Fore Play - Jam-Packed with Alan Shipnuck & Adrian Rietveld

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

Alan Shipnuck (01:23:22). TaylorMade Adrian (00:25:07). Tommy Fleetwood makes an appearance. Kevin Kisner says a few words. It’s a Jam-packed show live from the PGA Championship delving deep into Phil Mickelson, players’ club choices this week (including Tiger), stories about Tiger’s irons from Tommy Fleetwood, course expectations, and our mischievous week on-site.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Yeah. Foreplay, presented by Barr Stool Sports. We are live from the driving range here at the PGA Championship 2020. And I think that the phrasing we're using is we have a jam-packed episode of Foreplay leading into the year's second major championship. We have one of the hotter men in the streets in terms of golf journalism and golf headlines right now, Alan Shipnuck, whose book on Phil Mickelson came out this week.

His quotes from that book, his excerpts in February, basically for the time being, ended Phil's public golf career. So we have nearly an hour. I think it's 50 minutes straight with Alan Shipnuck, into everything about Phil. And then also we have our boy Adrian from Taylor May golf, who goes into all the equipment choices that players are making,

including in insane detail on Tiger Woods. And then Tommy Fleetwood joins the show with him to go through it. So I wanted to get that in, Tread. But go ahead. The rip-roaring biography. Unauthorized biography of Golf's most colorful superstar. It's the name of it. I believe that's the name of it.

We go over that a lot with Alan, but I just wanted people to know off the top what that book is called. And it's a good book. Alan was a great guest. You know, I just three weeks ago talked about how, you know, books bore me from time to time. And I like to watch movies. And obviously when it comes to biographies, you need books. Because you're anti-books a little bit.

Yeah. Could turn into a documentary. Fair Night 451. If I start recommending books to you, you think you'd read them? I told you, I haven't finished it, but that Dave Grohl book I was reading while I was arguing about not liking books. I had the book in my hotel room that. That's right.

Can you recommend books to me? I like books. I want to read that one book where they go to Mars. Fuck, I just keep thinking, I keep forgetting the name of it. Everyone says it's my, it's right up my alley. Anyway, Alan Shipnuck was great for an author and like a nerd guy that I thought was going to be nerdy. He was fucking awesome. Super down to earth.

Really cool guy. I could talk to that guy for hours, even though I didn't really talk much in the interview because I did not read the book yet. He's also the side of this world that we're just not. And it's good to have different perspectives on this show. Like we talked about last show how we show up to these majors, these events with no plan and just hope good things are going to happen. And then they sometimes do when we get to hang out with Tiger Woods for an hour. But then there's guys like Allen and there's guys like Danny Rappaport and Dylan DeCare who are here hunting for stories and have a plan on what. what to do. And it's just good to get that into the mix a little bit just to see what that

side is like. And they're necessary. Big time. Those guys are incredibly necessary. And they are not part of the guard that has been, uh, opposing of us arriving. They've been much, they've very much embraced us on the scene. Yeah. There was some confusion with the old man golf stuff when that was all happening that like, we don't like, um, traditional like print media. I just said how to bones. You did just say how to bones. We talked to bones on the range yesterday. I just said how to bones is up. Bones got us waters. He walked over, didn't even ask us, came back and Hannity's one of us waters. Dekeu Matsiyama are with incredibly calm demeanor, I would say,

bones. Oh, this is so cool. But there's, hold on right way with it. There was a little bit with that old man golf media stuff that. All right, Decky. We, um,

the people didn't think that we liked traditional media. Right. He just got literally next. Nope. The only thing, the only problem we had, pan behind you, Brendan, behind you, Brennan.

Was that we, they attacked us. Over here. Over here. Over here. Over here. They attacked us. You were making me nervous.

Old man media attacked us. What's going on here. You just help he held the camera on you're continuously just talking about all that media Yeah because I don't just in our career right now. Yeah, but he's not coming over here. No, I know It's just talking about surroundings and for the people on YouTube they were watching them. That's true It's fucking insane. My point is I don't we don't need it anymore. I kind of lost my train of thought there The interview with Island Shibnock is phenomenal. It is a very he's a very human he's a human guy When I say by that is like when you're writing books about somebody if you're not very much a

to like humanity and reality. It could be easy to kind of skewer people. And we get a lot into what that process is like and the empathy that's required and that he sort of exercised in writing the book. I thought that part was phenomenal. We talk about the off the record on the record stuff. That stuff is phenomenal. We get into Phil Nicholson.

Obviously, it's glaring that he's not here. Every player that's done in an interview has been asked about that. The word that they've all been used is pretty much sad. They all are calling it sad that Phil's not here. So that's a huge storyline. And we talk obviously a ton about Phil with Alan Shipnub. And he's done a great job of, yes, being part of the legitimate journalistic writing crew, while also now, you know, spinning that off into the Fire Pit Collective with him at Janella,

telling stories in a much more modern way. They've guys have done a phenomenal job. So having Shipnucks on, awesome, his book, Phil, the rip-roaring and unauthorized biography of Golf's most colorful superstar. Fucking crushed it. That is now available. So go buy that and read it. Trent and I read it. Frank.

Frankie didn't. I thought a bachelor party. And then Adrian... Would you have read it if you didn't have a bachelor party? I would have skim through it. Okay. Adrian Rietveld, is that how you say his last name? Who's the man who comes on and talks all about equipment?

He's a golf nut. That stuff is so fascinating decisions these guys make. He talks about actually how important it is for even the average golfer like us to get fitted because they pretty much with one swing. Even if you think you're inconsistent, there's no way I might be one player on Monday and another player on Tuesday. They actually just instantly get a mold of what you're, your swing is like and what your tendencies are like and can fit you to the best clubs.

Taylormates the best at that in the world. They have the number one golfer in the world, which is a good friend of our, Scotty Schafe, where the master's champ. They have Tiger Woods, the best player to ever play the game. They have Rory, who our guy, you're not going to believe Adrian's reaction. We talk about Rory's chances this week. If you don't watch this podcast on YouTube, if you are just a Spotify, iTunes person, that's fine.

But this time around, go to this time stamp. Go to the timestamp of watching. About six minutes in, five minutes and 30 seconds. in go to YouTube. Go to that and then, but I want them to see Adrian's, I want them to see. I got that fucked up. I want them to see. You have to go when he comes on. I want them to see Adrian's face

when he talks about Roy McRoy. So watch this one on YouTube if you get a chance. Watch it on YouTube, check it out. And then... Five minutes and 30 seconds. And there's a lot of things that have gone on that we have to get to as well. First, we got to talk about Sirius XM. You should be listening to the SiriusXM app at home or anywhere you are no car required. Our friend Colt knows, we talk to a lot this week. He's on the PGA Tour Series XM channel.

You heard about Frankie's holeout on. 17. Yeah, he did. He was actually perpetuating that rumor. Yeah. Yeah, perpetuating that rumor on on Sirius X-M. We ghosted him in New Orleans. Yeah, he's still upset about that. Yeah. Well, I took dinner with him and he was like, you guys are going to come grab a drink. I said, I'm going to go bring Trent home. And we just never came back out. And he texted

me the next day. He says, still bringing Trent home? Yeah. See, you go see, I go see. I'm, I make it very clear whenever I'm, wherever I'm at with whoever I'm at. Like, when I'm done here, I'm leaving. I'm going back. Yeah. That's it. So then. Frank you can do whatever he wants to do. And yeah, he's still taking me back to the hotel. Sirius XM, you can stream it all on your phone online or at home. Over 425 channels are on the SiriusXM app. Enjoy ad-free music channels for every genre and artist-ded-dicated channels.

Catch the live play-by-play of games from every major sports league in 24-7 sports talk from the biggest names in sports. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free of the SiriusXM app. You visit SiriusXM.com slash forward play pop. offer to sign up offer details apply once again please visit serious xm.com slash for play pod offer to sign up subscribe now get your first three months for free of the serious xm app and then we also have dustin johnson video that came out uh that's not in this podcast that's on youtube and it's just available right now we have dj shows how to get stingers somebody tweeted at me a very funny video

my reaction to one of his stingers and i was just jumping up and down because it was so awesome but he ripped stingers and then he plays against us in a rematch he plays left-handed used my golf clubs which was pretty wild something i forgot happened until we re-watched the video um i kind of was just carrying my golf bag and he's like can i get a 60 degree and i just like handed him mine and he's using it he's like looking at him and handing him back and he's like you like you like this putter and all this kind of wild so again these videos are so insane that you forget that they happen it's like you have to remind yourself what the fuck is actually going on around here that we played again against dust and john

And even like we're so busy this week and most weeks where like we're at the PJ Championship. We were doing the Tulsa Tango last night, which was an incredible event. It seemed like everybody had a blast. And then like as that's going on, I'm like, oh yeah, we have a Dustin Johnson video coming out as well. It's just, the boys are doing a lot all the time. So we do get desensitize sometimes.

But please go watch that Dustin. We've had a dominant week. We've had a dominant week. Tiger Woods, obviously. We took over the world. We've been doing kind of a victory lap for a few days. Yeah. But then like you're saying, we were at the Tulsa Tango, at LaFontontas.

Go at La Fortune Golf course. Under the lights, it was like 8 o'clock at night. And while that's happened, we have how many people? It was like 120 golfers, just like a last minute tournament that we put on. It was like the most insane thing ever. Two-man scramble par three tournament. As that's all happening, I'm looking out at all these hundreds of golfers that are playing with us. Yeah, we're playing with Dustin Johnson on YouTube live at that point.

I'm just like, how the fuck is all this happening right now? It's kind of a mind fuck. There's Ian Poulter just walked by. Do you want to have him on the show? Ian Poulter just walked by. He's pretty tall. He is pretty tall And he always has like a backpack

He never looks like any of the other guys Where he looks like the guy That's like part of the team Not the guy that the team is around 100% Yeah Which I actually kind of like that about him That he's like you know

I think if he came over here He'd punch me in the face I don't think so We're Trevor Irman's He's Trevor Irman So yeah I'll text him We'll get him on the show And then he looked up like

30 seconds later He's like He's never gonna show He hates you guys You know we need something to like Bridge the gap We need to learn about like Ferraris Or like F1

We really need to learn how to like berate you know how about this next tournament that we go to wear a Ferrari hat okay maybe do a little bit of research i know i don't like reading but a Ferrari f1 what's your favorite team that fun i don't have an allegiance yet i'm uh i became a huge lewis hamilton fan yeah but that's because i thought he got so fucked at the end of last year yeah i i'm not caught up that's okay okay that's just didn't want any spoilers no no uh i mean it's a yeah i i wouldn't say it's I don't know that you can do that with like live sports. I think that's different.

I think the F one is different because think about... It's like live every weekend. It happened like a year ago. Okay, okay. All right. All right. I'm feeling attacked. But like Logan Spence like bogs about it every single week.

No, okay. But think about this. Think about when you first are watching the show. That stuff had already happened and you didn't know anything. Right. That's why I said. I think it's a little different with sports. But it's the same thing.

Okay, okay. But that was far enough in the past. It was like five years ago. What's the same show? When the show first comes on, it came out a couple of years. years people sort of watching it like after all that stuff had happened. I thought you meant like think about when you're watching a show like fucking

Ozark or something talking about this specific specific documentary series. I know. Okay. I think something that happened within the last six, eight months. I don't know that you can really blame us for spoiler because like it's a it was like a lot. As far as Hamilton was the driver of the year and you don't want to know any of that information because you haven't watched the Netflix recap of it.

I'm just that's fucking insane. Thank you. I'm just saying that I think. there's probably people out there who watch that show that don't watch the F1 races. Okay, but don't watch it, but like, you're going to see it on Twitter. With that choice, by not watching the F1 races, you now have given up your right to not get spoiled because it's an F1 race. I'm not trying to spoil you. I'm just saying that, like, I'm not going to feel bad if you get it because it happened in real life like six months ago.

It's like saying, like, you've chosen to not watch Ozark for like a year and then get mad when people are like spoiling. Like I would say a year for a regular TV show. that's how in the moment F1 is. I don't agree with that whatsoever. It's also like whoever did one or lost that race was on like sports center with scabendmpel. Like that just happens. It's TV. You know,

you don't see what we're saying? What I'm saying is that when you first started watching this show, it's that situation. But my point to that was that it was so far in the past that I think, right, like when I started watching it, it was like four years ago. So clearly I haven't you don't want to give people that same chance I want to give them a chance but I don't think I should have to feel bad if that chance gets ruined because like it's a real talking point in contemporary For us not being F1 fans and we watch drives to survive we don't have the right now to be like like if we're talking to an F or someone that actually watches F1 we can't be like oh I just start watching this show so don't tell me anything that's having the last four years of sport They're going to be like, what do you, like, that's not my fault that you didn't watch sport. You haven't watched.

I wouldn't, I think that's totally fair. That's happening every weekend. I think that's totally fair. Really? Like if someone brought up Game of Thrones. So you, so then you should not watch the NFL and then watch Tom Brady's documentary. It comes out in ESPN Plus and be like, don't tell me what happened to Super Bowl. No, because that's a very popular U.S.

I'm saying everyone's pretty new to this. They're pretty popular. Yeah, they're doing like two Grand Prix now in the U.S. But not here, I'm saying. You have this. Well, not. Hulsa, no, but like... No, don't be an asshole.

Don't be a fucking asshole. All right. Don't condescend him. He's not a dosa. Cut his fucking mic off. All I'm saying is that... Get angry. I didn't get much sleep last night,

for being honest. Really? Yeah. Why? I don't know. I just couldn't sleep. Did you have a snickers? Can someone get this guy's snickers?

You're not yourself when you're hungry. Bones will get you one again. You're not yourself when you're hungry. Let's move on. I was right. So a couple things I want to touch on. picks for this week. We're all going to hammer roar, and you'll hear why in a few minutes.

And then I have to shout out Kirk Minahan, who said, Sam Burns, Cameron Young, and Davis Ryeway. That's a group that's going off tomorrow morning. He said, someone from this group will win the tournament. Now, the only reason I bring that up, I texted back and said, you're a delusional moron, but he's been really hot this year. And a few people have called. He does calls on his show, and Kirk's golf obsessed.

So people call in. One guy hit him with, like, I think it was for the Valspar, hit him just randomly with Kirk, who's going to be the lowest European finish this week? And he just goes, uh, Matthew Fitzpatrick, book it. And it was Matthew Fitzpatrick, like, in a landslide. And then, like, he, that same week, they were like, who do you like to win? And he's like, well, Sam Burns, Sam Burns won that tournament back to back year.

So, like, the only reason I'm throwing that out there, yes, I think he's a moron. He also said Tiger Woods was going to miss the cut. But if you, I want people to be aware that he's been pretty hot this year and he threw those picks out there. we are are we agreeing that we're all going to at least sprinkle something on scotty sheffler because we're pissed that we didn't at the masters and he's the most obvious choice in the world and then he just won it Wednesday at whatever time it is 2 o'clock what time is it pretty close 257 27 he's plus 1100 I think of the barcel sports book you consider that pretty close yeah well gauging off the fact that we have no idea yeah right I don't know what time we got here like we've been here for three hours for us I have no idea Look at the sun. I have a buddy that was in the Boy Scouts.

And he could tell the time by putting his hand to the horizon and how many fingers went up to the sun. You could go off when the sun's going to set. And every finger is like an hour or half hour? Sounds like going to happen to year. Huh? Does it change of what time a year? Dude, I don't know. He doesn't really in our friend group. If you played baseball

if you were younger, it sounds like a nerd. It's like a nerd. And we have to go get it. Like, can't throw the baseball over the fence while we're in the game. I'd like to say yesterday we hung out with Joey La Cava for like an hour and that guy is the best man in the world I love him so much I don't know that I've ever met someone that I've liked more you guys are perfect

for each other you too are now we just like gel and we connect and I like I'm not the biggest like eye contact guy like I struggle with like keeping contact with people especially ebugs got good he's got a good looking face and I know someone here I know so not who's not here is a huge eye contact guy

oh lurch huge drives me crazy behind the wheel mostly especially when he's driving well he's specifically the way he's driving but Joey will like, I contact with everyone in the vehicle. He just, he locks you in. Like when he says something, you're like, oh, shit, I'm in the zone now. And we just, I don't know, he's a Northeast guy.

He's a huge Rangers fan, Giants fan, Yankees fan. And I just think he loves sports so much, loves all the draft picks and college picks and all the guys coming up in the Rangers system. And I know a lot about that stuff. So I'm able to connect with him rather than someone else. He kind of smiles as he says everything. He does, yeah. He makes you feel good.

Yeah. It's like, this is a positive interaction. He's like, let's golf. I have a couple months off in between, like, you know, majors and stuff. You're like, with me? You want to go to me? Yeah, he literally said, like, I'm playing next week. You want to play?

I was like, I'm not the fucking Barcel Classic, but I can just change my schedule. I'll just not be at the barcel. Yeah, he's just the nicest guy of all time. We also talked to SVP today. We did, yeah. Who equally has that same aura around him where everything he says, you just want to make sure you're paying attention to because he's the nicest guy ever. He's so thoughtful and he's well-informed and he just want. Just another guy from like,

My childhood. I'm in childhood, like, just my teenagers. I went to sleep watching SVP when he got that midnight hour. Yeah. Is SVP the top sports media figure in the country? Probably Charles Barkley, I think Trent would say. I think it's Barclay. But I think they're close.

I think they're close. SWP has the midnight. In terms of overall star power. Primetime ESPN, his own show. I mean, he's a superstar. I'm not, when I say Barclay, I'm not taking anything away from SVP because he's a legend and a superstar. I think it's close.

I think those two are very close. I think I think Chuck is like my favorite. Stephen A. Smith is up there. I think SVP is though just like. Yes. Like Stephen A. Smith is a caricature, right? To a degree. He's huge.

No, he's huge. I'm not saying he's not, but he's a bit of a character. SVP is just SVP. Yes. He's himself. He interviews everyone. He, he delivers and anchors everything. Like he is just, he's as big as it gets.

When I saw you guys talking to him, I was like, whoa. Every time he's one of those guys where every time I'm talking to him, I can't believe you're talking about this guy. And dude, he knows about us. He did. to talk to you about the aisles, Borelli's. We're not even wearing, you're wearing a barstall tris fusion thing, but, you know,

and Stanford, Steve, I've gone out for drinks with him, so I knew that he was going to remember us. He's a big barso guy, big cat guy. They both are, but we dapped them up, and I'm like,

oh, he's not going to fuck remember us. Like, we had a half an hour conversation with him last year, Kiwa. The guy talks sports every single night for a living and meets a billion people.

First thing he says to me is, he's like, man, we're missing your islanders runs at Borreleys with Stu. Like, holy fucking shit, man. Scott Van Pelt. That's SVP. Him and I got into a disagreement that I wish he would come on the podcast we could talk about with the golf shots.

Yeah, you did. And I also wanted to, well, no, actually, I was almost going to do this thing to tell him how big a fan I am of him. I used to tweeted him where in the world is SVP when I saw a bald guy wearing headphones. And I think one time he were tweeted, it was like the biggest one in my life. That's awesome. I have to go back and look on my Twitter. But that's how big of a fan I am, that he does shit like that, that I used to do shit like that with him. But yes, you guys did get into a huge debate

where he was like taking his glasses off and looking at you being like, you know, he goes, you know, um, what's going on? There's a spider on your trip. What a day. Dude, just fucking just hit him out. I hate spiders. Just take you.

Oh, he's really close to your chin actually. Where is it? He's on your, oh, you got to find him. Somebody, somebody, I don't see. Am I looking at two friends or no? Oh, yeah, yeah. Am I looking at two friends or no? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. All right. We did that for content. We had to do that. All right. You guys got into a debate about... You're riding your lanyard. Do guys scoreboard watch?

Yeah, so who was the tour pro that we had on recently? Because we've always had tour pros on and we asked, do you scoreboard watch? And they almost... You can barely finish the question before they say, yeah, you have to. You got to know where you're at. And then someone had said, play the shots to its merits. Doesn't matter. You just have to respect the shot and play it.

And that's the best way to do it. And I thought that was interesting. And I brought that up to SVP. And he said, yeah, that can only go so far, though, because... And he brought up the example of the heat played the... Celtics last night and if the heater down by two or three like they got to know what kind of shot they need here at the end so it was an interesting debate and I get what he's saying but I would like to I'd like to talk more about it with him you got a nice debate was that's VP yeah yeah glasses came

off they were cleaning them while they're talking oh wow both huge glass we're having a glass glass glasses off when you start taking your glasses off and you start cleaning them as you're talking about something you're really in a debate I should have taken my glass off sorry cleaning no that's what I thought you were going to have glasses off it's like it's a cleaning contest. All right, now we're really talking. Seinfeld's got this whole joke where he says, anybody, it's hard to win an argument with somebody who's smoking a cigarette because once they finish the cigarette, throw it down,

stop on, they're like, and they make their last point and then they walk away. It's something like that. I don't mean to. It's so good because that's exactly, I think when someone takes their glasses off and starts to clean them on their chest, on their shirt, I think whatever they're saying is 10 times more valuable than had it. They're not done that. That says I'm about to put a lot of thought into this next thing.

Big time. And then think about me watching it happen. and it's SVP. A guy who knows more about sports than maybe anybody on the planet. That's conversational dominance. Like an older guy going like, you know,

he's just thinking back. And I'm thinking it's going to be hard to refute whatever point this guy makes. You know, I just, he put some fucking breath on him and cleans him. I don't know about that trend.

It's literally what he did. Yeah. All right. You're in trouble at that point. Yeah, it was good though. I'd love to have him on the show and we can talk about it. Love to.

So we're going to throw out to these interviews here in a second. We're talking about play golf, Myrtle Beach. Which people have now been hitting us up hearing whispers that we're about to go to Myrtle Beach here this summer and play a bunch of golf. I'm, every time we bring this up, I get more and more jacked up for Myrtle Beach. Because I think we're not going to just play golf here, though it's a golf capital world. I want to hit like a wave runner.

I want to see like a shock. I want to see everything. I want to see everything Myrtle Beach has to offer. And I think that's what's going to happen to us. Myrtle Beach, I think, has like gators, sharks, oceanfront property, top 100 courses, munies, beaches. Everything. Sand Valleyball. Can we play Sand Valley Bowl?

What are you saying? Beach Valleyball. Valleyball? Volleyball. Volleyball. I thought it just sounded, it hit my ear. Is it a sand valley ball? It's just sand valley ball.

Beach volleyball. I just, I was going on my, on my Instagram, and man, it's been getting crazy with, like, the suggested for you post on Instagram where it's like, I feel like I'm following a these guys outside. You can mute those. Whatever. I didn't want to mute this one because it was a Myrtle Beach account. It wasn't Myrtle Beach golf.

It was another Myrtle Beach account, but they were showing this one golf hole of a guy. Basically, it was behind the green style, where in the morning he was just cutting the green. And it was just right in the middle of this huge pond. It almost looked like TPC sawgrass. And I was just, man, that place, like there's just thousands of golf courses like that in that area. And it's amazing, the quality of courses.

There's a, it's not just the quantity. It's the quality as well. No matter where you book. You're going to have like an outrageous experience. It is the golf capital world and is the home to the Wackamall Golf Trail. Wow. The Wackamaw Golf Trail features 11 of the most sought after courses in Myrtle Beach area from famed designers Gary Player, friend of the program, Tom Fasio, Jack Nicholas, and Mike Strance.

Two of the courses on the Wackamall Golf Trail, TBC Myrtle Beach, and True Blue Golf Club have been ranked among the top public golf courses in the country. And the foreplay crew, yours truly, are going to be featuring these courses. our upcoming trip to Myrtle Beach later this year. Get the best deals and discounts on lodging and golf when booking your trip through MyGolftrail.com. Visit MyGolftrail.com and receive a free round of golf. You are welcome on the Wackamaw Golf Trail in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

So we have, next up, Adrian Rietfeld, who is from Taylor Made. He's one of their top guys when it comes to equipment at events. He's all over. He's on that truck. He's dealing with Tiger and Rory and Tommy and all these guys. Tommy Fleetwood joins this conversation. We're going to throw it to Adrian. We're going to come back.

We're going to do a little bit of from the gallery. And then we're going to throw it to Alan Shipnuck. And then we're going to go have ourselves a great tournament weekend in Scottsdale, which, by the way, if you're listening to this show, then you are in the Arizona area. Make sure Casa Amigos bar, restaurant, awesome spot, fun. From around 11 a.m. on until the end of the coverage, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

We're going to do live stream. And we're going to do a PGA championship watch party with Owens Mixers at Casa Amigos. in Scottsdale. Lurch is going to rejoin the crew. Oh. We're going to be there. The producers are going to be there. I thought you're going to have more room on our logos.

Jake Bass and Brendan Jones are going to be there. Trent Ryan, Frankie Borelli, Riggs, Lurch. Can't believe I'm going back to Scottsdale. I want to go back to Scottsdale. I do.

I want to watch the, I want to watch the PJ. Is Hannah Cook going to be there? Hannah Cook's going to be there for the Barks of the Classic on Monday and Tuesday? She'll be there for the Barclosel Classic. I'm just, must be busy. I'm just,

it's hot, man. It's hot there. And it's hot here. And I just, you know. You don't really have to say anything right now. We can just throw it to the interview. Just letting you know it's going to be hot. No, it's going to be hot.

No doubt. It's dry heat. Here's Adrian. Ladies and gentlemen, we are joined live from the PGA Championship here at Southern Hills. I would say Adrian is now our major championship. Yeah, Taylor Made Equipment Consultant. What's your actual title? I'm the senior manager for tour.

A tailor-made golf. Okay, we're going to go with... Whatever that is. Yeah, whatever that means. We're going to go with the Barstool of Golf, major championship equipment consultant. I would love Barstool in my job title. Okay. All right.

We can ship business car. This is why Taylor Made in this partnership is next level and why Taylor Made is the greatest company on the planet Earth when it comes to golf. Because I was talking to another person in a competitive, on a competitive podcast. Boo. How the hell do you guys just... Oh, I thought you said another equipment company. I'm not booing any other podcast. I'm responsible by another equipment company.

And they're like, must be nice to work with, like, a brand that actually gets it. You know what I mean? Like, you guys are actually doing stuff like this, and we get to do the media day stuff. Like, you guys are actually aligned with our thinking and where golf should go. You mean a bit futuristic as opposed to his story?

100%. Nice. People listening right now, wherever they are, they're in their cubes, and I'm not going to go about the Johns and the Roberts that are listening to this. The robs are sitting, my buddy Robb, hasn't smiled at work in 13 years.

He literally says he doesn't laugh at work. He just punches in numbers. And then goes home and becomes a crazy person. It's like Hunger Games. But this is what they want to hear. They want to hear what you're about to tell us. Like what's actually going on out here? Like the human aspect.

Why is Rory changing something? And why is Tiger putting in one club and not another club? It's really cool to hear. It's not just like X's and O is in numbers on a screen. So it's really cool. Let's narrow it down a little bit. It is very cool. Tiger Woods will start with him.

He's the biggest story in the world golf, our buddy, my brother. You know, I saw yesterday on the internet that he is not going with a five, where he's going with the two iron. What's the, what's the backstory with that? How involved are you in that? I mean, I would say I'm involved in the background. He's got his key guys around him.

You know, they'll brainstorm ideas. And, you know, when he played a while, you know, when the majors were here before, he hit a lot of long irons. It seems like, although they've changed the golf course, you know, for him, he still sees the course with the same kind of, you know, strategy. Okay. So be it. Even though it's changed?

Yeah. I think, I think the shaping of the holes and stuff, he still sees, you know, you're looking at, you know, the best iron player ever to hit the planet, right? Yeah. So, and this is a second shot golf course where you've got to hit, you know, irons, which are so precise. So you need to be in the fair way to do that? Yeah, fair way off the T, but it's really a second shot golf course, right?

So for him, you know, he's so good at that second shot. And if he can get himself into position to execute that, I think, and I think the big story is the fact that it's a two iron and a three iron that's gone into his bag. I mean, you're looking at taking out a five wood. He's probably the best five wood player in the world as well because he sees so many different shots. And a five wood is a piece of equipment that requires you to cover a huge gap in your bag.

You know, think of how long these guys are, right? So if you hit your driver 320 and you hit your three wood, 280. Right, that's very relatable, definitely. And then you look at your longest iron. If your longest iron is a four iron or a three iron, that's only going 230. So you've got from 280 to 230 to cover. So how you're covering 50, 60 odds of one club, it's a five wood. You can hit you can hit them low, you can hit them high, you can fill that gap.

So, you know, to take that out, he must see the course in a very, very, very. specific way and obviously have the ability to cover that gap with those clubs as well. Right. So when he does, you know, and I think Colin, Colin similar, he took a wood out this week and put a long iron in. A lot of guys. Why are they doing that? Why is the, you know, why? Because to most players and or most fans, whatever, my thinking is like the five wood would come in higher. A hybrid comes in higher and softer. The greens are obviously, you know, going to be pretty firm. And so I'm wondering, why are they basically deciding for something that generally comes in a little lower and more piercing? They're trying to chase something out there?

Yeah, you can chase it off the tee, but there's also going to be 20 to 30 mile in our winds all week. So when you're looking at, you're predicting the weather as well. Gotcha. I mean, you're trying to keep it under these trees, this big, big trees around just. So, you know, try and keep it under the wind, get it. I mean, it's fairly firm. It's fairly firm, but it's also, the greens are not fast. You know, so in terms of stopping the ball on the greens, I feel like because the winds are so high and the greens are so severe, you know, you're going to be able to stop the ball on the greens that they're not, it's not concrete.

So your advantage, yeah, is getting into play, getting into position and then using your kind of mid, mid irons and short irons. I mean, the par threes are, again, right, the par threes are mega. Have you seen them out there? Like 240s and 50? They're crazy. Tiny greens. That guy just walked past there. You see that Nikolai Hogarth.

Yep. I mean, that's an absolute stud. Okay. An athlete, that's that 20 years old. He's won three times already. He shouldn't even, he should still be in college. Care we made athlete yet? Taylor May, yeah.

He's, he's the future, bud. I'd like to see that. Nikolai Hogart. Taylor made won't miss a player like that. Oh, my man. What a line that is. This is if you kind of, in terms of like the future, you know, he's, you know, you should go and watch him at Paul's amazing.

We're in the future not historic. Exactly. And he said to me the other day, he was like, I actually hit a wood into a par three. It's never, I mean, this guy's 195 ball speed. I mean, he's never hit more than a freaking six-iron. One into a part three. That's my good. I think I'm not sure which all the was, but it's talking. He's encroaching on my territory. But that's really interesting that he would do that. Yeah. So he's, and he's got a seven wood in his bag. And he's even said, like we're now on Wednesday. I picked the seven wood out and I said, how's this thing going? He says, I haven't hit it once.

In other words, what he's saying is that the course is not asking him to hit this club, right? He keeps hitting a three-ironer. He keeps hitting something that suits his eye. And so I don't think you dictate what you want to play. The course will kind of dictate to you with what you need to do. And there's going to be, you know, a thing with like compared to the masters, right, we chatted around the masters. This is a new golf course, right? This is a new redesign golf course.

So nobody's played this thing. Right. So they're trying to work it out, right? It's interesting because I was listening to DJ's interview this morning, and he was talking about his three wood and how around here he's actually going to need to hit three wood off the tee. And he was like, I never hit three wood off the T. It's like, I never hit a driver. He's a driver.

Yeah. And he's like, I literally have lived my whole career never hitting three wood off the tea. Yeah. And now all of a sudden I'm going to need it a lot. Yeah. So getting it in plays is key, right? So there's no, there's no sense. There's no first cut.

It's fairway and the fairways are fairly generous and it's rough. And the rough is interesting enough that you feel like you can do something out of it. Right, because we were walking. We walked in every day and you kind of look at it. You're like, I could do me. It's not that bad. But then you talk to Max and he was kind of like, it's tough. Yeah.

If you get greedy, you take the, you know, the club that you kind of 50-50 on. You get a flyer or something like that. It's going to be a tough up and down. I think in talking to like my boss and all like coaches and that type of thing, pitching and chipping will win this tournament. Pitching and chipping, getting up and down, turning turning two shots into two. And they've allowed that. They've given the players the opportunity with all these runoffs.

You get you get guys who can chip out of tough lies and then you get guys. You are very good chippers out of perfect lies. And I think that guy, right? You know, that guy is going to be, he's going to get up and down a lot. We're talking about Tiger Woods, right? Is that who we're talking about Tiger Woods? Well, we're always talking about it. He's number one, number two, and number three on the list of the importance.

I mean, we watched him on 16. Oh, my gosh. He was around that green for 35, 40. Every single ball was just in the hall. Or within a five-foot rated. You think of like Scotty Sheffler short game. Oh. You know, from, I mean, he must be.

Timor made athlete. He must be working his chops around. Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, he can hit every strict tree. He's, he can hit a, you know, he's very comfortable hitting irons off the T's and good iron player. They all play in like Tiger's irons, aren't they? All these guys, isn't that? What about Tiger's wedges? What's the difference between that and someone else's wedges?

Like, what is he doing differently? So it's, it's a line that we, you know, we would have a raw face. So it's everything that we kind of put into our equipment that we would then sell to the consumer. The difference with Tiger's wedges is that he's had all the input on his grinds. So when you look at, and we do sell that part, the Tiger Woods grind, which is a product that we, but he's designed the whole thing. The thing about that is that we're not putting the wedges on grinding wheels. They're mills grinds, so they're on machines which are zero tolerance.

And so what would happen in the olden days in Tygill, you know, he'd tell you about this, you know, that make him six wedges he'd take because they'd have to grind them on a wheel, get the bounce right, get the leading edge right, get the ski right. And once he gets them, then he goes and tests them. And literally he'd hit the note, and he'd throw that wedge away, and he'd hit the next one, and he'd be like, no, he'd move into the buck. And you sell it on eBay for $10,000. No, this was before he was a $10. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, nice, too-sha. But now, because you've got the technology to kind of laser sketch,

his perfect grind once he's happy with it, you take the wedge that you've made for him, and you kind of patted it, and you scan it, and the boys in R&D are tailor-made are just phenomenal, and they'll create six or seven wedges for him, which six or seven will be perfect. They're all exactly the same. As long as they built right.

Gosh, the tiger's that dialed into, like, he knows his sketch. Diled, man. Like he's probably sitting down at a computer with someone being like, no, no, I want this before we like laser it on. Is that involved in that? He's, I mean, he's, he's, he's the artist of his own wedge. He gets the service, right? What the hell is happening around here? By the way, we get that service too.

Yeah. We just don't know what we're talking. Yeah. They told you to like sketch your milling. What would you like? I'd say take exactly what Tiger Woods does and give that to me. To me, that'd be like one of those tests where they're like, all right, draw a tree. And if you like put it with no leaves on it, it means that you're like a lunatic.

tick, like a fresh person. Like to me, I'd, like, draw, like, all these lines and they'd be like, you're never going to hit wedges ever again. Yeah. That's interesting. So around here, since it's tight, it's Bermuda, it's, is there people, are players using different bounces than normal, different wedges than normal? No, I think they're sticking with what they're comfortable with because the bunkers are

quite pretty, right? So that's something that they've got to get used to. And then the fairways, or the runoffs and the chipping areas, like I was speaking to a player yesterday and he said he played Monday and he was like really comfortable around the greens and then Tuesday he felt like because it had rained overnight the ball was just sitting down that little bit more and he felt uncomfortable and he was like so like when he plays in the morning when he plays in the afternoon he feels like he's got to account for that just because of what you know the way the ball's like the condition's so good that you're going to get consistency in the

lie, but it is different depending on, you know, when players. Right. I mean, that's, you talk about attention to detail, right? That's, I was like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. No, no, I mean, that stuff is fascinating. Yeah, you obviously not hindered as good today as you were yesterday. Clearly.

How often do these guys change out their wedges? I think, I think they're all, they're all individual in the way they do that. I mean, there was a, there was a time where we would give Rory a new wedge every couple weeks just literally and you know he's a high spin player he does you know I remember you know you then you have somebody like Scotty who will play a wedge until it's absolutely dead and then and then and then so it's it's everyone's different there's no there's other players that ask that give you back the the worn wedges and they ask you to re re groove them you know and fix it you know

almost like refurbish because they're holding onto the they're holding onto the So, uh, because they like the yeah, exactly. It's just like, you know, the one wedge guy. Right. Right. Since the greens this week, since the greens this week are a little slower. Everybody's talking about that. There's so much undulation that they just kind of have to be a little bit slower. Anybody change anything with putters to make them more more hot or anything like that to make up for it? No, I think that. Because someone do that for the British. Yeah, they do. They do. But that's really slow. Right. Yeah. This is this is that they're just trying to make sure the. greens are playable in all conditions, give it the wind or I mean we were on 18 I was

with Fleetwood on 18 he's over there and we were the pin was kind of front left and he all of us in the group was like three players we all went to like the middle back of the green and it was literally who could who could hold the green let's see you can hold the green just with a put and no you couldn't the ball wouldn't hold the green so and this is you know looking at these greens I reckon there must be like maybe 10 and a half where it's most tour courses are, you know, you can get up to 12 and a half, 13. So there is a lot of slope. There's a lot.

And you have to account for that. But staying under the hole is going to be key. Staying under the hole, I think chipping is everything this week. Getting off the tea, getting into position. I mean, you know, Rory McElroy, man. Rory, Rory, Rory, Rory. Like, I am so so happy. Oh, man.

So we're hearing this. This is Wednesday. I feel real good about Rory Macquarie. I mean, that look you just gave was... Yeah, you're excited. But why wouldn't he be... You know, he's Rory Macquarie. It's a hot take.

Rory's got this course. It's just, it's between Augusta and Savannah, it's called the Hoopie. Hoopie Match Club. Same designer that did... Yeah, Gilhands, right? Gilhands. And I promise you, man, I'm walking around there,

and then I've been to a hoopie and... Rory, an amazing place. And I'm just feeling a hoopie here, man. Wow. Oh, okay. He tears that place up and he just loves it there. He had a little... It's his happy place.

It was my happy place. It was unbelievable, man. But I just like, you know, you look at how the T-boxes like fall into the fairways. Yeah. You know, everything's kind of one piece and you go to his place and he must feel comfortable. Yeah. Do you guys know what the world's most powerful, personalized digital fitness and health coach and official fitness wearable?

the PGA tour and LPGA Tours is. I know what it is because it's on my wrist right now. What's that, Tram? It's a whoop. That color looks cool, like his reminiscing and gave a little flare around a big tournament. Big tournament, maybe. Yeah, you got a different color than we do. Pine green.

Pine green. I got the black. Black like your heart. It does your blood oxygen level. It tracks your sleep. The charger is faster than I remember the other one being. Woop 4.0 is incredible. If you're not on the whoop at this point, I mean, you're either just ignoring all these reads.

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Yeah, I was going to say, I actually haven't used that. And when he said that, I guess if you said the alarm, haptic means it like shakes your wrist. Haptic means it like shakes your wrist. To wake you up? To wake you up? Instead of being like the annoying iPhone. So to wake you up or maybe even to like get you active or something? Dude, I think it's to wake you up because at the end of it's haptic mean.

It's like vibration. Okay. Is that right? It's like it. How confident are you? Give me a percentage. 85. Okay.

But every night right before I go to bed, the bar that usually is the health monitor down there, it says set alarm and I don't do it because I thought it was just going to be like a rach, like a wha-w-wrang-wrang-were 40% today. Is that what you're a little tired? It'll be, yeah, it'll be... I'm at 50-something because we had a couple of cocktails last night. Full disclosure. That's interesting.

I might start using that haptic alarm. My blood oxygen right now, 97%. Thank you. Woop. Resting heart rate, 54. It'd be nice if it was a little lower, but that's pretty good. 54. Haptic is relating to the sense of touch in particular relating to the perception and

manipulation of objects using the senses of touch. Wow. That's pretty accurate. Kind of, yeah. Whoop.com, use the code 4.4.0, save 15% off at checkout. The whoop 4.0, save 15% off. Whoop.com, code 4. So, how much does Rory love in the stealth?

Yeah, too much. I feel like he's just been confident with that thing. I think he's in as good a place as I've ever seen him when it comes to driving the ball and, you know, feeling like he can do anything in terms of his natural shot. shaping in with the driver. I'm loving it. I don't know what you guys are, but I mean, we, you know, we've got,

talk about the fairways and the drivers. There's a lot in play this week, man. A hell of a lot. A lot of those red faces. I mean, we've probably got 13 staff players in the field. It's not a lot. So staff players, guys, contracts the guys that you pay. I mean, depending on, on how the five wood long iron situation goes,

we could have up to a hundred stealth. No way. it's in play yeah wow that's this is what people then don't notice or not not not notice or see but but when you're looking at a at a product and you're looking at a credibility and a validation of the performance of a product that that for me the free agents that are using the free agents but but they all this majority of this field would be contracted so they're not all free agents some of them are just choosing to play you know maybe they've got a 10 club deal or Right, right. And they find the stealth is the best chance they have to win.

The freedom that they have, they're going that way, which is cool. Dude, and we're at the Zerk. We're like, oh, I didn't know that guy had a stealth. I don't know that guy had a stealth. It was staggering. Every T-box we got a stealth. At the Phoenix Open, Kevin Chappell was rocketed. Pat Perez was rocking it, not contracted at all. And we're all like, I mean, I love this day.

And there's a, I mean, we pride ourselves on at least 50% of everything that's free out there should be. tailor-made. So it's a half. You know, there's a lot of brands, there's, you know, six, seven, eight brands or whatever that compete for that space. And if we can have half of it, that's pretty good. You know, it's pretty measurable. Pretty measurable, I'd say. I'm obsessed with the P-770s. And I know, I believe Tiger, the three and the two iron are P-770 this week. Does it concern you that he and I are using the same irons? And me. And you? And me, yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's, what's cool is like in true tiger style, you know, he's got a steel shaft in there, it's in that X100 mid,

which has worked out amazing. It's really, you know, something that he's played and felt for a long time. So he must have immediately gone. That's exciting. And then you look at the head, right, what is he looking for? He's looking for a little bit of heights. He's looking for a little bit of ball speed. And then the ability to hit the Tiger Woods golf shots, which is the stinger and the high draws. And you watch him on the range yesterday. I mean, what a what an intense range session that was um i don't think i saw two two shots in a row where the t height was the same or anything everything was like versatility right and the ball flight was just moving in every window were you guys um i don't know if you guys were at the at the shoot

where they did the where they had all the picked all the glass windows did you ever see that video we've seen it on video we've seen it on video we were not there so watching that was like watching Yeah, Tiger yesterday on the range was like watching him on that day. Oh God. And like I'm literally standing behind him, right? And we've got, you know, you've got DJ, you've got DJ, you've got Tommy, you've got Matt Wolf, got Colin. All about, I mean, there must have been about eight of our guys on the range there. And he was an assassin.

He just, he picked a player and there was like nine windows for that player's face. And he just picked him off one at a time. And at the end it was him and it was him and Matt Wolf, I think. I don't know, whoever it was, but the guy that he was playing against was right on the other end, so his face was like, like down there,

and he just like looked there and just literally nine windows, right, every shot. And I feel like with that 770, he's loving it, and it's not like he's got it this week, right? I mean, he was, you know, we were, we had information

and we had feedback weeks ago that he was loving this, that he was, that he was playing. it and was loving it and that spec I mean obviously we sent him a lot of options and that was where he settled but I think the fact that it's a two and a three is is impressive when you guys get that feedback and that information do they send you the actual

data or is it more just they're sending you their thoughts so so depending on who it is right so tiger's not going to send data he's just going to tell you what he's feeling and what he's thinking and Rob you know Rob who's yeah yeah tiger's right hand man I mean our guy couldn't I mean he's is literally the best human being in the world of Disney. He's a perfect. He's a perfect man. Yeah, so for him and whether it's a driver, a three wood, whatever it is, when Rob comes to you with feedback and he's very clued up with equipment, he'll talk like Ty.

Tiger was talking through Rob. That's right. Prox. I like this. You know, I remember with the driver, I mean, that was what we sent, end of last year, we sent the stealth driver to Tiger was before that father-son event. The driver wasn't even on the list yet, right? We were still waiting to push it out and the feedback was this is go time

Were you this is going in were you going to show up with it at the PNC did you know that he was going to? Yes, absolutely yeah So you didn't turn out TV like oh no no no that was everybody else Launch launch yeah right right Hit the button, turn those machines on Minions are all running around What is this? Credit card process? We need double

Yeah, so I've told this story of the podcast I think before but I couldn't keep it I got so excited I got so excited I don't know I don't know what was happening He can't contain himself I did I was like I didn't see nothing

He came in that serious He didn't do pants you I don't know We'll never know So Kevin Kizner was coming up behind me then Doey do he's barely making it down the stage Yeah he gave a Snickers bar to yesterday Yeah we're not dogging him

Fucking love that guy Out of way, Dway, Dwayne. There you go, Dwayne. I'm coming, he says. I love you. I'm coming. He really gave that away. Oh, but.

I know. So easy. I saw kids just like gave me, you know, shh. He didn't give me the shit. Was he going to tabletop me? You guys, I remember doing that?

That was really, when people tabletop people are super mean. Speaking of the Taylorman athlete, Tommy Fleet was wearing an outrageous outfit today. He's got the green, the blue. He can pull it off, though. Adrian, what do you think of that outfit? I think he pulls a little for anything.

He does. He does. He's cool factor, isn't he? So now, Adrian, a guy like Tommy, he's got all the steel in the world, obviously, I mean, you wouldn't call it like a, whatever you want to call, where his game's out right now. Is he a type of guy that's, like, constantly coming to the truck and trying to figure out why things are happening and how he can change things up? Like, are you working more with a guy like him than you are a guy like Scotty, who's like

just got things rolling right now? Sure. I mean, he's playing well. He's trending well. And if you look at, he's probably more settled now than he's been in the last 12 months, which is great. I would say that he's more of like a deep thinker. He kind of analyzes a little bit more than most guys.

And very patient, very patient. So, you know, the fact that he's trending, like when I say trending, I mean, statistically, he's, you know, he's playing like a top 20 player in the world now. Right. Which is great, which means, you know what I mean, a good week on the greens or, you know, just a little bit of a little bit of fortune going his way and he's going to be in the mix and have a chance. He plays hard golf courses very well because his iron play so good. And when you talk about like, Shinnock, baby, you talk about a second shot golf course and, and, you know,

an iron player that is, you know, it was so great. Can't tell. We were talking about Tiger so much. And, you know, like he, he was actually, he actually hit Tiger's irons before Tiger. Oh. Yeah. Really? Yeah. It was just, uh, yeah, it was, uh, yeah, it was, uh, uh, it. A few years back, he was obviously deep, he was in Nike irons and he was deeply searching for a fresh jet. The irons were kind of so worn and he kind of gave us all a shot at finding him some irons. Oh. It's amazing.

And Tiger's iron wasn't fully cooked yet. Right. You know what I mean? Tiger was still designing it. Fully cooked as you get to it. You know what I mean? You've got a player like that and you've got one crack at him and you've got one you've got like a sweet store of equipment

but you can only take him one or two options so being smart we took him that one because he's DNA right oh mate it was amazing it was amazing nobody had a chance nobody had a chance is it nerve-wracking when you

when you make a club for someone and then they're on the range hitting it and they're just directly judging it basically yeah straight away And then if it's a bigger player, you've got people around and crowds around. Right. We try to do a lot of work like off-site. Yep.

With the big guys. But then you've got guys preparing for tournaments. So there's a lot that goes on on side. I always think of the scene in Star Wars where they're standing there with Darth Vader. And they're like, don't worry. They're chasing the Millennium Falcon. And they're like, don't worry, we disabled the hyperspeed. He's like, no problem.

The thing just takes off in hyperspeed. Darth Vader just looks at him. Like, what the fuck was that? Yeah. like that on the range of like they hit it doesn't come up a certain way and they're just kind of like uh they're like looking to you basically yeah yeah yeah you do get it's gotta be weird so you always like try to take a couple of options yeah yeah yeah you know most of the time you know you have you can predict what's gonna happen but your your plan B needs to be pretty ready because you're

not going to have much time if you let's say it the ball flight's perfect but there's like a feel thing or uh or uh um you know sound thing or that they're that the player's uncomfortable with, you've got to make sure that you have an answer for the next. And they know their numbers and their feels so well. I mean, he's not a tail-made athlete,

but Kevin Kisnerner were behind him. He almost pants rigs. But he was... You blew it. I did blow it. He was hitting like a bunch of drivers yesterday on the range, and they were giving him maybe

three or four different driver heads. And I'm like, imagine having such a dialed-in swing that every single swing is so consistent that your manufacturer and your team can figure out the difference between lofts and degrees and shafts. Like for us, we got fitted, we went to the Tailomey Kingdom, it's amazing. It definitely helped us in our game. But like, swing one to swing 15 can't be the same for me as it is for Kevin Kisner or Scottie Sheple. Well, you say that, but it actually, you do, you will have, we would call it like like a fingerprint.

So although you might not be as consistent in terms of delivering the club face in a really, in a really, tight tolerance way, your DNA, your swing fingerprint will be, and we've proven that. You have proven that. We've proven that. I didn't know the science behind it, but. That's a math system, yeah. So, so you, whoever you are, you will, you will repeat to, like, a certain degree, which is very high percentage. And, you know, you're going through lessons and you kind of start to try to shift and change what you're doing, you know, but, but if you just, I just got you there and I told you to hit, if I told you to hit, hit me 10, 10 shots, right? We took all the data and we put it on an avatar like a mat system, motion capture gear system,

and we put those 10 swings over each other, like we morphed them together. You'd be amazed at our consistent thing. Wow. That's really interesting. That's good to know. Every golfer regardless of skill has a fingerprint where it's like a general swing. 100%, which means you can fit it. Wow.

You can fit it. Wow. How many do you need to like get a confident fingerprint, basically? How many swings? Well, probably one. One. No, what I'm saying is like, I know the next one's going to be similar. But then, you know, if you've got 10, 15, 20, 7 irons, and then we started to analyze where you kind of break it down.

Right now, now we're looking at, let's just look at club face. And your club face could range from, let's say, two or three degrees left to two or three degrees right. That's a six degree gap is huge. But whereas Tommy's might be one to one and a half degrees in the right direction. So his consistency is really there. So our job with the consumer or fitting you would be to try and get back tolerance better through equipment, through forgiveness, through, you know, we can look at patterns at where you hit it on the face. Next year we got to do the morph thing. We never did the morph thing.

We got to do the more. We got to do the gear system, man. Oh, we want to do the gear system. Looking at Mike in the background. We don't write it down. We want to do that fake file. That's a fake thing. There's no way.

He's sending a Snapchat or someone. That is, there's no way that you wrote anything down there. I quickly want to give a shout out to Tommy Fleawood. Yeah, we're talking about him. He's going down this whole line given out autographs. I'm bad at estimating numbers. He's signed 150 autographs. He's the only guy I've seen through the entire line.

Wow, they've got all right, Frankie's gears. So shout out to Tommy Fleetwood. He's just, that's his, that's class act right there. They've got all right Frankie gear over there, Tom, and he might think it's for his. Come over here. He might think it's for his son. His son's name is Frankie. He's like, no, I'm finishing this line.

Come on, Scott. Holy. There go, Scottie. Way to go, kid. That boy, Teddy. Man, Scotty Shepard was walking. It's Wednesday before me. He's ready to go, man.

Guy is ready to go. Number one player in the world. Coming off a master's win. Jeez, that guy's good. Going to the range at 2 o'clock in Wednesday afternoon. Have you ever seen that? And I'm sure that answer is obviously, yes. I mean, Tiger Woods exists.

But have you ever seen a guy work as hard as that guy? Because when he, when we were at the Ryder Cup, he putted for three hours? Three hours after a practice round. Like Tuesday night. Because he figured out that one of his putters were a little bit off or whatever. And he refused to stop working until he figured out the putt. I mean, that guy is built different.

Even in an environment where everyone's built different, he's built even more different. American superstar, man. It's true. How thrilled are you guys with him? Oh, man. And we had put in so much work with him to, you know, to get his trust and acquire him to tailor-made. And, you know, we had things locked up with him. way before he won

in Phoenix and like the thing was like everybody would say like oh wow what timing was that you signed him and then he went on and won three or four times but in reality you know we had the work was done and we were just we were just crossing the T's and dot in the eyes and you know

here he can't see what a man Tommy Fleetwood more autographs anybody giving us a lot of good information you think anybody else in this group can pull off that outfit you got on right now. I can't even pull it off. Oh yeah, you can.

No, we just had a full discussion about you can. We, uh, looking at my ass. I am. We were, you're trying so many hard. That's all we could see. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, the only reason we could see us is because you, you did this whole autograph line. We were giving you a shout at it. Actually, do you know what? Funnily enough, uh, McCallie was just speaking and he said that trend is really shit at golf. What? Did, uh, what's happening?

It's not untrue. They, um, he said trends, crap at golf. that end believe me he's seen some really bad golf shots that's true John Tiller they don't believe me that you hit

he's got his hands before he did I had a set of Tiger Zions before he did yeah probably not enough really yeah he did yeah at Riviera one year he said how did you like he looked at him up and he was like how did you get those not aging game we were playing you know that Japan's one

that Tiger won. Yeah. Zozo. So Tiger comes off the course. He's just played with you that way. And he's just played unbelievable. He's come off and done a clinic for a whole crowd of people, the best clinic I've ever seen.

And one reporter asks him about his irons and how he, you know, how he, you know, talk us through it. And the first thing he says is Tommy Fleetwood actually had a set before me. I didn't even know you. I mean, if it's all I achieve in my golf career. That's good. It's amazing, man. Thanks, buddy.

Thanks. Have a good week. Good to see you, Tom. That's a luck this week, Tommy. Ass looks nice. Tommy Flewitt, most interesting man in golf. He's amazing.

What a human being, man. He's so great. He's just cool. He's got a level of cool, I feel like that not many people carry. Exactly. I'm going to stay up tonight. He uses it.

He uses cool. It's just without trying. Yeah. He's not trying. What I see? He's a lot everywhere, wouldn't he? How about his catty? What's his boy's name?

Yeah, he buried Trent. She goes, he's a sucker golf. And he goes, what I see. She's just like, okay. I mean, it's over. I know I'm not, I know. I know. I did a Bringing 100 series.

We don't bring you nine. We never claimed to be good. Never. But now you look at like, what a duo, right? You got Finno and Tommy and best mates and they grew up. I mean, how do you? How do you? Where those two end up getting matched up?

Yeah, exactly. Wow. Yeah. It's amazing. No, his boy, his candy is, um, comments on a lot of our stuff actually. Really? Yeah, yeah. So he loves you.

He's one of the trolls. No, no, well, golf nuts. It might come off the wrong way because, you know, they go. Both of them, really. They're from across the pond. Think of where they made. It's a different sense of humor. It's a dry sense of humor that we're, um, that's honest as they come straight up.

And that's probably how they, they both absolute golf nerds, nuts, everything. So that's why they're probably best friends. We were at the Zer classic and we would go up to Tommy right before we played in this, like, that shootout thing that we were doing. Yeah. where we were hitting on the range. And we go up to Tommy and we're like, we're nervous as shit. And he goes, go to someone else with your problems.

It came off so funny. But like to other people, I mean, like, some people might think like, oh, that was super rude. But we're dying laughing because you know his humor. He's such dry humor. God, he's the best guy ever. Yeah. Super show. So witty.

We've noticed that. One of our biggest takeaways being, you know, now more involved and around is how you would think that a lot of the players, caddies, et cetera. would be sick of talking about golf, for the most part, all they want to do is talk about golf. They think about golf all day. They're golfed drink. You know, Harry Higgs is another tournament athlete. You know, we had him on the podcast during the Media Week where we were out in Florida. And, you know, we had him on for like an hour and 45 minutes.

And Harry Higgs obviously has the image, the brand. He's got no buttons. He's taking his shirt off. But man, we got into like for an hour and 15 minutes of it. It was hardcore golf down to the science. And he loved it. Oh, like, I think a lot of people on site. A lot of their like personnel equipment guys inside here, players, you have to, it's a lifestyle, right?

Think of like, you know, call it a soccer player or football player. They go, they go, they train. The time spent doing it is, is a lot less than a golfer who turns up on a Monday, finishes on a Sunday, turns up on a Monday. Right. finishes on a Sunday, turns up on a Monday. It's nonstop. So as a passion, I mean, we love it. I mean, I go like my boss and my colleagues, my team in Europe.

If we go to dinner, we, you know, we're all day. We go to dinner in the evening. Maybe we've got a player or some agents. What are we talking about? Golf, golf. And it's like you never run out of things to talk about because every day is so different and everyone's trying something unique and new. It's just an addiction.

Golf's an addiction. Last night we had an event under the lights across the street at LaFortune. We had a Tulsa Tango. And Max Homer just showed up. And I'm thinking of myself like, It's a catty played. He's like, man, aren't these guys golfed out? This guy's got a major this weekend.

He's just like sitting there and just like shorts and a t-shirt. He's holding the wedge and just like watching golf. He's like, what else am I going to do? I'm sitting in my hotel. I don't know. I love this. I love this thing. So that's pretty good at it.

That's pretty good. We got a lesson out of him last night. Next level. How good day? You have a little lesson out of Max? So we were in, so we were deciding it was a scramble. And Trent and I had missed a green for like the first time. We were actually striping the ball.

but Trent put one in a bunker. Their whispers are on property. It was crazy. Probably the bet, going into a par three course, you would think that Trent now would be the worst combo of all time because wedges and everything. And we were two under through 11 holes. It was like, we were playing well.

I have the stealth irons in the bag. He's loving them. I love them. I've never hit the ball better. Anyway, he was in one bunker. I was on the other side of the green and some like, it was a short side of pin, so it was kind of a tough chip. I decided, I was like, we should go for the chip

because Trent's the worst bunker player in the planet. No offense to John Tillery or you. But, and then Max is like, what are you crazy? You have like a perfect lie in this bunker and you have all this room to run it out. So we choose a bunker. At LaFortune Golf Club, they're all like hard paned bunker. It's not this fluffy stuff out here. And I was like nervous about it going in.

He didn't help me on the shop, but he was going to give me a lesson after basically said. So I thought with such a hard pan, almost like hitting off concrete, I thought you almost attack it like a wedge shot off of like a tight lie where you just nip it underneath. Because I'm thinking to myself like, I can't go down because it's just hard. And after we both scalded at 150 feet off over the green, legitimately 150 feet over the green, he got into the bunker and he's just like, no, dude, you're completely wrong. Opposite. What a game of opposites.

Yeah. He goes, everything you have on your front foot. And as hard as you can, you're driving into the ground. Get the leading edge. You have to get the leading edge of because if you think about it like hitting off concrete, it's going to It's going to bounce and hit the center equator of the golf ball and you're going to go flying out that way. It's called enough. It's it.

Exactly. Sure is. So it couldn't have been more of a better. I just needed to hear that actually because my least favorite shot golf is when you get into a bunker, especially a lot of public courses we play where they're not perfect conditions, fine. But when it is hard pan? Yep. I have no option other than just bladed a hundred yards over.

So we don't have another shot. I'm like, when are you ever in this situation? He's like, dude, you'd be surprised. Because even at Southern Hills, it's a little bit firmer than we're used to. I guess that's why you go to move your feet drop. I didn't know if they did that to test the surface. Yeah. You know how deep it is.

Yes. You know how much bounce you need to use. Frankie goes, what are you, Aladdin whenever the people say? Yeah, the Pocahontas, one with the earth to the win. I just do it because everybody else does it. I'm a follower. I do it because I know you. This looks good.

Oh, yeah. Just so they have something to rake when they're out of it. You know what I mean? Come over, you just, you went through the body. It's just like, what are you? It's just good. It's good. Yeah, no, that's deep.

Do I look like I know what I'm doing? You're holding it at the hazel. You're in there, pal. But yeah, that that was a pretty cool little lesson. I never thought of it that way. It's also a look. are insanely good. It's a glaring look into how much they know about the game compared to us. We had the complete opposite approach. Well, Adrian, look, we appreciate it. We took a ton of your time.

Tommy said, I think you've been over there for three hours. Is he said you're a little bit of a diva? Is that why? No, no. He just needs my attention. You know what I mean? He's like, why is he given, why is somebody else getting out of taste? He's not going to be fitting them. That's what he's thinking. He's an attention seeker over there. That's right. He wants a dollar in his degrees right now. We appreciate it. Big week for the Taylor Made Athletes. We got the number one rank player in the world.

We have the needle, the biggest name in the history of golf, Territorymate athlete. We got Rory, who you were giggling about. You're so confident. Crazy. Crazy. The vibes. Tommy Fleawood.

We got a lot of hot action for our guys this week. So we appreciate the time. I imagine, you know, coming up the Open Championship, we'll probably have to go back to our major championship equipment consultant. Absolutely, man. And I appreciate you guys having me on. And it's fun. It really is.

fun the future future not his story not his story your shoes are awesome by the way too yeah they are I got a nice friend at Nike man I'll give him a shout out he he sends these are special for this week they say he calls me up Monday says you're going to get

something Thursday in the post will you please wear him next week those are amazing anything that's free you got like kind of a clean swagger about it it's not flashy yeah it's not flashy but it's if you really dig deep you're like okay this guy's putting some effort in Yeah, the G-4. Thanks for the time.

Cheers. Thank you, Adrian. Appreciate you. Cheers. Adrian is the man. Taylor-May Golf is the company. They're the best. And we're about to get now to From the Gallery, which there may be a bit going on, unintentional bit, where I say we have a bunch of from the galleries to get to.

And then we talk ourselves basically off cliffs and never get to it. We're actually going to get to a couple from the galleries and from the gallery is actually brought to you by our friends at truly hard Seltzer. Which, it's summertime. It's hot. We've made that very clear. in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It's going to be hot in Scottsdale, and Arizona. Truly Hard Seltzer is one of the great refreshing drinks to enjoy on a golf course, at a pool, on a boat, at a bar, wherever you may be. You can visit truly hardseltzer.com and find out where it is near you. Every can, okay,

every can has under 110 calories, one gram of sugar and naturally gluten-free, so no gluten, without gluten, sans gluten. And then they have over 30 flavors, so there's something for everyone. They got their new margarita flavors, which are awesome. They're fruit, punch flavors, which I think is what Frankie was trying to get to last time. Oh, there's a Kiwi one I was telling you about. I got a lot of messages about it. There's a new key. I don't know what their name is.

I don't know if it's like the party mix or something. There's a name for them, but everyone's been sent it to me. There's a new Kiwi flavor out there. It's wild. It's got a crazy little can with a kiwi-splash and into some vodka. Okay. It's cool. Okay.

So go get yourself from Truly Hardense out. So they got over 30 flavors. So I got a little bit for everybody. Wildberry is probably my favorite OG de Blueberry Asai. I believe that's my father, Steve. his favorite is the blueberry assaii we're going to be at mesa country club in the mesa

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for getting out from underneath it and try yourself from truly and find truly hard seltzer near you at truly hardseltzer dot com a couple of these from the galleries really quickly the first one have you got hold on have you guys seen the movie the replacements. Yep. A lot of the guy's been so long, though.

Keanu Reeves, John Favreau. Yeah. In that movie, a guy pukes on the ground and they move the huddle away from the puke. Could we do something similar out of the sun right now? I just, I don't want to stand because it's already hot enough outside

and I just didn't want to stand directly in the sun because we've got this beautiful shade under this tree. Is this better, I feel way better right now. So I appreciate you guys doing that. That was the only way I could bring it up. it's a great movie it's a good movie real quick no it's a great movie I like that movie

Blake from Vancouver what's up what was that Brent Jones what did you just say Blake Nakagawa love Blake 8 year old Blake who's probably 10 or 11 now what we gotta do a video

of Blake you know Blake the little Hawaiian kid oh yeah oh yeah is that him that did the thing no this guy from Vancouver Hawaii right I believe so yeah yeah Blake Nacagawa I believe so yeah yeah Blake Nacagawa

believe his name is kids can fucking stripe it yeah he's good and the sister's really good too crazy family doesn't mess around shout to blake love shout to blake sorry for cursing earmuffs blake for vancouver has tiger ever listened to the pod nope nope nope i think nope as well nope nope but definitely has been told about some things that were said on it you gotta hear these guys bunch of idiots i bet he's been shown a social clip from the pod 100% yeah clips yeah Yeah. Do Robbie Mac knows every time we blade a fucking wed. Like, whenever our, like, big videos go viral on social, on social media, he sees him.

Did we put the audio of you and him at the match into the podcast? Yes. He definitely heard that. You think so? Because he was there. Yeah, but, I mean, okay, you're right. That audio he consumed in real time with me standing right next to him. He's definitely been told about it.

No, yeah. But has he ever sat down and, like, on Spotify or iTunes, whatever and been, like for PlayPod no no never but zero podcast the clips that go crazy for sure like that that to me seems like something Robbie Mac like sort of feeds a little bit of information here and there to tiger it has to go across Robbie Mac's desk before it gets to Tiger Woods his face that's right agreed eyes ears there's no doubt Caleb not Caleb pressie I don't think uh in your lifetime while driving have you passed more cars or been passed by more cars on the road I've passed more cars I'm a I'm a I'm a passer you're a fast driver

you're a thrill seeker no no no not like that but I just I know I can just picture it and I'm very rarely like stagging it in the right lane and I do the right thing where I pass on the left and I move back over right I'm not an assail but like I'm definitely always kind of on the move I'm gonna say for me it's close okay and the reason I'm not an aggressive driver but I know you know I've done a lot of road trips you know and and you know you pass a lot on road trips not that many I feel like because you're kind of you're you're you're always pushing the envelope a little bit you're like if the speed limit's 65 you're right at like 72 not quite at like 77 because that's 12 over you might get a ticket 77 or

eight over you're not going to get a ticket so I feel like you're kind of in that but you're buzzing by people you know what has kind of changed this too is GPS where they'll put up the time of arrival on your screen it'll say you're going to get there at 718 p.m. It's like like But we can get there at 645. It's a contest. I pass more people. And you're not, yeah, I agree. And you're not like...

But then where are the people that have been passed? No, I pass way more people. There's a lot of instances I can think back to number one being Long Island Expressway going into the Queens Midtown Tunnel. There's a bunch of sheep that wait on the left three lanes and the right lanes for buses only. And every single morning that thing fucking piles up. And this will come back to haunt me at some point. I'm sure I can get a ticket just for talking about this. but you know you just so happen to like oh i missed the sign and you just ride the right lane you

pass 10 000 cars every more i mean every more i mean it makes your commute from an hour and a half to 45 minutes it's crazy i also and you're like you always get into the left lane when you see you get like over one lane when you see someone maybe texting and they didn't realize everyone moved ahead of him you sneak right in there it's a fucking grind but you've never been the one texting that like a bunch of cars just flew by you on the left i'm talking i'm talking Like, I've done that way too much, and I'm just, I'm a go, I go. I couldn't have been, like, I've never been in the instance where someone was beating me to that right lane move. I don't know that I, I've always been the guy to try and get in that move.

I'm definitely past 20 times more people than I've been past. 20 X, wow. Dude, it's, I'm just wondering where all the people are then that are being passed all right. I think maybe it could be, it might come down to population and age. Do you age into the right lane? Like, when you get older, you become. Unless, age into you don't give a fuck about anyone else on the road. And that, that makes me think then you go on the right lane.

You're just like, I'm going to just cruise in the right lane. Turn to a cute tip and you just. We've got a like, we've got, we got, we got young blood a little bit. And we're still kind of like, let's go. Let's pass. Let's let's let's. So you think. You tried to pass one car in a one lane road, two lane road opposite directions.

And it's like you're not supposed to pass cars there. And he tried to. And we almost got fucking decked by a truck. He's an irresponsibly dangerous driver. Yeah. He makes horrible decisions. Really bad. He is, man.

He doesn't focus the way you're supposed to focus. He thinks it's like a game. Like you're playing a video game. What is the top five cause of death in America? It's got to be up there. This is like automobile accidents. I think I'm more past cars. But maybe that's what people...

But you're saying then what you're saying, and I think that I'm in that boat as well. What you're saying is by the time, as you get closer to 85 years old, you're saying you think it starts to even out? Yeah. You start to get past more and more and it gets closer to zero.

Like right now, I still think, like I got somewhere to be. I got to get there. I got to go there now. I think he's you age and you get a little bit more perspective. It's like, we get there when we get there.

Yeah. So that's JJ Sponer over there, huh? So JJ Spawner, I had a good incident with JJ Spawn. Today I walked over and I saw him on the putting green with, stand over here. I saw him on the putting green with Joel Damon.

First of all, what tournament did he win? He was the one right before the Masters. He was the one like a week or two before the Masters. Maybe the week before the mat. Oh, it was in Texas, right? Valero. Lero, Texas is open.

That's what it was. Can we confirm that in case he comes over here? So we sound like we know what we're talking about. Yeah, yeah. All right, JJ. Go get him, baby. Let's go, JJ. Come on, man.

The miscommunication. So he just, he just flicked off Frankie Brilliant. He fucking flicked me over. He doesn't like you. He's not kid. Bro, it was a miscommunication. All right. So here's what happened.

Let me explain. I got to explain my side. So I walk over. Valero Tech's Open. He won that? Yeah. Jay J.J. Spong. , great player.

Awesome, emotional victory. emotional victory. So the week before the Masters, he wins the ValoreTex Open to get into the field of the Masters. We're doing a podcast, and that's going to come up in a second. What came up before that was this afternoon, I'm walking onto the course. I see Joel Damon. I go over. He's playing a practice now with JJ Spawn.

I'm chit-chat and catching up, whatever. J.J. Spong comes over from the Green, and he goes, oh, yeah, like, which one? Somebody from your show, say, I'd be lucky if I could hold the door open for Tiger Woods at the Masters. And I immediately was just through Frankie right on the bus. I was like, yeah, yeah, that had to be Frankie. And I started to kind of think of my head in real time like what the fuck did we say because I don't know what we say in the show And I started to be like you know what we were talking about tiger returning and how that just dominates every storyline

It doesn't matter and then somehow Frankie I believe said something along the lines of like oh yeah who like JJ spawn just wanted tournament He came and hold the fucking door open for tiger once this week But the context behind it is that he does not like that and they called me and then he goes what's up pizza boy It's what he said Jake love that and then he fucking flip me off just now so we got to let's let it loud too is the the pizza boy thing I think Frank, Briggs was talking to him, and Frankie and I were a little bit behind,

and we're walking, I think it was at the 18th hole here at Southern Hills. Yeah. And he just, Frank and I are walking up. We're probably 50 feet away. He goes, Hey,

pizza boy. That's good. You know, I need that. It's a humbling experience. I need to be knocked down a few peg. We got to be knocked out of some point. We got to get knocked out of some point.

We got to get knocked out of you. I'm the first person to admit I am a fucking loser out here. So if Jay J. Small wants to like, you know, shit on me a little bit, then he has every right to. I want him to know.

I got a little something in my mouth. I want him to know that when we were talking about, there's audio confirming this. I was saying that because Tiger Woods is playing in the Masters, it's such a big story that like the dude that just won the Valero after, I mean, he had an insane amount of starts before he even won a tournament. It was like, this first win.

It was like a hundred and ninety five starts or something like that, won the fucking Valero. I'm like, and then he got into the Masters by only winning the Valero. I'm like, that's the best storyline of a regular tournament going into that week every other week, except for the Masters when Tiger Woods is playing. I got something about that. And Tiger Woods winning makes this guy like the doorman.

You know what I mean? Like the guy who usually is the biggest story, shout out to JJ for winning a tournament, because I watched him win that tournament. I watched that tournament being like, oh, fuck, that's awesome. Even that guy couldn't hold the door open for the guy that's about to play and barely make the cut. You know what I mean? Like, that's how big Tiger Woods is. Here's what happens.

Fuck you, JJ. Here's what happens. You know what happens? And this has happened to you before with Abraham, Abraham Answer at the President's Cup. When you start getting riled up about Tiger, we just start saying stuff. Sure.

And you said you wanted Tiger to end Abraham Answers career. You start sling. But you still want Tiger was to have Abraham beat Abraham Answer so bad that he never wants to play the game of golf. That's how much I love Tiger Woods. And I think in that moment, are we not allowed to have fans? Are we not allowed to root for our fucking guys?

Oh, but you got to be ready for Jay. James Bond's going to hear that. He's going to give you the finger and call you pizza boy. I still gave him. It was like a, it was not a backhanded compliment. I guess it was. It's a backhanded compliment where you're like, hey, I think it was a compliment. I see what you're saying. I was saying. I was like, that was complimentary of how well he played the week before, how awesome of a story it should be. Should be the biggest story, but you got fucking big Dick Eldrick walking through that door.

That's not that bad of, that's not that bad of a comment. He probably heard it in a different way, JJ Spahn. I would imagine. It's all right. That's a funny little rivalry. You always get caught in these things. That's fine. That's fine. We'll have him on the show one day and have him call you Pizza Boy and it'll be fun. I thought we're going to have him over there for a second. I thought it was going to be fun and he flicked Frankie off and he walked away. That's insane.

No, it's nuts. I mean, I deserve it. There's no doubt about it. I respect it. I respect it. What's up, buddy? What's up? How are you?

How are you doing? How are you doing? How are you doing? I'm doing a podcast. How are you doing this live podcast? How are you doing this show? I'm sweating my tits off. Yeah, you are out of here.

You know what time it's hot out of it. Do you know what time it's supposed to get hot? Not yet. Is this live for a real? No, no, it's recorded. Live to tape, I think they say. Fuck you. What?

I'm an Islanders fan, dude. Islanders. He'll give you one. Well, the Rangers are playing really good. No, not. I'm a blues fan. It makes me sad. How you doing?

How are you doing, dude? You're sweating mad. They got me doing a sound check right now. I'm just listening. How is this all going, by the way? I did it last week for the Byron. I loved it, dude. You love this.

Yeah, it's fun. it's fun just to, you know, it's fun to get in there. Yeah. The action. I love K.H. Lee. He's like a, he's a sweetheart. So, great quote from him. I want to be the best player in the world, but then I want to be the sexiest person in the world.

They're talking about. Okay. All right. Go do your thing. All right. Go do your thing. Bye. Not ever. He's going to be on the live coverage. Hey, Joe. Yeah, the SPN thing on him. Joe, someone in.

Who's calling you? Joe, what's up? You pocket dialing me right now? Joe Griner. Oh. Caddy of Max Homer. Who played in the Tulsa, also tango last night. This show's kind of all over place, which I love.

I think he was just a pocketedatmy. Oh, you should listen to that. Well, the thing I thought he was going to be like, I just ran into JJ Spot. What the hell is going on? What's the, I see. I got out some JJ Spawn. He's on the range. I can barely see him because it's so short. You're, I'm kidding. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, call me a pizza boy.

It's like, I'm a fucking. Well, it's funny because, okay, five minutes ago, you were like, it's a means communication. And now you're like, you're that guys are short little bitch. Excuse me. It's miscommunication. I didn't call him. I can barely see him over that fucking brain or rice right right right in front of him behind him because he's in front I see the grain of rice about to be behind him you guys are going to have a reconcile we will have one because I you know what it's one of the only tournaments that like wasn't a really big

tournament it was a Valero fucking Texas Open okay that I sat there and watched and like really got invested in his story and thought it was cool and it was before Tiger had committed to the masters and I remember right in a notes at being like to talk on pod tomorrow j j spawn cool story 100 something starts so this whole thing's been turned on my head and now i have to have a robbery with this guy it's the only guy i watched all year for the record i love j j j spott i'm a huge fan of his uh and then he was the first got to tee off at the masters this year i know a lot about the guy yeah he was in the first group seems like you guys are tight no one even knew because time was playing um um j j spawn teased off in the masters and tigers

there did he actually tee off that's from the gallery by truly hard seltzer go truly hard seltzer dot com check out where you can get some i got a laugh from the crowd there you're you're fishing for some support right now i want it on record saying i don't want to fight j jay j's pawn because he'll beat the shit out of my dainty little body you you said you said you couldn't see him behind a grain of rice he'd still beat the shit out of it yeah that's true okay that was from the gallery great time there's no way i'm gonna put that in the show we're about to throw it down chipnuck who's who's just incredible A phenomenal, phenomenal interview.

One of the better writers in the world of golf has been for decades. Great guy. And he wrote an awesome book that's absolutely taken over the golf world in a lot of ways over the last few months at different times. It's popped up. Now it's out. It's available. Phil, the rip-roaring. Unauthorized biography of golf's most colorful superstar.

Bang. Anybody in Scottsdale in the Arizona area, come to Casamigos. We're going to be there Friday, Saturday, Sunday, pretty much from 11 a.m. All the way until coverage ends. Live feed. Live stream. PGA Championship Watch Party. Let's go Tiger Woods.

Let's go Rory. Let's go Taylor Made. Let's go Kiz. Let's go everybody. Hit it hard. Hit it hard. Hit it hard. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we are joined, I believe, for the first time on the show.

You never write. You never call. Yeah. We're going to get to all that. We have a man who's hot in the streets right now. It has been for several months for years, really, but especially last few months. Alan Shipnuck, Fire Pit Collective with our boy, Matt Janella. So I have to mention that.

Thank you. Go check out. everything you guys do there. And then you're a little bit, you know, you're a little bit all over the place. You write for a lot of different outlets. You cover a lot of different things. But the latest is obviously the book on Phil, which we've read. Um, how's it, you know, how's it feel to, how's it feel A to have it kind of out now and be done with it? Yeah, it's a relief because, you know, we, we put that excerpt out in February. It's, you would never usually drop an excerpt that far from publication date. Right. It was just all that study stuff was coming to a boil. And I felt like

I had almost like a fiduciary duty to get it out into the world. because people needed to have all the cards on the table and make, you know, decisions about what's really happening here. And so it's created this long run up. What was that decision like to release that? I mean, I literally, I was one who had to press published and, you know, my finger hovered for a second because I knew things were going to get a little squirrel. I honestly, never imagined it would blow up the way it has. And some very smart people in the golf world had read the manuscript and they, you know, we knew it would be controversial. But Phil has talked his way out of so many controversies in the past.

Yeah. He's a master manipulator of the media and never, in a million years thought he'd be in this exile for this long. But to answer your question, you get the book out now and people can read it in its totality and see that it really is like a fair, balanced look at a really complicated guy. It's a relief because the world we live in, you know, the excerpts, they have to be a little sexy to get people's attention. I said to my editor, what if we do like an excerpt about Phil's philanthropy and all his random acts of kindness? He's like, nobody cares. Nobody's going to read that. People like the negative stuff, essentially.

Or even just the stuff that has some sizzles. So I'm happy the books out and people can judge it in full. Give me the full title and fill the rip roaring. Yeah. And unauthorized. And unauthorized. Biography of golf's most colorful superstar. Apologies on how long it is.

No, I like it. I will say my and Trent and I talked about this on Sunday when we got to Tulsa. My takeaway, my biggest takeaway from the book was shockingly different than I expected it to be to the point where I actually think I can. I came away liking Phil more than I did going in. And Phil is such an interesting case in that Phil is someone who everyone has heard a ton of rumors about. Everyone uses the word phony. And I've heard he's this.

I've heard he's that. Every person that, you know, is representative of the normal golf fan back home, one of my buddies, whatever, that now finds me in this weird situation where I kind of, you know, they think I know more than I do, ask me like, what do you hear about Phil?

Because, you know, everybody has that. The book, I thought, did such a good job of sort of addressing that of like, here's a story about some really, really genuinely good things Phil has done for people that you probably haven't heard about. And then here's a story about Phil that might be a little bit more, you know, sketchy on his character. And so my biggest kind of take was there were dozens and dozens of stories of him and Amy doing phenomenal things for people that if you've never heard about him, clearly they weren't doing

them for press. They just were doing them as good people. Right. Like I think like you you they throw around the word phony and that's in the book and people do say that about Phil, but you use word complicated. And I think that's a good way to put it because like Rick said, there's all those stories in there that are just like, that's not a great reflection of Phil. But then the one that stuck out to me was the Ryan Palmer story where as soon as his wife, you know, gets diagnosed with breast cancer, he pulls Ryan Palmer aside and is like, here's the people you're going to talk to. Here's what we're going to do. You're going to get the best, you know, medical people in this field.

And it all worked out. So I think phony it could be or it could be. And I think if you read the whole book and I think it's a very fair and balanced look at Phil, I think he is incredibly complicated. That's the best way to put it. Well, I mean, I appreciate both you guys saying that because that was ultimately my goal. I'm not here to tell people what to think about Phil. It's just like I'm just laying it all out there in all the contradictions, which we all have as humans, but his are exaggerated because it's been such a big life. Right. He's such a big personality. He just choose all the scenery. And so yeah, there's it's a little bit of a journey on this book. And I've had people say like, when I was done, I was confused. Like, I don't know how I feel about Phil. And to me, that's a compliment as a biographer because I don't want to tell you what to think. Like, this is all that I know and all that I could get in print. And now, now you

make up your mind. And so, yeah, but I appreciate that from you guys. And yeah, there's just there's, there are so many multitudes within Phil. And people ask me that all the time. That's one of the reasons I did this book. It's like, what does Phil like? And so everything you've heard is true. He can be incredibly charming and generous. He can be an asshole.

He can be manipulative. He can he's got all of these parts of his personality. and that's what makes them so interesting. Which is true of like almost everyone, right? I mean, to some degree, it's, you know, I really liked because you were, when you first kind of started to discuss in the book, the gambling stuff. And you had a line in there that was sort of like, to be honest, nobody would really care about any of this because it's not illegal to be just, I mean, if you bet, lose your own money, who cares? Remind me a little bit of the Michael Jordan stuff. And people were trying to, you know, find, find ways to kind of drag down this absolute superstar Michael Jordan.

and people are like really hammering the gambling thing during playoffs. And he went down to Atlanta and people were like, oh, you can go gamble. That's totally fine. You can spend your money however you want. I wrote down this quote from Hunter Mayhan who said he's not phony. He's just kind of goofy. I've never seen any kind of fake side to him.

And I've never seen him be rude to any person. So when it comes to the word phony with Phil, how do you think it applies? Yeah. I mean, one of these critiques you hear from his colleagues is, oh, he's just out there signing autographs as like public relations. It's like if the worst thing you can say about, somebody is he's too giving to the fans and oh you know he leaves all that money for the locker

room attendants he's like showing off well these are the guys cleaning the shoes like they could appreciate that thousand dollars right if that's the worst he can say about somebody they're doing pretty well so i think Phil's aware that it helps his legend to to give the girl at the lemonade stand a hundred bucks but it's also he doesn't have to do that like you know there's just this little throwaway thing in the book but there was just waiter at augusta national who's up for promotion and phil wrote him a letter of recommendation like he does not have to do that like he does he does care he does they said this about arnold palmer like no one can have as much fun being arnold palmer as arnold palmer did and it's kind of the same with phil he loves being phil mickleson

and the grand gesture and all that stuff he thrives on that um but then you know there's there's there's things in the book where he gets in people's face and he's you know like they even tried to co-op me you know is attorney calling and and offering to make me a consultant as phil's going to take on the tour it's like that is the most glaring conflict of interest i cannot take phil's money while in the middle of writing a book about it. I'm like, duh, but they're always working an edge. Yeah, yeah. Always working an angle. Phil never opens his mouth out an agenda. So it's just part of his inherent contradictions that he can be so magnanimous and he can be so petty. So the first time I really got to speak to you quite a bit about the book was in October. We were

abandoned and you were giving me tidbits talking to me, you know, the process and how, you know, You would obviously, you let Phil know that that's coming and here's kind of what I got. And then, you know, a month or so after that was when you had the conversation and you got the comments and the quotes that obviously the entire world is read now, you know, were you surprised of Phil called you up? I was. I went to Phil three times face to face and asked him to sit for interviews for the book over like about a five month period.

He thought about it. He mold on it. And ultimately he said no, which was fine. I've had so much access to Phil through the years and his people. I didn't really need him. I explained to him. I thought it was in his best interest to tell his side of every story and do a little spin, but whatever. And so fast forward 10 months, the book is due December 1st.

It's now Thanksgiving weekend. Like, I'm done with the book. I'm putting the last coat of polish on it. And after I had that weird exchange with his lawyer, you know, Phil text me says, hey, can we talk? I was like, of course. I've been trying to talk to you for a year. And so given that you turned me down, I was surprised. But when you know Phil, and it's been said many times, he has to be the smart.

guy in the room. And he just couldn't help himself. He had to tell me that he had game the system. And he was smarter than Jay Monaghan, the PJ tour commissioner. He was smarter than Greg Norman, the mouthpiece for the Saudis. And he'd cut all these backroom deals. And he was so proud of himself. And so ultimately, he didn't want to talk to me. He said nobody could not help himself. And it tells you a little bit about Phil. Like, he's always stirring the pot and he always has an agenda. And I mean, like take the 2014 Ryder Cup, which I think is a fascinating. part of Phil's legacy is was you fueled by grievance because Tom Watson benched him of course. Yeah.

Did he enjoy like flaying Tom Watson in front of the world on a personal level? No question. But it was also a very principled stand where he's like we've been getting our teeth kicked in for 20 years. I'm tired of losing. We need chains. And the only way it's going to happen is if I make this a very public issue. And so he put his neck on the chopping block. And now the U.S. has won two of the last the rider cups. They're probably going to win the next five. And a lot of that dates back to that before. Yeah, I know. Let's move on.

Let's move on. New question. Yeah. So, you know, that was Phil as an agent of change. And he's always saw himself that way. You know, smack in the moving putt at Shinnecock. Was that petulance and childish because he was playing crappy? Yes.

But it was also the USGA had lost control of the golf course yet again. All the players were pissed. Yeah. Exactly. And Phil wanted to make that public. And a lot of players were cheering for him. So he's not afraid to put himself out there, which I respect. and he's talked his way out of it before, but this time, you know, he kind of lit himself on fire.

So we're at the PGA championship. He is the defending champion and he's not here. That's an incredibly rare, rare precedent. Almost never happens, especially for someone who is healthy and could play. Are you surprised he's not here? Yes and no. I mean, I have people who are DMing me photos and videos of playing golf all around San Diego. I haven't posted him.

It feels a little too invasive. but the swing looks good. It looks like he's put on a little ways. He's got a little beard, but I mean, he's playing golf a lot. So I can't speak to how well he's playing, but he's out there grinding to some extent. But I think the ground has shifted beneath Phil's feet so quickly. He's gone from this beloved elder statesman

and he's taking like this heel turn and now he's like kind of a bad guy. Yeah. And he's caught between these two worlds. Is he going to pledge his field to the PJ tour? He's going to go all in with the Saudis. And that whole situation is so chaotic, you know, without getting in the weeds there.

Like, we don't know what's going to happen. And it's probably headed for court. And I think Phil was just not ready to return to public life where there'd be a lot of tough questions. And he would sort of have to pledge allegiance to one side or the other. And so I think this was just about buying time. See who's going to be the first guy to break the blockade, go over to London and play in that Saudi event.

It might be him. It might not. And he's just not ready yet for the tough questions. Right. That's the conclusion that we kind of came to where we were asking, Why hasn't he shown up? Why didn't he play at the Masters? Why isn't he playing in the PGA?

And what it probably comes down to is he doesn't have the answers that people want to hear or he doesn't have the answers himself. Because it's easy to say, just show up, take your beating a little bit, get to ask the hard questions and give the answers. But if you don't have the answers that you think you should be giving or that you even have in your own brain, then you just don't show up, I guess. And yeah, it builds the swell even more.

But it might be better. Apparently he's calculated in his mind that that's better than showing up and giving answers that are. just going to people are going to tear him even more right and i mean he's even sort of taking the fifth like to not even put out a statement about not defending the project that was bizarre yes like it just let the let it's up to the pj of america to put out some some milk toast tweet like that was weird but i think he's afraid anything he says is going to be the wrong thing and so he's just gone underground which is so uh such a reversal for phil nicholson right i mean he he he can talk his

way out of things as you've described in phenomenal detail for hundreds of pages that's what he does And if there's ever a situation that like, okay, someone is clearly up against it. They've done a heel turn. They're getting it bad from the media. People have piled on. If there's one person that really could artfully talk their way out of it and inevitably will, right, which you put in the book that like there will be a moment. He's thumbs up and everyone and that we're going to clearly get back to that point.

The public forgets very quickly. Things blow over. I'm just shocked that he hasn't just shown up yet and taken his licks because he's going to have to do it eventually anyways. Yeah. He's just not ready. And it's complicated because the people are right. Phil are a little problematic and his agent and his lawyer who kind of is two

you know consularities they're not talking to each other and you've heard a lot of stuff we don't know what's going with Phil and Amy there's just like I think there's a lot going on behind the scenes and that adds to this this dissonance where Phil's just not ready to take a stand because he doesn't even know what he believes in and he's at a real crossroads professionally and personally because I think if he comes back and he says you know what I thought I was I was I was just being a tough businessman. Maybe I overplayed my hand.

I'm sorry. I love the PJ tour. I'm just here to sign autographs and have fun. People will forgive and forget. Instantly. Instantly. Especially with Tiger Woods here playing and taking over all the coverage. Like it would just be that thing that he does.

Yeah. We know we see him. And it's, yeah, to me as just a, I'm a fan of Phil. I'm a lefty. I've always loved Phil Mickelson. I just want to be able to see him go out there and answer those questions. And I get if he doesn't have him, it's just makes me think that the worst, the worst of the worst of the worst.

is actually happening when I don't hear anything from him. Well, I mean, you can't call it an apology, but his public statement in February when he kind of took this leave of absence, that last paragraph where he said, I failed a lot of people, I need to work on being a better man. That felt like it was a lot bigger than the Saudis. That kind of read like a cry for help.

And so, yeah, you know, I become this clearinghouse. Everyone's calling me and tweeting me and DMing me, like everything they've heard. I've heard every possible rumor innuendo, what could or cannot be happening in Phil, life. I don't know what to believe anymore. There's so much. But he's clearly dealing with some stuff that is beyond golf. But again, there's a road back. I mean, however, if he goes all in with the Saudis after everything he said about them and us knowing his true feelings and after

being educated on the toxicity of their dirty money and how it's still an emotional issue for a lot of Americans because they did supply 15 of the 9-11 hijackers and they did assassinate a Washington Post reporter who is a resident of the United States, if he still goes all in with the Saudis, it's going to be a lot harder for Phil to get that love back because I think a lot of fans will be turned off. And so he's at a monumental decision between guaranteed money versus goodwill versus trying to get back in good grace of the corporate America versus this need to to be an agent of change and be vindicated and prove that he was right. And there's a lot there. And so I think that's why Phil's not here. He just needs more time to let it marinate.

he's trying to crunch those numbers. Right. And another thing is that what you talk a lot about in the book is, what is Phil's financial situation? Like, where are we at with that? Like, how badly does he need the Saudi money? How badly? Like, what is his current financial situation?

For a guy who was making $40 million a year at one point, like, what is he actually, like what does he need right now? And I think that's a huge question for him. That is. Like, you mentioned Michael Jordan's gambling. It theoretically didn't affect his career, right? He even said that. He was just kind of like, yeah, but it's not.

I'm a competition junkie. Right. Where it gets interesting with Phil is, you know, it's in the book, the scale of his gambling losses, like deep into into eight figures just during this four-year period that was scrutinized by the government as part of the Billy Walters insider trading. So now you have to ask, like, why is he chasing the Saudi money so hard? He's threatening to blow up the entire world order professional golf and reshape the entire landscape.

And why? And part of it is he wants to be right. And he wants to be this revolutionary. Like, that sees himself as like Thomas Payne and pleaded pants. But it's also, you know, it feels like maybe there's a more necessity when it comes to that Saudi money. Right. And so that's where it gets really interesting because, you know, I've heard from people in the game, oh, he already took a huge advance from the Saudis.

You don't want to owe those guys money. No. Like, they're the last people you want to owe money to. And so now it's you don't owe that money. It's your indicy territory. Now you owe them a lot. I mean, look at the positions that Greg Norman has put himself in. We don't know anything, but it's like it sure seems like he's got a lot more invested than just like, I want this.

What about your position? Have you felt nervous about being in the. mix of all this? Yeah, I mean, I've heard that. Clearly, if the Saudi Rams are going to execute 80 people in the town square, they don't really care about public relations, like they're just going to do their thing. Yeah, but, um, true. So, no, but it's not like I'm sleeping with one eye open, but it's definitely there's, yeah, I did get an email today from a guy who's got a Saudi Arabian government email. He's like, please call me so we can clarify a few

points. I'll call you right back. Yeah, no problem. No problem. I mean, nervous having you on the show. Yeah. I'll call you from PayPal. Let me just hide behind. This interview may never hit the airways. It's all jokes that out. Who's Alan Shipnard? That is something to kind of, I mean, did you factor any of this stuff and when deciding to write this book?

Like, not only that, but also affect someone else's life, whether it be negatively positively or whatever. When doing something like this, does that really affect you? Yeah, I mean, there's a human element. And I will say that I was told something that would have been very headline-making for the book. But the people that it directly affected, I spoke with them. And they begged me not to use it because it's a term.

their life upside down. Well, wasn't. Yeah. So let me whisper in your ear. And, you know, it's really harmed them. And they confirmed it. I mean, I pretty much had it cold, but I'm not a monster. I don't want to, like, send these people back to therapy or whatever it might be.

Like, it's really been a big thing in their life. And so it's not in the book. And, you know, even... Those are tough decisions. They're tough decisions. And there's even stuff that I know to be true that was about Phil's family that felt too personal. I took it out.

Like, I mean, I sent Phil a long request for comment when I was done with the book that had all the juiciest stuff. He never got back to me. He went, his lawyer called me. And one of the things I said, like, are you sure you want to say this? And the lawyer came back and said, yeah, Phil would appreciate it if you take that out. And I said, okay, I will because, you know, there are certain lines I don't want to cross. And, you know, everyone is entitled to a life with some privacy. Now, when you get to the issue of the betting, it's, it really becomes a real.

thing that's affecting professional golf. I would say at that point, you've kind of forfeited the right to privacy when you might blow up the PGA tour. Yeah. And so. On that issue, right? On that issue. You might exercise the right to privacy on other issues.

And like, you know, one of the big questions was why did Phil and Bones end their relationship after 25 years? They seem like brothers, right? And they put out these chummy, like, you know, his and her press conferences, uh, press releases. But you may have observed this too. If you're at tournaments, you could sense a little. edge there. I saw them walk past each other, I even looking at each other. And there's plenty of player and caddy breakups where they still wrap it out on the putting green. Right. And there's

still a kinship there. Like they've been in the arena together. But that was totally absent. And so like to get to the bottom of that was a great mystery. And again, you could say, well, it's just their business. But when they're out on the golf course between the ropes, like when when Bones was moonlighting for for Justin Thomas and they were paired with Phil, you know, a couple years ago, and there's an energy and an edge. And it felt like it's effective. the competition, I think that, again, this now becomes part of the public domain. Like, there's something going on here that is of value into understanding why it might be affecting performance, why it's affecting the way they conduct themselves at tournaments.

So there were a million judgment calls in this book. And I will say I'm the keeper of so many secrets because everyone wanted to tell me everything. And a lot of us off the record. Some we had these ornate agreements about how it would be sourced. I flew off to see this guy who's done a lot of gambling with Phil. Like, not only would you not let me record it, I couldn't even bring my phone into the room or a pen or a piece of paper like he wanted no evidence we'd ever talked yeah and and he told me something else that was an absolute bombshell and but it was off the record and i couldn't

use it and it's like it hurts it's like oh like it's it crushes me as a reporter at information gallery but we had an agreement and i always honor those agreements and it's good to hear from our side because you want to know that the world actually continuously goes like that like i i don't want it to always be where everyone's trying to get other people just to get them. You know what I mean? And the fact that you did your due diligence with this, you have all these things. Because, you know, people's lives get ruined.

People make mistakes. And you talk about that. And it's awesome to hear that, you know, how you went about this. It's really cool. You have to have it. I mean, I appreciate that. And again, my goal, people have said, because reading the excerpts, you kind of got,

as you said, you got a little flavor of the book, but you didn't get the whole meal. And so before people have had a chance, they're like, oh, is just a take down a Phil. Were you out to get him? I said, no, I like Phil. I've always enjoyed being around him. it's been a great joy to cover him

because think about when he came out in the 90s like who were the big stars it was like fucking Marco Mirra Lee Jansen yeah all these boring motherfuckers now like Phil made our lives so much richer as golf fans and people who cover the game

that was the Charles Barclay part I thought was excellent towards him when he said he's like yeah he's just like you know I've known Tiger I've known Phil really well Phil's just really fun to be around and people are just smiling at around Phil and people aren't around Tiger now that changed yesterday with us but like I thought that was a really

good point of just like yeah I don't know about all the bullshit but guess what man I love being around that guy yeah no that's it that that runs through it and and so it was important for me to capture all that but there's also the messiness and the controversy and that's in there too so um ultimately I'm just trying to tell the whole tale and it's like spreading out a big buffet and you'll take this and he'll take that and you'll have a little different you'll have a little different taste of it and I'm not telling you what to eat or what to think like it's just this metaphor has gone on too long anyway but the point is it's just there's something for everybody a little lemonade Yeah, something for everybody.

And I think there'll be a wide range of react. I think people who love Phil will probably love them more because they'll focus on all the philanthropy and all the mentorship. And the people are filled attractors. They'll pick out stuff. And I'm interested in the people in the middle who are kind of ambivalent because that's going to be, that's going to be interesting to see how they react. The stuff that Riggs and I've been talking about the most since we, since we first talked about it was the bone stuff. I think the bone stuff is just really interesting. And a lot of things that just people didn't know about.

And I think like you're saying, there's going to be people on either side. I think the people in the middle, which I think we sort of are, is like, that's going to be one of the main takeaways. Because that stuff was, it was eye opening quite honestly. That was, I, I said to try. I thought that was the most actually salacious of the entire, you know, thing. That was the most surprisingly salacious. And, you know, we know, we're chatting with bones today for a while. So when it's somebody that you know that also, you know people like a lot.

And then you hear it kind of went down the way that it went down. You know, that was probably the most negative I thought for like the, a lot of the feel stuff for me. which was also the most surprising. And it's interesting for you to hear from your vantage point that going in, that was all sort of a mystery. Like, all right, I sense something. There's a little bit of iciness here. I got to get to the bottom of this.

You were basically starting from nothing. Yeah. I mean, I heard some things, but, you know, there's always noise surrounding Phil. That goes back to the 1990 U.S.

amateur. You know, it's all laid out in the book. Like, some of those old stuff is hilarious. Like, 91 Walker Cup is comment about the Irish women in the gallery. Like, that stuff's hilarious.

To excavate all that was a joy. But yeah, I mean, people haven't had chance to read the book or the excerpts, whatever. I mean, money was at the root of that breakup with Phil and Bones. And the FedEx Cup came along. It already had a pretty established payment system. So how do you reconcile this bonus money? They kind of agreed on something. And over time, Phil never paid it off.

And it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And eventually Bones, by his accounting, was owed $900,000. That's a lot of money. A lot of money. For anybody, especially a caddy. Yeah. And Phil never made him whole until the whole thing was coming apart. And, you know, it's crazy.

And but what's, you know, what's interesting is a guy that made 40 million a year at one point. Yeah. But how much is. Like, I mean, right. But how much brought us waters and like Snickers today? Yeah, he did. He did. But it's not what you make.

It's what you keep. So now it gets into a more interesting question. But then, you know, then there's the 18th whole flags, which in bones is moral universe is a graver sin than the money because so we all know that. You could sense it. And just in the book, it's like that was the thing. The money is one thing. Yeah.

The 18 pin flags is a big deal. Yeah. So we all know when the caddy takes the 18th whole flag, that's just, that's their trophy. They don't get a big wannamaker trophy. Dekhi Matsiyama's cat. He made it super famous. Iconed. Unreal.

And so Phil always kept those flags and he gave him to his grandfather who taught him the game and was a, it was like the North Star in his life. And so Bones didn't love that, but he kind of understood it was a special relationship. And that went on for 21 victories. And then sadly, Al Santos dies out at the ripe old age of 97, had an amazing life. And telling his story was fun. too by that. And so now they keep winning tournaments, including, you know, four majors and Phil still keeping those flags. And Bones is like, what the hell? Like him and his wife would host, you know, players and caddies during the Phoenix Open and people would come to their house like,

where are all the flags? And it bothered him in a fundamental way that none of us could ever really understand. And I mean, it'd be like the equivalent of you guys aren't allowed to wear the, the barstool logo. Like, like, Briggs won't let you wear it. Too bad. Right. You'd be like, well, I mean, Why I mean? Rags out of your money, but it's kind of ridiculous you want to wear the fucking logo. Like you can never wear the logo. What an asshole. Give me a logo.

It's like a sense of power over him too, right? It's like I own this and you don't. Yeah. So it's, um, you know, the money times of flags. Yeah. The money times of flags plus some other stuff like it led to this very acrimonious breakup that nobody really knew about. And so to lay it all out there and, you know, poor bones. Like he's on the golf channel because he has his knees replaced and he needs a little break from lug in the bag.

And he gets, he has to talk about Phil and he's like super chipper and, you know, insightful. Like, poor guy was kind of performative, but that was his job. That was the role he had to play. And when you think back on it now, you're like, damn, like, that guy should get into Caddney. That's amazing. Would you like a delicious drink Trent and Frankie that's good for you, Trent and Frankie that has electrolytes, vitamins, antioxidants, coconut water and tastes great. Trent and Frankie?

Yes. I would love that. You know what that might be? I love coconut water. So if we can put coconut water and everything, I'm in. Body armor light. Okay. That's what we're talking about.

So good. Is the low calorie sports drink hydrating your active lifestyle? We are active this week. We're all over the mouth. I have body armor stocked in my fridge at home. I got a really cool fridge, got a little screen on it. Oh, that's a big trip. Wow.

That thinks like a magic trick. Dude, it's crazy. I couldn't figure it out. The fridge is insane. Your fridge has a screen? Yeah. Like a guy who helped me out? I have a guy who helped me out.

Is it talk? A PC Richards who essentially got me like a bundle of the coolest TV and the coolest refrigerator. I'm not saying it fell off the truck, but I got a good deal. Well, if you're doing every podcast being like, hey, if I, is there a refrigerator guy out there? You know, I'm going to pay my house. I had to pay for it. I'm a table guy out there.

No, that, that, that refrigerator is, it's technologically. That's why I'm traveling the fucking world. Pay for that one refrigerator. But I will say, I have it stocked with body armor light, and that's not even a joke or just for the ad. It's right there on the right side. I've got their huge bottles, and I have them lined up on the right side. I love the flavors.

No matter what, flavor I pick up. I'm telling you right now. It's so refreshing. You have the competition. It doesn't give you the refreshing quenching of the thirst that body armor does. It's lighter. It's it tastes closer to water, but it has the taste. Does that make any sense? Yeah. Sometimes the other ones get flemy and it and it just you drink it when you're soaking hot and you're sweaty and you drink a competition of body armor. I don't know if we're allowed to talk about the competition. And you end up just like body armor goes right down man. I'm telling you. Pottianmer lights delicious. You get all flavors on Amazon. Go check it out. That's what we drink. That's

what our super fancy refrigerators that I don't have, but that Frankie has is, I read notes on it. Good morning. Really? Does it say it out loud? Does it talk? It does a lot of things, dude. I can see the inside refrigerator from my phone right now. See what we're like missing. What? Like it's a baby camera? You just like see the shelves. Unbelievable. It's a wild. We're going to look at that word down here. Yeah. Why would you need to see the shelves? If you're at the grocery store, you want to see like, oh, do we have any butter or something? You're like, oh, look in the inside. I would have the I would have the same question you had And then he just answered it with the best answer

Yeah I was the milk like up and talking And what's going on? That person's like Toysworth got to be real We're putting cameras everywhere The butter is now hanging out with the cheese The shit's real The shit's real

They're plotting a tanker What's that movie where they're Oh it's the Seth Rogen movie where they're all like hot dogs and shit Sausage party What a weird movie body armor body armor light all flavors are available on amazon uh i want to talk about some of the on the record off the record stuff because clearly there was a disagreement with the comments about saudi and phil claimant they were off the record i mean how is that just a case of just one person just lying yes and it's not me

i mean as i said i went to phil you know three times and asked him to do interviews for this book and he knew i was dying to talk to him for this book and there are judgment calls like you guys know you're just BS with someone on the reins and they say, hey, you know, did, did you hear that so-and-so broke his hand in a fistfight in a bar, you know, player or caddy? And like, well, that's interesting. You might want to use that on the air, but you'd say, it's not a formal interview. You're just two guys talking. And you'd say, hey, can I use that? And they'll be like, well, okay, but don't use my name or, okay, but let me clean up the quote. I don't want to say, you know, whatever. And there's a little dance you do, and that's part of this intimacy between the players and

the reporters. But I would submit, this is a very different scenario. Like, I have gone to fill three times and I've begged him to talk to me and now he's finally ready to talk to me and he calls me he instigates the whole thing like every single syllable is going directly in the book unless he tells me otherwise that's been made very clear it's made exceptionally clear and he never asked to go off the record if he had I would have pushed back really hard because it's a two-way street like it's a it's a consensual relationship you know and um if he'd asked i'd be no dude this is our only chance to talk like and maybe we'd hash it out and say okay you can use this you can't use that He just started talking. He opened a vein and it goes to his motivation like why and I just think Phil was so desperate to show me how smart he was and that he had he was smarter than everybody else in the game and that he had masterfully pulled all these levers of power and it just he couldn't help but tell me and you know when he picked up the phone did he mean to tell me everything I don't know I mean you guys know that you guys know this from your job people start talking they get carried away they get emotional Trent had to like defend a

Ukraine one time in a draft about alcohol. I don't want to bring that up. I don't want to talk about it. He said white Russian. Is that what it was? It was. Yeah. And you had already you almost got canceled. I pretty much. And then he's just running downhill. I had to have a cocktail drinks and he had to say I support

Ukraine and I'm not. He came out and he's like, boys, it got really sideways and then we're like what happened? Why didn't you just draft like a margarita? I felt like I was on fire. I was just like my whole body was engulfed it was. Yeah. But that's how it is. Yeah. So you know how far Phil wanted to go I can't say but it's not my job to give him guardrails like he tiptoed to the edge of the cliff and he looked down he's like dude that looks refreshing I can take the

plugs like I'm not the lifeguard like this is not a jittery rookie doing his first ever interview this is a master manipulator of the media this is a guy who spent his whole career charming and bullying and cajoling reporters and that's all in the book too and the idea that he would tell me anything I didn't want to know for this book is it's nonsensical like phil he never opens his mouth without an agenda right and now he wildly underestimated the the blowback and honestly so did i like i knew what he was saying in the moment was was going to be controversial and was going to was going to provoke a reaction like i never imagined he'd be sent into exile for all these months and after i was done with the book self-sent to yeah oh yeah it's a kind of combo but like some really smart people in the game read the

manuscript and my editor my agent all these people no one flashed on it like we talked about a lot other things like not one person said wow this this could end Phil's career like really it just because when you read the whole book in the context it almost feels inevitable something's coming right he's always he's got yeah he'll win and then he'll say something stupid yeah yeah like there's you start with the you know the insurrection at the rider cup then you go to shinikot kills then you go to him battling that that the reporter in Detroit about the mobbed up bookie story and like Phil has kind of made himself this agent of change and this this this guy who wants to take things on so this you could feel this coming in some ways but when you get the excerpt all that's cut away and so it's a little more

glaring and it i think it had a little it's more impactful that way and stripped away of some of the context so again that's why i'm glad people get the whole book and they can see it how the whole thing unfolds but um it's a wild turn of events and i never could have predicted it since the those quotes were released which was uh the excerpt was released in february you said yeah Have you heard directly from Phil? The day they dropped, he sent me a text expressing his displeasure. And I wrote back and then had more to say a little bit later. And I text him again, but it didn't go through.

You know, you get that little green line. Oh, that's a nightmare. That's a trick. And then some other people told me they've tried to reach out to him. So either I was blocked or he changed his number, but other people couldn't get through either. So I think he just changed his number. And I did send him the book a few weeks ago with a handwritten note. Sent it to his lawyer.

He said he'd put it in his hands because I did want Phil to see it before the public. and knowing he's probably trying to decide he's going to play this tournament I think he deserved to know what's in the book and see that there's not any more earthquakes on the magnitude of the Saudi stuff and everything else you can survive

and he can probably talk his way out of and so I wanted to give him all the information I haven't heard back, I haven't gotten a critique yet Do you think he's read it? In your both, and you're just guessing. Yes, I don't know how you could it. Like if someone wrote a book about your life that's been everywhere

and turned your world upside down, I think you'd probably want to read it. Well, I remember Zuckerberg when, what's the movie I'm liking on the name? Social Network. Social Network came out. He had said for like a year. He's like, yeah, yeah. And then day one, he went like with his whole staff.

He saw the movie. And he was pretty good, actually. Anybody who has a bookering about them, they read that book. Yeah. That would be my guess. Without a doubt. I mean, you know, Phil. Does that make you nervous?

Not nervous, but like uncomfortable, you know? Because you have a relationship with the guy. Yeah. I mean, no, I'm glad he's reading the whole book. And I sent a handwritten note and I said something to fact like, Like, I hope you can read this with an open mind and see that was written with a lot of affection. And that's the honest truth. Whether he can do that remains to be seen.

But I know, I'm glad he's getting in the whole book. And you can see there's a lot in there that celebrates his virtues. And there's a, you know, get into the large scale philanthropy he's done and all his mentorship of young players. And he's spread a lot of goodwill through the universe. And I was happy to celebrate that. And I think it's an important part of the book. So. But again.

You can't just tell one side of the other. So all the controversies in there too. And when he sees the whole thing, hopefully he'll be like, yeah, okay, I don't love it, but it was fair. Do you think you and him will inevitably have a long sit down someday? That's a great question. I hope so. I mean, the book starts at the 1999 PJ Championship when Phil's in my face and he's like saying,

just throw the first punch. Awesome start by, you dive right in. Yeah. Thank you. And, you know, we've obviously had our ups and downs interpersonation. as I lay out in the book, you know, I've been to his house, we've dined together, when he wanted to the open at Muirfield in 2013. I was drinking champagne with him and Amy.

Like, we definitely buried the hatchet and we had a productive working relationship, even if there's always a little edge there. So I would like to think so. And I'll be curious when Phil comes back to public life. Is he going to attack the book and attack me, which is fine? You know, it's good for sales. It's good for sales. Hopefully he does.

It's been vetted by a team of Simon Schuster lawyers. I'm not worried about that. Or is this pledge to be a better man? Is he going to maybe this self-reflection he talked about? Maybe they'll say, you know, it was fair and I deserve some of that. And that's a mystery. We don't know. But it'll be interesting.

That first press conference, I'm sure I'll be in the room. Like, that's going to be awkward as hell. But, you know, for both of us. Hey, Phil. Yeah. Bill, I'll ship, you know, fire pick collector over here. Yeah. Can we talk about that seminar on number 13?

Yeah. It would be so deflated. Did you catch out a little heavier there? Yeah. I mean, maybe I'll just go just pure golf. That'd be amazing. That's just all you cover with Phil. Yeah.

That's what the tweak in the clubs you're using in the bag there. Is that a deal off your three wood a little bit? Yeah. I mean, there's, Phil and I've always had this funny relationship. Like, I mean, this is in the book, but he already knew I was doing it when he went to the November Masters. And I asked him a question in the press conference.

You know, he's in that big cavernous room in Augustine Nashville. And he gave some little answers. He's like, I said, you know, is it fun for you to come in here and perform on this big stage? Because he doesn't do too many pre-tournment press conferences anymore. And he's like, yeah, you know, I've kind of kept a low profile, but I'm always happy to come in and see you, Alan. And like, you know, it was like, there's a term I learned in the South called smile fuck. You know, he was kind of smile fucking. But it was funny.

Like, I enjoyed it. And like, we've always had that banter. And so, you know, I'm sure he's mad at me. He may be mad at me forever. And that's part of the job. But we'll see what happens. I'm always amazed, overwhelmed really by the book writing process because it would be overwhelming for me. And when you mentioned vetting it with the lawyers, the sourcing.

Juggling the off record on record. Yeah, yeah. Is it ever just overwhelming? You're just like, oh, man, you got a family, you know, you're coaching, you know, you're coaching girls, high school basketball. You know, a lot going on. A lot going on. And honestly, so I started work on this book in the summer to 2020.

And it was, you know, it was the peak or maybe the nadir of COVID, however you say it. And it was great in that there was no access to players at tournaments, but everyone was home and bored. And I had so many, like, hour and a half long conversation. The Hall of Fame golfers had literally nothing better to you. Right. Then tell me their Phil story. So that was great.

And then worked out really hard fall into the winter of 21. And then in February of 2021 really launched the Firepick Collective and spent three months just grinding, you know, day in and day out. And I didn't touch the book for three months. And in early May, 2021, I call my editor. I was like, I cannot get this book done for 2022. There's just no way. I'm so far behind. He's like, fine.

No big deal. It's evergreen. 23 is fine, 24, take your time. And then, you know, less than two weeks later, Phil wins the PGA championship. And that Sunday night, I get a text on my editor. Books due December 1st. Don't let me down.

I was like, fuck. Yeah, Jesus. So, yeah, it was intense. But it was also I thrived on the energy. And, you know, like my son, who's 14, he'd come in and say good night. I'd be at my desk at midnight. And he'd like, he's a really affectionate kid.

He'd get in my lap and hug him. He's like, I'm sorry, you're having to work so hard. I was like, buddy, I'm having a great time. Like, this is a blast. Yeah. Like, because like during the day, I have my day job, on my kids. I have all this stuff. And I did most of my writing from like 8 or 9 p.m. until whenever.

And the phone, you quietes down. Sometimes I even just turn the Wi-Fi off. And that was bliss. Like, I looked forward all day long to getting to that point. Yeah. Interesting. And so it is a lot to juggle. And, you know, I did hundreds of interviews.

And while I have the interview, you have a transcripts, like, you kind of have to know in your head what you got. Right. And so you can just, you can find it. and put it where it belongs. And so the amount of clutter was unbelievable. And every time you finish a chapter, you can close a bunch of tabs on your research and you can kind of cut and paste some interviews,

put them in another and doc, you're like, okay, I'm done with that. The college years are over, like thank God. And so, you know, I've been doing this not long enough. That's my seventh book. I've another one coming out later this year. So I've done this, I've been through this process and I kind of know how to compartmentalize

and I can already see the chapters before I even write them. And so it gets easy. year but yeah it's it took over my life for sure man that's wild that's just it's cool it's it's what it takes right you immerse yourself in it i feel like you probably are i imagine it would be weird to in person even see phil nicholson now because you've been so immersed in his life yeah that's true i mean my first year covers you in the face i mean he's been waiting sales i mean he's been waiting a quarter century i know someone to throw the first punch it's not you might see the book as the first punch well that's well said trent i mean

Believe me, when we square up, I'm ready to duck, man. Like, I like that be. But if he plays in a live golf, is all the media going to it? So that's interesting. I was just talking to Matt Janelle about this. Like, part of me doesn't want to legitimize it. Like, you know, I've been very critical of the Saudis through the years and especially in the context of this book.

Rightfully so. Yeah. We know they're bad actors on the world stage. But on the other hand, this is a big moment in golf. Like the whole world order of golf is threatening to be. blown up. And so I kind of feel like I need to be there, even though it's the week for the U.S. Open and it's a complicated time. I've got kids graduate in high school and all the stuff. But I kind of feel like it's going to be a fascinating exercise. The energy around it is going

to be unusual. If Phil goes, I'm sure I'm going to go. At least we'll know that a few days ahead of time. But so yeah, it's a big moment for the sport. I mean, it's an existential threat to the PGA tour. And how this all plays out is going to be. Literally fascinating. There's nothing else like it in the sports world, right? Yeah. I mean, what other league is threatened by an existential league? You know, the XFL is a joke.

Yeah. It has been forever every time they've tried it. You probably have to go back to the USFL in like the 80s. Because that was never going to be the NFL, but they had some blue chip talent and they had some money and they had some TV. Like the whole thing blew up. But they tried and they made a run at it. But yeah, it's unparalleled. And, you know, these golfers love to call themselves independent contractors.

That's why they don't go play the Quad Cities and whatever because they can pick and choose. But the reality is it's more complex. They don't go play the Quad Cities? Where's that? Is that near Iowa trip? Zach Johnson? I mean, some people think it's a fifth major.

It is the fifth major. What was the year they had zero out of the top 50 players of the world play? Continue with your point. I was more interested in that one. My point is they're not entirely free agents because if they want to go play in these live golf events, they have to ask permission from the tour. And being a tour member confers great benefits.

All these humongous bonus programs that the best pension in sports. Yeah. And so they, it's kind of like having to ask your spouse for permission to cheat on them, you know? Right. And they don't always give that permission. Right.

And then claiming that you're single. So I mean, not really. Exactly. Kind of married. It's messy. And so how this is going to play out is going to be utterly fascinating. And, you know, for the players, they won't say this, but they want the Saudis to succeed because the dream would be you can keep your tour membership.

You can play the FedEx Cup. You can cash the pension and then you can cherry pick all the Saudi events that you want with these monster paydays. Like that's the dream scenario for these guys. And if this is sanctioned by an antitrust judge, then it gives them some cover like, hey, the federal government said it's okay for me to go over there. It's all good, guys. Well, one of the great ironies of this whole thing is that Phil has actually been extremely successful. Yeah. Like the tour has had to do all sorts of things in reaction to what this threat has been.

No doubt about it. They've had to come out with the PIP and the bonus and then raise the PIP. and the bonus and then raise the prize pools for all these tournaments they're outrageous now people were winning two three four million dollars and they win a tournament because of what they've done so ironically he's gotten what he wanted that's part of the irony or maybe the tragedy this is phil had a lot of good points and he was actually making progress like he was winning these right they create this nftc program that's largely because of phil's advocacy and um so if you just maybe stayed the course and not worked both sides so hard but just wouldn't call that one ship that one five night i mean i mean

I sometimes wish he never called me. Because like the book was done. I was doing a week. Like I was just, you know, adding a few commas here and there, but it was done. And it already was really lively and really fun. And it was juicy. I had the bone stuff. I had the Billy Walters.

I had the gamut. There was enough stuff in there to satisfy the people who wanted the secrets. And if he hadn't called me, this would be such a different moment for both of us. And like, I think about that sometimes. I mean, once he told me that stuff, it would have been like journalistic malpractice, to use it. I could never have not, but like if you'd never picked up the phone, and by the way, it was a Sunday afternoon during football season. Like, um, enough people have said to me, do you think Phil was drunk? Yeah. I've had to think of it. I mean, he's not really that kind of drinker.

He's more like a nice bottle of red at dinner. You said he hates taste. He hates it. He hates it. Which is ironic as he pimps beer for a living. Like, I was just going to say, oh, he's maybe having a couple beers, but like, that's not Phil. That's not Phil. So he sounded fine. I don't think he was under the influence, but you just took advantage. You just like, public relations, like took advantage. Andrew Phil Nicholson. Yeah, it just happened. I'm sure he regrets the phone call.

I know I think about it all the time. And like he used the word reckless in his statement, talking about that whole conversation. He was reckless, but I almost think that was part of the fun for him. He is an adrenaline junkie. And whether it's trying to carve a three iron around a big Norwegian elm on the 70 second hole at Wingfoot,

when you could have just laid up and played it safe, like I think he kind of got off on telling me these secrets, knowing it was dangerous. but he couldn't help himself like that that's my only analysis of the situation like I would not actually makes the most sense I would not have known this stuff if you hadn't told me it's crazy you called that drive the worst drive in history and go I mean first of all all things considered it was a hundred yards off life in history but with so much at stake like not only the u.s. open which you know would have ultimately given him the career grand slam in hindsight but he would

have gone a number one in the world he would have been player of the year all these things he's never been able to attain there within his grasp. And you said given the stakes and the result, it could quite possibly be the worst drive in golf history. There's no question. We're all safe. Yeah. You can hit one 100 yards off line.

It doesn't matter. This was so much. And obviously, we've talked about all these other things. There's a lot of fun golf stuff in this. Really good golf stuff. Like that chapter on wing foot is one, maybe my favorite part of the whole thing. Awesome. And like I read the audio book for this, which was,

a great challenge and it was a lot of fun and i had this engineer in my year every time i'd mess up and um you'd always tell he said i know something exciting is coming because you start reading too fast i got to slow you down that whole chapter man i was racing through because i was dying to get to the last hole and and to bring all those voices who are like monday morning quarterback and you got big jack you have hale erwin andy north nick fowh um bones chimes in hard about like yeah like all these people who have won multiple u.s opens or they are these great tacticians and just wilding out on Phil like it's unbelievable and but i was right there i mean i was it's in the book i was standing in the fairway with rick smith his swing coach as phil was looking over the second shot

and trying to decide what to do and when phil hit that shot and he caught it you know he caught it flush he was lucky it went in this trampled area he had a good lie and it was heading for the tree it was like in slow motion and it hit that trunk it's still the loudest crack i've ever heard on a golf course it was just the acoustics were unbelievable and Rick Smith went ashen like his life just changed and he knew it like before that ball you stop rolling he's he's done he's fired and and and and it just unspools from there like in this horror show um you know Phil gives his famous you know I'm an idiot press conference and I mean he looked he was wearing a yellow shirt he turned that color coming up the 18th fair he the magnitude hit him the four yellow shirt yeah exactly and so you know

Part of my job is to go where the cameras can't go. And so after all that plays out, it's like, where's Phil? And so I went into the Wingfoot Clubhouse. It was a great old-timey clubhouse. Fantastic. Yeah. He's upstairs. One of my favorite bars in all golf.

Oh, yeah. And those ginger snaps at the turn and the peanut butter. Oh, I had like a thousand of them. And, you know, the fans are in the ceiling. It's all hot and stuffy up there. And Phil's got his head in his hands and he's just broken. Yeah. I mean, I've never seen an athlete so broken.

And Amy comes up and she whispers, I'm actually like, I think he's in shock. like it was probably a good medical diagnosis and um it was just incredible and you know those are like the little stolen moments that i think give this book like a real intimacy because i was just there i've been there for for the victories for the slapstick defeats i've been in the press tents i've been in the parking lot i've been on the putting green i've been in his freaking souped up golf cart where you know we're hitting 50 miles an hour and the tires are chirping on every corner and he's like admonishing me for not turning like you know i'm like hanging out of it like combat the g forces like

So I've been there. Like I lived this stuff with Phil. And I mean, it's been a journey for both of us in its own way. And to bring it all together was a great challenge. But it was also, it was a heck of a lot of fun. I love the moments when you guys do one-on-one and he reaches across and turns off the tape recorder.

Yeah. To like tell you things. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Like he's so cagey. And so the idea I somehow outfoxed him in this phone call is ridiculous. Yeah.

Right. Like he is a master manipulator. And, you know, he just, just is one time. He just didn't quite read the room. And he's still the follow-outs ongoing. Yeah. Well, look, it's a fantastic read. And like you just described at the end there, I mean, there's probably nobody better to write it.

You've been there for all, all sorts of moments with Phil. So Alan Shipnuck, go check. It's out everywhere now. Everywhere, yeah. Give us the title one more time. Phil, the rip-roaring and unauthorized biography of golf's most colorful superstar. It's perfect. It's a great read. The reads better, the reads faster than the subtitle.

Like, we'll get through the book quick. No, we appreciate it. It's a great read. I highly recommend everybody to go check it out. Thanks to having me, guys. This is a great fun. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for coming.