followHIM - Doctrine & Covenants 98-101 Part 1 • Dr. Derek Sainsbury • Sept 8-14 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

What can we learn from the Saints’ devastating losses in Jackson County, Missouri and how does that promise of the resurrection transform the story? Dr. Derek Sainsbury explores the harrowing events... of 1833, the destruction of the Church’s printing press, and the personal sacrifices of the early Saints as they sought to build Zion in one of the most difficult frontiers imaginable.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC237ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC237FRGerman: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC237DEPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC237PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastDC237ESYOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/ScT0t5_BGuIALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookBook of Mormon: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastBMBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 Part 1 - Dr. Derek Sainsbury01:32 August 1833 information03:41 Derek Sainsbury bio05:30 Presidential candidates assassinated06:38 Come, Follow Me Manual07:56 Death of first foreign missionary10:07 Indian Removal Act12:08 Mary Rollins and John Murdock16:05 Polarization of Jackson County20:13 The Promised Land 2.023:33 The Law of Consecration in Missouri25:01 Article by W. W. Phelps26:42 Zion in every book of scripture, except the New Testament28:03 Checking in with John Murdock (and Parley P. Pratt)36:46 John Murdock is the best of the Saints39:26 What happens to the Murdock children42:24 Innuendo and a lost letter45:06 Missouri and Kirtland needed emojis46:55 Leadership is easier without people48:45 Doctor Philastus Hurlbut “coverts”51:41 John Murdock’s journal May 7, 183355:42 Dr. Sainsbury shares lessons from his own personal trials1:01:05 24-temple rendering1:05:09 Reasons they blamed the Mormons1:10:04 Results of meeting in Gilbert’s store1:13:53 Mobbing and the Book of Commandments1:17:58 End of Part I - Dr. Derek SainsburyThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications DirectorIride Gonzalez: Social Media, Graphic Design"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up in this episode on Follow Him. They threw out all the other stuff, such as paper and type and tools, printed materials, throwing out the signature seats of the Book of Commandments. Meanwhile, a separate group went into the house downstairs, ransacked the home, threw all the furnishings into the street. Then in a final act of destruction, a human wrecking crew deroves the building, demolishes the walls, and turns everything into a heap. of rubble.
Starting point is 00:00:33 Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my pure co-host, John, by the way. John, Section 100, verse 16, says, I will raise up into myself a pure people that serve me in righteousness. John, you are a pure co-host because you serve God in righteousness.
Starting point is 00:00:56 Pure as the driven slush. Thank you. All right. I love it. John, we are blessed today. We have returning from four years ago, our friend, Dr. Derek Sainsbury. Derek, welcome back. Great to be here.
Starting point is 00:01:14 Looking forward to learning with you and learning from the scriptures today. We loved it four years ago. John, Derek brought out some insights that we still talk about to this day. They'll come up in other episodes. Other conversations. Thank you for coming back. Yeah, absolutely. Happy to be here. The bar is now set pretty high.
Starting point is 00:01:34 We're going to give us some things to talk about for the next four years. The date of Section 98 is August of 1833. Now, you know the history of the church pretty well. The late summer and fall of 1833, things get really dark in Missouri. What do you think of when I bring that up? These are some really wrestle worth, is that a word? Worth revelation. Say that five times fast. Yeah, my memory is it starts in about July. Press is destroyed. Their persecutions demands to leave. It all happens right there. And as we talk about
Starting point is 00:02:12 a lot, Hank, wait a minute. This is supposed to be Zion. Wait, what, wait. The internal struggle of how to deal with all of that must have been pretty tough. We've been talking quite a bit about how there are two church centers at this time. We have saints in Ohio and we have saints in Missouri. there are 1,000 miles apart, trying to communicate with each other, both dealing with difficult problems in different situations. Derek, as you've looked at these sections today in this time period, what are we going to do? What are we going to look at?
Starting point is 00:02:41 I want to look at the history of what happens, because these sections of the Doctrine and Covenants don't make as much sense if you don't understand exactly what's happening. There's a lot of backstory. Then I actually want to look at it through the lens of three, couples. We'll look at Sydney and Elizabeth Gilbert, Philo and Celia Dibble, and John and Julia Murdoch. We'll see them meet on the other side of these sections in Clay County. They'll all be in the same spot. When we get there, hopefully we'll be able to talk to them about what's
Starting point is 00:03:17 happened. Maybe then talk to each other and everybody else that's listening today about how we deal with trials and why they happen in our lives. We'll talk a little bit about the verses in these sections that talk about the Constitution, about government, how we're supposed to interact with government, because I think those are important things to talk about as well. Absolutely. John, like I said, Derek was with us four years ago. There's very few people who know more about the history of the church, and especially about Joseph Smith, towards the end of his life running for president. But there might be someone listening who thinks, I don't know who Derek Sainsbury is. Do we know anything about this guy? Can we vouch for him? I do. It just came
Starting point is 00:04:04 right out of my printer what I know about this guy. Wow. Derek Sainsbury grew up in Taylor'sville, Utah, and I love the Sunbury, Australia. He received a bachelor's in political science from the University of Utah, an MPA from Brigham Young University and a Ph.D. in American history from the University of Utah. And he's taught in the seminaries and institutes for 27 years before coming to religious education at BYU. Like you said, Hank, he's the author of the first monograph on Joseph Smith's presidential campaign in 1844. Now it's called Storming the Nation, the Unknown Contributions of Joseph Smith's political missionaries. He's researching a dual-biased, of Joseph Smith and Robert F. Kennedy. What do they have in common? The only two assassinated U.S. presidential candidates. So that's fascinating. He married his high school sweetheart, Meredith Pettett, and they're the parents of three sons. They live in Bountiful. He enjoys reading golf 80s music. I love this man. And playing with his dogs. I was asked recently, your favorite 80s band, and I said, Toto, just that fast. It just I don't know what.
Starting point is 00:05:16 what yours is. I have a wide taste when it comes to 80s music. That was good music and good movies. The older I get, the more I realize how great it was to grow up in the 80s and 90s. Those were the days, as we like to see. John, did we talk about Derek's new book? Tell us some more about that, because that's fascinating. They weren't presidents, but they were presidential candidates. And that's what they have in common. Can you tell us more about that project? Well, it just starts out as a trivia question, who were the only two assassinated presidents for candidates. I did my first book on Joseph Smith's campaign, and then I've dug now into Robert Kennedy's campaign, and I went to the archives in Boston, photographed along with
Starting point is 00:05:57 some family members of all this campaign material, and they're taking those names, and they've been able to track down and continue to track down people all across the country that are in their 80s, early 90s who are still alive, who campaigned, and so we're doing Zoom interviews with them, and the whole idea is just to create this biography back and forth of their lives and some of the things they had in common as far as what they were trying to accomplish. It's been a really fascinating project and hopefully get it out for the next presidential campaign in 2028. Wow. That's fantastic. Derek is always doing the most interesting research on where the church and the government intersect. I think that's why he's going to be great for today. Let's start with the
Starting point is 00:06:41 Come Follow Me Manual. It says this. For the saints in the 1830s, Independence, Missouri was literally the promised land. It was the center place of Zion, the city of God on earth, and the gathering of the saints there was an exciting prelude to the second coming. But their neighbors in the area saw things differently. They objected to the claim that God had given the land to the saints, and they were uncomfortable with the political, economic, and social consequences of so many unfamiliar people moving in so quickly. Discomfort soon turned to persecution and violence. In 1833, the church's printing office was destroyed and the saints were forced from their homes.
Starting point is 00:07:18 Joseph Smith was more than 800 miles away in Kirtland, and this news took weeks to reach him. But the Lord knew what was happening and he revealed to his prophet principles of peace and encouragement that would comfort the saints, principles that would also help us when we face persecution, when our righteous desires go and fulfilled, or when we need a reminder that our daily afflictions will eventually somehow work together for our good. I can see why Derek gave us the introduction that he did fits right here with what we're going to look at today. Derek, with that, you told us we need some background in order to understand these sections, appreciate them. Yeah, even before we get into that, I want to go off what you read from the manual.
Starting point is 00:08:02 Actually, fast forward to Easter Sunday in 1843. Joseph Smith has just received news that Lorenzo Barnes, a missionary, has died in England. He's the first foreign missionary to have passed away. He centers his talk that Sunday on him and on the resurrection. I just want to quote a few lines because I think they're the core doctrine of what the Lord is trying to help his saints in Jackson County understand. Joseph says this, When I heard of the death of our beloved brother Barnes, it would not have affected me so much
Starting point is 00:08:40 if I had the opportunity of burying him in the land of Zion. Would you think it's strange if I relate what I have seen in vision in relation to this interesting theme? Those who have died in Jesus Christ may expect to enter into all that fruition of joy when they come forth, which they possessed or anticipated here. So plain was the vision that I actually saw men before they had ascended from the tomb as though they were getting up slowly. They took each other by the hand and said to each other, My father, my son, my mother, my daughter, my brother, my sister. And then he says this, of all the things I know to be true, John and Hank, this is number one in my life.
Starting point is 00:09:26 He said, all your losses will be made up to you in the resurrection, provided you continue faithful. By the vision of the Almighty, I have seen it. And I hope that today as we look at real people and think about our own real lives and the difficulties we struggle with, that we can remember that Christ's resurrection has already made it better, has already healed it and fixed it. It's just a matter of timing. And that what will come on the other side will be so, so incredible. To get the background here of why they're getting thrown out, we need to know why they're there in the first place. April 1830, the church is restored. The next month in May, there's something called the Indian Removal Act that Congress passes
Starting point is 00:10:15 and that President Jackson signs and then begins to enforce, which starts forcing all of the southern tribes of American Indians west to where the northern tribes have been pushed, which is west of the state of Missouri. In September of 1830, the Lord gives a revelation in Doctrine and Covenant 28, where he says that the Zion that's talked about in the book of Mormon that would be built in the last days has not been revealed yet, but that it is somewhere near the border of the Lamanites, which is the word the Lord uses and the saints use to talk about the indigenous people of the Americas. Of course, that's the first organized mission. We have four missionaries that
Starting point is 00:10:58 leave in October and head to Jackson County to get to the other side, which is, Indian territory. And on the way, they stop in Kirtland. They have a lot of success. Remember that? There's three couples that they have success with that will kind of help us understand the story. The first are Sydney and Elizabeth Gilbert. Sydney grew up in New Haven, Connecticut. He was educated, maybe even Yale. In 1817, he moves to Painesville, which is right next to Curtland, and he starts a store. He hires a young guy named Newell K. Whitney. You may have heard of him and teaches him how to be a merchant, and they open a store together. He gets married to his wife, Elizabeth, and they have a son named Loyal, who unfortunately
Starting point is 00:11:44 passes away the next year. In 1828, Elizabeth's sister, Kazaya Rawlins, she passes away, and he takes in, he and Elizabeth take in not only Keziah, but their three children, James, Mary Elizabeth, and Caroline Amelia, Rawlins, who will also figure in our story. story when we get to Jackson County. Sydney and Elizabeth are Methodists, and Mary Rollins, you might remember the story. She's 12, and she hears about the book of Mormon at Isaac Marley's farm, and she convinces Isaac Morley to let her read it.
Starting point is 00:12:21 Well, the person that also reads it that night with her is her uncle, Sydney Gilbert. That ends up leading him and Elizabeth to join the church as well. Then we have Philo and Celia Dibble. Phil is from Massachusetts. He gets married in 1829. His wife owns land near Kirtland. Coincidence. He hears about what's going on at Isaac Morley's farm. And he goes and he listens to Oliver talk about the administration of angels at noon day. And he's totally convinced. He wants to get baptized. But he says, quote, my wife thought it was too hasty and said, if I would wait a little while, perhaps she would go along with me. I paid her no heed. but went forthwith and was baptized by Parley P. Pratt. She, of course, gets baptized later, but I just think, there's a time where to not give heed. That night he has an amazing spiritual experience where he fills the spirit throughout his body.
Starting point is 00:13:18 He says, the next morning, I started home a happy man. When Joseph needs some financial things taken care of, he sells 1,200 of his acres and gives the $400 to Joseph, not on loan, just gives it to him. him. That earning value is about $132,000 today. There's couple number two that come in at Kirtland. Couple number three are John and Julia Murdoch. John's born in Eastern New York. He experiences severe childhood trauma because his mom dies when he's four and he has an evil stepmom. Okay. Like an evil stepmom. To the point where, listen to this story. When he's 17, he has an accident with a scythe that cripples him. He almost dies. He said he stared it in the face, and I prayed to my Heavenly Father that if you preserve my life, I would serve him. Then he says
Starting point is 00:14:11 this, I bore up under it well until my stepmother found fault with me for being careless. I thought at a bad time to find fault, and I could not forbear weeping, but during one year, I remained in my father's house. She would very often find fault with me because I was a bill of expense and not able to work. Things don't work out very well. He said that, quote, she made his father and his children rather unhappy for the 15 years they were married. And then he said this, being persecuted by my stepmother and this accident with my wrist made me search for truth. And he does. He starts out as a Dutch Lutheran, then he becomes a Methodist, then he becomes a Camelite. Then he goes to Ohio and he marries, and then he's converted and baptized by Parley P. Pratt and confirmed an elder by
Starting point is 00:15:02 Oliver. His first Sunday, he preaches and baptizes five people, including his wife. The next Sunday, he baptizes three more. This guy's a missionary. In the next four months, he baptizes 70 people. He moves into Kirtland, sells his home, moves in. His wife gives birth on April 30th to twins. Most people know the story that Julia passes away on the same day that Emma Smith delivers twins and the twins pass away. What John does is he gives those twins to Joseph and Emma, whom they named Joseph and Julia. He doesn't want to get remarried. That's generally what happened. You get remarried when your wife dies in this time period to take care of the kids. He is so, he says this in his autobiography. He is so terrorized about his stepmother that he doesn't want to
Starting point is 00:15:56 remarry and have a stepmother that might treat his children the same way. So I want you to keep that in mind, too, as we go through this, the trauma that he's experienced. Okay. Now, Zion, Jackson County, Missouri, you can't think of a more difficult place to try and build Zion inside the United States. In fact, you can't understand the Civil War if you don't understand the 1850s, the political polarization that happens there and bleeding Kansas. Can't understand the political polarization and bleeding Kansas. If you don't understand the Mormon War of 1838 where we're exterminated from the state, you can't understand that if you don't go back five years earlier and look at our expulsion from Jackson County, which is what our sections deal with today. This is a very difficult place. Missouri is a slave state.
Starting point is 00:16:48 Independence is important because the Santa Fe Trail is so lucrative. I need to go back in time, Hank and John, and get in on this. The first return on investment to the Santa Fe Trail was 1,500 percent of taking things to Santa Fe of taking things to Santa Fe and bringing back gold and silver and other things. An economist has done the work that the average return on investment was 200 to 300%. It's a very lucrative trade. Towns are popping up along the Missouri River to get closer and closer to Santa Fe. And independence is kind of like that last town.
Starting point is 00:17:26 And it has an amazing place where they can get steamboat engines in. It becomes very important. but it's only created in 1827, just four years before the Latter-day Saints get there. When Oliver gets there, he says this, We are counted worthy to suffer shame for his name for almost the whole country consisting of universalists, atheists, deists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, and other professed Christians, all the devils from the infernal pit are united in foaming out their shame against us.
Starting point is 00:18:00 God forbid that I should bring a railing accusation against them for vengeance belonging to him who was able to repay. Well, we are blessed to preach the gospel, even if earth and hell oppose our way, for we dwell in the midst of scorpions. The people that are there when we show up are basically four groups of people. You have a lot of people escaping justice from anywhere in the United States and living on the edge of the frontier. You've got businessmen, obviously, looking to get rich because it's easy money. A lot of them are coming from poor families in the Appalachian states. They're looking to break out of poverty, and they've moved there.
Starting point is 00:18:41 And then there's some there that are extending slavery. Another missionary that beats our missionaries there by two years, he writes this. This will just give you a flavor of what the saints are living among. This missionary wrote back to his missionary society and said this, what I have found here is anything but encouraging. The prospects for our evangelical work appear less likely here than any place I've seen in my Westward journeys, such a godless place. Filled with so many profane swears, it would be difficult to imagine it worse.
Starting point is 00:19:14 The majority of the people make a mild profession of Christian living, but it is mere words, not manifested in Christian living. There are a few so-called ministers in the gospel hereabouts, but they are a sad lot of churchmen, untrained, uncouth, giving to imbibing spiritous liquors, and indulging as participants in the gambling which accompanies horse racing. There are many suspicious characters who headquarter here, but when intelligence arrives that a federal marshal is approaching this county, there is a hurried scurrying of many into Indian territory on the west side of the Missouri.
Starting point is 00:19:52 As soon as the marshal returns downstream, this element is much. back in the saloons and other centers of sin. There appears to be an overabundance of females here practicing the world's oldest profession. Additionally, gouging, which is trying to gouge somebody's eye out, gouging in more serious forms of violence are common. Finally, the sheriff has little support from the populace except to prevent burglars breaking into merchant shops. He has confided to me that the citizens do not care to have the lawless punished. Let's build the Zion, shall we? Here's a perfect spot.
Starting point is 00:20:30 Wow. If the Lord is serious about making us the best we can be, he's going to give us the kind of situations that allow us to prove that. There isn't a place more difficult to build Zion than this. Now, in previous episodes, you guys have talked about the missionaries that come down in 1831 to find the center place, to dedicate the time. temple. One of those was John Murdoch. He has to leave his kids in the care of someone else. He gets sick for almost the entire mission. In fact, he gets there after they've left. When he finally gets
Starting point is 00:21:10 to Jackson County, he's so sick that he's in and out of consciousness for three months. And he said this, I had to share this. He said, I was so weak that I could not keep the flies out of my mouth. Oh. Oh. Just awful. Miserable. Yeah. Someone else who went on that journey was Sydney and Elizabeth Gilbert. Also, the 15-year-old nephew they took in, James Rawlins.
Starting point is 00:21:36 You'll remember that's because in Section 53, the Lord told Sidney Gilbert that he was to go to Zion to be an agent for the church. As it says here, be an agent unto the church in the place which shall be appointed by the bishop, according to the commandments which I is given. He goes there, which makes Elizabeth, his wife, the first female Latter-day Saint in Zion, which is kind of an honor too because she has Jewish ancestry. Promised Land 1.0 to Promise Land 2.0. You'll remember on that visit in Section 57, they identify the temple lot. Sidney Gilbert is told to plant himself in this place, to establish a store for the saints, to get all the licensing he needs, and be prepared to.
Starting point is 00:22:23 make Zion work economically along with Bishop Partridge. You'll remember in Section 58 that the Lord says some hints about what's coming that they don't pick up at the time. When you and I read this, we're like a Godlike point of view where we know what's going to happen. They don't. Look at these clues the Lord gave. He that is faithful in tribulation, the reward of the same is greater in the kingdom of God. You cannot behold with your natural lives for the present time. the design of your God concerning those things which shall come hereafter, and the glory which shall follow after much tribulation. For after much tribulation come the blessings.
Starting point is 00:23:05 He, in Section 58, also tells them that they are honored in laying the foundation, that they're there to be obedient, that all things are to be done in order, that that gathering be not in haste nor by flight, but be done as counseled by the elders of the churches. And then the last one is Section 59, where the Lord commands them to keep all the commandments and to live the law of consecration. Martin Harris, that's actually in Section 58, is the first one to consecrate. The Lord says, anyone who comes here must live the law of consecration. When the land is dedicated, Sidney Rigdon says this to the people that are there.
Starting point is 00:23:48 Do you pledge yourselves to keep the laws of God on this land, which you have not kept in your own land. And they responded, we do. Do you pledge to see that others of your brethren who should come hither keep the laws of God? And they responded, we do. Then he arose and said, I now pronounce this land consecrated and dedicated to the Lord for his possession and his inheritance. So this is supposed to be something different. This Zion built on God's laws and they covenant to do that. Almost to the day that he does that. Clear across the country in Virginia, there is a slave named Nat Turner, who leads a rebellion where he and some other slaves slaughter about 60 men, women, and children in their beds. They're caught. 56 of them are executed, but another hundred or so are lynched. If you had
Starting point is 00:24:44 anything to do with anything, and you were a black slave there in Virginia, they're lynched. And this causes the South to be in panic all the way to the civil war. So they start passing laws. Free blacks and slaves can't have education. In some places, missionaries can't preach to slaves without the master's approval, so forth and so on. They're constantly scared about this. And this is important, right, because Missouri is a slave state. Yeah. The article that W.W. Phelps is going to write that's coming up, I guess. Yep, absolutely. Directly confronting that. Yeah. I hope you can see I'm trying to weave together all these things. The match is what you're talking about, John, that we're building all this Tinder. What happens with that article is the match that turns everything to fire. I love what you're saying here about you can't conceive of a more difficult place to try to build Zion than here. That's fascinating of why the Lord works that way sometimes.
Starting point is 00:25:46 Well, we can see that in our lives too. Sometimes we get a calling. or we get a situation in our life. And like, this is the actual worst thing you could do for me, Lord. This is the most difficult. And it just seems to be part of what we'll talk about today with trials. If you've heard of the tender mercies of the Lord, I call those the bitter ironies of the Lord. Yeah, there you go. This is the absolute worst thing that could happen.
Starting point is 00:26:12 I also was thinking, Derek, as you were teaching us, what a difference a year makes for these people. This latter-day same thing isn't even on your radar. And now you're moving to the middle of nowhere out onto the western part of the country. I just think selling all your stuff. Yeah. How did this happen to me? Right. I was doing fine.
Starting point is 00:26:36 All I did was join a church. Yeah. My whole life. Everything about my life has changed. That's what's interesting. The word Zion itself shows up 148 times in the Old Testament. It's a major theme, particularly. about in the last days with Isaiah. How many times in the New Testament? Zero. In the Book
Starting point is 00:26:58 of Mormon, 42, and the Pearl Great Price, 14, DNC, 191 times, almost as much as all of them put together. What makes us different from the Protestant churches, it's, we're building Zion, gathering into one location and literally trying to build a community to receive Jesus Christ. That makes everything we do completely different in some ways very countercultural, very un-American, if you will, for the time period that is going to cause some hostilities. I think as a young teacher, a young missionary, I thought this is a restoration of the New Testament Church. Through the years, I've realized it's much, much bigger than that, much, much bigger than that. Yeah, well said.
Starting point is 00:27:49 a lot of Old Testament. We're going to bring back the fathers, Zion, Garden of Eden. Temples. Yeah. Aronic, Melchazidic, both Old Testament figures. Let's keep going, Derek. What are we going to do next?
Starting point is 00:28:04 Okay, so we left John Murdoch sick with flies in his mouth in Jackson County. Oh, man. In February of 1832, he and Parley P. Pratt leave on a mission to go back to Kirtland. And they're both sick the entire time. In fact, one time, John Marduk hasn't been able to get up for days. He said, he thought of our calling and resolved to travel and preach or die in the attempt. And he asks for a blessing. It's just enough to get to the next day.
Starting point is 00:28:33 It's just like that for them. They're not baptizing anybody in Missouri or in Indiana. One night, they're woken up at midnight. A gentleman named Isaac H. McCann is hollering at the place they're staying at. He had tracked them down 27 miles to get baptized. Then they had another baptism the next day. Isaac McCann, as in McCann, you baptize me right now. Exactly.
Starting point is 00:29:00 27 miles. Wow. Didn't that happen to you guys on your missions? All the time. Yeah, please. I insist you administer unto me. King Lomona. Yeah, it's basically a marathon, right?
Starting point is 00:29:12 More than a marathon. on. Hank and Derek, we hear this all the time of people being sick a lot. It seems like so much of a way of life of battling through sickness. Oh, and then, oh, I'm sorry you're sick and almost on your deathbed, but I'm calling you to go on a mission. Oh, and leave your wife and your kids behind. They're also sick. It's amazing the sacrifice. Here's from his journal, Murdoch's journal, about Parley P. Pratt. I was reading his journal, they seem to be giving it back and forth to each other. He writes this, five miles from any house, Brother Pratt, had the chill, and then the fever came on, and his strength left him, and he lay down in the two feet of snow with a north
Starting point is 00:29:54 wind blowing on him. I asked him if he could travel. He said, no. I asked him if he did not believe the Lord would heal him. He said he would heal him, according to his faith, but said his faith was weak. I asked him if he wished me to lay hands on him. He said he did, and with many tears, I felt on my knees and laid my hands on him in the name of the Lord Jesus and prayed for him. We both arose and traveled on and gave glory to God for his goodness. Sometimes, I think too, partly P. Pratt, like this is a big hero for so many of us. Here's a moment of weakness in faith that terrible, terrible, I mean, he's laying down to die, basically.
Starting point is 00:30:37 The priesthood heals him. The faith of John Murdoch heals him. Guess what happens the next night? Murdoch gets it. So he's sick. I want you to keep this date in mind. When it's March 29th, he's really sick in his journal. He says he's really, really sick. We'll come back to that in just a minute. He's on his way up to Kirtland. Well, let's go back to our friend Philo Dibble, who's never left the Kirtland area. On February 16th of 1832, he happens to be watching Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon have a vision of the three degrees of glory. Of course, the famous line,
Starting point is 00:31:12 I like it in this version, the oldest version, after the vision. Joseph appeared as strong as a lion, but Sidney seemed as weak as water. Joseph noticing his condition smiled and said, Brother Sidney is not as used to it as I am. One of the consequences, though, of that vision, right, as we've already talked about, is that on March 24th, Joseph and Sydney are tart and feathered. And it's an awful experience. They both think they're going to die.
Starting point is 00:31:39 little Joseph is exposed remember and on March 29th when his dad is on his way back and dead sick not dead but dead sick his son dies he doesn't even know it like you said John we underestimate how this was just part of their life and how difficult sickness and death were after the tarring and feathery Sydney and Joseph go to Missouri. They take another trip to Missouri because the Lord has asked them to create the United firm connecting the two church centers in Kirtland and in Independence with the two stores and the printing press and all of that. There's an interesting story that happens when they're there. They arrive in April 24th. Sydney Rigdon goes on the courthouse and independence and he preaches a sermon. And according to one of the men that were there,
Starting point is 00:32:36 Sidney claimed to, quote, have been to the third heaven and talked with God face to face. It's so shocks everybody that someone would say that. The next day, all these different ministers and independents come and talk to him, basically say, do you realize what you said? Do you know what you just said? He repeats it to them. And then he says, you don't have the truth. You're just the blind leading the blind. Winning friends and influencing people, not Sidney's style right here. Not in his playbook. It actually agitates the people. Bricks start being thrown through windows. There's a meeting held to drive the Mormons out of the county. This is clear back in 1832. One of the Indian agents that's in Independence, he learns about it, he goes to the meeting.
Starting point is 00:33:24 During the meeting, he opposes any such action. I just want to make clear that not everybody in Jackson County was against the Latter-day Saints or even fit into all the four groups, the majority groups we were talking about. In fact, he was quite indignant at the idea of, quote, having the Constitution and the laws set at defiance and trodden underfoot by anybody. He went to certain influential mob characters and offered to decide the case with them in single-hand combat. He said that it would be better for one or two individuals to die than for,
Starting point is 00:33:59 hundreds to be put to death. And none of them took him up on the offer and things died out. At the end of 1832, there are 800 Latter-day Saints now on 1,700 acres in four different settlements, independents, and then the three that are on the Blue River, the prairie, Colesville, and Whitmer branches. They're moving in. Sydney Gilbert, excuse me, he's made a high priest, one of the seven high priests that is to take charge of the church there. They want Joseph to stay. They feel like he should be there in the capital, right? Zion. He's not going to stay. And that causes some heartburn as well as some of the discussions about how to create the United firm caused a little bit of heartburn. That's important to understand. By this time, John Murdoch has made it back to Kirtland. And he stays in Kirtland and gets better from all this that's happened. He writes about having to go get his kids and pay for their care. of consecration be darned. He writes this in his journal. My son, Oras, he's seven years old, I had left with Brother Benjamin, who had fallen from the faith. And I researched this. It was
Starting point is 00:35:11 because of the vision of three degrees of glory. Because of the vision. Oh, let's stop there for a second. Because that was so different than anything they were used to in mainstream, the heaven-held dichotomy. Because of that, couldn't take it. Wow. And this isn't the first time John Murdoch is going to deal with this. We'll see that a little bit down the road, too, in an interesting way. So he said, I had to pay for his keeping. Brother Phil Judd, with whom I had left John, had removed a Missouri and taken my cow in bed to pay for the keeping of the boy. And then brother Serene Burnett, with whom I had left my Phoebe, his four-year-old daughter, would keep her no longer. and I had to pay for her keeping.
Starting point is 00:35:58 My little daughter, Julia, I found well with Brother Joseph, but my little son Joseph was dead. When the prophet was hauled out of bed by the mob, the child having the measles lay in bed with him at the time. They stripped the clothes off the child, and he took cold and died. Then he writes this, they, meaning the mobbers, are in the Lord's hands. There are real people that are receiving these sections that have real trials and struggles that we need to keep in mind. Now we can get into a section. Let's go to section 99 of the Doctrine and Covenants. He goes to Joseph.
Starting point is 00:36:37 What's next on the list? What do I need to do next? The Lord is going to give us Section 99. It's kind of out of order here as far as it's placement in the Doctrine of Covenants. We should probably mention chronologically, 90. should be before 98 as far as when they were given. It got put in the wrong order in 1876 and stayed that way, even though we've learned since, that it was actually a year earlier.
Starting point is 00:37:03 In it, the Lord calls John Murdoch his servant. It's time for you to go on another mission to the eastern countries, house to house, village to village, city to city, to proclaim mine everlasting gospel unto the inhabitants thereof. In the midst, notice that, in the midst of, of persecution and weakness. In other words, this is going to be a fun mission for you. Wow. Man, he is quite a missionary. I wonder how many people in the church today are there because of John Murdoch. The Lord says, whoso receiveth you, receiveth me. Who receiveth you as a little child, receiveth my kingdom. Now, I want us to think about that when it comes to, this is a
Starting point is 00:37:47 trial for him. Go back out on the mission. You just came back. You had to pay. for your kids. You have zero, almost zero money. Your son died that you adopted out. Now you're supposed to go back out. And by the way, you're going to go all over the place. And by the way, in persecution and wickedness, this is a big trial for him. While the Lord here is specifically talking about the people he preaches to, about receiving him as they received the Lord and receiving it as a little child, I was thinking this time reading through, isn't that kind of true about our trials too. When we think about deciding to receive a trial as a little child, I think about King Benjamin, being willing to submit to his father and all things that are inflicted
Starting point is 00:38:33 upon him, there's an attitude that I've noticed in the best of us where they are able to receive trials like a child as opposed to fight against them. I see this in John Murdoch. What do you guys think about that. It reminds me of Job right off that has the Lord giveth the Lord takes the way, blessed be the name of the Lord type of a thing. The whole book of Job isn't that way, but that idea right there sounds like receiving it like a child. He says, though he slay me, yet will I trust in him. What verse is it in Alma? Many were hardened because of the length of the war, but many were softened. Alma 62, right at the beginning.
Starting point is 00:39:22 It's aftermath of the war chapters. Yeah, it seems that trials are an accelerant in one way or another, depending on how we receive them, how we receive them. Yeah. I don't love that doctrine. No, well, you don't have to love it. It's just true. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:39:41 That's it. In verse 6, though, the Lord says, it's not expedient. In other words, don't do this until your children are provided for. Their experience wasn't that great, both for you and for them. I love this and sent up kindly unto the Bishop of Zion, right, to Edward Partridge. I think that's beautiful. He actually finds someone, Caleb Baldwin, who's a great, great man, who's going down to Zion. He pays him $30, which in value, wage value is a lot more than that in our modern time periods for him to take them, but also to get them adopted out and to give money to the people that are going to look
Starting point is 00:40:26 after the kids. Guess where little Phoebe goes? She's adopted by none other than Sydney and Elizabeth Gilbert. She joins that family. Isn't that cool? The story blends together really nicely. It would make a good movie. He leaves on his mission on September 27th, 1832. He returns on December 22nd. He only goes into Eastern Ohio. Oftentimes we look at that and we say, oh, that was his mission. That's not his mission. He comes back to spend some time with Joseph Smith and with Julia over the holidays. Then he goes back out for January. And then he comes back to go to the school of the prophets. And then he's going to go back out again after that. He sees this mission. as ongoing, but that he can take breaks for things. That's how he interpreted it, which is great.
Starting point is 00:41:18 This same time period in the fall of 1832, that's when Philo and Celia Dibble decide to go to Zion. They send $50 or about $17,000 today for their land. Another $50, $17,000 they give to Parley P. Pratt for whatever needs he has. Then before he's to leave, Gilbert is going to New York. You remember, they're, they cross paths and he's like, man, I could use some more money to buy supplies. Philo gives him $300 or about $100,000 in purchasing value today. It just gives it to him. No IOU or anything. They head for independence. They get there on the 10th of November. They move out to the Whitmer settlement. They build a home, 20 acres of land in a garden and consecrate to Bishop Partridge. To wrap 1832 up, Sidney Gilbert, remember, he'd gone and gotten all those supplies, he'd adopted
Starting point is 00:42:14 little Phoebe to take care of her. Now he buys a lot right next to the courthouse, and you two have been there, I'm sure, many times, the Whitney and Gilbert store, and builds a home in the back. He writes a letter on the 10th of December to Joseph and the other leaders in Kirkland that really ticks the leaders off a little bit. There's some innuendo. We don't have the letter. It'd be nice to have the letter. But based on how Hiram and Orson Hyde write back, it seems to be that there was some veiled innuendo that the leaders were mistaken about how to do things with the economic operations of the United firm, but also as to which of the poor were deserving of assistance because people are just showing up without getting a recommend
Starting point is 00:43:01 to come to sign. That's not to be done in haste. But if you're baptized in Indiana and you're poor and you know the law of consecration. Jackson County is looking like a good bet because you're going to get some land and a good start. I'm not saying that's the motivation of everybody, but there's a lot that show up because they can get some land. Sydney Gilbert's not okay with that, it seems. But they're not sending them. They're just choosing to go. Exactly. They're just showing up. Yeah, Derek, you mentioned a recommend. They were supposed to be, it's not like a temple recommend, but you didn't just go to Missouri. You were supposed to be chosen or told or called to go there and you were given a recommend. Is that right? Yeah, you're given and
Starting point is 00:43:43 recommend by Bishop Whitney or by the president of the church or someone from the first presidency to take to Edward Partridge. You were supposed to send money ahead as a contribution before you got there to consecrate everything so that there could be land ready for you. Bishop Partridge is writing back to the church leaders and say, stop sending these people. They're overwhelming the system. The church leaders in Kirtland are like, we're not sending them. They're just showing up. It's difficult to communicate when your letter takes two weeks to go back and forth. This isn't talking over the phone. It's overwhelming the system. And it seems like Bishop Partridge is really concerned about it and a little bothered by it. But so is Brother Gilbert, who's his partner in all
Starting point is 00:44:28 this because he's the one running the store and also helping purchase Lance. That'd be so frustrating. Yeah. Because what are you going to do with them? You can't refuse them. Right. You can't say, yeah, never mind. Sorry. Go back to Indiana. But at the same time, you weren't called here. Yeah. And you can't just let me get Joseph on the phone and ask him what to do. You can't do that. Right. They're sending letters back and forth. And I don't know about you, but have you guys ever texted back and forth with someone and there's been a miscommunication because there's no tone. You have to add emojis to give a tone of voice. Yeah, I looked through all these letters. I didn't see any emojis. You can see why you can easily misunderstand one another when you're writing
Starting point is 00:45:15 things back and forth. And that seems to be what's happening between the two groups of church leaders, which is causing some contention between them, as well as the idea that some of the leaders in Missouri are like, why isn't Joseph living here? He needs to be the one here taking care of this. This is Zion. Kurtland's a stake. And one of the letters that comes back, actually, not written by Joseph, I forget who, I don't remember if it's Hiram or Oliver or someone else, but it says, I'm paraphrasing, when you guys get your act together, then he'll come. In other words, it needs to be working and functioning, whereas they're saying you need to be here to help it work in function better. I don't know if you guys have ever had disagreements with church leaders or seeing church leaders have disagreements with each other, but...
Starting point is 00:46:02 No, they're all perfect. Yeah, they're all perfect where we live, right? Good thing this doesn't happen today. Yeah, I mean, I was just sitting here thinking, these are a bunch of humans causing human problems, aren't they? Yep. Yeah, you'd hate to be Bishop Partridge right there, wouldn't you, just going, how do I do this? Yeah. I want my hat business back. This is crazy.
Starting point is 00:46:25 Exactly. Things were much simpler before I joined this church. When I just said, are you a seven and a quarter here? Try this one. And, you know, that'll be 50 cents or whatever. Why don't they quit? Their testimony of Jesus Christ, their testimony of the Book of Mormon, their testimony of Joseph Smith, whether they always agree with him or not, as being a prophet, it's strong. They don't let that overwhelm who they really are and what they really know. This church leadership thing would be a lot easier if it weren't for the people, Derek. This is hard. This is hard. And especially for these two, they were both wealthy, successful. Their consecration of everything from their stores to their personal property, they're the backbone of what allows the law of consecration to start and to function in Jackson County. it's their consecration that is paying for the lands. It's their consecration that gives the credit needed to borrow money for other land.
Starting point is 00:47:35 You have the story of, I can't remember if it's Emily or Eliza Partridge, where she's walking down the street. She sees a girl wearing her favorite dress. She's in rags. She's like, I don't know about this. I can understand why our friends, Brother Partridge and Brother Gilbert, would be frustrated because they're really doing the heavy lifting and trying to make this work. When things aren't working, it's got to be doubly frustrating because one, you're in charge and two, you're the backbone of it.
Starting point is 00:48:06 That happens today. I've seen people in wards and branches and districts. They carry a lot of the new membership. They carry a lot of the responsibilities. Yeah, Hank, we've talked to people that say, oh, I have six callings in my ward. You're like, wait, what? There's six callings in my branch. We had a guy in our ward that said, well, we tend to work the workers in our church.
Starting point is 00:48:31 That old idea, if you want something done, ask a busy person. It's like, ooh, you, that sounds like Gilbert and Partridge here. Yeah. Derek, we switch now to 1833. Yeah, now 1833. Remember, John Murdoch had come back to do the school of the prophets. Then he leaves and starts heading out east. He ends up in Jamestown, New York with a bunch of other missionaries, including a recent convert named Dr. Philastus Hurlbutt, who's out there preaching. His first name is doctor. His parents named him doctor. Yep. Keep him in your mind. Around this same time. time, section 90 that we've already covered, talks about, quote, I am not well pleased with many
Starting point is 00:49:23 things. I am not well pleased with my servant William E. McClellan, neither with my servant Sidney Gilbert and the bishop also, and others have many things to repent of. But verily I stand to you that I the Lord will contend with Zion and plead with her strong ones and chasten her until she overcomes and is clean before me. He sends this revelation to Missouri, but he says, sends a separate letter to Sidney Gilbert, and I just want to give you a quotation out of that. He says, we are aware of the great care upon your mind and consequence of much business, but you must put your trust in God, and you may rest assured that you have our prayers, stay in night, that you may have strength to overcome every difficulty.
Starting point is 00:50:09 We have learned of the Lord that it is your duty to assist all the poor brethren that are pure in heart, and that you have done wrong and withholding credit from them, as they must have assistance. And the Lord established you in Zion for that express purpose. To his credit, Sidney Gilbert writes back and apologizes and does what the prophet asks him to do. He's like 13 years older than Joseph, very successful businessman, which Joseph isn't. It shows you his humility. on May 7th, John Murdoch is in Dansville, New York. This is what he writes in his journal.
Starting point is 00:50:49 Quote, preached in the evening, the men behaved decently, though the most ungodly set of young females I ever saw or preached to. I rebuked them sharply, but the devil was so in them that I dismissed the meeting sooner than I otherwise would have. Only one man said anything to me. He tried to excuse the devil, but I told him, I thought they were old enough to know good manners, meaning the girls. I heard them, the girls next morning, tried to excuse themselves before I was even out of bed. I heard one man say to me that I had done well, that I had put it on them just right.
Starting point is 00:51:28 I like really want to be there to see what these young women were doing. What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah, what does that mean? Young women's activity gone awry. Right. Whose journal was that again? That's John Murdoch's journal.
Starting point is 00:51:42 for May 7th, 1833. Now to another experience from him on May 23rd, that's more important to our story. He finally arrives in his hometown of Courtright, New York, where he had all that trauma from the past. With his stepmom, by the way, I didn't mention earlier, but he ran away a couple of times. His dad came and got him and brought him back. If you can imagine him going back to this spot, now with the everlasting, lasting gospel and wanting to preach. Not a lot of people are listening. I want to pause here and tell a personal story. I hope that's all right. When my family moved to Australia, I was 11 years old.
Starting point is 00:52:26 I didn't know it at the time, but my parents' marriage was on the rocks, and that's the reason we moved there. My mother's Australian. We moved there to get a new start. I started seventh grade there in a school that was seven through 12. I was the only young Latter-day Saint. My cousins were there, but I didn't have much to do with them. They didn't have much to do with me. I was the only American. Like, nobody ever bothered to learn my name. They just called me Yank. Even the teachers would be like, Matthew, here, Yank, here. I was physically, any kind of abuse you can think of happened to me that year that I was there in Australia. It was awful. It was the worst year. It was the worst year. of my life, I turned 12, I was 11 turning 12. In fact, I still deal with some of the stuff that
Starting point is 00:53:16 happened there. My point is this is I felt a lot for John Murdoch as I was reading through his journal because recently I had the opportunity to go back to Australia for the first time in 40 years since I left to take my kids back, actually have dual citizenship. I went back to Summary. I got up early like 5 o'clock in the morning. I went to that school and I walked around it. I was so grateful the school wasn't in session that day. It was their labor day. I walked around it, and I did a lot of praying and a lot of casting out of demons in myself. I want to just testify of how good the Lord is to us in healing us to also be able to say to people that experience some difficult things in life, some difficult trauma. On Section 93,
Starting point is 00:54:05 which we've already covered, obviously this year, the Lord says that he plays is all truth and light and intelligence independent in the sphere in which it's placed. We're learning through psychology and through neuroscience that when someone young experiences trauma, they're living in a different sphere than other people mentally. The word that repent comes from that metanoil that President Nelson talks about all the time. One of it's kind of more ancient, in some of the ancient manuscripts, someone taught me that it's change of mind, but it's also coming out of your little mind, meaning you've seen something bigger and better and now you embrace it. Well, sometimes for those that struggle with trauma or with mental
Starting point is 00:54:53 health problems, it's hard to repent because you can't break out of that mental sphere that you're in. And I'm so grateful for modern technology with medicine. I'm medicated. I see an amazing Latter-day Saint therapist who's changed my life at 50. I was 51 when I finally was able to do that. And I've been able to break out of some stuff that happened there and then later in my teenage life. And I'm thinking about John Murdoch going back to this place of such hurt and bringing the gospel. And initially, no one is listening. Later, it's kind of out of the storyline chronologically, but because we're talking about this, I'll bring it in. He finally in 1836, so this mission keeps going to 1836. He takes a break for Zion's camp, but then comes back. So this mission that started
Starting point is 00:55:53 in 1832 that we looked at section 99, he goes all the way to 1836. In 1836, he decides finally to remarry, and he remarries someone who he had converted a couple of years earlier in his hometown. I bring that up because after we moved back from Australia, my parents got divorced, and I lived in 18 different homes before I was 18 on two different continents, experienced in one form or another, every kind of abuse that you can think of. My senior year of high school, I took seminary, not because I was a huge believer, but because I got out of class. my friends were at seminary. I remember the winter of my senior year, they did an activity where they did the plan of salvation, where you were playing all these games and stuff, and then they
Starting point is 00:56:43 said everybody died, and then they judged you and sent you to different rooms, celestial room, terrestrial room, t-lester room, and everybody got different rewards. I was the only kid in that 200 people in that hour that got sent to outer darkness, which was a closet where they opened the door and a heat wave came out because there were two industrial space heaters in there. One of the seminary teachers in a devil suit with K-bear Rock 101 blaring, which that was the good part, the K-bear. I got pushed into this closet, maybe five feet deep, three feet wide, if that, and spent 15 minutes locked in with this seminary teacher drinking Diet Coke and laughing at me as the only one that got sent to outer darkness. Now, I was already in a really bad place in my life, probably as bad as it's ever been. This cemented to me that, yeah, you're really not that worth it. You're really not that great.
Starting point is 00:57:40 I can't remember how long, how many days were weeks after that. I wrote to my seminary teacher. A young seminary teacher's name was Pete Sunwall, and I said something very flippant about taking my life. He called me that day. He lived in Sugar House. I lived down in Taylor'sville, for those of you familiar with Salt Lake Valley. and he called me and talked with me on the phone for about a half hour. He felt impressed to leave his wife and his young little son and drive from Sugarhouse out to my home in Taylor'sville. I didn't want him to come inside because I was embarrassed. We sat on our little couch that was out in the yard.
Starting point is 00:58:18 We talked for about an hour. When he left, I knew two things. Well, I knew one thing and I knew I wanted to believe in another thing. I knew that there was this adult outside my family who actually cared about me as a person. And the second was, this whole Jesus thing, it might be real based on how I felt with him. That started me on a path of reconciliation with heaven, of healing. I met with him sometimes at lunch. A couple weeks later, I met this girl in high school.
Starting point is 00:58:50 Her name was Meredith. She in person was everything that I, was lacking. He started me on that turn and she kept me going. I ended up going on a mission when I was almost 20. She waited for me and we got married. Between Pete Sunwall and Meredith Pettett, I was brought to Christ and I got on my mission. Man, I was the reason they raised the bar. I hadn't read the Book of Mormon. I didn't know all the stuff that everybody else knew, but I fell in love with the gospel of Jesus Christ. I didn't baptize. anybody except for an eight-year-old member. But I fell in love with working for Jesus and loving
Starting point is 00:59:33 Jesus and being able to embrace his gospel. When I came home, the only thing I wanted to do with my life was to do for others what Pete Sunwall had done for me. And that's how I got involved in seminary and where I'm at today. I can feel a kindred spirit with John Murdoch. He is healed in trauma by preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. And by marrying one of his converts, a woman that helps him get over the whole issues that he has with his stepmom. I know there's lots of people as I work with my students who struggle with mental health, who struggle with decisions that they made or that other people made that has really kept them from being able to come out of their little mind, repent and the bigger idea
Starting point is 01:00:21 of things. I just want to witness that we can help each other, whether it's spending time with someone, whether it's marrying them, taking a chance on them. Jesus is working through lots of means to bring us home and to heal us in our trials. And so I share that in the spirit that it's intended and hope that that might help others to realize that there's good things down the road. Beautiful. Thank you for that, Derek. That's very personal, but probably a lot of folks out there will be blessed by that.
Starting point is 01:00:54 I'm sitting here, Hank, thinking, 7th grade is such an easy time of life, isn't it? Anyway, let's get back to our narrative now so we can finally get to Section 98. So in June 25th, Joseph Smith and the church leaders, they mail the plat of Zion to the Missouri leader. You may remember the plat that draws out what the city should look like, the 24 temples in the center. they mail that on the 25th to Zion. June is the critical month. We talked about earlier that Zion and Jacksonian America are at odds with each other. In Missouri, it's even bigger.
Starting point is 01:01:40 We know from the revelations that Zion is one in heart, one in mind, dwelling in righteousness, no poor among them. Let's look at each of those individually, what Zion's trying to do, and what Jacksonian America in Jackson County is, is trying to do. One in heart, social. Let's look at that as a social thing. For the locals, there is a strict racial hierarchy. White, red, meaning American Indian, and black, meaning enslaved peoples, that you don't mix.
Starting point is 01:02:10 They're also there to get away from community, a lot of them. They don't want community. Either they're fugitives from justice, or they've had a bad experience with community. they're out there on the frontier. What are we trying to do, even if we don't all believe it? Our scriptures are saying all are alike unto God, black and white. We're saying that American Indians aren't savages. They're actually the remnant of the House of Israel and are going to help us build the new Jerusalem. In fact, we, or at least W.Felps, in the evening and morning Star, he sees the Indian Removal Act and all these tribes gathering near Jackson County as part of the
Starting point is 01:02:53 fulfillment of this. He writes, we continue to glean items of Indian news, and it is really pleasing to see how the Lord moves on his great work of gathering the remnants of his scattered children. He's printing about this, and we're talking about this. That's so different from the people that they're living among, this idea of all are alike and that the American Indians are part of God's people. One in mind, political or governing. In Jacksonian America, this is individual liberty. It's just past the 50-year anniversary of the founding of the nation, the Declaration of Independence. It's kind of in the air, if you will. It's in the stories. It's in the monuments. Politics is really starting. More people are now allowed to vote by two elections, 1840, so two presidential
Starting point is 01:03:40 elections away. For every one man who's on the role of a church, there are 10 men on the roles of the political parties. Politics is a big, big, big thing. More and more people are getting involved. A French philosopher comes here and writes about democracy and he basically says that the religion of America is politics. We don't have a state religion. Our religion is politics. What Zion trying to do, we're trying to build our own kingdom separate from the world to get ready for the second coming. We vote together. In 1832, we all voted Democrat, basically, both in Kirtland and in Jackson County, Missouri, for Jackson that the county is named after, Andrew Jackson. What about dwelling in righteous? Well, religiously, we've already talked about how we're so different. They only believe truth is in the Bible. They're less religious on the frontier. It's preach on Sunday, and then you live your life. We're talking about new scriptures, prophets, visions, priested authority that tells you everything you need to do economically.
Starting point is 01:04:47 It's so different. And then finally, economically, no poor among them. This is the time of the market revolution. Rivers and canals and now railroads are creating these bigger and bigger markets and people are moving from subsistence farming to cash crops, from artisan to manufacturing. There's a chance to make a buck. That's what we talked about earlier. A lot of people are in independence to do.
Starting point is 01:05:11 that's kind of the Western capital for making a buck. What are we doing in Zion? Law of consecration. Stewardship, not ownership. Run by religious leaders. Insular. We're trading amongst ourselves. We're not buying stuff from their goods. We have our own store that's the storehouse. We're not really using cash. We're trading. So we're not contributing to the local economy. And as people are leaving and we're getting bigger, fewer and fewer customers for them, they have a huge. A huge flood that spring of 1833 that wipes out the independence landing for steamboats. And it changes the course of the river. A little town further upstream called Westport has a better landing. The steamboats start going past independence.
Starting point is 01:05:58 Guess who gets the blame? The Mormons. Of course. Is there easy to blame? Always out there moving rivers. Yes, exactly. Well, Enick did move rivers, right? The other element before the fire starts is this idea of vigilante justice.
Starting point is 01:06:17 On the frontier, this is celebrated as this is what it means to a being American. If there's something that's unjust, if democracy moves too slow, you take it into your own hands. And you have some of us being very unwise and saying, yeah, this lands for us. And we're American Indians and us, we're going to take it over. You might as well sell or leave. Some of us, not all of us, but some of us are saying these things. It's just a matter of time before there's a spark. Here comes the spark.
Starting point is 01:06:46 There is a local preacher named Benton Pixley who really doesn't like us. Newell Knight wrote, his talk was of the bitterest kind, and he appeared to have an influence among the people to carry with him in his hellish design. He actually sends reports not to papers back east about how terrible and awful we are. He puts together a pamphlet called Beware of False Prophets. He's writing this at the end of June. It's time for Phelps to print his Evening and Morning Star for July. It comes out about July 10th, we think.
Starting point is 01:07:23 Guess what the first article is? Beware of False Prophets. He takes Pixley's line and he flips it around and says, no, actually you are. Here's some quotes. There cannot be but one Church of Christ, as there is one Lord, and one faith and one baptism. And then he claims that all the other ministers, including Pixley, are just doing their work to, quote, be supported by large salaries, quote, striving shrewdly to maintain the systems
Starting point is 01:07:51 embedded by men since they rejected the gift of the Holy Ghost. They are wolves and sheep's clothing, full of pride, full of contention, fond of vanity. Not helping. The other article that he writes is free people of color. In it, he basically quotes Missouri law. There's nothing really controversial about the first part of it. He quotes law because he knows that some free blacks in the north have joined the church. And if they were to come to Missouri, which is a slave slate, to gather to Zion, that's tricky.
Starting point is 01:08:24 He's putting out the laws about if you're a free black person who decides to come to Jackson County, here's the laws you have to obey to get here. Here's the paperwork you need. And then at the end of that article, he writes this, slaves are real estate in this and other states, and wisdom would dictate great care among the branches of the Church of Christ on this subject. So long as we have no special rule in the church as to people of color, let prudence guide. And while they, as well as we, are in the hands of a merciful God, we say shun every appearance of evil. He seems to be saying, don't come, be careful. but it's taken the other way. That's it. The fire is lit. The mob manifesto is signed by over a hundred of the local leading men, as well as your common ruffians. Here's some things from that manifesto. We, the undersigned citizens of Jackson County, believing that an important crisis is at hand as regard to our civil society, in consequence of a pretended religious sect of people that is settled and are settling in our county, styling themselves, quote, Mormons, and intending as we do to rid them of our society, peaceably if we can, forcefully if we must, and that the arm of the civil law does not afford us a guarantee, or at least a sufficient one against the evils which are now inflicted upon us.
Starting point is 01:09:54 We're going to act. Here are some of the other accusations. They converse face to face with the Most High God. Remember the preaching two years earlier of Sidney Rigdon. We have every reason to fear that with few exceptions, they're the very dregs of society, lazy, idle, and vicious. Instead of being chosen ambassadors of the most high, they should be inmates in solitary cells. More than a year since, it was ascertained that they had been tampering with our slaves, not a true story, and endeavoring to sow dissensions and raise seditions amongst them. Think of the Nat Turner Revolt. There is an article in their paper inviting free Negroes and mulattoes from other states to become Mormons and remove and settle among us. The intrudiction of such a cast among us would
Starting point is 01:10:39 corrupt our blacks and instigate them to bloodshed. Then it's signed by the leading citizens of town and other riffraff. Our friend Phelps puts out a little handbill, little five-by-seven handbill that says, no, no, no, no, that's not what we meant. It's too little too late. A meeting is set up for the 20th of July, for anyone in the county who wants to, as this thing has been circulating, this petition, they show up. David Pedigrew, I found this interesting. Some of them come across the river from other places. He said they had a solemn and determined look. I saw several women in their company who seemed to be more interested in mobbing than even their husbands. I found that kind of interesting. I'd never read that before. First on the agenda was to create a committee and to
Starting point is 01:11:29 write out a formal thing that they were going to give the church leaders. They're all drinking whiskey while they do it. They talk about the Mormons as being ignorant, superstitious, a little above the condition of blacks in regard to property or education, which is kind of funny since we have the only school in Jackson County, so poor that they're unable to buy 15 acres of land and destitute of means to even get bread or meat. And then they hit these five conditions. One, no Mormon shall be permitted to settle in the county. Two, those who pledged to move out of the county will not be molested and will be given sufficient time to sell their property. Three, the evening and morning star and the church storehouse must cease operations. Four, church leaders must use their influence
Starting point is 01:12:15 to prevent any further Mormon immigration and encourage church members to comply with our stated requisitions. And five, anyone refusing to comply with these requisitions must be referred to and brought to the attention of church leaders. Then they send men out to go round out the leaders of the church that live in that area. Edward Partridge, WW Phelps, Sidney Gilbert, John Whitmer, John Coral, and Isaac Morley. And they drag them to independence and they go and meet with them in Sidney Gilbert's store. This is what Edward Partridge says about the meeting. They demanded to have the printing office and indeed all our other mechanic shops belonging to our people,
Starting point is 01:12:56 belonging to our people, together with Gilbert and Whitney Store, close forthwith, and a society to leave the county immediately. We asked for three months to consider upon their demand, which was refused. We then asked for 10 days, when we were informed we had 15 minutes. Being driven to the necessity of giving an immediate answer and being interrogated separately, we all answered that we could not consent to their demands. Louis Franklin, the county jailer, then turred and said, I am sorry. The work of destruction will then commence immediately. The men went back to their families. Cindy Gilbert's families there. He stays at the store. Phelps goes down to his family, a block down the street, because the printing press is also their
Starting point is 01:13:43 home. Bishop Partridge and John Coral and others go back towards the temple property to their homes. The committee goes back to the citizens in the courthouse and start saying, okay, this is what's happened, there's a man in that group whose wife had just given birth to a child, healthy, both of them, which wasn't always the case, right, in those days. Who was the midwife? Sally Phelps. He sneaks out of the meeting, even though he's a member of the mob, he sneaks out of the meeting, goes down, and tells Phelps what's happening, that they were going to be here very soon. Feltz takes some copies of the Book of Commandments. John Whitmer, who's there, grabs Revelation Book 1 that they're using to print the Book of commandments.
Starting point is 01:14:29 They take off, leaving the children in the care of Sally. She starts dressing them. The littlest one, James is sick. She prepares to ride off in a wagon when they knock at the door. She was threatened with death if she didn't get out and leave immediately. In the bustle, according to family sources, she inadvertently left two of her sons, Waterman and Henry, in the building. The mob rushed up the outside stairs to the second story. Once inside, several men pushed or lifted the press,
Starting point is 01:15:03 which weighed several hundred pounds, across the floor and out the door and onto the ground. They threw out all the other stuff, such as paper and type and tools, printed materials, throwing out the signature seats of the Book of Commandments. Meanwhile, a separate group went into the house downstairs, ransacked the home, threw all the furnishings into the street. Then in a final act of destruction, a human wrecking crew de-roofs the building, demolishes the walls, and turns everything into a heap of rubble. Mary Rollins, remember who's staying with the Gilberts, and her little sister Caroline, are watching from across the street through a fence. Mary, who's 14, says, I'm determined to have some of them, meaning the Book of Commandments. My sister said she would go,
Starting point is 01:15:55 but added, they'll kill us. When the men's backs are turned, they dart out and grab a bunch of those sheets and take off for a nearby cornfield. It's a very famous story that we love to tell. What we don't tell is that there was also a boy there, 20-year-old man named John Taylor, not the John Taylor, but John Taylor, who also did it, who also grabbed some stuff and ran off. But since so many stories in church history about men, we'll just leave it with the two sisters, right? They risked their lives, literally, and lay down on them in the cornfield and saved them. Do you know what I love about this, Derek? This is the same Mary Rollins who goes up to Isaac Morley.
Starting point is 01:16:35 Can I borrow your book Mormon? And he says, I haven't had a chance to read it. Okay, you can have it overnight. I mean, I've seen the video depiction of this. She is up most of the night reading it with Sidney Gilbert, who becomes a convert. what I love about this, she loves books. Now what is she seeing? This potential book being thrown out there in the street. She already has a love for the scriptures. She sees that. What is it that you said? She said to her little sister. I am determined to have some of them. I just think,
Starting point is 01:17:07 whoa, that's a connection there. Yeah, let's connect it even further. The saints would often meet in the Gilbert home at the store, right? It was a convenient place. W.W. Phelps would often print some of the revelations, which they called commandments in those days. They would sit and read them together. Someone starts speaking in tongues, and Mary translates. She's got the gift. She has this amazing experience. Again, she's 13 or 14 when that happens. This is a young girl who loves God's word and is willing to sacrifice for it. And she's Sidney Gilbert's niece that's living in Sidney Gilbert's home and store. When that's over, meaning the destruction of the press,
Starting point is 01:17:52 they march up to the Sydney Gilbert store. Sidney Gilbert somehow persuades them that he will close it, he'll ship all the goods away, he won't reopen it if they just won't destroy it. So they don't. Another group had been sent out to go find the other church leader that had gone back towards the temple lot, and Oliver Cowdery and William McClellan,
Starting point is 01:18:15 who they had not been able to find. Who they do find is Edward Partridge. And let's again take it from his words. I was taken from my house by the mob, George Simpson being their leader, who escorted me about a half mile to the courthouse on the public square of independence. So right across the street from the Gilbert store.
Starting point is 01:18:36 And then and there, a few rods from the courthouse. I was surrounded by hundreds of the mob. I was stripped of my hat, coat, and vest, and dobed with tar from head to foot, and then had a quantity of feathers put upon me. Of course, this also happens to Charles Allen, who is not one of the church leaders, but who just happens to get caught. And all this, because I would not agree to leave the county and my home where I had lived for two years. Before tarring and feathering me, I was permitted to speak. I told them that the saints had suffered persecution in all ages of the world, that I had done nothing with which
Starting point is 01:19:14 ought to offend anyone, that if they abused me, they would abuse an innocent person, and that I was willing to suffer for the sake of Christ, but to leave the county, I was not willing to consent to it. By this time, the multitude made so much noise that I could not be heard. Some were cursing and swearing, saying, call upon your Jesus. Others were equally noisy and trying to still the rest of them, that they might be able to hear what I was saying. Until after, I had spoken, I knew not what they intended to do with me, whether to kill me, to whip me, or what else I knew not. I bore my abuse with so much resignation and meekness that it appeared to astound the multitude, who permitted me to retire in silence, many looking very solemn,
Starting point is 01:20:03 their sympathies having been touched as I thought. And as to myself, I was so filled with the spirit and the love of God that I had no hatred towards my persecutors. or anyone else. It seems his resignation and his humility, as we talked about earlier, in receiving this trial, that seems to diffuse the situation for the next few days. By the way, according to the family sources, two men going through the rubble of the print shop find the two kids unhurt but stuck under rubble and get them back to the Phelpses. To me, Bishop Partridge is a perfect example of someone who's not perfect, but in the moment, he is a perfect disciple of Jesus Christ.
Starting point is 01:20:56 Coming up in part two of this episode. And I was explaining the story, explaining what had happened here, all the difficulty, all of that. The gentleman gets out of his house and gets on his four-wheeler and starts speeding down to us. I'm like, oh, well, I'm going to give them a real Missouri experience. I'm like gathering together. We're in six cars.
Starting point is 01:21:20 I'm like, okay, everybody starts getting into our cars. He starts waving us down. And I'm thinking, oh, boy, you know, here we go.

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