followHIM - Matthew 6-7 Part 1 • Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson • Feb. 20 - Feb. 26

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

How do the Savior’s teachings help us focus on heavenly things? Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson examines the Sermon on the Mount, righteous judgment, and many modern topics that affect the modern Saint.00:00 Part 1–Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson01:00 Introduction of Dr. Lili De Hoyos Anderson03:52 Introduction to Matthew 6 and 705:39 Rule of the Natural Man08:38 Harnessing the Natural Man 10:44 The sanctifying role of the Holy Spirit14:42 The gifts of the Spirit18:12 Dr. Anderson shares a personal story about Columbia Law School19:33 Boyd K Packer and knock, seek, and ask23:32 “No man can serve two masters”27:59 Dr. Anderson shares a story of teaching and adult class31:17 Dr. Anderson shares a story about President Kimball and a train ride33:10 Divine Discontent35:40 Public zealousness40:44 Vain repetitions in prayer46:27 Prayer is alignment with God49:01 Treasures in heaven and living without fear54:09 The beauty of sparrows56:53 Dr. Anderson shares a story of personal faith during hardship1:08:43 Worrying and anxious concern 1:13:10 End of Part 1–Dr. Lili De Hoyos AndersonShow Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.coFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-piano

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith. And I'm John, by the way. We love to learn. We love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello, my friends. Welcome to a new episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith and I'm your host. I'm here with my unhypocritical co-host, John, by the way. You know me so unwell. John, I was reading this week's lesson and it said, hypocrites do this and hypocrites do that. And I was like, well, John doesn't do any of those things. So he must be an unhypocrite. I don't know if that's a word, but it's you. You're an unhypocritical co-host, John, by the way.

I'll try to live up to that. Thank you. Yes, please do. Hey, John, we're going to be in second half of the Sermon on the Mount today. Great stuff, but we needed an expert to join us. Who is with us? Yes. Past couple of days, I've just been thinking, yeah, all we have is the rest of the Sermon on the Mount, just that, which is amazing. So we have Lily DeHoyos Anderson, who has been with us before, one of our most listened to guests by our listeners. They just love her. So I'll tell you, I'll refresh your memory. For those of you might not remember, Lily is a first generation American. Her mother is French. Her father is Mexican. She was born in a little border town in Texas, but her family soon moved to the Midwest, where she grew up in Michigan and Indiana. When she started high school, both her parents began teaching at BYU. So the family moved to Provo, and she graduated from Provo High School.

What a great background. Dr. Anderson attended BYU, graduated in sociology and social science runs in the family. Both her parents are retired professors of sociology and her husband, Chris Anderson, is also a social worker with Church Family Services. The Andersons have eight children, and you might remember this, Hank, they're affectionately referred to as the Alphabet Kids because their names are Adam, Bethany, Caitlin, Dominic, Eden, Faith, Graydon, and Harper. And they now have 37 grandchildren and one great-grandchild. Did I hear that?

Wow. That's correct. Yeah. And Sister Anderson has served on committees for the Public Affairs Department of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Her greatest love after the gospel in her family is teaching. She taught five years of early morning seminary in Las Vegas in June of 2021. Lily started a weekly podcast called Choosing Glory and is delighted to be able to teach, testify, and defend the faith she loves in a medium that is accessible to people everywhere. So we are so glad to have you back. And I'm really looking forward to going

through these chapters today. Thanks for being back with us again, Dr. Anderson. It's a pleasure to be here. I should mention one other thing, because this is a new thing for me, besides the podcast being kind of new just a couple years ago. So I'm branching out still. Some of my kids have pushed and a lot of my clients have pushed to do an audio book. So I'm actually taking my old book and finally recording it into an audio format, which should be available sometime in April. Now what's that called? Well, that is the book that I wrote choosing glory. So I keep using that same wonderful title. And then hopefully, I'm really trying to figure out how I can beg, borrow or steal enough time to finish a manuscript I started a few years back on healthy emotional boundaries.

Such a huge need in our world with so many people who get hurt or don't know how to handle difficult relationships or situations where they feel victimized. So that's something I just feel so passionate about. And I'm just really praying that the Lord will guide me to moments where I can finish that project so that it can get out. Can bless some people. Absolutely. Yeah. Follow him as a big fan of Lily Anderson. All right, Lily, we're going to be in Matthew six and seven today. We'll just kind of hand the reins over to you.

John and I will jump in every once in a while, but we want to hear what you think about these two amazing chapters. Well, they are amazing chapters. These opportunities that we have to read the words of Christ as he preaches to the people are just loaded. I mentioned this when we were just visiting that as I sat down to try to put some thoughts together and kind of organize them, I just felt flooded. I felt totally flooded with the value of the admonitions here, the meanings, the applications were just so overwhelming almost. I love it, but I was like, okay, this is going to be a little challenging to try to put this in a place that it's consumable without it just being a list of good ideas. I didn't want to just go through and

say, well, here's a thought, here's a thought, here's a thought. So here's the arc that I started to see. Let me start with this. And I use this title, as you know, all the time, choosing glory, because in section 88 of the DNC, it talks about a law being assigned to every glory, and that he that cannot abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide celestial glory, same is true of the terrestrial and the telestial, right? I remember going through that and thinking like, well, what is celestial law? And how does it differ from terrestrial law? And how do those differ from telestial law? I kind of wanted to make sure which law I was living. And that ended up becoming a whole book that I apply that principle to. I kind of present that model and apply it to marriage, family, mate selection, stress, all kinds of things. But those three ways

of looking at life are very helpful. And they can help us understand some of the messages in the gospel. They can help us understand the choices we're making and what we're teaching our children. I mean, the applications are endless. So let me just quickly talk about what I summarize those laws to be. And this is all based on scripture. I think you'll recognize the themes. I would suggest that telestial law is the rule of the natural man. In other words, the appetite satisfaction and immediate gratification are driving the bus. People are a law unto themselves, as the scripture says. They want to do what they want to do. It's carnal, sensual, devilish. All

those appetites are preeminent. People do what they want to do without heed to God's opinion or even the well-being of the people around them necessarily. It can be very hurtful and destructive and it does bring about the destruction of relationships typically. So very, very lousy way to live. And of course it cannot be approved by God. It cannot have the attendance of the spirit in our lives when we are indulging the natural man.

And look, we're in a world that talks about indulging the natural man constantly. Follow your heart, but they really mean follow your natural man. And when they say things like be true to yourself, they mean be true to your natural man self. So there are all these messages about why should you wait, FOMO, YOLO, you only live once, you know, just do it and do it now and grab all the gusto you can get. I mean, every commercial basically is about how we deserve that pleasure and that pleasure now. So that is really a telestial life. If we live that way, if we allow our children to continue to just focus on their appetites and the satisfaction of those appetites, when and

where they want to without regard for the commandments of God and the structures of even society, we're not serving them well. They are living telestial law and that's the kingdom they'll inherit. So basically we are choosing glory every day, every day and in every action we are choosing, am I living to less law or do I choose something better? Do I choose terrestrial law? Let's talk about that even though we're not going for the gold yet, but I would suggest after years of considering these things and studying and applying them in lots of places that terrestrial law is the foundation of celestial law. So you can't really skip it. You need to go from the terrestrial to the terrestrial and have

a good foundation there, and then the celestial is added upon. So what is the terrestrial? It's the harnessing of the natural man. That's job one. Remember, we know King Benjamin gave that great warning in Messiah 319, that the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever unless he yields to the enticements of the Holy Spirit and put it off the natural man. So this is step one in our progression to first harness those appetites, to no longer allow our appetites, passions, desires to rule us and not to be a law to ourselves, but actually to acknowledge sacred law, the laws of society, the laws of family, the laws of relationships. Anyway, just recognize that there should be constraints on the fulfillment of our appetites so that we can get along better with people, so that we can stop causing trouble, so that we can stop being hurtful and destructive. Of course, we can see that addictions and self-defeating behaviors really do fall into

the telestial realm because there's a lot of destruction involved in those things. But we can lift those things up. And if we need to get help and use resources, please do. That's wonderful. They're available for us so that we can gain mastery over the natural man. And that, mind you, is just terrestrial. That's just terrestrial. And think about how many of our children remain in a terrestrial realm. I mean, kind of went off on this last time with a Daniel podcast about how important it is for us to teach our children to harness their appetites, to harness that natural man, and how we as parents incentivize them to do so and be committed to that. Because otherwise,

they leave our homes as natural men, and the spirit cannot be with them because they are constantly offending the spirit. So that terrestrial realm again, is just such a good safety net. It's such a good landing spot for the growth toward the celestial, but getting out of the telestial and in a world that is constantly advertising the telestial, no small commitment, but really an essential first commitment. Now what's next is added upon the terrestrial. And that is not just doing the right thing, which harnesses the natural man. So even if I want to say something nasty to somebody, or I feel selfish, or I'm angry, and I want to yell, I don't.

I bite my tongue, grit my teeth, or clench my fist and say, okay, I really want to do that bad thing, but I'm not going to because I know better. I'm not going to just let into my appetites. I'm actually going to control this and I'm going to do the right thing. Now that's wonderful terrestrial stuff. But in order to become celestial, there's only one law to the celestial kingdom and that's Christ-like being. Not Christ-like, because we can actually behave like Christ at the terrestrial harness the natural man level. I don't have to say mean things. I don't have to do things that are bad. I don't have to expose myself to sin or impurities of thought or in the

media or whatever. I can behave more like Jesus Christ at the terrestrial level. But what separates me from being more celestial or being like him, it's that integration of the heart with the behavior so that I'm not just doing the right thing. I'm motivated by the right thing. I am feeling the right things. This isn't like, okay, I want to really say a mean thing to you, but I'm going to hold back. I'm not white knuckling through life. Yeah. I don't even have a desire to say anything mean to you because I am learning to see you the way the Lord sees his children and to see their value and their worth.

And I would no more do that than go throw myself over a cliff because I don't want to treat people in a way that is not consistent with their value. And now how does that happen? It's not white knuckling it. It's not like I'm just going to sit here and grit my teeth until I love everybody. Because it just doesn't work. But it's the Holy Ghost. And what characterizes that movement from the terrestrial to the celestial is the sanctifying

power of the Holy Ghost that changes our hearts, that writes God's law in our hearts. Alma talks about a mighty change of heart that comes from that sanctifying power where elements of corruption are burned out of us. This is one of the great roles of the Holy Ghost. He has several roles, and this is one of them, that he sanctifies us if we are consistently obedient. And we ask for that. And we ask for that wonderful gift of sanctifying power,

that sanctification, which then helps to create in us that death of the old man of sin and the birth of the new child of Christ that is clean in a whole new way and no longer having that tug of war with the flesh. You know, the cartoons where they'd have like an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other. You can still have that tug of war going on at the terrestrial. You can win that tug of war at the terrestrial, but to be at the celestial realm, the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost removes that tug of war. It changes us to be more fully conformed and desirous and feeling the ways that Christ feels. This is high level stuff and it's so marvelous that God makes this available to us. Now what's going on in the Sermon on the Mount is that God is inviting these people who have lived the law of Moses.

Now, some of them have been pretty consistent and good about living the law of Moses, but that mostly got them to a terrestrial level. It was about don't indulge the natural man. Honor God. Remember him. Do these sacrifices. Do all these observances. And further, don't kill. I mean, even the 10 commandments basically are kind of the barrier

between the telestial and the terrestrial. The first four have to do with our respect for God. No other gods before me. Don't take my name in vain. No idols, no raven images, and keep the Sabbath day. So we are reverencing God instead of offending him all the time. That's just going from the telestial to the terrestrial. And then the last six have to do with our relationship with other people. Honor your father and mother. Don't kill. Don't commit adultery.

Don't steal. Don't lie. Don't covet. So those things make us kind of like easier to live with on the planet. We're no longer offending God and our neighbor all the time, but they don't celestialize. That's just the foundation of celestial law. And you have to, it's kind of a bare minimum requirement. In some respects, our temple recommends are also just mostly about being terrestrial, although they do remind us of the celestial potential that

exists in our obedience to covenant in terms of how are we feeling about our relationship to God, how strong is our testimony of the atonement, and all of those wonderful things that remind us about how we can take this to another level. But frankly, if we are at least at a terrestrial level, we're not going to offend the spirit in the temple because we're not involved in these destructive behaviors or attitudes toward God or toward our fellow men. But that's just the beginning. I remember hearing Truman Madsen once, one of his daughters was a good friend of mine in high school, and we were in his home and he was talking about how, I think it was Chauncey Riddle that was his stake president. And when he went in to get his temple recommend signed by his stake presidency member, it was Chauncey Riddle. And they were chatting. And Chauncey said,

so do you want the questions in the book or do you want my questions? Truman said, I was feeling pretty good about myself that day. So I said, give me your questions. Give me the hard ones. Give me the AP questions, AP Temple Recommend. They were celestial questions. That was the difference. The only ones I remember, and actually I had a chance to ask Brother Madsen about this later on in his life, and he didn't remember two all either, but I remembered a couple of them. And he said, yeah, that's right. Those were two of them. But it was one of them was, are you living your life in such a way that at least one of the gifts of the Spirit is manifested

daily through you? Talking about like, are we really being sanctified by the power of the Holy Ghost and then being able to access those powers of heaven and be a light through us that lifts and blesses and does the work of the Savior. A nice reminder that we're just starting out when we are obedient to commandments. And if we're still sinning in acts of commission or sins of commission, and we're offending the spirit that we really need to get ourselves out of that telestial realm if we have a hope of heaven. And then once in the terrestrial, we don't want to be complacent.

These are honorable men and women of the earth. You can make it into the millennium because you don't cause trouble, but you won't make it out of the millennium into anything but a terrestrial kingdom if you don't hunger and thirst after righteousness. So what is he doing here? He's telling them, okay, I offered you this from Sinai and you rejected it. I'm offering it to you again. This is celestial law. I'm not just talking about that thou shalt and that thou shalt nots. I'm talking about how you can be integrated, how you can be sanctified by the Holy Spirit to come to a higher, holier way, which is what President Nelson has

invited us to consider again. And all the prophets have invited this. You can be higher and holier. You might be pretty good people. You might not be causing a lot of trouble. I hope that's true of all of us. But there's something more. There's something that helps us conform to the image of the Son, Christ himself. Where's that? Romans 8, that we can conform to the image of Christ. And it's the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost that does that. And he is giving us a vision of that in the Sermon on the Mount. So this is like message, you know, that started in Sinai, was rejected. Okay, we'll have to go with basic terrestrial stuff to try to keep you from

destroying yourselves at the terrestrial level. But now I'm offering you this again, the higher law, and you can become something much more than obedient and compliant. You can become like the Savior himself, but that requires this change of heart. And that's what we see here. Remember, I mean, the Savior says that. It has been said of all time, don't murder. And I'm saying, don't even be angry. You see the difference? To not murder gets us solidly terrestrial, but to not be angry, now we're talking celestial stuff. We're talking about a change of heart. So we're not just clenching our teeth and biting our tongues, but we are changing our hearts through the power of the Spirit. And that is the role of the Holy Ghost, one of his great roles. So I think that that's really important to see in this Sermon

on the Mount and so many of the messages. But here it is, this huge sermon that is just loaded with celestial living. He's saying, you are capable of becoming like God. Don't get complacent. Don't stay at a terrestrial level where you're just not a big problem anymore to the planet. We can do something higher and something holier. It's exciting to see this shift. Now, let me tell you, a lot of people reject it. We were once with our son. One of our sons did Columbia Law School. We'd go out there and visit every once in a while. It was always wonderful to see that place. And we were in church with him occasionally and his wife and

their little kids. Anyway, there was a teacher once teaching on the Sermon on the Mount that Sunday. And she was teaching religion at one of the local colleges or whatever. And she got to that part about, I say, don't even be angry with your brother. And she just kind of like totally blew it off. She was like, we know that's not really possible. She said, everybody gets angry. So I think this is sort of metaphorical and just like try to be nice, but he doesn't really expect us not to get angry.

You're like, wow, how sad is that? We're starving to death in the banquet hall when we say stuff like that, because we are capable of a higher, holier life. And let me tell you as a counselor, how destructive anger is. Like you didn't know that. Anger destroys love. So in some respects, we're not even talking terrestrial. If it's really unharnessed anger, it destroys. And God is saying, don't just stop at the outward manifestation of anger, which is murder or injury

to your neighbor, but like, let's go to the core. Let's root that out of our hearts. Let the spirit change us. Now it starts with that terrestrial compliance and we stop saying nasty things to people or being explosive in our tempers, but we can do more if we seek it. Now we have to ask, knock, seek, which is in our chapters today, that amazing and repeated message. Boyd K. Packer referred to that in his book, Teach Diligently, as perhaps the most repeated of all gospel admonitions was to knock, to seek, to ask. He wants us to come to him so that he can help us become higher and holier. And we have to involve him in that process. This is not something I can

sit in my little corner and, you know, I'm going to be better if it kills me. I mean, it will probably kill me if that's my approach. You're better if it kills me. I mean, it will probably kill me if that's my approach. You better if it kills me. I'm going to yield myself to the process of the Spirit, which, by the way, is not going to help us be sanctified if we're not trying to be, and I use this term all the time in my podcast, boringly consistent in our obedience. Boringly consistent. I mean, it's like God needs to set his watch on our obedience. He can turn his back on us and know that we are obedient.

We're not looking to have secret sins if nobody's watching or in our closets. We are really becoming boringly consistent. It is at that point that we go, we ask, we seek, we knock for the Holy Ghost to come and sanctify us. And as we petition the Lord, and in fact, in the DNC, one of the most often repeated admonitions is to the saints to sanctify themselves. So here it is. Christ is giving us the Sermon on the Mount to teach us a higher, holier, sanctified way

to live, which is the difference between the terrestrial and the celestial kingdom. He's not kidding when he says he wants us to be like him. And that he will facilitate. He doesn't expect us to invent that out of a whole cloth. He has marked the path and led the way and he has endowed us with the Holy Ghost if we are baptized and confirmed as members of the church. And that power is what can bring us to that higher and holier being. That's the integration of the heart with the behavior. I'm no longer just doing the right thing

because I don't want to do the wrong thing, but I'm doing the right thing because I am becoming like the savior. Now, some people have said over the years, and I have to make a little note here that they'll say things like, well, if you're not going to do the right thing for the right reason, just don't do it at all.

And I couldn't disagree with that more. I'm like, the alternative is doing the wrong thing. And that's telestial. So let's not go there. How about we stop doing the wrong thing. But we don't expect that we're going to go from zero to 60 in three seconds, we get to that boringly consistent terrestrial safe zone, where we're not offending the spirit. And we have the right then to invite the spirit into our lives to help us line upon line, precept upon precept, become higher and holier. Now, sometimes people debate whether or not it's an event or a process to be sanctified.

And I'm not going to try to answer that for everybody. But I think that what the scriptures demonstrate most of the time is that it's a process. Although occasionally there are some remarkable events where it seems to happen in that moment that somebody is sanctified. But again, they would have had to do all the trench work because God honors our agency and people are not doing the work that qualifies them for that spiritual happening. Then it's not like, okay, I just decided to sanctify this person because they asked. No, we have to prepare. We have to prepare ourselves. Okay, so that's what I think is going on in the Sermon on the Mount. And then what I saw is that in each of these chapters, and this was kind of new for me

because although I've read these chapters many times, as we all do, I had not seen this quite this way before. So I'm really grateful to the Spirit that continues to teach us new ways to look at things and hopefully gain another perspective or deeper understandings. I think that there are two themes here, one for chapter six and one for chapter seven, with lots of examples of those themes. And because there are so many great truth statements in these chapters, I hadn't really seen that before, but here's what I think, and then we can see what we do with it, okay? I think that the theme of chapter six emerges in verse 24. No man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the

one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. I think that's what this whole chapter is about. And I think he's going to give us lots of examples of places where we might try to serve both God and mammon. And he's saying, don't do it. Don't do it. Because again, at the terrestrial level, you might still have a lot of competing desires in your life. You might still be motivated by some different things. But if you want to be higher and holier, you choose me. And you choose me alone.

There are no other gods that you can worship, even in sort of slightly human terrestrial ways where you're not actually sacrificing to idols and you're not maybe defiling yourself in worship of idols. But no, I want your whole heart now. We're going to take this to another level. I want all of it. God doesn't settle for just the leftovers of our hearts after we're done worshiping

at all these other important things to us, mammon, the world. So he's like, come on, let's get out of Babylon completely and come into Zion. So what does he say? Do not your alms before men. Look at the competition there. Who are you looking to for reward? God or mammon? God or the world? Who are you trying to please? Choose, because you can't serve two masters, only one. So are you trying to get your recognition from the world, from other people? All right, have at it. You have your reward, but don't come to me because I want your whole heart and I won't take half.

That's what the message of this is. And he says that on several different little examples here then. And of course, he mentions, as you gave us a little preview there, Hank, he talks about the hypocrites because there are plenty of hypocrites who seem to use gospel principles or gospel behaviors or even gospel observance to get their rewards from mammon or from the world or from men or from church members and not from God. And he's like, I'm done with that. Like, if you want what I have to offer you, I want your whole heart.

You stop trying to impress other people with your prayers, with your fasting, with your alms. Who are you doing this for? Look at your heart and see if the spirit can integrate that heart with your behavior. These people are doing alms. They're praying. They're fasting. That people are doing alms. They're praying. They're fasting. That's good terrestrial stuff. And it's not enough if we want the kingdom of God at the highest level.

I like how in chapter six, I think three times we get this kind of postscript to some of the things the Lord is saying, thy father, which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. And yeah, doing things for others, that's different. I have always thought we call it a higher law. When I read this, I think it's kind of an inner law too. That's what it is. That integration of the heart with our behavior. Not just higher, it's inside because it's not outward and observable. When you're doing things to be seen, yeah, that's different. So do things that only your father can see and he'll reward the openly. I love that. I did. It's repeated three times. He does. He really wants to make his point. Who are you trying to serve?

And who are you seeking those rewards from? So sociologically, we talk about reference groups, reference groups. I mean, we have membership groups that we are a part of, like a family. I'm a member of my family. I'm a member of the church. I'm a member of a friend circle, or it could be a club, or it could be a work set of colleagues. We're members of different groups. But then the reference group is the group to which we refer for approval. Who do I look to for my approval to know if I'm doing what's right? Whose opinion do I care about? And that's what God's saying. I want to be your reference group and get rid of the others. Just get rid of them. Look to me and do these things for love of me. And you're right, John, it's an internal yielding of our hearts to worshiping

God alone and not letting these other voices interfere or get in the way of our worship of God and our yielding and submitting to him because of our love and desire to be like him. So let me just mention how challenging this can be. I had this wonderful opportunity one year when I was doing adult religion in Vegas. I chose my own course and I decided to teach on the Latter-day Prophets that year. So I read a ton. And I mean, I had studied the prophets before, but not at that depth because I had opportunity to go and delve a little deeper into each Latter-day Prophet. I think President Hinckley was a prophet there. so we stopped with him at the end of the course. But I was fascinated by how many of these amazing men

struggled with not seeking recognition from the world. And they wrote about it sometimes in their writings or talked about it. And I thought, look at that. These are men who are trying to live a higher, holier, celestial law. And this is something that they are so aware of because it can creep up and grab the unwary foot in just a heartbeat and drag it down. So remember, there's some funny stories

about this. Like, well, remember, I think it was President Hinckley who talked about this. Most of us have heard this, how after he was called to be an apostle, one of his brethren came and said something like, you know, the people of this church love their leaders. You're going to hear a lot of nice things about you. Don't believe them. Do you remember that? Don't believe them. Yeah. I remember Sherry Dew talking about trying to write his biography and bringing him like, I don't know, manuscript or something. And he said, Gordon Hinckley, Gordon Hinckley, I'm sick to death of reading about Gordon Hinckley. Adulation is poison or something. There's Sherry going, but it's your biography. Who am I supposed to write about here? It is a wonderful story. And so he was really

taking that counsel. Don't believe all those things. Don't focus on those things. I'm not trying to impress anybody. I just want to please God. I just want to please the Lord. That's my focus. I have only one master because you can only serve one. And I will not serve the world. I won't even serve the members of the church in terms of trying to cultivate their adoration or recognition or praise. No, that is poison. If I get caught in that and see, that's what the hypocrites did. That's what the Pharisees did. They wanted to have that praise of men.

And God is like, I'm done with you. I'm done. That's the master you've chosen to serve. So even in our good works, we can get it completely wrong. If we're serving the wrong master, because we are getting our ego stroked and God's like, that's not what this is about. And look how quickly we do this in the church. I mean, come on, we have this amazing gospel and then we have Mormon cultural tradition, which sometimes is

like a true ball and chain. We get into these kind of patterns in our culture, like, oh, what callings have you had? Or we introduce ourselves by our professions or our callings. It comes up quickly in the conversation or which apostle is a friend of ours or is in our ward in our neighbor and we have dinner with them regularly. Or we name drop. We talk about it's that ever-present trap for the unwary foot. Like I said, we can fall into it so easily, but we are not serving God. We are serving a different master. And he's like, if you want to be celestial, this has to end. You need to look to me. I am your reference group. You can't serve both. Another story was one that in that course that I read about President Kimball,

this was pretty interesting. When he was called into the 12th, he was in Arizona, Thatcher, wasn't it? And he was a businessman there. And they were called to, of course, move to Salt Lake for him to fulfill this new colony quorum. Camilla had to take the children a little earlier than President Kimball went. Then Elder Kimball was going to go because they had to start school. So they packed up and everything and the community had a big farewell party before Camilla took the kids on the train. And then President Kimball had to stay and finish up some business affairs before he could leave. And he went to the train station to take it to Salt Lake and nobody was there. No brass band, no balloons, no loving neighborhood or community saying goodbye to him. And he felt a pang that he talked about then in a letter. I think he wrote this to Camilla or in his journal,

I forget, but he actually wrote these words himself. And he said, why am I still wanting to have the praise of men? Even in such a simple way, he was very sensitive to how important this message is in chapter six of Matthew. You can only serve one master, only one. A man's reach should exceed his grasp, else what's the heaven for? I mean, all of us live beneath our privilege. We are flawed. We're human. We're imperfect, we're still in the journey. Without Jesus Christ, we're all going to hell. So we have to, I mean, if we desire, we want to close that gap. Now, let me mention, I should have mentioned first that the space between those two lines, we usually refer to as cognitive dissonance or noise in the system. The fingernails on the

chalkboard that get to us when it's like, I should do better. I know better and I'm not doing as well as I know. Divine discontent. Divine discontent is another word for that. That cognitive dissonance, divine discontent. So it's noise in the system that makes us uncomfortable. And that can be a really good thing if we respond correctly. But there are two ways that people typically respond, sociologically speaking. And this is what my parents would talk about. The one classic way is to, and the best way, is to close the gap by moving upward. Again, line upon line in our imperfect way, we rise a little, always take a step back, but hopefully we continue and whatever.

And eventually we close that gap more and more. And again, through the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost, we can close it all the way, which is wonderful if we persist and become qualified for that great gift of sanctifying power. But that stops the cognitive dissonance. I mean, it doesn't stop it completely until we're done, but it really tones it down so that we don't feel that discontent. We realize I am heeding the call of my master to follow him. And he is helping me along that way

and making it possible. And he has marked the path and led the way. I can do this by following him. It is possible. There's a great hope in it. And that creates this great joy and positive energy in my life that means that I don't feel that nasty feeling of like, oh, I'm just not what I should be. Because even though I'm not finished, I'm on my way. And I trust that Christ will help me complete the path because I am firmly on that path. But there's another way to close the gap and to stop the cognitive dissonance. And that is to dumb down the law, to dumb down the ideals. To bring the law down. Yeah.

That's, it's like the being angry thing. Well, that can't be it. Exactly. That's exactly what she's doing. Oh, let's get that off the plate because that makes us uncomfortable. Do we have any comfortable laws? I don't think he meant that. And how many times do we do that?

Well, I don't think the Lord cares that much about what I do on the Sabbath day. I mean, I don't think this is a big deal. I mean, it could be so much worse. I went to church. Or most of the time I watch good movies, but, you know, I don't think he minds once in a while if I watch something really awful or whatever it is. Every commandment has its areas where we can try to dumb down, water down, kind of change the law to more suit our current behavior so that instead of- Or we can reach for it. Or we can reach for it. Now, I'm going to say this, but I really want to first do a disclaimer.

We love being in Utah. It was a good move. Tricky move in some ways. Actually, God used it to teach us a lot of lessons, but it's good. There's so many wonderful opportunities here. It's great to be with so many saints. But there are some little challenges. I think we all know, again, this Pioneer Corridor, this Wasatch Front Church has some interesting challenges. The Brethren have reminded us of some times, and certainly these kinds of things can help to remind us of. And I guess all of that is to say that I am not trying to be down on any place where the saints seem to be gathered in large numbers. But it was when we lived in a place that was where the saints gathered in large numbers that I saw a third part to that sociological model that I had.

And my parents never talked about, but it became evident to me here. And that was a third way to stop the cognitive dissonance. And like I said, the sociologists don't talk about this, but Christ does. And he talks about it right here in Matthew 6. It's ramping up our public zealousness, ramping up our public observances, trying to look more Christian and be more fervent in our observances in ways that can be observed. Can be seen. That's very Matthew 6.

That's the way it starts. And then at the same time, not lifting our behavior. Our private life. Yes. And in fact, that very fact that we are trying to appear to be something unto men and not really trying to close the gap through following Christ and becoming higher and holier, what actually happens is our behavior deteriorates and we end up having these secret lives, these secret sins. But we don't want anyone to know about it. And in public, we are trumpeting our alms or our prayers or our testimonies or our callings. We are so fervent and righteous

in public. And then we don't really do much about closing that gap at all. And so the gap grows bigger and those are the hypocrites. Those are the Pharisees. That's what Christ was saying. And as we know, and I know President Oaks said this in a speech once, that Christ reserved his harshest criticisms for the Pharisees because they were trying to dismiss that cognitive dissonance by shouting it down, by trumpeting their good works, trumpeting their testimonies, acting more fervent in all their observances of the gospel and trying to look holier in public while inside they were like dead men's bones. Yeah. And you can see why they use the word hypocrite because in Greek, it means actor, pretender. And I guess what you're saying, the problem is when you're

comfortable with that. If you're uncomfortable with the dissonance, then you know, I got to do inside here. I got to do better. But if you get comfortable with the idea of I'll show this on the outside, but keep doing this on the inside. If you're comfortable with that, that's the problem. You descend pretty rapidly. talking about this tribute that Hiram Smith gets in section 124, where the Lord says, I, the Lord, love Hiram because of the integrity of his heart and because he loveth that which is right before me. And I can remember seeing, if you can see my hands, those of you that are watching, somebody said once that integrity is making your behavior come up to the level of your understanding.

And that was a good definition of integrity. And here's Hiram who understood here and he was so close to living exactly there. And so you called it cognitive dissonance, the space in between there. This is where I ought to be. This is where I am. Yeah. And it should be, like you say, it should be uncomfortable. But like Alma tells Corianton, don't let these other things trouble you. Only let your sins or that distance trouble you with that trouble that brings you down into repentance. Like close the gap, close the gap so that you can have a greater peace and confidence and hope in Christ. He's the one through whose power and atoning sacrifice we are even enabled to close that

gap. It even becomes a possibility. And then the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost can complete that task of integration where our heart is completely conformed to our behavior. Yes, no gap. So that is the goal. And yet, how sad that here we see those three things where it's like, well, some people just dumbed down the law.

Like, oh, I don't think he really meant not to get angry. I don't think this is that immodest. I'm not uncomfortable anymore. That's right. I don't think you have to wear your garments all the time. Like, I mean, all of those things are closing the gap the wrong way. And then of course, then there's the scary one that Christ talks about that are the Pharisees, where you are so fixed on serving your public face, your public persona. Reputation. Your reputation that you are seeking the honors of men and Christ condemns that in the harshest

terms. You are a hypocrite because you're not even closing the gap at all. You just want people to think that you have. It's a facade. That's the two masters thing then. Yeah. That you've been talking about. And it's throughout this whole thing.

Now we have to mention a couple of things about prayer because I think this is just so cool. Well, first of all, can we just say something about vain repetitions? I think we all know that, you know, we shouldn't say the same prayer all the time and it should be meaningful, not meaningless and so on. And of course we are sensitive to little children praying, but they can learn this pretty soon. In fact, when my kids were little, I did make this one point. I know I made lots of points, but here's one that I made. I said, please, let's just do me this favor that whenever you're asked to bless the refreshments, that you don't say that they

can nourish and strengthen our body. Will you just give me that much? We're grateful. Just say we're grateful. I know. We're grateful for those who prepared it. Help us to enjoy them as we visit with each other and share a moment of fellowship. For Pete's sake. But you would get caught in these vain repetitions that are so prevalent in our culture again. And we can do better. God is like, come on. Can we have some meaning? I mean, if you really want to make meaning, say like, and Lord, please take the calories out.

Because that's what we're really hoping for. Yeah. But at any rate, it is important that we think about that. Now, I'm kind of in conjunction with this idea of not saying all these big prayers to be seen of men. And I remember that Bruce R. McConkie once said that it shouldn't take more than, what did he say, like two and a half minutes to open any meeting and 30 seconds to close it. That's a good reminder. That's a good reminder and sometimes you can kind of tell who wanted to give a speech but only was asked to give a prayer because exactly their prayer kind of becomes a speech you're like oh i think maybe they wanted to have a chance to share a little bit more of a message and it's but that wasn't really the right place for it and i don't mean that we should be

timing each other's prayers please don't do that please don't time the right place for it. And I don't mean that we should be timing each other's prayers. Please don't do that. Please don't time the brethren when they pray. But I think it's just a good reminder. Like, let's understand the meaning of prayer. And it is to acknowledge our dependency on the Lord and our desire to invite him into our lives. And I love that the Lord's Prayer here, which is a beautiful piece, and we could spend hours on it, which we're not going to do today.

But I do want to mention this line that I think is so important just before that begins. In verse eight, for your father knoweth what things ye have need of before ye ask him. After this manner, therefore pray ye. In other words, don't think you have to bring a grocery list to God or your entire wishlist or everybody that you love and care about that you are hoping he will bless and be mindful of. This can become burdensome and frankly, a little OCD and people get kind of a little neurotic about it. I actually had a client once who told me that she had called every temple that was open in the world. And I think it was before we had cell phones so that it would have cost her some decent long distant money to put a loved one's name on the prayer rolls of every temple. She doesn't want it missed. I mean, my heart, you know, kind of broke for her because I'm like, oh, obviously you care so much about this person and you desire so fervently that the Lord will be mindful of this person and bless them. But I mean, is this kind of like trying to stuff the ballot box?

I mean, the Lord doesn't require that we become somewhat superstitious about like, did I mention? Oh, no, I forgot to mention this friend or this family member or this child. I don't think I and the Lord won't know. Oh, no, I you know, now I'm responsible if they're not blessed. If I know it's my fault. I didn't pray for that person. I forgot I or I got busy or I couldn't stay awake after I was trying to go through my whole list. It's kind of like, really? I mean, can we just understand the Lord for who he is and how good and merciful and gracious God is and that he is omniscient. He already knows what we need. Now the Bible dictionary is very clear on this. And it says that God does require that we pray. He wants to hear from us. He wants us to invite him into our lives because he will not come where he's not invited. Period. He never comes in with a brass band. That's Satan. God

comes when we open the door, we've all seen that picture without the door. And yes, he knows what we need. We need to invite him in and invite that blessing. And basically, that's what this simple prayer style does. We give glory to God. We praise him. We acknowledge his magnificence. There's a little nod here to the second coming by kingdom come, that second coming stuff. And boy, do we want to pray that prayer these days. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, that's millennial stuff, because it's not, his will is not currently being done on earth as it is in heaven, but it will be during the millennium. So some nice little gems here, but basically, there's a pretty blanket statement

here. Give us this day our daily bread. You know what we need. I'm inviting that into my life. I want your blessing, and remember that in the Bible dictionary, it says some blessings are reserved for us if we are deserving and righteous and qualify for those blessings, but are contingent upon our asking for them. And again, not in a superstitious way where I have to, oh, if I can't think of what God wants to give me, then I'm not going to get it. But it's inviting him into our lives and asking that we are aligning, that he help us align our lives with his, that we walk together through this world, that we don't walk alone. We've invited him in. We welcome his presence. We try to live in such

a way as to be worthy of it. And that opens the door. And that's why Alma talks about, well, on Amulek, of course, pray over your flocks and fields and everything like that, but not by name, okay? You don't have to name all the flocks or all the business concerns or everybody you know that's sick. Let's just keep it. Just invite the Lord. Invite the Lord and trust him. Again, it's not a game he's playing with us. He's not saying, oh, you missed that hoop. So no blessings for that person. Let's not go there. And sometimes we're tempted to. You quoted this, Lily.

Prayer is the act by which the will of the father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. So we can align ourselves with God. If we see prayer as a way to be still and align ourselves with God, I think that's what we're after here. Not long, drawn-out prayers. I underlined the word therefore in my verse 9 and pointed an arrow to verse 8. I really like that. Heavenly Father knows what you need. Therefore, pray like this.

That's really nice. Elder David E. Sorenson, that's a name that should be familiar to our listeners. Right, Hank? David Eugene Sorenson was a general authority. Passed away in 2014. His wife, Verla, is still very much alive and has a lot of energy, which we love. He's our sponsor.

And so is his wife, Verla. Yes. And in the April conference of 1993, he talked, I think, about this verse. He said, I believe that our Heavenly Father teaches us to pray because the very act of praying will improve us. We worship our Father in heaven as all-knowing and all-powerful, surely as our Creator. He knows our cares, our worries, our joys, our struggles without our informing Him. The reason our Heavenly Father asks us to pray cannot be that we are able to tell him something he does not already know. Rather, the reason he asks us to pray is that the process of learning to communicate effectively with him

will shape and change our lives. And also, I wanted to refer to, I have this in my margin next to Matthew 6, 8, is Romans 8, 26. Lily, you'll love this. Likewise, the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Isn't that a great verse? Have you ever wanted to pray and just, ugh, groanings which cannot be uttered. Isn't that a great verse? Have you ever wanted to pray and just, groanings which cannot be uttered?

Because he knows. That's right. He knew what I needed in those moments. And I think that sometimes those are just kind of those silent internal prayers where our heart reaches out and the Lord completely understands. And it is good to utter the words when we can, but this is not about being fearful or superstitious. And that's the little place where I see some people kind of start to

slide. It's something that can be so easily remedied if we remember who he is and who he has told us we are to him. Honestly, to kind of wrap up chapter six, not that there aren't a lot of really great little statements in here that are worthy of a lot of study. And I hope people have enjoyed this time to reflect on these words again and discuss them in their families and ponder and pray about them. But I do want to just mention quickly, along the lines of our theme, that you cannot serve two masters, of course, it's in this chapter that Christ tells us to lay not up for yourselves treasure on earth, which is verse 19, where moth and dust doth corrupt and where thieves break through and steal. Same message, but lay up for yourself

treasures in heaven. In other words, forget mammon and come to me, come to me with your whole heart. And then I do want to mention something very personal that I'm indebted to this chapter for in my own life on one occasion. But to set that up, I'm going to say that the rest of the message here of chapter six, after verse 24, where he says, no man can serve two masters, so choose me. Then he basically tells us, I will choose you. If you choose me, then you are chosen by me. And this is what the chosen people are. The chosen people are people who choose God. Remember, that's what John the Baptist said just a little while ago about God can raise up from these stones, children unto Abraham. Don't think your inheritance is going to get you into the kingdom. It's your choosing God,

not serving the world, not serving vain recognition or whatever, anything else. You put your treasure here and you become my treasure. I will choose you because you have chosen me. And then he tells these beautiful things, which I have to say, I recognize it in a lot of commentaries or some of the teachings that it tells us these next verses are specifically for the apostles that he's sending out to preach the gospel. But I'm going to suggest something a little different from that as well, Not disagreeing with what they're saying, but I want to add another layer. So, because what does he say? Then take no thought for your life. What you shall eat,

what you shall drink, nor yet for your body, what you shall put on is not life more than meat and the body than raiment. Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns, yet your heavenly father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Now, we were talking about Matthew 10, which is to come, and I do want to say that there is one of my, I have so many favorite scriptures, but one of them is in Matthew 10, where God says this beautiful thing, fear not them that can destroy the body. And you're like, wait, what was that again? Do you know what they can do to my body? I mean, people do terrible things to other people's bodies. But he says, I've got it covered. Not a hair of your head will be lost.

Stop worrying about temporal things. I have you eternally. And I have already performed the resurrection that broke the bands of death and hell and the grave. And you don't ever have to worry about that again. If that's the worst that can happen to you, you have no problems. If you have chosen me, stop being afraid. Now look at what happened during COVID-19. People were so terrified of death. And you know why? Because they forget God and they don't trust him and they don't believe in the resurrection anymore. Life becomes much more important than God is telling us it needs to be. Not that we should be careless about our lives. Not that we should be cavalier about this stewardship.

We should take care of ourselves. Nevertheless, we should not be afraid of the inevitability of death. And we should recognize God's got it covered. I have chosen you. If you have chosen me, that is not a problem. Stop governing your life by fear. Fear is a lousy way to live. And it makes us make stupid decisions when we make them fearfully. So he's saying, don't be afraid of that. And then he goes on and he says, fear only them that can destroy both the body and the soul in hell. Now, when I taught at BYU, I'd ask my students, so who can do that? And their first answer always shouted out was Satan.

And I'd say, think again. And then they would think for a moment and somebody would always say, it's us. I said, that's right. Satan has no power over us that we don't grant him. And how do we grant power to Satan? By not repenting. God is so generous. It's not even sin that we need't grant him. And how do we grant power to Satan? By not repenting. God is so generous. It's not even sin that we need to be afraid of. It's unrepented sin. I think how

generous the plan is. I know you're going to make mistakes. That is not your defeat. That's why repentance is up front, the second principle of the gospel. Say nothing but repentance unto this generation, because that's the only thing that we should be afraid of is unrepented sin. Let the rest of it go. And you have total control of whether or not you repent. You don't have to stay in your sins. There are lots of people who can help you along the way.

Christ, first and foremost, the enabling power of the atonement. We have all kinds of structures around us, loved people, loved leaders and resources around us that can help us repent. And we can use them so that we don't have to be afraid of anything but our own unrepented sin, which we have total control over. It's such a generous plan. God is so kind. And then he says this beautiful thing. He says, anyway, it makes me cry every time I say these words, are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And he's just talked here about the fowls of the air, right? I love these words. I actually asked my grandchildren to memorize them for a family reunion quite a few years back.

We should probably do it again so that they'll be reminded. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing, and yet not one shall fall without my father. Fear not, therefore, thou art worth many sparrows. That is so incredibly tender. We need to trust it. We need to trust God more than we do. We need to be unafraid. If we have chosen him, he has chosen us, and he has made us incredible promises about his love. These cheap little homely two for a penny birds, God loves them. And he tells us, you are worth many sparrows. I mean, maybe on a good day, two or three, but at least we are worth more than these plain homely birds. Just this is one of my quirks. I take pictures of

sparrows because they remind me of God's love. And every time I see one of these homely two-for-a-penny birds, I feel the love of my Heavenly Father in such great abundance. And I want everybody to feel that because it's a cold planet. And if we don't reach for that love and understand it and practice feeling it, it's a colder planet than it should be. Because his love surrounds us, but sometimes we don't feel it. Sometimes we kind of shut it out. We forget. We get caught in the negative.

We're hurt. But it's there. His abundant love is everywhere. Watch for sparrows. I have some really beautiful pictures of sparrows. Some of them are blurry because they move pretty fast, but I have some really beautiful pictures. I've taken them all over the world, by the way, when we travel.

I'm always looking for sparrows because I want to feel, again, my father's love. A dear friend gave me a little clay sparrow that is on my desk. And I look at it every day when I'm there and I feel loved. We can feel the love of God more than we do. Remember the sparrows. He loves us even more. That's so sweet. God is so kind to us.

Okay, I'm going to go on. Then he says, well, I'm going to skip to verse 28. Back in Matthew 6. And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They toil not, neither do they spin. Lily, I thought we have to hit this verse. It's very rare that we have the first name of our guest in the text.

That's true. I wasn't really thinking that right now, but I do love this verse. But that is so beautiful. Of course, the tab choir sings that gorgeous rendition of this great scripture. So here's my personal story. And I'm going to try to make it quick, which as you know, is very difficult for me. We want to hear it. We were in Las Vegas and we were building a home. God had directed me very firmly to go back and do my master's program. And I did. And my family stepped up in amazing ways. My husband stepped up in amazing ways. And God was kind and made it possible.

And we all worked really hard. It was pretty grueling. And then after the second year, I mean, I had to do my master's thesis. And I had this really strong impression that I needed to do the master's thesis during the Christmas break, which nobody was doing. They were just going to take the time off and enjoy and then get back to it and do it in the spring semester and defend. But I felt this really strong feeling.

And back then, we didn't have it all online. and then get back to it and do it in the spring semester and defend. But I felt this really strong feeling. And back then we didn't have it all online. So we were the last ones to leave the library at UNLV before they closed for the holiday because they were not going to be open all day. And all my kids, my older kids were going into the stacks because I'm finding these abstracts and saying, I need this one. I need this one. I need this one. And then we had two copy machines commandeered and the kids are copying and some are getting

these things and Chris is helping. They've got a little kids. You didn't have Google Scholar available to you? Things are a little easier now than they used to be. We left the library. Like I said, we were the very last people to leave. My entire family, eight kids, were carrying these stacks of articles that I'm going to use. And sure enough, after Christmas, I really hit it hard and I wrote my thesis. So I was ready to defend. And the earliest time we could was early February. I think there was one kid who did it the day before I did. And then I was like the second, on the second day possible.

I defended and I was done with my master's program. And I didn't know why the Lord had prompted me with such a strong urgency to get it done so quickly. But two weeks later, I found out because I discovered that the guy that was building our home, whose references I had scrupulously checked, he gave me a whole list of references, including bank managers, people that he'd worked with before, whatever, because his plan was a little bit unusual. And I called every single one and got nothing but the highest recommendations of his honesty and integrity

in his work. So we had done our due diligence. And you know what? You can still get mugged. He started taking money out of our loan and not paying the subs. To the tune of about the amount that Chris earned in one year. So a whole year's income for our family was lost. And those subs had not been paid. And our house was progressing.

But it was horrible. I was the one who discovered it and it was devastating because we didn't know if we could recover. And I won't go into all the details. It was a trial that lasted years before we knew we would be okay. And we had our oldest child was on a mission. Our second one was ready to go to BYU the next year. We had six other kids beyond that, and they all had needs. We had tried to live worthy. We had

done our due diligence in checking this guy's references, and he was not dicey. I didn't check so scrupulously because he had a bad reputation at all. It was just because I wanted to be extra careful, and we didn't know him previously, so I just did what they all said to do and you can still get mugged. So it was awful. It was awful. The thought of declaring bankruptcy was horrific to us. We didn't even want to consider it, but we had to think that there might be a point at which we would have to do that. At which point I thought, I will keep a scrupulous account of everybody, including the bankruptcy, and I will pay them back as we're able. But I just didn't know how we were going to stay afloat. We were in a rental at the time. We're not in our old home that had lots of space. So we're crammed into this rental that doesn't really meet our needs, that has no

backyard at all. It was devastating. And I sometimes felt flooded with fear. I mean, it was like a tsunami. It would just catch me at these moments as I went about my busy life, and it would just sweep over me, and I would be terrified of what was going to happen. And I could make a really good circumstantial case. I emphasize the words circumstantial case for abandonment, because we had tried to be good, and we were trying to live worthy of our temple recommends and accepting callings, and I had followed that strong admonition of the Lord to go back to school. And we had sacrificed to do that.

And yet now this is happening to us. You know, we could have said like, wow, why has the Lord abandoned us? But I know those cases are always circumstantial because the Lord does not abandon his people. That is not in his character. It's not who he is. So I knew that wasn't true, but I still couldn't stop sometimes those waves of fear until, and it wasn't too long into this horrible time that I remembered, of course, that faith and fear cannot coexist. And I mean, it sounds so simple, but it's hard to apply.

And this is how it felt to me. I understood a different dimension of the exercise of faith. I felt like the faith for some reason was on this side, the right brain, and the fear was on the left. Anyway, I felt like sometimes I had to reach in figuratively into my brain and take the faith. I had faith. We have faith. That's why we're members of the church. That's why we try to study the scriptures.

We have faith. But sometimes we don't use it to pull over the fear. And that's what I had to learn to do. I had to go in and take my faith and stretch it. And how else did I think it was going to grow? So I stretched my faith and I chose to believe the promises that God has made. I chose to believe. We were tithe payers. We had always been tithe payers. We had always given generous fast offerings. I chose to believe that the Lord would fulfill his promises. Now, I didn't know when. I didn't have to know when. I didn't know how. I didn't know how much. I didn't know what it would look like. Maybe we would have to limp for the rest of our lives or stay in a smaller home. I didn't know, but I knew the Lord would honor his promises

because he is a promise keeper. That's who he is. And I was not going to forget it. Not especially now when I needed to believe. So I chose faith and it conquered the fear. I'm not saying I didn't get those tsunamis that every once in a while would kind of like catch me by surprise, but I knew how to deal with them and I would cast them out and I would bring my faith, ever stronger faith forward. This truly is the exercise. It was like a physical exercise of faith and it works. It works. I don't remember.

I've not been able to Google this successfully, but I try every few years. But somebody, I thought it was Dallin Oaks, who said there are some kinds of faith that can only grow in the dark. When we can't see, that's exactly how he defines it. It's believing when you can't see. I could not see how we were going to survive. I could not see how God could reverse our fortunes and rescue us from this dire situation. And he did. So I had chosen to believe before I could see it. And my faith grew in ways that I would not have known were possible. We have to grow our faith in the dark, but fear is not the answer.

It is faith. It is faith in God. And he tells us, if you choose me, I have chosen you and I will take care of you. It may not look the way you want it to look. It may not be at the time that you want it because I'm going to stretch your faith while I can. If you'll let me, I'll help you grow that to proportions you didn't understand previously that will bless your life forever, eternally. But this is the chance. Cast out the fear. Replace it with faith.

Stretch our faith over this new fear, whatever it is, a problem with a child, a sickness, a terminal illness, whatever it is, financial troubles, worldly, all the troubles of life, spiritual concerns, stretch our fear. We can stretch our fear over our faith. We can exercise it. So a little postscript to this story that is so tender. God is amazing. And I am so grateful for how he works with me. During this miserable time, I was sitting in sacrament meeting on the stand behind the organ because I was leading the congregational music in those days. So I would lead the opening hymn and then lead the sacrament hymn, and then I would take the sacrament sitting behind the organ, and then I would go join my family and then come up later

to do the closing hymn. But I was up there during the sacrament time and I was praying and pleading with the Lord for a direction forward because here we were in the middle of this financial disaster. But my kids had needs. I had one kid that needed to go to the dentist. I had another kid who was wearing expired contact lenses. Another kid who needed shoes. And the list was constant and growing all the time and changing all the time. And I didn't know what to do because I'm like, can I just go out there and swipe a credit card that I'm not sure I'll ever pay off? It was too soon in the process to know what was going to happen. And yet my kids had needs and I didn't have the cash. Every penny had gone into this

house and we're trying to finish it. I had to take over the building of the house, learn lots of stuff because we couldn't afford a contractor now. And I had to wrestle with the bank that wanted to close the law. It was a nightmarish effort. I grew lots of muscles during that time, but here I was. Is it honest for me to go and buy these things that my children need? My daughter's eyes are on the line and my son's teeth and this other son's feet. I mean, what am I supposed to do? And as I was praying and reaching out to God for help on how to move forward, the thought came into my mind, the choir is singing today. Now that seemed relevant to nothing, but that was the thought that came. And we had a wonderful choir director, Lynette Oh my gosh, I love this lady. And she was great. And we always were singing beautiful music that

she found and taught us. So that thought comes in, the choir singing today. And I'm like, yeah. And then it's like, well, what is the choir singing? And I didn't know because it could have been any one of a few numbers that we would practice every week, but I was sitting right behind the organ and there was a manila folder on the organ with the choir music in it. So I reached up and I pulled down that folder and I opened it up. And this was before it became a big tabernacle choir album, but it was considered a Lewis. And I can't tell you what happened in me. Honestly, my first thought was, you're demanding. You really want me to believe. You really want me to stretch my faith even more than I have already. You want me to stretch it all the way home. You want me to doubt not and fear not.

And I went out and I bought the contacts and the shoes and took that kid to the dentist. We were not extravagant. We did not spend money for frivolous things. We were very careful, but I learned to trust the Lord at a level that I didn't know was possible. And he fulfilled his promises. We did not have to declare bankruptcy. I know some people have to. Our journeys are somewhat different, but we can always learn these lessons.

We were rescued. It took years. It took years before things were completely resolved. And we came out and we were preserved and our children were preserved. And I grew because I was in the dark. I share that story because I want the people to love these words and to believe them. Can we consider the lilies? They toil not, neither do they spin. Yet Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these. And if God so clothed the grasses of the field, how much more will he clothe the children that have chosen him, that he chooses, that he loves?

Wow, that was fantastic. Lily, that was beautiful. I want our listeners to notice a footnote here. In verse 25, therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life. But you've been talking about fear and anxiousness and worry. Look at footnote 25B. The word thought there, go down below, Greek for anxious concern. That's worry. And I came across something years ago in a strange source. I was looking at, you know, Dale Carnegie, the how to win friends and influence

people, right? He wrote another one called how to stop worrying and start living. And he pointed out something. The only thing I remember from this book is that he said that King James uses thought there. Look at verse 34. Therefore, take no thought for the moral, but all the other translations say worry. And I verified that. I thought, oh, because that didn't sound very President Monson. Tomorrow's here. Think about it. I mean, no, you're supposed to think about it, but you're not supposed to worry about it. And that was a flood of light for me. So, yeah, you got to think about tomorrow and you have to plan. We all do.

But anxious concern is a different thing than thought. And also you mentioned it, but I wanted to make sure we kind of underlined it a little bit, is that if you go to the Book of Mormon, you see that the Lord's talking to, you said it, Lily, to the apostles here. He's not saying to all of us, I don't worry about this or that. Just go to the park and hang out. No, we're supposed to, but you don't worry about it. That's the fear versus faith thing you were talking about. I think that is a good point. And I would say that God doesn't stretch us to these levels that are higher and holier

until we are solidly into self-reliance. The Lord does not want us to be slackers. He says, the idler shall not eat the bread of the laborer. So when I have heard people sometimes, not too often, but sometimes use these verses to justify laziness or indolence and say that don't do anything, the Lord will take care of it, and their families suffer and it's miserable when people do not do work that is before us, especially when a man won't support his family. Let's be honest that that is required of God. And of course, women sometimes help with that labor as needed, and we want our men to not be afraid of work, and we don't want our children to be afraid of work. But once we have secured that terrestrial self-reliance where we are obedient to the laws of work, then the Lord

wants to make us higher and holier. And sometimes that can only happen when our hard-working, obedient arms fail. When even our best efforts to do what is right are met with some kind of betrayal or sabotage, not because of our own sins, but because of the sins of others. And in those instances, this applies because it takes us to a higher, holier, celestial way, where we don't just trust in our own obedient arm, which frankly, as good as it is to have a hardworking, obedient arm, it is still the arm of flesh. And he wants us to repose all our trust in him. Once we have secured the terrestrial, again, you can't skip from the telestial. So if you're using this to justify indolence or sloth, shame on you and shame on us if that's what we're doing. But no, it is absolutely what you say. And that's why he could talk to the

apostles. They were already at at least a secure terrestrial level. And he's like, now when I send you out on the Lord's errand, I will provide. But that was a special circumstance. And I love your clarification because that is really essential. Please join us for part two of this podcast.