followHIM - Joshua 1-8; 23-24 Part 1 • Dr. Camille Fronk Olson • May 18-24 • Come, Follow Me

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

What do a former harlot, a river that parted on faith, and a pile of rocks have in common–and what does God want you to remember about all three? Dr. Camille Fronk Olson unpacks the first four chapters of Joshua from Rahab’s unlikely covenant to the twelve stones pulled from the Jordan riverbed as a reminder that the Lord’s power is worth remembering.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastOT221ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastOT221FRGerman: https://tinyurl.com/podcastOT221DEPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastOT221PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastOT221ESYOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/z7y3dJlV5N4FREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookBook of Mormon: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastBMBook WEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletter SOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE:00:00 - Part 1 - Dr. Camille Fronk Olson00:23 Hank receives Robert J. Matthew Teaching Award3:12 Guest intro5:05 Overview of the Book of Joshua8:49 Joshua as Moses’s successor15:35 Joshua’s background and qualifications20:23 The Lord’s charge to Joshua28:18 The people sustain Joshua31:59 Introduction of Rahab38:02 Rahab’s testimony45:11 Rahab the Harlot–why the title matters49:19 Covenant with Rahab54:10 Crossing the Jordan River58:52 The priests step into the water1:03:26 The twelve stones1:07:53 Modern memorials1:08:45  End of Part 1 - Dr. Camille Fronk OlsonThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish TranscriptsAmelia Kabwika: Portuguese TranscriptsHeather Barlow: Communications DirectorSydney Smith: Social Media, Graphic Design "Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Coming up in this episode on Follow Him. They don't wait till the water backs up. The water's not backing it. They have to get their feet in. And how often is that for us in doing something that the Lord has asked us to do? It seems daunting. But he says, get your feet wet. Trust me.

Prove me. And see if I don't do what I tell you. Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my sanctified co-host, who does wonders among us, John, by the way.

John, I was reading the book of Joshua, and I stopped there and thought, that's John, by the way. I don't have that in my scriptures. It was writing with a footnote. Yeah. Today, I want to talk about the host of this program because a long time ago when I was at Brigham University,

there was a professor I had named Robert J. Jay Matthews and Robert J. Matthews, you may not know this. If you have ever read anything in the Bible dictionary, probably had a lot of Robert J. Matthews in it. Quite a scholar, quite a behind-the-scenes kind of a guy that had a huge impact on the church. Without him, there's not a JST, as we have it today anyway. Hank Smith was awarded the Robert J. Matthews teaching awards. Hank, way to go. Wow, John, I didn't know you were going to talk about that. Thank you. I was genuinely surprised when they said my name at the dinner. I choked on my cheesecake.

I really did. I did not see that coming. Ask Phil Alred. I was sitting by him. I was listening to them say, this teacher is this, and this teacher's so great. And I thought, well, what a nice thing to say.

I wonder who this is. In the ancient days, I think it was 97. I went on a know-your-religion up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I got to give Robert J. Matthews a ride home from the airport. I just got to talk to him for an hour. Somewhere in the conversation, we got on Zelf, the story of Zelf in church history. As one does. Right, as one does.

He said, some people don't put a lot of stock in that story. And I don't know, the way my mind works. I said, oh, so they don't have any self-confidence. And he cracked up. And the next day, I'm up at continuing education where I worked. and he called, John, what was that thing you said in the car? Oh, you mean about self? About self-confidence or self-esteem?

And ever after that time, whenever he saw me, guess what he called me? Zelf. Zelf. That's so funny. I was Zelf to Robert J. Matthews. That's awesome. I would be anything to Robert J. Matthews. You just won the award, Hank.

Yeah. Good job. I'll have to bring it with me when I meet him in the next life. Now, John, I believe. our guest knew personally, Robert J. Matthews, so let's introduce her. Her name is Dr. Camille Frank Olson. She's been with us before, and we love having her. Camille, welcome back to follow him. Thank you. Delighted to be back. We are glad you're here. Now, you must have been a very young teacher, but I think you cross-pass with Brother Matthews. Oh, yes. And, you know, even after he had stepped

down and retired. He had an office in our building, and he kept working. It was right across the hall from my office. Every day, I would have conversations with him. He had a profound influence on me. Even before I came to BYU, when I was teaching seminary, his teachings, he was one of the real true sons of God that was sent for such a time as this. It's beautiful. I remember once being a very young seminary teacher and he was presenting for us all. He was speaking on the Joseph Smith translation. He genuinely said this. He said, I don't want you to think I know that much more than you. I don't. And I thought, yes, you do. Yes, you do. But it was genuine. He really was that humble, good to the core. Thanks, John. Thanks for bringing that up. Now, John, let's talk about the book of

Joshua. What comes to mind? We have finished the five books of Moses. We're actually switching gears now. Yeah. There's some really cool stories in here. I'm kind of quirky, but I underlined because I thought, ooh, this is a moment. And the manna ceased on the morrow. Ban, bum, bah. Can you imagine? Hey, wait a minute. We got kind of used to that free food out of heaven. Some great stories in here. I'm excited to see what Camille's going to teach us, though. Interesting. Kind of a John Chapter 6 moment. No more. Camille, as you've been looking at the book of Joshua, you've studied it your whole life. I'm sure you've just revisited it. What do you want to do today? John just said, these are stories. Stories that focus on the time from they enter into

the promised land. Joshua is the new leader of the children of Israel. They're entering in the promised land until Joshua's death. It's just those years. It's the conquest of Canaan. It's the years of them finding places to live. As they enter into the promised land, it must have been a daunting thought to anticipate coming into a land already occupied with many people who would be considered their enemies. So it shouldn't surprise us that the theme of Joshua really focuses is a lot on covenants with the Lord and obedience. What a message for us today. If any of us feels like the future feels daunting, the messages from these principles taught about obedience and loyalty to covenants has application for us today. If you ever think you have big shoes to fill,

read the book of Joshua, right? You think, I don't think I can do this. Who's going to take the spot of Moses. Now, John, we may have some listeners who don't know Camille. Maybe they've just joined us this year. What do we know about her? We both know her personally. In fact, she's done quite a bit for both of us. What do our listeners need to know? I am looking about the author section of Women of the Old Testament. She also has written Women of the New Testament. Camille Frank Olson served full-time mission to Toulouse, France, which we've already talked about because my daughter was there, before earning a master's degree in ancient Near Eastern Studies and a PhD in Sociology of the Middle East. She's formerly the dean of students at LDS Business College. Now it's called Ensign College.

She was an associate professor of ancient scripture at Brigham University, served on the Young Women General Board on the Church's Teacher Development Curriculum Committee. I know she's written recently too much to carry alone. Mary, Martha, and me. And another book, But If Not, she and her husband, Paul, live in Provo. I believe that she was the only female seminary teacher in the church for a while. Is that true?

That's true. When I was hired, then those first few years afterwards, yes. And she's just awesome. We had so much fun talking. We almost never hit record. We were just having too much fun visiting. We're really glad to have you. Camille, thanks for joining us again.

Thank you. We're happy you're here. John, you've noticed when we have some guests here, like Ross Barron or John Hilton, they age. Camille. Camille doesn't age. There's something happening here. This is unfair. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.

Let's look at the Come Follow Me Manual. This is our only lesson in the book of Joshua. It's entitled Be Strong. and of a good courage. It had taken several generations, but the Lord's promise was about to be fulfilled. The children of Israel were finally going to inherit the promised land. But in their way stood the Jordan River, the walls of Jericho and a mighty people who had rejected the Lord, and they would have to face all of that without their beloved leader,

Moses. The situation may have made some Israelites feel weak and fearful, but the Lord said, be strong and of a good courage. What reason did they have to be courageous? It wasn't because of their own strength, or even Moses's or Joshua's, but because the Lord thy God is with thee, whithersoever thou goest. When we have our own rivers to cross and walls to bring down, wonderful things can happen in our lives because the Lord will do wonders among us. How wonderful is that? Okay, Camille, with that, how do we go about taking on the book of Joshua?

As you mentioned, this is the first book out of the five books of Moses. It's grouped together with the historical books from Joshua down to Second Kings. It goes from when they come to occupy the promised land until after the Assyrians have conquered the northern kingdom and finally the Babylonians have conquered the southern kingdom, so up through 586 BC. The historians that are writing this are particular in focusing on how, Jehovah, the God of the Hebrews, is leading them and directing them. So it's a religious history, and they leave out a lot of details, maybe some things that we might have questions that even might sound contradictory, but their whole focus seems to be to show that God keeps his promises.

Covenants are important. And you'll see that thread, I think, all the way through there. I just want to point out a couple of examples just to frame this for the book of Joshua, and that means I want to go back to Deuteronomy 32. These three verses summarize what's happened prior to this in the wilderness. I love the way it reads. I'm in Deuteronomy 32, starting with verse 10. He, and this is talking about the Lord, and when I say, Lord, in my mind, I'm doing it the way King James has printed it. in our Bibles with all caps, Lord, which is Jehovah.

Can I just say this before we even start? Because this comes up so much, I am becoming increasingly appreciative of the early Israelites' sensitivity to the name of the Lord. Not too frequent repetition of it. Instead of saying his holy name, putting the word and the way King James translator said it all in caps, Lord, instead of saying his name. I've learned that, I think, more since President Nelson asked us to focus on the real name of the church.

And the way I say his name when I say the name of the church, so it doesn't sound like any kind of vain repetition. To me, there's a reverence that is surrounding that the people felt around that name as well as his personage. Camille, I think I could do a better job. I know I could do a better job of helping my children with that. Because I've noticed when we finish prayers, it almost becomes a single word that they, like it's this sound that they make almost. Thank you for that. I think I can stop with my children tonight and say, let's just talk about this really quick.

Not that they've been doing anything terrible, but let's remember that we're not just closing a sentence here. I would be interested after you talk to them about it, and as they think about it, and as they then pronounce it with that thought in mind as they close a prayer, if they feel anything differently. From my experience, I believe they will. I think so too. I know I do. Okay, here verse 10, the Lord found him, and if you see in context, that's referring to Israel, the tribes of Jacob, the sons of Jacob. The Lord found Israel in a desert land and in the waste, howling wilderness. He led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. Isn't that beautiful? And as an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth overeth her young, spreadeth abroad her wing,

takeeth them and beareth them on her wings. So the Lord alone did lead him, and there was no strange God with him. There's a summary of the 40 years. Now, I think in some ways you could say that's a gross oversimplification of what happened. It wasn't just all so beautiful as that, as we've studied. They've had some real struggles in those 40 years. Now, come over to Joshua, the very end of Joshua 21. This is how the summary of the conquest of Canaan. This is nearing the end of Joshua's life, the idea that what have they accomplished during that time, during this book of Joshua. Verse 43, and the Lord gave unto Israel all the land, which he swear to give unto their fathers, and they possessed it and dwelt in it. Therein. And verse 44, the Lord gave them rest,

roundabout according to all that he swear into their fathers. And there stood not a man of all their enemies before them. The Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand. The reality is, that really doesn't happen in the way that that is beautifully stated until King David, right? We're going to see that. In fact, end of the last verse in Joshua, 15, verse 63, the last verse. They're dividing up the land, assigning it to the different families within the tribes. Verse 63 reads, and the Jebusites, the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah, could not drive them out. But the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem and to this day. Did you read that? Not all the people were driven out. And then you come just across,

on chapter 16, verse 10, the end of that chapter, and they drave not out, or they drove not out, the Canaanites that dwell in Gezer, but the Canaanites dwell among the Ephraimite and to this day, and serve under tribute. So there's still some of the Canaanites there. Then chapter 17, verses 12 and 13, yet the children of Manasseh could not drive out the inhabitants of those cities, but the Canaanites would dwell in that land. Yet it came to pass when the children of Israel were waxen strong that they put the Canaanites to tribute, but they did not utterly drive them out.

You see this tension between, in some ways, they're saying, God has delivered, he's done all of this. But yet at the end of this, we're going to still see peoples of the Canaanites, the different groups that are still living there. The writers want us to remember that God is remembering them and that he is in control. He sees a bigger picture than they are able to see. We've got to live with that tension because it isn't the way typically that we report history. Let's take a minute and look at the man Joshua because he is the star. Numbers chapter 27 verse 18. And the Lord said unto Moses,

take thee Joshua, the son of noon, a man in whom is. is the spirit and lay thine hands upon him. He said, verse 19, he does lay his hands upon him and gave him charge as the Lord commanded by the hand of Moses. Verse 20, thou shalt put some of thine honor upon him that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient. This was all decided before Moses left. What else do we know about Joshua? He knew what bondage in Egypt was like. He was there to experience that. He witnessed the parting of the Red Sea. He walked across that dry ground following Moses. He was among those who saw the Lord on Mount Sinai. Going back to Exodus 24, if you want to review those, starting with verse 9. He was the military leader that

Moses put in charge of defending the Israelites against the Amalekites. in Exodus 17. And he was one of the 12 men, one from each tribe, that Moses selected to go spy out the land soon after they left Mount Sinai. If you recall that story in Numbers 13, which I'm sure we just discussed, but remember, this is the same Joshua. Ten of the 12 men came back and were very discouraged, gave a very discouraging report about Canaan. Remember, they said it's beautiful, like land of milk and honey. But boy, there are some scary people there. The Anakim, the people of Anak that are like giants,

and we're like grasshoppers in comparison to them. And they have these walled cities. There's no way we could be able to make it. Whereas two men, Joshua from the tribe of Ephraim and Caleb from the tribe of Judah said, no, no, no. let us go up at once and possess their land, for we are well able to overcome it. But the people were afraid, and they chose to go with the ten, and that's the reason that they find out right that they spend 40 years wandering in the wilderness. But the consequence was, Caleb and Joshua

were told that they would not only enter the promised land, but would be given a land inheritance. That's all part of this background of Joshua. It shouldn't be then a surprise to us when the Lord told Moses, put your hands on Joshua and prepare him in front of the people to be the next leader. I think everybody in the church has maybe had a moment where they thought, I'm taking whose spot as bishop, as relief city president? I'm nowhere as amazing as they are. Yeah. And I think it would be one thing to feel that way when Moses is right there with his hands on your head telling you that. But how do you feel when Moses is gone?

When we get to Joshua chapter one, that's it. Moses is gone. He's not there. And there you are, Joshua, and you go, oh, no. I love right there in verse one, chapter one, what do we read in there? the Lord spake unto Joshua, the son of noon, Moses's minister. That's who he had been before, and said, we start this out, the Lord is talking directly to Joshua. We get that verses 2 through 9 is the Lord's instruction to him. I don't know. There is as hard as almost impossible as it would

feel to be Moses's successor. The only way, you think you could carry on as if you heard something like this from the Lord. I can't help but think of President Oakes experiencing something very similar to what Joshua is experiencing right here. I bet you both know that President Oaks came to BYU. This is February of this year. He told the students, I want to thank the many friends and members who have prayed and experienced.

support for me in my new calling. You can almost hear Joshua. Frequent references to the mantle of the office settling on me have suggested that I begin with some observations on the significance of that term. The word mantle is used in the Bible to describe the cloak of the prophet Elijah that descended on Elisha as a symbol of the passage of prophetic authority. The term mantle came into the restored church's history in many reports of the meeting in Navu on who would succeed the murdered, Joseph Smith. Many who were present recorded their experience of the mantle of Joseph settling on Brigham Young. Those experiences took many forms. Some had visual experiences. Some heard Joseph's voice, and many had a feeling, as each of us receives revelation differently. I wonder if Joshua talked about Moses this

way. He says, when Russell M. Nelson was called as our prophet, I had a similar experience. I had sat beside this apostle in the meetings of the quorum of the 12 for 34 years. But when the mantle of the prophet settled upon President Nelson, I felt that his prophetic gifts were magnified. We all have witnessed his profound leadership. Upon President Nelson's death, I experienced another meaning of the mantle. To observers, it symbolizes a transfer of priesthood authority. To the person who receives that authority, it is very different and very real.

Within a few minutes after learning of our president's death, I felt the heaviness of responsibility settle upon me, along with important impressions of what I was required to do now. We need one another's prayers. I feel the positive effect of your prayers. I am thankful, and I love you. That is a perfect parallel to this. Look at these verses two through nine. We don't hear the Lord working in very much the same one.

back in the time with Joshua. First he tells him in verse two, go over this Jordan River with all the people and to the land which I do give to them. Verse three, I love, every place that the soul of your foot shall tread upon. That have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. I mean, this entire land, he said,

I promised you. From the wilderness, and he gives the dimensions there in verse four that would have meant a whole lot more to them than it typically does to us. Then verse five, there shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life. As I was with Moses, so I will be with thee. I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. For anyone else to say, oh, Joshua, you can do this. Look what you've done already. You are strong and you are good. I don't think it would mean so much. It had to come from the Lord. But coming from him, there is strength in that. The next thing he tells

them, verse 6, be strong and of a good courage. That's repeated three times by the Lord. And then we're going to see who says it the fourth time. But three times the Lord says that. He said, I'm going to be with you, but it doesn't mean it's going to be easy. For unto this people, shalt thou divide for an inheritance to land which I swear unto them, only be strong and very courageous that thou mayest obtain and do according to the law, which Moses, my servant commanded thee, turn not it to the right hand, nor to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. The importance of obedience, these are important things, and then there's another aspect of that in verse eight. What does he tell him to do? This book of the law, which to us, the equivalent of that would be scriptures, all the scripture that we have.

But for them at that time, what they had was these first five books of Moses, the book of the law, or something that would be similar to that. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe and do according to all that is written, therein, for thou shalt make thy way prosperous, then thou shalt have good success. Meditate on this day and night, these scriptures, and I'll make you successful by being prosperous. I love to think of prosperity here in the same way that we read about it in the Book of Mormon. If you keep my commandments, you'll prosper in the land.

And if you keep not my commandments, you're cut off from my presence. the opposite of being prosperous is being cut off from his presence. I'm going to make you successful. I'll stay with you. I will be in your presence. I will make you successful. And look at verse 9. Be not afraid.

Neither be thou dismayed. That is only possible because you know the Lord. I wanted to ask you both about this phrase in verse 8 that I've read many times shall not depart out of thy mouth? I saw some other translations that I thought I'd like to have your take on. One says, never stop reciting these teachings. Another one says, be sure that the book of the law is always read in your worship. And another translation says, this set of instructions is not to cease being part of your

conversations. That's a different way of thinking this book shall not depart out of thy mouth. It's, don't ever stop talking about this. I think that's really very good. Think about it in our own worship services. To me, there is a difference when what is taught is grounded in Scripture. And you notice it's deep enough and broad enough that no matter how many times we discuss it or in what setting it is taught, there's always new things that we think of or,

hear or discover, it is so rich and so universally applicable. I don't know any other writings that compare. I really like when you said, the Lord's repeating, be of good courage. Did I mention be of good courage? Just one more time. And I wonder if Josh was going, this sounds like it's going to be scary. Yeah, just because we know that the Lord is with us, he didn't send us here to do simplistic kinds of things. He's given us challenges from the get-go because we are learning to become like him. That doesn't happen by having an easy, care-free life. It happens when we're put in situations where we need to depend on him because we know our strength is not enough. when we learn to turn to him and lean on him and move forward, even when we can't see the next step,

that's when we grow ourselves. That's when that sanctification is starting to happen inside of us. We change, forever change. He's going to come from that conversation with the Lord, and now he's got to face his people, and he tells them, we're going over. Get ready. In three days, we're going to be going over. Verse 16, the people then respond. This is what a chance we have whenever we get to sustain a prophet, isn't it? Verse 16, they answered Joshua saying, All that thou command us, we will do. And whithersoever thou send us, we will go. According as we hearkened unto Moses in all things, so will we hearken unto thee. Only the Lord thy God be with thee as he was with Moses. Then they say to Joshua, only be strong and of a good

courage. They echo and they're almost saying, we're going to help you. We're standing with you. We will follow you. Lead us, be strong. Remember to lean on the Lord and do what the Lord asks him and we'll be there for you. That's got to be one of those wonderful red letter days. for Joshua before they go across the Jordan River, that you hear that from the people. That's how he starts his ministry, and they're still standing on the east side of Jordan. One of my good friends, his name is Lynn Bowler. He was in sacchar meeting. I think he was on the High Council, so he's on the stand in my ward, our ward, sitting next to another High counselor. And they announce, hey, next week, we're going to be replacing Bishop Norton.

Ryan Norton. And this other high counselor leans over to my friend Lynn and says, oh, wouldn't you hate to be the guy who has to take Bishop Norton's spot? My friend Lynn, who knows he's the guy, leans over and says, yeah. I testify that, yeah. You can do it. The Lord is with you. You can do it.

The strength of the Lord, I can do all things. We will sustain you in what the Lord's asking you to do, which is huge. I like how you said that. We are with you. Camille, how beautiful that they repeat the Lord's message back to him. Yeah, that's really good. He's getting it from above and he's getting it from below. Joshua's like, I've heard that so more before.

Well, my friends, that is chapter one of Joshua. It's a great introduction, but there are great stories ahead. I love chapter 2. Moses has sent a couple of men to spy out Jericho, the closest city to where they're going to be crossing the Jordan River. It's not at all far from the Jordan River. It is an incredible location. You've seen it. It's like a little oasis in this vast desert wilderness. A fertile garden. It's called the city of palms, and you see palm trees all over Jericho. It's just beautiful. It's also therefore a very militarily strategic location. Archaeologists guess that this might be one of the oldest cities,

thousands and thousands of years back. And at the time of Joshua, it is surrounded by a casement wall or a double wall. That's extra fortification for a city. It was different widths. Sometimes they just filled the two walls with rubble, but it would make it that much harder for an invading army to get through. We read in here that Rahab, our star of Chapter 2, lived on the wall. That was also very common that they would be several feet apart these two walls,

then divided into different domiciles that people could live on the wall. Those homes become part of the fortifications of a city. It's probably lower rent, strict, a little more dangerous when you're part of the fortification. But there is our Jericho. All we read at the end of verse one is they came to an harlot's house named Rehab and lodged there. I think there's little hints they could have checked out some other places. Because word has gone out, there are some Israelites in town. Someone saw him go to Rehab's place. Now, I think we ought to first just talk about Rehab the Harlot. I do mom duty on Mondays through Tuesday. I go visit my almost 99-year-old mother. And I was reading from her scriptures the book of Joshua while I was visiting. And in the margin next to the Harlet's house, she had written In-Keeper. I'm sure there was some Sunday school class, some time along the way saying, oh, she wasn't a harlot. She was an innkeeper.

We're uncomfortable. We are. I say stop it. Do you know what? Rehab's name means broad. And we're not talking about a derogatory term for a woman. Think about this. Isn't the Savior's Atonement broad enough to cover anyone?

who comes to him. I love that in Moses chapter 7, verse 53, that reads, Jesus Christ, the Savior, Jehovah is the rock that is as broad as eternity. That door to him, the door that leads to our Savior, is broad enough for a woman who has a reputation as a harlot to enter. This story shows it. I find it interesting, and I could go on too long on this. It's interesting that we know very well today that there are plenty of men who have no conscience about using women's bodies for their own pleasure. The women are labeled with a title like a harlot, and the men have no label. We don't know what circumstances led Rahab to this life. She's called a harlot every time she's mentioned with one exception when it's just her name,

but every other time it's Rahab the harlot. And I think part of that is to remind us, the Lord is mindful of her and she has place in his kingdom if she will come to him. We find this Rahab has the capacity to be touched by the spirit. So let's just back up. What do we know about her? She's very conscious about caring for her family. She's the caretaker for her family.

And we read a little more specifically, like in verse 13, she has a father and a mother and brethren and sisters, and she's responsible for them. She has this inn, this public house. that she keeps. She has flax up on the roof. Some business perhaps with flax, you can make linen clothing from flax. You can make ropes from flax. It's a process, but I think she's a very hard worker, and she is doing whatever it takes to care for her family. When the spies come in, interesting, we don't have immediately, but she sees that they're going to be in trouble as some

it says here, verse 3, and the king of Jericho sent these men to Rahab saying, wait, minute, we got to get these spies out of here. A king is maybe a little grandiose for this city. It's like a city state. We might call them a mayor. But when she knows they are coming, verse 4, she hid the two men up on the roof among the flags. One thing I notice in the Old Testament especially. Men are most often the leaders of military and the political leaders and the leaders of community, but women are very often the rescuers. And they do it sometimes in ways that men are totally unprepared for. Many ways, men don't think women are that intelligent, and so they aren't prepared to be snuckered by them. Think of Shifran Pua, the midwives, who snookered Pharaoh.

Think of Tamar and Judah. Here these men come in. They are unprepared to think that Rahab could be a little clever woman and pull the wool over their eyes. And she does it. They don't even blink. I love the way she does it. Look at verse four.

She says, oh, it's true. There came men unto me. and I know not where they went. And it came to pass about the time of the shutting of the gate, which would be at the end of the day as it's getting dark. When it was dark that the men went out, whither the men went, I know not. Pursue after them quickly, for you'll overtake them.

Quick, quick, they just laughed. You might be able to catch them. Oh, okay, okay, and off they go. Soon as they're gone, she goes up to the roof, before the two spies can even think about sleeping, and she goes, I got to talk to you. We've taken care of them. I want to talk religion now. I want to talk about God. John and Hank pause for a moment here. We get verses 9 through 13. That is Rehab's voice. We don't get a woman's voice. It's her testimony. And notice the words, how she starts out.

She said, I know. This is the Hebrew word yada. This is knowledge that's beyond just cognitive knowledge. Like, this is deeper. I know. This is Soraya in the Book of Mormon after her sons come back and she says now to Lehi, now I know of a surety. I know. Then she calls the Lord by his name. Notice Lord is in capitals. I know that Jehovah hath given you the land. Notice what tense it's in. Hath given you. They haven't even come over the Jordan River, and what is she saying? In present tense.

This is the Hebrew tense that's sometimes called the prophetic perfect. It allows you to say things in the present tense that haven't happened yet. To me, it's the pure definition of faith. You know so well that something is going to happen that is as if it's already occurred, and you act today as if that has already happened. That's what Rehab is saying. I know of assurity, you can almost say, that Jehovah has given you the land, and that your terror has fallen upon us and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.

for we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea. How did they hear that? When you came out of Egypt and ye went to the two kings of the Amorites on the other side of Jordan, Cian and Og whom ye utterly destroyed, we heard that. And as soon as we heard those things, our hearts did melt. Neither did there remain any more courage in any man because of you. For the Lord Jehovah, your God, He is. He is God in heaven above and in earth beneath.

None of these other God. No, he alone. I've got a footnote there to Exodus 15, the Song of the Sea. Moses and Miriam both sing after the children of Israel of cross through the Red Sea. In fact, maybe I had to go back there. Exodus 15. Women were typically the ones that sang, that did the music. It's in this context that Miriam is called a prophetess. Look at in this song, verse 14 and 15, they would be singing this. The people shall hear and be afraid.

Sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina or the Philistines. Then the Dukes of Edom, or the leaders, the chiefs of Edom shall be amazed and the mighty men. men of Moab, trembling, shall take hold. That's Sihon and Og. That's the very things that Rehab is talking about. And all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away. Fear and dread shall fall upon them. By the greatness of thine arm, they shall be as still as a stone. They're singing this prophetically before it happens. This song would have probably been sung by the Israelites and passed around. You wonder, did Rahab and others in Jericho and other areas hear this song? Let me give you another one. We've got to go to the Book of Mormon. First Nephi, Chapter 17. I'm reading between the lines, but I think there might be something here. First 32,

after they had crossed the River Jordan, and we're going to get there with Chapter 3, they're going to cross the River Jordan. He did make them mighty unto the driving out of the children of the land, even unto the scattering of them to destruction. There's the conquest of Canaan. Nephi asks, And now do you suppose that the children of this land, could we say the Canaanites,

who were in the land of promise, who were driven out by our fathers, the Israelites, do you suppose that they were righteous? Behold, I say unto you, nay. Do you suppose that our fathers would have been more choice than they if they had been righteous? I say unto you, nay. What is this suggesting? What makes the Lord with the Israelites right here?

Because they are following him, because they're obedient to him. But if they hadn't been, would they have been able to drive out the Canaanites? He say no. Now verse 35, behold, the Lord esteemeth all flesh in one. He that is righteous is favored of God. But behold, this people, this Canaanite people, had rejected every word of God and they were ripe in iniquity. What do you have to do before you reject the word of God? You have to hear it.

You have to hear it. Sometime before this, they had heard the word of God. We don't have the details. But I would suggest Rehab had heard testimony, not only heard it, but felt it deep inside of her. And now she knew, we've heard about your God. And now I know he is the only God. I think that Book of Mormon passage is a helpful commentary on what's going on there. You just changed my Book of Mormon.

That's so cool. Never saw that. What a great reference. This people, the Canaanites, had rejected everywhere. Yeah. That's going to help us when we get into all this destruction and violence. And it's hard. It's really hard. But the Lord doesn't do that unless he gives them first a chance. He's always done that, right? He always gives a chance to hear. Yeah, I'm looking at the footnote.

Footnote 35D, thank you, Robert J. Matthews for working on the footnotes, says Joshua 2.24. It sends you back to the story with Rehab, but Rehab's story doesn't send you there, so you can do it both ways, yes. What a beautiful connection across Scripture. John, how many times does it happen on this show that we, oh wow, I've never seen that. Camille, can I go back to something you said earlier, that every English translation of the Bible lists Rehab as a prostitute, or, a harlot. There is none that say innkeeper. Like you said, somewhere along the way, someone said, I don't like that. I'm going to, I got a softening. I'm going to do my own Sunday school translation, right? We even get it hushed tones. There was Rahab, and she was a bit of impasse, and she was super faithful. What is it? Why do we do this? I think I do it too. Why? Remember this? In the Savior's own words,

what he said to the Jewish leaders, the harlots and the publicans will get to heaven before you do. Before you, yeah. Do we order sins or order lifestyles as far as who's more righteous and who's less righteous? I love that from 1st John. I'll do sin and come short of the glory of God. We all need the atonement. I just love the fact that it's preserved here in scripture. You know that in Hebrews, chapter, chapter 11, the great roll call of the faithful, you get Abel, Moses, and Noah, Abraham, and Isaac, the Hall of Fame, and then Rahab the Harlot comes through there. You just go, yes, as one of the great examples of faith, and it's Rehab the Harlot. Then James, as he's talking about faith without works is dead, and you've got to have not only faith, but you've got to have works with it. He gives two examples, Abraham in chapter two of James and Rahab the Harlot. It's almost to remind us there is nothing outside the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ. We want to come to him and society and maybe squeaky clean interpretations would say, oh, but not that. I think you've gone too far.

No. To add to that, what else do we know about Rahab? She's in Matthew chapter 1, verse 5. That's the one place she's not called the harlot. She's listed as one of four women before Mary as ancestresses of Jesus Christ. Of all the people, all that could be listed and the women that could be listed. Matthew made sure Rehab was there. Rahab has a heart that is touched in ways that some of these others that maybe were seen as the, real righteous in their society did not. Publicans and harlots make it there before you do.

I think when we try to alter what the text actually says, we seem like those people in Jesus' day who said, why are you eating with sinners? Why are you having meals with them? She can be touched by the spirit and has been. And has the courage and the faith to not only speak up, but put her life and her family's life on the line because of that. She's hidden these spies and she's going to help them get out.

Our friends Kelly Ogden and Andrew Skinner, who we've had on the podcast, I was looking at their commentary today, the verse by verse, and I loved what they said here. The Hebrew word used of Rehab is Zona, which in every biblical case means harlot, adulterous, or prostitutes. 2. Rather than trying to change the reality of Rehab's past, we should allow for the reality of repentance and reformation. This was an individual who found the covenant, committed her life to it, and was blessed. This story is one of the great, compelling reasons to rejoice in the opportunity to change. Heavenly Father's plan of second chances. Versus 8 through 11, give us Rahab's testimony. Yeah. I love it. They didn't back up. No, that's what it means.

No, it is. I love the Old Testament. We can see the whole breadth of humanity in these pages. The fact that no one is without the need of the Atonement of Christ. There is no one so good or so obedient or so kind that they don't need Christ. Chapter 2, we're still there. Verse 12, Now therefore I pray you, swear unto me by the Lord. Now that language right there, if we read it slowly enough and pausing and thinking as we're reading, it's covenant language. You can hear it, can't you? We're swearing by the Lord is in caps. Since I have shown you kindness that you will also show kindness to my father's house and give me some token of promise. This word translated kindness is one of those absolutely remarkable Hebrew words that comes up often, real often, translated sometimes loving kindness, sometimes as mercy. It's Hecadzad. It is covenant language. It is more than just love. It's like a permanence in that love, a steadfastness in my promise to you. It's God's promise to us and what we promise him that is so much deeper than a lot of times what we say to each other. So she's asking for that kind of covenant from these spies.

Yep, I'm going to help you. I know, but you've got to promise me that when you're taking over this city, you will save me and my family. She's putting her family there right front and center and save them, verse 13, that you will save alive, my father, my mother, my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have and deliver our lives from death. It almost suggests maybe another generation, perhaps all that they have, I don't know.

Then the man answer in the same Chesed language. And the man answered her, our life for yours. This is covenant language. If you won't tell anybody that we were here, if you don't divulge our presence, and it shall be when the Lord hath given us the land that we will deal kindly, we'll give you chesed, like you have given to us, and truly with thee. That covenant language, we've got to make sure we've seen that. They agree. They agree to this, enter in this covenant with each other, and then she lets them down by a core, It's translated cord. In Hebrew, that comes from the root verb to sew. It makes you think of, in many ways, the flax up on her roof. In way, it does me. And I'm thinking, you know very well, this cannot just be a thin thread or something, one bit, but you can make rope out of flax. I think she could have easily had made that cord herself. And she puts it through the window. But look in verse 18. The book.

word is changed now the way they say it. Behold, they say, when we come into the land, thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread in the window. Now, it's a line of scarlet thread. It's scarlet now, and it's bound. That line of thread, the Hebrew word is also translated hope. You put out this scarlet hope. and bind it. Look at those words. Isn't that interesting? The binding, the scarlet, and the hope.

And end of verse 9, blood. You've done this, I'm sure, too. In Hebrew, you cut covenants. There's always blood with covenants. This imagery, to me, speaks of the Savior. Of him. Everything that they're doing, this covenant they've made, it's really putting their faith in Jehovah, that it's through Him that we will be saved.

You see it again down here in verse 21, and she bound the scarlet line in the window. It's there, and it's a beautiful symbol of almost like painting the lentils with the blood of the lamb for Passover. That's what I thought of. It sounds like Passover, a mark in the window that's really, Red. That's scarlet. Then she tells them, go hide up here in the hills for a while until things cool down. They do. Then they finally come back and they see Joshua. And what do they say to Joshua? Now, notice the verbiage. How much do they believe this harlot, Rehab? Verse 24. And they said to Joshua, truly the Lord hath delivered into our hands all the land. What tense is that? It's in the present tense. It's happening. They use the same terminology.

It's that prophetic perfect, for even all the inhabitants of the country do faint because of this. We see him talking to Rehab, but I think they might have sensed the fear throughout Jericho from more than Rehab. Chapter 3, Joshua tells them, get ready. I'll skip down to verse 3. When you see the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord your God, I just love the whole name of the Ark. Isn't that beautiful? When you see the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord your God and the priests, the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place and go after it. In other words, you see the priest carrying this Ark of the Covenant of the Lord our God. That's your time to get up and go. Notice in verse 4, he wants space between the priests and the Ark of the Covenant.

and them. Two thousand cubits. I mean, we're talking, that's a considerable distance. If you think a cubit is like 18 inches, what would be the purpose of being so far behind the arc as it sets out before them? It's an interesting thing. He's asking them to leave space, and there's not an explanation. That's a half mile. Like a thousand yards or something, I think someone once estimated. It's a good distance. What then happened, verse five, and here's the famous verse that you quoted Hank at the beginning, Joshua says to them, sanctify yourselves, for tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you. I love that verse. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, April 2016.

If you recall it, he spoke last in general conference and was talking about how high we are with conference and then the next day is just here we go. The reality strikes. The name of his talk was, tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you. But he said this, if gospel standards seem high and the personal improvement needed in the days ahead seems out of reach, remember Joshua's encouragement to his people when they faced a daunting future. Sanctify yourselves. for tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you. When things just seem impossible, I can't do it. The days ahead seem impossible.

Think about this. Sanctify yourself. I hear President Nelson say, expect miracles. I wonder how they sanctify themselves. I wonder what that preparation the night before was like. and what we can do to prepare better. It's helpful to recognize from verse 15 in here, the very end of verse 15,

the Jordan o'er overflow with all his banks at the time of harvest. This probably is in the springtime of the year when flooding was likely. That would even make this a little more interesting and daunting as they think about going across. We don't see that today with the Jordan with all the water that's taken out, but apparently there was some serious flooding

in the springtime that is referred to here. Part of this story that is so remarkable then is you get the priests taking that arc of the covenant of the Lord down to the water, and we read verse 15, As they that bear the ark were coming to Jordan, the feet of the priests that bear the ark were dipped in the brim of the water. He says, sanctify yourself, I'm going to do wonderful things, and they're ready to go through.

But man, their feet are wet on the side of the river, and the river is still flowing. That is an important point, and I think that's part of what it means to truly have faith. Elder Bednar gave a talk where he made reference to this and tied it with the Joseph Smith translation of Hebrews 11 verse 1 definition of faith. I love that definition. It isn't just the substance of things hoped for, but Joseph Smith translation,

the assurance of things hoped for, even when evidence is not seen. We are so sure that we act today as though it has already been fulfilled. That's what these priests with the ark are doing. They come and they don't wait till the water backs up. The water's not backing it. They have to get their feet in and how often is that for us in doing something that the Lord has asked us to do? It seems daunting. But he says, get your feet wet. Trust me. Prove me and see if I don't do what I tell you. This is Elder Bednar. I love this. This was not General Conference. It was an article he wrote for the Ensign September 2007 called

Seek Learning by Faith. He said this. The faith of the Israelites was manifested in the fact that they walked into the water before it parted. They walked into the River Jordan with a future-facing assurance of things hoped for. As the Israelites moved forward, the water parted, and as they crossed over on dry land, they looked back and beheld the evidence of things not seen. You might say that they hadn't seen beforehand. In this episode, faith as assurance led to action and then produce the evidence of things not seen that were true. Using this very story as a precise example of what Hebrews 111 is saying. And then it's after they step into it, happens? The water backs up like a heap, it said. Verse 17, the priests that bear the Ark of the

covenant of the Lord stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground until all the people had passed clean over into Jordan. They come in, and they stop right, in the middle of Jordan, and the children of Israel pass over while they stay there. But it's not finished. Chapter 4 picks up right where we left off. The people passing clean, don't you love that? Clean passed over. Or the footnotes has completely passed over. That idea that their feet had to get wet before the water to demonstrate their faith, there's, to me, a New Testament story where the lepers call out to Jesus. They say, have mercy on us. Jesus says to them, he gives them instructions of what they should do if they were already healed. Go show yourselves to the priest. And I've always thought they could have stood there and said, we can't go show ourselves to the priest.

We're not healed yet. I think you've got the order wrong. Yeah, you got the order wrong. But it says, as they went, they were cleansed. It doesn't say it, and as they just stood there, they were cleansed. But they started making tracks, and then they were. cleansed. I think we are asked to do that very frequently in our lives. We don't have the evidence before we start. And I think whenever you come to that crossroads or that situation, you really do

go through that. Do I really trust the Lord? Like paying tithing when you can't pay your bills or something. Yes. You make that decision. It's a choice. And you say, okay, I'll go forward. Sometimes it's not the first step and sometimes it's not the second step. Sometimes it's a few more steps and you get up to your maybe neck in water. You're like, um. But you go, I trust. Our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, loves to quote this story to me.

When I say, Shannon, I'm a little nervous about this. She says, well, we got to get her feet wet. We got to move forward. That's right. So you get the ark with the priests are still in the middle of the dry Jordan Riverbed. Children of Israel have passed completely over. Joshua sends back 12 men, one from each tribe. I think this is helpful and important.

Representative of all the children of Israel. There's someone there represents me and my tribe. And he sends them back to get each one a story. stone from that dry riverbed, from where the water is going to come back crashing over. But evidence that they've crossed over, they take out a stone that was just previously covered by water. And they bring it back and make a monument. I think this is an important assignment that Joshua gives to them. He tells the explanation why. everyone now comes out and the water is going to come crashing back down the river. In verses 6 and 7,

it comes up again, chapter 4 verses 21 through 24. And because that's a little bit longer and explains a little bit more, can I read that one? First 21, he said, when your children shall ask their fathers in time to come saying, what mean these stones? Then you shall let your children know, saying Israel came over this Jordan on dry land. For the Lord your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until you were passed over as the Lord your God did to the Red Sea, which he dried up from before us until we were gone over. That all the people of the earth might know that the hand of the Lord that is mighty.

You will know that the hand of the Lord is mighty. and tell your children this. I just think that is such an important piece because how quickly we forget. There's something about the fact that all 12 tribes have participated in building that monument, that each of the tribes is represented, that it's like how many witnesses coming together to say, this really happened. These stones were on dry ground under where the Jordan River flows. I think of the one promise or purpose of the Book of Mormon that Moronai wrote on the title page, that it was to remind them what great things God has done for our fathers. I mean, I love history. Can you tell that? There's such value in knowing what has happened before. One other little piece on this with the

memorial that I think is really interesting. Sometime along the way, there was a community named Beth Abra along that river. Bethabra in Hebrew means literally House of the Fording. We might more easily call it the place of the crossing. I can't imagine any other crossing but this one that would warrant naming a community that. We know, especially from restored gospel scripture in the Book of Mormon and also Joseph Smith translation of Matthew that Jesus Christ was baptized in the River Jordan next to the community called Bethapra, the place of the 40. Remember what great things you tell your children about the Lord and that they will feel

him and how mighty. It's a beautiful story to remember when things are going to get tough and they might be scratching their head saying, now why are we here? Why did we leave Egypt or whatever the case may be? Here's a memorial. We have memorials in our life today and ways to remember. And this reinforces to me why and that we need to take that seriously and go through the process often of remembering. And it's something you can go to, you can touch it, you can see it. And I love that you pointed out that this is where John the Baptist goes. Yeah. I think the Salt Lake Temple is part of that for me.

I'll go over to it and touch it and go, how did you do this? Hank, I remember when they were excavating right after 2020 to strengthen the foundation, seeing pictures in the newspaper that they were finding underneath the brick writing numbers or whatever of these guys in the 1800s. That had originally been the ones that laid those stones. Calling them out of little Cottonwood Canyon by Oxcart and finally by Raya later on. but the work involved. To see the history is they uncovered that and think, well, somebody else was here.

That's cool. And how many years that took to build and they just kept working, faith that it would be completed? Yeah. We found the home of my Dutch ancestor where they lived in Zulah in the Netherlands. It's been remodeled, but the home is still there. I go back and see where they live,

lived and what they decided to do in those late 1860s to follow a prophet they had never heard or seen and cross over. And that home is in many ways a monument to me of what they gave up and sacrificed for something that they believed and that they wanted for their descendants that they felt like could not happen if they remained there at that time. Wow. You just sit there for a second and you think, there's something of reaching through the centuries in there. There's a connection.

Even this is the place, monument, I think. How did you do this? Her Ensign Peak, you walk up there. He's done wonders among us, hasn't he? Coming up in part two. None of them has married. If they haven't married, can I just tell you they're young? I would say they are very young.

And they have the moxie to come to Moses before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation and the men that are there in leaders saying, why should the name of our father be forgotten because he had no sons?