Fore Play - Nico Echavarria Takes You Inside The International Presidents Cup Team

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

We're joined by a very special friend of the program, Nico Echavarria, for an inside look at the International Team's preparation ahead of next week's Presidents Cup. Nico and Kiz also share their thoughts on the PGA Tour's new Championship Series and what it means for the future of the Tour.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners. You can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Chevy is called The Heartbeat of America for a reason. They got a little bit of something for everyone, and we have that on this show as well. It's largely the Nico Echavaria show. Hops on for over an hour. He's at the Biltmore playing this week, as well as Kevin Kisner, also playing this week.

So we talk a lot about the event, about changes on the PGA tour, not only two, what's coming up structure-wise, but just the general vibe and what it's like out there on the ground during practice rounds from maybe five, 10 years ago to now, talk President's Cup. We talk a lot of things. Nico kind of interviews us about our games as well, which we always love. So it's an awesome, I would say more of a conversation with Nico than an interview. That is pretty much the entire show. Before that, we do get into a little bit of the latest from Tiger Woods.

A couple updates in our world. All brought to you by Chevy and their incredible lineup of S.U. Yeah, we love Nico. He's great on the show. We get pretty in depth on the changes that are coming to the PJ tour. I think people will be interested in that. A couple varied opinions on this very show. Just people chopping it up about what that's going to be like, what it's going to look like. So I think people are going to like that. And yeah, Chevrolet, nobody does it better than them. An American car company. We travel all the time. We're in Chevys all the time. There's not a more dependable vehicle out there than a Chevrolet. the flexible equinox, the spacious, traverse, the tracks, all kinds of great options, and their SUV lineup, and each one of them is loaded with tech that keeps everything in sync from road trip music to long haul navigation. Check out the lineup at Chevy.com. Once again, go check out the entire lineup at Chevy.com. I've got a buddy who struggles with that shot. A lot of his name's Frankie Burrilli.

So the guys actually gave him a nickname of Butternives because he has. He always knives To the cross the green Brok a hundred Now you gotta break 90 We appreciate what you guys do for golf It's been really cool Thank you

You're making it cool We appreciate I was like hey Phil You only fucking 2999 And he grabs a hundred He's like yeah I won 90,000 of these yesterday He goes

Take 100 And go fuck yourself What? What are you guys What are you guys taking? It's ain't a hobby Four play Presented by Barstool Sports

We got a great show today We have pretty much the entire show with Nico Echavaria. He is a three-time winner on the PGA tour. Great friend of the program. I do not do an official intro, which will get to all of that, as Kiz knows, because I consider him just like I think Trent said, a fifth mic at this point. Our dear Frankie is on his way to the homeland, as he calls it.

He's on his way to Italy for a wedding. So no Frankie. Sub-in, Nico. President's Cup is next week. It's going to be his first ever President's Cup appearance for the international team. Kiz has, of course, been on that team. He's been very involved with that team from a playing standpoint to a leadership standpoint. He's going to be next week on the broadcasting front for the President's Cup.

So all kinds of connections of that event. And then this week, both Nico and kids are playing in the Biltmore, first event of the Fall FedEx Cup series. So a lot to talk about on that front. We kind of weave all that into the interview with Nico. He kind of interviews us, to be honest with you. He's one of those guys, because he's like a Sam Burns. He's like one of these fellows that joins a show and he kind of just knows how to podcast.

You know what I mean? Yeah. He knows how to do it. He got it. He's a great guest to have on. Ran into him in the parking lot at the Biltmore, leaving lunch. And I said, dude, Riggs keeps telling us you're coming on when you're coming on. He said, well, it doesn't really work when you give me 20 minutes like Riggs normally does.

Hey, can you be on in 20 minutes? I said, well, we're going at four. So I'll just send you the link. And he said, four works. And here we are. We got a full hour with him. He's great. All over the place.

asking me for advice, which is crazy. And then talking about, I thought he had a great perspective on his nerves at the President's Cup. I thought so, too. And I thought, like, you know, he made a really good point just about, like, you know, you were getting into it, kids, which I love your perspective of a guy that just like reenters into the PGA tour scene every now and then. And when you do, it is this unique perspective of a guy that, like, three years ago, you had this 10-year stretch where you were in the, there and then now you've been removed for a few years. You're not there week to week necessarily grinding is hard that like you get this funny

look at what the four is like now and you get to compare it to what it was like for most of your whole career. And then there's Nico who's 32. He's like in his prime out there. He won the cognizant this year on the PGA Tories on the President's Cup team. And I think he has a really good perspective too of being like, I know a lot of guys out here feel kind of miserable. Here's sort of my approach and kind of matching that up with your approach was just really

cool, I think. And it offers like such a look from this show that we never had before you were on the show. So just really good having Nico on and going through it. But, you know, he follows everything. When I texted him two weeks or so ago, congratulations on the President's Cup. His response was incredible playing in the latest hater. I thought you had him on 18. So like he pays attention to everything that we do, which is awesome. And he's just a really good dude. So him being on the show is like I said, we kind of went through the new PG tour now. We kind of just went through the outline that I had for the show without. Nico with Nico. So he went through all the latest news,

President's Cup, this week on tour. We talked for like 20 minutes about the new structure from the PJ tour and how that's going to affect people and sponsors and what we all think about it. So that's coming up. That's pretty much the whole show before we get to that. A couple logistical things. Our fall drop.

I'm wearing one of these items right now, which is an awesome. Adidas hoodie. This is a maroon fall hoodie. I got the hat on. Our fall drop for Barstville Golf merchandise. some of it's our white label, some of its collaboration with Adidas Golf is going to be coming out today

when you're listening to this. September 17th, 2026, store. At barcelports.com, there's a golf collection on there. There's a for-play collection on there. Go check it out. We work really hard with our merchandise team. They're best in the business

to really hone in on a bunch of high-quality products that we really, really, really like, that we want to drop for the fall. The fall is probably, I think we all agree. the best season for golf apparel by far. The best, you know, you get browns out there. You get different colors. You got layering season.

You can wear a hoodie and pants the whole round. It's just the best. So our new merch trend out now, we're excited about it. Yeah, it's really good. I mean, this stuff, our merch team crushes it. And it is, if you're looking to buy golf stuff, fall is the time to do it because there are layers. It's just, it's a better look. I love it.

It's starting to become, I feel like it might be like a false fall. I don't even know if that exists. But when we were up at Woodlock for the Breaking 85, that was just went live yesterday. So go check that out if you haven't. It was we did a photo shoot for the fall stuff. It's becoming fall weather. It's my favorite time of year for sure,

certainly as a golfer. So go check that stuff out. There's something in there for everybody. This stuff is really, really good. How good is hoody season, dude? I mean, is it so nice to walk outside and say I need a hoodie?

I mean, hoodie season's the best. It just, it just fits. certainly a guy like me, my body type. I run. I just, the way that my body is, wants to wear a hoodie all the time. You run? No, I don't run. I meant the way that my body runs.

I don't run. I think if I, when was the last time that I ran? It's a good clarification. We need to put that on a video. Me and you will go for a light jog and we'll just see how it goes, mic up. We got to include Paige Sparantic in that video, by the way. She owes us a run. her and I were going to have a sprint and people were upset that they got robbed of that.

She owes me some money too. So we'll just make her do it all encompassing. You ran against Chaz. I did run. Chaz and I had a sprint off in the video that we did. But that was, I mean, we ran 40 yards. Like if I had to just like jog down the street, that'd be a tough scene for me. I would be out of breath.

I always just tell people and I don't even know if it's true, but I think it probably is. So I go with it. I have a larger box. body type. So I just say my knees can't take it. I can't. I'm more of an elliptical walk on the treadmill. If I run, these knees are going to be shot boys. Did you beat Chaz? I did beat Chas. Yep, I did. Yeah. Let's go. He looks like a quick little fucker. I, you know, in my heyday, which was now 20 years ago when I played high school sports, I was on the track team and I would run 200 meter dashes and I was pretty fast. Now again, those days, we got 20, 20 years of not that. So it's different. But I had a little

bit of speed back in the day. Yeah, I, you know, I've seen your highlight tape from high school football, Trent. And Trent, it's closing speed is something to behold out there. That's so long ago. It's, dude, it's, I like, I can't even believe how long ago it was. I think about that sometimes. My 40th birthday, it's not around the corner, but it's, it's there. It's Oh, it's creeping. It's creeping up on me. And I know, like, that's crazy. Yeah.

Mine is around the corner as it gets. We're looking at January 30th, boys and girls. That's just, that's coming fast, really fast. Pretty wild. Is that close to the WM open? It's the week before. I was thinking I'd fly out for it if it was WM open. I know.

Maybe I'll fly out anyway. Who cares? I love that idea. How about last year? It was the Friday before Phoenix Open week, and it was my first year as a Thunderbird for the Open. So we legit Friday. Oh, it was as long of a stretch as you could possibly imagine. It was Friday before Saturdays of the concert in the Coliseum, which was the Killers, which was incredible.

Sunday is like the official kickoff for us where we like move into the hotel next to the course. We do like a dinner to kind of get the week going. And then it's just Monday through Sunday. So yeah, it was a bit of a stretch. It was a bit of a stretch. Anyways, long way of saying, go check out the new merchandise. It's hoodie season.

We all look better on hoodies. We all love rolling out the crisp air in the morning in the evening. You get to layer up and we got you ready with all kinds of polos. We got shirts, hats, layering pieces like hoodies. So check it out. Store. at Parcialsports.com. New Breaking 85 from Woodlock.

Woodlock's one of your guys' favorite places. I still haven't been there yet. Seems like a very peaceful place. Put you in a good state of mind. and you and Frankie were out there, just having a jolly old time trying to shoot that career PR. Yeah, Woodlock is a very serene place. We talked about it a couple episodes ago, but it's just, yeah, it's up in the woods. It's relaxing.

It's very green. They've got a great golf course out there. They got a great spa there. They got a great restaurant there. Yeah, me and Frankie back at Breaking 85. The last two episodes before this, as people know, was me and Kevin Kisner, which we had a ball. Unfortunately, we weren't able to accomplish. a goal that we wanted to accomplish.

So we went back out there with Frankie. And yeah, go watch it. We had a really, uh, we had a really fun time out there. It's always fun getting back to Frankie. Oh yeah. It's a great. And I got to see. Yeah, I got to find out if he's a better catty than me.

So I can't wait to watch. You guys, you guys are involved in the video too. You and I say you guys because I mean you and George, you and your five year old son George make an appearance in the breaking 85 and it's a great moment. Oh, that's right. When he thought, uh, you were playing with Scotty Sheffler. that's right that's right well he was off on that

he was off a little bit but he was only by what how many millions is Scottie made on the course 100 and 21st the most something seven just many millions off our whole and one of it in Chicago next Wednesday night

make sure you go check out that there's a couple select spots still available they are insanely fun everybody that shows up is like holy shit this is cool and I thought it was going to be from the gifting to the food, the beverage, the rush of being up there for 60 seconds, trying to get our first hole in one win, $10,000. It's all there and available.

We're all going to be there. We're all going to be having fun. We're doing a little live show right before as well that you can catch a piece of. So all of it, make sure you go check it out. It's going to be a really fun week in Chicago, and that's going to be sort of the big event for us. So a whole in one event, go get your tickets. Check out that link, which are all over our socials.

All right, before we throw it to Nico, just a couple things. had on my list. Tiger Woods, everyone, all right, Mr. Tiger Woods out at Liberty National. I like that we're all so programmed now to the scheduling that I saw like a week ago. I think I saw like nuclear golf and like TW spot being like, keep your eyes peel because in the next week or so is usually when Tiger Woods event at Liberty National is and he usually hits some kind of shot on the driving range and voila. Yesterday morning, I woke up here in Arizona, three hours behind everybody and there Tiger Woods was miced up in the clinic,

hitting a couple balls on the range. He had a couple quotes that I absolutely loved. Ryan Richen, I sent this video to you. So if you don't mind pulling this up, we're going to look at Tigray, hitting balls at Liberty National just yesterday. What a 15-time major. World Golf Hall of Famer,

founder of TGR Foundation, and our host, Tiger Woods. How about a hand for this morning? Okay, Tiger, I'm going to start with you because you're closest to me. we're watching you hit some balls. How does it feel? And like, how many balls are you hitting?

Where are you in your kind of process? I can hit pretty much anything. I can hit pretty much anything. I'm a little stiff today. Obviously, last night. We're all having fun hanging out. I love that. He said I can hit anything with like his just awkward enough way that he delivers anything

that he ever says where people were kind of like not. And he had to say it again a little bit more into the mic. And then he had his little comment where he said, a little stiff today, obviously from last night, we were having a little fun hanging out. So Tiger, you know, kind of on the sauce, having a couple drinks with his little crew. All on all, you know, we haven't really seen much Tiger Woods.

Of course, since the whole incident, the whole accident, the suspicion of DUI, and then going over to Switzerland for whatever he did over there for a few months. We just haven't really seen much of Tiger Woods. You released a couple statements around competition committee on the tour. and little things here and there. He's posted some random tweets, which every time he does,

I get a notification. I panic that it's going to be a blue background tweet, but it hasn't been so far. Just haven't really seen much of them. Comes out, makes a couple nice swings, has a couple nice comments. All at all,

I think he looks about as good as you can ask for at this point. Yeah, I agree. I thought he was moving well. I don't, you know, people are going to take that I can pretty much hit all of them out of context.

Like he's being some cocky ass about how he can hit every shot in a bag, but I think he'd meant more of it. Yeah, I knew that. That's why I was going to straightened that up. I took it as he can hit every club in the bag.

He has no problem going, you know, all the way through the bag, hitting drivers and everything. He was, he was gearing up to get ready to play. I mean, he played the last TGL match, you know, got an accident or a, what do we even call that, an accident or a DUI stop?

I guess he did get in a wreck first, yeah. A little bit of both, I think it was kind of a little bit of both. Flip his car and, you know, he was under the influence, I think. Gone to Switzerland for 30 days or 45 days. So I'm sure he's back full grind mode. I have no idea what future he's trying to play towards.

I'm sure he wants to play Augusta next spring if he can get ready to go. And love to see him pop out and play a champion's tour event. I know they only have a few left, but it was sure would be cool to see him go back and play and just get some competition and see what his reps look like. Oh, it would be the best, man. It would be the absolute best. I know the PNC, which he always loved playing with Charlie. It's not until December.

That's a couple of weeks before Christmas. So if we could just get the normal run here, not even the normal. If we could get, you know, like you said, a Champions Tour appearance. Even in the spring, if we got one, I don't know how, you know, I saw like he could, in terms of being eligible, well, that next year is 2027, so it's not quite there yet. But 2008, in terms of being eligible for PJ Tour events for that, there's like an exemption that he could like unlock, but it's only a one-year thing that's medical. So I don't know how it's going to work.

him having status going forward with certain levels of tour events where you have to basically earn points or a certain world ranking to be there. I would love to see him play. I think he looks pretty good. I'm pretty sure if it weren't for the accident and the car flipping that he was going to play the Masters. It sounds like he was gearing damn, damn well, gear it up for the Masters in April last year or this year, and that didn't pan out.

So who the hell knows? It's all speculation at this point. You know, he might do the hero. and then the PNC and then maybe play a couple of champions tour events next year and a couple majors. I think that would be awesome because we haven't really seen him play much at all. But I thought he looked pretty damn good, fellas. Yeah, I thought he looked good. I just want to see him play.

That's the next thing I'm waiting for. That's it. Like all, you know, I was excited to see him take a few swings. I thought he looked, yeah, pretty damn good like you're saying. But if the next time he plays, that's going to be awesome. And I'm really, really just waiting for that. That's it. Yeah.

Same. Same. Let's just get a round of golf on camera. If it's on the Ford Play Golf channel, that's fine too. I would count that. That would definitely be something I like to see. But overall, happy to see Tiger. Seems like he's doing well. He's laughing.

He's making pretty friendly comments out there about having a good time last night. He's posing for pictures with the champions of his event. He's hitting shots on the range doing the clinic. So all good things, I think, in the Tiger world, seems happy, healthy, moving. That's kind of the main thing. And then if we could go one step further and see him play a little golf some point, in the next six months. I think that would be awesome.

So, all right. I think we're all set now. I think that's a wrap until, well, now we can welcome Nico. I don't know if anybody else has anything, anything? I just want to give a shout out to Sabonik. And I want to give a shout out to all of the Barstow Classic participants across the whole year. Because we just finished up our last two qualifiers out at Sabonic Golf Club, which. So I didn't go to the one last year, but I was at.

at the two-day event this year. And we played there six months ago with Kevin Kisner. That place is just tip-top, man. The facilities, the golf course itself, the views. We got perfect weather out there. Everybody had an absolute ball. The party between nights. We did the putting contest up in the bar area.

People were going crazy. I just, yesterday I was just standing on the 10th T, looking out upon that golf course. And it's just one of the greatest places on planet Earth. So I just, I had to give a shout out to them. you know, that's Frankie Borelli's backyard. He loves that place. He can't be here. So I figured I would give him a shout out. Jarlal was there.

Mr. Borelli was there. His father-in-law was there. So it was just a whole cast of character. Wally Zurbiac was there. Calcutterbuck was there. Just a cast of characters coming through the Barso Classic out at Sabonik. But overall, just a big shout out to the Barso Classic. Our team, the participants, all the golf courses.

It was just another great year and finishing it off at Sabonik. I know we got the championship coming up at, at Greyhawk in a couple months. But for the qualifiers, it was just an awesome year, man. Every year that thing gets better and better, and I just had an absolute ball. That place is special.

Sabotic is really, really special. We stayed on property there in May or April, is that? Yeah. When we were there, it was like maybe early May, and they had just opened up. Things hadn't even really grown in yet.

And to see it out there, I mean, that party with the sunsetsing over the sound, the weather that was had out there, see and Jard Ruhul and all of it. What a venue for the Barstool Classic. Troy and the whole squad at Sabotic making that happen is kind of a minor miracle for a place of like that caliber to be hosting the Barcelona Classic. I think it sells out first and the fastest of all the stops and it does so for a reason

because it is just as elite of a place as it possibly gets. And yeah, it looked like everybody had a blast. We had a hole in one, I believe, on the, what is that? the fourth hole, Trent? I think that is the fourth hole, yeah. It was the Adidas closest to the pinhole. I think I know who won. He won.

Stephen. That's a zero feet, zero inches. Oh, what was his name? I thought I had it. I had it and then I didn't have it. But yeah, that was a great moment. People were going crazy. Just, yeah, great couple of days out there.

Amazing, amazing. Big shot to Sabotic hosting. And yeah, like you mentioned, everybody that plays in the Barstool Classic, It's over a couple thousand people a year end up playing in the Barstool Classic, which is phenomenal. And we've got a couple hundred people, a little over 200 people that advanced to the championship at Greyhawk coming up in November for two days. And we'll get our eighth Barstool Classic champions.

We never had any repeats. I think we'll have a couple chances this year to get some two-time winners. But Barstool Classic continues to deliver. People bring a lot of the energy. Our team does such a good job of setting everything up. making it, you know, everybody that plays is like, this feels like I'm playing in a PGA tour event, a professional event with how like nice,

the entire, the infrastructure, the build out, the signage, the activations on holes. It's just, it's just turned into something that like is beyond our wildest dreams. And it fills up,

it sells out. And Sabonik is kind of about as good as it gets when it comes to any Barstool Classic stop. So yeah, great, great spot. Big thanks to them for having the Barstool Classic. And next up is the championship.

And then we'll roll into running. to run it again next year. So, all right. Nico, great chat with Nico. He's an awesome guest. It always has been. He'll be front and center next week on the international team

at the President's Cup. So enjoy this chat with three-time winner on the PGA tour. Mr. Nico Echavaria. Did I ever tell you guys how I started listening to Foreplay? I don't think so.

No. So my wife, girlfriend at the time, she was playing at LSU and she would grind for hours. And she tells me one day like, hey, I listened to a golf pack podcast

that they had no idea about golf. They were talking about random things and I absolutely love it. Like, I'll give it a try. It's like spot on. Frankie talking about his measurement dilemmas. I think that was my first episode.

Are you guys saying like, Jordan Spiff That's how I started That's such a great way to get into this podcast Because it's 100% true We got credibility like nine months ago when Kiz joined And that It's already 10

It's already waning Boy I could Like out of context The Jordan Speth thing I could see you listening and being like What the fuck? How is this a golf podcast? what's wrong with these guys? Wasn't that because wasn't there like an audio book where the,

the reader of the audio book said spay? And we, we talked about it one time on the podcast and then continued to say his name like that for the entirety of the show and never gave context. So if you are listening, if you were listening for the first time, you got to be like, these guys don't even know how to say Jordan Speef snake. That's exactly what happened. It was the, I want to say it was the Tiger Woods book by Armic Cetian. Yeah. And there was like an audio version of it. And I would listen to the audio book. And I think they ended up cleaning it up. But like when I first listened to it, every time they mentioned speed, they just said Jordan Speth.

And we brought that up on the show. It became like an inside joke. So if you were listening, you'd be like, I don't think we ever said Speed after that. I think we just said Speth for 10 years straight or whatever the hell. All right. I want to talk a little president's cup, you know? I mean, this is, you're in the international house. Hold on.

You don't have an intro for our friend Nico? That's rude. I know. Of course I have an intro. Put you on the spot here, Riggs. No, we've done a couple of these with like the cold open where you just kind of go in. Oh, okay. No, I didn't even throw us off there.

No, we're not throwing us off. We did it with Jackson Coyvin, which I had a whole intro plan, and then his internet was like the worst internet in history, and he didn't really know how to do a podcast. And then what did we have on recently? There's another one where I went like over for. No, Torrico was a 30 minute intro. Never was going to end.

that was yeah and then he kind of shit on me for doing the intro so then i got a little bit scared he's like he spent the whole intro like shitting on me kind of it's also we've had nico on like seven times i think so it's a little different yeah he's like a fifth mic at this point yeah so i the first thing the first thing i told trend's like trent i'm moving down south to south florida i want to play with he's like yeah i don't live there anymore it's like oh sweet that's right I was there for a cup of coffee and then I got the hell out of there. It was about a cup of coffee.

Before you go on President's Cup, I've got to ask Nico a question about this current week since we're at the Biltmore. So, Nico, I don't play on tour very much anymore, but I have never seen the amount of people at a golf tournament nowadays, instructors and nutritionists and stretch people and devices. and fucking tease on the putting green

and stick sticking out of the ground and towels on everywhere. Like, when did golf become so hard on the PGA tour for guys to practice? You think it's going to get more simple, the better you get? Like, I can see, like, someone that sucks at golf there's, like, having all types of devices and stuff,

but we're going in the wrong direction, man. It is getting way too complicated out there. I mean, I got guys with trackman and quads on either angle, and I've got, you know, three coaches stand behind the caddy, and every hole I try to put to on the putting green surrounded by T's and mirrors and some line device, and I can't even practice. I just left today. I was like, I'm done.

There's nowhere to hit balls, and there's no holes open, and my back hurts, I'm just leaving. Did you get crunchy and started, like, did you get in a bad mood? No, I didn't really get crunchy. I just really took a moment to take a good long look around. And I'd just run into you and you said you were going to come on. So I was like, man, that's a good question for Nico. He plays a lot more than I do now.

And it's just, is this the new way to play golf? Every kid's 6, 3 and 220 and they have 8,000 devices. Two things. First, I don't get the trackman and the quad at the same time. Are you trying to read like if someone. if one measures the wrong thing like you get the other, which it's getting too perfectionist in my opinion. And two, the putting green situation is horrific.

Some putting greens are small and there's no holes. And it's like share. And the worst part is people doing like practice drills or competition drills and they put teas around it and you have the hole completely blocked. Yes, that's what I noticed today. I almost started stepping on them and just burying them into the green, but then I thought some poor superintendent is going to have to come out here and dig all these up tonight.

I was fascinated. I mean, every hole has lines, tease, mirrors some contraption around it. And it's pretty big putting green. There was not one hole without something around it. I just walked around.

I said, where can a guy just hit an eight foot put with no shit on the green? Is that at any point become a courtesy thing where you're allowed to say to someone, hey, you can't block off the hole with a wall of teas and contraptions? You just used to see, back in the day, I remember people were gambling in the putting green and putting against each other and moving from hole to hole. It is impossible now. You can't do that.

There's no chance. No chance. It's incredible. You'd have to have a green 200 by 200 for us to have an open hole. That'd be the size of a croquet court for me to find an eight-footer with no devices or teas around it. My issue is that if people start doing this, you start doing the same thing because if not you won't practice putting. Right. It's like you got to block your hole.

This is going to be Nico's hole. Yeah, basically. It sucks. I mean, it's terrible. We're definitely going in the wrong direction. Do you think it's, and also the amount of people people have? Like, I never even had a PT until five years into my career. And now every 22-year-old's laying on tables getting treatment and stuff.

I think it's a product of how much money we play for now. Not that it's a bad thing, but there's more money in guys' hands. And they're trying to figure out ways to improve because, you know, I was staying in like, you know, the shittiest hotel and flying the cheapest flight when I first got on tour. And now it feels like everybody's got excess money to spend. Yeah. And I love the lady I work with.

But it's getting to a point where, yeah, we maybe make too much money. and if one person's doing it, why am I not doing it kind of thing? Yeah. I'm just curious your thoughts on it. It just seemed this week above, I played Colonial. This is only two I've played this year. But it was crazy this week. I guess because at Colonial you can kind of spread out

between multiple greens and ranges. But here it's all confined. And buddy, it was eye-opening to me. You know which one's really bad? For example, this week, then no one knows the golf course. how long people take. And then majors, it is ridiculous. Majors outrageous.

That's what we get to see. And I mean, we're always trying to schedule stuff with you guys around majors, right? Like we're kind of like, we feel embarrassed, but we're around and we flew all the way out there. So we're like, can we get a video or can we get a podcast interview?

So we're trying to schedule stuff. And it's like, I'll be texting with, let's say it's Nico, you know? It'd be like, oh, yeah, I'm going off at 9 a.m. And you're like, I'm just doing nine holes. And it'll be like 12.30. p.m. and you'll be like, we're on

whole 7. And you're just like, this sucks out here. I don't know how you guys do it. There's a good story. I think it was Cabrera. Did you ever play with Cabrera kids? Yeah. What a beauty. Oh my God. One of a kind.

They don't make them like that anymore. No. I think it was the year he won at Oakmont. He got there maybe Tuesday or Monday afternoon, played Tuesday, started playing on the third hole it's like screw this I'm out of here

just taking too long played three holes then the next day I think he did the same thing or walked the rest of the course something like that and end up winning beautiful that's what I'm talking about man it's like they're overrated practice rounds yeah if you got it you got it that day if not

it's going to be a challenge no matter what I think that's more of a caddy situation but we just take two long prey of playing. There should be a shot clock behind the, like one of the towers. Like, hey, you have this amount of time to finish the hole. If not someone can hit. I always ask guys, how many times have you practiced a chip or a put in a practice round? And then it paid off to help you in the tournament. I can't ever recall one in my 402 starts. I started doing, I don't know who I heard it from. Maybe my coach told me,

don't practice the situation that you're dead. Tiger used to be efficient of probably where he's going to hit and hit one or two from there. And sometimes we obviously try to overdue the preparation. And at the end of the day, on Sunday, you're just so tired. Yeah. Yeah. That would be to me, I think like a lot of people that play amateur golf weekend golf, they go and play in some sort of a buddy's trip or a weekend.

that's a member guest where it's like three straight days of golf and everybody's reaction is like, I'm mentally exhausted by halfway through day two or whatever it might be and we're playing a laughable stakes and a laughable event. Like tour guys, not only is it four days straight, but man, you guys are out there. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you're trying to get through long practice rounds. You came and find a hold of a pot at. I don't know how the hell you guys keep your concentration up for that long. That's why we hire two sports psychologists kids.

that's right one for the daily life and one for golf yeah I think I think the new scheduling thing is gonna be good it's like

you're gonna be able like to plan stuff like you're not playing you are playing for something but at least like you'll have okay I'm for sure taking this week off I'm for sure taking a break from here because right now it seems like

okay if I play good I'm gonna get into this or if I play good I'll get into this event And I think it's got to be more clarity of having like a true schedule of how it's going to be. Yeah, they just released this week sort of the what it looks like the criteria for all of it. There's kind of a lot to go through. But you, Nico, is a guy that's, you know, like you're kind of in the prime of your career. What do you think about sort of the difference? You know, what do you think about how it's going to break down, the two-tier system,

corn fairy tour getting kind of relegated to like a third rung how do you feel about it all oh i might get in trouble with this but um at least i'm not i'm i don't consider myself a smart person so i'm glad i'm not making any of the decisions right now but i recently had a conversation with i'm not going to mention a name but he's the main sponsor of a really big event and i finally like heard the other side and I think what they're doing is really good and what Brian Wright wants is really good, but maybe it's a little too aggressive where contracts have been signed for X amount and all of a sudden like things change and hey, you got to pay us more money. It's, I don't know, it's it gave me like a perspective of the other side that I don't see and it was interesting

to talk to him. It's like, hey, we've been doing this tournament for this many years. We've grown this much. The charity has incremented this amount. And all of a sudden, they want to have a meeting because everything's changing. It's like, man, this is, I'm glad I'm also not making any decisions on the other side. Yeah, I've heard similar, you know, I'll go unnamed, unnamed event. It could be anything. But I've heard very similar reports of two, 3X sort of like request slash demand from the tour to sponsors

that you know have signed X amount of deals been there for a long time you know I think it's incredibly frustrating to people on the other end but also look like if you're going to come in as Brian Rollop and you're going to try to you know be this guy and that spearheads

a whole new era of the PGA tour you know in aggressiveness coming from the NFL or it's the NFL's king like I also get it on that front where it's like we're doing something new we're reshaping the entire future of what this is going to look like and we think that you know the championship series is going to be this top tier best players um you know that it's going to get them together 15 times year outside of the majors and a couple of the team events like those are going to be premium events uh you'd be crazy not to market it that way so i i kind of understand it on both sides

and none of that has really come out. These are just rumors and hearsay. But from what I'm hearing behind the scenes, it is, you know, it's pretty aggressive back and forth negotiation with pretty aggressive kind of demands and requests from the tour. It'll be very interesting to see how all that shakes down

because the tour is at the tour without its big, big sponsors that have been behind events for dozens of years. Yeah. I just feel like everything's trending to fast-paced in life and oh, this doesn't work, let's move to the other thing because there's more options.

I don't know. I don't support that. I think if the tour has been doing good with a company and there's good relationship with them, there should be a middle ground. Like, hey, let's slow the process, maybe finish the contract, and we'll work from there.

But, I mean, it's golf. It's not the NFL and it's never going to be the NFL. So I don't know. Sometimes it's almost better to be on the good side of these companies. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Kids, what do you think? I mean, you're a business guy.

Yeah. I think that a lot of the people that were already in the signature event sponsors are going to stay on that level. And then you've already got a couple that we've seen. I know Greensboro stepped up. I don't think there's going to be that many events from what I saw. I mean, it looks like it starts in February and ends in August. So you really only have to have 18 or 20 tournaments on those levels. I don't think they mentioned that in that long email.

I read the entire email, by the way, Nico, that they sent us. That was probably the first time I've completed the entire email from them. I didn't. Yeah. Because I kept trying and I was like, I got to figure something out here. But I just think they feel like with their shrink in the size of the schedule that they can get to the level they need to with a certain amount of sponsors. and then the people that have been one of them forever, they expect to take over the Challenger Series.

And I'll be the most interested to see if a company like Waste Management says, I've been supporting you forever, this is my contract, I don't want to pay anymore. We're still going to have a badass tournament out here in Scottsdale, and they say, well, you have to be a Challenger Series, and what happens there? I don't know. So I think a lot to be figured out in a short amount of time. I have a question for Riggs mentioning that tournament.

you're very involved. Would that, like, because I don't want the PGA tour to look bad, but would the charities be affected if the waste management goes into like a challenger instead of championship? Like, let's put that scenario. Yeah, I think that, you know, we would worry that, you know, demoting the event would then demote interest. It would demote the amount people attend, spend, et cetera, right? Like last year, I believe we raised over $21 million for charity just from last year's event. And that's, you know, bringing Scotty Schaeffler, bringing a lot of big names without it being an elevated event.

So I think if it got, you know, put down to the Challenger series level, I think it would just by the trickle down effect, I think it would definitely diminish the amount that would be raised for charity because you just wouldn't have as big of a tournament. you wouldn't have as big of a field, you wouldn't have as much gravitas behind it. And I think it would be a harder thing to sell overall on the highest level. I think that tournament being by far the highest grossing PGA tour event that there is, that raises the most money for charity. I think it's over $250 million in the history of the event now for charity that like the merits of how it's run deserves to be in the highest level, which is the championship series. So I think that would be our pitch pretty easily.

It's it's unfortunately from what I understand, you know, the tour and WM, that kind of negotiation and how all that works doesn't have anything to do with the Thunderbirds. We just run the event from logistic standpoint and from selling hospitality and tickets and overall revenue and how much we are able to raise for charity. So, you know, we're sort of left in a position where it's like, we hope the tour and WM figured out WM has been a phenomenal partner for the Phoenix Open for a really long time. And we kind of do our part and hope that they figure it out on their part. But I would be stunned. I mean, I think obviously I'm tied to the event. I have my biases. I live here.

You know, I live two miles from the golf course. But I think before that, like, I viewed the Phoenix Open as like a top four or five PGA tour event of. the entire year from a fan perspective. There's nothing like it. I just feel like waste management has done a good job where they created an identity with the tournament. So how replaceable are they? Like, does that make sense? Definitely.

Yeah, I agree. It's a rare, it's a very rare event where people refer to it by its sponsor more than they refer to it by the name of the event, right? Like, I call it the Phoenix Open because whatever, I have my time. I understand. But like, you know, the waste management people, I would say 90% of sports fans are like, oh, yeah, I know the waste management. It's incredible.

Like they don't think of it as the Phoenix Open. They just think of it as the waste management. Isn't it supposed to be WM now, Riggs? Get it together. Well, I was calling it WM, but then he made the point where I still think most people call it the waste management. So, yeah, it is the WM Phoenix Open. But, yeah, you know, it is a great question of like how intrinsically tied is all of that?

is WM, is the tour, is the Thunderbirds and the Phoenix Open and all of it. So, you know, I think we're extremely happy with the way that the entire partnership has gone. The tour, Rolop came out and scouted and saw the event for a couple days for the first time this past February. I think he was blown away by the whole thing. So I think that they want it to be, you know, part of the championship series. But, but yeah, I mean, in terms of going to sponsors and asking for, for more money when they've been great partners for a long time,

whether it's WM or any other event. I imagine those are really hard conversations they have and we're not part of those conversations. And we will not. We're not. We're not. My question of Thunderbirds would be could you triple Decker 16 as a Challenger series? Right.

That's a great question. I think that's hard. I think it gets harder. Yeah, I do too. I mean, I would think that either your number would go down for the suites or the amount of sweets would go down one way or the other because it may not happen the first year but the trickled down by year two or three would definitely affect because the drunk people that show up that hardly know there's a golf tournament be like where's scotty

schaeffler where scottie schae and then he's not there for two years and people would just quit coming yeah i know i i think that's a very reasonable you know fear and concern and and look like it's our job as the active Thunderbirds to sell against the Phoenix Open. And I think when we're asking for X amount for hospitality suites anywhere on 16, on 17, on 18, for greenskeepers, for all the different things that we sell to raise the money that we then are able to use for charity, you know, if people say, hey, this got demoted to a Challenger series event, and they argue that it's basically a glorified cornfairy tour event. They're like, how come I'm paying more this year than I did last year when it was a Scotty

Shuffler event. What the hell is going on here? So I can completely understand that argument. So that's why I think we are making a pretty legitimate pitch being like, I think if you look at this event compared to every other event that's run in professional golf and on the PGA tour, that like this event has earned the right to be a championship series event, I think that they agree. I think most people agree. And I would imagine that you guys is like non-Thunderbirds that run it. I'd be shocked if people didn't agree with that. at the same time, to make a point, it's probably the event that people care the least about the golf. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, I, it's interesting to go to other events that are trying to copy aspects of it. You know, like you, you know, you won down at the bear trap. And like that event is, you know, I know for years they tried to get 16 or 15, 16, 17 to have more. like a Coliseum type feel like 16 right and it's like well they're doing that for a reason and that's because like what we do here works and so you know that's I think a good thing that's trying to be copied um and yeah there's definitely a point to be made of like I don't know how many of the people that buy tickets and upgraded hospitality to the WM Phoenix Open care that much about who's playing at the WMV.

I don't know how much that really matters. You know, you could maybe a decent percentage of them, you could just tell them like, oh yeah, this guy is one of the best players in the world. They'd be like, awesome. I'm going to watch them hit and not really care that much. So overall, I don't know. I don't know how much.

It would definitely affect it in some way. And I think it would be a little bit of like, it would feel like an unnecessary downgrade for something in an event that's been, you know, run extremely well, raised a ton of money for charity and been like a huge hit in the sports world when the waste management as most people call it comes around. I think people are pretty fired up to watch it and get behind it. You know, and hundreds of thousands of people come to it. So, so yeah, I think it's earned its place. This episode of Foreplay is brought to you by Cracken, the official crypto and

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We're getting there, Nico. We're getting there. What is going on? Are you having a bad day? You can be honest. No. No, I'm not. I'm having a great day.

I get to talk to Nico. I'm not a Thunderbird, so I don't have the inside information that, that rigs. I do see like the Brian rollout side of it though. Like I get that the implementation of all this seems like it's fast. But if you say he waits until all these contracts are up and then it's like, all right, let's renegotiate with this new system. The era of his PJ tour is already, we're already four or five

years into it then. And it's like people have forgotten that he's even there, that he's even trying to make a change. So I see that side of it. Now the other side that you guys are talking about in depth and I think it's super interesting. Yeah, it's definitely going to be tough on some of those events, but I can very much see, like, Rollap is brought in to be a difference maker and he wants to make those changes immediately. Otherwise, it's just going to run and people are going to be like, oh, yeah, remember they hired the NFL guy?

Like, what changes did he make when behind the scenes he would be handcuffed by all these contracts that nobody knows about? So I can understand why he wants to make waves and make them aggressively early on. People are going to get their feelings hurt. And I think he's a, I'm ready to hurt some feelings type of guy. and that's just the way that it's going to be run. Trent, that just got himself a job at the PJ2HQ right there.

That's, listen. But it's, I feel like that's kind of where he's coming from. Yeah. I guess I would also wonder, you know, how like,

if you're asking for more money from the sponsor, are you really delivering that much better of a product? That's something that remains to be seen, right? Like, we've had this. Right. You know, I don't think that's his argument, though.

I think his argument is this is the price of doing business with the PGA tour now because this is the market. I don't think the contract says that, though. No, I'm saying that's his theory to these sponsors is everything goes up, just like we talked about earlier in this podcast a few weeks away. Gas, everything goes up extremely. The price of doing business in the PGA tour in 28 has gone up.

Yeah. And I guess if I. I'm on the other side of that, I would be like, okay, just, I need some justification for why it's going up, you know, like what is the, I think he says it's a market. If I've already, what does he have? 12 to 14 championship series already locked in? Well, they're, so they're, they're total going to do, I believe, 24 event weeks. Four of those are majors, the players, and then a Ryder Cup or President's Cup.

So you're looking at Yeah somewhere around that number And you know I guess if if I'm a sponsor being asked to pay a bunch more money I'd be like well what's what is the massive upgrade from what I was paying for before Yeah but what I'm saying the complete opposite is he's already he's already sold that model to 12 sponsors that are already in that I've seen announced I mean, the new Greensboro is one of them. New sponsors stepped up willing to pay.

So it's like, in his mind, this is the market. Right. This is the new market price. If we have 10 or 12 that are already in, we only need six to eight more. Yeah. And then those six to eight more for sure, I guess down the line. But if like Nico's kind of saying, if you've already got a contract in place, then it's like, what?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, if the domino's, are falling in terms of people sponsors stepping up, they're at the plate they're willing to pay and then that's the new market price has been set like the

quarterbacks whenever they set the new market, it's similar for sure. And if that's the case then then yeah you have really you have all the cards if you're roll app. I just would really be curious. Yes, like

you said, I don't know that we know all the numbers. Do we know all the numbers on those 12 or so that they've sold and like are they are they all at a certain number? And if they are, then, yeah, good for them. I mean, that's insane. But yeah, it'll be interested to see how it all falls in the end. And it'll be very interesting, I think, to look more at the Challenger series and see, like,

what do those events look like? You know, it sort of had a little bit of that taste over the last couple of years with, like, elevated events versus non-elevated events where it was sort of a thing, the elephant in the room that nobody wanted to be like, well, if you're not an elevated event, and you're just like a de-elevated event? Is that what you are? And, you know, and that's shitty. So,

but yeah, we'll kind of see. Hopefully you're just out there crushing it on the championship series, Nico, and it doesn't matter. That's right. That's the best way to go, Nico. Just go out there and crush. Again, I'm lucky I don't make these decisions. Golf would be in trouble.

Seven out of the 15 events needed for championship. Series in 28 have been publicly confirmed. With four more announcement, it's expected soon. So that would take you to 11. They're only going to need 15. At least $20 million purses, which is a lot. That's the same as the signature events that were already ongoing, though. That's what I'm saying is a lot of those signature events are just opting in because they've already done it.

That's the market. Right. Right. But the interesting part with these signature events is that they moved around, right? Like they weren't, they weren't just like set in stone forever signature events, at least not all of them. Because I remember kind of year after year, it felt like there would be pebble would be one. Then the WM would be one. And then, you know, so it's like what's, right.

Are you locked in as a signature event if you were a signature event this year? Because then it's like a little bit unfair to the other ones. I'm glad I'm with Nico. I'm just glad I'm not having to do that. I know. Do you guys want to talk president's cup? We don't have to. we can keep kicking it down the can, you know, kicking the can down the road.

Oh, we can eventually. Trent, I want to hear about your swing. What's the process right now? Well, you did get longer. Well, yeah, I mean, it's all thanks to, well, it's two things. It's Kevin Kisner. And yeah, I mean, yeah, it's performance golf and it's Kevin Kisner have helped me out to get me to a point where I can hit the ball further. I'm hitting draws now.

Um, it's not perfect. Yeah. Maybe too much overdrawls. Yeah. So I went through this period where we play with Kevin Kinser during, I believe it was Players Week. We played a match against him. It was his first video on board with the crew.

And like on the 15th hole, he was like, open. I remember hearing about this. Just open your foot. And I did it. And it was magic. And I was like, holy shit. I'm one of the best golfers on planet Earth. And I continue to play that way for a few months.

where I was just hitting these tight draws. And people were like, what the fuck is going on? Like, what happened? And I got so confident with it. And so like, this is my game now. Let's turn this thing up another notch to try to get the ball going even further. And I started pulling the ball like you wouldn't believe. And it was really, really bad.

Pulling balls that amount. So like I just, I really, I overcorrected because it felt so good to hit draws and hit the ball a little bit further. But now I've kind of centered it back to a point. where I'm hitting good golf shots. And it's proving out that like my game is way better. It's way more fun to play golf that way. And yeah, I'll still throw up. I mean, when I went and played with Kevin Kisner in the mountains,

I shot a 98. You know, mountain golf might not be my thing. But overall, my game is way, way, way better. And we just put out of Breaking 85 that people should go watch that me and Frankie did. Yeah, it's coming around. My game is, it's just like everybody else's. It's a big work in progress. I'm the same as you.

I mostly hit cuts before you did the change. And I also walk open footed. And sometimes I don't open my feet enough. So Kiss knows what he's doing. He does. Well, I was watching him on a T-box. He goes to hit a golf ball and he moves his toes and points him almost pigeon-toe, but he walks with him at 45 degrees open.

I said, what are we doing here? correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it kind of a natural proper progression from like shitty golf to pretty good golf that you have to kind of go through a phase where you hook the ball a little bit? I don't know about that. I don't know idea.

I would say you're probably asking the two, you're not asking the right guys. Like if we're us, right. Yes. Like I think you're at, because I've gotten that feedback from people who I've told that story to where they're like,

I get that. Like that's part of improvement where you finally start doing right thing and you overdo it and then you're doing the wrong thing just on the other side these guys they wake up they get out of bed and they they you know they shoot a 68 they don't know what the fuck they don't even want to hear they don't want to hear hook the ball that's like they're yeah he's gonna shut this laptop turn his phone off that's funny I would much rather you overdraw it then hit that white slice it goes 212 in the right woods though before we get into President's Cup, I have a question to ask for kids.

Kids, what are two, three things that throughout your career, you wish you would have done that you didn't? That's a good question. I told these guys on this pot earlier this year that I wish, looking back, I would have celebrated the highs more because they don't come that often. So, like, after you won the Cognison, I would have told you, like, go enjoy it for a few days, even maybe take your wife on a trip for two days or something. Because I was always like, if I can win that, I should win the Masters and then I want to win this and I want to put on the President's Cup team and the Router Cup team

and it's always just a nonstop grind. Let me think of some more. I think second I'd probably start stepping on all these kids' mirrors and teas on putting greens. That's a good one. third i probably would prepare differently than i did when i was really good i uh my whole theory when i was really good was i'll just outwork you like even if it's not good i would just have a plan and just grind into oblivion and i think that's why i don't love playing as much in my 40s as i should

so you would have conserved more your energy and if you're doing something like really think what you're doing and why? Yeah, I would just totally be, have a plan for my purpose instead of I'm going to stay out here and chip and put or hit balls until nobody else is out here because I'm 510, 160 pounds with 165 mile an hour ball speed and I have to figure out to beat these giants. So that didn't really come out until like mid, mid teens of 2000. So that was your, it was almost like you were doing that, not because it was productive, if you were doing that because mindset-wise, you were like,

if I'm the last guy out here, I outworked you. Well, yeah, if I worked harder on you, I'll get more breaks than you and I deserve it more, which has nothing to do with it at all. It is so wrong. Yeah, so wrong. But that made me be able to tee it up, even if I was sore and tired on Thursday,

thinking that all this good stuff was going to come to me because I put the time in. You remember what did Gary players say like it? Whoever practices the month? More I practice. I guess the luckier I get. It was kind of like that. That's the dumbest thing ever.

I still could hit a tree on the first hole and kick out of bounds. But you would, like your mindset after like grinding Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, like you're confident. Was that helping you short term of I am so prepared that I'm almost more prepared than anyone else? Yeah, I also did it more at home too, where I would just miss all the things that were probably more crucial to my life by just saying I can't. have to grind. Never went on, you know, friends trips and missed weddings and things like that that I wish I probably should have spent more time going to.

But I also was super successful for a 10-year stretch. So it's hard to say, hey, you're an idiot. But that was the way that I prepared. And in hindsight, I don't think I necessarily had to do it that way. It's interesting. It is, you know, like chicken and the egg kind of thing where it's like, you know, you didn't do it. What if I didn't?

And I never made it off the Corn Ferry tour. I would be pissed. I didn't work harder. So it's not the greatest advice of all time, but it is something I always think about. I just remember telling my wife thousands of times, like, I can't because I have to practice. Yeah. So in an advice, you would say,

go do something that you really want to do. If you, if you're not going to get that much better in one practice session? Correct. Like if you've got something that you think is important until you go do it. Okay. And don't like, like, if I did it, I would have this thing in back of my head that Nico is practicing and I'm not.

And then I could never like carry it through. Nico, how do you think you handle yourself as a guy in his early 30s? Like, what's your response to the way that he is talking about the way that he went about his career? In what, in one sense? Just like, how do you handle all the things that he's saying? Like, do you, are you like him where you're just grinding and grind and grind and grind? And I feel like all the guys are, but like, do you, like, after the cognizant, did you take time to enjoy it? Like, how are you, what is your reflection of his career there?

I got, I celebrated well after the win. I got very drunk on Sunday. And I, unfortunately, to all the members at Seminole, I didn't show up. Well, I didn't show up, no. I told my playing partner in the Seminole program that I wasn't going to make it because I had the 715 AM T-10, first off. And he, he was very nice to me. and said I would do the same thing you're doing. So I did celebrate.

And then I played Bay Hill and I was, I think, five or six under through nine thinking like the first time seeing Bay Hill or first time playing, it's like, this course is not that hard. And then I proceeded to make eight or a nine on hold number 12. So that's a little slapping reality. It's like, you're not Roy or you're not Scotty. It always seems to do it in this game, right? when you think you're at the pinnacle,

it just lets you know that it's really fucking hard still. Yeah. I do think there's probably an element that is now coming more to light than it did before of just because you're not like grinding or banging balls or whatever it might be, putting mirrors and T's all over so kids can't put anywhere. Like you could do, you could be doing other things that are good for you,

that are making you like better overall than that would be like if you are taking a two or three day vacation with your friends that actually in the long run is like better for you and you'll actually get more out of the following week when you work hard and grind than you would if you went 10 days straight because you might be refreshed you might be happier mentally emotionally whatever the hell it might be like i think people are coming a little bit more around to that being a reality, then maybe they used to and they used to just kind of have the mindset the kids is saying, which is like, if you're not beating balls in the rain, you're losing ground. Whereas like, well, there's actually a larger, more like encompassing version of yourself

that you need to like work on as well. I don't compliment myself a lot, but I feel like people here have such a bad time. Like they're just showing the process of practicing and the mirrors and this. I actually like to have a, I enjoy myself. I talk about some random things with my caddy. We laugh a lot. Like I have, I like to have a good time,

but some guys just look miserable out here. The stress levels are all time high on the PGA tour amongst the players, you can tell. And then you got the young kids. Especially this time of the year. Yeah. I don't know half the kids in the tournament here, but man,

they're grinding, grinding, grinding, you can just tell that it's like make or break. And I have no idea where anybody sits on any, list or anything. So I'm just walking around just observing the whole time. And it's just fascinating to watch. And that's when I always go back to the theory that I talk about on this podcast all the time. You think this 22 year old kid that's out here just, you know, when I was 22, we were drinking on Tuesday nights and like feeling hung over as shit on Wednesday and then

playing on Thursday 15 years ago. And there's no way these kids are doing that. I just wonder if they'll be able to have a prolonged career with that amount of grind. This episode is brought to you by Woop, the wearable device that gives you personalized insights into your sleep, your recovery, the strain you're taking on and how daily choices may be influencing your overall well-being. I have to say I unfortunately broke my green streak due to a late-night hockey game last night, which is a real shame.

I was on a heater. I had many days in a row. and then 45% last night. You just can't get your heart rate down after a hockey game that ends at 11 p.m. Trying to go to sleep. I'm looking at this. Boys, my resting heart rate throughout the evening, usually around 54, 53. It was at 68 last night while your boy was just laying there looking at the ceiling.

Trying to fall asleep. My HRV went from what's usually around 70 down to 40. And again, that's just a 9.30 p.m. hockey game that ends at 11. You know, I ate a little chicken sandwich at like 1130. and I just stared at that ceiling for like an hour and a half is real shame. Yeah, I've noticed on the whoop if you, it tells you what time your body does best to go to sleep. Have you noticed that? If you stay, if you go to sleep at the normal time where you're supposed to, you can crush some recovery.

And that's what I always failed to do when mine hits the floor, which it's been known to do before. I picked up the, I picked up the green baton for you there, Riggs. I'm a green right now, 79%. It's a group effort. It's a team effort. We're all trying to get in better, better shape, better health. But, dude, going to bed at the same time every night, apparently is a huge, huge thing. I rarely follow it.

But if I do end up doing it for a couple of days, I'm always in the green. So that's the type of stuff that the whoop will give you, the feedback on go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time. Just get your body into better habits. And the whoop is going to help you do that. It really is. And, boy, I can't tell you how difficult that is to do when you're on the road. and you're like, you get, you know, I get this, you get a push notification from Woop, which is awesome. And it says, it's about time to go to bed.

And it's like, to optimize your sleep, please go to sleep in the next hour to stay consistent with the, and you're like, brother, it's like, I'm like four hours away from going to sleep. Like, whatever, I'm either on a plane, we haven't even digging off yet or something. So the travel does not make it easy. Luckily, I've been home for quite a few days, which is why I'm able to have that green streak. but we love Whoop. It's been huge for our lives. It empowers you to make better decisions by providing you with actionable insights into your sleep recovery training and overall health. You can join Whoop today at join.Woop.com slash barstool for your first month free.

All right. We're going to get you your first month free. All you got to do is go join whoop and go to join.wop.com slash barstool. Pinkies up, boys and girls. Pinkies up. cry, the rallying cry for Pink Whitney. Take your Pink Whitney shots, makes the golf course better, makes all experiences better. They're searching for, Pink Whitney is searching for its most valuable pinky.

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thousand dollars with pink whitney best part our MVP won't just take home the cash their pinky will be featured on a times square billboard oh that's pretty cool we talk about the uh the barso classic at some point during the show and pink whitney was a huge hit this year great build out at every single stop people love going to that hole get to the hole take a pink whitney shot makes your day that much better out there at the barstool classic so it's just been a huge hit we love Whitney, it's delicious, it's refreshing. Just a fantastic, fantastic product. Whether your pinky is pretty, powerful, photogenic, or just downright pink, we want to see it.

Here's how we see it. You go to Most ValuablePinky.com for official rules and details. Pinkies up. Once again, you can win $10,000. You can get your pinky featuring in a Times Square Billboard. All you got to do is go to Most Valuable Pinky.com. You know, we don't have Park President's Cup if you guys don't want to. Yes.

Yeah, I want to hear what the I NTs. I got to, this is my research time for the broadcast booth. There's so many secrets I can share kids. Yeah, no, I don't want the secrets. I just want to know what y'all got going on over there. That is funny as hell, isn't it? Everybody's like, what do y'all do in the team room? I'm like, throw football and eat and people get treatment and some people work out and

people fart and we talk about who's going to go play next. Like, oh, really? Yeah, that's pretty much it. That's it. That's the whole deal. I feel like we, I'm going to say we are inferior as a team based on golf results and statistics. But I think our advantage is that we've, Jeff has done a good job to get us pretty close. Like different cultures, which is very hard, but he's found a way of connecting and making

as like play together on regular events or practice rounds or sit together or go to dinner or this and that and i think that those little things make a big difference coming down the stretch in team events i don't know if you share the same thing or think the same thing but we're such individuals that is always me me me and now you're playing for something more that i think since we're such underdogs, we have to take that as a positive and make it like some sort of faith of I'm playing for them of how close I'm getting to them and how they're becoming my brothers almost. I don't know if that's too cheesy. But it's the truth. I mean, we have to almost make a miracle to win at Medina and we believe that we can. So we're going to go out there and do our best

and see where we are on Sunday. Kids, you've been part of these teams? What do you think of that? Well, I think he's kind of up playing the underdog thing. I know they are underdogs, but that's kind of their motto every time when they come to this, and they're going to a home field advantage for the U.S. with their captain being the architect of the golf course. So I kind of giggle at that whole thing.

But I get it. I would be doing the same thing if I was in their shoes. On paper, yes, they are massive underdog. I would assume. But I also think that the U.S. picks some youth and you have some opportunities there to find out if you can push the youth to a point where they're not feeling so great from the team USA point. If you put them under the gun and they don't perform as a big advantage for the internationals, and it can also flip, those guys could go play great on Thursday and Friday and just feel like they're going to conquer the world. So I think that's a huge piece for the international team

is how they start on Thursday and Friday, if they can get off to a good start and really put the pressure on the team USA as at their home country event, the weekend could be electric. Yeah. Amen. I'll defend Niko calling it underdogs real quick with just a quick little background and context

on draft king's sports book, the United States of America is minus 400 to win the President's Cup. The all-time record in the history of the President's Cup is 13-1 and 1. The United States of America against the international team. If you go player through player on the ranking system, Scotty Sheffler, number one, Siwu Kim, Top Dog, over there, number 13, Cam Young 3, Ryan Fox, 25th, Wyndham Clark 5th, Hadeki Matsuyama, 26th, Henley, 6th, Minoo Lee, 29th. Gotter up seventh, Tom Kim, 30th, Sam Burns, 9th, Adam Scott, 51st, Zander Schauffley, 10th, Corey Conner's 54th, Colomorcawa, 11th, Nico, this is 56th, I think this might be for a week or two ago, JT, 21st, Sungay 57th, Patrick Cantley, 27th, hits that SUNYf, 65th, Bridgman 28th, Nick Taylor, 80th, Jackson Coyvin, 66th, and Christian Bazaden Hoot, 96th. So again, you want to, you know, in terms of the the underdogs, I think that's pretty fair. Having said that, it was three, I think,

President's Cups ago when in Melbourne, you know, the internationals were right there. I think ended up losing by two. So it's not like, and we all talk about like any top 100 player in the world of golf, even higher. I mean, even Kiz this week. You guys go up against each other. Anybody plays 18 holes. Anybody could beat anybody, which I think is Kiz's point. So I understand both sides, but for context of the underdog thing, I don't know that he's overselling it, I guess, is what I would say. I think we, I think Ernie was the one with the Shield thing, and he was doing a good job, like, creating this.

And obviously a lot has happened in golf in the last few years that the international team has been affected big time for players not being able to play in the President's Cup. But I think Trevor, did a good job, Mike did a good job, and now Jeff is doing an incredible job of. And we'll see. We'll see where next president's cup in Australia, I think it is, or I don't know if it's been announced. I might have screwed that up. We'll see who plays, and we'll see if we're still that big of an underdog, and hopefully

we can make history next week. all right it's a great point with like the um obviously with live and with the separation and how the teams have been affected there's there's no doubt about it i would say you know i'd be very curious like if you guys as a team have tried to learn anything from europe have like taken anything i've studied talked about anything because maybe it's not quite as like, I don't want to say lopsided in terms of the odds of what you would find at Draft King's sports book. Like the Europeans are generally from a world ranking standpoint,

lower from all the standpoint. They would be underdogs. They were significant other dogs going into Bethpage and they find a way to win quite a bit. I wonder if you guys take anything from them. Yeah, there's some sort of momentum since we only play once every two years and Europe only plays once every two.

years. We've taken note. I haven't. This is my first president's cut, but they've been taking notes of what works and what not. I think Luke and Camilo are pretty close. Luke and Trevor are very close. So if you're not picking Luke's brain on these sort of things, like you're doing the wrong job. So he's somewhat of an open book to them. And I think he's been very helpful. picking the brain of our boogeyman. I don't like that. Nigo, I know y'all went to Chicago last week. The whole squad was there, I believe.

What did y'all do? Do you all go out? Do you all do anything in Chicago? Or was it just strictly golf? Yeah, we got there on Wednesday last week. It was Rio's birthday, hits at Tsunah. And we got pretty drunk on Wednesday. We were hurt on Thursday.

I'm not used to playing hangover golf, but that competitive juice like matches going on kind of gave you some energy uh we played some uh best ball nine holes on thursday we played some individual matches on the back nine that thursday when we played like 10 it was 10 of us we went and got paired up with a with an alternate shot partner and we played for for some money for five or six holes so it was a lot a fun that day, then we play the next morning, alternate shot, and we left. Beautiful. I think hit set soon he might be his coming out party.

I think it's going to be perfect for him. He's got a great personality. People don't understand that or have not seen that side of him. I think he could just really show out for you guys. I know. He's, I call him the jacuzza, the Japanese mafia. Some Colombian mafia calling him the Japanese mafia. It's fantastic.

What did you guys think of the golf course? You get any tips there from the architect? The year before we went on a scouting trip, it was maybe 15 or 20 of us, and it was, I mean, brand new. The greens were firm and fast. It was playing more of what they were envisioning that place to be played,

firm, fast, like a lot of role. We went last weekend It was a little soft I think they're getting some rain in Chicago this week It'll be softer Than what it's probably supposed to be played But Mother Nature We haven't figured that one out

We were still five down Against Mother Nature in match play Mother Nature owns us But yeah that place is pure man The The vibe The first few holes are very cool there's a fence all the way the left side.

And if Trent was playing, he would be in trouble right now hitting it left. No way, no hitting it left. That place is really cool. I played it before. Obviously, they did the restoration and kind of the redesign. But the clubhouse and the whole feeling there, how much golf they've got, a place is really fun. It's an elite course, and I was shocked. It's probably the biggest golf property and like elite golf America,

would say like i haven't seen anything like this yeah huge ballpark massive a lot of uh was the imagine the infrastructure and all that was looking pretty good for the build out yeah yeah it was sweet that first he's gonna be rocking yeah i heard the build out on one one it was incredible what's one just like a medium like par four or something like that no nothing medium about i think it's five something or four 90 it's it's normally the fifth full of the course oh Oh, they're doing that. But they always try to arrange like the best holes of the golf course to be played. Number two is a really good hole that is going to be played as number 16.

It's a part, part three. 17 and 18 for the President's Cup is normally three and four, which are, don't have much to it. But sometimes those matches don't last until those holes. So they always kind of try to have the. best holes for the entire match. I don't know they switched around that much. Yeah, that's a lot there. They do it all the time.

Yeah, they did it in Charlotte, too. Yeah, it's because you hardly get to 18 and the foursomes and four ball. And so they have to try to guess the build out around 15 and 16. All the math says most matches in there. So they don't want all these people sitting around 18 and then nobody gets there on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Right. Yeah, I remember. when we were at the Rider Cup last year,

and on Saturday with my parents, we sat on 17, which part three, awesome hole at that page. And like, we saw one match come through, I think, like,

the whole day. And, like, golf courses are usually built to crescendo with, like, the finish, you know, so yeah,

if you don't get to those holes, I think that kids, I remember at Liberty National when you played with Phil, and they did it so that that part three that you guys did, your little dance on to finish, which I think is the fourth hole.

And the fifth hole being the starting hole was a outrageous. Outrageous. Is that the one water left, O.B., right? Yeah, that was the first tee shot downhill. My first shot in President's Cup history, Nika, a pair with Phil Mickelson, alt shot, and he gives me the odds. And it's blowing 40 off the right.

Oh. Where did that ball go? Right down the pipe, birdie. right down the middle. Yeah, no. I tell people all the time, I don't even remember touching that ball. I looked up and was like, how is that going down the middle? Holy shit.

That's probably what I'm going to feel. Yes, you will. But there's some of the stories of that. Like, guys, we've told so many stories. Guys switching the, you know, every stat nerd tells you, you got to be odds and your partner's got to be evens and the odd guy getting to the first team. Like, no way I can hit, dude. got to hit. The captain's come up on a hole four.

Like, what are you doing hitting on this whole, Nico? It's like, well, I couldn't hit on one. So I had to hit on two. That's funny. It's also like, okay, you're blessed to have those nerves. I mean, give me those nerves. No doubt. There's that perspective of better to be there than not.

It's a great way to look at it. That is a great way to look. That's like a winner's way of looking at it instead of like losers or kind of just like, please don't put me in that position, man. I wouldn't even come out of the locker room. I wouldn't even be on property by the time we started. Trent's on a bus on a bus to the airport. Gone.

Yeah. Go get them. I'll tee up on two guys. Yeah. Bye. Are you still pretty? Are you still getting very nervous, Trent? Like filming the breaking 85?

No. No. What about when you're on crunch timing? You know, like, you have to make a bogey or a bar. or yeah i still get shaky hands if i'm playing well and i we start coming down the stretch i it's as it's so crazy and it's so dumb and i'm talking to nico at chavaria and kevin kisner and you guys have been in huge moments and i'm out there trying to shoot i'm trying to break 90 i remember being so nervous during some of those some of those rounds but it's like yeah when i'm trying to

accomplish something on the golf course that i've never done before i get legitimately nervous and it's like i wish i couldn't i wish i could somehow stop it but I definitely still get those nerves for sure. There's a lot of celebrities today playing the pro-em. Did you see that, kids? Oh, yeah. Any balls was out there? I play with, well, you probably don't know these guys,

but they both play football in South Carolina. Connor Shaw and Patrick DeMarco. Connor Shaw was the quarterback for years. And he crazily, he's younger than me. He's close to your age, had a heart attack. And a year ago tomorrow and was basically brought back to life with two young kids. and, yeah, it was fun day to be out there with them. I don't play football.

Nico, did you say Glutty Balls was out there? Yeah. Fat Perez. Fat Perez was there. Caleb was there. Jesus. What's the guy who, Ed Lottery? Eric Lottery, yeah, he was there.

Eric Lottery. Yep, yep. He's a beauty. Did you play with any of them? No, I saw them on the golf course. I played with. The guys who recently, not recently, maybe six or seven years ago, bought all the Cliff's courses. And they own a bunch of golf courses.

They own PJ National. They own like 40 golf courses around the country. Oh, wow. Yeah. All right. Oh, PJ National. So they're like, you're like their guy. Yeah.

I'm the face of your product. Right. They got like frame photos of you all over the place. Incredible. Incredible. How many courses do the cliffs have, Nico? Like eight? Seven or eight, yeah.

But they also own the land, which is where they make the cheddar. Same guys own Kiowa, I think, Hilton Head. Maybe. Yeah. Palmetto Bluff? Palmetto Bluff. They own there, too.

That's the one they, I asked, like, which one's the one you've made? the most success and he said by far that one. Yeah, they're from Charlotte, these guys. South Street. I've never been to Kiowa, but my favorite Kiowa story was after we did the Kisner match at Pinehurst

with my guy, Mr. Paschley, and we were sitting around the fire pit, and we were all kind of gassing up Pinehurst and talking about it. This was like the 2020. This was like the first ever four-man scramble, and we raised a bunch of money, and it went really well. It was during COVID, so nobody else was doing

anything, so we had a bunch of attention. And then around the fire pit, Pashley was like, I'm going to get like, Kiz to just go off on Piner's. This is going to be great. He was like, yeah, kids, I know you're loving your time of Piner. It's like, what about that, Kewa down the street? You know, what do you think about that? And expected him to be like, you know, it's fine. But like, I really, and he just goes, boy, Kiowa is the fucking best.

He was like, that place is so pure. All that he just started. Pass was like, damn, I did not want that. Are they direct competition? You know, I mean, they're both like Carolina. So I think that Piner's is kind of a competition with all those places. But Kia was one that relatively local people probably choose between the two and they're different ones on the ocean, ones.

And, you know, so yeah, they're definitely competitors. But he just teed them up and kids went the other direction with it. It was great. Have you guys played Winston? Have you guys played Old Town in Winston, Salem? No, I don't think I've played it. I'm playing the member pro there in two weeks.

The week after the President's Cup. Oh, yeah, you're going to be hung over again. You're going to miss your tea time. And then I'm going to Japan. That'll be fun. Are you playing the Tour event in Japan? Yeah. Is that the Zosso?

It's something else now. It was called the Zoso until a random guy won the tournament and it was you? sponsors. Yeah. That was you that won that turn. Yeah, they moved venues.

It was like, call in one there, Egan won there, Tiger one there. And then I proceed to win. Let's get out of here. Sponsor pulls out. They're like, what is this? Yeah. Incredible.

I've heard Japan from a visiting standpoint is as good as it gets. Oh, it's so sweet. It is so nice. The culture is amazing. So clean. no trash There's a cool story that you're not

there's not a lot of trash cans but everything is perfectly clean like you can you can put your finger down on the street and I'm not going to say liquid but you'll be fine

and it's because people their trash is their trash so they put it in backpack and when they go home they throw the trash away at home no way Yeah. Dude, you can't find a piece of trash

in that country. I remember from the World Cup, they would show like the Japanese fan sections and then the Japanese locker rooms for their team and everything that they used and it was spotless. And then they showed photos of like other normal teams

and it's chaos afterwards. It was cleaner than before where they got there. Their fans were coming back and cleaning their section in the stadium and the seats. big trash bags at the World Cup. That's how more in advance they are in culture.

Like they are superior culture. God. Yeah, I want to go to Japan. I heard the foods off the charts. Yeah. Go to Columbia first. You guys have been promising to go to Columbia. We really have been for like five years now.

I've been there. You have? You have? Yeah, man. Play that corn fairy event down there a couple times. Oh, in Bogota. Yeah. Yeah.

I loved it. ball goes far yeah well you didn't need it to go far that course i know that's how it's so tricky he had to walk it walk single file off the tee to get down the fairway how tight is that first t shot unbelievable goodness gracious oh be left and it's and it the fairway goes left and there's trees blocking you on the right it's like my goodness and it's only like a four iron that you hit yeah and it just goes out of bounds Did you play it firm and fast or it was soft? Yeah, I hit it out of bounds there.

Also, the 18th to FAR 5. Yeah, dogleg right. I made Dewey move the signs for the sponsor and I went down that other hole and then they told me that was illegal one time or something. 17. You went down 17. Yeah, and then I could hit like a six iron on the green instead of having to fit that driver in this tight fairway. It doesn't fit your draw, does it? No, it does not?

That was a course where if you and I played a practice round, I would be like, dude, I can't play this hole and you wouldn't even see the tree I'm talking about. And then you would say you couldn't play a hole and I'd never even know what tree you were talking about. Yeah, it's crazy. And the ball doesn't curve either. It doesn't curve.

It's even harder. Yeah. Incredible. We got to, we got to do. We actually just had a content meeting yesterday about doing like international travel series. And then I was thinking once we were like, oh, we're going to have Nico back on the show. I was like, we have owed him a Colombian travel series for like half a decade

at this point. Yeah. They'll set it up. Now that we have a championship series and I can arrange my weeks, I'll have you guys down there and we can play a little travel series. I think we would have so much fun. I would have so much fun in Columbia. I would love that. Yeah, me too. A couple servaises. those are bases for a more those bring them at the same time

probably trace for kids all right Nico I'm excited for next week man I cannot wait to get to the President's Cup we're going to be out there for a few days your first President's Cup I'm sure you're going to have some butterflies going do you know if you're going to be hitting first T-shot

I don't want to give anything away but you know It starts with four ball. The first session is four ball. So if he's in it, he's going to hit one on one. I love it. Yes. If I'm in it, I'm going to hit on the first hole. All right.

Well, do something magical. Give me something to talk about on Saturday and Sunday. I'm going to be up there in that booth with a coat and tie on, choking my throat. I need some energy out of you so I can get fired up. I texted Frankie that, uh, I was going to do the sock thing that he does and has an international shield there, and I'm going to be so much in his head. I've already told him.

It's not hard to get in that dumb. No. A lot of room in there. A lot of room in there. A lot of room for activities. All right, Nico. You're the man. We appreciate you.

Play great this week, too, buddy. I'll see you out there. Thanks, brother. You too. Thanks. Thank you.