followHIM - Genesis 12-17, Abraham 1-2 -- Part 2 : Dr. Jennifer C. Lane

Episode Date: February 6, 2022

Dr. Jennifer Lane continues and relates how covenants with the Lord bless the entire human family through sacrifice. We also discuss “cutting a covenant,” the essential nature of the temple, and how our Kinsman-Redeemer will consecrate every loss for our benefit. Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers/SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsKrystal Roberts: French TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. Okay, so we're going to switch books now. We're going to go to Genesis. We have the biblical account of Abraham. And what we're going to see here is the articulation of the covenant is spread out over multiple chapters. You're going to see it in chapter 12. You can see it in chapter 13, chapter 15 and 17.. And of course, we know that these are texts that were compiled later. And so there's one dimension of why things are spread out. But another thing I

think can help us make sense is our own experience with the New and Everlasting Covenant is we make this multiple times. It's extended over time. We have the covenant at baptism, then we have the covenant at endowment. In fact, I've got this great quote from President Harold B. Lee where he taught that the endowment expands the gospel path we started at baptism. He says, the receiving of the endowment requires the assuming of obligations by covenants, which are in reality but an embodiment or an unfolding of the covenants each person should have assumed at baptism. It's a restatement of a covenant, but it's just slowed down. And it's more precise. It's more articulated. I love that unfolding.

It's an unfolding of all of the things we promised in baptism, we're promising again with the covenants we make in the endowment, but they're being expanded. The promise of exaltation is even more explicit, of course, in temple marriage, but all of them are kind of implied. If we're faithful, we receive all the Father hath. One way to think about the statements and the experiences in chapter 12, chapter 13, chapter 15, chapter 17 are covenant renewal experiences. In fact, we have covenant renewal experiences every Sunday. Because when we take the sacrament, we're not doing it vicariously.

We are covenanting. This is us promising again. And so the fact that the Lord is restating his promises to Abraham at different points, I think might be part of it is it's different stages of receiving the blessings. Part of it is just a renewal, that it's okay to have a covenant renewal. I think it's helpful to have covenant renewal. So, promises we're going to see is, of course, posterity. That's super famous, right? The stars of the sea, the dust of the earth, countless posterity, a promised land. We're going to see blessings,

a relationship, almost this language of adoption again, that he's going to take him to be sort of his God. And all of these blessings are going to have specific fulfillment and mortality, but really important for us is remembering they also point to the eternal blessings of exaltation. So, the covenant blessings are the blessings of being able to inherit celestial kingdom to receive exaltation, even though they may have immediate earthly fulfillment as well. You talked about all of these chapters kind of are continually restating the Abrahamic covenant. I think we usually look at Genesis 12 verses like two and three as here's the Abrahamic covenant.

I love that because I think the Lord is into repetition and we need it. We need repetition. And so we do things again and again, and I'm intrigued with what the Lord wants us to do again and again, and I'm intrigued with what the Lord wants us to do again and again. But I just love verse three, in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. It's about blessing all of the families of the earth. So he's going to bless him, but they're going to bless others through him. And I think this is really key when we more fully come unto Christ, take upon ourself his name means we're going to act the way he would act. We're going to do what he would do. And so we're going to live out that being a blessing to

those around us, that it's a covenant obligation to live in the world to be a blessing to other people. And Abraham's doing that. And these promises that through him and his posterity, part of it is also pointing ahead to Christ, that Christ is going to come through his posterity. But also that this is what a covenant life looks like, is living to bless other people. And it's interesting to me, Jennifer, back in Abraham 1, he said, I want greater happiness, peace, and rest. And the Lord gives him children and work. And you're like, wait. I want that.

No, no, no, no. You didn't understand the question. That's not what I asked for. Right. This is another ancient word. I actually have another chapter in my book on this about the rest of the Lord. It means the presence of the Lord and the presence of the Lord means having a spirit. And of course, ultimately, literally being back in his presence. So, it doesn't mean napping. Doesn't mean not doing anything. The rest of the Lord is a condition of being busily engaged in blessing other people. Maybe we should call the Sabbath a day of rest with that definition,

because when I was a bishop, it was not a day of rest. Definitely that kind of resting in the Lord is not sitting idle. Yeah. It's interesting that it's kind of a paradox because the Lord preaches this in the New Testament all the time. If you want to find your life, lose it in service. And probably the two things that exhaust me the most are being a parent and being a church member. We waste and wear out our lives as Joseph Smith taught in this, but that really is the source of greater happiness and peace. It really is. And it seems paradoxical. It really does. Yeah. But that's what eternal life is, right? The kind of life that God lives, where he's living to bless us. He's living for us. We're at this apprenticeship stage where we're practicing serving, we're practicing

blessing others. And because, and this is, I think, where the faith comes in. This is truly the nature of happiness. Living to serve, living to bless, living holy lives is the right way, is the happy way. But it does take faith when it can be challenging. Yeah. I mean, the natural man or natural woman in this would say, the happiness is found in less work and less and being alone, right? And not helping others. Sounds exhausting. I remember hearing one time when I was younger about, was it Brigham Young who saw Joseph Smith in the spirit world and he was super busy or running somewhere. And I thought, are you kidding? I thought, oh man, you mean we'reants is trusting that this is a kind of life that is the abundant life.

This is the kind of life. And you sort of even a little hint right here in chapter five, where Abraham takes his family and their substance. And then it also says he takes the souls that they had gotten in Haran. So he's already inviting people to come in verse five, he's inviting people to come, he's sharing the good news. And that this is a pattern that's pretty powerful. So in Genesis 12, we get the blessings for Abraham, and blessings through Abraham. And then in Genesis 13, if you flip over to 13,

that's where we start to see just some other restatement. We see, again, that is peaceable walk with the children of men that you see in Moroni 7. This is how you can tell you're on the right path. And this is where Abraham lets Lot choose. He says, we're going together, whatever you want, I'll take the other thing. And there's a beautiful quote by Elder Cook about that, about let's be like Abraham. Let's not like rile people up unnecessarily. Let's eliminate strife. To have peaceful relationships, we should be willing to compromise and limit strife

with respect to matters that do not involve righteousness. So just let a lot of things go. And so Abraham's showing us how to live peaceably with people. Yeah, pick your battles, right? What really matters and then to have peace. So we have restatements in 13. We see the life that he's living. He's trying to not have strife, trying not to have contention.

And then in 14 and 16, so in 14, we see, again, the promise of land. So look around. This is the land that I'm giving you. And we also see the promise of posterity. The dust, your seed shall be as the dust of the earth. So we have this covenant renewal, this covenant restatement. Then we flip over to 15, and we're going to see this again. I love this beginning of chapter 15, where he speaks to

him and says, fear not, Abram. I am thy shield. I really, to me, this is underappreciated. I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward. So what is it we get by serving the Lord? He's giving it us himself. And when we go through the ordinances, we realize we're receiving Christ. We're receiving Christ in the sacrament. We're receiving Christ in baptism. We're receiving Christ. He's giving us himself. And that's part of why we have the courage to keep moving forward is the closer we grow,

the more of him that we receive and we partake of into our life. And then again, chapter 15, we have these restatements, his posterities compared to the stars. So you can't number them. You're not going to be able to number. I think we're getting to a point where he's realizing in chapter 15 that maybe, I'm not sure if this is really going to happen. The Lord says, trust me.

You have to trust me. I've given you this promise. And verse 6, I think, is again, is a verse that speaks through the ages, and it shows up multiple places in the New Testament. He believed in the Lord, and he, and I think this is the Lord, counted it to Abraham for righteousness, that Abraham's willingness to trust the Lord and his covenant promises kept Abraham going. And there are many of us who have made promises promises and we don't see the fulfillment right away. My husband and I have never been on children. Now, we know that's a blessing, a covenant promise, but it's not going to happen in this

life for us. But trusting the Lord and knowing that the covenants are real, even if they're not fulfilled in this immortality, that it's okay. Now, in Abraham's case, it had to be fulfilled immortality that it's okay now in abraham's case it had to be fulfilled immortality because that's where the covenant family was going to come out of so he had to have confidence in that but all of chapter 15 is this really beautiful covenants being redone essentially i think part of it may be just to buck up abraham and to give him confidence that the Lord has them make this sacrifice. And then in 1718, we see this, this is again, ritual action, very common in the ancient Near East, that the sacrifices would be

put in half. And then the person who's making the covenant, and usually it's a lesser party making a covenant to a greater party, walks between them to sort of to commit themselves. It's sort of like, I think what's implied is if I break my covenant, may I be cut in half as these sacrifices been cut in half. But what you see in verse 17 of chapter 15 is that the sun goes down, it's dark. And then what do you see? You see these signs of the presence of the Lord, a smoking furnace, a burning lamp passed between the pieces.

The Lord himself, Jehovah, is committing himself to Abraham, binding himself to Abraham, saying, I will not abandon you. I will, I remember the promise I made. And having that confidence, the Lord remembers his promises and gave Abraham confidence to keep going. And again, we see in chapter, you know, he renews the promise of getting the land, the posterity. In chapter 16, things start to get hard. Like, well, let's have a second wife and they have a baby. And this is a whole interesting, fascinating, and complicated chapter where Hagar and Ishmael, but Ishmael's not the child of the covenant.

The baby's going to come from Sarah. And so even though there are particular promises given to Ishmael and his descendants, he's not going to be the sort of the covenant line. So all that background, you get to chapter 17. So he's been through years and years, decades of covenant faithfulness. And he's 99. Lord appears to him again. And look with verse one, it's really interesting. He says, I am the Almighty God. And then you get this language of covenant faithfulness, walking the path, the covenant path, walk before me. And we've talked about this earlier, be thou perfect, better translated. So the Tamayin is integrity, wholeness. So if we make a mistake,

we confess, we forsake, we get back on the path to stay faithful. So that's a covenant expectation, which is the first time we've really seen this really articulated. I think it's implied all the way along. Again, we see the worship. So Abraham's falling on his faith. So again, the bowing down and he's talking with God. He renews the promise of posterity. So I will multiply the exceedingly. And then he gives some more specifics in four and five. He talks about many nations. In verse six, he's going to talk about kings. And then, so it's the first five where we do get the name change. So up to this point, we've been calling him Abraham, but he was Abram. And at this point now, he's not going to be known as Abram. He's going to, the name change, again, kind of points to that new nature. So father of a multitude.

It's like, for real, for sure, you may not believe it, you're 99, but this is who you are. This is who you are. And you just have to believe me. So the Lord's telling you, you have to believe me, this is who you are. You you just have to believe me. So the Lord's telling you, you have to believe me. This is who you are. You are the father of a multitude. And it's also interesting where you see in verse 15 that Sarai has her name changed as well. So again, you're seeing, I don't know how the ordinances work exactly for them, but you have these promises that are being really explicit here, and that her name is now from Sarai to Sarah, which means princess. So this posterity, you're seeing rule, relationship, land, all of

these covenant promises are coming out. And again, I think it's important to note, and this is where President Nelson's talked about, some things can change and other things don't change. The way that covenants are enacted in this ancient world was a way, and I know Carrie Muehlstein talked about this, that ritual action is a way of communicating. And the Lord is communicating to them and asking them to communicate in a way that makes sense in their cultural world. So in Hebrew, you cut a covenant. That's the verb. People in the ancient world would cut themselves. They might cut their face or their hand to indicate that they'd made this pledge or this covenant. And so here's where circumcision enters in. It's part of the covenant. He uses the term in verse 11, it should be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. So that there's this external way of indicating, even though it's still private, it's still external. And it's going to be even more public when you get to the Hellenistic era and people are exercising in

gymnasiums in the nude and it becomes an issue for the Jews in the sort of leading up to the New Testament. But this this is and it is actually going to stay we're going to be part of the law of moses as well on the eighth day to circumcise all the little baby boys and so this becomes again this external way of indicating this covenant relationship so the name and this these show up for the first time in 17 so you have this pattern yeah this is part of entering their world like we talked about earlier exactly this would have show up for the first time in 17. So you have this pattern. Yeah. This is part of entering their world, like we talked about earlier.

This would have made perfect sense. This would have been a way that they communicate. Literally, you cut a covenant. That's what you do in the ancient world. And that's the language. The Lord's communicating with them and they're communicating with him in a way that makes sense for them in their cultural context. I love Sarah's line here and Abraham's line. We're going to have a child.

And he's saying, we're going to have a baby. She says, I'm almost 100 years old. I don't know if changing my name is going to be the solution, but it happens. Yeah, yeah. And that's, I think it's just an extraordinary thing. I love in the New Testament, I don't have this open, but Hebrews 11, 11, through faith, Sarah herself, and I think this is where covenant promises matter because we can hold onto them. We can trust the Lord. He's true to his word. And so through faith, trusting the Lord's word, Sarah herself

received strength to conceive seed. So her trust in the Lord gave her power to do something that would have physically, I mean, sure, like menopause, she's what? She's so old, right? But she was delivered of a child when she was past age. Why? Because she judged him faithful who had promised. She trusted the Lord and the Lord's promise that the Lord was more powerful than nature. And nature had probably moved her well beyond decades before childbearing years, but she had confidence that the Lord was more powerful. And that really, I think, helps us understand why we make covenants and how we keep covenants, is we trust the Lord and that we keep moving forward. The Bible gives us and gave not just the Christian world, but all the Muslims, the sense of Abraham as the father, the faithful, the example of Abraham is just extraordinary.

And then we're just so blessed as Latter-day Saints to have additional scripture to help us appreciate even more power of the covenant. And then also just to have the covenant restored in our day. It's, I don't think we begin to understand how important this is and what a privilege it is. And then as we've discussed, that's sort of the obligations that come with that privilege. And so actually, if we flip over to Abraham, go back to the Pearl of Great Price. And so in Abraham chapter two, we actually get

some of the gospel dimension. So you see the promises in the Bible, posterity, rule, have a relationship, land. But when you get to Abraham, you see that there's a gospel dimension for the children of Abraham to take the gospel to the world. But also the flip side is everyone that accepts the gospel becomes the children of Abraham. And it's hinted out in the New Testament. You get a sense of that with Paul where he says, whoever is baptized into Christ is Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promises. You don't have to literally be a descendant of Abraham to receive the covenant blessings. But it becomes even more clear with Abraham 2, verses 9 and 10.

Maybe we can look at those a little bit together. So we have the Lord appearing to Abraham. And again, he's introducing himself in verse 7. I am the Lord thy God. I dwell in heaven. The earth is my footstool. So he has power. We can trust in him.

He gives his name in 8. My name is Jehovah. I know the end from the beginning. My hand shall be over thee. And then the promises, if you look in verse Abraham 2, 9 and 10, that the promises have this additional gospel dimension. I will make of thee a great nation. So we have some of that in the Bible. I will bless the above measure. Again, we have that in the Bible. I will make thy name great among all nations. So still in the Bible. I will make thy name great among all nations. So still in the Bible. So it's reiterating, restating what the Bible promises are, but look how it goes on.

Thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and this priesthood unto all nations. And I will bless them through thy name for as many as receive this gospel shall be called after thy names. This is part of why we call it the Abrahamic covenant, right? And we become the seed of Abraham, the heirs of Abraham and be accounted thy seed and shall rise up and bless thee as their father.

As we become the children of Christ, we also become the children of Abraham, that we become heirs of all the blessings that Abraham was promised. And that happens as we invite other people to come into Christ and to make covenants, that everyone is invited to receive all these blessings. And that's what the restoration is for. The gathering of Israel. Again, President Nelson, just this last conference, the gathering of Israel is really to fulfill the covenants made to Abraham and to allow all of God's children to make the same covenants. He says, where it says, ponder these truths.

The restoration is a process, not an event, and will continue until the Lord comes again. And then two, the ultimate objective of the gathering of Israel is to bring the blessings of the temple to God's faithful children. So we're gathering Israel so that all of the seed of Abraham can receive the blessings of Abraham. But this is President Nelson. He said, everything we believe and every promise God has made to his covenant people come together in the temple. In every age, the temple is underscored the precious truth

that those who make the covenants with God and keep them are the children of the covenant. In the house of the Lord, again, we mentioned before, we can make the same covenants with God that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob made. We can receive the same blessings. And then he emphasizes this is about Christ. It focuses on Christ. The temple lies at the center of strengthening our faith and spiritual fortitude because

the Savior and his doctrine are the very heart of the temple. Everything taught in the temple, through instruction and through the Spirit, increases our understanding of Jesus Christ. His essential ordinances bind us to him through sacred priesthood covenants. Then as we keep our covenants, he endows us with his healing, strengthening power, and oh, how we will need his power in the days ahead. The Lord wants to give us help to do what he is going to ask us to do. He's not asking us to do it himself.

He's telling us, I will be with thee, and that it's through making and keeping covenants that we allow him to be with us. I remember as a missionary, we would talk often about the restoration being a restoration of the New Testament church. The more I learned, the more I realized the restoration is New Testament, yes, but it's a restoring of Old Testament covenants. The new and everlasting. Isn't it fun how often we have quoted President Nelson in taking us back to this covenant consciousness? I heard Robert Millett call it, we have a lack of covenant consciousness. And I think President Nelson, since Robert Millett said that many years ago, has really helped us have a covenant consciousness of what that is and what it means. And it's so deeply rooted.

The more we have that, the more we're going to get out of all of the Old Testament, all of the New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, because this is the Lord's way. This is how he works with us. This is how he connects to us, how he brings us home. This is the plan. This is the gospel. Yeah.

So the prophet Joseph Smith said, what was the object of gathering the people of God in any age of the world? The main object was to build unto the Lord a house whereby he could reveal unto his people So the idea of why do we gather? Well, ultimately, to bless all the families of the earth, the best thing we can offer the families of the earth, what the Lord offers is be sealed together in the temple. Jennifer, I wanted to ask you something that you mentioned earlier. And when you talked about here's Sariah and Hagar and Ishmael, and you said things get real and difficult. So I think that's got to be part of this story is okay. Covenant,

you're going to be with God and this, all these wonderful blessings are going to be part of this. But even with the originals, Abraham and Sarah, things got difficult and messy and human. How might our listeners, I don't know if this is helpful or not. It might be like, well, I already knew this Hank, I already knew things were this is helpful or not. It might be like, well, I already knew this, Hank. I already knew things were difficult. But we shouldn't expect with our covenants easy, right? I think that's got to be part of what I'm learning. As I read through Genesis 12 through 17, there's all these great blessings.

But it was, you know, this whole situation with Hagar and Ishmael, this is difficult stuff. And it's going to get even harder later on where Ishmael and Hagar are essentially banished. And so I think there's a couple dimensions that maybe part of it is that we're on a path to becoming godly, but we're human. And so we have fears and jealousies and resentments and anxiety and all of these things that make life together harder. I just imagine, you know, because we're looking at a plural marriage situation here with chapter 16, and we know, and I had ancestors that were willing to do that, but that it had to

have been difficult to share your spouse. And then here you have built into that the sense of there's the covenant promise and a covenant line, because Sarah's the one who proposes it, right? She, back in 16 verse 2, says, I haven't been able to have children let's try this so let's have you and and hagar have children and abraham listens to sarah and i think there's going to be a wellspring of complicated emotions that are involved in well put just i can't even imagine what's going on inside of all of them. They're trying to do the right thing. And even you go back to chapter 15 where Abram's like, well, I know I'm supposed to have posterity, but maybe my steward's going to be my heir. And the Lord's like, no, no, that's not it.

And then they're like, well, maybe Hagar's child's going to be there. And the Lord's like, no, no, that's not it. And it's sort of like Nephi, I'm going to try this. No, I'm going to try that. No, I'm going to try that. No. And I think the fact there's a trial and error dimension. Okay, the third time, this is the right one. You too, you are the ones who are going to literally bear in your old age this covenant child.

You're going to be Isaac's parents. And that's a promise in 1718. Sarah, thy wife, shall bear thee a son indeed, and thou shalt call his name Isaac, and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant and seed with him. But by the time they get to this, they've gone through decades of complication and anxiety, trial and error of different ways of getting to the result. And the Lord finally says, no, this is how it's going to happen. But I think it's clear from 15 and 16 that they're trying to figure out, well, how is this going to happen? That in the process of, you know, just the human

dynamics of how does it feel to think your steward's going to be your heir, but then no, he's not going to be your heir. but then no, he's not going to be your heir. And then you take another wife and have a child, but no, that's not going to be, you know, just a lot of complicated, sad, and sometimes perhaps even disturbing. And then I think where faith comes in is just trusting the Lord, even though we go through maybe years, maybe decades of not understanding the faith to keep going and the faith to trust that his promises are sure, but we don't necessarily know when they're going to be fulfilled or how they're going to be fulfilled. And we don't have to

know that because we know him. We know he loves us and that that can bring us comfort and peace, even when we don't have answers. Yeah, because as we look back on abraham's life we can see the whole picture where in the middle of it they couldn't see it he had to go through his life like we go through our lives and he didn't have the answers he he just kept going and that's i think what the lord expects of us is just to keep going just the irony irony of, hey, you're going to be the father of many nations. Okay, take your son and go sacrifice. What? Talk about a test of trusting. I think that I like that a lot, Jennifer. I just think those listening are going to say, this sounds so perfect. I'm going to take my covenants and I'm going to have all these

blessings and I'm going to bless the earth and the Lord's going to be my reward. But that comes in time. It doesn't, yeah. It doesn't take away, it didn't take away from Abraham and Sarah, and it doesn't take away from us years and decades of just keeping going and holding on and trying to be faithful to the covenants we've made, even though we may not have the answers or may not see the blessings, the faith and the trust that keeps us going, knowing the Lord loves us. And you just have to, you know, the darkest moments to go back and say, you know, you promised you'd be there for me, and I need to know that. And that personal relationship with the Lord is going to be the answer when he doesn't necessarily, he's not necessarily in a position to give us other answers other than to say, I'm with thee. Yeah. And like Genesis 15, 6, and Abraham believed, And the Lord saw that, right? The Lord counted

that to him for righteousness. He's like, I will remember that. I remember president Monson telling a story once about a man who gives up a career to go on a mission a long time ago. And the man wrote in his journal, uh, the greatest decision I ever made in my life was to give up something I loved to the God I loved even more. He has never forgotten me for it. And that's this kind of idea of like, the Lord's not going to take away life. But when we keep believing, the Lord remembers. He does. He does. He does. And that's part of the covenant that gives us the confidence to trust him because we have this relationship, because we have become the children of the covenant.

So we know our Heavenly Father loves us, but we've created this covenant relationship with our Savior so that he's our spiritual father as well. And we know that he's bound to us. And if we look to him, he will deliver us. And the way that deliverance is going to look is individual, it's personal, but that he has promised that he, that's what it means to be a kinsman redeemer. And that's who he is to us individually because of the covenants we've made. Thank you for bringing that full circle, kinsman redeemer, how we started. I want to read more about that. Do you have more about the kinsman redeemer?

I've got multiple articles, but the volume has a summary for a general audience. But Religious Studies Center, if you want in-depth articles, lots of things online. Yeah. A lot of available. It just helps to know the Redeemer was an idea. They already knew about being bought back from slavery and so forth. That's really interesting. I can hear a listener at home saying, okay, I get it.

Why does it have to be so hard? Right? it. Why does it have to be so hard? Right? Like, why does it have to be so hard for Abraham, even for the originals here that we're talking about? The Lord is going to constantly say, look to your fathers, look to your fathers. And when we look at our fathers, it was hard for them. Right. And this is outside of our reading.

And I know you touched on the sacrifice that Abraham was asked to make. And this is, you'll get to it with a different podcast. But I think this idea of having to decide, it actually came twice for Abraham because he had to give up Ishmael and then he had to be willing to give up Isaac. So going back to the idea of worship and what do we love the most? If the Lord put all his trust in the existence of Abraham, then he would never have been willing. That wasn't the source of his confidence. The source of his confidence was in the Lord's promise. And again, there's this beautiful discussion in Hebrews where it talks about what gave Abraham the courage to do that.

And this is Hebrews 11, 17, by faith. So again, he's trusting the Lord's promise. By faith, Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac. He that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son of whom it was said, in Isaac shall thy seed be called. So he knew like if he gave up Isaac, it's all off. He's not going to have his promise, but he knew the promise was sure. And so verse 19, accounting that God was able to raise him up even from the dead. So his confidence in the Lord's promise and the Lord's

power was so strong, he was willing to be obedient because he knew that the Lord had promised in Isaac, thy seed shall be called. And so he's like, well, I'm not, the Lord had promised in Isaac, they see, shall be called. And so he's like, well, I'm not, the Lord's not gonna back down. He's not going to take Isaac away permanently. And so I think this is a little insight in the book of Hebrews is how deep the faith was of Abraham that he was willing to obey.

And so I think the Lord, when he asks us to obey, he wants to see if we trust him. And that always goes back to faith. Yeah, my faith isn't in an outcome. My faith is in the Lord. And we talked about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, right? They said, nevertheless, like, maybe we're not going to be saved, right? Yeah.

That they were willing to do what they needed to do. What is it? Our Lord is able to save us, but if not, we will still not worship the idols. And there has to be something, and both of you can speak to this, there has to be something about the difficulty of human life that prepares us, right? I don't think the Lord just says, well, you know, I'm going to let you suffer for a little while just because. So, all of this figuring out, all of this, what did you call it? You said this wellspring of emotions.

Complicated emotions. Yeah. Wellspring of complicated emotions. That has to be good for us in the long run, right? I mean, it's part of the learning process we know Christ himself went through where he talked about him learning obedience by the things he suffered. So Christ is learning to be obedient to the Father. And if we want to become like him, we have to be willing to be obedient. And so obedience takes faith. And so Christ was so faithful, he was willing to be obedient to the Father,

even to the point of where he gets to the point where he's like, well, maybe I don't want to do what you want me to do. But then he says, no, no, I do. I really do, and I'm willing to. But that's the kinds of, if Abraham, again, is pointing us us to christ and so to be becoming like abraham to be willing to be obedient like abraham is is trying to become obedient like christ and have have the faith in christ like christ had faith in the father and this for me

i think is one of my favorite passages in the book of mormon and um second nevi 26 because it's one of my favorite passages in the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 26. Because it's like, how do we know, like, how can we trust God? And this is Nephi where he says, the witness he had, and I felt this witness in hard times as well. I say unto you, the Lord God worketh not in darkness. So verse 23, 24. He doeth not anything, save it be for the benefit of the world. Now, it doesn't mean that he causes things to happen. Sometimes we get confused and think bad things happen. God hates me. Well, he's not causing things to happen. There's this beautiful talk by President Kimball and where President Kimball essentially says, we don't know

why bad things happen. We're not promised that God's controlling everything that's happening, but he promises that he can consecrate things for our gain. He can have things work together for our gain. He doesn't mean he's making the bad things happen to him. Is it the one death, tragedy, or destiny? Yeah. President Kimball's talk.

Yeah, keep going. No, but it is it's i think so we get confused and think well that is the sort of the gods make everything happen but part is that second nephi 2 where lehi's promising jacob he says all things will work together for good they'll be consecrated for that good and the lord can can help things be consecrated for a good doesn't mean he necessarily makes them happen and But part of it is trusting enough to know that when he does ask us to do something, even if it seems counterintuitive or it seems hard, or says, well, I don't think that's what's going to make me happy. I think I should live this way,

and that's going to make me happy. And the Lord says, no, these are my commandments. These are the laws and expectations of holiness. And so to trust that holiness is happiness, to trust that following the Lord's way is a path of happiness can take a lot of faith. And so I think understanding his nature and that's why everything, I think why Abraham was able to do what Abraham did, because Abraham had come through, why does it have to be so hard? It's the survivors of the Martin Handcart Company, right? When they said, in our extremities, we've come to know him. Yeah, he became acquainted with God in our, yeah. Yeah, President Hinckley loved to tell that story about the church meeting somewhere in southern Utah where there was some criticism letting the saints leave so late. A man stood up in the back and said, I was there, I was in that company, and the price we paid was worth it because we became acquainted with God in our extremities.

And somebody wrote, Andrew Olson wrote a book called The Price We Paid. It's one of the most gratitude-inducing, I'll never complain again type books I've ever read. And you said it over and over again today, Dr. Lane, about trusting the Lord and then trusting his timing. Abraham shows us that. He definitely does. And I see kind of the opposite in Lot, who faces his tent towards Sodom, right? He's not too interested in the Lord. Genesis 13, 12, Lot says, I'll go over here.

And then I noticed in the next chapter, so that's chapter 13, verse 12, he's facing Sodom. And then in chapter 14, verse 12, Lot lives in Sodom. It didn't take too long. It didn't take too long from facing Sodom to go and just move on in. And that makes me nervous. I should, all of us. Yeah, that I face my tent away from the Lord. I might end up just packing and moving into the world. I think this is part of why, you know, we've heard this certainly, you know, with President Hunter and then President Nelson's reiterated to worship in the temple as often as circumstances

allow, that it actually, it's the flip side of what happens when you're facing your tent towards Sodom and you become more comfortable and you want to go there. The more time we spend worshiping the Lord, the more time we spend facing in our daily lives as well, whether reading the Book of Mormon every day, praying morning and night, doing whatever we can to be faithful to our covenants. So we face towards the Lord, we're bowing down, we're serving, that we want to move there. We want to go there. And so whatever we spend time with is going to change us. And these are sobering. I think their stories are supposed to be sobering. And they're there for a reason because we can easily switch. Any of us can get off track. And it's important just on these daily practices and the regular temple attendance,

regular scripture study are there because they orient us to what's real. They keep us connected to God. Yeah. And if your faith is in outcomes and you don't get your outcome, you just walk. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go somewhere else for my, for my happiness where the Lord's Abraham, what'd you say? He has faith in the Lord, not necessarily in Isaac or in any of the efforts he's tried to make. I like this story because it's so human. It's so complicated. And there's, I'm going to remember that forever. A wellspring of complicated emotions. That's, that, that's gotta be, that's a great, just a title for people. How are you doing today? Um, it's a wellspring of complicated emotions,

right? A lot of mortality. Yeah. Yeah. And when people say, why does it have to be so hard? I don't know. I don't know why it has to be so hard, but there is something about the process that changes you. For me, Abraham just gives me a vision for the kind of life that I want to live to keep seeking for what's real and to stay oriented to the Lord because alternate visions of mortality that are presented are so abundant and that the covenant path is a source of stability and peace. It doesn't mean complications aren't real. It just means that we know we're going

someplace, that there's a meaning to the journey and that we actually can get there through Christ and with his help. He's there to reach out and to lead us along. He's promised that, that he will lead us along. And when we stay close to him and we try to take his hand and walk with him, then we can have the help we need to get through those hard years and maybe sometimes hard decades. Yeah, and what did he say to Joseph Smith? The Son of Man has descended below them all. I'm doing this too. What did Isaiah call him? A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. answer, maybe too simple, sometimes that we give to our kids is, hey, you always learn more from your hard times than from your easy times. And maybe the Lord loves you too much to let your life be easy. But I also think that when I've learned so much more and been blessed so much

more by people that I know that have had hard times who have blessed me with their faith, then somebody, I've never really been through anything hard, you know, but when I know somebody who's been through a lot, it's a little bit of same boat therapy that, wow, we went through that. We went through that. Let me tell you how we, what we did and how we did that. And we can say, this is how we survived that. And then we become a blessing to each other. And that's worshiping because we're serving each other. We all need each other. We're doing this way. The Lord has a church that we're here together.

We're journeying together. Even in an endowment ceremony we go through as a company, we need each other to make the journey. The Lord is going to be there with us. He'll lead us along. But I think we can, our faith, we can strengthen each other. And that's a blessing. And it's a privilege when we do see somebody who's gone through so much and yet has faith. It's a privilege to hear their witness.

And the Lord, I think, puts them in our way sometimes, in our path, I mean, so that they can bless us. If you meet somebody who's never had a trial in their life, they're not going to help you much. No, everything's been easy. Never had a trial. Oh, okay. Well, I'd like to visit with someone else who can help me through this problem. I want to make sure that any listening doesn't feel like Sarah is like a side character to Abraham. Couldn't you call this the Abrahamic Sariah covenant? I mean, she's going through all of this as well.

And I love that you pointed out she has her name changed. This is something that happened to them together as a couple that they went through together. I love that. And I love that. This isn't something that's, well, Abraham was the one who had priesthood office. And so this is all about him. And it's like, no, the both of them had this covenant promise together. And that's the Lord wants to make covenants with his sons and his daughters. So seeing them and their covenant helps and their faithfulness to their covenant. And again, that Hebrews passage is she had that confidence. She had the faith that allowed the Lord to work

in her life and to do something that she could not have done. So that capacity that we need to get power, and that's precisely what the restoration is for. Again, President Nelson, every woman and every man who makes covenant with God and keeps those covenants, who participates worthily in priesthood ordinances, has direct access to the power of God. And so I think as we increasingly, as President Nelson's taught us to do, put our emphasis on the blessings of the priesthood in the endowment, that we're just beginning to understand the gift that we're being given. Like we know we're baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. And we know we go through the temple and we receive the endowment. But I think we're just

beginning to understand what the Lord wants to give us. And Abraham and his story, and Sarah and her story, that the two of them and their willingness to start a new life together points us to the kind of new life that we're receiving through Christ. He wants to give us a better life. He wants to give us his kind of life. And that is, it's absolutely universal. And that it's for women and for men. So, to not feel as though that there's something different or special about Abraham when this is something that the Lord wants to do for each and every one of us. Excellent. Absolutely excellent. Dr. Lane, can you talk about people that identify with Abraham?

Because many religious traditions do. Absolutely, yes. Abraham is known as the father of the faithful. And so, you know, we look at Judaism and then, of course, Christianity and Islam. So all of the faith traditions that look back to the Bible, look back to the prophets, revere Abraham. He is an example of faithfulness as a term, the Abrahamic faith traditions that those sort of coming out of that are going to be so important in the Western tradition. Of course, there are other wonderful religious traditions throughout the world. And we know from the first presidency statement that they were also religious leaders that

were inspired of God. But the influence that Abraham has had on really is a founding figure for the Muslims, of course, that they see the covenant going a different direction. They look at Ishmael, but they still look back to Abraham and they see the example. And Abraham is seen, the term Islam actually means sort of to bow, again, bow down, to submit. And so, Abraham is seen as sort of a model for true worship and just i think as we can look at abraham and say he is a model of true worship of true obedience and true faithfulness that that so many millions and millions of our brothers and sisters

in islam look to to abraham and they fact, part of their worship is tied to following the example of Muhammad, who's also understood as a follower of God. But they go back to Abraham, who is seen as an archetype of a human being and walking in the way of the Lord. And so I think this idea of following God, walking in his way isn't unique to Christianity, that within Judaism and Islam, Abraham really has set a model for how to walk away from the world, how to walk towards God. And I think that that resonates with people of faith throughout the world, even those who aren't in Islamic faith traditions, the idea that there's a right way to walk, there's a right way to be in the world. And so the discipleship is choosing to walk the way Abraham walked, choosing to bow down, to serve, to worship God. People who feel something sort of calling to them, that Abraham exemplifies that and he models it for us.

Yeah. um exemplifies that and he models it for us yeah so so the three abrahamic faiths would be judaism islam and christianity yes absolutely amazing which is so many of so much of the planet amazing heritage that that the blessings that that people would remember his name that that happened that's yeah that's part of the covenant. Yeah. And it happened. And bless the earth. Exactly.

That so many people live better lives because of following this example. Yeah. Wow. I don't know, Hank. I'm kind of having a wellspring of complicated emotions. Yes, I will be using that for a long time i am glad to articulate what we all deal with from time to time i want to see an illustration of that just this fountain of the other thing that made me laugh is that he says i want greater happiness peace and rest

and laura's like okay so here's a bunch of problems. Yeah, that's great, Hank. That's a great insight. Wait, wait, wait. That's not what I asked for. That's not what I wanted. It's like Joseph Smith. All I wanted to know is what church to join.

Yeah. I said, Mary, I'm in Liberty Jail. Did I sign up for this? Right. Yeah. It reminds me of, John, we have our friend Meg Johnson, who's in a wheelchair. And she was in an accident when she was in her early 20s and is in a wheelchair. And she said in a dream, she kind of saw herself in the premortal life. And they were explaining how difficult it was going to be.

And her spirit, she said, oh, okay. Oh, okay. All right. All right. And then her now saying said, oh, okay. Oh, okay. All right. All right. And then, you know, her now saying, you naive little spirit. Don't say, you know, I signed up for this, right? Well, it's like Hickelder Maxwell talked about in the book of Job. It says, when the sons of God shouted for joy, and he said, now that we're here, we're wondering what all the shouting was about.

Yeah. Definitely need a long-term view to. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Dr. Lane, this has been fantastic, really. I just, I've learned so much. And I thought I knew a lot, right?

But coming now, I feel like, wow, I'm looking at these chapters differently than I ever have. I think our listeners would be interested in your journey personally and professionally. Here you are, a biblical scholar and a faithful Latter-day Saint. I think our listeners would say, yeah, Hank, ask her about that journey. What's that been like? Sure. Well, actually, I started out a little bit with it because of my own studies.

So I got back from my mission and I was studying history. And I honestly was thinking of going in and being a history professor because I love the human experience and trying to understand it, but I kept drawing, being drawn more and more towards, um, scripture study. And, but in, in the, what's been fascinating for me is that the more educated I become, the more I in-depth I researched that the better I understand the gospel. So that the process, I, again, I graduated with university honors, which meant I had to write an honors thesis. Well, it's in the process of writing the honors thesis that I made the connections between covenant and redemption in the writings of Paul. And then as I went on to get a PhD, my field is history of Christianity. I was kind of moving more and more towards the early Christian era. And what was the meaning of baptism?

What was the meaning of the ordinances for the early Christians sort of growing out of my master's thesis? And it was interesting, the work I did with history of Christianity, a lot of people do get nervous. They say, oh, you're going on for a PhD. I'd even get the question when I was working on my PhD, isn't that shaking your testimony? I say, no, I appreciate the restoration even more. Because being a student of the history of Christianity, I know that there are people of faith in many religious traditions and throughout Christian history, amazing people. But the clarity and the answers that came to Joseph Smith, the additional light and knowledge we have with the restoration, and I just appreciate what the covenant is, the restoration of of the covenant restoration of priesthood blessings because i can see what it looks like to be taking the bible and trying to make sense of it yourself and all these different traditions and people are so they're good people even in the early period

where they're just figure trying to figure things out but just the difference between having prophets and apostles who are authorized representatives of the Lord and the kind of clarity that comes. I think sometimes people think that because we have revelation, we should have all the answers, and that's not the way the Lord works. He wants us to use our mind. We learn by study and by faith. Elder Maxwell wrote some wonderful things about this, that the vast majority of things we learn, we learn through our own study. And the faith is just to keep studying to find answers.

But the things that matter the most, the things that have to do with Jesus Christ, the plan of redemption, those are the things that only the Lord can reveal to us. And so seeing how the Lord sends prophets and the Lord sends apostles. And then when there are prophets and apostles, the Lord sends angels. And so looking for revelation and seeing how revelation comes and then what do you do with that revelation? That's what matters. But again, my own studies, I just appreciate and I'm so grateful. It's not a sense of competition at all. I love people of faith in so many religious traditions. I'm so grateful for them, that they're living up to the light they have is extraordinary. And that's going to take them back. Because people are faithful like they have, they're going to be willing to receive more and more light that

the question is, what am I doing with the light I have? Because of the restoration, I know that what I've been given isn't just more truth, but that, again, we've been talking about covenant, and covenant is power. And that's something I came to know for But even before I went on a mission, I began to understand that taking upon ourself the name of Christ through baptism, just by reading it over and over again, 2 Nephi 31, trying to memorize some of those passages, that just the clarity of what the baptismal covenant is, that learning, true learning, I think, brings close reading. It brings good thinking. And so, when you understand, okay, any assumptions you start with, you're going to logically follow out from that and come to conclusions. And so, it really matters what assumptions you start with, what are the premises you're working from. And nobody can give that to you. You have to know for yourself. So having lived experience that there is a God, that he

loves me, he loves all his children, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he's the Savior of the world. Nobody can give you that. As a witness, you have to come to yourself. But when you know that, then what follows from that is it follows that God loves us, that Jesus Christ suffered and died for us, that God called his servant, Joseph Smith, to restore priesthood covenants and blessings again on the earth, and that he brought forth his word through the Book of Mormon. When you know that, you know, through personal experience, each of those things are true, then it doesn't mean you have answers to everything. But for me, I found that I know what matters and which is getting on the path, staying on the path,

keeping that relationship with the Lord. And so anything that I learn about things that are complicated, things are complicated. It's mortality. And it's okay. I don't have the answers. That's okay. Because I know the Lord loves me. And I know that His promises are sure. And so I don't have to, the prophets don't have to have done everything right or said everything right, because they're human beings. I don't have, my confidence isn't in them. My confidence is in the Lord Jesus Christ and he's working with them. He's working with me. We're going to be fine as long as we just are true to him and the covenants we've made. He'll get us there.

That's what I've come to know. And everything I study deepens my conviction that that's real and makes deepens my appreciation for the privilege of, of being part of his work in our day. I don't have a wellspring of complicated emotions right now. I'm just grateful I was here. That's all that's coming right now. It's just grateful I was here and able to learn from you. We're all, we're all learning. And that's the great thing. I mean, I, everything I study and dig deeper, it's like more insight, more understanding.

It's the, the gospel is so deep. It's so rich. The scriptures are just the never ending because we can just keep coming to know the Lord and how to, how to walk in his ways and appreciating, you know, how do we do that amidst all the other things we may not understand.

And we've got a lot of, a lot of people in the scriptures that have walked that path. I love it. I absolutely love it. Me too. I got, I've got it. So if I go to, um, the, uh, religious study center and I do a search for Kinsman Redeemer. Yeah, you can actually, if you Google Jennifer C. Lane, there's a list of all my publications with the Religious Studies Center. And you've got one with that title? Yeah, there's Adoptive Redemption.

Yeah, there's many. There's several articles that are on that theme. In one of my Book of Mormon classes, I talk about, you know, what's your favorite name for the plan of salvation? And everybody, oh, plan of happiness. They all love that and everything. But when we look at the Book of Mormon, the one that is, I think it's 15 times is plan of redemption. It's much more common than plan of salvation in the Book of Mormon. And when we look at who used the term, it was Alma, the sons of Mosiah, who knew they needed to be redeemed. I love that insight into the, and so I like to call it plan of redemption because that's what

the Book of Mormon calls it. And I recognize a need. I need a redeemer. And so you talking about that was just a blessing to me today. I thought, oh, this is so good. I got to research this some more. It's powerful. And it just, again, the more we understand the Bible, the more we're going to understand all of Scripture. Because redemption, the theme of redemption, understanding that Jesus Christ is our redeemer, the price he paid for us, and that pattern of buying out of bondage, and why He does it, because of His covenant relationship with us. We're the children of the covenant, and He's our kinsman and Redeemer.

It goes throughout Scripture, and the more we understand, the more confidence we have in Him and His relationship to us. We had a sister in our ward who gave an entire sacrament meeting talk on two words of Abinadi, redemption cometh. This great talk on just that redemption cometh. It was so good. Thank you. It's so deep you can go darrow because there's so much depth.

There's so much depth. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. We want to thank Dr. Jennifer Lane for being here today. We want to thank all of you for listening. We need to thank Steve and Shannon Sorenson, our executive producers, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorenson. We love you.

And we hope all of you will join us on our next episode of Follow Him. Hey, we want to remind everybody that you can find us on social media. Come find us on Facebook and Instagram. We would love it if you would subscribe to, rate, and review the podcast, share it with your friends. That would be awesome. Go to followhim.co, followhim.co for any show notes, transcripts, any references you want. If you're feeling up to it, you can read the transcript in French, Portuguese, and Spanish. So all of that is available to you absolutely free. Go to followhim.co to find all of that. Thank you.