enemies. Christ forgives his enemies. He loves me and he forgives me even when I put myself in the role of an antagonist to him and to his work. If you'll indulge me, the Maxwell Institute a few years ago published a wonderful book called Proclaim Peace by Patrick Mason and David Pulsifer. It's all about peace building. It really responds to President Nelson's plea for us to become peacemakers.

Peacemakers needed. This book responds to that prophetic call. Here's what they say, conflict is inevitable and inherent in the opposition that's at the heart of creation. There must needs be an opposition in all things. There's going to be conflict in the world. But here's what Patrick and David say. When our decisions in conflict tend toward love, forgiveness, and selflessness, the cycle

is more likely to move in the direction of the creative conflict that Martin Luther King described as the constructive nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. But when we are primarily motivated by fear, anger, or selfishness, the conflict is more likely to move in destructive directions. When trapped in a destructive spiral, we use the negative choices of our opponents, whether real or perceived, to justify our own behavior. But creative options are always open to us, regardless of the choices others are making. Just because

our opponents may be choosing a path that leads to destructive engagement does not mean we are constrained to respond in kind. Conflict is inevitable, but destructive conflict is a choice. At times we might actually be justified in responding to violence with violence, but such responses will ultimately never heal or transform our conflicts into opportunities for creative growth. Only love can do that. That's so wise. Conflict is inevitable, but creative responses to

that conflict are always open to us. And if those who oppose us go negative, we're going to be tempted to follow suit. Say, well hey, I need to respond to them. I have to do something about this, but it's not justified. Christ showed us how to respond in a Christ-like way by choosing creative and constructive, ultimately loving responses to the conflict that is inevitable. That's the message that I see here at the end of section 71 as well. Do either of you remember this story from Elder Holland? He said, a sister missionary recently wrote to me, this is back in 2014. My companion and I saw a man sitting on a bench in the town square eating his lunch.

As we drew near, he looked up and saw our missionary name tags. With a terrible look in his eye, he jumped up and raised his hand to hit me. I ducked just in time only to have him spit his food all over me and start swearing the most horrible things at us. We walked away saying nothing. I tried to wipe the food off my face only to feel a clump of mashed potato hit me in the back of the head. My word. Sometimes it's hard being a missionary because right then I wanted to go back, grab that little man, and say, excuse me, but I didn't. And then Elder Holland says, to this devoted missionary, I say, dear child, you have in

your own humble way stepped into a circle of very distinguished men and women who have, as the Book of Mormon prophet Jacob said, viewed Christ's death and suffered his cross and borne the shame of the world. Elder Holland goes on to say, how do we defend our faith? I bet both of you remember this quote from him. He said, be strong, live the gospel faithfully, even if others around you don't live it at all. Defend your beliefs with courtesy and with compassion, but defend them.

Reminded me so much of what you just said Roslyn. Don't go negative. I noticed in this section the Lord doesn't attack anyone by name. He doesn't say, now that Ezra Booth, he is terrible. You need to go and tell everybody about him and how terrible he is. It's proclaim the gospel, be courageous, have discussions. I'll make sure that you're okay. No weapon that is formed against you will prosper. What a recipe. Enemies of the church do bring strong reasons.

I don't think they're strong, I think they're weak. But they can be wielded strongly. Donna and Hank, I would love to share a few of my strong reasons, of the strong reasons that I have for my faith and my belief in the Restoration. My strongest reason for faith and commitment in the Restoration and for consecration to the Kingdom of God is the Book of Mormon. It's message of revelation. It's message that the Lord is overflowing with light and that he wants to shower that light down on each one of us. The Lord manifests himself to every nation. He invites each one of us to come to him to be one in him. For me the Book of Mormon is the strongest reason

that I have for my commitment to the gospel. The vision of Zion, the beautiful vision of Zion, of a covenant-bound community of one heart and one mind that lives together in love, that takes care of every need. That is also one of the strong reasons that is at the heart of my testimony. I'm inspired by that vision of Zion that keeps me moving forward on the covenant path. Finally the restorations vision of exaltation. It's the understanding it gives us that we are made in the image of God, that our Savior grew from grace to grace, grew in the fullness, that we follow his footsteps, that we too are made in the divine image, that we are image bearers of God, that Christ can

be within us, that Christ can be among us. That is such an inspiring vision that I haven't found matched in any other religious tradition, which I deeply respect. I feel a deep kinship with any person of faith out there. I think we share more in common than we have different. But nevertheless, these are strong reasons that I find only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

And that's why the Church is my spiritual home and why it always will be. I loved that testimony. That was awesome. Rosalind, that was perfect. And I think you did exactly there what the Lord would say. Let them bring their strong reasons. You bring your strong reasons.

You talk slowly and deliberately and powerfully. Don't attack. Don't let your emotions take over. Bring your strong reasons. Doesn't it remind you, John, of the blind man in John chapter 9? Whether he be a sinner or not, I know not. Here is what I know. I was blind. Now I see. Rosalyn just gave us her own. Now I see. Yes. The way she delivered that reminds me you could win an argument and lose the relationship. I hope anybody listening who thought, how do I defend my beliefs against these attacks even within my own family? Why don't you go back, listen to that again and again. Here's what I know.

Yeah, here's what I know. Rosalyn, I am now seeing section 71 as a TARDIS. You have turned these 11 verses inside out and made them so much bigger on the inside. We do need to keep going. What do you wanna do next? We just go to section 72? Yeah, let's move on to keep going. What do you want to do next? We just go to section 72? Yeah, let's move on to section 72.

In section 71, as we saw, the Lord told Sidney and Joseph, it's time, now is the moment, it's time to set aside the Bible translation and go on a preaching tour. So they did. They obeyed. Three days later, they were in Kirtland, which was their first stop. There they had a conference of elders in this Revelation, section 72. They receive more light and knowledge about Zion, about building Zion and about implementing consecration. Over the last couple of months we've seen how the Revelations have slowly

taught the saints about consecration. We all remember section 42, which is the Lord's law, where he lays out what this way of life will look like. Sections 51, instructions to Edward Partridge on stewardship and the Bishop's storehouse. Section 68 was all about obtaining land in Zion, how to have an orderly migration and flow of saints there. Now here in section 72, it's time for a second bishop to be called because we're now a church with two centers. We have a center in Kirtland, a center in Independence. We need a second bishop. We need a bishop in Kirtland. We're gonna find out who that bishop

will be, find out what his duties are. We'll learn a little bit about how accountability and consecration work together. This section, section 72, is actually a compilation of three different revelations to the elders and members who were assembled there with Joseph and Sidney on this day. Part one, more or less verses one through eight, talks about the importance of a bishop to whom each steward can render an account of his stewardship. A bishop is needed there to be a face for accountability so that we can account to the Lord how we are using our stewardship. In part one he names who this new bishop will be. It is Newell Whitney, whom we have met, whom we love. We recognize as a wise and faithful man

with a strong testimony of the gospel and a love for Joseph, the keeper of the store in Kirtland, which will become now a storehouse for the Saints. Then in verses 9 through 23, Newell's bishop's duties are laid out to keep the storehouse, to receive and distribute the consecrated properties so that all the needs of the saints can be met. The elders who are out preaching and those who are working on publishing the revelations, they're all a part of this story of consecration. And then finally, the ending, those last verses, verses 24 through 26, helps the saints understand how the migration from Kirtland to Zion can be done in an orderly way.

As we've talked about, Zion was just a seed at this point, the tiny fledgling little settlement, and it would be overwhelmed by the needs of huge congregations of saints flocked there. It needs to happen in a slow and orderly fashion. The Lord teaches them how that is to occur. That's sort of from a bird's eye view what we've got here in section 72. For me, above all, what stands out from this section is its teachings on consecration. I love the principle of consecration.

I've really come to understand it in a richer way over the past few years, largely as the result of reading the work of two scholars who I know you've had on the podcast before, Steve Harper and Joseph Spencer. Each of them has thought deeply about consecration as an historical practice in Steve's case and as a theological concept in Joe's case. I've learned a lot from both of them and if it's okay I'd love to share with you how I understand what consecration is before we dive into the specifics of these verses. Consecration as I understand it is a series of two actions.

The first action is that we lay down our property, all that we have in our, before the Lord. We lay it at the bishop's feet. That's step one. Then step two is we take consecrated property up again as our stewardship. There's a giving of all that we are and have. There's a receiving of those things as a stewardship. Where I started, I had property. I had things that I owned. I had things that were mine, that I possessed. I laid them down. When I take them up again, when I receive my stewardship, they're no longer what they were. They're no longer possessions or property. Now I hold them not as an owner, but as a steward. What kind of blew my mind was when Dr. Harper helped me understand

that often it would be the very same things. Let's say that I'm a saint and I want to consecrate. I'm ready to live the law of consecration. I have some tables, chairs, some bedroom furniture, and I bring them to the bishop's storehouse and I consecrate them. I deed them to the church. I laid them before the Lord, before the bishop. He receives those as my consecrated offering. Then I have to go back home but guess what? I still need a table and chairs and I still need a bed to sleep on. I'm still gonna to need these things, those very same items will now be given back to me by the bishop, but instead of holding them as a possession, as something that I own and can do with

whatever I want, now I hold them as a stewardship. I'm taking care of them. They belong to the Lord, but I am taking care of them and I'm using them not only for my own good and my own needs, but for the good of my entire community, for the good of Zion. It's the same table and chairs, it's the same bed, it's the same household, the same furnishings, but everything has changed. My relationship to those objects has 100% transformed. Who I am has also changed. I am no longer a sovereign owner who's in charge of all these things and can dispose of them how I want to.

Instead, I'm a caretaker. I'm taking care of something precious that belongs to somebody else. I was trying to explain this to my son. We were talking about this recently. He's a teenager. I was trying to think of a way that I could explain to him what this change means, how it feels to be a steward instead of an owner. I gave him this thought experiment. He has a cousin Jacob who has a really, really cool car. It's like a tricked out Acura. He's put all this cool under glow lighting on the bottom.

It's beautiful. It's just the coolest car ever. Miles, my son, has an old broken down Honda Fit. It's a junky, a junky little car. I said, imagine that Jacob is going on his mission. Your cousin is going on his mission, your cousin is going on his mission, he needs someone to take care of his car while he's gone. He came to you, Miles, and he said,

Miles, would you take care of my car? You can have it, you can use it while I'm on my mission, but I want someone to be in charge of it and to watch over it, to take account of it while I'm gone. Would you be willing to do that? Miles was like, absolutely. I would much rather drive that cool car than my old car. I asked him, how do you think you would treat Jacob's car differently from your own

car? Would it feel different to drive that car? How would you deal with it differently? He thought about it for a minute and he said, well, I think I would be a lot more careful with it. Because Jacob's going to come back from his mission and this car actually isn't mine. So I want to be accountable to Jacob and make sure that I take good care of his car. Probably even more than I would with my own car. Because I'm not really accountable to anybody else for my own possessions. But when I'm accountable to somebody else for their possessions I'm gonna take really good care of it." I said,

what if while you were taking care of Jacob's car one of our other cousins had need of a car and they came to you and said, oh hey could I use Jacob's car for a little while? How do you think you would respond to that? He said, well I probably feel like I have to lend it to them because it's not really my car. I know Jacob, if he lent it to me, he'd also want me to lend it to the other cousin. I'd make sure that they are careful with it, but I'd probably feel like I needed to use it for the good of the whole family because it's not just my car. It's the family's

car that Jacob is letting us use, so I'd probably be more generous with it. I had him think about all these ways that our relationship to an object changes when we think of it not as our possession, but as our stewardship. We're more careful. We take better care of it.

We're more careful. We take better care of it. We're more generous with it. Maybe most importantly, we think of ourselves differently. Instead of thinking, I'm this awesome guy and I have this awesome car and this awesome car makes me better than that guy over there who has a stupid car. We can't think of ourselves that way, right? Because I'm not the owner of that car. I'm taking care of it. It levels us and it encourages us not to identify with our possessions in a way that would make us prideful or that would make us feel like we're better than somebody else because we have more than them. In this way, I see consecration as not only an economic order, but maybe even primarily

a spiritual order. It's a way to live together in love and mutuality and equality. And the way that we relate to our possessions and use them for the good of the community is important, but that's only one part of it. What really matters is how I understand myself in relationship to my brothers and sisters, to my Lord. Maybe that's why Lehi says to Jacob in 2 Nephi 2 that we can consecrate our afflictions as well. We don't just consecrate property, but we consecrate our afflictions as well. We don't just consecrate property but we consecrate our afflictions. I imagined what if I walked into new old Whitney

store and I said, Brother Whitney I'm here to consecrate. I'm gonna give you all my heartaches, all my afflictions. I'm here to consecrate those. Well he might look at me like I'm a little strange and wonder what I'm doing but I think if he gave it another moment of thought he might understand what I'm getting at. That we can consecrate our afflictions when we lay them down. We no longer identify with them as something that defines me or something that sets me apart, but instead I take up those same afflictions, those same problems and challenges. But now as a steward, I think about how is it that these afflictions and these challenges,

these struggles that I'm going through, is it possible that they could bless my community? Is there any way that I could use these and hold these as a stewardship and a gift that can build Zion? There is. Maybe from those struggles I can learn empathy. I can learn mercy. I can learn understanding and love that I can then offer to my brothers and sisters and can use to build up Zion in my ward. There really may be ways that we can consecrate our afflictions, just as I would consecrate my property. And it's all because ultimately consecration is a spiritual practice. It's a spiritual covenant and it

fundamentally changes who I am, how I relate to other people. I was sitting here trying to think of a synonym for a steward. You said it, a caretaker. I like that a lot, that I'm taking care of it. I don't own it anymore. I love what you talked about identifying with your possessions. The Lord's moving us closer to what did Alma say to Corianton? Behold, you cannot carry them with you.

They're not really yours. The earth is the Lord's, the fullness thereof. There will come a time when if we're defined by our possessions, we'll lose them all. I remember somebody saying, the only things you can really take with you are your character, your intelligence, and your relationships. I would include, of course, testimony testimony in there Why do we work so hard for things we can't take with us? Sometimes at the expense of those we can which is a great question Yes Where your treasure is there will your heart be also where we identify? That's where we're gonna put our energy and if we identify as owners and possessors of property, that's where we're going to put

our energy. Those things can't come with us. Instead, if we identify as a caretaker and a steward for Zion, that builds relationships, that builds character, that builds a relationship with God above all that will come with me and can come with me. Rosalind as you and I were discussing getting ready for the podcast for your episode we talked about helping those who are hurting. We have listeners all over the world who we adore and we think about it all the time. How can we share something? What can we share?

What can we do to alleviate someone's pain? What you just shared about being a steward over your own trials and saying how can these benefit my community? You both have read Victor Frankl, A Man's Search for Meaning. There he is in the concentration camp suffering. I think as much as any human being could suffer, having been taken from his family and the way they're treated. Then he said that I had to find meaning in my suffering. I had to find purpose in my suffering. And he wrote this. He said, Suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds meaning.

So many we suffer, it's not necessarily the suffering that's so painful, it's the idea of, is this needless? Is this doing anything for me? Rosalind, what you just taught is, it would be odd to go to the bishop's storehouse and say, here's all my suffering. But when someone testifies in a fast and testimony meeting, you know they've suffered. It's almost that consecration, isn't it? That they're handing over the lessons from that suffering, the testimony and the faith from that suffering to all of us. Yeah, I've been on both sides of that.

When I've been the one who's suffering, it had made all the difference to think something beautiful can come from this. I can serve somebody. I can touch somebody, I can help somebody. Something useful and beautiful can come from this experience that feels like ashes, tastes like ashes in my mouth. And on the other side, when somebody comes to me with the openness and vulnerability and willingness to share what they're going through,

it makes me feel so supported. It makes me feel trusted. I know that when the next problem comes around the bend in my own life, they're a safe person that I can go to. I know they'll receive me and they'll receive my suffering. I appreciate it and I treasure it. I receive it the way that we've been talking about. I receive it when somebody comes to me, shares with me their afflictions. It's so empowering because it shows us that everybody has something to consecrate. In section 72 as the Saints are learning bit by bit about what consecration will look like and how it'll work, the Lord really emphasizes

here that consecration is about generosity, it's about responsibility, and it's about mutual flourishing of all of us. I'd love to look at a few verses here, maybe verses 10, 11, and 12 in section 72. So this is the bishop's duty to keep the Lord's storehouse, to receive the funds of the church in this part of the vineyard, to take an account of the elders as before has been commanded, and to administer to their wants who shall pay for that which they receive." There's that word again. Receive, receiving as a part of consecration. Inasmuch as they have wherewith to pay, that this also may

be consecrated to the good of the church, to the poor and the needy. The Lord is explaining to them here, everybody has something to give, everybody has something to receive. I used to serve in my ward as the compassionate service leader, that dates me because I'm not sure that's even a calling that exists anymore in the Relief Society. But back in the day the compassionate service leader was the person who kind of coordinated all of the service that the Relief Society would give. Made sure that people were getting meals when they needed them and kind of coordinated the sign-up. In some ways it could be seen as

a purely administrative calling. A lot of making logistical arrangements and making sure that things happened at the right time and in the right way. But I had a friend, Sister Orgill, Marsha Orgill, who taught me something that I will never forget. After I had done a couple of these emails where I sent out a sign-up sheet saying, please sign up for meals or please sign up for babysitting or please come to this service project. She very kindly took me aside. She said I have a suggestion for you. I wonder what would happen if you acknowledged on every email or communication that you send out that everybody can serve in some way. Because we have sisters who aren't going to be able to give a meal.

We have sisters who aren't going to be able to babysit somebody's kids. They can't come to the service project. Whether they have limited means or limited energy or health problems, they might not be able to serve in those typical ways. I wonder if they'll feel left out that they can't serve, right? I feel like they're not needed, not really a part of the relief society. What if you included on every plea for service, something like, we acknowledge and remember that a prayer, a smile, and a kind word are precious acts of service that strengthen us as a community and as the Relief Society. That moved me so much. I really for the first time thought about how would it feel if I were a part of the Relief Society and yet I couldn't

participate in any of these service projects. I felt like I had nothing to give. From that time forward I always try to acknowledge that we all have something that we can consecrate. Maybe it's you're a prayer warrior. You can send up the most powerful prayers for the sisters in our Relief Society who need it. Maybe you can give a smile. Maybe you can write a note. These are all valued necessary and crucial forms of consecration and no less important than the kind of acts of physical service that some of us can give. If you are a person who is able to give of your means, who is able to give of your time and your physical energy,

then by all means we need that as well. But everybody has something that they can consecrate. I love that you are equating this with the bishop's storehouse because I believe that the bishop's storehouse is not limited to cans of Deseret brand peaches, but it's all the talents of the whole war family, things that they can do. You just talked about there's people who might have a gift of listening or a gift of writing a thank you card who might not be able to move the barbells out of your basement, but they might be so good at some of those other things. I love to think of the Bishop's storehouse as all the time and talents of everybody in the ward that can be used. It's not just a place, it's the aggregation of all the gifts and experiences that all of the members of our ward have had that

can bless others. Exactly. Just like there are many ways to give, there are also many forms of poverty, many forms of need. Of course, material poverty is a pressing one. I think we have a special obligation in Zion to attend to the poor and needy. There are other kinds of poverty. There's a kind of social poverty. Somebody who doesn't have many friends or many connections or many resources in this world that we live in now that's increasingly disconnected and digitized, more and more people are experiencing forms of social poverty where what they really need is a friend. The Book of Mormon talks about

educational poverty, educational inequality. This was something that my friend Daniel Becerra pointed out to me I had never noticed in 3rd Nephi chapter 6 but as the Nephites are on their final descent towards the calamities that will that will strike them and it says that people began to be distinguished by their ranks according to their chances for learning. Some were ignorant because of their poverty, others did receive great learning because of their riches. There's educational poverty, there are many different kinds of poverty, there are many different kinds of resources that can be consecrated to meet those needs. Maybe a wise Relief Society president knows of a sister who has just experienced a miscarriage. A miscarriage

is a very difficult kind of loss because it's not visible sometimes. It's so personal. But maybe she knows of another sister in the ward who recently experienced the same kind of loss. Maybe she can wisely put that form of spiritual poverty and that form of spiritual consecration together. The sister with the experience can minister and meet the needs of the sister who's hurting. Just as you say, John, the bishop's storehouse that our Relief Society presidents also valiantly draw from

is much bigger than a place, than a grocery store, than tithing, fast offering funds. It incorporates everything that we have to give, including the hardest things. Coming up in part two of this episode. I have a good sense for how much a book can tell me whether it will be worth it to go back to it. I have those books that I want to go back to again because I know there's going to be something more there. Then there are those that you read once and it's great and you move on from there.

The Book of Mormon is a book that has never failed me. More than any other text that I have ever encountered or spent time in, the Book of Mormon gives back.