Fore Play - Geoff Shackelford, of Old Man Golf Media, vs Fore Play

Episode Date: January 7, 2020

Geoff Shackelford (~3:24)  joins the show to discuss the infamous Old Man Golf Media vs Fore Play saga. We debate each other's place in the golf media landscape and things get everything from contentious to funny to enlightening. Why did Geoff take a shot at Fore Play? Were we justified in firing back? Is there space at the table for all of us? After Geoff joins, we breakdown the crazy finish to the Tournament of Champions at Kapalua!You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Jeff Shackleford, we finally have a member of what we have deemed Old Man Golf Media, a prominent member. He's on Golf Channel, he's on Golf Central, he's on Morning Drive. He does some stuff even with like Augusta, around the Masters. He's got his website, Jeff Shaggaffer.com. So if you follow golf pretty closely, you have seen him definitely in places we got into it with and we talked all about that while we were in Australia,

we were in Tasmania, about when we finally just kind of responded on Twitter and blew it up. He took a shot at us is how the whole thing started, calling us fanboys with media passes at the President's Cup, clearly rattled about our fist bump with Tiger, the video, which I think has total over like 3 million views if you count Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all that good stuff. We had them on. We talked with Jeff Shagherford for about 45 minutes. It was very heated at times.

we disagree in a lot of things. It was insightful at times, and I think people really enjoy it. So we're going to kind of hit you with that right off the top. There's also a lot to get to from the Century Tournament of Champions out of Capulua, JT, Zander, Patrick Reed, Patrick Cantlay. So a ton to get to. We're going to hit you with the interview first, and then we're going to kind of break down the tournament on the second show of the week, Thursday show. We'll sort of react to the interview. We want to let it breathe a little bit.

We want people to be able to respond on Twitter, put your thoughts, your takes, whatever the fuck you got out there. So we'll hit you with the interview with Jeff Shackleford. First, Simply Safe, Home Security. They're like getting commercial grade, enterprise level security, but for your own home. Think about the security Fortune 500 companies use, not the security of Arsenal Sports uses. Ours is terrible. Anybody can walk in here.

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Here is our chat with Jeff Shackleford. All right, folks. We are now joined by Jeff Shackleford. As anybody who's listening to this show knows, the background, it's been three or four weeks now since we got into it a little bit. Jeff's, of course, on golf channel. He does Morning Drive. He does Golf Central. appearances he's got his website jeff shackleford.com go check it out jeff welcome to the show

thanks for having me on guys appreciate it we appreciate you jumping on uh like we talked about very quickly pre-show you're you're of course outnumbered so again we appreciate you hopping on coming into the lions den however you want to describe it but uh but i mean let's just pretty much hop right in we of course got into it a little bit um i'll kind of refresh everyone on that background in a minute, but you know, you basically said, I'd love to come on the show and discuss, so I'll kind of turn it over to you if there's anything that you would like to lead with here on the show. Yeah, well, there are a lot of things going on probably that we're a part of all that, and I probably, you know, I mean, I would love to tell you kind of the old

media side, one element. I can't speak to some of the other things that were controversial and all that. But I can tell you one thing that I think would be of interest to you guys, so you might have a little more understanding of where we're coming from sometimes. And I love being old media. I love being a boomer. My pants are baby boomers, but somehow I'm one now. So the week before, I was at the Bahamas and for the hero. And on Pro-Am day, it was a day earlier. So whatever day it was Tuesday, I took a, well, that was a pretty cool little video of teeing off on number four. That was a beautiful day, you know, and just a cool swing video,

and I put it on Instagram because I know people enjoy it. And I got a take down notice from the tour. And I said, well, you know, have we changed the rules again on video? And I guess we kind of have. So every year we've had this back and forth with them. And, you know, you talk to the TV networks who they generally cite as the reason for not doing such a thing as protecting their broadcast partners. And, of course, you talk to TV people, and they go, no, we want you to tweet and Instagram stuff out as much as possible.

We want as many people aware of a tournament as we can get. So, of course, we seem to have tightened up the rules again. So I put this swing video up, and I get the notice, take it down, even though the tournament put it on their story and all this stuff. And it's like, here we go again. We're trying to promote the event, do basic stuff that you kind of do now at a tournament. And, you know, and then I get the explanation, well, you could be profiting off of these players. So are you kidding me? Like, I'm going to make any money off an Instagram post.

So I was coming, I am coming into a lot of these discussions from that point of view that it's like, gosh, no, actually, we like to be able to do our job more. And as we saw even this week at Capuloa, the tour can be very hands-on in intervening and things that they need. to be, well, whatever they deem them to be. Sometimes it's gone too controversial. Sometimes it's some violation. And they often like to, you know, focus on some of us who are out there and who's maybe written things they don't like. So anyway, that's my long, boring version of telling you, you know, that sometimes we play by different rules not to our own liking. So it might inform some of the the pushback you guys get when they look the other way on certain video rules that they maybe don't do with the rest of us.

So that would be the context I would add to some of the discussion. Okay. And to be clear, I mean, we have had many run-ins with the PGA tour ourselves. We've had things taken down. I bet. All sorts of violations on Instagram, on Twitter, where we haven't been allowed to post. We've been worried we're going to get our accounts taken away. And so when we do get videos like the ones we get at the President's Cup through the PGA tour,

that's through, I can't tell you, the fucking loops we have to jump through the conversations we have to have with the PGA tour just to get a video like that with Tiger Woods where we fist bump really quickly. It takes a lot to make sure that we're not in trouble. And again, we've had to kind of dance when they've said to dance at certain times and play by their rules because that's how it is. USGA is much easier with us, much better. They only have one tournament a year, so it makes sense. Same with the PGA of America. Obviously they have the Riter Cup too, but only, okay, a couple big events a year. whatever. Where we sort of obviously get into it and have an issue is we're doing our thing.

We're posting our video with Tiger Woods. It gets millions of views. People like it. In our opinion, it's pretty harmless. And like I said, we did whatever we needed to do to make sure we weren't violating anything. Outside of that, we do multiple shows a week where we interview a lot of players. Some of them are long form. Some of them are dumb, cheesy jokes and immature jokes. And some of them we get into. Hey, Justin Thomas, talk to us about how you hit that 301-yard three wood at the U.S. Open a shoe. you know, the 63 that Johnny Miller made fun of, all that kind of stuff. So we're doing our own thing. And then we see somebody like you who writes in your post talking about the President's

Cup where you start the first paragraph. The internationals came up just short at Rowland Melbourne, outside of the team USA inner circle and some fanboys granted a media pass. This will not be remembered as a genuinely satisfying win by the Americans. Again, I think anybody would look at that and be like, okay, that's a clear first shot from Jeff Shackleford at us. We responded to it and then all hell broke loose. So my question then would be if you're doing that kind of going out of your way,

I do know also for a fact that you've contacted other organizations to basically complain or to raise issue with the fact that we get X, Y, or Z access. So our point is we're not going out of our way. We're not addressing anything to you. We're not firing shots at you. So again, we'll turn it over to you. Why fire the shot at us at all? Well, that story is exactly why, and I did.

I said to the tour, I go, so wait a second, a harmless swing video is bad to you guys, but people inside kind of near the ropes, you know, because part of my sensitivity to, look, you guys can do everything you're doing. I love that we have different people bringing different points of view. Please don't misunderstand that. What I have a problem with is if I had done a similar video or certain people had, you'd not only be, you'd have your, you'd be taken off the property and have your, your credential revoked. And so that's where it's like I'm asking the tour.

So I put up a swing, a golf swing, a beautiful golf swing, the swing looking as good as it's ever looked. And I'm somehow profiting or I'm somehow violating NBC and golf channels rights by posting this. But this can go up in the middle of the championship, not the championship, it's a cup event. So a cup event, but it's, you know, because there is a sensitivity to things that are going on practice pro-am days versus tournament rounds. But then take that up with the tour. Don't take a shot at us. That's what I don't understand.

Like you're sort of trying to equate. It's almost like you're acting like you put in that paragraph that you had some issue with the tour allowing our video to stand but not yours. When in reality, that's not what happened. I think you put that line in there because you have a problem with us. You knew you'd get a little laugh out of the people that run in your circles. I'm sure you guys have your problems in qualms with us. That's fine. Everybody does with every in their life.

They have certain qualms, certain things they don't like. That's fine. But there's a reason you put that in. And that reason isn't just because you thought it was unfair the tour didn't let you put up your swing. But that they let us put up our video. That's not truthful, in my opinion. Well, I guess it's also I'm a little disappointed because I do like some of the things you're doing. I mean, at Pebble Beach, you know, you had a cool moment with Tiger.

Great. And I just feel like it's time to move on from that. And this was, you know, kind of doing the same thing. And I think you guys are better than that. And, I mean, I get it. It's an exciting moment. He's cool. Anything around Tiger is amazing.

And, you know, getting to watch him and be a part of his history is phenomenal. But I think it's like, come on, you guys are, you know, now I am been around long enough to have seen. various people come along, and I was one of those people, started blogging when the word blog wasn't even known what it would possibly be, and still just a terrible word. And so I got a lot of this kind of hostility pushback from the old media, so I've been there. But I just think it's, you guys have the potential to really be a great influential voice in the game, but you've got to evolve too and it's like okay we got it you're they they know you you like them now you know take advantage of that access uh in ways are a little bit uh more profound for us as viewers and

for those fans that you're bringing into the and do what though Jeff like it sounds it just reeks of like when you're talking about what we do and comparing it to what you do or what other people do like when you're talking about this swing that you wanted to put up you wanted to put up you wanted to put up something that may be engaging to your fans, right? Like something that they can connect to. It's a Tiger Woods swing. Now, they don't care about Tiger Woods dapping you up or or giving you a high five because they genuinely, your readership or your fans do not care about your interaction with Tiger Woods. That is what our fans care about. That is what they do. They live through us. They live, they want to live the life of like a regular dude that's showing up to a

golf course and got on the other side of the ropes. And Tiger Woods is like, hey, guys, I like you. And he gives us a fist pump. Like, why is that something that we need to change. Why are we not allowed to bring that to our readership and our fans so that I'm getting tweets like, I can't believe that the kid I grew up with Frankie Burelli is in freaking Australia talking to Tiger Woods and like giving him a high five after he just won the president's cup? Why is that not just as cool as you like standing behind the T-box and taking a beautiful picture of his swing? And like, I don't understand why our version of like exposing how cool it is to be at a golf tournament is any different or it's like less than the way you bring like

the tournament to people. I don't know why that's like frowned upon or look down on. Like I don't, you're saying to get over it or move on and, and use our, our platform for better and bigger things. Like, what are we going to do? Like, cure cancer with our Twitter. Like, we're just having fun at a golf tournament. Like, there's not any bigger picture here. We're just experiencing it. Yeah. And I, I have now learned that that's something that a lot of people love. I'm just, now that is where I will be very blunt and admit generationally I'm different. I don't like to put myself in

things when I'm at a tournament. I like to try to take people there maybe through my eyes, but not put myself in it. It's just something that's, you know, it's from my experience. And, you know, yes, I mean, I've been very blessed in my life. I've gotten to be

around some of the most famous athletes in the world. I grew up around the Lakers and UCLA basketball, thanks to my dad and, you know, new people like Kareem and Coach Wooden. So I've been around famous people, and it's just a different approach that I have to media and trying to tell stories or just kind of share the experience. So that, I will

admit, is totally my ignorance of a younger generation. And that's where I am a dinosaur that I don't recognize how much that is valued by an audience. Yeah, I guess that's just why we think it's disingenuous to us when you say, hey, I love what those guys are doing. It's great that they're there, that they're doing this. But then once we get down to a level where we start breaking down what we're actually doing, you say you don't like it.

So your bigger point is like, hey, if it's good for the game, then it's good for all of us. But as soon as we start to break down the different experiences that we have at these tournaments, you're like, well, then I don't get it and I don't like it. That's the disingenuous part to us. Well, and like I said, I've learned some lesson from it. I will hold my ground, though, on that I think it's still not right once the competition has started, just because I think that could get into some areas and things that are, that are, yeah, just can lead to something that actually backfires for you, which I don't think you want to have happened,

because, as you've seen, golfers are, they can be a little sensitive, they can be a little neurotic. And we deal with this all the time with all these things. You know, so much of this, when you really get the people at the various organizations to talk about these things, that they are acting on behalf of the players a lot of the time or the agents. It's out. Anyway, so it's a very tricky fine line. And, no, I'm all for all sorts of different voices, but again, you have to understand. We get these rules very strictly enforced on a lot of us.

So when they look the other way on other ones, you have to understand. That's going to cause consternation and frustration and all those things. I hope you to understand. So I will say, so you're up front position on the type of content I have a really tough time agreeing with you on, in terms of you criticizing, you know, like saying we need to evolve with a Tiger Woods video, you posting a swing, two different types of content. I will say that we worked well with the PGA tour,

and they had a generic rule for us that anything of the golf course had to actually be pushed through them. And so I had a video of Patrick Reed. We worked with them to release a video through their content stream to get that approved because it was of the golf course itself. And so they approved that area for kind of like an okay piece of content to be released by it. I see. Right.

I mean, we were, and again, I don't want to, it's like the little details and nipicking about this. And if that's really the crux of like what you were upset about, I just like, I think it's deeper than that. I think there's more than that. I don't buy that it's just this one instance because we were told very clearly like you can't post footage of play. Not of anything in the practice round, not of anything during the actual round. Now there are certain designated interview areas where you guys can kind of do your thing. So in theory, our little fist bump and interaction with Tiger was our version of an interview. No different than you standing there with a notebook and a camera and sort of asking him about,

you know, why'd you hit a nine iron in here, a low little draw, instead of kind of a high cut with an eight iron or whatever, because that's sort of our version of like, that's our interaction with Tiger. And that's, and if you feel that we should evolve, you would prefer our content to be a little bit more profound. That's fine.

That's your, that's your opinion on it. And that's great. Now, you know, millions of views and people are going to break down that video forever. Oh my God, Tiger Woods went from a fist pump to a dab with Frankie back to a fist pump. In our world,

that's funny. It's so stupid that it's funny. And we enjoy it. And then the fact that you elevate it to like, yeah, it's a stupid funny thing, but it's with Tiger fucking Woods. All of a sudden, everyone loves that video. And that's kind of what we do. And like we said, it's, I do think that you probably think we're more one dimensional than we are because you don't consume all of our content. And again, that's fine.

We live in a headline type era where you're not going to click through and watch every video and podcast we put out. All of that's fine. I just don't buy that it's strictly like a, well, the PGA tour wouldn't let me put up a video of Tiger Woods swing. And he let you guys put up a video of your. fistbub, and that's why I made that comment because it seems deeper. I know that you've gone out and liked anti-barstool tweets when Deadspin writes a hit piece that says stop enabling barstools bullshit and you're liking those tweets. And back from March, that seems to show a pattern where you don't like what we do.

And it seems hypocritical when you say, oh, if anybody's helping the game, then I want that to be a part of it where I want you to have that access because, again, the pattern doesn't show that that's really what you want. So I'm just trying to figure out, you know, if you're being. honest and what your overall viewpoint is of the whole thing. Is it you want everyone to grow the game? Or is it like you only want people to kind of help and grow the game if they abide by the rules and sort of the traditions that you think they should? No, I think, well, when you bring up the grow the game element, I guess that kind of opens it up to, you know, ultimately there are a lot

of different ways to tell the stories and things that are going on in the sport. And my concern and this is not about you guys, it's more that we're kind of eroding and chipping away at certain standards. And I hate that word too. But the point is that if the sport no longer gets covered seriously in any way, people stop taking it seriously. And it's going to be really fascinating to watch as media companies kind of chip away at all this stuff and as gambling comes into golf, how they deal with all this because the less serious it becomes

and then something actually happens, it's going to be a shock to the system for the players and the tour. So anyway, that's just another side element. But, no, I'm totally four different means. It's just that we have been dealing with kind of this hostility from, from the golf organizations for a long time. And so it's great that you guys are coming in and pushing the boundaries and showing them these things. I guess what ultimately truly really bothers me is that the average fan can go out

and shoot video, take things, do all these different things as part of the Live Under Par lifestyle. And then we just spend so much of our time in the old media, trying to just scratch and clawed access to players, to put up Instagram stories or whatever it is. And it's frustrating. I mean, you have to understand. It's really difficult to do your job sometimes

when you're constantly dealing with these kinds of rules. When you know that the things that do appeal now to the audience, or at least part of the audience, are a lot of different things that involve social media, video, and storytelling that way. So that was what I would ask you guys to do, is to consider the other point of view from that perspective. This is not just like a recent one-year thing with the rules or last few months.

This is an ongoing dilemma for the sport. And, I mean, just look at this week at Capilua. We have that funny conversation with Patrick Cantley. That disappears on the rear. We have Chris DeMarco tweeting last night about Patrick Reed's interview. years. That disappeared. And, you know, it's just, there's a lot that goes on to make coverage of the sport difficult. And I don't think a lot of it's very productive, frankly. And we 100% agree with you on that. We very much considered and talked to the tour about this about just going to the

President's Cup as fans, because we can do a lot of the things that you just said. Oh, you're telling we can post pictures of the golf. And if somebody, the player comes over, recognizes us from outside the ropes, we're actually allowed to put more content up than if we are inside the rope. So we've had to have those conversations as well. It's just, I guess my advice to be like, instead of, like, your version of evolving shouldn't be to take shots at us. It should be to try to figure out something that's going to work because our version of evolving wasn't to take shots of you, or shots at you. It was to go do our fucking thing. Go get player interviews. Go have Justin Thomas and Zander Schaftly try to out drive Frankie, lefty, you know, whatever we can figure out how to evolve and

get millions of video views, which we've done and we're going to continue to do. So it just sort of to us, Jeff, and I don't want to keep beating the dead horse, but we see this a lot where, too, where people that have an issue with bars to them, we're in all kinds of different lanes now. So it happens, whether it's football, our baseball guys, our golf guys, our hockey guys, whatever, are going to run into issues with establishment, older, younger. We get that you're not that old. We're just giving you a hard time.

but your brain's a geeseer. The fact that, you know, the fact that people take shots at us and then sort of get, woe is me and play the victim card or whatever you want to say, when we respond and defend ourselves is another area where we have a major problem because it's a pattern that we see every single time where people write a hit piece on us or people take a shot at us. And then when we respond and defend ourselves on social media or wherever, people sort of get, oh my God, look, Barclos coming after me,

when in reality, Barclos just defending ourselves. And we, as the golf branch, is foreplay, we're just out there defending ourselves and putting our opinions out there in the same way that you are, the same way that your opinion is that Patrick Reed cheated and that he should be reprimanded or he should, you know, there should be more consequences for that. Our opinion is like Tiger Woods is awesome. And when he fist bumps us, it's really cool.

Like we all have opinions and whatnot. We get ours out there. And ours in this case is going to be us defending ourselves. and we, that's just, that's what we're going to do. So again, it does feel like when people fire the first shots and then the retaliate, or the response comes back, that they're not, they're not ready for it and that they then try to spin it in some way. And that's not fair to us in a lot of, in a lot of ways.

Yeah, well, I'm not going to spin it. I took a shot at you. And a little bit was, as I explained, a little bit was quite a bit of his, you know, frustration at what's been going on. and I'll own that. I, you know, and I own the fact that my name is spelled GEOFF, which is about half your followers seem to take as assigns some sort of some worse spelling of that name.

You can agree. At any point, at any point did you think you, maybe I'll change this thing? Maybe I'll go J-E-F-F. I can just say G-off and it's over for you. Like that's just, you can't have a normal conversation. No, it's very Google-friendly.

Yeah. You just type G-Off and golf. My website comes up. It's very handy in that way. So now it's, you know, I've asked my parents, because my last name's not exactly easy to spell what they were thinking, and I really haven't gotten anywhere with that. It's the perfect name for the argument that we got in during the President's Cup. I will say that. New Media versus Old Media.

Jeff Shackleford is perfect. Because you can just say Shackleford. It's like a villain name. Like, ah, Shackleford's at it again. And you bring up the website. They used to be so, like, British, huh? Yeah. You bring up the website, too, which just makes me think also, like, you talk about how much we bring it, make it about ourselves.

I know we can just keep going back and forth on it, but I think anyone listening to this, especially our fan base for the last 20 minutes and how we're going back and forth, it does come off a lot of it as just jealousy, right? Like your guy's media and your version of media is a little bit pissed off that you guys work, your ass off, and I'm sure you do.

I mean, like you said, you've been blogging for 15 years, however long it's been. You have jeffshackleford.com. And I just think, like, don't, like, we have the same regulations and rules. That's what's making me so bad. I'm sitting here listening,

and everyone's going back and forth. It's like, we do the same. Like, if we do the same. If we switch... We just figured out a way to just make it better. And if Jeff Jackleford.com took off and was the barstool sports of golf media 10 years ago or five years ago, like in your website, which you have your picture and your name everywhere and your Twitter bios and your Instagram accounts, and you want to be this, like, well-known social media guy, clearly because you're grinding on this website,

then, like, you would be doing the same things. It's just you haven't figured out a way to have fan bases, enjoy your interactions with Justin Thomas, and have people mess around with, like, the way you just. chip and hit drives like that's the way we do it we don't put up uh tiger woods's golf swing we put up us like making funny faces about tiger woods's golf swing and it's not because like that's exactly what we want it to do to start they just won't allow us to do the thing that you're saying they don't allow you to do we're in the same boat we do the same shit we barely are able to get inside the media tent we just figure out a way to get it done that's just how barstool works

that's what dave portnoy instilled in us i'm sure you hate him too because you just hate everything about the way we do things but that's just the way he's taught us to do things go out and you get it done. You don't sit there and complain and send stuff like they shouldn't be doing this at all these places and getting allowed to go play the Mulligan challenge at Shinnock, which I'm sure that also pissed you off because Dave Portner just went to a U.S. Open course and hit a thousand golf balls with a million different puts. Like, it's just, I know this stuff pisses you off. And it should because you're working so hard to do the same thing as us. And we're getting millions of views. But I just don't think you should take it out on us. It should just be like, adapt, learn.

Like, the thing that you've done for 15, 20 years is dying. Like, I don't know, I don't understand why you have to try and take us down or make us come closer to you. You should be coming closer to us. I'll give you a lesson on how to get people to, like, engage in golf Twitter now. Because that's the world we're getting into. Oh, wow. There's lots on back there. Yeah, I mean, I'm not looking to, I'm not, I started writing books about club history

and golf really, really off the grid golf architecture kind of stuff. So I have evolved in a different kind of way. I'm not looking to try and have a huge audience, to be honest. I'm looking to just do the things that I love to do about covering the sport. And so it's just a different, it's a generational thing. It's a little bit different. But I'm all for as somebody who has evolved with the time. I never imagine doing television work.

I never imagined doing podcasting, talking for a living. It just wasn't my thing. So I've evolved in different ways, but I just think that I hope you understand that it is all in the name of trying to make the game better. We just have different ways of doing it, which is fine because they're different audiences. I mean, Bob Mennery brings in a different kind of audience. I think it's great. He gets fought hard on anything he does on golf, too. So I think I would hope that, at least in this conversation, you understand,

I think jealousy is a strong word. I would say frustration that they seem like there was a double standard. Now, what you told me is encouraging, and not that I want to see regulated, but I am glad to see that they attempted to have some consistency of the rules and have you in a certain place that allowed you to do what you did. I think that's fantastic that you are trying hard to break down those barriers because I think it's a real problem for golf.

Again, in the coming years, the tour, I just, they're going to have to, all these events are going to have to figure out how to adapt to a lot of different ways that people want to cover things. And it happens in every sport, Jeff, and then when you throw in gambling, it's going to be insane.

Like we mentioned really quickly, baseball, we had a whole entire show on Barcelona Sports's network called, it was a starting nine, like, live show. And they basically had a thing with MLB where, like, they would post clips and all these things, and it had to be sanctioned through the MLB. Like, we literally do not have that show anymore. They had to adapt within a year because MLB won't allow them to post any sort of highlights.

They can't even post a picture from a game. So you have these two guys who make a living on talking about baseball, and they can't use anything on social media unless it's tweeted out from the MLB. But now they are the number one baseball podcast, and they're running around, they're doing little interviews. They're playing whiffle ball against, like, MLB All-Star guys. And it's just, it's crazy to me that, that, like, we look like we're doing something that, like, leeway.

We have a meeting about how we have no access to these tournaments. We got, we were banned for like three years. How the hell are we going to get into this place? And Trent went to a tournament disguise one time. Yeah. And they banned us for a while. So it's like, we're grinding out here, too, just to do it our way. Yeah.

You know, it's probably our fault. Yeah. Yeah, this is, I probably use the wrong word that that golf will be heard. It doesn't have serious. coverage. It just needs coverage. And right now, in the world of sports, with everything that's going on and where golf is on the rating spectrum,

it should be happy to have any kind of coverage. And it seems like we are all constantly fighting the same kind of thing that there is a you know, there is a, there's a hostility. And plus, you know, all the organizations now have their own media operations

and they want to tell their stories. So it's a huge issue for the sport. And I think golf is worse than, I mean, baseball is more progressive than others, and so to hear that's interesting because I think golf is behind the times compared to a lot of the other sports, and it's going to be an issue for going forward. And I, you know, I think a lot of it does seem to spawn from the fact that we're pretty much in the same boat, where people are upset or upset that were, you know, they're trying to

control all the media. It doesn't make much sense. If you want to promote your own game and your own sport at the highest level, people should be able to share those clips. People should be able to capture anything from TV. The fact that they're trying to scrub the Patrick Cantley thing when that was like maybe the highlight of the whole weekend, maybe up until the way things finished yesterday. Yeah, nothing happened until that. It's, it's, it's, it was so, it's, it's ridiculous and it is frustrating to everybody. I just would say that like rather than take it out on us. And, and, and you know, it makes sense that you

want there to be serious golf coverage. And if you and sit down and do a podcast with the and you guys go through more course architectural breakdowns and whatnot. Like that's great. We can do our thing. Knowing up guys can do their thing. Friday can do his thing and people, I think, but it's up to them. It's up to each outlet to sort of evolve and do it. And so that's kind of where we stand on it, I guess.

Yeah, no question. And I'm glad that we, you know, understand things a little bit better. and I hope you'll have some empathy for the plight of the lowly writers who are, you know, facing some of these bizarre little rules. And then, you know, one other thing that is fascinating in all this is the players have evolved. And you guys, I mean, good for you that you have players who want to talk to you. But it's, it's, there's no question there for some writers who really rely on access to players. to, and, you know, it used to be that if they wrote a story,

it'd be read by the people on television, read by some audience, and that would help kind of tell the story of who the player was. And that has changed. And I don't know if that's, it's just a generational thing or if it's agents now who are kind of hostile to the written word. I don't know. But that's something, you know,

that a lot of the writers get frustrated with. The guys don't even want to answer. or just three minutes of questions after the round. So that adds kind of a whole element to all of this that makes it a tricky time in the media world. So I get that. I think Trent has a follow-up question to it. So you mention a few things.

You don't do it because you care about how many people, you know, read your content, consume your content. I think everybody in this room does this for a variety of different reasons. One of my biggest is because we reach a wide fan base and sometimes rigs and the team gets emails that, hey, I was through a tough time, I listened to your podcast, and, you know, it made me laugh through some hard times. And those are the emails, actually, that I love the most about really doing this. Why do you put out content?

Well, I love certain elements of the sport and just always have. And so I tend to focus, obviously, on things related to kind of the business of the sport, the architecture, the setup, of course, is the way it all kind of comes off on television. Those are the main interests of mine, but obviously I'm fascinated by the majors and tournaments and events like yesterday and how they conclude down the stretch

and the role of different things, whether it's kind of the whole backstory with Patrick Reed and cheating or it's the 18th hole playing like it did 15 years ago and being way more interesting that way. so why can't we take 5% off of their drives? You know, that kind of stuff has just always been what I've been interested in. And architecture, obviously, the main thing I've done work on that side

and seeing where the game was going. So I became kind of a vocal critic of a lot of that stuff, which was another – I found kind of entertaining element of the schoolies coming at me that I was the elitist protecting the old – the old golf courses, little they know. You know, a lot of what I've done is kind of driven by frustration with the cost of the game, the length that takes to play, the inaccessibility of great courses, all that stuff that deters people from playing the game.

So it was sort of ironic that I was getting that because I've gotten into a lot of trouble and made a lot of enemies by pointing out some of these things. So, I mean, I enjoy putting critical stuff out there to answer your question. that generates discussion and it's just a different way of doing it. So while we've got you and you talked a little bit about the course architecture and all that, I would like to ask how you think Capulua presented and played this week because it was, you know, the TV covers, they always struggle with how much to talk about it, how much to kind of seep it into the coverage and all of that.

Capulahoo, of course, got a makeover where they're calling it like a revitalization or something like that. A refinement. A refinement since the last term. tournament because core cred shots, one of their first or their first design, and they've obviously come a long way since. Some of their courses are my favorite courses I've ever played, Friars Head, Cabot Cliffs, and they've got the philosophy that I believe you very much buy into, which is, you know, not really rough. The ball should be running. It should be a lot more about hitting interesting shots in and around the greens, and you should be able to hit more fairways. It's going

to be more fun for every level of golf. If you're not losing a lot of golf balls, and it changes the angles are where the course defends itself and all that good stuff. So I was curious, watching. I know they got a lot of rain, and it was, I was expecting to see sort of a firm, fast test. The greens, of course, played a little bit more firm, and you saw some right out. So just curious, and I know this will give you a chance here in your wheelhouse to talk a little bit more about sort of how the course presented and played this weekend and what you thought about it in general. Well, it wasn't very good, actually, but mercifully at the end, it dried out enough that we got to see some cool stuff on 18, but obviously the rain and then the new turf just made it

kind of a big sponge and it's probably the player's least favorite thing in the world. I think it's everybody's least favorite thing in the world. Soft, Tita, Tita fringe and then the greens were that new green firmness that even these guys with what they do with the ball today could perfectly hold, which is, you know, firm greens are fine, but if you can't land it short, it's kind of screwy golf. So it was sort of a miracle that the leaderboard was as good as it was because those kinds of conditions usually give you kind of somebody just kind of having a fluke week or a really great week and not rewarding the great ball strikers and the people

are putting it all together. So it worked out beautifully that way. I mean, I've that last hour, which was mostly on the 18th hole, a little bit of 17, you know, again, not to sound like an old part here, but that reminded me of Capilua, you know, around the first. the time Tiger and Ells had their duel when they were hitting Woods into 18. And, you know, one of the things we fight so much in this distance discussion is people say, well, you know, we want to see the guys vomit. They're athletes. That's what, you know, has to, that's what's going to grow the game.

And if you were watching yesterday, you saw that that final hour was compelling because, yeah, distance mattered. But the hazard was back in play and J.T. dumped it in there with a questionable. shot. You knew he didn't really like those two holes. He's been struggling with them all week. And then in the playoff, those shots, they all hit into 18 with a wood, trying to get home and two on a 677-yard hole. And just, you know, watching that ball just go and trickle onto the green. Yeah, it's not sexy, but if you like it at all, you're like, wow, that's an awesome shot off a downhill lie. It was pretty, pretty tense, compelling television to me,

and the rest of week have been, you know, a total dud, really, other than Can't Lay and a few other quick moments. So to me, that showed kind of how, once again, you know, when architecture is working and you give these players on their game, that kind of stage, it's just awesome to watch. And so I think the course will be better next year, though, to answer your question. It just was, it looked, it just felt like it was too new in terms of everything to, for the, superintendent to really push it and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it was. It was weird to see if a ball lands two feet short of the green, it stops dead. And if the ball lands six inches on in the green, it could balance and roll all the way to the back shelf.

I thought that was a little ridiculous. But you know a lot more about it than I do. So I was curious to hear your take on it. Anybody else have anything? Anything? Anybody got any more questions? Trent, did I cut you off? No, no.

You're good. Well, you got it covered. Okay. I think, I mean, I guess it would be good to just get a general, just like, you know, fin point from Jeff on just like what you think that we should like how can we go forward here now like have we changed kind of a perspective your perspective on the way we do things by actually talking and not going on Twitter beefs and I know things are just get different right like like even talking to you now at least you come on bars so we always say if one of our our people

that we battle on Twitter or or behind like a keyboard or behind a phone comes and gives us a time a day on Twitter, I mean, on the podcast, and actually speaks to us, you know, you get a lot of points in our book because at least you're able to face the music and talk it out with us. And I love that. So just any closing thoughts from you on that. No, I feel the same way. I have a better understanding, I think, of where you're coming from. I guess my message would be I keep doing what you're doing and hammering away because, you know,

it's a crazy time right now in all forms of media. And look, I get it when the tours and the governing bodies don't want something unflattering to be portrayed. But I don't, it's just so rare when something is being put out there that is really truly unflattering or ugly. I mean, even, you know, somebody can say, wow, Patrick Cantley was caught on the mic, swearing he came off badly. He's like, well, guess what? Most people heard that way, wow, I didn't, I didn't know he had a personality. That was the best thing I've ever heard from him.

I'm a fan now. You know, if you know the game at all, you know, it was just being a catty. It's a long day out there and it's slow, and it's like we're having some small talk. A-Tinger came on and I laughed. He said about, oh, he's not in the moment. Oh, geez. Friday at Capilouille. got 30 more events, he'll be fine.

So I would just say keep kind of highlighting these things because it will help everybody. It will help the sport and understand that the grumpy old, smelly, sleepy guys in the press center are dealing with some of the same things. We've got to put them in a home, Jack. Well, on that same point where you said, Kenley always got personality, Kevin Kisner, our favorite guy on this podcast, we've kind of shined a light on him for people who didn't know who he was. I mean, they knew who he was, but they didn't know the type of personality he had.

You spoke to wanting things to be more profound. I think that's a profound thing that we've done. We've taken a guy who was not regularly or well known in terms of his personality. And now... Hello? Jeff. Jeff. Oh, there's an old man moment.

Jeff. Still hear us? Jeff. Producers checking it. Hello. Jeff can hear us? Yep. Oh, boy.

Hello. It'd be funny if he's running a joke against this right now. Hello. It's an iPhone. Come closer to it. Jeff, can hear us? Walk to another spot in your kitchen. Hey, there you are.

Oh, you disappeared at Kisner. Yeah, well, what I was going to say is you had spoken to the, like, things need to be more profound. Are you still there? Happened again. This is. Yeah? Hello. You hear us, Jeff?

Can you hear me now? Hello. Hey, you're back again. Are you good? You're good? Don't move. Don't move. Good?

Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. All I was saying about Kisner and this wall is just wrapping up really quick is the say of the third time. But like we have shown a light on him and he does have more personality. You were saying things need to be maybe evolving into a more profound direction with our content. But it's like we have shown a different side of him and people,

love him for that. Otherwise, people might not know the type of personality he has. That's all I was saying. Yeah, yeah. No, and I get that.

And I've gotten that certainly, and I certainly hope there's more of that in the future. I hope he's, because I think too many of these guys are way too untrusting. And I don't think it's the players that drive it. I really don't. I think it's the agents who convince them to,

to be boring and not share any side of themselves whatsoever. and it's really, I mean, at least the feedback I get from people is that it's not good for the sport at all. Uh-oh. I left you silent. No. I think we're here. Well, yeah, no.

Okay. What's not good for the sport? The agents? You're talking about the agents like basically shutting up the players? Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, it's not good for the sport that, I mean, I'm getting more feedback from people in random ways, not bringing it up saying, I can't get excited about these guys.

Like, you know, people are drawn to speed, for instance, because you feel like there's a lot going on there, and he's talented, he's neurotic, he's all these different things. And people are drawn to that because they just feel like there's something there, and there's so much going on with all these guys. But they just fight so hard showing it, sharing it. And I get a lot of big sponsors probably kind of like, safe and dull, but, man, it's not, it's not good for the sport.

And then I would also, Canada, the way the game has played is also breeds a more boring person, but we could go down a whole rat hole in all. It's kind of similar to how people like their media, you don't want to hear my own technology. And, you know, getting to know the person more than just like, whatever, blob, bland stuff. Yeah. So it's just the way the world's going. And that, you know, I love this. Like we said, I didn't even know who Kevin, I didn't know Kevin Kisner's voice was until we started the podcast.

Now, now I can't get his freaking voice out of my head. It's like, oh, you just need to put a mic in front of these guys, humanize them. Sometimes and just make them a human, and that's it. Yeah, you also should have been on the presence, Captain, but we don't want to go on that. You absolutely should have. That's a red hole either.

All right, Jeff. That was a weird one. Like Frankie said, we, you know, even though we may disagree, it's you came in, it's obviously the four of us, and you kind of faced it, and you came into Lionsden, so we'll always respect you for that. We appreciate you taking the time, and hopefully we'll, you know, we'll see a round of the events,

and everybody can have more access and create better content. We'll wave to you from inside the ropes when we're dabbing up Tiger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe a little shoulder in the media center. I don't know. A little rubber. Right, yeah, right. I'll drop that oatmeal right out of your hand.

Yeah, all right. Hey, hey, don't mess with a media guy when he's eating. You can do anything else. We're having our free lunch. Don't screw with us. That's exactly right. All right, Jeff. Have a good one.

And again, we appreciate you taking the time. All right. Take care. Thanks, bye-bye. They say that golf is 90% mental, which means that even the smallest issues can have a big impact on your scorecard. We all know that. Because of that, getting a good night's sleep is important, and CBDMD wants to make sure you are getting the quality sleep that you deserve. That's why they created CBDPM to help everyone from first-time golfers to tour veterans, like two-time Masters champion, Bubble Watson, get the rest they need to play their best golf.

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We've been using CBDPM for a few months now, and it helps, especially like on our flight, when our flights that we're about to discuss later on this show, we're flying all the way across the world, whole day long travel. Might be in this kind of shape, that kind of shape. We're trying to get in and out of different jet lag. whatever the hell it is. We've been through it the last couple of months, and it's very helpful to have CBD PM.

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We'll kind of react to it. We got a lot to get to with golf. Justin Thomas wins. He's got three wins, I think, in his last seven starts. His last seven starts are a win, a tie for ninth, a tie for fourth, a win, a tie for 17th, a tie for fifth, and a win. And then in between all of that was a three one and one presidents cup record where he was probably the second best player at the tournament outside of Tiger Woods.

So the point is Justin Thomas really good right now. Somebody picked him in his exhaustive preview, and it was, Riggs. Well done. You got to keep doing them now. Rigsie previews is stuck now. I got to keep doing it. Yeah.

I know I said I wasn't going to talk about it because I'm waiting for the to Peter out. He's one for one. One for one. Is that the only guy you picked to win the tournament? That was your number one pick? My pick. I do a winner.

I do a dark horse. And then I do a dead fucking last pick. And Justin Thomas is my winner. Who did we used to name dead fucking last after? So it's called the DFL, Stephen Bodech and Smiley Coffee Memorial Award. Because those two became really bad at golf. We're posting horrible scores. Steven Bodech has since, I think, like, disappeared.

And it got a little dark because he got, like, the DUI while I was doing that. So I didn't really like to make fun of them much. I still do name the award after him. And then Smiley Kaufman, of course, went from the final group of the Masters to, like, he couldn't break 80. And I feel bad about that, too, because then people like our boy, Amon Lynch does, like, a profile piece on him. Yeah. About, you know, like, how he's trying to avoid the Twitter trolls and all that. I'm like, well, I make fun of them every week in my preview whenever I do it.

You really kick people in there down with that award. It's kind of a tough thing. But I did. I'm one for one. I pick a winner every week whenever I write the previews. And I picked Justin Thomas and he was five to one. And actually saved me because I lost like nine bets in a row. I will say last week we did a little prediction show on who we think is going to have a good year. You and I, our guys battle it out to the end.

Zander Shoffley and Justin Thomas. That's what it came down to. You know, this is a golf podcast. Make predictions. We know golf. That's what it boils down to. If people are going to give us shit 51 weeks of the year because we don't know anything about golf, This one week when Trent Daddy and I were fucking money on our predictions.

We're going to shove it down your goddamn throat. Absolutely. Who did you pick? My laptop died. Okay. So J.T., again, he's been really hot, crazy fucking finish. So the 18th hole at Capulua, you should know it by now. It's 670 yards almost is how long it is.

You hit it way down this hill, the ocean in the background out in Maui. It's a gorgeous hole. And then they sling these draws in there that, you know, and try to birdie the final hole or eagle a final hole. It's a cool hole. It's awesome. It felt like a video game, especially, and we'll get to, like, the whole playoff thing, but it felt like a video game where, like, it's such a cool hole that every time you don't make a par or a birdie, you, like, hit, like, reset hole and you just get back to the T-box.

I felt like I was watching that in real life. Like, they just kept ending up on the T-box with this one with this amazing backdrop. They go, I want to make a birdie on this one. So you just keep hitting reset every time you don't make a par. Like, the only reason I'm playing this game is to shoot a perfect round. And I didn't make a birdie on this hole, so I'm starting over. Dude, how many times even used to play Tiger Woods? you used to make a bog in the first one just hit reset round.

Dude, Pebble Beach. Oh, my God. My brother had, like, the household record at Pebble Beach and, like, Tiger Woods 2003 or something, and the record, I think, was 47. Yeah. And so it was like, if you had to make whatever, six eagles or something and the rest birdies. So the minute, like, the fourth hole, you'd miss, like a six-foot birdie pot, just instant start over. And you could, like, you didn't have to end the screen.

You could just hit restart. You'd be back on the first tee like you said. Dude, I would do it for every game. Madden, if I didn't, like, I would start a franchise. And if like back in the day, like Mark Sanchez, like I try and have a perfect season with him, like not have like an incomplete pass. And like once I'd get like I throw in a pick six. I just turn off the system. Never get past game one.

So it was a crazy finish. Actually, we kind of talked a little bit about it in the interview that you just heard. But, you know, it's out in Hawaii unless you're really focused because there's bowl season going on. There's NFL playoffs going on. You've got to be pretty into the golf to catch it. So a lot of people probably didn't catch much of it until Sunday night, which is great because that's when things got very interesting. and it didn't look really like it was going to be that interest. JT was playing flawless.

He said afterwards that like up until the 16th hole, he's like that was one of the best rounds of golf I've ever played. He just could not miss. It was very windy conditions. Scores are way higher than they usually are at Capilu. I think like Ernie L. Jordan Speeth have both posted 30 under or better there as winning scores, and the winning score was, what, 14 under that three guys got in a playoff with.

So the wind sort of defended the course, but it was a crazy fucking finish. J.T. playing lights out. Finally comes to, he comes to 16, and he makes kind of a sloppy bogey. He's got a one-shot lead. Coming down 18, he hits kind of a duck hook drive. Luckily, the fairway's 90 yards wide, so it stays in play. And then he's got a three-wood in from like 3.30 or something,

and he hooks one again into the hazard, which that was a stunning moment because you can hit it anywhere right. You watch guys all week long in that hole. They just blast it right. You hit it 80 yards right. Not a problem. You have an 80-yard wedge in. The whole green funnels towards that back left. pin and like JT did in the third playoff hole when he won like you can almost all have a good

birdie put from there hits it in the fucking hazard they're all down in there looking for his ball there's like two random kids from the crowd looking for his ball can't find it and there was some controversy over the drop because it was like where did it cross uh I guess he did hook it pretty badly and the wind was right to left and I bet on him five to want to win so I was fine with the drop ends up having like a par bid meanwhile fucking Xander Shoffley was only at that point like the six or seventh player of the entire week to hit the green He's got like 35 feet for Eagle. So you're thinking even a feet two pots of JT doesn't get up and down,

the thing's over. He's going to win the tournament. Yep. They fucking both missed. Zander blows it seven feet five. Well, the worst putts I've ever seen. Horrible. Until his other put later on in the playoffs.

Yeah. So he, Zander then, you're like, what, what are these guys doing? Because they're both. I mean, especially Zander is so cool, common collected. That was one of the big talking points we had was like, man, that guy winks at us. He's chill. Nothing phases him.

Borderline in REM sleep every time we meet him. might be asleep and then he's just not only not asleep he's so awake that he jams it seven feet past the hole i've never seen a guy go i've never seen a guy goes that far past the hole especially in like a big situation like that ever they're so dialed in usually where you can get it within three four foot range he blew it by what do you think of seven eight feet i think it was i mean those guys too when you show a 35 foot pot it's like you're almost like please don't make it let alone three put like if you're rooting for him not to win three like i was never three they never three no 35 feet never and he hit you're almost like please he's like he's not he's

hit it. I mean, that puck was, it was almost outside of JT. Probably one and a hundred chance he three putts that. It was crazy. Yeah, I agree with those odds. Like, if you put Zander Shafley from 35 feet a hundred times, there's no chance he doesn't go like 98 and 97 times with the two-pud. I would say it's worse odds that he doesn't get inside like a three-foot circle. Right.

You know, then a two-putt. Like, he might miss the three-footer more likely than he'll jam it seven feet off. I will say it was super windy and like those guys, they all talked about it afterwards about like the wind changes your putts. and if you get a gust, then it'll make it run out, like, four or five different feet. So, like, fine. Still, it's been windy all weekend. Right.

Like, they're the best players in the world. They know that. Just, like, figure it out. And they didn't. It was hilarious. They cut to Patrick Reed while all this was happening, just laughing in the scoring center, who's the villain. He's dressed in all black.

He's got all the negative press over the last three or four weeks from fucking cheating in the Bahamas to his caddy, Kessler, like beating up fans in Australia. And then here's these two guys collapsing on the 70-second hole. and they just cut to Patrick Reed and the scoring time of their huge smile. The fact that they slid back to 14 under and he gets to play now is so... I know people...

We talk about all the time. But everybody hates him, but if you can't find the humor and, like, Patrick Reed, like, realizing they're about to slide to 14 and he's going to be in a playoff, then you know, shouldn't be a golf fan because that was so...

Him, like, walking over to, like, the putting green, like, going to get a few swings in. A plus. And he was dressed in all black looked like the grim reaper here to ruin the party. A plus.

Yep. Here's the guy that everybody fucking hates the dumpy, like, guy that's so annoying. He's got a punchable face, and here he comes. He somehow backdoor it his way into a playoff. Like, do-to-do, here comes, Patrick. It was fucking awesome.

It made the storyline so much better. So then they go to the playoffs, Xander. Like Frankie just said, he hits the green again. He was like an inch onto the green and two. So his swing, I mean, he was ripping the ball. They're hitting these low draws in there that are like skipping up on the green from, they were like three. The yardages that they were out because, like, the ball wasn't rolling.

It was just landing and dying. But they were flying at like 3.30 off the time. No, I mean, I get that it's downhill. Crazy. That's crazy. They were just flying at 3.30. It was stopping the lift clean in place. And then they were just roping three woods from 3.30.

One time the guy was like 360 and hit it under the front of the green. Like, what is happening right now? Like, what are these numbers? I remember it's a flashback to last year's podcast. And we talked about how the numbers, it felt like they were on the moon. Like, there's no way this golf tournament isn't on the moon. Because the 17th hole is like a 550 yard par four. and like JT hit a wedge in yesterday.

That makes no sense. Like 550 yard par five, I know I can't get there and do. JT hit a wedge in. It's like, it's downhill, fine. It's still soft as shit and like they're just flying it that far. It doesn't make any sense. So they go to the playoff. Zander's got like 100 feet or whatever for Eagle.

Hit the worst put I've ever seen since his previous worst put from 35 feet that we just talked about. He basically knew it before as he was hitting it too. He duff the puck. He's like, ah, well, I got to walk towards this now. I've done that before. He did the move. we've all done where you hit the ground with your putters.

I don't know that he actually did, but it looked like it. You just feel like, oh, I shanked it. Yeah. It's like, how to the fuck do I shank a putt? It's incredible. How did I miss the ball with my putter? I've done that so often. I've been on a golf course, though, where through like six holes, I've putted really well and feel like I have a great feel.

I get the seventh green hit a put and I have no feel anymore. I don't even know how to hit a put. He's Danvers Scha. No, I know. I'm just saying I've been. You're alert. Yeah. No, I get it.

It's different. It's different. No, right. He was supposed to, did you see? So, like, Patrick Reed ended up having, like, the same kind of put. It was a little bit shorter, like closer. It was just on the fringe. But he went all the way out to the right.

Zander just never had a chance. He just went straight at the pin. He just missed the put. He just missed the ball. It was like he became one of us for a hole. And then it started taking off. I thought I was just going to go off the green at one point. It was just way too short, way too low.

It was a horrible, horrible. And he actually said, I think, something like, so bad, like, to himself. Like, he looked down. He was like, so bad. JT hit some crazy shots in the playoff which the hole that he ended up winning so they make so Zander 3 Jacks like we just talked about JT and re both make nice birdies in the first playoff hole second playoff hole they both miss pretty makeable puts and for birdie and make pars and go to a third playoff hole third playoff hole JT rips a drive down there and then he's got or no yeah yeah

third playoff hole he had a pretty good drive he's got like the 340 number or whatever again and he legit like chunk skyed popped up a five wood that barely got over the hazard like an inch over just barely like an inch over nobody was more stunned about that shot than the cameraman

he was like all right I know all these balls this is the fucking third time we played this whole I know where these balls are going to land and it just he had to like shoot down and it just barely got over the frit or the the rough ridiculous think about big that camera is too that guy's probably going to contort his whole body to move that thing yeah he's got the whole routine down

and he's got a like to like swinging into a different part of the course like where the fuck is that thing that was all that was a stunning shot and then to speak to like how amazing these guys are then he hits a wedge to like two and a half three feet yeah stunning from there just flushes one and he's talking to this was crazy he's talking with his caddy which i was tweeting about how awesome playoffs are because you get everything right like they don't nothing more annoying than when they just cut to like put after put after put because it doesn't like show you anything it's not that exciting and this like they have to stay on everybody because there's nobody else i'm fucking going

of course, and you get all the conversation. JT. is literally like, should I hit the lower draw or, like, more of a high cut with a fucking wedge from 80 yards or whatever it was? Imagine, Mike. He's got those kinds of different shots with a wedge with, like, a little 80-yard shot. It's remarkable.

I'm just trying to make contact and get it on the green. I'm wondering if that would make me worse. Just because then I'd have to be able to hit two different shots, I can't even hit one perfectly. Like, if I had the ability to put a high cut or a little low draw in there, might make me worse. Paralyzed by options? Yes, exactly.

Too much. I got too many options. I don't think that's how it would be. No. Hits this high cut, I guess, in there and right into the slope, and it just dribbles, checks a little bit, dribbles right up to a couple feet below the hole. Makes that. Wins the golf tournament.

Congratulations, JT. again. He's got now 12 wins, which is one more than Jordan Speefe in his whole career. I think he joined a list of Tiger Woods, Jack Nicholas, Sam Sneed, and Justin Thomas are the only four players in history to get to 12. wins before their 27th birthday. Yeah, it was an outrageous list. What a list that is.

Let's audit those Sam Sneed wins. Yeah, the Sneed one is, he might be at like four at this point. One of those turns was against like, uh, like dogs. Like they just let dogs and the, packs of dogs went on the golf course like, oh, Sam Sneed's the only one that's hitting the ball out here. Major. I would give Justin Thomas's, um, body language when he collapsed on the 70 second

hole after that, an F minus. He was just, I'm so I'm stunned that he won. He was because. and puffing and puffin and puffin he was stunning and then especially after he chunked the three one it was like i think he might just leave he like he is so disappointed himself that he gave up that lead and is in a playoff with zander shawfley and patrick greed right now that he doesn't even want to be there and then attest him to him he pulls out all these great shots and wins but it was for a while there he was just like i can't that was that pre us knowing justin thomas and knowing that he's actually a good dude and like cares a lot about like you know like barstool type stuff and like he's just like one of the guys when we'd say that was that we'd say see him do stuff like that and kick out the fan. I know he was bringing all that bullshit up, but like, when you see him during this fucking tournament, having a breakdown like that, you're like,

oh, there's that little whiny bitch Justin Thomas again. The country club kid that can't get everything like his way. He just hit a fucking bad put and he's going to go run over to mommy and daddy and like, pout. But it's like, he's just, he just wants to win. He wants to win.

That's not so bad. And also it was just a massive collapse. Massive. I mean, I will say they were exposed up there. Why are you going for the green? Why are you going for the green there, right? He wasn't.

He was aiming way out to the ride. He just hooked it and the wind went over there. Even using that club choice, right? Like, he never even had to come close to the green, right? He could have just played it way outright with something that never even wanted. But I think like in order to hit it that, like, you have to still hit it pretty far to get it like over all the shit. As you saw. And how hard he sung at that was some of the craziest shit I've ever seen.

He was like the side down the line. Into the wind. I'm like, bro, like just hit it to somewhere way right. Like I know he tried to. And they were all, they were choked up all week. So it's like just a different thing. I would put the fucking thing. Well, there's a huge review.

Then you'd still be 200 yards out. What are you going to hit a put? You're 340 at that point. You hit a putt. What's the closest you could get to the green? I can do it. I'm 340 out. The fairways were soft.

I can hit a putter off the fairway. How far as that ball? So you hit 150 yard put. You still got 200 yards. Yes. You're smoked. I could hit 150 yard. No way.

Then you still have 100 yards. We did that at, uh, we did. No, it wasn't like 150, but it probably would have went. At Pinehurst? At Pinehurst, like, we were, we hit that one putt. How far was that hole? The first hole on the, uh, on the part three course. At least 100 yards.

100 yards. And we were smoke. I smoked my ball over. Yeah, those went far, but it was firm. It was really soft. It was really soft. Bottom line is Justin Thomas should have gone. Bottom line is that.

There's your putter. The bottom line is that like, it's, I know the wind was crazy. It's a bad miss. It's a horrible miss. Don't even fuck around. Don't even fuck around. But he also kind of had to. You think it like take a long iron?

Yeah, do anything. Like don't put that. He's just saying don't make that miss. Do anything in your power not to hit it left. And I think I would say he was trying to do it anything in his power not to hit it left. And he did. I will say when he swung, I don't know if it was a gust or not. You don't think he was too close to the sun with the swing choice.

No, I don't. No, because I think that he thought very confidently, I'm going to blast it well right. Yes. And the wind's all right to left. So like I'm going to hit a big cut out to the right. And then I think he just double cross hooked it because the very next hole. he's in the same spot and he ripped a three-wood cut like that landed on the green and which so clearly he's not like worried about that he just that's what made me think he was

going for the green there no he definitely he literally said to his caddy he's like where do you want this to come down in the caddy and he was like the right bleacher with the right bleacher is like 50 yards right of the green so he was clearly aiming way right he just hooked it really bad shot he knew it right away too oh yeah oh his body was dead his front hip was I mean he like looked open right at it was it was it didn't look Good. Yeah. It was a bad shot.

Bad shot.