followHIM - Joseph in Egypt • Bro. Donny Osmond • Special Episode • Come, Follow Me

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

Donny Osmond joins the "Follow Him" podcast to discuss the biblical figure Joseph of Egypt, a character he famously portrayed for over 2,000 shows in the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. Osmond shares the spiritual promptings that led him to audition for and win the role, and he details the profound personal and spiritual connection he developed with the character. He discusses the powerful lessons he learned from Joseph's life about maintaining faith through extreme adversity, the importance of staying true to one's covenants, and the process of forgiveness and reconciliation. Osmond relates Joseph's trials and triumphs to his own experiences in his life and career, emphasizing the need to trust in God's plan and timing.YOUTUBE:https://youtu.be/k4GB3_BcALsFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookBook of Mormon: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastBMBook  WEEKLY NEWSLETTER https://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletter  SOCIAL MEDIA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTimecode:0:00 Introduction and Welcome1:29 Donny's history with Joseph - 2,000 shows over 6 years14:16 Who is Donny Osmond? - Background and bio16:40 How Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat was created21:09 Donny's audition story - "You're my Joseph"23:57 The famous high note story with Andrew Lloyd Webber27:09 Meeting his wife Debbie - stealing her from his brother Jay29:41 Is Joseph one of the greatest stories ever told?32:12 Joseph's integrity with Potiphar's wife35:00 Donny's dark times and criticism in his career39:44 The coat, armor, and cup.45:10 Elvis Presley calling the Osmond home45:43 Family betrayal and forgiveness themes53:52 Living the character every night - "Close Every Door"59:09 Meeting prophets - President Kimball and President Hinckley1:00:26 Representing the church around the world1:02:30 Music's power to convey scripture and emotion1:05:10 Andrew Lloyd Webber's inspiration1:11:11 Personal stories and friendship1:13:19 The Masked Singer as the Peacock1:17:08 Joseph's complete forgiveness of his brothers1:22:31 Never compromising standards - performing for General Authorities1:23:44 Family activity suggestion - watch and discuss principles1:27:49 Final message - faith in turbulent times1:29:47 Closing thoughts on forgiveness and the AtonementThanks to the follow HIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host. I am here with my handsome and smart co-host, John, by the way. John, I was listening to a song the other day and the soloist said, I am handsome, I am smart. And I thought, John should sing this song. Hank, I am testing the limits of the processor chip in this MacBook Pro. I have got improve my appearance all the way to the right. It's starting to smoke in the back, but I'm doing the best I can here. That's so great. John, we are privileged. This is a special episode of Follow Him, one that I have been looking forward to for I can't tell you how long. In fact, I'll tell the story here in a minute. We have Brother Donnie Osmond with us. Donnie, welcome to follow him. Great to be with you.

I just have to add something to what you just said. When I recorded that song, the true lyrics to it is, John is handsome, John is smart, John's a walking work of art. Those are the real lyrics. That's the Donnie translation right there. That's exactly right. The DST. I want that edition. The DST.

Which means don't say that. Well, it's good to be with you guys. I've been looking forward to this. We're going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects, Joseph. I've done so much research on that man. I played him for 2,000 shows, starting in 92. But actually, I've been singing his song about him, Close Every Door, and Nany Droom Will Do and all that stuff.

Here in Vegas, every night I sing, Close every door, the lighting and everything is so dramatic. So I've been singing about Joseph pretty much for what, 30 years. As I search for guests to be on the show, I write down thoughts and impressions that come to mind, John, I bounce ideas off of you all the time. I had this impression, Lisa Spice, a member of our team can tell you this. It was years ago. Just after our last Old Testament year, I thought, oh, wouldn't it be great if we could get Donnie to come on the show?

And as we drew closer to this Old Testament year, I tried a number of different avenues on social media and things. I wasn't really having any success. I figured, you know what, this probably is going to happen. even after years of hoping, I actually think I said out loud in a prayer. It looks like this is not going to happen. Maybe this wasn't an impression. Maybe this was just me wanting to talk to Donnie Osmond. Lord, if this is going to happen, you're going to have to do some serious magic because I have come to roadblock after roadblock.

Donnie's obviously very busy. Within 48 hours of saying that vocal prayer, I was talking to Donnie Osmond on the phone. And I'm going, wait, how do you? did this happen? I think it was the Holy Ghost. I felt an impression say, we were waiting for you to ask. And I thought, that probably would have been helpful had I gone to the Lord at least once and said, if you want this to happen, could you help me? Once I invited the Lord, it happened, and Donnie has been nothing but gracious. Well, thank you. That's happened so many times in my life. You go as far as you can, and then you turn it over to the Lord, he does work miracles.

Yes, we have to work hard, but faith in our Heavenly Father's abilities to make miracles happen, it works. I've seen it happen so many times in my life. Yeah. Now, John, let's start with you before we turn the time over to Donnie. First of all, when you think Joseph of Egypt, what do you think of? Could this be one of the greatest stories ever? With family, with betrayal, with redemption. with forgiveness, just crazy forgiveness, with, hey, maybe God had this in mind,

then foreshadowing future events of what Joseph's posterity would do? I mean, how do you overstate what a great story this is? You've known me for a long time. I've often said, to me, this is one of, if not the greatest story ever told. With the drama and the characters and the depth, and like you said, the principles that are taught and the emotion, it really is divinely put together. Donnie, as you've been thinking,

what is your hope for today? I hope I can get through without looking like an idiot. Okay, that's... Because I'm talking to theologians here. On a serious note, I hope that I can convey my innermost feelings about a man who I've studied so much.

I've tried to live his life on stage and off. John mentioned a bunch of attributes. Joseph is kind of a guiding light to me, because it is probably one of the greatest stories in Holy Ritt in general, because there's so many principles you can take from it. The forgiveness is just one major factor. It's the constant dedication to his covenants. I look at this man who was 17 at the time, that he was attempted to be killed, was thrown in the pit. 17. I teach the 17-year-olds in Sunday school. It was your age. I was doing the Donnie-Marie show at 17. You're trying hard to

understand who you are as a person. And then your brothers try to kill you. Thirteen years in slavery and imprisonment. But he never gave up on his covenants. He never gave up on God. You would think that a young man like this, I've done my best. Thanks a lot. But he never did. Then this is a large swath, and then we're going to get into the details of it. But he started interpreting dreams when he was around 28 years old. He interpreted the dreams of the baker. And I called him the butler in Joseph and the amazing technical dream coach, but he was a cup holder or something like, what, wasn't he? Yeah. Which is so weird, handle your own cup, will you? But I know they needed a cup holder. Put it on the table, will you? The cup holder, Joseph said, you're going to get your old

job back. The baker, he says, you're going to die. He was so in tune with inspiration through the Holy Ghost. He knew exactly what was going to happen. Now, those are all the things we know about. Then think about the fact that it took two years for the cup holder to say, oh, by the way, there's this guy, but he still didn't give up his devotion to his covenants to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and his father, Israel. He stayed true to his Covenants. That's why he's a guiding light to me. He knew when to run away when there was a compromising situation, like we know of Potipers' wife. He's such an example to me, especially when I started living his life on stage. Now, it was a musical. It's a comedy. There's all kinds of funny things that we

did on stage. But when I sang, close every door to me, I lived it. I was behind bars. Guys, I have to tell you, I don't want to get too dramatic here, but when you're acting apart and you're singing that music and you're behind bars, there were nights, you guys, that I literally started crying. Because I felt like I was in jail. That was the turning point. That's when he started climbing out of this proverbial pit. He prevailed. He is a guiding light to me and has been for so many years. I'm excited to hear more about your experiences.

That is why I invited you on, Donnie. I am not a professional actor. John can do a pretty mean Barney Fife, but other than that, oh, I've heard it, I've seen it, yeah. I know enough to know that a professional actor will learn everything they can about a character, will invest in this character, will think about moments of their lives and really, really try to become the person,

put themselves in their shoes from their perspective. How did they see this? What were they thinking? What were they feeling? There are five places, if I remember correctly, there are five places in Genesis where it mentions that Joseph wept. He bawled his eyes out. Let's take, for instance, when his brothers come and plead for food, and he saw them,

they didn't recognize him. Immediately after that, he went into the other room and cried his eyes out. Now, I've got a theory about this. Two theories. That if he would have just said, guys, I'm your brother, right there and then, it would all been over. He wouldn't have tested them and tried them. But here's where I don't have scriptures to back this up, but here's what I'm going to say.

I think one of the reasons why he had to leave the room and cry, his eyes out, his brothers tried to kill him. They sold him into slavery. He suffered in dungeons. And he finally got to a point where he's now second in command. He's the prime minister of Egypt. He had to go in the other room and say, why did they do this to me? Why would they kill me? Yes, I was favored of my father, but it was the birthright. It Rubin fell because of moral sin. It fell upon me. his father didn't just say you're my favorite child he gave him the coat now for many years you guys correct me if i'm wrong on this because i'm not a theologian i always thought the coat represent priesthood authority the research that i've done i've come to find out and it represents more of

a worthiness of a birthright it's not like i have authority no says i am now the spokesperson of the family now put yourself in the brother's And I used to think this when I dreamed that in the fields one day, the corn gave me a sign. As I sang that to my brothers, and they were watching me with these angry faces, which is the way we were directed to. Your 11 sheaves of corn all turned and bound to mine. My sheep was quite a sight to see, a golden sheep and tall. Yours were green and second rate, really rather small. And the way I sang it was so innocent, I dreamed that in.

I was just this young, 17, 16-year-old kid at the time, living this role. Hey, guys, I just dreamt this dream, and you were bowing to me. Isn't that cool? Now, be one of the brothers for a second. I can't stand you, Joseph. You're just this little kid. Now our father has favored you. But worse than that, their peers were probably mock it.

You talk about bullying. Their peers would probably say, So, Nathalie, you're low in the totem pole. Hey, Dan, you didn't get it. They were probably being bullied like crazy. No wonder they were angry. But why did they want to kill me? There was that much vitriol.

We've heard stories over and over again where anger can get the best of people unto death. Where anger has such a cancer. It's such a great example. That's why we go back to what we first said, the story of Joseph. There's so many principles. learning this. One of him is anger. Don't let it get you. That's why he had to leave and cry many times.

Oh, man, this is really difficult, Heavenly Father. How do I get over this feeling of this anger that I had towards my brothers that tried to kill me? Then ultimately, look what he did. He forgave him. But he put him through the test, didn't he? Especially, you're going to keep Benjamin back. Oh, but you'll kill our dad. He took a chance to say, no, you bring your father here. And inside he's saying, probably crying inside, bring my father back to me. Oh, I got to tell you a story. I hope I can't even get through this without being emotional. At the end of the show, when they go back and get Jacob to bring him to Egypt,

when I say, your brother is me. and there's a party on stage and everybody's jumping up and down and joyful. I exit stage. I go get myself into the chariot, this golden chariot, and the stage fills with fog.

And everybody leaves. And Jacob came to Egypt, his chariot of gold, of gold! And I look, and I see my father coming towards me with fog on the floor. And he sees me,

and he falls to the floor. I get out of the chariot, and I pick him up out of the fog. Then he hands me my coat that's tattered and torn, that his father has kept for all those years holding on to who he thought was dead.

He loved Joseph that much. And then I look at him in the eyes, and I say, I close my eyes to start the song, just acapella. And you guys, there were so many nights that he, both of us, were just crying our eyes out of her. Because it was real. Can you imagine with a real moment when Joseph saw his dad for the first time and gave him that tattered coat? However that happened, however that took place, it did take place.

Because he did get that coat that his father kept all those years, held on to the love of his child, who he thought was dead. A lot of story of love and compassion. And I felt it every night. John, before we go any further, we do have listeners all over the world, so there may be someone listening who's saying, who are they talking to this week? Who is this Donnie Osmond? John, give us a bio. Give us a background of Donnie. I will from memory, okay? If you make a mistake, I'll fill you in a little bit, okay? Yeah, would you please?

I'm the fifth of six children. My sisters, Jerry and Sally, they had Osmond family albums. My sister Becky, too, who's younger than me. We all loved the Osmond brothers. I think they first appeared on the Andy Williams show. Your older brothers before you, you joined him, and then you started joining them too. Just amazing harmonies, barbershop stuff at first.

incredible harmonies. The kind of harmonies only a family could have, because they just sang so beautifully together. It was the Osmond brothers for many years. I think that President Kimball actually called them on a mission. They were missionaries for the church. Then over time, Donnie and Marie, oh, what did you sing together? A little bit country, a little bit rock and roll. And that show, we used to watch that show, because those were art. people, these guys are in the church. And the thing I just love about the Osmond family is they have never left the covenant path, just watching them. Over the years, going to Branson, Missouri, Donnie and Marie's show for so many years. And they had Paul, Paul, End on there.

Which I always, he always cracked me up because he had vibrato in his voice. But we used to watch them for years. Then, of course, of all the parts, Donnie, that you could be associated with. How beautiful, how wonderful is it that Joseph was the part? Correct me, if I'm wrong. Andrew Lloyd Weber wrote Joseph. Was he in college?

He was... Well, for those who don't know who Andrew Lloyd Weber is, he wrote Joseph, obviously, Jesus Christ Superstar, Cats, the Phantom of the Opera. If you look him up, if you Google him, he's the most successful playwright in history. It's fun to be able to have his phone number,

and call him up, just talk to him, whatever, but can I give you a story about how I got the gig? Oh, please do. Absolutely. To answer your question, Andrew was 19. I think Tim Rice was 20. It was the first one they ever wrote. It was 20 minutes long.

Yeah. It was a little high school project that he wrote. It was a high school project. That's what it was. It's 20 minutes long and it's turned into be one of the most celebrated musicals in history. I'll try to give you the short version. Debbie and I were living in Irvine, California at the time. Debbie, she's a pillar of light.

She's really in tune with the spirit. She started getting these feelings that we really should move. Sweetheart, I've worked for 10 years to get back on the charts, and I just had two hit record soldier of love and sacred emotion, and you want to move? This is where I need to be to continue my career. And she's, I know, but it's just the feelings they keep getting. And then all of a sudden, you guys,

I start getting these feelings of, go to acting school. You guys, I'm not interested in acting. So, go to acting school. So I enrolled in acting school, a beginner class, an intermediate class, and an advanced class all at the same time. Craft course. I also got the feeling, start training your voice to be theatrical. I said, what?

Why would I do that? So I pursued it. We sold our home. We looked at all different places. We ended up in St. George, Utah, which was not in 1991, the mecca of Shire. business. Since they've had some really good theaters with like Tuaccon and stuff like that, it didn't make any sense, but we both felt good about it. The script of Joseph came in. I thought, this would be interesting. It's going to require acting. It's going to require a theatrical voice.

And it's going to require us to move and we're renting a home in St. George. You see where this is going now? They said, the auditions are going to take place in New York City on such and such a date. busy with my acting classes and stuff in Los Angeles. I said, the only way I can make this audition is to take a red eye, fly to New York, do the audition, go back on the plane and get back to Los Angeles. That's the only way I can do this audition. On the way to the airport is back when we had CDs. I stopped the Tower Records on Sunset and got the CD of the soundtrack. I said, I'm going to learn, close every door and any dream will do. On the plane, on the way. I'll be ready. Of course. Get on a plane.

my headphones on, I hit play, and I fall asleep. The next thing I know, I'm landing. I'm unprepared. I go to this theater. You guys, it's just like the movies. You got this one, they call it a ghost lamp on stage, a pianist with a piano, an upright piano, and you got these silhouette of these high, powerful producers and directors that you cannot see. It's just a silhouette in the audience. Five people out there. Next person up, Donnie Ospre. And there's a line. of people to audition. Donnie Osmond, and I get on the mic, I said, Mr. Dobinsky, my producer,

I hate to tell you this, I'm unprepared. Guys, you don't say that to a good producer. He had a cruffy voice. He said, well, you got to sing something. I said, well, I'll sing on the piano. I kicked the piano player off. I sing a couple of my songs on the piano. There's no applause.

These guys are jaded. I hear him say, you got to sing something from the show, kid. I said, well, if you want me to sing something, I'll sing close every door, the hardest of the two, I'll sing close every door, but I've got to read the lyrics. He said, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. He was very impatient. The piano starts. Before I sang, I said, I'm unprepared. And then all of a sudden I felt, no, you're prepared. You're already prepared for this. You've gone to acting class. You've studied theatrical voice. You've been singing all your life. Now just execute. So I started a start to say, you. So I started a singing, close every door to me. Very softly. Hide all the world from me. And then I started building bar all the windows and shut out the light. And I kept going, do what you, and I started building. For my london's, I'll find our own peace of mine, for I have been promised a land of a. Then we did the instrumental. And then I do the ending, For we know we shall find our own piece of mine,

for we have been promised. And I took a big breath. A land of our own. And I held it forever. And I stopped. You could hear a pin drop in that theater. The next thing I heard was this gruffy voice. that said,

Come here, kid. I walk out into the audience. As I got closer, I could see the faces start to materialize. There were several people there. I looked at Garth. He said, sit down. I'm canceling the rest of the auditions. You're my Joseph.

That's how I got it. It was just before I sang, I felt this, you're prepared. And I thought back to what my mother would always say, to all of our children. prepare yourself and the opportunity will come. You don't prepare yourself when the opportunity presents itself. No, prepare yourself.

And the only way to know is through the spirit in order to get through this sojourn we call life. We can't do it alone. I look at Joseph, which is our topic today. Boy, was he proven. Why was he tested? I'm not putting myself on the same platform as Joseph, but there were moments where I was in a dungeon in my, I lost my career and everything.

right just before I sang that song for Gartre Binsky I felt something that said you are prepared I'm with you now just do it I love it

it was a great experience now one more other experience with that song during rehearsals Phil Reno I can't believe I remember his name Phil Reno my conductor he would always literally slap my hand because I would sing as a pop sing

close every door to me hide all the world from me all these licks you know all the windows shut out the light he said what is that you can't sing like that Andrew Lloyd Weber didn't write it that way

it was kind of a joke between the two of us all throughout rehearsals teaching me close every door to me The lyrics are the most important things. Long story short. At the end of Closerby door, For we know we shall find. That high note,

I would sing that every once in a while in rehearsal, and Phil would say, no, don't do that. Andrew did not write that note. It's not in the script. Every once in a while, just to tease him, I would sing it. Opening night, everybody's nervous, including me, because Andrew Lugge Weber is dead center,

third row back, the press are all in the back. At the very end of the show, I do a reprisal of close every door. Close every door to me. I'm in the outfit, the armor and everything. Hide all the world from me. Bar all the windows and shut out the light.

Then, at the very end, for we know we. And I look at Phil. And this is all in nanoseconds. If looks could kill, he would have killed me right there. He's like, don't do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.

For we know we shaffed! And I went for it. And I nailed it. And he was so upset. And I thought, okay, I'm going to be fired. I'm going to get fired by Andrew Lloyd Weber. I did a cardinal sin. You never do this in the world of theater,

particularly to Lord Lloyd Weber. We're taking our bows. I've got the narrator next to me, Janet Metz, an amazing singer, standing ovation. The press are out there recording. and I point to Andrew. Come on up, Andrew.

You don't do that. Without permission. You don't do that. He gets out of his seat and walks up on stage. The place is going berserk. Here's Andrew Lloyd Weber walks up next to me between the narrator, our genomes, myself.

We all hold hands and we take one final bow. As we bow, he looks at me and he says, where have you been keeping that voice all these years? That was all I needed, you got right there. And I told Phil Reno that, and I said, In your face, buddy! What was so funny! I'm leaving out the most important part.

At the end of the show, he comes up to my dressing room, Andrew Leggweber. And he says, and I don't do a very good accent, he says, you know, Donnie, that note that you sang at the end of close every dole, I said, yes, I'm so sorry. I did not write that note. I said, I'm so sorry, I'll take it out. He said, I actually kind of liked it. Keep it in.

So every time I hear somebody sing that note, I said, that's my note, baby. That's my note. That is beautiful. I love the look. Don't you dare. Don't you do it. Don't you do fine. Sometimes in life, you have to take chances, not unreal.

chances, but sometimes, like in that audition process, you just have to say, go for it. Believe in yourself. That's the other thing that I've learned from Joseph. He could have given up so many times, you guys. So many times. He didn't. He said, I believe in my God, and he believes in me. I can prevail.

I can do this. And he never lost his faith. There are times in my life that I look back where they were dark, very dark, because I lost my career, all my money, everything, but I never lost my faith in my Heavenly Father and my Savior Jesus Christ. Thank you for that. Since we're still talking bio here, it would be okay to tell us a little bit more about Deb? My wife, it's an interesting story how we met. She was actually dating my brother Jay first. Okay. I stole my wife from Jay. Coincidentally, as we are recording this, it's his birthday today.

So, Jay, if you're watching, happy birthday, my bro. Happy birthday? I was dating this girl named Tammy, and we double-dated to a Elton John concert up in Salt Lake City at the Salt Palace. Debbie was in front with her date, Jay, and I was in back with Tammy. Debbie and I were doing all the talking. I remember sitting in the audience, and Elton sat down to, It's a little bit funny. Your song.

This feeling. You guys, I remember looking over at my brother's date and saying to myself, I'm going to marry that girl someday. And I did. I told Elton this story. I said, Elton, you know, your song, it's the reason I found my wife. She is my Asinath, who was Joseph's wife. she was converted to the god of Abraham, Jehovah.

What you said a while ago is, wow, I never heard anybody say that. But when you could say the god of Abraham, Isaac, and of my father. Is it an interesting way to say it, isn't it? Of course, well, go get your dad. Yeah, we're all starving. Here in Cain and the future looked rough. Jacob's family was finding it tough. The family that left them unprepared.

I mean, I know this play. of all the things he would pack, he brought the coat. I just never thought of that. That is the moment that brings me to tears. You guys do that beautifully win. Here's Joseph and his father again. That's the part, and he has the coat. But what a moment.

That's one of the reasons why there's a lot of Broadway plays, as we all know. But this one is out of books that we consider to be the Word of God. and it's just a different connection. Oh, this is actually a true story, and it's from the scriptures that I love for you to have that part for all these years. Got to be by design. Do you know what's interesting?

I've done a lot of studying about this, particularly as a teacher, Sunday school teacher. The reason why the Savior taught in parables, and here I'm preached to the choir because you guys know this, is it transcends translation. The story of Joseph, regardless of, of the translation, or who's telling it, the principles transcend translation. Jesus' parables of the Ten Virgins and the prodigal son, all that stuff.

Joseph and his coat and his brother, all of these principles transcend any translation. Because the story cuts right through. They speak to generations, millennia. Anybody who has a family gets it. Any generation. It's not a specific generation or a time. That story of Deb makes me think, I need, I'm going to listen to my wife. My mom had the greatest saying, father was the head of the home, but mother was the neck that turned the head. You know, she doesn't say, hey, we need to move. We need to go to St. George. And that moment of, okay, I'm.

It all made sense. It made sense in hindsight. This lesson I gave in sent us to gold yesterday, we ended it with a statement from Elder Holland about trusting the Lord. And I've capped it up with, I'm 68. You guys are 16, 70 years old. I have a whole lifetime to look back on. And I can see where there's only one footprint in the sand so many times in my life. You just have to trust. Trust God. Just like Joseph trusted God, his entire life, despite the adversity that he was under. so often we hear i'll keep the commandments and everything will be all right well here's a kid who got him out when potter's wife and what does he get for that more years in prison there's got to be a level of things will work out eventually you got to have patience wait upon the lord let's talk about that

moment with potter's wife as uncomfortable as it is to talk about she tried to seduce him, and he ran. Now, what was he doing there in the first place? He was a servant. He had to be there, but he'd never let go of his covenants, which is a great lesson in living in the world, but not of it. He was surrounded by all this decadence and opulence, all that stuff, downright evil in certain places. But he ran. Now, here's what's interesting about the balance of this story. His wife, Potipher's wife, went to her husband and say, this is what Joseph tried to do to me. Now, Potiphar, he was in charge of the guard. He had every bit of authority to have him killed. Why didn't he kill him? He threw him in prison. He saved his life. Why did he do that? Because the only

thing I can surmise from this is that his wife is a little bit of a troublemaker. He knows it. He knows Joseph. He knows the integrity of Joseph. So I'm going to spare your life. But for the sake of my appearance to the public, because my wife is going to go out there and say all this against Joseph, I got to do something. I got to appease the situation. I'm sorry, Joseph, but this is what I got to do. But I'm going to spare your life. Now, you're Joseph. And you're saying, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Now I'm in the prison. Okay. For doing the right thing, God, I said, you go back to Joseph in section 121. God, where art though? And where's the pavilion? It covered the hiding place. Don't give up. Don't ever lose trust in the Lord. When he was back in that

prison, even after he told the cup holder or the butler is what I said in Joseph with the amazing technical dream coat. So you're going to get your job back. It took him two years to say, oh, by the way, there's this guy in prison, but he was patient. Joseph was patient. He waited upon the Lord. On the Lord's time. I always love the saying, if you want to make God laugh, make plans.

It's got to be on his time, on his watch. Donnie, we have listeners who we hear from who are in real, just as Joseph was, real heartache, real pain. we actually do have people who listen from penitentiaries. Just last night, John, I told Donnie this as we talked on the phone. A woman came to me and said, hey, I listened to your show through this period of I was getting a divorce.

It really wasn't anything we said. It was more the way she felt. Donnie, I would love to hear from your perspective, here you are really trying to invest into this character. This must have been on your mind. Over and over. How do you feel when you are in severe trial, in dark, dark places? How do you find hope? I just need something to hold on to, and I can make it through. Please, God, send me a little light. Why has everything taken from me?

There have been moments in my life. Again, I'm not going to try to compare, but I have gone through some really dark times. I was 15, maybe 14. I did a concert in Nashville, Tennessee, and a place was in an arena. The place was sold out. Everybody was having a great time. And the next day, in a front page, is a picture of my brothers and me on stage, and the guy ripped me apart. See, it was the worst concert you've ever seen in his life. It's so tacky and it's bubble gum and all this stuff. Maybe a year or two after that, Rolling Stone magazine came out with an article that said, The worst day in rock and roll history was the day Donnie Osmond was born. I mean, I've been through this my whole career.

Now, granted, I have some wonderful fans out there, but you get darts. When you're a target and you're a big target, you'll get darts. How do you get away from that? How do you withstand that? I go back to many conference talks. I love conference. I listen to it, and I read the conference talks on my phone over and over again. There's a common theme in many talks that says,

by living the gospel principles, the standards of the church, it's not going to take away all your problems, but it'll give you strength to bear them. It'll give you just enough hope. I'm reminded of Elder Bednar's talk. when he says, step into the darkness and the light will follow you.

If you're living your life, right, you're going to be in those moments where, guys, I don't think I can do this. I trust you, Lord, and you take the step, and he will follow you. I'm reminded of another, oh, this was such a wonderful experience a couple weeks ago.

I had the privilege of having President and sister Christopherson at my show here in Vegas. Not very many people get an opportunity of having a private audience with a member of the first presidency in their dressing room. So after the show and they really enjoyed themselves

and I said, was it a little loud? He said, no, we loved it. It was great. It was fun. And I said, well, president, this is a great opportunity that I've got to seize. Is there some advice? I don't think he'd mind me telling the world what he told us.

They said, what would you tell me and my friends? family to do right now. He sat there and I watched this second counsel of the first presidency receive inspiration. He looks up at me and he says, no one is immune from temptation. He said, keep that in mind. Even the very elect can fall as we learn in the scriptures. And here's how you avoid the temptation. He started quoting Elder Holland's final talk. When he came back from the dead, basically. Elder Holland, we've all heard the talk. If you haven't, you've got to listen to this talk. He said, I've been given a message to bring back to pray. And when you've prayed, pray again. And when you've prayed again, pray some more,

unceasingly. To answer your question, for those who are suffering, trust in God, it's not going to save you from your divorce or your problems, health issues or whatever. but it'll give you strength. It'll give you that light as you go into a dark place. You know he's there. I've felt it so many times in my life. I have such a testimony that he loves you. He loves us.

Our Savior loves us. If you let them into your life, your burdens will be eased. Yeah. If we could circle back, John, I failed to ask this question. So here's Joseph and Potipher's wife. When they showed you your costume for that.

Like, oh, yeah. There it is, man. That's all I wore. I hated this loinclot. But you know what, guys, this thing kept me in the gym. It really did. Because with this all you're wearing on stage, it kept me, oh, you know what else it should do?

Hold on. There's the coat. There's the coat. Wow, look at that. There is. There's the coat. There it is. Now, I got a funny story I got to tell you about the coat.

When I was filming the movie, the show was pretty much over. And now we do the film, and that's released to the world. So I'd done my 2,000 shows, live performances. We fly over to England to the Pinewood Studios. that's where they shot all of the James Bond movies and I love 007. I was filming Joseph in a James Bond studio. I thought, I've made it.

I've made it in life. This was the end of Joseph for me. It was the end of the road and we're going to close up shop and I'm going to find something else. Just before I walk out to do this final scene in my loincloth, I turned to my dresser, his name's Stephen McMulkin.

I said, Stephen, here are the keys to my car. in the trunk you'll find two large suitcases. I want you to steal the coat. I want you to steal the armor. I want you steal everything in my dressing room. This is my stuff. I started thinking. Blood sweat and tears,

six years, two thousand shows in that coat. I'm not going to let that be hanging in some warehouse someplace. They all turned their heads and I guess they had a good laugh that Donnie just stole the coat. That's awesome.

And the wine cloth. Oh, And this, I got to show you, this is the golden cup. There it is. There's the cup that I would turn over. That's the one I did for 2,000 times. Wow. Yeah.

What unique thing would you then tell the youth that find themselves in temptation? There's Potiphar's wives all around them, much more than ever before. What was it going on in Joseph's mind? I can't do this. How could I do this? this. Well, I think of what I've told my students in my Sunday school class. Sometimes, like with Joseph, you find yourself in a compromising situation. Have you already made a decision beforehand what you're going to do in that situation? Because if you have, you know what you're going to do.

If you haven't, the temptations of the flesh will take over, and the adversary's got you. I had an experience this is when I was really trying hard to get my career going over in the UK I was at the Montreau music festival is back when it was called

the Montreau Jazz Festival there were some bands I'm not going to tell you which ones but their lyrics were not the best let's put it that way okay I had to follow this one band I mean I don't even want to mention the name because the name of the band

is awful I had to follow them and then this other band, which was even worse, followed me. I'm in what we call the Green Room, waiting to go on. This whole show was being televised, and it was live. My manager at the time said, and I'm wearing this leather jacket. I'm trying to look cool with my torn jeans and stuff like that, play the part and really trying hard to get my career going. He said, it's so hot in here.

I'll go get you something to drink. I said, okay, thanks. So I'm watching the monitor, and I see him come up next to me. I know what he's got in his hand. he's got two glasses of ice cold beer. He gives me one of them. So I said, okay, I'm going to test him. I start to put it to my lips, and I'm just about to drink,

and I put it down, and I look at it. His eyeballs were this big. And I said, what would you have done had I drank that beer? His response, I'll never forget. It surprised me. He said, I would never have forgiven. given myself because I was the one that made you compromise. Wow.

Isn't that interesting? Just that lesson. Decide beforehand. Decide beforehand. Am I going to take it to the limit? First of all, why would you go to the precipice with just one little push you're going to fall over? They stay away from the edge. Now, granted, I've had to, to a certain extent in my life, play the part, be out there doing

the rock and roll and stuff, but I don't go to the edge. There have been television roles and even some. songs that I've turned down that I knew would be hits, but it would compromise my standards. Going back to what I said earlier, trust in the Lord. When I was about probably eight, seven or eight years old, my mom would have us memorize scripture. She was the greatest, she was a scholar, a theologian. Elvis Presley would call it all the time on the phone, because he wanted to be a preacher. He loved to talk about the gospel because he loved gospel music, wanted to be a preacher. So he'd call my mom all the time. She would make us learn these

scriptures, and one that is my guiding light is Proverbs 3,56. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not unto thine own understanding, and all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct their paths. In other words, make a decision beforehand. Don't put yourself in a bad situation. If you do find yourself in a situation, be in the world, but not of it. Be like Joseph. This thing I mentioned about Elvis, I got to tell you a funny side to that. My brother, Alan, was at the house when he called one day, when Elvis called, picked up the phone. He said, hello. And he hears this voice. There's your mother there. He said, yeah, who's calling? He said, this is Elvis. He didn't put two and two together. He said, Mom, some guy named Elvis is on the phone for you. is Elvis Presley. How many Elvis's do you know? Yeah, exactly.

Are you in the ward? Are you a home teacher? Oh, that's great. I would love to keep asking you about the principles you learned playing the part. Let's talk about family and betrayal. as Joseph is being drug away by this caravan. We find out later, John, you'll have to correct me here. The brothers say something.

Like, we still hear his cries in our ears. It's been decades. They've suffered with this decision as well. Yeah, there's some regret. Yeah. And what did you learn from Joseph as you tried to put yourself in his shoes about family and betrayal? Well, I've got to be careful.

careful about that because my brothers didn't sell me into Los Angeles, okay? They didn't throw me in a pit. They were not those kinds of brothers. What happens when the person or the people who are supposed to love you betray you? And how do you not allow that become the centerpiece of your life? Because that can happen. Now, this betrayal becomes, in essence, who I am. I'm defined by it. That's probably, I'm defined by this betrayal. And Joseph, that doesn't happen to him. Like you said, he does not give up on his covenants. He does not give up on God. So in those moments in the show, I mean, there's 2,000 shows, how many times are you drug away by the Ishmaelites? Is there anything that went through your head, anything that you thought, how would this be to be betrayed by the very people

that are supposed to care for you? That's what I love. In Genesis 42, when Joseph is hearing them talk about still with the weepings of Joseph, it really speaks to the human experience of betrayal. I have an experience that I'll tell you. I think I can mention his name. because he's passed away now. In the dark years, the 80s, I couldn't get a record deal. In this process of trying to climb out of the pit, my proverbial pit,

I had all these record deals pending. In the 11th hour, they'd fall apart. I wrote a song about it called Groove. I wrote a line and says, putting money where their mouth is took just a little too long. He said, oh, you're great singer. Yeah, we'd love you.

And they're time to sign the contract. We changed our mind. Well, I had a signed contract with Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson's producer. He said, we're going to blow the world away. Signed contract. Ready to go. Eleventh hour, he said, I can't do it. My field people say it's too hard to get radio play.

I have to cancel the contract. Guys, I've got to suit it like crazy. Now, here's the principle that I learned from that experience. If I had vitriol against him, if I had, had anger. If I had all this pent up in me, in the long run, who loses? I do. In many instances, you just have to lick your wounds. Say, okay, Heavenly Father, that avenue didn't work. Open up another door for me, and I'll try that. Otherwise, you're living your life in regret, and anger, hatred. Yeah, it'll consume you. It will consume you. I would rather say, okay,

It didn't work. All right, Heavenly Father, give me strength to go another path. And maybe the Lord allows us to go down these dead-end roads to strengthen us. Maybe the Lord allows that to happen to teach us a lesson that we can use later on in our lives. Everything is an experience. If you try with humility to say, guide me, Heavenly Father, guide me. I will do thy will. Somebody said in a talk the other day, it was really interesting the way they'd

put it, and I'm not going to put it in the same impactful way. But he said, I kept praying. I want to do this. I really would like this to happen, Heavenly Father. Humbly, I'm speaking, I want this to happen. And after all this praying, and weeks and weeks and weeks, he realized, I started every sentence with I and me instead of thine and thee. the fact that Joseph has this situation he didn't choose in Potipher's home, but says, this is what I have. I will make something great out of this. And then it happens again.

Right. And again and again, I said, How many tests do I need? Yeah. Be patient and wait upon the Lord, because he'll always come through for you. He's there. No.

And you're going to learn a lesson from it. What you started with, Donnie, was I think, at the beginning of our recording, the anger. I think it was President Oakes that gave a talk called Where Will This Lead? He had the power as Pharaoh's right-hand man. Could have wiped him all out or put them all in prison. Let's see how you like it. But who would that have destroyed? Joseph, that question of where will this lead?

That takes some maturity, some patience to humility to step back and say, yeah, I could do that. But where would that lead? John, there's an interesting point to follow up on that. There comes a point in time where you say, enough, don't push me any further, turn the cheek. And I've learned this hard lesson in my life as well. Don't cross me anymore. Don't do that. Which is why he tests them.

Have you actually changed? Because I'm not going to re-enter this. That's exactly what Joseph was doing to him. He was testing them. In our lives, we have to find those moments not all the time where we say, there's the line, don't cross it. I've had to do that in business because I've been taking advantage of many times in my life. First time is your fault. The second time, it's my fault.

Right. I'm not going to let it happen to me anymore. I say that with confidence because the Savior did it. When he went into the, he was not just some weak little person. He went in there and turned the tables over on the money changers. He said, don't do this anymore. Stop. He was authoritative.

But then, just like in Section 121, reproving B-times and increase the love. You have to do both. You have to be able to forgive. You have to be able to have boundaries. The Lord is the perfect example of that. Donnie, I'm interested in the conversations you and I have had leading up to this. You said you did the show, six years, 2,000 shows. That's quite an investment in

scripture study. I don't think I can ever say I studied a certain character in the scriptures every night for six years. Two thousand times. Yeah, for 2,000 times. And really invested. I'm really going to put my heart and soul into this and feel what he felt and see what he saw. John, you told me. I mean, even just the few hours, you played Amulek. You said it changed you. Yeah, we did a voice recording of the whole Book of Mormon where every character was spoken by a different person. Oh, what an honor to be Amulek. I can't even imagine. Oh, my goodness.

Amulek, who, how can we witness this awful scene when the people... I can't even imagine. That's just one of the most horrible parts of the Book of Mormon. It is. I read it and the director said, do it again and double the emotion. And I didn't take the acting classes just for a couple hours. As I was reading it, I was, I don't usually read this that way. I've read this before, but I put an different emphasis on this, and I just thought,

am I getting some help? So now let's talk about doing Joseph 2,000 times. Yeah, I needed a lot of help. Sometimes you drag yourself to the theater. I know exactly what you went through, John, because when you really throw, yourself into a part, something takes over. I don't know the words, I don't have the vocabulary to explain it. I just know what it feels like. Sometimes when I sing, and people have pointed this out, it says, Donnie, you close your eyes too much when you sing. Well, I go to a different place.

I actually live the experience. So you say, you know, 2,000 times, over six years, I still live it every night. Every night here in Vegas, I sing close every door. Five nights a week, I go through that trajectory. The second verse really gets to me. Because close every door, it sits it up, but the second verse, Just give me a number instead of my name. Forget all about me and let me decay. I do not matter. I'm only one person.

Destroy me completely, then throw me away. Those are harsh words. When I sing it, I'm singing it as Joseph, not as Donnie Osmond. If my life were important, I would ask, will I live or die? But I know the answers life far from this world. That's where the crescendo happens, and the key chains, close every door to me, keep those I love from me. Children of Israel are never alone.

And then for we know we shall find our own peace of mind, for we have been promised a land of our own. really up high at the very end. I live it every night. So when you talk about the feelings of what you did, I get it. Man, I completely understand it. That feeling engulfs you and it gives you even more energy to project and become that character. And you know, in that song at first, I love how it's like Joseph gets the strength from somewhere and then children of Israel are never alone. And this testimony suddenly comes out, I'm okay, I'm going to get through this because of God, because of the God of my father. Yeah. And then he says, for we know we shall find our own peace of mind, because we have been

promised from God a land of our own. We belong, we matter. It gives me chills now just saying the words. But can you imagine on stage with the orchestra and the energy of the audience and the spotlight and the sound? It's a great feeling. I love show business in that regard. It's a tough to be in. But when it works, it works. It's great. I don't think I could even sing in the tabernacle choir because, well, first of all, I can't sing, but second of all, my emotions would overtake me. If I'm singing it as well with my soul, I couldn't get through it. How do you do that? How do you sing that and not let the emotions overtake you so that you have to say to the audience, I need a minute. You do that. Like Joseph did. I'm going to go over here and weep for a little

while and then come back out. I guess it's called focus. You focus on the task at hand. Yes, I get caught up in the emotion, but I don't let it get the best of me because there's a lot of things going through my mind to distract what I'm doing, but you have to learn how to focus and say, okay, I have a mission. I always go back to that audition just before I started singing, I'm with you, you're prepared, now execute it.

John, last year we had Carol Costley on the show with us. She talked about the family proclamation. I didn't know this before we brought her on the show. We asked her about how she became interested in the church, and she just said, the auspence. It wasn't, I had a roommate, and I had this and that. Oh, and yeah, and I had the alzman. It was 100%.

She said, the alzman's. What's that been like, Donnie? I mean, Joseph was the same way. kept saying, if Pharaoh, can we find such a one as this, they noticed something about him. John, I know you wanted to talk about this with President Kimball. Yeah, the story that I heard was that he had called your family as missionaries. I would love to hear more about that. I remember the moment. Put yourself in my family shoes. First presidency calls us up and said, we'd like you to give the first presidency and the 12 a fireside.

Okay. I have never got that call. Have you, Hank? Yeah. Give us your testimonies in a little fireside. I'll never forget it. I don't know how many feet away from President Kimball. And he's sitting there, members of the 12, not all of them, but a lot of them in the first presidency.

It was my turn to bear my testimony. Now, can you imagine bearing your testimony to the first presidency and the 12? What are you going to say? How old are you? 15? 15? Something like that. 16 maybe?

You can't drive yet, but yeah. No. I don't remember exactly what I said, but I do remember one moment and I'll never forget it. I was looking at President Kimball in the eyes. You know how we always say, I know the President Kimball is a true prophet of God. I looked at him and said, I know you are a true prophet of God. Who! What a moment that was!

I started crying because the spirit just took over and I looked at the prophet in his eyes and said, I know you're a prophet. Oh, I got to tell you story about President Hinkley. He asked me to perform at the conference center. So I sang this song and he got up and spoke afterwards and it was really a wonderful, wonderful evening. Always go stage left to go to the tunnel

to go to the church office building. There's that tunnel to get on a golf cart. So he leaves in a distance. I'm following him behind. And there's a corner. I turned the corner and he's right in front of me sitting in his golf cart. So I slapped him on the knee and I said, hello, buddy. I called the prophet a buddy.

And you know what he did? He slapped me on my knee and he said, hello, buddy. We're buddies. Oh, man, I love that. Just the coolest guy. Oh, that is wonderful. I'm a Hinkleyite through and through. So I love those stories.

Was that an interesting thing to represent the church to the world? What was that like? Well, don't put that much pressure and responsibility on us, but every member of missionary, let's look at it that way. Whether you know it or not, people are watching you. They know you're a member of the church. Maybe not as high profile as we've been,

but we went to Germany. The year was like 1970 or something like that, just trying to get our career going. things were really starting to pick up in England. Nobody knew us in Germany. Our tour guide took us to this restaurant that was famous for 101 different kinds of beer. We sit down on the table and he said,

you've got to try, you've got to sample. They have samples. And my dad, bless his heart, he was a Joseph. He said, no, apple juice is fine, thank you. Our tour guy said, hey, this is what this restaurant is known for. You're not even known in this country.

Nobody will know. You just got to try it. This is what we're famous for. My father looked at him again firmly and said, Apple juice will be fine. He gave us all apple juice. The next day, front page in the newspaper, with a picture,

the Osmond's prefer apple juice to Munich beer. What would the story have said had we not done that? Exactly. Maybe we're high profile, but every member. You represent the church. somebody's watching you. Don't compromise. Be like Joseph.

Run away. Be in the world, but not of it. I've asked this question a lot. How do you stick to your principles and be in show business? It's such a simple answer. Either believe it or you don't. Make a choice. There's no gray area.

Do you believe the gospel is true? Or you don't. If you believe it's true, then live it. It's so simple. Live the gospel. the decisions are made beforehand. I'm sure your family did not make that decision there. Hey, guys, should we do this?

No. Should we do this? Yeah. My dad said, there's the red line. Don't cross it. Donnie, music speaks to people in a way that speaking can't. I remember hearing Elder Holland ones saying, we should sing and pray a lot more and talk a lot less.

Here you have this story put to music. it can become like scripture. It can speak scripture. You have this incredible gift that you have worked on and honed and it changes lives. It speaks to people, including John and I. How does that work in your mind exactly? Taking the story of Joseph, the text, the black and white, the words, and putting it to music, why does that change the story for us?

I know exactly what you're saying because I live it every night that I do a show. I could say close every door to me, hide all the world from me, bar all the windows and shut out the light. Do what you want with me, hate me and laugh at me,

darken my daytime, torture my nights. As an actor, that's great. Close every door to me. Hide all the world from a whole different me. So music with lyrics, it brings back memories. If I sing, isn't she lovely? Isn't she wonderful? It's so different than, isn't she lovely?

Isn't she wonder? Right. The words are important, but the notes enhance the words. Get your words. Convey the feeling. Close every door to me. Hide all the world. Just give me a number.

instead of my name. When I sing that on stage, I look at certain people in the audience. They don't know that I'm looking right at them, but I'm singing right to that person. Just give me a number instead of my name. And then I back down, forget all about me and let me decay. I do not matter.

I'm only one person. Destroy me completely. And I really, then I get intent. Destroy me completely. Then throw me away. Then I'm in, if my life were, then I really get into it. But it's the notes.

and the intensity of the note that really conveys the message. To me, people like, what did you call him, Lord Weber? Lord, Lloyd Weber, yeah, that's his title now. Lord Weber. It used to be Sir Lloyd Weber, but it's Lord Lloyd Weber. This is inspired. This is one of God's prophets. We're singing about him.

Is that inspiration to you? Doesn't he write that by inspiration? I'm convinced he was. I'm convinced because It has withstood the test of time. Yeah. It comes from Holy Writ. I can't lose.

The story was inspired. The person he's writing about is amazing. The life he lived, the trials he went through. The truth that's taught. He wanted to teach it. Exactly. But let's give a lot of credit to Tim Rice. He is the lyricist.

But Andrew put the magic to it. And the combination of Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Weber, when they put all that to give, together, it was gold. It's absolute gold. And they expanded on it, create more and more and more to where's two-hour musical now.

Yeah. That's still going. Still going. We'll go forever. There's certain things I've done in my life, in my career. Puppy love, that's generational. It belongs to a certain generation.

Little kids have no idea. Puppy love, what's that? Donnie and Marie is generational. Yes, it'll be on YouTube for, however, long. But Joseph will always be there. The other thing is, let's get down to business, Mulan, to defeat the Hans, I'll always be Captain Shane. Those two things, but mainly Joseph, because it speaks to so many generations with such a positive message. It does. I got to tell you this story. The story of Joseph, it deals with some pretty bad stuff that was going on. He was

wonderful, but the decadence and the impurities of the society that was awful. Some of the costumes, if you watch the video, let alone the live show, you know, it kind of raises an eyebrow, especially like, I'm in a loincloth, so I'm almost naked on stage. And like I said earlier, motivation to keep me in the gym and work out. But some of the costumes, they were like a nude color and looked a little bit, you know, uncomfortable. But it was the biblical story. Here's the funny part. This gentleman and his wife came to the show and I hope I don't get it in trouble,

but very faithful in the gospel. This is a story of judging. Never judge. Got him great seats. best seats in the house. They left in the middle of the show. I got a message back from him. How dare you perform in a show that the costumes are that,

not revealing because they weren't revealing, but everybody was covered up. It was suggestive, I guess, or whatever. The reason I say this is because don't judge anybody. Be careful. Don't be self-revelling. righteous. We have the truth. We have the fullness of the gospel. And a lot of people on this earth are wonderful people. They're great Christians. Inspired. Yeah. All over. Be Christ-like in all your

dealings. Don't elevate yourself more than anybody. My parents taught me that. Yes, I've been able to be very fortunate in this business and be on a platform. When I go on stage, it's a platform. People come to see a star. I learned this from Elvis. When he walked off stage, he was just a nice guy, you know. When that curtain comes down, I leave the star on stage. I'm a grandpa. I'm a father. I'm a husband. Don't elevate yourself. Even though we know we have the truth, the fullness of the gospel, and the gospel is still being restored. They're still in the process of restoration. There's still great people out there who are celestial. Be careful about putting yourself in that kingdom before the Lord judges.

That's a great line. This conversation I had with President Christoperson the other day. Within that conversation, he said pride, which is pretty much what the Book of Mormon is all about, is the fall of these nations was all about pride. Be careful of pride. And it's so easy to get it in showbiz. because you surround yourself with all these, oh, you're great, I love you, your show was fantastic. I've never seen.

It's fantastic. And you go home and says, I must be really great. People are just saying how great I don't do that. Let the Lord someday say, well done, thou, good and faithful servant. Then I'll accept it. I really like that. And that was Joseph's life. Yes.

How do you tell the story without showing the word? world he was thrown into. Yeah. Which is much worse than the actual comedy. He was such a humble man. He was in such a powerful position. Yet he was humble enough to say, father, brothers. Was it Goshen that he had to move to?

Yeah. He said, move out of Goshen. My family's coming in. There's a best part of the land and you're going to have it. He could have said, I'm much better. I'm going to stay in the palace. No, he's part of the family. He was a great father, raised two wonderful children.

He was a wonderful father, wonderful husband, dedicated to his wife. I could go on and on about Joseph because he's like my role model. I'm so glad I had the great opportunity to do that audition in New York City and go for it and take the chance and go for the high note and hear my producers say, you're my Joseph. because Joseph is my role model. I love it, Donnie. I got off the phone with you. I went upstairs and my wife said, you just talked to Donny Osmond.

I said, I know, and he's the nicest guy. He's the nicest guy. I felt like we were old friends. We were chatting. Did you tell John what I texted you just before? I said, hey, we're excited to talk to you tomorrow. Tell you this, but I have to cancel. I have to cancel.

long like space space space space space space space just kidding just kidding oh so my stomach drops let me tell you a personal donnie story my wife and i when we were first married kim and i lived at some condominiums i think i first ran into you at a desert book at university mall and you were super nice well i came over one day knocked on your door would you sing happy birthday to my sister sally and hank Donnie's so nice Tours the house with us sits down at the grand piano and sings happy birthday to Sally

The scream heard around the world is when I played that video for Sally But so kind So down to earth Kim and I are just okay we love this guy Did you ever receive my invoice for that It must have been lost in the mail Someone

And Donnie, has the gospel been part of that? I mean, because you're Johnny Osmond, but then you're still brother Osmond at church and your grandpa. Here's what helps me the most, the temple. I love the fact that nobody's different. We're all the same. Everybody's dressed the same. Everybody's in white. We're all trying hard.

Yeah, people kind of recognize me and all that stuff. But when you get right down to it, we're all. all trying hard. We're all doing our best. That's what I love about the temple is that, what a transition. That's why I loved when they called me and asked me to be on the mass singer. Do you ever see me on the mass as the peacock? I did, yeah. I was the very first one that they called. Dina Katz, she was a little actually booked me on dancing with the stars. She called me and said, we got this new show. It's called the mass singer. I said, tell me more about it. I said, all these singers are going to put masks on,

she started explaining. I said, stop right there, I'm in. Because everybody is on an equal ground. I get the joke. I get it. I was the very first one. T-Pain beat me, barely, but I almost got it as a peacock,

but it was so much fun. I got kids coming to my show saying, I had these two little nine-year-old boys. They had a t-shirt on. I got them up on stage the other day, and they just had peacock on their t-shirt. They just wanted to meet the peacock. They didn't know anything about my career,

but they just want to meet the peacock. So cool. That speaks to who you are, speaks to your family, speaks to your wife. I'm just like you. I have a platform, yes, but. But I dress up like a peacock. Yeah, I dress up like peacock.

The show starts airing, and I've signed a non-disclosure. I can't tell anybody. I eventually told my wife, obviously, but I didn't tell my kids. nor my grandkids, no way, because it would get out. The show airs, and I get a call from my son, Don. He said, Dad, I said, what?

Dad, come on. I said, what are you talking about? He said, it's you, isn't it? I said, Don, you can't say a word. Please don't tell your grandkids. He says, I won't say a word, Dad, but I got to tell you something. My children are in love with the peacock. It's especially my oldest one, Truman.

Comes the day I've got to take the peacock mask off. And the audience is screaming, Take it off, take it! And Don was videoing his kids. And Truman, all the kids are in front of the television screaming, Take it off! And I took it off, and they went, Grandpa!

That is awesome. Every once in a while, they refer to me as the peacock instead of grandpa. That's awesome. What a treat, right? What a treat for those kids. That's my grandpa. That's grandpa.

Yeah. And I've noticed that about the entire family. It reminds me a little bit. I know this is an odd comparison, but John, we've talked about John the Baptist when he appears to these two YSAs and says, hello, my fellow servants. You're John the Baptist.

Yeah. How are we fellow service? He seems like this person who says, no, no, we're all, well, look at the Savior. Look at the Savior. He would come up and wash somebody's feet. It's like, really, you're the Savior? You created everything and you're washing my feet. Yeah, I even died for you.

I wrote a song called Start Again. You know, life's not always simple. You stumble and fall. And things don't always work out and you feel small. Then it goes on to say, these scars are who I am. And when you're walking through the valley, just hold my hand. So if you read the lyrics of that song that I wrote called, Start Again, it's the Atonement. The scars are who I am.

And when you're walking through the valley of shadow of death, hold my hand because I've been there before. It's all right. You can start again. It's really a cool song. That's another song in the show that I don't relate to Joseph. but it's just my own experiences of talking about what the Lord did for us. How do you come to a place of forgiveness? We talked a little bit about this earlier.

It can consume you, this anger. But to not just forgive, but to reconcile. I find it interesting that after Jacob dies, after Israel dies, the brothers are scared again. Now that our father is dead, he's going to come after us. And Joseph says to them again, no, no, be not angry with yourselves. Yeah. Not just I'm not angry at you.

I don't want you to be angry at you. To me, that is so inspiring. Just another inspiring part of this story. As you're playing that part and he reveals who he is, doing that 2,000 times, I'm sure there were moments where he thought, how does someone do this? How does someone say, I'm your brother? And he doesn't beat her on the bush.

He's like, whom he sold. I will never forget that. Yeah. Let's not, let's talk about it. Come to me. Does he say that, John? Come near to me. Yeah.

Genesis 45, verse 4. Come near to me, I pray you. And they came near and he said, I am Joseph, your brother, whom he sold into Egypt. What a moment. Yeah. What a moment. moment. So in Joseph in the Amazing Technical Dreamcoat, the moment was, Can't you recognize my face? Is it hard to see that Joseph, who you thought was dead,

your brother is me. Ooh, get the chills and just reliving that experience. Because they were all kneeling down, face down on the ground as I'm singing, can't you recognize my face? Joseph is me and they all start looking up but Benjamin stayed down Now this isn't biblical but it was the way it was choreographed or staged but they all started looking up in unbelief and the chills that I got

I started hugging my brothers and that forgiveness started going throughout all the brothers but then I saw my blood brother that Rachel bore Blood brothers and when he looked up oh he was the last one for me to hug. And we just embraced. The audience went crazy. The brothers go crazy. The orchestra starts playing this party music and everybody's jumping up and down. I can't imagine what that was like

in real life with the real brothers and the real Joseph. There must have been so much weeping of please forgive us. And then Joseph more or less said, forgive yourselves. Do not be angry with else. Let it go. I joke around with my students and say, come on, guys, who hasn't sold a brother? Let's go. Right. Who hasn't done that? Come on. I've thrown many people into pits. You're right. That's pretty incredible. Don't be angry with yourselves. I can forgive someone and say, I forgive you, but you probably ought to be angry with yourself for quite a while. Well, he allowed that to happen. He allowed them to go through the pain. There's got to be reconciling of paying a penance as it were for the wrongdoings that you've made. And then turn it over to the Lord because the

atonement takes care of the rest of it. How do we figure out how to reconcile? You know, we have people leaving the church thinking that I'm so far off the covenant path. There's no way back. I just listened to this talk the other day. Was it President Oakes? You cannot go off the path further than what is it John Further than the reach of the Atonement or further than That's it

Yeah So forgive yourself We all make mistakes I've made enormous amounts of mistakes And I still need to apply that principle of forgiving myself And pick yourself up Move on

Try harder You can hear the Lord saying that Be not angry with yourself Come near to me boy was he a type of shadow of Christ or what yeah i have two blessings my patriarchal blessing i could spend an hour talking about that one and then i have a father's blessing i'm going to give you something i don't really share my father's blessing or my patriarchal blessing very much but i'm going to give you an excerpt from my father's blessing i was 21 years old my career was gone i really had to rebuild

myself and i'm trying to figure out what am i going to do the rest of my life i've got children now I've got a wife, I've got to provide, I've lost all my money, I've got to rebuild. My parents were serving a mission over in Hawaii at the visitor center. And I flew over there with my wife. We had one child at the time. I called him about three weeks prior to the trip. And I said, Father, I need a father's blessing. I need some guidance.

I need what Jacob did to his sons. He said, I will prepare for the next three weeks. And I want you to prepare too. I want the spirit to be very strong. because I want this to come from the Lord, not me. I will not obviously read it to you because it's very personal, but the one excerpt from there that has been a guiding light for me, and I can hear Joseph saying it,

he said, never do a performance that you wouldn't do in front of a general authority. That little statement right there has been a guide for me when all of these opportunities come in on my desk that might have a little bit of compromising? Would I do that if President Christopherson was in the audience? Would I be embarrassed? I'm not embarrassed of one thing on this show when he saw the show. That is a Joseph moment.

That is a Joseph moment. Do not compromise. Take that one step further when my father said, never do a performance that you wouldn't do front of general authority. Never do a performance that you wouldn't do in front of the Savior. because he's watching. He's watching. How many times John does it say,

and the Lord was with Joseph? He wanted to be righteous, and because he had that desire, the Lord was with him. My hope is this week that all of our listeners will sit down with their family. Let's talk about one of the greatest stories ever told,

and all we can learn. Watch the video. It's on YouTube. Watch it. And then try to pick out a principle. After finishing, turn to your children and says, what did you learn? Just give me one thing. What principle did you learn? Yeah, there was singing, there was dancing and all this colorful stuff. But what is, give me one principle. It's a great little activity for a family to do. Johnny, we were interviewing Dr. Mike Harris a couple weeks ago. We looked at the moment where Jacob reconciles with Esau. It hit all three of us. We got to that moment and it said, and Rachel came near with her children and you think, he saw this. Yeah. He saw brothers reconcile. He saw his father reconcile with his

brother. As a young boy, he watched his father and his brother reconcile after years of estrangement. If you look at verse, Genesis 33, verse four, it sounds like the prodigal son. It sounds like kind of a reunion. And Esau ran to meet him and embraced him and fell on his neck and kissed him and they wept. He lifted up his eyes and saw the women and the children and said, who are those with thee? And he said, the children, which God hath graciously given thy servant. Then the handmaiden came near they and their children and they bowed themselves. And Leah also with her children came near and bowed themselves. And after came Joseph near and Rachel and they bowed themselves.

And it's a little bit of a prequel. Again, a type and shadow of the Savior. Speaking of that, Donnie, there is this moment where Judah offers himself in place of Benjamin. Here is the Savior's great, great, whatever grandfather, saying, I cannot go back to the father and the lad not be with me. Take me instead. Just another beautiful part of this story. Yeah. Oh, take me instead. I can't go back to the father without all of these. It'll kill him. We did it to him once. We will not do it to him again. And here Joseph knows, oh, you're not the same brothers I knew. He was putting him to the test. He proved them. Yeah. And it goes to what you said earlier,

which is he's going to have a boundary here. He's not going to re-end. He's not going to re-end. He's not going to reenter this relationship if it's going to be abusive, right? Am I going to put myself back into that? I want to know if this is different now. Yeah. Hence, the times he went and wept like crazy, both sides with love and with concern. Talk about being torn. Oh, my goodness. I joke around. I hope there's a really good Egyptian therapist that can walk him through this truck. I'm having a lot of feelings here. I just want to say thank you. I think that so many people will love hearing from someone who studied Joseph so

completely and lived that part probably like nobody else on the planet. Seriously, I've loved it. Thank you so much. And for anybody out there listening who wonders if Donnie Osmond is the person you hope he is. He is. I got to experience it. I feel so lucky. I'm so blessed that I texted Donnie and said, hey, my name's Hank Smith, is what I'm home for. And the phone rings. Comes up, Donnie Osmond. So I'm going to call him and I hope I don't get, hey, kid, right? Don't call me again, right? I get this friend, this friendly voice. Hey, I'm interested. What do you want to do?

This is great. It's been wonderful. Donnie, just a last message for our listeners. all over the world. Some in Joseph's prime years. Things are great. And others in Joseph's darkest times. I think they'd love to just hear from you. Well, thank you for the opportunity. We live in a very dangerous world right now.

I had a wonderful conversation with Elder Razban the other day. And he said, the church has never been stronger. You watch the news, the world is falling apart. you talk to the general authorities, the first presidency of the 12, the world's a great place. They're the ones I'm going to believe. You can get sucked into all the bad things that are going on, or you can look at the glasses half full,

because we know the ending of the story. The Savior wins in the end. Yes, we're going to have some turbulent times as we have right now, but have faith in the Lord. He's in control. he will prevail at the end. What a wonderful time to be living when all of these prophecies are being fulfilled.

When I kneel down and say my prayers every night and every morning, I thank my Heavenly Father for being able to see these things happen, see all these things transpire, that prophets have been writing about for thousands of years, and we're watching it and we're living it. We don't know when the second coming is going to happen, but be of good cheer. The Lord's in control.

I love it. I love it. What a day. We've been so richly blessed and laughed and I feel so uplifted. John, I've said this before. I know when I'm aligned with the spirit because I don't want it to end and I want to be better. The Lord sees that too. And we're going to make mistakes.

Forgive yourself. That's the other thing. My takeaway. Forgive yourself. Try harder. Pick yourself up. start again, allow the atonement to be applied in your life because the Lord died for you. He paid for your sins. His mercy will pick you up and allow him to do that. He is mighty to save. With that,

we want to thank Brother Donny Osmond for being with us today. What a treat for all of us. And I can't forget to thank Dr. Brad Wilcox, our wonderful friend Brad for helping me put this episode together. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen. Our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, in every episode, we remember our founder. Oh, he would have loved this, Steve Sorensen. We hope you'll join us next week. We're going to continue to talk about Joseph of Egypt on Follow Him. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we'd love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament.

It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.co, that's followhim.co, to download your free copy today, and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our Follow Him family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kubweka, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen. Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.