followHIM - Mathew 27; Mark 15; Luke 23; John 19 Part 2 • Jack Welch • June 19 - June 25

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

Professor John “Jack” Welch explores the final seven statements Jesus made from the cross and discusses its connection to Psalms 22.00:00 Part II–Professor John “Jack” Welch00:10  Using Jesus’s final statements in class or home02:12 Jesus’s first statement from Psalm 2205:08 When we feel forsaken07:41 Dr. Shon Hopkin article on Psalm 2209:04 Jesus forgives 12:31 Sister Kristen Yee’s story of forgiveness15:08 What is Jesus teaching from the cross?17:24 Jesus addresses his mother, Mary and John20:25 Jesus thirsts24:03 Professor Welch, Editor of article by Shon Hopkin25:30 Jesus and the Determinate Council27:10 Jesus’s final statement from the cross29:23 Hymns as comfort through trials31:50 Jesus does the will of the Father32:55 It is finished (and perfect)35:46 Jesus as model for love and patience through trials38:59 End of Part II–Professor John “Jack: WelchPlease rate and review the podcast.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to part two with Professor Jack Welch, Matthew 27, Mark 15, Luke 23, and John 19. Jack, thank you so much for the tender way we're walking through this can be graphic, difficult, heartbreaking scene. The Savior is now taken to Golgotha. He's nailed to a cross. He still has things to teach. Can you walk us through that? I know there's a part in the Come Follow Me manual towards the end that talks about the Savior's statements from the cross, and it says perhaps you could assign a family member, each family member, to read one of the statements from the Savior made on the cross found in these verses. It talks about Matthew 27, Luke 23, and John 19. And we can talk about what we learned from these statements about the Savior and his mission.

Is that something that we could do with you? Yes, I'd be very happy to go through those. There are seven statements that Jesus makes from the cross. And like you said, chart 10-14 is an easy handout that if you wanted to use this in a family setting so that people have all of them. And perhaps you could just open it up in your family and say who would like to comment on the first one. Pick one that you'd like to comment on. But I'd say cover all seven. And what lessons can we learn?

And what do we learn about Jesus? What do we learn about Jesus? What do we learn about ourselves? And what we can do in receiving and accepting the gifts that he has given us. No gift is complete until it's been accepted. You know, you can try to give somebody something, but if they won't accept it, it's not a gift. It may sit on the doorstep, but he has tried to give us the gifts of eternal life and of so many blessings. What can we do to accept those gifts? I think that's what Jesus is trying to encourage in all of these on the cross. To the very end, he's a true teacher. You know, that's something, there's a lesson in that, isn't there? True teachers don't give up. If there's any light on in that dark brain, we'll try to make that light shine. listed here on your chart is about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eli, Eli,

you guys will have to help me with this, lama sabachthani, that is to say, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? I think our listeners, if they didn't catch it earlier, you said that that was actually from a psalm. That's the opening line of Psalm 22. It's interesting that he's crying this out with a loud voice. And that might be something that we might relate to if you think of the pioneers coming across the plains, just singing out, come, come ye saints. You don't have to say any more than that. And people then understand all four verses. But a point here, it says about the ninth hour. The first hour of the

day was at sunrise. They don't have a 24-hour clock with noon and midnight, but the ninth hour would be the ninth of 12 hours in the day. So we are three quarters through the day. So it's about three in the afternoon. And Jesus was probably taken to the place of crucifixion. We're not sure, but some people think about nine o'clock in the morning because it's going to take a while to get out there and do all of the things that need to be done. By saying this line from the hymn, he very well could be calling out to God, why hast thou forsaken me? But in using the lines of the hymn, he might be telling anyone who knows the Psalms, who's listening, I know who I am. Yeah.

People there listening thought that when he was calling Eli, Eli, that he was calling for Elias or Elijah. And that's an interesting thing in their language that when had Jesus encountered Elijah, it was at the Mount of Transfiguration. And Elijah and Moses had appeared and had given Jesus eternal powers or reported to him at least as Jesus is now being given all of the keys of the previous dispensations, fulfilling the previous laws of Moses. So when he calls out, my God, Eli, my God, at least some people in the audience, some people there at the cross thought he was referring to Elijah, who of course had been taken up into heaven and promised that he would come again. So there's some similarities with the powers that Jesus had and the power that Elijah had. And both Elijah and Elisha and Jesus were great miracles. Things to think about there as we realize, okay, but why have you left me alone? When it says forsaken,

I think that why have you left me alone doesn't mean that you're completely abandoned. I think you feel completely abandoned, but you're not really. Why have you left me alone? And I think Jesus is recognizing, I have been left alone because I have to fulfill this mission myself. So that's a part of the 22nd Psalm. But I think we in our lives, when we're going through really tough times, and we're wondering, why are we being asked to go through this? We also can say, where can I turn for help? I've been left alone, and sometimes we even feel even Jesus isn't quite ready to just jump in and bail us out. It takes time. We have to work it through ourselves.

Why have you left me alone? So that you can actually become who you are going to become. You will be glorified by descending below all things. And in our lives, sometimes overcoming the toughest challenges are the places where we rise to the greatest heights. I mean, he is asking the question, why have you done this? And I don't think it's a rhetorical question. I think there are real answers that he felt and maybe was reassured of. We aren't told what he then hears from the Father. Don't you imagine that there's a little cheering and encouragement going on, but still saying, I'm still here, but you've got to finish this course. As Paul says, I finished the course that I was given, and Jesus will do

that too. I believe Elder Holland has talked about that, that he gave a talk about that he wanted to testify he was not left alone in that hour, that the Father may never have been closer, but he did have to let him accomplish that alone. Does that ring a bell to you? It certainly does, yes. And he really emphasized the word, why hast thou forsaken me? I see that these others have, but why hast thou? The way Elder Holland read it was, whoa, yeah, you can see the question takes on more meaning that way. Our friend, Dr. Sean Hopkins, wrote a wonderful article with BYU Studies on Psalm 22 and the mission of Christ where he says, most Latter-day Saints and other Christians are either

unaware that Christ was quoting Psalm 22 when he made this well-known statement from the cross, or they see it as simply as a fulfillment of an isolated prophecy from the Old Testament. When seen from a broader view, this verse introduces all of Psalm 22. The complete text of the psalm follows a pattern found in other psalms known as psalms of lament, moving from a sufferer's cries of anguish because of his trials to a request for aid and ending in a note of triumph as the sufferer anticipates the assistance he will receive from God or expresses gratitude that the desired assistance will come. So, by referring just to this one verse, Dr. Hopkins is saying that Jesus might be referring to the entire psalm in the story that's told there. I certainly recommend that article very highly. Let's move to this second statement

made from the cross. This is from Luke 23, verse 34. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Very famous statement and a very loaded statement for him to make, showing his character and then also teaching us. Yeah. And what does he mean here when he says they know not what they do? Don't they know perfectly well what they're doing? In a way. But if they really knew who Jesus was, would they be doing this? So they're not acting with full understanding and therefore they're not fully liable or culpable. Under Jewish law, there was an exception, for if you do something unwittingly, unknowing, if you do something ignorantly, you're not guilty, because a crime has to be, with what we call mens rea, a guilty mind. You have to know what you're doing and do it purposely.

Now, they were misguided. In a lot of ways, they did not know what they were doing. And when you go to Peter in Acts chapter 2, when he talks about ye men, he's dealing now in that chapter with a bunch of people who have witnessed these miracles, the speaking in tongues. And Peter will reach out to them and said, yes, some people were involved in killing Jesus, but they did so ignorantly. There are two places there where Peter, who himself only 50 days earlier had been involved with this whole episode with the crucifixion, Peter is the one who also will acknowledge that they have done this

ignorantly. I think Peter is echoing what Jesus said on the cross. They knew not what they were doing. And Peter then absolves people to some extent of the liability because if they had known better or known more, they wouldn't have done it. And it's interesting here that Luke is the only one who mentions this saying from the cross, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And Luke is the one who only a few chapters later will write Acts chapter 2, because Acts chapter 1 follows right after Luke 24, because Luke-Acts was originally a pair of scrolls that went together. So anybody reading this on the cross and then reading Acts chapter 2 is going to put these two passages together. What about this Father, forgive them part of it? Where do those words

come from? Did Jesus ever use those words before? Our Father who art in heaven, forgive us our debts, forgive us our trespasses to the extent that we forgive others. Jesus was interested in promoting and encouraging forgiveness, and he forgave abundantly. Even someone who owed 10,000 talents was forgiven, but only so long as he was willing to forgive someone else. So forgive them. If you don't know what you're doing, then you're not at the same level of responsibility as for those who do. But I think we can be encouraged. Most of the time when we do something wrong, we know what we're doing. A little point like that is a way of opening up a realization. But here, when they truly did not know what they were doing, they were worthy of being forgiven. This reminded me of Sister Kristen Yee speaking in General Conference last year.

I bet you both will remember this. She says, I have personally witnessed the miracle of Christ healing my warring heart. With permission of my father, I share that I grew up in a home where I didn't always feel safe because of emotional and verbal mistreatment. In my youth and young adult years, I resented my father and had anger in my heart from that hurt. Over the years, and in my efforts to find peace and healing on the path of forgiveness, I came to realize in a profound way that the same Son of God who atoned for my sins is the same Redeemer who will also save those who have deeply hurt me. I could not truly believe the first truth without believing the second. And then later on in the talk, she says,

I testify that the greatest example of love and forgiveness is that of our Savior Jesus Christ, who in bitter agony said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Well, Joseph Smith said on that point that Jesus, when he says, forgive them, for they know not what they do, that he was only thinking at that point of the soldiers who were crucifying him. They were carrying out their orders. They were doing what they were commanded to do. They would have been less culpable because they were really responsible to someone else. They're not doing this of their own free will and choice. And that's where the problem of choice and choosing the wrong,

as Lehi says, you have two choices, and you choose good or evil. This is not a case where they had chosen, really, in that realm or that way. President Monson used to love to quote George Herbert, an early 17th century poet, who wrote these lines, He that cannot forgive others breaks the bridge over which he himself must pass if he would ever reach heaven, for everyone has need of forgiveness. I remember him using that poem a couple of times. Hugh Nibley, of all people, said, none of us is very smart, none of us knows very much,

but the things the angels envy us for is we can forgive and we can repent. Does that ring a bell? Sure does. And he concluded by saying, so let's get forgiving and repenting. That's awesome. Let's move to this third statement, Jack. This is also from Luke. And Jesus said to the robber, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. I've often wondered, is Jesus trying to teach with this statement, and what is he trying to teach? Well, you remember there were two robbers,

one on the right and one on the left. I don't know which was on which side, but one of them said, if you're really the son of God, why don't you get us out of this mess? And the other one said, when you get to your glory, remember me. Don't forget. We went through this together. And Jesus said, don't worry. Thou shalt be with me in paradise. Because of your willingness, because of you wanting me to remember you, because you have remembered me. This word remember, of course, is a covenant word. And because that robber wanted to be remembered, that qualified him to be with the Savior in paradise and not in the spirit prison. Because everybody to that point who had died had gone to spirit prison because the gates of hell had not yet been opened.

Jesus will go in the time that his body is in the tomb, his spirit will go down into the underworld and he will then unlock the gates of hell for those who can then want to come out. Section 138, yeah. And this robber was a good guy. He had the right heart, and Jesus recognized that. I've also thought that perhaps he's testifying to those listening of life after death. He's confident in the doctrine that he's taught, that he will live after this upcoming death.

Of course, Jesus says, I am the resurrection and the life. And the Lazarus episode, which set this whole process in motion, was all because Jesus had power over death. And yes, I will be with you tomorrow. He's very clearly thinking along those terms. Jack, let's move to the next statement. This is from John chapter 19. When Jesus therefore saw his mother and the disciple standing by whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son.

Then saith he to the disciple, behold thy mother. I know that often we take that as John take care of my mother, but there's this other statement, woman, behold thy son. I can see that both ways. I love what you introduced to us today that Mary had probably sung those Psalms and for a long time had known what was coming. Behold thy son, it's happening, everything that you've known. It could have been that. Another school of thought, of course, is John's going to take care of you now. I know that's one that I've been taught before. But I love the idea that Mary knew very early what was coming when they brought the baby Jesus to the temple.

And she was told a sword will pierce thy soul also. Yeah, Simeon, right? Yeah, Simeon. So maybe that's what all of this is remembering. What do you guys think? I think linguistically there is a reciprocity here that's important. It might be paraphrased by saying, take care of each other. You now will go forward.

Life will go on. You're still my mother. John, you're still the son. Behold each other. Watch out for each other. Take care of each other. There will be difficult times ahead. Jesus will encourage the disciples to leave Jerusalem because it's not safe for them to remain there.

So I think Jesus especially doesn't want to leave Mary without them. Joseph is dead. So Jesus is the oldest son would probably have been taking some care of her. But I think there's a great family message in this that even in our most extreme concerns, our primary loyalties are to the family. And John, don't worry about the church right now. Worry about your mother. And mom, let's keep our family together. And I think that was an urgent and important message that it's so easy to be distracted and discouraged and kind of give up

on a lot of things when things don't seem to be turning out the way you thought they would be. But this is saying, stay the path, hold on. And you do that by caring for each other, recognizing each other, taking care of each other. Yeah, what a great way to teach that. That Jesus would pay that kind of respect to his mother when he should really be thinking more about himself. You'd expect. It is. In fact, I think I've heard people say that the only kind of request that statement that Jesus made from the cross about himself was that he thirsted.

Everything else was about others. I think that's true as we look at these. Yeah, that's actually the next one, number five from John. Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. And you told us earlier, that's from Psalms. Right, Jack? Yeah, Psalm 22, 15 says, my strength is dried up like a potsherd. I'm just like a little broken piece of pottery. And my tongue cleaveth to my jaws.

So when Jesus is saying, I thirst, in Psalm 22 itself, it prepared any listener, any singer to walk through the kind of agony that Jesus is experiencing. And when he expresses that, he's affirming, yes, I thirst. He has also said, I am the water, I'm the bread, and the living water of life. That he would be thirsting when he is the living water of life, that he would be thirsting when he is the living water is not actually irrational because what he always does is gives out the living water. And now he's recognizing that even though he is pouring out all of his soul and all of the water of eternal life, he's giving everything he's got, every drop. I love that.

I really do. I've never thought of it that way. What about number six? What do they do? They give him vinegar. Yeah. That's John 19. When Jesus, therefore, had received the vinegar, he said, it is finished.

Yeah. Psalm 69, verse 21 says, they gave me also gall for my meat, and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. So that's Psalm 69, but it has some of the same elements in it in Psalm 22. And one that we haven't mentioned is Psalm 22, verse 16. For dogs have compassed me. The assembly of the wicked have enclosed me. The assembly, that's the Sanhedrin. They pierced my hands and my feet.

That's right in Psalm 22. And Sean Hopkins' article was motivated by the discovery of a little fragment of this Psalm from the Dead Sea. And the reason that's important is that in some Hebrew manuscripts, it doesn't say they pierced my hands and my feet. It says, like a lion. And you say, what's that got to do with piercing my hands and my feet? Well, it just changes one little letter in the Hebrew, and you can change the whole meaning of that expression. We have in the Greek, the Septuagint, this version of the psalm, which reads, they pierced my hands and my feet.

But the Hebrew seemed to just say something else. The oldest Hebrew that we had before the Dead Sea Scrolls was the Masoretic Hebrew, which comes from around the 9th and 10th century AD. The Dead Sea Scrolls fragment a thousand years earlier and comes from the time of Jesus. And it reads the same way as the Greek here in Psalm 22. And that's what Sean Hopkins wanted to be sure we understood. And out of that one important Dead Sea Scrolls finding, and I was the editor for Sean on that, I said, well, let's cover all of the passages, all of Psalm 22, and be sure that there aren't any other textual differences. And there weren't.

But putting the whole piece together shows how prophetically fulfilling, step by step, the atonement, the death, the resurrection of Jesus was. I've always thought of Isaiah 53 as the perfect Masonic chapter, but now Psalm 22 has risen from my studies this year. And I think we talk a lot about the law and the prophets, that division of the Old Testament, but I love that Jesus includes, is it in Luke at the end? Luke 24, 44, he said unto them, these are the words which I spake unto you while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the Psalms concerning me. So I love that Jesus includes the law, the prophets, and the Psalms right there.

And when you go to Acts chapter 2, where Peter is talking, start with verse 23. And it kind of summarizes a lot of the things we've been talking about. 23 says, him, Jesus, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God. What is the determinate counsel? That word counsel should not be spelled the way it is here. It should be spelled C-O-U-N-C-I-L. It's the counsel in heaven, and it's determining what will happen in this world by the foreknowledge of God who knows what should and will happen. Him ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain, whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by death. And then this is relating to the Psalms, the next verse, 25.

For David, when did David speak concerning him? For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, and he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved. Therefore did my heart rejoice. Well, David is, of course, the one who gives us the Psalms. And if David foresaw what was going to happen, them is composed to make that point clear. What a fantastic connection. Peter saw that too. Let's move to the last statement from the cross. This is from Luke 23. Jesus had cried with a loud voice. He said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. Let's add on to that final statement, the Matthew 27, 54 JST, where Joseph Smith writes,

Jesus cried with a loud voice saying, Father, it is finished. Thy will is done. Yielded up the ghost. His final words in mortality, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. Thy will is done. What a perfect statement to finish with. As of the utmost importance, we talked about the council in heaven where Jesus said, I will go and do thy will. Lucifer said, I will do it and I'll get all the glory. Who shall enter into the kingdom of heaven? Jesus asks it toward the end of Matthew chapter 7.

He who doeth the will of the Father. And of course, in the prayer of Gethsemane, not my will, but thy will be done. So for him to conclude, as Joseph Smith adds in there, thy will has been completed. And since we're talking about the Psalms, if you go to Psalm 31, verse 5, here's what it says. Into thine hand I commit my spirit. Thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth. Once again, another element of the Psalms. As Jesus understands the spiritual underpinnings of life and what we are doing. And he has the ability to remember and bring into focus an immediate application. These inspired words that will also give us those kind of benefits too. Speaking of Elder Holland,

don't you love his book on the Psalms? And I like C.S. Lewis's book called Reflections on the Psalms. We don't spend as much time as we probably should understanding our own hymns, understanding the hymns of early Christianity. There's a hymn called the Hymn of the Pearl, beautiful Syriac hymn that sounds a lot like, Oh, My Father.

You can find that in BYU studies too. But these hymns, music, music is deeper than just conversation. When you hear the tabernacle choir, when you sing the hymns of Zion, you can be touched by deeper feelings that resonate with not just your mind, but your voice,

your body, your whole soul, as you embrace these truths and share them with other people. And I think that's what Jesus is modeling for us, encouraging us to do. These sustained him through his greatest trial and turmoil. And the scriptures, and especially the Psalms, will always do the same for us as well. They're like a prophecy. And I think it gives us comfort, even when we know bad things are coming, just to know that they're coming, that we have prophecy about the last days and we can feel some comfort in, wow, yeah, this was supposed to happen. I don't know if comfort's the right word, but there's something about knowing the end of the story that gives us comfort,

maybe I could say. And that footnote, Hank, that you referred to in Matthew 27, I had always thought before I came across that, that it is finished. I always thought it was his suffering because that's what I would have been focusing on, right? And for him to say, it is finished, thy will is done, shows that even in that kind of intense suffering, he was focusing on doing the Father's will. As Jack just said, which is amazing, that thy will be done became thy will is done. And another thing that Elder Holland mentioned once is that when Jesus appeared to the righteous in third Nephi, that one of the first things out of his mouth was that I have done the will of the Father from the beginning. And he kind of emphasized that what's the one thing that Savior wants us to know? It's that

I have done the will of the Father from the beginning. And if you don't mind, just one other little thing that has been important to me in Luke 23, 46 there, into thy hands I commend my spirit. And having said this, he gave up the ghost. And I just wanted to circle he in my scriptures. That once again we see they didn't really kill him. He gave his life. And even at this point, he chose the time of his death. He gave up the ghost.

Because I like my students to know, and it blesses me to know he was a willing sacrifice and he gave up the ghost in that moment. That's great, John. When Jesus says it is finished, the word that he uses there for finished is tetelestai. And that word is the same root as the word telios, which means perfect. Be ye therefore perfect can also be, be ye therefore finished. And when he says it is finished, he is also saying it is perfect. I mean, it goes both ways. And then, of course, in the Book of Mormon, that perfect, it doesn't mean that it's perfect. It just means, okay, this is finished. Or he says, be therefore perfect or finished, even as I or your Father, which is in heaven, is finished or perfect. So, we believe in eternal progression.

And so, in a sense, nothing is ever completely perfect. It's always ongoing. We are always progressing. But when Jesus says, it is finished, this step is now perfectly done. That's really good. And I love that both Paul and Moroni will seeing a sign in a furniture shop that said, finishers wanted and made a whole talk out of that idea of finishing. And I love to think of that when I think of the Savior. His work was complete and whole. So, it just reminded me of that.

In 1999, Elder Jeffery Holland said, even as he moved toward the crucifixion, Jesus restrained his apostles who would have intervened by saying, the cup which my father has given me, shall I not drink it? When that unspeakable ordeal was finished, he uttered what must have been the most peaceful and deserved words of his mortal ministry. At the end of his agony, he whispered, It is finished, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. Finally, it was over, Elder Holland says. Finally, he could go home. I confess that I have reflected at length upon that moment and the resurrection which would shortly follow it. I have wondered what that reunion must have been like. The father that loved his son so much, the son that honored

and revered his father in every word and deed. For two who were one as these two were one, what must that embrace have been like? Jack, Brother Welch, this has just been fantastic walking through these chapters with you, these very tender chapters. What do you hope our listeners take home from all this? Well, I have come to appreciate the goodness of the cross, the goodness of the gospel, and I hope that everyone can feel that Jesus understands us better than he did even in the spirit world, that we all learn things that we can only learn in mortality, and we shouldn't be discouraged by these things. Jesus is our great model. He loves us. He will be there to do whatever he can, knowing that he can't do it all for us. We must also accept him and do his will and keep his commandments. He says, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. He will then be able to

reciprocate that love even more than he already does. As we've been reading today, I've just been motivated to make it through my dark times. And I'm sure there's many listeners out there who say, because Jesus did this, I can walk my path. John, what a great day. Yeah, so wonderful to spend this time with you. Thanks for being with us today. You're certainly welcome.

Thank you. Thanks be to God us today. Well, you're certainly welcome. Thank you. Thanks be to God for his goodness to all of us. It's been a privilege to be here. Thank you. Thank you. We want to thank Brother Jack Welch for being with us today.

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Something for everyone and such great examples for my family. Thank you so much. Bye.