followHIM - Thoughts to Keep in Mind #6 • Jesus Will Say to All Israel, "Come Home" • Dr. Ross Baron • July 13-19

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

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Welcome everyone to another episode of Follow Him. We're so glad you're here. This is one of our continuing series, thoughts to keep in mind. That means we have Ross Baron with us, also known as the Baron of Ross. That's like Chiasmus. Ross Baron, the Baron of Ross. I'm here with Hank Smith, of course, and Ross Baron, who is going to be our expert on our thoughts to keep in our mind today. and this is the topic Jesus will say to all Israel come home. When I say that, you're all thinking of the hymn, I'm sure. And Jesus will say to all Israel come home. Today is scattering and gathering.

Hank loves this topic. His talk at Ensign College was about this topic. A very big picture. Hank, what are you looking forward to talking about today? Israel, Israel God is calling. It was written by my great, great grandfather. What? I think it is just in my blood.

Yeah. Is that true? No kidding. I remember when Elder Christopherson gave his talk about that song and about this same message. It sings to me. Yeah, literally. Well, what is the name of your great-great-grandfather? Richard Smythe is his name.

Someone along the way said, no, let's be Smith. I don't know. Let's not be Smyth, let's be Smith. This could have been, yeah, John Bith the Way and Hank Smyth. John, you're right on. For me, this is what the gospel is all about. I have found that young people, if they'll understand their work, they will more clearly understand their worth. This is the work that we are engaged in. It's much bigger than, let's say, restoration of a New Testament church, which it definitely is, that's definitely part of what we're doing, but it's much bigger. It goes much further back than that. I'm excited for Ross to show us. Oh, yeah, that's great. What do the young men in the Aronic Priested Corm theme say every week? I'm a beloved son of God and he has a work for me to do.

And what is that work? President Nelson from the beginning talking about greatest work, greatest thing you could ever do, gather Israel. So, Ross, we're so glad to have you here. Are you excited to talk about this too? Oh, this is going to be great. I'm really excited and grateful for these thoughts to keep in mind that kind of add a little condiment to our Come Follow Me curriculum.

Yeah, exactly. Here's the opening paragraph in our manual, which are so beautifully written. I always love these opening paragraphs. They're so beautifully done and give us big picture. Here it goes. In the desert of Sinai, Moses gathered the children of Israel at the foot of a mountain. There the Lord declared that he wanted to turn this group of recently liberated slaves into a mighty people. Ye shall be unto me, he said, a kingdom of priests and an holy nation.

He promised that they would flourish and prosper, even when surrounded by larger, more powerful enemies. All this would happen not because the Israelites were more numerous or strong or skillful. It would happen, the Lord explained, if they would obey his voice indeed and keep his covenant. God's power, not their own, would make them mighty. Yet the Israelites didn't always obey God's voice, and over time they stopped keeping. keeping his covenant. Many worshipped other gods and adopted the practices of the cultures around them. They rejected the very thing that made them a distinct nation, their covenant relationship with the

Lord. Without God's power protecting them, there was nothing to stop their enemies. There's only two headings after this, and it's only a couple of pages, but the one heading is the scattering, the next one is the gathering. Ross, this is what I wanted to ask you. I feel like I didn't fully get this. It seems to me today, and now I want you to correct me, guys. The Bible, at first it was Adam and Eve. It was the whole population of the planet, Adam and Eve in their posterity. And then we've got Noah's Ark.

And then it gets down to, as Hake has explained, Shem Ham and Japeth, the sons off of the Ark. Then those that come from Shem, sometimes called the Semites. Here comes Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. And God makes a covenant with Abraham. Abraham has a son named Isaac, who has a son named Jacob. Then it seems like the Bible becomes more this journal of the house of Israel. Then the scatterings spread the blood of Israel all over the world.

I like to think of it as a fortunate scattering. When we're being gathered, it's not that we're lost under the polar ice cap or something, is that we just don't know who we are. Our patriarchal blessing is to remind us, this is who you are. You are part of Israel and part of this country. covenant. Now today I see that more clearly, and I think I'm getting that right. Am I getting that right, Ross? Oh, I think you're 100% accurate the way you laid it out. I would simply say that the House of Israel, like you laid it out, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has a purpose. In previous episodes,

I've talked about the blessings associated with the Abraham and covenant and the corresponding obligations associated with the Abraham and covenant, and that if you don't keep the corresponding obligations, you're going to lose the blessings. One of those is a land blessing, meaning they can have particular places that they can worship God, and if they're not keeping their corresponding obligations, they're going to be scattered.

As we've talked about before, and Hank, I know you love to talk about this. There's priesthood to bear the ministry. There's a posterity, a blessing of children. Then there's this idea of land. And that's why scattering what? You mean scattering in land? because in the early days of the church, in the early days of the restoration,

everybody was gathering to one place, but now it's more of a gathering to stakes of Zion wherever you are. Yeah, the land idea is, if you think about it, really, President Christofferson has alluded to this and talked about it, but the idea is that we're going to have places where we'll have enough permanence because of the blessings of God to be able to establish, the covenant will be able to have temples and be able to worship and do it in such a way that it can be a blessing to those people there. You talked about how early on people had to gather to Kirtland or they

had to gather to Navu or we're going to gather to Missouri or we're going to gather to Utah. That was because that's where the temple was. But now if you live in Norway, you can gather to Oslo or Oslo. Or if you live in Japan, you can go to Kobe or Tokyo. If you live in Argentina, you can go Buenos Aires or Cordoba. You have temples all over where, think about it, God has prospered the saints in these particular areas and established them in such a powerful way that they now can worship God, fulfill all of the terms and conditions of the Abrahamic covenant in that area without having to travel to Utah or Missouri or Ohio or somewhere like that. part of our obligation is to bless all the families of the world.

That's like one of my favorite parts of the Abraham at Cohn. Then when you think, well, how do you do that? You get them to temples. That's the greatest thing we can offer is to bind families together in temples. When I was on my mission in the Philippines, there were zero temples there. Mandela was announced and under construction. How could I bless those folks there? We could talk about the temple.

but now I think Hank were at 11. Things really picked up after I left. I think it was because of you. No, no, not at all. But a place called Erdinetta now, a place where I met as sister on P-Day. We were buying tennis balls because we happened to have a tennis court

in this little place we were serving and thought we could play tennis on P-Day. And this little woman walked up to us and said, who are you guys? And we introduced ourselves, and taught her, her name was Lordes. And Lordes Tabelin joined the church, served a mission herself and her brothers.

Now she's got a temple in Erdinata. It's the coolest thing so that her family can be blessed with that. John, what you hit there, Genesis Chapter 12. It seems to me that Genesis 1 through 11 are basically an introduction to Genesis 12. They're the scrolling words before the actual story begins. And then it opens Genesis chapter 12, verse 1, Abraham, I'm going to make you and your family great. You will be a blessing in thee and in your posterity.

Shall all the families of the earth be blessed? It seems to me that's the opener. Genesis chapter 12, verse one. That's the real opening of the story. And that everything that came before was to get us to meet Abraham. Yep. Everything then from Abraham will really be to get us to meet Joseph, who was sold in Egypt. It's a single family.

And they struggle. Oh, they strut on it. The book of Genesis, according to Alder McConkey, is about family, family, family. Well, Ross, take off. Let's go. Teach us about scattering and gathering. We've talked about the Abraham of Covenant. We've talked a little bit about the scattering and gathering.

But I want to talk about the title of this lesson, which is Jesus will say to all Israel, come home. I want to first talk about Jesus. It's Jesus that's going to do it. It's Jesus that will say. It's his timing. It's his calendar. It's going to be according to his will. I wanted to pause a minute.

We're going to zoom in and we're going to zoom out. But this would be an opportunity to zoom out for a second. Think about the majesty of the kingdom of God on the earth today. We're talking about the stone that was cut out of the mountain without hands that's rolling forth to fill the whole earth. Let's look at a couple of areas of what Jesus, is doing and how Jesus is coordinating all the work of salvation and exaltation on earth and on the other side of the veil. Let's talk about the church education system for a second. You've got BYU-Provow, BYU, BYU, H.Y.U. Iowa, H.I.N.Sign College, seminaries and institutes, and you've got BYU

pathway worldwide. The enrollment for those is 1.1 million. That's the enrollment. in the church educational system. Think about the Savior coordinating sleepy-eyed teenagers in the morning to people in your class, John, and your class, Hank, and people all over the world and pathway worldwide whose lives are being changed dramatically because of the church education system. The Lord is coordinating that in detailed ways across the earth. Anybody who's listening who maybe doesn't understand that the Savior is working in more places in Africa, Mongolia has pathway worldwide. By the way, Salt Lake City has BYU pathway worldwide.

I remember talking to Kim B. Clark, who is former Commissioner of Church Education General Authority 70, he said the goal of pathway worldwide is eventually to itself have one million students. right now we have 1.1 million students in church education. I think that's astounding. That's Jesus coordinating the work of salvation and exaltation to invite people to come home. Number two, think about missionary work right now. There are, according to the latest statistics, about 115,000 missionaries. Now, when I say that, there's about close to 80,000 full-time missionaries, and then there are senior missionaries and their service missionaries. That total is at about 115,000. Think about that.

Think about all of the things that are going on with coordinating MTC time, flights, apartments, all the things that go on to make, Hank, you have your son serving right now. There's a bunch of things going on behind the scenes. So all he does is get up every morning, go out, teach, preach, expound. invite all to come into Christ, but there's a ton of stuff and resources, logistics that are happening, and Jesus Christ is coordinating the work of the mission. I was talking recently to the managing director of the missionary training center. I mean, it opened my eyes. He just said, I wish I could give everyone a glimpse of what goes into making sure that 115,000 full-time missionaries are doing the work, are safe, and are worldwide getting to where they need to be.

The Savior is courting that. Jesus will say to all look, Israel come home. Okay, now let's think about temple work. 385 temples announced in operation or under construction. Three hundred and eighty-five. Think about each one has a temple president. It's like running a little city, by the way, if you've ever thought about what would be like to run a temple? I think the Orham Temple has 1,500 volunteers. That's to coordinate all the different sessions. It's astounding. Jesus is coordinating, organizing, overseeing, inspiring the work of salvation and exaltation

that's occurring in the temples. You and I all know, by the way, number one, we're going to have more students in church education. Number two, we're going to have more missionaries. The estimate is next year will have 100,000 full-time proselyting missionaries. We've never had that many. 100,000 full-time proselyting missionaries. You and I know there's going to be more temples announced. The other area I wanted to zoom out on is humanitarian. The church puts out now the report to the world about what humanitarian efforts were doing last

year, almost $1.6 billion in humanitarian aid in 194 countries all through the world. Jesus Christ organizing, overseeing this incredible work of taking care of those in need, of uniting families for eternity, of inviting all to come into Christ so that we can live the gospel and be called home. I wanted to zoom out on that for a moment. Think about, again, the light, the majesty, the power of God, our eternal father, and his son, Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Ghost, working a marvelous work in our world. a wonder in the earth in his kingdom. Ross, I'm very impressed. The more I study this with the Lord's patience and the very measured growth. We are very impatient people. We want things to happen fast and

big. If you go to Jacob 5, which John, I don't know if you know this, but I'm a big fan of this chapter. The allegory. This is all about what we're talking, what we're doing today. It's one chapter that encapsulates everything we're talking about. The whole thing. There's a verse that we often miss, because it's a long chapter. But the Lord's talking about the growth of the tree. He said, be careful to clear away the branches which bring forth bitter fruit according to the strength of the good and the size thereof. You shall not clear away the bad thereof all at once, lest the roots thereof should be too strong for the graft, and the graft thereof shall perish, and I shall lose the trees of my vineyard. It seems to me that we're watching a very patient Lord with measured growth.

I remember President Hinckley saying once, our biggest problem is rapid growth. Yeah, I can't keep up and it could go bad if it gets out of control. I really appreciate that. And then one thing that John frequently says that I think his mission president told him was, the Lord gets his work done through his people and his people done through his work. It's not just about the, hey, let's get Israel gathered. It's about, well, who are we? when we're gathered, as we're gathering, are we changing? Are we becoming? It's interesting you brought that up because years ago I was teaching the parable, the wheat and the tears. I had this view and I was talking in my class. It was an institute class. I was saying what you said, Hank, I'm impatient

because the angels want to reap. Lord, let them reap. Like, let's reap the tears. Let's go. I had a very interesting moment in the class. What happened in class was the spirit. the spirit said to me, you'd be reaped. Then I stopped and I said, no reaping. And the whole class is like, wait, you just said reap. And I was like, no, don't reap. Let the Lord be patient. I was taught something, though. I was taught something profound. And that is, I'd always looked at the wheat and the tears as a binary. You're either a wheat or a tear. And I think what the Lord was teaching me was that there was too much tear in me still so that I could become wheat. That he needed more time with me.

That was a profound lesson. It was very private, by the way. It was happening in public, but it was happening with a spirit communication to me as I went from Lord Reap to Lord, let's wait and not reap. Please. Please. As I was thinking about the phrase,

Jesus will say to all Israel come home, I want to glorify Jesus as he is in charge of this holy work. doing incredible things. That prophecy of Daniel in chapter 2, that it's going to roll forth and fill the whole earth. We're not there yet, but I wanted to give us a glimpse that we're on the way. Elder Quentin L. Cook came to BYU,

and he talked about how when the church was organized, it was the agricultural age. Then we went into the industrial age. That furthered the work of God. Then we went into the information age. age, that furthered the work of God. Now we're in the AI age. Some people listening are worried or concerned. An Elder Cook, an apostle of Jesus Christ was like, nope, it just like those other ages furthered the work of God, God will further this work via that particular technology

as well. And I thought, that is so inspiring and so hopeful. Jesus will say to all Israel come home. It's Jesus who's in charge. Jesus is going to do it. It's going to be his calendar when it gets done. I find that super hopeful, very powerful. And I love what you said, Hank, about Jacob 5. It is measured, but like President Hinckley said, the God is hastening his work. There is an acceleration going on and a momentum that's happening that I have never seen in my lifetime. I think it's super exciting and I'm grateful to be part of it. I don't know your experience. I'd love to hear your take on this, John and Hank. I've been teaching in church education for a really long time. The students I teach now, this is nothing against my former students. I love them. But these students are more prepared,

more scripturally literate, more aware of what their responsibilities are, more insightful in class, and more prepared. Now, if you guys disagree, that's fine, but that's my experience over decades teaching in church education. That is absolutely my experience. I think the inspired lowering of the mission age is evidence of that. They're ready faster. I was telling Hank about a picture my daughter brought home who just got her mission call of all these kids. And I thought, oh, that's the senior class. That's a graduating class. No, those are the ones in the graduating class who have accepted mission calls. It was huge. And oh, those are all over, she says, on the internet. Another thing I was thinking about was President Nelson, when he added on both sides of the veil that the gathering, that was huge

for me. Oh yeah, of course. Now, when I say to my kids, I'm going to the temple, how do you do that they grab my phone and get me a name of a relative that fast. All those ways I think of hastening the word. But yeah, back to your point, I absolutely think that's true. I've noticed that with my students, I suppose, because I have great emphasis on the scriptures that has happened over the decades, but also it's who they are. They're coming different. It's who they are. But I will say this about Ezra-Taf Benson in the 1980s, turning us to the Book of Mormon, shift. something eternally to me. And those great parents who followed President Benson and created a generation and now we're looking at the grandkids, some of those grandkids, because they know

their Book of Mormon and they've received a witness that it's true. Which Jesus says in Third Nephi, this is the tool of the gathering. That's how you'll know. If you're reading these words, he says, you can know. It's actually already started. What words? Oh, these words that I'm reading right now. Part of me is like, hey, there are more Latter-day Saints in the spirit world than ever before. So the roots are growing too. That's what I see is our ancestors. Our roots are growing too. I don't know if you guys are aware, but the Family History app and the Family History Department, we add hundreds of millions of names every year. There's 22 billion names. I think that's the latest statistic. More people not of our faith are on.

on family history apps than of our faith. This is the Lord Jesus Christ doing his work worldwide. Part of today I wanted to just get excited about Jesus will say to all Israel come home. Jesus is involved. Jacob 5. Jesus is ministering with us. We're in that one segment of Jacob 5 where the Lord himself is working with his servants to gather. There's only one section in Jacob 5 where the Lord comes down.

and this is that time. It is exciting because amazing things are going on and will continue to go on. Grateful to be part of it. Is it Malachi who calls Jesus the messenger of the covenant? Yeah. That's why I like that. And Jesus will say, he's the messenger of the covenant. Jesus will say, come home.

Yep. Jesus will say to all Israel come home, can we go to Revelation chapter 5? because I want to go from premortality. Let's go way back because I want to emphasize, I know I'm really hammering this point, really in the end we're here to preach Christ and him crucified. I absolutely love this. I'm in Revelation chapter 5.

I'm starting to read in verse 1. This is John the Beloved. And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne, a book written within and on the backside seal with seven seals. I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice. here's the question. Who is worthy to open the book and to loose the seals thereof?

Now the question is what's the book? Section 77 tells us it's the economy and the mysteries of God. It's actually the will of God. It is his plan. He's saying, who can open the book or another way? Who can carry out the will of God?

John Hank, the three of us might have raised our hand and said, hey, we'll go down. Everyone would have looked at us and said, put your dang hands down. Yeah, yeah. Don't do that. because what we need to understand about Jesus,

Jesus was not only willing, but he was able. Verse three, no man in heaven nor in earth, neither under the earth was able to open the book, or in other words, was able to fully carry out the will of God. No one, by the way, that would have included Lucifer. Think that you and I would have seen that no one could do it, no one. Verse four, John the Beloved, and I wept much because no man, man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. John the beloved is like

weeping, oh, no one can do it. The angel, weep not, verse five. Behold the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof. Look at that. And by the way, notice the word prevail there. Let God prevail, that Jesus is the embodiment of what Israel means, that he will prevail. He will open the book. He will carry out that. After he opens the seals of the book, oh my word, everyone starts to praise God. Verse nine, and they sung a new song saying, thou art worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof, for thou was slain and has redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred tongue, people, and nation, has made us unto us our God. and priests, and we shall reign on earth. Then verse 12, everyone sings with a loud voice. Worthy is the lamb that was slain to receive power, riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory,

and blessing. Verse 13. Every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them heard, I sang, Blessing and honor and glory and power be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the lamb forever and ever. It was a party because we knew that Jesus could carry out the will of God. He's doing it today. His work isn't done. He is saying to all of Israel come home. It's going to be according to his calendar in a measured way, like he said, Hank earlier, but he is powerfully working in the earth today to gather scattered Israel. Ross, when we say gather scattered Israel, why was Israel scattered? Because I might ask a young adult, hey, what are we doing? We're gathering Israel. They've listened to President Nelson. And then I might say,

okay, when was Israel scattered? And they'll, they might, well, at, you know, at some point, there was a scattering. So can you give us a brief, hey, when was Israel even scattered? What are we gathering? John brought up, Jacob has 12 sons. Those 12 sons are the tribes of Israel, the house of Israel. God is sending particular spirits through the house of Israel to do what, to wear out their lives, to bless all of humanity. That's what you said earlier, Hank, when you were talking about Genesis chapter 12, in thee and thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because we're going to serve others. We're going to go do that work. They have Israel, God's plan, is there going to be a kingdom of priests and priestesses and kings and queens

to what end to bless all of the nations of the earth. Well, they don't live up to that, to put it mildly. Then we go into different periods of ebbing and flowing, of different laws that God is giving them and blessing them and blessing the earth, but it's not fully happening. We know that under the reigns of King Saul, then King David, who essentially unites the tribes of Israel and the Holy Land, and then there's a division.

We talked a little bit about this when we talked about the historical books, that there's the northern tribes, which is about 10 of the tribes of Israel, and then there's the southern tribes, which is usually called Judah. And in about 721, as prophesied by the prophets, specifically Isaiah, but Moses as well, Deuteronomy chapter 4 and Deuteronomy chapter 28, the blessings and the curses, because of wickedness, they were scattered. 721 BC, 10 of the tribes are scattered throughout the world and essentially lost, and I use that phrase carefully, lost in the sense that they lost their full identity as children of the covenant. 120 plus years later, you've got Lehi at the time of Jeremiah, by the way. Jeremiah's prophecy is you submit to Babylon. If you don't submit to Babylon, you'll be killed. Because Babylon's going to be my instrument in carrying forth my work, but you're going to be scattered because you've been so wicked. Lehi is living at the time of Jeremiah, and that's around 600 BC they leave.

Then Judah has stayed kind of as a nation, but by 586, 587, they're scattered as well. And they're scattered into Babylon and probably other places. Then under Cyrus, they start coming back in the middle of the six months. century after about 70 years of being scattered, then a group of Jews come back from Babylon. This is called the post-exilic period. These Jews are allowed by various kings in Persia to reestablish themselves to build the walls of Jerusalem, to even rebuild the temple. That happens again in the sixth century, about the mid-sixth century, 535, up to there, at 515. that is then Judah.

Now, there's a series of different kingdoms like we talked about in historical books, the Greeks under Alexander the Great, then you've got Hasmonians, and then you've got Rome. Then Jesus comes during the Roman period. Then after Jesus is crucified, about 70 AD under Titus,

Rome then does another cleansing. Then there's another revolt about 70 years later, 80 years later. essentially the Jews are scattered worldwide. Now, the Jews have miraculously, to a certain degree, kept their identity as Jews, but pretty much all the other tribes have been lost. Again, and I use the word lost, not that God doesn't know where they are, but that they've lost their identity. So in the latter days, God, through Joseph Smith, sends Moses for the gathering of Israel, Elias for the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, and then Elijah,

to be able to have the sealing keys so the West sealed on earth can be sealed in heaven. And the whole work of salvation and exaltation is to find scattered Israel to bring them back and then to bless every Gentile on earth as well with the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. To be able to come back and by covenant unite themselves with Christ. Absolutely. And the Book of Mormon people are part of that scattering. What's interesting, though, is they weren't wicked. I don't know if the Lord says, I'm not going to scatter you. I'm going to place you over here. In fact, he says, I'm going to do that. Jacob 5, I'm going to take that branch and I'm going to put it over here.

I'm going to bring you to a choice land, choice above all other lands for the blessing of the peoples there and for their own blessing. That was exactly the question I was going to ask. Because Lehi and his family and Ishmael, that whole group, did they get scattered? did they just get? I'm going to put you over here for safekeeping. I think somebody, Hank, in the past, talked to us about, imagine the interview for Jeremiah and the interview for Lehi. Jeremiah, you're going to go to prison. You're going to have a really hard time. That's here calling Lehihi. I'm taking you to a choice land. Ezekiel, you're going with him. Jeremiah, you're going to turn the lights out in Jerusalem. That's what you're going to do. Ross, it seems in the book of Mormon,

And they even forget who they are because when Jesus comes, he says, hey, by the way, you're the House of Israel. And I think they're going, no, I think you got the wrong. We're Nephites. No, you're my people. We talked about that when we did the Book of Mormon and I came on and we talked about their Nephite 20 and 21, where he's very clear, you are my people. You're the House of Israel. This is very, very important. When we're talking about Lost, it's not geographic. It's more in our hearts and in our minds. I didn't know who I was. I'll say to students, jokingly, I'll go, you all look like a bunch of Ephraimites. Are you guys Ephraimites?

And they'll be like, yeah, we're Ephraimites or somebody will be like, I'm from Manassah. I was like, okay, how do you know that? John, to your point. Like, how do you know your Ephraim? I got a patriarchal blessing? Awesome. You get a patriarchal blessing because you get baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. And now because you're a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you have a patriarch who is ordained to be able to declare lineage. So you are lost, but now you're found. Now you're in the kingdom. That's exactly right. A term that sometimes I hear that my students weren't acquainted with, diaspora. Can you explain that term? Yeah, that term is essentially the scattering. It's usually used more with reference to Jews. In terms of a Latter-day Saint context, it's totally appropriate. But if it's in an academic setting or maybe a more secular setting, it's usually the

scattering of Jews. For example, one side of my family were in Spain. They were in Spain when Ferdinand and Isabella came along. Then there was the Inquisition. My Jewish ancestors were scattered, the diaspora, the diaspora. They left Spain, so they were Sephardic Jews. Then they left, and they went to Amsterdam. They went to Lithuania. Then from Lithuania and Amsterdam, after hundreds and hundreds of years, they went to England, Canada, and the United States. That's what's referenced there. But I think the diaspora in terms of what we're talking about is the scattering of all of Israel. But again, we should be careful if we're using that term with people that aren't Latter-day Saints, they might think that specifically references Jews, but it references all.

September 21st, 1823, when Marona appears to Joseph Smith, he says, we're going to fulfill Isaiah 11, which is the gathering of Israel. I love that. He doesn't say we're going to restore Jesus' church, does he? He says we are going to gather Israel. I love your point based on your comment, Isaiah 11. So Moroni, 1823, Isaiah 11 is about to be fulfilled. That's what he says, right?

It's about to be fulfilled. If you're in Isaiah 11, I'm actually in Second Eiffi 21. I prefer the brass plate version of Isaiah 11. 2. Ephi 21, verse 11, and it shall come to pass in that day that the Lord shall set his hand the second time to recover the remnant of his people from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Kush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea everywhere. Then he says this, look at the order. This is now verse 12, and he shall set up an end sign for the nation. So there's going to be this signal, this sign, this token to which people can look.

He's going to set up this banner for the nations. Notice this. The end sign will be for the nations, the goyim, and assemble the outcasts of Israel and gather together the dispersed of Judah. Do you see the order? Who do we go to first? Gentiles. Christ first came to Jews and then went to Gentiles. In the latter days, he goes to Gentiles, then he goes to Jews, so that the first will be last and the last will be first. Isaiah lays out the order. He's going to go to the nations, the Goim. He's going to assemble the outcasts of Israel, northern tribes, specifically Ephraim. Then eventually he'll gather together the dispersed of Judah.

From where? From the four corners of the earth. And then, verse 13, the envy of Ephraim also shall depart. And the adversaries of Judas shall be cut off. Ephraim shall not envy Judah and Judah shall not vex Ephraim. In the past, once the tribes divided, the northern kingdom was against the southern kingdom. The southern kingdom was against the northern kingdom. But in the latter days, no, no, no, Ephraim and Judah cooperate.

They coalesce. I mean, this podcast with my two Ephraimite friends, Hank and John, you guys are not vexing me. Hank vexes me occasionally, but John never vexes me. And my wife is an Ephraimite, so I'm fulfilling this prophecy. You're welcome. It's so fascinating that Isaiah translated into English, it gives us the order. Hank, I appreciate you bringing that up. That's beautiful. Isaiah chapter 11, we're going to fulfill that, and that is Jesus saying to all Israel, come home. I like to say you get scattered. First, you lose your testimony, then you lose your real estate. That sounds like the order Nephi is talking about.

You get scatterbrained and then you lose your real estate. And then you gather to Christ in your heart and mind. And then you gather to lands or to stakes of Zion. Amen. Well said. I've noticed 1823, we're going to fulfill Isaiah 11. The first 20 sections of doctrine covenants, many of them start with. A work is about to come forth among the children of men.

Then we get to section 20. We never hear that again. We never hear a work is about to come forth. among the children of men. So it seems that the Lord says, can we got to get the book warming in place? That's right. And it's what, 10 days after it's published? I think the end sign. Okay, so, I'm going to say this. Is the end sign the church? It's the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterty Saints is the vehicle through which we can do that. On 3rd Nepi 28, it says they were all converted under the Lord and united to the church.

So I love that phrase. They were all converted to the Lord and united. united to the church. I'm converted to Jesus Christ and I am united to his church on earth, which is his vehicle through which the ordinances and covenants can be dispensed given to all humankind on both sides of the veil. Ross, I love that so much. It was beautiful. I used to tell people that my dad was a convert to the church and the more I studied the book Mormon, the more I noticed it never uses that language. It is very consistent. They were converted unto the Lord.

I'd like to show my class about 10 references in a row, and then I show them that last one. Okay, where's the church fit in? They were converted into the Lord and united with the Church of Christ in 3rd Nephi 28, like you said. But I love that the object of our conversion is to Christ, not to an organization. Although I am loyal and committed to the Church of Jesus Christ

of Latter-day Saints, And I am loyal and committed to his prophets who have the priesthood authority and the keys to, again, allow me to have the gift of the Holy Ghost and all of the blessings. Without that, we wouldn't be able to do it. It is the kingdom of God on earth. It's the kingdom of God on earth. In fact, Elder Christopherson gave a talk called Why the Church. He emphasized that verse, their Nephi 28, about converted unto the Lord united with the Church of Christ.

and they're a bunch of imperfect folks get together, but the power of God is there and the ordinances are there, and the priest is there, and the Holy Ghost is there, and now we can go bless the families of the earth with all of that. I love that. Ross, I loved how you said the church is actually the vehicle. It's not the point. Section 84, verse 2,

The Lord concerning his church established in the last days for the restoration of his people. When we talk restoration of the church, yes, for what purpose? For the restoration of his people? Elder L. Tom Perry gave a talk at BYU, Idaho, where he talked about the church is scaffolding. Now, think about that. I've used scaffolding before to do things at my home. When you're done doing the thing at your home, what do you do with the scaffolding? You get rid of it. It served its purpose. I think it's really interesting that in Ephesians 4, when Paul says, I like to ask the question, so how long are we going to need apostles till we all come in the unity of the faith? and have the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man under the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

I need apostles and prophets till we all come in the inner faith. Do we still need them? Yep. We have not got there yet. But at a certain point, that's going to probably be in the next life. We are united to Jesus Christ, and Jesus' prayer in John 17 is that we will be one with the Father and one with the Son and one with the 12th.

Then we'll be fine. It'll be all good. I mean, I don't want anybody to misunderstand. Again, I love the kingdom of God on the earth. I love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I love the first presidency in the quorum of the 12. They are a vehicle to help us to fully come unto Christ. Remember the centurion whose servant is healed?

One of the things that Gentile Roman soldier gets is authority. He gets authority because Jesus says, I'll come and heal him. he says oh no no no no no i'm a man who has authority i say do this and they do it you just need to say the word i know who you are he'll be healed and then jesus is like i have not seen this kind of faith no not in all israel what does he get what he gets is authority one of the things we have in the kingdom of god is authority you've got to understand what authority is Ross, one of the pictures in the manual for our thoughts to keep in mind is one of my favorite paintings. The first time I saw it, it was in Kirtland, where people with authority and keys appeared in the Kirtland Temple and restored keys of what?

One of them was Moses restoring gathering of Israel. That's exactly what we're talking about. Another area in terms of this phrase, Jesus will say to all Israel come home, is agency. He's inviting people to come home. There's not going to be compulsion or dominion or force. I thought a lot in the last little bit about the phrase, Jesus will say to all Israel, come home. He's inviting you to come home. And if you don't want to do that, then that's your choice. That's what he's been doing, going back to Genesis 12 that Hank brought up earlier. You're going to be a blessing to all nations. Why? Because we're going to invite everybody on both

sides of the veil to come home. We're going to do that and we're not going to force people. And Hank, you're common with your son to do missionary work. Have them read this and if it means something to you, great. Let's go. And if it doesn't, then that's between you and the Lord. We're going to move on. It's almost like the Book of Mormon is a Israel detector, right? Just beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, be. Israel detector. Or I would even say a soft heart detector. Yeah. People at different times might be in a different place. right? So somebody might reject it at one point in their life, then it changes their life at another point. The first half of my mission, I felt bad that everybody I'd met didn't get baptized. I felt like

I must be not doing a good job. Then I had this turning point at about the halfway point where I realized my message was to invite people to come home. I was going to invite them to use their agency. And if they didn't want to and if I was doing my best, that wasn't on me. I love how I preach my gospel. says that your success as a missionary is not how many baptisms you got. It's not that. It's about what kind of missionary you were, what you became, and how you invited people. I think that phrase is doing just that. You're helping the Lord fulfill his promise to go invite everyone. So they may not accept the invitation, but you're fulfilling the Lord's promise. We're going to invite you. I love it. This is the beauty of God's work. In the process of being yoked with

God to invite Israel to come home, you are bringing yourself home. In other words, it's the process of, so what's happening with Hank, your son, and John, you said your daughter got her mission call? Yeah. In the process of bringing people to Christ, we bring ourselves to Christ. I love it in Third Nephi when he stands there and says, do you have any sick among you? Bring them to me. And I always say to the class, isn't that weird that Jesus didn't go to that blind guy over there? Jesus just stands and brings that blind guy to me. Isn't that kind of selfish?

Like, why won't the Savior go to that blind guy? Then we look at the verse carefully and, well, no, we're bringing those people. We have a part to play. And I believe that even if I wasn't outwardly halt or lame or blind or deaf, we all have a wound concealed. If I'm bringing other people to Christ, I'm healed in the process. I love it. I've noticed in Genesis 12

where the very first mention of this with Abraham, Abraham has one job and the Lord has a bunch. He says, Abraham, get you away from that country, your kindred, and from your father's house. I will show you the land. I will make you a great nation.

I will make you a blessing. I will bless them that bless the, in the I will bless all the families of the earth. We do have a role to play. the Lord's going to empower you. And our come follow me that we did with the Deuteronomy chapters, there's a passage that I love where it says, I'm going to be the one who's going to give you power to get wealth to establish my covenant. Think about that.

I'm going to give you power to get wealth. It's not you. You've got to acknowledge God. So if you're prospering and you're getting wealth, to what end? It's not that you can have a nice home or have the things. but in the end it's to be able to establish the covenant. It's to be able to further the work of God. It's so that temples can be built and the work of salvation and exaltation can be brought

about upon the earth. That's in the end what it's about. And I think that's really cool. The other phrase here is when he says, come home. So home. I was thinking about that. Have you guys ever heard the phrase you can never go home? Have you guys ever heard that?

Like somebody says, if you leave on a mission, you're never going to quite be able to come home again. There's this idea you can't come home. In the great myth stories like, for example, in the Lord the Rings, after Frodo has gone through his experience, when he goes back to the Shire, not the same. Even though geographically it's the same because he's so radically changed, he actually doesn't eventually stay in the Shire. Remember that? he can't stay there he can't be there that's super interesting because the phrase in hebrews chapter 11 verse 13 in section 45 verse 13 is that we are pilgrims and strangers here when he's calling us to come home i've been thinking a lot about each word each phrase what's he calling us to

do it's we're strangers and pilgrims here sometimes the problem is we get to like it much, but we have to remember we're strangers and pilgrims. This is not home. Now, I'm going to tell you when I read the book of Mormon the first time, and I prayed about it, and I felt the Holy Ghost bearing testimony to my spirit, the very first thought that came to my mind was, I'm home. The Holy Ghost spirit-to-spirit communication with my spirit, and I'm telling you, as an 18-year-old, my very first thought was, it's home. I'm home. When Jesus will say to all Israel, come home, I don't think he's talking about a mortal location as much as he's talking about that companionship with the gift of the Holy Ghost and the companionship with God and his people. That's what he means.

Then eventually, I think it's actually eternal home. I love that. And I've heard a lot of people who have expressed this similar thought about, I felt like I was coming home when the restored gospel was explained to them or something. Maybe that's that Holy Ghost feeling of comfort, security, familiarity. The word family is part of the word familiarity. There's this feeling of home and family. Yeah, I love that.

Yep. This idea of we're inviting people, and if they'll feel that, allow themselves. in 1 Corinthians chapter 2 in verse 13 Paul talks about the spirit of God, the spirit of man, how do we know the things of God? And you guys know the verses and our listeners do as well that the things of God are only known by the spirit of God.

We are so drenched in the world where we only can know things by our five senses. It's our five senses and reason. But Paul says, the natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit of God for remember what he said, verse 14, they are foolishness unto him. Neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. He says something in verse 13 that we've received the Spirit of God. Now we can compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Now let me tell you what I think he means there. I think he's saying that John, when you and I have a conversation, because I know you've felt the Holy Ghost, we can talk about that. But if you're talking to somebody who's never felt or never recognized that they felt the Holy Ghost, it's a very difficult conversation to have. You can't compare spiritual things with spiritual. What we're inviting people to do is to actually have an experience. Hank, you brought up that the Book of Mormon becomes the sign or the instrument by which we can do that. If they'll read the Book of Mormon and study the book of Mormon and then take the invitation to talk to God and allow themselves to get out of only knowing things by their five senses or reason that there is another facility or faculty by which

we can know things and that's the Holy Ghost. Until you've had that experience, what I'm saying right now is foolishness. It means nothing to them. They can't understand it. But if they'll have a soft enough heart to take the invitation, then we can compare spiritual things with spiritual. I think that's an amazing thing. I had a conversation with Elder Christofferson. It's been a lot of years now. We were with a handful of missionaries and their dads, and my nephew invited me because his dad had no interest in going. Someone asked, Elder Christopherson, what advice you have for these missionaries? The first one was fun. He said, don't do dumb things. You have the name of the church on your badge. So he told the story of a missionary that climbed up on a Buddha and they took a picture and

a missionary ended up going to prison for a little while and set the work back. And he said, just don't do dumb things. And he said something that really surprised me. He said, if someone is not taking the Book of Mormon seriously, you can move on. Which was surprising to me, but then over the ears has made perfect sense. The Book of Mormon is the tool. That's the tool. Perfect sense.

That is beautiful. I had an experience, various experiences with people, but we had a family we taught. It was my companion, Elder Jones and I, and we were in this downtown called Mardel Plata. Interestingly, this doesn't often happen. The man was interested, but the wife wasn't. It was usually the reverse. I don't know if you guys had that experience as well. In fact, she, like, screamed at us and basically got a broom and chased us out of her house.

I thought, okay, all right, that's a bummer. We're never going back there. I don't want to have that experience again. And it was a couple months. And I think Elder Jones said, hey, why don't we go talk to those people? Like, are you sure, man? That lady came out of us with a broom, man.

We went back and we clapped the door because you don't knock on doors in Argentina. So we clapped and she came out. And I was like, uh-oh. And she's like, come in, come in. She'd been reading the Book of Mormon. Her heart was softened. And she was like, I am ready.

Anyway, she got baptized. Her family got baptized. her husband later passed away. She had three daughters and they stayed active. Then the interesting part of the story is my son interned for a law firm in Buenos Aires. And then this is 25 years later, maybe even a little longer. My son says, hey, dad, where should I go to church? I go, hey, get on a bus, go to Mardal Plata.

I want you to go to church there. And he's like, okay. So he goes to church in Mardelplata. And he stayed at a friend's house and then went to this. particular ward. I didn't even tell him which ward to go to, but he went to this particular ward, and she was there. Because he introduced himself as a visitor. She said, Baron, who's your dad? And Ross Barron, and he baptized me. He taught our family. That to me is this idea, these kind of experiences of coming home. And Jesus is coordinating again, that incredible,

powerful work organizing all of it. I have my very, very, very, favorite quotation, modern prophet that anybody's ever said, ever, and I reserve the right to change my mind next week, if I find another one. But my very favorite thing I've ever heard anybody say ever, when you get to heaven, this is just a dumb poem, you will likely view. Many folks whose presence there will be a shock to you. But keep it very quiet. Do not even stare. Likely, there'll be many folks surprised to see you there. You got reaped. You were, yeah.

Yeah. The idea, what might surprise you when you get to the other side? First time I heard that it was President Iring used it in a talk in 1991, but actually came from a talk of President Ezra Taf Benson called Jesus Christ, gifts and expectations that he gave in 1975 at BYU. He said this, my favorite thing I've ever heard anybody say, speaking of home, he said, nothing is going to startle us more when we passed through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our father and how familiar his face is to us.

It reminds me of something Brigham Young said similar, but with more Brigham Young sound to it. He said, still we, unless the vision of the spirit is open to us, know nothing about God. You know much about him if you did, but realize it. And there is no other one item that will so much astound you when your eyes are opened in eternity as to think that you are so stupid in the body. That is very Brigham sounding. I like the way President Benson said it. Not only will it surprise you, but nothing will surprise you more than how well you know your Heavenly Father and how familiar his face is to you. And that's the home that we're talking about because we're strangers here.

And that's the hymn, oh, my father. Something whispers, you're a stranger here. Ross, I think knowing this story of the scattering and the gathering can answer a lot of questions that people have. For example, many people have said, well, if this was really the Lord's Church, it wouldn't have been a lot bigger. If you understand this, there's phases to this gathering. What phase are we in right now? Like, I know it's hard to say, but what would you say? I was addressing that earlier.

I think we're definitely not in phase one or phase two. We are in a different phase right now. In the April general conference, they reported the 2025, convert baptisms were 385,000. That's 32,000 approximately convert baptisms per month. That's 10 stakes. Per month. Okay. That is astronomical to me. How do you keep up? I just saw an interview on YouTube with Elder Clark G. Gilbert of the Quorum of the 12 with the area of presidency in a particular area in South

Africa where the church is growing so fast that like we said earlier, the biggest issue there is managing the growth, training leaders and understanding how to manage the kingdom of God in that part of the vineyard. I think we are on the cusp. of even greater and bigger things. Because think about it, 385 temples, over 100,000 missionaries. You were joking a little bit,

but you said, Hank, there's more seasoned Latter-day Saints on the other side of the veil than on this side of the veil right now. That's true. That means, and President Oak said this, there are more people with experience and missionary work

on the other side of the veil. You think about the scale of the work on the, other side of the veil, then the need for those people on the other side of the veil who are actually trying to influence people on this side of the veil to do God's work and families and the spirit of Elijah that's working on people, I think we're on the cusp of something. Now, we're not fully in China because we're not recognized there and we're never going to do it unless we're fully legal and recognized. But you all know that there are people who are legally members of the church.

in China who don't violate the laws there and we don't violate the laws either and we never will. But when it's ready, when it's ready, there will be, in my view, an avalanche of great people there. Then when we have another podcast, we'll say there's going to be a lot more people that are joining in the church than 385,000 in a year. Again, I think that number is astronomical. That doesn't count children of record baptisms. I think we're at a half a million in 2025 people, including children of record, eight-year-olds who were baptized and then convert baptisms. It seems like a very large number to me, but the Lord's doing his work.

Right. Measured growth. But accelerating the momentum. I want to make sure we get that. God's hastening his work and accelerating the momentum. He's using the technology. He's using the gifts that we have to be able to further his work. again on both sides of the veil.

When we talk about rapid growth as a problem, isn't that an awesome problem? Isn't that an awesome problem when I cannot find a seat in any temple around me to be able to go do an endowment? I know. I can't do it. Honestly, I mean, I've gone, if I'm making a reservation, I actually cannot find a seat.

Ross, are we still in the gathering the gatherers face? I think we're overlapping. I think we're overlapping. We're not officially going to Jews. Okay, so there's no official mission to juice. We're still in the gathering of the Gentiles and we're still in the gathering of the larger house of Israel. There will be a time under the direction of the first presidency in the quorum of the 12 when we will go to Jews. That's clear. By the way, are Jews baptized? Sure, there's people that are Jewish that are baptized and who find the truth. And that's awesome. And I should be clear on this podcast, we do not proselyte to the state of Israel. There's no proselyting going on in the Jerusalem

center. We are absolutely strict in keeping our promises made to the state of Israel. There's no book of Mormon that's translated officially into Hebrew by the church. That's not something that the church participates at this point because we want to be hyper careful. Again, we keep our agreements, we keep what we're true to our word, and we're going to abide by the loss. Hank, are we gathering Israel? Yeah. Are we gathering Gentiles? Yeah. It's getting on a larger and larger scale. And the gathering continues after the Lord? This is a fun one. I teach Jesus Christ in the everlasting gospel and we talk about the millennium. I'll walk into class and I'll show them a quote, a couple different quotes from prophets,

that there's going to be major missionary work during the millennium. And they're all like, wait. What? There's people that are not of our faith on the earth during the millennium? Yeah. Wait, how is that possible? And we go through that the millennium is a terrestrial state. So the good, honorable people of the earth abide the day.

That means Buddhists and Hindus and Taoists and evangelicals and Jews and atheists who are good, honorable people will be on the earth during the millennium. will then be doing missionary work. It might look a lot different than the way we do it now, but we're going to be doing missionary work. I want Joseph to be my companion when we share the first vision.

I think that'll be fun. I'm going to let Elder Smith here. Anyway, we're going to do missionary work in the millennium so the gathering will continue and not just during the millennium, but the gathering continues in the spirit world. That's what's going on in the spirit world.

We're knocking on spirit world doors we are inviting people to come unto Christ because we're telling them that Jesus will say to all Israel come home. Like he's inviting them on that side of the veil. First Peter chapter 4 verse 3, they're going to be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God and the Spirit. That's what's going to happen. And that's what's going on this very moment. Genesis chapter 12, he intends to bless all the families of the earth. That might take a while.

This is still a one-by-one. you have to be converted. It's not an automatic thing. No. It's a one by one thing. And each person counts. So, John 4, it says, Jesus must go through Samaria.

And I always like to say, why? I think it's for one woman who's at a well. One woman at a well. He can talk to her. Then what does she do? she goes out and spreads the gospel. And then what happens in Acts chapter 8? They have a huge harvest of souls in Samaria.

And Peter John and John are sent up there to give him the gift of the Holy Ghost. It must need to go through Samaria because he's going to talk to one woman who's not even like full blood Israel. It's one by one. The work's going on. The work will continue to go on. By the way, I'm gathered. But like my story about the wheat and the tears, am I fully gathered? I hope I am.

but there's work to be done with me in terms of me fully coming unto Jesus Christ. Remember when he shows up to the Nephites? These are the ones who are spared. He says, you guys need to repent and come onto me and be converted and be healed. And I'm like, wait, wait, what? I think the idea of fully being gathered

is ongoing in my own life, who am a devout Latter-day Saint. President Oakes gave that talk the challenge to become, because that's the ongoing personal gathering. I'm becoming. I know what to do. Now I have to do what I know. And when I know what to do and I do what I know,

I begin to become the process is ongoing as I invite Christ to come in and change my life and change my heart. I keep becoming because I think when you said, you would be reaped. I thought, yeah, so would I. I can't say it about anybody else, but the spirit definitely told me I'd be reaped. And I was like, ooh, that hurts. Okay, let's skip this part. Yeah. Let's skip this tear part. Ross, speaking to the Old Testament, why does the Lord, why doesn't he give up on Israel and go to a new family?

Because the story of the Old Testament is really, you're going to be the family that blesses all the families of the earth. Okay, go. And it's a disaster almost every time. I mean, a little bit. So every once in a while, he hit a, hit it, but the most part, they don't do it. And he even says, okay, we're going to have a scattering. It's going to be a couple thousand years. We're going to try again. Yeah, we're good. I'm playing the long game here. Read Jacob Five. One of my responses to that, I think it's a profound doctrinal revelation, and that's premortality. I think without the knowledge of premortality, there's things we don't get. Israel was chosen to do the work of God, not here, but before we, we came here. The Lord is going to keep his promises and he's going to keep working with his people

because he promised that you guys are going to be the one I'm going to work with to accomplish my purposes. That's how I respond to that. I've been asked that in class. You know, like, why doesn't the Lord just like choose some other people because they're not doing a great job? The answer is, no, we made choices. Those things are being played out. I would also say, I don't know if we fully know. I think that's one part of the reason. Another one is God's doing his work, his way with his power. His ways are higher than my ways. And I don't know everything.

Israel was chosen to be Israel before they showed up on the planet. Yeah. Harold B. Lee in his opening address as the president of the church, basically the whole talk is about Israel premortality, chosen, that we have to carry out that responsibility. This goes back to, again, Hank brought up multiple times, Genesis chapter 12, that we're Abraham seed, we are Israel seed. I have a job to do. I have responsibility. I have to realize this is, again, Hank, your point about, like, once I get who I am, man, I can now go do that work with a fullness and a purpose of heart that I couldn't otherwise have gotten. And I'll get distracted by cool things on earth. Then I start to forget I'm a stranger and a pilgrim here. I forget that. I think, again, God, wants us to enjoy. Men are that they might have joy, but that joy comes when we are fully yoked in the service of God. To me, this is one of the testimonies of the prophet Joseph Smith. I don't know, maybe it's just me. If I was going to start a church in Joseph Smith's Day and I wanted to get a lot of people involved, I'd probably write the book of Peter or another book of John. But instead, he's writing

the book of Moses and the book of Abraham. I don't know if that would come to mind, especially he's a young adults, right? He's in his early 20s. He's like, I got more to say about Abraham. What? Yeah, we're going to do some more stuff on Abraham. Everyone's like, hmm, okay. Is he a major player in this? We're looking for a New Testament church, and you're talking about Abraham? Do you know who Jan Ships is? She's a scholar about the Latter-day Saints. Right. So I was on a committee with Jan Ships when I taught at the Claremont Institute. and I live down there in Claremont. She is a scholar or was.

She's passed away about Latter-day Saints. Amazing woman. She was incredible. And she knew everything about the church. By the way, she would carry around a book of Mormon, fully marked. She would go to General Conference. Elder Oaks, then Elder Oaks referred to her as our beloved Gentile, which is kind of a fun thing for him to say.

She loved the church. I was on this committee with her, and she's like about four feet, 10 or four feet 11. She was an older woman. She was fiery and loved the church. And like I said, read the book of Mormon. She talked about these phases that I kind of like. She said phase one, 1820 to early 1830s, was the return of the New Testament church. Then she said phase two was when they started talking about the Old Testament, Melchesdic and Abrahamic type things. Then she said, said phase three was the fullness of the temple endowment. Then Joseph has then taken. That was her insight. I'll tell you one other Jan Shipp story. We had a decision. This was at the Claremont

colleges. They wanted to establish a chair for studies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterty Saints, which is there now established. She gave a talk about are we Christian? Are Latter-day Saints Christians? I remember, I was on the committee and I was remember like, oh, my word. I was like, They're going to come out and they're going to be like, they're going to take pot shots at her. Like, it's going to be harsh. So we had this huge meeting and all these people came. Jan Ships was the speaker. Remember, she's like 410.

She gives this talk and she's like, Latter Day Saints are Christians. They believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ. She's just amazing. Then did a Q&A. And I was like, oh, no, here it comes. These antis get up and they start attacking her. And grandma just came on fire and just responded like, It was incredible. And then I had this epiphany again. I realized she's doing more for the kingdom outside of the church than if she were in the church. There's this statement by Orson F. Whitney where he's saying, God's using more than one people to accomplish his work. I remember thinking, wow. Do you remember the Orson F. Whitney quote? He temporarily veils the truth to some people in order to bring about his purposes. So anyway, I got to witness that. But she was part of.

of if we want to connect it back to Jesus saying, all Israel come home. She invited people in a very powerful way and testified of the truthfulness without being a member of the church. That's another answer to that question I asked you previously, which was a critic might say, oh, the church should be bigger if it's really the Lord's Church.

He's working with everyone, especially those who are willing to let him prevail. Exactly. That statement, the church should be a bigger church if it was the Lord's Church. Is that true? Is that historically true? Was that true when Jesus was on earth?

If Jesus is the Christ, shouldn't everyone have accepted him? No, because why? John chapter 3, 18 through 21. They love darkness more than they love light because their deeds were evil. They don't want anything to do with Jesus. The whole assumption behind that question is weird to me and is not scriptural. It's a very Luke 24 moment. Oh, you fools.

Do you not read? Oh, you fools. You slow of heart, right? Slow to understand. You have to believe. Yeah, like what the world. Because even the disciples in that road to Amaya's don't recognize Jesus. Ross, don't you think knowing this story can empower a missionary who's facing rejection?

You said it earlier. You're thinking, why isn't everybody getting baptized? Well, we're doing a difficult work. The gathering is a difficult thing. Remember Elder Holland when he said, it was hard for Jesus. It's going to be hard for us. I think that's a wake-up call. I don't know about you guys.

One of the biggest wake-up calls for me was when my companion and I taught a family and the spirit of God was like a fire burning and they bore testimony to us. Then when we came back for our follow-up appointment, they wanted nothing to do with us. They said at the door, we know what you told us is true. We don't want to change. Don't ever come back. I'm going to be honest, that put me in a funk for about two weeks. That was hard for me.

I never, ever thought, it never had crossed my mind that if somebody knew the truth, they wouldn't want to obey it. And these people made a conscious decision and told us in a conscious way. We know what you said is true. We don't want to change. Don't ever come back. And I remember thinking, whoa, that's different to me. That's Hank what you were saying when that guy's like, well, the church would be bigger. Well, the natural man is an ending with God and has been and will be forever and ever until you what you yield to the enticings of the holy ghost it's reported that mother teresa said this i don't have the source but i've always loved it it's reported that she said we are not called to be successful in all things we're called to be faithful in all things you're inviting

we're looking for israel mother teresa also said people would criticize her you can't help the millions and tens of millions of people that are poor in india and she goes i can help one And she did what she could. She hath done what she could. What is that amazing statement of Jesus? A reporter once saw her helping a leper and he said, oh, I wouldn't do that for a million dollars. She looked at him and said, neither would I. Ross, now I've been on the earth long enough to notice some change. It seems to me that President Nelson accelerated the work by saying, we need to focus more on this story. Not that before him, anybody was doing anything wrong. I just think his role, when it can, came was to hone in on or put the gas on this scattering gathering, gathering story.

Did you see that when, as you watched him? On the scattering, on the gathering, on covenant, on all these aspects and of being like an exacto blade, razor sharp, this is what we're doing. This is why we're on earth. Remember that line? If you want to be part of something big, I love that. You can be part of it. And it's the most important work.

But he was razor sharp about that, like we talked about earlier. The cohort who's coming from premortality into these physical bodies now are people prepared to hear that message. It resonated with them. And he felt inspired to do that. If you look at the way prophets have been Book of Mormon, okay, now we're going to focus on Book of Mormon. Then these things, Howard W. Hunter, nine months, he's the prophet. What does he focus on? Have a current temple recommend.

Have a current temple recommend. What's that in preparation for? and be hinkly we're going to explode temple building every prophet is being led and guided and directed so that the work is going to progress according to the measured pace that god is doing his work and present monson wouldn't you say as well humanitarian work humanitarian we're going to add caring for those in need we're not as church if we don't care for people in need by the way i want to say this on caring for those in need no one does it better no one The other day in class, we were talking about fast offerings, and some kids totally didn't understand it.

We went through the handbook about what a fast offering is. And I said this question, what percentage of that dollar goes to the person in need? And they were like, what? I said, if I gave a dollar to fast offering, what percentage of that dollar goes to the person in need? Somebody said, 100 cents on the dollar. I was like, 100% true. That's correct. There's no administrative fee taken off the top.

No one gets an executive fee taken off the top. No one does this better than the church and Jesus Christ through his servants. No one. You said earlier the $1.6 billion. And we also need to talk about the 7.4 million hours. It's not just let's throw money at a problem. It's people investing their time into these projects. But here's something else not included. It's local wards using fast offerings. That's not part of the humanitarian effort. We have 33,000 wards or something like that, and there's a bishop of every ward who's given the keys.

People might not understand this either. The first presidency in the coroner 12 don't dictate who gets welfare service in a ward, the stake president. Now you counsel with the stake president on some issues, but it's the bishop who decides, under the guidance and direction of the Holy Ghost, oftentimes in counsel with maybe the relief study president or others, but in the end, that's administrative.

locally to bless the lives of both non-members and members within those boundaries. People don't often realize that either. If you're not a member, a bishop can use fast offerings to bless the lives of those not of our faith. That's not included in the 1.6 billion. It's not in that number. Tithing was never meant to do that. It was fast offerings that were meant to fast offerings. That's not tithing. Ross, what happens if a ward doesn't have enough fast offerings to cover the need of the ward? let's go with the surplus. Let's say at the end of the year, we haven't spent our fast offering.

Then that would go to the stake fast offering surplus or to the general fast offering surplus of the church. If a ward has a deficit, that would then be taken from either the stake or from the general fast offerings of the church. When you're paying fast offerings, say, for example, in your ward in a prosperous ward,

in all likelihood, that's going to bless people worldwide. that fast offering might not be used in your ward, but it's going to be blessing people worldwide. I wonder how much money that is. I don't know. It's not part of tithing. It's not part of humanitarian aid. It's kept quiet. Yeah, it's kept quiet. I mean, I know what my ward does, but I'm not going to divulge that, and I know how that works. But I will tell you that my YSA ward, so I'm talking about young people, super generous and very consecrated. we have a surplus every single month in our ward that goes to bless people worldwide. And I know they don't have much, man. They don't have much.

And I tell them, I go, look, the minimum is the two meals you went without. Calculate that. It's between you and the Lord. I love the genius of what you just described, Ross, that a bishop is going to sit across the desk or in a chair. It's a one-by-one thing you mentioned before, Hank. we're going to ask for inspiration and see what do you need? What is the best way to actually help with this situation? Instead of somebody in an office with a machine that writes checks,

you're going to sit and talk about what do we need the Lord to do? What do we need the church to do for you? What do you need to do, do you think? I've been part of those discussions and have received help, I'll tell you. And what a genius way to do it, one by one? It's one of the greatest things. We could have an episode on that. It's actually part of the marvelous work and a wonder. How that we take care of those in need is part of the marvelous work and wonder.

I wrote a letter to the President of the United States. I literally did. I laid out how we could solve the problem in the United States of America if we would implement what the church is doing. I had it edited. My wife looked at. We all looked at it. Oh, this is great. I never got a response. But I think it should be implemented and it's shocking. It's incredible. Listen to this from Elder Christopherson, talking about what the church does to help the poor. He's talking about someone who's unemployed. As days lengthened into weeks and months and even years of adversity, the hurt grows deeper. The church cannot hope to save a man on Sunday if during the week it is a complacent witness to the crucifixion of his soul.

Ross, I have another question for you. And this goes back to what we talked about when you were with us on Third Nephi. I hope everyone will go listen to that. This is an extension of that conversation. you said something that really helped me understand a phrase we see in scripture quite a bit, and that is that the sons of Levi do offer again unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. That's something that I've seen in Scripture and thought, I don't know what that means, but sounds like a good, like a gift, that they're going to offer the Lord a gift.

Can you get excited about that again and just do a brief summary of what you said then? the idea of the sons of Levi, of course, is tapping into this idea of the Old Testament. They're the people that can minister ordinances in the temple. In Section 84, the doctrine and covenants and the oath and covenant, we're told when we receive the Melchizedic priesthood, we become the sons of Levi. All worthy Melchizedic priesthood holders, whatever your tribe, you become sons of Levi. Hence, we can officiate in the temple. Hence, one of the reasons you have to be ordained to the Melchizedic priesthood, as a male before you can be endowed is so you can officiate in the ordinances of the temple. Women are not ordained to the offices in the priesthood or conferred the priesthood upon them, but something about by virtue of being a woman, you do not have to have the priesthood conferred upon you ordained to an office to go into the temple and to perform ordinances. Now, that has not been fully revealed why, but there's something by virtue of being a woman that allows you to do things inside God's house.

I find that fascinating, and during the millennium, we can ask the Lord in our FAQ that question. I'll be like, Ross is asking too many questions. Now here's the top four questions. Evolution, Age of the Earth, dinosaurs, is it foyer or foyer? And then there'll be some other questions. Those are the big four, yeah.

And he's going to give us an FAQ pamphlet and say, never ask me these questions again. because I've answered them right here. Then we go into the temple. We perform these ordinances. The Lord then says, well, what's the offering? It begs the question. Who are the sons of Levi?

Okay, I've said Melcheseic priesthood holder. What's the offering and righteousness? In Section 128 of Doctrine Covenants, Joseph Smith writes a letter. At the end of that letter, he says, we have to offer to the Lord again an offering in righteousness, which is a book of our dead,

worthy of all acceptation. So the offering we offer in the latter days is not a blood sacrifice or killing an animal. It's that we, what have we done? We have gathered Israel. We offer under the Lord a book worthy of all acceptation, which is everything we could do on this side of the veil to be able to do the work of God

and bring people to Jesus Christ. I don't know the exact timing, but a couple of years ago, the first presidency asked, this was President Nelson, President Oaks, and President Irring. They asked Elder Hamilton and his team to meet with them. Elder Hamilton was the executive director over family history. He said, we're concerned about oral histories in Africa being lost. Now, I don't know about you guys, but that's not something I've been concerned about. That's not on my radar. So the first presidency invites Elder Hamilton in and they said, we'd like you to come back with a proposal.

He meets with his team and he comes back with a proposal. It's a budget allotment. They actually request that people be hired instead of volunteers because they want some native Africans to go into these small villages. And each village has a rememberer. They don't have written records. They have rememberers who keep in their minds like 20 generations of everyone connected. It's in their mind.

Here's the first presidency, Peter James and John, being guided by the Holy Ghost. The Elder Hamilton comes back and says, well, here's our proposal. They make this proposal. They just finished their two millionth interview. They got hundreds of millions of names that are now in the database. I just think to myself, that is incredible. That is Jesus inviting all Israel to come home. That is part of that book worthy of all acceptation. What's the offering that we make? It's the offering of the people we've gathered via inviting all to come into Christ via missionary work here. It's that book we're going to

do of all of our dead. That's how I understand the sons of Levi offering and offering again unto the Lord in righteousness. Beautiful. Jesus will invite all Israel to come home. And third Nephi 20, the Savior's visit among the Nephites, verse 13. And then shall the remnants which shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth. Okay. John. you talked about scattered gathered Notice what the Lord says Which shall be scattered abroad Upon the face of the earth

Be gathered in From where? From the east, from the west, From the south and from the north. How will they be gathered? And they shall be brought To the knowledge of the Lord their God Who hath redeemed them.

They're eventually brought To Jesus Christ And to that knowledge of Jesus Christ. The ultimate gathering isn't about me moving To a particular place. It's I am. brought to Jesus Christ, the Lord my God, who hath redeemed me. That is the work that's going on right now. We're trying to find people who are willing to let God prevail. In our own hearts,

we can say, am I willing to let God prevail? I'll go where you want me to go. I'll do what you want me to do. I'll be what you want me to be. No tall order. Easy to sing, harder to do. But be willing to Let God prevail. That's the goal. Ross, thank you for pointing that out. I had never made this connection before. John knows I have a little pet theory that the Book of Mormon was named after the waters of Mormon. You just read 3rd Nephi, 2013. They shall be brought to the knowledge of the Lord their God who hath redeemed them. Mosiah 1830.

When was the church organized? 1830. Talks about all this was done in Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the place of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, how beautiful are they, the waters of Mormon, to the eyes of them who, there came to the knowledge of their redeemer. The Lord could be making a reference to the book of Mormon in that verse you just read. They shall be brought to the knowledge of the Lord their God, who hath redeemed them. That's beautiful.

That's great. Jesus will say to all Israel, come home. Now they know who's inviting him. right that's right it's all about the book man that book yeah john before we go can i read the last two paragraphs of the manual this is beautiful as one who has made a covenant with god you are a part of the house of israel you have been gathered and you are a gatherer the centuries long epic story of the covenant people is building to its climax and you are a key player now is the time when Jesus will say to all Israel, come home.

This is the message of the gatherers. Come home to the covenant. Come home to Zion. Come home to Jesus Christ, the Holy One of Israel, and he will bring you home to God, your father. So let's do it. We've been invited home. Let's gather the fam.

Let's go home. Ross, we call it thoughts to keep in mind, but my mind cannot contain all of Ross's thoughts. I have a binder to keep in mind Ross's thoughts. I want to print out these show notes, which we have on our website so that I can reread these again. Thank you so much for being here today. What's our next segment of thoughts to keep in mind? We're going to be talking about an interesting and technical topic, but it'll be super fun. It's essentially Hebrew poetry. It's kind of looking at the Psalms, Proverbs, even a little bit. it. Then the writings of Isaiah, who uses extensive Hebrew poetry, Jeremiah not so much. Jeremiah is not

really doing that. Other minor prophets, we call them minor prophets. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel are considered the major prophets and then the minor prophets. Some of the minor prophets have extensive Hebrew poetry. It can be tricky because poetry in English, if your native tongue is tricky, it can be tricky. You've got to read a little slower and you have to look at what's going on here and it doesn't always translate into the king james straight across i actually think it'll be super helpful and very fun and very interesting wonderful we do a little bit of hebrew forest then ross because we love it when you got okay no i'm gonna get some haching going yeah sounds super cool okay in fact there's some meter to hebrew poetry and interestingly a lot of people don't

realize there's some rhyme every now and then isaiah especially, he will rhyme things. So he'll find an obscure word. It's funny because he'll say something that everyone kind of gets. And then he finds an obscure word because it rhymed. And everyone's like, whoa, like, okay, that worked. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thanks for tuning in everyone for another episode of thoughts to keep in mind with Ross. We'll have him back again. As you just heard, thanks again for joining us. We'll see you soon on another episode of Follow Him. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we'd love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament.

It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.com. That's followhim.co. To download your free copy today, and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our Follow Him family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kubica, Sidney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen.

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