followHIM - Isaiah 58-66 Part 1 • Dr. Ross D. Baron • Oct. 3 - 9

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith. And I'm John, by the way. We love to learn. We love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow Him. Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host, and I am here with my co-host, whom I shall describe like this. For since the beginning of the world, men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen. A co-host likened to John, by the way. John, when I read that verse in Isaiah 64, I immediately thought of you. Never since the beginning of world have men heard or perceived or the eye seen someone like John,

Starting point is 00:00:52 by the way. Was it the Greeks who invented co-hosts? I was going to make a joke about neither hath the eye seen, because you love to say your favorite phrase is, I have a face that's perfect for audio. Let's watch this on audio only. Yes. What a beautiful verse. Isaiah 64, verse 4. Sadly, it's not about you, John. It's about the things that God has prepared for those who wait for him. We have been studying Isaiah now for the last, what, John, has it been four weeks we've been studying Isaiah. We're on our fifth and final lesson. So we needed somebody who could bring us home, give us a good finish to our Isaiah lessons this year. So who's here with us?

Starting point is 00:01:35 I'm so excited to read this bio because it's so interesting. We have Dr. Ross Barron with us today. He was born and raised in Southern California, joined the church when he was 18 and served a mission, sounds like not much later, in Argentina, Buenos Aires South, which was divided and then finished in Argentina, Bahia Blanca. When he returned, he came home, met and fell in love with Kathleen Ann Bolton and they were sealed in the Los Angeles temple. He has nine children, five boys and four girls, received a bachelor's degree from BYU Provo in finance, a master's degree and a PhD from USC in religion and social ethics, and was involved in business and entrepreneurship before he went to work full-time as an institute director and CES Coordinator in Southern California at the Glendora and

Starting point is 00:02:25 Claremont Institutes. And after 12 years as an Institute Director and Coordinator, came to teach at BYU-Idaho in the summer of 2005. From 2018 to 2019, he was a visiting professor at BYU-Jerusalem where the whole family lived for a year. He said, I love to teach and learn. For me, there's nothing so exciting as being in a classroom with students who are anxious, bright, and ready to learn by study and by faith. And Hank, he listed some unique things that he has done. This is going to be fun to read. Swam across the San Francisco Bay for the Escape from Alcatraz Triathlon. Okay.

Starting point is 00:03:10 He went on The Price is Right and won a stove, a mop, and a barrel sauna. He went on the History Channel to represent the church. And some of these we've got to ask him about. Participated in a radio show in Southern California where callers could ask any questions about the church. He played the drums with a group of Institute students at the Hard Rock Cafe in Los Angeles, played the drums at Guitars Unplugged in the fall of 2005 and the winter of 2006, and their group made it to the best of in both semesters. He played chess in the U.S. Open Tournament in 1991 in Los Angeles.

Starting point is 00:03:43 My goodness. He has spoken at, oh, I'm not done, Hank. He has spoken at Christian colleges and universities on the church. He has led six community firesides about the church where thousands attended. And this is the part that makes me want to jot this down. He's featured on the website fairlds.org. You can probably watch those firesides. And so I'm so glad to have Dr. Barron with us today with such a fascinating bio. Thank you for joining us today. Dr. Barron from

Starting point is 00:04:13 Rexburg right now? A little outside of Rexburg, Idaho Falls. We're a little farming community called Ryrie. Ryrie. I've been to Ryrie. Welcome, Dr. Barron. We're happy you're here. Well, I'm thrilled to be with you guys, and I think you're doing a great work, and I love listening to your podcast, so I'm honored to be with you today. Oh, cool. Cool. We love it when the listener comes on because they know exactly how this works. What we're going to do is turn this over to you. We want to be here. We want to listen, maybe throw in an insight or two, but tell us what do our listeners need to know? If you're taking students into the book of Isaiah for even the first time, what do they need to know before they even get into chapters of Isaiah?

Starting point is 00:04:56 Great. I wanted to do something interesting, I thought, to start. I was listening to your podcast with Sean Hopkins with respect to Psalm 22, and he kept bringing up Isaiah 53. And like John in my intro talked about, I'm a convert. I grew up Jewish. So I grew up 100%. My mom and dad are Jews. My grandparents are Jews. My great-grandparents are Jews.

Starting point is 00:05:20 I 100% have a Jewish background. Went to Hebrew school as a little kid. Wow. Bar Mitzvahed when I was 13. And so when I was a senior in high school, what happened was, I don't know why 100%, but I decided to read Matthew, Mark my home, not one. And so I was kind of this curious kid and I thought I'm going to read the New Testament, except I don't, we don't have one. I don't have access. I've never laid eyes on one. So I went to my high school library and I went and asked if I could read the New Testament. And she gave me, you know, the Phillips modern English version of the New Testament. I didn't know there were different versions and it was, you know, the Phillips modern English version of the New Testament. I didn't know there were different versions. And it was, you know, hey, man, come follow me.

Starting point is 00:06:08 Yo, dude, the version. And I thought, wow, Jesus is awesome. Like this is way easier than the Hebrew Bible. And I read it, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I had an experience that using Latter-day Saints speak, I felt the Holy Ghost. Back then, I knew I was feeling something powerful, but it was testifying to me that it was true. So I didn't know quite what to do with that. I had a friend in high school who was a Latter-day Saint. There was only four, I think, Latter-day Saints in my high school,

Starting point is 00:06:34 four or five. And we were going into a class about five minutes before class. I said, Craig, what do you guys believe? This 17 and a half year old gives me like the plan of salvation perfectly. I was blown away. It was so amazing how he laid it out to me. I said, Hey, you know, can I go maybe come over to your house? Just one little backstory here. A couple of days before this born again, Christian guy had invited me to the Maranatha club, which was a high school club for Christians. I went to it and it was very nice. I didn't feel anything particularly well, but they were really nice people. And afterwards, one of the young men came to me and said, so Ross, what'd you think? And I said, oh, thanks for inviting me and all this kind of stuff. Then he

Starting point is 00:07:20 said something that literally changed my life. He said, whatever you do, don't read the Book of Mormon. It's the devil's book. Like that came out of nowhere. That guy has no idea how many baptisms he's responsible for. But in the end, that's why that next day I was talking to that young man. So I said, hey, is there a way I can get a copy of the Book of Mormon? Like, how do I get one? Can I buy one?

Starting point is 00:07:48 He goes, no, no, no. Come over to my house after school. We've got a basket full of them. But anyway, that's weird. We drove to his house after school and his dad was there. He was a fireman. So he had that day off and we ended up talking for hours. And he goes, listen, I said, can I get a copy of the book of Mormon? Can you imagine like if somebody came, Hey, could you please get me a copy of the book? So it gives me the book of Mormon. And he said, well, I said, can I get a copy of the Book of Mormon? Can you imagine if somebody came, hey, could you please get me a copy of the Book of Mormon? I'm like, well, I don't know. Yeah, I can get you a copy of the book. So he gives me the Book of Mormon and he said, well, do you like to read? I said, I love to read. So he gave me Jesus the Christ. He gave me Articles of Faith by James E. Tomlinson. He gave me A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGran Richards. Oh my word.

Starting point is 00:08:16 And so I left his house and I was like, hey, thanks so much. And in about three weeks, I read the Book of Mormon, Jesus jesus christ article of faith and marvelous work and wonder oh my word now i'm not saying i want to be clear anybody who's read jesus of the christ i'm not saying i understood all of it right but i felt the power of it and was while reading the book of mormon i had another experience similar to what i'd had while reading matthew mark luke and john like i'd had this experience and so i, Luke, and John. I'd had this experience. And so I went, three and a half weeks later, knocked on their door and basically said, how do I join your church?

Starting point is 00:08:50 What do I do? Now, I tell you all that because when Dr. Hopkins was talking about Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53, now you got to remember, I was raised with the Hebrew Bible. And so what happened was I had kind of immersed myself, Book of Mormon, right? All this kind of great stuff. I'd read Matthew, Mark, and Luke and John. I was having missionary discussions, but then all of a sudden I kind of had to step back like, wait, is Jesus real? And you know what the two chapters were that put me over the edge?

Starting point is 00:09:19 Psalm 22, Isaiah 53. Oh my word. When I read Psalm 22 through the lens of having read the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ, Articles of Faith, Marvelous Word of Wonder, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and then when I read Isaiah 53, it was the capstone for me. And I cannot overemphasize the power and the way my, again, my eyes were opened and I was able to see that this truly was talking about the master.

Starting point is 00:09:47 I was talking about Jesus Christ. So when you say, well, what do people need to know? What would someone need to know about Isaiah? I think what they need to know, and if we could, if you don't mind, if we could go to 1 Nephi 19.23 to start, to me, this is what we would have to start with. So first Nephi 1923, and a lot of times what people will do is they'll focus on the idea of likening. But if I could just read this, this is Nephi speaking. I did read many things unto them, his brethren, which were written in the books of Moses, but this line, but that I might more

Starting point is 00:10:23 fully persuade them to believe in the Lord, their Redeemer. I did read unto them that was written by the prophet Isaiah. So if somebody came to me and said, Hey, Ross, do I need to know? Look, I can tell you the time about Isaiah road, and I can tell you some background about the Kings that he was over and the area he was in. But I would say the single most important thing is that when you read Isaiah, you're going to learn more about Jesus Christ. You're going to learn more about the Lord,

Starting point is 00:10:52 your Redeemer than anywhere else. And if we could also go to 2 Nephi 11, verse 8, and this is when Nephi is about to introduce all of the kind of Isaiah chapters. And in verse 8, excuse me, verse 2, we're going to read verse eight later. And now I, Nephi, write more of the words of Isaiah for my soul delighteth in his words, for I will liken his words unto my people and I will send them forth unto all my children. And then this line for he verily saw my redeemer, even as I have seen him. So in answering that question, I would say there is no question that this is a Christ-centered book and that this is, we can learn about Jesus, about his nature,

Starting point is 00:11:32 his character, his attributes, his perfections. We can learn about the plan. Isaiah, I like to do a subject index with my students, but I'll talk about that a little later too. But you can learn about premortality, mortality, post-mortality about Jesus in Isaiah. That was a long answer to your question, but yeah. That's great. So what's kind of fun about that is that clearly Nephi saw Christ in those Isaiah chapters. And I suppose having them on the brass plates wanted to share that with everybody. But I love that to more fully persuade them to believe in their Redeemer. And so clearly he sees Jesus in those chapters. That's right. That's exactly right.

Starting point is 00:12:15 I want to go back to your conversion story. How did this sit with your family and everything? Was that difficult? Yeah. So I think that's a great question. And I would say this, that my mom and dad, I pay tribute to them. They were amazing parents, super loving. My grandparents, again, very Jewish. It's hard to, if you haven't come from that background, I mean,

Starting point is 00:12:36 it was a very Jewish background. And of course they were freaking out when I joined the church. It was at a time, this was pre-1978. So the blacks hadn't got the priesthood yet. BYU is known kind of as a racist university. There was all these kinds of things going on. So it was hard. It was a very difficult thing. What changed it for them, honestly, kind of funny. I was working for my father. My dad had a big medical distribution company and I'd cut my hair and I'd done my dental work and I'd paid off my car and my dad knew all that. And I had received a mission call. He didn't know what that was. And he didn't know I'd received a mission call. I was working down in the warehouse and I got this

Starting point is 00:13:15 like, Ross Barron, come up to the front desk, please. Which meant my dad wanted to talk to me. So I went upstairs to the executive offices and my dad says, Hey, I just want to just say, we're so impressed. You've cut your hair and you paid says, Hey, I just want to just say, I was so impressed. You know, you've cut your hair and you paid off your truck. You're done. I was like, thanks dad. And then he was talking to him later that evening. He and my mom were talking to my sister and my sister who's three years older than me

Starting point is 00:13:35 said, Oh, you guys don't know what that means. And I'm like, what? He's going on a mission. And so the next day I got Ross Barron, come up to the front desk, please. And so I went up to the, and my dad says, I, you just need to be honest with me. Are you going on a mission? And I said, I am. He said, where are you going? I said, I'm going to Argentina. Well, can we visit, you know, and you know, all those kinds of things. But it was the mission when I got back from the mission and they saw the fruits of the mission. Again, another Isaiah passage, you know, that the show of their countenance doth witness against them. I think Isaiah wouldn't be

Starting point is 00:14:11 upset if we said the show of their countenance doth witness for them. And I think they saw that I had become a new creature in Christ. I'd become a new being. And to this day, my parents, they defend the church. They're in circles that none of us could ever get in, like in Southern California and Los Angeles. And if somebody says anything about the church, man, they're there. They defend, they support. So initially rocky and then grew to become amazing. How beautiful. Wow. Hank, this has been a great podcast already. All we did was the introduction. This is fantastic. What a great story. Oh, man. When you got to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in the King James version, did you still like it then?

Starting point is 00:14:57 I did. In fact, I felt more. That's funny. I felt more at home. I mean, I liked the Phillips Modern. You're 17 and a half, you're reading that. But again, I was used to the Hebrew Bible. I was used to Hebrew. When I got the King James and it was a little more poetic, but beautifully written, it was a powerful experience for me. So yeah. Forgive my ignorance, but so you weren't Orthodox Jewish, but you were practicing. You were reading the Hebrew. You could read Hebrew. Yeah. So in my family, we have a blend of Orthodox conservative reform. So we get all of them together.

Starting point is 00:15:39 We had, of course, Passover and all the holy days, and we did all of that. I'll tell you, fast forward, when I was at USC getting my PhD, I took classes at Hebrew union. They had a reciprocal relationship with USC and I was essentially in rabbinic. I was with these rabbis, the rabbinic students. And I would come from Institute. I would come with my white shirt and tie and my suit on. And, and I was with like these other guys and the guy that taught this particular class was David Ellenson, who was the president of Hebrew Union. Wonderful man. Now they did not know that I was a Jewish convert, but I would say like Hebrew things and I would even speak some Yiddish. And Yiddish is kind of the way Jews speak on the street because Hebrew is like the language of God. So if you're Orthodox, you don't speak Hebrew kind of with other people, you speak Yiddish.

Starting point is 00:16:25 So my grandparents spoke Yiddish. My great-grandparents spoke Yiddish. My parents spoke a little Yiddish. But anyway, so I knew enough. Anyway, I would say like the Hebrew word or the Yiddish word, and they'd be like, man, Latter-day Saints are amazing. How could you possibly know that? I'd be like, it's like unbelievable. It was incredible.

Starting point is 00:16:46 We learned this stuff in primary, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, sacrament meeting stuff, man. Priesthood meeting. Wow. That's great. What a great story. Thank you for that.

Starting point is 00:16:56 How do you want to approach these chapters, Ross? We want our listeners to love these chapters like you. Yes. And they should love these chapters. Like, it's incredible. I'm so excited. So I teach writings of Isaiah at BYU-Idaho. And this is how I kind of do my writings of Isaiah class.

Starting point is 00:17:13 So my students come first day and they always ask, hey, we read your syllabus and you don't, what book are we supposed to get? And I go, you're going to get the book of Isaiah. And they're like, really? Who wrote that? Like they, you know, get their pencils out. We're just going to read the book of Isaiah in the scriptures. No, no, no. We get that brother Barron. We want to know what book though we should get, what commentary. And I say, we're going to go the hard way. We're going to go and we're going to read the text. And at first that surprises them. But one of my things that I'd like to do, one of the purposes I'd love to do with you guys today is have John, by the way, Hank Smith, Ross Barron kind of model how we would look at a text or how we would look at the scriptures. And one of the things I do when

Starting point is 00:18:00 I frame this is I say, you can take a chapter, say, of Isaiah. The first thing I want you guys to do, these would be my students. I just want you to go through, say, the verses and just circle or write down every name that Isaiah gave for God. Anytime there's a name for God, write it down. And here's the deal. And I think you guys know this, but the Hebrew word for name is Shem. And it means more than kind of, I call John, John, or I call Hank, Hank. It actually had significance in terms of status. So we know about name changes. Saul becomes Paul, Avram becomes Abraham, Sarai becomes Sarah. And these things have significance. New names mean something's happened in terms of your status. And we even know that, for example,

Starting point is 00:18:50 in our world. If you get a PhD, people now call you doctor. So there's been a change in the status of the name. So I just say, we're just going to take a chapter, go through, find all the names for God. Okay. Now, one of the most amazing things about Isaiah, if you want to have a great experience, start in chapter one, go to chapter 66 and just create a name list. Isaiah is the most prolific name giver for God anywhere in scripture. No one has more names and each name is a prism, is a window into who God is. So it's not just an academic exercise. It's literally to have you say, wow, I'm going to be more fully persuaded to believe in Jesus because Isaiah is going to teach me about all his character attributes and perfections. And I'm going to learn about these names so for example i just in isaiah 58 through

Starting point is 00:19:46 66 here's some of the names for and these are through all these chapters god lord redeemer now by the way redeemer as a noun isaiah is the most prolific user of the word redeemer of any prophet okay lord thy god here's another one. The Holy One of Israel. That's one you normally would think, oh yeah, Holy One of Israel. Guess who started it? Isaiah. Now the first mention of Holy One of Israel is 2 Kings 19, but 2 Kings 19 is Hezekiah is the king. Isaiah is the prophet. Now the psalmist uses Holy One of Israel as well, but we don't always know the dating of the Psalms. Are they post-Isaiah, pre-Isaiah? I don't totally know. But in any way, Holy One of Israel. Savior is also mentioned in Isaiah 58 through 66. Here's a powerful one.

Starting point is 00:20:39 The Mighty One of Jacob. Wow. The mighty one of Jacob, Lord God. Here's another one. It's a noun phrase. I that speak in righteousness. That's his name. I that speak in righteousness. That's Isaiah 63 verse one. Also, it might interest people.

Starting point is 00:20:56 Isaiah 58 through 66. Our father. Our father is mentioned twice. Our potter. He's the potter. We're the clay and God of truth. So those are some names. So again, if we were in a class right now, we'd take a chapter.

Starting point is 00:21:12 We're just going to go through, find the names, and then we're going to have a discussion. What do we learn from the names? How does each name teach us something different? Tell me what you guys think when you hear the word redeemer, when you hear the one holy one of Israel, I that speak in righteousness, all these beautiful phrases. So I'd have them do thatom, Bozrah, Tarshish. I'd have them write all the names down and we live in an amazing time. And I would have them go to bibleatlas.org and I would have them find out where those places are. Where are those places? Where are those places? Where is Javan and Tubal? Where is Lebanon? What are the fields of Sharon? Where all these places, why is Isaiah using them? And I think he's using them for a reason. They're all there for a

Starting point is 00:22:09 particular reason. So that's the second thing I'd have them do. So they're going to go through, find all the names of God. They're going to also go through and find all of the place names. And the third thing I have them do is I want to find weird phrases or words. They literally, they just don't know, right? Like just strange words. So for example, um, and I say a 58 through 66, you've got bull rush. That's a word that comes up a bull rush, the high places of the earth, cockatrices, eggs, gross darkness, abundance of the sea, the forces of the Gentiles, sons of strangers. Here's an interesting one. Exactors.

Starting point is 00:22:49 Exactors. Daughter of Zion. So I would just say, okay, go through and then you're going to look up what those words mean. We're going to find out what those words mean. So we found names of God, place names, strange words or phrases that we're going to define. And then my fourth and final thing I have them do is they've got to do a subject index for the chapter. So a lot of times when we read a narrative, we have a beginning, a middle, and an end.

Starting point is 00:23:19 Whereas Isaiah, of course, doesn't always do that. He, much like John the Revelator, kind of unconcerned with a linear chronology and is willing to kind of go back even within a couple of verses and then jump forward. And so I basically have create a subject index. And they're like, Brother Barron, this chapter talks about the millennium, the first coming of Christ, the second coming of Christ, and the restoration. I'm like, awesome. That's amazing. This chapter is talking about the temples. That's correct. Good.

Starting point is 00:23:54 So we create a subject index. And then I want to give them tools. So in 2 Nephi 25, verse 8, do we mind, can we read that together? Yeah, let's do it. Hank, would you be okay reading that for us? I am a good second Nephi reader. 25 verse 8. Wherefore they, these are the words of Isaiah, are of worth unto the children of men, and he that supposeth that they are not, unto them will I speak particularly. So you who don't think you who doesn't like Isaiah, I'm talking to you and can find the words into my own people for, I know that they shall be a great worth unto them in the last days for in that day, shall they understand them?

Starting point is 00:24:36 Yeah. So in that day, they shall understand them. So I want to suggest that we live in a particularly interesting time where, so for example, if you are in my class, you're a 22 year old and boom, you go through the names of Isaiah. Then we go place names and weird phrases. And now we do a subject index. And I say, you can understand this. Now you do have to pay a price, right? There's some work involved. It's not going to be had on the cheap, the nuggets, the treasures. And by the way, I would even say the peace and the power of the spirit that if you would take that time, you could tap into what president Nelson talks about, about hear him, that it is literally a conduit through which you could hear him. And what I want to say is we have the gift of the Holy ghost. Number one, we have prophets and apostles. Number two, we have latter day scripture, the book of Mormon,

Starting point is 00:25:36 doctrine, covenants, preliminary price, the old new testaments, all of these, the plan of salvation can frame. You've got footnotes, you've got the Joseph Smith translation, and then you might be surprised. I don't think you are, but we have technology today that 20 years ago you couldn't have got. For example, I know you guys know the scripture citation index that was put out by Stephen Little and Richard Galbraith, right? It's a free app. I think it's the greatest app since the fall. I honestly do. I think there's no greater app since the fall. You can, so for those of your, of your listeners who don't know scriptures.byu. I think it's.edu. It's, and you can download it on your phone. It's free. It's a work of love. So you can look at any

Starting point is 00:26:22 scripture, tap on any scripture and now know what from Joseph Smith to Russell M. Nelson, what they've said about it. What? Unbelievable. Yeah. Like what? Every six months it's updated again after general conference. And it also has one of the best search engines we have. Like, let's say you wanted to say say Holy One of Israel, you could hit search scriptures. You could just say, I want to see in the Old Testament. You can narrow it down. The Holy One of Israel. It'll tell you every single place that shows up.

Starting point is 00:26:53 So in addition, not only does it give you every single, whatever prophet and apostle has said about a particular verse, it has an amazing search engine. Number two, the blueletterbible.org. I have no financial interest in it. It is a free site. Anybody here can go to blueletterbible.org. Now, the beauty of blueletterbible.org is if I'm listening to this podcast and I'm thinking, yeah, but Ross went to Hebrew school as a kid and he has an advantage I don't have. And maybe in some ways that's true. But I want to say we're at a time before the second coming of Christ in the latter days where we have access to things people have not had access to. So you can click on a verse in blueletterbible.org and it'll literally go word by word what the English word is, what the Hebrew word is, and what all the latitude of definitions are on that Hebrew word.

Starting point is 00:27:44 You can have a PhD in Hebrew and that's incredible. Good for you. But if we're talking about somebody who's living anywhere in the world, who's listening to this and they really want to do the work on their own, they can look at a chapter, break it down this way and have this incredible experience with this technology. I talked about the Bible at list, there's online dictionaries. In other words, I'm saying 2 Nephi 25.8 is in process of being fulfilled in a particularly unique way for us right now. Yeah. The only thing needed is our work. Exactly. That's the missing ingredient. He's given us this frame and is basically saying, I've done literally there's everything

Starting point is 00:28:27 is out there for you. And you don't have to have somebody who's got a PhD in Near Eastern Studies or in Hebrew. God knew that, okay, so he translates the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God through the prophet Joseph Smith, and it's in English. And he knew that 99.9% of the members of the church wouldn't know Hebrew, but they're still going to benefit from it. And I think it's an amazing thing. So again, that was a long answer to kind of as the intro there. No, I love it. It's empowering to people. It doesn't have to go, well, it's Isaiah. I guess

Starting point is 00:29:00 I just won't get it. I can skip this part. Right. Say, no, there's tools available. Let's do this. When has it ever been easier? Was it President Kimball that said, I believe the Lord is anxious to put into our hands inventions of which the layman has hardly had a glimpse. And I think of what we're carrying in our hands, the citation index, the scriptures are all there. Come follow me, manuals. All of this is there. It's exciting what you said, Ross.

Starting point is 00:29:25 It's just like, if you want it, it's for most of us, it's right there in your hand. Well, yeah. And by the second week of the writings of Isaiah class, the class is electric. It's on fire because these students come back into class having done the assignments, pre-class assignments, and they want to share. This is what's going on. They've paid the price. They've had this experience. And I think in 3 Nephi 23, of course, when the Savior admonishes us, in fact, let's go there if you don't mind, 3 Nephi 23 verse 1. In 3 Nephi 23 verse 1, of course, the Savior is among the Nephites and he makes specific mention, of course, the Savior is among the Nephites, and he makes specific mention, of

Starting point is 00:30:08 course, of Isaiah, verse 1. John, do you want to read that for us? Yeah. And now, behold, I say unto you that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you, that ye search these things diligently, for great are the words of Isaiah. And my comment would be, he never asks us to read Isaiah. He tells us to search Isaiah.

Starting point is 00:30:30 And that's a fun discussion about what's the difference between read, study, search. And he doesn't just say search. He says search diligently. And great are the words of Isaiah. I mean, that's the Lord's stamp of approval on Isaiah. It's incredible. So he's inviting us to come to know him through Isaiah. Covenants, because if you say, well, where's Isaiah on the page? He's almost off the page. It's first person. God is speaking first person through Isaiah. It's thus saith the Lord. Isaiah is the mouthpiece. Just like if you read section one of the Doctrine and Covenants and said, well, where's Joseph Smith? He's not on the page. He's speaking through Joseph. He's speaking through

Starting point is 00:31:20 Isaiah. So I think Jesus is saying, I'm going to invite you to come to know me. I'm going to invite you to hear my voice. I'm going to invite you to search this diligently for the treasures, the nuggets that are there, but yeah, there's a price to be paid. And there's a quote from elder Neil L. Anderson back in 2014. He gave it a general authority evening with the general authority call and this is the quote this is from neil l anderson spiritually the classroom of faith becomes less like a lecture hall and more like a fitness center cool analogy students do not get stronger by watching someone else do the exercises they learn and then participate. As their spiritual strength increases, they gain confidence and apply themselves all the more.

Starting point is 00:32:10 That's again, February 28th, 2014, entitled A Classroom of Faith, Hope, and Charity by Neil L. Anderson at the Quorum of the Twelve. I read that and I'm inspired, absolutely inspired. So, okay. Again, this is a pretty long intro, but I think it's worth it. So do I. And it gets you excited. One big thing that John and I love is our listeners getting excited to say, I'm going to go give this a try. I would say, don't bite off more than you can chew. It's okay to do a little at a time. Sometimes you look at all 66 chapters and I don't even know where to start. Well, start somewhere where you're familiar with, maybe Isaiah 53 or Isaiah 54 or some of those Book of Mormon Isaiah chapters.

Starting point is 00:32:50 And you'll get it over time. I imagine you, Ross, and you, John, didn't get this the moment you started to put forth effort. It takes a while, but you'll get a little more every time. It does. Here's the subject index that I created from Isaiah 58 through 66. Now, again, I'm a gospel nerd. I love this stuff. Not like love. This is what we do for fun. It's a little bit weird. This is what I do for fun.

Starting point is 00:33:14 So proper fasting, blessings of fasting, Sabbath day, first coming of Christ, second coming of Christ, millennium, Christ character attributes and perfections, Zion, the redemption of Zion, the ultimate triumph of Israel, the apostasy, the restoration, everlasting covenants, gathering of Israel, watchman on the tower, our identity, Gentiles, justice, and temples. That's in Isaiah 58 through 66. Well, that's pretty cool. Yeah. If you have other, you want to jump in, but I thought we could maybe start in Isaiah 58. Yeah. Let's take out some pieces of this and kind of walk through it and show how it's done. And then hope that our listeners are going to not look at it and go, oh, I hope I get stronger by listening.

Starting point is 00:33:59 No, you get stronger by going in and trying some yourself. So just as a side note, in Isaiah 58, it is the single longest scriptural instruction and passage about fasting. So you got Matthew 4, the Savior fasts, right? Elijah fasts, Moses fasted. We know about fasting. There's some super interesting, great comments. But if somebody said, well, help me understand what I need to do to improve my fast or what warning signs should I be looking for to not fast a particular way?

Starting point is 00:34:31 Isaiah 58 is the answer. There's nowhere else in scripture that has this thing. I would also say from my experience with young people over the last 30 years, fasting is the most underutilized tool that we have to grow closer to God and to connect with him and to receive that peace that comes only from the spirit. Most underutilized tool. off. And I actually break it down into this question that Isaiah 58, the people seem to be addressing that he's going to kind of rhetorically use is we're fasting, but you're not taking notice. We're afflicting our souls, but you don't hear us. And then, so I would create three columns. Column number one would say improper fast or fasting behavior, proper fasting behavior, and then blessings from a proper fast.

Starting point is 00:35:29 And then these incredible verses. So verses three and four, wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? That's kind of the key question. Wherefore have we afflicted our soul and thou takest no knowledge? And then the answer, behold, in the day of your fast, you find pleasure. And then this interesting phrase and exact all your labors. Now the word for exact here is to drive people to work. And it comes from the word in a gosh in Hebrew, which is the same word used in Exodus. When Moses is concerned about the people who are being the taskmasters who are over them are exacting them. So the people are fasting, they're finding pleasure, they're

Starting point is 00:36:15 exacting all their labors. You fast verse four for strife and debate, to smite with the fist of wickedness. You shall not fast as you do this day to make your voice to be heard on high. There's a reason this fast is not working. Yeah, this is not going to work. And then he goes through these absolutely beautiful verses in five through seven, five. He also has some critical stuff. Is it such a fast that I have chosen a day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head as a bull rush and to spread a sackcloth and ashes under him? Wilt thou call this a fast and acceptable day to the Lord? Now, I would say that some people might say, well, aren't we supposed to kind of afflict ourselves in that way?

Starting point is 00:36:53 But I think this goes back to the Savior in Matthew chapter six. His criticism to them was that they were doing it for outward reasons, not really to connect with God. So I think that's what's going on in that particular verse. It's a time to be humble. Exactly. He says, if you want to fast, anoint your head, Matthew chapter six. Jesus teaches us our countenance should be upright, cheerful, not down. We're showing everybody how humble we are. But then he goes in verses six and seven in these

Starting point is 00:37:26 phenomenal verses. Here's the fast I've chosen, essentially. Verse six, to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, that you break every yoke, deal your bread to the hungry. I'm in verse seven, bring the poor that are cast out to thy house. When thou seest the naked, cover them, that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh. I mean, wow. So we're talking about repentance. We're talking about, I actually think we're talking to a certain degree about the mission of the church, to proclaim the gospel, to take care of the needy, to live the gospel, and to redeem, to unite families. I mean, isn't that what's going on here?

Starting point is 00:38:11 Interesting to me that he's connecting our fasting with taking care of the poor. As a kid, I always, mom always said, well, we fast and then we give what we would have spent in our fast offerings. Was there some sort of a system or understanding in place back then that you're going to fast and help the poor? I mean, I see footnote 7a says almsgiving. Yeah. It's not clear to me exactly the procedure by how that would have occurred, but I believe there was some form or some system. Clearly, for example, in Mark chapter 12, when the widow puts her might into the temple treasury, clearly they talked about taking care of the poor. It's not clear to me the mechanism

Starting point is 00:38:50 by which all that was carried out like it is today in the church. It's just interesting that the poor connected with fasting right here. I just thought, oh, wow, look at that in verse seven. Yeah. And by the way, this is 740 to 700 BC. We're talking, you know, seven centuries before the master, right? And they're talking about taking care of the poor and connecting that to fasting. I actually think it's brilliant. It's one of the most incredible things to be part of that and to see how a ward and ward fast offering can truly be central to fulfilling our role as disciples of Christ, which essentially is the Abrahamic

Starting point is 00:39:25 covenant. And that's what's going on here. We're connecting back the mission of the church, Abrahamic covenant. Isaiah is talking about fasting and taking care of the poor. Yeah. So if I pick this up there, the people are saying we are fasting and we're not seeing all these benefits from God. And God is saying, no, you're going hungry. You're not fasting the way you should be fasting. Here is the fast I'm after. And if you want the blessings, you got to do it. You got to do it my way. I love that.

Starting point is 00:39:51 And I think it's interesting if you look in the handbook of instructions that the church handbook, it says this quote, a fast day typically includes praying, going without food and drink for a 24-hour period, if physically able, and giving a generous fast offering, unquote, 38.8.15. And I like to tell my students and my family that there is a law that's decreed in heaven before the foundation of the world upon which all blessings are predicated. If I want the full blessing, I've got to be fully obedient. My students say, yeah, you know, I had my Cheerios this morning on the way to church, but then I didn't eat during church. And you know, that's my fast. And I'm like, you know, good for you. Good, good start. But if we want, if we want Isaiah 58 blessings, we've got to do Isaiah 58 obedience. look at the promises now like these promises are literally stand all amazed verse 8 your light is going to break forth as the morning your health is going to spring forth speedily your righteousness shall go before you the glory of the lord is going to be

Starting point is 00:40:58 here it says rearward the footnote rear guard we're going to get revelation because verse 9 you're going to call the lord's going to answer you because verse nine, you're going to call, the Lord's going to answer. You're going to cry. He's going to say, here I am, but you got to take away the yoke. You can't be pointing your finger at other people. Quit speaking vanity. If your soul is drawn out to the hungry, I'm in verse 10, you have the afflicted soul. Then shall thy light rise in obscurity. Thy darkness be as the noon day. The Lord's going to guide you continually. Verse 11, satisfy thy soul and drought, make fat thy bones. And I love this image. Thou shall be like a watered garden and like a spring of water whose waters fail not. Wow. I don't know what image you brethren get, but that is incredible. A watered garden. And then verse 12, they that shall be of thee shall build up the old waste places.

Starting point is 00:41:45 You're going to raise up the foundation of many generations. You're going to be called the repair of the breach, the restorer of past to dwell in. So we have how not to fast, how to fast, and the blessings from fasting all laid out in beautiful. I actually think relatively clear language about how I can change and be better to fast and to receive these blessings. But those blessings are phenomenal. Fantastic, Ross. I've been using this tool that I use. I go to BibleHub.com totally free.

Starting point is 00:42:17 Yeah, beautiful BibleHub. Great. And you can just click verse by verse and you can see, oh, that's what that means. Oh, that's what that means. Just a little bit of a different translation can help out quite a bit. I love Isaiah 58 verse 11. If you fast the way the Lord is asking you to fast, he'll satisfy your soul, not your body. He'll satisfy your soul. And that ties directly to me to Enos. My soul hungered, my body hungered a little bit, but my soul was hungry. I needed

Starting point is 00:42:46 my soul satisfied more than I needed my stomach. Well, you think about the depression and anxiety, and I'm not minimizing or trivializing anybody going through those kinds of things. But to me, like I said, to frame Isaiah 58, it's an underutilized tool. Verse 11, satisfy your soul in drought. If you talk to somebody who's involved feeling depressed or anxious, they feel like it's a drought, right? They literally feel like, I'm famished. I'm in a drought. Here's a tool.

Starting point is 00:43:18 Here's a way that we can tap in. And I can just testify that it's true, that it is an incredible way to connect. And like we talked about earlier, does it take some effort? Yeah. And are you going to get some hunger pangs? The answer is yes. Yeah, you are. You are. Guaranteed. And that's okay. That's okay. There's a talk linked to in the Come Follow Me manual. It's from Henry Iring, April 2015 General Conference called, Is Not This the Fast that I Have Chosen? It'd be a great thing to listen to this week as we're studying these sections.

Starting point is 00:43:57 He quotes all of Isaiah 58. And now we have here an extra tool. We talked about, Ross, all the tools we have here. We have a prophet, seer, and revelator. He says, so the Lord has given us a simple commandment with a marvelous promise. In the church today, we are offered the opportunity to fast once a month and give a generous fast offering through our bishop or branch president for the benefit of the poor and the needy. Some of what you give will be used to help those around you, perhaps someone in your own family. The Lord's servants will pray and fast for the revelation to know whom to help and what help to give. That which is not needed to help the people in your local church unit will become available to bless other church members across the world who are in need.

Starting point is 00:44:40 And then he quotes Spencer W. Kimball, who wrote, rich promises are made by the Lord to those who fast and assist the needy. Notice how those are connected again, John, fasting and blessing the needy. Inspiration and spiritual guidance will come with righteousness and closeness to our Heavenly Father. To omit, to do this righteous act of fasting would deprive us of these blessings. And it's a hard thing, especially maybe for a teenager or a young person listening. It's a difficult thing, but give it a try. Give it a try. Move forward. I know with my kids, sometimes they don't make it their full 24 hours or whatever they set out for, but I tell them the Lord loves effort. Keep going. The Lord loves when we're trying our best. And then to offer something to the poor as a teenager, to put a little money in

Starting point is 00:45:31 the envelope and hand that over and say, this offering is for the poor. There's something cleansing about that act to me that the Lord is offering here. It blesses the giver as much as it does the receiver. Hank, let's talk about that for a second. Let's say you're a mom and dad with small children. I'd love to hear what you do and what you both have done. How do you try to explain fasting to a young mind and a small stomach? Young mind and a small stomach. I love that. John, I think you and I did a follow him favorites on this before. And I remember sitting down and talking with my teenagers, at least, about what it feels like to be hungry and that being in the blessed situation we're in, we just don't have that

Starting point is 00:46:15 feeling very often. Just it's not something that you and I struggle with. But people all over this planet hunger, millions of people hunger. And for just a moment, we get to put ourselves in that position and know what that feels like. And when you know what it feels like, you long to help someone who feels in that position. So for me, one of those teaching moments is the Lord is giving us an opportunity to be like him, to feel the pains and sufferings of other people. And that like like him, automatically makes us want to

Starting point is 00:46:45 reach out to help. I've tried, and I think I like yours better, Hank. But just to say that part of the challenge of life is to kind of get our spirits to be in charge of our bodies instead of the other way around. Like Jesus says, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. And this is one of those times when we are seeing if our spirit can be in charge and disciplined of when we're going to satisfy our hunger. Practicing self-control, right? Gives us a chance to practice. And we'll see if our spirit can be strong here. I was curious how you explain that to kids because that can be hard.

Starting point is 00:47:20 I'm so proud of them when they try so hard. But boy, do they get hungry towards Sunday afternoon. And I think another thing that helps us is, and maybe we'll be talking about this, Ross, is when there's someone that you know in need in the ward or an extended family member that's having a trial or a health problem or something that we try to focus on them. When we start to focus on our own hunger, we say, no, I'm trying to ask the Lord to help this other person over here. Maybe you guys have some thoughts on that. Well, one of the things I would add would be having nine children

Starting point is 00:47:56 and going through this is they have to see you and your spouse doing it and doing it with joy. In fact, I like this in a classroom. I like in a classroom where kind of application questions organically come up because of how you've set the stage. And I think when me and my wife are fasting and joyful about it, and we get to talk about, John, what you just talked about, like sister so-and-so is sick and we're so grateful now that we can fast. And they're like, well, can we fast? Yeah. Wow. The way you talk about it. Yeah. Let's go without breakfast today. Let's try that. It's going to be a little hard. I think number one, you have to model not only in that you do it, but like, do you remember that talk? I'm trying to remember Elder Holland talked about, it can't just be the obligatory kind of drudgery. I'm going without two meals. I think you have to be able to say, man, we're going to read Isaiah 58. I need to talk to you guys about some of

Starting point is 00:48:56 these blessings. And I'm so excited to fast. And they're like, what? You're a weirdo. No, this is great. And you guys remember this talk? This is an old one, 1928, Melvin J. Ballard. And he gave this talk, I think at the assembly hall. Only John was alive for that one. John, do you? Well, no, Brigham Young signed my mission call. So I think I'm older than John. Okay, both of you. I wasn't there for this one. I would think I was outside, but Melvin J. Ballard talked about you and it. And he said, you is your spirit and it is your body. And when you fast, you gets to tell it what's going on. And that's one of the things I explain. I go, what a great opportunity.

Starting point is 00:49:43 So when you get that hunger pain, that's awesome. They're like, what? I said, no, you then tell it what's up. And I go, by the way, every single time you plan on fasting, something will come up. You're going to get a headache or there's going to be a wedding reception that night. There's going to be that great cake. There's going to always be something that comes up, but this is where you, your real person, your spirit tells it what's happening. And I love that idea. I love that concept. And that, again, I got that idea from Melvin J. Ballard, but I love that. 1928. I think it's 1928. Yeah. There's something about fasting, spiritual, it's physical, it's social.

Starting point is 00:50:27 We go to a fast and testimony meeting. I mean, ideally, if everyone came to that meeting fasting, like John said, we're fasting for the Smith family or we're fasting for so-and-so, man, there's just something that ties you, that binds you in this covenant relationship with God and with others that creates these promises that come to pass. And so it's true. I mean, what Isaiah is telling us is true about this fasting. Beautiful. So that's my fasting piece of Isaiah 58. And I challenge my students to kind of go out and practice and then to follow up. And it's incredible, the witnesses, the testimonies.

Starting point is 00:51:03 And for a lot of these people, and I know you guys teach the same age I do, 18 to say 30 year olds. For some of them, it's the first time they've ever fasted, really fasted. It's for some of them, if you'll invite them and kind of talk about this and they do it, they're always amazed at the connection they felt. And there's this kind of feeling of accomplishment. I went 24 hours without food or drink. That's cool. And I connected with God in a different way. And I had some hunger pains. It wasn't easy. It's okay. That's good. Good for you. It's okay. You're going to eat again. I promise.

Starting point is 00:51:40 We eat every meal like it's our last. That's our motto. Right. So. We eat every meal like it's our last. That's our motto. You know that verse 10 there? There it is again, connecting it to the poor. If thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, I'm fasting. I'm the hungry one. No, this is talking about something about fasting helps the hungry and satisfy the afflicted soul. And man, I can't stop reading this one. Then shall thy light rise in obscurity and thy darkness be as the noonday. A little parallelism there, but I love how Jesus not only said, I am the light of the world, but he said, ye are the light of the world.

Starting point is 00:52:19 And our light can arise. Like you said, Ross, about countenance doth witness for them or against them. It's interesting. Your light, you become lighter somehow. That's right. I think it's an interesting thing. You remember in Alma 32.3 when the people are criticized and they say, you're going to be like dross. Remember that?

Starting point is 00:52:42 Alma 32.3, you're going to be like dross. And then in kind of, John john this is exactly to your point he then says in alma 34 so amulet is talking he says and now behold i'm in verse 28 my beloved brethren i say unto you do not suppose that this is all for after you have done all these things if you turn away the needy and the naked and visit, not the sick and afflicted and in part of your substance, if you have to those who stand in need, I say unto you, if you do not any of these things now notice what he connects it to.

Starting point is 00:53:13 Behold, your prayer is vain and availeth you nothing. And you are as hypocrites who deny the faith. So your connection with God is directly related to how we take care of the needy. And then the next verse, verse 29, therefore, if you do not remember to be charitable, you are as dross. So I love how the bookend, you're dross because you guys are poor. And then Amulek turns it on its head and says, no, actually, let me give you really what dross is. You don't take care of the poor and the needy, you're dross.

Starting point is 00:53:43 I think that's the only two times the word dross appears in the Book of Mormon. It's like, we're dross, look at the coarseness of our apparel, or they were esteemed as dross. I think you're not dross because you're poor, you're dross when you neglect the poor, right? Exactly right. And it is the only two times, Alma 32, verse 3, and Alma 34, 29. It's the only time the word dross is used. That's the Ramy Empton group. So again, a little story if it's okay. I got my degree in finance at BYU. My first job was in Houston, Texas. Worked in a big office building. And I got an assignment to go see an executive at Phillips Petroleum. It was a big oil company back in the day. And I was super nervous. I mean, I was,

Starting point is 00:54:23 again, fresh out of BYU, probably three weeks, you know, in my job, you had to have a key to get on this particular floor. It was super high security. And this guy had this huge office overlooking Houston, gorgeous view. And I walked in there and he could kind of tell I was trembling like Sebastian before King Dryden. And thanks for laughing at that, John. Anyway, the guy says to me, he's a senior, he says, where'd you go to school? And I said, BYU. And he goes, do you know Dallin Oaks? I said, well, I know who Elder Oaks is, but I personally don't know. He goes, Dallin Oaks is the greatest man I've ever met. I said,

Starting point is 00:55:13 what was your interaction with Elder Oaks? So he proceeds to tell me he was on some horseback ride. I don't remember all the details. So I leave his meeting and the guy, we didn't even talk about much except Dallin H. Oaks. We leave the meeting. I go back to my office. I think, you know, I should tell Elder Oaks that. So I called the church office building with a dial-up phone and I get a hold of the secretary and I said who I was and could I talk to Elder Oaks? She's like, Elder Oaks is in a meeting. And I said, well, let me tell you what just happened. So I explained to the secretary. She go, oh, Elder Oaks will want to know about that. Let me get your information. So I don't hear anything. But two days later, I get a package from the office of the quorum of the 12th. And in it is a book of Mormon. And on the inside, he wrote a little note from Elder Oaks, dear brother, Baron, please deliver this book on my behalf to this man. And on the inside cover was Elder Oaks' testimony, which I promptly made a copy of and is in my file right now. Elder Oaks probably reflected light because he was a disciple of Jesus Christ. He reflected that light. That man knew it. And he felt that power. And I was able to give him a copy of the Book of Mormon and have that experience. So again, going back to this

Starting point is 00:56:37 idea of countenance and light that we get from connecting with the Lord. Powerful. That is beautiful. For anyone still on the fence about fasting, because I know this is one of the more difficult ones, especially for young people. You remember 2 Nephi 26, verse 24, the Lord doeth not anything, save it be for the benefit of the world, for he loveth the world. So, remember, he loves you. He would not ask you to do this if it wasn't for your benefit. So trust him, trust the words we've been looking at here in Isaiah 58. And maybe for the first time, like Ross said, maybe for the first time, offer up a fast to the Lord. Try him out. What did the Savior say? If any man will do his will, he'll know. He was pretty confident in his doctrine.

Starting point is 00:57:23 Amen. If you don't mind, if we could just look at these two verses on the Sabbath. I know that, Hank, I know you've been to the Holy Land many times, and I know, John, you've been, right? Yes. And who is the brother, Kristen Stendahl, who talked about holy envy, meaning we look at another religious group or maybe even another organization and we have appropriate envy towards some particular practice they have. And I'd love to take anybody to the Western wall at Jerusalem on a Friday afternoon slash evening to have them watch- Bring in the Sabbath. As they bring in the Sabbath. And literally, and I think Latter-day Saints and others who are listening, non-Latter-day Saints, might not fully understand, they truly call the Sabbath a delight.

Starting point is 00:58:14 In other words, their attitude, their heart, their focus, their singleness is this is the greatest day of the week without question. And they come in their best outfits and they come dancing and singing and there's a light in their eyes because it's the Sabbath. This is the Sabbath. And I think sometimes Latter-day Saints are like, ooh, tomorrow's the Sabbath. We got to get to Walmart to get our five gallons of ice cream. And to watch, to have that holy envy. Now, I realize also that there are some downsides to some of the way the Sabbath is kept and some of the strictness. But I think the attitude, that's what I want to focus on. Because Isaiah here is talking about, in verse 13, call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable,

Starting point is 00:59:09 honor him. So this, again, I think God is giving us tools, tools to overcome the world, tools, you know, to overcome the, the kind of the influence, this, this flood, the tsunami of information overload, of social network and comparison. Connect with me. Get vertical. You got to go vertical. And the way we get vertical, we're fasting and we're calling the Sabbath a delight. We're going to honor him. And then he gives promises. The promises in verse 14 that President Nelson, as the president of the Quorum of the Twelve, talked about. Number one, you're going to delight yourself in the Lord. Number two, you're going to ride upon the high places of the earth. And number three, you will be fed with the heritage of Jacob.

Starting point is 00:59:57 Oh, my word. So from the Sabbath day, so I honor the Sabbath. God honors me. I delight myself in him. The high places of the earth for me So I honor the Sabbath. God honors me. I delight myself in him. The high places of the earth for me, that's the temple. That's the temple. We're going to ride upon the high places of the earth. And what's the heritage of Jacob?

Starting point is 01:00:16 Well, those are the promises of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These are all the promise. That's the heritage of Jacob. I get priesthood. I get the gospel. I get celestial marriage. I get the redemption, the promise. That's the heritage of Jacob. I get priesthood. I get the gospel. I get celestial marriage. I get the redemption, the ministry, the privilege now of serving. This is what I want in my life.

Starting point is 01:00:33 It's what I want for my family. And again, we have these two small and simple things. Alma 37, 6 and 7, DNC 64, 33. Out of small things preceded that, which is great. We're going to fast. We're going to call the Sabbath, the delight. Wow. The multitude of promises. It's just overwhelming. It's so fascinating to me that to the natural man, these are probably two of the most difficult things to do. That's right. That's right. Great insight. Yep. Take away a full day that I could be using to do my things or to take away food that I could be eating.

Starting point is 01:01:09 This is where you tame the natural man is in these two commandments and others, of course. But in these two commandments, you can really, like you said, John, have your spirit be in control of your body. Love that. And I love the idea of it 100% in this time, maybe not so much 60, 75 years ago, but it separates us from the world and it separates us and it's good, right? We want to be in, but not of, and somebody might ask you, well, how do I, how am I in, but not of? And one of my responses is fasting and Sabbath day observance. That's how you're in and not of. That's one way. That's correct.

Starting point is 01:01:51 That's true. It makes you different. And then, and I love this idea. And I love how President Nelson said, I got rid of the lists. Remember this, of all the do's and don'ts. Because it's a sign. It's a sign between me and God of how I'm going to keep that covenant. And he goes, that guided then all my decisions. What sign do I

Starting point is 01:02:11 want to show God that this day is different? I love that. That becomes principle-based. And then the Hank Smith family, the John Bytheway family, the Ross Barron family, we're going to have to organize ourselves and determine how that's going to work for us. And I'm not going to judge you. I'm just going to have to say, am I calling the Sabbath the delight and how am I doing this? And I want those blessings. I want to ride upon the high places of the earth. I want the heritage of Jacob and I want to delight myself in the Lord. Do I trust? Do I believe? I want those things. Exactly. Beautiful. I have something that Brother Truman G. Madsen wrote in his book called The Radiant Life.

Starting point is 01:02:49 This is on page 72. First, as I've indicated, they see the Sabbath as a sanctuary in time. Now, it's true they have strict requirements. And even now in Israel, there are hospitals which are so prepared, organized, and planned that they keep the Sabbath. If you care enough, it can be done. But all that discipline, all that thou shalt not, is seen as an instrument to joy. A discipline, joy indeed, but nevertheless, joy and celebration. Mind, says one of the great rabbis, is established by joy.

Starting point is 01:03:19 By melancholy, it is driven into exile. It is a sin, according to Judaism, to be sad on the Sabbath. If that's startling language, I'll startle you further. Wow. Wow. That's beautiful. So when it says in verse 13, call the Sabbath a delight, that's what reminded me of that idea of we're going to be held accountable for the joy we don't feel on the Sabbath. And maybe like fasting, it's a change of our mindset toward it. I think that's the key.

Starting point is 01:04:02 Please join us for part two of this podcast.

followHIM - Isaiah 58-66 Part 1 • Dr. Ross D. Baron • Oct. 3 - 9

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