followHIM - JS-Matt 1: Matt 24-25; Mark 12-13; Luke 21 Part 2 • Dr. Avram Shannon • May 22 - May 28

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Dr. Avram Shannon continues to examine the Gathering of Israel, the building of Zion and preparing for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.00:00 Part II– Dr. Avram Shannon00:12 Literal and figurative Gathering of Israel01:45 Everyone will know when Jesus returns03:30 Road to Emmaus and expectations of the Messiah05:31 First and Second Coming of Jesus07:49 Like the days of Noah09:15 “No man knoweth.”10:46 Elder Ballard addresses when Jesus will return12:19 How we are to wait for Jesus’s return13:46 Ten virgins and ancient marriage feast 17:22 Elder Oaks teaches how to prepare for the Second Coming19:12 Prepare every day for Jesus’s return24:57 The Parable of the Talents31:29 President Ballard teaches about judgment34:55 Jesus Christ’s inexhaustible grace37:11 The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats39:28 How do we take care of one another?41:45 We must build Zion44:40 Hank and Dr. Shannon discuss having twins49:27  Dr. Shannon shares personal stories of accepting service53:53 President Monson exhorts us to be kind, loving, and charitable57:36  Jesus is coming back and we should create the world for Him1:02:52 End of Part II–Dr. Avram ShannonPlease rate and review the podcast.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to part two, Dr. Avram Shannon, Joseph Smith, Matthew chapter one, Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 12 and 13, and Luke 21. I've said before, I'll say again, this idea that the gathering of Israel and the cause of Zion are basically the same thing, where we all come together to be God's covenant people. Should we read it literally? probably figuratively yeah probably okay i mean part of it do we need to look for a specific jesus christ will only come after a lunar and solar eclipse i'd be careful about that yeah part of it is lunar and solar eclipse where they're right yeah yeah right in jerusalem in missouri in salt lake in bolivia but i would say jesus point is this is part of the disruption talked about earlier things are going to be in the sky things

are going to be disrupted and by the way he's actually alluding to joel here joel prophesies also about the sun being darkened and the moon being turned to blood. And of course, make a big deal about that too. But what does a lunar eclipse look like? Yeah. Looks like a red moon. The moon being turned to blood is just a lunar eclipse there in Joel as well. And like with here in Matthew, I think, again, I could be wrong.

Any of these things where I'm given here, I reserve the right to be totally wrong. And if Jesus Christ comes immediately after a solar eclipse and lunar eclipse, I'll be like, I was right. I guess it was more than I thought I was. Yeah, you know, exactly. But reserve it 100% the right to be wrong about that. But as I read it, the point is, is that there's going to be disruption in the sky. Okay. Changes. Changes. Changes. And that's how I read it.

And then it'd be the sign of man in heaven. Joseph Smith, of course, taught that that was actually Jesus appearing and nobody recognizing him. Like most of Joseph Smith, whenever Joseph Smith undertook to answer a question, he usually made it more complex than the question he was actually answering the first time. Joseph answers a question and you're like, can you explain that now? Because this is not. But part of his point with this, and again, this is the whole thing about back in 24 and 25, 26, right? This idea of, you know, he's in secret chambers in the desert.

Don't believe it. He's like, look, guys. When it happens, you're going to know. Because when it happens, everybody's going to know because when it happens everybody's gonna know okay all the tribes of the earth shall mourn they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory when it happens this is it there's not going to be any oh what happened here how easy it's like it's going to come clouds of glory it's it. Sending angels with the sound of a trumpet and the gathering again happens. Verse 31, gathering together the elect from the four winds from one

end of heaven to the other. So that's really a key thing. He says, when you know, you're going to know. And then in many ways, the balance of this, the end of Matthew 24 into Matthew 25, is Jesus' discussion on how you wait. Because one of the really interesting things, we alluded to this a little bit earlier, one of the interesting things about this passage is how early Jesus prophesies about the second coming. Like, he's not even dead yet. We haven't even finished the first coming and we're already talking about the second coming. And now there are a couple of key reasons for this, I think. One is in terms of messianic expectations, Jesus is not a particularly successful Messiah.

It's not like they're dumb readers of scripture. Scripture says the Messiah is going to come. I mean, Messiah is a word that just means king. The scripture says the king's going to come and he's going to rescue us. As part of Luke 24, which is not part of this discourse, it's between the crucifixion and the resurrection. It's disciples on the road to Emmaus. And I find it very, very compelling.

So the disciples meet him. Jesus says, what are you guys so sad about? Luke 24, 18. And they say, where are you from? You never heard these things? And he's like, what are you guys talking about? Yeah. He acts totally clueless. What things? Yeah. What things? And this is key. He says, and they said, concerning Jesus of Nazareth, this is verse 19, which is a prophet, indeed and word before the God and all the people. Now the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, crucified him. This is verse 21. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel.

And besides all this is the third day since these things are done. And he talks about the empty tomb. Disciples here think the crucifixion was a failure. Yeah, that he's not the Messiah. We presumed that he was going to be the Messiah. He was going to save us and now he's dead. And of course, Jesus then says, why are you guys so dumb?

And explains that the Messiah had to die. But the point is, is that even to Jesus' immediate disciples, it was not immediately and obviously clear what he meant by messiah you know we talk about this you know why are jewish friends don't to this day don't think jesus was the messiah is because he didn't do everything scripture says he's going to do the messiah is supposed to do. And of course, our response to that is, well, he's gonna. Some of those Old Testament passages, we would say, are concerning his second coming.

That's right. So because of that, the second coming is necessary to our understanding of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. It is a necessary part of what it means to be a Christian and to accept Jesus as the Messiah, because that's how he fulfills all the prophecies because he did not fulfill them all in mortality. In his first coming. In his first coming. But he's going to in his second coming. So in some ways, part of what Jesus is doing

is he is preparing his disciples and on some levels us by saying, look, I know it's gonna be hard. Again, this is days before the crucifixion here. We know from Luke that it's really hard for the disciples. It's not like, oh, he's crucified. This is what we're all waiting for. They're like, what happened? And Jesus, in some ways, is probably the prompt to be able to say, look, I told you about this already. It's pretty clear. I'm going to come back. Because a lot of we see actually all throughout the latter half of the gospels

is Jesus preparing them and saying, look, things are going to get harder before they get easier. I often describe the whole thing, especially in Luke and other gospels, it's all a push towards consecration, towards if you're not dedicated to this, you're not going to be able to keep with me. And I think it's sort of compelling as you think about how this plays out. You read

the feeding the 5,000. Jesus feeds 5,000 people, not including women and children. And then you turn to Acts and there are about 300 people meeting after the crucifixion and the resurrection. And in some ways that number in Acts gets you a real sense of who stuck with Jesus after. It's not 5,000 people, it's 300 people. Good point. As we read it, it seems that some of the women understood what was coming. She did it for my burial. They kind of knew it and some didn't. That's always interesting to me that some had it figured out. Or certainly had to figure it out more. Part of it, even the disciples, even the apostles, it's pretty clear. Thomas is there and he's like, wait, what? Jesus came back to life? As we read our passages here in terms of this, this is in many ways, Jesus saying,

you've got to be ready for it. And so here's some tools for helping you to wait. Because the other part of this is he's not going to tell us when it's going to be. Yeah, he talks about a couple other things at the end of Matthew 24 is he says, it's like the days of Noah. People were eating and drinking and had no thought for a flood that's coming. Noah was getting prepared, but nobody else was. And it's a key thing because what it means is, is that life will go on right up to the second coming. And again, sometimes we kind of view it as this almost apocalypse and then Jesus comes and whatever. And he says, look, life's just going to keep going. Yeah. It's going to be every day. They're eating and drinking,

marrying and given in marriage. And then the day happened that Noah entered the ark. And part of it with that is this idea for you and I, one, to not just be caught in the thick of thin things, to just be eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage. But also to recognize this is why it's part of the point of why it's so key for us to be watching. That there's not going to be some kind of immediate event where you can say, oh yes, now we know now it's time to get ready. I'm kind of hoping for a Samuel the Lamanite in five years comes the sun. Get out your calendar and put that in your Google calendar. Yeah. Okay. Five years.

I thought he was telling us, he's like, there's not going to be, there's not going to be a Samuel the Lamanite you're not gonna get total disruption of society and part of it is humans are incredibly resilient wars rumors of wars all these terrible things in there the world ended for jews in the first century in some way i mean you know the earthquake in turkey and syria the world ended. Let's keep going. Some of these are preparation events for when it's going to end. Matthew 24, 36 is really, really important. But of that day and that and our knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.

And Mark is even more explicit. And this is Mark 13, 32. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels that would turn heaven, neither the son, but the father. Jesus tells the disciples, he's like, even I don't know when I'm coming back. And now I presume now that he has all the father half, he knows everything the father knows. I presume he knows now, but what he's saying, he's like like here in mortality the father hasn't told me when i'm coming back i have a friend brother marsh who teaches i think personal finance at byu and he strange question in finance class but he

quizzes his students if you could ask the savior anything you wanted to what would you ask him most of them ask when is the second coming and you read these verses that would you ask him? And most of them asked, when is the second coming? And if you read these verses, that would be a real waste of a question because you already know this verse, but I don't know. The father knows. Joseph Smith says, when are you coming? Jesus says, if you live to be 85, then I'll come. You'll see me. Joseph is like, so did he mean I'm going to die? So M. Russell Ballard, President Ballard, gave this great bio-devotional back in 1996 about the second coming. And he has, I think, a really compelling point to make about who knows and the knowledge of the second coming. In this devotional, he says, so can we use various scientific data he's been talking about to extract that the second coming is likely to occur during the next few years, the next decade, the next century? Not really. I am called as one of the apostles to be a special witness

of Jesus Christ in these exciting, trying times. And I do not know when he is going to come again. As far as I know, none of my brethren in the Council of the Twelve or even the First Presidency know. And I would humbly suggest to you that if we do not know, then nobody knows. No matter how compelling their arguments

or how reasonable their calculations. And then he quotes Matthew 24, 36 we were just talking about and he says, I believe when the Lord says no man knows, it really means no man knows. You should be extremely wary of anyone who claims to be an exception to that divine decree. I like to tell my students as we talk about this, that don't

worry about the wrong things. Don't worry about when Christ will come. Just come to Christ right now. Just be on the covenant path. Where the eagles are gathered, be there. And then when he comes, it'll be okay because you'll be in the right place. He even says that. Blessed is the servant, verse 46, whom when his Lord comes, finds him so doing. And really the whole balance of Matthew 24 and 25 is precisely that. It's precisely about here's how we wait. Back to this question of why prophesy it so soon, so early in human history, because as I see it, one of the distinctive things about being a Christian is that we wait for Jesus. Jesus wants us on the edge of our seats.

Nicely put. That's interesting. Jesus wants us on the edge of our seats all the time, every day. Every point of it. He talks about the servants. He talks about the thief. The thief. Yeah, that's an interesting point. If you know your house is going to be robbed at four o'clock in the morning, what do you do at four o'clock in the morning? You're going to have police there. You're going to have a whatever for it.

You're going to be all ready for it. Yeah. But the point is you don't know. You don't know. So what you do, you sit by that window. You stand in holy places and be not moved. You know, you're being robbed. You don't know when he's coming, but you know, it's coming.

So you're going to sit there and you're going to wait. You're going to have your alarm system put in. You don't know when he's coming, but you know it's coming. So you're going to sit there and you're going to wait. You're going to have your alarm system put in. You're going to do a bunch to prepare because you know it's coming. Everything you can

because you know it's coming. Everything you can to have that expectation. And the same thing, the servant, he's like, you don't know when your boss is coming back. And because you know

when your boss is coming back, you just work hard in the meantime. And when he comes, he'll find you working hard. I want to make very clear, 25 is a single piece of 24. Obliterate the chapter division, but in your heads, totally blow that chapter division. He's just still talking about the second coming.

So all of these parables are articulating this notion of how do I wait? What does it look like? I want to talk through those. So you've got the first one there, and this is what, 25, one through 13. You've got the 10 virgins. And then of course, this is the marriage.

And people tell you this is all about ancient marriage feasts and things like that. What they never tell you is actually about 70% of our information about that comes from this parable. So we need to be careful a little bit in terms of this is what all ancient marriages were like, because this is a huge portion of our evidence for it. So, you know, you've got the wise virgins. And one thing that President Oaks points out is that this is all about members of the church. They've all been

invited to the wedding feast. This isn't about non-members versus whatever. And the point of it, as I read it, is not that we should be hoarders. It's not that we should buy all the toilet paper and not share it with anybody. It's about those things that can't be shared. There are some things in our preparation that can't be shared. There's plenty of preparation that we can be shared, right? Remember, according to Doctrine and Covenants, in the second coming, before Jesus Christ can come back, we've got to build Zion, which means that we've got to have everything shared already anyway. The law of consecration. Law of consecration, exactly. This is not about, I have more toilet paper than you, ha, ha, ha, because you didn't prepare.

I felt keenly a little bit of that during some of the pandemic issues where we had those shortage of toilet paper. I did come away from the pandemic saying, ha, I should have more food storage than I have. Again, that wasn't eschatology in that sense. That was just pragmatic. But the point of this parable is, as I read it, there are things like testimony. There are things like preparation, spiritual preparation. There are things that you can't rely on somebody else to have. When the day comes and it's a problem that you can't rely on somebody else to have. When the day comes and it's a problem, I can't rely on Hank Smith's testimony as great as it is. Got to have your own.

I can't. I've got to have my own. And so it's not that the wise versions are mean. The purpose of the parable is like, we can't share it. You've got to have this for yourself. You've got to do this for yourself you've got to do this for yourself and be ready for the wedding exactly you can't when it comes say oh i'll get it then because again remember the bridegroom delays his coming he's late and they expect him you can't say and there's this idea of god when you don't live on the edge of our seats you can't say, this is the idea of God, we just want to live on the edge of our seats. You can never say, I'll do it later. Part of the point of this is there is no later. Yeah. Do it now. Act now.

Do it now. It's immediate. Partially because, and this is kind of what God told Joseph Smith there in Doctrine and Governance, like, look, you live, you die. You're going to see me at some point anyway. And that's true for each of us. In many ways, our lives should be a constant preparation for Jesus Christ's second coming. Because he's going to come for the whole world and fix everything. It's going to be beautiful. But in the meantime, he can come in our lives. He can come and he can visit us. We can be with him.

We can build it and do it right now. You might meet the Lord. That's one of Elder Oaks' point in his talk is you might meet him tomorrow because something might happen. And you've always got to be ready. And so that's part of the point too, is ready as much and early as possible. Elder Dallin H. Oaks, in his talk, is it Preparation for the Second Coming, I think it's called, in April 2004 General Conference? He asked this question. He says, what if the day of his coming were tomorrow? If we knew that we would meet the Lord tomorrow through his unexpected coming or through our premature death, what would we do today? What confessions would we make? What practices would we discontinue? What accounts would we settle? What forgivenesses

would we extend? What testimonies would we bear? If we knew the Lord was coming tomorrow, we would be acting totally different today. He said, and then this piercing question, I love it. If we would do those things, then why not now? And I really think part of the purpose of this, all of that discourse is Jesus Christ is saying now I'm coming tomorrow. Again, I always ask my students, well, when is Jesus coming back? They've already like Dr. Shatner, you've already said we can't do it. I'm like, would you be comfortable saying Jesus Christ is coming back soon? Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I said, how long has Jesus been coming back soon?

For 2,000 years, it's been soon. And it's still soon. That's the way he wants it, right? That's the way exactly. He wants us to be, as I said, on the edge of our seats. He wants us to be constantly prepared and thinking about other things besides the man and the creature. That's why I love that verse. Behold, it is called today until the coming of the son of man. You'll live your life that way. Like. Yeah, exactly. It's really soon. Every single day. Exactly. Because as Elder Oaks points to us,

it could be he comes in the flesh. It could just be that we die. One of the things I found in my life is we're basically a hands-breadth between life and death at almost all times, right? I mean, you never know what's going to happen. Yeah. I remember President Monson always saying something like, when the day of decision arrives, the time for preparation has passed. Exactly. This parable is about you've got to be ready and you've got to be ready yourself. You can't rely on somebody else being ready spiritually for when these things come. There's a couple of verses, like there's some great phrases in this.

Oh, Jesus Christ is incredibly quotable. Yeah. Give us of your oil for our lamps are gone out. And we could talk about testimony. My testimony is running out on me. What can I do to make sure that it's not running out? And then the wise answer, go get for yourselves. That reminds me of Joseph Smith saying, I have learned for myself. Good point. From day one, the great privilege

of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints is you can learn for yourself. You don't need my testimony. For one thing, let's be honest here. I do my best to do what I can, but I'm not always a great person. If my children rely on me, I'm going to fail them. They have to know for themselves. Yeah. I cannot give them what they need eternally. And so that's why it's so key for us to think through this and to think, but also this idea, the testimony idea of, and this is just sort of a homily on this point here, but I think it's a good one. Don't wait until your oil's running out to try and rebuild your testimony.

Don't wait until you're at the very end to say, now it's time for me to go try and build back up this fire. It's much easier while it's still burning than to try and do it again. Some sobering verses in the Book of Mormon about you've procrastinated the day of your repentance until it's everlastingly too late. There actually is going to come a time when it's too late. When the door's shut and Jesus says, I don't know who you are. And actually, of course, there's a JST there that's, you don't know me. He's like, I don't know you, but really, you didn't know me. Many are called and's like, I don't know you, but really you didn't know me. Many are called and few are chosen. And why

are they not chosen? Because they forget. In just simple terms, if you love someone, you show up at their wedding. And you're ready for it, right? You're like, I ran out of gas. I was busy running errands. Exactly. And it's going to be a party. You're missing

out on the cool stuff at this point. Right. Didn't President Nelson say that? Missing out on the celestial kingdom is the ultimate FOMO. Yeah, it really is. And Jesus uses in the gospels all the time, this party imagery, the wedding feast. It's got to be a party, guys. It's the day of the Lord, the feast of fat things, Doctrine and Covenants. It's going to be awesome. And we're not going to want to miss out on it just because we forgot a couple of, you know, i.e. I think it's really cool, the desire to want to come to the wedding. And we've received multiple invitations.

Yes, so many. So many. I keep asking you. I knocked on your door and hand-delivered it to you. Elder Bednar said, the central recurring theme of the Book of Mormon is the invitation to come unto Christ. We didn't just get one invitation in the mail that got put under the other mail. We've been invited over and over and over. I like what you said, Hank. I put that in my scriptures.

If you love somebody, you show up at their wedding. That's good. Yeah, that's great. Well, I mean, if your best friend called you the next day and said, oh, I meant to, couldn't make it. Sorry. That's one of the parables, right? That's the parable of the wedding feast where they actually, I bought a new ox. You know, I'm too busy with it. And you've got to be ready for it.

Okay, so each of these parables teaches something a little bit different. The parable of the thief in the night, you've got to be waiting. You've got to be on the edge of your seats. You know what's coming. You know when you've got to be waiting for it. The parable of the 10 virgins is, look, you've got to be ready beforehand. You can't decide after the fact it's time to get ready. And there are some things there that you have to do yourself. You can't do it for others. To add to the parable of the 10 virgins, you have Doctrine and Covenants 45 verses 56 and 57 that have a little addendum to the parable, which is just wonderful. At that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled, which I spake concerning the 10 virgins. For they that are wise and have received the truth

and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide and have not been deceived. Going back to what we talked about earlier about being deceived. The Savior's warning, don't be deceived, don't be deceived. Verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day. Hank, I've been marking all of the section 45 references in my footnotes because that's very much kind of a second coming revelation in the Doctrine and Covenants. It would not be a mistake to call Doctrine and Covenants 45 a modern day revelatory sequel. He works through the parable of the fig tree. It's very much in this dispensation, talking about the generation of the Jews. He talks about in verse 21,

the desolation. Verse 19, talks about the thief in the night. Doctrine 45 is revelatory commentary of this dispensation on the Olivet Discourse. So you should be reading them together. God intends us to read them together.

Absolutely. I love that they that are wise have received the truth. I don't think that means just that you heard about it, but you received it. You, speaking of weddings, you receive guests at a wedding. It's a wedding reception. I received the truth.

Like you receive seed into good ground. They've received the truth and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide. Just what we were talking about, because there's a lot of other guides out there who would like to guide you. But the one that we need, as you mentioned before, Alvaro, is we need to take the Holy Ghost for our guide. As always, that's going to be our short answer. Holy Ghost.

Let the Holy Spirit be your guide. All right, so let's continue on. So there's another parable right after this one. And so you remember, it's this guy. He's going to travel to a far country, it says. And he calls his servants, live them his goods. And talents, by the way, talents are sums of money. It's a weight.

It's actually astronomical sums of money. He's giving them huge amounts of money to work with. One talent is enough for a lifetime. Exactly. And by the way, our modern use of talents as being about gifts that God gave us comes from this parable. In the parable, he's talking about sums of money, but because it applies so nicely to God's gifts to us, it came into English as a word for God's gifts to us. Oh, cool. It's really fun the way the New Testament, this Bible in general, informs our speech in ways we sometimes don't think about.

Yeah. My talented co-host. I was right, John. You were right. So he's got these servants. They gave them according to their several abilities. He's like, I know that you're pretty good. So I'm going to give you five talents. You're clearly the best at this. He's like, I know that you're not as good as he is, but you're pretty good.

I can give you two talents. You? We'll do what we can with it. We're going to give you one talent. And then he leaves. And these various servants, verse 16, he that received the five talents went and traded the same and made them other five talents.

Received two, gained other two. And the one, he digged in the earth and buried it. He was afraid of losing it. And he comes back. After a long time, notice that. After a long time noticed that after a long time the lord of the servants coming and the one of five talents says look i did it i worked i doubled your talents 10 talents again it's an enormous sum the one two same thing right i doubled it four talents and the guy with one said well i was scared of you because you're kind of scary

right you know i knew you you required a lot exactly i knew you i knew you were an austere man reaping what you know you're a hard man and i was afraid so i just buried it and of course that makes him even more angry you could have at least put it in the bank i'd get interest all right at least you would have done that. And then of course he says, in some ways, everyone that has should be given him that hath not should be taken away. And of course we read this oftentimes in terms of reception.

If you receive, you get more. If you don't, then even what you've got is going to eventually go away. There are two things I think are the key about this. One of the actually feeds into this idea that I'm reading it as sort of gifts from God. One of the things I love, I love comparing

verse 21 and verse 23. So these are the rewards that God gives to... 10 talent guy and the 4. Yeah, and the 4 talent guy. Okay, 21. His Lord said to him well done thou

good and faithful servant that's been faithful over a few things i'll make the rule over many things enter down to the joy of thy lord and the other guy his order to him well done good and faithful servant that's been faithful over a few things i'll make the rule over many things, enter thou into the joy of thy Lord. The reward is identical, which suggests to me that it's not so much what you're given as is what you do with it. And I think this is really useful sometimes as we look out in this world, applying this in terms of this idea of talents

in terms of gifts from God. I tell my kids this all the time. They're like, dad, I'm like, life's not fair. You know, they're babies and crying. I'm like, you're right, kid, life's not fair. And then you die. I think it's incredibly, actually a nobling truth, this idea that life's not fair and then you die. But part of you have to get this perspective here. But I think that's the key part of this is an opening perspective there are people in this world who are better looking than me no there are people in this world who are smarter than me there are people in this world who are certainly more athletic than i am there are people in this world who are wealthier than i

am lord love them there are people in this world who are all four. The reward is identical. The point is what you do with what you're given. Even though the second servant ends up with less talents than the first one started with. The guy even started with.

He gets the same reward. I imagine them standing outside the Lord's office and the guy holding 10 is looking at the guy holding four and saying, you're in serious trouble. And the guy holding four, and he looks at the guy with 10 and thinking, I'm in so much trouble. Yet they get on the other side and they both get the same reward. And the guy with 10 is probably thinking, how'd you get here? And the guy with four is probably thinking, I don't know. But then they start talking and they say, how many did you start with? Oh, we had different starting places. That's an important concept. It's a huge, important concept because it's

really easy for us in celebrity culture and our own lives just around, right? You know, you look around and you're like, man, I just feel so insecure because they're doing this thing so much better than I am. And part of the message is God's like, stop looking around. Just do your thing. Stop comparing yourself to somebody else. The great message of the gospel of Jesus Christ is actually that it's not fair. It's not nearly so bad as all that. It reminds me of the loaves and fishes. Bring what you have and I'll multiply it. The laborers are right in the field. We get there get there and like, oh, I've been working all day long. Look what I'm going to get.

And God's like, just let me give you what I'm going to give you. Okay. Yeah. And I'll judge you based on your starting line. Yeah, exactly. Let me be merciful. And I think in terms of how this frames the second coming is this idea of how you use your time is what's going to matter here. Favorite verses in Doctrine and Covenants, Doctrine and Covenants 6, where Joseph and Oliver,

you know, they're brand new with this whole translation thing. And the Lord says, he's like, don't be afraid to do good. Sometimes, I know I do this, I get so set on what's the right thing to do. How can I do the most good in the world? How can I help the most people? What should I do for my job? What should I write in my particular job of writing and teaching, right? What kind of writings are the most good to the church? Parenting, right? What's the best way to parent? It can be really easy to get really paralyzed by that and not do anything. Analysis paralysis, we call it, right? As soon as I figure it out, then I'll do it, but I can't figure it out. So we it, but I can't figure it out. So we do nothing.

I can't figure it out. And we bury the talent. And God says, I don't care in some ways, just do something good. Don't be afraid to do good. If it's good, go ahead and do it. I have a great thought from President Ballard. We've been quoting him a lot today. This is one that I love to share.

He says, I feel that judgment for sin is not always as cut and dried as some of us seem to think. He says, I feel that the Lord recognizes differences in intent and circumstances. When he does judge us, I feel he will take all things into consideration. Our genetic and chemical makeup, our mental state, our intellectual capacity, the teachings we have received, the traditions of our fathers, our health, and so forth. There's only one person who can know all that, your genetic and chemical makeup, your mental state, the teachings you've received.

Take all that into consideration. I love that you pointed out that the guy with four doesn't even get to where the other guy started with five, and yet they get the exact same reward. You're reminding me of, think way back a couple of years ago when we were doing Doctrine and Covenants, and there's a phrase in section 46, I think verse 15, where it says that the Lord suiting his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. Conditions in 2023, different than conditions in 1975, whatever. And we can trust him. And I'm so glad.

And every person in every parable in the labors in the vineyard, they all were different, came from different places. So don't look at the reward they got. Just be grateful what you've been given and do something with it. I love the Elder Holland's thing about that parable. It's so good. The other thing that I could take from this parable is that I can't compare myself to others to make me look good. I might be saying, well, at least I'm not as bad as fill in the blank. Sometimes we do that with the world.

Well, I'm not so great, but at least I'm not as bad as the rest of the world. And the Lord might say, of course you're not. They started at one and you started at 40. So takes away that crutch. You've gone down and they've gone up. The fact that you're close together is a problem. That's the Pharisee and the publican. You know, I'm glad I'm not like this publican here.

Yeah. So it takes away that crutch from me just saying, well, I'm doing better than most people. He might say, of course you are. You started at a much higher place. Be held accountable for what you've done with what you've been given. He's like, but I understand who you are, what you're doing. I understand where you're coming from. And he's so much better at that than we are. Sometimes, you know, we struggle with, we say, oh, well, they did this bad thing or whatever. And they did do something terrible. But the beauty of this and the beauty of the whole thing is one that I don't have to decide. I love that so much that I have no, I'm under no obligation to decide and say, oh, you did this, you did that. It's the Lord's decision for it.

But also this idea that, again, I like what Hank was saying about this idea of comparison, not comparing, we want it to be fair. Oh, that's not fair. No, no, it's not. That's the whole point. It's not fair. Whatever else the gospel of Jesus Christ is, it's not fair.

It's just, it's good, it's wonderful, but I am not getting what I deserve. What I deserve is to go to hell. Thankfully, all of us are not getting what we deserve. Exactly. Because of Jesus Christ's inexhaustible grace. Well done, thou good and faithful servant. With what I gave you, you did amazing. Well done. Yeah. From where you started and where you finished, you just really improved so much. Let's talk about this guy with the one talent. It seems that he doesn't do anything and he blames God. Well, he blames the Lord in the story. He's like, you get mad so often. So I did nothing. It would be like one of our students saying, I knew you were a hard grader, so I didn't do any work and I didn't come to class. Well, the Lord says, that's not the

problem. You are slothful. That's the problem. It kind of calls him out on it. Yes, he does. Not just for his wrath, but sometimes we try and blame God for any number of things, right? And say, oh, well, I didn't do this because you're this way. And part of it is like, one, did I tell you I'm that way? Did I say that? But in this case, he's like, you're right. You knew I was angry. You knew that I worked and expected a lot out of you. I have high expectations. You knew that. And somehow now, your conception of me was not wrong. But you didn't even try. At no point does he say, this is how much money I expected you to make.

He says, you could have at least just earned interest on it. Put it in the bank. That would have been something. Something. You didn't even try. And I really appreciate that because I do think with President Ballard, God's going to be as merciful as he possibly can. All the mitigating circumstances, everything, every excuse we could possibly make, I was like, yeah, yeah, I know. But the key idea, and I got how this leads to the second coming, is you've got to be doing.

You've got to try. You can't just wait and say, this is the problem with the Thessalonian saints. That's a fun word to say there. The Thessalonian saints end up doing, they just quit. They just stopped. Like Jesus is coming back. We're not going to, we're just going to stop. We're just going to wait.

Waiting does not mean just, just holding on as fast as you know. You've got to be actively doing to wait. It's a perfect parable for the second coming here. I've given you gifts. I'll come back and, and I want to hear what you do with them one day. So be ready for when I come back. Yeah.

And that segues beautifully into the final parable, the sheep and the goats. This one actually sounds even more of the second coming because it's about the king and sheep and goats. And, and although as a minor joke, so my wife and I are both left-handed and one time she was in, in, in Sunday school and somebody asked her, the teacher, the teacher

asked her, he said, so Thora, can you tell us about why God puts the sheep on the right hand and not on the left hand? And Thora said, no, no, I cannot. I have no idea why. And it's bothered me all my life. By the wicked or the left-handed. Sinister. Of course, there's all kinds of things in the sinister and all that stuff with it. And then, you know, there's imagery behind it and whatever, but he divides them up, right? Sheep, you know, like a sheep, like a shepherd, sheep and goats, the sheep on the right hand, those are the good guys. The goats on the left hand. Isn't this something common for a shepherd to do, to let them graze together and then separate them? Put them out and let them do their thing.

And again, the implication, this is why it's in the second coming thing, this is kind of a final separation. Very quickly changes from being about sheep and goats to being about people. This is almost not a parable in that sense. It's still parabolic in the sense it's a story that may or may not have things actually play out but it's kind of a parable about the second coming almost as anything as it is about the second coming the narrative is almost the second coming in this parable yeah it's the beginning three verses are about sheep and goats and then never again it's it's right so king says he says, you blessed up my father,

inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a foreigner and you took me in. I was naked and you clothed me. I was sick and you came and visited me. I was in prison. You came to me.

And then the righteous shall answer, I love this. Lord, what are you talking about? We would have loved that. We never did any of those things. We never saw you. We never fed you. We never gave you any drink.

What are you talking about? And then the king shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as you have done unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Now this is so key, because we're talking in this whole thing, this is still about the second coming,

and it's still about how you wait for the second coming. And we've talked about things that can't be shared, we've talked about the need for preparation, and we've talked all about the need for be actively doing, preparing, taking where you're going and building on what you have. And then he says, the thing that marks the sheep from the goats

is how we've taken care of each other. So in terms of waiting for the second coming, what that looks like, he says, is did you help each other? And not just broadly, did you feed the hungry? How did you have, did you help each other? And not just broadly, you know, did you feed the hungry? How did you have, did you take in strangers? Did you help each other?

And we say, well, no, did you help me? And we're like, no, we didn't. Like, yes, you did. If you help anybody, you've helped me. I like that you're saying that because it's easy to think of a, oh, I get it. Yeah, the sheep, the goats, the righteous, the wicked. No, it's more specific than that. It's those who served others and those who didn't.

It's a different kind of more precise wickedness and righteousness about service. On the other side, he asked the same question. He's like, you never fed me. You never gave me drink. You never helped. And they asked the same thing. Like, what are you talking about? We never saw you.

If you'd been there, we would have helped you. Yeah. Right. If I'd seen you hungry, I would have, yeah, I would have come to the rescue. I would have totally given you food. And he said, anybody you didn't feed, you didn't feed me. This is where Mother Teresa is going to look really good, isn't it? Yes.

This is something that Doctrine and Covenants is very clear on, but so are the Gospels. This is part of our Christian obligation. We are obligated to help people. And I think it's very compelling that Jesus describes this obligation as part of this discourse, as part of the second coming. He's still answering their question, but so he's like, what is it going to be? How are you going to wait for me? He's like, you've got to go out and do and help each other. That's how you're going to be ready for me. Great insight. While you're waiting, you're not just waiting, you're doing and you're serving and you're waiting in the very best way according to doctrine and covenants

one of the things that has to happen before the second coming is we've got to build zion we've got to be the kinds of people who do this and we've got to build a society where we do this again this is one of the last thing he teaches before he dies, but it's the whole thing's a piece with the entire rest of his mortal ministry. One thing I find very compelling as I read the New Testament, especially I read the Gospels. There's not a lot in the Gospels from Jesus about what we call doctrinal topics in the sense of, you know, he doesn't talk a whole lot about degrees of glory. You don't get really priest organization. You don't get any of these things, you know, we'll talk about doctrine. But most of Jesus' teachings in mortality are about how we treat each other.

And I find that incredibly compelling. That when he comes to earth, he's got one chance at this. He's going to teach us the rest of the time all over the place. He's got one place where he's gonna teach on the people directly. And he says, how do you take care of each other? What do you do with? It's not that those topics aren't important. I care deeply about church organization.

It's one of the things I love to write about, but it's not gonna get me into heaven. It's not gonna put me on the right hand of God. If I can write a lovely treatise about church organization in the first century, good for me. But if I do that and neglect to help somebody else, I'm going to be found on the left hand. I see in verse 40 there, in as much as you've done, and that's one of the least of these,

you've done it to me. I see footnote 40A, King Benjamin's. I don't want to call it a punchline, but King Benjamin's point is when you're in the service of your fellow beings, that's how you serve me. And I think for centuries, people have wondered, how do I serve? What's the best way to serve God? And there's an answer here, answering King Benjamin's speech to take care of each other. Elder Uchtdorf talks about, he's like, the two great commandments, love God, love your neighbor.

He says, actually, they're two sides of the same coin. You cannot love God without also loving your neighbor. And he said, sometimes we focus on the spiritual at the expense of the physical. He says, we're missing the point. Actually, one of my favorite scriptures in Doctrine and Covenants, 29, 34, this is God talking to Joseph again, wherefore verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual and not any time have I given to a law which was temporal, neither any man nor the children of men, neither Adam, your father, whom I created. Part of what he's saying here is this idea of helping people,

giving of your substance, sharing, dressing, visiting, helping the sick, these very like in the dirt, physical things. He's like, these are not temporal commandments. These are spiritual commandments. Actually, what God says is, I think they're the same thing. I've never given you a temporal command. I don't even know what those are. This parable of the sheep and the goats, this could be a great week for teachers and parents to share stories of when they've seen people come to the rescue for others, maybe themselves, maybe when they did. I remember when our twins were born, we had three children and we had twins born and it was a lot. People have said, oh, you have twins. I've always wanted twins.

And I thought, oh, goodness. Did I ever tell you, Hank, that we're pregnant with twins right now? You are. Did you not know that? No, we're pregnant wanted twins. And I thought, oh, goodness. Did I ever tell you, Hank, that we're pregnant with twins right now? You are. Did you not know that? No, we're pregnant with twins. The eight and nine? Wow. Eight and nine.

Oh, my goodness. Well, I hate to tell you this, but this is my description of twins. It was three in the morning. I'm holding a baby. My wife is holding a baby. And all four of us are crying. Yes, basically. I'm expecting it. Yeah. wife is holding a baby, and all four of us are crying. Yes, basically. I'm expecting it.

Yeah, there's just so much work. And a lot of people came to our rescue, just came to help us. The Bardo family, Heather and Jake Bardo, came to our rescue and fed us weekly for months. Even over a year, they were feeding us weekly. Jenny Thompson came to our rescue and brought food. We were hungry. Our kids were hungry and we were exhausted and people came to our rescue. I've always loved, and this is a hard one, this story from Melder Holland. He talks about, it's in a talk called Emissaries to the Church. And it was about home teaching at the time, which is now ministering.

I'll read this. He says, on May 30th of last year, my friend Troy Russell pulled his pickup truck slowly out of his garage on his way to donate goods to the local DI. He felt his back tire roll over a bump. Thinking some item had fallen out of his truck, he got out to find his precious nine-year-old son austin lying face down on the pavement their screams priesthood blessings paramedic crew the hospital staff were all to no avail austin was gone oh unable to sleep unable to find peace troy was inconsolable he said it was more than he could bear and he simply could not go on. But into that agonizing breach came three redeeming forces. First was the love

and reassuring spirit of our Father in heaven. The Holy Ghost that comforted Troy, taught him, loved him, and whispered that God knows everything about losing a beautiful and perfect son. Second was his wife, Deidre, who held Troy in her arms and loved him and reminded him that she too had lost that son and was determined not to lose a husband also. Third in this story is John Manning, home teacher extraordinaire. Elder Holland says, I frankly don't know on what schedule John and his junior companion made visits to the Russell home or what message was given when they got there or how they reported the experience. What I do know is that last spring, Brother Manning reached down and picked Troy Russell up off the tragedy of that driveway, just as if he were picking up little Austin himself. Like the watchman brother in the gospel, he was supposed to be. John simply took over the priesthood care and keeping of Troy Russell. He started by saying, Troy, Austin wants you back on your feet, including on the basketball court. So I will be here every morning at 5.15 AM. Be ready because I don't want to have to come in and get you up. And I know Deidre doesn't want me to do that either. I didn't want to go,

Troy told me later, because I had to always take an Austin with me on those mornings. And I knew the memories would be too painful, but John insisted. So I went. From that first day back, we talked, or rather I talked and John listened. I talked the entire drive to the church and the entire drive home. Sometimes I talked as we parked in the form of a very slow 6'2 church ball player with an absolutely pathetic jump shot and, to love and care and pray for the people who you are assigned. I'm sure he would add those who are not assigned, as we love and care and pray for you. May you be vigilant in tending the flock of God. I just thought it fit perfectly with this with this parable i think a key idea there hank is this notion that sometimes when we talk about ministering or helping each other or things like that when we say correctly we're like like oh well it's more than just giving a meal and that's right but i think matthew 25 reminds us it's not less than giving a meal that we almost diminish somehow you know you're talking about your twins when my little

boy died i didn't want to i don't do anything and somebody fed me what i needed then was food even little things like you know again um from you hank you know when when when my my son got hit by a car he lived this one um but you know actually my um hank brought over um a lego set and a Batman shirt. The kid still wears. And actually, his now five-year-old brother was like, he's like, so if I get hit by a car, do I get a Lego set too? And I said, Gareth, let's not do that, okay? Sometimes we're like, this is my point about so much you need to do. It's just visiting, just being there.

I remember our bishop came over and talked to us after Torvald. That was my son who was stillborn. He's like, I don't have much opportunity to do pastoral care. We have a lot of young families in our ward. But it was enough that he came and he visited. Even here in Matthew 25, there's all this stuff stuff about there's the feeding and there's a clothing he's like but you also you came and you just visited me and you listened and you sat i still remember i remember every note i got after torvald every single one and because of that i try real hard to send notes out too.

Because in some way, it costs you nothing. Not even time in that case. Another thing on this, somewhat less, whatever. As I said, we're pregnant with twins right now, which we're very excited about. Twin girls. We're very, very excited about. My wife has described, you know, this is not our first rodeo. But I'm not sure I've competed in the sport before it's kind of how i feel about it thora it's like i had a bad first

trimester and then a second trimester that felt like a third trimester and now i'm in a worse third trimester if that's possible um for it and we're're doing what we can. And a sister in our ward came this Saturday and cleaned my kitchen. I'm sure she'd say, her name's Sarah Campbell. I'm like, embarrass her on this. I'm sure she'd say it was nothing. My kitchen's clean now, and it wasn't before. I think as we think through what it means to be god sheep it means in some ways taking care of god sheep and it means it also means letting people come and help you too sometimes we get so proud we say well no no i don't need anything allow people to serve you yeah i mean life's hard we can't do this by ourselves and we shouldn't even try.

For a long time, I remember President Kimball talking about the threefold mission of the church, proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints, redeem the dead. President Monson added to that care for the poor and needy. And that just seems very President Monson, doesn't it? And today, the work of salvation has been defined. I really like how they've done it in the newest handbook. It's live, care, invite, unite. Live the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Care for those in need. And sometimes it's not just the poor who are in need, as we've just talked about. Live the gospel of Jesus Christ. Care for those in need. Invite all to come into Christ and unite families for eternity. And that can be on both sides of the veil. Those are action words. What to do while we're waiting for the Savior to come back.

Live, care, invite, unite. And of course, the beautiful thing about President Monson's thing is that he added it. He was just articulating what was already there. It was always our mission. He just reminded us of it. From his April 2017 General Conference talk, President Monson said, let us examine our lives and determine to follow the Savior's example by being kind, loving, and charitable. And as we do so, we will be in a better position to call down the powers of heaven for ourselves,

for our families, and for our fellow travelers in this difficult journey back to our heavenly home. John, you and I can't read this story and think of the Sorenson family, who have given and given and given. So this, this podcast could be available to so many people. How can I express how this has blessed me and my family? Yeah. And people all over will come up to me and say, I love that podcast. I love that podcast.

I'll be in the grocery store and someone will stop by and say, I love your podcast. The other day I was walking in the parking lot and someone rolled down their window as they drove by. Love the podcast. All of that love needs to go to Shannon Sorenson and her late husband, Steve, for giving us this chance. If we sat here, how many people could we come up with who have helped the three of us? Just the three of us. We don't have time. Yeah, we'd be here all day.

And then the good that people do in this church and outside the church, it's a beautiful use of agency. There's some things I hate about agency, about pain people can inflict on other people, but there's a flip side to it that I love about agency is like you said, Mother Teresa, John, it's the same agency that took her into the slums of calcutta to help people i remember reading about mother theresa and a reporter was watching her work and

she was helping a man who had a terrible skin disease and i mean just really difficult kind of i don't know how to say it not the word disgusting but but that's what you're thinking yeah it was just really the journalist said he, I would not do that for a million dollars. And mother Teresa heard him and said, oh, neither would I. Because that's not why I'm doing it. As I said before, I find it very, very compelling that this is how Jesus wants us to wait for him. That this is what it means to be the followers and the waiters for Jesus, is wait for the second coming, is, again,

my president tells us all the time, we're preparing the world for Jesus Christ's second coming, right? That the purpose of the church, the purpose of the gathering, the purpose of everything we're doing right now, these prophetic priorities, is to prepare the world for the second coming. And you look here on Matthew 25, and what that looks like is making the kind of world that he wants it to be. That's what it means to repair the world. It means to go out there and help people and find it, and not for money, but for God and his glory to make the world the kind of place that he wants to come back to. That's what agency is for. You're right, Hank. That's our mission.

That's our goal. That's our job is to transform this world through Jesus Christ into Jesus Christ's world. So often we think that's the Lord's job or that's the church's job. When we really should say that's my job. little bit silly thing so brandon sanderson of course is a fantasy author he's also a latter-day saint and there's a bit in one of his books where there's a character who's a he's kind of a god figure in the book and this character is basically praying and he's like he's like aren't you gonna anything to help? And the God figure says, I did. I sent you. And so then the answer to that thing is, aren't you going to help God?

And God's like, I did. I sent you. I love that. Avram, this has been fantastic today, studying Matthew 24 and 25 and seeing how Luke and Mark changed things a little bit. Of course, looking out, Joseph Smith changed Matthew 24. This has just been fascinating and fun.

What do you hope our listeners walk away with? So someone listening today, what do you see someone listening saying, I need to fill in the blank. What's my next step? Yeah, Hank. Thanks.

So the, therefore therefore what of this is jesus christ is coming back i mean in some ways this is the central part of the christian message jesus christ is a comeback and we we get the privilege as his followers to make the world a place he wants to be. We get the privilege to wait for him. We get the privilege to learn and to grow, to spread and to teach and to build his gospel and build his kingdom. So I think that if we take away from this, sometimes we talk about the end of the world, we get this almost zombie apocalypse mad max kind of

idea um behind what it is and i think that matthew 24 math 25 just met matthew all these things we've read today mark 13 as we've read through these recognizing that that's not how the lord wants to see the end of the world it's gonna be great be great. It's going to be amazing. A wedding feast, Revelation, another book where we get caught up in the locusts and the pit and all this. It's fun stuff. But if we're not careful, we can miss that central message. There at the end there where he says he's going to come and John says he's going to wipe away every tear. He's going to come and he's going to wipe away every tear. He's going to come and he's going to make everything better.

And that's the takeaway, brothers and sisters. That's the takeaway for everybody. Jesus Christ is going to make everything better. And we have the privilege now to do our best to make things better as we wait for him to come. And this is why there's lots of things in this church I love. Lots of things I believe, lots of things I would ever.

But one of the bedrocks of my testimony is that Jesus Christ is coming back. And it's gonna be wonderful. Thank you for being with us today. We've loved having you back. I was happy to be back. Thanks. Really fun.

We have a good assignment here, don't we? Yeah, I feel like, man, we better hit stop so that I can go serve somebody. Yeah, that's exactly right. Let's go find someone to help. Yeah, I got to find someone to help. I better today. I better find someone to help. Yeah, I got to find someone to help. I better today. I better find someone to help.

Not wait till tomorrow. I better do something with what I've been given and get ready for the wedding. Right? All of that. You've shown us that preparation for the second coming, you should be pretty busy. That's what Jesus seems to suggest. Yes, absolutely. There's a lot to do to prepare you and to prepare the world.

So get out there and let him find you working when he comes again. Thank you. We want to thank Dr. Avram Shannon for being with us today, taking his time to be with us. We, of course, want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorenson, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorenson. And we always remember our founder, Steve Sorenson. And we hope all of

you will join us next week as we come back with another episode of Follow Him. Today's transcripts, show notes, and additional references are available on our website, followhim.co, followhim.co. And you can watch the podcast on YouTube with additional videos on Facebook and Instagram. All of this is absolutely free, so be sure to share with your family and friends. To reach those who are searching for help with their Come Follow Me study, please subscribe, rate, review, or comment on the podcast, which makes the podcast easier to find.

Thank you. We want to thank our incredible production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielsen, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, and Ariel Cuadra. We also love hearing from you, our listeners. Hello, Hank, John, and the Come Follow Him friends. I just wanted to make this little video to thank you for putting this podcast together. Every week, it's been a joy to listen to you and your guests speak about the life of the Savior.

And I just wanted to basically say thank you for having a format where out of the mouth of three witnesses, we can feel the testimonies and that strength that you have and share with us that I know that it helps me and strengthens my testimony every week that I listen. So thanks.