Fore Play - Billy Walters, Homeless Sports Fans, & 20 Years of Barstool

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

Billy Walters, Phil’s long-time gambling partner, joins the show (1:05:53). Billy discusses the severe highs and lows with Phil and being one of the best sports gamblers in history. Before Billy, we read our original emails from Dave as 20 years of Barstool approaches, our hopeless sports fandoms, Mr. Borrelli thriving at the Classic, and the Tour’s $18M finale.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Oh, Rick! What's up my brother? I've got a buddy who struggles with that shot. A lot. His name's Frankie Borrelli. So the guys actually gave him a nickname of Butter Nives because he always knites and across the green.

Brod 100. Now you've got to break 90. We appreciate what you guys do for golf. It's been really cool. Thank you. You're making it cool. I was like, hey, Phil, you only fucking 2999. And he grabs 100.

He's like, yeah, I won 90,000 a piece yesterday. He goes, take 100 and go fuck yourself. What? What are you that different? It's ain't a hobby. For Play, presented by Barstool Sports. This show will be coming out on August 24th, 2000 and 23. A little bit of time warp again, busy, crazy week.

We got Barstool's 20th anniversary awards Wednesday night in Boston, which I'm going to talk about a little bit, because 20 years of Barstool, it's pretty fucking crazy to think about. But we've got the Tour Championship this week. Our merch has started to leak out. We've seen some photos. Trent Daddy is rocking that white hoodie with the Red Trin and the Red Tour Championship. How fresh is that, Trent?

It's very comfortable, very fresh. Got a little Barstool Golf on the sleeve. I don't usually wear white hoodies, but the way I'm looking in this camera right now, it's clean as fuck. So, yeah, it's very comfortable. Go out there and get your Tour Championship merch because it is nice. kicks on too. Oh yeah. I got new shoes too. Wow, some new balances. Yeah. So just, you know, the outfit feels good today. It didn't feel good when I woke up, but then Alex Bush handed me this tour championship put in it, turned my day around. That thing is excellent. I think we got, um, are we going to

get some Tommy Fleetwood appearances this week in some of our gear again? I feel like that's a staple. and we're kind of working on that. Dan Rapaport's on site. Yep, he's on site and he spoke with Tommy Flewwood and his team and Tommy the first thing I think you said to him was I want a Barstool Sports head cover for my putter. So that's pretty exciting. I mean, I don't know why Tommy Flewwood loves our birds so much. But every time we see that guy, he goes, I want more. So we're sending him, I think, like 45 putter covers. Yeah, there was a lot of back and forth. I think the key is just get stuff to him. He just wants our stuff is kind of what it appears. I don't think much stuff as possible. Just get him stuff. Just get him stuff that he

He can then just rock. He literally wore it. Was it Sunday of the Players' Championship when he wore that hoodie into the clubhouse? And they happened to put out the players' championships, splice up, TikTok of everybody arriving at Tommy, just arrived in a Barstool Golf player's hoodie. So the more opportunities we can set that up, set that stage for that to occur, I think that's a win for the boys for sure.

He wore it seven days in a row and was complaining to us that we hadn't posted a video of it. He's like, I've been wearing this hoodie every single day. It's got sweat and it like I'm dying. It was 100 degrees at the players. It was a little too big for him. It was too big. He's like, I'm wearing it. I haven't seen you guys post it.

We're like, we're not even there anymore. We're watching on TV. One of our favorites. He's got me thinking too. Ryder Cup. Rider Cup's going to be a problem. Tommy Fleetwood's up there. Victor Hovlin just shot a 61 at a day when it feels like nobody thought 61 was a real number that anybody

could have shot. I saw the Matt Fitzpatrick clip of him afterwards, just calling him like a little shit. And then being like, yeah, I mean, there's nothing. Literally nothing I could do about a 61. So Victor Hovel is playing great. Matt Fitzpatrick's playing great. Rory's always playing great. John Rom won the Masters this year, always playing great.

It feels like Tommy Fleetwood, our guy, playing great. Going back to Europe, Rome. The United States of America hasn't won there in decades. We've got our own controversy as now Brooks Kepka slipped outside the top six. Will they take them or will they not take them? They're obviously going to end up taking them. But, yeah, it feels like Europe's peeking a little bit right now, if I'm honest with everybody. Yeah, which was not.

the tune we were singing at Whistling Straits. We were thinking that the Ryder Cup was kind of doomed for the foreseeable future. I mean, it was an absolute trouncing. It was a slaughter by the water. USA just completely dominated Europe. We were like, this is embarrassing. We were celebrating by, you know, the second day, essentially, knowing that it was a victory. And now it looks like the tables have turned. Somehow, some way that the Europeans have just caught fire. They have. They have. I mean, it's not really somehow, some way they have some of the best players that are on tour. You've got Victor Hovlin lighting the fucking world on fire shot 61. What was it? 28 on the back nine, which is just the most hilarious number of all time. That number makes no sense. But yeah, it's these guys really, really have, you know, taken control over that team and they've stepped up. And if you're a European fan, you're like, holy shit, we're back.

Like, that's got to be pretty exciting. And going into Italy, I think all golf fans should be. excited that's going to be kind of a heavyweight bout you got a big title fight now this is not just going to be some push over event the rider cup's going to show up it's in rome the coliseum is there you're like you're talking gladiator fighting gladiator you're talking big time lights come on primetime golf at two o'clock in the morning it's going to be pretty fucking fun to watch i don't know if i'm allowed to talk about this but at the colonial yesterday at the barcel classic a guy i was on the seventh t the long drive hole the tailor made long drive hole

and a guy came up to the T-box wearing 20-25 Bethpage Black Rider Cup merch. And I was like, where the fuck did you get that? Like, where did you get that? Because we've got 20-23 merch and it hasn't even happened yet. And people are like, where did you get that? And he was like, oh, I worked for PGA of America. I worked for the Ryder Cup side on the American side. He's like, I live now in, you know, near Bethpage Black.

We're starting to set up. It's in a couple of years. And I was like, oh, wow, there's, you know, we got the six. guys already in the six pick like who do you think it's going to be and he was like i actually know he's like i can't tell you but i know i know who's on the team he and he wouldn't tell me we stood on the t box for 10 minutes and i like kept dropping hints like yeah man you know j t hasn't been playing well but i wonder if he's going to make it on the rider cup team and then i would just let the silence sit there hoping the guy would say something he was saying they know like because

they got to get all the stuff ready they got to fill out all these forms so the picks were in, he knew them and I could not get them out of him. He was like, you're a member of the media. If I tell you, that's like not good for my job. But he knows the picks are in. Stunning. Stunning. I would say it's stunning and that this fella knew and had the 2025 Bethpage gear because that's pretty fire. It is not that. I would say like I think most people feel it's a little bit like the political world where when Zach Johnson, who said earlier this week, there's still 20 guys that I'm considering. That's no offense to your guy, Trent Ryan.

And that's not really, you know, in line with a lot of the values from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. But I think this is above him. I don't, there's no way he's got 20 guys that he's considering for this, right? Nobody, nobody buys that. No, but this guy knows. He is on an email. Yeah.

Of like, hey, here are the six picks. It's not like, yeah, there's a small pool of people, which there are. I agree with you. But this guy knows. This is like knowing the president, who won the president, election like two days before everybody else knows the six picks for sure but then the captain's picks have to be based off of like playoff performances and stuff right because if lucas glover would have like won four tournaments in a row you're just like picking him as opposed to not correct like

there's no way you're submitting that like to be some leeway you're right there has to be some leeway because if yeah if he won four in a row and won the and won this championship and they were like yeah you're not on the team because zach johnson said an email about shirt sizes a month ago I mean, come on. Lucas Glover would be sitting there with his fucking his sweaty ass pants, his asshole sweat all over, his dickhole sweat all over himself. And he'd be like, I'm not playing in the Ryder Cup. I won 11 tournaments in a row. What are you talking about? I'll just give you my shirt size right now. I'll go, you know what Lucas Glover would do? He'd go to the fucking pro shop in Italy and probably buy a Barstall sports rider cup merch and just be like, I'm on the team now. I would also take this all with a grain of salt because that same guy told me, me he was like yeah it doesn't matter because the picks are coming out later today which was yesterday and the picks have not come out to my knowledge this guy's a compulsive liar he probably

was like this guy's setting up like the stanchions by like the coffee hut but you're third hole you got to understand i was listening to him because i was so the merch that he was wearing had me believing everything he was saying had that 2025 beth page black hat on and the 2025 beth page black shirt on i was like you could tell me anything and i'm gonna believe he could credit to this guy. I'd be like, oh my God. Credit to this guy who's, I think we've determined is the least credible person ever. And he made his way on to the biggest golf podcast with his pretty much every word he was saying yesterday. He's like, we just kind of regurgitated it.

He made that merch on Etsy. He was like on Etsy just like copying and pasting the logo that he saw at the lunchroom at Beth Page. He's like, oh, shit. He had me. I bleaked every word he said. Yeah. I think it was the subbar guys who had Zach Johnson on like this week. And I saw a clip that was like, uh,

huge like day for you tomorrow which i i guess was was yesterday or today with the oh yesterday with the with the top six picks being officially locked up on points and even my brain was like is he making all of his picks so did i miss that did i miss that zach johnson made his picks and then luckily i started to kind of sort things out a little bit next week after the tour championship i believe is when those picks are finalized he makes the final six chevi dot com slash electric i need you to go there right now I need to check out this fantastic reality that we're living in, where All Electric has met Chevy and the bowtie and the entire deal. They have convenient ways at Chevy.com slash electric to research and shop electric vehicles online. When researching, I'd like you to use Chevy My Way vehicle specialists and hosts will give a virtual tour to help answer your question.

So anytime you've heard us talk about this, you're confused or you're wondering what your different options are, or you're wondering really anything at all, these virtual assistants will help you out. it's Chevy My Way. You can do it as much or as little of the buying process online with help for a participating dealers as you would like. You can configure finance and lease payments, apply for credit, upload documents, finalize your purchase through the secure checkout process. You can even schedule vehicle delivery at home or at the dealership.

You've purchased the traditional way in person. Our nationwide dealer network is available to help as well. So remember, go to Chevy.com slash electric. Check out those all electrics combined with all. of the traditional models, history, a century of history they've got at Chevy.com and the bow tie. Go check them out at Chevy.com slash electric. Dan's on site at Eastlake.

He's back in the doing his thing. He's recovered from Africa. And now he's at press conferences. He wants to be there. He's doing his TikTok videos. He's doing the Dan thing. We got Billy Walters coming on this podcast later, which I'm, I'm devastated. I'm going to have to miss that due to travel issues that we've got.

But Billy Walter, you guys are going to. handle this one of the more fascinating people that you could probably talk to you right now in the world of golf you had all the Phil Mickelson maybe the most notorious gambler in history i think one of his quotes is that he thinks Phil Mickelson probably gambled more money than anyone's ever gambled ever which if you really think about it's kind of like when we talk about is the current best player in the world of golf playing the greatest golf that's ever been played and it probably if you believe the scale continues to go up but up but up then Phil Mickelson right even if someone was betting more their net worth you know

a hundred years ago. It's like Phil Mickelson's probably wagered more money than anyone's wagered ever in the history of the world. And this guy was his fucking bookie and went to prison for a lot of this stuff that he did. That's fucking wild. That's wild. Yeah. No, that's a stunning, stunning like, you know, uh, stat line on Phil Mickelson to be the, the guy that's spent the most money ever on sports is crazy to me. Yeah. I mean, who else would it be? Michael Jordan. I mean, there's definitely some big fish out there that we don't even know about. Right. Like some billionaires that are doing some crazy shit.

True. Like I'll throw fucking 20 mil on this game. Like, holy shit. Okay. Like, let's go. There's definitely some back room behind like hidden doors shit going on. There's a,

you know that's true because too. There's a couple of Vegas. They're not even really like promoters. They're like the guys that handle the big whales that I've been lucky enough. to spend a night with a dinner or whatnot. And they're like, no, you've got to understand. Our entire business, we have like two jets. And we will just send a jet anywhere on earth to pick these guys up and bring them to Vegas.

And they will spend $100 million they'll lose in a weekend because they've just got. And we're seeing it with the Saudis building this trillion dollar line city thing. Like there's a level of money where paying Phil Mickelson, $250 million doesn't matter. And if you go to Vegas on the weekend and you lose $10 million, $100 million, it doesn't really matter. That's got to add up higher than what Phil Nicholson lost. for sure 100%. You don't think some of these Saudi guys are like gambling on a on a soccer game and they have like everyone in a room and they're like, we'll just throw $600 million on this game. And if they lose, we'll like execute the fucking goalkeeper or something. Phil is the one that we know about because he's so public. That's he's the most public highest gambler that we have ever seen. It reminds me of that the entourage episode when Vincent's up, who's he with on that like beach house where he's. He gets looped into betting like a hundred grand on a game or something.

He has like no money at the time. He's like, and he's like hook it up with what's his face, his daughter. Who's the fucking celebrity house he's at there? But that room is about, oh, who the fuck was in?

I can't think. Is that the one where they, the guy falls asleep and forgets to put the bed in? Yeah, exactly. But that, that scene reminds me of all these people sit around the couch. It looks like there's a chill out of the Saudis are all in for like 50 million each on

this fucking game. that they're watching. Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper. I had to look it up. I didn't know. Anyways, it's East Lake Tour Championship week this week. I'm sure you're going to see a million clips of Tiger Woods coming up the 72nd

hole with Rory Macroy and the crowds and the whole deal. That will, you know, forever be cemented in my mind. It's, I think, $18 million is sort of what's up for grabs. Now they've just continued to escalate it, escalate it. You've got the net scoring system that we've had for years and years. now, which is very funny. I don't know how much more we could talk about that. We made fun of it for like five years straight.

But we do have the merchandise there. So if you're in the tent, if you're in Atlanta, go check it out. Go get it in the tent. I believe, I believe, unless there's some rogue website again that's selling it where we're not, that the only way you can get our co-branded merchandise with the tour championship is in the tent at the tour championship, from my knowledge. Or if you're Tommy Fleetwood and you have Dan Rapaport out there who's basically going to be your personal assistant and go find you a putterhead. cover and bring it to you.

I think you have to go to the tent and acquire it. And then on that merchandise front, the gear is awesome. Trent Ryan looks amazing in that white hoodie. Next week, I believe. So right around that time when they announced the captain's picks and everybody's talking rider cup,

we've got co-branded, Arsenal golf, barstool sports, Ryder Cup merchandise that Frankie's been teasing it. I've been teasing it. Trent's been teasing it. We've all been teasing it. It's fucking unbelievable merchandise from a million different

standpoints on the quality of it. on the look of it and on just the reality of it, the fact that we have Ryder Cup merchandise, it's unfucking believable. Yeah, it makes no sense to me, honestly, that we are putting,

you know, the red, white and blue and it's official on our merchandise. I don't know how this has gotten to the point that we've gotten. We've got a lot of America stuff on here. I mean, I'm looking to my left. I just got a bunch of America stuff here.

And it's, you know, it's the American team. And this is our guys. These are our players. This is our country. We got our logo on it. And we got the,

rider cup logo like this shirt right here a bunch of things are going to fall right now oh no that was pretty that was pretty smooth um this poll right here is as clean as it gets man look at that logo are you kidding me it's so nice there's nothing that's ours except for it's actually made by us look at like like the tag is ours but other than that it's just a rider cup shirt and it's as clean as anything we've ever made that's so nice right like that's that's just barstool golf That's all that is. I wore that to the Barstle classic Boston last week. I wore that polo.

No preface. I didn't alert people that it was coming. And the amount of compliments that I got from folks, Mrs. Portnoy, cousin Linda, she was over the moon about that thing. Everybody on site just said that's one of the cleanest shirts I've ever seen. Riggs, where did you get that? And it's true. We even have it on a couple of our, a couple of our, I think, accessory items.

There's only like one of the hats. I think the hat that we've been wearing. It says it has a rider cup logo on the front. It says the course, which is what Marco, whatever, Rome on the side. And then it just has on the snapback, there's like a little B-cross-T Barstool Golf logo. But other than that, it's pretty much rider cup. It's clean rider cups also always one of my favorites for apparel gear type season because it's, it's right, right on the edge of when summer's ended, falls begun. It's crispy in the morning.

It's crispy at night. You can get away with hoodies, pullovers, pants. You can get away with short sleeve shirt. It's kind of that kind of season. So the fact that we're going to have our Rider Cup gear gives us a lot of options. And we're going to unroll. We're going to unveil and roll out.

I guess roll out would be the proper term. That entire fucking line of gear next week is when that's coming out. Dude, it is a big moment for us because I can remember a time. The year was 2018. And the Rider Cup was happening. And Dave Portnoy was ripping me and Riggs a new asshole. just because we weren't blogging enough, we weren't tweeting enough about,

it was the Patrick Reed, Jordan Speeth, Patrick Reed, Rory McElroye, year. And like, I just remember getting yelled at because we weren't blogging or whatever enough. And we calmed Dave down because we sold a Patrick Reed, Jordan Speeth American guy's shirt. And like, we're like, we're going to sell a bunch of shirts like, it's Ryder Cup merch people.

It's the greatest golf event in the world. And we're going to sell a bunch of shirts. Fast forward five years. Now we're co-branded merch with that, very same golf event. It really just shows how far we've come with this brand and with the merch and with everything. It's it's very, very, very cool for us. Yeah, that was, I was one of the famous Dave Portnoy emails that Trent and I got, which was I had gone out Saturday night, gotten a little too many libations as our friend Tiger Woods likes to call him and left my laptop in the office,

woke up, that whole thing was going on and I didn't even have my laptop so couldn't blog it on my way to the office. Me and Trent got an email that said in all lower caps, just a normal first sentence said, hey guys, like good morning, anything going on in the Ryder Cup? And then three spaces down, all caps said, wake the fuck up. And it was just not a good email for me and Trent to get. And we did. We kind of salvaged ourselves with those American guys shirts, which ended up getting CED. I think months or maybe years later, we sold quite a few of those. And bang, now we're here with our own merchandise. But yeah, come a very long way. Barswells come a long way, 20 years, 20 years. years for barstle sports i remember first reading dave in the library in college in like 2008 probably

and there was nothing like it at the time i mean you can pretty much only go to like espn's website and read about sports in a very kind of like blue blazer almost type way traditional media type way and then there was dave portnoy who was pretty much saying whatever the hell he wanted and i think at the time he was writing under like five different names acting like he was a bigger site than he was and for Barstool to now be back owned by Dave, but as big as it is, and doing a 20th anniversary party in Boston, it's kind of surreal.

Yeah, back in like 2009, 2010, when I was probably like a junior in high school, I had like three websites that I would go on. And one of them was this website, and I can't fucking remember what the name of it was. But basically it would just like curate a, like you'd hit like comedy and it would curate like funny stories or videos or like, like memes or pictures and then you were just hitting next and you really had like no option of scrolling.

It would just like give you new pictures and new like funny stories. And I remember being obsessed with that website. Like you'd find a bunch of funny shit on there. And like I just every day like wanted to see what like the new update was. And then I remember being at Borelli's and my buddy Chris, Chris Pallazzo, he was he's like, you know, he's just been with me forever. He was at Borellies. And he's a huge Red Sox fan and he used to just give me so much shit. Me and him would go back. and forth about Yankees, Red So he was like, you got a, he was a big Red Sox fan. So he was obviously a big barstool guy from the old like OG days. And he's like, you guys are reading this site.

And it was when, I mean, I think maybe it was like right in the beginning of that, of Neil, Neil for Neil like movement in Chicago, right? That was Chicago, right? Yeah. Yeah. And like Big Cat wasn't even like, I remember the first time Big Cat coming on the screen like in KFC radio and you're like, Holy shit. I can't wait to see what this guy looks like he's been funny in the blog.

So it's amazing where it comes from. But like you, you think back to like you, like now you see Big Cat in the office and he's a mega star and you see Dave in the office and he's selling the company for $500 million and buying it back for a dollar and doing all these crazy things. And you're like, man, when like you think about where these guys came from, let alone us, like we're just talked about how we just came from a crazy place with merchandise and we're with the writer come. You think about where those guys came from, man. Dave was eating a baggette a day from fucking Panera and he had a hunchback and he was sitting in a little office with a squirrel biting at him.

And now he's like hundreds of millions of dollars. A true American success story from the ground up, no help grinding his ass off. And guys like Big Cat and KFC and all these guys are multi-millionaires. I'm sitting there in the back of Borrelli's reading these fucking blogs and those guys are like multi-multi-millionaires now. That's the success. Like that's fucking nuts to me. 20 years.

No, it is crazy. I talked a little bit about it on the last show where I just love, I've always loved the internet, just the history of it, especially sports media. Like, I've always been very into it. And I've followed Dave's career very closely even before I worked here. And I remember when I got hired, I felt like I got pulled into my favorite TV show. And it's felt that way every single day that I've worked here. And it's just the fact, like I know I would have been following Barstool and the story of it,

regardless of if I got hired here, because it's just so interesting. and I was always into like, what's Dave going to do? That was back when Bill Simmons was like blowing up with the ESPN part of it. Like watching the people that you started reading so long ago start to build these internet empires and to see where it goes and to be lucky enough that I, for whatever reason, got hired by one of those companies that Dave Portnoy saw an email, saw my blog and was like, you can work here and we'll see where this thing goes. being a part of that for the last 10 years or however long that I've worked here, it feels it's very surreal.

And for it to be 20 years, like Frankie's saying, to see Dave go from the Milton office, yelling at Hank, yelling at Fidelberg to now building a company and he's now has hundreds of millions of dollars, has the company back now. It's just all very surreal. I really do every day feel like I got pulled into my favorite TV show. We're very lucky to work here. The fact that Barstools at 20 years, like I'm getting goosebumps. I was thinking about it. Like all the breaks that it took watching Dave go from where he is to where he is now. It's just again, I could talk about it for five hours because I'm just so fucking interested in that stuff. And the fact that I've been like a small part of it is the best thing that I'll ever do in my life. I always think about to myself when I even I, when I first started with Dave, I got an email. I got the job and he texted me. He emailed me. He goes, you're my guy. That was in the fucking title. And it was like you're now in the Dave Portnoy business. I remember getting that email being like, I know what I.

I think I know what that is, but I don't truly know what he meant by that. It's like the most insane email I've ever gotten. It's like, you're now in the Dave Portnoy business, happy to have you. And I'm like, all right. Boy, do I know what the day of Portlandine business is now after fucking eight years. Dude, I'll, I'll tell you what it is. It's a cancer like feeling right below, right below the stomach and right above, like where your appendix should be. It's right in there.

But, but like, I was just to say real quick, like, when we first started doing pizza reviews, he had done them already. And then like, he said he was going to come to New York. We were doom every day. And I remember starting there, we would just be able to go to pizza places and people didn't know what the fuck was going on. Like this guy's coming in ordering pizza. I'm outside filming it. And like no one knew who he was in New York City. Like no one knew anything that was going on.

Like they're like, why are you filming me outside my pizza place? Now the guy, you fast forward like eight years. And now the guy has a pizza fest on at Coney Island with 6,000 people showing up. The guy can't even walk into a pizza place without the place like Burr. down out of excitement. Like how it's gone, like, when you just like blink and then you just fast forward to all the success, it's actually like mind numbing to think about putting yourself back in the situation like where we were.

We were in that old office. And like you couldn't even envision that type of success. You were just like, we were just going day by day being like, I don't know. It's a fucking sick, like sick job. But like I don't foresee that being the future. I never envisioned it. Essentially taking over the internet. world. Like Dave took over the internet world. Dude, I talking about that first email you get from Dave,

I remember mine. So I had started a blog. I was writing for like five months to nobody. And I was just trying to write funny stories, writing like 10 blogs a day about Iowa stories in a barstool way. And then I got sort of in trouble with the University of Iowa for selling these Fran McCaffrey shirts. And that's why I ended up emailing Barstool. And I put a link to my blog in it just thinking I would never get a response, but why not? And I remember. remember getting the email back from Dave where he said, and remember I'm a security guard writing to maybe my four friends who are reading my blog. So I don't even know if it's good or not. I just like, I feel like I can maybe be good at this and it's something I want to do. I'm doing it

for free. So I send that email. I get an email back from Dave where he says, you know, you're a small operation, so you're going to have to take the shirts down, whatever, but you're a good writer and we like the blog. That validation, that's like the best thing ever. Hearing from a guy that I have been reading for so long, and I think is the funniest guy in the world for him to be like, hey man, you're writing. We really like it and I think it's good. I was like, I could die now.

If my life had stopped right then, I would have been like, I did something that was worthwhile. And then, you know, we've been going for 10 years or whatever. But that moment where you're like, oh, the thing that I thought I might be good at, a guy who I love thinks I'm good at it is the best. And we're kind of sucking the whole company's dick right now. but that's genuinely how I feel.

I remember as just a fan at that time when Trent's Iowa, Barstool, Iowa was launched. And it's very funny to look back at now that this visionary that we all report to Dave Portnoy was like, we got Barstool Boston. We got Barstool, New York, Barstool, Philly, Barstool Chicago. And we're going to launch Barstool, Iowa. And this fucking guy is just going to write about stuff that goes on in Iowa. And that's what you did, Trent.

And it was, Just the contrast between the other shit that people are writing. And then like there'd be an update from Barstool, Iowa. And it would just be like a train, like ran through like when it wasn't supposed to. I remember some guy got got stuck in like a corn silo. And I was like, all right. This is what we're writing about. Yeah.

No, it was bizarre. But it was, it's crazy, man. I want to puke reading this email back. Just even what I responded with. I'm like putting myself back into this world. Dave writes, hey Frank. which is insane. Hey Frank,

great meeting you Friday. I want to hire you as my right hand man. You are now in the Dave Portnoy business if you want to be. Let me know if this works for you. First day would be October 3rd. And I wrote, I wrote, I absolutely upset,

except there's no one else I'd rather work for and learn from. Can't wait to get started. I wrote Viva, Frank. And then, and then he, and then basically he's like going back and forth. And then I fucking just,

I sold by soul to the devil here. could have, I, I had never worked at anywhere other than Borrelli, so I had no idea what to say here. And I go, so basically he goes, this is a full-time gig, like, this is it. Like, this is your spot. And I said, going into this, after speaking to Erica, I assume this would only be a couple days a week unpaid internship. But I realized that the Dave Portnoy business is going to be a full-time gig. It's going to take me away from my family restaurant, which right now I make about $50,000.

If that works for you, that's fine. If not, don't worry about it. I said, I said, I'm just happy. for literally anything at this point. I want to be on board. I'm happy to start with what you feel is fair. I honestly am not familiar with salaries of this position as I don't think it's ever been a real thing. It's so true. That position of being Dave Portnoy's guy was not a real thing. I remember sitting there and I'm like, I could have maybe asked for a little bit more. I mean, I was just like grinding in New York City fucking paying rent and doing all this stuff. I was barely

making a dollar in New York City making like $49,000 $999. So yeah. absolute crazy first introduction to the Dave Portnoy business. So here, I've got my email too. It was easy to pull up. So I had emailed him about the t-shirts expecting no response. And then Dave wrote back, if people ask to take him down, we generally do. It happens from time to time. Iowa sounds like assholes.

Honestly, you're so small, I wouldn't worry about it too much about a real lawsuit. That's just me, though. More importantly, I really like the blog. What do you think about Barstool, Iowa? I know it sounds stupid, but whatever. A good writer is a good writer. Wow. So random and out of that.

like left field like you're that you got to you just got to put yourself back where i was at that point like living in my friend's basement a third shift security guard just trying to do something that i loved and then i get that and i was like fucking right dude let's go holy shit oh like why would he start barstile iowa like if you if you think about like why well then he did one he doesn't do him anymore he used to when he would hire people he would do press conferences at the water at the water bubbleer. And he was like, you know, they did the whole music. They played the music.

And he was like anytime, anywhere. All we're looking for is funny people. I don't care if you're in Boston, New York, Chicago or Iowa. Like we just want funny people at this company, funny people writing blogs. And that's why he did it. That's such a fucking. It's incredible. It's insane.

I remember, we can stop talking about this at some point because I'm sure people like this is insane that we're still talking about this. I remember it was a snowstorm in Cedar Rapids, when that was happening and I just walked outside and laid in the snow for half an hour because I was just like, this is crazy that this is happening to me. And it still feels like a dream. It definitely still does. I remember I pulled up my emails and I just know that I think three emails in, he asked me,

I think two questions that are just illegal that you're just not allowed to ask anybody at that point. He just said, he said, how old are you? Where do you live? And what are your salary requirements? and to Frankie's point, I wrote, I believe I wrote back, my hope is a base salary that's literally just enough to get by. That's what I wrote to it. And that was pretty much it.

And then he was like, let's go back and forth. We're going to have you right. And we'll meet in like a month and see how it goes. And that was pretty much it. But I also consider that one of the great miracles in history that he somehow read my email, responded to it. Like, what is that guy doing at that point in his life reading random emails from people? we know like we get a million of those you get dms you get all kinds of stuff like actually reading

and having the time to like try to pick people out that are good and talented uh with at the point that what barstool is that is pretty shock and kind of miraculous so so yeah god if i tried to get a job now i'd be left out of the building like with my previous uh you know i had no skill i faked it until i made it i had no more teaching me to edit videos every single day to try and get pizza reviews out i had no idea what i was doing i literally went in for the interview to try and I was like, I'll clean the floors. I don't really know. I don't care. I just want to be here. That's, uh, yeah, it's a miracle. I mean, honestly, I think it's probably a miracle. That bar still idol that they do when people had to go through. Like, I don't think any of us would come.

Oh my, would make it through a day of barstole idol. Well, if we're being technical, I actually did it and I won, but I got to move, I got to move to New York, even though I still are to, I already worked here, but that's true. That's true. Yeah, man, fucking nightmare. We're basically like, I, I, have you seen fight club. Yeah. Or like the people who were hanging, we were the people hanging out in front of the porch just like waiting to be let in. Just hang on the porch for long enough.

And Dave's like, all right, you can come in. We got in. Somehow we got in. Here we are. Seven years later. Eight years, seven and a half years later for me. Yeah. So I imagine people are going to see a lot of this type of content Wednesday night,

which was last night or today, Thursday as Barstool from the award show. And I don't even really know what to expect of the award show. I know they're giving out awards. I think they're going to probably be pretty sarcastic like the Dundies a little bit and probably a few that are pretty real. It'll probably be some real feels out there, some good laughs. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know who's planning it.

You might know who's even like behind the scenes planning it, writing it. Like a Blatman. I think Blatman's been doing it a lot of it. I've been getting a lot of Blatman emails about pup punk. We're supposed to be doing like music and out playing songs, my real girlfriend the whole deal so yeah i got to get like my outfits together i got my suit and then i've got to get like a pup punk outfit i think i'm gonna be doing like a lot of costume changes i really don't know what to expect tomorrow we've been pretty fucking busy it feels like

and we're about to be really busy i mean uh and i just this has just been one of those things that's just been on the calendar and i haven't done much prep for it and we're just i'm just i'm just gonna be on a stage tomorrow night that's tomorrow night tomorrow night and just i really don't know what i'm yeah i don't know what to do so I think that's very barstle to really not know what's going on for the Barstle 20th Awards. Yep. Perfect. Being prepared.

That's absolutely perfect. It's not very barstle. Me and Frankie just were getting texts from our friend Matt Duchenne about the body fat situation. And you actually, Frankie. So, Dushan, you know, we obviously talked last time. I think you said 14% was your body fat that you got, Frankie? That was your, from this. Yeah, I said it was that scale that said like 14%.

So he said the scales, first of all, the scales are not legit, but 14% body fat is actually quite good for a non-athlet slash hardcore rec fitness guy. Hockey players are all between 8 and 12%, anything lower than that and usually burn out during the season or get hurt. Just wanted to give you a little positive reinforcement. So I feel like that's great news for us. Yeah, it seemed like a little dig at Barzell, who's like 4% body fat and he's saying he's going to burn out.

Okay. You know. I got to let some of... I heard a knock from somebody. I was like, if it's Frankie, that's weird. Who's coming in? Frankie, is this room just that you do the show from? Is this just specifically a Frankie room?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's everything. I mean, if it wasn't mine, I'd really fucked it up because it's just everything about me in here. It'd be weird if someone else was in this room with me. But yeah, it's just like a little office that we have upstairs. And we've got too many rooms.

I had to make one of them. I don't have any kids or anything. like it's just not yet yeah yeah not in the cards right now hopefully hopefully all right yeah okay you know you know you know just like the bullet points of life you know i was just checking them off so it's like at some point one of these rooms are going to be turned into something pink or blue right if you're looking at a trajectory like you're you're just marking the boxes you got married you got a house

now what you got it we got enough room for them. So who knows? We'll see. We'll see how I don't know. I think it's my decision. I get to fucking stage is set. Right.

It's kind of, yeah, that's sort of what it feels like. It ultimately comes to my decision. Does it not? I feel like it's a split second decision. It is. But like I think,

I think the way it works is that it ends up being my call. Yeah. I think. I'm pretty sure unless it's like. You're going to be expected to be in the most rational mindset when you have to make that split second. right dude think of all the generations of human that have gone on

that moment they're all like I'm just going to do it I like the pole from nature is so extreme that people are like I'm just going to do it I'm just going to fucking do this now what a thing to talk about on a golf podcast yeah all right only four more barstool classics

left this year after a fantastic showing at Colonial Springs. Nice day in New York. It did get a little hotter than I expected. But just a fantastic turnout. Really good scene. People were into it. Mr. Brelli was cracking me up. That man was just made for social media and for the cameras. At one point, he walked on. I was holding down the putting contest situation. At one point, he walked on in the green with his putter. And he just looked at us, he goes, you better get that camera rolling. That's what he said When he walked out to the green So yeah Lovely day I know that's your guys home spot What a What a like serene

Hidden Experience out there The clubhouse Looks like it's on It's like on the Hamptons It's got like this old but beautiful Look to it The course everybody was raving about

The golf course saying they could not believe Because most people It's a private course Had never played there before It played very difficult Which is kind of what we had heard And expected But people were going

going nuts about the course, about the experience, that little chipping mat with the 18th green and then the putting going on there. It's just kind of a perfect, perfect venue, I feel like. Yeah, it's a great spot. Shout out to Dan Spasada, the PGA Pro there. And Gene, who's the super, who's got that place absolutely dialed in, people that play a lot of Long Island golf that are used to the greens being defense, like the defense of golf courses because we don't have much land on Long Island. So all these like old school country clubs, places like engineers club and Garden City where like you feel like it's pretty easy to get down the fairway and towards the green and then once you're on the green even Rockville it's like holy shit like we we did all this

work we did little amount of work to get onto the green and then now it's like the whole day started once you get onto the green colonial is it's a fair there's not crazy undulations on the greens there's not crazy swells and like mounds and but they're fucking fast man they were running like a 14 yesterday and every single person that came off that golf course was like these fucking greens are a nightmare so it does i mean it makes trent probably feel better that we do all these breaking 90s there and everyone's like how the fuck to even come close to the top 90 if you've never broke a 90 before dude the number one piece of feedback i got was people saying it's crazy that you try to break 90 out here which made me feel so good i wish every single person who watches our videos would play

the golf courses we play so they know because it's it's easy to to be like an armchair quarterback when you're watching a guy really struggle on a golf course you've never played. But like I said, that everybody who came up to me on the seventh hole was like, the fact that you come out here and try to break 90 is absolutely absurd. So that did make me feel back. If you don't have your A game out there at Colonial, it's over. Yep. Because like you can't miss the fairway. There's Fescue on the left and right of every single hole. And there's OB left on like seven of the first seven the first seven holes it feels like of pines is just obi left so if you have any sort of pull or you just you're just not hitting it or maybe you play like the trent ryan cut and like it

just doesn't cut as much as it should but on a normal course it's just under the trees here it's obi it's like fuck man it's a tough course but man the place really really did well i'm really proud of the of the club because they were excited about it um it's their first time hosting anything like that so yeah good day really good day my dad was out of control he was shit face last night I mean, he was him and my father-in-law played with my buddy Axe and Andrew. And they said, my buddy Axarad said when they were on the 18th hole, he goes, he said to Andrew, he goes, this is the 18th hole? And they're like, yeah, they were all so mad that the day was over because he was watching my dad and

my father-in-law play. And they were just a cartoon character. At one point, my dad, like, hit it into the water and then Don threw him a ball and it went over his head into the water. And they're all, like, falling on their backs laughing. like every ball that they touched was just ending up in the water and my dad's trying to make all these videos. Then they ended up playing from the red teas. My dad's like, I'm fucking done with these backties.

My dad teed off from the red teas at every single hole because he's like, I'm not winning this thing. I just don't care. Also, like they didn't even submit like a handicap. So like people are looking at them from other holes. And my dad's dropping balls in the middle of the fairway. And people are probably like, who is that guy trying to compete for the Barstool Classic? Like he's an absolute clown show. like like Andrew was saying people were looking at them being like if they submit a score today like we're going to have like like we're going to have to kill them because they're clearly cheating out there he's just dropping balls hitting three woods I think he teed one up in the middle of the fairway to try and hit the green on a par five so like he's just he's had the time of his life yesterday which is which is what the bar so classic is like after three or four holes a lot of people realize they don't have a chance at that point so like how do you just have really a lot of fun out there and it's by drinking.

truly's it's by playing music it's by having fun with people obviously like they had the best time ever because they were with four people that they knew and and that's another thing with the barso classic you just you match up with random people and you end up having the time of your life so everyone around them was having the time of their life Kyle Palmary from the islanders was in front of them looking back being like what the fuck's going on Andrew chipped in from Kyle Paul Mary's tea box I was right there was just chaos it was chaos yesterday at colonial but my I called my dad at nine he was passed out I texted him this morning like did you like were you sleeping he's like I couldn't even keep my eyes open. Good day. Perfect. Absolutely perfect. Yeah,

it went great. We had a bunch of folks, we had like 12, 12 people from the NYPD that were out there. We've had a great relationship with them. We've raised some money for different causes. Barser was always kind of gotten behind law enforcement, behind first responders, many, many, many different times throughout. Obviously, they deserve it. They put their lives in the line. They're at risk all the time. Incredible history, obviously, around this part of the country. with different things that have happened, different moments where they've stepped up. So they do the NYPD golf team, which they tag us in quite a few things. Really, their whole purpose for it is mental health driven.

It's to get guys out from the stresses and the chaos and everything that we can imagine being part of the NYPD, FD, NY, so we've done a lot of stuff with them. We took care of a handful of their teams and said, please come out, play. they thanked us in a lot of cool different ways. They made a golf bag for me. I saw different head covers. They were giving the guys. I got a really cool ball marker that they made that anything where you get the badge

and you get a bunch of the different slogans, New York's finest and all that. And then Taylor made had made these head covers and bags for them that are off the charts. All of the all of the incredible creativity and design that you see from Taylor made around major championships, around the masters, the azalea balls. put into these different, like, very custom crafted items with obviously NYPD. FDNY first responder ties. And the stuff's awesome. We had one team made it.

We had one out of the four teams to go into Greyhawk. That was part of the NYPD crew. So, so yeah, awesome stuff from them. Obviously, New York Police Department is important as it gets. And for them to be out there having a great time, nicest guys in the world, it was nice to see. So, yeah, it was a full New York experience. Frankie, you posted that picture of your dad and your buddy who stopped by the police officer looking like a hunk of beef, your friend.

I saw that picture of him. Dude, he looks unbelievable. Yeah, he's ripped. He's absolutely fucking shredded. He's got the, he's like in his, he's like in some, we could probably bleep out his name actually. I know. I didn't want to say his name. But he was, yeah, he's like, I guess he's like sort of a detective.

So he doesn't have to dress in like the full police gear. So he just had a movie. He looked like a movie version of like a detective. Like he was trying to look hot on set pretty much. I don't think he has to try very hard. I think he's fucking killing it right now. He's just killing it right now. I post that picture my dad getting arrested because he hit too many balls into the 18th hole.

My dad's got a cigar in his hand. His eyes are half open and he's fucking hanging out of the golf cart. Oh my God. What a gong show those guys are. Just an absolute circus. Myrtle Beach. Is there a better place to go on a golf trip? with your buddies than Myrtle Beach.

The answer is absolutely no. It was voted the top buddies trip golf destination that there is Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. It's the Gulf capital of the world. If you like to golf, you like having a good time with your pals. If you like making memories that will last a lifetime, then you have to go to Myrtle Beach. We were just talking about how great that part of the country is

when we were down there earlier. I guess it was last week filming a few things. It's just a gorgeous part of the country, the Carolinas in general, in Myrtle Beach, which we've been to a half, a handful of times now, I guess, in the last couple of years, is just delightful. It's got everything that you possibly could want and need.

They've got go-carts. They've got restaurants that are on the beach. They got villas that you can get that, or either on a golf course or on the beach. You can wake up, looking at the sun come up, the ocean, the whole deal. And you can only really get that in Myrtle Beach. That's why it's the best buddies golf trip destination in the country, fellas. It's amazing. Nothing better in the ocean and nothing better than,

golf. I mean, those are the two things. Those are my two tops, like seeing the ocean from a hotel or a house or an Airbnb or any of that. And being able to go out and golf in the same location is, man, bury me there. So Myrtle Beach has it all. It's amazing. They got the restaurants, the bars, the nightlife. And then just, like you said, just golf courses for every single type of person. I'm picturing the type of buddy's trip I could bring to Myrtle Beach and it would make every single person that I bring happy. It's not too intense, but it also has the top 100 type golf courses also for the guys who like to play the harder courses. It's awesome.

Go to Umberto's, the Italian. Um, Berto's was amazing. That's our spot. I still haven't been there yet. I'm going to have to add that to the list. I was hearing some guys yesterday at Colonial. We're talking about playing true blue and how fantastic that golf course is and how it just reminded them of tobacco road, except, uh, it was a little bit less sand than a little bit more

water and just absolutely studying. So they got all kinds of options down there. Dan will be joining 3,300 other golfers, by the way, from every state and from every state and more than 15 countries in the world am and try to become world champion. If you're a golf nut, this is an event you must be at. You can stay tuned for an upcoming video featuring Dan's journey to become a world champ. That's right, Dan Ratport, World Champ. Visit Myrtle Beach.

We highly recommend it. Play golf. Myrtle Beach is giving away a golf trip for you and three buddies. You go to www.4playmerdlebeach.com. Go to that link right now. enter to win a three-day three-round golf trip to Myrtle Beach. We'll be announcing the winner of the Myrtle Beach golf trip in September. So if you haven't entered yet, you better get on it right now.

That's Foreplaymerdlebeach.com. Enter to win a three-day, three-round golf trip to Myrtle Beach. Shout out to the BMW championship. The crowds out there. I, you know, tune in Sunday to the whole scene of Chicago, that back-9 closing stretch. There's that like amphitheater around. I feel like it's like 16 or something where they are. It's just they were doing these drone shots and panning around.

And it looked like chaos there in a really good way. It reminded me a little bit of Keowah Island when filled one. Some of those like that was right when we came out of COVID. And that whole scene around 18 and 17 as the crowds were kind of converging on the only groups that were left out there. Chicago showed up in an amazing way. You don't get that every week. Memphis felt like again was drained. People were too hot.

Lucas Glover in the pants. And he's every hole. He's putting his whole body. It felt like in the ice cooler because he's, he's dying and that this trains the energy, whatever. Fans were turning up in Chicago. I know Max Homa got into it with one, which you're going to get that a little bit. I like that he went back and forth with him, basically called him a loser.

Fine. But generally, I thought the Chicago fan showed up. So that was very cool to see. And then we'll have the finale event this week and then right into Rider Cup stuff. Yeah, which we'll break down a ton of that next week. Everybody has been a lot of conjecture and the whole deal. We'll know who's on the team. We'll have Ryder Cup gear out.

We'll kind of ramp all that shit up. but only got four Barstool Classics left. We've done 21 so far this year. I think we're only in Connecticut, Philly, West Virginia, and Charlotte. And then after that, we got a couple months off, and we got the Barstool Classic Championship at Greyhawk in early December. We've got a couple trips coming up in a few weeks now. It feels like, yeah, less than a month.

We're going to be all over Sand Valley. We're going to be all over Wisconsin, checking out the Wisconsin golf scene. We dabbled a little bit. We've all dabbled a little bit in some trips we've done together. We were up there for the Ryder Cup. We've played Aaron Hills once or twice, some of the times together, sometimes on our own, whatever. But we're going to do a full travel series of that Wisconsin area. And yeah, I'm very excited to get those videos cranking and get the whole crew together.

It'll be a lot of fun. There'll be a lot of Ryder Cup lead up during that, too. We'll be able to chit-chat and have our gear in the whole deal. So that's coming. And then other than that, we're sort of like right into. We're getting right into real sports season. Obviously, football is coming back. And I'm a little bit, I was thinking a lot about it this last week.

I'm a little bit bum that I just don't, I don't really know what to do about my football indifference. And I know, like, me and Trent have talked about this quite a bit with different sports teams. Frankie's obviously got the DNA of his sports teams. But like, I really just don't have an NFL team because the St. Louis Rams and Stan Cranky left. I really don't have a college football team because Harvard football is, Harvard football, it's cool when you're there. But they aren't even part of them.

main division and can't really go beyond playing the Harvard Yale game. So it's kind of a bummer for me. I just don't get as hyped up for football as everybody else. And it makes me sad to be honest with you. It's a bummer. I'm actually very jacked up for football this year. Obviously, the Jets have just made waves with the people that they've picked up. I know Alex Bush is sitting behind the ones and two is just shaking his head because he thinks the bills are literally doing that. Literally shaking my head. We have a $100 bet for opening night. It's bills versus jets. I actually just got mad in 24 which I fucking just I get mad in every you see who's on the cover yeah

Josh Allen I think well it's also a curse right I mean no it curse is over yeah but historically historically historically the people on the cover like Tom Brady were on it and they were both their like heads explode the first week because they just been on the madden cover but

yeah no I I'm very excited Hard knocks has made it so much better like so much better to just see like who these guys really are their personalities we obviously love all like the document documentary stuff. I kind of got English on you there.

But yeah, I'm very excited. It sucks that you don't have like a team. Yeah. Your team left you. It's like it's insane. Riggs gone. They're just like the L.A. Rams now. The sad truth Riggs is that we just missed the boat.

Like even if you pick up a team now, I'm 34. You're a little bit older than me. You're not going to have the same fire that a Frankie Borelli has because he's been rooting for him since he was born. So even if we picked up like, I don't know, if I picked up, if I want to be a Cincinnati Bengals fan. Like it wouldn't be, I wouldn't take it that seriously. Like if they lost in the playoffs, I wouldn't be devastated.

It's just like, oh, well, that team that I started rooting for when I was three and a half decades into this life just didn't win. It's not the same. The only thing I have that for is Iowa sports, Iowa football, Iowa basketball. So I'm lucky enough to have that. But professional sports teams, it's, you know, I watch them like I'm Rob Lowe. Right. Yeah.

Very bizarre. You too, you too with these professional sport teams. I mean, Riggs has the fucking blues, but just very, very. bizarre. You guys are not just professional sport teams people. You're just not. And I was, I was early on, like, I was a Cowboys fan early on. I was a Cubs fan early on. And then, but then

as again, as I got older, and we have talked about this before, if you're not from the place where it, where they play, it just feels different. It doesn't feel like, like I never, I wasn't, I wasn't from Chicago. I wasn't from Dallas. I, it just, I would just like those teams because they were good at the time. I have no

real connection to them. Yeah, I do. I mean, how do you say it to like, Frank, the tank likes the dolphins. Yeah, it's fair. It's a fair point. There are exceptions, but I feel like he's liked the dolphins for a very, very long time. Whereas it's at this point, it's like, you're telling me I'm a decade away from truly caring about a team if I pick it now. It's like, well, that, you know, what are we doing?

It's like it doesn't, and you just picked it. Why'd you pick it? You know, you just got to tell people that forever. And then you're trying to psych yourself up. It's just shitty. The closest thing I've heard is like for college football, I'd love to have a college football team is somebody gave me the idea of take a couple credits at ASU so that I could technically claim I went to ASU and then just be a UJSU football fan.

That's not bad. No, and like basketball. I don't know how to cook. I don't know if you can just take like some version of culinary classes at like a college like that and kind of double whammy it where I now can maybe become a little bit of a more of a culinary talent than I am currently by taking a couple of credits. and claiming I went to ASU and then be a huge ASU fan. But other than that, I don't really know what I got.

I, again, I just think it's something we're never going to have. You know, it's sad to say, but the ship has sailed. And, you know, you can gamble on it. That makes it a little bit more, you know, the stakes are a little bit higher. But I'm not a fucking Alex Bush guy. I'm not from fucking Rochester or Buffalo. I just don't have that in my blood. So, yeah, definitely, like, you definitely miss out on like the history of it.

Like your parents, like rooted for the teams. Right. You have all the memories and all that stuff. but I still think you can just like dive in and just be like you'll just dive in without the history of it. Like you could just be that type of fan. And wouldn't it be better to be that type of fan than no fan at all? I don't know. I just take a team and just go all in on them.

Like it's you're just you're basically saying I can't do it because I don't have all the history and I'm not in the town and I'm not like, but then like but you're listening to. And don't have all that. But you're listening to. Not being a fan. I don't know. You're listening to reasons why it's a cool thing. No, but like I still think being a fan is cool. Like that's the part that I think.

think you're just glossing over. I just don't have a fan of a team is cool. Like turning on every Sunday rooting for the same team, even if it's just you and like wanting them to win and like getting invested in the players and the storyline and like after years and years and years, you just become part of that fan base. I think that's like a pretty normal thing. You just happen to not have the history part. But then when you converse with other fans of that team, they'll be like why you become

a fan. You have like your reasoning. Oh, I saw this. I like this. They're going to be like you're a fucking pose. No, I fell in love with this quarterback. This, whatever. It's just that's the, like, I don't.

I don't know. I just have the very romantic reasoning of like, you're an Islanders fan and like the island's on fire when they're in the playoffs and you're in the middle of it. And everyone you talk to is an Islander's fan. And you're like, holy shit, are we going to do it? Are we not going to do it? And you're like, oh, remember this year when that was happening.

Like I'm listing the reasons why I think it's cool. And to not have that makes it like not a worthy endeavor for me. I think it's like a small percentage of people that you're referencing. I don't think so. Fans of people are like, those are people from. that area. No, I know, but like the diehards, I think there's more general fans than you expect. I think there's more people that just show up to like their first ever hockey game and they like fall in love with it and they just become a fan. Like I think that's, I think I'm probably in the minority

of psychopaths that like live and die and like I'm talking to only Islander fans on Tuesday nights. And like I, I, I, out of the hundreds and thousands of fans, I think I might be like one of like the psychos that like there's probably like 15,000 of me. that are like, that's all they do is talk about it. You're definitely on the crazier end of it, but I do think people who are fans of teams skew further to your side than they do to my side. They watch all the games.

They keep up with them. They keep up with the like, I think you guys can be fans of teams. We're, we're not saying we can, but it won't, it won't be the same. Like, you know, and that is the fun part of it. That's the part I'm missing.

It's not like I'm missing just something to do for three or four hours a couple days a week. It's that I like, in missing that. that fire, that caring about every decision that they make and who's looking healthy. Right. They're being ranked properly and preseason stuff. And like I, you can't really, I don't know how much you can really fabricate that.

And that is the fun part. That is the exciting part. But you live in Arizona. You could just become a Cardinals fan. Like you would be conversing with Cardinals fans. People move to states and become fans of those teams all the time. Like a lot of people do that. A majority of their fans probably do that.

God, I needed you to channel some of your fire into me so that I can make that happen. Like a majority of the people in Arizona, like, not a majority, but a big chunk of people probably did that. They probably moved there from like, who knows, like Iowa or Colorado and they're just like fucking, they just moved down to somewhere that was warmer and now they have a football team there. They have the Super Bowl there like twice in the last 10 years. Fucking places lit on fire with football. They got big college football.

I mean, come on. Like there's no reason why you can't just like, like, what's your reasoning for being a Cardo's saying? Oh, I live here. Okay. It might be as easy as me. I need to just buy a cool hat. I think if I can just find a cool Arizona Cardinals hat.

I might change the whole thing. I might just be in. I'm going to wear this hat all the time. You're in the brotherhood. You're walking around town with it. People are like, what's up? You're like, you know. Imagine,

you'd imagine Riggs just buying a crisp new Arizona Cardinals hat and just wandering around down looking for people to talk to about this upcoming season. Who wants to talk about a little bit? Yeah. That's what you couldn't. You just need to. start asking questions like, what do I do? How do I become an Arizona Cardinals fan while you're wearing an Arizona Cardinals

hat? Just I'm closer. Tyler Murray T-shirt. In the beginning of this conversation. I'm closer now than I was earlier. For sure. For sure. That's good.

All right. I know you guys got Billy Walters coming up. I feel like we've already spoken for like an hour or so. I don't know that we really need much more. Anybody got anything that I left off? I think I'm off. I got to go to pup punk practice. So I can't talk to like the most incredible story of all of golf of the

year I have to go to play the drums in New York City with Rhone, Robbie Fox and Caroline and Nick Hamilton. So that's what I've got on deck for me. I'm going to miss the Walters interview. Dan will handle. I got nothing else though. Dan Rapport will handle it. He's made for this, I feel like. Very much so. I think. Mike Francesa was in the office yesterday. That killed me that we weren't there. I was jealous about that. That's another thing where I didn't know about Mike Francesa until I started really following KFC because he's a huge Francesa guy. Francesa obviously had Mike and the Mad Dog and that's a very famous sports talk radio show, maybe the most famous one.

But I didn't, that felt like a very, Matt Dog sports radio 66 WFAN. Mike's on. He's ready to go on the fan. New York sports radio. Mike's on. Mike's on.

Dude, there was nothing better in the world than when. When Mike and the Mad Dog came on, me and my dad would rush into the car and we would listen to the Mad Dog's opening. He still does it on Mad Dog radio, but he would go go. It would be the best fucking way. I would listen to it on my way to school. I fucking loved that shit. Oh, my God. I absolutely loved when he came on.

Oh, I love the. I might like Mad Dog as much as I like Francesa. I swear to God, I think he's hilarious. He says Tuesday instead of Wednesday instead of Tuesday. And I got Tuesday and Wednesday. We ran into him at Bethpage, like, by the chipping area. And I, again, it wasn't as big of a moment for me because it feels like a very New York thing. And I, because I just, as a kid, I never listened to them.

But I could tell when I met Mad Dog Russo with Frankie, Frankie, like, couldn't speak. He was so nervous. Oh, my God, dude. I could not speak. I was shaking. And he, like, was asking me questions. He's like, so, like, we were watching John Rom Chipp and Bryson. on the range and he's asking me like what do you think about this guy i'm like holy shit it's mad dog it's

chris russo are you fucking kidding me oh my god i love this shit i get too fired up about everything that's great that's good quality to have that's what's great it's way more interesting than fucking being boring about everything come on that's who you are yeah we are so your dad too your dad was getting fired up about everything i saw yes it's great oh my god he loved everything um all right well let's throw it to billy walters then who's i can only i'm this is one i'm very, very excited to listen to myself. Fantastic tidbits. Some of the excerpts that have come out in last few weeks are as juicy as it gets.

Enjoy the Torch Championship, everybody. Go grab our gear if you're there. And then we'll have a big Rider Cup unveiling at the captain's picks, merchandise, and kind of set our sights on the biggest event, really in golf outside of the Masters tournament, I'd say, which is the Rider Cup. We'll get all that going next week. So enjoy your weekend. Enjoy this interview and hit it hard.

Hit it hard. Hit it hard. A lot of sports talk. on this very show events. We're talking Ryder Cup, East Lake. We're talking about football coming back, hockey, baseball, anything. You know what sports are. You've been to sports games before you've been to events.

There's really nothing cooler. Game time is the best way to do it. Trust us. Go download that app right now. Download it or go to the website into your email. Just redeem code F-O-R-E. You get $20 off your first purchase terms to apply. But this is the exclusive ticketing partner of Barstle Sports,

created by fans, four fans. Game Time makes it. an incredibly easy two taps 10 seconds best deals game time's a no brainer ladies and gentlemen i actually screwed up recently uh this last weekend the lumeniers were at jones beach and i didn't realize it until the next day they were there friday and i realized it saturday if i had just gone on game time like i should have done and like everyone else should do i would have seen the lumeniers at jones beach never been at jones beach before it's like 25 minutes from my apartment i love the Lumaneers. It was all right in front of me, except I checked one day too late. So if you're,

if you're listening to this, do not be like me. Check game time right now. Check game time every day. So you do not miss the opportunity of a lifetime. Do not let it pass you by. Check game time. Go to a concert. Go to a sports game. Just get out there because I have huge regrets. You know who's coming to town in the little small venue in Westbury is Lee Bryce. I got a text from Lee Bryce's people in October. They're going to be coming in here for two shows, I believe. back-to-back nights. So hopefully play some golf with that career. We love Donnie,

obviously the drummer and Philip, his tour manager. So I'm definitely going to be hopping on game time for that because I just love Lee Bryce in a small setting like that where he just, he's got such a good voice. And there's a rumor going around. There's a rumor going around. Oh my God,

dude. And Donnie's like the greatest drummer alive right now. I mean, and he's just playing in Lee Bryce's band. The guy won a druming competition, a national drum competition. when he was growing up. So yeah, very, very fun. Dude, last time I went to their show, Donnie tossed me his drumstick mid

drum soul. I had to catch it and throw it back and then he hit the final beat. So I can't wait to do that shit again. I'm giddy just thinking about them coming back to NYCB. Oh my God, so much pressure. And this year I think we're going to, I'm going to ask them if we can push it back a little. I want to be in the seats. I want to be in the seats. I'm getting a little cocky. I am. I'm getting a little cocky. I think we can do it. I can catch a drumstick. My hands are always on a drumstick. I like holding a pole, you know. Two taps, 10 seconds.

That's what it takes. Download the GameTime app. Go to the website, into your email, redeem code 4-F-O-R-E for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Okay, I am excited for this interview. We've got Billy Walters on the show, who is the author of Gambler,

Secrets of a Life at Risk, a story about his life, which is a very, very interesting, unusual life. Billy's one of the bigger sports gamblers in the world, famous now for the relationship with Phil Mickelson. And there's a lot of stuff in there about Phil and their relationship, but also just about Billy's life in general. You guys saw the excerpt probably that said that Phil tried to bet on the Ryder Cup

and that he lost $100 million, not $40 million. That's what Billy claims after talking to some. people who house some of his bets. So we're going to get into all of that. Billy, thanks for joining us. Well, it's nice to meet you. I haven't. I read some of your stuff, but I'm never had a pleasure meeting you. Yeah, well, it's nice to meet you as well, and I appreciate you doing this. You know, I know, obviously it's a, it's been a whirlwind couple of days for you. But I think, you know, a lot of people of our listeners won't know your whole story. So I want to, I want to get into, obviously, the Phil Nicholson stuff is what's been, you know, in the news recently. But I want to tell the

entire story because I think it's a very interesting one to tell. So I guess my first question for you would be, how would you describe what your profession was back in those days, you know, before all the legal troubles? Well, my professional was. Yeah, like, if someone asked you on the street, what would what do you do? What would your answer be? Well, I owned and operated, I had seven golf courses in Las Vegas at one time. I had 22 automobile dealerships. I battled the sports professionally and I invested in the stock market and I had some other passive investments but generally I would describe myself as a risk taker I took risk in a lot of different periods and that generally I would describe myself as a businessman as a risk taker because all those

things as you know dad they have risk attached to it and how did that manifest itself when when you were young like you know were you always kind of the gambling type were you always trying to start businesses and kind of be one of those self-starting entrepreneurs? Well, ready, dad, my father passed away when I was here and a half-all, and my mother left, and I was raised by grandmother, which ended up being a blessing. My grandmother worked a couple of jobs, and she was a great role model for me. I learned, you know, the things I learned from her were mutual respect for other people, a work ethic, what a commitment meant.

And actually, my grandmother took me down on a small bank and a little rural town of Kentucky, I lived at seven years old. And I wanted to buy a power lawnmower to cut grass with. And she took me out of this bag and met with a banker. His name was Colonel Luther Cole. And she put me through the dog and pony show like I was getting the loan. It was already arranged. And I borrowed $40.00. And I went and bought a puffy power lawnmower to Western Auto store. And I started oil grass. I did that for two years. I was 50% of money went back. back I'll repay the loan. She took me down the same back when I was nine years old and I borrowed $90 and I got the morning and afternoon paper out, the career journal, Louisville Times I delivered

those the morning and the afternoon when I got out of school. So that's really when I got my introduction to being a young businessman, so to speak, and, and, you know, having her as a role model and essentially the way I was raised up, I had a lot of motivation, personally also to, to be successful. So I think it was a combination of those things, having a great role model, and being introduced to responsibility and commitment and things like that at such an early age. When did you first meet Phil Mickelson? And how did that happen? I met Phil McKleson in 2006. I was playing in the Pro Am at AT&T, Pebble Beach. I made the cut. It was on a Sunday. I was playing with Frederick Yaukerson. He was playing with

Steve Limeson for a motor company. We happened to be paired together. And of course, I knew he was. I didn't, I wasn't sure he knew who I was, but it became very apparently he knew who I was the entire round. Only, the only thing we discussed was sports. It was a fun round of golf, and that was my first time meeting him. I didn't see him again until 2008. I was invited to play in the pro-out at the Wachovia Championship, Waukew at the Banker. So you were involved in the golf circles even until then. You were playing pro-ams.

You kind of, you guys have mutual friends. Well, I got in the golf business, Dan, in 1989. I bought my first golf force at Abercricket, New Mexico. And I had one there. I had one in Arizona, three in Chicago. I built seven in Las Vegas. Over the years, golf has really been my only hobby. And I know a lot of people in the golf business.

And almost every friend I have is either came through directly or indirectly through golf. So, yes, I'm very familiar with golf, the people who are in. in it. So it's, well, we do a lot of people in common, yes. So in 2008, when you guys first start your relationship, what is your, you know, you said you've done all these different things. How are you spending your time? Was it primarily gambling at that point? Were you still owning and operating the golf courses? Or how did this kind of relationship, business partnership, take off? Well, I was still doing all the things I described to you, or had got, you know, but what happened, Dan, is I've won hundreds of millions of dollars, but in those sports.

As a result, a lot of workers give me very small limits or didn't want my business. So I had business partnerships with people all around the world. And if someone was a partner that was acceptable to me and they had accounts that I didn't have or they could range for higher limits and I could get, I would have, you know, I would enter into a partnership with them. And really, Dan, that's what our relationship was. Nothing more, nothing less than a partnership, business partnership, but he knows. sports. That's how it began. That partnership lasted five years, or a friendship

lasted for eight years, at least what I thought was a friendship. I consider it failed to be a friend, not an acquaintance, and I better out of all that to understand the difference between friends and acquaintances, at least I thought I had. And that was our relationship, nothing more or less. There's two chapters in a book of 28 chapters, and the only reason he's in the book, it's not because of our gambling relationship. That has nothing to do with it. He's in the book, because Dan, I later on got involved in a legal case, and Phil was in that case, and in my opinion, he could have came forward and testified on my behalf, done nothing to tell the truth, and I don't think I would have ever gone to prison.

And in this trial that I was in, I didn't testify myself, my lawyers thought we had the case one, it was a mistake, but Phil could have came forward and testified, and I don't think I would ever go to prison. While I was in prison, my daughter committed suicide. No, I can never forgive him for that. On top of that, as soon as I had a problem, he issued a statement, distanced himself from me. The entire time I was in prison, I never heard a word from it.

When my daughter died, I never heard a word from it. When I got out of prison, I was at a club that were both members of. And I was going to play golf, and I was on a rage warming up, and I was walking off. And he walked up to me with that big TV smile, and he said, oh, it's so great to see you. And I'm glad to see you back playing golf again. and we had a few words and I left. So, bottom of mind is, the story with Phil McElm Eccleson and Bill Walters, from my perspective,

is when it was time for him to do the right thing and be a stand-up guy for a friend, he didn't do it. And that's the story, nothing more, nothing less, all the details about our gambling relationships and the book. And again, my primary reason for writing the book was to share my background with addiction, challenges I've had in my life, with sports betting, being legalized today in the majority of the states, I see all these people getting involved in betting on sports, golf, football, whatever they're getting involved with. I see a lot of things that I face as a young man as someone who started gambling. And I wrote the master class. It's a encyclopedia on basically out to handicap sports, a betting strategy, and a money management

system. Because I could see all these people getting involved in sports today. And they really got basically no chance the way the majority of them are doing it. You know, they have one count with one place. They don't shop around. They don't get the best prices. They have no idea what odds are laying. Most people are betting on the pretester to lend $11 with $10. Many of these bets you're laying $1.25, $1.30, $1.35.

So in my book, I've included charts in there that explains, you know, if you're going to buy a half a point, what the fair price is to pay, I put in there our money lines compare to point spreads. I put a betting strategy in there. With those basic things, a better's got a fighting chance. The way it is today, the majority, the majority, the way the majority of these people won them,

they got no chance. I guess just to ask a more focused version of the question, when did the, when did the relationship expand from being just about sports and that, and that arena to, you know, investing on, in other things? Well, he and I played golf together a number of times.

and again, I felt like we'd become friends. We'd play golf one day, and after we played golf, we had lunch, and he asked me a casual question. He knew I invested in the stock market, and he knew I was a substantial investor, and it had been successful. So he asked me, he said, you know, which are the two stocks that you have you like the best? And I'd all the stock off and old for 10 years, and this stock was going through a breakup of the company, I believe they were. stock was extraordinarily cheap, and I thought it was one of these rare situations you see in the stock market. You can't lose any money. You're going to make money regardless of just how much.

I shared my input on both stocks. Admiral Pharmaceuticals was one of San Diego pharmaceuticals. And the other one's Dean Foods. And Phil went home and I was stock in Dean Foods, and sold the stock four or five weeks later, made some money on it. And, but that it came up in an innocent conversation over lunch after golf. They just, you know, like two people were sitting there and he casually asked me out of the stocks you owe, which are the two you like the best? So to make it clear with the gambling, you were making the decisions as though what teams were being, where you were taking? It was basically he was just giving you money and he would, you guys would kind of split the profits.

He put up half the money. I put up half the money. But yes, Dad, I made all the decisions. Yes, that's a good. So when you read that he lost $100 million, was that you losing the $100 million? Or was that him, you know what I'm saying? Because you're saying that you made the decisions

and you were making all this money, but how did he then lose all this money? Well, Dan, the benefit of partnership you and I had, he made money, I made money. It was very profitable. The money he lost, he lost all that money, but lonely's all. After I decided to write this book,

I met two other fellows who are very credible, that I knowed in the book, who he began with them in 1995, he started Betty. They had every bit of the detailed records. When did he start with you, 2006, 2007? He started me in 2008. Remember, I told you, I met him at Wachovia. We started our partnership shortly thereafter. But I met these other fellows.

He'd been back, well, since 95. I was unaware that at the time we developed a partnership. If I'd have known it, I would have never gone into a partnership. Right, because that's, that's, you don't want, you don't want multiple, guy getting advice for multiple places on telling you, that's kind of dishonest in and of itself, is it not? Well, in our relationship, I was supposed to do all the picking.

He was supposed to bet anyone. He wasn't supposed to tell anyone who we were betting on. And unfortunately, we had an issue with them violating that during the partnership, too. But I was unaware that he was betting these people until, again, later on after I'd gotten out of prison,

and I decided to write these books. These two guys came forward, and they'd heard I was writing this book, and they wanted to share this information with me. Armagh Catan is a gentleman who helped me write this book. I know, Armin. He's an incredible, incredible journalist. And he's an incredible investigative report. So when these fellows came forward, I turned them over to Armin,

and Armin vetted them every way you could be vetted, verified everything they told us multiple people. and Simon Shuster lawyers were verified it. They turned over documents of every bet the dates, the times, the wins, the losses, the entire thing. So they had complete detailed records, and

I had complete detailed records from our five years of partnership, too. I have to keep detailed records on every count that I have. The same thing, who I bet the time, the date went, a loss. So you have to keep those for taxes. So the records are all 100% documented detail records. These aren't,

this isn't something that he said, Jesus. So what you guys were doing was legal, you're saying. What he had I were doing was was 100% legal. I'm not sure what he was doing with the other people were legal, but I'm 100% sure. So under the laws, you could, you could enter into an agreement where a guy was gambling on your behalf legally? 100% sure. There's no law that you can't be partners gambling. Okay. Yeah, I just didn't know. I mean, well, I'm very familiar with the law is damn because that's one of the things I'm excited about the day to see legalized sports betty. You know, I first lived to Las Vegas. in the early 80s and I put together a group of organized betters.

I was indicted four different times, Dan, for betting on sports because law enforcement didn't understand the difference. I was exonerated in every case, but now to see that sports gambling is legalized the majority of the states, it's a dream code truth for me. Someone can make a battle or a sporting event without being unfairly judged that you're a criminal or you're doing something illegal. Two days episode, two days episode, two days episode, two days episode, two days episode is brought to you by Whoop, the official fitness wearable of the PGA and LPGA tours.

I had an iconic night last night. It says here I got 10 hours and 26 minutes of sleep. I was an exhausted person. I needed it. It says to it tells you on Woop the amount of sleep needed for you. My sleep needed, which is usually not crazy high, was eight hours and 56 minutes. That's how much I was in the hole. when it comes to how much sleep I needed.

And I got 10 hours and 26 minutes. I legitimately, I think I fell asleep before 7 p.m. I ordered Chipotle last night and I just laid in bed. And I didn't, I mean, I got up a few times to take a quick tinkle, probably a couple because I was pounding water. But I woke up at like, this thing says I woke up at 8 a.m. And I, brother, that's a coma. You were in a coma. 10 hours?

I was out. unbelievable. And I got a new color on my wop band. I like that. Yeah. It was black forever and I just, I just thought I needed like a switchout, you know, and it's, it looks so different. Like I looked down and I feel like I have something, I got something like, like, um, like fashionable on as opposed to like, you know, as opposed to just being about where, like tracking your fitness. I think it looks good. I need a new one too. I got roasted. I put up something last week and my band was quite dirty. And so I did wash it and I gave it a nice,

a nice washing. But I think I need a new one in general. I've had it for like two years. It gets sweat on. I wear it all time. So I probably need a new one. But 94% recovery for me. HRV was 67.

It could be a little higher, but it's, you know, it takes a few days to get to that point. Resting heart rate 56 last night. Not bad. The point is, whoop, you optimize your body, use data for everything we talk about it, whether it's your profession, whether you're a golfer, and you use data to try to optimize.

your stats, money ball, the whole deal. Why would you not use it for your body to optimize your body's performance? Understand when you're actually sleeping, how much deep sleep you're getting, your skin temperature, all kinds of things are tracked by. Woop. So go to join.wop.com slash 4. That's join.wop.com slash 4 to get one month free trial on Woop and unlock the best version of yourself.

That's a one month free trial on Woop at join.wop.com slash four. So you said you had, you know, you've overcome addiction and, but you don't consider gambling to be one of your, like, is it an addiction? You're talking about today? Yeah, today, but in the past, I mean, because Phil's obviously, that's been a big part of Phil's story is saying he had this problem and he couldn't stop. You know, is that, is that something that you experienced in your life at any point? As a young man, when I, when I started gambling, it's all in the book and it's in detail.

That's one of the primary reasons I wrote it for people who are just beginning to best sports. I had others, people who have alcohol addictions or whatever. As a young man, I did have a gambling addiction. Fortunately for me, there were a number of things that took place in my life, and I was able to overcome it and actually become pretty good at gambling. And I had an issue with alcohol that really affected decisions I was making. I was a very young guy. You know, and, you know, the old gambler's lament, you know,

the bottom of mind is you get to betting. You're betting more money than you can afford. to lose and you've lost more money you afford to lose and you're going to double up and catch up and then then the next thing you tell yourself is okay well when i get even i'm going to quit well that doesn't happen and and that anytime you have anything in your life dan in my opinion you don't have control of it you have an addiction and uh i didn't have a control complete control of it when i was younger uh i have total control over today i mean you know it's pretty obvious i made owners me as a dollar is betting on sports. So if that is an addiction, you'd probably like to have it.

I would like to have it if you want to pass over. I will definitely be a willing receptor. Do you think that they had it out for you because of your gambling winnings? Is that possible? Dan, I think originally I was misunderstood. When I went to Las Vegas in 1982, there wasn't any such thing as organized betters. The only people that were organized and making a lot of money were organized bookmakers who were affiliated with organized crime. While I went there, I think people, I think law enforcement originally mistook me and they thought I was a bookmaker and affiliated with organized crime. That was the first case that came up.

We went to trial in 1992. It's a famous computer case in Las Vegas. We were exonerated. But I think the original part of it was basically just misunderstanding. The unfortunate part of it was after they knew the facts, they still didn't back off. like they had to justify, I guess, what they had done. But anyway, and then after that, I was indicted three times in Nevada court for the same thing, betting on sports related. And I went to court the judge threw them out all three times. Some of that was a little bit of political, too.

I'd supported the attorney general's opponent in the election. At least you're upfront about it. Well, again, if you read the book, Dan, one thing you're going to see, it's not a vanity book. it's everything that's in the book you'll and if anyone who reads this book you're going to come to a conclusion to hurry whether I'm a credible personal or whether I'm not and that'll be for you to decide but when you read the book I think you're going to find out in that book what people already know know me I'm a very straight forward guy right the book is gambler's secrets from a life at risk Billy um did you get the sense when you were working with Phil that he did have an addiction problem with gambling look Phil

is an action man. I mean, all you got to do is watch him play golf. I mean, here's a guy that's, he's not looking to come in second on a golf tournament. He's looking, he's trying any kind of shot in the world to win the golf tournament. Phil is a very aggressive guy in a lot of ways. There's a lot of athletes are. But he's one of the more aggressive ones I've remembered about life. Now, you know, here's a, to me, gambling is all relative to hand. Here's a guy who's made in excess of a billion dollars. He just came out and gave a public statement. In fact, it's true. He's almost worth billion dollars now. So the amount of money he lost and in comparison the amount of money you earn, you know, I really don't think it's all that big a deal. Now, 100 million dollars

is a lot of money if you don't, you know, to someone who's never going to have a hundred million dollars, but if you've got an excess of a billion dollars, you've made an excessive, looks like to me, whatever money you lost, I don't think it's changed his lifestyle. And it looks like to me, fills it up pretty good. So you don't subscribe to the notion that he went to Saudis because he had all these gambling debts. You think Phil's had enough money in the entire time? I think if you look back at Phil's entire career, whether it be the PGA tour or whether it's been the Saudis, I think Phil has been extremely aggressive when it comes to making money, whether

it be doing endorsements or whatever he does. I think the people that manage his career and Phil himself, I think he's been motivated to make money. I think, frankly, he was, you know, although he won the PGA, I think, you know, you know, his career is in the better part of it's behind him. And I think he probably saw an opportunity to make a lot of money. What his motivation was, financially, I can't speak to that. But I think he saw an opportunity to make a whole lot of money,

and I think he took advantage of it. But I don't know whether he did it because he has a financial problem or whether it does. He certainly doesn't appear to me as a financial problem. Right. So this is interesting because I think a lot of people, when they saw the excerpt that came out on the Firepac Collective, and they saw all these numbers, you know, they thought that you were trying to shine a light on, oh, this guy has lost more than you would believe. And it's, it's taken, you know, a big chunk out of his life.

And it's been this whole problem. But that's probably because it's taken out of context. And you're saying in the book, it's more a sense of this is what happened. The guy had a lot of money and he bet a lot of money and he lost a lot of money, but he still has a lot of money. So it's not like you're trying to impugn him or or his, you know, gambling habits. It was more just, this is what happened in my years with Phil Mickelson. Dad, if anybody reads a book and they read the chapter involving myself, if you're going to see, all I put in the book was what the bare minimum money put it in there to explain our relationship to explain essentially the insider trading charge in New York.

Nothing more, nothing less. I put nothing in the book about Phil's personal life. I think if anyone reads the book, you're going to see that I took about a higher road as anybody could possibly take. Yeah. You haven't heard from Phil, I'm guessing, since when? Well, the last time I saw him was when I was at our club, and I was warming up to go play golf. I was walking off the race. He walked up to me out of the curb blue sky. He gave me the big TV, Phil smile and told me how great it was to see me home,

playing golf again. Prior to that, I hadn't heard from him until before I went to prison. What were your, what was your emotions when he came up to you? Because you obviously have very complicated feelings. I'm sure there are a lot of good memories. You have good memories with Phil as well? I had a lot of thought with Phil over the years. Like I said, I thought we were friends. That's probably what's hurt me and disappointing me more than anything that basically I always kind of proud of myself to be a really good judge of character. And then clearly, I guess I'm not guess I wasn't. And the fact that he walked up to me with, he said, I'm so glad you're back whole. He walked up with some kind of a genuine apology with, you know,

know, something that made some kind of sense and over the conversation that way, you know, I don't know if I could ever forgive him or not, but whatever chance there was when he come up with that BS, big smile on his face like he's, you know, selling a product. And he said, it's so glad to see me home. You know, bottom line is, it's real essential.

I misread the man. He's not the guy you see on TV from my perspective anyway. What was your take or thoughts? on the statement he released in response to the excerpt where he denied betting on the Ryder Cup and then basically said, you know, we've gone over this. I've told you guys all about my gambling habits. Well, the only I can respond to, I don't know about his gambling habits. I'm like a little comment on that one way or the other. But the statement he released, I like the statement. He confirmed what I said. What I said in the book, and unfortunately it's been misreported by a few

people. But I think the majority of them see it's about as clear as it be. I never said he bet on the rider cup. What I said was Dan, he tried to bet on the rider cup. I don't see one word in his statement denying and he tried to bet on the rider cup, not one. Right. All he said is I didn't bet on the rider cup. That's correct. And that's all I've ever said. See, I never said he bet on the rider cup day. And that's pretty apparent. And if anyone reads his statement and read, you know, what I say in my book, we're saying the same thing. We're not saying anything. It's different. it's a same thing. Why do you think Phil refused to testify on your behalf?

Do you think it was because he just said, oh, this could possibly inconvenience me? Do you think there could have been actual legal ramifications for him had he done it? Well, Phil was involved in another case, other than my case. He was involved in a money-in-under case with two other gentlemen. One of them was a guy named Greg Silvera. They'd borrowed $2.8 million to, and Greg Silverer agreed to do it as a favor to him. and he wired that money to him for Greg to forward the money on to an offshore woodmaker in pay. And as a result, Rick Silvera went to present for money loan.

Phil got dropped out of that case as he got dropped out of the case with me in the Southern District of New York. So I don't know why he didn't testify. My only speculation he could be is, okay, if he came and testified, you know, the first question somebody's going to ask, well, if he never gave you any inside of probation, why did you give him a? $10 back. See, when they issued that press release, and I go into all the details in the book what took place, when they issued that press release, they created a perception out there that I was guilty. If you're in the public and you see a guy give a million dollars back in a stock transaction, my thought immediately would be, well, he's an innocent victim, or he was guilty and he bought

his way out. But regardless, the other guy, I think the guy's got to be guilty. At least that's my first opinion that I would have without knowing all the facts. So, that perception had been created out there. I am giving a million dollars back. The prosecutors were able to basically create this perception with the public that, you know, I was guilty of insider trading. And at the same time, mysteriously, he gets dropped out of this money laundering case that the guy who he wired the money to went to federal president.

So that's the only thing that I can think is, you know, what was his answer going to be? It's why he gave the million dollars back. If you never received insider information, which he told the FBI on two different occasions, okay, and you weren't involved in insider trading, why did you give a million dollars back? So he testified, I'm only assuming he would have been concerned if someone was going to ask you my question. And then it could lead into the Monday laundry case, and he hadn't been going on for a year that didn't involve me that he was going to have to answer some questions about that public. So for people who might not be 100% familiar, can you just explain exactly? what happened with the million dollars being in the press release you alluded to a few things

I know that people are going to read the book but the most of the people who listen to this will not have had a chance to read the book yet well if I you know they're not got it's not going to be a need you read book but keep talking about Phil lexon that if I saw the address is then but the bottom of knowledge is he gave a million dollars back in us in a so-called insider trading case uh he had testified to the FBI two times prior to that that I never gave him any inside information. He had an ongoing money laundering investigation with two other men that had nothing to do with me. That had been going on for a year prior to the money laundering case. He gave the million dollars back. The prosecutors issued a press, they had a press conference and issued a statement.

And they show Phil McElson giving this million dollars back in this insider trading investigation. The average person looks at that. Most people are going to come to. you know, they're going to think, well, why did he give the million dollars back if he wasn't guilty or he bought his way out? Regardless, it makes me, Billy Walters, look guilty to the public. And the only person who can straighten that out is Phil Mickelson coming forward and testify. Okay, he didn't come forward and testify. As a result, I think that's the reason I went to president. When you ask me why he didn't, my answer to you was, I think it's because of the legal case

that he had involving the money laundering, that he didn't want to answer questions about that. So, you know, right. That's all I can tell you about Phil Meckleson. If you want the details of it, you're going to need your book. Yeah, and everyone should go read the book. Since you've been out, how are you using your, you know, you're one of the best sports gamblers of all time by any metric. But it's complicated now because there's so many algorithms.

Everyone's got a model. How are you using your expertise to help the general public navigate this new world? Well, I wrote the book as I explained to you. then for first of all, I won 36 years in a row. The only reason I stopped when is I went to prison, and I'm back playing again, and I'm as confident as I am, I'm looking new that I'm going to win. But again, I had 25 of the best handicappers in the entire world working for me. I spent millions of millions of dollars every year in research and development in order to stay

of the game, and I've been able to do that, and I'm going to continue to be able to do that. I'm not at least concerned with that. But as I shared with you earlier, the average, better. The person who's coming on new to sports today, they literally have no chance to win in most cases. And the reason is a lot of these people are signed up with one sports board. Okay, they need to get as many sports books as they can to swap around and get the best price. In my book, I have put a basic, a betting, a basic betting strategy in there that explains to him how to bet and how to get the best prices. I've also put a money management system in there for them. For them,

to bet, you know, responsibly, you know, explain it to them. Don't go bet with your emotions. Don't do stupid things like that. If you follow just the basic strategy that I've got in my book, you got a fighting chance to win. The way it is right now, you know, if you're playing parlayers and you're laying a $1.25 or $1.30, you've got no chance in the world win. Most people bet on sports under the pretest if they think they're laying $11 to $10. and they are on a straight bet.

These exotic bets, you're laying a dollar 25, a dollar 30, $1.35, you got no chance. So you're saying that the three-team parlay is not generally not a good idea? I mean, some suckers bet, a complete suckers bet. I mean, with the current odds. Now, what's happened, Dan, over the years, there used to be thousands of bookmakers. You have a small number of bookmakers at the day, and as a result, what you've basically done is almost create a monopoly. And monopolies are only good for the people who have the monopoly. And what they've done, they've increased.

the odds on parleyes and tea. And now instead of being 11 to 10, they're, you know, they're $1.25, they're $1.30. And again, the average better, they don't know that. They think they're laying 11 to 10. It's like they think they're laying on owner of the bat. That's the reason I put all this information in my book. So you'll know what you're doing. And if you want to go lay $1.25 and $1.30 and give you money, we go ahead and do it. But at least you'll know what you're doing. If you want to buy half a point, I put a, you know, I put, you know, I put, all the information in there on buying a half points, the fair price to pay.

If it's more than that, don't buy it. If it's that price or below and you want to buy an F point, buy it. How does a money line for car to point spread? I put every one of those comparisons in there. And I said, my concern is the average better. Now, I've got a really sophisticated other version in there for the pros of the pros, and there's things in there for them also, and there's something in there for everyone to learn.

But primarily it's for the beginning and the average sports better. And then my last question, just on a personal level, can you still watch sports and enjoy it for what it is? Like, do you have favorite teams? I feel like if you're gambling that much for that long, you're probably viewing it more as a business than anything. Well, it's 100% of a business to me, Dan. And my favorite teams, whoever I bet. Now, you know, from the fan standpoint, Kentucky Wildcats are my favorite college. I'm from Kentucky.

my wife from Kentucky, the Las Vegas Raiders or my favorite football team. I bet against either one of them, the price is right, as a business, like you say. But I have favorite teams. I just don't bet on favorite teams because of my favorite teams. I only bet on, you know, I'm looking to make sound, thought-out decisions, and that's where the business aspects of it come in. I understand people betting on our favorite teams. Sports is a lot of fun, and I encourage it if you do it,

and you bet within your means and, you know, you look at it as an entertainment and say, you know, I'm probably not going to get rich here doing this, but it's fun to me. I encourage it all day long. I just, you know, just don't get in there think you're going to get rich overnight because if you do, you can get hurt. I noticed, you know, a little bit of pushback when I, you know, I was asking a lot of Phil Mickelson questions. And I think it's, you know, it's interesting to me. Are you surprised by how much everyone wants to talk about Phil? You have to have known that, you know, writing this book, that was going to be a piece that was going to get at least the most media attention. Well, I'm not surprised the people want to know about Phil. Phil's a very famous

guy. He's one of greatest players that's ever lived. He's certainly the greatest left-handed players ever lived. You know, I guess he's kind of, you know, pretty controversial guy out there. And, you know, a lot of people are looking for certain things. But if you read the book, you've got to see, I put the bare minimum in there regarding our relationship in order to explain. Right. So how much of the book is that versus just give people an idea. It's like one chapter, right? So how many pages of a how many-page book? Well, there's 28 chapter book.

It's 300 approximately 83 pages. I don't know the exact chapter come, but it's not that big. Again, all it does is explain our personal and business relationship, nothing more or nevertheless. And it explains my trial in New York where I was convicted that I went to prison, his role in that. There's nothing else in there regarding Phil Mickelson. in the story period that's it nothing else in there and you could have included more i'm sure there

you saw a lot of things and that was a decision that you made uh undoubtedly there's no question about that and uh again i'll leave that up to others uh that's that wasn't my goal there my goal was simply explain what our relationship was and how he fit into me going into prison nothing more or and when my daughter died in prison i knew then i had to write this book i had to tell this story and you think yeah you think those two you know it was it was It's brutal for you that experience, I have to imagine. Well, Dan, you know, I think it'd be brutal for anyone. If you got a daughter committed suicide and if you felt like you were outside, it would never happen.

Well, I think it would, it would devastate anyone. And that's, and that's sour, I mean, that's something that's, like you said earlier, it's just unforgivable for you. Yes, that's unforgivable for me, especially, you know, yeah, I can never forget it. Gambler Secrets from a Life at Risk, Billy Walters. We got into a lot of the Phil stuff. There's a lot more in this book as he gets into just a legendary gambler. So definitely check the book out, guys.

Again, it is called Gambler Secrets from a Life at Risk. Thank you so much, Billy. We appreciate it. Thank you, Dan. I enjoyed the visit.