followHIM - Philippians • Professor Lori Denning • Oct 9 - Oct 15

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

What does it mean to be a Christian? As Paul writes from prison to the Philippians and Colossians, Professor Lori Denning explores rejoicing despite trials and grace and learning to lean on the Atonement of Jesus Christ.Show Notes (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese): https://followhim.co/new-testament-episodes-41-52/YouTube: https://youtu.be/H4SZTPaPh5AFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/15G9TTz8yLp0dQyEcBQ8BYPlease rate and review the podcast!00:00 Part 1–Professor Lori Denning02:49 Introduction of Professor Lori Denning04:22 Background to Philippians and Colossians09:45 Paul and Joseph Smith11:59 Roman armor and Alexander’s father14:55 Lydia and selling purple18:47 Philippians 1:120:18 Tips for reading Paul’s letters21:44 Philippians 1:3-4, 1123:20 Justice and righteousness27:06 Rejoice amidst trials30:00 Alive in Christ32:51 Community and mourning39:22 Professor Denning shares a personal story of her mission43:13 A song in Philippians 245:36 Chiasmus or “hamburger” poem47:06 Star Wars musical motifs and musical themes51:07 Background to the poem 55:27 The middle and the love of God56:55 Professor Denning shares a personal story about brain surgery1:01:19 Elder Bateman and the Atonement of Jesus Christ1:03:56 Joseph in Egypt and Jesus1:07:35 Philippians 3:13-141:11:07 President Benson’s “Beware of Pride”1:14:47 End of Part I–Professor Lori DenningThanks to the followHIM team:Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignAnnabelle Sorensen: Creative Project ManagerWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name's Hank Smith. I'm here with the extraordinary John, by the way. Hi, John. Hi, Hank. How are you? Yeah, good. We are back for another week of Follow Him. John, the lesson this week is entitled, I Can Do All Things Through Christ Which Strengtheneth Me. When you hear that phrase from Paul, what do you think of? Yeah, I love the title of that. And I think that sometimes in the self-help world, they might say, I can do all things and stop right there. And this is, I can do all things

through Christ. A lot of things that we really can't do by ourselves, and we're confronted with that in the gospel, but with Christ, we can do things we normally couldn't do. So that's what it makes me think about. Yeah, my experience tells me when I'm left to myself, it usually doesn't go all that well. Yeah, exactly. I can't do anything. John, we are joined by a Bible expert this week. I call her almost Dr. Lori Denning because she is still in school for religious studies

in Claremont, which we can talk about here in a second. Lori, what are we looking forward to in these lessons? Thanks for asking. These are some of the best lessons. We are going to do Philippians and Colossians. You can pronounce those any way you want. And we're going to highlight what it's like to be a young member or how to live within a community that is not

all your own. So if you're a member of the church and you're saying, I don't feel like I belong, how do I live as a Christian? How do I live in that community? And how do I fit in? And how does Christ reflect back through me? We're going to really say, this sounds like something we probably do a lot of today. How do I fit in? How am I supposed to be a light to those people? And how do I learn about Christ and then reflect that back? We're going to land on two different communities that live pretty far apart, but the Philippians and the Colossians, the people that live in Philippi and Colossae, we're going to learn about what it was like for them and how they were supposed to kind of mediate

that crazy jungle that they lived in. Wow. I'm already getting excited about this. I'm looking forward to it more than I was. Okay. Well, and just to, you know, a little teaser, still listen, we're actually going to do some songs. They're actually, both of these actually have some songs and poetry in them. I know you're thinking it's just letters, but these would be the musicals, the West Side Story slash Hamilton of the ancient world.

Wow. Okay. Now even more exciting. This is great. I know. It doesn't need more prompting. Of course, you guys, the main focus is going to be the Savior. We're going to learn some of the deepest doctrines, some of the key items about what it means to be Christ and what Christ does for us in the redemption and the atonement.

So it's some really key, key things are in the letters we're going to read today. Awesome. John, Lori is new to the podcast. Why don't you let our listeners know who she is, where she's from? Give us a bio. This is one of the funnest bios I've ever read. It's, it's, and I'll just read it the way it is. I don't even have to add fun to my voice or

anything. Lori L. Denning is a scholar and scripture enthusiast pursuing her PhD in ancient scripture at Claremont Graduate University with a master's degree in theology from Gonzaga University. She's written three books, including the Real Heroes series and teaches at BYU. Lori also appears as a frequent podcast guest and hosts the video series, The Bible Brief. Such a dedicated nerd, I'm quoting here, Lori even sings biblical Hebrew for fun. I think that's a preview of what's coming.

A native of San Diego, her adventurous spirit is seen in her love for dirt bikes, karaoke, and chocolate. With an identical twin, the cute one she claims, and a mission in Barcelona, Spain, Lori's vibrant personality and diverse interests shine in everything she does. That's a fun buy, Hank. I haven't had one that fun. Yeah, that's exciting. A dedicated nerd, a scripture nerd who sings biblical Hebrew on her dirt bike while eating

chocolate. So this is going to be great. I didn't say did them all at once. I mean, that would be like the triathlon of nerddom. Instead, I just like all of those things, not all at once. We thought maybe we'd get more people watching on YouTube instead of just listening. Yeah, if they could see that. If we promised that, yeah.

We like Bible nerds at Follow Him. We do. Yeah, we've had many of them on. We won't name them by name, but we've had many of them on the show. Laurie, let's jump right in. The manual has a start in Philippians and then moving to Colossians. Do we need some background before we come into this, do you feel like? Or should we just jump right in?

I think we do. I think we're going to need some background. And I think it helps because I think if we set up what's going on, we can kind of imagine ourselves in the story. So let's do two things. You guys, let's start with Philippians and then let's kind of set what's going to happen because it's a letter. So the first thing we know when we get these letters is I always try to think it's like we're reading someone's mail. So you're like, I'm only getting one side of the story. So we're going to do a little bit on what we think they were like, right? And what we know about them. And we hear some enacts about them,

but I also want to think, uh, Paul tells us about what's happening. He is in prison. We're going into this period of the letters that he's in prison. Some people think Rome, I actually think he's in Ephesus, but he's in prison and he is really suffering at a certain point. He's like, I'm about done. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to survive. And so we think he was in prison for a number of years. He hears about this community that he had started. A visitor comes and they send a donation to him. Prisons weren't like they were here. You don't get three hots and a cot. Anciently, you were in prison and you were stuck forever. And so your friends or family had to bring food, bring money.

And so one of the churches that he had started in a city, Philippi, we'll talk about that in a second, sends him a donation of food and they bring it to him. It's like his old branch as a missionary sends him this donation that he writes them a letter. He knows them. He loves them. He started the church there. So if you can just put yourself in the imagine, we're the Philippians, we're living there and our old missionary, the one that we loved and brought us to the savior, we find out is in trouble.

So we gather a donation, we send it and we send this letter. And then you're like, I have this little tiny piece of paper or, you know, papyrus, whatever, and I am going to just pack it. So it's going to be this super jam-packed, dense letter of what can I tell them? Not only what can I tell them about how much I love them, but what can I tell them that's going to help them the most about being members of the church, being Christians, and about the Savior? Okay. This is exciting. I like the idea of reading someone else's mail, although I know today it's a very serious crime. I think it's a felony. So just so everybody knows, we're reading someone else's mail here, but don't do that in general. Don't do that. Don't try this at home. And I think if I were writing a letter from prison, that kind of a prison, I think I would say, dear Philippians, get me out of here. Yeah.

I don't know how you're going to do it, but help me escape. Can you send a file and a cake next time and not just a snack? Yeah. And instead, he wants to edify them. He wants to teach them. He wants to encourage them and kind of gives us an insight into Paul a little bit. I'm glad both of you were bringing this up that Paul was in prison just at the opening of the come follow me manual. It says Paul wrote his epistles to the Philippians and the Colossians while he was a prisoner in Rome. And then John, you mentioned this, but these letters don't have

the tone you might expect from someone in prison. Paul spoke more about joy, rejoicing, and thanksgiving than he did about afflictions and trials. Christ is preached, he said, and I therein do rejoice and will rejoice. Wow, that just shows us a lot about Paul and his attitude in great difficulty. I wish I could have that kind of attitude in great difficulty.

But don't you think that's unique? If you're the Philippians and you're like, we just joined this little nascent baby church and our leader is in jail. And not only that, but our savior was just crucified. Culturally, this would be really tough. It reminds me of the restoration. Joseph Smith, he's writing from jail and he's writing some of the most inspired, the most uplifting documents, even while he's suffering. It seems like we're always

having to really live in the world, but not of the world. Very similar to Joseph. I'm glad you said that because I was thinking of the last couple of verses of section 123. Let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power, and then may we stand still and be cheerful in liberty jails. That's a good comparison. I know from my study of the Doctrine and Covenants and church history that Joseph Smith was a big fan of Paul. Them having parallel moments here is- Yeah, I think she gives you the kind of empathy that you don't really want, is that you're living through similar experiences and I'd rather miss those, but I can appreciate them.

But how profound that there are these times of struggle. Now, here's something interesting is that Paul isn't like, this is great. And how wonderful and it's kind of, you know, terrible. He talks about it, especially in Galatians, he talks about how bad it was, where he was nearly at the point of breaking. He even writes at the end of this letter to the Philippians that he's like, I'm going to send Timothy, we'll talk about him in a second, but I'm going to send Tim to you. Well, I'm hoping to make it, but I might die. And it might be really soon. If you were in prison in the Roman system, chances are you weren't getting out. And the only way out is death. You're waiting, not because they hold you there, you're waiting for trial. And then it's trial and execution typically. So he's thinking this might be it for me. He's living with this really real burden of suffering and maybe death. And just knowing that, I love what you said there,

John, with the end of section 123, because it's that diversity, like even, and then I can rejoice in the Savior. I can rejoice in the gospel. And that's just permeates the letter. But if you don't remember that, then we don't see how is he going to do that? And here we can see an application right out of the gate. Don't we all have times that life's going to be pretty tough? And if we don't, wait a minute, because it's coming. And so we say, wow, here's a letter that could be written today to me when I'm having a tough time, when my family's struggling, when I don't know where my next meal's coming from, when my job is at risk, or I'm feeling stress and anxiety and illness or whatever it is. Paul's like, oh, that's a letter for me because Paul was doing the same thing.

We think this is a 2000 year old letter could be written to me today. Excellent. What's interesting too, Hank, is we have received not a few comments from people who are literally in prison that listen and find some hope and some healing and thinking of you today and hoping this will help you. And you have something in a way common with Paul, perhaps, of looking for some hope and some help from your circumstance. I just think that's fascinating. Christ was sent to liberate the captives and not always physically, but we can be liberated

in our souls. If you don't realize the oppression and sadness that they were living under, especially Paul here, then I think you don't understand the joy that sadness that they were living under, especially Paul here, then I think you don't understand the joy that he's going to talk about. Laurie, I'm glad we're talking about this because one of our major goals with our podcast is not only do we want people to be more competent, we want to inform people and teach them, but we also hope to heal and help those who are struggling. Was it President Eyring who said, if you treat everyone as though they're going through the hardest time of their life, half the time you'll be right or something like that. Those of you who are out there who are struggling, I love that

Lori is speaking to you. I hope you'll listen here today. So Lori, what do we do next? That was kind of setting us up emotionally. Let's take a step back and let's talk about who these people were in a little bit of context. So for those of you who are watching on video, I actually have a prop so that you can remember Philippi. So I'm putting on my Roman centurion's helmet. So for those of you listening, you can just imagine a beautiful, shockingly beautiful woman. That's me.

And I am wearing a literal 16 gauge steel Roman helmet with the red thing on the top and everything. It looks great, Lori. Those of you watching on YouTube will agree with me. This looks fantastic. Look at where I'm at. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. It weighs – it actually is really hard on my neck. It's so heavy.

But that's just to remind you that these were Romans. Here's the thing I didn't know when I was growing up. I didn't know when it put like an N's on the end that it's the people that lived there. So instead of Philippites, right? We would say like the Lamanites, the Philippites, they're the Philippians, but I get it when they do Rome, Rome, Romans, Philippi, Philippians, Colossae, Colossians, right? Ephesians. They lived in Ephesus. See where that went? I guess I didn't put that together. Yeah. Cause I was like, they weren't the Jerusalems. I didn't get it. But they're just the people that live there. Philippi is actually in Northern Greece. It's named after Alexander

the Great's dad, Philip. So it's the Philippians. And it was actually a place that there was a little civil war that went on after Julius Caesar. If you kind of come up from Turkey and you have like Constantinople and then the Middle East, Istanbul today, whichever time period you're in, then up along that edge is the city Philippi. And there's another one, Neapolis, Berea, and Thessalonica. So you're going to hear the Thessalonians. So it's all up in this little chain. And then you would go across like a little narrow neck of land and it jumps over and then just you're almost across the adriatic from rome so that's this little thoroughfare that people would go

through so it was a very popular little area that they would go to go to rome but it was it was popular with romans because of this civil war so here's everybody just pause if you don't want to know nerd stuff for those of you who went nerd, just zoom in for about two more minutes. Julius Caesar, Mark Antony, Cleopatra, that whole story. And they had a battle even right here in the city. And there in Philippi though, they're like, well, what do we do with all these soldiers, these retired Roman soldiers? They get a plot of land when they retire. What should we do with them? Well, we don't want them back in Rome because then if there's another uprising, they would just have like a whole army of men ready to go. They put them out somewhere far. So this kind of far from Rome and they would settle. So it was this Roman colony and it was

super patriotic Roman. So they were super Roman. So they don't even really have a synagogue, right? So everywhere else has a synagogue where the Jews had spread out over time. They don't even have one. But if you think super patriotic Romans, that's what you would have found here. The church was actually started by a woman. I know we talked about that story, but another little highlight on Lydia. We read about them in the end of Acts. So Lydia was the seller of purple. She's like the businesswoman.

I love that. Even her whole house. She seems to be like the founding funding patroness of the church. On his second missionary journey, first one's kind of close, second one's far, third one's far. Paul had looped up there and started the church with these super Roman converts. They are super powerhouses in the gospel. They love the gospel and they always are giving money back to the poor saints in Jerusalem. They are people that just seem to get it. And Paul loves them. You're going to see that you're not very Jewish

and you're not very like these other people, but wow, do you guys get it? I love the Philippians. I'm always like, yay. I was so happy. And in fact, he yells at some of the other guys like, you should be more like the Philippians because they give a gift and you guys aren't even donating or anything to the poor saints. I just want to say that for somebody who geographically may be hearing Philippi, they may be thinking, I thought Jesus was in Caesarea Philippi. There's a couple of Caesareas mentioned, and it's hard without a map sometimes. This is the Northern Greece Philippi. Yeah.

So think Greece and think it's like a hand, a dangly hand, and it's kind of up on your wrist of the hand. It's kind of North and they called it Macedonia at the time. It's up there, kind of Northern. And that's actually where Philip grew up in that area. Everybody's named after the same two things. So there's 2000 cities called Alexandria. And then this one, they just named after his dad. That's where where you get all these Phillips and the names repeating. In my old paper scriptures, I'm looking at the map called the missionary journeys of the apostle Paul. And I can see these cities that you're talking about. And once again, it hit me, this guy was all over the place. I think I've done a cruise of that region, but I've never walked. Never walked it. Yeah. With my sandals. of that region, but I've never walked it.

Never walked it. Yeah, with my sandals. Yeah, can you imagine? Really, really far, really far. In fact, this was one of my favorite stories where Paul was with a couple of missionary companions, and he was on the other side. He's over in what we would call Turkey. It was kind of far. He's on the other side. He's way east. He has a dream where a man says, they keep going to cities, and he doesn't know. This is an ax. And he to cities and he doesn't know this is an ax. And he says, and he doesn't know where he's supposed to teach. And they're like, no, not here. No, not here.

No, not here. So they keep hiking to these next cities. And then he has a dream of a man comes to him and says, we need you come over here. That's where he goes. And then he goes to Philippi and starts the church there. And he doesn't meet a man, by the way, right? He meets a woman. Pretty cool, right?

That the Lord was preparing these people, but he passed a bunch of big cities on the way to Philippi. The Lord hears you. The Lord hears the people that are crying out and want him to find them. And he sent an apostle on foot to find them. And now they're going to return the favor and bless him with a gift, money and things to support him in prison. And he's going to write him this letter. So all of that to set up, you're going to see this richness of how much they love each other would be like us living really far afield. And one of the apostles comes for a conference talk or sends us a letter in our little town. And I just think, wow, you can feel that. You can feel that that's exactly what they

do even today is they love all of us saints, wherever we are sprinkled throughout the world. And they're going to send us a special message, but the Lord hears you and he sends his messengers to them and to us. John, you might be the only one here who remembers getting letters in the mail. There was an excitement there when you're far away in the Philippines. What was it like getting mail? And I'm just kidding, by the way. I also received mail. No, it took two weeks.

And it would take two weeks to respond. We didn't call home every week. So it was great to get a letter. It was very renewing. Change your whole day and you come home and read it again. Yeah, I can see that. Renewing, right? Good point.

A little boost. Let's read the first, let's call it paragraph. Let's do Philippians 1, and I just want to do 1 through 11. Philippians 1, starting in verse 1. Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus, which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons. Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, for your fellowship in the

gospel from the first day until now. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, in as much as both in my bonds and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. For God is my record, how greatly I long after you in all the bowels of Jesus Christ. And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment, that ye may approve things that are excellent, that ye may be sincere and without

offense till the day of Christ, being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Wow. That's a way to start a letter. One thing we remember about Paul is that it's dense. If you think about letters today, we're not quite so dense the way we write. Like we do now, we're just chatting. But they're not like that. It was hard to write. Usually had to pay somebody that was really good at it, and they could like make it fit on a little tiny document. He's going to just pack it full. One of the things that we always remember with Paul is that it's maybe not supposed

to be understood the first time you read it. It's going to be something that you might want to sit with. It's a gift that he's giving to them that they can keep reading and reading and reading and get text from. When we just read that, if you found a few things, fantastic. If you didn't, fantastic. It just means you get to read it again. He starts, hey, it's Paul and Timotheus. We know him later as Timothy. Paul and Tim, servants of Jesus Christ to all the saints. Now, saints was just a word that meant holy ones, the sacred, just like we do today. So all those who have committed their lives to Christ, all of those, I'm writing to you. And you're like, yep. And also those who are bishops and deacons.

Remember the church is just starting. So it's probably people who are serving. They're the overseer, the guy who's kind of in charge there, the bishop, and also the deacon, the one that's the service guy. Right out of the gate, we're like, hmm, service. People who are helping the saints, people are helping the new members, people are helping the new members, people are helping the new little branch in Philippi. Then we get our first theme, grace be unto you and peace from God, our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. He's sending you grace. And I am going to thank God and always in my prayer.

Verse three and verse four, I thank my God upon every remembrance of you and always in every prayer of mine, he is thanking and praying for them. And then the rest of the verses, he is thanking and praying and he is thanking and praying and not just a prayer of like, hey, hoping he is thanking the Lord for them and he is praying actively for them, an apostle. So there's just love. If you ever want to see a difference, read Galatians. It's pretty much a scolding, but to the Philippians, he's like, I just love you guys. I've just been praying for you. And I love that idea that the Lord is using that. And so you're going to see that theme and then jump down to verse 11. And he is going to come back to an interesting word

that the people are going to be filled with the fruits of righteousness. He's praying for them and he's thankful for them so that they can have something be filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ unto the glory and praise of God. This is our theme. You guys, this is it. Underline that. 11. I am the apostle of the Lord. I am praying and thankful for you so that you can have something.

You're going to be filled with the fruits of righteousness. When I read that, being filled with the fruits of righteousness, I think almost that your life is full of all these good things that you're doing and that other people are doing by living the gospel. You don't have time to sin because there's just so many good things happening. If you were a Christian tree and you had fruits growing, what would they be? If I was an apple tree, I would have an apple. If I was a pear tree, I would grow a pear. If I were a Christian tree, I would have a fruit of righteousness. I think, Hank, that's what you're saying. It's like something just pours out of us that shows that we have become that. What do you think, John? What kind of fruits of righteousness have you either seen in your life or you think about with people who are really following the Savior. I went back to Galatians because the other day in Galatians 5.22, it said the fruit of the Spirit, capital S Spirit, is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness,

goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. Those are all fruits of righteousness. And I love that the idea of the very best things you could possibly want or imagine are a result of Christ in your life. On the opposite, the Book of Mormon says, the devil rewardeth you no good thing, but in Christ comes every good thing. So that's a good list. That's exactly where my mind went, too, is that Galatians, fruits of the Spirit. I think when we become changed, so remember, if we're Philippians in this example or just in our own lives, when we really embrace the Savior, it starts to change us. Things just come out of us that are better. We're a little more patient than we were.

We're a little kinder. I don't cut off the guy on the freeway like I used to. I start to be more like him. Those things, like a fruit, grow from me and the righteousness. Now, righteousness is a weird word. We use it a lot in churchy words. It's one of those weird church words that we use, like we all use it all the time, but we don't use it anywhere else.

On Old Testament terms, the idea of righteousness is justice. And it's that you're making things just, you're setting things right. You're putting how the world is tough. It's not always fair. And someone's struggling and you are setting it right. You're putting how the world is tough. It's not always fair and someone's struggling and you are setting it right. That's righteousness. Might be someone who's having a bad day. You are setting it right by helping them have a better day. It might be giving them money because they are poorer, but by no fault of their own. So you're like setting that right. You are putting them in right relationship with the Lord, where they have distanced themselves through sin.

Righteousness and justice is setting things right the way that the Lord would in his kingdom. So help people set things right. That's being righteous. Not just like, I hope I checked that box and did that thing I was supposed to do, but I look around into the world and I now see it as the kingdom of God. This new world that Christ has brought, starting now and it's to come still, but this new world, this new kingdom of God, this Zion that we're trying to build, I am helping change things. I am setting things right.

I like it. It's rightness or making it right. Righteousness and justice are the same word. You think of that, I'm setting things right. I'm making it just and fair, even when it always hasn't been. I can set it right just like God would. He's saying, I'm hoping that that's what you're going to get. That's what you should start to live like, hey, dear Philippians. Hey, dear Lori. Hey, dear Hank, John. Hey, you listening. I am praying and thankful so that you can start to see that in your own life. I love it. All right. The next section, I just want to touch on kind of his theme, 12 through 18 in chapter one.

He's just going to say basically, dear family, the king is being announced, the new king, Jesus Christ. Not the Roman ruler, not the president of your country, not the prime minister, the new Jesus that you follow. He's being announced. And I want you to start to think differently. Now that you're part of this new community, the saints, I want you to think differently. We're going to set aside that other stuff. So he's kind of setting them up to think differently. That's what I kind of think for that next section. But let's jump to 18 to 26 to say how that's going to work, because we're setting up this next big leap into this poem, this big idea about Jesus Christ. Paul realizes where we are when we're setting up this next big leap into this poem, this big idea about Jesus Christ.

Paul realizes where we are when we're struggling, when things are challenging, and yet we're trying to live this new life of righteousness and justice and being saints. So 18, he says, what then? Notwithstanding every way, whether it pretense or in truth, Christ is preached, and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. He's just saying, well, even though challenging things are different in our lives, he's saying, what am I supposed to do with that? Even if you're suffering, even if things are tough, rejoice. And that should cause us a little bit of pause. Wait a minute, Paul. When things are

really tough, you want me to like, woohoo. Is that kind of discounting my struggles? And he's like, well, hold on. Let's keep reading and see what he says about that. So he's saying, even when I'm struggling, you should rejoice. And he says, okay. And here's this next verse, 19. For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer and the supply of the spirit of Jesus Christ. He turns it on its head a little bit. Even though things are tough in your life, he's saying, I know that this shall turn to

salvation through your prayer, that even though tough things are going to happen, this can work out to your benefit. This can work to help save you, change you, and really through prayer. And how is it? It's the spirit of Jesus Christ. And this is one of the only references, by the way, of the spirit in all of Philippians. I think what he's saying here is that even when we're crushed and in despair in our lives, we can still say, I'm wrestling with these things. Now, don't forget, Paul wrestled really with these. He was not like a guy that was like not suffering. He talks about it a lot. Second Corinthians one, I was nearly giving up you guys. Here's a guy that suffered. And he's saying, what do you do

when you're in that? He says, in Laurie E's, I shall turn it to salvation. How? Through the spirit of Jesus Christ. Now we might not know how that works yet. He's going to tell us that in a second. But you're like, something's going to change. I can't take suffering out of your life. But somehow through the spirit of Jesus Christ, it can become something more, something more positive. He says, that's really my hope. And I know that I could be ashamed.

I could be in these tough situations like prison. That's kind of shameful. And they're living in a society when shame and honor is a big deal. Yeah, he's saying, I know it's going to seem like that, but look, we can work it out. Let's go to 21. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. What? If I live, that's great because I get to preach. He's going to talk about this at length, but I get to preach about Jesus Christ. If I die, I'm great because I get to preach. He's going to talk about this at length, but I get to preach about Jesus Christ. If I die, I'm going to be with Jesus Christ. So no matter where we are in our lives, we can have him.

The God's word translation of that verse, Christ means everything to me in this life. And when I die, I'll have even more. I like that. I do like those other translations. He says it in 23, and I'm going to read the NSRV, the New Rabbi Standard Version. He says, I am hard-pressed between the two, meaning life and death. My desire is to depart, to be with Christ, for that is far better, verse 24, but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you. Well, I'm really torn. If I

leave, I would be with Christ. But if I stay, that would be better for you because I could keep on preaching and I could keep on teaching Jesus. I'm really torn. I don't know what's better. Do I die and go with Jesus or do I stay and preach about Jesus? Tough call. Tough call. Here's something though that I think is super critical for us. A lot of times we are called to more of, we're ministers, we're ministering brothers, we're ministering sisters. We have family members, other people that we try to help. Minister is a big word for help. And I think what we do a lot of times is we erase the idea that people are suffering. And we think, well, if you're living a good life, you should just not

have any suffering. Or that if you aren't suffering, you should just bounce right back. And he's not saying that at all. What he's saying is we acknowledge that there's suffering and we sit and we hold ourselves with that suffering. We kind of say, I feel the sorrow, but our hope, our hope in the Savior helps us through the struggle. So we don't say, oh, I'm sorry, you're feeling like that, Hank or John, you'll bounce right back. I know that, you know, you had a big struggle. What we say instead is, I hear you, brother. I hear you. And that's just like Jesus. And that's just like me. And you know what? He's going to make it better through the journey, better through the journey. Verse 25, and I'm still in the New Revised Standard. Since I'm convinced of this,

he says, well, actually, I should remain because I can help you out. And then he turns it on its head. Verse 25, since I'm convinced of this, then I'm going to stay. I know that I will remain and continue with all of you for your progress and joy and faith, 26, so that by my presence against with you, your boast might abound in Christ Jesus because of me. I'm realizing that maybe I'm here for you and maybe you can feel the same thing I'm feeling. Maybe I'm suffering so that I can help you out. He's a cool guy. What do you guys think? Do we sometimes kind of erase that someone's suffering? We kind of just go, no, you'll just bounce right back because you're a member of the church. You should just not feel that way. Yeah. I'm going back to Old Testament in my mind when Job's friends, their greatest moment

was when they just came and sat with Job and didn't say a word. And as soon as they opened their mouths and tried to explain it all, everything went south. But when they just knew you're suffering, we're just going to sit with you and we won't try to explain it. We won't try to make sense of it. We won't try to blame anybody. We'll just sit with you. I think you're right. There's times when it's just so nice to know that somebody else knows what you're going through. Maybe that's important not to pass it off so quick. Oh, you'll get over it. That maybe sounds too quick. He's saying no, and he's going to talk about this suffering pretty heavy in a second but i like what you said just sit with your friends just sit there like

job and his buddies don't have anything to say but we'll be with you yeah mourn with those that mourn doesn't say cheer up those that mourn or try to explain it with those that mourn or especially tell them they sinned and that's why this is happening. I mean, that's a joke. That was a joke. You must have deserved it. This community of Jesus followers, the community that we are all in, is for everyone who's listening today, we're with you. We're mourning with you. We might not know exactly what you're feeling, but we all feel that way. And when I'm feeling bad, I can reach out and feel like, I know that there's this big community behind me that's got my back and they are suffering kind of with me and they're praying with me. And how powerful is that? There's this

community across the whole world, this network of people that are saying, I am mourning with you. I don't even know you, but brother, sister, I feel it. And wouldn't it be great if every ward, every stake felt this way. And this is what we could have. It is. And it's something that I think he's encouraging us to gain. These are those fruits of righteousness that he's talking about. I am so thankful and I'm prayerful. And these are the things that it's time for us to learn. I'm writing you this letter. I'm talking to you today on the podcast so that you can say, you can still work on it. This is what it's like to be a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is what you're being called to do.

Because there's no big, heavy theology of some like, what is it like in the premortal and some complicated thing? Paul's got this right down to the ground. This is just application. He's saying, you guys love each other, serve each other. And then he's going to go, oh, and you know actually what that's about? Jesus Christ. This is big theology. The big theology is the fruits of righteousness, is loving each other, mourning with those who mourn, and understanding where we are and serving. Be a minister. Verse 27, you may stand fast in one spirit with one mind, striving together for the faith of the gospel.

What you just said, Hank, reminds me of when you see one spirit, one mind, striving together, just that sense of Zion we're all trying to get to, which is such an aspirational thing. And we just keep trying. Yeah, he's going to build on that idea. We're still in Philippians 1, 27. Hank, will you read again the second half of 27 where it's like, I know that you're standing firm. Sure. Right in the middle of 27, that whether I come and see you or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs that you stand fast in one spirit with one mind, striving together for the faith of the gospel and in nothing terrified by your adversaries, which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation and that of God. He basically says, look, I know you're standing firm in one spirit. And this means together. I know that you're standing firm in one spirit,

striving side by side with one mind for the faith of the gospel. And you're not frightened by all those adversaries and those guys that are opposing you. You're not frightened by that, he says. And he says, for them, those guys on the outside, this is evidence of their destruction, but of your salvation and it's God's doing. I think of a little house, like a little church, and you're in the little church and you're like, I'm feeling all protected in my little church. And you've got these outside forces that press against us. Those outside forces could be big issues in the world. So you've got

poverty, you've got racism, there's a fire in some place, there's just things going on and it's just pressing in on our little community. And then he says, you're not worried about those things because instead, remember we're thinking differently. Instead, what we're doing is we're pushing out. We're all unified, our little church together. It's not just me. It's not just Hank. It's not just John. It's all of us together.

And we are reflecting back out into the world. Verse 28, you're not frightened by these adversaries at all. And for them, this is evidence of their destruction, but your salvation. While you might feel the most oppressed, remember, this is a little tiny church. This is a little tiny group. And who hasn't felt like as a member, as a Christ follower that you're like, man, I feel like I'm on a little island sometimes. I'm the only one that thinks like this. And I'm the only one that's trying. And the world's telling me how bad things are and how everything, and you're like, but I stand together in unity and I'm not worried about

those guys outside. My little house is secure. And in fact, I'm pushing back out into the world. I am pushing it back out. And it's my salvation that I can go and help them too. He's flipping it on their head. Don't like power down into a little house. You push out, you push out. And this is God's doing. This isn't even you. This is how it works. This is what it's like to be a follower of the Savior. He's going to enable us. Since we're all having the same struggle, he says, I'm sorry to hear you're still having the same thing, but no, I'm in the same boat.

And that's what that struggle means, that the struggle is pushing out into the world. There's a moment in Nephi's vision where he sees something similar, I think. This is 1 Nephi 14, verse 12. And it came to pass that I, this is Nephi, beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few because of the wickedness and abominations of the world. Then he adds in verse 14, I beheld the power of the Lamb of God that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, upon the covenant people of the Lord. They were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great the covenant people of the Lord. They were armed with righteousness

and with the power of God in great glory. They've got all these forces pressing in on them, but look at them pressing out. I like how you describe that. I love that story. It reminds me, Hank, of one of my own personal stories. I served a mission in Northern Spain. Northern Spain is like a lot of Europe where the church isn't very big. In fact, we met in my apartment, but we didn't even have much of a chapel there. It just come from a group to a branch. So we had just grown to a branch. So there were very few of us. You're a twig. You're a twig still. You're a twig. Not quite yet a branch, but just a stick. And we were very proud twig. There know, there were like just four of us missionaries there. Some great, strong members, but very small.

We had just one thing after another happen to us. We had rocks thrown at us, my companion and I, and people would yell at us like, go home. And a couple of days later, we were walking home. It was really quite late because you'd stay late in Spain because of the heat. We're walking home and I'm walking up this hill. And I just will always remember that the street lamp was above us in a steep hill. So I'm walking up the sidewalk and I'm looking at my feet because I'm like trudging up the hill and my companions a few paces ahead me. Car goes by and they're yelling at us, of course. And I feel this, I'm like, oh, and on my

chest, I was like, oh, I was really sharp pain. And I'm like, oh, I'm having like a heart attack. And I pull my hand away from my chest. And in that light from the street lamp, it's mustard. And I immediately realized what's happened. They had thrown a sandwich at me from the moving car. And you guys, it's going to make me so sad. It made me cry. And I'm not much of a crier, excuse me, but it made me cry. Like here I was just trying to share the gospel and these silly hooligans drove by and threw a sandwich at me so much that it hurt, but it hurt my soul. I'm just trying here. We just had the rocks thrown at us and now I'm having this thrown at us. I could feel what they were feeling in that moment in these letters where it's,

we're just few in number and we're trying so hard to just share something. And man, it's hard. It really just broke my heart that people didn't want to hear the message. And they took it out on me personally. And it was just a sandwich. I mean, I wasn't in jail and I didn't have anybody really hurt me. But obviously, even here 30 years later, it still affects me. It's hard. My little companion looks around like, what's wrong with you? And just took me in her arms and was like, here, Mona, it's okay. And we went home. The story doesn't end. A week later, they were doing a fireworks thing where they just have like tons of fireworks, like local fireworks, not in the sky. And they burn furniture and all these

crazy things. The king's birthday. And they lit her skirt on fire. So we didn't stay in that city anymore. They actually pulled us out of that city. But, you know, we're few and far in number. I think sometimes we think that we're bigger than we are, but the saints feel the power of the community throughout the world. That's like, that's okay. I'm on a denning. We're behind you. We're behind. We're few in numbers and we're pressing in on you, but it'll work out.

Okay. Oddly, that was one of my favorite areas, even though how hard it was, the people were so strong there. If this hearing you, Monresa, Spain, love you. They were some of my favorite people and became a real strong branch. And now there's a temple, as you know, going into Barcelona. Miracles happen. Lori, I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before, but my daughter served in France. And one day her note said, Dad, someone spit on me today.

Man, when you're the dad, it really touches you. Thank you for sharing that. That brought back that memory for maybe a lot of people out there listening that had things like that happen. But looking ahead to Philippians 2, I looked at some other translations and some of them are all indented and in poetic form, which tells me Paul's going to quote something or sing something that's a little bit different and you look excited. So what happens in Philippians 2? Yeah, you're right. It's a song. I know, just to totally change gears. I love this poem. If you had a poetry book of best hymns or best poems about the Savior, this has got to be one

of them at the top of the list. And you're right. In our King James Version, you can't really see its poetry. Now, this is my favorite part. If you think of a poem now, you do foresee that indented format-y thing that we do in, especially in English, to show that it's a poem. But in King James, it doesn't do that. So it's hard to see. But if you look at another translation, you'll see that it's a poem. Often, I used to skip the poems. I don't know about you guys, but those of you who are also Lord of the Rings fans, if you ever read Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, they're always like breaking out into song. And I used to just skip past the song and then just get back to the story. And now I realized that the song was like the story. One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them. The core thing is kind of in the poem.

Lurie, is the entire chapter a poem? Is that what you're saying? Or is there a poem in the chapter. Yeah. Six through 11 is a poem. So we're in Philippians two and Paul's going to continue talking about what it means to be kind of this saint. And then he's going to use this poem to highlight it. So think of it like this. How many conference talks have you heard it where then they quote a hymn, right? I stand on my. That's exactly what he's doing. Taking a hymn. We don't know that he wrote it.

It might've been one of the oldest hymns that we ever have. Christ hymns, sometimes called the Christ hymn. He's quoting it. He's writing the letter. He doesn't reference it. So it's probably one of those like, yeah, I Stand All Amazed. And they're like, oh, I know that. That's a hymn. Yeah, they know that. He's assuming they know this song. I think when we say poem, if you're like me, when you're young, a poem rhymes. There once was a member named Philip who, yeah, it's words of a hymn or something. It might not rhyme, but to them, it was a poem because they had probably heard it put to music. Is that fair? Yeah. Our poems have meter and rhyme. The way they rhyme is they rhyme in ideas.

Like chiasmus or something. Yeah. And actually this is a chiasmus. So let's talk about that for a second. A chiasmus is a kind of poem. It comes from the Greek letter chi, which is an X. So I'm making an X with my hands. X marks spot.

So the part in the middle is the like key point. Another good analogy for those of us who aren't Greek speakers, it's a hamburger poem. So there are two buns and the buns are kind of the same. And then there are two slices of cheese and the cheese kind of the same. And then there's the meat in the middle. The poem is the meat in the middle, but they're going to be parallels. There's going to be bun bun, cheese cheese, meat. No pun intended there. Meat in the middle.

I really, I really like meat in the middle. So it's both meat and we meet there. We meet in the middle. That's right. It's going to do just exactly that. That's what a chiasmus is. It comes from that X, but that hamburger poem. So there are these parallel ideas and then like bun, bun, cheese, cheese. And then in the middle is like the highlight. If you took a highlighter and you circled it, it would be that section that it's trying to highlight to say, this is really the point is this prayer. Even in your chapters, it's a little hard to see. So I'm going to just do a spoiler. But the spoiler is verse eight. That is the meat in the middle.

That is the points of this chapter. So we're going to get to it, but just to start with it, it says, and we're talking about Jesus. He humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. So that's the main point. That's the center point of the poem. And then he's going to kind of build up to that. But let's do one other thing before we jump into this, because this is a little bit heavy. Poems are actually like super dense. They're like really dense ideas. One thing that we're really used to in our culture is movie scores. Like we all know movie scores. So we're like, hey, I know a movie score.

And when we hear what's called a leitmotif or a motif, a little bit of music, we know that that's a character or a symbol. And these poems work the same way. Let me give you an example. If you heard... I can see you bowing your heads. You're like, yeah, I know it. Right? I know bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum Oh, it's all like an emotional scene. Do you know who it is? Luke or a Jedi. Yeah, it's a Jedi theme. It's actually called the, they use it for the force. So anytime they feel the force, it's like that song comes on. Kind of like Vader has his own song. The Imperial March.

They play it and you're like, the bad guy's here or the good guy's here, or there's a theme or an idea. Well, that's what happens in biblical poetry as well, is there are these themes. You start to get to recognize them. And the biggest theme of all is the theme of the cross. You're going to see sacrifice, the atonement, the cross, sacrifice, the atonement, the cross over and over again. And it builds and it builds and it builds and it layers and it layers. And then it puts other ideas on it and other concepts. It adds just like our score. Sometimes it's slow and sometimes it's fast and sometimes it's the whole orchestra and sometimes it's a blaring horn and sometimes it's jokey. And you're like, it's the same theme, but it builds on these ideas. Poetry works exactly the same way. And the other way that it

also works is it touches us. Because it's in something that rhymes or it's something else, it sticks with us. Do you have a hymn that you're like, if I really want to get close to the spirit, it's one of my go-tos? Mine is, and it's partly because there's a beautiful arrangement of it. I used to hear when I was a kid, my mom was in the tap choir, but it's, oh, my father, there was a beautiful arrangement with French horns. And ever since then, that's just been my favorite. Yeah. I love what you did there though, John. I think that's why music is so powerful. It's associative. You said, because there was a beautiful arrangement and they were in the choir, you're making these associations, not just with the arrangement and they were in the choir, you're making

these associations, not just with the music and not just with the song, but what it means to you. That's exactly what these things should do to us too. They're like a hyperlink, right? On a Wikipedia page where you click on it, it takes you to all the other hyperlinks. So you read about the cross or you read about these experiences and you're like, that reminds me of all those other ones. I like Abide With Me to Seventide. And that's because I really like Luke 24,

Abide With Us to Stored Evening. That's beautiful. Do you have an association with it too? Yeah. That's what Paul is so brilliant about here is that he's going to teach us more about the Savior and he's going to tie it in with this poem. Just like Luke Skywalker's theme, or just like any of these, he's going to tie it out as something that we're like, we have heard about these ideas over and over again about the sacrifice of the Savior, and we're going to learn about him. And it's deep, and it's rich, and there's just a lot to unpack.

But if we really get to the bottom of it, it's a hymn, and it should touch us at our hearts, and it should tie into those hymns. If you're not sure what this hymn means, pick your favorite sacrament hymn and replace it. And chances are, it's the same thing. You're getting the same idea. Yeah. Should we read it and see what it says? Yeah. Let's do it.

Let me set up one other idea. We talked about it being a chiasmus or a hamburger that has this point in the middle with Jesus on the cross, but it's actually two big chunks. It's kind of the top of the burger and the bottom of the burger. And there's a word right in the middle that we're going to hit, which is really, therefore, it's going to hit therefore or wherefore in verse nine, wherefore. And it's the point at which it switches. which is basically going to say all this stuff at the top is equal to all this stuff at the bottom or because of this stuff at the top, the stuff at the bottom is going to be true.

It's kind of like an equal sign. Now here's the setting. This isn't just about the savior. Paul is using the story about the savior and about his atoning sacrifice to teach us about times when we struggle. What do we do when we struggle? Well, let's look to him. So that's what we're going to do. So let's go to, I'm in Philippians two, six through 11 is our poem. And remember verse eight is that key verse, right? At verse nine is the hinge. Therefore, let's try it then with a different translation. Now, the reason I

want to use a different translation is because it's really dense material already, and the King James language just makes it denser. I need it to be a little less dense. So John, would you mind reading for us Philippians 2, and we're going to do 6 through 11. What version are you reading for us? Well, I could do the NIV, the New International Version. That's perfect. Okay. So starting in verse six, Philippians two, who being in very nature, God did not consider equality with God, something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness and

being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death, even death It's pretty dense. There's a lot going on. Let's start it right out. and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. It's pretty dense. There's a lot going on. Let's start it right out. Who, being in the very nature of God, did not consider equality with God something to be used for his advantage? That one's a little bit, I think, easier to understand. We're talking about Jesus Christ, who had all power, who was able, was the creator of the world, who could have called down, even says it right in the gospels, I could have called down legions of angels. Don't you think that I could have done that thing? And he says in this hymn, but he didn't use it to his advantage. Instead, he does something surprising. He does something different. Someone who's in power that didn't just live the high

life, take advantage of it. I was born to greatness. He's the firstborn. He could have just lived like a king and he doesn't do that. He does something remarkably and radically different. And what is it he does? Verse seven, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, a servant. He's God. He's God, Jehovah. He could have just done anything he wanted. And he takes the least, the least, the servant. Now, I don't know about you, but servants in the ancient world, probably not really well respected. The word here sometimes is even a slave. Wasn't like, ooh, well, that's okay. It's okay if you were a slave.

It's not like that. It's like he took the worst, could have done everything, and he didn't. And in fact, he did the opposite. He became a servant to all. And then he says, being made in human likeness and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death. He's not obedient because death is telling him what to do. He's obedient to his father's will. He's obedient all the way.

He could have said, well, that was close. You get the idea. I'm God after all. I don't have to do all this. He did the opposite. He becomes a servant. He becomes obedient all the way to death. You can kind of feel it, even death on a cross.

And that's the middle point, right? That's the middle point. That's the middle point. Let's talk about that. Why is this called the Christ hymn? I mean, why are we learning about this? Why, what does this teach us about the love of God? Why did Jesus do this?

I'm reminded of the idea he descended below all things so that he could rise above all things. And maybe that wherefore is that focal point right there. This is the heart of his performing the atonement, perhaps. I think you're exactly right. I'm reading the hymn in the contemporary English version, and it says, this is starting in verse seven, instead he gave up everything and became a slave when he became like one of us. And that takes me to Alma seven. He will take upon them their infirmities, their sicknesses, their pains. And why? Why would he do it? So he can know in the flesh how to succor his people. I've got to become like you so I can

truly understand you and help you. How powerful is that, that God, all-powerful Christ, can come down and do that so that he could love us. Better, yeah. Better. So I can love you more. That's a lot of love. I don't know very many people that I'd say, I really want to love you more, so let me experience every bad thing you've ever experienced. I just, that's a lot. Yeah. I think I've had the most profound

experience, personal experience of understanding the Savior with this idea. Not that he came to just free me from my sins or not that I could have faith in him, but the idea that he descended below them all so he could understand me when I was in my darkest time. I've had some dark times. I don't share the story, so I hope it's okay. But quite a few years ago, I was diagnosed with a really weird brain condition and it caused me to have just severe chronic pain. I had hydrocephalus, a form of hydrocephalus, water on the brain, but as an adult, and it has similar symptoms to having a brain tumor. I started to have really bad vision and all kinds of other things, but really an adult, and it has similar symptoms to having a brain tumor. I started to have really bad vision and all kinds of other things, but really intense pain, headaches. It just went on

for weeks and weeks and then months and months. So they did an MRI, they did all that. And they could see that it was a problem from an accident I had had as a kid. So it was a brain structural thing. I started to just have all these problems and the pain grew and grew and grew and grew. And there was no relief, not for one minute. I got harder and harder and harder. And about nine months in to this little adventure, I was on my last legs, you guys. My parents hadn't seen me for quite a while. They knew I was sick, but I was an adult. They lived out of state. And they came to see me and they're like, you don't look like you. They took me back to their neurologist and they said, we got to do something. And they said, well, the only thing we can really do is this really risky brain surgery. I know,

let's sign up for brain surgery. I was at the point where I was like, I don't think I can keep going on like this. So yeah, I'll take anything I've got. And I was at a really, really suffering. The pain was overwhelming and it never ceased. Never, not for a second. I couldn't see a way out. I didn't know what I was supposed to do. And I always thought I'd be real strong. Like when I had a, if I have a really hard thing, I'd be a really great person. No, I was miserable. I was just suffering. We meet a brain surgeon, happens to be one of two, just happens to be here locally. And he says, yep, you got the thing. And so we'll do this risky nine hour brain surgery and we'll put in a device

and we'll put a plate in your brain and all this, it'll be great. And it was really scary. And so I was on the gurney and I was waiting to be wheeled into surgery. I mean, I've got that little hat on and I'm laying there and I'm still suffering, right? I'm just feeling so bad and I'm scared. More than anything, I'm scared. I'm scared of two things. One, what if it doesn't work? And then the other, well, if it doesn't work, I hope I don't wake up. And as I sat there being so scared, my dad took my hand and he said, Lori, let Christ have this. This is the atonement. This is what it's for. And you guys, in that moment, I knew him in a way that I will never know the Savior in another way. I knew he was there with me in that moment. I knew

that no matter what happened, whether I woke up or not, he suffered that kind of suffering for me. And that was the moment at which I knew the Savior. I knew him. The hymn is saying that very thing. That it's at that moment when the Savior has descended below it all so that he could be with me during my darkest moment where I had no hope, I know that he's the Christ. I know that Jesus is the Christ. I know Jesus is the Christ. Is this him powerful? Yeah, because his atonement is powerful and it's really real.

He really did those things so that he could help me and you and everybody else. I know that in a way that I didn't know before. Thank you for sharing that. I thought of the Savior's experience in the garden and on the cross as places where a large mass of sin was heaped upon him. Through the words of prophets, however, my view has changed. Instead of an impersonal mass of sin, there was a long line of people. He goes on to say, The atonement was an intimate, personal experience in which Jesus came to know how to help each of us. He learned about your weaknesses. He experienced your pains and sufferings. I testify that he knows us. But more than that, more than just knowing us, he knows how to help us

if we come to him in faith. Amen. One of the places that Elder Bateman talked about was going to Abinadi in Isaiah, where Isaiah, when his soul will be made an offering for sin, he shall see his seed. And maybe, as Elder Bateman said, that was not just a mass of all sin, but an individual thing. That would be the travail of his soul when we would become children of Christ. He would see his seed. It's a powerful, beautiful thought. Thanks for sharing that. I love the idea that it's so personal. That was a cool quote. And he knows them so that he can help them. He would see his seed and there would be joy. Yeah. On that, I think the power of this poem, if we can go back to it, of how it affects us naturally is that we return back to what that means for Christ. And that's that hinge verse there on nine.

Therefore, that's it. This is like, boom, the hinge. Therefore, God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name. And that is the name of Jesus. And every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. It isn't that the suffering and the trial is just a nothing. It's that becomes something that exalts us. It changes us. It changed him. The suffering that you're going through, remember what the letter is about,

when you're suffering and you're going through trials, it's the same thing that Christ went through and it will make you like him. It's something that the Lord can use. So instead of being born into something really great and being the king, it's the opposite. It's being the servant and then is what brings us up. So that suffering that you're going through is kind of good news because it teaches us to be like him and the Lord can use it for a benefit. I think of Joseph and his brothers in Genesis, where they thought that they were going to cast him out and kill him. And then they sell him as a slave. And then he goes to Egypt. And then even there he's thrown in jail. And then the person in jail even forgets him. I mean, his story just goes from bad to worse to bad to worse. This guy

doesn't really deserve any of it. And then finally someone remembers him. Oh, I remember that he was in jail. And then he has raced up and he becomes like the vice regent. Like he's the super in charge guy of all of Egypt. Who knew? Jesus knew. He sends the family down there and it says in chapter 50 to his brothers, you guys meant it for evil, but God put it to good. You tried to do all this to me, but it was for good. And that's what the

Savior can do for all of our suffering. He can say something that was so troublesome. He can put it to our good. It's not saying that suffering is good, but even the suffering, even those things that are trying can become something good. I've always thought about that story, Laurie. I thought in the past, well, why doesn't the Lord just put Joseph in Egypt instead of making him go through all of those difficult things? But I've wondered when his brothers show up, had he just been placed in Egypt and not struggled, would he be the person that he was, the forgiver that he was, had he not suffered so much. So not only does the Lord put us in the right place, but he can also use our difficulties and trials to make us the right person in the right place.

I think that's exactly right, that the Lord gives us those struggles to make us the best that we can be if we do it consecrated to the Lord, not just struggle. It makes Joseph the best Joseph if we do it in Christ. If you dedicate it to him, if you consecrate it to him, it teaches us something. We become better. At least it feels a little bit cold comfort. Like, well, I was hoping to just avoid those trials. But instead, what he's teaching is those trials are important for us and they make us more like him. And the whole purpose of our existence

is not to avoid the struggles, but to have him with us, on our side, with us, understanding us intimately and uniquely when we go through them. It makes Joseph a stronger type of Christ too, because of that time. And back in Philippians 119, I know this, Paul's imprisonment, everything shall turn to my salvation. That idea of all things work together for good for them that love God kind of shows up in different stories and in different phrases all over the place, doesn't it? That God can take those times. He doesn't cause all of them. Sometimes we cause them, but he can take those and make it for our good.

Yeah, that's really powerful. Thank you, John. I like that. It's that thread, like that theme is just kind of threading through all of these verses, right? All these chapters, all these different books. So many stories throughout. Yeah. Let's look at the rest of Philippians. We're just going to mention a few of the key things that we won't be able to dig into, but that you should come back to.

Philippians 3, 13 and 14. It says, Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended, which I think means I have not reached my goal yet. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended, but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, which I think he means things he's been through, and reaching forth unto those things which are before. Before meaning in the future, before me coming up, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Paul being almost a motivational speaker right there. I'm going to finish this race. I have a goal and I'm going to reach it. I know who I am.

I know what I want and I'm going to get it. I know who I am. I know what I want and I'm going to get it. I like the high calling. It's a high calling. This isn't just a putzy little race. This is the race and I am pressing for it. I'm going to endure to the end and I'm going to make it and I'm going to bust through the tape at the end. All right, John, your turn. Well, the kid in primary that said, what kind of gun did Paul have? And his teacher said, I don't think Paul had a gun. And yes, he did. It says we believe in the ammunition of Paul when they were working on the Articles of Faith. And sometimes we don't even know what was the ammunition of Paul. Well, that's Philippians 4.8.

Exactly the wrong way to look at, for example, the new FSY guide is, what will God permit? Instead, a better way is, what would God prefer? As someone said on our podcast recently. And look at what this is saying to look at. Whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report. If there be any virtue, if there be any praise, think on these things. And our article of faith says we seek after these things. Instead of just the don'ts, this kind of has the do. What should I focus on? What should I look for in life? The things that are honest, pure, just, lovely, of good report, praiseworthy.

I like that too. That reminds me of Martha and Mary, where she has chosen the better part. You just get to pick anything that you know that the Lord wants you to follow. It doesn't have to tell you everything. It's a good thing. Let's look at the end of Philippians chapter three. Paul is talking about those who are enemies to the cross of Christ. And he said, will do whatever you want me to do. Almost a John chapter six moment. I come to Christ because I want to be physically fed. I want to be satisfied physically. And Paul is saying that's not what it's about. Whose God is their belly. Put that in vinyl in the kitchen. Yeah. One of the things I always appreciate is how much Paul calls out his friends. He's always like, hey, I love you guys. And he remembers them so fondly.

And he always remembers to call them out. So we have some of the best names that we only get in these letters where we don't know these people, but we know that they're out there being the people that they are and growing the kingdom of God, growing Zion. And that's just like all of us. We're all just kind of little people. He would have written to each of you. Thanks, Paul.

Laurie, what you just said reminds me of a moment in the Beware of Pride talk, that famous talk from 1989, President Benson, Beware of Pride. He's talking about all these things that are prideful, fault-finding, gossiping, backbiting, murmuring, living beyond our means, envying, coveting. And then he said something that just caught my attention. Pride, withholding gratitude and praise that might lift another. Withholding gratitude and praise that might lift another. Paul takes these opportunities to praise people, to lift them. When I read through this talk, I thought, how often do I

withhold compliments or praise that might really be a benefit to someone else? I just don't say it. I think of it, but I don't say it. That beware of pride talk. I like to think how many times have you thought something kind about somebody, but it doesn't get that extra couple of inches and come out of your mouth. What's that old poem? I've wept in the night for the shortness of sight. When to someone's need, I was blind, but I've never as yet felt a tinge of regret for being a little too kind. You think that nice thing about somebody,

just let it come out. And here's Paul in prison, thanking them for taking care of him. I think those are powerful things that we can do. And that's always a reminder to me that the gospel of Jesus Christ is this doing, that we can share this out and be this light. It's not that God's light just shares into us, but we reflect it out. So we're like a mirror outwards. Just sharing those kind words, even helping somebody suffering, mourning with those who mourn, that's powerful. And it's something that I can do. I've always loved this little thought in Philippians 4.11. It's a little thought, but it's so huge. How hard to do.

I have learned, Paul says, from prison, in whatsoever state I am therewith to be content. I think there are entire floors in skyscrapers on Madison Avenue trying to persuade us that we should be discontent, that there is some product or service that we don't have and that we need it so bad that we should not be content. And I remember reading a book years ago called Fine Old High Priest. I can only remember one line in that book, and it was this young adult talking to his grandma who said to him, giving him advice, marry someone who knows how to be content. I don't know why I remember that line, but being content is very hard to do. And here's Paul saying, I've learned to be content and having it come from that place, that verse just speaks to me and tells me I'm not

there yet. No, John, that's funny that you say that those floors of Madison Avenue, because I remember taking a marketing class and they said, a billboard is meant to create a problem. You didn't know you had and solve it. You're like, I didn't even know I had that problem until I looked at your billboard. But I'm so glad I can pay money to get it resolved. Right? Yeah. That's that other old saying that they want to persuade you

to spend money you don't have to buy stuff you don't need to impress people you don't like. Whatsoever state I am in, therewith to be content. That's great, John. Please join us for part two of this podcast.