Fore Play - Jon Rahm’s Caddie, Adam Hayes

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

Adam Hayes, a 20+ year veteran caddie who’s been on the bag for Jon Rahm since 2016, joins the show (59:15). We discuss big moments at the Masters, Rahm’s fiery attitude during competition, and Adam’s journey that’s led him now to working alongside golf’s world no. 1. Before Adam, the squad breaks down Fitzpatrick’s playoff win over Spieth, Rory losing out on $3M, Trent being a test character for courses, Justine Reed tweets, and attending this week’s Zurich Classic.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Oh, Rick! What's that my brother? I got a buddy who struggles with that shot. A lot. His name's Frankie Borrelli. So the guys actually gave him a nickname of Butterknives because he always knites and across the green.

Bro, 100. Now you've got to break 90s. We appreciate what you guys do for golf. It's been really cool. Thank you. You're making it cool. I was like, hey, Phil, you only fucking $29.99. And he grabs 100.

He's like, yeah, I won 90,000 a lease yesterday. He goes, take 100 and go fuck yourself. What? What are you that different? It's ain't a hobby. Foreplay presented by Barstool Sports and brought to you. I'm sorry, I messed that up. It's FourPlay presented by Chevrolet brought to you by Barstool Sports.

That's what we do here at the Four Play Golf Podcast. You've got Trent Ryan, the Iowa Native, with us today. And Dan Rappaport checking him from where? Where are you at? I'm in California. My parents' house. My fiancé lost your job, unfortunately. We're not going to name the law firm.

We're not going to name the law firm that later off, but it was a mean one, a very mean law firm. But per her severance agreement, I don't think we're allowed to publicly disparage that law firm. So read into that as you will. But we have some free times for in California. Amazing. RBC Heritage, obviously, an amazing, amazing event. Oh, and Riggs is going to be with us. We have an interview for today's show.

And that's happening, what, like in like an hour? So Riggs is going to hop in here. So you guys have to stick around for that. Yeah, we've got, we got Adam Hayes, the caddy of John Rom Masters Champion. He's going to join the show. We haven't done that yet. We're doing that after we record this portion of the show. So I'm excited.

I'm excited to talk to him. Adam Hayes, that's a Danny Rap get as well. Very rich caddy. Very, very rich caddy. This guy, and we'll talk to him about this, started off as an elbow. PGA caddy, worked for some good players. Jonathan Byrd, I think, was the one that he was on for a long time. But then he struck gold with a young Spaniard named John Rom.

And yeah, I think he's made like millions and millions and millions. You can do the math, millions and millions of dollars over the last couple of years. And John Rom's only 28 and it's only April. So things are going well for Adam Hayes. Incredibly interested to see where his mindset has always been. And if it's kind of like, did it take him some time to get. used to the way that John Rom has to operate. We've talked to Dr. Brett McCabe, who works with John Rom on the mental side.

And John has his whole entire team when it comes to, like, how he approaches the game. And in our podcast with him, he talked about how he loves the passion. But, man, when you're working with a caddy and you're one-on-one, you're on that team, like, that guy needs to be able to share that same mindset with that process as you do or else you just come off like a huge dick and you make your life a living hell. like with barstool and when we work with Dave, Dave has a certain way of doing things. And if you can't roll with those punches and kind of like learn how to adapt with the way that he works, you're like, your life is fucking hell.

You're like, man, this guy hates me and he's yelling at me. And he's like, he wants me to be better. And he's like so fucking, he's always 100 miles an hour. If you're not capable of handling that with John Rom, who's similar in that aspect where he's like, we're going to fucking do this. And if we don't, we're going to get really mad. That's going to be, that's really interesting to see like, Was he always like that or did he have to adapt?

Because that's not the easiest thing to adapt to. I'm sure we'll get into that with him. That's the number one thing we got to ask him about what it's like. I mean, we talked to John Rom about, you know, his passion and the way he conduct himself on a golf course. His answer was super interesting. I'm sure it'll be, it'll be great to get an answer from the guy who has the front row seat to all of that. That's right. Shout out to Mani Fitzpatrick.

What a win at Harbor Town. He has the whole story of why it means so much to him. Danny, I'm sure that you were on the edge of your seat watching that playoff against Jordan's Bhe. He really just showed up and he hit shots when he needed to hit shots. He's a fucking, I mean, it must be crazy for you, Dan, because Matt Fitzpatrick is a legitimate superstar in the game of golf. The way that he can hit some of these shots in the moments that he has to hit them,

you go back to the U.S. Open hitting it out of the bunker and then like now just shot for shot with Jordan Speath and all time great of his generation and just like staring him through his eyes and just like shoving it down his throat and hitting a fucking perfect. shot in the perfect moment. Like that is not something that you just learn how to do. You're born with that shit. Matt Fitzpatrick is a fucking stud.

He really is a closer. He's a closer. He knows how to close out golf tournaments, which I think he gets into this mode where he just seems to hit like the same one yard draw every single time. He just, he's not someone you want to play against coming down the stretch because he doesn't hit wild shots.

And that puts a lot of pressure to play against. You know with Spief that things are going to be a little haywire. There's going to be an occasional hook or an occasional, you know, kind of push cut into the trees. When you're playing against Matt, it's just center of the face, center of the fairway, center of the green. Constantly. And Spief just gave him too many chances. Like obviously everyone thought that the putt on the first playoff was going in. That one lips out.

And then he had another put after Matt missed on the second playoff hole. And I think it was Colt Nost, who said, you can't keep leaving a player of Fitzpatrick's quality. You can't leave the door open like that eventually. He's going to make a birdie. And it was the same nine iron that he hit out of the bunker. So yeah, he's two wins. He obviously has a flare for the sentimental. He had the personal connection to the country club with winning US AM there.

And then he's got Hilton Head. So whatever Matt, like whenever he feels warm and fuzzy about a golf course, maybe that's the week to bet on him. But, you know, talking about Superstar, it's been really fun to watch his progression. And, you know, he's, he's in a different category now than he was before. And his life is very different now than it was before. So we're not, we're not as close as we were just because he has so many different acts of his time. And golf is, like you said, he's, he's on a tier where golf is absolutely everything.

And he knows that he's in his window for winning. And he's in his window for capitalizing on everything that he's worked for for his whole career. So it's been, it's been special to watch. And I think he has a little bit of a brand now of kind of, on what you were mentioning of just being like a stone cold assassin. Totally. And has he, so I saw on Twitter a lot of people were like surprised that when John Rom went on to the, went went to the booth for the commentary.

And he was on the broadcast and really being candid about the way he likes to talk about golf and how obsessed he is with the game of golf. I feel like I saw a lot of tweets like surprised at that. These guys all when you get to that level have to be legitimately obsessed with it. I mean, or else you just become the Brooks where you're just like, why would you not care about this. Like obviously you care about every aspect of this game. It's like if you know, it's the same thing with you and you hang out with the hockey guys. It's like they love hockey. I mean, it's, they're hockey guys. These guys are golf guys. But when you get to that point of Matt,

with Patrick now, though, like I feel like it has to rev up because he has to have some sort of edge over the other guys to be that stone cold killer to be able to go against Jordan Spee. You have to be, it has to take over your life. I feel like when you're younger, when your buddies with them like more often, And even in the Netflix series, you're sitting at his house before Major. It's like crazy. And now it's like, this guy thinks that he can be the winner of all of these tournaments. You have to have some sort of mind change or like, you know, your process has to change a little bit for that mindset to get that extra edge to have that leg up on those guys.

A hundred percent. And yeah, it's different. But it's not a bad different. It's he's the number. He's the eighth best at what he does in the entire world. And I think if you were. were to talk to the eighth best CEO in the whole world or the eighth best football player in the whole world, you know, his relationship with his friends and his relationship with the outside

world, it, it changes when you, when you reach that level. Like it, you know, you talk and obviously, it's, it's not black or white, right? It's not like, it's not like you become a completely different person and you forget where you came from, but your priorities change. I don't think we'll be having dinner before the final round of majors because of what you talked about. It's different now. When, when you feel like you're in that category and you're in that, you're in that, tier. You don't want to waste your time. You don't want to waste your window. And Matt is also a unique case where he doesn't feel like he's as naturally gifted as the other players. And he knows that what's been key to his success is that obsession with getting 1% better. And you guys know

what it's like too. Like when something does well, when a video does well or it motivates you to do more. It's not it's not like, oh, you know what? I'm fine now. It's like, Holy shit. Like we can, we actually have the potential to do really cool shit. Let's put the pedal to the metal even further. I'm sure you get obsessed with the feeling too. That feeling of winning a golf tournament, I can't even imagine it. Like when in the U.S. Open is a life-changing event.

And then, you know, 10 months later winning this event that you've been coming to your whole life. You have a special connection to. Yeah, I totally, the window thing is, is a great point. There's only so many windows. Some people don't get any window at all. Most people, the vast majority of people don't get any window. large majority of people, especially in the game of golf, there's no window. It's a windowless building. There's none of it. But for Maddie Fitzpatrick, he's, there's a window right now and it's

wide open. He's playing well. He just has such great control of his swing. And that, that speed training, it seems to have really paid off. I forget what it's called, but he's obviously hitting it further. He can hit it with the best of them. Yeah, he's just got a window right now. Stack system. Sasha McKenzie, who, uh, stay tuned. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's what you, I think you're going to see a lot of the stack system and that's going to be very interesting. You know that we've been part of the Chevy EV family, but we have big news, Trent Daddy, the first ever all electric Silverado is officially Barstool's most valuable truck. We got the chance to see this thing and experience it.

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Go see the exterior. You're going to be blown away by this first ever, all electric silverado from Chevy. Chevy.com to learn more. You talk about Matt Fitzpatrick, but we also have to talk about Jordan Speeth in the same vein. Fitzpatrick is a closer, but holy shit, Jordan.

Like, it's just the ball just wouldn't go in the hole for this guy in those playoffs. It's just he's such a roller coaster. sir to watch as a Jordan speed fan you want him to win you want him to rack up all of these victories so that at the end of the at the end of his career you got a chance to watch a great of his generation i love when guys who have wins stack up more wins i've always been a big fan of that so i was rooting for jordan speed coming down the stretch i'm like i would love to see this guy go back to back i want harbortown to fire off two cannons next year and do all these things that they were talking about on the broadcast.

And those balls are just lipping out. And he's just short on the short side. It's like, why does this happen to Jordan Speath? Why is it such a roller coaster? Why can't it be easy for him? It's almost like watching the islanders. Like, why he, he's doing a lot of things that he deserves the win. And why can't it just fall for this guy?

Yeah, I, um, it takes some kind of stones to, to raise your putter on an early walk for a put to win the tournament. That thing was going in though. It was going in the whole way until it wasn't. But I mean, unless it's like a five footer and it's dead straight, I just, the early putter race to win the tournament, you're just setting yourself up for failure. I love it. It's obviously epic if it wins. But if it doesn't, then you're setting yourself up for an all-time gift.

Yeah, you know, I think one of the things with Jordan also is that he shows how much it takes out of him. You know, like other golfers, sometimes there's a roller coaster, but they don't really show emotion. Jordan Speeth after he made that put on each or after he made the putt to get into the playoff he was like it was like he had been through war and I think I think it's it's that emotion that brings fans on the journey with him that's all part of it I get what you're saying like Frankie I'm I'm usually rooting for him um but I'm also just there to experience what Jordan speed is going to do it's like when he got into a playoff with Maddie fits it was less about I'm rooting for Jordan Speath it was more I'm excited to see what fucked up shit Jordan

Speeth is going to do in this playoff. And that, as much as I want him to stack up wins and be an all-time great, he's pretty much there already. He's had like two parts of his career pretty much. And I want to see him get more wins, but I just want to see him be involved. And there was that stretch not too long ago where he wasn't involved anymore. And people were like, what is happening? Where is Jordan Speeith? So just the fact that we have him back in our lives and we have that anxiety watching him, that's enough for me. He is, he does the, the early raise and that's a part of his game. He does a twirl on every single iron shot approaching the green. Even on 18, even in the, in the playoff at the final shot, he like twirled that club and the ball like flew the green on the back of the green.

You're like, I thought he matched Fitzpatrick. I'm like, this is great. Like, like when you're watching this guy react, you're like, that's in the hole. And then the ball just like flies over the green. and he has like an 80-foot pot to try and like push this match. But that's just who he is. He's a roller coaster of emotions on Twitter. It's very funny to watch like the Jordan,

the Jordan Speeth experience, all these guys. I know Kyle Porter a lot of the times will get in the mix on like the screenshots of just like a Jordan Speath round where it's like he's like hitting a ball lefty next to a tree and he's inside somewhere. And then they'll show just like they'll show all the people around him. His whole entire team just so drained from the Jordan's Steve experience. I fucking love it.

Yeah. Yeah, he made me laugh really hard. I mean, he does it a lot. But on 17 yesterday, in the second hole of the playoff, he's, him and Adam Hay, or not, sorry, Adam Hayes is on my mind. Him and Michael Greller are going back and forth on shots. And Speath's like, oh, yeah, is there wind up there? Like, you think the wind will hit it?

And Greller goes, yeah, yeah, the flag's moving. And there's a quiet silence. And Speath goes, I mean, it's not. That's why I'm asking you. He just said, he just says things like, you would say, do you know what I mean? To your buddy, you're just like on the second hole of the playoff in the RBC Heritage, you're like, well, no.

I'm just going to sound like rigs here. It's like a Riggs. Yeah. It's like, well, well, no. I mean, flag's not moving. That's why I'm asking. Dude, Michael Greller, I picture him as a guy who drinks a lot of bourbon at the end of the day. At the end of every joy, I mean, deep breaths, man.

Deep breaths. And, you know, he does a hell of a job. He's made a ton of money working with Jordan. And they seem like they're really good friends. And that's why they can talk to each other that way. But there's got to be a bottle of bourbon that he just uncorks Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday night and Saturday night if he makes the cut. Greler was like a high school teacher, right? Yeah, he worked in Iowa teacher.

Yeah, from, is that right? Yeah. So, yeah, he definitely has that patience to be able to deal with a young brain that's just so manic and crazy and out of control where he's just like, go ahead. Like, we're going to get through this. You can, you can use me as your punching bag and I'm just going to sit here and I'm just going to wait. But he could, he could act like he's got all the tools to be able to deal with it.

But we know that when he gets home, it's just a big sigh of relief that that's over. It's just a crack of the bottle. You sit down and you sip on it with a nice ice cube and you're just like, fuck, man, another week in the books. Let's just get to the next one because it's exhausting. It has to be exhausting. And we're going to talk to Adam Hayes about what it is about working with a guy that is exhausting. They're mentally exhausting, these top tier athletes that want it so bad. They have to be. Yeah, and caddying is a unique role in professional sports. It's like, you know, there's really no comparison. It's not like a coach in football because, you know, you have your team. It's like you're sort of on the team in the sense if you're the only guy who can talk to him,

but you can't hit the shot. And if it's a good shot, you know, the player gets the credit. If it's the bad shot, that's when it's the caddy's fault. So yeah, I'm excited to get into the nitty gritty of it. But I think, I think Greller's got also the crazy tan line that all the golfers have and his hair is not doing so hot. So he looks like it's taking a lot out of him. And I'm sure it is. Um, the Patrick Cantley video that went super viral of him just standing over the ball. It looked like it was five years ago. Yeah. It's just it looks at, well, that was a five year ago video. Yeah. That was at Beth page. Oh, wow. See, I got four years. I thought that was like this week. I wasn't even paying attention to like, you're talking about the one where he's just wiggling and

he's like, yeah, he's got like Lexa. Yeah, it's, I mean, it has, it's gotten a little bit better. His, his routine over the ball has gotten a little bit better. But he's just, he just takes so long to decide what he's going to do. That video is insane. I mean, everyone commented on KFC was talking about it. Whitney's talking about everyone on Twitter's like, there's no way this is real. You have, this guy has to be like put in jail for doing that. I mean, how does it, how does anyone playing with this guy be like, that's acceptable? I mean, I know, I know, that you're saying he's gotten better, but that is, that's just a slap in the face. That's a slap in the face to every single person that you're playing with.

That's not what I said last week. Last week I was saying, like, whatever your process is, you have to stay within it. Like some guys play faster. Why are you not allowed to just gain a little bit more time on the other end? But that was egregious. That was like, this is my golf course and you're going to play at my pace. That was fuck, that video. Right.

And I think his persona, he kind of, he almost seems like he leans into it. He's never, you know, he tweeted that he made the, he made the, whole in one and he tweeted something like playing faster, which was definitely funny. But, you know, he's never going to, he's never going to, you know, Max Homa, I think handled it the right way with, which is just lean in, like, be public about it. He was like, yeah, you know, I'm trying to get faster. Patrick's not going to do that. He's just going to wear his all black and he's going to give very, very sort of vanilla

interviews. And it's just sort of like, this is what it is. And, you know, I've said it before. Yeah, it is a slap in the face for sure. But it's also like, it's hard for me not to just blame. him the PGA tour. There is a rule on the book that says you have 45 seconds to play a shot. That rule is broken every time he hits a shot. Like unless they enforce the rules, like you mentioned last week, Frankie, the players are going to, they're playing for so much money.

They have these processes. They're going to do what they feel like they have to do to shoot a lower score. It's the tour's fault. It's the tours fault. But look at what the pitch clock has done to baseball. People love it. People love it. And I'll be honest, I haven't heard much from the players on whether or not they like it. But it has. Who cares? It's seeming like those guys are playing for a lot of money too. Pitchers make a lot of money.

Baseball players make a lot of money in general. I think if they wanted to start enforcing that, they could and it would change golf for them much better. And like before the pitch clock, I would have said no way. You can't change a sport in that way. Dude, baseball is one of the most traditional, slow moving glacier pace change sports in history. And they put a shot a pitch clock in there. and it has transformed the way that a baseball game, the pace of a baseball game.

So it's making an actual, I haven't paid that close of attention. It's making an actual difference. There was a Milwaukee Brewers game, I think, um, that went like two hours and 10 minutes and they had to like change the rules of the stadium to allow more beers to be consumed through the ninth inning.

Usually cut it off after like the seventh inning stretch. Right. In the beginning of the eighth inning, they're like, you can drink until like an hour after the game now because they're not making as much money because the games are going so fast. that's an amazing improvement. And some players are taking advantage of it.

Garrett Cole, I mean, I'm a Yankee fan so there's bias, but he is taking advantage of just like stepping up and like knowing the pitch and not thinking and just going now. And he's 4 and 0 with a 0.85 ERA, a shutout, a complete game. He's got like 40 strikeouts. I mean, the guy's pitching out of control. And you could kind of tell it's like a rhythm thing now where it's like he's getting into a rhythm as opposed to just thinking about every single pitch. So the videos existed like the we see with the Patrick Cantley one in golf, They had a side by side, you know, when the pitch clock first started going where a guy threw one pitch on the one side.

And then on the other side, a guy got through a half a full half an inning in between the guy throwing one pitch. So like it was a problem the way it's a problem in golf. Well, it's like they put the can't lay video side by side with happy Gilmore finishing out. He like five putt. Did you see that? Yeah. Dan, what's the pitch like visible? Is the pitch like visible in, like can you see it from the broadcast or is there like a little? No, it's actually visible for the pitcher. It's like behind the home plate.

So they do that with golf where it's like someone's walking like with the maybe, yeah, like you know they have the walking scorer who's walking around. Maybe there's a little clock on it. What's all right. I think yes. And Dan, what's the penalty technically if they were to enforce it right now? Like if someone goes over, what's the penalty? So they changed it a couple years ago when this, remember there was a whole like news cycle

with Bryson about him playing slow and Brooks called him out and it started this whole thing about slow play. This was before Liv just. dominated everything. And they made some, yeah, there's a policy. It's called like time par, I think it is. And they have a certain, you know, pace that you need to play. And if you get a bad time, which I think should be over 45 seconds, I think is the rule.

Then you're like officially warned. And then, you know, eventually, I think a second bad time, you get a penalty. And it has happened very, very rarely. But not really on the PGA tour. The PGA of America gave John, this guy, John Catlin a slow play penalty like two years ago. And Augusta, I remember Augusta gave their first one in like 40 years to the 14-year-old kid.

And he still made the cut. Yeah, Tin Lang in 2014, he was the first guy to get a slow play penalty in the Masters in like all decades. And he was legitimately 14 years old and they gave him a penalty. He still made the cut, which is pretty epic. But yeah, I mean, if you handed out a slow play penalty on Thursday to Patrick Cantley or to, you know, someone else who's a big name, like that would scare the crap out of these guys.

Now it's they know that there's no, there's no consequence. And that's what, that's what Can'tley said after the round. They were, because, you know, obviously what happened on 14 with his ball nestling between the, the railing and the water, like that's a very unique situation. Yeah, it was a wedge. It was a proper wedge. That's a unique situation. And, and, and, and, but what he said afterwards was, you know, I just needed to make sure that I was 100% committed to what I was going to do. I wasn't really going to pull the trigger until I was 100% committed. That's not how this is supposed to work. You don't get unlimited time.

Right. Everyone would love unlimited time to be 100% committed to what they're going to do. But part of the challenge of the game is being like, all right, it's been 45 seconds. We got to shit or get off the pot. He just sat there and sat there and Doddy Pepper, who is not one to stir up controversy. She got me on Twitter. Does she? That's amazing.

It's an amazing block. I want to check if she still. God, it was years ago. That's an amazing block. That's an amazing block. And then I heard Pasha from Spitting Chicklets. He's like one of the editors. He's like blocked by the New York Rangers because like James Dolan didn't like how much he was talking about the range because he's a devil's fan.

That one made me laugh really hard yesterday. But I mean, Doddy Pepper is such a random block of trip. Yeah, that's crazy. She was saying like, you know, Fitzpatrick and and Speeth were upset. And if you look at Fitzpatrick's caddy who's like Billy Foster's old. British guy who's, you know, doesn't give a crap about offending anybody. You can see on the T, I think it was like on 17 and he's just like, he's just going like this. He's like, oh my God, this is the worst.

I can't believe I'm still out here. So, but again, until the tour changes their policy, nothing's going to happen. I've been free. I've been free by Doddy pepper. Hey, hey. No way. I mean, this is her official Twitter account, which has got the blue check, which I don't know if means anything anymore, but maybe that's not the real her.

Oh, it looks like there's the real, there's real people following her. All right. She had me blocked years ago for some reason, and, you know, somebody must have said like, he's not that bad and got me back into her good grace. Maybe she plays a lot of two K. She's like, who's this Trent Ryan? I'm striping baby fades with him fucking video game. If you suffer from symptoms of ADHD, which is lack of focus, no productivity, your brain is constantly wandering. I mean, is this speaking to me or what? Yeah. You need to check out proper wilds, clean all day energy shots.

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How are you guys playing with your characters? Have you like broken 90 trend? I actually played yesterday like a leisurely round of golf. I was laying on the couch and I just kind of ripped around Tori Pines fucking South. And I shot like a 83 with my guy. It was so much fun. It was crazy. Do you just only play with your guy now? Is it like, yeah. I mean, I'm going to play with myself. I mean, it's hard to not play with yourself. It is hard. It's really hard. It's hard. I, um, no, I've, I've, I've been playing with myself as well. And it's, it's extremely difficult. And I know people have been doing it. Uh, they've been playing with my guy on legend trying to break 90.

And one guy like put up in this story like, here I go. I'm going to try first go at it. And then 30 minutes later, he DM me. He's like, I shot 116. It's the hardest thing in the world. So it is very difficult. It's very difficult. But it's fun.

It's fun. Like it's when you play with Tiger, you play with Colin or you play with whoever, it's pretty easy. easy. It's pretty relaxed. You don't have to be that engaged. But when you're playing with a guy like me and my stats and my attributes, it's like a real round. You like got to focus on each shot. Did you see that design company that tweeted out? They like they do all a bunch of virtual golf courses and golf course designs and actually 2K, um, specifically HP studios when it was just the golf club. They really were, um, hammering home the fact that it was a home for like golf course architects to like try out new styles. And, And it's a real simulation of what your golf course would be. And I mean, for anyone that's interested in that stuff, make sure you buy PG-Tor 2K-23 and go to the course builder. It's amazing technology.

You're talking elevation changes. Everything is to the exact foot and inch. And you can put in first cut a rough, second cut a rough. You can put in trees, the different types of trees. Everything is perfect to what you would want to do in your real course. So much so to the point that, um, Sand Valley actually is building Lido Golf Club based off of what a virtual golf course architect did on PGA Tour 2K21. Someone built Lido Golf Club, rebuilt it from what it originally was here on Long Island, and now they are taking that data and building a real golf course based exactly off that data.

That's incredible. So someone, oh yeah, it's an amazing story. It may have been this guy that did that Lido Golf course, but there's like a group of digital golf course creators that tweeted out that Trent Ryan being in the game now is such an asset for golf course builders to see if their course is realistic enough for the everyday player. Like never had they had the chance to tee off with a guy that could max out 220 and like where the balls would roll. There's never been a combination of technology where it's like the golf course is so really. realistic and the average golfer is here i've got i've got the tier here it's from d r golf design on twitter he said a serious tip for virtual golf designers and pj tour two k play test as barstool trent from the club t's and see if your whole designs make sense for his stats if you want realistic

courses in terms of playability you should be able to play enjoyable round as him without crazy force carries feasible second shots etc etc barstall trent and pjrude two k may not realize how much they've helped us test our courses for different player capability for me, this is really useful. You need a royalty. I mean, you need some of the, you're the biggest gift to golf courts architecture since, but it makes, it makes sense.

Like, if you're building this course, because when you're building a course on 2K23, you can play test each hole. So like when you finish a hole, you can kind of just have a player up there and it's usually your created player. And that guy hits the ball 330 yards. You have a perfect draw.

Your irons will spin right back to the hole. Like everything's perfect because it's just like a created player that you've kind of boosted all the attributes to. and you sort of build the course based off that. Like you put bunkers in places that you want to hit over those. So it's like the distance debate in real golf where it's like who are these courses actually made for? And if you're trying to make a realistic golf course, you actually have to do it towards Trent's style as opposed to the guy that's hitting at 3.30 every single time with a carrier or else your course is not realistic. So it's really, really interesting.

I don't think 2K ever saw it being like realistically useful when they put us in the game. But it's now like you may now help a real golf course be created if you think about it in some weird like butterfly effect way. I knew, you know, I knew my horrible golf was going to pay off for somebody at some point. You know, we've made a decent career out of it. But I'm really happy that it's helping the virtual golf designers. I really am. When I saw that tweet, it brought me a lot of joy. They put in a guy in the video game whose attributes are so low but so normal that he's going to help people design golf courses.

That brings me a lot of joy. That's amazing. It's a legacy. It's a legacy. It's a legacy. Just to finish up the RBC, there's a lot of talk about it being a designated event going in right after the Masters. How do you think it all kind of went together? Were you happy with it?

Yeah. I mean, Rob and I, our social guy, were talking about this. that, you know, he didn't expect to be nearly that locked in the week after the master's. I think it's just the big name sell. The big names are sexy. It's just kind of how it is. I think if you can have a leaderboard like that with, with, uh, Spieth and Can't Lay and fits and our guy saw it who's really, I think he's up to 23 in the world.

So another great. I had him written down just as somebody to mention that he is. Yeah. He's just having, he's just having a great, a great couple months. Um, I think it went pretty well. I'll be interesting to see what the ratings are because it's so hard to tell. you know, golf Twitter is going to be fired. Anytime Jordan Speeds in contention, it's going to feel big with

golf Twitter. It's just whether people had golf fatigue because there was some competition with NBA playoffs and stuff, but there was no football. So there was, I'm interested to see what the ratings come in at. But I would be surprised if they, the one that's really going to be a problem is there's a designated event the week after the U.S. Open, the Travelers, the U.S. opens in Los Angeles.

That's the other side of the car. Yes, then the Travelers in Connecticut. This one at least, I think it's, only like, you know, three hour drive or wherever those guys probably took like a 10 minute ride. These guys are going to have to fly from LA, probably on a red eye, um, to Connecticut for a, for a dozen event the week after. So I, I think the schedule this year was really just thrown together really like copy and paste. Let's do what we can. I think next year will be a much more like even cadence. And I don't think we've done a podcast since the penalty for Rory came down for skipping

the second. Yeah. What was your guys take on that? Because he's got to give up, he's got to give up $3 million from what he made last year. if I'm understanding correctly. Yeah. So basically what they did is with the player impact program, the way they incentivized guys to play in all these designated events is you got 75% of your money in January. So Rory finished second, which was 12 million last year. So we got 9 million after the century in January.

And then the last 25% is contingent upon you satisfying three things, which is playing in, I think, 16 to 17 designated events, playing in one additional event that's not designated and then doing some sort of service day, whether that's, you know, whatever, a clinic or whatever it is. So yeah, he won't get the, he won't get that last $3 million. But I think more just, just optics. What was your guys opinion? It's not good for Rory.

It looks bad for Rory, especially a guy who was one of the loudest voices in the room for these changes, for designated events, for all these guys to get together. Like, that's going to give the best, that's going to result in the best product. that's going to get the most eyeballs. And then for him to miss one, it's, it's bad optics for him. I think there will be changes to the schedule next year. So I don't think this will end up being a problem annually.

But you got to just like what it does, it opens the door for guys to miss. Call him fake. What? I mean, guys can call him, you know, phony now because he's the one pushing. It's a bad, it's a bad look for him. And overall, I think it kind of opens the door for guys. to just do the math on if they want to miss an event or not.

Like Roy doesn't give a fuck about $3 million. $3 million means nothing to Rory. And there's other guys on tour who have so much money, a lot of the guys, that they're like, all right, if I miss the second event, they're going to penalize me this much.

You hope that guys don't do that math, and they just play the events that they're supposed to play. And hopefully the PGA tour changes the schedule next year, so there isn't this issue. But overall, it's just a shit look for Rory, a guy who was the spokesperson pretty much, the whole last year like this is what we have to do to make golf survive in a live world. Yeah, I think it's a shit look for that.

But I also, there's a part of me that loves the fact that he, like, I'm thinking about him being super distraught that he can't perform at the Masters and it took everything out of him that he can't even play a golf tournament this week because he cares so much about it. Or, you know, maybe something's deeper where he doesn't feel right. He, he's maybe a little something. He tweaked something. Has there been any news about it being hurt? No.

And that's another, that's the other thing is that. Jay Monahan just never says fucking anything, which is just crazy to me. So we're all in the dark about why he did it, right? But then a guy like Rom comes out and, you know, not specifically, but he buries Rory. He buries him. That's what I was going to say. It looked, it looked worse in the wake of Rom being like, I'm doing this because like, if I was a kid, I would want to see the master's change.

Yeah, that was a shot. Right. You think that was a shot? Right. When I saw that, I was. Yeah, that's not really how Rom operates. No, it's not, but it ended up being one where it's like, because we see. say Rory is the voice of the PGA tour and Ram basically bringing it to like the kids argument where

it's like if I was a kid I'd want to see the best player I'd want to see the master's champion I'd want to see these guys like up you think it was a purposeful shot or just like you know it happened no I think probably ricochet it's probably ricochet that he didn't realize it was going to hit him but it hit him hard because it's the argument when like the calves used to sit lebron and they would show like or when the lakers sit lebron they'd show like the ticket prices when lebron would go to like this sacramento kings game or like an oklahoma city thunder game and the tickets prices would be like $1,200 to get in. He'd be sitting there just not playing.

It's like, yeah, maybe he doesn't owe it to every single person in that room, but he does kind of owe it to like the people that spent all that money. It's the situation you just put yourself in by being the best of all time. Well, think about the stories. Yeah, think about the stories that you hear of like a Max Homa going to Riviera as a kid. Like those just got to do it. You know, it feels dramatic. You're like, oh, what is, you know, we think the next Max Homa is on property and he's not

going to make it because Rory doesn't show up to this event. But it does matter to kids. Like it sounds so crazy that we're talking about. Like think about the kids, but you kind of do an event like that where they're like Rory McElroy, how many times in your life are you going to get to see Rory McElroy? He's coming to Harbor Town. It's a designated event. And then he's just not there.

Again, I don't think it's going to be an annual issue. I think the schedule is going to get worked out. But this time around, it's not the best look. It is going to get worked out. And also the PIP payouts are not tied to events next year. So that was just this, yeah, that was just this year to get them to play. This year the schedule is just a whack job. But it also must be nice to be so rich that.

Three money bucks. Dude, he also had the weekend off. It wasn't like he was grinding and like he lost in a playoff. And it was just a whole like he missed the cut. He was he was in his bed by. He was home for dinner on Friday evening. Truly vodka, Seltzer, year five of the Barstow Classic.

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vodka seltzers and you will not be disappointed. It's the best truly vodka seltzer at truly hard seltzer. We have our own designated event. I've got breaking news. I hope that everyone kind of just sat up in their office chair. They're kind of like, whoa, what's about to happen? And we have an event coming up, and I'm really excited about this one. I'm starting to rev up a little bit. It's called the Rock City Scramble, okay? It's happening upstate New York in the Rochester area just steps away from Oak Hill. We're coming to the PGA Championship, and we're bringing our own Scramble with us.

I can't wait to be up there. It's Tuesday, May 16th, the Rock City Scramble presented by Fireball Whiskey. tickets for this are going to go on sale this Thursday, 420. So get your weed out of the way, smoke your weeds and do all that stuff. It's 420. But make sure, I think we're probably going to push this at what, like noon?

That would be my guess. We'll probably do this at noon. So noon this Thursday, 420 tickets to the May 16th event will go on sale at the Rock City Stremble. This is the golf course that we're going to be doing. doing it, right? Where am I seeing the golf course? Why are I not?

Orondicoi. Arandicoi. Oh, there it is. I couldn't even pronounce it. Erondicoi Country Club, and I have in quotas, in parentheses, phenomenal track just steps to the milkill. Yeah, that's because Busser is from this area. So he knows about it.

His dad's a member. That's my course I played at Groin. Whoa. That's great. I listen. No, no, no. I like that we've got a guy who's, we're having an event at this golf course. So I want to know what it's like.

100% I love it. I absolutely love it. It's a 1 p.m. shotgun start. Two man scramble, gross scores, no handicaps. You're getting lunch, fireball, cinnamon whiskey. Drinks and snacks are all provided. Whole contest prising prizes for the winning team. Ironda Coy, country club. 44 teams are going to go on sale and we will open up an extra spot at the end if maybe whatever we're going to see. But we have a lot of spots for people. Make sure you get in there will be a wait list. So hopefully as many people that sign out, we can get as many people as we can get in. Fireball cinnamon whiskey. Thank you very much. The Rock City Scramble. We're going to be there for the PGA. Tuesday, May 16th. We're taking over that week, upstate New York. It's a big week for us.

We got major announcements surrounding maybe some merchandise when it has to do with the PGA championship. Oak Hill is going to be a huge week for us and we're kicking it off with you guys at the Rock City Scramble, presented by Fireball Cinnamon Whiskey. Tuesday, May 16th is the event. Write that down. Send it to your buddies. Get it all done. I'm telling you right now, every time we release an event and we talk about it, we say this

with the Barso Classic, 20, whatever it was this year, 24 cities, 24 events. It sold out in three minutes and 20 seconds across the entire country, every single event. And the wait list went up to 3,000 people an hour after the thing sold out. And then we had to cut it off because it's just way too many people to be on a wait list. That's how crazy these events are to get in. So if you're anywhere in this area and you're hearing this right now, this audio right now, and you want to play in this event. Be ready.

We're all going to be there. It's going to be electric. Be ready on Thursday, April 20th, at 12 o'clock Eastern to go on to the website that we will be tweeting out. We will be talking about. Make sure that you're ready for this so that you and your buddies can get in and that you don't have to worry about being waitlisted or not in. We're not usually in upstate New York. This is going to be the first time we've done this. We're not always up there.

We're all over the country. We're finally coming to Rochester. We're right outside the steps. We're right outside the gates of Oak Hill. This is the event to kick off your week. If you're in the Rochester area, you're playing in this event. Alex, pump us up. Give us some words about the golf course.

How close is it to Oak Hill? What's it like? Yeah, I mean, it's great. It's one of the best in the area outside of Oak Hill. And once you get to the back nine on, you know, 13, 14, if you hit a slice a little too far right, you'll be on Oakilles. Oh. It's that close.

Yeah. It's like, like, there's trees on the right side of 1314. And it's boom. it's like right on the other side. I've definitely hit a T ball before. That's awesome. These events are so much fun. It's a golf week.

It's the PJ Championship week. Like people are jazzed up about golf. And Frankie's right. We haven't done one in this area. We're always in like Arizona or Florida or California doing events like this. It's cool that we're doing one in the New York area. I know we've got a lot of fans in New York area. So please sign up.

Please come out. Like Danny said, we're all going to be there. It's going to be fun. Rock City Scramble. It's a two-man scramble reminder. So you're going to sign up with you. and a buddy and it's a one o'clock shotgun 1130 a.m. registration lunch and we should be wrapped up for the whole event around 6.30 that evening. So if you have anything scheduled that Tuesday night,

you can still make it. Make sure you get it. I don't want anyone to miss out. So I think we're going to head right into this Adam Hayes interview right now, which I'm really excited about. John Rom's caddy. He will be on the podcast very shortly. So let's kick it to Adam Hayes. If you guys have anything else. Oh, one last thing. I had a list of things I want to talk about. we hit pretty much all of them. Two things I want to hit quickly. Justine Reed, I don't know if you guys saw all the used golf fact stuff.

No. You didn't see it. No, I didn't see it either. All right. I'll try and do this quickly. So one of the no laying up guys, Tron tweeted a picture of Patrick Reed at like a rugby event.

It's Collingwood. Rugby or AFL. Oh, they're in Australia. They're playing in Australia this week. That's what it is. And they tweeted a picture, um,

have to wonder like it's him and it's Patrick Reed in the stands and right they tweeted have to wonder if used golf facts didn't attend due to quality of the seats provided and then use golf facts tweeted a picture next to all of them being like these uh seats look pretty nice to me from the use golf facts account so I mean first is that the first reveal that we've had wow sort of I mean everyone is known for the longest time that it's justine read but this is heavy heavy confirmation that it's her that is crazy it's unbelievable I mean in the past she had tweeted when Rory had the rules violation on on 18 at the farmers when Patrick Reed was getting in trouble, I think it was. She tweeted from the used golf account and then tweeted from the Patrick Reed account.

So it's been Justine Reed forever. But now we pretty much have 100% confirmation that it's hurt. What a lunatic. What an absolute lunatic. That's that's incredible. The fact that she just doesn't care anymore. If you now like in her mind, doesn't she realize that people can just go back and just confirm that all the insane things that have been coming from that account?

town has just been justine reid that's crazy i think there's i think there's been like official denials from oh yeah from patrick or from justine being like this is not me and i i'm sure that you know he's involved in lawsuits on lawsuits on lawsuits oh yeah i'm sure that this is relevant to that so for her to just pull the mask off is unhinged that's unhinged behavior so that was that was one of the things and i i love it it's what it's one thing that other sports really don't have they don't have someone's wife on a burner account that everyone knows that it's her that's great and then I just want to quickly say that Zurich Classic merch. We're going to be down there.

That's great. We're going to have merchandise in the tent at the event. So if you're going to be going to the Zurich Classic, come on out. We'll be around. Barstall Sportsbook is the official sponsor of that event. And we also have merch in the tent, some cool designs, polos, hoodies, things that we've had before at other events are now at the Zurich Classic. So come out buy some merch and say what up.

And look for our tent at the Zurich Classic. Aside from the merch tent, we're going to have the Barstles Sportsbook area. It's like an activation zone. and I think with Ben Mintz is going to be there. I'm sure Megan Making Money will be down there. I don't know for sure, but I know she was there last year. And we're going to have a full swing simulator in there. And it's just a really cool place to be able to sign up for the Barso's sports book,

you know, meet everybody that's working on it. Meet all the guys that are going to be down there. And it should be a really fun week. I'm going in and out. I got the Islanders playoffs tonight. So if you got listening to this, I'm either the happiest person in the world after game one or the saddest person in the world. We have like a thousand people coming to Borrellis tonight on Monday night when we're recording this.

I'm very excited, very, very nervous. But yeah, it's just, so I'm going to be flying in Tuesday. We're going to be there Wednesday, Thursday, and then I'm flying out because I got the Islander game on Friday at UBS. But so I'll be watching an Islander game in New Orleans on Wednesday, which is not going to be fun for anyone in that city. What are the opening odds on that series? Like, who's the favorite?

Islanders are like plus 155. Okay. Oh, that's not bad. The games are like minus 190 right now, I think, live to win the series. Yeah. I mean, the hurricane's finished with like 10 more wins, but they also finished the season 9, 8, and 1. One of their best players,

Svetnikov got hurt for the rest of the season. They don't have like a number one goalie. They have two really solid goalies, Freddie Anderson and Ranta. The Islanders have just like things going. And what's crazy is tonight is their best lineup they've had all year. Like everyone's kind of healthy. Is Barzell back?

Barzell's back for game one. I saw him after game 82 and he came down and looked at me and goes, I'm back. He gave me the Jordan. I'm back. And like no one had known at that point. point and I was like no way like I thought he wasn't even going to be back for like the whole playoffs and he looked at me with like a smirk he goes on back I'm like no way and he's fucking

back he's been practicing he's playing tonight I'm super excited and you guys dodged the bruins that you basically already won a playoff series yeah from the last podcast that you guys heard me on I said there was like a 10% chance that not only the island is make it but they avoid the bruin and I thought it was just going to be I was calling it like um I was basically going to be like Jesus walking the cross around, like, and he was about to get, like, crucified. Like, that was going to be my week in Boston, like, kind of just, like, walking with, like, like, like, throwing things at me and like, like, like, like they're shitting on me. And then, like, I end up just getting, like, murdered and like, they're all watching me.

And like, my mom's crying at my feet. Like, that's what I was picturing happening in Boston and just because I got the last laugh over that. I'm looking at a picture in my own office of me just telling the whole city of Boston to suck my dick because I got to do that two years ago. And then I would just, I would just get all that reversed. And I didn't want that. They're historically.

Historically the best team ever. Ever. Did they break the record? Yes. In all facets. In every single way. Points wins the whole deal. So, um, yeah.

I'm running. I'm rooting for the aisles. And everyone who listens to this show should be rooting for the aisles because it's so interesting and entertaining when Frankie Borelli is in the playoffs. It's the best. I can't wait for tonight. Stu Feiners in the building. We're going to be going fucking nuts.

No one anyone listen to this. It already happens. So I can't really plug the screen. What's the process like for getting into Borrellys on a night like tonight? Do you need a no guy? Is it like a, you pay a flat fee for drinks and food? Yeah, it's like 25 bucks and it comes with like pasta, pizza, salad and like and then it's like $5 beer.

So it's like my dad kind of just like takes, he wants everyone to just be able to sit and eat and not have to deal with like ordering. So it's kind of just like it's like a, it's like a cafeteria almost where it's just like we get as many people as we can and we throw a bunch of food on every single table. And it's just. like let's just fucking go like let's we have TVs all over the place we've got surrounds sound like I have these huge speakers so that you can hear the game and then we have a little stream that that they'll be kicking to from so they're all watching it in the office all spit

and chick that's they're watching in the office and they're going to be basically when a goal happens they're going to go live to borellis and you're just going to see beers fucking going everywhere and that's yeah um hopefully there's be hopefully they hopefully there's goals yeah i guess i'll finish it i played with whitney yesterday i played with ryan and Whitney. I know a lot of people that listen to this like to listen to spit and chicklets and they know that he's a big golfer, the sandbaggers, one of their best pieces of content that they do. I was, I've played with Whitney a bunch of times. I was nervous going into this one. I brought him to our home track, Colonial. Um, he loved it. He was,

he was blown away by Pines. Like, we only played nine holes. He couldn't believe how, dude, it's a really, it's a 144 rating. It's a 74.5. Dude, it's a really hard golf course. And it's like, not easy off the T visually. Everything's dead left. You have to basically land these drives in like a 20 yard left to right window. And I was playing really golf going in. I played with you, Trent. We played at Rockville and I shot at 75.

And I was like just shot for shot, just fucking playing really good. I played with Hank the next day played really well. Henry Lockwood of the part of my take podcast and his buddy Matt who puts like this sideways with his chest to the fuck like a hockey stick. Side saddle. He never said. Side saddle. It was insane.

Missed every single putty took. It was insane. And then I play with Whitney. I'm like, man, I played really well two days going into this. And now I'm playing with Ryan Whitney, who I care about playing well in front of. It's one of those rounds where it's like I don't want to get made fun of. I want to impress him. I'm taking him to the golf course.

And he's really good. He's a fucking like 1.2 right now or whatever. And, dude, we went shot for shot for nine holes. I'm talking. We were all square after nine. I got, he gave me two pops on the front nine, but I didn't. I only needed it at one. The other time I had just made a four for three and he ended making a five.

So I didn't even need it. And I just, we just would hit drives right next to each other. And then he would hit a, he would stick one next to the like from 140. You would stick one right to the pin. And then I would just stick one right next to the pin. And we were just having a fucking match man. Like looking at each other laughing. Like this is crazy.

Like it felt like Fitsy and Speed. Like it was like every shot was like we can do no wrong right now. You know what I mean? I'm going to make a bold prediction about your game, Frankie. I think your index reaches the twos this year. Oh my God. That's another level. You are playing so well.

I mean, if you're shooting in the mid-70s, you're like 95% of the way there. I'd have to put my dick off because that, yeah, I think if I can keep my putting to like, for sure to putt every single hole and I can start making some of these birdie putts because I don't make birdie putts. I just don't make them. If you putt it for one hour per day for a month and, And because you live, how close do you live to Colonial? Yeah, we're like seven minutes, eight minutes.

Yeah, if you, 30 minutes, if you just made it part of your routine, I think your game, I think you're, your, your ball striking is like, you know, it's, it's almost scratch level. So you just got it, you just got to really sharpen up the around the greens. Dude, when we played, you shot 75 and you doubled the first. I know. It's crazy. I had two doubles. Sick.

I shot 75. Two doubles. Yeah, you're, you're playing real golf. You know, you said you went shot for shot with a one handicap. Yeah. And Whitney's a really good player. He's got that fucking, like, when I caddied it, all these guys had these, like, country club ball flights where, like, and I don't know if it's just when you're forecadding, but the way the ball kind of just like floats and just softly lands in the fairway, Whitney just has such a nice, comfortable, smooth swing that I pictured it like when I was cadding at the Garden City Men's Club, like, just seeing the ball kind of come to me. And it never had a chance of, like, hurting me.

It would just land like real soft and just like perfectly in the luscious fairway. He just never misses a shot, really, ever. No glove. No glove. Yeah, no, no glove at all. No, he's a righty. Murill's Matt Murley came out there and he's just a vibes guy. He just hit a couple shots each hole.

They got him rental clubs. He didn't need them. He's just like hitting shots for like whenever. He's very funny. Yeah, they're just a great group of guys. And yeah, that was just a big round for me to be able to like say that I didn't. Because I easily could have embarrassed myself and just dribbling it off the tea and skull fucking wedges. And I felt really good about that.

I was like pumped. I called my dad after. I'm like, I played really well with me. I was like going crazy. I was like really jacking up. We got to jump into this Adam Hayes interview that you guys are going to hear next. Adam Hayes is coming up next and here he is. Who's planning on doing some spring cleaning this year?

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slash for play. There's no safe like SimplySafe. All right, folks, we're joined right now by a very special guest. He's coming off an incredible stretch over the last, I guess it's been eight,

nine days, probably been a bit of a whirlwind. We got Adam Hayes, veteran caddy on the PGA tour, caddy for John Rom, just recently walked up the 72nd hole at Augusta National with the champ who had it locked up.

So my first question is just how, I guess, how much of a whirlwind has the last eight days been? Because I imagine it's been pretty wild. It has. First of all, thanks for having me. And yeah, that was incredible. The last, let's put this way, the first four days were a blur, for sure. I don't think either John nor my heads were kind of in the right place.

But as the week went on, got a little bit better. and I actually looking back on it now that I'm home, playing Hilton Head was probably, not only was it great for John to go do, but I think if we had went home, it probably, it would have obviously sunk in, but it wouldn't have been as to, you know,

being Hilton Head and the fans were incredible and, you know, received John very well. And it was cool to see that kind of, let's say, like the American fan base, really support John. So, man, it was, it was, it was actually cooler than I could have ever dreamed of going down there. I thought it was going to, could have been a little bit of a letdown week, but, you know, as a week went on, he played better and better.

And we, we had a good time down there. So, yeah, it was great. Yeah. Yeah, not, not all T15s are pretty beautiful. Yeah, I think he, I think he gets a little bit of credit for that T15 after that opening around 72. You know, you mentioned that walk up up to 72nd hole. I think I read that after, you know, John obviously hits his T shot. It hits the tree.

You hit a provisional. The first one's fine. It's just short of the fairway. He lays up. And then I think you said something to him, did you, over the ball? Like, give me a little pep talk about that last hole. Yeah. We were, first of all, I saw the ball come down, which is incredible because, you know, I never see the ball.

And he always sees it. He's like, oh, yeah, it's an inch off the fairway. Or, you know, he's like eagle eyes. And so for him to not see it was kind of surprising to me. And he still wanted to hit a provisional, so let him go, whatever. And so when we got down there, we were walking, and he was kind of wanting to, he was talking about hitting a three wood and just hitting it up in the crowd or doing whatever, you know, and I'm like, no, no, we're just going to hit an iron down there. And, you know, kind of hit it where the guys used to hit their drives. And then when we got down there to the wedge shot, I just said to him.

I said, hey, man, I said, let's get this thing up and down, like a real champion, you know? And then obviously the rest of his history hit a beautiful little wedge shot in there. And I will tell you, he'll say that he was trying to land at four or five steps past it on the slope and kind of let it just trickle back down. And he says that he caught a little off the heel. But I don't know. I'll give him credit for just hitting a good shot. Yeah. So we talk about, we're talking about the 72nd hole.

Let's talk about the first hole, four putt, double bogey. What is the conversation like between the two of you walking off that first green? And then, you know, just like what is it? What's going on between the two for that? Yeah. Well, John, as we all know, gets a little amped up pretty quick. So it was actually a good thing looking back on it. Obviously, it's easy to say now. But even soon after, you know, walking down the second hole, I felt like it was going to be, it was okay because his mind just seemed in the right place. We had talked earlier in the week about I had said to him just, I thought the key because of the weather and the golf course changing that the guy who was going to kind of be most, I use the word athletic and who was able to. adapt the best throughout the conditions for the week was probably going to turn out to be the champion.

And that was just kind of our word is to adapt. And when that happened, it was like a, you know, a boxer getting hit in the mouth, you know, right off the start and kind of woke them up a little bit, probably took some of the expectations off of them. And I just said to them walking to the second hole. I said, hey, man, you know, I said, we just got to adapt to that and just keep going. You know, let's step one step at a time, get one back at a time, and, you know, just see, see what happens. And we did.

You know, he went off and shot, you know, made, I guess, what was seven birdies in an eagle after that and seven under. And then the rest of the week was just certainly wasn't stress-free, but. Yeah, that's pretty good golf at that point. It helped. We had John on for the first time about two months ago, and, you know, we're pretty candid. So we're getting into it with them. And we've made a lot of jokes about him and his, and his,

uh, the back and forth, the anger, the frustration, some of the moments that you guys have had out there disagreeing, which is what we do and what I think most people that watch golf do. But he very interestingly to us was like, you know,

I actually learned to like I, I need like I play better when I get mad a lot. That's kind of how it works for me. So with you being out there with him like, is it, is it interesting for you to kind of try to manage that or channel that? Or do you try to like piss him off sometimes just so that he'll play, you know,

he'll channel that. He's pretty good at pissing himself off. So I tried not to. But there are times where, you know, I got to kind of, you know, rib him a little bit and get him, you know, get his kind of head into it, I guess. But he's such a competitor that, you know, as you guys, I'm sure know about him and learned in that interview you did with him. I mean, he is so competitive about everything he does.

So it doesn't take a whole lot for him to get in that competitive mindset. But the anger thing has, it's been like a, it's been cool to watch. it transformed because, you know, early on in his career and rightfully so, he took a lot of heat for it. And he maybe didn't let it out in the maybe the right way that people would want to see a guy get mad. And, you know, but he learned from that. I learned from that. And more importantly, he's learned how to do it in the right way that works for him. And so now, yeah, he gets mad and he, but you got to kind of let him go. I used to, and I was probably guilty. of it when I first started working for him just because it's what caddies are supposed to do.

They're supposed to calm their guy down a little bit. And I used to say, okay, you know, kind of calm down and he'd like, oh, you know, I don't want to calm down, you know. And, you know, kind of get even more. So we've learned to kind of, you let them go a little bit. And you say, okay, here we go. We're back into it now. We're, you know, we've let that. We've kind of deleted that and put it on the back burner or let it go, thrown in the trash, whatever you want to call it.

And now we are ready to go. still use that fire and that anger to keep driving you for the next however many holes or whatever you need to get done. So it's been very, I've been very proud of him seeing him learn how to control it in a way and use it as a positive for himself. It's been awesome to watch. Was it a, the, it take a lot for you to adapt to learn how to deal with that because I could see my personality. If someone was yelling at me all the time or yelling at himself, I'd take it personally. I'd be like, well, fuck you. I'd want to kind of be as equal. equally as mad at them, but you have to kind of adapt and learn, like, how do you manage this on

your end so that you're not taking it personally so that at the end of 18 holes, you guys still have a great relationship and you move on to the next day? Did that take a while or no? Not really. It does. So as a, you know, I'll call myself now a veteran caddy. I've been doing it for 23 years. But, you know, so you have these things. You're kind of a, legit. You're an old dog learning new tricks, right? When you work for a guy like John, but once I realized, the one great quality about a caddy should be. It should be like the number one job requirement is that thick skin and don't take anything personal. You know, I never have taken it personal when John says things to me. You know, he doesn't call me a, you know, he doesn't call me a motherfucker. He doesn't talk about

my family. He doesn't, you know, do things like that that I'm not saying some guys don't do. But John's been always been very accountable to himself. So it was easy for me to learn that, hey, this guy's not mad at me. You know, he's just pissed off the situation. and we're a team and we're going forward. So I've never taken a personal, number one. And number two, it's just been like, you know, letting him be his own person. And just, I mean, listen, John Aram was a great golf rink before I caddied for him, you know. And so not saying that I haven't maybe helped him in some areas, but this guy was going to be great pretty much no matter who caddied for him.

and so it's just you kind of just let them go and not let it get outside of like some parameters maybe we have set up yeah so i i you know you're caddying for the number one golfer in the world and i remember you know i caddied in one pj tour event for the most recent champion mat Fitzpatrick not to brag oh nice um and i asked i asked it was a 2020 Pebble Beach Pro. And I asked a caddy before. I can't remember who it was. I think I might have been John Wood, but I said, you know, what are some tips? And he said, well, the first tip of being a good caddy is getting a good player. So you're halfway there. You, um, tell me the story about you guys linking up because you had been working on tour, as you mentioned, 23 years. So you had a whole career before this. And it wasn't like Rom was this diamond in the rough. As you mentioned, he was a guy who, right when he turned pro, Phil Nicholson was telling anyone who would listen

that this guy's going to win majors. He's going to be the greatest best player. He's the number one amateur and you get the job. How did that come to be? And did you know what you had when that first started? Yes. I did actually because I remember staying on the, I worked for Russell Henley, great guy, worked for him for basically three years, middle of 2013 to the end of 16. And I had seen John at the waste management Phoenix Open and hitting balls like it was the year.

He finished fifth as an amateur. And I just remember watching them down the range. And I'm just thinking, I'm like, God, this guy is, he's got a funky action, but it's really good. And it's a simple golf swing. And then just the way he carried himself, I kind of saw him a couple times throughout the week, walking around. And I'm like, this guy's going to be a stud, you know, thinking of myself. And having been around the game, you kind of can, I guess, pick up on a few things that you see in guys and the way they carry themselves when they get in those situations as an amateur. And John kind of had that.

had the, what's called the swag, right? He wasn't scared. He's pumping the crowd up on, you know, 16 with the Pat Tillman jersey on him. And he was like, this guy was ready to go. And so that summer, obviously, Bones was still counting for Phil Nicholson at the time. John was going to be represented by the same management company at the time was Lagerd there. And Bones just reached out to me.

And listen, Bones is a good friend of mine. Known him for since I came out. He was always one of those veteran guys who had actually. talk to a young guy, which a lot of them wouldn't. And so I always had a ton of respect for him. And Bones kind of always, I felt like he was always looking out for me a little bit. You know, like there would always be some jobs coming up and he'd be like, you know, just kind of a slight little, hey, would you be interested or how are things going with the guy you're working for? Not trying to get me to jump ship, but just you never know. In the caddy business,

if there's an opportunity and things aren't maybe going great with your player, you could move on. And I was very happy working for Russ Henley. We won the Honda together and 14. And, you know, he was a good player. He took care of me, you know, went to his wedding. I viewed him kind of, you know, he was a friend. And so this John Rom job was coming available. And I'm sure there was a lot of guys' names are in the hat.

And Bones just said, hey, if you're interested, I could get you, probably get you at least your name in the hat. And I said, yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, there's certain jobs that come by. and certain players, they're like, I call them once in a lifetimes, you're right? And we all know who they are, the Jordan Spee, Justin Thomas, the Jason Days, the Tiger Woods, you know, Phil Mickelsons. They're like these generational guys who come by. And if you have a chance, why would I take the chance and say, yeah, throw my name in there?

So he did. And, you know, I wasn't going to leave. I made it very clear that I wasn't interested in leaving Russ in the middle of the year, right? He was having a nice year. He had a good chance to make him the tour championship that year. year and never want to be the guy that leaves at the, you know, you don't want to be the guy leaving at the wrong time or leaving a guy high and dry. So, right. When Russ didn't make the tour championship that year, a couple days later, I got a phone call from John's management team and

said, you know, John would like to talk to here or would you be interested? And so I jumped on a plane and flew out to Phoenix and went and met with him for a couple days. And at the time, his now wife, Kelly, was his girlfriend. And, you know, we met up there at Greyhawk. And, you know, we met up there, Greyhawk and, you know, kind of hung out and went and played nine holes and up at Whisper Rock and just kind of hung out for a few days, dinner, got to know each other. And he's like, all right, I think I've kind of seen all I need to see. You know, you can, so I think I actually changed my flight a day early and flew back to Charlotte. And man, when I got home, there was a text message on my phone, basically saying that John wanted to hire, you know, wanted to hire me.

And so then that's kind of how it all went down. So I owe it all the bones for the most part. and that's kind of how it went down. How did Russell take it? Russell was awesome. Russ was, you know, I think looking back on, I don't know, I mean, Russ and I haven't really talked about it, but we're still friends we talk about, you know, Russ has gotten into hunting, so I love to hunt.

So we've gotten in talking about hunting and doing different things, and we're still buddies. You know, I think at the time he was probably maybe a little bit, I wouldn't say pissed off. But yeah, anytime you get, it's probably a little hurtful, right? You know, and so he bounced straight back. Huh? It's a younger, hotter wife.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's going to show a lot of emotions. Yeah. You know, I did, I didn't want to, you know, and Russ has been great. He's won a couple times since. And so, you know, I've been very happy for him. And so I think he's happy for me also.

And, yeah, it's, it all worked out. Yeah. That is such an interesting dynamic. And I, like, like, Dan, say, I mean, there's no easy way to just go tell somebody like, hey, like, I'm having a great. time, but this other guy that's coming up is, I mean, this guy's unbelievable. It's hard to go tell us. It's not you.

It's me, right? Yeah, right, right, right. It's not you. It's the other guy who's going to win like a bunch of majors. So.