followHIM - Genesis 37-41 -- Part 2 : Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson

Episode Date: March 6, 2022

Dr. Anderson returns to discuss the timing of blessings, how sometimes the wicked seem to prosper, how spiritual blessings can come from the darkest times, and how all will be made right through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/episodesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producers/SponsorsDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: MarketingLisa Spice: Client Relations, Show Notes/TranscriptsJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Rough Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Transcripts/Language Team/French TranscriptsAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsIgor Willians: Portuguese Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to part two of this week's podcast. But, you know, even though we lived in different states, we remained friends and had some contact here and there anyway, even visited them a little bit. They had a bunch of kids, too. So our kids were about the same age. And then her husband, who was in a seminary institute program in another state, this was a long time ago, had an affair with one of his students and left the family. And he left them in terrible financial circumstances. I mean, horrible. There were bad taxes that were owed. They didn't own a home of their own. They were staying in a home of a couple that were on a mission. So he had all these kids, and he never paid a penny of alimony or child support. And the woman that he left for was wealthy. So pretty soon he was driving a truck and

he ended up with this new wife in a place where the family had previously lived. So occasionally she would get some news from a friend. This was a few years after the divorce, but she was still in very difficult circumstances. Now talking about tender mercies, she had been really inspired to renew her teaching credentials just before all this happened. And so she was able to get a job that provided income and benefits, which was a miracle because she had this large family and no help from their father. And you know what God says about that in the New Testament, that he who doesn't take care of wife and children is worse than an infidel. You know, infidels don't even believe, you know, at all in God.

So it's pretty serious to God. And this was her circumstance. And it was bitter. It was a bitter, bitter circumstance. So unfair. And then she had a friend from this town where her ex-husband now lived with his new wife call one day and say, oh, is he paying child support? My friend said, why would you think so? And she said, well, I saw him in the temple.

And she was really upset. Because as we know, in the temple recommend questions, if you've been divorced, they ask if you are current in your obligations, because the Lord expects us to meet those commitments in order to be worthy to enter his house. But sometimes people don't tell the truth. So he had a temple recommend, even though he was not making those commitments at all. And my friend, Collard, she was beside herself. Why does this happen? How can he end up in the temple again? And she was like, you know, why would I even want to go to the temple if they'll let him in the temple? Why do I want to go to church if they'll let this guy? I mean, he was teaching gospel doctrine. The unfairness of it, the irony, it was so painful to her. She was just in so much

trouble emotionally, and the pain was awful. And she said, why can't they just make a phone call? Why don't they just call? I wasn't a counselor at the time. But she finally paused. And I mean, of course, I accepted her pain and offered, you know, my love and sorrow for her. And finally, she got to a place where she said, so what do I do? Tell me something. I'm like, wow. So I'm like praying my guts out, you know, like, please, Lord, help me say something that can be of comfort to her. And I said, have I ever told you how I grade seminary? I was teaching early morning seminary by then. And she said, is this going to be relevant?

I sure hope so. She said, okay. So I said, well, the first year, I'm sure there are policies now that should be followed. But back then they were pretty liberal about us early morning teachers. The first year I did the recommended few assignments or quizzes or something that were pretty easy

and I gave them grades, but I didn't really like that system. So the next year and from then on for the other four years that I taught, when the kids would come in the first day, they always wanted to know how I was going to grade. So I would say, well, we're going to keep it really simple. If you come 80% of the time, which is the minimum requirement for CES credit, and you're

awake and respectful, I'm going to give you a B because I think it's a big sacrifice to come to early morning seminary. I'm going to give you a B. So they're like, how do we get an A? And I said, well, if you want an A, you need to read the scriptures that we're studying. Because, you know, you could take 12 years of Book of Mormon and you never know if you need to read the scriptures that we're studying. Because you know, you could take 12 years of Book of Mormon, and you never know if you don't read it. Same with other scriptures. So that's my incentive. If you want an A, read the scriptures that we're studying.

And then again, because they're programmed by all kinds of educational processes, and so on, and strictures, they were like, well, so how many chapters do we have to read a day? Do our parents need to initial something? Do we have to sign the roll a certain way? You know, how do we do this? And I said, that's way too much paperwork. I'm a volunteer. So we're going to keep this really simple. You make an acceptable effort to read the scriptures.

I know you're busy, but that's between you and the Lord. What is an acceptable effort to finish this book, even if you have to finish it in the summer, but make an acceptable effort during this journey of studying this year to read this book, even if you have to finish it in the summer, but make an acceptable effort during this journey of studying this year to read this book. And every quarter, I'm going to pass out a piece of paper to all of you, and you'll write your name on it. And you write yes, if you're making an acceptable effort. And no, if you're not, fold the paper, hand it in. The yeses get A's, the noes get B's. And these kids would gasp aloud. And then someone would always ask, what if someone lies? And my answer was, then they go to hell, but they get an A in seminary. It was a great, great segue, because then I could talk about the plan of salvation and how we are

here to overcome through faith. In this world, you shall have tribulation, but I have overcome the world. So we would talk about the plan and how we are here to overcome through injustice, through the unfairness of life and to become powerful because we let those things refine us instead of burn us into ash. And it was a great beginning to the year. But back to my friend, there was a little silence for a moment. She said, okay, that's relevant. She said, he great beginning to the year. But back to my friend, there was a little silence for a moment. She said, okay, that's relevant. She said, he can go to the temple, but he's losing everything, isn't he? I said, that's right. I mean, he's heaping coals of fire on his head.

He can fool his bishop, but he cannot fool God. All things are known to God. Is it worth it? It's never worth it. Some people might make that calculation that like Judah, hey, I can play around if I want to. I can break my covenants anytime that I feel the desire or the urge or the temptation to do so. Or like Joseph, it doesn't matter what you throw at me.

It doesn't matter how unfair it is. I will serve the Lord. I will serve him at all hazards, at all injustice. When no good deed goes unpunished, I will serve the Lord. I will serve him at all hazards, at all injustice. When no good deed goes unpunished, I will serve the Lord and I will become, through the atonement of Christ, powerful. Spiritually, I will become the best version of myself through the atonement of Christ. And that's the plan. That's the plan. And the Lord will be with us. And even when we can't see that, because sometimes we are going through the valley of the shadow, that is the time to stretch our faith. You know, Lord, I believe, help thou mine unbelief. Let me stretch my faith to

believe that you are with me, even when I don't feel it, when I feel abandoned, like Nephi, like Joseph. But they weren't, and neither are we. We are never abandoned when we choose the Lord, and he will work through all those processes to make us something amazing. In the image of his son, what we were meant to be, what we were created to become. That's his desire. Let me read a statement by C.S. Lewis. He says, the hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men. And why? Because there's a purpose. Because his purpose is to bless us with everything that he has, that he wants to give us, but we have to be prepared to receive it or

it'll totally burn us to ash. And then C.S. Lewis goes on, his compulsion is our liberation, our liberation from the things that hold us back, from sin, of course, but even from our own limitations, from our weaknesses. He's going to liberate us from all those things and make them into strengths if we'll yield to this process. And it isn't yielding. It's as it says in Messiah 319, submitting to the Lord's plan without rebellion. And then we have our maybe moments, like we said, sometimes we're like, this is hard. This is hard. And it is.

It is. And we want to mourn with them that mourn and comfort those in need of comfort and lift up the arms that hang down and strengthen the people in need. We should be fellowshipping each other in our troubles and in our pain, but not forget the purpose for which those things are part of the plan. It's amazing what God can do with us. He can take even me and turn me into something divine if I keep choosing him in my affliction. And I don't doubt that the Lord will be with me, even when I don't feel it in the immediate sense. He is there. Actually, pretty happy ending to my friend's story. And there are so many times I've been privileged to see that. And it's not an ending because,

of course, there are still challenges and there are still trials, but there have been blessings along the way that are tender and nurturing and that continue to give us opportunities, of course, to grow and become, but to trust in the Lord more and more. And that is what I see again and again, as I work with people, that it's our choice, our choice to let him consecrate our affliction for our good or just to be miserable. Yeah. I was thinking about, as you're told that story, the author here of Genesis seems to be set on letting us know that Joseph and the Lord were very close. No matter how dark he got, where he was, either Potiphar's house or in prison, the Lord was with him. And then you think about people who do these terrible things, how come they're doing fine? And there's this moment, and I think

I'm getting outside of our lessons, so sorry about this, but I just want to jump quickly to Genesis 42, 21, where Joseph can overhear his brothers talking. This is later when they've returned to his life and they don't know it's him. It's maybe not as been as easy as we think for them. In verse 21, they're talking to each other. They said, we are verily guilty concerning our brother. We saw the anguish of his soul when he besought us. We would not hear. Therefore, is this distress come upon us? This has been held for them after making this decision.

Maybe they put on a brave face in public, but it sounds like in private. They are still hearing Joseph's cries. I have a quote here from Elder Holland right here at the end of a 2007 general conference message. He said, quote, to have the approval of your conscience when you are alone with your memories allows you to feel the spirit of God in a very personal way. So when those brothers got alone with their memories, you can see the torture that's happening there. And that's not a good thing. That's not a thing that I'm like, well, good for that, but it's a consequence. I do want to say that this is another real trial is that it

seems that people who make bad choices sometimes have these easy lives or get rich and famous. Mark Twain actually wrote two short stories. He wrote lots of short stories, but two of them were called one, the story of the bad little boy and the story of the good little boy. And the story of the good little boy, he just had trouble after trouble and was sometimes accused unfairly of things. And anyway, he just, you know, never really, really had an easy life. And the story of the bad little boy, I mean, he ends up rich, famous mayor of a town, but he's a terrible guy. And he dies in bed with a cigar and a beautiful woman, you know, I mean, it's really at a ripe old age. So and the wicked have their time in the sun. Satan does have some

power in this in this world, he can fuel the success of some very wicked people. And they can seem to have a better life or an easier life. But it's an illusion. That's again, my friend was thinking, my ex husband is having a great time with lots of money now, and no obligations. But she could see that like, this is just temporary. This, this is the test. This is the test. Don't be deceived by the fact that the wicked may have their day in the sun, and that day might last a long time. In the end, and in the final analysis, in the day of judgment, when the secret acts of men are revealed, they'll wish that the mountains could drop on them to cover their shame. And that's not going to happen. They will be revealed. It's just not worth it. It's just not

worth it. But that's a choice people make. They can seem to prosper. Again, this is the great irony. There's a great speech by Neal Maxwell, by the way, worth looking up called Irony, the Crest on the Bread of Adversity. It's a magnificent treatment of this subject about the greatest tests are the most ironic, where the bad guys seem to prosper and the good guys seem to get kicked in the teeth all the time. But don't be deceived. Don't be deceived. In this process, if we keep choosing God, what is coming is so tremendous. We used to have a sign in one of our seminary teacher offices that said, you know, when you work for the Lord, the pay may not be so great, but you can't beat the retirement.

Where are you putting your treasure? Because it's all going to work out for the righteous man. I want to read a couple of statements that I think are really a nice kind of wrapping away to this. John Taylor said this once, I used to think if I were the Lord, I would not suffer people to be tried as they are. But I have changed my mind on that subject. Now I think it purges out the meanness and corruption that stick around the saints like flies around molasses. He's like, no, that would be a mistake. That wouldn't be love. This is what C.S. Lewis is saying. The hardness of the Lord is better than the softness of men because we would let ourselves off the hook.

If we never ask our children to do hard things, is that really love? Or is that betrayal? If we try to wrap them in bubble wrap, yeah, what are we preparing them for? They're not going to be powerful. They're not going to be anti-fragile. They're going to become more fragile. So trials are a part of this journey. Now, in Preach My Gospel, there's this beautiful statement that isn't new. It wasn't new doctrine, but it's just nicely summarized in Preach My Gospel where it says, all that is unfair about life can be made right through the atonement of Jesus Christ. That is a terrific summary statement. It will be made right because God is fair. He allows this injustice to be a trial for us, to be a spiritual weight room where we can become

as powerful as we choose to become through Jesus Christ. And then when the Lord recompenses, like there's this, you know, look at this beautiful verse from Revelation that we know, right? And God shall wipe all tears from their world, you shall have tribulation. But this isn't over. It is but a small moment, relatively speaking. And it may seem like forever, and sometimes does but it's not it's not take three giant steps back and look again because there is something coming that is so amazing that it will heal all your wounds and wipe every tear from your eyes it will comfort every heart

now how does God measure things and I remember when I was looking up some of this stuff, I was reminded of this verse in Luke chapter six. The other was Revelations 21, if anybody's looking for that. But Luke's chapter six, verse 38, tells us how the Lord measures stuff. And what does he say? He says, good measure, pressed down and shaken together and running over. You know how some recipes call for a scant teaspoon or a scant cup of something? That's not how the Lord measures. There are no scant measurements in the Lord's compensations. It's good measure, pressed down, shaken together, get all those air pockets out of there and running over.

When the Lord returns to us what we have given to him in sacrifice and in choosing him in the midst of affliction, it will come back in a beautiful way. This next statement is from a book that I read when I was probably 16. For the first time that I read this book, I've read it a few times. It's a beautiful novel by a woman named Elizabeth Gouge. And it's in the 1800s or whatever. And there's sort of a legend involved. But anyway, these characters are really amazing characters. But there are a few characters that come together and strengthen each other in the midst of the trials of life. It's a beautiful story. But one of the characters is a doctor, a country doctor in this little seaside town in England. He is such a good man and he

ministers to these people and he is much loved. But the sorrow of his life is that he was never able to be a father because he had a hunchback. And that is not a large part of the story. It's sort of mentioned in passing, but that's why he couldn't find a woman to marry him because he was misshapen. So he becomes this doctor and he does good his whole life, but he was never able to have experience of being a father. Well, into his life comes a 16 year old boy who is an orphan, who is in desperate need of help. And the doctor actually heals him or helps him to heal physically from some

injuries, takes care of him in his home. And then when he's well enough and they're at the dinner table, he asks a little bit about the boy and what his circumstances is. And if he has a family that the doctor should help him return to. And when he hears that this boy is an orphan, the sort of catch in the doctor's heart, this little moment where he then offers himself to be this boy's father. And the boy has already felt the great compassion and goodness and love of this man.

And the boy's heart kind of catches. I'm paraphrasing. This isn't written exactly this way, but you see it come to life in these pages where the boy needs this so badly and sees how wonderful this man is and how he's offering himself to be this boy's father. He desperately needs this. And the doctor desperately needs his son. And they come together in this relationship

that endures and is stunningly beautiful. And this is what the author says in the book. She says, sometimes fortune took it into her head to lay upon a wound a salve of such value that a man becomes positively glad of the wound. Let me say that in a better way. God, because he has promised to do so, and he cannot lie, will lay upon our wounds a salve of such value as to make us positively glad of our wounds. Lehi taught this other great lesson, that we have to know the bitter to know the sweet. There is a purpose to pain. I met with a woman once who, it was around Christmas time, and she, I said, are you ready

for Christmas? And she had four kids. The oldest was in high school, I think. And she said, oh, I hate Christmas. Really? Why's that? She said, because they had a lot of money in their family. She said, Well, you know, my kids get anything they want anytime they want it. So when Christmas comes, I have to scour the earth to find the latest and greatest whatever to try to entertain them in that five minutes later, they're bored because you know,

they can buy it themselves. I'm like, how sad is that? Those kids have never had to wait for anything so they can't enjoy. You have to wait sometimes. You have to, deprivation isn't always a bad thing to kind of be without so that you can appreciate what it's like to have it. If we're protecting our kids or indulging them right and left with everything,

we're robbing them of the sweet because they never even know what it's like not to have all that sweetness around. They get tired of it and because they never even know what it's like not to have all that sweetness around. They get tired of it. They don't even appreciate it. So there are so many takeaways from this, right? But there are so many blessings that God gives us because of the affliction that we suffer. You're going to know the bitter. You will know the bitter. But if you don't become bitter and you keep choosing me, you don't even know how good it's going to be. But I'm telling you, it's going to be amazing. I will lay upon

your wounds a salve of such value that you will be glad for that wound because of the joy that you now feel. Now, another way to put that, Neo Maxwell, we find that sorrow can actually enlarge the mind and heart in order to give place, expanded space for later joy. I remember when I heard that, it was from a speech called Endure It Well in April of 1990.

I remember hearing that when he said that and it hit me so hard. I'm like, is that how it works? That is how it works, isn't it? Because happiness doesn't stretch our hearts. I mean, happiness is fun. It's great. And we should enjoy it when it comes.

But it does not require very much of us to be happy. It doesn't stretch us. But sorrow, sorrow stretches our hearts and minds. We can hardly believe how much we are feeling of pain and we're still breathing. It surprises us how much we can have a broken heart and continue to breathe. He called that the excavation of the soul. President Packer used to quote that little poem like Robert Browning Hamilton or somebody with lots of syllables that sounds like a poet. What was it? I walked a mile with pleasure, she chattered all the way, but left me none the wiser for all she had to say. I walked a mile with sorrow and not a word said she, but oh the things I learned from her when sorrow walked with me. These are testimonies that people have given us of what

sorrow can do, what pain can do, that there is a purpose that is grand. It is a grand design that God has for us. And he wants nothing less than this culminating glory and power that he can give us. Elder Holland kind of summarizes it this way. Some blessings come soon, some come late, and some don't come till heaven. But for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come. Christ has told us he will give us beauty for ashes and the oil of joy for mourning. That's the promise. I'm right here at my desk, and here is my Isaiah paperweight. We bought it in San Francisco, Ghirardelli Square, so many years ago. It was a

few years after the Mount St. Helens eruption, where ash covered that area like feet of snow, you know, just several feet of snow. And in this little shop of grass, there was a shelf that had many items, and it said that this glass had been made from the ashes of the Mount St. Helens eruption, and we were on a tight budget back in those days, but I went to Chris, and I said, are you okay if I buy this? I mean, it was like $25, but I said, are you okay if I buy this? Because they made beauty from ashes, and I keep it on my desk. I caught my Isaiah paperweight. This is the plan that God will give us beauty for ashes, good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over. There is no better plan. There is no better God. There is no greater savior. Lillian, I noticed with Joseph that he continues in the darkest places to have

incredible experiences. He's in prison and he's interpreting dreams. And acknowledging where that interpretation comes from. That's important, right? Because he says, these things come from God. It's not me. And we talk about, oh, how come the wicked prosper? I remember one very prominent celebrity said, I wish everybody could get rich and famous and do all that they ever dream of so they can see that it's not that great, that it's not the answer. So Joseph still, even in his darkest places, is having these divine experiences, which to me is a beautiful, maybe an application for us that in the middle of your trials and problems. Yeah, you're going to have these, God is with you. I'd rather be in prison, to be honest, and have God with me than be Judah and not really have a relationship with God. Looking back on my life, I think probably my most

spiritual experiences have come in a lot of really dark, hard times. Maybe it's because we draw close to the Lord that way. I'm friends with your daughter-in-law and your son. And what they've been through with the loss of Jennifer's father, Steve, you've seen that. And you've been close to that. You've known the Sorensen's longer than either John or I. And this seems to be a theme that they keep telling me, that in this darkness, they're having these divine experiences. If we choose, and they have chosen, it is, it's a choice. We can become bitter and angry. It's always available. Or we can just put our heads down and try to get through, or we can

grow, we can draw closer. So there really are those three paths, you know, only one of them is the best. And it makes us of something that we can only dream of, you know, it makes us into the likeness of our Savior. So it just, you know, there's some things that can only happen in the dark, in the valley of the shadow. And, you know, let's just also be clear that the Lord does give us moments of oasis. There are tender mercies. There are moments of chance to replenish or recharge. They may not come when we want them to, because we're stronger than we think we are. And the Lord wants us to learn that. But they do come, and the Lord is kind. And we do have friends that might reach out, or a neighbor, or somebody in our lives that

it becomes a dear friend at those times that become really precious gifts in our time of trouble. So if we have eyes to see, we can see that. And I hope we will, that there are those tender mercies that come, those little oases in the wilderness. Here's a moment, you know, to just refresh yourself and remind yourself that there is a flowing living water that will fill you if you are willing to drink of it. And then, of course, he even asks that guy, the one that's going to live. When you stare in front of Pharaoh again, will you mention me to him?

Because I'm a citizen of Hebrew, told him slavery and then imprisoned unjustly. If you don't mind, could you just like tell Pharaoh that? And maybe he would want to do something about that. And we didn't mention this, but these people were not the typical Egyptians. It was a group called the Hiskos that had invaded, kind of, they called them sort of a conglomeration of Asiatic tribes or whatever that had come over and taken over Egypt and were we're in power when Joseph is there in Egypt and does this amazing thing of interpreting Pharaoh's dream. The Lord's thinking, like, do we ever really think we're smarter than God?

This is so amazing to me because God's got a million irons in the fire and they all work out well. So here he's still thinking of Jacob and all those people who are going to be the tribes of Israel. And he puts Joseph in this place and gives Pharaoh a dream, because there is going to be this famine that's all going to bring everybody together. Anyway, all that good stuff coming next week. But he sends this dream and Joseph has the interpretation of these dreams. So the butler finally goes like, oh, I remember my sins this day. Oh, dear, I forgot to be grateful to that guy in prison. But now I remember, now that Pharaoh

has a dream, hey, there's this kind of cool Hebrew in prison who really told us everything we needed to know about our dreams, and they came true. So Pharaoh immediately sends for him. And after, you know, all these years, all these years, here comes Joseph humbly again saying, the interpretation will be given by God. I'm not going to take credit for this, but I can tap into that resource because I am, I am a child of God and I have the covenants in place and have been worthy. So he can draw upon that power and he interprets the dream and all of this. And that Pharaoh is so impressed and makes him second. I mean, this is amazing, but these are Hiskos people, because some people have asked, why is there no record of Joseph in Egypt? You know, there's been so much excavation and

so many monuments discovered and, you know, tombs in the pyramids and all, anyway, all this stuff. But Joseph is not, there's one place in Egypt that is called the Canal of Joseph. That's it. That seems to be the reference that might still exist to Joseph, that he built this canal, this waterway. You'd think that somebody of this stature who saved Egypt and many of the surrounding territories from starvation during the famine would maybe have a monument or some record because there really are a lot of hieroglyphics and there are records that have been discovered. But no, there's not anything but that canal. And why? Well,

because then people who had originally ruled Egypt came back into power. And it is suspected that they just destroyed all the monuments that the Hiskos had built. They tried to eradicate that unfortunate chapter in their history when they were out of power. However, we do have a record of Joseph in the Quran. There are 111 verses in the Quran that are about Joseph, and that tells the same story, that he was sold into slavery and became powerful in Egypt. Kind of an interesting detail that we don't have a lot of historical artifacts or anything that testify of Joseph, but this record is precious. This record is precious. It is mentioned in the Quran. And it's probably because the Hizbos were kind of an invader dynasty that then was thrust back out of Egypt and their monuments

destroyed. There's a verse in chapter 41 that I just love. And it seems to be the summary of Joseph and it's from Pharaoh. It's Genesis 41, 38. He says, he hears from Joseph and Joseph interprets the dream. And he said, can we find such a one as this, a man in whom the spirit of God is. I think of everything we've talked about, he's kept his covenants, he's submitted to these horrendous trials, and this is the end result. He is something else. He's incredible. It's something else. And a man of that power, that stature, Pharaoh of Egypt, who could have commanded, you know, and did have the power of her life and death. But he says, wow, this is something about this guy that is different from anything I've ever seen.

And then just in the next verse too, thou art none as discreet and wise as thou art. And I like what Lily said about, we can go through bitterness without becoming bitter. I just, I can't see any evidence of Joseph going, what is going on or looking heavenward? Why is this happening? I don't see any evidence of him griping about it.

He says in verse 13 of 40, also, have I done nothing that they should put me into the dungeon? But he's talking to one of those whose dreams he interprets. But we don't have any evidence that he gets angry with God here. Well, and I think we can be clear on that because anger and bitterness drive out the spirit. Here all the time, the spirit will not always strive with men. It can't. And Elder Scott talked about this once, about how anger really makes it hard to receive revelation. And these powerful

negative emotions drive the spirit away. We're making natural conclusions here based on the principles of the gospel that are very clearly taught to us that you can't do wrong and feel right. You can't be bitter and have the spirit. Those are mutually exclusive situations. So yes, even though we have to make those conclusions, but we know that those are the principles on which revelation is based, on which these gifts are based on which the spirit is based. The spirit has to be at home in us. We understand that we're going to have moments where we do protest the unfairness of life. We should be compassionate to ourselves about that. But don't land in it.

Yeah. Don't stay there. Don't live there. Yeah. Come back to the light. I wanted to do something real quick before we wrap up. Jesus isn't mentioned in these chapters, but I think we can find him. One, of course, working with Joseph, being the God who is with Joseph. The Lord was with Joseph. Yeah. So we can kind of see the savior here too. Also, you can see a type where Joseph is a lot like Jesus. And we can learn a little

bit about Jesus from Joseph. The fact that he saves the very people who reject him is a type of Jesus that he was sold. 20 pieces of silver as opposed to 30. Yeah, I was reading about that. And it said that because of his younger age, for him, it was 20. It would have been 30 for an older slave that Jesus was sold for. Yeah, interesting. And he was forgotten. The chief butler, it says in chapter 40, verse 23, forgot him. Oh yeah, there was this guy. Yeah. And it reminds me of what did Isaiah say? We turn our face away from him. He was despised, rejected. Isaiah 53, we hid our faces from him. Yeah. And then verse 38 of the 41, can we find anyone who has the spirit of God like this? There is none so discreet and wise as thou art. That sounds to me like a Savior, a Jesus type verse, right?

Everyone spoke as this man. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I see, you know, even though the Savior is not listed here, I think you can find him. We remember that the God of the Old Testament is Jehovah. Yeah, right. He's here. He is the story here. He is working with his people.

And we see the Lord in small caps there. Yeah. He's the one giving the interpretations. Joseph knows that. These interpretations belong to God. They're coming from him. And can I just say that I know some people have a hard time with the Old Testament. And it's a tough book.

Let's face it. And it's imperfect. We know that there are errors in the Old Testament, some inadvertent and accidental and others more intentional. And I'm so grateful that we have the restoration of all things. And as Joseph Smith so clearly put it in the Articles of Faith, that we believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. So that gives us a little bit of latitude in understanding some of the difficult passages here.

And as I've learned in my own life, the best commentary for the Old Testament and the Bible itself is the Book of Mormon. We can make sure that we are seeing the connections between the gospel as taught and the Lord as revealed in the Book of Mormon and the Lord as revealed, you know, Jehovah of the Old Testament and Christ of the New Testament, and realize that this is the same person. A long time ago, I read that there were some people who even sort of had a religious philosophy that there was a God of the Old Testament who was a harsh, nasty, mean guy, and that Christ had to rescue the world from that guy so that the Jesus Christ,

the God of the New Testament, had rescued us from the God of the Old Testament. I'm kind of like, same guy. That's the same guy. So, I mean, I think it's important to realize, like, if we're not seeing the compassion, the consistency of Jehovah with the God that we learn of in the Book of Mormon and the New Testament, then we're missing something. And we need to go a little further. And understand that statement by C.S. Lewis, the hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men. Like, wait a minute, let me reframe this. Let me look again and see how God was working to bless and to save. We just went through the flood. Well, why did God do that? Because he's an angry, unforgiving, nasty guy? No. Of course, he's none of those things. He's the opposite. So why did he do that? Well, because there are all these children being

born into those families. Talk about dysfunctional families. Like we have gone past dysfunction to wholesale, you know, ripening and iniquity. They are completely lost to the spirit. They have extinguished the light that they were born with, that everybody is born with. And so now as spirits come into those homes, we can see this as students of human behavior, that if you have a child go into those kinds of circumstances, that light that that child is born with will be extinguished before they reach the age of accountability. So what are we going to do? Keep sending spirits that will never have a chance to actually exercise their agency? No, not because I desired it, not because I didn't love them. I offered them the same thing I offered to everybody else, but they have rejected it completely. This is that would defeat the chance of those children. We're going to wipe this slate and start again so that we can give people a chance. It is love. It is compassion. And where is the compassion in letting people continue to act in wickedness? They have already chosen. They have exercised

their agency to the utmost. Why do we need to leave them on the earth for all that time? And that's going to happen again when the Israelites leave Egypt in the future to come back with Moses to the promised land. And Joshua leads them in and says, eliminate these people. Why? Because just the Israelites are favored of God and the Canaanites, he doesn't like so much? No, because the Canaanites also had ripened in a nickly. His hardness is kinder than our softness. Are we really saying we're nicer than God? Like, let's not go there. Let's understand what charity really is. That is who Christ is. And that is who the Jehovah of the Old Testament is. It is that same divine, perfect deity who loves the world and every creature in

it. And he inviteth all to come, but he loves the spirits that have not come to the earth too. I often tell my students, just keep at it. You know, just don't quit. And the day will come that you'll get that break. And it does come for Joseph. And it ends up, 41 ends up with Joseph in a pretty good spot. It is a beautiful ending. He has the second chariot in Egypt. He marries Asenath.

We don't know a lot about this, but Joseph must have taught her the gospel. She understood at least enough to know that when Jacob comes later to bless their sons, and she sees that birthright blessing. That's verse 51 and 52. Yes. And as has happened before in this family, it's not always the eldest son that gets the birthright. Joseph receives the birthright, not his 10 older brothers. And here Ephraim will have the birthright. Joseph receives the birthright, not his 10 older brothers. And here Ephraim will

have the birthright blessing. Now, it is exciting that these two tribes preserved to come forth in the latter days. You can see that calling of Ephraim, Joseph Smith being from Ephraim, most of the early members of the church being from Ephraim. This believing blood comes down through the centuries and it lands in Europe, basically. And then they immediately go to Manasseh to share the gospel with that other tribe that is their brother tribe. Pretty powerful ending. Yeah, it's almost like a foreshadowing where Joseph saves all of the house of Israel. He's in a position to, by feeding them when they come over for the famine and we're like, oh, so in the last days, Joseph, the tribe will save the world, have that primary responsibility to go gather Israel. That's right. To be that vehicle, the instruments.

This grand design is so exciting to see that all of these things are put in place. I hope that we will remember as we read through the old Testament and see these great designs come to fruition, that there is more to come and that don't bet against him. Don't second guess. He has a plan and it's a perfect plan. Wow, we've discussed so many good principles today of going through trials and difficulties about not backing down temptation. Stand on holy ground, even if you have to quickly depart something that used to be safe and is no longer safe. I don't want to say every story is going to have its perfect happy ending, but in the Lord's scheme, you will have your chapter 41, your happy ending. And there's more to come after

that. But it is a happy ending. The Lord does promise that, but you're right. It doesn't always happen in this life. I'm glad you made that connection because I also would encourage everyone to read John. It's 2 Nephi 3, where Joseph of Egypt is connected with the latter days. We have so much. There will be a great seer and he'll come from his loins and he'll be named out the name of his father. And we're like, whoa, there's a beautiful connection there. And why would he not have a vision like that after what he's been through? No greater prophecies than the prophecies of Joseph. And I think that second Nephi three is where we look for that.

Yeah. Then we see that. There is a book of Joseph that we don't have right now, but we do get a little taste of that in the book of Mormon. And he must have been a great seer, prophecies that he was given, the visions that he was given to see his legacy. What a tender mercy that the Lord gave to him that all of this will culminate in the dispensation of the fullness of times. And this will be your seed. I remember one student asking me once, why didn't the Lord just move him to Egypt? Why does he have to go through so much, right?

And I said, well, the Lord changes his geography in order to save the family. What he goes through changes him into the person that will choose to save the family. So it's not just a geographic change for him to save the family. It's a character change for him to save the family. And that is the business of God. He has perfectly provided us with the opportunity to, you know, what does he say? Moses 139, this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life. I've been an eternal life is all about the process. It's all about becoming about overcoming that fallen nature through obedience to the covenants that we make

and living in such a way that the Holy Ghost can sanctify us and bring us back into his presence. It's the means by which this happens. And we are meant to be. We are made to be anti-fragile. And if we don't have these stressors, we end up being a lump of clay. I wonder if he doesn't go through all this suffering, if he does forgive his brothers, right? Because I don't know if I could. Maybe just all this suffering he's been through has cleansed his soul to the point where he can do it. He's able to make that incredible decision to forgive them. And again, it's his response to the suffering, right?

We have little statements some places that say things like, you know, life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond. And that's so true, except I think it's more like 1% and 99%. I think that might state it even more accurately. It's really all about how we choose to respond to what happens to us. And Joseph, he probably had his moments, like we've said, but he doesn't land on those moments. He lands in his faith, and he stretches his his faith and he grows into this amazing character that there's nobody as discreet and wise in all the land, not many on the earth, acquired that goodness because he has chosen the Lord all through his affliction. Isn't this such a great story? The story of Joseph, such a great story. There are not too many happy stories in the Old Testament.

Yeah. Joseph is an oasis. He is an oasis himself. We could read this story and feel the enjoyment of this reward that comes to him, even in this life, as just a preview of the rewards to come. Chief Justice Roberts was speaking at a commencement and of his eighth grade son, I think. And he said, well, usually these commencement speakers will wish you well. I'm not going to do that. He says, I'm going to wish that someone will reject you

because then you will learn the value of loyalty. I'm going to hope that someday someone takes you for granted. I hope somebody gets in your face when you lose. And he goes, oh, it's so good. You would love it because it's that kind of, you're not going to learn anything if your life is a piece of cake. No. And the sad thing is, is that we waste our suffering. You know, we just, we waste our suffering. We're going to suffer. There's no way out of this life without tribulation. How can I get the most from my suffering?

Exactly. I mean, really, really juice that thing, you know? Bring it out and learn and grow because we're going to suffer. One of my children was going through some really, you know, big challenges. And as I was accepting their feelings and trying to comfort and, and support this child in their journey, I did say, I said, look, I'm going to say something that's going to sound like a threat. And it's, it's not meant to be a threat. It's, I'm just trying to share my experience. I said, there is always something to learn from difficulty. That is the design of the plan, this perfect plan. There's always something to learn from difficulty. That is the design of the plan, this perfect plan.

There's always something to learn. There's a way for us to grow and to become, to be refined. And I said, you know, you don't have to grow during your trials, but the Lord loves you and he knows who you are. And if you don't learn what you could learn in this trial this time, he's going to give you another chance. It may come back. Learn it the first time. Learn it the first time. So at least the next time you can go on to lesson two.

I've always called that the law of mortality. That's right. Lessons will be taught until they are learned. We are covenant people. And that is a part of the deal that he will remind us. Sister Julie Beck said that as a teenager, just home evening, every single week, they sang love at home. Do we have to sing this again? Why do we sing this every time? And her dad said, when you have learned lesson one, we will go on to lesson two.

I remember that. It's exactly that. And the sooner we bow to that principle, the very much better. The sooner we humble ourselves, submit to the lessons. And it is, it's this yielding. It's this ability to yield to it that we need to cultivate and not fight against it, not combat the very things that can refine us, not reject them, not oppose them, but yield to them, submit to them and become humble and pliable. It's a real journey. Dr. Anderson Lilly, this has been just fantastic. Really a lot of fun and to have you back,

right? John and I are grateful we're still around and we're grateful you were willing to come back. I think our listeners would be interested in your journey as a scholar, a therapist, a mother, a faithful Latter-day Saint. What's that journey been like for you? Well, I've enjoyed the journey and I'm so grateful for opportunities. I mean, I think you mentioned this before, John, that, you know, how many people have ended up where they thought they would, weren't surprised by life, or didn't have some, you know, big, big turns or brick walls that that we hit along the way. I don't know that I can pinpoint just one thing. I know I mentioned last time, and I will mention again, the great legacy that I had for my parents who were seekers of truth and taught me that example of humility. They were brilliant people who came from humble circumstances but had access because of their own great efforts for higher education. And always acknowledged the superiority of God to any earthly wisdom.

And when there was a conflict, it was never, oh, well, maybe God's wrong. It was always like, let's figure out why God is right, because we already know he is. And that humility, I think, is so key in our journeys to trust the Lord. I had a friend who knew President Monson very well and said that if he had chosen the title to his own biography, he would have referred to Proverbs 3, 5, and 6. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. And all the ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths. Because he lived his life by that. And that became a very precious scripture to him. Well, without it necessarily having come from that verse, although I love that verse,

that was the path I was taught. And I am so grateful that it just made sense to me to be acknowledging God's superiority, to be grateful for this creature of such omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence, to recognize and bow before that power and greatness, and to be so grateful that he's willing to share with me. And that if I am a seeker of truth in, you know, as we read in the Doctrine and Covenants, through faith, but also through study, diligently looking at the secular as well as the sacred, but the sacred has primacy in my life, because I trust the Lord. You know, you go to graduate school, and let me tell you, the therapies are really a dangerous place, because a lot of therapists go off the deep end. They're often cutting edge on the secular, and they're willing to throw God overboard at the moment's notice and put in place

philosophies of man as opposed to the wisdom and knowledge and power of God. And so when I went back to graduate school, after my kids were all in school, I used the scriptures as my Urim and Thummim. And if I learned something in school that didn't match up with the scriptures, okay, I'll learn it for the test. It's good to understand what people's philosophies are, but I'm not going to believe it because I trust the Lord and I know he's right in everything. And if I continue to seek, then he will reveal more and more understanding to me of why he is right. It's not if he is right, it's why is he right. And we gain wisdom and understanding as we trust in him. Here's this being of all power, but then here's this guy with a PhD and we're going to trust him. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That person with a PhD who thinks he knows better

than God missed the whole point of education, which is to be humble. The whole point of education is to realize how much we don't know, and that we should be all seekers of truth. And here we have a God who's willing to share it, and he puts it in scripture, and he gives us the spirit. And he tells us that we can know all things through the power of the Holy Ghost. We can have a witness of that truth. Don't doubt. I mean, wasn't it President Uchtdorf who said, you know, doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. Are you kidding? Are you kidding? I think we can't overstate the importance of humility as we study. I don't understand how the God of the Old Testament is as kind and loving as the God of the Book of Mormon or the God of the New Testament.

Then I need to study more, not reject, just study more, pray more, ponder more, seek. And the Lord will reveal it because he wants nothing more than to share all of his light and truth with his children. But if we think we're already full of light and truth without him, how silly is that? Where do we think our good ideas come from in the first place? All our good ideas came from him anyway. So it's just a joy to see that if we do have that and use the gospel as our sort of sifting tool, as we gain learning in the world and through our journeys, we really lose out. We don't use Christ as our north and the scriptures as our guide. It protects us from the wiles of the adversary. It protects us from deception. It

protects us from falsehoods to know that like, no, this is the truth. And this one God only will I worship, who is Jesus Christ, not the God in the secular temples. What a great gift we can give to our children if we can teach them this humility, this gratitude for the light and truth that God wants to give us as soon as we are prepared to receive it. And yes, it blends beautifully with all the knowledge that we can gain from other places. We can be open and unafraid to study anywhere, learn from the fountain of truth, and then learn from other good sources. We embrace everything that is beautiful and good and learn from it and see how all the good things blend and expand our understanding and our gratitude for what God has given us

in his gospel. I love to learn. In fact, I feel God's love when I learn. That is one of my big love languages with God. When I have a new idea or I make a new connection or I understand something better, I feel so loved because I know where it comes from and he's willing to share it, even with Willie Anderson.

I'll always be grateful for that. I'm grateful that my children are seekers of truth. It's such a gift. I prayed for that. I prayed that my grandchildren will have a desire for the real truth and they'll want to drink from the living waters because that's where the truth is. Everything else, if we do it right, just adds to our gratitude for what God gives us freely. It's good for us to be here. It's good for us to be here. We say that every time and it really is, really is so much fun.

Thank you. We want to thank Dr. Lily Anderson for being here. Thank you to all of you for listening. We are grateful for you and your support. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorenson, and our sponsors, David and Verla Sorenson. And we hope all of you will join us next week on Follow Him. Thank you.