followHIM - John 7-10 Part 1 • Dr. Jenet Erickson • Apr. 24 - Apr. 30

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

How do we receive hard sayings? Dr. Jenet Erickson explores the doctrine that Jesus teaches at the Feast of Tabernacles and shows mercy to the woman taken in adultery.00:00 Part 1–Dr. Jenet Erickson00:56 Introduction of Dr. Jenet Erickson04:46 Framing these chapters07:35 Who God is09:39 Jesus and the Feast of Tabernacles14:46 The importance of remembering what God has done18:05 People question Jesus’s authority20:15 Revelation comes when people are acting23:01 Jesus shares his Father’s message25:48 Healing on the Sabbath27:40 Judge not31:09 Our relationship with God is essential33:01 Jesus foreshadows his death 37:09 Feast of Tabernacles and water41:20 Why covenants?42:24 The people won’t arrest Jesus44:24 Jesus and the woman taken in adultery47:40 Jesus reveals hypocrisy50:08 Judgment and law52:20 Jesus doesn’t correct or condemn her publicly56:55 Jesus is the light1:02:20 Jesus gains additional followers and is the Truth and the Way1:06:37 Jesus as liberator of all1:13:14 Jesus speaks boldly and the people look to stone him1:18:10 End of Part 1–Dr. Jenet EricksonPlease rate and review the podcast.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith. And I'm John, by the way. We love to learn. We love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith and I am your host. And I am here with my Good Shepherd co-host, John, by the way. John, I was just reading today's lesson and I thought, Good Shepherd, Jesus and John. You're a good shepherd. It's supposed to be a compliment. It is. Is it working?

Yeah. Thank you. You're a good shepherd. I've seen you watch over a lot of flocks in your life. John, we are going to spend our day in the gospel of John here, and we needed an expert to help us out. Who is with us? I'm so excited that Janet Erickson is back with us again. We had such a wonderful time with her before. Janet grew up in Orem, Utah. As the fifth of 11 children, she received a bachelor's degree in nursing, a master's degree in linguistics from Brigham Young University, after which she earned a PhD in family social science from the University of Minnesota. That's go Gophers, right? That's right. That's right. Her research is focused

on maternal and child well-being in the context of work and family life, along with contributions that mothers and fathers make in their children's development. Janet's research has been featured in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, U.S. News and World Report, Slate Magazine, and the Today Show. She's also completed research analyses on non-maternal care for policymakers as a social science research fellow for the Heritage Foundation. She's right now an associate professor in the Department of Church History and Doctrine at BYU, as well as a research fellow of the Wheatley Institution and the Institute for Family Studies. She's a regular

columnist for the Deseret News, where she writes about family issues. She sits on the board of trustees for the American Heritage School. She enjoys spending time with her husband, Michael, her son, Peter, and her daughter, LaDawn. But what I want to say is, I think, Hank, it was after we recorded with Janet, she did a talk for Brigham Young University. You can find us at speeches.byu.edu, and it was called Designed for Covenant Relationships, and it was fabulous. So go to speeches.byu.edu and find Janet's talk and watch that,

and you'll know more than I just shared in this bio about her spirit and her passion and her testimony. So it was just awesome. So thank you for being with us. Oh, thank you. Such a privilege. I'm so grateful for the work that you are doing and grateful to be on this podcast. I'm humbled to be here and to talk about these sections. We love having you. Oh, such a privilege. These chapters, it's interesting, are very meaningful in my little family because my husband grew up without faith. He had very devoted parents to him, but did not grow up with any faith. And when he was struggling to find any kind of truth as a

student at the University of Texas at Austin, he went through a whole course of different quests to find truth. And at one time, Gideon organization was handing out their little green Bibles, little green New Testament Psalms and Proverbs. And he just looked at them and he said, I've tried everything else. Maybe I'll try Christianity. But his experience with Christianity had been like evangelists on TV and it had not been, it had not been appealing to him. And when he read the gospels, he could not believe this being and his remarkable wisdom and insight. And in particular, John seven through 10 were just very powerful instructions for him. He just marveled at

this being. He didn't know that he was the son of God yet, but that's what paved the way for his decision to be baptized into some faith. And then as you would know, missionaries would knock on his door soon after that and introduce him to the gospel of Jesus Christ. So these are wonderful chapters for our family. They were important in his conversion to Christ. Beautiful. Well, I'm glad that you are here to join us for these chapters. It's about the best intro ever. So where do you want to start with this, Janet? The Come Follow Me manual just has us in the gospel of John today for four chapters, but they're a big four chapters. Wow.

They're a big four chapters. Maybe we can start, Hank, by just doing a little framing. And I am drawing on other people's incredible scholarship today a lot. Richard Holzhoffel and Kerry Muehlstein and others who have done work on these chapters. And I'm so grateful. I really love how Eric Huntsman, when he was talking about John 1 here on the podcast, but in all of his scholarship work, he distinguishes this Christology, he calls it, that John is trying desperately to help us understand that Jesus is the Christ, his divinity, the divine word made flesh. And then the other part of it is how we respond to that reality,

how we as human beings respond to that truth and becoming disciples. So here you've got, it starts with this logos. Jesus is the word. And of course, logos meaning that is where one person communicates with another. Jesus is the way whereby God interacts with the world, with us, and communicates with us. And so in these sections, we're going to see him revealed as the living God, as the Christ, over and over again in very powerful ways. And at the same time, we're going to see how people are responding to that. And we can find ourselves in our own conversion, probably in many of the different voices represented there in John 7 through 10. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of different people who say a lot of different things about

Jesus. A lot of different things. Yes. So the other little piece of that, I think, is I appreciate that the word miracle, we're going to see miracles. John only includes seven miracles in his book. They go from changing water into wine, healing the nobleman's son, healing the lame man at the pool of Bethesda, feeding the 5,000, walking on water, healing the man born blind. We will do that one today. And then finally end with raising Lazarus from the dead. And he selects those miracles because there are deeper meanings reflected in the signs. So the word miracles in John actually is better translated, Eric Huntsman says, as signs, not as like a miraculous event, but as a witness, as an evidence of who this being is. So I think in them, we find deeper symbols of the divine God becoming the man Jesus, starting with water turned into

wine, which of course beautifully symbolizes this living God, the divine being made flesh in blood, the mortality of wine. And we're going to see that powerful dialectic all the way through these chapters as well. Fantastic. We'll start in John chapter seven. And I think I'd like to do it where we see who God is, who Christ is across these chapters. and then we'll come back to talk through how did people respond? How do we respond? John, I just have come to appreciate so much this remarkable literary capacity.

I think some wonder if his second language was Greek. It's not as sophisticated structurally. I think the Greek of the book of John, it's plain and in some ways simple. And yet as we're reading it today, you just marvel at his use of metaphor. And maybe it's just Jesus Christ, right? His use of metaphor and symbol and powerful kind of drama even as he structures this and each section leading into each other section in a way that elucidates who this Christ is. So just grateful for this precious book. The other day I was teaching the gospel of Luke and I just said to my class,

Luke is hitting home run after home run after home run. And then one of the students raised her hand and said, isn't it Jesus? I was like, well, yes, yes, it's Jesus who gave them all this great content. They didn't come up with the content. I think that is so true. So as we start, he is going in these sections. We hear throughout the book of John this beautiful name, I am. And we will have heard from John chapter six, I am the living bread, which came down from heaven. We'll hear in these chapters, I am the light of the world. We will hear, I am that I am. That beautiful Old Testament title for God. I am the door. I am the good shepherd.

In later chapters, we'll hear him say, I am the resurrection and the life. I am the vine. I am the way, the truth, and the life. So John is just, it's so beautiful to have these teachings from the Lord himself about who he is and who he yearns to be in our lives. Okay, so here's chapter seven. We'll come back to kind of their responses to him. He tells his disciples, and it sounds like it's his brethren, maybe family members, who say, this is your chance.

Go up to the Feast of Tabernacles. It's an important feast. We'll talk about what that means and show people who you are. If you're really who you claim to be, go show it openly. Quit being in secret. No great person who's going to do what you've got to do is going to do this in secret. And he, of course, recognizes they do not know who I am. And this will be a theme throughout these sections. They don't know who I am. So he goes up, he tells them he's not going yet. And he comes later to the Feast of Tabernacles. This is a really important feast in Jewish tradition and scripture. I was in study abroad. We celebrated Sukkot. I remember going into a home, a Jewish home where they had built a little tent off their

house and they ate in the house in that little tent. They did everything over that seven day period in that tent. So this has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years. But essentially the Feast of Tabernacles is a commemoration of the 40 years spent in the wilderness living in tents and specifically awaiting for Moses to descend from Mount Sinai with the law. So they're waiting there. And what's beautiful is we know that Joseph, when he received the plates from Moroni, it

was right around this period of time of Feast of Tabernacles, this receiving of the truths of God. So the Savior goes here to the temple. He's going to talk about Moses, and he's going to talk about the law, and he's going to talk about what it means to judge. And he's right in that context where here the people are celebrating or remembering, commemorating this receiving of the law and this period of time in booths, in tents there in the wilderness for 40 years. Now, I love that when John says, the word was made flesh and dwelt among us, the translation, according to Richard Holzhoffel, could be he pitched his tent with us. So it's interesting

to think of the tabernacle symbolizing the presence of God with them. And of course, all the symbols of the tabernacle were symbolic of Christ's presence with them. But here he has come in mortality and pitched his tent, so to speak, with us, living among us in a tabernacle of flesh. There's just beautiful, powerful symbols in this Feast of the Tabernacles that he is going to. Yeah, the Feast of Tabernacles. I've read a little bit about it. Apparently the most joyful of all, celebrating the harvest, celebrating water, celebrating light. It's just after Yom Kippur where everyone's been forgiven of their

sins. So it's got to be a good week to enjoy your family and friends and have everybody around and everybody's forgiven of their sins. That's a good day. When I was a kid, the tabernacle was where the tabernacle choir sang. Okay. Yeah. And there's a baptistry there and that's where i was baptized within the tabernacle in the basement there john yeah so when i first heard feast of tabernacles as a kid i didn't know what that meant so i'm glad jenna you're explaining that they made booths they made little things to dwell in while they were waiting for moses and i think for John in verse two there to just say, now the

Jews feast of tabernacles was at hand. And then just to go on, it's kind of like if one of us wrote a book and had people reading it a couple of thousand years later and said, it was the Christmas season, but we didn't explain what that means. There is food, there is music, there are all sorts of traditions. There's, like you said, Hank, joy. There was an old saying that if you had not seen the joy of the pouring out of water ceremony, you did not know joy in your life. You did not know joy, yeah. And John kind of writes like we all know what that is. I think it's important to talk about what is this feast and what are they remembering so that we get the backdrop? Because some of the things Jesus is going to say are, oh, you know, because this is the middle of the feast.

Yeah. So it wasn't the tabernacle choir feast. It wasn't the feast of tabernacles like downtown Salt Lake City. They were little booths that they dwelt in after their leaving Egyptian bondage. Wow. I think if my kids wanted to live in a tent outside for a week, I'd be like, yeah, I'm going to do it. And then the moment they were asleep, I'd be like, okay, I'm speaking back in my bed. Sounds fun though. I bet kids enjoyed it. I bet children enjoyed the Feast of Tabernacles. I bet children enjoyed the feast of tabernacles.

I just love that the Lord wanted them to remember this. Just remember that I delivered you from bondage and remember those events. And I feel like as we studied old Testament last year, boy, the one thing that just kept going back to was the Exodus. That was something that was a theme that came up so often about God as a deliverer and Moses as a type of Christ and a deliverer, and he's going to deliver us. Yeah, so powerful. So helpful to have all those wonderful insights. Hank, you used those

words, light, water. Apparently they would go and they'd go down to the pool of Siloam and they'd gather water, the priest would, and bring it back and people would go with him and follow. And then there was this most, as John, you referenced, joyful pouring out of the water into a bowl on the altar. And then lights, they had these huge, it sounds like huge light candelabras that would be lit up, basins that would hold the wax and the wick, and beautiful light radiating all over the city from that top point where the temple was. You could see it from miles away.

Yeah, it lit up the whole city, they said. Just really special. So, of course, here he is, and he's going to come into this place and give powerful teachings. So, the very first thing I think that we're exposed to in these chapters in terms of his teachings is he is going to talk about his father and his closeness with his father. And they didn't understand it. This God of the Old Testament, Jehovah, there just had been lost that understanding of the Son of God.

So they're just confused, but he's going to over and over again say, as he says in 16 and 17, my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. And he's going to reference his oneness with the Father over and over again. It's pretty remarkable. I think Carrie Muehlstein was just mentioning that we are careful as Latter-day Saints to just not fold the Godhead into one being. We are sensitive about that. And maybe sometimes we overstate how distinct they are, that this remarkable work of salvation involves these three and the son submitting perfectly to the will of the father and that this being of perfect obedience in that process would have

complete power. It teaches us a lot about where power comes from, that it comes in submission to the divine will. He wants us to know over and over and over again, I do nothing save what my father has told me to do. And that's what gives him power over everything. It's what enables him to be the great redeemer is his submission to the Lord. So he's saying, everything I am teaching, I got from the Father. My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. And of course, they're angry at him. They're accusing over and over again. And he keeps saying, you forget, this is your Father and my Father. These are the truths of our divinity.

And they're complaining in verse 15. How knoweth this man letters or scriptures, having never learned? You've never gone to school. Where's your degree from? Who is your rabbi? Who did you study under? We know who we studied under.

Where did you come from? I think that's very interesting, Hank, that they want to know what's your credentials here. And we saw it way back, right? Earlier in sections of the New Testament, they're just like, who are you? And he's saying, I was taught by God himself, my father. Back when you used to have to memorize scripture in seminary,

17 was a big one. I can still quote it and even do the song my seminary teacher taught me. I won't do it for you guys, but he says, if any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God or whether I speak of myself. Try me out. Try the doctrine. Give it a try. See if it works for you. That's a perfect way to test tithing is to pay your tithing and see how it works or to fast or to do anything like that. It's so interesting, isn't it? That when we do something, it actually changes us in a way when we choose to do.

And then we can see differently than we could see before choosing to do. Just so many times in my life, I've thought prophets of God teaching something. I remember being single, John, you and I were single a long time and they giving the instruction to go to Institute, just keep going to Institute. And I kept getting diploma after diploma. And yet I knew a prophet of God had asked me to do that. I had been in that fireside where elder, at the time elder Eyring told us all to do that. And I look back on that incredible gift in my life. And it's one of so many times where just following that little invitation and all of a sudden you just marvel at how you can see why. You can see the gifts that it brought into your life. But it takes doing it.

It's interesting. It takes doing it to see. Almost like in the process of doing it, our sight is changed and we're open to the miracles of God, seeing them in our lives. John, I remember you writing a book about testimonies. Didn't this verse come up? Yes, because my son, Andrew said to me one day, he's like 15, dad, how do I know if I felt the spirit? And I, I kind of panicked and closed the door and wrote a book. And it was such a good question. And I called it, How Do I Know If I Know?

I started just reading general conference talks on testimony. And I don't know if I hit every one of them, but I'm pretty confident that every one that I found, at least, referenced John 7, 17. A lot of us think, I need to feel in order to know. It's a feeling. But here's Jesus is saying, and this is an application of this verse, you have to do his will in order to know. And I remember something that Elder Oaks said, this was at a mission president seminar in June of 2001,

and it got republished in the Ensign. But he said, in my study of the scriptures, I have noted most revelation to the children of God comes when they are on the move, not when they are sitting back in their habitations waiting for the Lord to tell them the first step to take. That's a very first Nephi 4.6 thing. I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand. But Nephi didn't wait and say, okay, tell me exactly how I'm going to get the plates of brass. He just moved. And Brigham Young said a similar thing, that more testimonies are found when people are on their feet

than when they're on their knees, which is a great statement. So there's different ways to know the truth. And a testimony of experience is doing His will and then knowing of the doctrine. And the idea of, well, just send me a testimony right now. I think sometimes we, you know, send me a feeling, a whisper to me or something. And the Lord says, I'm going to answer your prayer, but it won't be in words or feelings. It will be in an experience. It'll take a couple of years. And we don't want that kind of answer, but a testimony of experience in a lot of ways, I think is stronger. And Hank, you mentioned tithing. I need to give a shout out to my dad who passed away 19 years ago yesterday at the time of this recording anyway and as an investigator

he was told these promises about the law of tithing from malachi was like wow that's what a return on investment that is and so he tried it before he was a member of the church he started paying tithing to see if it would work and he wrote this to me in a letter when I was on my mission in the Philippines. And it was such a testimony of this idea, do his will and then you will know. I love that verse a lot. Thanks for bringing that up, Hank. Yeah, absolutely. God can't steer a parked car, right? Let's get moving. Where do you want to go next, Janet? Let's keep moving through this. It's interesting to think of the next part where he says in verse 18, he that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory, but he that seeketh his glory that sent him the same is true and no unrighteousness is in him. And you just think about his witness. I can hear president Nelson telling us, I can't change what God's law is. I am a messenger to communicate what that is

and that we find the truth as we live it, right? In the faith of following what has come from a being whose heart is absolutely pure. There's nothing in it for him. This is purely for us that we can know the truth. What a great connection, Janet. We've heard President Nelson say that. Prophets are rarely popular, but it's not our job to change the doctrine. I love that. We teach what we've been given. He will reference this again later in these sections, so we'll come back to this theme. But this is not about seeking his own glory. This is out of a pure love to help them know the truth. So then he says, did not Moses give you the law? And it's so interesting that here he is. He's the one that gave Moses the law. And he's standing there as they're

commemorating this time, Moses bringing the law and they are rejecting him. They're seeking to kill him. And of course, he's telling them over again, I am of the father. He that sent me is true. And in a sense, as he sent Moses, as this living Christ sent Moses with the law, the father has sent Christ to be the fulfillment of that law. And he's trying to help them understand, and it's difficult for them. We'll come back to their response to that. I love that connection. Did not Moses give you the law? Yet none of you keepeth the law. Here

you are celebrating the day that the law was given, and you're not keeping it. You're actually trying to break it. You want to kill me. That's one of the big 10 of the law, right? I always marvel at that. in so many New Testament stories. They're so upset that a man who had been waiting by the pool of Bethesda after 38 years is healed. On the Sabbath. But they're so upset about the Sabbath. They're not going, I am so happy for that man. How long have you been there? And so I don't want to go break this part of the law of Moses, but let's plot to kill Jesus. It's kind of amazing.

Amazing. And not only thou shalt not kill, but here he is the one who gave it to Moses. It's so remarkable, but it does help you shed light on just the ironies in our own lives, how we might not see. Strain in a gnat and swallow a camel, right? Yes. So John, to your comment there, here's 23, and he's going to reference that healing on the Sabbath that just had happened in the previous chapters. And he's just saying, you're angry at me, right, for healing a man on the Sabbath.

And I love this part because, so he says, if a man on the Sabbath. And I love this part because, so he says, if a man on the Sabbath day received circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken. Yet you're angry at me because I have made a man every whit whole on the Sabbath day. We can sense here a reference to creation. Here is the great creator who came and dwelt among his creations. And in John's words, in John 1, he came unto his own, but his own received him not. He came unto his creations, but they received him not. And he is talking about the fulfillment of all of it is this Sabbath day, the day of rest when things are completed. And he has offered healing on the Sabbath day, symbolic of that wholeness, that completion. So here is the great creator speaking

to his creations and of what he will make whole in all of us as we are going through the process of creation ourselves individually to be made whole in him and the celebration of the Sabbath, that wholeness in him. I've always laughed at verse 23. If you're willing to circumcise someone on the Sabbath, which is pretty painful, I'm healing people on the Sabbath. And you're upset with me over that? I'm healing and helping people? How do you reconcile that? Yeah. What a paradox. So interesting. I love that. Pain and healing. And he's saying, you're angry at me for healing. Yeah. You're angry at me for healing. You do people pain on Sabbath, but I'm healing people on the Sabbath and you're upset.

We see in verse 24, this judge not, and this is going to be a theme all throughout these chapters, judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. And I think it's powerful to think of that meaning of judgment, at least in translation from the Savior's words, he makes right. So to judge righteously is to turn that which was skewed and make it right, make it straight, bring balance to those who had less to give them and to bring that equality and rightness to things. Obviously, they're all judging. We judge with such skewed vision through a glass darkly. And he's inviting us into his way, which is to judge righteously, to make things right, to respond with goodness. Then he cried in the temple, ye both know me. This is 28.

And you know whence I am. And again, I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true. But I know him. He says, you don't know him, but I know him for I am from him and he has sent me. We think about his apostles who I think they're on this spectrum of trying to understand who he is at this time. They've already borne witness that he is the son of God. What does that mean? They've moved from like a great teacher to a prophet, to a great prophet, like even like unto Elijah and Moses. And now Peter's already born

witness, thou art the son of God. But what does that mean? Here's Peter's testimony that I love so much later after he's teaching after the Savior's crucifixion. He says, for Christ also has suffered for sins, the just for the unjust that he might bring us to God. And it's like, he understands the whole work of Christ is to bring us to our heavenly home, to bring us into knowing God, the eternal father, to knowing our heavenly parents in intimacy by having become as they are. So he just keeps saying,

he has sent me to bring you to him. I know him. I know him. You don't know him. Whom ye know not, but I know him. Yes. I know him. We can trust him when he says, I know who the father is, that when we see Christ, we know who our father is, what he's like, what our heavenly parents are like.

It always amazes me that there were people there that knew their scriptures, but he was right there and they didn't know him. They didn't know who it was. It reminds me of just something I learned this year studying the Christmas story was the wise men go and Herod is like, where will the Messiah be born? And they know their scriptures. Oh, yeah, that's in Micah. But he was right there in their midst and they didn't even know it. We need to know that it's not just about book learning or knowing your scriptures. There's got to be some revelation there, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And in verse 31, I love that many of the people said, when Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these, which this man hath done?

I put in my margin, more than a moral teacher. He's not just a bunch of wise sayings, but is he going to do more miracles than this? Because he's done some pretty impressive miracles. He's done some pretty impressive stuff. I mean, were you looking for more? He's done more than Elijah. And what do we do now? How else can we understand this being who's done so much?

I was just reading some interviews of people who struggled leaving the church, who took a path out of the church and then came back. They're really powerful accounts. One thing that's interesting is as they're leaving the church, in the narratives, they'll reference the church this, the church doesn't do this, and a lot of reference to the church itself. And in coming back, you don't even see hardly any reference to church. You see relationship with God. They've experienced him here. They're replacing religion for God himself. These people here at the time and not seeing the being who is their God before them. And so there is something about coming to experience God,

knowing him, feeling him. That is essential. There's a verse in Third Nephi that Elder D. Todd Christofferson used. He gave a great talk in 2015 called Why the Church? And he said, we're not striving for conversion to the church. We're striving to be converted to the Lord. And then he quotes this Third Nephi 28. I think it's like 23 that says, and they were converted to the Lord. And then he quotes this third Nephi 28, I think it's like 23 that says, and they were converted unto the Lord.

Book of Mormon never says converts to the church. It's very consistent, converted unto the Lord and united with the church. Yes, that it's the channel to connection with Christ. Yeah. But if your conversions to the wrong thing and you notice problems in the church or faults with people, well, you're converted to the wrong thing.

Our conversion is to the Lord. And then we unite with the church, which is a big club of imperfect people that are trying to further their conversion to the Lord. So I'm glad you said it that way. Yeah. Oh, well, he's going to do some foreshadowing again in these sections. Verse 33 here again is remarkable literary, but he's going to foreshadow his own being taken from the earth. So he says, yet a little while am I with you?

And then I go unto him that sent me. Ye shall seek me and ye shall not find me. And where I am thither, ye cannot come. And again in 35, ye shall seek me and ye shall not see the veil rent, he makes it possible for us to come through. And here he says, you cannot come, but then he rends the veil and makes it possible for us to enter into that sacred our eternal purpose for coming was to return again changed into beings who are like him and jesus is the veil isn't it in hebrews like 10 is the veil yeah he's the veil 10 20 and he was rent and through the veil we're brought back to the Father. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, so beautiful. I think President Nelson even compares the garment of the holy priesthood to the veil and that symbolically that is Christ himself through which we enter. So I love that he says, you cannot find me, you cannot come. And then he rends the veil. That's his purpose and overcomes it all that we can come there. So here's 37. Here's the place, Hank. Here's the water place and John, the water place. So here, it's the last day of the feast. They don't go get the water on the last day of the feast. I think it's all the previous days. And he stands up and it says, he cried saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture had said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

I love this reference to Psalms 78. He claved the rocks in the wilderness and gave them drink as out of the great depths, that language out of the depth of his soul, his atonement for us, his going beneath it all. And you think of deep water, like in the deep well, and that this will flow forth. He will bring streams of healing water out of himself. And of course it did when you read in John, when the soldier pierced his body, that blood and water came out literally from his belly. I love those beautiful references to Revelation 12. So John's words again, Revelation 22 verses 1 and 17, a river of water of life proceeds from the throne of the Lamb and waters the tree of life and all are invited to come. So here's John just elucidating the power of what he said here. It is for me from this atoning

sacrifice that living water will proceed from the throne of the lamb and water the tree of life and give us access to life. It's so fascinating to me that in John 7, Jesus seems to be up here teaching eternal, amazing things. And the people seem to be way down here discussing details. Like, where'd you get your degree? And why'd you do that on the Sabbath day? And aren't you supposed to be from Bethlehem? And he's up here. I mean, you're showing us all these wonderful things he's teaching and that they're down here having these divisive discussions about him. Like us human beings though, right? I mean, I'm thinking he's inviting us like come and partake of the waters of life freely. And we just struggle to be moved. He's trying to move them to a different place. And we struggle to be moved to where he's inviting us. And he keeps inviting.

He keeps saying, come. He keeps saying, come take another step. Yeah, you're right. There's a big gap. It goes back and forth. It goes, Jesus says something amazing. And then the people are talking about something totally different. I'm looking at verse 40. Here he's taught all this wonderful things on living water.

And they're saying, I think he's a prophet. I think this is the Christ. And others like, no, Christ can't come out of Galilee. Is anybody talking about what he just taught? Yeah. Part of the Feast of Tabernacles was gratitude for water. The season had come to an end. And in verse 37, the last day, the great day of the feast, as you said, Jenna, this was the prayer for water for the future.

And here's Jesus who says, you want water, you come to me. And he just upstaged the whole thing on the great day of the feast. And I always love to slow down there. Jesus stood, teachers normally sat like Sermon on the Mount, and cried. And he let them know, you want water, come to me. And out of his belly will flow rivers of living water. I learned that living water is water that does not stagnate. So a water in a cistern is not living water. And if you wanted water to do certain things, you needed living

water. The pool of Siloam, as you both know, comes out of Hezekiah's tunnel, which is from a spring. It's spring water. It's living water. And that was the water they went to go, as we discussed. They went down to the pool of Siloam to fetch that water in pitchers and to bring it up singing verses from Isaiah and everything, and then pouring it on the altar. And Jesus is saying, he used the phrase living water. This is where you come to me for the living water. That's why they had to go to Siloam. That's my understanding. There's a great article. Our listeners could just Google Feast of Tabernacles and Bruce Satterfield. He's up at BYU, Idaho. There's a long article about the backdrop of John 7, 8, and 9 with the Feast of Tabernacles. And it's really helpful to me and my students to kind of go, wow, and I see why Siloam and living water. But I love that Jesus just upstaged the whole thing and said, if you really want water, come to me. I can give you water. It's amazing to think of how desperately

they needed water. John, as you're saying, right, this was this like prayer at the end of the harvest season. And we depend on it being given in the season. It's not like there's some reservoir stored up for them to access water. It has to be from the living source, the natural springs and waters of rain coming that allows them to access that water and thrive. But I keep thinking, as you asked, what does living water mean? I'm touched to think about covenants. And he's going to be talking about covenants when we get to the Good Shepherd.

The Lord is referencing covenant language there. But what covenants do? And my students often say this. It's so insightful. I'll ask them, why covenants? Why not just a list of teachings about being a good person? Why not just the Beatitudes? I mean, my experience is when we live those truths, we have joy in our lives.

It brings healing. And why covenant relationship? And they will often reference covenant enables growth. I was thinking in these verses, he has to be referencing Ezekiel, the water flowing out of the temple that heals everything in its path. What comes from the temple is deeper and deeper covenant connection with the Lord Jesus Christ. We're learning that ever more clearly in the changes in the endowment, but that covenant connection never is stagnant.

It takes us where we are. The Lord binds himself to us where we are, however small we are, yokes himself with us and walks with us in that journey of becoming. And it is all about growth and development. And so I think he is the living water because his power to help us grow and heal and become never ends. There's no end to it. It's never stagnant.

And it happens through relationship with him, through ever deeper relationship where we are revealed to ourselves and he, who he is through the spirit, which is what John references here. This, he spake of the spirit, his presence in our lives through the Holy Ghost enables that growth and becoming like he is. And it's never ending. It's a living spring of water. Oh, I love that.

Fantastic. That is a great question to ask. Why covenants? Why not just a list of teachings? I just wrote that down because covenants? Why not just a list of teachings? I just wrote that down because covenants will connect us to Christ. And I think that was one of the things that was so concerning during COVID was, yeah, you can go home and talk about things, but we need the sacrament. And so bishops were scrambling to make sure people could have the sacrament in their homes

so that they could still have that covenant connection to Christ and renew that. Thank you for that, Jen. And I'm going to ask my classes that. Why not just a nice list of teachings? Yeah, to obey. Let's give a shout out to Nicodemus, too, in verse 50. And let's do a shout out for Nicodemus. Isn't that so beautiful?

How he stands up and witnesses. My favorite actor in The Chosen is Nicodemus. He's so good. He is a good actor. He's my favorite. And he's the one that stands up. Maybe we should hear him out. How about that? Maybe we should hear him out. Do we judge any man before I hear him and know what he did? Yeah. One of my favorite parts of chapter seven is when it sounds like the leadership of the Jews sends people to arrest him and they won't do it. They come back to the chief priests and the Pharisees, that's verse 45, and they ask him,

why have you not brought him? And they said, in verse 46, never man spake like this man. Yeah, this is not an ordinary guy. I'm not just, I can't go arrest him. I can't go grab him. I mean, everybody loves him and I kind of like him and he's saying really good things and they're upset, right?

Have we believed on him? Have the Pharisees believed on him? As if that's the standard. If the Pharisees believe, then we can all jump in. And then Nicodemus is like, well, I kind of do. Yeah. Can't we just be fair a little bit? Yeah.

It's a great little moment. But again, here's Jesus up here and here's them down here going through all these issues. It's fascinating to me. Chapter 7 is a back and forth, I think, between Jesus up here and the people arguing with each other down below him. And I think the whole fact that the beginning of John, they were like, hey, we're going up to the feast and Jesus says, I'll join you later. And then he goes up in secret in verse 10. And let's talk about if there's a feast at hand, what has happened to the population of Jerusalem? Yeah. Yeah. It just swarms with people, right? Everybody is coming there.

And it sounds like Jesus commandeers the temple grounds. Yeah. His classroom. Yeah. And it makes it tough for the Pharisees because people are believing Jesus. Right. And the Sadducees here directing the temple right there. Here's the political class, the ruling class, the Sadducees, and they are upset, I think,

Hank, about this commandeering of the temple space. They're the ones over the temple. But this temple is absolutely central. I mean, the temple, and we're going to get to where he is trying to tell them, I am the fulfillment of the feast. I am actually the feast of tabernacles fulfilled here in the temple. We're going to learn a few more powerful things. Chapter eight is one of the stories that was so striking to my husband in his very first reading of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. And of course, here we have early in the morning, he came again into the temple and all the people came unto him and he sat down and taught them. And in the midst of that, the scribes and Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery. I think it's interesting that John has these many powerful experiences with

women that he highlights, right? You have John focusing on the woman at the well and an actual dialogue and interchange with Jesus Christ, with women, Mary, his mother. Of course, he starts John with that Mary Magdalene, who will be the first witness of the resurrection. Mary and Martha. And he is teaching us great things about Jesus Christ and his relationship with women and these magnificent women. And here's a woman again, not unlike all of us, who has sinned. So they're trying to trap him. Master, this woman was taken into adultery.

Moses commanded in the law, remember the law that we're commemorating here, that such should be stoned. What sayest thou? And of course, the question is, will he go against the law of Moses or will he go against the Romans who have removed from them the power to use capital punishment and this effort to trap him and this remarkable redeemer who stoops down and is writing on the ground as though he heard them not. And then he says to them, he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. I just think of any of us in that place.

If we're seeing someone accused or we ourselves are accused and the Savior's saying, and even aware of our sins and the Savior's saying, okay, whoever is without sin, you be the first to cast the stone. Go ahead. And none of them can do it. I don't sense that this is an honest group of people. Not one of them can be the first to cast that stone. And I don't know how long this process takes, but pretty soon they all walk away. Being convicted by their own conscience. Janet, what you just said, the question's not honest. There's gotcha questions.

There's Google questions, just information. Like where's the nearest five guys? My favorite google question and there's golden questions they're not trying to learn truth here they're trying to trap jesus in a gotcha they did this to abinadi what would isaiah mean when he said how beautiful upon the mountains abinadi because you're kind of a gloomy gus there are gotcha questions they're not about learning truth and i just loved how jesus handled gotcha questions. They're not about learning truth. And I just loved how Jesus handled gotcha questions. Because I feel like the whole parable of the Good Samaritan came as a

result of a gotcha question. Well, who's my neighbor? Watch this, because that was a big debate they had. They're not trying to learn the truth. Like you said, this story with your husband, what an incredible answer. Let he who is without sin first cast a stone. And thankfully, they had enough of a conscience that one by one they left and said, look, I'm a sinner too. I mean, I think that's why we all love the story. You said, John, that unveiling of the hypocrisy. He does that for us. He is so good to us. He will expose

us in our dishonesty to ourselves and unveil our hypocrisy so that we can be healed. Now, you hope they are healed. Isn't it beautiful that we know from the JST that she, from ever after that, was faithful and good and believed on his name and followed him just a beautiful. I love the way Jesus diffuses the situation. I'm sure it's pretty intense. Everybody's staring. Yes. Without answering, he walks away, kind of takes the attention off of the woman and onto him as he's kind of just on the ground writing. Yeah. Yeah. Diffusing all of that so that there's space for him to ask this in critical question. Yeah. Instead of reacting. And I think it's a good life skill too. When you come into these

situations that are pretty intense, learn to diffuse them to calm things down, then call them all up for their hypocrisy. That's probably not what you do next, but I like the diffusing of the situation. So powerful. And there he is. They all leave and the woman is standing in the midst, this shamed, so shamed. I love what Jesus Christ does with us because our ubiquitous experience with shame, where we enter into that deformed form of pride in a sense

and feel ashamed and accused and how he says, where are those thine accusers? And so often I'll think tender with me, my own weaknesses and feeling tempted to go into a place of shame. And I can hear his voice say, where are your accusers? Hath no man condemned thee? And then he says, the only one who could have from a place of judgment condemned her because of his own purity. The only one who could have says, neither do I condemn thee. Go.

And his just beautiful liberation. He is the great liberator, liberating us from shame, from the entrapment of sin, bearing it himself in a sense with us, overcoming it and making us free. So can't you hear him saying in John, for God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be

saved. And he is just exhibiting it right here. That's who he is. I love Adam Miller's comments on this whole idea of judgment and law. It's so powerful for me to think about how natural it is for us to kind of divide the world into the law keepers, those who are worthy of what is good and those who are not. And he asked this really powerful question. The real question is, how do I relate to the law? Do I go around in my own efforts to keep away from my own shame or whatever, saying, look, those are the people that don't keep the law. They're the losers. They're those that do keep the law and they're the winners and they're going to get the reward. And you can look around at church and see who's been the law keeper and who hasn't.

That's the way they are relating to the law. And Jesus Christ is transforming it. He's saying the law is to be used in the work of love. He is judging, but he's not judging who's worthy or who's not of his love. He's saying what is needed. That's how he's using the law, knowing that we will sin and reap consequences for our sins, and that he comes and answers it not by accusing us, but saying what is needed to do what is needed and what will help you to become good. So he'll say sin uses God's law to ask what is needed and what will help you to become good. So he'll say sin uses God's law to ask what is deserved. Grace uses God's law to ask what is needed. Here is Jesus Christ always

returning good for evil. That is how he fulfills the law. And the good that he returns is to help us become good. The law is used to judge what is needed, not to condemn. But we mortals, we can get into that behavioristic, perfectionistic, prove that we're somehow worthy or meriting something and use the law to judge ourselves or others or rank. And he is just turning that upside down. He's saying the law matters. The law matters because it helps us know what is needed to help become good. It's used in the work of love, not in the work of ordering, condemning, ranking. Do you know what else I love about this as a parenting application? Well, not just parenting, but just as a social skill. I just heard somebody say once, there was some research that one of the things that was hard

for teenagers was being reprimanded or corrected in front of their friends. And you notice that Jesus didn't say, is this true? While everybody was still standing there with the stone in their hand, he dismissed them first. So I've underlined in verse 9, Jesus was left alone and the woman standing in the midst. And the saying that I heard was, we praise in public, but we correct in private. He dismissed the whole group before he talked to her about that. And it's helped me as a parent to think if I need to say something to one of my kids, I don't know in front of their friends, I say, hi, can I talk to you for a minute in the laundry room? The laundry room is always a good room. Right. Because like you said, oh, just imagine the shame of this woman and what was happening and how he dismissed everybody first. I think taking her feelings into account is just beautiful. Yeah. Yes. So instructive. I brought a quote from Joseph Smith today, and I've always loved it. He says this, while one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy,

the great parent of the universe looks upon the whole family with fatherly care and paternal regard. Another quote from him related, the nearer we get to our heavenly father, the more we are disposed to look with compassion upon perishing souls. We feel we want to take them upon our shoulders and cast their sins behind our backs. And then just this statement is worth the price of admission here. He says, if you would have God have mercy on you, have mercy on one another. This wonderful, merciful story is perfect for that. Out of the manual, it says,

when have you felt like the woman receiving mercy instead of condemnation from the savior? And then this other question, I'm glad that this is in the manual. When have you been like the scribes and the Pharisees, accusing, judging others, even when you yourself are not without sin? Two powerful questions. Yeah, those are good ones. I loved that. All that we learn in this story. I was curious to hear Richard Holtzhoffel just mention that very near this place where the Savior's giving this most powerful teaching, Solomon had prayed before, very close to this very spot.

Here's 1 Kings 8.39. Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways whose heart thou knowest. So just speaking of who God is, the great forgiver who gives what is needed to help us become good, who liberates us from shame and the effects of sin in our hearts and enables us to live again and start again and be renewed. The manual also quotes Elder Rendland saying, surely the Savior did not condone adultery, but he also did not condemn the woman. He encouraged her to reform her life. She was motivated to change because of his compassion and mercy. We can learn so much from that in parenting or in teaching or in any sort of leadership. He didn't condone the action.

He didn't condemn the person. He encouraged her to reform her life. And she, the person on the other end, was motivated because of compassion and mercy. Think of that as a parent or think of that as a leader in any organization. Or as a spouse. One of the things I love about my wife is she forgives quickly. She forgives and forgets. And what a great thing as a spouse to be forgiving. Yeah. His love is relentless in that sense. And it penetrates our shame and fear, the power of his love. And it is the power to change. The relentlessness of his love makes our lives relentlessly beautiful. It's just what he does and the power of that love. You rarely see someone criticized into righteousness.

Yes. Yes. If I just criticize them enough, they'll turn their life around. That's not motivating. That's when you disappear. That's when you don't want to be around criticism. So you hide, you go somewhere else. And he's so loving. I love the JST edition, as you mentioned, Janet, that believed on his name from that time forth because of his love. Yeah, beautiful. Well, it teaches me a lot how to be a better parent. I can say my natural instinct to criticize, to point out, to accuse that word for Satan, right? The great accuser, another of his names, and how the Lord is never in that space. It's the opposite of that space. So here he is in verse 12, I am the light of the world. And of course, basking in a sense in the

great lights that have been raised at the Feast of Tabernacles, those basins of light on the top of the big candlesticks. And he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. These events are so beautifully juxtaposed. So he's given her the light of life, even as he's given them light to see their own sinfulness in accusing, and that he is the light that leads to greater life taking us out of darkness. So Feast of Tabernacles during the day at night, these huge celebrations with a huge amount of light for their time with these huge candelabras. And then Jesus saying, just like the water, I am the light of the world. You know, those are impressive, but I am the light of the world. Those are impressive, but I am the light of the world. And it's just another way that I think the Feast of the Tabernacles becomes a backdrop for those two metaphors, water and light.

Yes. John, I'm so glad you mentioned it because, of course, symbolically, it's the cloud by day, fire by night. Another Moses thing. Yes. Here's them in the wilderness, and he is their light completely in the dark of that desert. And yet he is the light of the whole world. He's saying as great as that was symbolized in the candelabras, I am the light of the world. We can say lots about that and we can, but there again in verse 15, he's going to say,

ye judge after the flesh. I judge no man. We could think of John 12, 47. I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. And then he says, and yet if I judge, my judgment is true. His judgment is right in line with his beautiful mission. The spirit of the Lord is upon me to preach the gospel to the poor, to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance. His work is to set things right, to advocate for those who can't take care of themselves, to defeat death and hell. That is the work he is doing.

And his work will not stop until all things have been made right and he's going to tell us my judgment is true his way of doing right is true because i do what the father tells me to do i love the two witnesses thing here in 17 and 18 that there are two witnesses my father i am the one that bear witness of myself. The father that sent me beareth witness of me. Yeah. There's the two witnesses, right, John? The father and the son. I'd love to remember verse 15. Your judgment is of the flesh. It is flawed. Yes. Yes. Your judgment is so flawed. You got to remember that anytime you're, you got to make a judgment call about the situations or about people that happens all

the time in life. If we can remember our judgment is flawed. He says, my judgment is not flawed. It is true. Your judgment is. You see through a glass darkly, right? That's how we all are. It's why we depend so much on the spirit to see. Yeah. And with that, we can make a righteous judgment if we apply Moses 7 and judge righteous judgment. What are we going to need? You just said it, Jeanette. We're going to need the Spirit because we don't have all the facts. Yes. Cannot see. So here he is going to bear witness of the father again so 18 and 19 as you referenced already john this these witnesses and then 23 i am not of this world and he's just continually 27 28 i do nothing of myself but as the father hath taught me i I speak these things. So just beautiful witness. In the midst of that, I love

in 21 and 24, how he says, ye shall seek me and shall die in your sins. Whither I go, ye cannot come. So he's foreshadowing again, his own death. And again, that reference, you will die in your sins. You'll seek me and what you need is my redemption. Don't die without my redemption. Don't die in that sense in your sins. Then in verse 24, he says, for if you believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. And he's just done this incredible act in taking this woman and showing that he can forgive sins. He alone, in a sense, can forgive sins. And he's pleading with them, do not die in your sins. If you believe not that I am he, who I just showed you who I am, then you're left in that place of damnation, in a sense, not able to grow, not able to be liberated as she had been by what he offered in freeing her

by the power of his atoning love and inviting her not to sin again. So just beautiful to think what he's teaching us about his power to forgive sins. Janet, it sounds like he's getting some traction here. Look at verse 30, many believed on him. So there's some people who are going, I'm in. This is good. This is the right way. Which is powerful because he's bearing witness of the father and they wouldn't have understood that in their traditional understandings of who the Messiah is, this understanding of

the son of God. And yet they can feel the power of it, the truth of it. I am sure. So then we get to that most 31, 32, I'll just read 32. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. This is my husband's probably all-time favorite verse in the New Testament, but he was at UT Texas, UT Austin campus. And they have the Texas tower in the middle of that quad there at that huge campus. Around the middle area of it is inscribed these words, ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

And he said the first time he saw it, he's walking by and he thought, that's what science does for us, right? He's trying to understand what this means, not knowing it's scripture, but thinking, oh, yeah, the more we understand the laws of nature, so to speak, then we can act on them and they liberate us into disease-free and all of that. And then he read them here for the first time, knowing where they come from, the words of Jesus Christ, and is able to see he is the great liberator. Every one of us desperately needs to be free from guilt, free from selfishness, free from the bondage of bad habits. We spend so much of our time trapped in victimhood or whatever it is. And he is the one who liberates us by the truth. So he is the liberator. He is, we know from section 93, he is the spirit of truth. He is truth. And the truth he enables us to see becomes the foundation of our liberation. It's just the difficulties in our relationships, then it liberates us to have the relationships we so desire. It takes the courage to face the truth and to be honest, but it is the path of liberation. And there is no other way. There's

just no other way but the path of truth in order to be free, to become and experience all that we need to, all that we yearn to have. And he frees us in every way. He frees us by enabling truth. He frees us by taking us from shame. He frees us by opening the gate to heaven, all the ways that Christ is the great liberator and he is the spirit of truth. I wrote John 14, 6, where this says, you shall know the truth. And later on in John 14, he says, I am the truth. I am the way, the truth. You shall know me and I will make you free.

Kind of changes the verse a little bit. Hank, that's so powerful. It's so powerful because he's talking about the truth here. And then he says, I am the truth. And that's where we all end up. We all end up in this broken place we need what he alone in his being, who brings together justice and mercy, who brings together all of it. All the contraries are brought together in Christ himself. He is the great reconciler of all things. So I love that you added that. It's really powerful. Yeah. And I love that it comes from a question. They ask him, how will we know the way? And he says, I am the way, the truth and the life. And I put in my margin there.

He didn't say, find your own truth. He said, I am the way. I am the truth. Their response is so not where he was. Again. We're Abraham's seed. Oh my goodness. We were never in bondage.

How are you going to make us free? Look around. See that Roman dude over there? What do you mean we were never in bondage? Isn't that so interesting? The paradox. And I should just mention here that Frederick Douglass once gave a remarkable speech about what the 4th of July meant to the slave.

And just to think of us celebrating the 4th of July meant to the slave. And just to think of us celebrating the 4th of July, all men created equal at a time when that was not the case. And he actually references these verses and says, you talk about being the sons of Washington, but slaves are building the monument to Washington. And he's actually turning back to these biblical verses. How real it is that all of us are in need of the liberator. All of us are in need of what he alone can do. All of us are in bondage. And I love how he says, the servant abideth not in the house forever, but the son abideth. He is the one who will make us free. If the son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. With Christ, all of us. It's so beautiful to have

Terry Warner's powerful insights and bonds that make us free about what happens when we sin against others. When we see them in a way that is not truthful, then we are in bondage to our own perceptions. You just get in a trap in the box. He'll use that reference of how we see others by the way we are treating them. And we're trapped, unable to truly see them as they are and how Christ and his truth is always the liberator who removes us. We feel trapped like there is no way. I can't see this any different. This person's so aggravating and so frustrating and so difficult, not realizing that we ourselves are creating the vision that we have of them.

And it's trapping us in this place where we think we can't get to freedom and peace in our relationships. Are these two verses together just another evidence that they were looking for more of a political Messiah for someone to free them from their sins? Because he says the truth shall make you free. And Janet, you just said from sin, from bondage of sin. And they're saying their answer is political. We're Abraham's seed, never in bondage to any man. I mean, is that what they mean by that?

It is confusing, right? A little bit because you're like, oh, no, there were lots of times where you were in bondage to any man. I mean, is that what they mean by that? It is confusing, right? A little bit because you're like, oh no, there were lots of times where you were in bondage to different people, right? Carried off. So maybe they are meaning more of a spiritual way, but it sounds like they're answering in a political way and not that, no, the freedom I'm offering you is more than just the Romans or whoever are current. They keep referencing, right? Abraham is our father. And it's natural for us as human beings to resist the need for redemption. Our pride is just so part of us by saying, but I descend from this group.

Like, even if we don't describe it that way, we'll think, but I'm this quality of person, or I'm meant for this kind of life, or this is because of the amazing people that I come from. This is who I am. And so it's almost like even if they were in bondage to different political entities, they were still the seed of Abraham, which made them chosen. And it's like they're suggesting, why would we need redemption? We're the children of Abraham. And he's saying, if you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham. I was the seed promised to him who would be the redeemer.

And yet you cannot see me in your resistance to needing a redeemer. And I like that verse 39 of it's not about your pedigree chart. It's about are you acting like the children of Abraham? Are you doing the works of Abraham is the question. It's kind of like, I think John in his epistles uses the phrase, you become the sons of God. And as a kid, I used to think, wait, I thought we were all children of God. We just saying that in primary. But it's like, well, now you try to act that way. You're not acting like Abraham's children.

If you were, you'd do the works of Abraham. Yes. Like it's abiding in that covenant and they are not keeping the covenant. How could they not know the fulfiller of the covenant, the being with whom they covenanted in front of them? Right. It's that it's abiding in the covenant. It's guarding that relationship with God and they can't, that's what it means to be Abraham's seed, right? Is a covenant keeper abiding in the covenant and they have rejected him. They say they're not in bondage at all. And Jesus says, do you sin at all? Yeah. Well, you're a servant

of sin. And even says in verse 40, you're seeking to kill me. You need a liberator. This is not the works of Abraham. And then to go to the children of God thing, verse 42, if God were your father, you would love me. And maybe if you're following God. And then the name calling starts. They're so angry. Yes. Isn't that amazing that they first in 44, he's juxtaposing this idea of truth. And he's saying the devil is the liar from the beginning. And maybe the greatest lie is that rejection of need for redemption. I think Satan is so the ultimate narcissist in refusing to need a redeemer. That was his whole plan, not to need redemption. And here he is, he speaketh of his own. He is a liar and the father of it. So he's juxtaposing that with he is the truth and the

truth will set you free. And the adversary is the opposition of truth. And that has to do with our willingness to see our need for redemption, right? The great lie that we tell ourselves is, as we were talking about in relating to the law, is I can somehow save myself by being all of these things. The great lie is how I relate to the law. Do I see in it? Christ is the fulfillment, the deadness of the law to me without Christ as my redeemer. We don't need redemption and you're crazy. That's verse 48. You're a Samaritan and you have a devil.

Samaritan. Which John, isn't that amazing? Because you already referenced the parable of Samaritan. It's so beautiful to have those early Christian interpretations of the good Samaritan. Which John, isn't that amazing? Because you already referenced the parable of Samaritan. It's so beautiful to have those early Christian interpretations of the good Samaritan, where there's a recognition that he was referencing himself. He is the one who heals. And so it's so ironic. And I love that John has this here. They call him the Samaritan. And in fact, he will call himself the good Samaritan. Luke 10. But that's supposed to be an insult in verse 48. Yeah. Yes.

And I love that year of your father, the devil. There is a footnote in the Book of Mormon that takes you here. And it's when Moroni is writing a letter to Amoron and he's bargaining about doing a prisoner exchange possibly. And he says, but it supposeth me, I write concerning these things in vain. It supposeth me that thou art a child of hell. And I always look at my class and say, would Jesus talk that way? Look at the footnote. And it takes you to John 8, 44.

Year of your father, the devil. So he was calling it like it is. And I think it's, you're following the devil. I mean, you're literally, we are all spirit children of God, but you're following the devil right now, what you're trying to do. Yeah. In his falsehood. It seems like the end of this chapter is they're going, they're spiraling down, getting more upset, more angry with him. And he's holding his ground until the end of the chapter. Yeah. It's so beautiful how he says, art thou greater than our father Abraham? Because he

talks about if any man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. There's the beautiful foreshadowing, right? Of his resurrection. But art thou greater than our father abraham and then how he says abraham in 56 rejoiced to see my day and it's just so tender i think to think of his relationship with abraham and sarah like this man with whom he covenanted i will come through you through your seed and in that all the nations of the earth will be blessed and all those the covenant children of earth will be blessed. And all those, the covenant children of God will be called your posterity and how he loves Abraham. And then he says, before Abraham was, I am. Wow. And that's just more than they can take. And they're going to say later, just tell us who you are. And here he said it over and over and over again. And they didn't hear him. Yeah.

And they hate it. They, they refuse to receive him as who he is. They took up stones to cast at him. Yes. So amazing. To end this section, I love how Richard Holzhoffel will talk about he is the fulfillment of the festival of the tabernacles. And it's just so beautiful to think of Zechariah, the book of Zechariah, which is foretelling the Messiah's coming, right? He's the one that will foretell him coming into Jerusalem on a donkey. When he comes, so it's Passover time, they enact the symbols of the

Feast of Tabernacles with the palm fronds that they're waving and all of those things. That's hearkening back to the Feast of Tabernacles. but in Zechariah 9 through 14, it connects all of these things, his coming then to the coming that will happen in the latter day, our day. It talks about the life-giving waters that would accompany the Messiah. Living waters will go out to Jerusalem. The Lord will be king over all the earth. And that's where we hear the holiness to the Lord written on everything. And the entire society will become sacred. So it's beautiful that these elements, the gathering at the temple, light, water, the kingship of the Lord, holiness, coalesce in the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles, which looks back to the wandering in the wilderness at the

dedication of Solomon's temple and looks forward to the second coming of the millennium when Jesus used as he's using all these symbols to teach that he is the fulfillment of all of this. So I love thinking about we will, right, as he comes again and the fulfillment of all of this, the Feast of Tabernacles pointing us to that great day of his millennial reign. And he stood up there to say, I am he, I am the fulfillment. They took up stones to cast at him when he said before Abraham was, I am. And it's kind of an interesting point because sometimes my students have asked me wait a minute

i thought you couldn't kill somebody i thought that's why they had to deliver jesus to the romans because they couldn't do their own capital punishment and i asked kelly ogden that question and he said that well this is more like mob behavior to stone somebody this isn't the legal system right and that helped me kind of clarify okay okay, because in a stoning, you might not be able to see who was the one who delivered the fatal blow or whatever, as horrible as it is to even talk about it. But that was mob behavior. When they delivered Jesus to be crucified, they needed official capital punishment, and

the Romans are the only ones who could do that. So I thought that was an interesting way to think of those two. Yeah. Taking matters into their own hands. Yeah. He always finds a way out of these situations, going through the midst of them and passed by. So he just finds a way out. Man, we just keep getting great chapters after great chapters here. Please join us for part two of this podcast.