followHIM - Mosiah 4-6 Part 2 • Dr. Aaron Schade • April 29 - May 5 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Dr. Schade elaborates on King Benjamin's address, discussing how becoming a saint through Jesus Christ involves helping the poor and how covenants can change personal and collective attitudes.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18FRPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM18ESYOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/bRciaJT0W5EALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast00:00 Part II–Dr. Dr. Aaron Schade00:07 Mosiah 4-5 - Becoming a Saint through remission of sins06:20 Mosiah 5:7 - A new name10:07 Mosiah 5:10 - spiritual orthodontics13:19 Mosiah 5:7 - Children of Christ15:31 Dr. Schade’s The Book of Moses from Ancient of Days to Latter Days17:23 4 Nephi: 1:17 No -ites, divine identities, and Mosaic laws regarding strangers 20:01 Mosiah 6:3 - King Benjamin appoints priests(and gives assignments)22:14 Mosiah 4:19-28 - Covenant requires service to the poor25:28 John shares personal experience with prayer and welfare27:54 President Jeffrey Holland’s “Are We Not All Beggars?”30:45 John shares a personal story of buying a guitarrón32:46 Brad and Roger Wilcox’s Blessed Are Ye34:22 Elder Kearon’s “Refuge from the Storm”36:44 Drawing from an empty well38:44 Mosiah 5:2 - A mighty change and fear vs. faith43:52 Mosiah 3:7 Comforting others46:36 Mosiah 5:2 - How to withstand evil49:08 Dr. Schade shares his testimony of Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon containing the words of Christ, and the power of personal prayer and revelation54:16  End of Part II– Dr. Aaron SchadeThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Welcome to Part 2 with Dr. Aaron P. Shade, Mosiah 4-6. Benjamin's people shows us how the spirit of the Lord can truly change our hearts. You don't act like a saint. As I said earlier, you become a saint. And then they make this statement in the manual. Think about the subtle gradual changes as well as the mighty experiences you've had. And as you look back upon your life, you notice, as Aaron said, I wish it'd go a little bit faster, but you notice that you are changing, that this atonement, verse 20, verse 26. I'm probably missing one or two. What do you think of when it says the remission of your sins? What does that mean? I frequently use the example of cancer being in remission. It doesn't mean it's completely gone, but it does mean that the signs and symptoms of your cancer, or in this case, your sins are reducing. You want to go to your spiritual doctor and he says, your sins are in remission. They're going away.

The medicine is working. I've noticed that word again in verse 26, which has a word that jumped out at me many years ago. Now, for the sake of these things, which I have spoken unto you, that is for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that you may walk guiltless before God. In verse 12, always retain a remission of your sins. I know that Elder David A. Bednar gave a talk called Always Retain a Remission of Your Sins, and he talked about how we do that through covenants, through baptism, through taking the sacrament. I love the word retainer. I think there are a lot of teenagers out there who know what a retainer is.

When I got my braces, it's an occupational hazard, as you both know, to think too hard about things so that you can use it in a class. So let me read something about that. This is how braces work. It's a cooperative effort between a wire brackets and rubber bands. If you have braces, it's because your teeth are crooked. Since teeth are a little hard to grab onto, the people at the orthodontist office glue a bracket to the front of each tooth. Then they form a paper clip-sized wire into the shape they want your teeth to be in.

And they attach the wire to your teeth with rubber bands. What do the rubber bands do? Well, besides coming in several neon and decorative colors to match each holiday, they pull your teeth to the wire. The wire is where your teeth ought to be. The rubber bands pull them there. It takes a lot of pulling, and for the first few days after each adjustment, you can eat only meals like yogurt and soup. After many adjustments over the months and years, the teeth settle into their new position. With the help of a retainer, they stay. Victory at last. Braces hurt and they're a pain, but they do great things for your mouth. So, brace yourself in life, like in

your mouth. If you want to get to a certain place, it might take some time, it might take some pain, but it's worth it in the end. It's where you really want to be. The idea of a retainer, okay, I've got things straightened out, King Benjamin. Now, how do I keep that? And that's what he's telling them now. This is how you can retain a remission of your sins. And how many of us, John, don't use our retainer? They're in our journal, lost at the wrestling tournament. But if we don't, then we try to put it back in. We're like, oh, this is much more painful.

Yeah. If you don't use it every day, it doesn't fit anymore. You have to go back to braces. And that is though the power of change. And it's not always comfortable. It's not always something that we desire. It's not always something we invite, but it's something always comfortable it's not always something that we desire it's not always something we invite but it's something that is a painful process that makes us something different

in a way that's positive for us that change in chapter 5 verse 2 amazing what's happening here it says because of the spirit of the lord omnipent, which has wrought a mighty change in us or in our hearts. The heart was the seat of all feelings, of all emotion, of desires. We're talking about a change here now that's leading to this. We have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually. Imagine being in a state where I don't want to hurt anybody. Like it's not enough to just say I didn't hurt anybody, but I don't even want to. I don't want to do anything that causes anybody pain. And I want to help people. And that was

what we were encountering previously in verse 26 that John was reading, that we want to give relief both spiritually and temporally. Our desire is that if somebody's hurting, when they hurt, I hurt. And this becomes a great knowledge that causes them to rejoice. But that change is something now that has led to them becoming what in chapter 5 verse 7 says, and now because of the covenant. And by the way, I know you've talked about this. I think Jan talked about the Suzerainty Treaty and the different language and the prologue. And these chapters are filled with that same template of the prologue, the introduction.

God has done all of this for us. And here's the stipulations. Here's what he's asking us to do. Here are the presentation of the commandments. And we're seeing that all throughout these chapters but in verse 7 it says and now because of the covenant which ye have made you shall be called the children of christ his sons and his daughters and you've spiritually been begotten there's something now that is happening because we learned earlier that benjamin is going to give them a name.

We now learn in verse 8 that that name that they should be called by is the name of Christ. Now we start thinking, okay, how does that factor into the equation? What does a name accomplish? What's the purpose of naming? And we actually see that from the beginning of creation. And God called this object and named it. Because that's what kings do. When Nebuchadnezzar gives Daniel a new name, it's introducing a new identity that's supposed to describe your potential, your responsibilities, if we ponder for a second what that means,

to take upon us the name of Christ, that we are to become His, that His purposes are our purposes, that He is ours and we are His. And that's really encapsulated with how chapter 5 ends, that the Lord Omnipotent will seal you his. There's something about this. And again, whatever words being used here, I know there was a concept anciently, for example, in Exodus 19, where there's a word called segilla, and it means the peculiar treasure of the king. You think of a sealed clay boula that was used to stamp the name of the king

onto a little clay impression it was then tied to a papyrus or a correspondence to where everybody knew this is the king's this belongs to the king and there's something about that we start thinking and we see that again in malachi where the peculiar, when God makes us his through the priesthood ordinances, but that we become his. Not in a way that's negative, but to be able to say, yeah, this is my identity. This is who I love, and he loves me. And this is my objective, is to bear that name and realize that I'm doing everything I can

to accept all the grace that he has to offer me, and that I in return will return that grace and that love to others. We're talking about a community here that's being bound together, and we're hearing language like, we won't be a stranger. How knoweth the man the master whom he has not served, or a stranger to him. To realize that God's not trying to separate himself from us, he's trying to bring us closer to him.

And a stranger, again, being someplace where you belong, that's with God. And that's his invitation, is to come unto me. Sometimes we could think of this master as having kind of a negative connotation. But if we again look at the Sermon on the Mount, there's these words that are used there, didaskalos and mathetes, and they have to do with the master-servant relationship, meaning that there's a pupil and there's a teacher. This was never about the pupil, the student, the disciple, who is trying to somehow superficially imitate what the didaskalos or the master was trying to teach them

or a skill they were trying to acquire. The goal was that you actually mastered those skills yourself, that you became like the didaskalos, like the master teacher. These people in the book of Mosiah are drawing closer and closer to that as they're feeling like there really is hope for me. And I actually feel what this feels like to be helped in a way that says I can bear that name in a way that makes the one who loves me most proud. There seems to be something special about what's happening here. I think of my own children in verse seven, you will be called the children of

Christ, not the servants of Christ, the children of Christ. And I think about my own children and what I would do for them and how it won't be heaven if they're not there with me. If we can start to see Christ as a father figure and what a good father is willing to do, how a good father treats their children, all of a sudden your relationship changes. He's no longer a judge. He wants to help you. I was thinking about this braces idea, John, this mighty change. Elder Bednar, I remember saying, please note that the conversion described in chapter five, verse two is mighty, not minor. It's not, oh, I changed a little. It's a fundamental change. John, if I'm taking my teeth from where they are to where I will want them to

be, Aaron, you're right. That's a painful, stretching, difficult experience, but the end result is worth it. I could see myself saying something like this. I can't do this anymore. And I take my braces off. And then I say, you know what? I feel better than I ever have. I'm happier than I've ever been. Well, why? Because I'm out of that stretching, changing experience. I remember wanting to take my braces off, right? And get rid of those.

It was stretching me so much. My 14-year-old has his braces on. And when we go get those tightened, oh, man, oh man, he's just sitting there going, oh. But the end product is what the Savior's after. He's our great orthod chapters is to help us to reach out to one another, to help those who are suffering, to make sure that there's no poor among us. Whatever definition you want to assign to poor, whether it's a poor in spirit, whether it's a physical poverty, it all needs relief. This concept that we're being bound to God, we're being sealed His, is a process that takes time, but it says that you may be brought to heaven, that you may have everlasting salvation and

eternal life through the wisdom and power and justice and mercy of Him who created all things in heaven and earth, who is the God above all. There's something inviting about that where we're being asked to seek for that which is eternal. And it's a great, powerful invitation to come unto Christ and allow him to help us through the vicissitudes of life, but also to give us strength through that journey that will eventually lead us to a place where we belong, and that is with him. I love verse 7, and we might want to give some clarity because here it says we will be called the children of Christ. And I can imagine my children, and this has happened to my students, I thought we were children of Heavenly Father. How are we children of Heavenly Father and children of Christ?

Now, we are spirit children of Heavenly Parents. When we are born again, as King Benjamin is talking about, then we become the children of Christ. And that's kind of what that verse says. For behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you. So then we become the children of Christ, literally spirit children of heavenly father. And in a spiritual way, when we are born again, this mighty change of heart, we become the children of Christ. Yeah, that's well put, John. I know you talked about this with Kerry Muehlstein, about the concept of how Jesus becomes the father of our salvation. We'll encounter that again with

Abinadi. That's one of the big conversations that Abinadi has, that we need to view Jesus as somebody who is real, who actually existed. The law that we're living, it's not the law that saves. It's important, and it leads us to him. But it's the fact that there really is a Lamb of God that makes a difference in this equation. By the time we get to the end of Abinadi's preaching, he's describing Jesus as the Father of our salvation through that process. And that comes back to being born of him, becoming his sons and daughters, having that name upon us. There's something sacred about that process, about that image

of what it means to bear his name. I mean, he has many names, Savior, Redeemer. And we think of us on the flip side, saved, redeemed. I'm going to do everything that he did because of the peace that that brings and the peace that he's brought into my life. So there's this reciprocal at the book of Matthew, there's a lot of discussion about being citizens of the kingdom of God. And citizens have lots of privileges about what they get in that kingdom, but also lots of responsibilities. We're sort of seeing that reciprocal relationship here in these teachings that we love God, we love our neighbor, we receive

comfort and are beggarly pleased, recognizing our limitations and watching as God fills us with hope and courage and relief to then say, because I bear that name, that's now my role towards others to love one another as Jesus loved us. Yeah. Aaron, I think you're right on. John, I think of Moses 6.59 and Aaron has literally written the book on Moses. I don't know if we mentioned it earlier, but Aaron's book is called the book of Moses from Ancient of Days to Latter Days. And it's unbelievable. It is fantastic. Now, Aaron, you would recognize this verse then, Moses 6.59,

And as much as you were born into this world by water, blood, and spirit. I've seen that happen a couple of times. I've seen a baby be born. There's a lot of water, especially with twins. There's a lot of blood and there's a couple of times. I've seen a baby be born. There's a lot of water, especially with twins. There's a lot of blood and there's a lot of spirit. The spirit in the room. In that same verse, you have to be born again by water, baptism, spirit, Holy Ghost, and blood. And who gives us the blood in this rebirth?

It's the Lord. He becomes our father. I know that's a hard concept to understand. It's not that he replaces God the father. It's that he's our father of this spiritual rebirth. So when you see Christ referred to as the father in scripture, don't think, wait, what? God the father? No, the father of my new who I am. I even take upon myself his name. It's like a child takes on the name of their parents. We had a visiting authority at our state conference a few months ago, and he talked about that water, blood, and spirit concept and how the adversary wants to keep people from being born the first time, and then he really wants to keep them from being born again.

I thought, wow, that's really interesting. But I loved what Aaron had said about identity here, because King Benjamin is trying to unite these peoples, not only after war, but he's got the Mulekites and the people from the land of Nephi all together. He's doing that by giving them a name. And do you know what this reminded me of? You shall be called the land of Nephi altogether. He's doing that by giving them a name. And do you know what this reminded me of? You shall be called the children of Christ. It reminded me of in 4th Nephi, I'm in verse 17, there were no robbers nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites nor any manner of ites, but they were in one, and notice the exact phrase, the children of Christ and heirs to the kingdom of God. taking an earthly identity and subjugating it to

divine identity that God is trying to give us. We've heard a lot of talk about that. I think President Nelson's talk to the young adults was these three identities. Remember that talk? I'm a child of God. I'm a child of the covenant. I'm a disciple of Christ. And that no other identity should displace or replace those. I thought that was a powerful talk. That's also really significant. Again, when we talk about this concept of stranger, because there was biblical laws and they're living the Mosaic law that required the protection and love and care of the stranger, of the outsider. And I loved what you were saying there, that this is all inclusive.

There's no one that's being pushed to the outskirts of this equation. They're all being invited into Christ. And the concept of a stranger is bring somebody in that may not have initially been there and make them a part of who you are. Allow them to experience what you have. And of course, the whole covenant terminology through all of this in verse 7, because of the covenant which you have made, you shall be called the children of Christ. There seems to be something that's an invitation that says all can understand

the peace that comes with that covenant and the blessings that come with it. I remember hearing years ago, a basketball post-game show, the coach said, and maybe this is a common thing coaches say, but he said they played for the name on the back of their jersey instead of the name on the front because they had lost the game. And I thought, oh, what a great way to put it. When we take upon us the name of Christ and make that more important than the name on the back of our jersey, our name, we live differently. When I buy my scriptures and I have them emboss my name on them, that means they belong to me. Well, what does it mean then when we take upon us the name of Christ? It means we belong to him. There's a verse later in the book of Mosiah, Mosiah 26, 18,

Blessed is this people who are willing to bear my name, for in my name shall they be called, and they are mine. I find great comfort in that. Yeah, and chapter 6 ends that way with all of these people now that have made this declaration, all these people that are now recognized as this complete devotion to God, and Benjamin takes the names of all these people who had entered into a covenant and who stated they would keep the commandments. What I really find fascinating about this is that he also then gives charge concerning the kingdom and he appointed priests to teach the people. There's something here now where they're expanding that reach to more individuals and saying, okay, we're going to appoint priests to make sure that what the people felt, they continue to feel. There's not going to be that neglect that says you had this wonderful experience, but we're going to keep watching

over each other, keep learning from each other, and keep supporting each other. And imagine what our personal ministries could be like if we took that responsibility upon ourselves to make sure that we're reaching out and caring for those around us so that these personal experiences that we have can be lasting. Can we assume that this covenant was baptism if they took upon them the name of Christ? Can we assume that was in there somewhere? My answer to that is, is I don't know. Because basically this is a coronation scene. They're there to

coronate the king. That's one of the major purposes. But there also are scriptural examples throughout the Old Testament where Josiah finds the book of the law, and they gather together, and they recommit themselves to the covenant. That didn't have to be a baptismal scene. So, there are examples where people gather at temples anciently to recommit themselves to a covenant that they have already entered into, a covenant renewal. I'm not sure. To me, it seems like these are already covenant keepers, that they're living the law already. I don't have a clear answer to that question of whether or not they've engaged in a baptism or not. So that's just my honest answer.

It certainly has parallels, and it certainly has parallels with the sacrament and renewing the sacrament as well. Aaron, you talked about our personal ministry that comes out of this relationship with Christ and this mighty change that happens to us. At the end of chapter four, that seems to be one of King Benjamin's hopes is that our personal ministry will turn towards the poor. I don't know about both of you, but as a Latter-day Saint in 2024, I want to do what the Lord would have me do when it comes to the poor, but it can be difficult to know what's the hope here. I don't think the Lord is saying you need to give away all your savings and all your substance and give it away. That would not be wise. How do you go about doing this? in need. A guiding principle could be in Mosiah 2.17. It says, I tell you these things that you might learn wisdom that when you are in the service of your fellow beings, you're only in the service of your God. And also that it's not requisite that we run faster than we have strength.

Is there a clear-cut answer of what's enough and what isn't? I guess for me, it's just when I recognize that when I'm doing something for someone else, I'm doing it for the one who helped me through everything, and that is God. Whatever strength I have, then it's yours and I'll give it to you the best I can. We, I think, evaluate personally that says, you know what, I'm doing this out of love. It's guiding me to take a particular action to help whatever that action looks like. I like what Aaron had said about, are we talking about poor in spirit versus rich in spirit, like the Pharisee and the publican? Are we talking about poor in goods? Because here's King Benjamin saying, we are all beggars and don't look at a beggar and say, you brought this upon yourself. When I was a bishop, I think I spent more time struggling

with how to really help than a lot of other things. Let me just say it that way. Am I helping or am I just helping somebody continue in this path? The church has a book called Providing the Lord's Way. I bet I read it a dozen times because like you, Hank, I had that desire. I want to do the right thing. I had access to the fast offering funds. I wanted to do that right. I learned a lot about trying to move people towards self-sufficiency, which was not an easy process. I sure love the idea of a bishop who has keys, who is blessed with the gift of discernment, sitting face-to-face with someone who needs help. There used to be a sign at the exit of the Salt Lake Temple that said,

please don't give to the panhandlers. And it said that the local relief agencies would prefer that you give to them because they know how to really help. Sometimes we can help somebody stay poor and not really help. And that becomes a whole issue for somebody else on their podcast. But I love the idea of a bishop being able to sit face to face with someone, really struggle and pray and figure out how can they help. I had a previous bishop that served in my ward, Bishop Marsh, who helped me a ton. He said, have somebody come in that needs financial help. Get out a yellow pad and ask him, what do you need? And then write down everything they say. And he says, then get on your knees together and ask these questions.

What do we need God to do? What do we need the church to do? And what do I need to do, this person who came to see you? And that was a wonderful revelatory experience to be able to say, yeah, the church has resources, but what do we need God to do for you? And what does God need you to do for yourself? That became a very wise way to handle some of those situations. I think there's a verse here I've always loved that King Benjamin is talking about the importance of the intents of our heart. Speaking of, you know, you see a beggar.

In verse 24 of Mosiah 4, he says, I say unto the poor who have not, and yet of sufficient, that you remain from day to day, I mean all you who deny the beggar because you have not, I would that you would say in your hearts that I give not because I have not, but if I had, I would give. That verse actually blessed me when I was a young single adult, because it wasn't about giving to a beggar, but it was, I want this blessing. Hopefully, that will count for something, because those intents are important to us. Do you remember the story, Hank, that President Packer told about a young couple, oh man, who were told they would not be able to have children of their own. And President Packer, as they wept and counseled with him when they were leaving,

President Packer said, you're a very blessed young couple. And the young man turned around, how could you say that? And he said, because you want them. And in the eternal scheme of things, that will make a much greater difference than you suppose. There are some listeners out there who would love to do this, this, this. And King Benjamin says, yeah, I know. Say in your hearts, I would do that if I could. That's why I love that verse. I think that, again, the intents of your heart count for something.

Even if you can't do all that you'd like to do, the intents of your heart count for something. Even if you can't do all that you'd like to do, the intents of your heart count. And later on in verse 27, it is not expedient that you run faster than you have strength. There's a wonderful talk given 10 years ago by Jefferey Holland, Are We Not All Beggars? This would be a great talk to read this week. He brings up King Benjamin. He says, we can, as King Benjamin taught, cease withholding our means because we see the poor as having brought their misery upon themselves. Perhaps some have created their own difficulties, but don't the rest of us do exactly the same thing? Isn't that why this compassionate ruler asks, are we not all

beggars? Don't we all cry out for help and hope and answers to prayers? Don't we all beg for forgiveness for mistakes we have made and troubles we have caused? Don't we all implore that grace will compensate for our weakness, that mercy will triumph over justice, at least in our case? Little wonder that King Benjamin says we obtain a remission of our sins by pleading to God who compassionately responds. But we retain a remission of our sins by compassionately responding to the poor who plead to us. And then John, he brings up what you just talked about. He says, Now, lest I be accused of proposing quixotic global social programs or endorsing panhandling

as a growth industry, I reassure you that my reverence for principles of industry, thrift, self-reliance, and ambition is as strong as that of any man or woman alive. We are always expected to help ourselves before we seek help from others. Furthermore, I don't know exactly how each of you should fulfill your obligation to those who do not or cannot always help themselves. But I know that God knows, and He will help you and guide you in compassionate acts of discipleship if you are conscientiously wanting and praying and looking for ways to keep a commandment he has given us again and again. I love that talk. I remember that. I know that God knows because really, sometimes it comes down to an individual. A little further down, he says, Such a sermon demands that I openly acknowledge the unearned, undeserved, unending blessings in my life, both temporal and spiritual.

Like you, I have had to worry about finances on occasion, but I have never been poor, nor do I even know how the poor feel. Furthermore, I do not know all the reasons why the circumstances of birth, health, education, and economic opportunities vary so widely here in mortality. But when I see the want among so many, I do know that there but for the grace of God go I. I also know that I am not my brother's keeper. I am my brother's brother. And because I have been given much, I too must give. Isn't that beautiful?

That is awesome. Are We All Not Beggars, October of 2014. I had a guy come in once that was in a mariachi band. He had one of them huge guitars with a huge belly that makes it resonate. It was stolen. He came in to see me. And the thing was, I'm praying about it and everything. I'll tell you, I got the answer so clear by that man of guitar.

Because it was his livelihood. It was his job and he wanted to work. Well, it reminds me of Mother Teresa. God isn't concerned with statistics. Not like, well, what can one person do? Well, what they can. It's like the she has done what she could idea. You know, my wife will frequently send a plate of food out to one of our neighbors.

She doesn't feed the whole world. Statistically speaking, she didn't feed anything or anyone. But to that person, it matters. Yeah, this is the efforts of a Zion-like community that are doing their best to try and make sure that there are no poor among them. This is a principle that we witness throughout scripture. We witness it in the early days of Genesis. We witness it all the way into the restoration. And God took very seriously the injunction and the commission that we need to care for the poor and the needy, and to bring all people, as it says here in Mosiah, under one head. I guess that really is our challenge and our commission is to figure out how we can do that amongst diversity, how we can make diversity

in different situations, in different circumstances in life, to create that equality that enables all of us to be not strangers, but citizens in the kingdom of God, in the way that we treat each other, in the way that we take care of each other, in the way that we take seriously that commission to be one and unified in those purposes that have created a community now that's going to experience peace for the next three years of their lives. That's wonderful. I loved this story about helping the poor. I've got a book about the Beatitudes that Brad Wilcox and his brother, Roger Wilcox,

wrote. When Roger served as a bishop, he received a call from a man who lived within the ward boundary but was not a member. The man had just gotten out of prison and said, some of my buddies in prison told me if I needed help starting a new life, I should call a Latter-day Saint bishop. Roger invited the Elder's Quorum president to join him on a visit to the man's apartment. They asked, how can we help? With great humility, the man said he needed a job. The Elder's Quorum president called a brother in the ward who laid brick, and the brother said he would hire the man. The ex-convict

was flabbergasted. He then said, I have a car, but it's not running. I'm going to need it to get to my job. Roger and the Elderscorn president made another call to a mechanic in the ward who said he would come and look at the car later that evening. The former prisoner could not believe it. Finally, the man looked down at his beat-up jeans and tank top and said, these are all the clothes I have. I don't think I should show up for work like this. Roger called and invited the Relief Society president to join them at Desert Industries, where they got the man some more suitable clothes. At that point, the man broke down in tears. He said, I can't believe you've done all this to help me when you don't even know me. Roger responded, I couldn't have helped you on my own,

neither could the Elders Quorum president or the Relief Society president. It's through the organization of the Church of Jesus Christ that good and caring people can pull together to help. We trust that you want to start a new life and we want to help. Through his tears, the man said, thank you. I won't let you down. I love that. I have another talk to reference, Elder Kieran, Refuge from the Storm, April 2016. He was talking about how we sometimes get used to hearing about

the poor. He says the reality of these situations must be seen to believed. He's talking about his assignment in Europe. He said, in winter, I met, amongst many others, a pregnant woman from Syria in a refugee transit camp, desperately seeking assurance that she would not need to deliver her baby on the cold floors of the vast hall where she was housed. Back in Syria, she had been a university professor. And in Greece, he goes on, I spoke with a family still wet, shivering and frightened from their crossing in a small rubber boat from Turkey. And then Elder Kieran says, after looking into their eyes and hearing their stories, both of the terror they had fled and of their perilous journey to find refuge, I will never be the same. And then he asks the question that we

asked earlier. If you are asking, what can I do? Let us first remember that we should not serve at the expense of our families and our other responsibilities, nor should we expect our leaders to organize projects for us. But as youth, men, women, and families, we can join in this great humanitarian endeavor. And then he goes on throughout the talk about things that we could do to help others. John, I'm not hoping anybody listens to our podcast and walks away going, well, now I feel guilty. What do you always say, John? Pack your bags. Pack your bags.

We're going on a guilt trip. We're going to go on a guilt trip. But there could be a time when the spirit touches you and says, this is how you can help the poor. I know there are many teenagers and many others who struggle with mental illness, and they are part of that group, the poor, that we can reach out to and help. I know for my students at BYU, President Reese and also President Meredith up at BYU-Idaho are both talking about this epidemic of loneliness. Here you have these campuses full of tens of thousands of students, and they're lonely. They're struggling. They're suffering. I don't think there's an end to the good we can do for the poor, no matter how that's defined. Aaron, you said something earlier that maybe you could comment on again. Can you comment on an Aaron Shade quote? We can't help others if we

don't help ourselves. Sometimes we can run ourselves into the ground. I frequently tell people you can't draw water from an empty well. So we won't have energy to give our families and neighbors and friends if we don't take care of ourselves. Yeah. Sometimes it's really easy to go out and give. Sometimes it's really hard to receive. I don't know about your experience, but sometimes you keep thinking, I got this. I can do this. I can get through this.

Until you realize you can't. But sometimes you keep thinking, I got this. I can do this. I can get through this. Until you realize you can't. And that you may be a little more in need than you thought you were. Or that life has just piled up to a point where you say, you know what? I really need help at this stage in my life. If we keep trying to run and run and run and we're out of gas and there's no strength. And then we start telling ourselves, well, you're failing. You're not doing enough. And it's like right now I'm doing everything I can and that has to be okay at this point in my life. Maybe it's time to start receiving that gift a little bit better. And for me personally, a lot of times it starts

with being able to receive the atonement, to recognize that I need help from God. And then when those occasional knocks on the door come that says, hey, I kind of feel like I need to be running, someone needs to be running to me right now. It could be self-defeating and you dig a deeper, deeper hole. And I guess that's the challenge that all of us face is being able to be sensitive to those promptings that say, I need to go help. And at this stage in my life, I need help that I'm willing to receive. I love it. Well said, Aaron. I'd like to

ask you both about another verse, if that's okay. We talked about King Benjamin's sermon on how to treat the poor. In chapter five, there's an interesting thing that happens. They said that this mighty change is coming upon them because of the spirit of the Lord. They're losing their desire for sin. And then in verse three, it says, through the spirit, we have great views of that which is to come. What stands out to you there? I spoke to a group of youth about this and I asked them about how do you feel about the future? What do you see? Are you excited? And I'll be honest, not many were excited about the future. It was more fear than anything. I said, what are you scared of? And it's the fear of, am I going to get married? If I do get married, is that marriage going to last? The fear of

employment. What am I going to do? Where am I going to live? The future was filled with fear. Yet I read in verse three, we have great views of that which is to come, which obviously might be talking about the Savior coming. These people live before his coming. Any thoughts on that? I don't know the exact meaning of what that is. It sounds like this could be something apocalyptic. It could be a massive vision. I mean, they've already been told by the words of an angel that not far from hence and the Savior of the world is coming. And maybe that is a part of the revelation. Maybe that is a part of the great view that's coming.

And maybe closer to home that the manifestation of his spirit gives us great views of that which is to come. Sometimes that vision of tomorrow, maybe that is the great vision, that tomorrow will be better than today, that there's hope through the challenges we face in life, and that hope comes from the greater vision of what it is that Christ can do for us, what it is that it feels like to have a manifestation of the love of God in our lives. I truly do believe that they are talking about manifestations that could be future visions of things, maybe with their families, maybe with things that are coming, maybe with challenges that are on the horizon. Maybe it is the hope that they can feel for the next three years where they're going to have peace. And that's, I think, what's so exciting about the manifestations of the Spirit.

It can give us those glimpses of what we need to see, when we need to see them, and how we need to see them. Sometimes for me, it's like tomorrow, I'll get through today, and tomorrow we'll start over. It could be something that simple, and something as great as I just had confirmed to me a witness that the Messiah has come, he will come, and that brings me a peace that helps me get through my life, and that becomes a precious revelation. I understand that feeling about the future.

Will I get married? Will that marriage end? I see too much of that going on. The second coming sounds scary to me. Where would you go to get help for that? Well, you know where you would go. You would go to God. I love what Sherry Dew said. You go to sources that only speak truth.

Is it, well, maybe the answer is more social media in my life. No. You go to sources that only speak truth. Go to God. Go to the prophets. Do they look worried? Do they convey that in general conference? Watch President Nelson. Then you'll have some great views and you'll see a happy optimism about the future. You'll also see, hey, get on the path and think celestial. That's what comes to mind. Yeah, I understand that, how you can look ahead and be fearful. So where would you go? Go to God. Yeah. I wondered what you both would think. Aaron, you even started our episode today by

talking about the suffering that people go through and how to get through that and having come out better for it because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I have a couple of dear friends who frequently have to make a very long drive from Escalante, Utah, all the way to Primary Children's Hospital in Salt Lake to take their little sweetheart daughter. I can't imagine that long drive back and forth and how scary that must be. The fear. I wonder if these chapters are saying, when you become his, you're going to be okay because you're his. No matter what the circumstances with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, it was, but if not. So we have listeners out there who are folding laundry or doing dishes or on a commute, and they have their own crosses to bear. How does this lesson speak to them? My feeling is, as you're sharing that story, my heart goes out to that family, to that dear little daughter that they take up there, because we all have so many burdens that we carry, and trying to stay optimistic through all of those can be overwhelming. And yet,

through adversity, maybe Mosiah 3-7 can give us us some comfort not knowing what the outcome is not knowing what we're going to experience in the future but that Christ will suffer temptations pain of body hunger thirst fatigue more than any can suffer except it be unto death. Sometimes the greatest thing that can bring us comfort is to know that it's easy to feel like no one understands us. It's easy to feel like no one understands the burden I bear. And reality is, is we probably don't, especially in some of these scenarios that are so difficult and so challenging. But the one person who does

understand is Jesus. And that's something that can be an anchor in our lives through the uncertainty, through the times where we struggle to hope, where we struggle to see optimism. There's something about knowing that somebody experienced all of that, that truly does understand. And to be able to have that source to turn to peace for is priceless. It doesn't make the challenge go away. It doesn't mean that we're still not experiencing these, but it seems like it can be an anchor in our lives that allows us to feel some semblance of peace through the most difficult of circumstances. Thanks, Aaron.

Thank you for saying that, Aaron. Thank you for that Stephen Robinson quote. There are so many going through so much out there. And those verses that you read in Mosiah 3, you know what it reminded me of is Alma 7 too. Alma's talking to the saints in Gideon and talks about Jesus. He'll go forth suffering pains, afflictions, temptations, infirmities, sicknesses of every kind. And then it has that phrase that he may know how to sucker his people. When I was a kid and I heard the word sucker, I thought that's what the teller put in the thing for my mom when we went through the drive-thru. That's a lollipop. The S-O-C-C-O-R, the sucker, he'll know how to sucker his people. It was so fun to find the 1828 Webster's dictionary definition of that was, it says literally to run to,

so that he would know how to run to his people in their time of need. And that's the kind of savior that we have, who has experienced all this so that he would know how to run to us, which is beautiful and powerful and gives you that assurance you're not alone in this. There's purpose in suffering. Before we leave, we have no more disposition to do evil. Now, I have looked again and again in every Book of Mormon I've ever owned for an order form so that I know how to get that. And I haven't found one. I think I know now, but I've always wondered, is that permanent? Because I have listened to a conference talk or two where I felt exactly like that. But then I had to go back to work and back to school and back to everything else. I think this is a wonderful event in their life, but it's still part of a process. What do you guys think about that?

Speaking from experience, these can be short-lived sometimes. These no more dispositions to do evil. And all it takes is the next major event to try every ounce of energy you have to withstand that desire to a Kung Fu Panda. My fist hungers for justice. And there's just something about this equation. I look at it and say, you know what? If I had a day that I felt like that, no more disposition to do evil, that was a good day. Maybe I can have another day soon like that. No more disposition to do evil. That was a good day. Maybe I can have another day soon like that. I think that that's what these chapters are about is a process of life that we try and we try and we try and realize that we don't run out of tries, that we get to keep going, get to keep moving. We get to fall short. And when we do, we have a Father there who loves us, who cares about

us, who welcomes us. I love what you said there, John, about the sucker means to run to, to come to. And inside of these verses, we learned about coming to God as a little child. I thought about running because when I was working at BYU Hawaii, I used to come home every day about the same time. I'd walk and I'd turn the corner down Moana Street. Yes, I lived on a street called Moana. As I did, I'd have these three little kids running down the street yelling, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy. They would come and hug and squeeze me. And it was the most remarkable part of my day. And I wonder if as Jesus runs to us, as God runs to us, if we could run to him and be humble like a little child that simply says, I want to see daddy today. And that could be something that really binds us to God

through our weaknesses. And maybe those days of wanting no more disposition to do evil become more frequent than not. Beautiful. Wow, Aaron, what a great statement. Aaron, this has been absolutely wonderful. There's one way for me to know that I'm feeling the Spirit, and that is I don't want it to end. I just want to keep going. Let's keep talking. But we know you have a lot going on. But before we let you go, tell us about the Book of Mormon and how you feel about it. Here you've had this incredible education into the ancient world. And here you are a believer in the Book of Mormon. So I think our listeners would want to hear about that. To me, it means everything because early on in my

life, I had some very powerful experiences where a seminary teacher challenged me to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. I had some very sacred experiences where I remember, now I was 14 years old, I'll really never forget this experience. It's been almost four decades and I still remember it like it was yesterday. It was that powerful. But I remember kneeling down and praying, was this the word of God? And I remember that the answer came so clearly, so powerfully. I've rarely experienced anything like it since. But the resounding answer of yes, I'm answering your question question and the answer is yes and yes i'm mindful of you and yes i understand that you're asking this because i was trying to

talk myself out of you know am i just imagining this and it was i'm answering your question and i don't get the burning of the bosoms often i don't't get the shakes often, but this was one of those experiences that was so powerful that I've never ever questioned the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon since. And it's just an experience that's drawn me to its power over the years. Even to this day, I consider it an old friend, one that is nearby, one that is comforting. And the last five years of my life have been pretty difficult for me, particularly the last two and a half years of losing family members and experiencing some really difficult trials. There were nights where they were sleepless. I couldn't do anything to find comfort.

I would find myself listening to the Book of Mormon. And it's not like I could focus easily. It's not like I could focus quickly. But when I could finally hear the words coming off of that page, I received a comfort and a peace that actually allowed me to rest some nights. For me, it's always been a book of power, one that could help me overcome feelings that felt insurmountable and bring at least some measure of peace amongst the adversities of life. But I've always felt a strong connection to God as I've immersed myself in the Book of Mormon. And it's given me a strength that I simply can't find anywhere else. Thank you for that, like an old friend. Aaron, thanks for spending time with us today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. John, what a great day. At least for the next little while, I will have no more disposition to do evil.

After talking with you two about this, I feel like maybe something similar to King Benjamin's people. It just, this feels really good. And I feel at peace and like I can move forward. Yeah. Keep going. We want to thank Dr. Aaron Shade for being with us today. Absolutely wonderful. These chapters are changed for me. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorenson, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorenson,

and we always remember our founder, Steve Sorenson. We hope you'll join us. We're going to keep going into the book of Mosiah on follow him. Before you skip to the next episode, I have some important information. This episode's transcript and show notes are available on our website, followhim.co. That's followhim.co. On our website, you'll also find our two books, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament and Finding Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Both books are full of short and powerful quotes and insights from all our episodes from the Old and New Testaments. The digital copies of these books are absolutely free. You can watch the podcast on YouTube. Also, our Facebook and Instagram accounts have videos and

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