Fore Play - Numbers Never Lie, with Scott Fawcett

Episode Date: May 11, 2021

Trent has begun his assault on double digits. Rory wins again. And we are joined by golf statistician & strategy consultant Scott Fawcett (31:24), who works with Will Zalatoris, Stewart Cink and many others, about course management. Where should you aim? Why? When should you go for it? Should you ever attack pins? All this and much more.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Foreplay, I'm at Barstool Sports. It's an extremely unique show, and we have a lot to talk about. Obviously, Roy McElroy is back. It seems to be the year of people being back. I think what's amazingly going to take precedent over that is that our guy Trent went down to Georgia with John Tillery, a swing coach for Kevin Kisner, for Ricky Fowler, for us.

others. And he went down there and had himself one of the great weekends that I've heard nothing about yet, except I saw a bunker shot video. And now Trent is, of course, a man who's been defeated, murdered, had rounds killed and slaughtered by many a bunker across this great globe, from Australia to California, to Aaron Hills, Wisconsin. And I saw a bunker shot that looks so professional. So we got a lot of that to get to Owens Mixers. Okay. We are here. We are presented by. We are brought by obviously Barstall Sports and Owens Mixers. I saw a ton this last weekend from golf carts to different 19th holes to couches to courses to boats to everywhere.

People were drinking the transfusion. People were drinking their Paloma. Shout out to Lurch. So big thanks to Owens Mixers. We love Owens, right, gentlemen? Love Owens. We absolutely love Owens. We fucking love it.

It's fucking delicious. And you don't have to try to be a hero. You have to be out there being some mixologist. You don't have to try to whip up some cocktail that you're not capable of whipping up. You don't have to study. You don't have to think you're some genius. You don't have to think you understand liquor or drinks or mixtures, or anybody else because all you've got to do is just go to Amazon or go to Kroger

or go to your Publix. If you're in the South, get the Owens Mixers, pour it in with your favorite liquor, and you have an awesome cocktail. All right. What's up, boys? How are we? We have the whole squad right now. Lurch is with us for the first half hour, I believe,

and then he's got some crazy travel schedule I just saw on Instagram. But how are we? I'm good. You've got an insane background. For anybody watching on YouTube, you're at the Barstool Classic, and everything, am I? I too close to my microphone? Just a little bit.

Thank you. You can't see, though. No, I can't. That's right. I have a stye, but I don't want to take that away from what Riggs has got going on. He's just at Half Moon Bay. Barstool Classic. The ocean's crashing in the background.

He's wearing a blue quarter zip. Shout out Peter Millar. It's just, it's a pretty crazy backdrop. It almost, like, I feel like if you hopped in any Zoom in America, they just think that's a standard, nice oceanic background for like this Zoom age. you know, popping in, talking about drones, selling, you know, thought leaders in the space. So, but you're just there. Like, I don't know how the technology is working.

I can sometimes never even fire off an Instagram story on a golf course, but you're just crystal clear. By far better internet where you are right now than the office. Listen to this. So we have, we're at Barstall HQ, me and Frankie. We have one of the studios booked right now, but we thought that the internet would be so shitty from a podcast studio in Barstall HQ that we are now doing it in these little rooms that are scattered across the building, and Riggs is at Half Moon Bay, and his internet is way better than ours is right now. Boys, I'm in like a, this is like a pumpkin farm type area that's out here. There's nothing.

On the range, there's like coyotes running around attacking people. Yet all I did was hook my laptop up to my cell phone, a little tether device, and I'm perfect. I'm crystal clear. It feels like we're in the same fucking room right now, except for you two because you're at the office. Me, allergic feels like we're in the same room. Dude, I couldn't be more pale right now. It's actually scary. My eyes are working great right now, but I am as white as I've ever been in this white room.

Trent just got back from a lovely weekend on the lake in Georgia. You're out in California. I mean, Lurch hasn't been inside for a week, it looks like. I mean, it looks like he's just living out in the wilderness. And I don't know that I could be more opposite than you guys. The beard is really something. The beard's starting to come in. I will say, Frankie, I think the fact that you can't see right now makes your facial expressions like almost like you have a dead face.

Like some like I don't because there's not like the connectivity between your brain your eyes like isn't isn't happening. So you look even more. There is zero color in your face. Zero. I'm talking not a shade of color of that thing. It's really scary. It's bad. But I will say like being blind sucks.

Like I don't know how like golfing like this would be a nightmare. I don't know that I'd be able to hit the ball. Yeah. I would think no offense to blind people. I think like having visions probably better than not. And you should be happy now because, again, you are wider than the wall around you, I think. Yeah, I know. So it's a little.

So I've had to start for like a week and a half. So maybe a what's up doc thing? It's like, what's going on with that? I've been teabagging, hot compressing. I've been rolling the eye. I'm on this erythomysian ophthalmolic ointment that I roll on my eye every four hours. And it's just, it burns. And it's like, was this ever going to go away?

I mean, I went to a communion party. other day and everyone's like, get away from me. Like, you're like around kids and mothers and like, they're like, look at your eye. It was bad this weekend. And I'm trying to have normal conversations. I'm like, I know what's going on here. I know I look gross. I know it's hard to look at.

But let's just, let's move on from that and have a conversation. Couldn't even happen. They put me in the corner. Well, look, I'm impressed that you're battling through it. We have a huge show. We got Scott Fawcett who's coming on who does decade stats guy. Him and Lou Stagner are these big stats gurus all over Twitter. You see him.

They're firing shot. They think they're smarter than everybody else. And they probably, to a degree, in terms of their approach, are. We had Will's Al-Toros on last week, and he is a disciple, a student of Scott and decade and what they do. And, you know, Brandel went on a big sort of essay during the Masters about how somebody like Will's Al-Torfs was able to compete and able to have great course strategy and great course experience at the Masters for his first round or first tournament playing because of what's, Scott and his crew do. So we're going to get into it because we've talked a lot on this show about approaches, about should we hit, you know, three wood because we're hitting drivers out of play all over the place. When should we hit an iron off the tea? Would we be better if we just

used irons off the tea and never hit driver ever, for those of us that spray the drive? You know, angles, they're very anti-angles, if you will. So you hear all the time on the coverage that they're like, oh yeah, he really wants to favor the left side of this fairway because it gives them a much better angle in to try to make birdie. And they just dispel all of that with stats and say that if you're chasing angles, you're going to actually lose stroke, not gain strokes. And they use all of it through statistics. So we've got all that coming up in a little bit.

But first, again, I want to get to our friend Trent Ryan, who, you know, his journey is one of the more beloved, I would say publicly in the world of golf. Everybody roots for Trent. It's long been documented that Trent has never broken 100. And we think that, A, you know, your integrity to the game, your commitment to the integrity of the game hurts you in that regard because you just put everything out and you shoot 102, 104, 110 when other people maybe would have picked up and taken a six instead of an 11.

But nonetheless, your journey as a golfer, Trent, has been well documented and people have been rooting forever for you to be like, all right, I'm actually going to do it. I'm going to figure out and go after whatever it takes to break 100. And now you took really the first big step this past weekend. Yeah, me and producer Jake, we flew down south. We flew into Atlanta, Georgia, drove about an hour east. We stayed in Greensboro, but my guy, John T.T., who is now my swing coach, he's based at Eatinton. And the first thing I want to say about what was really one of the great weekends of my life,

I just, I have to shout out John Tillerie. That guy is the best, and he is the perfect fit for what we're trying to do. And before, when we were brainstorming the Breaking 100 video and who was going to be my swing coach, who was that and what was that going to look like, we went through a few options and we landed on JT and he's the perfect fit. Like him, everything that goes on at Cuscoilla, shout out to those people, shout out to that golf course who let me and Jake do whatever we wanted the whole time we were down there. And we flew down Thursday. We met up with JT for about an hour just to sort of like say hello, maybe map out a little bit about what we were going to do.

And then went back Friday early. And I say we put in about a 12 hour day and we just broke down my entire. swing. So we had talked about this last week or maybe a couple weeks ago on the podcast about was I going to go down there and it was it going to be Band-Aids just so I could break 100 really easily? Or are we going to rip out the whole foundation of the house and put in a new foundation to make me a better golfer through breaking 100 or hopefully breaking 91 day? And what we did is we built a foundation. And that takes a long time and a lot of swings. I would say all told, honestly, throughout the whole weekend, I hit less than 50 balls.

Like, we weren't hitting balls. Yeah. The way to do it, yeah. Like, when you're hitting balls, and the way he explained it to me makes a lot of sense, and I probably won't be able to repeat exactly what he said. But, like, when you hit balls, you get information that's not necessarily true about your golf swing. What you need to do is create a new golf swing, and the way that you do that is you just don't

hit balls, you just swing over and over again. And what I learned about my old golf swing is that I didn't use my legs at all. He was like, we could roll you out, you could sit in a chair, and your golf game would be exactly the same. So that was the biggest takeaway from the weekend. And basically, for the first couple hours, I was just swinging, trying to move my legs, shaking the cobwebs off these hips because these hips just have not been moving in terms of my golf game or in general. So we did that. Those hips lie, as they say.

I mean, they've been sleeping for the past 10 years. They don't do anything. So, I mean, we worked on that for a while, and I know everybody's going crazy about the bunker shot, and it was a spectacular bunker shot. If I can learn to get out of bunkers, that's going to be huge. But what we didn't show is me sculling and duffing 15 straight before the perfect one. I mean, I could go on and on about this weekend. We got a lot of footage. We're going to go through it all.

We're going to start putting episodes out. I don't know, maybe at the end of the month. but I'm very happy with what happened this weekend, and it's a very promising start. It's a lot of changes, so I'll be very curious to see if I can take what I learned and then take it to the golf course and see how that goes, because it's a lot different than, you know, I'm sitting there with John Tilleri, and he's telling me how to do these things all correctly. And then, like, I didn't play a full round when I was down there. I'm saving that for, I'm going to go out somewhere in New York and play,

because I want to do it myself, and I'm going to put it myself, and I'm going to play. put everything out. And I don't want to have any help next to me. Like, I don't want JT out there with me telling me what to do. I want to be able to do it by myself. But, I mean, Friday, what? Were you doing, like, flexibility tests first to see, like, the swing that you could have? Or were you just really doing, like, thousands of dry swings?

And he was trying to get your body in there. So it was a lot of dry swings. But it was basically to try to enable my lower half, because my lower half was dormant. There was nothing going on. And he was like, we just got to get that lower half moon because I've talked to you guys about how I feel like I have no power in my swing. Like I have this giant body. Just this huge, huge arms. Strong corn boy.

Corn boy. I weighed 14 pounds and I was born. I got these huge legs. And for whatever reason, I spit the driver 200 yards. And my irons go nowhere. My wedges go nowhere. And I was like, JT, what is going on? He's like, you're not using the most powerful part of your body.

and that is why you're not generating any sort of power. So that was the big thing that we worked on for hours on Friday. And I almost puked. I really thought that I was going to die. We put out pictures of me laying on the ground. That wasn't for show. Like at one point I was like, we just have to stop because I don't have the stabilizing muscles that I need for the golf swing

that he wants me to have. So it was just a lot of work. But I think we got an incident right here. We got a guy who's literally his ball is right there. Oh, no. Hold on. I'm trying to swim. And he has to hit over me.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Are you confident in this? Because you're just in range. On the green is, boys, I know people are looking. He just asked you for a ruling mid-podcast. He's like, am I supposed to hit right over you? He's got to rip it, too.

To go to this green over here. And I said, you know, just good luck. So if you guys, if something happens to kind of my left temple area here, you'll know the reason. Can we watch this live? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you get a hit, it'll just fall out of frame. This will be for all the YouTube viewers.

And, I mean, this guy's just lying in the shout-up. I'm going to get down here. You guys. All right, actually, tell your camera a little bit more. Your camera more. There you go. Yeah. All right.

So this guy is now approaching the ball. I'm hiding underneath the table. He has no idea that he's being live commentated on four-play golf. He's just got a hope he doesn't. Oh, he's got a nice little swing. Yeah, it's a pretty good ball. going at the left side. It's got to sit. Oh, he's in the left rough pin high, probably about 30 yards from the pin, not Terry Scholl. You're still alive, so that's the big thing.

I was hiding underneath. No one died in the making of this podcast. I didn't want to interrupt you there, Trent, but I had something happening there, you know. No, but, no, it's fine. And basically, and there's a, there's going to be a part of the video where I just, I sort of start to get it, and it's very exciting. And we, but we worked on everything. We worked on my swing. We worked on bunkers. We worked on putting. Worked on a little bit of chipping. We worked on course. management where we went out to Cuskewilla and we were we just played a couple holes and he would ask me like what would you do here and I would always say the wrong thing I mean my my my course management is a zero it's a full on zero that just does not match my game like I'm

trying to do things that are basically impossible for a guy like me and he's like that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard so we work on all that stuff and it's so it's great I'll tell you this I'm actually I'm I'm excited because you know obviously JT's the man, but it would have been kind of an easy shortcut, if you will, for him to kind of give you, you know, one or two little kind of limp dick pointers and then have you go out and post like a 97 with him coaching you all around the course and be like, boom, I did it, but that wouldn't serve you, right? That would be like, you know, give him a fish, you feed him for a day, give him a fish and pull, he feed him for life kind of thing. So we're trying to feed you for life,

Treadt out. Absolutely, and we are very much doing that. I'm still sore, and I mean, part of that is that we went out on the lake, and I know we put up some videos and stuff of that. I tried to wake surf, which was fucking impossible. I jumped off a rock, which was much better than trying to wake surf. But I'm still super sore. I wish I could show you guys. I've got battle scars. My knees are all scraped up.

My arm is scraped right here. It was a battle, and I'm very sore, but it was legitimately so much fun. Like, Lake Living might be the way to go. I don't know how much you guys know about lake living, but everybody wants to go to the coast. They want to be on a beach like Riggs. on, but if you just find these small, it's not a small lake, Lake Okanoi, Okanoi, Oconoey, Oconi, Oconi. O'Coni. I was actually waiting, hopefully, that Jake would chime in, but I don't know if you remembers either. O'coni, it's just this giant lake, and there's all these houses on it, and you take

the boat out, JT's got a great boat. It was me, his two sons who were great. We just had a great day. It was a really fun weekend all together. So this is just going to be good old, wholesome Georgia, Trent, trying to get back. better at golf content. Speaking of golf, Barstool Golf Time app, if you're not using that, you're a moron right now. You're just dumb because we've got our own app out there. The reviews are starting to pour in. I saw a bunch of people came up to me at the bar and said they picked a course in Scottsdale

based on the Barstool Golf Time app. They looked at the reviews. They're very excited afterwards to upload their own reviews. They're showing me photos that they took. They're like, I can post these in my review, right? Because I took these sick photos. I want people to see. Yep, the answer is yes.

So go download the Barstool Golf Time app. It is our app. We basically are looking at, thinking about, and putting into this app exactly what you and I and all of us on this show would want a T-Time app to be. So please go download the Barstool Golf Time app. I cannot wait to play with you, Trent, because I know that you were on the precipice of achieving greatness. I've watched it. I know that when you're in a good vibe setting that you are a better golfer, like when you're with a guy like JT and he's just like, nothing bad is going to happen here, no one's going to make fun of you, no one's going to stay. like just do your thing, you're just a very good golfer.

I think we both benefit from that a lot. So I think now when you take that mindset and you take that structure that he's now built and you apply it to something like the four-man scramble or when we play to see if you break 100, you are going to be so much better mentally, I think, about your game than anything else. Like that's the part that I'm more excited about because I know that your swing was like on the path to being better. Whenever someone corrects Trent like one or two ways, whether it's the knuckles for me, kids or or maybe like if i like the one thing that we learned at taylor may where i was like oh try

and do the abbreviated follow through like little things trent picks up on and it's like leaps and bounds better of a result uh from shot one to shot two so i mean 12 hours with a guy who coaches kevin kisner and rickie fowler and all these pros is going to do you wonders for sure and he with the abbreviated swing he's just like that's the right way to do it he we broke oh he like that oh he loved that he was like that's how you're spoken to do it because you want you you're supposed to be done after you hit the ball like that's where all the energy is supposed to go you're supposed to pop it through there makes no sense to keep going like that if you just do the abbreviated it makes you hit down on the ball which i know it makes

you do too but my guy at taylor made said that my follow-through was two to three times longer than my back swing which was just such a preposterous like he's like if i showed you the swing pat you're at like a three to a 12 which I was like man that is really tough so yeah no it's uh I'm really excited for that I can't wait to play golf like we have to we have to go golf because everyone's

gonna watch we have so much content coming out we've got Wolf Creek coming out we've got more tailor made stuff coming out Tuesday and Thursday Tuesdays I think is uh they're answering questions right some of the biggest golfers in the world Thursday we have Wolf Creek which is just a video game golf course but like everyone's gonna watch you play a lot of golf

They don't understand that what's waiting in the bowels is this new animal. Like that's just new content that hasn't even, we have months of content to come out and the new Trent won't even be seen until, I don't know, fucking August. No, it'll come out sooner than that. But yeah, the trend they see at Olympic and Torrey Pines is not the guy that's going to be in this Breaking 100 video series because that guy at Olympic and Tori, that's a broken man. That's a man who is fully broken and legitimately frustrated about his golf game. So it's almost like we got to put a disclaimer where people know I'm doing this Breaking 100 series,

but I definitely, I'm not going to be able to implement any of those things into the Olympic or the Tory video because I hadn't been to see JT. That was my point. If you're going to release them at the same time, it's just going to confuse the fuck out of people. You're watching, like people are going to think that it just didn't work with JT. They're going to watch you on Monday and then they're going to see you play Olympic, like some guys who don't even understand our schedule. And they're going to be like, well, Trent sucks still. Yeah, but they, here's people got to realize, yes, they're going to fuck that up.

People are going to be idiot. I get the same thing where it's like, I'll post a video from two ways to be a didn't you just get a swing lesson from George Gengis? Aren't you supposed to be sick now? It's like, well, I mean, no, because A, you have to, like, actually practice stuff and get better. I've, like, regurgitated these stats a ton. But you can look at, like, four different stretches in Tiger Woods career where he went a couple years where he, relatively to how he usually is, sucked. You know why? Because he was going through swing changes.

So, like, if it takes Tiger Woods a couple of years to implement swing changes, how long do you think it's going to take guys like us to actually be able to change your golf swing? It's impossible. So I'm curious, Trent, what is – and if you keep seeing me look around, it's because I've realized after that last two shot that I'm just in the landing zone, basically. Oh, yeah. I think that was a for call. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I think I have to hit pretty far, but that was just a for a call. You're just in the landing zone? Like, that's the air. I mean, it's the miss. It's way left, and I didn't really think about it. I've never played this course before. I just waltzed out here.

And then when we were doing that show, again, I looked to my left. The guy was asking for a ruling because he had to hit right over me. So he's like, should I just move this or what are we doing here? This is this tournament. But what I was going to say? I was going to ask Trent, what's your plan here for implementation, right? Because you can't, you know, contrary to what people, like, in Instagram comments say, you can't just be, like, told how to swing better and then just perfectly swing better the next day.

So what is our plan of attack here for your progression? Well, I am going to go out and try to play around this week and try to implement everything. I think there's going to be some growing pains for sure because as many good ones, as many good swings as I took with my new swing, there were also bad ones. And when I would hit balls, I'd hit a good one and then I'd hit a terrible one. So I'm very curious to see the first time out how much I'm able to implement everything. But then going forward, JT, him and I are actually going to hop on a Zoom call at some point. And he's going to teach, he's going to give me homework essentially.

Like he's going to have me buy a mirror and then he's going to have me do these things in the mirror every single day and have him try to grind and just get that swing in my head so I never ever do the old swing again. So it's going to take a lot of off the course work. It's going to take a lot of, he said that's what Kiz does. Like when he first got with Kisner, he was like, yeah, We would always, in person would be great. We'd try to build something. But then I'd give kids a ton of homework.

And it's a lot of just shadow swings in a mirror and making sure you're doing all the right things. So that's kind of going to be my future progression with the swing. And then I think we're going to probably see him at Kiowa. And we'll see him out west at Tori. And there's another ball right next to Riggs. These guys just screamed to me that they're like, you're in a very dangerous spot. So I think during the show, I just have to move to a different spot. But did he give you any?

points of like, like obviously you broke down your swing and you're funny the way you said it, like just never do that old swing ever again. But did he say, was there any piece of your swing that he was like, oh, that's a good, like, keep that. Like the way you do this is good. Or no. There's a lot of good. There's a lot of good. There's a lot of good in the swing. Like the swing doesn't look, it's not like a completely different swing. Like people will be like, oh, wow, that's like way different than before. It's really all in the bottom half that he was just like, We just got to wake that up. Everything from the waist up was pretty good.

A couple tweaks with the mechanics, but everything for the most part was pretty good. Like we started from a solid base. It was just the bottom half that I needed to get going. Did he say anything about your approach to the golf ball? One of my favorite things of Trent Daddy's golf game is how low he holds the club. It's one of those things that I just giggle all the time. Because you become this like stone statue and your hands are as extended as possible.

and you're just basically kneecap to ground. And I saw a bunch of videos of them and it seemed like he didn't change that, which I don't want him to change. That's such a iconic stance and I almost want to turn it into a logo. Did he say anything about the approach? Well, he said my posture was horrible.

You're too well for sure. Right, and I got a little. Yes. Right, and I think, like, he would give me a lot of information where there'd be the point, like I wouldn't put them all in at once. So if I was doing one thing,

I'd forget about the posture part. If he was like, make sure your right foot doesn't flare out when you're standing there, I'd focus on that and I'd forget about the posture. I think if I do the exact swing that he wants me to do, my posture is different. I'm a little more straight up and my hands aren't as low. But again, there's a lot of things moving, a lot of parts moving. I'm probably going to forget about that 90% of the time because that's not the main issue. Right.

The logo of like Trent Daddy going way low. Because, D. Daddy, I mean, not to rub it in, but. Sometimes you get so low that the heel of your club now is like the point so the club isn't flush. The club is like standing up like this. But it's so good. It's not flat to the ground. It's like pointed like this. It's a good visual.

Looks he's going to pound that. It looks like he's going to fuck the ball into the ground. Like he's just getting low into a nice fuckable stance. That's what Trent does though. But no, I'm really excited for the series. And I'm excited to see all the stuff on the lake because what a juxtaposition between your life and near. city and the life that you had that day. Like, your body was probably like, what is happening?

I'm now in a lake in Georgia, like, jumping off of a rock into water. Like, you haven't done that, probably ever? There's Lake Delhai in Iowa that we would go to. As a younger, man, I would do that. But I hadn't jumped off a rock or been in a boat in a long time. I'd tell you what, my chest is very burnt. I have a very burnt chest. So you took the top off.

That was fucking nice. Brother, brother, that's the most nervous I was all weekend. I don't care about my golf game. I don't care about breaking 100. All I could think about was, we're going to go out on this lake, and they're going to expect me to pop the top, and you just have to do it. You can't be the only guy who doesn't.

Like, I was doing the rolled-up short-sleeving for a while, but I was like, I just got to take this shirt off. And it's, you know, at some point I got to get a layer of not just complete vanilla pudding. And we're getting there now. So it was honestly, like I said, shout out to JT. Shout out to Cuskewella. I just had a really, really good time, and JT is the perfect fit for this.

We knew that going in just because we know Kevin Kisser. We've met JT before in other tournaments, but he was, I mean, we got along, like we're best friends now. It was so much fun. JT's the man. I'm moving locations to a safer spot, by the way. Okay, we don't have to be done. We don't want you to get hit.

I had a waffle house. I had Zaxby's. It was just a phenomenal trip. George is beautiful. Now with your lower or lack of lower body movement, did JT give you any eating habits? Maybe the tweak or no? No. No.

He didn't go to. He didn't go to. I know, but swing coach, hey, we want a little bit more. We'd like to see a little bit more rotation. Hey, before you go see the doctor, you don't go eat a bunch of sour patch goods. You know, you don't go to Waffle House before he's about to, like, try to do something more athletic. Saturday morning, we did do, before we did anything else, he had me do like a stretching. and warm-up routine.

That was very, very difficult. But he was throwing me around. I was on the ground. I was trying to do yoga. Like, he did things like that, but nothing nutrition-wise. I'm still going to eat like a trash bag, I think. Correct. Excited for you, Trent.

This is going to be really good. It's going to be exciting for our viewers. I know everyone's hopping on the Trent train. So watching you get more athletic will be a nice, like, viewing process. Yeah, and hopefully I can recreate that. Just like, yeah. Like Trent is athleticism and he's just going to, I guess like bringing out that athleticism that was in him. I agree.

That's the thing. It's buried. It's buried in there. I think it's about bringing out the athleticism that you know is in there. And I would say that like your ability to play as well as you have at times is very much confirming that that athleticism is in there. Because with like bad technique or just using your upper body, which is a lot of fun. fucking what I do, like being able to still like slap it around at a decent level and like win holes with scores, that's clearly, you know, there's an athlete in there.

Also, and breaking news, like, I, I'm just going to lose to Trent now. I saw a lot of tweets about it. Like, we're like not far, far off. There's like, there's a pretty big gap right now, but it's not that far to the point where Trent's getting all this help and I'm just sitting at home gaining belly fat and tit fat and like, I can't figure out anything. And then Trent all of a sudden comes along and just starts breaking night. It's like, hold on, pal.

I made me to go see you at JT. Well, we had that conversation about, like, the guys on the podcast are going to see these lessons, and they're going to want to go down to JT, and I said that I'm putting an embargo on that. I'm saying that JT is my swing coach, and he is my guy. You guys got to find your own swing coach. You can't stop me from watching the videos and just taking what he tells you. That's fine. Every viewer is going to do, and that's why this video is going to be very successful.

That's fine, but if I see you, you know, in his bay at Cuskewilla, I'm going to be upset. said, but you've got to find your own swing coach. All right. Speaking of, you know, swing coach, instruction, help, assistance, we are now joined by Scott Fawcett, who has just hopped in. He's a decade. Lurge has to go. He has to go sling drones. You can say by, Lurch. Well, I didn't want to ruin the, you know, here you are introducing this brilliant man. And I didn't want to be like, see you guys. I'm not a brilliant guy. I'm just an assistant now. But I do have to run. Sorry to not be here for the conversation, Scott. Enjoy follows.

See you, Lurge. Go get them, buddy. Sell those drones. Trent, you like to know where you're at when you're on a golf course. You have to know where you're at on a golf course. Do you like music? I love music. These are two things that Bushnell Golf, the Wingman Golf Speaker, has perfectly curated to sit inside, whether it's your golf bag or your golf cart.

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Just Bushmel. No. Shnell golf. Trent, Bushnell golf. All right, I just ate a prosciutto sandwich. So we're talking to the same mic right now. It may get a little smelly of Italian meat. So, Scott, you know, I'd say a lot of our listeners got their first introduction to sort of what you do to a degree indirectly through Will's Alatoris last week.

But, you know, you're very into the statistical approach to the game using stats to ultimately decide core stratified. strategy, shot strategy. You know, welcome to the show. We're excited to have you. And I'm curious, you know, right out of the gate to hear your thoughts just on, on us in general and anything you may know about our golf games. I know absolutely nothing. I know you're supposed to maybe research the people who you are coming on with,

but I'm so busy fighting my own Twitter wars. I don't have time to come up for air and see what everyone else is up to typically. So I really don't know. I know you stayed at Pinehurst for like 60 days. I think I saw you when you were going out of the air. But aside from that, I don't know much. That said, are you on the verge of working 80? Or is that someone just totally BSing?

You know, I'm a kind of golfer that every time I go out, the goal is to break 80, and I'd probably achieve it maybe 25% of the time, 20% of the time, I would say. So you've broken 80 then? I've broken 80. So, you know, we're all kind of different, I would say. I'm, you know, I think on the gen app, my average for the year is like 82 or something. Frankie's like a 9 or a 10, so he's averaging probably a little more like mid-80s.

And then Trent is trying to break 100. And he actually just went down with John Tilleri in George over this past weekend, which we were just discussing. And he's starting to make a very concert effort to improve his golf game and try to break 100 for the first time. Perfect. Yeah, I know I love Tilleri. He's a great guy and definitely a fun guy to hang out with.

So you love Well, I was just going to say you love the mud. Like you just mentioned Twitter. Like you love being in the mud on Twitter. I don't. I just can't stay out of it. Wait. I mean, that's, see, I know nothing about your Twitter following.

Are you like a Twitter war guy? I'm a guy that is fairly confident in what I teach. To put it lightly, it really is just math at the end of the day. I do have a pretty strong background in math. I've played professional golf. I've played a lot of and studied a lot of pretty high. high level poker. And really, it's just combining all of that together. But really, it's also combining that I've failed as a professional. I mean, I used to travel Chad Campbell and Chris Riley,

a couple of Future Rider Cup guys. And whenever I'd watch them, I'm like, I feel like I'm as good as them. I can't figure out why. I mean, yes, I won two times on the Hooters tour and other tours except for the ones you actually want to win on. But I used to always watch me. I was like, well, I'm a hothead. And that was my default thing is I just, I never got it. And, you know, I'm 47. I grew up playing golf in Texas, but I never played. I played in one age, AG in my life. I never really specialized in golf until I got to college. So I just was really super inexperienced. And it's funny because looking back at it all, I do believe that the reason I didn't make it is because I just didn't understand course management. And I try to give people

a little, you know, a little gravity sometimes. If golf is the only sport in the, you know, in the world that's not played on a uniform field of competition, it's, it's not taught on the field of competition. Like, everything about this game has really set up for failure you know coaches are just trying to get you to hit the ball better and then it's like a pat on the ass and good luck it'd be like somebody just working on your jump shot and then just saying like well go figure out how to play basketball like but you can shoot it now and it's strategy in golf seems for some reason a little more abstract than strategy you know of sports because you're running actual plays but just as xalotores was telling you guys there is a lot of strategy going on and

it pretty is pretty cool to go back into some of the podcast not really podcast but stuff that i did with Delatorce before, you know, about 15 months ago, 14 months ago, we're sitting here talking about. Here's what we're working on. We're talking about that par five aggression. You know, he's, he's not getting it past the hole in par five's enough and two. He's between the three wood and the hybrid. He's trying to float something in there and just all kinds of dumb stuff as postage. Like, just get it up and near the green. And as he said on the podcast with you guys, he actually wanted making more eagles when he stopped trying to make eagles. And that's, the game is just so counterintuitive, especially at y'all's level, which, you know,

Riggs and Frankie, you guys are starting to get the skills together to be good players, but you still are, you know, functionally illiterate with the actual strategy of the game because it's just not very obvious. And then you watch TV and, you know, I respect guys like Nobelo and Brandl and a number of the other, you know, announcers who have actually come to my seminars and who call me pretty often about different situations. And then you'll get other announcers that are just like, wow, what an aggressive shot. Amazing.

He would take that shot on in this situation. And as Will said, it's like, no. that's not what I was trying to do and just really painting that picture for more people to understand is really what you know makes your scores plummet. Yeah, it's very, it's very interesting to me because

the nature of what you do, especially on somewhere like Twitter, you're always going to have a like smartest kid in the class kind of vibe where people are going to a little bit be like yeah, fuck this guy. Like he's just because it's like he thinks he's smarter than everybody else. So I find you getting into those types of debates

on, Twitter because you're coming at it, like you said, with like stats and numbers, and you don't think that you're right. Like, you know that you're right in your, in your mind with the numbers. And when you, when you're getting into that with somebody, right? And especially in a game that's, that touts itself so much with artistry and kind of, you know, taking the artistic approach and thinking your way through and like choosing all the sudden when to hit this heroic aggressive shot, you know, when in your mind, you're like, no, there's actually never a time to like go outside of the statistical more probability to make a lower score here, you should just always

100% of the time do that. It always is, again, going to kind of conflict with a lot of, to it. I see you getting into it. My guy, Colt knows a good amount, and I always laugh, and I always start chirping Colt, and I usually want to jump in there and be like, yeah, you're right. Like, Colts just not smart enough for this argument and try to roast them, but it's, I don't think, right, like a lot of it doesn't come from a malicious place. It comes very much from kind of taking a lot of the, you know, artistry is kind of overused, but people do want to show up to a T and think, like, you know what, this, this actually suits my eye for a three wood more than a driver. They don't want to look at, like, spreadsheets, they just kind of want to approach it that way.

And I think that when you're trying to take that out of it for a lot of people, I get that it's hard for them to accept that. Well, kind of what you're saying there is, and I'll get it from players all the time. And they'll be like, you know, I'm just really more of a lot of a lot of people. field player. I'm like, no, you're just saying you don't want to put the work in to figure out what the hell I'm talking about. There's the feel like I can feel a four when I'm sitting on 17 and blackjack. And there's a really good chance I'm going to get a four or less. That doesn't mean you hit. And really it's, you know, to what you're kind of saying there, I, you know, again,

limited characters on Twitter makes, you know, making a concise point, you can't multi-tweet. Once you've gone to two or three tweets, you've lost the audience. So I do try to condense it. And sometimes, okay, well, I'm just going to piss you off by being. blunt here, but blunt is the only way to be concise. And at the end of the day, I've known for seven years, I'm right, and it's just a matter of once everybody else will catch up. And they're finally doing that. I do think it's hilarious that a couple of the biggest stories in golf in the last, shoot, I'd even say three stories now. Bryson Deschambeau with the distance and everything. He was the second player that I worked with after Zalotoros. And so I would say Zalotoros and Bryson are two of the

biggest stories in golf. And I would even say Stuart Sink is a third. And Stuart bought the app out of the app store. And the first place he used it was in Napa last year when he won. And it's just hilarious to here's a guy that's my age that has won a major. And then he didn't win for 11 years on the PGA tour. And now he's won like two of his last 15 starts. He's like just getting a system in place to where we're removing all of the emotional energy baggage of trying to make decisions. man, we've got a system, you know, very simple, you know, five or six step process that takes in everything into account. And after that, you just kind of move on. I'm sure you guys have, you know, some gambling type stuff in your podcast.

And where people really get themselves wrong is they start trying to apply game theory to golf. And golf being the only sport that you don't play defense on. You can't impact your opponents play in a non-chicken shit way. Obviously, you can play head games and stuff like that. but I'm okay, if you're doing that, then we're just not friends to begin with. So there's nothing you can do that's nice to impact. I shouldn't say that if you're doing that on your Friday, Wolfkin, then I'm all for that.

But you're not going to impact your opponents play on PG to or without getting a batterer up really quick. And taking the fact, again, that you don't have a shared ball. You don't even have a mutual clock. Everybody's game expires at different times. Like, you just don't ever know the score in any real concrete fashion. And so I do actually say to people like, I'm sure there's some spots where you can pick a game theory spot. Hadecki on 15 on Sunday, he should probably be laying that up because of game theory, because of the situation he's in at that moment. But as Will, you know, when I talked to

Zalotaur's after the final round, he's like, I mean, I had an idea. I saw him hit in the water on 15, but I really didn't know where anybody stood. There's not as many leaderboards. Hadecki's not in any different situation out there in the middle of 15 fairway. He might only think that he's got a two-shot leader. Certainly not going to just trust the guy in the crowd that's telling you got a four-shot lead, oh, cool, I'll just lay up then, and you get in your one back. So there's just a lot of things in golf that are just hard. And as a result, I do think that once you start playing again, like lack of better of saying, but the decade way, the proper course management strategy, psychology, patients, discipline way, dude, it just becomes

so much easier and you're so much less mental quickly. So talk me through a real, like, talk me through real quick, just talk me through a real example, right? So far, it's all come off as relatively abstract. It's just like theory and stats. Talk me through like a real example of where decade and what you do influences and changes strategy and an approach that will benefit a player. Well, I mean, approach shot strategy, I think, is, you know, T-shot strategy is extremely generic from player to player.

Shot patterns just are a certain size. The architecture, of course, just is what it is. When people always want to talk about hunting angles or whatever, like, there's just nowhere that exists that's 140 yards wide on every single hole. So concretely, what I teach is the traditional course management, like playing lesson advice would say, you know, where's the right place to miss it? And I think that's really a bit of like a non-sequitur. It doesn't actually make sense because the right place to miss it, 98% of the time, is somewhere towards the middle of the green. And I know

that whenever I was in my 20s playing professionally and you got Tiger out there talking about, well, I missed it in the right spot, I literally thought, as did many people, mid-swing, He'd be like, swing doesn't feel good. I'll just go ahead and guide it over there to the right spot. It's like, well, if you can do that, why would you just fix the swing, mid-swing, and just guide it right to the hole? It's just you have this shotgun, you know, a shot pattern. And so really, rather than where's the right place to miss it,

you really need to be asking yourself, how much do I not want to be short-sighted? So number 12 at a gust in the final round. The pin's always stuffed over there on the right. You really don't want to be short-sided on that hole. So what we do at decade is we take this baseline number. So number 15 is playing 145 or 50 yards that day. We have this baseline number, which is how far we're aiming from the edge of the green for starters, which at that distance is nine yards.

And then a water hazard is three extra yards. So I can tell you that on number 12 at Augusta, the mathematically correct target is basically 12 or 13-ish yards from the right edge of the green, which puts it just inside the bunker. We're talking directionally. And then what's funny is your shot pattern as a right-handed player, it tends to tilt long left to short right.

So if you pull it, it's going, I don't care if you're playing a fader or draw. If you pull it, it's going further on the left side. And I don't care if you're playing a fader or draw, the right side of your shot pattern is where you just left the face open a little bit more than you intended. So you've got a short right. Number 12 and 13 at Augusta are both really challenging holes

for right-handed players because the green's tilting short left to long right. And so what's funny is you get a guy like Steve on that hole. And he's, you know, he's got a four-shot lead and he's just like, I felt so comfortable over it. I was just going to try to push it by the pin. Well, that pin is actually outside of the long right portion of your shot pattern based on the club you've got to hit. Like the shot he's trying to hit actually doesn't exist. And you get a guy like Molinari, same, you know, a couple years later, you know, I've done a lot of work with his brother Eduardo, and we've talked about it some, like at least Frankie was hitting it at it. Like, at least he chose the right club to go right at it.

Still a terrible decision, but it had a chance. Speets, he's just like taking a nine iron and I'm going to push it an extra 10 yards long right. That's never going to happen. And that's what I try to get to players, you know, to your question of what's, you know, some people who take away is we're going to get you a small concrete target, which is just inside the right edge of the front bunker. And then I want you to hit it as good as you can and just try.

trust you're actually not going to hit it there. And that's most likely not going to hit it there. And now you're setting variance up, which is essentially just the deck of cards in Blackjack. In theory, the better you are, the more loaded the deck is in your favor. But you still have kings and queens in there that can bust you at absolutely any given moment. And the key is you don't know when that card is coming.

I don't care how much the deck is set in your favor. It can still get you, which again is why, you know, like the World Series of Poker's I'm like the best players shockingly keep on winning money in these things. It's not luck. And that's the way golf works. You know, just to finish off that idea because a lot of times people think, well, I'm not as good. I'm, you know, I'm a seven handicapped. Well, would I take you on number seven at Augusta or excuse me, number 12 at Augusta

and make you an extra five yards more conservative? Now you're just going to put balls in the long bushes. Again, this is back to courses being designed somewhat generically, even though they're all different. I can't just take a worse player and make them more conservative and typically not screw their score up just as much as firing right at it. So it really is, it's just not an easy question to answer succinctly, obviously, but it really is about just setting the odds up in your favor. Right, I was going to say, like, how easy is this to implement for just an average

everyday golfer, right? Like when I step up there, I just played this weekend, and I ripped, I pulled out a hybrid on a 320 par four. because I don't want to leave myself a 40-yard wed shot because I'll just always chunk it or blade it. So I did a little bit of course management in my head. Like I'm going to leave myself a 100-yard shot where I feel more comfortable. And everyone on the T-box is like, look at this guy. He's going, watch out course record.

Here we go. And like I looked like an asshole. But like- But then you hit the hybrid in the trees, you said. I did put one in the trees. So my question is like, that's why it's like, well, why am I doing this? I'm just a shitty golfer. Why should I think that way?

Why don't I just grip it and rip it? and just hit it up by the green. Like, what is the benefit for the average golfer to try and learn this? First of all, I would say we'd have to actually get some data. Are you actually that bad from 40 yards? Some people really are. Certainly possible. I know that typically you're going to be better from 40 than you are from 100.

That is true for basically everyone. The real key is you hit what feels like an awful shot from 40. And you think, well, I could have done that from 120. Well, no, if you go to Will, Zaltors, in the final round of August. He hits driver up there short of three, and then he hits a terrible pitch shot to like 25 feet long. But you know what? He was putting.

Hideki and Justin Rose laid up, and then they shipped it long by like 15 yards, and they're just absolutely dead. So yes, you probably, you can hit a really bad pitch shot, but it will still typically be better than your bad wed shot from further back. And again, a lot of this goes back to just the idea. I always start off my seminar in the app and everything, but stop trying to make. birdies. It's just hilarious to me on that hole specifically. Everyone's like, I mean, to get a look at three, it's going to be better to be coming in with spin and blah, blah, blah. The average score on the final round on three was four point two. If I told you, I just want you to make a four on this hole and you'll pick up point two shots. Would you rather do that from

35 yards or from 110? Oh, well, shit, I can pitch it on the green and two put it for four. Awesome. Let's do that then. And then you just let the variance within your shot pattern. And Will definitely caught that shot either a little bit skinny or something because it definitely went, it flew way. I doubt he just hit it way too hard. That would just be a shot that if he'd actually just mishit it a little bit fat, then that shot barely carries on the fringe and releases up to like four feet. But it's a mishit similar to a shot on 17 when he stuffed it. And people are like, wow, I was just attacking the flags. Like, no, I was aiming 13 feet left of that.

And just really understanding you're just doing that on every single. shot. And it really is, your question is, how hard is this to do? It's extremely hard to do. That's what they don't hand out millions of dollars in scratch handicaps to just anybody. But it is, I mean, I hate, I feel super salesy saying, but it is the absolute cheat codes to shooting lower scores for anyone. I mean, even I get guys that's like, well, I shoot 100. Well, just seeing how a professional golfer thinks can't make you worse. I mean, odds are you're going to see something a little bit. different. And honestly, lots of times, it's just recognizing that in the trees, once they have to

pitch out, they're making bogey 80 plus percent of the time. And yet here we've got Jordan Spieth in great shape on number nine on Thursday. First round of the Masters. And he's trying a shot that I'm like, this is the dumb shot I've ever seen. He has no chance of carrying this ball far enough to keep it under the trees because he's in the right trees downhill. The pine trees that are 50 yards in front of them are actually like below his eye line, he can't carry this hitting it down far enough to actually run it up the green. What's the point? And then he nails the train and makes triple. I mean, it's just too early in a golf tournament to make a triple like that. So it's really hard to do because everybody wants to shoot their career around and win every day. And it's just not how the game works,

unfortunately. Oh, boy, Trent, do you like to cook your own food and go out to the grocery store and make all the decisions. It's legitimately my least favorite part of living in New York City. I can't cook. When I'm at the grocery store, I'm going up and down these aisles. I don't know what I'm looking for. I have no idea what to buy. I don't know how much to buy.

And then if I get the stuff home, I don't know how to put it all together in a way that's going to be delicious for me to eat. So it's just a nightmare every time I go to the grocery store. Especially after a long day on the golf course, the last thing you're going to be thinking about is cooking a healthy meal. So what do you do? You get some takeout. You go through the drive-thru.

We've done this. Every time. And at the end of the night, you're like, why the hell did I eat like a trash bag? The reason is because we didn't have something called trifecta. Trifecta makes eating healthy not suck. All of Trifecta's meals are backed by nutrition science and tastes great, making it easy to get into the best shape of your life, which is something that you and I are both actively trying to do. We are eating badly, so we need something. We need something in our lives that are just going to be like, hey, this is healthy.

this is backed by nutrition scientists that are going to say this is what you should be eating and we're going to have it ready for you all you have to do is throw it in the microwave and it's done them saying makes eating healthy not suck i'm sold that should actually be their tagline because eating healthy does suck and that's why you always resort to eating like a trash bag your taco bell your McDonald's but they make it trifecta so it's a good delicious meal while it's also healthy and you don't have to do all the preparation work it's phenomenal so you're going to shop meal plans with trifecta and you're going to get 40% off with code 4. F-O-R-E, 40% off. I don't know if I can, if I can reiterate that any clearer. You understand what I'm saying? 40% you're saying. 40%. There's

no money to be made here, I don't think, from trifecta. It's from the trifecta team. I've often said during these reads. I think we need to have a conversation with these people because 40% off is just a little bit too much. Right. Like how are you still surviving as a company if you're giving people 40% off? But they're doing it. It's convenient. It saves time rather than having to spend hours meal prepping every week. You're going to stick to nutritional goals. Their meals have more macro, have more precise macros that you need to gain and lose weight. I'm sorry, need to gain and lose weight and meet their physical goals. So they're actually doing things like for me, if I want to pump up some weight, I have some protein in there. They have you covered from

A to Z when it comes to this stuff. It is perfect for you. I have it all stocked in my freezer at home and that's literally what I go to. Like I'm done going to the McDonald's and the Taco Bells. Like I legitimately come home, I throw this in the freezer, in the microwave, and it's ready within 30 seconds. It's the easiest thing of all time. So remember, go to shop meal plans and get 40% off with code 4. Try Fecta, try it, you will be hooked. You'd be amazing on a broadcast.

You would be so good. Someone saying about Jordan Speed being like, this is the dumbest possible thing you could do, would be so good for TV. They'll never let you anywhere near a TV that's, you know, a mic that's connected to TV, but it would be amazing. I actually agree with you because this is where I come into this different than most people understand. A lot of people think that I created this after caddying for Will. I went back and played professional golf again in my mid-30s for fun for a few years. And then the strokes gained statistics and data started coming out in 2013.

I did all this math. I got my amateur status back again in 2013. And I did all this just for my own game in an attempt to win the U.S. Midam to play in the Masters. And only because of an elbow injury did I, you know, Will's just a junior golf at my home course. That's the only reason that I went and caddied for him. But I started an electricity company 20 years ago now that, you know, that's where I got pretty lucky and made a decent amount of money to where I don't really care what people think of me on Twitter. I don't really give a shit if you buy my app ever or not. It's not going to change $100 from anyone's not going to change my life one bit to help you shoot some lower scores.

but I really couldn't care less if you buy it or not. I hope you do. I'm not going to change my life. And taking that attitude to Twitter, because people expect you to bow down and like, let's just, again, be mad at me. Unfollow me. I could not care less.

Blue Stagnar, my main data guy, it's comical how much he's lapping me in followers because he doesn't piss people off. He just provides good stuff. I get unfollowed by so many people that he's lapping me in followers. And I'm like, I don't care.

I assume if you're going to unfollow me because you get upset that I'm blunt, you probably weren't going to buy my app anyways. I don't really care if you fall. Move on. I, and I like that, right? I think that's great.

Like, it's good for golf. It's a big part of, like, why we've been relatively successful is just because, like, we speak our opinion and we don't really give a fuck. And ultimately, it's resonated with people.

I do think on the broadcast, right, like there's a protection, there's like a protectionist thing going on to protect the players, protect the game. I do think, like, a lot of the mud that you get into, to that I referenced earlier comes from the broadcast because, you know, they just say stuff

that you statistically know is dumb or incorrect and you have to obviously call them out because that's what you do. And so you get into it that way, which I love. I think it's great. I also like, I respect them because guess what? They're like when you're on TV talking for five hours straight or something, you're probably going to say some dumb shit. We say dumb shit on the podcast all the time. One thing that came up at Augusta, a little bit I noticed for the first time this year. And then I really noticed it. We haven't talked about. talked about Rory yet at all on the show, but Rory obviously came out, one for the first time in a year and six months and six days, I believe was the stat. He looked like shit for most of the

year, took some time, grinded, came out Wells Fargo, Quail Hollow, where he's won a couple times before, had a great performance and won the golf tournament. And one thing that really stuck out was I think it was after Thursday's round maybe where, you know, he said that I'm just exclusively hitting a cut down. He talked a little bit about the technology and the drivers and just said, you know, I played a high sling and draw for a long time, but with the technology now, like, it just cuts. That's just what it does. So I'm playing that. He said, take that traditionalist because people have spoken forever about you got to be able to shape the ball both ways. And the reason I brought up Augusta is because I remember I think it was JT a little bit,

and I believe it was Moracow a little bit that were just saying, actually a lot of these holes, like, you're better off to just play your go-to cut than you are to try to find some crazy draw. So for you, you know, a lot of people are kind of being like, hey, you know, like Scotty, here we go, that's your guy now. Like, why is somebody like you excited to hear somebody like Rory say, I'm just playing exclusively a cut off the T now? So, you know, I played professionally, like I say, through 2001. And then I started playing a lot of poker.

And I met Chris Como in an illegal card room in 2003 here in Dallas. We actually were friends for a couple years before finally like, what do you do for living? He's like, I teach golf. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. I play professional golf. It had never come up. And we start becoming friends.

And that's when I learned modern. Modern ball flight statistics for the first time, just understanding actual ball flights. And number five here at Craig Ranch, where they're playing the PGA Tour event this week, Chris was always trying to get me to hit the ball both ways. I was like, man, I like fading it more. And especially this whole number five,

it's a tight-ish par five. And when I miss it, I'm going to leave it outright. And that's just a hazard every single time. And it's literally like 15 or 20 percent of the time when you're trying to work at both ways, you're going to double cross it. 15 or 20 percent of the time is kind of the number that I've found. And you just can't have that kind of a miss miss that can just pop up because now, okay, I like playing a fade.

And now to hit a draw, I'm going to start it further right. And now I'm hitting a block cut. Like your miss is literally just off the planet. And so if you've got a dog leg where, you know, a fade just doesn't work. So number 10 at Augusta, yes, the ball has to be moving from right to left there. It's honestly why lefties have had more success there than, you know, disproportionate amount of success. but as a right-handed player, you can put the ball back in your stance. I mean, literally, I'm talking like middle of your stance and just take your normal swing

and the ball position moves your path to the right, which will create this just scalding draw. And I really am agnostic. I don't care if you play a fade or a draw with the driver. I just want it to be one of them. And I've been preaching this for a long time. Guys like Claude and Butch Harmon, some of the greatest instructors of history of game, This is what they've been preaching for a long time. I have been shouting it with the loudest megaphone,

like Claude and Butch that don't really want to get in the fray on Twitter. I've got this one guy. I won't throw him under the bus here. Michael Finney. He's just an asshole. And he is one of the new move, just biomech guys. And he's, you know, he's actually not an asshole. He's a nice guy, but he's really passionate about what he teaches.

And for whatever reason... You definitely think he's an asshole, but he's actually... He's a pretty... I mean, he's a well-intentioned guy. But there's a point when it's like, dude, we've been having this argument for five years. You're not changing my opinion. And the best players in the world just keep saying this is what I'm doing. And now we've got another one saying at Rory.

Like, it's just really hard to work the driver both ways. It's the longest club being swung the fastest with the flattest face in the entire bag. I just need you to get really good at doing one thing over and over and over with it. And if it doesn't happen to work on that whole, then go hit a three wood, hit an iron, hit something else. But just trying to step up and hit that draw with the driver. And again, I don't care whichever way you do it. But having Rory say that, take that traditionalist, I will say I'm probably,

even though I haven't listened to a whole lot of Barlster's sorts, I'm probably I don't watch any sports. Like it's not that I don't like Barcelona. I literally don't watch sports. I just don't have time. What does that even mean? What are you doing all day? Like you're like, I don't know.

rounded by number you have a watch sports like you don't like I don't know like who lebron james is like you don't like i know who lebron james is i couldn't name you a single player on any one of dallas's teams isn't that incredible you do numbers that's what you do numbers and electricity i'm six one and two ten like i'm i'm an athlete

and i don't watch athletes i literally just i don't know i just don't care i really don't Yeah, it's a shocking thing when people hear that I mean, I played football, basketball, baseball, everything growing up, I just I don't know, I just don't really care To watch TV, do you watch movies, like how do you get away from numbers? Do you do anything? I'm trying to think.

This is insane. What's the last movie you saw? This is like preposterous. I have no idea. What are you doing? Are you even a human being or are you a robot? Like, you have no emotions, you have no personality? 24 hours in a day.

24 hours in a day. How are you getting through these 24 hours? People argue on Twitter all day. Yeah, true. No, that'll do it. If you get sucked into Twitter, that'll eat up eight hours before you know it. Easily.

I had elbow surgery a few months ago. Does that count for anything? Okay. We're feeling time. It's unbelievable. Again, I truly, I enjoyed everything through being about 25, and then I just finally got exhausted with it.

and I just checked out of all things sports. And finally got to where I would watch a couple of things. And then finally I was like, I haven't actually intentionally watched sports in at least 10 years. You're one of a kind, my man. One of a kind. I mean, more power to you. I'd say you have more time for other things,

but you don't do anything else either. So I do. I mean, again, like, it's just interesting. I definitely pretty busy with work. I've always worked a decent amount. But I like playing a lot of golf whenever I'm actually healthy. I just don't get up to it very much. It's, so, you know, it's interesting to hear you bring up Butch as well because, you know,

we had him on the show a couple months ago. One of the biggest interviews we've ever done, and he's telling stories and talking through, obviously all the different number one, you know, players in the world that he's worked with. And he told the story that I'm sure you know and have heard many times about basically trying to convince Dustin Johnson to just commit to the fade. And once he did, he became the number one ranked player in the world. He's won a Masters in the U.S. Open. and the rest is kind of history.

So it's very interesting to hear you say that. And I think, too, it's very, you know, as an amateur golfer, I think, you know, we don't have the time to go in and try to hit all kinds of different shots. And Tiger would go in his warmups and hit the nine shots, hydro, all that stuff. Like, I think it makes it so simple and to hear it backed up by stats,

like every one of us should just learn one ball flight that we could just do. And even if we don't do it that great, it's always going to fly, you know, left to right or right to left. And if you could just hit that all of the time and eliminate one side of the golf course, like you could just play pretty damn consistent golf. But again, see, but even like right there, there's not very many cliches that I'm trying to come in and destroy, like, just for the fun of it.

But the idea of eliminating one side of the course, what you actually are eliminating is the double cross. So when you hear the great old players that Duvalls and whatnot to the world where they're like, you can have eliminated the left side. No, the best drivers, they still, if the lake's on the right, their shot tends to go left. So it's really that you've eliminated the double cross, which is done by hitting one shape and one shape only. And, you know, back to kind of where we start, I was trying to figure out where we, before I just made everyone's head explore that I don't listen to sports, it's what I was talking about with Como at Craig Ranch. Just this one hole, I'm like, Chris, this hole, I don't know how to play because mine misses off the planet here.

And the math of it, like, and I hadn't even done the decade expected, you know, expected value math yet. But I'm like, there's just no way I can have it in the hazard here this much. when I could just stand up and peel a cut all day long. And then it was only, you know, I entered Q school in 2008 as a 35-year-old amateur, kind of is on a bet. I got through all four stages. So I went back and played like part-time professional golf for a few years. And it just really started dawning on me then,

especially as a guy who was playing professional golf while also being the CEO of an electricity company, while also having a newborn at home. I'm not very good at, I don't have enough time to get good at all these shots. I'm just going to do one thing and just, do it over and over and over again. And my handicap, like, it dropped from only being able, from becoming less, you know, functional, you know, just becoming one dimensional. And it is comical now. I literally quit my country club over four years ago. I do not play golf at all. And my handicap in the last, last two summers of playing USGA and TXGA events is plus five,

only by, I just, I can lag putt put pretty well, and I can only cut the driver. I really don't do anything else very well. And I'm pretty competitive. You're still on a national amateur level, you know, and that's without even, like I say, I'm not even a member to country club. I literally don't play golf. And I just think it's from making the game super easy. Yeah, I'm just, I'm so curious how you think you could or your methods could improve,

you know, the scores of a 12 handicap, right? Like what, because I know you say, like, if I just caddied for this person, I'd get them down to, like, a five. I think I've heard you kind of talk about that. You know, what is that? Is that literally just, like, changing your aiming point because you know the dispersion kind of area and then just like, it's that simple? 100%. I saw it. It is.

It's just by understanding. We would, if I, again, it's not that I would get anyone to a five. It's that I could cut about five shots off most anyone whose handicap is over about seven or eight. like literally overnight. If I were in a caddy for you tomorrow, I'd say, hey, let's show up an hour early. We'd hit some shots on the range. I would just say, just hit driver.

I don't even care what shape it is. Just hit driver, and I would just see what just happens to come off of your club. And then I would say, let's try this a time or two and try that a time or two. And then we'd go over and I would work on your, we would do a speed drill on the putting green for about 15 minutes. And then just by telling you, by just picking concrete, small specific targets. It's the shooter's mentality of aim small, miss small, but it's aim small miss big.

I want you to try to aim it here. And then trust me, it could go almost anywhere in relation to that target. But from there, we're going to just plot our way around. And then it's going to be entirely about focusing on your speed, get out of, you know, just being totally line conscious or line focused on putts. And you just would be stunned at how much your scoring average will drop. drop just by having a clear plan of attack, which, and this is what's funny to me, and I get it all the time from, like, college players and even PGA tour players who they'll look at Zalotoros

and, you know, obviously I've been flying this banner for six years now. And they're like, well, of course he can do it. He's one of the best strikers on the planet. And I'm like, so you're admitting you're worse, so you think you should play with less of a plan or more aggressively? Like, it makes no sense. You're worse, so you have to play more aggressive? Like, well, that's not going to pan out. Well, but in poker, in theory, if I'm worse than you, I can play really aggressive and, like, maniacal to a certain extent because I'm impacting your player. You're like, what the hell is this guy doing again? You can confuse that player because I'm specifically impacting your decision-making process. That doesn't happen in golf. So I just go out and go

about my own business and not have to worry about what any else is doing. We are just playing the golf course. Like, that cliche is correct, technically, the position on the leader, board. And, you know, and I know Will was talking about on your podcast like, you know, hey, there's a point where, you know, maybe I do need to get a little more aggressive and start trying to make something happen to win. But notice he said there might be, but he didn't actually give a concrete example of where he did something. He's really just trying to like, somewhat be non, you know, close ended like I am where it's like, no, there's no point or place where you would do something different than the optimal strategy. And what I would say is, is because I understand, winning is important. But at the end of the day, there's the top 150. Top 200 is important on the money list. Top 150 keeps your card to some extent. Top 125 really keeps your card. Top 70 is some invitationals. Top 50s in the Masters. Top 30s in the Tour Championship. Top 10 in the FedEx Cup is usually a giant bonus from your manufacturers. Like, I get it. Winning matters. But in golf, you win so rare. I just don't think that it can be the goal.

and it's the most super cliche sports cliche ever, but process will give you whatever results your ability deserves. I can't guarantee you're going to win any specific week. Austin Smotherman yesterday's winning on the corn fairy tour. I was texting with him earlier. He sat through the seminar that I did at SMU with Deschambeau. And, you know, here he is a couple of weeks later. A couple years later winning on the corn fairy tour.

And he's like, you know, I was probably a Zalotaurus-like ball-striking week. And everything I just kept it right. I think the exact text was I just didn't really get it in trouble. I kept everything right in front of me for 72 straight holes and I hit it great. That's what you're waiting for. And this just isn't tennis. If I'm playing you in tennis and I'm better than you, I'm probably going to beat you. If your name's not, you know, Federer Nadal or Yokevich, you probably haven't won a major in the last 20 years.

That's just not how it works in golf. And as a result, you just have to play patient, disciplined golf and get out of the results game. Yeah, it's amazing. You know, a lot of the rounds that we've watched. of Tiger and I think it was during when we were chatting with Will that I brought this up. But you know, I remember so many times I've watched rounds of Tiger and been frustrated at how conservative and just like non-magical some of the rounds are when he just plots it around and he hits it to the fat part of the green or he misses it, you know, left when there's a right pin and he gets

it up and down and he doesn't make really any doubles and he keeps us up in the tournament and all a sudden, you know, on Friday he has a stretch where he's six under through, you know, eight holes and now he's near the lead. And I've said the same thing about, like, watching Tom Brady. Like, there's so many days. And I lived in Boston for like eight or nine years where I had to go to watch every Pats game with my buddies. And like in the first quarter, second quarter, third, like Brady's throwing it away a lot. He's not making mistakes. He's not really making much magic. But guess what? At the fourth quarter, they're in the game. And then that last two minute drive, you know, he's more clutched to everybody else. He makes one or two passes that win the game. And he's a hero. But for fucking three and a half hours, your watch are being like, this guy, this is all this guy's going to do. So it makes sense, you know, kind of backtracking now and looking at some of the more iconic, like, sports figures of our time and watching them because you only cling to, like, the huge moments, right? Where they did something magical, but you don't think about all of the 90 or 95% of the time where they just kind of did, you know, unamazing things to keep themselves in that position and had a chance.

and that, again, is kind of uninspiring, conservative, whatever you want to call it. But as you clearly are touting all the time, statistically, it works. Well, and if you go back to Tigers back nine in 2019, we didn't get a huge fist pump or any sort of an eruption because, like, it was the most textbook perfect round of golf. I shouldn't even just say the back nine. Go all the way back to, like, number eight. He was between like a five wood and a three wood or a five wood in a long iron or something like that. And he had, I think, the long iron out first from the trees right on eight. And he went

back and got the five wood and just smoked it long because that's just, if you think in 3D, this is exactly what Zellatoris was talking about like in par five strategy regression, getting past it. That, if you think of like a bend diagram from a satellite view, his five wood has a vent diagram portion of it, the short portion that's going to be exactly whole high to the back pin on eight. But the long stuff is a much easier up and down. If we take a little bit of the same thing with our three iron. He has a little bit that's going to overlap with the back pin also, but it's the perfect.

It's the long portion. But the short part of that shot pattern is way worse than the long shot pattern of the other shot. And that's where it's kind of hard to think in this abstract bend diagram. It's not like your clubs don't overlap perfectly. There's a little bit of overlap, you know, between your seven and eight, your eight and nine all the way through. And you've got to think in those little bend diagrams, which club fits both. And what's hard is, I'm going to take Tiger.

I'm going to take this five wood. And I'm going to hit it. And I know that if I hit it good, I'm going into the crowd long. But odds are I'm going to miss hit it slightly. And then just unfortunately, he didn't miss hit it slightly, but he left it in a better spot. Now you go around that entire back nine. And he just kept it in the right place just for basically for the last 13, 14 holes of that golf term. And he added up.

And it's like, yeah, he played one of the best rounds of the day. And you're just right there. hanging around and constantly in it. And it really is at the end of the day that's simple, but it's so hard to do. That's when Will made the put on nine on Sunday, I legitimately thought he was going to win because I'm like, we've discussed this back nine a thousand times. There's a video in the decade ad showing how Tiger played it. Like we, I know Will's going to go do this correctly on the back night. He's not going to let the moment get the best of his decision making. And it was just crazy to watch him actually pull it off. And, you know, obviously

Hadeki had to make a mess of 15 for it to be close. But at the end of the day, I tweeted in the middle of 17th Fairway, I'm like, this is the most over, not close to over golf tournament there's ever been. Like there was no doubt Hadeki was going to win it. But there was a few minutes there where it felt like there was no chance Hadeki was going to win it. I don't know why. It was crazy. When that ball went in the water, and immediately you could see his face actually go,

okay, I think, okay, I think I could actually love it. out and three. I guarantee he was in and two out and three. And I'm dropping lung. That ship shots part. In and four out and five. Oh, that's a yellow hazard. Now I'm back out in the fairway.

Like, golf's amazing. Like, I'm sure there's crazy stuff that goes through y'all's head. And I can only guarantee you the stuff that goes through tour players' heads is just as crazy. They just maybe recognize it like, oh, shit, that's not a good thought. Let's move on from that one before that one spirals out of control. It's funny too because when you bring up the tiger shot on the 8-pull on Sunday, I remember the second he made contact, he said to Joey's like, that's in the stands behind because he knew, right,

like of his kind of Venn diagram or his, I guess, in this search like his circle of where the ball could land, he knew the way you hit that, like that's at the top of the circle. But like you said, like just thinking through that he stood there, he had the iron, he knew in his head like, okay, if I don't flush this, you know, there's no, it's not going to get up, it's going to get up, it's going to get a bad spot. And it makes me think of, you know, we got Torrey Pines next month,

for the U.S. Open, and when he played the 72nd hole and Stevie Williams kind of talked him into hitting the 60 degree and flying it pin high and spinning it a little bit and giving himself a put instead of trying to kind of like skip the 56 degree in there, he was basically playing the game, you know, that you play with stats, except they were doing it in real time. That's it exactly. I mean, again, this goes back to where I actually first started this decade thing. Like, this is, these are just the evolutions of the decade card. I don't know if you guys do much video stuff, but this card right here is literally just the strokes gain statistics.

And I just had this in my pocket while I was catting for Will, and I'm just out there doing the math in my head. And there's just a number of times I've said it a million times where if I had been not been injured and been playing in this Texas Amateur myself in 2014, I would have thrown every ounce of the work that I did out at the window by six because I've been like, this is so stupid. I can for sure be more aggressive than this. But I'm catting for Will,

and I'm just like the emotional attachment to outcome. Like I don't have it as a caddy. Like I hope he wins, but it's not going to change my life. And I'm like, well, he's one under. I mean, let's just kind of keep going. And sure enough, we finish off the round. He shoot 67 or 8 in the first round. I'm like, that was the easiest round I've ever seen.

And that's what's funny is I can't tell you how many of my old golfing buddies. They're like, I played the Nelson, you know, with Tim Petrovich or just some random dude. And he's like, he shot the easiest 64 ever. I'm like 64 is always look easy. You hit a bunch of good shots. You made a few decent putts. It's the wheels off 71 that keeps you in it. And you just, you're not going to play every once in a while.

A guy will play 72 straight, great holes and win by six or eight or whatever. But typically your wins are going to have 27 holes of pretty bad golf. Where they're spaced out through there, obviously, who knows. But that's just the way it works. And it's not letting those things totally important. blow you. And again, that's really where guys like you, when I say I would, I would change your scoring average immediately because we would lose all emotional attachment to outcome. I wouldn't care your five over through eight. It just would become totally irrelevant to me picking your next

target. I wouldn't be thinking, well, shit. I told him we'd break 80 today. I'd better get, I mean, it's so stupid if you actually think about it. I told me we break 80 today. We're five over already. We'd better get some back. Like, that's not how it works. That's how you then make a double. And then a bogey. And now you're saying, you go, wow, if I could go back 30 minutes, I'd do that different. That's just not how it works. It really is. Again, I agree with what you said earlier that announcing, I think that announcing filling four hours of dead air every week and has to be the hardest job in golf.

Like, I legitimately think their job is impossible not to have a lot of dumb stuff come out of their mouth relatively often. But I also think that this is, we've come far enough that they should be like, you know, I just said, that, but that's not actually correct. Here's how it works. And at the end of the day, that's what it is that we're, they're still tied to the emotional outcome of ratings of everything, like removing that emotional attachment to everything. I was like, where did I start that? One of the announcers texted me one time, I used to play better with emotion. And I'm like, no, you used to just play worse without emotion. You can't play better than you are. Like, you just didn't, step up when you weren't exactly as tuned in. That's more of a statement on that guy than

emotional, intense guy. Right. Yeah, that's right. Because you can't play better. That's just who you should. That's how you should be. That's who you should be. Yeah, the other guy just sucks. It's not that that emotional guy is awesome. Like, that guy just sucks. Well, exactly. Certainly just not playing as good as he can. Jeez, man. Do you like to get your haircut, Trent? I actually do like to get my haircut. And people are probably saying you've got so little amount of hair, why do you get your haircut? And I like it. Obviously, I can buzz my hair and they do that as well. But also I like it and, you know, they can trim it up around the ears, around the neck. Like I like getting my haircut and I feel like you're going to talk

me about sport clips right now. Yeah, where do you like to get your haircuts? Sport clips. Do you like to get all your hairs cut there? I do. That seems like a joke that you and your dad. Well, let me tell you something about sport clips haircuts. They offer a unique experience that exceeds the typical haircut from start to finish. Okay. Sport Clips Stylists are experts in men and boys' haircuts. Now, where do I fall in that category? That covers you on both sides. Am I a man? Am I a boy?

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I did not know that. Well, I mean, you think about all, like, the jagged edges and you have to line them, up nice and neat. It is a pretty stressful job. I was just at Sport Clips and my stylist had me lined up and it's like if you get one side wrong, the other side, you're walking around like a lunatic. Well, you also, as a stylist, you only get one shot at, right? Like, you can't keep taking off and the stylus at Sport Clips, they get it right every single time. So Sports Clips signature service is the MVP haircut experience. It is so much more than a haircut. the legendary hot steam towel on your face, massaging shampoo that makes you melt into your seat.

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so you can enjoy your prime time. You must opt in for the text message. Message and data fees do apply. So visit a sport clips near you for a haircut that exceeds the typical experience from start to finish. Well, let me ask you then about like the, what about when, right, the idea that the shot dispersion pattern changes day to day, right? Like if you're on a certain day on a back time, like you're, especially these guys and how good, you know,

you've played at a really high level, like when you're just dialed in and they're hitting it on a string, in your opinion still, or based on your stats, like that emotion, if you want to call it that, shouldn't change your aiming point at all? Nope. because let's pretend you are dialed in or even worse you're not because typically people actually take the other side me like if I'm playing bad should I get more conservative no if I'm playing good should I get more aggressive no

because you look like you're at half moon bay there behind you looks like a pretty nice day I assume it's not blowing at all but what is it actually huh but is it blowing at all very little if unmeasurable perfect that's exactly that year that the ping robot, not the ping robot, the PXG robot hit that hole in one on 16. One of my buddies was there and he's like, dude, it was downwind like two to five miles an hour all day. And yes, that robot hit a hole in one, but it also put balls in the front left bunker. It also put balls long.

That robot's shot pattern is normally like a two-yard circle in a perfect situation. The shot pattern was like seven yards wide and 12 yards deep just from a two to five mile an hour wind on just a hundred and thirty-five or 40-yard shot. So even if you're striping it, okay, great. If there's any wind at all, the subtle variances in wind, golf is, you know, the only sport that's not played on a uniform field of condition. It's also the largest outdoor sport played with the ball in the air, the longest of any sport in the world. The wind would make it impossible. And so really, millimeters of contact, the ball being an inch above your feet, the, I mean, the Pythagorean theorem, like it sounds like a, joke when Tiger said he was doing the Pythagorean theorem

that one day, but on tour with yardage books and pin sheets, if you're on the left and the pin is on the left, your as the crow flies line is much shorter, several yards depending on the length of the shot, you don't even have an exact

distance. So, I mean, again, I love saying this to tour players, like any shot you've ever hit close, I'm sorry, but it was luck. That's within, you know, some serious confines and parameters, but essentially, unless that pen, unless you were in the dead center of the fairway and the pin was five yards on, the odds are your distance was not exactly

correct. So you just got a little bit of positive variance on that shot, but it seems like you did a great thing. And that's where, you know, what Will was talking about with you guys saying, like even from 100 yards, average scores 2.8, 16 feet is 1.8. That means if I hit it from 100 yards in the fairway to 16 feet. I've moved it one stroke closer to the hole in one stroke. That's an average shot. You don't think in average in proximity. You think in average in relation to strokes gain. And that's where you take a guy like Tiger, like he just never had materially bad shots. He had seven approach shots. I think it was 2013. Seven approach shots the entire season in 2013 that lost more than a half a stroke. I did some work with one of the

a Walker Cup player a couple years ago and he got it, I'm not going to let you you'll figure out who it is. He got an exemption into a tour event. He lost more half a shot or more on more approach shots that one week than Tiger did in the entire 2013 season.

And I'm like, you're just not going to, you can't hit it close enough to offset these half-stroke losses. It's just, you just, you need to just get nickel and dimed. You just can't have the big ones because you just can't ever get those back. So it is about just plodding along. And I agree with some people when they say the better players make more

birdies, but I would add comma because they can. But they also make the fewest mistakes, which is really where they separate themselves. And especially a guy like you, all of you, is your scoring average drops through the 70s. 70 to 80% of your improvement is from bogey and higher avoidance, not more birdies. A guy with a 79 scoring average only makes one birdie more per round than a guy with a 95 scoring average. The other 15 shots are all bogey and higher avoidance. That's insane.

Say that again real quick. A 79 average averages one birdie more than a 95 average. So out of the 16 shots improvement, only one of them is from more birdies. That's how you lower your scores,

understanding that fact, period. Because as you get, you know, and it makes sense. I mean, on the PJ tour, they average, what, three and a half birdies around, and they average 70, 71. So it's not like a 79 guy is going to average three and a half birdies. Like, once you, it's insane when you think about it, it's like, well, what, what is a 79 guy actually average? One and a half? I mean, a 95 shooter never makes birdies, but actually a 79 shooter doesn't either, technically.

That makes me think, like, every time I make a birdie, it's a fucking miracle. Like, that's what a miracle. That's what it sounds like right now. But, and this sounds like a joke, but like, you know, today's a Monday qualifier. I had two guys that are playing in the Byron Nelson's qualifier today. Stay with me last night. This is what we're talking about. If you make it tomorrow, you're going to call me, and this is how the conversation is going to go.

Guaranteed 90% of the time. I played the par fives really well. I hit a couple of good wedge shots. I made two 20 footers instead of one, and I just didn't make any stupid mistakes. That's how you shoot seven under. you don't shoot 700 by, holy shit, man. I hit it everywhere, had two balls out of bounds, a couple

three putts, and birdied every other hole. Like, obviously that happens, but it's not on average how you're going to do it. And what I would argue is, those birdies, I played the par five as well, what really means is you probably just happen to hit a couple of decent drives on the

par fives, which allowed you to get up and around and well, if you happen to hit a bunch of good drives on 440-yard par fours, that's helpful, but it doesn't help you as much as a really good drive on a barely reachable par five because that allows you get it up there next to the green and two if you if you go back to win brooks when the pga at beth page in the back nine he hit one bad t shot he double crossed one left on a on a reachable par five well a barely reachable par five but because he did it on that hole he was able to pitch it out up

the fairway 90 yards knock it on the green still two put it for par and move on if he does that same shot on a par four he's making bogey because he's basically doing the exact same thing. Like, it's convenient that he happened to miss it on that hole. It's just variance. It's interesting, man. I will say, like, if you're trying to play golf for a living and you focus, you know, so much on every little detail so if you can save half a shot a day, you know, you're saving two shots of tournament. That's a massive difference. It can change your life and your status and all that. There's still always going to be a romanticism. And for guys like us have just fucking sending. I'm just like, you know, dude, I'm two, 52 out on a par five, and there's water all over the place.

And I don't even know if I could carry my driver that far, but if I really nut this three wood, we'll talk about it for weeks. Like there's always still going to be that for, I think, the weekend golfer. And I don't have a problem with that. I mean, again, this is where I am not playing a role necessarily. I probably really am an asshole, but I'm playing a bit of a role on Twitter of I am being very utopian, very exclusive. said, I am only here to help people shoot the lowest scores possible. If you want to go try that three, would knock yourself out. Like, I obviously couldn't care less. But, and this is where people give me a hard time where they're like, well, I just like going out and knocking it around with my

buddies at dusk and having drinks. I'm like, awesome. I do too. That's not golf though. And they're like, how's it not golf? I'm like, the point of golf is to shoot the lowest score possible. I can't believe I actually have to argue that on Twitter sometimes too, but I get it that there's a social aspect of golf, trust me, I'm one of the biggest proponents of that particular part of golf. But the actual purpose of the game of golf is to shoot the lowest score you can. And that's all that I'm trying to get people to do, because I appreciate, man, I just want to pull off the hero shot. But I can't tell you how many times I get emails from people like, dude, my handicap has dropped from a six to a one in the last nine months. And it's so much more fun. But more importantly, like, I'm just not as

mental on the courses I used to be again. Like, I create the vast majority of the decade content. is me laughing at my 25-year-old self. Like, wow, you thought this was going to be productive? I mean, I played the U.S. Open at Pioneers in 1999, and I'm smashed my three wood into the second T, excuse me, the 10th T in the second round, and the Walking Rules official was like, you're your Hootor player, right?

And I'm like, I sure am. He's like, I just won't let you know that I would find anyone else in the field $5,000 if they did that. I'm like, well, the USG had looked pretty stupid to find me that because I don't have $5,000. And he literally just hit me back. with the most perfect, just how he came up so quickly, he's like, not as stupid as you look with all that mud on your shirt.

And I looked down and I was just covered in mud, I'm buried by my three wood into the T-box. And it's just like, I know the dumb stuff going through your head, period. I know what you're thinking. And so I'm just trying to be blunt and call it out because you don't have to be that mental. You just really don't. Once you understand the method. I use this analogy all the time, and I think it's a really good one.

15 foot make rate on the PGA tour is 23%. roughly 25% one and four. If I had a 10, a jack, a queen, and a king face down on the table and told you to pick the jack and you didn't, you would not throw your hands up in the air and be like, holy shit, I'm okay. And then if I asked you to do it again and you still didn't pick the jack, you still wouldn't freak out. You'd just be like, wow, that's really weird. I didn't pick the jack two times in a row. But when we miss a 15 foot or on tour, we've got to give these, these, just miming, oh, that broke ride.

I didn't expect it to break ride or stand there with your hips on your shirt. I mean, just there's so much dumb stuff that I can tell you before. Any put outside of eight feet, I can tell you and make money for the rest of my life. To a tour player, you're probably going to miss this. And I'll bet you whatever amount you can possibly scrape together on this particular put. And we'll just keep doing it every time you're outside eight feet. And I will break you eventually. But we don't see that.

But once you understand it, the math, it is what it is. The only thing I would change about what. you said earlier the point of golf is like I would say that the whole purpose of competitive golf is to like shoot the lowest score that you can't but like for us right like golf's a lifestyle golf is like if you want to go out to the cradle or a short course and have two clubs and fuck around and be really excited that you made one birdie and not care about any other score like that to me is also golf and that's sort of like a lot of what we do so I would the only tweak that I would make is like point of competitive golf is to shoot the lowest score that you can and again that's why I tried to say like I'm

trying to be is somewhat antagonistic by saying this because I'm trying to make a point that the goal of tournament golf, I definitely will agree with you that that's a perfectly fine addendum, but also at the end of the day, the point of actual golf, which again, drinking, hanging out, par three course, even just every single Friday at your home course. Like, I totally agree. The point of golf is to have fun. I'm saying you can't, I'm trying to think of a best way to put the analogy, but basically, if you're trying to shoot your lowest score, you can only make optimal decisions. Like, yes, you can make suboptimal decisions because there is an intrinsic benefit to, well, hey, if I pull this off, I'm going to have a net life benefit by having pulled off

that shot, even though I'm going to technically probably shoot a little bit higher on average. Like, again, I'm totally for that. But just don't bring me, that's a feeling argument into an argument where we're just, the only time that comes up is we're actually discussing. assessing strategy on a given hole or shot. You're now bringing in life happiness. That's totally fine, but that's not, it's a higher average score 90% of the time. Right. You know, and the other thing that I'll say too, just to like kind of tie that off totally is you, you will make some spots where you could make a slightly different non-decade decision that does go in the face of what I teach. And it might actually result in a 10th of a stroke lower scoring.

average. But those situations are so rare. I mean, there's times where it's like, yeah, you just throw everything out the window. But by going with decade per the letter of the law, it's never a terrible decision. And if you start trying to override it with the situation or your current emotional state, for every one time you get it right, you're going to do it wrong five times for a net loss. You can hit on 18 and there's a 23% chance. You're going to get a three or less. That doesn't mean that when you hit on 18 because I'm just feeling it. I've done it. I've hit on 18 with probably too much money on the table because I was feeling it and got rewarded,

which the problem with golf is you can do it and get rewarded. But then you think, hey, that play was right. Whereas we're doing it like, well, I know this is stupid, but I'm about to do it anyways because it's fun. That's just not how I view like my role is teaching optimal scoring, especially at the level with a lot of the players I work with. I mean, again, it's just funny in the last month. Obviously, Zalotaurus kicks it off with second at the Masters.

Then the following week, Stuart Sink wins. He bought the app in the app store. Like, he's, I don't even work with it on tour. He's like, I just bought it out of the app store. And we put it in play in one the first week. And we make all of our decisions based on it. The next week, a kid named Garrick Higo won on the European tour. He just won again this weekend.

Like Sam Burns, I worked with, and he was a junior in college when he first turned pro. Like, this is how all of these young people are doing it. I hate saying that. But really, we're just circumventing. the learning curve in the game. Right. I mean, that's the point. Right. And I, you know, and there's a reason that they're seeking you out. There's a reason that they're buying in that they're winning.

There's a reason Brandel, you know, went very hard on endorsing you during master's coverage. And I think it makes a lot of sense. It's just, it's a very, again, for like, for hardcore analytical professionals, it's almost, it's a little no-brainer. Like you'd be crazy not to use it. I do, and I think that the harder sell, if you will, and why you get a lot of these questions and why you've addressed a good amount, why bring up is that when you are more of a casual recreational golfer,

you know, you tend to think like, oh, do I really need this? But again, as you've kind of proven for an hour now, it's like, well, yeah, if you want to shoot lower scores, this is just the math behind it. So I think it makes a lot of sense. We appreciate the time, very much appreciate the time. And I'm, you know, I'm on the app. You gave me a code, so I'm going to play a good amount of golf. I get a couple days here.

We're out here doing our events or whatnot, but this weekend I got a lot of golf. I'm going to play, so I'm going to really put the app in play. I'm going to report back to you kind of what I think. And maybe we'll have to get you back on and kind of debrief. But I'm excited to kind of, and look, we're always looking for the secret or the tip or whatever, right? Like, everybody's looking for that in golf. So it can't hurt to add something like this to your repertoire. The thing that I think is important, though, is they're not mutually.

exclusive. And that's what people, where I do disconnect it in the lodge. If you were to tell me you were a four handicap, you would be much happier with that than whatever your handicap is. You have to trust that those hero shots are still baked into that math. Zalotaurus had a hole in one at the US Open. He wasn't aiming at the flag. He hit the pin in the same round for almost two hole in once. He wasn't aiming at the hole on either one of them. You will still magically just because of variance within your shot pattern hit holes in ones and crazy amazing shots

unfortunately the cover has just been revealed that it was kind of a mistake but that's okay like I'm just a fan of shooting personal best and lower than your normal scores is more fun to me than it yeah and playing good golf is the most fun

thing in the world like everybody just agrees period yeah all right man absolutely well look we appreciate we appreciate the time keep fighting the good fight You're in your neck of the woods, right? You're going to be all over this week? You know, it's kind of misty out there today.

I'm a bit of a fair weather fan. I had a couple guys I'm supposed to go see, and I'm like, I ain't going out there. It's 55 and misting. You're just going to watch TV in sports all day and just kind of hang out in the house. Just read the Patriots playbook. Go watch a movie, man. Like, just go.

Go watch Molly's game. You're a big poker board. I've seen that. It's been a long time. There you go. There you go. I don't mind movies and Ben, watching stuff. I'm all over the Goldbergs right now and enjoying it quite a bit. There you go.

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do you ever think about what's going on out there? More than you can possibly imagine. Really? All right. Now hold on. Let's get in this. Talk. Talk to you. us just a little bit. What's your thoughts? Because we bring, we may be more astronomy guys than we are golf guys when you really break down the amount of minutes talked about each particular subject. I'm certainly not a religious guy, so I'm definitely a big thing.

That would have been amazing. If you were like, I'm a diehard Catholic, so let me tell you what. It's all right there in the Bible. I would have been the biggest you turned in the history of podcasting if you had been like, I'm big on Catholicism. He pulls his cross out. He's got a cross neck necklace on. I was almost, I was almost, while you were going through all that,

I wanted to call you a golf atheist. Have people called you a golf atheist before? No, but I'm sure they've called me a lot of things behind my back. I don't know about it. You are a golf atheist, but I appreciate that about you. But this is where it's interesting to your point, though. I don't know, boy, we can take this for another hour, but I'm, I guess I'm an atheist, but I'm not like,

I feel like there's got to be something. Okay. What was there before there was nothing? Like, I think it's a really crazy thing. to think. And then I'll tell you what, like I can definitely go down to the, what are the Matt Damon,

the Martians? Like, I can watch those movies all day long. Like, I do find that stuff crazy. But I, I think it's really bizarre to think. I mean, I'm definitely a believer that there's other life out there. Like,

not in a crazy, you know, foot coming out of my head way, but like the odds that this is the only place that this occurred is just so crazy. But then if you think of everything that occurred to make this possible, that our planet is just tilted at the perfect angle

to not just be a giant sheet of ice. That we almost got frozen out, and then that's when we figured we got to start eating stuff out of the ocean, and then our brain starts developing. Like, there's so many things that are just insane. I mean, if you think about the asteroid coming in and taking out the dinosaurs, and there's just a thin layer at however many feet below

that is perfectly the same around the entire world that basically shows this was from that impact. There's just so many things where it's like, Dude, I can't imagine there's not some sort of microorganisms on other planets, but are they this advanced? Because we're idiots, but we're pretty advanced also. Well, Trent, you sent me a link the other day of some guy in the Joe Rogan experience. What was that guy's name? Lawrence Krauss, I believe.

Lawrence Krauss, right? And he's explaining, and this is like a fifth grader trying to reiterate what some cosmologist was, whatever, was trying to explain. But basically that there are certain galaxies in the universe is. actually expanding a way so fast that it's faster than the speed of light. And accelerating. And accelerating, right? Right. So we would never know that they are there because the light will never escape how fast the

space is actually expanding. So, like, there are parts of the universe that are just going so fucking fast and so far that we can't even comprehend, nor will we ever, ever see them. It's insane. If you think about the fact that we're in this little solar system that's in a little arm of a huge galaxy and all of it's spinning and God knows what ways and shooting through space, like, it's literally impossible.

My kids are seven, actually, today's are eighth birthday. Shout out Kara Fawcett. Today's our eighth birthday. I just had lunch at school. And trying to explain stuff like this to eight and 11-year-olds, it's just, it's literally just impossible. It's like what this show is, basically. That's how I feel.

Well, like, the thing that I always, like, was upset that I didn't really learn when I was younger was, like, you learn about space and you're like, oh, look at that place out there. Meanwhile, we're in space. And I never really took that viewing of it until, like, really, like, recently where you're like, wait a minute. Like, when I thought of space, it's like a place that you go and you go see it. Like, no, Earth is just one of the planets that we just happen to be on. Like, you look at Venus and Mars as if there's some sort of different. different thing. Like, oh, I can't even imagine that. Like, hey, brother, you're on one. Well, Sam Harris has a great way that he's talks about. He's like, I spend a great deal

of my time thinking about the human brain, but it basically never occurs to me that I have one. Right. Like, we're, right. We're in, another way people explain, Sam Harris might have been one, too, where like, we're in the snow globe. We're trying to examine the snow globe, but we're inside of it. Just a metaphysical question, like, okay, Riggs, it looks beautiful behind you. It's a beautiful blue sky, it's not blue. Wait, right? It's not blue. It's not blue. And you're just seeing this. This is like, think about this. Like my,

me right now, like the, the smells and the scenes and the sights that I'm seeing, I'm actually, I'm not enjoying those. Those are just electrical reactions in my brain. I'm not, none of those things are actually experience, I'm not experiencing any of those. Those are just

literally electrical firing of my neurosystem. That's just how it's firing and reacting to these things. that that's it it's just i'm a basically a pile of dust that is responding electrically to those things all we are is dust in the wind that feels like that could be a song somebody should write that down right so so when we have you back on to to to talk about all this we'll have to do a deeper dive into space because we really could do this for another hour and i mean it's just it's i'm trying to dive deeper into this i'm trying to find the answer scott

That's what, you know, I will say, maybe the four-play golf podcast finds the answer. I will say if there's anything I will search for, it's going to be like space type documentaries dated, you know, 2019 and later. Definitely just keep on moving that bar out, trying to find anything that's got actually some modern science and thought and theory behind it because it really is. I feel like we're clearly living in the best time ever. And I feel like we're like a hundred yards, 100 yards, 100 years short of the absolutely most. bonkers time to ever be alive. Like, I feel like it's about to just go off the rails from here. And maybe good, maybe bad.

I mean, it is. There's like the theory that, you know, the exact year that it'll be like, you know, the Joe Rogan experience, you list a lot of those different people that he has on. Like I know Frankie just referenced earlier, like, there's experts out that believe, like, if you can live to the year like 20, 29 that you could just live forever. Because, like, they'll be able to farm organs. They'll be able to come up with like neurological machines and AI that'll keep your brain alive and it can attach it to whatever body or whatever organs you

you need and we'll be living in a fucking simulation and you'll just live forever if you can make it to a yeah what do they call they call that the singularity right when we're just going to combine with computers and then your your brain just lives forever because you're just a robot at that point it is conceivable we're on this earth it is conceivable we're one of the last generations to die I mean aside from accidents like that's wow that's crazy but it's certainly in play. I mean, yeah. Someone that is on this earth right now,

do you think they will live forever? Someone that's currently living on this earth? I don't. There's Elon Musk or... No, because it's such a crazy idea to think that we could actually pull that off, but at some point aging, well, this is the argument again, like...

Circle back up. I... And this is interesting to this, Reeks, like, you guys, obviously, I know that you're not afraid to... Like, I'll say shit and everything. I'll try not to throw F bombs out there typically. Trust me, my daily life, I do it all the time. I couldn't give two shits about cussing.

I just try to do it. You guys are clearly, you know, cutting edge. But then you also do seem like you're a bit of a golf traditionalist. Like, I like the artsy-fartsy historical stuff. So you're kind of like riding both fences, which is interesting. Because the main people that I do argue with all the time are the historian architecture, wine-loving, just golf snobs in my opinion. Jeff Jackleford.

Huh? Jeff Schofer. Without putting names to faces. Yeah, that fucking dork, Jeff Shogafers, is that who you're talking about? Loser. He rides that fence a little bit, but, you know, again, damn it, now you just distract me. Where was I going?

No, but look, look, I think, but it's, it's, it's, you're right, because me, I fucking hate that guy. I don't know. I don't know him well enough to go that far, not like Michael Finn. You know enough about him. He's just the worst. But yeah, I mean, right? Like we, we on one end, we like to go to the cradle and have a bunch of cocktails and be barefoot and have music playing. But also, like, if you were to bring us out to Wingfoot, like, we would love the fact that we got to walk out eggshells and, like, do it the right way.

And I'm like, so, you know, you can enjoy a little bit of it. Tell me, you know, like, tell me a little bit about, like, the Tilling Hass Greens and what he was thinking here. Like, hit me with that, you know, like, so, yeah, we want a little bit of all of it. but we clearly lean to the side of younger, fresher, you know, like we're, we're cutting edge, if you will, like whatever the hell that means. But then we also can just have dumb conversations about singularity and space and wonder, you know, which one of us is going to live forever. Singularity. Holy fun.

You just never know what you're going to get here. Dude, AI talk is a whole not a level, Frankie. Well, have you guys, have you guys read any of the wait but why stuff talking about like AI and we're on the doorstep of all that? I haven't read it, like, directly, but I've read obviously, like, articles and reactions to it. And the thought of, you know, like, we will actually be some of the, we will be like the last dumbest people of all time. Because once we start to plug in neurologically to artificial intelligence, like our cognitive ability is just going to go through the roof. Yeah.

I mean, I notice it with my brain, right, my memory is just awful because I'm like, I don't have to remember anything ever. I mean, just literally never have to do it. I really do think I would love to see how this pans out. Like, I really, just from a, like, I'm not a guy who's worried about dying, but there is a big part of me that I'm just like, I'm just kind of curious how this plans out over the next 50 years. We've got a lot of shit to figure out. And I don't think we were going to figure it out.

I mean, again, if you want to get depressed, like, go listen to Sam Harris as one of his most recent podcast, talking about pandemics. and I don't think we're getting out of this. Like I think this is just a new way of life because there's just pandemics every single year, but they always stay localized. And now with globalization, it's just going to keep happening, I think.

And I think that how we handle that as a society, because all we want to do is bitch at each other. Like, this is where I laugh because I'm like, I would like to get involved in some more actual interesting and intellectual topics. But I'm like, if I have to claw my eyes out arguing about golf strategy this much. There's no way I can talk about health and fitness. You don't want to enter that world on Twitter, man. You just stick to the

golf assholes and just keep fighting with them. You don't want to deal with that shit. That's when I turned Twitter off. You can't post a picture of a steak that you whipped up on Twitter. You'll be in the mud for days over it. I put up like a drum video. I'm playing the drums. I was like, oh, look, I play the drums. Everyone's like, it's just not in tempo. Some guy sent it back to me with a metronome attached to it and said that I was off beat from 30 seconds to 35 seconds. I'm like, dude, I don't know what to tell you, man. It was just whatever. Like, I'm just, I hate the fucking world. But I do agree. Like, I do want to stick around to see what

this world can do. Like, I just ordered a pursuit sandwich for lunch that just got to the office. So that probably will hinder my ability to reach the levels that I do want to reach. But hopefully we get this thing figured out before my heart just stops beating. I think that's a great, that's like a stretch goal for you. Yes. Thank you. All right. Scott Fawcett, decade. We appreciate it. Go check out his stuff if you haven't. Download the app.

Hopefully improve your game, lower your scores. We'll have you back on because there's clearly a lot of topics we could get into, my friend. Yes, absolutely love it. Thanks, guys. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. All right, guys. Good meeting you.

All right, folks, that was Scott Fawcett. Fascinating conversation, very different than a lot of the other stuff that you're going to get on this show. It is not lost on us that a lot of other things happen in the golf world. We touched on Rory a little bit, but we're going to get a lot into Rory winning Wells Fargo. We got bright. who thought he missed the cut and then flew home. We got Phil that went 64, 75, 76, 76. We have Ricky Fowler who said he watched the master's first round at Tiger Woods House.

So there's a million topics that we still have to get into. I'm obviously out on a golf course right now, so I've got a ton to do. You guys have a ton to do. We just did an hour and 45-minute show already. So this is essentially what I'm giving people right now is a teaser for Thursday show because we still have a ton to talk about. Right. And tonight, YouTube, 8 o'clock.

Taylor Made series concludes. So this was basically we had all the guys that we, and Maria Fossi, everyone that we had for the Taylor Made series answered questions. Harry Higgs is like the funniest dude of all time. DJ answers questions. I mean, you get more content from Tommy Fleetwood and Matthew Wolf. So tonight 8 o'clock will be in the chat. It's a really good video.

It's something that, you know, it's just like hearing them answer from the gallery questions is something that we really wanted to do and they were really up for it. So we got that and then Thursday like you said we'll be back with a lot more golf talk and that is when Wolf Creek comes out. So I just want the little plug for the YouTube page. Good call. Very good call. Yeah.

Tuesday and Thursday we got big videos coming out on YouTube. So we keep rolling with the content. We will be back on Thursday with a big show because we still have a ton to get to. I hope everybody enjoyed Scott and that's all I got. He was awesome. He was great. He's very much. I'm right. He's very much.

I'm right, you're wrong, but he comes off, like, if you don't want to listen to me, then you, like, fuck off. I don't care. Right. I mean, he, he self-claimed that he's antagonistic, like, for a reason. Because he is, at the end of the day, he's like, I'm right, and you guys are wrong. Like, on this podcast, we're wrong a lot of the time, and we admit that we're wrong. Scott is not a guy, and he's got the numbers to back it up who's ever going to admit that he's wrong, because he's not. Right.

100%. And, like, that's also just how stats guys are. Yeah. They're just like, no, I'm just like, right. Like, that's how Brandlis. come off forever. Like, no, it's fine. You can have your cute opinion, but mine's actually not even an opinion. It's just a fact because I know stats. But like you said, he also doesn't force it down your throat. He's like, no, if you don't want to listen and you want to go fuck around and have a good time and not really pay attention to things that'll make your scoring better, fine. But if you want your

scoring to be lower, this is just what you have to do. So I enjoyed him. I enjoyed him very much. He gets into it, like we said, with a lot of golf traditionalist, purists, and broadcasters and all that. So big thanks to him joining. And, boys, we'll be back on Thursday. Yeah, I just, I want to use my platform on the 4Play Golf podcast to call out this person. I don't actually know them by name, but if you are at the Skate Safe of America Roller Hockey Rink, and you take the scores down, your scoring sheet guy, and you didn't credit me on the website for my second goal of the game the other night.

I scored two goals, boys. I scored two goals and a 6-2 loss. I was the only guy out there fucking scoring. Shout out to the out case. And I click online and I go, oh, I want to see Frankie's all-time stats. He gives me a golden assist. Figure it out. It's not that fucking hard to watch what's happening.

And apparently it's a problem in men's league hockey. These guys, they sit there and they hate their lives. They don't want to be there. They barely get the clock running. Fucking figure it out. Number 29. I got two goals that game. Frankie, you got to realize that that's not just a problem at men's league hockey.

Like, that has been a problem in hockey forever. Kids that are 13, 14, that would go over to the scoring sheet, go over to the official and try. to throw their name in and try to get a fantasy apple we would call that a phantom apple you'd get that all the time where it's like you know somebody'd be hanging around like uh oh yeah ref second assist 21 smith 21 smith and they just write that on the sheet you added up in the end the guy had like 15 more points of you and you're like how the fuck did that happen because people get real shady when it comes to the score sheet frankie i was like come on man i i was i was glowing we

we got dominated but i fucking i had a one-timer i got a rebound went top shelf i was fucking feeling myself. I go to the website, it's like one goal, one assist. Fuck off, one goal. I didn't have no assist. I scored twice. So fix it. Fix it, please, with the love of God. Hit it hard. Hit it hard. Hit it hard.