Fore Play - Brandel Chamblee on… everything

Episode Date: February 6, 2020

Analyst Brandel Chamblee checks in with us to talk pretty much everything. We discuss Patrick Reed’s cease & desist letter, Brooks Koepka vs Rory McIlroy, Tiger’s current swing being perhaps his best, the new distance report, Phil’s game and MUCH more!You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. A friend of ours had him on probably a handful of times now, but I think it's been at least a year or so. He is the lead analyst for Golf Channel, one of the best analysts in the game. I got a whole intro here, so wait until you see all this. He is a PGA Tour winner, the Greater Vancouver Open in 1998. Hmm. He is finished.

Oh, now the phone. finished well we're not worried about that he has finished tied for 18th at the 1999 masters never made the cut of the pGA championship which i want to ask you about tied for 44th at the 2001 u.s. open tied for 62nd at the open championship in 2001 pretty good stretch author of the anatomy of greatness which i've read mr brando chamblee welcome to the show my friend yeah those uh last few tournaments are not defunct they're still they're still they're still up and running. And it's always a pleasure to join you guys. Who's there in the studio? We've got myself. Guys, would you like to introduce yourselves? You got Frankie here.

Hey, Brandel. It's Trent. You also got Lurch, who I don't think we've ever met, but good to meet you. Oh, pleasure. My pleasure. Look forward to it. So you were, you were telling us a little bit pre-show that you just came from a little shoot with Rory. I wanted to address Rory because I was just reading this article earlier this week that came out, independent. Paul Kimmage was going to on with Rory, you know, nothing's off limits, an amazing, insightful interview. And he mentioned you, Rory, in this interview. And there are some negative words that you have received before, some positive words. But I thought we would start with some very positive words from Rory.

And what happened was I played a little clip from your guys discussion on live from, or Golf Central or whatever it was right after the Patrick Reed winning the masters a few years ago. and the clip, you essentially go through how this has to be the most disappointed that Rory's been since leaving Augusta in 2011. You talk about amnesia from his first tee shot that day, which if anybody remembers, he hits it a million yards right off the first tee. And you talk about how that had to creep into the rest of his game. And Rory goes on to say, it hurts when you're on the receiving end. And sometimes I think all that stuff hurts. but I think Brando is one of the smartest guys in golf.

He's brilliant. I like him. He's giving me a book on Bobby Locke. I have it here. So what are your thoughts in hearing those kinds of comments from Rory? A, that that type of stuff, you know, it hurts to hear, but also B, that he says you're one of the smartest guys in the game. Yeah, you know, when you sit in a chair where somebody asked you every two minutes,

what do you think, why did he do that? What, you know, what reasons did he, you know, made him win? Why did he lose? Those kind of things. I mean, you have to very often. say critical things of people you really like and admire, and sometimes you have to say very complimentary things about people that you don't particularly care for.

It's just the nature of the job, and also the nature of all of us that I could wax on for an hour about all the great attributes. And the one thing everybody will remember is the one critical comment. It happens all the time. I'll do interviews with people

and go on and on and on about a particular player, for, I don't know, 10 minutes, say. And then I might say one critical thing, and then that'll be the headline in the story or the podcast or whatever. I get it. I totally understand it. But it's just part of the job I have. It's the nature of the job I have that I'm in the analysis business.

And, you know, if you say everything's great, and when something comes along that really is great, well, you've desensitized the whole world. and they're not going to believe you. So, you know, you set up there, at least I do, I sit up there, and I just try to as best I can put shots in historical context. And when they're great, you know, without being hyperbolic, you say they're great. And when they're awful, without being hyperbolic, you say they're awful.

So he goes on to sort of talk about how on the range that day he had a left miss, then he comes out to the first tee and he hits it miles right. Your analysis was obviously that though that shot is clearly he's going to remember that throughout the entire day and affected the rest of his round. How could you tell that that amnesia from that shot from whatever was going on with the swing was affecting the rest of his entire round? It's informed by years and years and years and years of struggling with those issues myself. And then, you know, I mean, we all have those issues. I mean, you hit a horrible shot off the first tee or somewhere in the wrong. round and the rest of the round, in particular when you get to a place where that miss is now

even more vulnerable because of a penalty, then they're going to favor it and predictably miss it the opposite direction, or they're going to make nuanced changes to their golf swing. So, you know, I've spent the last 20 years of my life watching golf the way radiologist looks at x-rays, you know, I'm all in, you know, I'm all eyes, and I'm research every day. detail of it. And, you know, I'd say it's an educated guess, I guess, if you want to, you know, call it what it really was. And Rory may differ with me. I mean, I think later on in that interview, he said he forgot about it and doesn't think about it. And, and again, I say, you know, there is a crucial role of amnesia and the maintenance power of every athlete. You have to be able to

forget. The inability to forget is infinitely more devastating than the inability to remember for an athlete. You've got to be able to forget. Years ago, there was a, people talked about this interview that Jack Nicholas gave, or this speech rather that Jack Nicholas gave, where he said he never missed a putt on the last hole that he needed to make. And a man held his arm up, said, excuse me, Mr. Nicholas, just last week I was watching you in a PGA tour of Champions event, and you had a four-footer on the last hole, and you missed it, and maybe you just kind of forgot that one. And Mr. Nick, you know, Jack says, let me repeat.

I've never missed a put on the last hole of a tournament that I needed to make. And the man in the crowd was incredulous. And later on, he went up and talked to Boba Rottella, this man, and why wouldn't Jack just admit it? And Bob said, well, hold on a second. That's how you think, right? Absolutely. You just got to admit it.

So you're telling the greatest athlete of all time that he should think how you think, and you're far from the greatest athlete of all the time. Or maybe we should just all think like Jack think. And again, that's amnesia. You know, you need to have it. You need to extract all of the good there is to get out of every situation and then forget all the bad. Yeah, I remember one time, one thing you told me was that, you know,

in order to really get to that level where you're, you know, we're obviously talking about some of the best players of all time and Rory, who's going to be the number one right player in the world again here very soon. But like to get to that top level, you basically said, like at some level, you have to just be almost delusional. I mean, you have to have almost a blind, ridiculous, illogical belief in yourself at times that, like, you're perfect and even better than you actually think you are. And if you don't, you just can't make it. Yeah, I mean, the game of golf or sport in general, I mean, you're constantly attacked by the media and fans.

And then you have your own sort of uninvited guests in your head. those little demons that pop up. And you have to lay waste to all of those as best you can. And you can do it through arrogance. You can do it through sort of self-delusion. But, I mean, it's rare that the athlete can get to that place where they need to get through sort of rational. And I think that's one of the things that makes Rory such an appealing superstar

is that he's along the lines of being humble. and yet the right level of arrogance. I mean, that word has a negative connotation to it. But I think... So let's fast forward a couple of years. Roy's game now. He's, I mean, it's kind of insane. It's been since 2014 that he's won a major championship.

He's, of course, had really good years along the way, really good finishes, very consistent golf. Where do you see his game now, and especially his putting? I know you've done a ton of research on putting and feel versus technical and all that. Rory's biggest struggle has been the putting. What are you general thoughts on Rory's game going to this year and especially his putting? Yeah,

well, I think he made changes in the way he prepares and works out, and that has allowed his body to move better. Still got the full range of motion and a lot of speed. I think had to go there with the working out with Rory. I like it. Yeah, but I mean, look,

as I said, when I criticized, if you want to, I was watching him getting interested, nagging injuries popping up. I was watching his club head speed decline at an age when it should have been maintaining or even going up. And, you know, I mean, I said what I said. I couldn't have couched with any more caveats.

And, you know, the next day he posted a video of him self-working out. I think I've told you this before. About a month later, I was on our set of GC match play. And Rory was at one end fulfilling an obligation on the set. And I said, he was coming up. I was busy. I was working. I didn't look his direction. I didn't turn around when he was walking off. I connect with him. And I felt a tap on my back. And I turned around. He goes, you know, I was just effing with you. You know, that's what we do. I was just having fun. He goes, I didn't mean any harm by it.

And I was like, I get it. There's no problem. I didn't take offense to it at all. You know, but I think in the long run, I do believe that Rory changed his way he bears and works out. So his body's moving better, he's less inclined to get injured. And then with his short game, You know, I think he made a good move going to work with. It's really just having conversations with. Brad is giving him permission, if you will, to be less careful on the greens, to be more athletic and more reactionary, which is crazy because it's inundated with pseudoscientists. And then they have cluttered up the game.

They're not doing their students any favors whatsoever. And I think Roy did a good job of divorcing himself from those thoughts and those ideas and those teachers. And he's on the right path. And then I think mentally, whatever place he needed to find, he got there towards the end of the last year to sort of play his best golf. I think, you know, the rivalry, they may not call it a rivalry, but it certainly feels like, looks like a rivalry that he has between Brooks.

I think that's fine-tuned whatever it was that was missing from his game to a great spot. So it sets up, I think, beautifully for, for, Rory going into 2020. What's your relationship like with Brooks Kepka? He kind of tweeted out what may or may not have been a clown picture with your face on it. I think Brooks comes to this game

with sort of a sports mentality. I think that's the sensibility that he brings to golf. It's not the traditions of the game that it's a gentleman's sport. I think his comments about there'd be no rivalry between him and Rory in a major championship since he was playing the PGA tour, which 2012

he just wasn't good enough to play on. I do believe Rory's won three major championships. I don't think you like that clown face picture, Brandel. I don't think you like the Brooks did that to you. I think he's had that comment that he wasn't good enough for a long time in his backpocket. I picture of myself with a clown nose shortly after that. That's true. In response to his clown-nose picture, that doesn't bother me.

I mean, again, it comes with the territory of it's going to be something said. You know, I've said it before. I mean, I've kind of half-joked about it. I had a few shows before and thought, Well, it just comes out wrong. I've been there before. Everybody has. That's a spot we can all.

That's just so true. Boy, have I been there before. Yeah, you know. I feel like he's talking right to me. Try not to let that happen. That is. That's Frankie's segment right there. I mean, it's incredibly true.

Sometimes you just start, you know, you come from a good place with it. You know you have the information. And by the time it all comes out, you're like, what the fuck did I just say? Seriously. Yeah. I don't even agree with what I just said. It happens. Sometimes I mean, TV or radio or podcast, it's a little like golf.

I mean, sometimes you just get it wrong. Sometimes you make a mistake. Sometimes you make a bug, you know, and you try not to. You try to learn from it. You try to be accurate, you know, that's the goal. It doesn't always work out that way. Ladies and gentlemen, mostly gentlemen, Valentine's tip number one, not all rose bouquets are created equally.

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Upgrade, just 10 bucks more. You get 24 roses. That is. 1-800flowers.com, radio icon, code 4-play. You're welcome. What do you think of Bryson turning himself into the Incredible Hulk? That's got to drive you crazy. magically change the look of their body without, I would say, hardly any success.

And in most cases, devastating consequences from a competitive standpoint. So it's not like it doesn't come with some danger. I applaud the fact that he's willing to take the risk. And I'll sit back and watch. And if it works, look, we'll all be beating a path to his door to find out how he did it. He just led the Phoenix open and driving distance. he was, I believe, third and strokes gain off of the T, and he's not normally that good a driver.

So he had a great week off of the T.E. Phoenix. And, you know, his clubhead speed, you know, I have a look at it on social media sometimes it gets up to 130 miles an hour, which is an insane number. But, I mean, if you start to look at, you know, the best drivers on the PGA tour, I mean, they typically don't have four and a half degrees loft, and they don't have a dispersion rate that comes with 190-mile-hour ball speed.

So if he is the one with a four and a half degree loft driver, 130-mile-hour club head speed with wide dispersion that makes that better, well, then everything I said last night about the distance report is right now the game is inside out and one way and one way only. Inability of, or should I say the ability of inaccurate drivers defined by, at least in my view, those outside the top 100 driving accuracy that have success on the PTA tour. punished. How accurate was Tiger back in his heyday in his prime that, that, you know, 10 years stretch?

Yeah, for a window from 99, 2001, 2002, you know, he was in the 70% range and driving actually. In 2000, he was up to around 73% fairly hit. Now, that was in an era of, it wasn't unusual for long hitters to be, you know, high 60s, low 70s driving accuracy. Very good driver to off in terms of driving accuracy and dependency, not the link. He's missing. I've never seen him swinging better than he's swinging right now. So we'll get to Tiger, and I want to get to Patrick Reed, but we touched on distance. Obviously, USGA RNA came out with their joint report on distance.

They've been working on it seemingly forever. There's been a lot of different sides to the distance debate. I think you've taken a very interesting side over the last year or so and been very vocal about it. There's, you know, I guess more. really hardcore sort of course purists who really want the distance to be dialed back, then there's other folks who say, you know, screw it. Like if people are in technology getting better, it's making the game, you know, easier for pretty much everybody, and that's great.

So let it just keep going. And then there's a lot of people somewhere in between. What is your reaction to the, you know, the findings and sort of where you think we'll go from here with the distance situation in golf? Well, the report was detailed and it came from the right place about that. It was a lot of passion, a lot of time put into it. And I found myself agreeing from a sustainability standpoint going forward, some of their points. And I agree that there's a problem with inaccurate driving being rewarded on the PGA tour.

I just differ on how to find a solution for that. They say that golfs, you know, they infer that golf is in a bad place and then it's going to go to an even award. worst place. I would argue that golf is in a great place. It's in the Olympics. Golf used to be argued as to whether or not it was even a sport in the Olympics, no doubt, because we just spent 25 years watching the greatest player to ever play the game, the most animated, the most interesting. And that gave us even better athletes in the game. And we've got the best athlete, or the best golf had ever come out of Japan, best golf had ever come out of Ireland. We've got the best golfing coming out of Thailand. We've got the best golfing coming out of Thailand.

from Chile, best golfers coming out of South Korea, all over the world, countries are producing their best golfers ever. I can't imagine how golf would be in a better place. I just talk to the people that run and oversee St. Andrews and all the courses there. They've never had a better year than they had last year, mostly from the United States, people traveling.

So I just don't see where golf's in a bad spot. When I hear them say and infer in that report that elite ball strikers were marginalized by the advances in equipment, I scratched my head. I'm like, I must have missed the part where the elite ball striker, Tiger Woods was marginalized. I must have missed that.

I don't know what they're talking about. I think that to more organically correct the issue of inaccurate driving being rewarded, they just have thicker rough. Grow the fairways, which will slow them down. They've gotten too fast, slow them down, grow the rough and firm up the greens. and players will more organically go to softer balls and drivers will have left moment of inertia.

The game will change more organically. They'll have to be strategic in their setups. So, right, so the USGA, or the report concludes, we believe that golf will best thrive over the next decades and beyond of this continuing cycle of ever-increasing, hitting distance, and golf course lengths is brought to an end. Now, I think it was Frankie, amazingly, who made a very good point on Tuesday. show about like isn't what we're talking about there doesn't that only affect like 0.0.0.001% of golfers which are the best players in the world or people that are the best amateurs and the best pros in the world because I mean us we go out there golf ain't too easy for us distance is not the problem for me you know the I'm not driving it on the green every time

and my bad drives are not there's no advantage when I hit a bad drive it's gone and you know like the golf course is not the issue for for the everyday golfer. Look, I'm driving right now. I give Frankie a golf clap. They nailed it. I mean, that's spot-on analysis. The problem, and I, you know, air quotes problem,

is that a few golfers are hitting at prodigious distances, and a few golfers make certain, from a nostalgic standpoint, from a historical standpoint, important holes. look like they've never looked before. I mean, when someone drives it around the corner at 13 at Augustine National and has an eight iron into the green, you scratch your head, you think, well, that's not really what the architect got in mind. And Fred Ridley certainly spoke to that last year at Augusta National.

And that's a great point. I get it. But I would also sort of try to point people who have those thoughts into the direction of, look, in 1980, Sevi won the Masters for the score 275. Last year, Tiger won the Masters for the score 275. While certain holes may lack sort of the punch or the momentous occasion that Fred was talking about,

Chairman Ridley was talking about, I would argue that there are momentous decisions being made at other places on the golf course that sort of help diminish the punch. or the sting of that shot being diminished, if you gave my point, because players are hitting it longer, but they're in the rough more often. So you have momentous shots taking place in the trees at 1 and 2, 5, 7, and 9, and you tell me a more momentous decision than Phil Mickelson hitting a shot out of the pine needles.

I said rough. They don't call it rough, I guess, the national club second cut. But you tell me a more momentous decision than Phil Mickelson, hitting a shot, the second shot at 13 out of the pine needles in 2010. And, you know, the line in the sand from an equipment standpoint was drawn a long time ago. So the advances in equipment that have been made since then are either due to better technique, better athletes, or better agronomy. You can address this issue with increased length with you change the agronomy,

and then you can encourage through punishment of missing, drives into the rough changes in technique and equipment in an organic way by punishing the miss. Do you think they're going to do, you know, go with a couple different standards, basically a professional standard and another golf ball that's, you know, the one more similar to what we're used to now? Well, they're suggesting a local rule that would allow, you know, the option for that. I think that is a 102-page manifesto synopsis.

and it never said that they were going to roll the ball back, but at least that's how I viewed it. That's what it said to me was the local option is there so that we can get our arms around this distance issue and change equipment and change the nature of the game at the highest level. Do I think they will do it? I think if they're going to have a hard time doing it, I don't think that the PGA tour is going to be on board with it.

Certainly the manufacturer is not going to be on board with it. You know, they're the governing body, right? And so the U.S. open, they could certainly do it there, and Augusta falls in line. I guess they'll fall in line. But I would imagine there's going to be – the debate is open now, and there'll be, I think, some pretty boisterous counters to their findings. I don't think the game's in a bad place.

And I think there are many others who are about to voice their opinions that feel the same way. Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's in, yeah, I didn't really thought about that point about, like, their whole, one of their main points that golf's not going to, isn't in a good place, is not going to be in a good place. If this continues, is I hadn't thought about how that could just be wrong. Because like, like you're saying, I mean, if we've got equipment that allows us who I think are pretty much like as good a representation of the average golfer as you can have in the world, like, we have equipment that allows us to hit it like a little further than we could have, definitely straight. than we used to be able to, and that if our shitty swings are in some way decent that day, the technology is going to allow us to have way more success than we've ever had before,

and that makes the game more fun and enjoyable for everyone. Yes, me too, by the way. I mean, I'm hard Denver graphic. I'm mid-50s. You know, I don't swing as fast. I don't swing as good as I used to, and the equipment, I mean, it allows me to every now and then feel like a kid again. You know, I can hit it high. I can hit it pretty darn far.

It forgives my, you know, my flailing away trying to make a good golf swing. I mean, the equipment engineers are probably the smartest people in the game, and they've done what they were hired to do, which was make the game better. They've done it, and they did it while operating within the rules that were set in front of them by the governing bodies. So, you know, they've done what they were asked to do, and now people want to reshuffle the deck. And besides potentially being bad for the game, because who wants to roll equipment back such that short hitters

gravitate towards the top of scoring average. I don't want short hitters. I don't want long hitters. I want those that can hit it the longest and the straightest. And that can be done, again, in a more, organic way. And by the way, I mean, tell me it is not fun to watch Rory McRoy or Dustin Johnson or Brooks Keppgo or Tiger Woods or Adam Scott or John Romg hit a golf ball.

I mean, the mere fact that the game is so physical now is one of its defining qualities. And it's the reason I have no doubt that it's in the Olympics. Tiger made the game look like a sport. And all of these players that I've just alluded to in scores of others carry that. that banner. There is a lot of truth to the fact that watching Tiger or Rory or DJ watching these guys actually hit the golf ball is aesthetically pleasing and fascinating. And there are guys that aren't like watching Webb Simpson hit a golf ball or Zach Johnson, for example.

I knew you were going to say that. I was going to say, I'd actually love the shorter hitters to rise to the top so Zach Johnson can finally just dominate like he's supposed to. Some of that I could see if people argued is like boring, but just watching like swing by swing of some of these like real athletes now that have that have come into the game and taken over the game is just mesmerizing. We've been on the, we've been very, very fortunate of to be like, be able to get inside and close on the range even and watching them hit just hit ball after ball. And it is as just a sports fan mesmerizing. Yeah, there's a, there's a violent,

you know, there's the, there's an athleticism to it. And it's not like it was devoid of that in the past, right? I mean, Arnold Palmer, certainly there was a violence there and Jack Nicholas those were great athletes. It's not like the game is completely missing that. It's just more prevalent now. And you see even shorter and stature athletes like Justin Thomas and Roy McRoy capable of astonishing, astonishing athleticism. I mean, to see it up close, you know, it's shocking.

It's absolutely shocking to watch them hit a golf. and humbling, but you can't watch it without thinking, those guys are athletes, and that's a great place where the game is. So if they roll things back, you know, maybe the nature, the landscape of the game changes somewhat. You know, remember, the way the game is right now has produced these athletes to be some more corrective issues on inaccuracy being rewarded. And I don't think for a such as name of them,

we'll figure out how to hit it more accurately. if they need to, but right now they don't need to, so they don't. Letco is the fastest growing mobile marketplace to buy and sell locally. If you're looking to sell, Letco gives you an opportunity to turn your used and unused items into experience. If you're looking to buy, Letko gives you access to a lifestyle that you otherwise could not afford. We're talking designer brands, ladies and gentlemen, cars, sneakers, whatever it is. Letco is the go-to place to help you through life changes such as moving back to school, new parents, not to be confused with if you acquire new parents.

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Boy, there was an opportunity For a joke before When he was talking about the distance He said someone's drawing the line in the sand And I was just about to say Shout out Patrick Reed But I didn't And it's been eating away at me

It's been eating away at me Like you wouldn't believe you had it ready You got it in sort of In a way that nobody's going to laugh at No one Yeah Which is good It was a good moment in my head

But carry on So you You said on December 9th To defend what Patrick Reed did is to defend cheating. He has said if you do something unintentionally that breaks the rules, it's not considered cheating. Then a couple days later,

I believe it was December 13th was when it was dated. You get a cease and assist from Peter Ginsburg, who was Patrick Reed's lawyer. What was his reaction to getting the C&D? I think I jokes to someone had asked me that question that I can't imagine how he found the only lawyer that didn't play golf.

just keep firing because the video was bad and I think if Patrick would have just said look the video is bad it looks bad you know I'm sorry it looks like that it's not a good moment for me I'm going to work on it

I'm going to get better the game of golf takes a deep breath and says okay that's good but I think you know whether or not we talk about Patrick Reed or not was not the issue. Yes, I had to first address what Patrick Reed had done, but I was always thinking

about all, I thought this was a moment where the whole golf board was watching how golf treated this incident. And in particular, I think junior golfers are watching. And at the core of this game, as you play the ball, it lies, and at the core of this game, you are meant to govern yourself. Those are very core fundamental issues to the game. The game breaks down if those, those, those, traditions are not adhered to. You're not going to play golf with Trent, or Trent's not going to play golf with you or Frankie, if all of you play loose and fast with the rules.

Or one of you plays loose and fast with the rules. He's just going to get uninvited. This game is about, I believe that the junior golfers, if they're watching and that that self-governing aspect of the game is replaced by a catch-meat if you can aspect, then if it pervades junior golfers, golf, 10, 15 years later, it pervades professional golf. And that is just not the game that I think is one of the most attractive games anybody

could hope to play because, look, it's about entertainment. But at its core, the game communicates values. It just does. And that is the great thing about golf. And so I thought that was important to illuminate in the larger discussion of what Patrick breeds, rules debacle, and the Bahamas men. Do you, is that the first time that you've gotten something like that from comments that you've made?

I mean, imagine over the years that can't be the only incident. Well, I mean, I've gotten back, but never, I mean, first of all, First Amendment rights, he's three things sort of nullify any, see many lawyers, moves on from it. I saw a very interesting tweet from you in the last couple days. Somebody asked you, I think it was a guy named Nick on Twitter, said he read your book, found it very interesting. Asked if you ever alter your grip based on the shot you're going to play. And you said, you bet, I alter it slightly for fades and draws, high and low shots and for chips, depending on the line, for bunker shots as well. That stunned me that you change your grip for different golf shots that you're going to hit.

Yeah, you know, it's a mega slight. Make your left grip, left hand weaker and your right hand weaker. And, you know, there's a shot around the greens that I've used for ages when I've got hard pan. You know, want to use the big darn comp. Your right hand, really. weak and your left hand really weak, so that you can still slam your hand, you can release your hand without introducing the leading edge. Then you get this steep angle of attack while you still use bounce. It's a pretty complicated shot, but if you do it, the ball will pop straight up in the air as if you've got a cushion underneath the ball. You should see all the air grips that are going on to this room right now. I'm shaking their heads like that. So just about amazing. I got one grip

It barely works, and I can't be loosening my left hand, loosening my right hand. That's, boy, that's some complicated stuff. I just figured out what strengthening your grip meant. I thought it meant squeezing the club a little strong. Turns out that's amazing what goes on in Brando-Shanbley's head when he's about to hit a golf ball and what goes on in mind. I'm just trying to get to a comfortable place. I'm just trying to make contact.

At the end of the day, right? You look down the ball and you're like, let's do this thing. Let's get this ball in the air. And let's get this ball in the hole at some point today so we can all move on. and I don't have to freaking get carried off this golf course. But it's like he's like thinking each shot, each shot? I mean, when I was over the ball in California, I was just looking at like, how am I going to do this thing?

I don't know how. And I couldn't even. For us, it's like, let's get consistent enough where each swing can kind of look similar. That's why I just try to get to a comfortable place. It can kind of look like the last swing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, if you get in the thick rough, you know, you actually do have more grip pressure. So that you get through it. Sometimes when you're on a T where you need to hit it higher and longer, you sort of grip all the way to the end of the grip where almost your pinky's hanging off the grip, and you grip it as light and as loose as you can. So you're always making sort of nuanced sort of, not always, but it's not uncommon to make nuanced modifications to your grip

as you progress through a round of golf, depending upon the shot you need to hit. I mean, I think most of the players, I think, you know, if they need to draw, whether they know it or not, they sort of, you know, they strengthen their grip just a little bit. They need to fade it. They're going to weaken their grip just a little bit. And certainly if they have to hit snap hooks out of the rough or snap slices out of the rough,

or, you know, if you're going to hit a low punch, well, the ball's back in my stance. So I'm going to naturally strengthen my grip if I want it to really go low. But, yeah, there's all kinds of little modifications you can make. So slightly. get closer to the shot you're trying to hit. This is when I wish we didn't live in New York City because it's so hard to just go to a driving range and just try this kind of stuff in the range.

This is like just changing your grip, seeing like, okay, I'm just going to try to hit a giant slice where it's like any time, any valuable time that we get on the range is like so valuable that we just need to try to learn how to hit it relatively straight in somehow some sort of consistent fashion. But on the other hand, you can get pizza delivered to your store at 4 a.m. Oh, great point.

I can't tell you how much it sucks when you go to a different city, and that is not an option. Yeah, I was just saying. It's straightoffs. You can't go hit golf all today, but 4 o'clock in the morning, you're right there. I like that you think we're out at 4 o'clock in the morning just needing pizza real bad. I am so much in a REM sleep at that. I'm going to sleep 11 p.m. I'm in bed. Oh, you're bed at like 9 last night.

I'm getting old. I was a bad boy last night. I ate a ton of food yesterday, man. I went off the rails yesterday. We just had a conversation about this. I know. I said I was going to get my, I was going to get my shit straight. And then I just, I went to this all you can eat thing at the Islander game.

And I'm talking, man. I was, I was a naughty boy. I was a naughty, naughty boy. Yeah, you know, it's hard to maintain that discipline past January. Yeah. I get in February, and I'm like, oh, the hell with it. Give me the pizza. Brenda, what do you do, like, what do you do when you're not thinking about golf or talking

about golf or dissecting swings. Dreaming about it. Like, what do you do? Yeah, if I'm off, then I, you know, I usually have something golf related coming up, so it's rare. I like to read. And, I mean, I know that sounds terrible. I just like to read it.

My ideal day would be, you know, reading all day long, to be honest with you. That clip is going to get played over and over again. We might, I'll be a drop on this show. My ideal day is just reading all day. That's great, man. Crush three books. Do you?

Yeah. How much, how many books, how many, what's the most amount of books you've read? They're a golf related books? You're a vacation. You got 10 days. How many books you crush me? Yeah. You know, I'll have three or four books laying around the house, one of my library, one of my living room, one of the bedroom, you know.

A couple ones. You're reading the shit out of those. A couple rooms. You're just, just, just soaking them all in. Yeah, but mostly political books. And then, you know, some sort of, you know, inspiring books or books on the, you know, something about sports. or something about the mind or, you know, those kinds of things, you know.

She's laying around the house. My wife likes to play golf more than I do it, and she'll come through, you know, middle of the afternoon. She's like, can we go play golf for crying out loud? You're like, no, we just need to read. Right, no. She'll browbeat me until I get up and go play golf with it. But not, when I'm off, that's pretty much it. I don't know if you were sitting on your phone like playing Candy Crush or you're like,

You're a Netflix, a Netflix binger or something. Like you watch TV, watch movies? What do you do? You don't, you don't, no,

not a huge TV watchers. You know, I, there's shows that I have certainly been to watch I love the crown. Oh, I love the crown, Brandon.

Running wild, I love that. But for the most part, I don't watch that much. No one else watches the crown except for me in this whole entire office. And of course,

the one person I watch the crown is the guy who reads books all day. That's like exactly who watches the crown, and I watch the crown. You love it? I love the crown. I think the crown is fantastic. I was amazing. I've always sort of had this fascination with royalty. So do I. I think it would be just like this hideous life and yet this magnificent life

in terms of the things and the people that could impact. I mean, it's just like this weird mix of vices and obligations and birth rights that make no sense. So interesting. What did you think of Megan and Harry getting out of town? They quit? You know, again, on one level, I guess I understand it on another. I kind of, my friends that are from Great Britain, from London, they thought it was pretty predictable because, you know, it's hard for anybody to fully understand the obligations of royalty and the difficulties of that job. And so, you know, guessing here, reading between the lines, they show up, and they're like, oh, God, this thing.

thinks. Everybody judges you on everything you do and you really don't have that much to do that's impactful. Can't we go out and make an impact on the world and just live by our own merits, make money on our own merits? I mean, here she was having a marvelously successful career as an actress and seemed to be an influencer in many, many other areas. And all of a sudden, you have to stop all that and stop having opinions. I think that's, that's, that's, that's, that'd be a difficult thing to have to give up. Man, I think they just, you know, she's, she wants to get back into the actress. They're going to have a reality TV show.

It's just the whole thing is like, I don't know. I don't like it. Once you're in that royalty, man, you don't get out of it. It's like, I think they knew what they were getting into when you marry into a royal family. I think they thought they could make it work. But once you're in, you're in. Because now they get to reap the benefits of being in a royal family. You can say we want to go back to living normal lives.

they will never live in normal life. They're going to be extremely famous and wealthy and all these things, and that comes from being in a royal family. So they're getting the best of both worlds, which is just not allowed. Like, you should have to stay in that castle and do the things. That's why you are in the royal family. Do the things that you have to do.

Go sign the papers. I understand it sucks, but you signed up for it. And you're reaping the benefits. Right. I mean, I get all that. I get all that. I understand. I guess their kids.

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I want to ask you what the hell is going on with Jordan Speath. Yeah, I think overcomplicated golf instruction is what's going on there. When you, we go down to the range and you see, you know, I think I see his coach feeling like, you know, and looking at him and, you know, the analogy that sort of pops in my head is a lifeguard looking out on a shark-infested beach. I mean, he's just, he looks frantic. And, and he's right, this is minutes before Jordan's meant to go play. Like, I, I, I, you know, we. reached out to Cameron a few times. He's not particularly interested in reaching back out to us.

So you're sort of stuck reading between the lines, but there's no doubt when you look at how long he spends over the golf ball now compared to how long he used to spend over the golf ball in 2015, that he's needlessly complicating the golf swing. And that I think he would be better off if he just were left alone to figure it out on his own. I mean, I think there's said it before. I mean, there's intellectual power and solitude.

And every athlete needs to find a quiet place to invent. And you don't need a teacher there muddling up your brain with his thoughts about the golf swing. If you just leave Jordan Speed alone, he'll figure it out. Look at Tiger's Golf Swing. Has he ever swung better? Who's his teacher? Himself. Himself.

If you can learn anything from Tiger Woods and you can learn a lot, how about late in his career becoming his own teacher and swinging better than he's ever swung in his career and jordan speed could could learn from what tiger woods is doing right now you keep saying tiger's swung better than he ever has in his career what's um i mean how true is that are we we're serious right now i like that a lot well you know i i've compared his swing at the farmers to when he won at the farmers in 2003 which he still had the golf swing that produced the greatest golf ever played, and they're eerily similar. It swings a little bit longer now, perhaps,

and a little bit more graceful in transition. It's not as fast. So, you know, from an explosive standpoint, it was clearly better in 99 to 2002-3. But from an aesthetic standpoint, I don't know how you can swing a golf club any better than Tiger Woods is swinging it right now. What about his full game?

Is there any part of his game that you're worried about because if he's swinging it, you know, about as well as he has, and he's clearly won at the Zozo. He's the reigning Masters champion, which is a very cool fact. Wasn't that long ago. A year and a half ago that he won the Tour Championship. So if he's got some of these wins locked up and he's swinging it really well, what is it that you would potentially be worried about with Tiger?

You know, as you get older, you know, obviously, deteriorates. It doesn't matter. You know, it's just, it's inevitable. So your ability to, you know, perceive depths and read green. is diminished and your nerves aren't as good and your touch isn't as good and so you don't put as good as you used to and last year he had the worst year he's ever had putting and he still putted fine he still gained strokes but he wasn't the demon that he used to be on the greens and that's that's inevitable so you know his his sort of highs and lows with putting I think they were

evident at the farmers and yet he still finished in the top 10 so I don't worry I watched high and I, every time I were watching play, I cannot believe what I'm watching. I mean, I literally, I cannot believe that he has come back better than ever with his golf swing, better than he ever was around the greens. And I'm honestly, I'm just thankful that I get to see it, to be honest with you. I feel privileged that I get to watch. All of us are watching Babe Ruth and the 27 Yankees. Okay, maybe it's not 27 Yankees because it's not his.

prime but we get we get another year or two or three who knows how long to watch the guy who played the greatest golf ever so i feel privileged you know i guess i took it for granted all those years and then for so many years he was injured and hurt and he was in a different place in his life and it was equal parts astonishing and painful to watch but now it's like i don't i don't want to waste a minute when i don't watch this guy i want to watch every shot he gets i want to take it in and try to remember it's a privilege to get to see somebody who's meant that much to the game who still is capable of playing the game so cleanly and beautifully. I think it was Frankie who's talked a lot about how the fact that we get to witness stuff that we will tell people about in the future versus a lot of the last decade with Tiger has pretty much been watching replays, not watching in real time, but like watching replays of what he used to be like. And it's so unique in that it's almost like you almost, with no athlete, do you get the chance to have a long period of time where you reminisce about, wow, what they used to be able to do?

And then they come back and get to do it in real time. It's almost like an unprecedented cycle of witnessing someone play their sport. That's right. I mean, from an analysis standpoint, Frankie's having a hell of a day. A plus. I appreciate Riggs bringing all the only good points I've ever. It's crazy. What you do that?

I have to give credit what credit is doing. It's been a weird day. It felt weird, but yeah, to do what you have to do. I mean, that's true, though. It is. You watch Tiger Win and Zoso and how clinical he looked, and you watch how he played in the singles, well, the whole week at the President's case.

How cleanly he looked. There was nobody to him. You know, he's driving the ball so much better than he used to drive it. And Rory was talking about how well Tiger Woods drove the golf ball when he played with the tour championship at the final round. He said, you know, he was just hitting these controlled cuts out there, every hole on a golf course where you absolutely need to find the fairway at Eastlake. And he said it was just beautiful to watch. It's like, you know, it's like, how could you, I mean you watched that and not really appreciate how he's remade himself into a more complete player in the standpoint of finding fairways? it's like, who done that?

And, you know, he's going to get 83, 84, 85 wins. Who knows? Maybe he gets 16 majors. If he does, you know, even better. But I think we can all just sit back and appreciate, you know, doing the job I do. When he plays in an event, I mean, he makes my job so doggone easy. You know, you could break down any facet of his game, any hole, any shot. and it's compelling and there's there's enough there that everybody that loves this game can find value in it so

you know it's a hell of a time getting to watch him play right now a little bit of a different case what's uh you think Phil Mickelson's ever gonna ever gonna make his way back or where's he at uh look i've got i've got some decent bets with some friends that he will come back and win i have friends that I think know the game pretty well that are betting me that he's never going to win again. I'm like, are you guys nuts? I mean, you know, he, what do you finish?

Just finished third in Saudi Arabia. You know, I think he's having some fun trying to pick up some clubhead speed. So from an experimental standpoint, he's in sort of uncharted territory, and he did it. You know, he picked up some speed, but it cost him everything.

It cost him all of his consistency and the brilliancy that he, that he had, you know, he was never an accurate driver, but he's become even far more inaccurate, and that's proven to be a disaster. But I think he'll figure it out one or two more weeks before he, you know, puts a period on his tremendous career. You know, he's at a bizarre career. You know, he's been the most inaccurate great player in history by miles. So he's just been very exciting to watch, but I don't think he's done. I think he'll win a little bit more.

What a great tagline that is. The most inaccurate, great player of all time by Miles. It's by Miles. It's like if you listed the 40 greatest players of all time, you'd get to 39, and then there'd be like 100 yards before you get to 40, and it'd be Phil. You know, I mean, there's a lot of things I like about it to golf swing, but when you look at it halfway down, it is just gross.

You know, it's not on any plane. And if you stopped it and you didn't know anything about Phil or golf, and you were vaguely familiar with the idea of delivering, you know, an instrument to a particular spot in space, you'd think he can't get there from there. And then the next thing you know, he not only gets there, he gets there with power in some degree of consistency or used to.

But I think he'll figure it out and give us some more fill, like weeks. Good. I hope so. Feels great for the game. Anybody got any else for our good friend, Brando? Well, you know, he talked about my analysis and how I've been on point today, so I have

to bring up the other thing that I, you know, that I've famous to sit on. You're going to self-promote here? Well, no, it's just I want to get his take, Brandl's take, on the term golfing. We've been, I mean, I know I have been at the forefront of this

fight saying that golf can be used as a verb and that golfers go golfing. They're not golf players. So when Tiger Woods, our all holy Tiger Woods said, well, they don't go baseballing. Well, they're baseball players. You know, golfers go golfing, swimmers go swimming, runners go running, drivers go driving. So golfers go golfing. That's my take on it. I'll now give it to you because I would love to hear your take on this. You know, one of my least favorite things to do in TV is get into play semantic juditsu because you'll finish a show and they'll say, you said longer, it's

Langer. You said Langer, it's longer. I'm like, I think they know I'm talking about the German who won two mage, the master twice, whether I say Langer or longer. But golfing, on the other hand, you know, that just hits the year in a bad way. It just doesn't sound right. You may make a marvelous case there for golfing. Maybe it's like fishing and running, but it just doesn't hit the ear.

It just doesn't hit the ear very, very good. You know, you went to play golf. I played golf. But if somebody says they're going golfing, it's a tale to me. They're not going to go golfing very good, you know? It's just not likely to be golfing very good that day. He really reeled you in there. He was like langer, longer, whatever, and then he was like, but, and he got you.

It's just I couldn't disagree more, and that's fine. That's your opinion. I just like, I think not only do I think it's my opinion, this is where I always find myself in trouble, I think it's factually correct. to say golfing. We're golfing on Saturday. Whoa, you want golfing?

Well, there you go. Come on. You know, man. I don't know. Keep making the argument. Maybe you're just thinks you can't break 80 if you say that. Big thing is that they're not golf players. I shot a six,

you know? Oh, boy. Here we go on. Thank you. Sounds like you. Have you been listening to the show? Yeah, because we've been talking about this yesterday.

And like, and I will, I'll take this moment to really talk about that from yesterday. I know that I said saying, would you shoot? should be accepted because brand what i'm saying is let's i understand that golf has all this tradition all these values and that there are rules and things that you say in certain sports rigs made the point where you don't say i made a field goal you don't you don't you don't say i made a touchdown you

don't make it i'm sorry you don't make it made a touchdown whatever you can do all these things in baseball and all these other sports but for me it's like if if if i'm on the golf course and i'm in the cart and i go to my buddy and i say like hey man what did you shoot on 17 and 18 for them to for golf to be the type of sport and the type of people that play to actually look down upon me and be like, well, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Because I used a term that is actually used when you say at the end of the round, hey, what did you shoot today? Oh, I shot 75. But like, I can't say it after a hole or two. I don't, I would never say I shot a six.

You sound like it. You sound like you've never spoken the English language before. But I would say like, oh, what did you shoot there? Like, it just off the top of my head. So it doesn't like hit my ear in a funny way or like upset me. But I think it just brings up like a point of confusion. Actually this kid, Benjamin Morrison reached out to me on Twitter. I thought it was genius.

And I tweeted at you. What did you shoot on 18? This is a dramatic pause. I don't know what it's for. Are you talking about all 18 holes or the 18? Right. I get that. So that's where like from a point of confusion comes up.

But like it doesn't bother me as a term. It just. And I'll end at this because I know he doesn't want to sit in our dumb arguments that we always have. But like my point is like to that. answer, if you said would you shoot there, I would say I made a four, I made a five, something that's more acceptable or like, that makes more sense. But the actual question of would you shoot there, I don't think should come with the, you know, the baggage that's like, oh, this guy just picked up his clubs at a dick sporting goods and is never going to play again.

Also, can golf a ricochet to be turning people away? Like, I don't think, see, I think you guys are conflating two arguments. No. Yes, because you're saying, like, you can say all the stuff that I tweeted in that tweet about, like, golf should be fun. and then also say like, and I also think it sounds ridiculous when you say, uh, what'd you shoot on that hole in the same way that like, this isn't pertaining particularly only to golf. And the reason that I made the football one is like, if you start dating a girl and she's not in sports and you sit down to the bar and you're like, yeah, we're rooting for the niners tonight. The niners scored.

She goes, oh, they made a touchdown. You'd be like, listen, honey, like that's, it just doesn't sound right. Like you should say this, that. You're not being like a pompous douchebag about football. You're just saying like, it doesn't hit the air right. This is kind of what the term that we use. Right. And then my point to that was that, like, in football,

you really don't use those terms that often. You do use what you shoot. It's just like, whatever. We figure out these times when you're allowed to say, when you're not allowed to say it. I just don't think golf should have this stigma of, like, a pompous, elitist, like, oh, you don't know it, I do. I'm, I try and take those barriers down when I'm around people when I play golf.

I'm like, let's say whatever the hell we want. Let's do whatever the hell we want out here. As long as you're abiding by the rules and, like, playing the game like you're supposed to, If you say something, you shouldn't, I shouldn't show up to a country club and feel like I'm out of place because I said, would you shoot there? You know what I mean? I don't like that feeling. It makes me feel, makes me feel like less of a person, and I don't like that. That shouldn't be how golf makes you feel.

Well, I've been around plenty of people who say they're going to put up, but I've seen it written. I've never once corrected them or changed what they said. It's like, if you think you're going golf, go golf, go golf. Yeah. You know, personally, I couldn't use that word on the air because, I mean, people. People are pretty particular about the vernacular. You use in the game of golf, and there's tales. You know, when new people come to golf broadcast happens every now and then,

someone pops up in golf broadcasting and doesn't come from golf. People just wait for them to make egregious, vernacular mistakes. And that would be a tell, you know? You're like, oh, they really don't know the game. You're right. I mean, nobody's going to correct you if you say it. I don't think they will. and in public or on the radio or on Twitter, of course.

Yeah, everybody can say anything and they're going to create. I agree. There is also, we pulled up that, like, the St. Andrews Trust or whatever had written in, like, centuries ago they had written, like, the golfing society or something like that. Yeah, right, right. And they still write and call it the British Open, not the Open championship, but a lot of people will call it the British Open. and you know do i say you mean the open championship or the open no technically the people who

the rna they call it the open and loads of people call it the british open again it's a on tv you're not going to hear too many people call it the british open but loads of people outside of tv are going to call it the british open how's uh last question how's our boy amin lynch doing we love that man henry uh profane uh horrible at golf uh but good dinner company He's a beauty. It's funny, I was reading him yesterday, and somebody said to me, a golf town, he's a great writer, isn't he? Like, yeah, he's a tremendous rider.

Don't agree with the damn thing he says, but he's a great writer. Boy, is he hilarious. I love that guy. I think he's a must-read. You know, I think he's a tremendous rider, and I love him. I absolutely love him. He's my best buddy. Great guy.

He really is terrible golf. Every time we see him at a tournament or whatever, it brightens your day, but in like a weird way because he's, he is. He's profane and he's rude, but it's just amazing. He's got quite a darkness inside him, but he also allows, it also comes out so hilarious. Like, every time I look at him, I laugh. Yeah, he's a world-class insult. Yes, yeah. He really is.

He's like a plus five, plus ten at insult. He will. He's tremendous. It'll make us so happy. He'll say the meanest, like, most vile stuff, and it'll just make us laugh. It's great to see you, too, man. He's like, where's rigs? I could smell him.

He was here somewhere. It's just, he's so good. My kids, when we meet aiming for dinner, they charge him a dollar for every curse word, and he will sit down and throw a 20 in their direction to say, I'm paying in advance. And usually, by the time we leave, he'll owe another 20 or 30 or 40. I mean, it's just, you just can't help himself. Yeah, that's how that man is. All right, Brandel, we appreciate you taking the time.

We kept you for over an hour. I know you're driving, so way to drive safely and chat at the same time. Yeah, no problem. I always enjoy following you guys, listening to you guys, the whole thing. Really enjoy it. Thanks for having me on. Thank you, Brandon. You can find him on golf channel, his book, The Anatomy of Greatness.

Yeah. Yeah, there it is. Beautiful. Drive safe. We appreciate it.