followHIM - Mosiah 4-6 Part 1 • Dr. Aaron Schade • April 29 - May 5 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Has one talk inspired you to change your life? Dr. Aaron Schade explores the vital importance of recording God's words, their power to transform a people, and how the Atonement of Jesus Christ cleanses and prepares a people.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18FRPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18ESYOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/zH_PwyEMROIALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast00:00 Part 1–Dr. Aaron Schade00:42 What to expect in this episode02:07 Introduction of Dr. Aaron Schade03:00 Has one talk inspired you to change your life?04:16 Mosiah 4:1 - What did the angel say?06:36 Background to Mosiah 407:04 Omni 1:23-24 - War and bloodshed09:20 Words of Mormon 1:13-18 - No more contention09:43 Mosiah 1:1 - How to find peace10:42 Omni 1:25-26 - Mosiah 4 - Inclusivity and record importance 15:02 Mormon 1:7 -  Faith and “wise purpose”18:16 Words of Mormon 1:12,16 Benjamin fights, contention causing apostasy 22:13  Mosiah 1-2 - Why Mosiah legitimizes his son Benjamin23:32 Mosiah 1:3 - John shares personal story of son losing journal26:38 Mosiah 1:3-4, 7 Authenticity and Joseph Smith’s poverty31:35 Mosiah 2 Treatise on leadership32:47 Mosiah 2:3-4 Burnt offerings, the sacrament, and love36:39 Mosiah 3:5-11 Purpose of sacrifices39:13 Tabernacle of clay and Jehovah is Jesus43:33 Mosiah 3:8-11 - Names of Jesus and sinning in ignorance50:20 Mosiah 4:2 - What is King Benjamin’s desired outcome?55:18 Dr. Schade shares personal story of prayer, revelation, and humility57:13 Mosiah 4:2 - “To cover” and a new creature in Christ59:12 Elder Bednar and President Oaks teach about having clean hands and a pure heart01:00:14 Mosiah 4:6 - God’s wisdom and long-suffering01:04:19 Mosiah 4:19 - Beggars, caring for the needy, and familial contention01:07:40 End of Part 1 - Dr. Aaron SchadeThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name's Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my mighty co-host, John, by the way, and our guest, Dr. Aaron Shade. John, we started King Benjamin last week. When we talk King Benjamin, what comes to mind? I love how King Benjamin doesn't act like what most of us would think of as a king. He gets up and he says, I'm no better than ye yourselves are, and I've done my best. He kind of treats it like a calling. And let me report my time with you, and let me talk to you about the most important thing. How are you doing with God? Are you viewing yourselves the way you really are? I love it, and it's interesting that we've divided King Benjamin's

speech and aftermath into two lessons. I'm looking forward to this second half. Yeah, I'm happy about that. John, I think you're right. I don't think you'd see King Benjamin taking the parking spot, the chariot spot closest to the tower. I think he'd be like, no, you park there. I'll go park in the back. John, like I mentioned, we're with Dr. Aaron Shade today. Such a great guy. Aaron, what are we looking forward to with these chapters in Mosiah? These are some of the greatest chapters because they challenge us to become something. As we look at this second part of a sermon that was given, the overall experience was

so powerful that it resulted in three years of peace. Can't even imagine the power of that type of sermon that changed so many lives, took a people that had experienced some really difficult times and brought them into a full communion with God. And for me, that's one of the gems of these chapters is the ability to overcome difficult circumstances and situations and really feel in the presence of God. There's something about hearing a message like this that heals the soul that Jacob called the word that heals the wounded soul. John, Dr. Shade hasn't been here in a bit, so can you give us

a brief bio before we get started? Yes, absolutely. Dr. Aaron Shade is a professor of ancient scripture at BYU. He teaches courses on religion and ancient Near Eastern languages, history, and archaeology. In fact, he is the co-director of the Herbet Atteroos excavation in Atteroos, Jordan. Did I even get close to that, Aaron? That was fantastic, yeah. Oh, good. He completed his graduate studies at the University of Toronto, Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations.

He has been a faculty member at the BYU Jerusalem Center, and his research interests and publications include Ancient Northwest Semitic inscriptions, archaeology, and the Old Testament. So I love reading these bios and seeing how we find these wonderful people, Hank, to come on. And thank you for coming, being with us, Aaron. My pleasure. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me on. John, Aaron and I have worked in the same building for quite a few years now, and he is absolutely wonderful. Light radiates from Aaron as he walks down the hall. If the lights were off, Change. And this is the opening paragraph. Have you ever

heard someone speak and felt inspired to change your life? That happens every six months for Latter-day Saints. Perhaps you decided because of what you heard to live a little differently or even a lot differently. King Benjamin's sermon was that kind of sermon and the truths he taught had that kind of effect on the people who heard them. King Benjamin shared with his people what an angel had taught him, that wonderful blessings were possible through the atoning blood of Christ. Because of his message, they changed their view of themselves, the spirit changed their desires, and they covenanted with God that they would always do his will. This is how King Benjamin's words affected his people. How will they affect you?

What a great guiding question for us, Aaron. How should we start in Mosiah 4, 5, and 6? Do we need to go backwards a little bit? I think so, because by the time we start this chapter, the first thing we hear is in chapter 4, verse 1, we have a message that's been delivered unto King Benjamin by an angel of the Lord. And it says that he cast his eyes round about on the multitude and behold, they had fallen to the earth for the fear of the Lord had come upon them.

At that point, you're starting to ask questions. What just happened here? What was the cause that resulted? What did the angel say? We do need to go back and take a look at a couple of things. And first of all, an approach to what were the circumstances leading up to the book of Mosiah and King Benjamin, and then as well as what happened in chapters one through three that got us to this point to where all of a sudden we've got people on the ground with the fear of the Lord because of a message of an angel. We do need to go back and take a look at the backstories. Neal A. Maxwell said, what a powerful experience it must have been to hear King Benjamin preach

personally. And then he said, especially while sitting in one's family circle in a tent facing the temple just to think about what's happening and i think to go back and sort of put that into perspective of what it is that's happening the sacrifices that are being offered what that all represented that changed these people's lives forever because elder maxwell said we can hear him now we can hear the sermon now. And if we read him reverently, the intervening centuries soon melt away. And his earnestness emerges as his example combines with the powerful words about discipleship. I wonder if you've heard the song of redeeming love and rejoiced over it, can you hear so now?

And I think that's part of the message of these chapters is, will our lives be changed in similar fashion? Wow. I can think of conference talks that changed my life. I can remember where I was when I heard this or that specific conference talk. I can't say I've ever fallen down to the earth, but it's been a little like that where I thought I'm going to live differently from here on out because of what I just heard. So I'm guessing both of you could think of a time listening to a sermon, listening to a talk where your world shifted. All right. So Aaron, for a background to chapter four, how far back do you want to go? Let's go back to Omni because it's there that we're introduced to King Benjamin, and

we learn some crucial pieces of information about his life. We learn that in the context of passing the plates down, this is something that becomes really crucial in these chapters, is how significant the records that contained the Word of God were, and the efforts that were taken to make sure that those were preserved. We encounter King Benjamin back in Omni chapter 1 in verse 23, and it's talking about a Malachi that he had seen and lived to see the death of Benjamin's father. And he said that Benjamin reigned in his stead. And then we get to verse 24. We start to hear something that is really crucial for us to read the book of Mosiah, these chapters 1 through 6, because it says,

And behold, I have seen, this is verse 24, in the days of King Benjamin, a serious war and much bloodshed between the Nephites and the Lamanites. But behold, the Nephites did obtain much advantage over them, insomuch that King Benjamin did drive them out of the land of Zarahemla. I just want to stop for a second and pose that question. How does this change the way we read King Benjamin's sermon, knowing that they're just on the heels of coming out of a terrible conflict and war? How might that affect the way that we approach the chapters? I can't imagine anything more unsettling than a war like that. Sometimes in those unsettled times, we ask some of the best questions of ourselves. What's this all about? Why am I here? What's going on? That's a great setting for King Benjamin to come out and explain what he does, perhaps. When life is going easy, maybe we don't ask the best questions and maybe this helps them

ask and be open to some really good teaching. I like what you said. I've never noticed that verse before, Aaron, that, man, they've just had this serious war. I don't know how else to describe war, but a serious war between the Nephites and Lamanites and Benjamin did drive them out of the land. So oftentimes when I read Benjamin, I think what a gentle guy, he wouldn't hurt a fly. And yet you see that there is a side of him that protects his people, protects his borders, his boundaries. Yeah. Appreciate both of your comments because we're thinking about a

people that are in an emotional state of pain. They probably suffered loss. They're probably trying to cope with the aftermath of what this was like. In fact, I know you've talked about inclusions and inclusios in some of your past episodes. If you notice that in between some of these, a lot of the inclusions include that there was contention in the land, followed by there was no more contention in the land. We see that in Omni, we see it in Words of Mormon. When we look at verses 13 through 18, it talks about, and there was contention, and then there was no more contention in the land, but peace. When we look at the first verse of Mosiah chapter 1, it talks about King Benjamin had continual peace in the land, but peace. When we look at the first verse of Mosiah chapter one, it talks about King Benjamin had continual peace in the land. There was no more contention.

And in fact, chapter six ends the very same way. There was no more contention and they had peace in the land. There's something about these that this book is trying to get us to understand how to find peace in adversity. And this masterful sermon, these experiences at the temple are going to be what become life-changing for these individuals and the experiences that they have. And how relevant then, Aaron, to those of us who read this, I'm guessing there might be a handful, John, of our listeners who are going through difficult times.

Maybe, I don't know, six or seven that are going through. Everyone is going through difficult times, maybe, I don't know, six or seven. Everyone is going through difficult times. So this becomes even more relevant as you realize what Aaron's just shown us is that they're maybe coming out of, or maybe this sermon brings them out of treacherous waters. Yeah. As the book of Omni continues, it brings in something else that's really significant in this equation. And again, that's the value of the plates. I find this absolutely fascinating in Omni 125. We learn that King Benjamin obtains the plates. We learn that he's going to receive them. And it says these plates, deliver up these plates unto him, exhorting all men to come unto God,

the Holy one of Israel, and to believe in prophesying and revelations and in the ministering of angels. So all this stuff that Benjamin is going to experience, all of these sermons that he's going to deliver to people that changed their lives that we pick up with in chapter four, words of an angel. It's an invitation to believe in the divine, to believe in the power of revelation. And it's for everyone. There's no exclusions here.

And we see that I think is an important component of the Book of Mormon. This book is inclusive. And I know that sometimes we can get into a reading where we look at certain passages and say, well, this is excluding certain groups of people based on skin color, or it's excluding certain people based on things other than behavior. And I don't think that was the original intent of the authors here. And I believe the book, when it says that all are alike unto God, that that's a crucial message of all of this, because the whole power of the Book of Mormon, our story after story after story of inclusion, of bringing people into a covenant that was designed to bring all people peace and happiness. Again, I think that sometimes we can get caught in this malaise of trying to impose something on the text that wasn't

there originally. I hope that we get to a point where we start looking at this for the way it was originally written, and that was to bind communities together, to bring people together, to offer relief to the suffering. If we keep sort of imposing a reading on it that says that there's parts of the Book of Mormon about discrimination, it's not the original intent. I've actually never met anybody personally that studies the ancient context of the Cain story or the Ham story or these stories where we claim sometimes that there's a discrimination factor here or a misogyny. That wasn't the intent. You can't come to that conclusion when you approach it from the ancient perspective. I truly embrace the church when it says that we disavow any

interpretations that have arisen over the years that are based on scripture that resulted in discrimination. And yes, there's no question that that's been a part of both within and without the church, but I hope there comes a day when all are likened to God, but all are likened to us, and we allow the scriptures to sort of speak that message for itself and take it at its word. Because again, this is an invitation now for everyone to come and embrace this and partake of the salvation and the power of redemption and offer your whole souls to God. And this is an important part of, I think, this bridge that's starting to be created between King Benjamin's earlier days of war and contention, where he then has to go back and try and heal a wounded community through the word of God.

Fantastic. John, isn't this why we have our guests on here? Especially someone like Aaron this week, who says, look, we've got to look at this in its ancient context, because way too often we come in, Aaron, isn't the word, isogetically, and we start to put our lens on the text and our world on the text. That's not a healthy way to read scripture. You're going to see things that really aren't there. In verse 26, it talks about continuing fasting and prayer and endure to the end. We're going to learn in words of Mormon that this again is a bridge. Part of what I'm hoping that we'll accomplish here in the next few minutes is that we see the importance between the plates and how they interact over time, and they're taking great care to make sure that those are conveyed from generation to generation. So, we start looking at the bigger picture, we see that this was always a preoccupation, even into the present

day. We look at Mosiah 8, and it talks about the 24 plates that were brought back to Mosiah, and that they need to translate these. So they're trying to figure out these ancient scriptures. And we learn about this through some significant exchanges and words of Mormon are going to be this bridge where Mormon is going to come along with all of these. He's going to take these books from Nephi all the way up to Omni. And he's going to add this addendum that is a bridge connecting the historical narratives that are found within the early books of the Book of Mormon. Why so much effort to do this, to tie in these stories, to make sure that these plates are offering us something that

is beneficial to us? You start looking a little deeper at Words of Mormon. There's a verse in here that really catches my eye. And maybe we could read this. Words of Mormon 1.7. And words of Mormon, Aaron, is a jump ahead in time, which we were in Omni. If you're in Omni, you're in 130 BC. Mosiah, 130 BC. But words of Mormon, 500 years into the future.

Verse seven. And I do this for a wise purpose. For thus it whispereth me, according to the workings of the Spirit of the Lord which is in me. And now I do not know all things, but the Lord knoweth all things which are to come, wherefore he worketh in me to do according to his will. Thank you. Hank, I know you just had this conversation with Garrett, so maybe you could give us a little background of why that verse becomes so significant in

the future. Absolutely. John, you can help me as you were in that interview with Dr. Dirkmaat. Right. So Joseph Smith and Martin Harris translate a large chunk of the Book of Mormon, the Book of Lehi, written by Mormon. Those pages are stolen from them. And Joseph, I think, and Martin are both absolutely distraught, thinking they've ended the project. It's over and everything changes.

John, you want to take it from there? What I love about this is I don't know what the wise purpose is. I just know I'm just going to do it because the Lord has a reason for this. It appears the Lord with his foresight can tell that record would be lost or stolen, as Garrett put it. They stole it. That he would have kind of a backup plan. And as is often the case, the backup plan turns out to be even better or throw greater views on certain things. There's a lot of plates, it appears, they are working from,

not just one continuous narrative, but a lot of different plates. And then Mormon finds this first, second Nephi, Jacob, Enos, Jeremiah, says, I love it. I'm going to put it into my record. Mormon himself is thinking, you're probably wondering why I'm putting this in. But the reader, the modern day reader has never even heard of Mormon up to this point. But Mormon says, the spirit's telling me to act, so I'm going to act. And then let's continue our story. Isn't that amazing? Because even all the way this far back in time, God is aware of how significant his word is going to be. And he's already influencing individuals in the past to take precautions to make sure that when the time comes, these words are preserved for another

generation. With the bridge now that Words of Mormon are providing for us, we see now that all is not lost in this equation, that there has been a provision made. To me, that's just an amazing part of the story as we're going through, because again, words of Mormon explain all of these contentions in verse 12. We learn that King Benjamin is fighting with his own strength with the sword of Laban. These are tough times that they're coming out of. I guess to kind of exacerbate that problem, the next few verses talk about on the heels of war that there's also false Christs, false teachers, false preachers. This is a society that's getting beaten up.

They're experiencing things that are really hard to describe. Verse 16 then talks about after there having been much contention and many dissensions away to the lamanites people are leaving these are family members these are aunts these are uncles these are children these are fathers mothers people are leaving you get the impression that this is a destitute time and it talks about how benjamin was a holy man there were many holy men and they spoke with power and authority and with the help of these king benjamin by laboring with all his might and his body and the faculty of his whole soul like this was everything he had to give that they did once again establish peace in the land. This was no easy task to get us to where we start in the book of Mosiah.

Section 10 in the Doctrine and Covenants talks about this process of making sure that provisions are taken to preserve the plates and the word that's on them that are going to be lost. It's interesting if you go to the Joseph Smith papers and look up some of their footnotes, talks about the book of Mormon, Nephite dissenters periodically break away and join the Lamanites. And again, we're kind of seeing it here. And the purpose of the book, one of the funnest things, if you ever want a good read, go back and look at the initial dedicatory prayer for the Mesa, Arizona temple and how significant the Lamanites are in that equation and how it's going to be a part of bringing them into

the covenant. There's this preoccupation. This is about everybody. It's not about one group. It's not about another. It's about anyone. And I actually see the Gentile chapters of Isaiah, that that's how the Lord is using those chapters in the Book of Mormon. Those are some of the earliest chapters we get is when they first land in a new place we've got individuals in the nephite party that are like what do we do now how do we interact with these other populations and how do we maintain our identity but also bring them into a covenant that has brought us much joy through our adversity we see this now the story opening up and of course if we spring forward i guess forward in chronology of the

Book of Mormon, but also in time with Moroni, when we start looking at the Book of Ether, it also specifically says there in Ether 3 and chapter 4, verse 1, it talks about, for this cause did King Benjamin keep them, that they should not come to the world until after Christ should shoo himself into the people. It looks at the forethought that God is having about how we have to preserve this word on these plates that becomes a significant part of the equation leading us into these commissions that Benjamin receives from his predecessor and owner of the plates that just says you need to come into Christ and believe in the revelations

and receive that peace that comes through that process. Wow. That sets up a beautiful background. I can't say I've really seen this before. The wars, the false Christ, false prophets, the dissensions to the Lamanites. And I can see why King Benjamin would say, wow, a change in King might really be a difficult time now because of all that's going on. I want everybody to come together so I can address them. And that really is significant because we remember our biblical history with the coronation of Solomon instead of Adonia. That was a rough, bumpy process and it almost split the kingdom. This is a coronation scene as we get now to Mosiah chapter 1 and 2, that Mosiah is going to declare

his son Benjamin as the legitimate king. He's trying to avoid any contentions that could arise and it becomes a sacred setting because they're trying to portray Benjamin as not only a leader that you can trust because of his faithfulness, of his desire not to put burdens on them. You know, the practical things of life that you look for in relief as a citizen of a group of people or a country or a kingdom, but also that he is an upstanding man of God that is going to, again, kind of include that trust and build that trust that they can have in him. And that's how Mosiah chapter one and two sort of start. If we could, let's go look at that again as sort of a review and a backstory of all of this. Again, I haven't seen what you discussed in Mosiah one through three, but maybe you could, the two of you give us a little backstory here of some things that really impressed you about the first three chapters of Mosiah that will lead us to eventually we get into our discussion of chapter 4. Right at the beginning,

he talks about the importance of the records, of having these records in Mosiah 1 verse 3. I would that you should remember were it not for these plates which contain these records and these commandments, we must have suffered in ignorance, even at the present time, not knowing the mysteries of God. And when we think about coming to findings, Arahemla and the Mulekites that didn't have records with them and how they couldn't even speak to each other. There's the reminder of how important it is to have these records. And my son had a wrestling tournament down at UVU and he took his backpack with him and he had his journal in the backpack, which he had been keeping since he was a little kid. We were writing his entries about him. He was so young when we started this. He came home and the backpack and the journal was gone. And I haven't had that kind of angst for a long time.

I was thinking about what was on that journal that would never be able to be recovered, thinking, why didn't I stop and take pictures of each page? Thankfully, some good soul turned it in, lost and found, and we got it. But how interesting, because it was irreplaceable. I didn't care about the backpack, the wrestling shoes, anything else that was in there. But that journal, those words on those pages, and it's the journal itself was a dollar. But the words, and we get that same sense. Now the plates thereof have no worth because the Lord won't allow them to be sold. But the record that's on the plates, world changing.

Anyway, I like that King Benjamin starts out with that in the speech, and the idea of keeping them before our eyes, because we can put things on the shelf or in the back of our minds, and keeping it in front of us is part of discipleship, I think, to King Benjamin. But I think every time they added another plate to this story, can you imagine how valuable this became? It stabilized their society. It put the commandments in front of their eyes. And so I love how he starts out with talking about how important it was that we have these records. In fact, he uses that phrase, Mosiah 1, 6, because we have them before our eyes.

And that's one thing. And then verse 7, Now search them diligently that you may profit thereby. And I don't know if the Mulekites that are in the audience now that have been taught the language, or again, one of the reasons they rejoiced is that the King Mosiah I had brought the records with them. I don't know. That's one of the reasons they rejoiced is that the King Mosiah I had brought the records with them. I don't know. That's one of the things that impresses me at the beginning is that he's

talking about how important it is to have these records. I appreciate the way that you've articulated that because do we understand what we have in front of us right now and what it's taken? Again, we saw this in Revelation in section 10. We see this in Ether. We see these in these chapters that are trying to get us to understand how important the Word of God really is, the difference that it can make, the change of heart that they can produce. They start talking in verses 3 and 4 in chapter 1 about the plates, the language of the egyptians and how they've taken great care to make sure that they can continue to read those and interpret these we fast forward now into modern times and what's the big crux when joseph actually gets the plates

get them translated like nobody knows what they say it's a form of authenticity it's a genuine authenticity of these stories that help us to understand i love the battle that joseph has when he's trying to obtain the plates because obviously you see they're of great value they're made of metal something that could be cashed in, melted down. And yet the whole point of this is, I think what you said there in verse 7, search them diligently that you may profit thereby. That's the profit that you get from the plates. And it's not their value. And of course, we know that Joseph, this was a big part of his struggle.

When Moroni finally is trying to deliver him the plates. In his 1832 account, Joseph describes his own struggle with this. He says, for now, I had been tempted of the adversary and sought the plates to obtain riches and kept not the commandment that I should have an eye single to the glory of God. Therefore, I was chastened and sought diligently to obtain the plates. We know that he was struggling because his family was in indigent circumstances. This could have really put a fix on the Smith family, and particularly when Alvin dies and they lose the farm. His dad is impoverished and they can't pay the bills.

And Oliver Cowdery said God needed to raise him above a level of the common earthly fortunes. Joseph needed to come to comprehend. This was the value of the plates was what was written on them, the word of God. Of course, we know from one of the Whitmer accounts that, you know, that fourth year, that the whole Smith family is back at the house waiting to see if Joseph has actually obtained them because he was told if he does not obtain them this time, he'll never get them. And just the anxiety and the waiting when Joseph finally comes and lets them know. It's a huge relief. You think about how difficult this was. Sorry, we're going off on a big side story here, but it's just the value of the plates. Joseph's concern is,

well, nobody's going to believe me with all of this stuff. And I love Lucy Mack Smith's and her history. She says that Joseph was afraid that his father would not believe him, all that Moroni was telling him, that there were these buried plates and to go do this. And of course, it's in the 1835 account where Joseph describes after the four visits from Moroni, and he's just zapped of energy, falls to the ground. He says, the angel came to me and commanded me to go and tell my father what I had seen and heard. He said, I did so. And he wept and told me that the vision was of God. And we learned from other accounts that Joseph Sr. had had some

visions that were very similar to a buried box that contained something significant. So I think of how relevant this story is, not just for their present, but for the future. They were learning the language of the Egyptians, and this was all a big part of the whole Charles Anthon experience. And again, they had to learn to know. And Garrett and Mike McKay have done so much work on showing, you know, we got to get this translated. Joseph wasn't quite sure who was going to translate these. The language of the Egyptian, Champollion, was just beginning to decipher Egyptian from the Rosetta Stone. And the point was, is there was no one on the planet who could decipher those and who

could translate this book. And Joseph had to learn that it truly was going to be by the gift and power of God. And there was no other way. To me, I look at this stuff and I think, wow, God has taken great care to make sure we get into our hands the same teachings that changed a group of people the way that it did with king benjamin and his people i think of the reformation and the people who would do anything to have the scriptures in their own language they would do anything you could even be killed if you had the scriptures in your own language and yet here we are with all of the scriptures in our pocket i can pull out almost any scripture i want. It's remarkable because when Joseph finally translates these by his 1832

history, he's stating that the coming forth of these plates in such a remarkable way and their translation thereof was a fulfillment of the prophecies of Isaiah. And we're seeing this story within a story within a story that really underscores and accentuates how valuable the word of God is in this equation. And then Aaron, as we move into chapter two, I would call at least the beginning of chapter two, a treaties on leadership. If you really want to have influence as a leader, chapter two,

at least the beginning is for you. And then towards the end, it's all these warnings from King Benjamin. He says, beware, less contentions come among you or arise among you. He says, you are withdrawing yourselves from the spirit when that happens. And you become, as Dr. Platt told us in Mosiah 2.38, you become an enemy to God, which is the very phrase that the angel will use in chapter three. Yeah. This is a story now of trying to bridge the gap, and we'll use the word atonement. I know I've heard John talk about this in previous episodes of becoming one at one met with God. This is about overcoming that separation, closing that gap through the atonement that we are no longer strangers.

We're actually, when we finally get to Mosiah 4 through 6, we're going to see about not being strangers to God. Part of what's happening, I think, to bridge that gap is the ritual that's being involved in chapter 2. So, you know, when we pick up on chapter 2, verses 3 and 4, we see that they're coming forth, they're bringing forth the firstlings of the flocks, that they might offer sacrifice and burnt offerings according to the law of Moses. When we take a step back there and think for a second that if burnt offerings represent a similitude of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, and it's doing so in a very ritualistic and personal way, I don't know what form of the law of Moses they're living at this point. Originally, if you go far enough back part of that ritual included you know laying your hands upon the offering that you were transferring your identity to the lambs and it was because of its death that you got to live that the sinful self could die

so this is a very powerful way and you know some of us you know we cringe and think oh that sounds gross of the shedding of the blood of the animal to represent that. I mean, we do it every Sunday, to be honest, when we go to the sacrament table to remember the blood that was shed on our behalf. This is sacred and it's something that's changing them. It's offering a visual. We don't know the exact type of sacrifice. It says burnt offerings. That's one category.

The next verse says that they might give thanks to the Lord their God. That is a category of offering and they're actually called peace offerings. So think of the word peace that occurs throughout here. I love that concept of peace because it refers to an end of conflict, an end to a struggle, whether it be sin, heartache, discouragement, these are meant to end pain because that's what the atonement of Jesus Christ does. And as they're sitting together now in this setting, they're offering sacrifices, depending on the type of offering, it could also include a communal meal. And they may have been, again, partaking of some of the offering as families, as individuals. But this is sacred.

And it talks about here that they establish peace in the land. And the way that they're establishing that peace is because their lives are changing as they're approaching God. And it's allowing them that they can rejoice and be filled with love towards God. This is at the end of verse four, but also all men. Now think about that. You came off of wars with people that you are clearly in opposition with. And the teaching now is the first two great commandments. Love God and love your neighbor. And these sacrifices that are being portrayed now that represent the slaying of the lamb, the sacrifice that changes us, that takes away the sinful person. This is the hope that they're feeling in this process of the ritual that's allowing them to, again, close that gap between themselves and God and the way that God is asking them to treat each other and take care of each other is going to become much more personal. now and we look at chapter 2 verse 9 it says don't trifle with these things that have been spoken

and prepare your hearts and your minds to receive the mysteries of god and that they can be unfolded to your view as chapter 2 ends and you pointed this out earlier don't withdraw yourselves from the spirit of the lord that it may have place in you to guide you in wisdom's path, that you may be blessed and prospered and preserved. There's something about this that's the invitation to come to Christ and allow him to speak to us and to hear him. With that as a transition now to chapter three, there's something going on in verse five that I think is really the crux here. Because as they're sitting together, offering these sacrifices, partaking of this joy of being unified in God. When we get to chapter three, five through seven, these are like the seminal verses of what the angel is going to teach. And that is

all that you're representing here in your sacrifice, in the form of this offering, in the life that was shed for you, the blood that was shed for you, he's real. And it's not far distant that he's coming. This is a similar side story that we're going to have with Abinadi. And he's going to use Isaiah 53 as his burden of proof to say, it's not the law that saves. All these things that we're doing, the ritual that we're doing, it's important, but that law is pointing us to the actual sacrifice, who is Christ. And Torah, which is the word for law might have a root a meaning that means to point so the law is pointing us to the reality of what it's teaching and that is how do we gain the presence of god which again is very powerful in a temple setting where they're there

with their tents facing the setting the backdrop of the temple because they are learning how to commune with god the angel teaches them in five through seven in chapter three of the temple because they are learning how to commune with God. The angel teaches them in 5 through 7 in chapter 3 of the reality of what this all means. Could we read these verses? I don't think there's anything more powerful than these. And John, would you like to read these? For behold, the time cometh and is not far distant that with power the Lord Omnipotent, who reigneth, who was and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear,

and curing all manner of diseases. And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men. And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death. For behold, blood cometh from every poor, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people. Thank you. There's not even hardly words to describe what this means. The angel is saying that he'll take upon him a tabernacle of clay. The word tabernacle, depending on what word is being used here,

that's also a way of describing the temple as a place where God dwells. It's a name that is sometimes given to the temple. Everything that they're seeing, everything they're experiencing is telling them that Immanuel, that God truly is going to be with us. This setting of what it's going to accomplish. He's going to raise the dead. He's going to cause the lame to walk. Again, I don't have any idea the shape that some of these soldiers are in after these battles.

We know from other accounts in the Book of Mormon that some of these soldiers are in after these battles. We know from other accounts in the Book of Mormon that some of these battles were brutal and that there were people that were hurt and harmed and injured. To think what this means when an angel is coming and saying there will be healing and peace. Now that doesn't mean that everyone's wounds are going to go away. It doesn't mean that we're not going to have memories of hurt. It doesn't mean that all pain stops.

But there's something about this that's supposed to inspire hope that says things will get better when the Savior performs these things. Aaron, I don't know if these people, I assume King Benjamin does, but I don't know if everyone in this day has access to what becomes first and second Nephi. So this might be news to them. I know for us, 2024 Latter-day Saints, the idea that God is going to come to earth and take him a body and suffer and bleed and die, be resurrected. That to us is old news. But to these people, couldn't this be brand new information? Like Jehovah, the God we worship is coming here. Gods don't do that in the ancient world, do they? They don't come down and become human so that they can learn what it's like to be one of these people. Am I getting that right?

It's interesting because a lot of what we read about in here revolves around also the creation account, the God who created us. And I think that part of that is deliberately being interjected into these chapters because it's trying to get us to understand the purpose of our creation. When you start thinking of the image and likeness of God, I think part of what this is saying is it's giving us a hope that we can become something so much more than we are. And I think that when we get to chapter four, that's part of what's just absolutely overwhelming to the people, is they're realizing their potential through their flaws. What they know or don't know, it appears they have access

to other plates. They're preserving them, they're bringing them forth, but they're clearly also hearing some stuff very specific from an angel of God. And again, that seems to be something that amplifies their experience of what they're being told because these are very specific about the types of things that Jesus is going to accomplish, the types of pains that he's going to relieve and has the potential to relieve. And we always have to be careful with that because there are some things in life that we don't experience relief from until the next life. But I think these are trying to give us hope, and what it's going to cost is the blood that cometh from every poor. This background of the sacrifices that are being offered at the temple, representing the dwelling place of God, that we're really being drawn in now

to what it means to commune with God. And this is going to be overpowering to the people. I'd like to read a quote by Stephen Robinson. Every time I think of the atonement, this really encapsulates how personal it is to me, because as he goes through and expresses this, it really describes so many scenarios that I think are very personal to each of us. And he stated this, all the negative aspects of human existence brought about by the fall, Jesus Christ absorbed into himself. He experienced vicariously in Gethsemane, all the private griefs and heartaches, all the physical pains and handicaps, and all the emotional burdens and oppressions of the human family.

He knows loneliness of those who don't fit in, or who aren't handsome or pretty. He knows what it's like to choose up teams and be the last one chosen. He knows the anguish of parents whose children go wrong. He knows these things personally and intimately because he lived them in Gethsemane. Having personally lived a perfect life, he then chose to experience our imperfect lives. In that infinite Gethsemane experience in the meridian of time,

the center of eternity, he lived a billion, billion lifetimes of sin, pain, disease, and sorrow. God has no magic wand with which to simply wave bad things into non-existence. The sins that He remits, He remits by making them His own and suffering them. The pain and heartache that He relieves, He relieves by suffering them Himself. These things can be transferred, but they cannot be simply wished away or waved away. They must be suffered, and thus we owe him, not only for our spiritual cleansing from sin,

but from our physical, mental, and emotional healing as well. For he has borne these infirmities for us also. All that the fall put wrong, the Savior in his atonement puts right. There seems to be something about what the angel is teaching now that becomes so life-changing for the audience, as King Benjamin will repeat them. There's nothing that's beyond hope in our lives. And whatever it is we're experiencing, that pain is something that can be reached. It doesn't mean that it always will. It doesn't mean that we're always going to have that relief. It doesn't mean that our suffering will always stop. But there's something within us that I think these teachings are trying to

give us a power that says, despite my circumstances, that through my circumstances, there can be some relief. And I know that that gets difficult because, but sometimes we don't feel that when we're suffering with anxiety or with depression. It may be difficult to experience that feeling that we yearn for, but maybe even cognitively, if we can begin to understand that we have a God who loves us and cares us, who says greater love hath no man than this, than he who laid down his life for his friends, that maybe that can offer some peace, even when we're struggling to feel that peace in our own lives.

What's so significant about this is we figure an angel has a really good sense of what needs to be talked about. The angel gave him these words and he lays out the life of Christ here and what he's going to go through. As you so beautifully said, Aaron, I'm looking at this page 3, page 152, is, I think it's tied for first place in the most footnotes for people who look at such things, because it is so rich with what it's teaching us. I'm counting 28 lines of footnotes here. This verse 8, all these names, he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the creator of all things from the beginning. And then this, and his mother shall be called Mary.

This is 124 BC. And they get to hear this. How must that have felt to know stuff that's coming and to know that God knows what's coming and God knows who you are. I really love what that must have felt like to have this, I don't want to call it inside information, but do you know what I mean?

How that must have lifted and blessed them. And then Aaron, you talked about Stephen Robinson talking about parents and their children who stray and look at verse 11. For behold, also his blood atoned for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them or who have ignorantly sinned. I feel bad when I hear about people leaving, but I also know that only a fullness of knowledge will bring a fullness of accountability. There's hope in that line, those who have ignorantly sinned. I don't know how you guys look at that, but they're not sinning

against as high of a knowledge, and therefore, there's some mercy there. There's some atonement there, perhaps. Do you guys see it that way? Yeah, and that's actually a category of a knowledge and therefore there's some mercy there. There's some atonement there perhaps. Do you guys see it that way? Yeah. And that's actually a category of a sin offering in the Old Testament. It's a trespass offering. And some of those can be a category of sinning and ignorance, sins of commission, things that are left undone, things that we're unaware of that we do. It's a compassion that is really hard to describe through the atonement, that that compassion extends, that sometimes we do things, we're not aware of it. There's ways to make restitution when that stuff happens. And that's

a big part of that trespass offering, is that restitution is required. When we finally do get over to chapter four now, that's exactly what the people are feeling, what you just described there, John. They've had the angel of the Lord has delivered this message. They're overwhelmed with what has happened and they fall into the earth and the fear of the Lord has come upon them. When we think about falling to the earth, this concept of prostration in the Bible, it occurs over a hundred times in the Bible. And it's one of the most sacred gestures, physical gestures in ritual and sacrifice. You're dropping to your knees. It's this I can only imagine moment, the song I can only imagine while I fall to my knees. Will I be

able to speak? How will I act? They seem to be having one of those moments. And they simply are in this awe of God. So fear not shaking in my boots, but you have my full allegiance. I love you. I care about you. I am here. Help me. And they're starting to recognize that need. And again, we start getting into this language in the next couple of verses of lower than the dust of the earth, they're nothingness, they're worthless and fallen state. And we start thinking, okay, let's talk about that for a second. What are we supposed to take away from someone who says I'm lower than the dust of the earth? Most of us, when we write a talk, if we have a desired outcome, we might, I want people to learn this or feel this.

Sometimes we might even say, I hope people feel good about themselves. Was that King Benjamin's desired outcome? Is that right? Because he missed it then, right? I want everybody to feel lower than the dust. No, this is what he wants. Verse two, they had viewed themselves. He held up a mirror and they saw their dependence on Christ. That is an awesome desired outcome. round and saying, boy, I know who really needs this talk. They were viewing themselves and saying, I need redemption. When I see less than the dust of the earth, maybe it's even footnoted here,

I go to Helaman 12, verse 7. Mormons jumping into the middle of this story. Oh, how great is the nothing of an explanation, verse 8. At his voice do the hills and mountains tremble and quake. It kind of sounds to me, correct me if I'm wrong, guys, that the dust will obey God. But so much of, I think, what sin is is rebellion, that we don't want to do what God's asking us to. And in that way, we can be less than the dust. Now, am I getting that right, guys? I think that's a wonderful explanation.

And I think it works well with what Hank was saying about creation, because this is a major contrast that we're seeing here is this starting point. We're created from the dust of the earth. So we're talking about something that is unformed, unfinished, incomplete. It's sometimes in scripture used as a humility, frailty, mortality. It's also used on the flip side. So for example, 1 Samuel 2.8, that God exalts somebody by raising them from the dust. There seems to be something about this acknowledgement that yes, I'm here, but I know that you can raise me from the dust into something that is fully developed and

the reason i'm saying this fully developed is because if you look in verse five when it talks about be awakened to a sense of your nothingness and your worthless and fallen state the nothingness i don't know what word is being used here originally but there is a word that occurs in scripture particularly in the creation account and one of them is tohu meaning that the earth was created tohu meaning from out of emptiness the earth was created, tohu v'vohu, meaning from out of emptiness. The earth was empty and void. I wonder if there's some connection here. We're saying, you know, recognize your nothingness, meaning that right now we're not in the state that God intends us to be in. We're a little bit empty sometimes. We're a little bit void sometimes of what we can do to reach our full potential. And part of being in a state where you say, I recognize that.

I recognize my complete dependence upon God to help raise me above where I am. Because this word is also used not just in the creation account, but it's also later used in Deuteronomy when God is describing bringing Israel out of Egypt and into this empty desert. And it's describing, this is Deuteronomy 32. He says, I brought you out to this desert wasteland. I encircled you. I cared for you. I hovered over you, which is also a word, marachepheth is a word that's used also in the creation account. God is tenderly watching over us and helping to raise us from the dust, to help us become not just the base self that we are, but the exalted self that we can become. The people are using this kind of language, not to say I'm navel-lent,

but that we can have a peace of conscience. Imagine peace, that war ends. Imagine being able to have a conscience that just says, all of these things that have hurt me, all of these things that I struggled with, all of these feelings that says I'm not good enough, I can't do it, that that's no longer a conflict that we fight, no longer a war that we wage with ourselves. Because God is able to bring us a peace that says you are good enough. And if you come to me, I can make weak things strong. As a missionary, 18-year-old kid, I was happy to give ether a try, pray that weak things could be made strong. And I didn't know what I was expecting from that

experience. But I remember going down to my knees one night and saying, hey, can you please tell me where I need some work? I was totally stunned because I didn't have one thing that I needed to work on. God revealed one after another after another. But what shocked me, though, is that I did not feel like a loser. I felt like God cared enough to say, yes, you need some help, but I'm here to help you. I can help you through all of this if you'll let me. And I just think there's this awe that's overcome the people in chapter four that is leading them to understand what humility is before God, what it means to understand his glory, what it means to receive a remission of sins.

Like that burden is being lifted from them to where they're in a state now where they understand their complete reliance upon God. And they feel what that feels like, not in a negative way, but in a liberating way. I really love this, Aaron. The people walking away saying, look how much I am loved, that God can take me and turn me into a saint. Mosiah 3.19, through his blood, I can become, not just act like a saint,

I can become a saint. God can take the dust of the earth and turn it into a saint. I've often said that the name of the church should be the church of Jesus Christ of really hoping and trying to be Latter-day Saints. Yeah. And that feels like a really important part of chapter four, verse two, where it says, have mercy and apply the atoning blood of Christ.

Because that word apply, depending on which word is being used here, it can mean something that covers another thing, like a layer of gold over an object. Atonement has to do with covering. There's something about all of this. Apply the atoning blood. And again, we're thinking of the sacrificial environment that they have offered up the offerings. They've applied the blood. We truly can be healed, covered in the love of God. And that creates this new creature in Christ and gives us hope and courage through difficulties. We've talked about this before, John, but it seems to me that throughout these chapters, the atonement and the spirit are almost a package deal that the spirit is the vehicle

by which the atonement can come into your life and give you this remission of your sins your peace of conscience that's chapter four verses two and three have mercy apply the blood of christ that we can receive forgiveness our sins our hearts may be purified then you go to verse three the spirit of the lord came upon them they They were filled with joy, having received remission of their sins and a peace of conscience. In my mind, we've talked about this a number of times, John, the Holy Ghost is crucial to how the atonement comes into your heart and mind. It brings it in. I believe in verse two that perhaps one of the most important words there is and. We kind of see a couple of things that happen once you apply the atoning blood of Christ. We receive forgiveness of our sins. Okay, that's the cleansing power.

And our hearts may be purified. And that is preparation for life going forward and power against temptation in the future. Do you see what I mean? I know that Elder Bednar, President Oaks have talked about this idea of clean hands, pure heart. Our hands are cleansed, but now what happens next time we're tempted? Our hearts need to be changed as well. So there's a dual nature thing there. In the scriptures, a lot of times we see not the water of baptism being the cleanser, but the spirit being the cleanser, being purified by fire or

by the Holy Ghost. And we kind of see both. And we've talked, Hank, about how the baptism in water and receiving the Holy Ghost, a baptism altogether. A significant part of all of that process is that growing takes time. Developing an understanding of how to recognize the Spirit and how to be sanctified through the process of our life, this concept of justification and sanctification, that takes time. And we need to be patient with ourselves. And sometimes I know for me, that's hard to do. I'm quick to beat up on myself. And yet in verse 6 in chapter 4, it says, if you've come to a knowledge of the goodness of God, this is one of the great revelations here. You've come to know God and his wisdom and his patience and long suffering. If we could see him as a loving father, who's not just this Stephen Robinson, again, call it a cosmic bully with a stick.

He cares about us. He loves us. He's patient patient with us and he understands that we go through difficult things that sometimes really try us in ways that push us to our limits and we don't always come out as our best selves through that process he just says if we come to know the goodness of god is long-suffering and if you trust in the lord and be diligent in keeping his commandments the best that you can in faith, trusting in God, that's something that can be so difficult to do when we can't always see his purposes, when we don't always understand why we're experiencing something that we're experiencing. But to trust him, Neal A. Maxwell said God's not a postdoc student trying to figure things out. And he doesn't come to some piece of the equation and say, oops, I didn't see that coming, sorry.

He knows what he's doing, and he sent his son to make that possible. And through all of this, this trust is something that will allow us in verse 12 to say that we'll always rejoice. Always doesn't mean every minute of every day, every second. It doesn't mean that every situation is going to turn out like we want it to. But there's something about it that says we'll be filled with the love of God and retain a remission of our sins through that process. And I think that that's an important part of this equation. Hank, I've heard you joke about this. I've heard our friend Brad Wilcox joke about this,

that a verse like verse five, a sense of your nothingness, your worthless and fallen state, that will probably never become a youth conference theme. I don't think you'll see that on a t-shirt. You are nothing, you're worthless and fallen. Youth Conference 2024, right? For the parents out there who are trying to teach this to their children, maybe in verse 5 where they see nothing, worthless and fallen, I think when we're older, we kind of get that. We need to view ourselves and see how much we need the Savior and His atonement. Maybe for the parents out there that are teaching

their children, make sure you see footnote 5a on nothingness and footnote 11c on nothingness. They both take you to this beautiful story that we've talked about before, Moses 1.10, where Moses, after he has this vision, says, now I know that man is nothing which thing I never had supposed. And this is right after the Lord calls him Moses, my son, three times. And then when Satan shows up, we don't see Moses go, yeah, I'm nothing, I'm worthless. We see Moses say, who are you? For behold, I am a son of God. And somehow Moses is able to hold those two ideas perfectly together. I can view myself in my own state, but with God, look what he can do. Look what God can do with me.

That's a way to share that for the parents out there with their children about how we can get to a place where we understand how much we need God, that we view ourselves as nothing and worthless and fallen. But with God, we can look at adversity and at the adversary and say, I'm a son of God. I'm a daughter of God. Does that make sense to you guys? Yeah. And in fact, I think there's a humility in there that's really being pulled out of this

process. And the way you put that, it's fantastic because it's that recognition of what we can become. And not that we're worthless or that we don't mean anything to God, but that we mean everything to Him. And that example of Moses is such a powerful example. And Joseph, in his 1832 account, he talks about, I felt convicted for my sins. Not that I was hopeless because of them, but it's just they mattered to me because I wanted to be better. I wanted to become something different. Even in this transition, it brings up another concept that we encounter here later in chapter four, and that's about being beggars. We encounter that a few times, that are we not all beggars? There was a mechanism

set up in ancient Israel to avoid poverty, to care for the poor and the needy. But there's something about this concept, though, that says with soberness, with diligence, with being of sound mind to pursue these principles. It talks about not suffering children to go hungry and our hearts break as we see things happening throughout the world of people who are suffering. And we want to help in any way that we can. Talking about how teach your children not to fight or quarrel with one another. I mean, we can't even do that as adults. And we want to try and get our kids to act that way. And yet we're told to be beggars. I don't know if we can equate this one-on-one, but if you look at the Sermon on the Mount,

which again, we're going to hear in the New Testament, but also later in 3rd Nephi, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God. And part of what that word poor means is that we are recognizing our complete dependence upon God. To be poor in spirit, those who admit their spiritual poverty, those who acknowledge that without God, I can do nothing. I need God. I need help. And I'm beggarly that way. I'm poor that way.

To have sort of this humility with regard to our own capacities. Let's say only through the Lord can I do this. And we have now Benjamin who's like, you guys are calling out, you're begging for a remission of your sins. It's because we recognize the limitations in our own capacities to accomplish that. That we feel a complete need to be blessed in spirit to inherit the kingdom of God. There does seem to be something significant now about what John was describing, like a humility through the process of life that gets us to recognize that we really are needy when it comes to salvation. And there's only one person who can do that for us. I'm in a discussion of the after all we can do and what that really means and everything. I always like to point out King Benjamin saying, are we not all beggars? It doesn't say, are we not all earners? Like we're earning it. No, the position that we're in is

that we're begging. We can't say I deserve this. I earned it. Nope. I'm glad that he said that because that helps us see how dependent we are on the Savior. Coming up in part two of this episode. Now, I was 14 years old. I'll really never forget this experience. It's been almost four decades, and I still remember it like it was yesterday. It was that powerful.