Fore Play - A Boondoggle Boy Convention with the OG Matt Ginella

Episode Date: August 23, 2018

The boondoggle OG himself, Matt Ginella, joins us to deliver crucial insight on all those questions you have about where to book buddies trips, how to do it, and why to do it. Matt's got great stories and unmatched experience. He's been EVERYWHERE. Frankie Butter Knives also joins the crew on the phone from Saratoga as we weigh in on the Phil/Tiger twitter beef forming for their upcoming match. Finally, we lay out what we expect, like, and don't like about the FedEx Cup playoffs! You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

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At checkout, we're going to get you 30 bucks off of your first box. Start spending less time in your closet and more time on the course. Visit short par 4.com. Use the code 4 at checkout. You're going to get 30 bucks off your first box, short par 4 style delivered. We have a big show. We have an awesome show. Matt Janella from Golf.

channel joins us for almost an hour. We talk about all kinds of destinations, trips. It is the most engagement inquiries that I get are about different golf trips that we all get. You know, going to this place, going to that place, where should I go? Why should I go there? If I'm going to go to Scotland or I'm going to go to Ireland, how do I do it? Where do I begin? All of that stuff. Cabot versus Bandon. Why is Bannon so special? How did it begin? All of that stuff is covered with Maginella. It flew. It flew. We talked to him for over an hour. or not almost an hour, and it felt like it was 10 minutes. We could have talked to him for 10 hours.

I gave him the old, like, man, we'll just do 20 to 30 minutes if that's cool. He's like, no problem. We looked at it had been over 50 minutes. We've got to wrap this thing up. So it was fascinating. He's an unbelievably cool guy. Very cool guy.

He had interviewed us on TV for the first time. One day let us knuckleheads be on a golf channel. You stared at yourself on the floor the whole time. I did. That's, you know, it happens. We also have Frankie Burelli, Mr. Butternives himself out there in up in Saratoga. Hello, how's it going? You guys sound great.

I think the last time I was on the phone was post-masters this year. Oh, yeah, when we called him. Right. Yep, you were on Long Island, I believe. Yeah, I mean, this just brings back a feeling of, you know, like, Tiger, and I know we're going to talk Tiger today, but, like, I love hearing you guys on the phone. It's a nice little change of pace. You know, I like being in Saratoga. I'm here for the Travers of Dave and Barstow Radio.

It's a great experience up here my first time, but I love hearing some first time. But I love hearing some familiar voices back home. I know you guys are in the studio. So this is exciting stuff. It's true, Frankie. It does feel like you're out there doing something. Like we've got like this correspondent out there at fucking at up in Tarotoga. Like you're doing something special for us.

That's what it sounds like. Yeah, I'm like I'm in a room. We rented a house. I'm like walking around that room. Like I have a lot of room for activities in here. I'm just like pacing around. Like they probably are downstairs like Dave's friend like Brett are down there. They probably just hear, like, footsteps, like, walking around the room.

But that's just me just, like, pacing. Like, I just, like, feel like I'm active. I'm not, like, caged up inside the studio right now. I'm just, like, I'm free-range. I'm, like, I'm miles away from you guys. Miles away. But it sounds like you're right next to us. Just talking right here at the studio.

We've even got an open spot for you right in the middle. God. It's nice. All right. We got some golf to talk about. We're going to start with, I hate to do it, but we got to start with Phil and Tiger, are just dominating headlines.

They're absolutely cucking the FedEx Cup playoffs right now. FedEx Cup playoffs start tomorrow, which is, you know, we're recording on Wednesday. This comes out on Thursday. Playoffs are starting. It's this big thing, all this money, $10 million first prize. It's the next four, the next five weeks, and then it builds up to the Ryder Cup, all this stuff. They just released today.

Tiger puts out this graphic, the match. It's happening. Thanksgiving weekend. Well, and before that it was Phil joined Twitter, which was like, what's going. on here. The first domino is falling. He joined Twitter this morning and I put it in my blog about Phil Voint joining Twitter. I was like, why? I looked at all the angles. I was like, why is this happening? What is going on here? He maybe wants to build his brand, but the Phil Mickelson brand is strong. I mean, he doesn't, he's this type of guy. It's strong, but it took a little bit of a hit

this year with his U.S. Open antics and all that. Oh, that's true. But it's still strong. He does seem like one of the guys where if I was Phil Mickelson, I would not join Twitter. There's no reason for a guy like him to be on Twitter because he's going to find out very quickly that people are very mean on Twitter, but then we come to find out a few hours later. Tiger tweets out this, this graphic where he's got the lefty driver, and then they're talking shit on Twitter. So Phil joining Twitter was a very, I mean, that was planned. It was pretty calculated. So, yeah, I got to say that at the very beginning of these two on Twitter back and forth was the most obvious, like, intern versus intern, social media, intern battle I've ever seen in my entire life?

I actually, see, rigged, I actually took it the other way. I thought it was higher-ups. I pictured like a 63rd story conference table overlooking New York City with all these old-ass like brokers and like bankers all sitting around a table in suits like wondering how they're going to construct like drama in this $10 million Las Vegas match to Tiger Woods and Phil Nicholson. Like I picture them like crafting out the tweets on like whiteboards and bringing in like all sorts of presentations. Like should we use this laughing emoji by Phil?

Like is he a laughing emoji type guy? Like the young ins, they love those like water drippings off the face. Like you know, like just like saying ridiculous stuff like breaking mid tweet to like go get lunch and everything. Like I just thought it was like a whole day thing to craft these tweets. Like if anyone thinks Phil Mickelson was just firing off tweets like as he said, sitting down at his house right before the FedEx Cup playoffs. Like, you're insane. Well, I didn't think they were ever going for authenticity, but you're right.

It's the emoji thing that there's just no way that that's Phil because, I mean, this is the first day on Twitter. He's definitely the first time he's ever looked at a tweet. There's no way he's going to be doing crying emojis. So I, you're... Because what were they? So, repeat what the tweets were again. So the first...

The first one comes out from Tiger. It says it's on at Phil Mickelson. They put this graphic out, which they fucked up the graphic, and Tiger's driver is just left-handed. It's a left-handed driver. And a lot of people are coming out and they're like, well, it's probably just a mirrored image. No, it isn't. That's a right-handed player's finish.

The Nike swoosh is facing the right direction. It would be flipped if it was mirrored. They just put in like, you can tell, too. They clearly like, it's like the driver was going to be too long. So it was going to be like in Tiger's ear and didn't work for the graphics. They, like, shortened it up a little bit. And then, like, wanted to showcase which kind of driver it was. So they just put the face like that.

Some idiot that doesn't know golf. And he's clearly the most. left-handed driver I've ever seen. And then he puts that up, and then Phil responds, I bet you think this is the easiest $9 million you will ever make with the laughing, crying, laughing emoji. Yep. And then Tiger goes.

Boom roasted. Yeah. Think you will earn some bragging rights, question mark, and then a trophy emoji, which. Which doesn't even make sense. What is that tweet? Wait, it's the most contradicting tweet I've ever seen my entire life. You're literally saying he's just going to win like bragging rights, but then you're saying he's going to win like a physical trophy.

Like, what are you talking about, Tiger? That's just not the right tweet. And it's the wrong tweet. It's just, it's a terrible tweet from Tiger's fucking team of executives up in the 66th floor. This is the team. Whoever tweeted this is the team that also allows Tiger to dress like a homeless person. So like there's a massive, there's a massive, you know, gap between the Thursday through Sunday Tiger and the Monday and through Wednesday Tiger.

This is the Wednesday team, obviously, because it happened. This, there's something going on with this team that's allowing Tiger to just like look bad. Wednesday team with just another huge miss. Big miss. Just all over the map, not even close. Phil with a let's do this, thumbs up. That was solid because Phil's dumb thumbs up thing that he always does. Didn't hit that.

Yeah, that made me laugh too. And then. Imagine they contacted Twitter and like created their own thumbs. With the fingers in front of the thumb, just a little thumb. Just peeking out, just slightly. That would have broke the internet. That's something that would have gotten this thing going. Just like a little bit stupider than a normal thumbs up.

Even if they had just, they could have made their own stupid Phil thumbs up gif and included that on this tweet, but they didn't. And then the one... This is my favorite part, by the way. What you're about to say is my favorite part. The one, the tweet, the Phil tweet at Tiger. Yes. This was the one where this made me think Phil actually may have been like looking over Twitter after he got off the pro-am today at the Northern Trust looked over Twitter and been like, my team fucking sucks. Give me the phone and actually tweeted it himself because this was a real tweet, especially because he didn't do the dot thing either.

It just was like at Tiger Woods. I see you have a left-handed driver well played. I hope it's a Calloway. It's like. I didn't even see that. Oh, yeah. It wasn't in the original thread. Phil just added Tiger and was like, nice driver, fucking pozo.

This was Rogue Phil, getting his phone back, like, what's the password, you morons, logs into his own account for the first time, doesn't know how to, like, send it to the whole internet. He only sends it to Tiger, and he chirps the graphic. He promotes Calloway, which I'm sure was, like, not in the deal where you can, like, promote your own equipment company, and just goes Rogue Phil and just Barry's Tiger, which was awesome. Incredible. Absolutely incredible. I did not see that. I didn't know what was coming. And that was perfectly, Phil just chirping. I mean, did Tiger and his team like keep, I mean, he just, he was just susceptible to just a huge punch to the face with a lefty driver, facing the lefty. You just can't make that mistake.

No. That's the biggest mistake of all time in any graphic, in graphic history. I mean, Phil put four words in his biography on Twitter, and one of them is the word lefty. And they put a lefty. and they put a left-handed fucking driver in Tiger's hand on this graphic. So, I mean, it's pretty outrageous. Tiger's team after that tweet from Phil two hours ago, the Wednesday team has to be doing an emergency meeting right now. I can't even imagine, like, what's on the drawing board, what the options are for Tiger to fireback with right now.

I just can't even imagine it. But we had some drama with that. We've got the FedEx Cup playoffs coming up. We still have some great, great quotes from Jim Furik. over the last couple days still doing his now we've got like tiger is making comments about how he talks to jim furek in the third person about himself as like a fucking possible candidate for the team and he said he said at his press conference yesterday that he confirmed that he himself is on their short list that like he tiger the assistant captain and the other captains have come up with

What is going on? It's crazy. This is a wild, wild game Jim Furek has created. This is, we don't know where this ends. I mean, we all know where it is, but we don't know how we get there. Like, we still don't know how far Jim can take this. It's getting, you know, it's, I like it. I said it on the last show.

I flipped on it. I love it now. It's so good. It's such bullshit. It is like Jim and Pam, like not getting together for years on the office, even though, like, You know they're supposed to be together on the office. You know what's going to happen eventually. But also, like, now Jim's dating this other girl.

What's he doing? Pam's single now. She broke off her marriage. How are they not going to? Are you fucking kidding me, Jim? Like, just do it. You fucking idiot. It's like, all that's going on towards the writer.

And it helps that we're in on the joke now because when it first started, it was kind of like, is he fucking not going to pick Tiger? Like, is that a thing that's going to happen? But then, as they talk about it in this, like, third, eighth person now that everybody's in on the joke. So now I feel like I want to be in on the joke. And I feel better. about it. I'm not as angry because he's obviously going to pick Tiger eventually. Yeah. True. True. But we just lost Frankie. We did?

No, nope. Sorry. No, here. Oh, you just went quiet. I did go quiet. You know, I was like, see, this phone game's like tough because I don't know when you're going to pick up like the next topic. And I also, because, you know, you're not making the eye contact that we usually make in the studio. Right. So that time I did know that I thought I got to hint that I was supposed to say something there. And I opted not. I opted not to and I heard the silence come from rigs and I said I had a oh shit moment where I was like just gonna blurt out of noise well it was weird because you didn't even like it was almost like you know usually there's a little staticy when you're on the phone or something but even

that like it's like you sucked all that out of the room and nothing was going up I I stopped walking around for that second I put the phone down on the dresser I mean I have headphones in and I just like stare at the phone like I just there was no movement in this room at all I just went completely black you froze yeah That's okay. So we do have the FedEx Cup playoffs. They're actually playing right down the street at Ridgewood. I don't, I've never been to the course.

One of the few courses I've actually never been to. I have never checked it out. And as people know, the PGA Tour doesn't love us. And I don't go to golf tournaments unless I'm credentialed, basically. Right. We've been spoiled. Right. Which is, I understand how that sounds.

But once you go credentialed inside the ropes, you can't just go as some schmuck to the golf tournament. Can you imagine having to look through just like pedestrians and not eat Snickers ice cream bars and not get the air conditioning and not get the buffet and like not just be right next to professional golfers as they play their matches? I mean, can you imagine doing that? Could you imagine standing in line at the parking lot to get on a bus and then the bus takes you like in a line of other buses and then drops you off at another huge line at the entrance to the fucking call through? it. No, I can't imagine, like, walking anywhere without a nice little thing hanging around my neck. I can't imagine, and I've only been, I've only been to what? But that's proof that, that's proof that it's pretty, it's good living and you can't go back.

Oh, you can't go back, especially Riggs. I mean, Riggs was there with Tiger. Riggs was there, a Tiger surge, it's over, he's hooked. It's over. I just can't do it. So a lot of people have been, many people have been, many people asking us, you know, when are you guys going to be out there? What's your plan, all that? Not currently planning on going out there. If that changes, again, we didn't really know we were going to be credentialed for the U.S. Open until a couple weeks beforehand. We didn't know we were going to be credentialed to the PGA championship until like a week beforehand.

True. Now it's the day of the tournament. Anything could change if it does. And our good friends at PGA Tour, which we do have a better relationship with now, decide to welcome us as credentialed. big jays that we are delivering content left and right and attracting a young audience our huge awesome young audience to the game of golf then we will enter that conversation and perhaps go to the tournament uh but currently not planning on being there fedex cup we've got dj j t brooks kevka julys jr jrhusen jrubbara jr jroman are in the top five anything can happen at this

freaking thing it's interesting because fxx cup playoffs right you think like the first year tiger wins it And you think, okay, it's just going to be clearly the best guy in the world wins it every year. And last year, like, J.T. won it. He clearly had the best year. In 2015, Spieth won it. He clearly had the best year. But then we've also had, like, fucking Billy Horsha won it. Brantznetter won it.

So it's like it does kind of feel like anybody that's made it can really win the whole thing. So my question to you guys, we're not, we're not, we don't break down all the numbers here. We're not Brando Schambly. Shout out to Brando Chambly. but how much FedEx Cup like concern or care do guys like us have right now the day before the first event

I don't know about concern but you do like you said when you want the best guy to win it and that's the true test but when the best guy doesn't win the horchels and the snedger's it almost doesn't feel it doesn't feel the way that it should

and we've talked about in the past how it does feel like they're throwing money at this thing and it feels less than genuine. So I just, I want the best guy to win, but I'm not sure that's going to shake out that way. You want what you got last year, which was like Spieth or JT at the very end, could win the whole thing. Yes. That like, I feel like that almost never happened. It's like that's once in a bloom moon.

I don't think it's going to happen. And you want to try to, and I'm not sure they've perfected it yet. That's how you want it. Do you want it to come down to guys like that? And they just haven't got it that way. Yeah, I mean, it's a risky run, like you were saying. this is a problem with golf that we're always going to come across is like guys that are just not big names

are just going to come and win and it's going to take away from like the you know the hype and stuff but you know we have tiger back in the mix and this I think I don't know if it's just because tigers him back in the but this year has just felt like guys who are big names have just been like in the running for so many of these tournaments on Sundays more than like I can remember in recent years I know he still have like Brooks Kepka winning fucking

a shit ton of stuff but yeah but he's a huge name now because he keeps winning you know yeah right but like like whenever you just hear the name brent snediker like if he could possibly just like be hoist and trophies like i just don't want to see anything about it i'm sure he's a great guy i'm sure you know he deserves everything but i just don't want to hear that name and like talk about that guy it's just like it's just a true it's true that couldn't be more true you know kudos to him is 59 i went back today that's on the windum by the way brand that's a great that's a great round of golf It's a great round. I mean, one of the best.

It's an incredible round. You're just, you're crying, you're boring. You're not like crying enough to be like interesting, like, like, Bubba is, and you're just, like, not boring enough to be, like, talked about. You're just, like, middle of the road. Like, he's a great guy, great round of golf again. I mean, played his dick off. I would probably, I would rather watch Phil shoot 73 than Brantznetter shoot 59.

Yes. Yeah. And I went through... I'd rather watch myself Skull-Fuck the bowl 150 yards over the fucking green every single day than watch Brent Settaker shoot a 50. And that's just... That's not something I can help.

I wish that I was super into that. And it's just like... That's just how you are. I'm so into the personality and the intrigue and making it interesting and all that. And I've said that's why I flipped on Bubba Watson's because I just love watching them play golf so much. I did go back today and I watched every single shot

of Brant Snettaker's 59 because I was... looking up, I was looking up Tiger Hype videos because he posted one of his own, posted his own, on his own Twitter account. Big move. So I was like, which is awesome. It wasn't even a great video, but it was still awesome. And then I was looking up Tiger Hype videos, and there's one that this stoolie made that's awesome. That's on YouTube.

And I watched the whole thing, and then I switched over to a different page, and it goes, like, the five-second countdown and then goes to another video. And the next video it played was every single shot from Brantznetter is 59. And so I watched this thing And I hadn't seen the highlights and all that But I wasn't watching it live And I didn't see And so I'm like

I'll watch this for a second And his first shot's like a duck hook into the trees I was like what the fuck's going on here And the second shot hits it into the rough Hits a terrible chip like 10 feet past the hole Misses the pot Then he doesn't make a birdie for like two or three holes And I'm like

What are they talking about? This isn't Branson Naderger's 509 You can't even make a 59 And 59 No and then he like You know he made three birdies in a row he gets the two under and then he's got like a chip for eagle and i'm like oh he must hold this and it like burns the edge and misses and i'm like what what and then next thing you know they like

add it up and he shot 59 and he like drains the birdie on eight i was like what the what a weird fuck i didn't know he started with it it was weird man it was a weird fucking 59 but the moral this story we started this whole thing with congratulations to brant's never yes oh 59 on winning the the windum awesome stuff very impressive closed it out with a 65 Winnie, you know, when he was under the heat, under the gun, all that, Bertie, the last hole. So, awesome stuff from Branceneker. I just would rather watch Phil Mickelson shoot like 73.

Anyways. Yeah, you know, I do think that the FedEx Cup, it has worked in the sense that it, these tournaments feel more important than the Wyndham, right? Like, this week feels more important than last week. And it's like, yeah, they threw money at the fucking. thing. Yeah, that's like these guys, they need to get to Eastlake for all sorts of reasons, and therefore they need to play the events prior. So that's why they're here. And it all seems a little bit artificial, superficial, whatever you would like to call it. But like, whatever they've done,

it has worked to a degree because this is more important than a lot of other weeks. It just is. Yeah, it's definitely. It's just got the name to it. You know, it's the playoffs. You just get ready for it. I mean, it's something that we've just, like, grown to learn and actually, like, accept and get ready for. And, I mean, guys are, like you said, are prepping for it. And, I mean, they've done a great job with it, I think. I don't know how much better. I mean, anytime you add a playoff format to, like, golf like this, which is, you know, it would be hard to sit around and think of how you're supposed to do something like this. But I love the whole rankings, the world rankings and the way they did it.

Like, I think they've done a great job. I get really hyped up for the FedEx. That's true. You throw playoffs in anything. That's how you brand something to make it more exciting. That's really it. PJ Tour, not overly great at branding. Look at their live under par thing.

But the playoffs was in that, they nailed that. We in America, we love playoffs. Right. We know playoffs, playoff baseball, playoff football. Like that shit's exciting. Like the word playoffs, they just, the entire college football system just changed just so they could include the word playoffs. Exactly.

Right. The entire final month of baseball, is all just like everyone's on the edge of their seat because the playoffs are coming in a month. Like it just gets you going. And people were watching the window and probably just thinking about the playoffs. It's true. It worked. Again, we all get it.

They threw money at it. It doesn't feel like it's artificial. When you said that, that's like, that's how I feel. It feels like they got us. You know what I mean? Like they got us. It's not. We don't like what it did.

I mean, obviously we're pretty far into it now. But once we get down, you get down, down the road, nobody's going to, you know, even be talking about there's going to be history built into it you hope right people forget about it we're just a little too close to it and people are like you know well do they really care about the 10 million and all that like it doesn't matter dude like they got us they hooked us into this fucking thing this FedEx cup playoff thing we're here we're doing it we're pumped tigers playing all the big names are playing it DJ said today that he didn't even consider skipping uh the event it's it's also the next three are all in new england which is sweet because they never come up to new

outside of the occasional major. But we've got Ridgewood, obviously, which is NYC area this week, Boston, then Philadelphia, and then there's a week break, and then there's Atlanta, and then immediately Ryder Cup. So a lot of important, a lot of fun things happening. It is very interesting, too, in that it's like we're barely over a week removed from the PGA championship from these guys battling it out over a major championship, over Tiger Woods. It's like making a charge at a major championship. And now it's just like, oh, we have like four just like regular events that we're going to play.

But like I said, they did it. It worked. It feels exciting. If Tiger can break through and win one of these things like that'll be. Then we're talking. Right. That'll be like win number 80 over the top. We are back.

We're winning tournaments building up to the Ryder Cup. So we're excited. I'm fucking excited. I do follow these events. I get more into them than I do a lot of the other events. So it worked. They got me, and it's that time of year. Frank, do you have anything else that you brought,

or should we send people to the Matt Janella interview? I'm currently wearing my Ryder Cup quarter dip. Le Golf National. I think that's how you're supposed to pronounce it. Said that. Beautifully. Yeah, that's what it is now. I don't even know if it's right, but that's what it is now.

We're going to take that. Because I think it's just like lay golf national. I think it's just like a little. play on words there if I'm being correct I mean I could be wrong whatever you did the first time is the only way you should ever say it yeah lay golf nashy now for sure so I'm wearing this thing it feels good

it's a polo brand it's like it's nice like it's thin I'm wearing it around Saratoga I got the nice crest people looking at me like look at that guy's fucking polo I'm like I'm feeling good so yeah I'm gearing up with the Ryder Cup that's really all I have to say about

you know me sending you guys off here and we're going to head to dinner and get ready for our second day here in Saratoga. That's awesome. Yeah, our new friend, PGA of America, they're making a strong push. They saw the tight relationship that we have with our very close personal friend, USGA, and they made a push. They sent us a bunch of gear.

Oh, wait, not only did they make a push. I mean, they changed my life. I am no longer a water bottle guy. Oh, that's right. I'm a huge, huge plastic water bottle guy. I always said, and this could be, you know, know, this actually could be pretty bad to say because I know a lot of people take this stuff seriously, but I genuinely believe that if I just, like, I always said, like, if I stop drinking water bottles, are they just going to stop making water bottles? Like, all those cases of water bottles are still going to be made. So I was like, I'm not saving the environment by not drinking, but then everyone's like, well, if you stop and then other people stop and they'll stop making the water bottles, it's a whole fucking thing. But, you know, I was way too lazy to get one of those, like, cool, like, no free ads, but one of those nice, you know, canisters and those things that keep your, you know, your drink cold. Damn, did the fucking PGA of America change my life by sending me one?

I mean, it's just a piece of metal that almost feels like it has a refrigerator in it. But when you open it up, there's nothing in it. But it keeps your water just cold for like eight days. It is astounding how well this technology works. When we went to the PGA, we drove to the course with my brother. And my brother has one of these metal technology containers. And he had an ice water that he put in the game. car and we went to the tournament all day.

Everybody talked about how hot it was and humid it was in St. Louis. When we came back, okay, we got there at like 9 in the morning on Saturday. And we came back at like 8.15 p.m. His water was cold to the touch. It was shocking. There was no ice. The ice had melted, but the water was legitimately cold to the touch. It was amazing.

It's just an empty container. And now I'm, like, walking around like I'm talking about on this podcast. I'm walking around looking at people drinking water bottles. Like, you know, if you just substitute, you know, one of these cool technological containers, you know, you can really save. I mean, I mean, also, you're walking up to the water jug and you get to talk. I'm talking to Marina. I'm talking to people that work over by the water jug. And, like, I'm saying, like, how are you doing today?

It's just, you get in the mix. It's changed my life. And, you know, to wrap this all together, it's got. it's got their logo on it, which is just a great logo. Well, I will say this, and I got one of these, too. And Frankie's serious about this because I, the other day, I went and grabbed a water bottle. And I won't say that Frankie scolded me or yelled at me, but he basically did. He was like, what are you doing?

Why didn't you use your PGA of America thing? I was like, I don't know. I just always grab water bottles. And he, like, made me go fill up my water thing. Oh, yeah. PGA. It's a lifestyle change, maybe. I mean, the PGA, they know what they knew what they were doing, sending me this shit,

because they knew I'd wear it in Saratoga. They knew I'd change my lifestyle with water bottles. I mean, what's next they're going to send me? What is next? Tushay to the PGA. They also have helped us out with the Rider Cup. It's very, very much looking like we're going to be credentialed to some degree for the Rider Cup, thanks to our friend PGA.

So they are doing good things. They got us good gear. We very much appreciate that. Frankie, have yourself a good night in your PGA quarter zip, and we'll talk to you soon, pal. All right. O'Bois. Do you like that? You are.

Leg off national now. Yeah, leg off national now. Okay, adios. Bye, Frankie. Next up, we have Matt Janella. This was a fantastic chat about anything you could possibly imagine. Buddy's trips, golf courses, golf resorts. Shout to our guy Jeremy Eisenberg, who set this up, who is, he represents Paige Sparantic.

He represents Hank Haney. He represents our guy Matt Janella, which it's nice because we have all these relationships. with a lot of these different people now. And he, anyway, he's a huge fan of the show. He's helped us out. And he was like, hey, why don't you guys give me a little bit of love for helping you out? Much appreciated. Next up, Matt Janone.

Let's do this. It may sound weird, but hanging upside down is a great way to decompress the back and get rid of back pain. Does that sound weird to you? Hanging upside down? It does sound weird to me, but all I know is that I've had back pain in the past, and there's nothing worse. I said it the last time, but there's nothing worse than back pain. and anything that can help that in any way, shape, or form, I am all for.

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but I have kept my inversion table just because it helps my back so good. Like, you know, I don't even keep like a couple pairs of shorts. Right. Because if they're not, you know, if they're not in the very short list of my rotation, I don't have enough room for them. You just don't have the space for it. I keep the teeter because it is incredibly important for my back. The inversion therapy.

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Get the teeter inversion table plus a free vibration cushion, free shipping, free returns, and a 60-day money back guarantee at teeter.com slash 4. that's T-E-E-T-E-R dot com slash four. Teter.com slash four. All right, we are now joined by Mr. Matt Janella of Golf Channel. I'm sure you all know him. He, well, you probably know him from interviewing Trent and myself. Right.

It's probably the number one thing that you would know him from. But he, of course, is on Golf Channel all the time talking about golf destinations, golf trips and whatnot. I believe you've been there since 2013. So Matt Janella first time on the show. Thanks for joining us, my friend. We're excited to have you on. Great to be on, boys. You know, it's like a home and home.

I appreciate the opportunity. It took us. We owe you an apology. It took us too long to hold up our end to the home and home. That's on us. I was so nervous the first time I was talking to Matt Janelle that it's nice to have him on our own turf where I'm not sweating and like my palms. You were so nervous that you looked at the ground the whole time, trip. I did.

They told me not to. look at the monitor that was right below the camera and I tell you what Matt I stared directly at that monitor the entire time they should have never even mentioned the monitor right I would that was their fault I would not have looked at it at all but they were like you tell me I'm like a small child you tell me not to do something I'm just

going to continue to do that they told me just stare at that red dot I just stare at that freaking thing for 30 minutes straight there's nothing like live TV I'm telling you right now I've learned the hard way many many many times well we appreciate you having on you're glad to return the favor a little bit so I

you know, I introduced you a little bit, but in your own words, and Matt Janella's own words, how do you describe to people your own job? Well, you know, I say this a lot, but I do mean it. I've never worked a day in my life, and that was always the goal. That's all of our goals, right? And you guys probably feel the same, but in college it was like, what, you know, what the hell am I going to do? And I knew I, you know, I wanted, I was in, I thought radio was going to be the play-by-play

announcer for the San Diego Padres. I was sure of it and then kind of stumbled into all of what I've done. I started as a photo editor at Sports Illustrated. My first week as a golf photo editor of Sports Illustrated was Tiger's first week as a pro, Milwaukee Open 1996. So I caught the wave of interest in the game of golf. And that led to, you know, I went back to journalism school when I was 29 at SI and Columbia and got a degree there.

And that got me to Golf Digest, where I was a drill. director of photography, and then they let me start writing at Golf Digest, and I was doing lifestyle stuff, starting in 2006, writing travel stories for Digest, and then Golf Channel called, right as it felt like, you know, print, if print isn't dead, it feels like it's been dying for quite some time now, and I definitely felt that, you know, as Golf World and Golf Digest, we're continued to try to reinvent themselves, and I got, I got a rescue from Golf Channel, and you know but I had to try to make that conversion over to TV and essentially I'm doing what I did then for golf digest which is go around and and try to help people navigate the vast options we have in terms of where to stay and play the game of golf and that's it sounds silly but and in reality it kind of is but it's it's it's been a blast you know I'll continue doing it until someone tells me I can't do it anymore It's one of those things where it sounds like a crazy job, but it is a job that is necessary and somebody's got to do it.

It might as well be you. That's what that's why I did. Eventually I stopped saying, why me? And I started saying, why not? Right. You know, let's do this. Let's do it as best I can. And I did get enough feedback from time to time from people saying, hey, thanks a lot.

I went there and had a great time. Or, wow, that really helped us. And, oh, wow, I've never heard of that. And I want to go there. And then they go and they say, man, we had a great time. And that means a lot to me. It's true. And we found that out, you know, we kind of, we jumped into the golf podcast game about a year and a half ago.

And we started covering the tour and things that happen with our buddies. And golf is so unique in that, you know, if you're a huge football fan or you're a huge basketball fan, you don't necessarily play basketball or football. If you're a huge golf guy or golf gal, you play golf, almost all of them play golf. And it's a huge part of it. and we got some of the most reaction we've ever gotten out of our podcasts are when we talk about golf destination. So we actually, we have to thank you, Mad Genella, as the original, the original boondoggle boy. Really paved the way for us.

We take a lot of heat around here for years now about boondoggle this, boondoggle that. You're the OG. That's it. I wear that label with honor. I can't thank you enough. I'm, you know, and it's always felt that way, honestly. But, you know, and, and I didn't get married until two years ago. I've been single, essentially, my whole adult life.

And being able to kind of just go, you know, for the last 12 years, over 200 days on the road for the last 12 years, spot to spot, course to course, you know, city to city, state to state, country to country. It's been a blur. And it's been great to play the courses. but I tell everybody upon further review, it's the people I get to meet, the conversations I get to have, the cultures I get to sort of parachute into. And it is this common denominator to so many different walks of life. Being able to catch up with guys like Larry Fitzgerald and Jeremy Roanick and Ryan Sandberg and Jeff Ogilvie, and on and on and on.

And every time they're so excited to talk about golf, where do we play next? where should I go? What's your favorite course? What, you know, what's that course like? Why should I go there? Why shouldn't I go there? It's been a blast. And it is incredibly important.

And I think everybody knows that, you know, what you're doing and what we try to do when it does come to golf travel stuff is incredibly important to a lot of people because you don't, in anything that you do, you need one person that you trust to tell you like this is how to do it. This is where to go. This is where not to go and all of that. you just need that one person that you trust telling you and helping you out because otherwise you have absolutely no clue you don't even know where to start most of the time and that and you know when i was at golf digest i did these these stories about buddy strips we realized when i when i when i started doing the travel for golf digest was like oh what are we going to do and we kind of we found this untapped well of of activity happening in the world golf this subculture of golf that is the buddies trip and i started chronicling in a page of the magazine every month. So I did 12 a year for six years.

And it was like I would tap into these alpha planners, these guys who may not plan anything in their life any, any time of the year, except for these four days a year where they're on the hook and they've got their favorite three guys or seven buddies or, you know, 11 buddy, whatever the number is. And usually it starts small and then grows over the years.

And they would comment to me and say, okay, where do we go next? And we know those four days are recession-proof. It doesn't matter where the world and the economics are right now. Those four days are sacred. We will always save the money and time for those four days to get away from the family or life or whatever the weight of the world that we have for the other 361 days a year. And they need to have a good time. It needs to fit their group. It needs to be, you know, when people leave, they need to be talking about not about the money they do spent. It needs to be talking about the great times they had with that group of guys that they cherish and they haven't been able to get together with since college days

or high school days or whatever have you. And that meant I took it seriously. I wanted to make sure that that that group of guys were going to get a place that fit them in their needs and their budget and their, you know, their degree of their level of golf or what have you. If they wanted night life, you can't send them to abandon. If they want, you know, if they, if they, if they wanted 36 holes and a variety of golf courses and they were all decent golfers, then Bandon was in play. If they were going with their wives, you know, abandon is not in place. Sea Island might be a good place or, you know, what have you.

But that's, that's what I started realizing is, is, is those, this did matter to these people that were planning this trip. And that, that's, to this day, I try to always think about what not, maybe, maybe, what's not right for me, but what's right for this person who's planning this trip? So I know you mentioned you just got back from three weeks over in Ireland. We are going to get into some overseas stuff a little bit later. I want to start first with a little bit closer to home with Mike Kaiser. Bandon.

So Bandon for a while now has been on pretty much everybody's radar who gets into golf trips at all. Bannon has an incredibly special place in your heart and in even your. your family and all of that. So I want to let you start talk a little bit about because I, I would say about two years ago, I didn't even know Mike Kaiser existed. And then once I started getting into, okay,

I want to do more golf trips and I learn more about it, I started to understand how big of a legend Mike Kaiser is essentially. So why don't you start, Matt, with telling people a little bit about Mike Kaiser and then eventually abandoned dunes and what it means to you. Well, yeah. So, you know, I grew up in Northern California. and again got into the golf industry, mid-90s.

And, you know, I started hearing about Bandon Dunes, Southwest Coast of Oregon, one course, one hotel, you know, late 90s, 1999 Bandon Dunes, David McLeigh Kid. It's crazy to think about it. 2001, Tom Doak, you know, opens Pacific Dunes. And now it's, as Mike Kaiser says, one course is a curiosity, two courses makes a destination. So now Bandon becomes this place where you can go and have two courses and have a great experience, pure golf, lynx golf, you know, this is bringing Irish and Scottish golf kind of experience to the United States. And the more I started looking into the more, you know, the more I started going, the more you realize he was bucking the trend. So if you go back in the late 90s and early 2000s, when everybody else was chasing a hard golf course, you know,

know, designers like Nicholas and Fazio and the Jones brothers and trying to chase the idea of hosting a U.S. Open or a PGA tour event, Mike Kaiser said that that's for the 0.2% of golfers out there. I'm going to, I'm going to build places for the other, other, the rest of the pie chart of golfers, the avid amateur. I don't want to host big time events. I want to host people who when they come, they want to come back. They've had a great experience. And that, as crazy as that sounds, because when you say it out loud, you're like, of course that makes sense. Right. As crazy it sounds, that's not where the industry was.

And he was looking, he said if 10,000 people go to Royal Dornick in Scotland from America, every year 10,000 people go to a remote part of Scotland to play, to play good golf, good lynx golf. Maybe I can get that kind of, those kind of numbers to the southwest coast of Oregon. And he found out not only would he get 10,000. He was getting 40,000, 60,000. So more demand for more supply. So in 2005, he opens up band and trails, an inland course, now by Corp. Crenshaw. So he's got three different architects, three different experiences on three different courses.

And then he built 2010 old McDonald, an homage to CB McDonald. He loves Chicago Golf Club, National Golf Links of America. He loved that kind of wide open strategic sort of options. golf. Now he's got four courses. He adds a short course, part three course in 2012, knowing his clientele, again, listening to his clientele, knowing that they can't keep playing 36 a day for four days, and he wants that kind of stay and play kind of options for people, builds a short course. Then he opens a putting course in 2014, which is one of some of the best value in all of golf. It's free. You're out there. You're getting drink service. You're hooping and hollering. You're making

putts from all over the place. Guys go. crazy. And sure enough, in 15 years, he builds the number one pure golf destination in America, passing Piners, Sea Island, and Pebble Beach, and places that we've known for forever, right? And how did he do it? Why did he do it? But with his focus on the avid amateur. And it's just the spiritual experiences. Everybody who goes there, you know, very rarely leaves there and goes, ah, that was terrible. You know, you leave there and going, I can't wait to go back. And he trickled that over over that 15-year. 20-year stretch. And in covering that, you know, I end up naming my son, who's 15 months old now,

abandoned. Because, you know, that's how, that's how much all of that, you know, I've had buddies trips going there for years now, probably 10 years now. I bring all my favorite friends there. It's a place where we can just hunker down. It's about the hang. You know, that's one thing that Kaiser always has figured out more so than anybody else is the fire pits, the four-bedroom cottages, the loungy type areas off the back porch is overlooking the golf or around the putting green. So you get the hang, you get the spiritual sense of being along that dramatic, coastline, sand-based golf, you get the mix of great architects. And you get, and you don't have to, you don't have to rent a car. Once you're there, you don't, no one's driving around. You're,

you're on property. And you're with like-minded people. So anybody who makes that trek, you're surrounded by people and it almost feels like you're all members of an exclusive experience. So other than that, it's, you know, it's shitty. And a good menu and pretty affordable once you get there. They're not gouging you on the price. So I named my son Bandon because I

thought, oh, it's, you know, after Bandon Dunes. And my wife had done some digging and figured out that the name means friend of the people and optimistic and that actually Bandon, Oregon was settled by someone from Bandon, Ireland. Little town in Cork, Ireland, Southwest Coast.

of Ireland, really south of Ireland. And I've taken my wife and baby to Bandon Dunes in December. And then in this last trip to Ireland, I had my baby and my wife with me, we took a little sidebar trip to Bandon Golf Club and got a book on the history of

Bandon Golf Club. Find out that there's a castle overlooking the Fifth Fairway that where Lord Bandon 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 all resided. And that, you know, that the gorse Bush of some guy named Bennett was brought over from Ireland to the southwest coast of Oregon. It just goes on and on. So connecting the spiritual dots for sort of the development of band in Oregon, the naming of my son, going to Bandan Ireland. You know, I'm busy writing a story about all this right now just because, you know, and that's golf.

To me, that's golf. It's those layers of spirituality and connective tissue and all that stuff that. that we have with good friends. I say it's not always where you are. It's about who you're with. And sometimes it's both. And that's the places like Bandon, whether it's Oregon or Ireland or what have you. That's really special.

I thought Madginello was going to make me cry. I know. That was very powerful. That was awesome. That was a fantastic story. That's good because we could never deliver anything like that. So that's nice to have Matt Janelle on that can deliver something. Wow.

So I want to ask you, too, about Bandon. And so I did Bandon for the first time in May of this year, and I went with my brother and two of my best friends. And the first thing I had gone to Scotland for the first time over Labor Day last year. And the first thing that I was surprised about, stunned about was that when I arrived on property, and we played the Bandon Dune's course. And, you know, you got about three or four holes in. And I looked around at the gorse bushes.

and the way the ball was reacting on the sand-based turf and all that. And I said, this is Scotland. This is literally Scotland. This is exactly what it looks like. This is exactly how it plays. Do you think Bandon is as close or true links as you can get outside of, you know, the UK? Absolutely. And, you know, I was just talking to Mike Kaiser last week.

So now, yes, to answer your question definitively, yes. It is true links golf. And it's very much the experience you have in Scotland, Ireland. and on some of those great, you know, links courses that that we hear about so much and see from time to time during the middle of summer during the Scottish and the Irish and the Open Championships. I was talking to Mike Kaiser. He was now building Sand Valley in the middle Wisconsin on a sand-based, you know, a piece of land there. He built Cabot Lynx and Cabot Cliffs in Nova Scotia, and he's got Barnboogel down in, you know, Tasmania. And I said, oh, Mike, you know, does it ever baffle you that no one else is doing what you did and what you've done to the point where you're actually end up, you're now essentially competing against yourself?

Like, why is, after all that we've just talked about and all that we've just said, right, no one else is going out to try to find sand-based land along coastlines where, and using minimalist architects. building true links experiences in America. What is it that I'm missing? Why is Mike Kaiser the only one going out and given all this success? Why are people not trying to copy him? It's crazy to me. And he goes, it baffles him too. And he says, you know, some people think, why are you building San Bay?

Why are you dealing Cabot? Why are you trying to compete against yourself? And he goes, well, because competition breeds excellence. And if I'm not going to get it elsewhere, I might as well get it internally. I like that a lot. So you've recently posted your ideal itinerary for a abandoned trip. You took a little bit of heat I saw for one of the days saying you take the afternoon off. Why don't you describe to people?

Because, again, a lot of people out there, you know, they're trying to book a trip. They've heard about band and they want to do band. And I get a million messages. I'm sure you do too. You know, how much time do people need? How many days should they book? How much is, you know, dedicated to travel? what's the ideal itinerary for abandoned trip?

Well, you know, anybody who gave me heat off for building sort of, we have a Friday morning sleep-in session now, right? You know, people can do whatever they want. You can sleep in or you can get work done or you, you know, go to the spa or we'll do whatever you want, go to the range and try to fix your game. And anybody who gave me heat off of taking the Friday morning off after getting in on Wednesday and playing Wednesday evening and 36 on Thursday, definitely playing 18. on Friday afternoon with the putting course in the evening and then 36 on Saturday is in their

20s, right? Anybody getting shit for that is in the 20s. And anybody who sort of half one to give me shit about that is probably in their early to mid-30s. But anybody in their 40s is like, man, that's genius. That's exactly what I'm going to do. And anybody in their 50s is like, even my itineries like, man, that's too much. That's a lot.

Because that's the way it works, right? in my 20s, I would have said I'm an idiot to take, you know, a morning off of golf at Bandon. That's crazy. But if you get in on Wednesday and an opening ceremony and all of us go hard, right, we still party as hard as we did when we're 20s, if not more, because we, because we're so, such sacred time together, you know, to the bunker bar and dice and, you know, in the cottage and by the fire pits, before you know it, it's 3 a.m. And then you're playing 36 on Thursday.

And then Friday morning you get to sleep in. And then Friday afternoon you play abandoned trails. And then Friday evening you go to the putting course. We have our own separate putting tournament. So I give away three trophies on my buddy's trip. The short course trophy, the overall four-round competitive trophy, and then the putting course trophy. And two-man teams, 12, two-man teams.

And then 36 on Saturday. And this allows us to party harder on Wednesday, party harder on Thursday. So we know we have a little buffer on Friday morning. And then we can party hard on Friday and party hard on Saturday. and party hard on Saturday before we leave on Sunday. So the premium becomes more about the social hang than, oh, we have to play 36 a day. Hey, if that's for you, go for it. I'm telling you what my ideal 10 are is.

And I'm 47 right now. And quite frankly, 36 a day just doesn't work for me. I just, you know, 36. Two out of the four days, yes. Four out of the four days? No, can't go ahead. I think you're right. I think it makes a lot of sense.

Even for the last few years, you know, I always do a couple of ski trips every winter. And I always, if I go for four days, I book one of those days, I just take off. And I do like a spa or I do something because otherwise I just stink too. The rest of the days is the same deal with golf. I get all these tired swings. I can't move around. I'm trying to drink. I'm like sick of drinking, but I love drinking, but I'm trying to play golf and I can't play golf.

It's just a battle. It's like, where the priority. And I'll guarantee you of the, you know, the 24 guys on my trip, if you asked, you know, it's a silent vote. Some of them might not admit that that's their favorite part of the trip, that Friday's sleeping. But, you know, but if you had them silently polled them, it's 24 and O that that Friday morning is the critical component to our hold. It's like half time. You go into the, you go into the locker room, you reset yourself, you get a little pump up with your team, you know, you call in some coaches and you get back out on the field to finish off the trip.

I only started doing that probably three years ago, and it was time. These days, you can get practically everything on demand, like our podcast. Listen, whenever you want, when it's convenient for you. Did you know that you can even get postage on demand, Mr. Trent? I did not know that. Well, guess what? All you need is stamps.com. I said recently that I send things to my friends and to my family because I have so much stuff in my apartment

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You enter 4Play and we're going to help you out. I think it's smart too to do it in the morning because I've tried to do a lot of times where we book an afternoon off and we always end up playing every time. Yeah. And a couple little side notes for Bandon and I tell everybody this. play Pacific Dunes in the morning before the winds kick up because that can be a tough experience.

Definitely played Old McDonald in the morning before the winds kick up. And if you are going to play Old McDonald in the afternoon, which we actually do, make it a fun round. So we play Old McDonald as we mix up teams and we make it four-man scrambles or alternate shot,

whatever it is that year. So because it can get crazy windy out there, especially in the summer. If you want to play an afternoon round, play band and trails, it's best protected by the trees or play band and dunes, which is the most fun course, regardless of the conditions, and you get the sunset on the coastline playing 15 green, 16, 17T. That can be super spiritual.

So try to play band and dunes late in the afternoon and catch that sunset and stand out there on that 16th green or 17th T and looked at that 180-degree view of that coastline. And if that doesn't hit you in the spiritual, you know, spiritual, you know, sort of pocket of your existence, then you're probably dead anyway. How do you compare, you know, an older, more established type traditional golf resort, like a Pinerhurst or something like that, to the newer, more modern bandins cabots that we've kind of been talking about? Well, I think those old traditional ones are becoming modernized or they're becoming obsolete. You know, I think Pinerst, if you look at what's going on there in the last five years of Piner's,

or say 10 years. They rolled it back to number, they rolled back number two, which was a, what brilliant move, bringing it back to sort of what golf should look like in the sandhills of North Carolina. And then, and then now they've just done that to number four. They added a short course. So they took 10 acres, had Gilhans come in there and built a short course where they got music going. They got, you know, if you haven't played the cradle at Piner's, you know, then you got it, you got to run, don't walk.

It's an awesome experience. everybody has a blast. They're playing eight sums. You got a little pine cone bar out there that, you know, everybody's tapping into. So I think that, I think that, you know, these destinations like the Greenbriars is under a lot of pressure to kind of modernize. Because if not, we have too many other options. Sand Valley, you got Kohler, Wisconsin, four Pete Dygolf course that kind of kick you in the gut on almost every swing. now competing against the San Valleys.

The San Valleys is going to build more of that Mike Kaiser kind of fun directed at the avid amateur type golf. And that puts pressure on the Kohlers to say, huh, what should we do here? If we're going to add another course, should it be a fun short course, it should be another P. Diatism, which they have ready to go, you know, if they get all the permitting done. And I, you know, Reynolds Lake of Coney, they got six golf courses, all big 18-hole championship courses. They're looking at the idea of putting in a short course. I think modernizing this option for guys like us and making sure that when we get there, you know, yeah, we got plenty of golf, but it should be fun golf. And if it's not fun golf, we're not inclined to go back.

Remember, this is a game. We pay to play this game. Like, if they raised the rims to 12 feet and made the hoop smaller, would we play basketball? No. You know, like, no, we wouldn't. And that's sort of what golf did in the late 90s and early 20s. 2000. It raised rims. It's like that that was a horrible call. It is very true. There are a handful resorts that I've been to that are sort of that like you were talking about that 90s, 80s, 80s era,

the type of resorts they were building where it was, you know, there need to be hazards everywhere. It needs to be difficult. It needs to be tough. If they do have a handful of courses, they're all these 18 whole championship courses. And I've been to a handful of those of my buddies. And we've never been back. And we've never thought about going back. And it wasn't like we had a bad time. but it is one of those where you kind of look at it. And when you leave, you're like, eh, all right, we're probably never going to do that again. Whereas when I left Bandon and I left Cabot,

it was like, we've already booked our trip back. We cannot wait to go back. And isn't it, you know, if you're leaving and all you want to do is go back, then mission accomplished, that destination, you know, that situation delivered for you. If you're leaving and all you're talking about is how much you spent, how many balls you lost, you know, if you're thinking about playing the game of tennis instead of golf,

that that sucks that's not that's not good for the game of golf and there you know i you know keewa is a bucket list experience to go play the ocean course and walk with caddies and play where the pros play and they've had rider cups awesome but the question is do you want to go back do you want to go back and subject yourself to that kind of to that kind of you know humbling you know ego gut you know gut kicking experience on a regular basis that's a question you for you. For me, I know the answer. It's no. So you're, you know, this is a great little segue because we're getting into kind of comparison, comparing different types of courses. Comparising. Comparasing, not a word. It's not a word, but I kind of like it. I'm all in for comparison.

Okay. I like that. Do you find it hard, given your job to be critical of resorts and destinations and courses, you know, when they, for the most part, I'm sure, invite you host you, make sure that you have the best experience you can there? well it's you know i've had to face that dilemma you know for for 12 years in my professional life and and you know early on i learned very quickly that people don't want to know where not to play they want to know where to play so i've always felt my job is to shine the light on the people the places the things that do it right and kind of ignore the places that do it wrong and and and in doing so that in itself uh given the plan

I've had is my job. So if people are asking me where to play, where to stay, where to go, you know, hey, again, going back to what are their needs, what are their needs for their group and their budget, you know, their ability to play golf, you know, people always say, all you do is talk about banning, talk about ban. I go, okay, well, have you been? You know, if you go and it's not for you, then I apologize. But go first and then tell me whether or not that that's a great experience. and tell me whether or not that they're doing it right. You know, I, I, I, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, I'm talking about, I do try to, to spread the love because, let's be honest, this is a buyer's market for us right now. We do have a ton of great options in the world of golf.

So I don't have problem being critical if, if asked very directly, you know, this one or that one, you know, would you go there, not go there? I can do that in one-on-one conversations or direct messaging or people that want to know. But when I go and try to tell stories about people, places, and things, I focus on the positive. What do they do right? You know, at Kiwa, they have one of the greatest 19th holes in all of golf, sitting there, great little bar scene, overlooking the 18th green. You know, they do that experience great. Would I want to play that golf course over and over and over again?

No, I wouldn't. I was critical of Pinehurst and, you know, all their golf options. And they made changes. They rolled it back. They've added a short course. I think that's the band in influence, too. I think bandon is putting a lot of pressure on a lot of these places that have too much hard golf to say, hey, take a look in the mirror. You know, is it my fault that you have a bunch of hard golf or is it your fault that you have a bunch of golf?

You can make changes, you know? Until then, I'll keep focusing on the places to do it right. What do you think the best par three course or short course, you know, is at any of these resorts? in the world. Well, Bandon Preserve, the 13-hole core Crenshaw at Bandon, you know, I mean, you can't, you can't beat that, right? I mean, that's just a, that's a special experience. I think that what the Piner's done at the cradle is, is a great experience. I actually think tree tops in Michigan, you know, I don't love all of the golf there, the 18-hole golf, but if you go play three tops, the little par three course there, it's a great experience. By the way,

cross the street from Pebble Beach, the little Peter Hay, a little par three course where kids play for free and guys can go, I think that's underutilized. I think a lot of people don't realize to go out there and have a good experience is a good thing. Sand Valley built the sandbox, another core crunch of design, ton of fun. And you can't really screw up a par three course because, you know, at the end of the day, if you don't like the hole, you're going to hit a shot,

you're going to hit a couple of puts, and you're going to move on. It's not going to beat you down. you're not going to lose balls. You're not going to make a seven or an eight. You know, it's kind of a, there's a beginning and a middle and an end to every little hole and then you move on. So I love this trend. I love these destinations, accenting, you know, giving an accent to their portfolio by saying,

hey, you know, if 36 a day isn't working for you, go play 18 and play the short course. Everybody loves a short course. It is. It's almost like a, like they're putting up like the bat symbol to fun groups. when they implement, you know, a short course or a part three course. To me, when I see that on the resort, I go to the website and I say, okay, like, that's a spot where they get it. And me and the boys are going to have fun there. Like, there's no way we don't have fun.

150 yards in, like, you know what I've never heard is someone walking off a short course and saying, you know what? That sucked. I had too much fun. I had too many birdie putts. I had too many options at hole in ones. You know, I've never heard that. And until then, let's just keep building them. Until someone goes, you know what?

Golf is, that golf was too easy. You know, F that, I'm moving on. I'm going to a tougher 18-old championship experience. It doesn't happen. Every time you play a short course, whoever you're with, you're going to have a ton of fun. You're going to have a bunch of chances at aces, birdies, pars. What a concept. Which is why it's so fun for kids.

And people who don't play the game on a regular basis. The reason why we got so much top golf is because, we had so much hard golf. Top golf lets you come as you are. You're going to have a ton of fun. Everybody's going to get the ball of airborne. You're going to make scores. You're going to drink, be happy. You're not going to be made a fool of. It's not going to be grueling or too hot, too long. Top golf exists because we don't have enough fun golf in America. How do you compare Band and Cabot? Because I did both of those as well this year, and that's the number one question I get after I got back. from Cabot was, you know, which one's better? How do you compare the two? Two very different

experiences. When you're abandoned, you're not leaving property. You're not going into town. You're not really experiencing whatever the culture is that surrounds Band and Dunes. Banded Dunes is its own culture. And it's got four big courses and the short courses and all that stuff. At Cabot, you've got two amazing, great, amazing golf experiences. But you also have access to like the whiskey distillery down the road. You can drive up to, you know, that beautiful drive up to Highlands, Links, play a Stanley Thompson golf course.

You can go to the, what is it, the red, the red shoe pub where you can get live music and experience a little bit of, experience a little of culture. Do you know what I'm saying? Like Cabot to me is much more one with kind of the whole Nova Scotian experience

that, that I didn't even know, existed until I went to Cabot. But I just find it to be a little sleepier, but a little more culturally kind of rich at Cabot, whereas Banden is, you know, it's pure golf, it's multiple courses, it's the short course, it's much more of a golfy experience. Cabot's more of a cultural experience. Yeah, I think that's pretty right. I think we had about the exact same experience. We were, we were stunned at how much of our trip was revolved around our nighttime activities versus, you know, abandon, you're pretty much, you know, maybe you take a deep at the bunker bar or something like that,

but you're pretty much asleep and you're back up for 36. Yeah. So we've covered, you know, North American, the resorts around here, I think, pretty well. Let's jump overseas. You mentioned that you just got back from three weeks over in Ireland. Talk about what you were doing there, and we'll talk about some Irish golf a little bit. Well, I covered not only the Republic of Ireland, but I did get to Northern Ireland and got to see. Port Rush and I've spent a lot of time over there.

People ask me compare Ireland versus Scotland. Where should I go? Scotland or Ireland? I always say, look, first and foremost, you've got to do St. Andrews. Check that box. If you're ever going to get over, you know, across the pond, so they say, go to St. Andrews, do that. But after that, go to Ireland, southwest coast, northern Ireland, anywhere around Dublin. Because I love Scotland for St. Andrews, but I could live in Ireland. You know, again, going back to sort of cultural experiences, the Irish, you know, Ireland is full of the Irish, and they're fun to be around. They're proud of their culture and the crack, they call it.

And that's the kind of, you know, country of four million people. It's wide open and spread out. They're fun to be around. They don't take themselves too seriously. It's, you know, they understand that the Guinness is better. Everything's better. In Scotland, you know, the problem with Scotland is full of Scots. You know what I mean?

They're kind of dower and can be grumpy and like, all right, come on over and get out. And, you know, and I have seen that change over the last 10 or 20 years. I think they did realize that they needed to kind of embrace this North American golfer and the buddy trip takeer on a kind of a more regular basis or they were going to lose out to Ireland on a regular basis because Ireland is so much more fun. I think places like La Hinch, Trilly, Waterville is one of my favorite courses in the world. I think going up, the old head is kind of like, you know, it's golden tea golf, but it's a cool experience. You go up to Port Rush, Port Stewart, Royal County Down, Ard Glass up in Northern Ireland.

That's a whole other trip in itself and a fantastic experience. So all these different little hubs, whereas Bandon, it's really isolated and consolidated into one little area. They've got all these little hubs in Ireland that, you know, Dublin, Southwest, northern. The Northwest is now Valley Lifting and that's getting some traction. And then Scotland you have obviously St. Andrews, which is a priority. And then you go over to Cruden Bay and then up to Dornick and what's going to be happening there, Corcoranche, building another course next to Dornick, which is going to be a great experience, cool links. So these hubs of great golf in both Scotland and Ireland are more options for us.

Again, an embarrassment of riches in terms of our choices. So if somebody, if they're like, okay, Matt Janella convinced me, we're going to go to Ireland. We're doing an eight or 12 guy buddies trip. Where do they start? How do they start planning? Do they need an operator to help them out? Can they do it themselves?

Where do they start? You can't. It's gotten a lot easier to do it yourself now because the information is out there. And we have, you know, we have the World Wide Web. But I do say if I'm an alpha planner, especially with a group of like 12 guys, because I say if you're going to go to Scotland, Ireland, move around and drive a lot, it's a lot easier to do with four guys than it is to do with 12 guys or 24 guys. If you are going to go to 12 guys, a highly suggest an operator,

they're going to help you get those T-Times that are back to back to back. They're going to help you get around from place to place in a big bus. And you see them, the buses are in the parking lots all over Ireland and Scotland. Scotland, Perry golf, car golf, travel, Haversham and Baker are a couple of the good places that are going to help you navigate. Again, the places to stay. They're going to help you get those tea times. You might pay a little bit of a premium, but it's going to pay off, especially on your first trip. And then once you're over there and you get a lay of the land and then you think about going back a second time or a third time, it's a lot easier to say, okay, okay, now I know.

what to do. But you know, you go over there in Ireland and you try to drive those roads on the wrong side of the car and the wrong side of the road. That's no joke. You're telling me, Val. And you've got a couple of pints. No, that's not going to end well. Oh, no. It's, it's, it was the whole story. It was a horrified harrowing tale when you got back. I legitimately, Matt, I, so I I started out thinking I could do it. This is I went to St. Andrews. It's the only overseas golf I've ever played. I did San Andrews by myself over Labor Day weekend last year. I booked it like a month before and I just went. I'd watch so much links cough.

I was like, screw this. I'm a single guy. I have no plans for Labor Day weekend. I'm going to Scotland. I'm going to see St. Andrews. And so I rented a car and I had listened to a couple podcasts. So I knew a couple people mentioned like, if you're going to rent a car, you need to know. And I'm like, look, I'm a pretty athletic guy.

I'm pretty coordinated guy. How freaking hard could it be? And I'm talking, it went, and I told Trent this, it went. from in the first 30 seconds I went from I'm going to arrive to my destination to I have to find a parking lot before I run into somebody and practice. And I legitimately found a parking lot, had to go through all these damn roundabouts. And then I got to a parking lot. And I just practiced like, like, you know, somebody on their 16, you know, whatever. They're in class learning how to drive student driver.

And I had to practice because it was such a battle. Yeah. Did you have manual transmission? What was the – I made sure I had an automatic because I knew that we. be too many pieces to the puzzle. Thank God. Yeah, thank God.

Yeah, that's it. It's too many pieces of the puzzle. How about the roundabouts? Oh, my God. You're like, oh, my God, Jesus. Oh, you know, that's, that's, it's a sport. I was like, what is with these people and circles? They just love fucking circles.

They love them. It's crazy. You know, and how many times did you actually get in a roundabout and be like, okay, don't, don't panic. Just keep going around. Just keep going around. Let me try to figure out where I'm going to go. Like, how much, I've done roundabouts.

I've done like four loops. Exactly. That's what I did. Because if I wasn't sure on my exit point, I was like, well, if you just keep going around, nothing bad could happen. I just keep going around in a circle. And then where they really tripped me up was when I'm in the left lane and you're making a right turn. And then you're going across everything and you have to turn into the far lane. Because usually a right turn, it's just like a you can just slip in it out.

Nobody even knows you're at the intersection. When it's a right turn and you're in the left. Oh, it's a disaster. The craziest thing is crossing a road over there, and you're looking left, and the cars that are coming on your, that are, that the car you really need to pay attention is coming from your right. Yep. So you step out into the road thinking you need to look left, and this car is bearing down you on the right. Like, you know, that's real serious danger. Very dangerous.

Very dangerous. Yeah. It can be over real quick. So Ireland, getting on the top courses and all of that. What do people need to know about getting on, you know, if it's the Royal County Down or Royal Port Russia, wherever they're going to go? What do they need to know about getting on? Is it doable? Is it easy?

Does it depend on the course? What's the situation? Yeah. I mean, you know, as you probably figured out, you know, the old course is really the one that's that's the hardest one to get on. And you do need to call ahead because sometimes at a place like Le Hinch, they'll take a month and kind of make it, you know, they'll have a big tournament or, you know, they'll have a big tournament or. or members only for a month or what have you. So if you are going to try to get on these courses, almost all of them except outside play.

And it may be that you have to play in the afternoon. If you're trying to do a weekend, they'll have members' times in the morning so you can't really get out in the morning. You just have to kind of feel your way around from course to course. And you plot out an itinerary based on not only some of the big names, but do leave room for the place. like Crail Golfing Society near St. Andrews or Borough up there in northern Scotland,

you know, make sure you have a little wiggle room to do a little self-discovery on your own, to say, hey, when you're at O'Nco, oh, by the way, you need to play this course down the street. A lot of people don't make it to Cruden Bay. They stop it, you know, sort of Trump Aberdeen or Aberdeen itself. If you don't go to Cruden Bay, you're crazy. If you don't get all the way out there, it's one of the great experience. Tane is another old Tom Morris design. So build in a couple key, big name courses that you're going to make sure you're going to be able to brag to your friends about.

Call ahead and make sure that they got available T-Times. It doesn't take, you know, if you're calling three months in advance, that's probably most advanced known as with the exception of the old course. And then give yourself a little wiggle room to have a little discovery of some of the great, you know, lesser-known courses. in those areas or along the drives that you're making. And don't bog your itinerary down with too much golf. Don't lock yourself into 36 a day for six days or eight days. Definitely give yourself some time to get off the course in the pubs, you know, in these towns to experience a little culture,

spend some time with these people and have the crack, CRAIC, you know, because if you miss out on the crack, you've missed out on places like Ireland. life insurance is very important. That's because your life is clearly important, but it's also very confusing. That's true. That is very true. There's one thing that's confusing in this world that's life insurance. There's a lot of things that are confusing, but top of that list is probably life insurance.

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they're going to Ireland or Scotland tomorrow and they're packing and you had to give them one item to make sure that they have in their golf bag before they get over there. What would it be? Well, rain suit. Definitely pack a really good rain suit. Forget the umbrella. It's going to do you no good. If it's raining, it's going to be windy, and the wind is going to, you're going to

brutalize. And then also definitely pack two pairs of shoes, two pairs of golf shoes, because if that one pair of golf shoes gets soaked and you go to try to put those on the next morning, it's a miserable experience. You're never going to keep your socks dry. So you want to be able to rotate out your golf shoes. A pair of golf shoes. The rain gloves, by the way, are critical.

Those rain gloves, you know, the weather they get, the stickier they are. Oh, yeah. Magic makers. So rain gloves are great rain suit that you feel comfortable in. That's big enough to go over all your clothes and you can slide it on and off. Because, you know, if it's raining for 15 months, 15 minutes, it can be sunny then for another hour and a half, rain for 15 minutes. And then a second pair of golf shoes. That would be, that's what I make sure I bring every time I go over to Island.

I think the second pair of golf shoes is the best advice I've, that I've, I learned the hard way. I had to buy a new pair in the pro shop. But I learned it the hard way. And it rained the day before. And then I put my golf shoes. There was like a fire in our room, like literally like a nice fireplace in our room, put them right in front of the fireplace. It's like I'm ready to go, dried them off a towel as much as I could. And then fireplace all night, woke up, tried to put them on.

My socks were just soaked. immediately. I was like, what is going on here? They just don't know how to dry. They just don't drive. And don't bring new shoes. You don't want to bring new parachute. You know, even bring the, bring the pair of shoes that you used to wear two years ago if you still got them. Because, you know, you don't want to get the blisters over there. It can ruin the trip. Yeah. It's true. Even that's a really good point out of band and cabot and over in the UK, where the more firm terrain beats up your feet and your calves and everything, way more.

than you would ever expect. True, true. What is the most surprising golf destination you've ever visited where you got there and afterwards you were just very surprised at what it was versus what you thought it was going to be? Well, I've always said, and I've now talked about it a lot, but Forest Dunes in Ross Common, Michigan now has not just Forest Dunes, the Weisskopf design, but it also has the loop, the Tom Doak design, reversible routing. So it's got a lot more play now that Doe's.

added a sort of a second slash third course there. But, you know, if you go to try to find Roscommon, Michigan, and you're out in the middle of this, you're middle of nowhere, and you roll up on this clubhouse and this golf course and this experience they have out there now, you're going to be blown away. Brainer, Minnesota, you know, a Madden's Resort. They got a course called the Classic there.

Phenomenal. I feel like, right now I'm sitting a turning store. Stone in Verona, New York, four hours out of New York, four hours from Boston. They got three big golf courses, a nine hole course, a short course. They've got an awesome casino, not very smoky. They got all kinds of gaming playing here. They've got world-class spa, multiple dining options. Nobody knows about this place.

This is a home run. And they got salmon fishing. This is, you know, this is world-class stuff that's kind of flying below the radar. They've had a tour, a tour event here for four years. Notabaget Gay had his event here every year for a while. And I'm telling you guys, this is real deal. They do it right up here, high quality. So, you know, the sense of discovery is a big reason why I love what I do,

the idea that you can go and kind of find some hidden gems. Austin, Texas, Barton Creek. I had no idea Barton Creek existed until, you know, about 10 years ago. I went there. I sent a lot of people there. No one has a bad time in Austin. So, you know, keep going on and on. Yeah, that attorney's tone, you keep talking about.

We might have to come up and join you. We're not too far from that right now. Come on. Come on. I'll be in the poker room tonight. Next thing you know, we're just going head-to-head with Madgenel at the poker table. You gave us such a good pitch. We had to come up.

Yeah, my money's good. I'll just leave my wallet out. Yeah. So, Mad Janella Golf Channel, last thing, why don't you tell everybody about your new show this year, your half-hour show. tell our audience about the show. Well, I started doing these seven-minute travel vignettes for Morning Drive. It felt like a little mini show within the show on Morning Drive for the last five years. And I kept telling the powers at Golf Channel and Golf Advisor, you know,

hey, guys, I go with a great crew. You know, we're only as good as the people around us, right? I got a great production staff and an awesome producer I've been all over the world with. and I said, we go spend two, two and a half days. We get all these great guests. And we come and run a seven minute. We run a seven minute show. And, you know, it's like we come back with a dead cow.

We only eat the filet. Like, there's all this other content out there. Why don't we, you know, we got 24 hours, 24 hour golf network seven days a week. They're looking for content. We're looking for content. Why don't we kind of stretch some of this out, do one more day of shooting and make a 30-minute show up? And so that's what we got. We've got Golf Advisors Round Trip.

I'm shooting the seventh show right now. I still do the seven-minute features for different destinations that only can commit to that kind of cost. But if a destination really wants to showcase what they've got, I come in and do a 30-minute show, and it's an opportunity for me to spend time with these. Jim Beheim is going to be up here tomorrow. We're going to be shooting with him. And he loves turning soon. So it's not even me endorsing the destination.

It's tapping into the people who love places already. So Beheim loves this place because it's close to Syracuse. And Larry Fitzgerald loves Scottsdale, TPC Scottsdale. You know, Jeremy Ronick loves Trune. So I get all these people to come be my guest, and they tell me and the viewers why they love these places. And we do it in a 30-minute show now, and it's great for me, as you guys know, we're all just in the content business. how we package it, how we distribute it, is a wide variety of options now. And for me, given this opportunity to partner with Golf Advisor and still have a platform

like Golf Channel, is huge. And I feel like, again, we just keep working, doing things that doesn't ever feel like work. Well, Mad Genella, you can follow him. He's on Twitter, and he's on Instagram, and he documents all of his trips very well, and obviously check him out on Golf Channel because he's doing great things, giving you really good advice on where to go and how to plan those trips. And sounds like you're having a good time as well. So, Matt, we really appreciate you taking the time, my man.

Hope to cross paths soon, guys. And, you know, let's tee it up at some point very soon. And really appreciate this opportunity. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Let's get out there soon and have a good night, my friend. Good luck at the poker table. I'll see you at the poker table.

See you, Matt. Thank you.