followHIM - Doctrine & Covenants 89-92 Part 1 • Sister Karen Hepworth • Aug 18-24 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Is the Word of Wisdom more than a health code? Karen Hepworth explores its history, purpose, and promised blessings in Doctrine and Covenants 89-92.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC234ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC234FRGerman: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC234DEPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC234PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC234ESYOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/lWT8GlQDYAcALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookBook of Mormon: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastBMBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 Part 1 - Sister Karen Hepworth01:20 Episode teaser2:01 Karen Hepworth’s bio04:24 Come, Follow Me Manual05:37 Big picture before landing the plane09:41 FOOLS!12:29 NIH report on smoking15:40 Wine to water16:50 E-cigarettes, green/black tea, and tobacco prohibition20:47 Conspiring men (and women)24:22 What is a “hot drink?”28:11 Hot drinks, caffeine, chocolate, and coffee questions30:52 Holiness not health34:01 Keeping an eye on our neighbors36:44 The joy in Section 8939:56 God provides to enliven our souls43:20 Cherries, machetes, and tropical fruit44:58 An unusual gift of the Spirit47:23 Meat, waste, and frontier habits52:35 No place for guilt about choices54:49 Gospel Library App and Life Help Topics56:43 Food vs ingredients by young Brother Smith59:38 End of Part I - Sister Karen HepworthThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications DirectorIride Gonzalez: Social Media, Graphic Design"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Coming up in this episode on Follow Him. The prohibitives are three. The what we should do are innumerable. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host. I'm here with my co-host, John, by the way, who runs and is not weary?

Who walks and does not fate? John, that's true. You can't see it, but I'm actually on. on a treadmill underneath this desk at a full sprint. Yeah, I'm going. Yeah. This is going to be a fun day, John. You know that saying.

It's from Section 89. Verse 20, you shall run and not be weary. You shall walk and not faint. John, we're joined today by sister Karen Hepworth, a longtime teacher in church education. Karen, welcome to follow him. Thanks for the invitation. You got it. John, Karen comes highly recommended by

multiple guests that we've had on the show. She was hard to pin down, but I finally found her and got her here. John, when you think Word of Wisdom, tell me what comes to mind automatically. You've taught this your whole career. I used to think health code. Now I think more. Keep your agency. I'm just eager to learn from Karen today. I am too, John. Karen, as you've prepped for these few sections, what do you want to do today? Where do you want to go? Most excited about the Doctrine and Covenant section 89, talking about the word of wisdom. We'll touch on section 90 as well, the continuing establishment of the first presidency. We could spend a few hours in the apocrypha if you'd like to read some verses there. Then we'll touch really lightly.

Frederick G. Williams joins the United Order. We'd love to spend the bulk of our time in section 89. Awesome. Sometimes I think with sections like 80, we think we know what's in it. You would say, oh, yeah, I know the Word of Wisdom. I've read that. All of a sudden, you start to dig into the details. Maybe I didn't know exactly what was there. It's something that we talk about so commonly,

but I wonder if we actually get into the text very often. Now, John, I told you that Karen comes highly recommended, but there may be some people out there that think, why is she so highly recommended? Why don't you give us a little bit of a background? She avoids telling us details about her life. It's hard to know whether she's serious or not. From retired NFL cheerleader to related to bodybuilders.

She's got a story for everything. John, what do we know for sure? Okay, this is what we know for sure. Karen Hepworth has spent her professional career immersed in the inspired world of seminaries and institutes. She says she's a proud S&I lifer. She was chosen as a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. No, it says she loves the Chosen and Dallas Jenkins cheerily. Oh, okay.

Actually, I do love the Chosen. She's taught at Pleasant Grove and Orham Seminaries, as well as BYU and the Utah Valley Institute. She currently works as a project manager for institute curriculum and serves as a member of the correlation materials evaluation committee for the church, which means she knows her. stuff. Wow. Yeah. She's going to be able to say, oh, that's not true to you and I. Karen, what else do we need to know about Karen Hepworth? That's perfect. That's pretty much it. I love the scriptures. I love the prophets. I love the Word of God. That's me. Very simple. So I'm so grateful for the invitation. One thing I wanted to ask you is, how many children are? How many children are are in your family?

I have 10 siblings. I have nine brothers. That's the part. Nine brothers. Those that know me, you know my personality because I have nine brothers. Always having to defend myself. I'm a tease. I can take it, but I give it out more than I take.

You have to. That's a defensive mechanism in a house with nine. brothers. Well, let's get going here. Section 89 through 92, a principal with a promise. Here's the opening of the Come Follow Me Manual. In the school of the prophets, the prophet Joseph Smith taught the elders of Israel about building God's kingdom on earth. They discussed spiritual truths, prayed together, fasted, and prepared to preach the gospel. But there was something about the atmosphere that might seem odd to us today. And it didn't seem right to Emma Smith. either. During the meetings, the men smoked and chewed tobacco, which wasn't unusual for the

time, but it stained the wood floor's black and left a strong odor in the air. Emma shared her concerns with Joseph, and Joseph asked the Lord. His response was a revelation that went far beyond smoke and tobacco stains. It gave the saints for generations to come a principle with a promise, promises of physical health, wisdom, and great treasures of knowledge. Those all sound like things that I would like more of. Physical health, wisdom, and great treasures of knowledge. Karen, how do you want to start this off? How about we start really high level?

Let's go big picture, so we have a place to land before we even dive in. Joseph Smith in January of 1841 said, we came to this earth that we might have a body and present it pure before God in the celestial kingdom. President Russell M. Nelson said, your physical body is a magnificent creation of God. It's his temple as well as yours and must be treated with reverence. The scripture declares what? Know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which ye have of God and you are not your own. For ye are bought with a price, therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are gods. Your body, whatever it's natural

gifts is a magnificent creation of God. It's a tabernacle of flesh, a temple for your spirit. As great as your body is, it's not an end in itself. It's an essential part of God's great plan of happiness for our eternal progression. I just love to come in that broad with why we have a body, what we're supposed to do with it, this magnificent creation that the Savior bought with a price so we can have and ultimately present it pure in the celestial kingdom before God. When this revelation happened, the larger context was the temperance movement had swept across the United States and throughout Kirtland. It was there in Kirtland. Everyone was drinking. There wasn't a lot of clean drinking water. Men, women, and children were drinking alcohol so shocking

to us today, but alcohol was just a part of the climate back then. That is so interesting to me because clean water, is that a relatively new thing? For back then, drinking alcohol was safer, which is strange. When I was in the Philippines on my mission, we were instructed to go buy soda on Sundays because we had to stay hydrated in the tropical heat. Those kinds of exceptions were made because, the water was unsafe. I'm not sure if that's true anymore, but the water is unsafe in parts of the world and in Joseph Smith's world for the most part. Yeah, I think if we walk around, Karen,

in 1831, you would see alcohol. Everybody drinks alcohol. It's not seen as odd or weird. Are we talking all kinds of alcohol? Are we talking like whiskey, wine, beer? Hard drinks, liquor, fermented, hard cider, all of it. Verse two, by greeting, not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation. And the words of wisdom showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all the saints in the last days.

Given for a principle with a promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of saints who are or can be called saints. God is so kind, so compassionate, so loving, This is for all, any level of conversion, even the weakest can abide by this. In a periodical publication in Navu, The Times and Seasons, on June 1, 1842, they published a discourse that President Hiram Smith gave a brilliant one on the Word of Wisdom. President Smith, because at this time he was a member of the first presidency, patriarch of the church, replaced his father in that position.

He said, The Lord told us what is good to eat and to drink and what is pernicious, meaning gradually harmful. But some of our wise philosophers and some of our elders pay no regard to it. They think it too little, too foolish for wise men to regard. Fools. He called them fools, exclamation point. Where is their wisdom?

Beautiful play on words. Where is their wisdom, philosophy, and intelligence? Yeah, he's coming out of the gate, hardcore. Hiram Smith continues, If they have any wisdom, they obtained it from God. Have they grown so much wiser that they're going to instruct him in the path of duty and to tell him what is wise and what is foolish? Do they think it too small for him to condescend to tell man what is nutritious or what is unhealthy?

Who made the corn, the wheat? the rye and all the vegetables, who was it the organized man and constituted him, as he has found, who made the stomach, his digestive organs, and prepared proper nutrients for a system that the juices of his body might be supplied and his form be invigorated by that kind of food which the laws of nature and the laws of God said would be good for man. for the word of wisdom is adapted to the capacity of all that are or can be called saints. Wow, that's Hiram Smith. Incredible.

Does God know what he's doing? He does. He created the body. He created every bit of it so he knows what's best for the body. Hiram Smith says, these are the principles I act on and I've always practiced them. and they're what my family practices. They're what Brother Hiram has contended for, and I contend for,

and I know that nothing but an unwavering, undeviating course can save a man in the kingdom of God. There you go. Verse four, Behold verily thus saith the Lord unto you in consequence of evils and design which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days. Can you think of many examples of this,

and Hank, think of the conspiring going on in the last days. The Lord says, I warn you and forewarn you by giving you the Word of Wisdom. I'm giving this to you because there are so many conspiring men and women. What comes to mind first for you when we think of groups that are conspiring against our health? The one I've heard the most was tobacco. People knew, but they conspired, not to reveal what they knew. I've always thought that was interesting to have people know but to put profit over people. Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of.

It's the most shocking. I had read this a few years back. I read it again in preparation for this, the National Institute of Health, when they published 50 years of progress, a report. from the surge in general on the health consequences of smoking. I had read this before, but again, I was shocked. In 1953, all the major tobacco companies executives met together with guidance from an advertising firm Hill & Knowlton,

they devised a strategy where they founded an organization called the Tobacco Industry Research Committee, and then it became the Council for Tobacco Research, which publicly stated their commitment to public health. For decades, what this industry actually did is denied the harms of their products, discrediting all the scientific evidence, and funded research that diverted attention from cigarettes. And they marketed new products implying that they had lower and health benefits even. Talk about conspiring men and women in the law.

last days when the Lord said, I warn you. Hank, any examples come to your mind? What comes to my mind is Paul. The love of money is the root of all evil, that if you love money more than you care about, say, your customer, you can end up harming millions. John, do you remember Revelation chapter 18? We found this list of what's for sale. What's for sale in the world? gold, silver, stone, pearls, fine linen, purple silks cloth goes on, ivory, wood, bronze, iron, marble, spice, incense, mire, and frankincense. John is seeing everything that's for sale in the world. Do you remember the last few? Cattle and sheep, horses and carriages, and human beings sold as slaves.

And I wonder if a little bit has to do with this, I warn you of conspiring men in the last. days. Money's more important than human life. When I read that report, it's super long. It's a couple-hour read. When I got to the secondhand smoke, I had to stop. It was so disturbing of how far they went to try to deny the dangers. The Lord, right, I warn you and forewarn you of what's coming. We'll come back to that. Just touch lightly when we get to tobacco in just a moment. Verse 5, that inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drinks among you, behold, it's not good. Neither meet in the sight of your father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him. Now we obviously, is water, verse 6, and behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine of your own make.

I think it's Doctrine in Covenants 27-2. It doesn't matter what you eat or drink, as long as your eyes single to the glory of God. And then water is universally available and free. Brigham Young changed the sacrament wine to water, which we drink of now. Verse 7, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies again to us. We know that. Go back in the 1830s. They used it for everything.

Medicinal purposes, they drank it all three meals, but for medicinal purposes, that was the remedy for almost everything that ailed them. For them to completely change, this was a huge step for them. Verse 8, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and it's not good for men, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle to be used with judgment and skill. There was an official statement that came out from the church on August 15, 2019. because you could see how some would read this and say, it's just tobacco.

Well, the church clarified, vaping, e-cigarettes, green tea, and coffee-based products are prohibited by the Word of Wisdom. The statement continued, substances such as marijuana, and opioid should be used only for, medicinal purposes as prescribed by a competent physician.

On June 1st, 1842, Hiram Smith in that same discourse, he said, tobacco is a nauseous, stinking, abominable thing. I'm surprised that any human being should think of using it. Wow. Thank you, Hiram. Yeah. Hank and John, did you catch Elder Klebin got in his most. recent BYU

devotional, the Atonement of Jesus Christ, Judgment Day and you. He has that Hiram Smith flare. I challenge any of us identifying as a cell phone clutching, couch potato to put

our spirit in charge of our body to set some meaningful long-term exercise and dietary goals to get out of your current comfort zone and to enjoy increase physical, mental, and emotional blessings, mind over mattress, spirit over body. Wow.

Yay, Elder Klebingott has that forthright punch when he speaks of health and wellness, too. Reminds me of 1604, King James. We're talking King James Bible, King James. He wrote a pamphlet called A Counterblast, Two-Times. tobacco. He called smoking loathsome to the eye, hateful to the nose, harmful to the brain, and dangerous to the lungs. From what I've read, and both of you can comment on this, it wasn't really about a medical thing. It was more about a moral issue. Yeah, exactly. That's Hiram. When Hiram called it nausea, stinking abominable, it's more social and cultural because they don't

know the adverse health effects yet. Yeah, it won't be until the 1930s that science is saying, wait, this is wrong. And of course, as you said, it was hidden for so long. Yeah, Hugh Cummings, I think he was the surgeon general. And he noticed that it caused nervousness, sleeplessness, et cetera. It's just going to start early on. And then in the 50s, we'll get some more meaningful research on the dangers of tobacco. And here, what year is this? 1833. Wow. 1833. I remember when television commercials used to feature the Marlboro Man, at one point, they finally decided let's take tobacco advertising off TV.

But I've seen magazine ads that says, you know, it aids in digestion. Like you said, they were trying to say, oh, actually, it's healthy. I'm old enough to remember the smoking and non-smoking sections on air. airplanes. It was the most ridiculous thing. You're an airtight aluminum tube and people are smoking, but you're two rows behind the non-smoking section, so it won't hurt you. King James the first, he imposed a 4,000% tax on tobacco. Four thousand? Yeah. Now, speaking of profits being more important than people, when this failed to decrease demand, now he didn't know the healthy, but he took a more pragmatic approach, nationalizing the entire tobacco trade so that

profits went directly to the crown. He's like, get beat them, join them. Wow. Yeah, that's not a conspiracy, John, not at all. Yeah. I've got extended family who I want to extend some grace. They're trying to quit. People out there are trying to quit. What we're talking about is people trying to hide that it was so harmful. That's right there, conspiring men. They know it's harmful. They're hiding it by setting up a, what was it called? Tobacco Health Institute. Incredible. Yeah, they were paying people, researchers, scientists to minimize the effects, to do counter-scientific studies. They did that for years. It's really sad. The tobacco, executives gave ENTs, ear-nose throat specialists, free cigarettes for decades to give to their

patients. Now, these are patients that are coming in already sick with asthma, all sorts of problems, already sick. And they're handing them out to their patients to help relax the throat to breathe better. They're giving them cigarettes. This went on for decades. I just don't know how the first person came up with the idea. You know, hey, that's a pretty plant. Yeah, it's got some sizable leaves there. Let's put it in the house. No, let's light it on fire and breathe in the smoke. How did that happen even? I have never had that idea about any house plant I've ever owned. It's odd that that idea came up. I remember I was just out of high school when the settlement between the tobacco industry and the United States occurred. Do you guys know that number?

It was $200 billion that the major tobacco companies would pay to the United States and five territories and Washington, D.C. for 25 years, with payments continuing indefinitely into the future. I love that the Lord sees that and sees. There's some conspiring men. As you said, Karen, I warn and forewarn you. I have in my notes an anticipatory revelation. Yeah. Perfect. This sort of thing is going to continue. You need to be aware that this sort of thing is going to continue. It's still going on. That's why I love the statement that came out.

No vaping, no e-cigarettes. There's always going to be the next thing. First nine, and again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly. I think I had more than one teacher say, no hot chocolate. or interpret it in their own way. Many have, but as early as the revelation was given, Joseph Smith and Hiram said, no, we interpret this to be coffee and tea.

In July 1833, Joseph Smith said, it's coffee and tea. In 1842, Hiram said, there are many who wonder what this means, whether it refers to coffee or tea or not. I say it does refer to tea and coffee. Then Brigham Young in 1870, how many witnesses do we need? There's three.

Brigham Young said he interpreted it as tea and coffee. Those are the hot drinks that we avoid. It's been clarified multiple times, is what you're saying. Multiple times that it's coffee and tea. Yeah. Coffee and tea. This is where, Karen, you can help us out here. the reasons I brought you on. Most members of the church would in verse eight say absolutely,

verse seven, alcohol, absolutely. And then we get into hot drinks and all, well, what about this? Where those discussions begin. What about herbal tea? What about, you know, what counts? I like what you're saying here is the Lord can't list every single thing that is bad for you on the earth. So there's principles here to watch out for. But hot drinks has been defined for us. Hot drinks has been defined. In addition, in that statement that I read earlier, the official statement published by the church, August 15, 2019, they said green tea and coffee-based products. There's your principle.

See how you can apply that to your situation. Interesting. Karen, I get questions like you from students saying, the church's official position on fill in the blank? What I hear you saying is here's a couple official positions. Everything else is not official. Hank, President Hinkley, when people said, well, drugs isn't in the word of wisdom. Where's that? He said, what a miserable excuse. There's likewise no mention of the hazards of driving into an empty swimming pool or of jumping off an overpass of the freeway, common sense would dictate against such behavior. It's common sense.

Substances such as alcohol, tobacco, and harmful drugs are forbidden by the Lord. President Russell M. Nelson said that in the August 2019 New Era. I recommend that to everyone. I know we want to be told everything, every ingredient. There's just too much. Satan never sleeps. There's just going to be too much out there, too many products, too many ingredients. We're going to have to get to, it's a principle with a promise. Karen, that August 2019 new era, it does give you some interesting details that fit a more modern audience. It repeats again what you just told this. The Lord forbids using tobacco and hot drinks, which church leaders have explained, means tea and coffee. Modern prophets and apostles have frequently taught that the word of wisdom

warns against substances that can harm us or enslave us to addiction. There's a paragraph on vaping and e-cigarettes. There is a paragraph on mocha, latte, machiato. I wish I knew what that was. Sorry, everyone. Green tea and ice tea, marijuana, opioids. Like you said earlier, Karen, that new era article came the same month as an official church statement. We can link this in our show notes. It's an official church statement on the Word of Wisdom. It's only two paragraphs, but it backs up what was in that new era article. As a member of the correlation committee, you're going to take that pretty seriously.

I am, yes. As a member of the correlation materials evaluation committee, the correlation committees, the first presidency and Corn of the Twelve. I'm on the evaluation committee. So we're going to take any official statement by the church pretty serious. We make sure when we look at materials that it's based in scripture or words of the prophet. You have a beautiful article by President Russell M. Nelson in the 2019 new era. Karen, let's keep asking you just a couple more questions. John, I have a bunch. I occasionally hear from frustrated Latter-day Saints. who say, well, we don't drink coffee and tea, but you can have all the chocolate and caffeine

that you want as long as it's not coffee and tea. But I'm not hearing you say that's the point. I don't see the church has ever clarified the reason why. Here's just how these terms are defined. Is that right? That's right. That's how they're defined, but we don't say, we don't clarify all the reasons behind that. I don't think the Lord always does that once in a while he does, But it's my observation that usually he doesn't. That's beautiful. So we can use our agency. We can pray and find out for ourselves.

Again, this is a principle with a promise. The Lord will let us know. Who would have thought that just a few words in verse 9, hot drinks are not for the body or belly would cause... Such a stir, right? Becomes such a hot topic. Yeah, so much heartburn. In teachings of President Gordon B. Hinkley, I read this delightful little quip that he heard from a bishop of a woman saying during her temple recommend interview, now, Bishop, you're not going to let one little cup of coffee keep me out of the temple. He came right back and said, now, dear sister, you're not going to let one little cup of coffee keep you out of the temple. It's the way you frame it.

I think if we get too myopic and get in specifics, caffeine, heat, tannic acid, I think we're missing the principle. We need to go back to the guiding principle. We were given this body and we're to present it pure in the celestial kingdom. Let's see what we can do to keep it healthy. Can I do this? Can I do this? How about our framework is what can I do to help this temple that God has given me, this incredible gift, be a house for his spirit to dwell, for my spirit to be able to express itself.

Maybe we ask the wrong question sometimes when you text me, can I have this type of tea versus is there something that I can do? We'll get there in just a minute. It's very clear on what the Lord would have us do to keep our body healthy. It's a great habitation for our spirit. And if you keep listening, everyone, we're going to give out Karen's cell number at the very end. You can text or all your questions. You can text or all you want. All day, all night, ingredient lists. I think this would be a good place to bring up something that I brought today.

This is from my friend Dr. Anthony Sweat. Both of you know, Anthony. He would not say that this is the church's official position, but he put something on his Instagram account, I think about a year ago that I found so fascinating. And I would love to hear from both of you on this. Here's what he wrote. The issue on Joseph Smith's mind in the winter of 1833 was not, How can I make people more healthy?

But instead was, how can I make people more holy? The Word of Wisdom came for the elders in the School of the Prophets who were seeking to become sanctified to see the face of God. When we make the Word of Wisdom only about health benefits, we can get confused. When hundreds of scientific studies show certain health benefits of tea or coffee or alcohol consumption. If the word of wisdom were only about health, it would say something like, thou shalt refrain from refined sugars, or thou shalt plank. Surely, the Lord offers health blessings for living the word of wisdom, but its purposes are to prepare for endowment,

to be in the presence of God, to reveal his hidden mysteries. Its purpose is to create conditions that help bring that about. Self-restraint, discipline, clarity of mind. Its purpose is to help help mark you as modern Israel, as verse 21 suggests. Tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol are ubiquitous in any society. When you refrain from those things, it sets you apart as a peculiar person. One more. So if someone says, why don't you drink tea or coffee? Don't say, because it's a sin or it's unhealthy, say something like,

because we believe God has told us to refrain from some common consumption. In doing so, it shows dedication to God and develop self-control, for which we believe He will bless us. Comments from either of you, I liked what Anthony's saying here is it's not just about health, it's about being set apart, being different, being peculiar even. It's beautiful. Being healthy for me, striving to be healthy, that is a holy role in my life. That's a beautiful statement from Anthony Sweat. That's lovely. It's interesting to reflect that for the first 100 years since this revelation, ask your average member of the church,

they wouldn't bring up any science in this. For them it was a matter of, well, the Lord asked, we're probably getting in trouble if we want to have an exact reason for everything he's asked us to do. Right. Instead of more, I am striving to discover the Lord's will for me, even if I don't completely understand, it sounds like a better way to go. That helps me to realize, ask a member in 1850, why you refrain from tobacco, what are they going to say? Well, the surge in general has determined. Yeah, seems much more obvious today. Before we move on from verse 9, what if someone says

I can't handle the hypocrisy of someone who puts back three energy drinks in a day but doesn't drink coffee and tea. They can go to the temple where someone who drinks coffee with much less caffeine can go to the temple. I know that's not an easy answer, but how would you respond? Let's make sure we ourselves are on the covenant path. Let's look out for ourselves. I think that's a helpful principle. We don't know what goes on in people. people's worlds, why they do the things they do. So I think it's safer to be concerned always with yourself. Whatever is going on, let's just make sure that we're good with Heavenly Father and love all others. I have a sibling who is in the hospital right now. He got caught up in

drugs really early on in his life. After that lifetime battle, and I mean a long lifetime, he said he's done. He decided to call it quits. You never know. You don't know what they're dealing with. I think it might be a little myopic to say, well, they're drinking that. I would say, no, what am I drinking? That's the question I'd ask rather than, are they drinking energy drinks and yet we can't drink coffee? Karen, I really appreciate that answer. John, you've said this before to me, when we start looking sideways at righteousness of others and what we think about it, we generally get in trouble. And what Karen's saying is, look up. Yeah. If you want to look around and see hypocrisy, you will find it. I love Mormon's counsel tomorrow night, notwithstanding

their hardness. Let us continue faithful. I know that they're all doing that, but let us continue faithful. Just what you said, Karen, I got to look after me. I can't control all that. Looking sideways never goes well. It's exhausting, right? It's exhausting to try to keep track of what everyone's doing then they're standing before God. No one knows they're standing before God. Let's keep an eye on ourselves. Again, love and help each other along the covenant path, but it's exhausting. Yeah. It's better to look up. There's probably a reason that Temple recommend interviews are done behind closed doors. We don't stand everybody up in front of the ward and go through the interview.

Yeah, it's so personal. Karen, do you want to keep going here? Verse 9, we could probably spend the next few years on those few words. We already have. Let's go to 10. I love verse 10. We get stuck in the prohibitives, the coffee, tea, the tobacco, and strong drinks. We think that's the word of.

of wisdom, well, here comes the joy. The bulk of it, there's so much more, begins in verse 10. And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs, God hath ordained for the Constitution, nature, and use of man. It's been that way from the beginning when he created this beautiful earth. Genesis 129, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs, God hath ordained for the Constitution, nature and use of man. Every tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed, to you it shall be for meat, Hebrew for food. It's been that way from the beginning.

He has provided all of these beautiful, nutritious vegetables, fruits for us to partake of. It's just a beautiful thing. Verse 11, every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof, all these to be used with prudence and Thanksgiving, I asked the primary children. When I was primary president years ago, I had a huge primary. What's your favorite food?

We're talking about Word of Wisdom. Mac and cheese, pizza, Oreos. I go, yum! And they listed dozens of things. Now think carefully. What's your favorite food that God has created? And their little faces go, pizza, mac and cheese, Oreo. exact same thing. They are so cute. I was talking to my friend Stephanie. She was teaching

Word of Wisdom to her primary children. She said, okay, who can tell me what the word of wisdom is? She said, this cute little boy, he shot up his hand and he goes, that we don't eat a lot of sugar. She goes, your parents are wonderful. That was her response. Your parents are wonderful. Yeah, that's not the word of wisdom, but you have really good parents. We shouldn't eat a lot of sugar. God has given us all of these beautiful things to partake of, fruits, vegetables, everything that grows. I get emotional. John Hank, when I eat, talk about gratitude and eating this with Thanksgiving. In the revelation, look in verse 11. It says to do this with Thanksgiving. Look in verse 12. We do this with Thanksgiving. I don't know what that looks like to you or to our

listeners, but I am an emotional eater. I cut open an orange and like I get weep you. I'm like, how could anything smell this good? I cut open a pomegranate that looks like rubies. It's the most lovely, luscious tasting fruit. Every meal, whatever I'm eating, I just say, Heavenly Father, how did you even think to create something that's this beautiful, this delicious, and this nutritious? It really is. something we say the word of wisdom is section 89 i think it's so much broader than that i read to you genesis i want to read to you section 59 inasmuch as you do this the fullness of the earth is yours the beasts of the field the fowls of the air and that which climbeth upon the trees

and walketh upon the earth yea and the herb and the good things do you love that and the good things which cometh of the earth whether for food for raiment for houses barns orchards gardens or vineyards yea all things which come of the earth in the season thereof are made for the benefit and use of man both to please the eye and gladden the heart yea for food and for raiment for taste and for smell to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul this is word of wisdom section 59 even before Joseph Smith received Section 89. We have hints of this throughout. All of these beautiful things the Lord has ordained

for us to partake of to enliven our soul and more importantly, to keep us connected to God. It pleases the eye and gladdens the heart. I tell him, I'm like, oh, Heavenly Father, this is so beautiful and it tastes so good. I'm just so happy that you provided this for me. It's such a blessing. that's beautiful i was hoping you would go there because i thought in section 59 i have in my

margin what a gracious god i've given you such a variety of fruits and vegetables i mean i had a raspberry the other day and i thought i had been caught up into the third heaven there's something about raspberries it's not just fun for us it pleaseth god that he hath given all these things unto man. How gracious that he shares that with us. The variety, that's what gets me. I used to watch Star Trek when I got home from school in elementary school. There was this human that they caught. I don't remember anything about the episode. Sorry, Trekkers out there. But the aliens gave him, they called it a nourishing protein complex, drink this every day. No variety. It was just that. I think about the variety of the fruits and vegetables that we have.

And then the fact that it pleases God to share that with us, that's really gracious, isn't it? It's remarkably gracious, John. I love that, especially in the summer months. And we're going to read, was it verse 11, every herb in the season thereof? Oh, it's making my mouth water. I went out on my cherry tree, and I know I should have washed them. I'm just eating cherries off the tree. I have fruit trees galore in my backyard.

I love it. Again, if we talk too much, you're going to have me in tears. I can't get over that he thought to make so many remarkable, beautiful, delicious things for us to partake of. There's so much. He wants us to do it with Thanksgiving. Whatever that looks like to you, to me, it's to eat them. That's why I eat so healthy, because he says to eat them.

So I do. I eat the pineapple, the watermelon. and all the berries, everything, every fruit in the world that I love. Oh, can I tell you something? This is for your, why did he say that file? But I'm walking down a dirt road in the Philippines in the early 80s. This guy yells at us, hey, elders, and he's got a big machete in his hand, which is kind of alarming. But he grabs the top of a pineapple and wax it off, puts it on a stump, and goes,

whack, whack, whack, whack, whack, hands us a slab of fresh pineapple on the blade of that machete, that pineapple. You can't get fresher than 10 seconds. Oh, yummy. And it's making my mouth water, remembering that pineapple was so good, so fresh. Then somebody gave me a mango, and I thought, oh, my goodness, I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.

Yes, we need to have a fruit platter. When I served in Florida, you want to talk about mangoes? Oh. They melt in your mouth. They melt in your mouth. They are so delicious. This man that we tracked it into, he took a screwdriver because I'm like, I can never figure out how to open this coconut. But he knew he took a screwdriver and he goes, watch this and just hit it on the eye and broke it open.

And we had fresh coconut flesh. It was divine. Nobody but a God could think to create. all of this. No one but a God could come up with, again, I keep going pomegranate, because how can you make it look like jewels and taste like that? It's the most beautiful

thing that we have all of these herbs, vegetables, fruits and plants to partake of. I'm curious about, where did your motivation to eat healthy come from? Has it been the scriptures? Has it been common sense, as President Inkley would say?

John, I'm going to have to put this one on God. I don't know if it's a gift. of the spirit, having an appreciation for the human body, even since I was little, in my youngest recollections, knowing that the human body is so, so special, and it's so fragile. I have another brother in the hospital right now up at the U of You. He's been paralyzed years ago from an accident. He has paraplegia. He had to have an operation.

When he got home from that surgery, he texted me what a joy it was to be able to eat food. He couldn't eat for 12 days. The greatest joy was to come home and be able to eat. From my earliest recollection, I went, this is so remarkable, this amazing human body that houses our spirit. And then to make it even more enjoyable, God gives us all of these remarkably beautiful, smelling, tasting, looking, nutritious foods to help our bodies to be as healthy as they're able. As they're able, I have some brothers that are very ill. We weren't all blessed with healthy bodies.

Many, many of us have sicknesses of every sort and variety. They have DNA. There's genetic factors. There's so many things that play in here. But we can strive to be as healthy as we can with what we're currently dealing with. God has given us all of these beautiful things to partake of. He includes in verse 12, beasts and fowls of the air, which he's also ordained for us to use.

But notice we do it with Thanksgiving, and he asks us to do it sparingly. Let's go back for just a second to the revelation in 59. Look at verse 20. It pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man from to this end where they made. That's so beautiful in and of itself. He did all this because it's pleasing.

But he says there to be used with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion. He says something similar. Recall the revelation to the shakers in Doctor and Covenant, Section 49. Who so forbideth to abstain from meat, that man should not eat the same as not ordained of God? That's for people saying meat's not ordained of God. as the shakers were saying, he continues in verse 19 of section 49.

Behold the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth is ordained for the use of man, for food and for raiment, and that he might have it in abundance, but it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin, and woe be unto man that shedeth blood, or that wastes flesh and hath no need.

One thing I love about working with correlation materials evaluation is we look for scriptural precedence, not just one. The doctrine and covenants tells us, sparingly, 59 says not to do it in excess and to use judgment. We have section 49 that tells us not to be wasteful with flesh, so we have a broader picture of what that looks like. I wanted to show you both an article by my friend, Dr. Andrew Hedges, Andy. He wrote this article called American Wildlife and the Word of Wisdom.

This is something I had never thought about before, where the Lord talks about the beasts and the fowls of the air and meat. What Andy did is he went and looked at the nature of hunting animals in the 200, 300 years before the word of wisdom. This is what he wrote. For over 200 years, colonists, settlers, and citizens had shot, trapped,

and snared an incredible variety of wild animals and mammals in their midst. They had used them as regular, easily obtained sources of food, both for themselves and their animals, as well as sources for clothing and trade items. Americans had also pursued them

as pests and hunted them for recreation. Hunting had been largely unrecognized, with the result that incredible numbers of some species appear to have been regularly killed. Frequently, when more animals could be obtained and could be used, most or all of what had been killed was left to rot on the ground. The age and size of the quarry mattered little, so long as sufficient numbers could be harvested to achieve any given end. Anything was considered fair game. So entrenched had these attitudes and practices become over the course of 200 years

that protective laws and calls for restraint went largely unheeded and unenforced. And by the middle of the 18th century, enough animals of several species had been killed or harried away that the decline was noticeable in several parts of the country. The indiscriminate exploitation continued unabated into the 19th century, which time numerous authors in variety of publications were making note of the precipitous decline in the numbers of several species. Then he talks about the word of wisdom. And this is what he says.

Some of Joseph Smith's February 1833 Revelation echoed the popular culture of the time. You said that earlier, Karen, the temperance movement was alive and well. The revelations prescriptions against the use of alcohol, tobacco, hot drinks, and meat during the summer, as well as prescriptions for grain and fruit, were demonstrably similar to ideas being promoted in the temperance movement and other movements during the first third of the 19th century. In stark contrast to the popular culture, however, stands the revelation's instructions regarding wild animals. As this article has shown, the sentiments in these instructions was very different from that

which prevailed at the time and had become entrenched over the previous 200 years. It says that what Smith taught had challenged centuries old assumptions, ideas, and practices in American culture. He says these teachings regarding wildlife have probably attracted less attention than other things, but his ideas on wild animals were just as foreign to current thinking as his teachings on a host of other topics. God, heaven, hell, premortality, priesthood, authority, Smith's revelation regarding wildlife constituted for the time an entirely new way of thinking about human's relationships with other creatures. It's a beautiful article. We'll link it

our show notes. This is a lot about stewardship. It's my favorite word, stewardship. That reminded me again of verse 21 of section 49, woe be unto man that shedeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need. All of that waste, heartbreaking. We have careful stewardship. We talk about time, talents, our finances.

do we think of our body as a stewardship? One of our most important stewardship is how we treat our body. Karen, can I ask you something else? You have such a kind heart. I know that there are listeners out there who have been tempted to turn this off through guilt. Maybe I haven't taken care of my body. Maybe I don't eat the right foods. Maybe as a mom or a dad, I have not.

offered the best diet to my kids. I know I have been guilty of that. I'm the dad. Let's go to the store, pile in everything you want. What do we say to those of us who are feeling like, oh, I feel kind of like really sad about myself. That's not what our goal is here. Not at all. No, we're just reiterating the principles that are in the word of wisdom. Those party foods are fun. That's why we party. We have those on occasion. This is our day-to-day striving to treat our body kindly. There shouldn't be guilt, loathing, nothing of the sort. It's my invitation. A very broad one that will help anyone with the word of wisdom. We'll get there and I think that will remove a lot of the guilt. I hope everybody listening. If you're like me, when I go to the grocery

store. My wife calls it budget busting. She's like, what did you do? Why did you buy all this? It was on sale. Look at all this wonderful ice cream that was on sale. And I'm the best dad ever because I brought home a box of cookies. Anybody listening? Just know I'm still listening. Stay with us. And this is true of any topic we discuss. All of us are falling short in areas. But we keep coming back because we feel uplifted and we're thinking, and I'm going to make a course correction here. Yeah. That's okay. That's why I love that I get to sit here

because I need to make lots of course corrections too. Yeah. All right. What's next, Karen? 14. Grain? Is that where we are? Grain.

As I mentioned, the prohibitives are three. The what we should do are innumerable. Grain. Look at this. Verse 14. All grain. Look at verse 16. all grain. Look at verse 17. Wheat for the man. All grain is ordained for the use of man and beasts. Verse 14 to be the staff of life for man and beasts. Verse 16. All grain is good for the food of man as also the fruit of the vine. I love grains. God ordained them for our use. Wheat for man, corn for ox, oats for horse. I must be a horse because I love oats and I do love corn. I like rye.

all of this and barley, et cetera. I love that he's giving us things that we should partake of. This is what we can eat. There's great things on our life help topics page. And that's right in the Gospel Library app. I love that you're showing us that the balance of this section is what to enjoy, not what to avoid. That more of it is what to enjoy and it makes my mouth water the more we talk about all these. You had me at the wheat bread, too. I think God is saying, look at all of these

wonderful things. Yes, the three prohibitives are there, but think about it. If you don't smoke and you don't drink, coffee or tea, you could still be a terribly unhealthy individual. Think about that. If you just go with the prohibitives, God is saying, listen, I've given you herbs, I've given you fruits, I've given you all this grain for your use. That's what they're for. I mean, That's pretty strong. Wheat for man and that all grain is good. It's for food. That's what he made it for.

What's all there if you want to partake? Just like the fruits, we're talking about the variety. Look at the variety of grains. It's so fun. God is so kind to give us this many things to eat. I have to tell you both a funny story. I have a, at the time, he was 14. He was in junior high.

He was frustrated that the school cafeteria would not let him go back for seconds. He is very assertive, so he went to talk to the principal about it. And he went to the office and actually ended up talking to a counselor. He said, I want to have seconds. And a counselor said, you know, you're welcome to bring food from home, in which my son replied, there's no food at home. And it wasn't within about an hour that my wife got a welfare call from the school that said,

is there anything we can do to hell? There's no quote, no food. There is nothing to eat. I'm like, there is no food at home to which my wife said, no, no, there is food to eat at home.

And I asked him later, I said, what were you talking about? He said, there's no food here. There's just ingredients. That's funny. Parents are so powerful. I don't think they know because parents, that's the child's first connection with food. It is.

You have the privilege and the pleasure of introducing them to all of these beautiful foods. You're the one that gets to teach them if you have a garden about gardening, vegetables, fruits. You're the one that gets to lead out. You do the grocery shopping, at least for the first little bit of their life. You have a lot to say on that. You're very powerful that way. Make sure there's food in your house, Hank. Yeah, I know.

Coming up in part two of this episode. How are we lively members? If God said be a lively member of your ward or branch, what does that look like? How do you participate in your second hour meetings? How are you a lively member in your ministering assignments? How are you a lively member when you prepare for and attend the temple as often as you're able? interesting that the Lord tells him to be a lively member, a fully participating member.