followHIM - Easter Part 1 • Sister Reyna I. Aburto • Mar 25 - Mar 31 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

He is risen! Sister Reyna Aburto explores the glory and wonder of the Resurrection and how grief is an essential part of life.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM13ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM13FRSpanish: tinyurl.com/podcastBM13ESPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM13PTYOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/j79zoX16fTAALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast00:00 Part 1–Sister Reyna Aburto00:42 What to expect in this episode01:15 Introduction of Sister Aburto02:15 Consecrating Your Life Podcast by Reyna Aburto and Elena Aburto03:03 What is resurrection?05:18 Alma 11:42 Resurrection08:16 President Nelson’s “The Doors of Death”11:36 Sister Aburto’s “The Grave Has No Victory”12:08 Sister Aburto shares the story of her brother’s death19:27 Hank shares a story about his mom’s recent passing23:50 Work continues on both sides of the veil24:58 Sister Nelson teaches ancestors are part of teaching the gospel with missionaries25:46 Moses 4:2 Death and resurrection are part of the plan26:18 Moses 3:16-17 “Choose for thyself”28:01 Moses 5:9-10 Jesus’s sacrifice and agency31:35 Isaiah 25:8, Isaiah 61:1-4 Jesus’s purpose33:20 Luke 1-4, Isaiah 61 Jesus describes himself in the Old Testament35:18 John 11 Jesus raises Lazarus37:00 Jesus prepared his followers for his death39:09 President Nelson teaches about the witnesses of the resurrected Jesus41:00 Jesus teaches one by one and appears in the Americas44:56 Hank shares a story about the temple and Jesus47:12 Peter as a witness of Jesus Christ48:26 Elder Wirthlin “Sunday Will Come” and John Hilton on followHIM51:48 Finding Strength in the Lord: Emotional Resilience52:41 Sister Aburto shares a story about dancing with her father54:09 “Mourning with Hope” by Hank Smith57:25 Grief doesn’t have a timeline59:27 End of Part 1 - Sister Reyna AburtoThanks to the follow HIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name's Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my marvelous co-host, John, by the way, and our guest, Sister Raina Alberto. John, let me talk to you first here. It is Easter here at Follow Him. When Easter comes to your mind, what do you think of, John? I always think of the song, He is Risen. That's like the Christmas carol of Easter. Right. I always think of that happy morning, Easter morning. Yeah, I think of springtime and color, everything coming back to life. Everything that looked dead is coming back to life. Sister Roberto, we're so glad you're here. What are we going to look at today?

What do you want to go through? Well, today we're going to talk about how the resurrection is such an essential part of the plan of salvation. And also, we are going to talk about how to have a healthy perspective on grief after a big loss in our lives. I'm really looking forward to this because of both of those reasons. One, the joy that comes from the resurrection. How can it be joyful if we don't embrace or at least experience the grief, the darkness? The light means so much more when you've sat in the dark for a while. Now, John, we've never had Sister Alberto on our podcast, but she is not new to any of our listeners. We better introduce her though,

because we introduce all our guests. That's right. And I'm sure a lot of our listeners. We better introduce her though, because we introduce all our guests. That's right. And I'm sure a lot of our listeners are excited and thinking, I've seen her before. And I remember a conference talk she gave. So sister Reina Alberto was born in Nicaragua. She's married to Carlos. They have three children and three grandchildren. Reina studied industrial engineering in Nicaragua, holds a degree in computer science from Utah Valley University. She's an institute instructor. She owns a translation business with her husband, and she served as the second counselor in the General Relief Society presidency, and as a member of the primary general board. Right now, she's serving on the Correlation Materials Evaluation Committee at Church HQ. I've always wanted to say HQ. That just sounds cool.

Raina is a member of several governing boards. She's the author of Reaching for the Savior. I have that book right there. I'm excited to let people know about a podcast that she has with her daughter called Consecrating Your Life. Yeah. And by the way, she's right here with me. Elena is her name. Did you say it's kind of for young adults, for everybody, but emphasizing young adults? Yes. Trying to help them see that everything good that we do to build the kingdom of God on the earth, we are consecrating our life. I am looking it up right now, John, on my Apple podcast. I can see it right here. So all I have to do is click on it and I can hit follow. And now I am following the Consecrating Your Life podcast, Elena Alberto and Raina Alberto. There's 49 episodes here to look at, John, all five-star in. I'm going to read from the Come Follow Me manual. The ancient apostles were bold in their testimonies of Jesus Christ and his resurrection.

Millions of people believe in Jesus Christ and try to follow him. I like that part. Because of their words recorded in the Bible. Yet some people might wonder, if Jesus Christ is really the savior of the world, then why were his eyewitnesses limited to a handful of people in one small region? The Book of Mormon stands as an additional convincing witness that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, manifesting himself unto all nations and offering salvation to all who come unto him. In addition, the second witness also makes it clear what salvation means. This is why Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, and all the prophets labored so diligently to engraven these words upon plates to declare to future generations that they too knew of Christ and had a hope of his glory.

This Easter season, reflect on the testimonies in the Book of Mormon that the Savior's power is both universal and personal, redeeming the whole world and redeeming you. Wow, that is fantastic. Sister Roberto, it is Easter. Follow him. Where do you want to take us? Well, I think that we can start with the definition of what resurrection is, so it's clear for us. I went to guide to the scriptures, and this is what it says in there. It says, resurrection is the reuniting of the spirit body with the physical body of flesh and bones after death. After resurrection, the spirit and body will never again be separated. Isn't that

beautiful to know? And the person will become immortal. Every person born on earth will be resurrected because Jesus Christ overcame death. Jesus Christ was the first person to be resurrected on this earth. The New Testament gives ample evidence that Jesus rose with his physical body. His tomb was empty. He ate fish and honey. He had a body of flesh and bones. People touched him, and the angel said he had risen.

Latter-day revelation confirms the reality of the resurrection of Christ and of all mankind. I think it's such a beautiful blessing that we have to be able to read all these testimonies about him. In fact, in the Book of Mormon in Alma 11, we read something that Alma also says, starting in verse 42, he says, Now there is a death which is called a temporal death, and the death of Christ shall lose the bands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death. The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form. Both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we know are at this time. And we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt. I think this is such a beautiful passage of scripture because it tells us that everything will be restored to its perfect form.

And then he says, Now this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous, and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost, but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arranged before the bar of Christ the Son and God the Father and the Holy Spirit, which is one eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be be restored to its perfect frame. Not even one hair will be lost. So all of those people that probably starting to lose their hair and or maybe someone who

has an illness that they have been suffering for a long time and they cannot see the end of it, or if you may have lost a limb or something in your body, we actually lose energy and strength as we age. Reina, you said that those of us who might be losing our hair, I've noticed there's three of us on this podcast, and one of us has amazing hair. Maybe John was like, and who is it? I can't tell. I think you're absolutely right.

I'm in my middle 40s. My spirit still feels young, but then this body, all of a sudden the knee starts to hurt. And I think, wow, this might hurt forever. Yes. It gives us hope that we are going to be restored. I love that word, restoration. We know about that word in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, which means that things will be renewed. They will be made new again.

Yeah, I like that the resurrection is so much more than a healing. When we talk about Lazarus was raised from the dead, so his body and spirit were reunited. But the definition that you read is never again to be divided. So it's a renewed body. And I love the idea of resurrection is a restoration, like you said So it's a renewed body. And I just love the idea of resurrection is a restoration, like you said. It's the ultimate healing. We're so grateful that the Savior knows how to heal and even can heal death. Gives us such hope, all of us. Yes. In fact, I found this beautiful thought from President Nelson from a message that he gave,

I believe in 1992 or something like that. It's called The Doors of Death. And he says, the very laws that could not allow a broken body to survive here are the same eternal laws which the Lord will employ at the time of the resurrection, when that body shall be restored to its proper and perfect frame. He said, the Lord who created us in the first place surely has power to do it again. The same necessary elements now in our bodies will still be available at his command. The same unique genetic code now embedded in each of our living cells will still be available to form new ones then. The miracle of the resurrection, wondrous as it will be,

is marvelously matched by the miracle of our creation in the first place. Isn't that beautiful how he connects the process of our creation to the process of our resurrection? He's saying that the Lord is going to use the same elements and the same power and the same power and the same genetic code that he used to create us. I think this is such a beautiful image that he's giving us. This reminds me of something Elder Joseph B. Worthland said. I'm sure both of you remember him. This is way back in 2001. I never thought I'd say that, way back in 2001. This is what he said. He said, in my younger

days, I love to run. Although it may be hard for you to believe it, I did. Those of you who don't know what President Worthen looks like, you can go back and look. He's shuffled up to the podium at General Conference. He says, although it may be hard for you to believe it, I did. And I did win a few races. I'm not so fast anymore. In fact, I'm not sure how well I would do in a race if the only contestants were members of the Quorum of the Twelve. He says, my ability to run is not so swift now. While I'm looking forward to that future time when, with a resurrected body, I can once again sprint over a field and feel the wind blowing through my hair. I do not dwell on the fact that I cannot do it now. That would be unwise. Instead, I take the

steps I can take. Even with the limitations of age, I can still take one step at a time. To do what I can is all my Heavenly Father now requires of me. And it is all He requires of you, regardless of your disabilities, limitations, or insecurities. So I think you're right, Sister Roberto. We look forward to that day, but we realize we're not there yet. Yes, but we have that hope. And that's what we're talking about today, about the hope of the resurrection, to know that we'll be reunited with all our family members who have passed, and we will be in a perfect state. It's going to be different. President Nelson said, if he can create us once and our bodies are miraculous,

then he can create us again. So even though we may be breaking down in this way and that, there's that hope that, oh, he can do this again and all things will be made new again. I love that Alma taught that so specifically in Alma 11 that you read. It gives a lot of people a lot of hope. And I remember a lot of my balding seminary teachers always kind of quoted that one and laughed about it. Do you remember that, Hank? Now, Sister Roberto, I have to say that I did not know you were in the manual for this week's lesson when I invited you to come on the show. So it's just a wonderful coincidence that under the ideas for learning at home and at church,

they say to see also, reina i aberto, the grave has no victory. I went there and I looked at this talk and you tell a story about when you were nine years old and what happened to you then. I was hoping maybe you could tell that story here. Christmas was coming. And you can imagine at that age, it's kind of magical because you know that it means that special day in which we feel that special spirit. It really permeates throughout the whole world. Everywhere in the world, people feel different around that time of the year because we are all thinking about the Savior, about his birth.

I was really anticipating the day that Christmas will be here, and it was just a few days away. I went to sleep that night. It was December 22nd of 1972. Actually, I had a brother and a little sister. She was just a baby, but my brother slept like his bed was right next to mine. How old was he? You were nine? He was?

He was 10, 10 and a half. Yeah, we were very close. We went to sleep and then all of a sudden I woke up and I felt like I was in the middle of a nightmare. Everything was so dark that I couldn't move. I was trapped from the waist down. And then I honestly thought that it was a nightmare. Everything was so dark that I couldn't move. I was trapped from the waist down. And then I honestly thought that it was a nightmare. I could hear people screaming in the distance and asking for help. And then I realized that one of them was my mother, actually, that was asking the neighbors to help her so she could take us out from the robot. I don't know how much time

it passed. It was probably an hour or two. I really don't know because you lose track of time when you're in a nightmare. And then they were able to take me out. Actually, what saved me is that I have a piece of furniture similar to this. You know, it was like a drawer. And I think it kind of created that triangle of life that they talk about. And that's why I was able to breathe. They took me out to the street and maybe half an hour later, I really don't know how long they took my brother, but he was already dead. Of course, everything looked so different.

Our house just came down instantly because it was made of adobe. It was a house that my grandparents had built years before. It took me a while to realize that it was real. Maybe a few days. I was in shock and I couldn't believe what had happened. In a way, I think that being in shock is kind of a protection so our mind can process reality. And I even remember that when Christmas finally came, my aunt gave me a present that she had for me. When I saw that present, I didn't know what was happening. And I told her, why are you giving me this? Is it my birthday? And she said, no, it's Christmas. I didn't know what was happening. And I told her, why are you giving me this? Is it my birthday?

And she said, no, it's Christmas. I totally forgot that it was Christmas time. I was in such a state of, I don't know what I had to call it. It was just a shock. Back then, we were not members of the church. I didn't know many things that I know now. As a nine-year-old, of course, I had all these questions. I really wanted to know

where my brother was because we were very close. We were good friends and we grew up together, but I didn't know where he was. It was about a year after he died that I started having this, I don't know how to call it. It was probably like a daydream. It was like wishful thinking. I would think about him. I will imagine that he will come to our door and then I will open the door and he will tell me, guess what? I'm not dead. I'm alive. But I wasn't in a place where I could not really come to you.

But now I'm back and I will never leave again. That thinking, having that image and that hope helped me cope with the grief and the pain of losing my brother at that early age. And this happened many times that I would sit in the living room and stare at the door, hoping that that will happen. I never told anybody about that. I grew up, when I was 26, I was already living in San Francisco, California. I joined the church. I never told anybody that it was probably around 40 years after that earthquake that one day around Easter time, I was in my kitchen doing the dishes. And then I started thinking about the resurrection and what the Lord has done for us. And then I started thinking about him. His name is Noel. It finally hit me, and I realized that that experience that I had, it was really a revelation. It was a way for God to assure that little girl that I would see my brother again one day, and that he's still alive. He's in a place where I cannot see him right now.

But one day we will be reunited again and then we will never be separated. It finally hit me that it was not a silly thing. I never told anybody because I thought it was silly. But then I realized that it was actually a tender mercy from the Lord to me at that young age. After I gave that message in general conference, one day it also hit me that having that experience actually prepared me

and allowed me to witness to the whole world that I had that hope, that I had that assurance, and that I know that one day we will all be resurrected, including those family members that have left already, including my brother Noel. And I know that I will see him again because we have witnesses in the scriptures. The Spirit has testified to us of this truth. And I believe, I believe that it will happen. Did you ever think, here's this nine-year-old girl suffering this tragedy and then years later, she's testifying to millions. That was right during the pandemic, right?

That conference? Yes, it was in April 2021. We were still in the middle of the pandemic. And with the pandemic, what happened is that the church actually went and hired several TV channels and all different kinds of media to be able to broadcast the General Conference to the whole world. And that session specifically was Sunday morning and it was Easter Sunday. That particular General Conference edition went to so many people around the world. They keep adding more every time. It keeps going to more corners of the world, but that one was kind of special because it was Easter

Sunday. And I don't know if you remember, but all the people that spoke in that session, except for, of course, for President Nelson, we were all from different continents and countries. We were all foreigners. We were not U.S. born, even the ones that offered the prayers. It was very special, very special to be part of that. That is fantastic. Knowing the story now and picturing that little nine-year-old girl in the middle of that earthquake, it really touches me.

I want to read your closing quote. The Grave Has No Victory, April 21 General Conference. You said, I testify that through the redeeming atonement and glorious resurrection of Jesus Christ, broken hearts can be healed. Anguish can become peace and distress can become hope. He can embrace us in his arms of mercy, comforting, empowering, and healing each of us. It meant a lot to me then, but it means more to me now. I really felt the embrace of the Savior with that experience and all the things that I learned from that. The fact that years later, he extended his arms of mercy to me, inviting me to join the church.

That was the greatest gift that I could have received years later. I love the story. I think how different life would be if we didn't have that expectation of this time is temporary. We will have our loved ones again. Life would be so different and dismal, but there's such hope because our separation is temporary and how that much it must have changed your life. I've had loved ones die and I've had so many dreams that suddenly they just walked in the house and to hear you think about watching the door, oh my goodness, what a difference it makes to know

this is the middle part. There's more coming and it gives us something to look forward to on the other side. Yes, for sure. For sure. John, with that word expectation, you think a lot like Joseph Smith. He said, more painful to me are the thoughts of annihilation than death. If I have no expectation, I like that word, John. It's not a hope. It's not a wish.

If I have no expectation of seeing my father, mother, brothers, sisters, and friends again, my heart would burst in a moment and I should go down to my grave. The expectation, there it is again, of seeing my friends in the morning of the resurrection cheers my soul and makes me bear up against the evils of life. It is like they're taking a long journey, and on their return, we meet them with increased joy. Wow. I love that image. I can see myself embracing all of them, each of them. What a beautiful feeling. Yes. My mother died recently, and I walked over and put my hand on her hand as she lay in the casket. You both have had this experience where you think,

that's not my mom. That's not my friend. That's not my loved one. One day, we have the expectation that hand will be warm again and will reach out in love. I have to tell you that a couple of nights before my mom passed away, we were talking and she couldn't talk very loudly. She was just a little bit of a whisper, but she asked me, what do you think it's like to die? And I said, I don't know. I've never done it. But I told her a story that came to my mind. And I bet both of you have heard this. This is President Nelson at RootsTech years ago talked about his great-grandfather appearing to his grandfather. He says this, and I didn't have the story with me. I just had to paraphrase it for my mom, but I looked it up here.

He says, when my grandfather Nelson was a young husband and father, just 27 years old, his father died. Then about three months later, his father, now deceased, came to visit him. The date of that visit was April 6th, 1891. Grandfather Nelson was so impressed by his father's visit, as you might imagine, that he wrote it down in his journal. And then President Nelson quotes directly from the journal. I was in bed when Father entered the room. He came and sat on the side of the bed. He said, Son, I had a few minutes and I received permission to come and see you.

I'm feeling well, Son. I've had very much to do since I died. He asks, What have you been doing, Father? He said, I've been traveling with Apostle Erastus Snow. I received my commission to preach the gospel. You cannot imagine, son, how many spirits there are in this world that have not yet received the gospel, but many are receiving it and a great work is being accomplished. A little bit later in their conversation, the son asks, father, what is it like to die?

And he says, oh, it's just as natural to die as it was to be born. It's like you passing through that door. He pointed to a door. I told my mom that story. She closed her eyes and said, oh, that sounds nice. And then she ended up passing away the next day. That's so sweet. One other thing that you might like, just out of nowhere, as I was sitting by her, she said, you know, I hope your dad is young when I see him. He was so good looking when he was young. Well, I hope so. I hope so too, mom. She was already having that expectation, right? She had that expectation that she was going to see him.

Yeah, that's beautiful. That's very sweet. I love the idea that the work goes on on the other side and that he was busy. It kind of makes me tired to hear that. I guess we're not floating around playing harps, but we're busy. My dad, before he passed away, this was a few years before he passed away, but I can't remember the exact occasion, but he asked me to give him a blessing. And I got to give my dad a blessing. And when I said, amen, he turned around and looked at me and

said, John, I think I'm going to hell. And I was like, dad. And he said to teach. And I was like, oh, okay. That's pretty good. You got me there. So he's in the hell spirit prison mission right now. He and my mom are the office couple. They're having a great time. The work goes on and it sounds like it's vigorous and they're engaged and doing wonderful things. And probably for that, I think they expect us to mourn. But it's so nice to know that, oh, they're involved and they're doing wonderful things. It's nice to have that expectation. Yes. That reminds me also, I think that same root stack. Sister Nelson actually said that she always tells the missionaries that when they are teaching someone, when they are teaching a family, it's not just

them in that room, but also the ancestors of that family or that person and the ancestors of the missionary are present there. All of them are trying to help bring that spirit of Elijah, help those people feel that spirit so they can accept the gospel. I thought that was so beautiful. And then it made me think about my brother, my brother Noel, that I was thinking, maybe he helped me also soften my heart to the gospel when it was my turn. That was a beautiful thing that she said. It's real that they are closer to us than we think. Even beginning with the counsel in heaven, we read about that in Moses 4,

when the Lord God said, Behold, my beloved son, which was my beloved and chosen from the beginning, said unto me, Father, thy will be done, and the glory of thy time forever. And then he decided to send Jesus Christ, which is his beloved, so he could redeem us. It was from the beginning that all of this plan of salvation was already there from Heavenly Father.

Death and resurrection were part of that plan. If we go to Moses 3, when Adam and Eve are in the Garden of Eden, we read in verses 16 and 17 that the Lord God told them, He commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat of it. Nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself what it is given unto thee,

but remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. He gave this commandment not to eat of the tree. Heavenly Father gave them the option. They could choose. They had their agency and he respected it. But he tells them that if they eat of the fruit, they will surely die, which means that they will become mortals. That was all part of that plan. And then we know that they eat of the fruit, they will surely die, which means that they will become mortals. That was all part of that plan. And then we know that they eat of the fruit, they became mortals. Reina, are you telling us we signed up for this? Is that what you're saying?

I guess so. It was a decision that they made so they could have children and they could be on this earth and we could be mortals. Death is part of that. It's not an afterthought. It was part of the plan from the beginning. Now, if we go to Moses 5 and we read that part when we know that an angel came to them and asked Adam why he was offering sacrifices. We read it in here that it says, And the angel spake, saying,

This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the only begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth. Wherefore thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore. The sacrifice of the Savior, that was a symbolism of that. And then he says and in that day the holy ghost fell upon adam which beareth record of the father and the son saying i am the only begotten of the father from the beginning henceforth and forever that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed and all mankind even as many as will from the beginning this was part of the plan

and i just love these words from adam and eve where they rejoice in knowing that the plan of salvation was going to pass and in that day adam blessed god and was filled and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying, Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God. And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying, Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have had known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption,

and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters. Again, they just rejoiced knowing that this plan had started and that they would have been able to be part of it. I'd love to think that everything is connected. In the premortal world, the plan was presented and we had the creation and then we had the fall. And then we came to this earthly life, to this mortal state, and then we're going to die. We're going to resurrect because of Jesus Christ, and then we will be judged,

and then we'll receive a degree of glory. And all of this is called the plan of salvation, the plan of happiness, the plan of mercy, the plan of redemption. The resurrection is just part of it and it's necessary. And for it to happen, we need to die first. So it's all connected. We see this also beautifully in the temple. When we go to participate in an endowment ceremony, the plan of salvation is presented to us, and we understand the important role that Jesus Christ had in all of it. That is the essential part of it. I love the idea of knowing, okay, we are in a fallen world and we have mortal bodies that are going to have problems and get sick and have maladies and have all sorts of aches and pains. And that's part of it. It's nice to know that and then to know there's a purpose for all of this.

And it's temporary. I like that you read that I like to share these verses sometimes at marriage seminars because listen to Adam because of my transgression my eyes are open in this life I shall have joy and again in the flesh I shall see God and Eve his wife

heard all these things was glad saying we're not for our transgression we never should have had seed never should have known good and evil and the joy of our redemption and eternal life, which God gives them, all be obedient. And she sees the broader, we did this together. I like that Adam's thinking of himself and Eve's going, this was the two of us doing this.

I don't know if you'd ever noticed that before, but it makes me smile a little bit to see. It's beautiful that they actually counseled together, right? They made the decision together, and it was beautiful to think about that. And we can apply that in marriage and in every relationship. Yes. I would like to read in Isaiah 25, verse 8. He says, He will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces. And the rebuke of his people shall he take away from all the earth, for the Lord hath spoken it.

And then again, in Isaiah 61, this is one of my favorite passages of scripture, because he's telling us what the Lord will come to do. When we read the first four verses, he says that the spirit what the Lord will come to do. When we read the first four verses, he says that the spirit of the Lord God is upon me, and this is a prophecy about the Savior, because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek. He hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord and the day of the prison to them that are bound, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all that mourn, to appoint unto them that mourning Zion,

to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness, that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Savior is, that he comes to mend, to give us beautiful ashes, and to give us glory, even from this mortal state in which we are right now. There is hope. There is hope for better things to come because of him. I love those verses. Luke chapter 1, we have the story of Zacharias and Elizabeth and John the Baptist. Luke chapter 2, we have our beautiful Christmas story. And at the end, Jesus increased in wisdom and stature.

Luke chapter 3, we had Jesus' baptism. And then in Luke chapter 4, Jesus goes home where he was brought up. And he goes to the synagogue it says as was his custom and I've always thought if you could pick one verse for the old testament to describe what the savior does in his role what would you pick and I wouldn't even know what to pick and then I say we don't have to because Jesus chose the verses he chose Isaiah 61 and he went to the synagogue and the minister handed him a scroll. One of the questions we've got to ask our scholars, Hank, is did he pick the scroll, or did they hand

him one? I don't know. But he opened Isaiah, and verse 18, this is Luke 4. So you read Isaiah 61, and this is where he reads it again. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he hath anointed me, Messiah means anointed one, to preach the gospel to the poor. He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted of all of the things the Savior could have emphasized. He could have said something about justice or law or commandments, but he came to say, I came to heal broken hearts. Isn't that beautiful? And then he gave the book back to the minister, sat down, and they all waited for him to make a comment on it, which was the custom as I understand it.

And he just said, this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. Whoa, what a moment when he's like, that's me. I've come to heal the brokenhearted, preach deliverance to captives, recovering of sight to the blind, set at liberty them that are bruised. So I'm glad you brought that verse up because that, I think, that's the Savior choosing the verse out of the Old Testament to describe his mission. Yes. And he has the power to do all of that.

You know, he indeed has the power to do all of that. You know, he indeed has the power. And then we read about his life in the New Testament and all the miracles that he performed. And then we know that towards the end of his ministry, he starts preparing his apostles and his followers for his death and resurrection. And he kind of explains to them, but they don't understand. And then we read about this beautiful story of Martha, Mary, and Lazarus, and how the Lord loved them so much. But then as the Lord is in a different city, Lazarus gets sick and he dies. The word is brought to the Savior, but he kind of waits a few days to come back. And then when he comes back, Martha comes to him first. And in a way,

she's telling him, if you had been here, this would have not happened. My brother would have not died. And then I love what he tells her. He says, thy brother shall rise again. When I read this, I think about my own brother, my grandma, my father, and all of those that have passed away. He's telling us that they will rise again. Martha says, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection on the last day. And then Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? He has a similar interaction with Mary,

and then he performs that miracle that he brings Lazarus to life again. That was a symbolism of his own death and resurrection, what happened to Lazarus. And then we know that not too long after that, the Lord goes through his suffering in Gethsemane, and He's imprisoned, and He's judged, and He's crucified. And then He died on the cross. And I can't even imagine how His followers felt at that point. It must have been so hard for them, because even though He tried to prepare them, I don't think they were prepared. Then we read about what happened after he died, that they had the desire to minister to him, even in death, after he was dead. Joseph of Arimathea, he actually begged Pilate to give him

the body, and he actually goes and takes him down. And even Nicodemus comes, and he brings oils and spices because he wants to help prepare the body. Joseph takes the body to his new tomb that he had just carved from a rock mountain. The women, we read in Scripture, it actually says that they had ministered to him and they had followed him. They wanted to know where they would put the body because they wanted to go and prepare the body after the Sabbath. And they did that.

They waited the whole day for the Sabbath. And then early in the morning, the next day, they bring all these spices and these oils to prepare the body. And that's when they realized that he's not there, that the tomb is open and he's not there. They go and they tell the apostles. A few apostles come and they also witnessed the fact that the body was not there. They go and they tell the apostles. A few apostles come and they also witnessed the fact that the body was not there, but everybody lives and just Mary Magdalene stays.

She was weeping right there by the tomb. And then a man comes and she thinks this is the gardener. And he asked her why she was weeping. And I love this part because if we think about it, the Lord already knew why she was weeping, but he actually let her express her feelings. She let her mourn. And I think that's beautiful to think about that. Then from that point on, the Lord actually appeared to many, many people. There are so many witnesses

of the resurrected Christ. In this book from President Nelson that I have that is called Teachings of Russell M. Nelson, he actually lists all the different witnesses that actually saw the resurrected Christ. For example, he says that Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene, then he appeared to other women, and then to two disciples that were walking on the road, and then he appeared to Simon Peter, and later that evening he appeared to ten apostles. Eight days later he appeared again to the apostles,

and this time Thomas was present. Then he appeared to eleven disciples at the Sea of Galilee, and then he spoke to 11 disciples on a mountain in Galilee. And then he was also seen by 500 brethren at once. And after that, he was seen of James, then of all the apostles. So many appearances that he had. And then, of course, in the Book of Mormon, we know that he appeared to the Nephites by the temple. And it says here that at least 2,500 souls actually heard him, his voice, and felt the nail marks in his hands. Are they more than witnesses have attested to the resurrection of the Lord? Joseph Smith first saw the Savior in the sacred grove in the spring of 1820.

And then 12 years later, the Savior again revealed himself to Joseph and Sidney Rigdon, and then again in the Kirtland Temple in 1836. It's wonderful to think that so many were witnesses of the resurrected Christ, and that we can actually read their testimonies and their witness that they saw him. And that is the greatest evidence that he is the Messiah, that he is their Savior, our Savior and Redeemer, that he came to redeem us as part of that beautiful plan of salvation and redemption. I'm glad you mentioned that. I think it's fascinating. I mean, we're in a Book of Mormon year. So how is the resurrection in the Book of Mormon understood by those people compared to the mortal Christ ministering there, as we've talked about Lazarus and Mary? And here, the resurrected Christ comes to them, like you said, 2,500 people, and he invited them to come up one by one and feel his hands and his feet and his side.

Got out a calculator once and I thought, how long would this take? I just wondered what kind of a day that was. If I did my math right, if each person took 10 seconds of the 2,500 people, six people then in one minute, what I got was 6.94 hours if each person took 10 seconds. If each person took 15 seconds, and think about that, his hands and his feet and his side, what an invitation. Could have stood far and said, can everyone see me? Can you see from where you are?

But he wanted every single one of them to come up one by one, which teaches us something, doesn't it? So if each person took 15 seconds, exactly 10 hours. Imagine a community that has 2,500 people who have that kind of witness of the resurrection. I like to think, what would that do to a community? And the answer is fourth Nephi. The answer is there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of the Lord, right? What an amazing invitation for him to make sure every person could come. It took about four generations for things to start to go bad again. And I've always wondered if that's because, and I have no base.

This is just brother, by the way, guessing. I have no memory of my great grandparents, but I do remember my grandparents. And can you imagine if your grandparents said to you, Hank, I was there. I was there on that day and I waited in that line. I touched his hands. I touched his feet. I looked in his eyes. You would never forget that. Yes, it's something to think about. In a way, the Lord is still inviting us to come to him one by one. He's able to minister to us one by one also, and each of us can receive this testimony and this witness that he is the Savior. It's beautiful to think about the fact that he took all that time and that he didn't mind.

He actually let everyone come to him, actually thrust their hands into his side and feel the prints of the nails in his hands. And the result, like you said, it was that these people were faithful for generations. Long time ago, probably before Hank was born, I donated a kidney. I think my incision is, I don't know, maybe 10 inches long or something all around my left side. I haven't showed a lot of people my scar. The Lord desired to actually invite them to come and touch the wound in left side. I haven't showed a lot of people my scar. The Lord desired to actually invite them to come and touch the wound in his side. He really wanted them to know. And the level of kindness and trust, there's a level of intimacy there to come and see the wound in my side. Wow, that's amazing that the Savior of the world world the creator of the world would give that kind of

an invitation and i love the book of mormon story of how they witnessed their easter i mean the book of mormon has a really cool christmas story and sammy the lame and i third nephi one and it has a really unique easter story too in that part right there. Yes, and they are both connected in such a beautiful way because the reason why he was born is because he needed to come and die and resurrect after that. This discussion reminds me of, there was one time I was sitting in an endowment session. I was in the very back. Both of you know that if the session is quite

large, you're going to be waiting back there for quite a while as people go to the veil. And as I was sitting there and I was going, oh man, some people are going to be in their cars and back home and watching football by the time I get up there. And then I thought about that third Nephi 11 that you both brought up. I wouldn't have minded watching people go have their experience, and I wouldn't mind waiting for my experience. And I thought, how similar are these experiences? Thrusting your hand into his side, Raina, you said feeling the prints in his hands. And I thought, as people have their individual experience there, instead of being impatient, I can think how wonderful it will be when we do that

in the flesh, when we do it with the actual Lord. That shows the importance of every person, because we go there first to perform those ordinances in our behalf, our personal endowment. But then we do it for our ancestors, and we do it one by one. And each of them needs to go through everything, and their names need to be said out loud, because each of them is important. Each of us is important. That shows that it cannot be rushed. It has to be done one by one, one by one. I remember doing a baptism for the dead once for someone that I knew the backstory for. I was on a spiritual plateau for a couple of weeks after doing that baptism for the dead. And the thought occurred to me, every person has a story.

Every time we go, and it may seem like just a me, every person has a story. Every time we go and it may seem like just a name, but they have a story too. And they're important and the Lord wants them to have it one by one. It's kind of a fun thing to think about. Maybe we'll get those stories one day. Yes. So it's a realistic thing to think about that all of them probably had a difficult life or something difficult in their lives, and they need to be healed from that, and they need to come to the Savior in a more complete way. Reina, as you mentioned the many witnesses of the Lord, I thought of Peter specifically. When he's with the Lord, he is awesome, but he has some down moments. And then after the Savior dies, Peter gets stronger, where you would think, well, he's

supposed to get weaker. His Lord has died, but yet Peter goes back to Jerusalem and he's bearing his testimony to the very people who had Jesus killed. Isn't that what a witness of the resurrection can do? The story only makes sense if they really saw a resurrected Lord. Why would you get stronger rather than weaker at this down moment? You said they must have been devastated. I'm sure they were, but something turned that all around.

Yes. They had the knowledge. They knew at that point that he was certainly the Messiah and that he was a God because he was able to resurrect. And that same thing can happen to us as you've been telling us. Hank and Raina, you probably remember this. Somebody talked about that Saturday in between the events of the crucifixion on Friday and the resurrection on Sunday, that long Saturday and how we go through those Saturday times of maybe some confusion, some mourning. That was John Hilton III. Elder Worthland gave the talk, Sunday Will Come.

And Reina, you said earlier that it's important to talk about grief around Easter time. Yes, because I think that all of us have experienced or will experience death. Someone that we love or someone that we know, even our pets sometimes. We all have experienced loss in a way. We feel that pain and it's real. And we should not be ashamed or feel guilty if we have this time of mourning because it is part of who we are. And these are emotions that show that we actually loved the people and the person that has passed away. President Nelson, in that same talk called Doors of Death, he actually says, Irrespective of age, we mourn for those loved and lost.

Mourning is one of the deepest expressions of pure love. It is a natural response in complete accord with the divine commandment, thou shalt live together in love in so much that thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die. Moreover, we can't fully appreciate joyful reunions later without tearful separations now. The only way, and this is so profound, the only way to take sorrow out of death is to take love out of life. So the only way in which we will not feel sadness every time someone that we love passes away is if we don't love them. It's part of that love. And the interesting thing is that we all mourn our grief in a different way, and we need to respect how people grieve or mourn.

We cannot tell them to do it a certain way or to stop doing it, because it's just part of that relationship that they had with that person. They love them, and they miss them. When you mentioned that, Reina, there was one of those messages, little movies the church made. My memory is a father that lost a child. I was having such a hard time mourning and asked the Lord to take that pain away. Does this ring a bell? And the Lord said I could, but I'd have to take away the love. I'd have to take away the good memories that you have and that you cherish.

And I thought, wow, what an interesting way to look at it. Mourning is natural. It's appropriate. What did Alma the elder tell them at the waters of Mormon? As part of coming to the fold of God was to mourn with those that mourn and comfort those who stand in need of comfort. I thought that was so interesting. And can you read that line again, Reina? Yes. It actually says the only way to take sorrow out of death is to take love out of life. And that comes from President Nelson. So profound. Sometimes when we are trying to comfort someone that probably has

had a loss, we think that we need to tell them something to make them feel better or that we need to fix the situation. I think it's a natural tendency that we have that we want to help people and we want to fix whatever is wrong. When a child gets hurt, then we just put a Band-Aid, and we want for them to feel better. But sometimes in those situations, I think that it's better not to try to say anything. Maybe to hug them and tell them that we love them, that we feel for them, and that we are there for them if they want to talk about it. And we need to let people take their time to mourn and to grieve for that loss that they had. And actually, the church has this wonderful resource. It's called Finding

Strength in the Lord, Emotional Resilience. It's one of those self-reliance courses that the church has. It actually has a section about mourning and about grief. And it talks about that almost everyone will experience grief at some point in their lifetime, like we were saying, whether due to the death of a loved one or another loss or big life change, such as losing a job or a relationship. And then it talks about the different stages that we go through, different emotions that we feel as we mourn, and it talks about denial or anger or bargaining or sadness or acceptance. Many times it doesn't go in certain order, and many times we think that we already accepted the loss, but then we can go back again to that

same feelings that we had in the beginning. The important thing is to realize that mourning is a normal reaction from us because of the love that we feel. It doesn't really matter how long ago the loss happened. Just the other day, it was a Saturday morning, it was probably two Saturdays ago, we were listening to music in my house and all of a sudden all this came from the time of my father. He passed away 31 years ago. And as I was listening to that music, I could picture myself dancing with him because he actually taught me how to dance. I was thinking, when I go to the other side of the veil, I hope that I can dance with my father

again. And then tears came rolling down my face. He died 31 years ago, but I still miss him because I still love him. And it doesn't matter if it's been one month, two months, three years or 50 years. That feeling of loss is still there. And we need to accept our emotions and cope with them in a healthy way, not to make anybody feel guilty because they are mourning. And isn't it wonderful that we have an expectation of a reunion? And Hank, I know it comes up on my feed. There is a podcast called Why Religion? Hank, I think you just recorded one with them called Mourning with Hope. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, I was actually on the other side of the microphone, which was really weird, John. I was like, I'm not supposed to talk. You're supposed to talk. Did you miss me during that? I did. I was looking around,

missing your companion. A number of years ago, I wrote a chapter in a book called Morning with Hope. So the Why Religion team decided to highlight that article and just release that. That would really be special to me if anyone wanted to listen after this episode, of course. So you can just go to YouTube and go to Why Religion, the letter Y, not Y religion. You might get some other videos of you typing Y religion. Other podcasts. The letter Y religion. That chapter was the culmination of a couple of years study that I did on how Latter-day saints deal with death.

It's not that we don't mourn. That would be a myth. That would be a mistake to say, oh, my testimony means I don't need to mourn. So I called the chapter Mourning with Hope. The Follow Him podcast is a supporter of the Why Religion podcast. So we hope everyone will go check that out. A lot of our guests that we've had on our show have been on that one as well. Raina, I was going to tell you, as you talked about mourning with those who mourn, back in 2014, my mother-in-law, Marlene Savage, passed away.

We were all devastated. She's this incredible grandmother and mother. We were sitting there on a Saturday, a couple of days after she passed away, and we were kind of in shock. There, but not there. Well, all of a sudden, I hear my lawnmower start up, and I'm like, what is going on? I went out on the side door, and I looked out on my lawn, and there is my father, who has since passed away, mowing the lawn. And he saw me and waved and I waved back. I said, what are you doing? And he said, helping. He mowed the lawn, he edged the lawn, and then he got in his car and drove away. He didn't feel like it was time for him to come inside and fix it. There's nothing he could have said that would have fixed it.

What would Alma call that? Bore our burden that it may be light. Yeah. Well, that reminds me of the story of Jesus says to the woman, she hath done what she could. I remember a story, Hank, do you remember this one right now about somebody? It was repeated in general conference, but somebody who came and grabbed everybody's shoes and shined up all of the shoes before the funeral. The kids, the adults came in quietly, shined the shoes and left. That's beautiful to think that we can actually minister to people without saying a word. Your dad was loud with the lawnmower, right? But he didn't say a word.

He did it quietly. Yes, that is great. Going back to the story of Lazarus, even the Savior wept because when he saw Martha and Mary's sadness, they were sad because they loved their brother. And the Savior cried with them. He wept with them. He knew how to mourn. That's why it is a natural thing. It's a

normal thing to do. If someone is listening to this and they feel bad because they are mourning, that shows you love that person that left and that is part of this life. But there is hope because we mourn with hope and there is a difference when we have that hope that we are going to see them again because of the Savior. I was talking with a good friend the other day, and she said her father had passed away a couple of years ago, and she said, I should be better by now. Everyone else has gone on. Everyone else is doing great, and I should be better. And I like what you've said here, Reina. Let the process take its course for you personally. It's going to look different, right, for everyone?

Yes. We can be certain that the Lord is willing to help us heal from that and that He has the power to help us, but that doesn't mean that we are going to stop missing the person because it's a big loss. They are not with us. We want to have them with us, but they are not here. And it's hard to wait sometimes, but we have that hope. And that's what needs to help us. That's why having all these scriptures and these witnesses that talk about this and give us that assurance, it actually happened that the Lord was resurrected. And because of that, each of us will be resurrected. I love reading the words of the prophets in the scriptures. I'm always amazed to

see how well they understood the plan of salvation and how well they understood the role of the Savior and how each of them are always inviting us to come to him so we can actually be also his witnesses. That's fantastic. The first witness of the resurrection, Mary Magdalene, so distraught, weeping. And the first thing he says to her, woman, why weepest thou? In the sense of what is about to happen, that is such a perfect question. Why are you weeping? And then her whole world changes, our whole world changes when he calls her by name. Everybody's world, yeah. It was a great gift that he gave us, part of that work of our Heavenly Father to bring about the salvation and eternal life of all of us. It's just part of that perfect gift that he gave us. And everybody will receive that, as we read in the Scriptures. Everybody, every person will receive that gift of resurrection from the Savior.

Coming up in part two of this episode, you spent five years in the Relief Society General Presidency where you were around special witnesses, the apostles. It was wonderful to see the different personalities. And I always tell people, you will never guess who I think of course this is my personal opinion who I think is the funniest of all of them and I honestly believe that it's...