Fore Play - The Great White Shark Himself, Greg Norman

Episode Date: October 4, 2018

Legend Greg Norman joins us in studio, and he's even more impressive in person. The Shark tells riveting stories and chops it up like he's simply one of the boys. If he could have one shot to do over again, which would it be? Does he have the best logo in the world? What's the most nervous he's ever been? Is there anything he wished he didn't say? What's his single favorite golf shot to hit? What happened to President Clinton's leg at Norman's house in 1997? What's the most outrageous thing he's heard from the fans? This, folks, is one of our MUST LISTEN shows! You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Incredibly, incredibly special show today. We have The Shark. Just saying that, sounds so cool. It feels great, man. The shark. We got the shark.

We got him. We caught him, and we brought him in, and we interviewed him. We wrangled him. We wrangled the shark. We brought him into the studio. We sat down with him for Damn Near and our Mr. Greg Norman, two-time major winner, 91 time international tournament winner. I think he finished eight times runner up in major championships.

Everybody knows about all those things. He is one of the most iconic marketing-wise, one of the most iconic golfers to ever exist with the hat, the Australian thing going on. The logo, which we talk about the logo. We talk about all of these things because we wrangled the shark. Yeah. And guess what?

He's an awesome guy. Oh, he is such a stud. Yeah. You know, I, so Dave did a pizza review with him as well. That already went up so people can see that. Go check it out. Mr. Dave Portnoy and Greg Norman, the shark, doing a pizza review together. And several people hit me up and we're like, man, you know, there's a lot of people who are on a certain level of celebrity, which he is on, that you can sense when they're doing something that they're almost, they're checked out a bit, they're impervious to things that are going on around them to a bit.

to a degree and they're just kind of in their own world and understandably so because they're such massive celebrities and icons and all that and everybody's matching me being like Greg Norman does not seem like that he seems like just the most down-to-earth normal guys like yeah that's because he is and you talked about how famous he is and how he could just check out if you want to do he didn't also if you want to Google

Greg Norman's net worth he could very much just check out and not have to do any of this ever again but he's very engaging we had him in and he was one of the best interviews we've ever done We did almost an hour with him. He is fantastic. We cover, like I said, we cover a lot of different things. We get into several different moments that I tried to get him to discuss the details of, which he does phenomenally.

He gets into the Larry Myers chip in, when Larry Meijs chipped in on him in a playoff, on the 11th hole at Augustine Asheville, the 1987 Masters. I think I was two months old at the time. Shout out to me. Shout out to you. At the 2000, I'm sorry, at the 1987 Masters. to beat him. He talks about Bob Tway hauling out from the bunker to beat him

at the PGA championship. He goes through these things in amazing detail. He remembers off the top of his head the exact yardage that he had to the flag. He remembers the exact yardage that he had to carry the ridge to get it up onto the right ridge and he goes through this in intricate detail what was going through his mind,

you know, what he wishes he could do over, what he did really well. He's an incredibly confident person. I'll give him that. People who are listening, and you're going to find out that Greg Norman is the most confident person in the world. In an endearing way. Yes. Not in an asshole way. No, not at all.

Somehow he does it in this incredibly endearing way. So the shark, I admitted to him that growing up, when I was a real youngster, when I was like single digit age, my favorite golfer by far was Greg Norman. It was the shark. I mean, the shark, if you're a kid, you see that shark, it's got the different colors, the cool hat, all that. Like, he's a no-brainer. A peek into what Greg Norman is like. You said that to him when we first met him. He came off the elevator at Barstle HQ, and you said,

you were my favorite golfer growing up. And Greg Norman says, well, what happened? Yeah, 100%. That's the kind of guy we're dealing with. And, you know, when he said that, I thought, shit, what's, that didn't sound good at all. What an asshole I am? Right. You thought you were my favorite golfer.

And then you're going to be like, well, then, Tiger Woods came along. I don't know to tell you. So we have Greg Norman in studio, myself, Frankie Brello, the Pizza Maker, Slim Daddy, and Mr. Greg Norman, sitting in studio together for about an hour. This is one of the coolest interviews we've. ever done again two-time major winner eight-time runner-up he's won 91 times internationally 20 pGA tour tournaments and as he mentions he was number one in the world for 331 weeks

so he is as good as it gets enjoy mr greg norman the right hire can make a huge huge impact on your business that's why it is so important to find the right person people might not know this but i worked in recruiting for a while oh did you really i worked in recruiting and we use LinkedIn. Honestly, if we didn't have LinkedIn, I wouldn't have had a job. Right. We were on LinkedIn nonstop. Yeah, you have to have LinkedIn to even have a chance out there in the job market.

Where do you find these individuals that you need? You could try posting on job boards, but you can really be sure the right person sees your job. Nope, you cannot be sure. Instead, find the person who will help you grow your business with LinkedIn as the world's largest professional network. People go to LinkedIn every single day to grow professionally and discover job opportunities. again, I know this because I used to do it for a profession. 70% of the U.S. workforce is already there. LinkedIn jobs matches people to your role based on more of who they really are,

their skills, their interests, and even how open they are to new opportunities. This way, your job gets seen by more of the right people, not just random people, but the right people. Most LinkedIn members haven't recently visited the top job boards, but nine out of ten members are open to new opportunities. so you can only reach them on LinkedIn. You can literally only reach them on LinkedIn, so you need to be there. Hurry to LinkedIn.com slash 4, and you're going to get 50 bucks off your first job post. That's LinkedIn.com slash 4 to get 50 bucks off of your first job post, LinkedIn.com slash 4.

Terms and conditions apply. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are joined now in studio in the office by a very special guest, the shark, Mr. Greg Norman. Greg, first of all, welcome. first impressions of basketball sports walking in. Well, my first impression when the elevator door opened,

I went, holy shit, this place is packed in here. Very impressive, guys. We're running low on space, as you can see, but things could be worse, so we appreciate you coming in and all of that.

First question, how did you get the nickname The Great White Char? Oh, great first question. 1981, I played my first U.S. Masters. Now, in 1981, I'd been a professional golfer for four years, right? So nobody knew who the hell Greg Norman was, what he did, how he went about things.

But lo and behold, after two rounds of the Masters, I was leading it. So obviously, I go in the media room, and they wanted to do a deep dive into my background. I had long blonde hair. I played really aggressive golf. And I told him I grew up on the Great Barrier Reef, and I, you know, dive with sharks and great white sharks and tiger sharks and all that. And lo and behold, Saturday morning, the Atlanta Constitution, the headline was Great White Shark Leeds U.S. Masters. And that's how it stuck.

And actually it was the best thing any editorial media guide ever done for me. Did you love it? I was saying there's worse nicknames other than the Great White Shark. It's pretty good. In Australia, for four years, they called me the Golden Bear Cub. Okay. Because I was actually, I was, my whole golfing, startup was reading Jack Nicholas's book, right?

So they really cloned me as the Golden Bear Cubs. And I hated that. I hated the idea of being in somebody else in Seattle. So I said, screw this, screw this. But there was no real name coming out until Saturday of the Masters in 81. I said, perfect. That's what I love it. It's so me, blonde hair, aggressive style.

You know, and I tack and eat things. And that's it. Yeah, and you did have kind of the Nicholas Shaggy, blonde hair and whatnot. So I bet you were talking about that. Yeah, well, my body and my physique was a little bit. different than Jack's. Which is a good thing. That's what you want.

Sorry, Jack. No, we're not taking shots. No, we're just saying. That's great. We grab a couple of headlines. Greg Norman takes shots at Jack Nicholas all these years later. She gets on Jack Nicholas's physique right out of the gate. Do you think anybody in golf has a better logo than you do?

No. I don't think anybody in sports has a better logo than you. Mine's pretty cool logo. Yeah. I feel like people would say like the Jordan logo, but the shark is so good looking. So how does that come to be? because you get the headlines, people, it obviously catches on. Then do you just circle up with a marketing team?

Like, hey, we've got to get a cool great white shark logo. Man, you guys are starting off with two great questions. Okay, how that all started? I became an endorsement player for Reebok, right? My dear friend Paul Feynman owned Reebok at the time. And Reebok was really a woman's sneaker shoe coming out of the UK. And he bought it into the United States, wanted to bring it into an athletic brand, right? To be competitive to Nike.

So I was number one player in the world. old at the time. I signed an endorsement deal with Reebok. I was wearing Reebok on my sleeve. And around the late 80s, around 87, 88, Paul comes to me and says, hey, you know, I would really like to start up the Greg Norman Collection. I think there's a great opportunity for us. Why? Because he had distribution, right? Because of all the distribution outlets he have with all the athletic apparel that he had from sneakers to athletic clothing. So I go, sure, I'm not, okay, Paul go ahead. So we had to come up with a logo. So he's internal. team within Reebok came up with the logo. And, you know, when we started going out to register

as a trademark, we were bumping up against another company called Paul and Shark. You're familiar with that? Paul and Shark is a monochromatic shark logo, swimming in the opposite direction of our logo. So we had to do a settlement deal on a global basis, and there were a couple of carve-outs of a few countries around the world, especially in Europe because Paul and Shark was Italy. So we actually did a carve out. We paid them a fee for the rest of the world, which was in those days, I won't say what it was, but it was in the millions of dollars, which was really

a substantial amount of money back in the late 80s. So we got control of the logo, but it had to be a multicolored logo swimming in the opposite direction of the Portland Sharkland. That's huge. Swimming in the other direction. That's what it came down to. I used to imagine like a huge board of very important people. What can we do to make these different? We'll just make it swim in a different direction. Let's do that.

I got to be honest, I think you nailed the direction. I think this is the right. I think it's the correct direction. It never takes off if it swimming in this way. Well, yeah, your name goes this way. The shark comes this way. It's incredible. I agree.

How much did you embrace it, you know, like walking out of the range? You're like, oh, yeah, here comes the shark. How did you feel about it? You know, everybody was called, like, in China, they call me Dabe Shah, which is a great white fish, a great white, right? In Mexico, they call me Tiburon, which is shark. And on the tour, when I played, people were out there with sharks T-shirts, shark this, sharked at and uh you know i loved it i absolutely loved it and what it really did teach me guys was

i knew how to play golf and what made me so special because i could hit the white little white golf ball from point a point be better than most people it was i learned very very quickly that if you could put bums on seats if you could bring people through the gate if you can move tv ratings uh you could actually put that logo out in front of more people more often and get more visibility about it. Paul Feynman taught me all about branding and marketing for a novice. And over the period of time that I was an endorsed player with him, I knew there was going to be a time period

where there was going to be a separation of church and state. Reebok would go off my shirt and there'd be the shark logo on the shirt, and that's what happened. And under the Reebok umbrella, we were doing plus 300 million domestically in the U.S., which was a pretty impressive number very quickly out of the gate. So you talk about how you played, aggressive style of golf. Talk about what that means, where that comes from, because I feel like

a guy's style of golf typically is very reflective of their personality, their background, and all that. So, you know, you're one of the best drivers of the golf ball that ever lived. Talk about where that style of aggressive golf comes from. There was misconstrued many times, arrogance and confidence, right? People thought I was very arrogant and had a lot of ego on the golf course, but it wasn't. It was because I was very confident in my ability to hit any goal shot that I ever wanted to hit. Why? Because I've hit over five million golf balls in my life. And I never just, my first kind of surrogate coach, when I would go out to the driving range, you know, when everybody does, you always give yourself a perfect life on the driving range.

Right. You take a hundred balls, you put them there and you pull the ball over and you always teared up. My surrogate coach at that time back in, you know, the late 70s said, why are you always practicing out of a perfect lie. Put it in a bad lie. Put it like you're in the rough. Put it behind a tree. Practice those shots all the time because if you hit it a thousand times and you need it one time on a Sunday, you know how to hit it. Right. So that's how I practice. So the confidence of me being able to get out there and feeling there's not a shot out there I can't play was, you know, people interpreted as, okay, he's an arrogant guy and he plays too aggressive and he's and blah, blah, blah. Look, it was detrimental to me many times because, you know, you know, you

You know, I was so confident my caddy would be pulling me back, trying to pull the reins back on me and said, don't do this. How those conversations go? In my way. But I'll tell you a true story, Dural. I'm going down a Sunday afternoon at Dural. I shot 62 to get in a playoff, and we're playing, going down the eighth hole. And my T-shot down the middle that was in the divot. I had about 247 into the wind with old Pissim and three woods and Balaamah, all right?

and I'm in a divot and I'm about 10 shots back with 11 holes to go and I said to my caddy walking it up to the ball he said ah shit you know we're in the divot and I said you know what we get a chance of winning this golf tournament

and Tony goes really I said yeah so I pull out a three wood and I hit it out of the divot on the green make three so I finished three through the front nine right and I go on and I shoot 10 under and I get in a playoff

and I eagle the first playoff hole So it was that type of mentality that I never thought there wasn't a insurmountable deficit to a score. So I just went at it, went at it, and went at it. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. So we've had Brandl Chambley on the show many times. He always says the hardest thing to do in golf has hit it long and straight. You were one of the best you and sort of Jack Nicholas maybe that ever lived at doing that.

Why do you think you're driving the golf ball was so good? My takeaway. I had, even today when I walk by my office and I see a sequence of my swing, my triangle, which is the shoulders to my grip to the club head, my triangle was so good for so long, and my body and my spine angle stayed so good. And even on my down swing, my spine angle didn't change, not like some other players, like Tiger's spine angle changes dramatically. You know, DJ's got great spine angle. That's why I think he's a really, really good driver of golf ball. Rory spine angle changes because he's head drops and this motion here, even though he drives it well. But I had it all right from the takeaway.

So to me, the most important part of the golf swing was the first 18 inches. So if I took that club head back as far and as deep as I could for the first 18 inches without anything hinging, whether it's in your fingers or in your elbows or your wrists or your shoulders or your hips, the rest was simple. was there a week or a tournament or anything like that that stands out where you were hitting the ball or driving the ball better than you've ever driven it? Oh my God, every week. No, seriously.

I'm obsessed with that answer. That's a shark answer. That's a shark answer. It was like I always took one side of the golf course out of play. And I always took the left side of the golf course out of play. Just like a lot of the power players do today. DJ, Tiger, they're all stand up, aim left and let it fall back to the right. And why? Because it's a lot easier to keep that clubhead coming down the line for a longer

period of time if you're taking the left side out. So, you know, I could then go ahead and swing as hard as I want and I had the whole fairway to work with and just not half a fairway. So I would say when I went to Turnbury in 86, the weather was salacious and I walked under the first here and the first practice round on a Monday afternoon. And it was like single file going down the fairway, right? It was just so tight. And I said to myself, I got a really big chance this week because I'm going to drive the golf ball. And I figured if I'm going to miss the fairway, I'm going to be closer to the green with a pitching wedge or a nine iron and eight iron where people were back there with a five iron out of the rough and they couldn't do it. So I had a game plan right from the get-go.

And I never deviated from that game plan. I drove the golf ball everywhere I can drive it except on par 3s and i drove the ball great and uh yeah the fairways in those days were like 18 22 yards wide and blowing 2025 so i was in play all the time and that's why my confidence in my driver and and staying to my game plan in 86 i was the able to run through the finishing line you would have loved a leg golf national this week i feel like i would have i think i think unfortunately now with technology when i see things like the u.s open at chambers bay and the u.s. open at uh where brooks one excuse me, it just went right out of my head. Should have not. No, the one before that.

Oh, at the Aaron Hills. Aaron Hills, thank you. Fairways are too wide. So the guys can get up there and just really let go. Nothing wrong with that. Okay, it's good if you see guys driving out there 360, 370. Okay, it's fine. But when you start bringing that driver and the capabilities,

like you're talking about, the rider cup, get that ball in play, shape that T shot off the T. And it's not just like laying off of the driving iron. And you have to get that driver down there to get in a position. So that, you know, to me is a part of the design characteristics that we bring into play with technology today, but it's not necessarily implemented at times by the setup of the golf course for tournaments. So you've won, I believe, 91 international tournaments. You've won 20 times the PGA Tour.

A couple major championships. You're number one in the world for 300 and something weeks? 31, yeah. 331 weeks. What is the, in your? your opinion in your mind what's the single most important shot you ever hit jeez um all of no i've the first thing that came in my mind then was um saturday tpc the year i won it by going away i beat fuzzy um and it was the 16th hole par five i actually missed the fairway to the left

and I'm standing on the carpath in spikes and I had 217 or 327 something like that to the flag and I could have laid it up out, pitched out and just had about 150 yards under the green and I saw this shot that I could hook this two iron out over the water back on the green and hold the green. Of course you did. Yeah, I saw the shot.

You've been practicing that shot. Exactly. So that, I pulled the club out of my bag and I could hear my catty go, hmm, like, what do you do? And Greg, we talked about this. I pulled on the reins up back there. I pulled the shot off. I land on the back edge of the green. I two-putter for a birdie and I kept my momentum going.

And, you know, just shots like that, you go, first of all, you've got to be an idiot to think about it. Right. Second of all, you've got to be super confident in your ability to pull it off. and third of all, two pull it off. And there's just situations like that in about a period of 20 seconds, your whole demeanor and attitude about yourself and your confidence and your belief in yourself just get skyrocketed. I believe 24 under is still the record there.

I believe so, yeah. No big deal. No big deal. Now, that week I was pissed. I tell you why I was pissed. Even though it won. I had gone 18 holes at Bay Hill the week. before without making it bogey on Sunday, right?

I walked into the TPC and I was feeling great and I said to myself, you know, I've never gone 72 holes without making a bogey. So I put that in my mind early on the week. And by the way, Pete Dye and I were just starting building the medalist golf club. And I said to Pete, I said, Pete, you know what? I'm going to go up there and destroy your golf course. And he looked at me, yeah, yeah, great, yeah, for sure. So anyway, I had two into.

internal messages to myself, right? So on the Sunday of the TPC, I hadn't made a bogey going into the par 3, 13, 10, 11, 12, 14, 13, 14, anyway, and I three-potted for bogey. And I was so mad with myself, so mad, because I missed about a three-forter for a par, and I, and that really kicked me into gear again to say, okay, you've lost that goal. I actually have gone 72 holes, because if you're including fourth hole, fourth round of Bay Hill, I'd actually go. on 72 tournament professional rounds plus more without a bogey. I thought, okay, that kind of achieved my goal in some way. That's pretty good.

Yeah. So a lot of guys, Tiger talks a lot about how he's a percentages guy. He always plays the percentages on, you know, risk or war and all that. Were you a percentages guy or not really? I was, actually. My percentages were probably a little bit more aggressive in situations. Look, there were times when I should have laid up. There's no question about it.

There was times when I should have been a little bit more conservative in my approach. but look everybody's different about how they approach their game you know i was i was honal palmer different than jack nicholas was tom watson different to raymond floyd you know yes we're all different in our own way and and it's it's our DNA and that's what that's why people like to follow certain people right right and um yeah i just enjoyed the process and the people enjoyed my style of golf and they wanted to kind of emulate me in at some degree and some shape or form and here we are today you know um the memories of the past to still resonate so deep with people because of my approach and attitude towards the game.

So as much as you won, you had a lot of close calls. If you could have one shot back and do it over again, which one would it be? The 86 Masters, the year Jack won. I had 187 yards to the back right pin on 18, 72nd hole. and I was just playing so great all day and I was completely in control of 80 to 90% of my swing speed and I decided, because the hole was cut back right, I decided to really carve in a little soft foreiron

instead of going at it with a hard five iron which I knew a hard file iron would have carried that ridge it was like 185, 182 to carry the ridge like no problem carrying that and I said no no, no, I'll just hit a nice high cut four iron back in there and you know if you've played augusta national the 18th hole is quite a steep slope going up there and uh i think a lot of our listeners have played yeah yeah i know all the listeners out there remember when we played it a couple weeks ago tiger woods 13 video game yeah so we actually pretty

familiar with that control so anyway gravity got the better of my um because i was trying to hit a soft shot in there instead of hard shot my hip speed slowed down a little bit and i didn't fire up the hill as much as i should have done with my hip speed gravity pulled me back a little bit flared it a little bit and missed it out to the right. So that was probably one shot I'd like to have back again. It is interesting hearing you talk about the yardages because nowadays, you know, I'd be very curious to hear what sort of your stock, you know, five iron is or whatnot because today they'll cut to a guy who's, you know,

he's two, 237 out. He's got a five iron. Yeah, look, my loss were different, though. I mean, my pitching wedge loft back in those days were like 52. Okay. Now it's 48. Right. So, you know, so everything's different because of the golf ball's different.

my irons my shafts and my iron head and my grip are still exactly the same but the loft in my golf club is totally different so my my two iron in those days I think was 21 degrees and now it's like 18 degrees 17 degrees so and that's why the ball goes so far I mean I can hit a five iron now close to 200 and where my old my heyday you know 180 181 182 for a maxed out five iron was what it is right but where the big difference is and this is my honest opinion of what I see what's happening with technology. I think in my day, and I don't mean this is my era against the era today, but in my era, the control of our golf ball with our nine iron pitching wedge, eight irons, where our distance control was a lot better because we could actually spin and

flight the ball. Right. Technology today allows the guys to hit the ball straighter. The ball jumps up off the club face a little bit higher and to really generate. a lot of spin and a lot of ball flight on it, you have to have a lot of clubhead speed. So when you see, when I watch TV today, I'm actually dismayed by the number of times. I see these guys with a pitching wedge from 150, which is a pitching wedge for them, and ours was 120, 118, 120.

They're 30 feet, 40 feet. They're left, right. I mean, they're all over the place. And I often wonder and question why. And it's not all the time with all the players. It's just the inconsistency of their deletion. liverables on their scoring clubs is just amazes me right that is very interesting how much things have changed do you think the the loft changes i mean is that mostly for marketing so people

could say they hit it further or what's the is the ball different like why why are the loss different now than they were 20 years ago oh it's all about distance and the golf ball's different right the golf we for us to get distance out of the golf ball we had to hit it as hard as we possibly could now how do we hit it the more back swing we generated so it's counterintuitive right so we had learn how to flight the golf ball more because of the back swing that was put on the Balada Golf ball. That you just couldn't avoid it. You couldn't avoid it.

There was no way. I mean, I'll give me an example. And I played the old Tour Edition ball. I would have to ask my caddy if it was, if the hole was 180, 157, and there was six yards behind the green. I'd actually have to hit it 164 yards to spin it back out of the rough, back onto the green to get it close to the hole. So if I landed at the yardage, it would be spinning back 40, 50 feet.

So, you know, the art of controlling your ball flight was all about that because of the golf ball. Now today, the golf ball is less spin. It flies truer. It flies straighter. Give you another example. When I first came out on the tour, I used to take a metal ring with me to test a dozen golf balls. Because the number of times a golf ball would be out around, want to be bigger, want to be smaller. Out of a dozen balls, you may go through and get four for that tournament play.

So you make it go through four dozen golf balls to get a dozen for that day. So, you know, nowadays the golf ball is actually perfect. Right. So, and the way that comes off the club face is just a, it's more of a parabolic angle, and instead of a penetrating launch up, coming down and stopping in place. But it's just interesting. I mean, I see the difference when I go out there and practice my short game today compared to my short game and my heyday.

You can't spin the ball the way you used to spin the ball. Right. Ladies and gentlemen, this is my favorite part of the podcast. This is the part of the podcast where we get to talk about Titleist. Titleist on a podcast where we had the great Greg Norman, our favorite part is talking about Titleist. No joke. I'm not kidding. I pushed for our Titleist deal, our Titleist partnership for like eight months because I've been in love with Titleists for 20 years. So the fact that we now get to sit here on this podcast and tell you about the new Titleist TS driver and Fairway Woods is the coolest thing in the world. have not. I have not been able to hit a golf ball for three weeks. Yes. I've been traveling where you're in

Alabama. Right. Then I was in Paris for six days. You are. I legit had lurched my roommate. I had him go into my bedroom and send me a picture of my golf clubs because I've been thinking about him so much. And I actually made them take off the driver head cover because I wanted to see how shiny the TS driver looked. Take those, take those clothes off for me. That's basically what I did. I like needed a nudie of my golf clubs because of how amazing they are. We have. We have. We have. We have. We have. We have a new video out today. When this podcast comes out, our tidalist TS drivers video will be out of us hitting the clubs, hanging out with the clubs because we're so obsessed with them. So go check that out. No joke. I picked up 24 yards with my

titleist TS3 driver. Frankie came into the room. Frankie said, there is no way you're going to get my current driver out of my hands. It's not possible. He borderline threatened the guy who was fitting up for our clubs was like, you're not going to get this club out of my hand or out of my bag. He did. he threatened him. He's like, if you put something other than the current club that I have a driver in my hands, I'm going to fight you. And then Frankie hit it 301 and went crazy. Place went nuts. Nowadays, I mean, you've seen the smile on his face. He put up the Darth Vader video. It's his favorite club he's ever had ever. The Titleist T. T.S. Drivers are the best. They are just making waves. I mean, everybody's talking about how Tidalist nailed it. They dominated with this club. It's unbelievable. I got people texting me left and right. I got fitted here. I got fitted there. So here's what you guys do. You go to Titalist. com slash four.

And we are hooking everybody up. There is a sweepstakes. That is the best sweepstakes of all time. You go to tidalist.com slash four. You enter a chance to win a free, fitting, and complete set, customized set of tidalist clubs. How much does it cost? It's free. Oh, it costs zero dollars.

You just go to tidalist.com slash four, and you just fill this out. It takes like a minute. And boom, you are good to go. Not only that, but they are giving away a weekly winner of a year's supply of Titleist Golf Balls ProView. 1s, Poverby 1Xs, AVXs, whatever you want, you get a year supply. We've already had people. I've been tweeting them out. I've been putting them up on Instagram. People are emailing us like, dude, you just said tidalist.com slash 4.

I went to tidalist.com slash 4, and here's this email I got telling me that I just have free tidalist golf balls for you. It took you 40 seconds to do it. Maybe. So go to titlis.com slash 4. I am not kidding you. It is free. And boom, you enter a chance to win a fitting, which is what we got and a full complete set of customized Titleist clubs, which is what we got. You get your TS drivers. You're going to get your irons. I've got the AP2s.

You get your wedges. Mine are customized. All of ours are customized. You get stamped on there whatever you want. I got lobber. I got Sander. I got Gapper. And then I got my Scotty Cameron and Scotty Season.

You get all this stuff. If you just go to Titleist.com slash four, boom. Enter and you're good to go. So 87 Masters. Larry Mize. They always say you're supposed to in a match play setting, expect your opponent to make it. Did you expect him to make that tip on?

No, no, not at all. You know, when he hit his second shot in there before my second shot, when I knew I saw where I was, I knew where the whole location was, I knew that I, now you're talking about going to conservative then, then I went really conservative. I aimed at the back right bunker, and I said, okay, even if you push it six feet to the right, you're going to have 45 feet instead of 35 feet.

no big deal. So I played that one a little bit more conservative than I would. If Larry hit it to where my ball was on the green, I would have been a lot more aggressive with my second shot and probably put about 20 feet, 18 feet, 20 feet right of the flag or maybe a little bit short. So his second shot set me up to be a little bit more conservative, knowing that his chances of getting that up and down were very, very slim

because it was a tough, tough shot, let alone just make it. That even came into my head, right? So, you know, I'm lining up the putt, thinking, okay, I'm going to figure out just going to die it down there. It's about a seven-foot break. I'm just going to let it finish down there, about 18 inches under the hole, and I'm going to put two putt, and I got a good chance of winning the tournament. Right. And that was going through my mind as this whole thing was Larry was lining up the shots. And when it went in, I went, oh, fudge.

And then you have to completely change your entire philosophy, mentality, regroup, re-line up the putt. You know, and it was very hard to do all that. And it was just the loudest, loudest cheer that ever heard anywhere in the world. So then you also had the one with Bob Tway, who holds out from the bunker. Again, I mean, is that, do they start to add up in your mind a little bit? As like, man, I'm just getting unlucky here. Well, it was back to back, right? When you go back to back, people hauling out to beat you, you kind of sometimes you sit back and sit on the beach with a, you know, reflecting mood.

go, you know, is destiny against me on this stuff? Right. Because even with Bob's shot, I mean, if it doesn't hit the flag, it's 12, 15 feet past the hole. Right. Both of them, really? Both moving. Yeah, both moving pretty quick. And look, you accept the fact that sport, I can't control what other people do. I can only control what I have over myself. And, you know, those guys were trying to play the best shot they possibly could. I bet you neither one of them expected they were going to make it. But at the end of the day. History shows they did make it and I was a

recipient of getting fucked. That's right. I think that's correct. What's the most nervous you ever were in your career? You know, never on the golf course. See, I have always looked at being nervous and being excited

about being two different things. I always got extremely excited to play. So if I got excited that means I was nervous? No. that means I was engaged, ready to go. If I walked from the driving range to the first tee, and I wasn't excited and I was flat, I knew I was in for a hard day.

Right. So to me it was always keep the excitement level up. However you want to keep it up, keep it up. Nerves, no. I mean in nervous situations in my life, but not on a golf course. What's the build-up like on a day, especially in a major championship, where you don't tee off until the final group?

Because I feel like, you know, You're probably excited. You wake up at, you know, probably pretty early in the morning, and then you've got six or seven hours until you tee off. What are those mornings like? Oh, they're brutal, quite honestly. You know, sometimes it's more than that. Sometimes it's like eight hours.

Yeah. You wake up at six, you don't tee off until 2.30, 3 o'clock. British Open's even worse. It's 320, right? Right. So, you know, you're up early and you're struggling through it. What do you do? Back in those days, we didn't have an iPhone, right?

We didn't have iPods. We didn't have AirPods. I think you just went, let time go, quite honestly. Times I'd go for a walk within the community. If I ran to the house, times you just sit there and I never, not watch TV. I wouldn't watch SportsCenter or sport or anything like that or any coverage of the tournament. Interesting. Until some of the early morning groups are going out,

I'd look at, okay, what's the wind doing, where the whole locations, see where the break of a put, blah, blah, blah, blah, and just kind of store that back in your mind. And not only watch certain players because not everybody strokes the ball the same way, right? So you look for a player who's a dying putter instead of a guy who's a jamming putter, so you see what that ball's doing the last, you know, six to eight feet of its break. Yeah, I was, I'm always curious how much on the putting greens you rely, is there a percentage of how much you rely on, on, you know, maybe the pole of Rays Creek or something like that, or if it's an ocean course, the pole towards the ocean and your practice round notes

versus, hey, I'm standing here right now reading it, and it feels like it does this. Like, how, I guess how much would you sort of almost have to defy what you're reading in the situation based off your previous knowledge? Yeah, a lot of it's instinct, you know, experience instinct. Certain green surfaces do consistently the same. thing. And then there's certain green surfaces that are so inconsistent from one day to the next because the leaf blade grows quicker. So you watch something in the morning and the ball would break, you know, not so much. And then the afternoon when that leaf blade grew up a little bit,

the grain got a little bit stronger, you go, oh boy, that guy, you know, you're looking at a four inch break. It might be a four and a half, five inch break because of the grass is growing. Stuff like that, you'd have to take into consideration. Different parts. of the world. You know, like the ball rolls differently in Australia than it does here in the United States than it does in Ireland, than it does in Scotland. So it's just experience about where you play. What's your favorite golf shot to hit?

I always loved 10 to 15 foot left or right puts. Really? For a righty, that's interesting. Yeah, my stroke was open shot. I was like a door. That's how I always putted. A lot of players today are that. square to square method, which I think is, you know, doesn't marry up to their golf swing.

Yeah, Tiger talks about open it and closing. Yeah, you got to have, look, to me, keep it simple, stupid, right? The kiss rule. And if you've got a great goal swing, that's a rotational golf swing where that club face goes back, rotates into position, sets great at the top, comes down, gets square at impact, and then closes through impact, you watch a lot of the great players today that are struggling with their putting. their putting stroke

doesn't emulate their full swing. So basically a putting stroke is a mini golf swing. Right. And Tiger's a great putter because he replicates so the more pressure you're under, it's easier to replicate something that you've done thousands and thousands

and thousands of times. And if you get under pressure and you get a square to square putter and you go back square and you come back and your head might go back, might swipe across the ball a little bit, It's just I see it all the time on TV. It's just mind-blowing to me how some of these great players

with some of these great coaches don't actually pick up on that. Right. What's your least favorite golf shot to hit? There hasn't been one, actually. That's why I knew you were going to say that. He's the most confident person in the world. I didn't even see that comment. I didn't even see that comment.

I was like, wow, I wonder what he's going to say? There's no such thing. It doesn't exist. Like, Rick, I just hit a ball 220 yards out of a divot That's like a week and a half ago, we were at Alabama football. We got a tour and they were talking about what they do and they win and they all sign this thing. And I was like, oh, what happens if you lose? And they were just like, their brains didn't work.

What are you talking about? We don't lose. We don't lose. That's just not a thing. So the latest trends, one of the biggest debates in golf has been how golf courses to keep up with the technology. You have to expand. That's unsustainable. A lot of theories about dialing back to golf ball.

What do we do? What is Greg Norman's theory on what to do about distance and controlling it? Well, look, I look at this from two perspectives. First of all, I was a player, and I was played right up to the time in 1996 when the rule change and the golf ball really came into play. Then I've gone into the golf course as I'm business, and so I marry the two philosophies that I've seen and to where we are today in business, right? So I truly believe they should roll back the specification of the golf ball

for professional golfers to the pre-1996 days. Now, if I, if somebody, both you guys came to me and said, okay, at Augusta National next year, we're going to implement a rule. All the players are going to use a gut of perch a ball made by their manufacturer and going to use Hickory Gar-Shartaghted golf clubs made by their manufacturer. We're going to give you six months to get used to them. We're going to have the golf course at this length back in the good old days of what is it, 6,200, 6,000 yards. something like that. And the best players would still win. The best player,

my point I'm making here is, why do we need to go and take up more space, cost more money to build these golf courses? And it's not just the cost to building the golf courses. It's the ongoing maintenance costs that get handed down. And you use the word sustainability. Right. Back in the mid-80s and mid-90s,

when America was building 400, golf courses a year, year on year. It was an unsustainable approach. Everybody was over-leverage because they had unlimited cash to build these golf courses that were costing $25 million to build, you could have built for six or eight, right? So they were throwing money at these things. They were doing hand maintenance on these golf courses. It was costing $2.3 million to maintain these golf courses.

the general public member couldn't sustain the annual Jews to do that. Walla, what happens? The GFC hits, disposable income comes into play. People are members of two or three golf courses, one or two golf courses. Now all of a sudden they're paying $18,000 to $30,000 a year and annual Jews. They're going to go, oh man, I've got to dry up here. I'm going to shut this thing down. So shame on us because the designers,

And architects and builders back in those days thought nothing like the word sustainable. So here we are today. We've gone through this evolution of understanding how stupid we were back in the 80s and 90s. And now it's a lot more sophisticated, a lot more understanding. So when we build golf courses today, we actually take that sustainability philosophy in place. I mean, to me, my motto for my guys is the least disturbance approach, right? Make it look like when you open the golf course, it's been there for 20 years. Right.

So, and then make sure that the ongoing cost that are handed down to the members and to the next generation of the members is that sustainable number, where the golf course can economically sustain itself. And there's so many golf courses out there, not just here in the United States, but worldwide, that are in economical distress. And I hate to see that because it was a bullshit approach in the 80s and 90s where people got greedy and they thought they had all this money to build whatever Taj Mahal they want to build themselves.

And not only that, it's just not the golf course. It's the clubhouses. You know, 80 to 100,000 square foot clubhouses, it's an, you know, in the last 104 golf courses we built, in the last open, in the last probably 50, I bet you're the average clubhouse. would be around 30,000 square feet. Right. So gone is this massive overhead of maintenance and electricity and water usage and all that stuff. And rightfully so too.

What's your favorite golf course in the world? To play on a daily basis. I'm going to put three on that top list. I like Royal Melbourne and Australia. I love Shinnecock and I love St. Andrews. All three would be, they're all totally different golf courses. but all three of them I could play every day of my life for the rest of my life. Interesting.

Which course do you think suited you the best in your career? That every time you kind of walked on, you were like, this is as good as it gets for me. I would say most of them were, but the ones that I didn't like, the ones that I didn't like, were the ones. Just setting them up for the copy answer. I know. This is actually getting insane. That was great. That was amazing.

What's your favorite course? All of them. The ones I didn't like were the ones that were more right to left, consistently right to left, where you had to go around in a circle. I didn't like those because they weren't designed with the right imagination for shot playing, shot selection. To me, a great golf course is where it's like a bowl of cook spaghetti. You move meanders and goes all over the place.

So no matter what wind condition you have, no matter what direction or the time of the day you're playing, morning or afternoon, you've got a different look, a different feel. And that Shinnecock has, you know, every hole goes in a different direction. Well, Shinnecock is a golf course where you could go there any time, any week of any month, and play a tournament of golf there. It's that good a golf course. And, you know, Shinnecock keeps the golf course, I call it the hardest, fairest golf course in the world.

Interesting. You were pretty outspoken during your career. What, is there anything that stands out or maybe a top moment that stands out where you think, like, man, I wish I wouldn't have said that or I could take that back? Yeah, I do. I got into, I made a comment about the European players. And these are all my friends, too, because when we played, when I played in Europe, you travel with four to six guys, six to eight guys, you play back in them together, you travel on the train together, you drove cars together, stuff like that. and I wrote my first book, which I was very much against doing because I was too young to do it. And I was beating these guys on a fairly consistent basis.

And I noticed at the end of a round, I would be on the driving range on my own with maybe one or two other guys. And the other guys would be in the clubhouse doing whatever they wanted to do. And I made the stupid comment about, you know, these guys are gutless, you know. And I didn't mean it that. It came across that way. I meant I was more like, guys, get out there and practice, and this is your profession, work really hard at it, you know. I'm going to beat you because I practice harder than you all the time.

So if somebody was hitting 400 balls, I'd hit 600 balls. If somebody hit 600, I'd hit 700. So if I always stayed ahead of everybody, I knew I was going to stay ahead of everybody. So that would probably be one, because it hurt my friends. Right. The Sunday Scaries. Do you ever get that creeping feeling of dread and anxiety as Sunday comes to a close? You face kind of the coming doom of the work week?

Yes, and I think everyone knows what we're talking about. I probably just put so much fear into people's skin and brains. They got flashbacks of last Sunday. Like, yep, I know that feeling well. Do you know the best way to cure that is the Sunday Scaries? They are these gummies, okay? these gummies with CBD, which is very, very hot right now, by the way.

It's hot in the streets. It is hot. Like really hot. They're these, like, delicious, fun gummies with CBD, which is hot right now, derived from hemp and delivers many, many of the benefits you get from THC, but without the high. That means it's completely legal to consume in your state and that you can take it at school.

You can take it at work. You can take it wherever else you want without worry. This is Sunday Scaries. They're gummies. They've got the CBD going. It's the best. We have been rocking them. I'm talking, we run out of them in the office.

I was going to say, the whole damn office is eating these things, and the place is a little calmer, a little cooler, a little chiller, and it's nice. That's what this place needs. You know, when people come around in the office, I want to say, anybody got gum, anybody got gum, anybody got gum, anybody got gum? Anybody got come? Does anybody have any Sunday scaries? People say that all the time. They do.

Like, people come begging me, Rick, do you have any Sunday scaries? I say no, because I have to save them for myself because they are some. so good they are that good the sunday scerries you got to try them trust me they are life-saving i absolutely love my sunday scurries i know once you try them you will too right now our listeners that's you guys can get 10% off of your entire order by using the promo code four that's f o r e at checkout here's what you need to do go to sundayscaries dot com that sundayscaries dot com enter my promo code four at checkout to get your discount that's 10% off of your entire higher order, Sundayscarries.com promo code four, get ready to relax.

What's the most outrageous thing you ever heard from the gallery or the fans? Oh, God, I can't tell you that. Can't say it on the podcast? No, I can't say that. I mean, it's been nuts. You've got to remember in my era, you know, we didn't have, cell phones weren't allowed on the golf course. Right.

Cameras weren't allowed on the golf course. It was more of a free-spirited situation back in, and it was fantastic. quite honestly, because you could actually engage or it could be positive, it could be negative. There were situations, there were sites you'd see like, are you kidding me? Am I looking what I'm looking at? You know, or are you kidding me? Am I hear what you're saying? Yeah, then there were death threats.

I mean, I got a lot of death threats, situations that you couldn't really understand. Situations where, you know, early in the morning at a golf tournament, I'm coming out of the hotel, going to my car, and you could feel somebody following you. I'd pull a golf club out of my bag and turn around and there was somebody right there. Those situations, you know, you dealt with them, but I never, never had security. I didn't want to have security because I didn't want, the more people you have around you, the more of a, I think, the more of a pressure-packed situation you create. But in all in all, I mean, the negative side of things was far outweighed by the positive side.

It was really fantastic. and no matter where I went in the world, you know, some of the most profound comments and situations and statements really came from the gallery. And it was a really neat experience. Do you think, I mean, there's been a lot of comments, especially this year now that Tiger's back, that the fans are over the top.

Do you think now that they're more rowdy than they were on your day? I don't know. I haven't been out there, and I don't watch a whole lot of TV, golf on TV. so I really can't make that comment. I know I loved my era and I know I watched a lot of Jack and Arnold and I love the era where people could come in behind you on the 18th. If you're in the last group on a Sunday,

people were allowed to walk with you down the fairway. And it was such a cool experience, right? It was a bit of a central overload in a lot of ways because you're walking with thousands and thousand people and they don't shut up they just keep talking talking to you get there um so it was really you're engaging with all your fans at all the time and um so at the end of the day you know i saw that with arnold and uh we saw it in my era to a degree and then it kind of like they they stopped doing it and nowadays you know they've they've got their cell phones and they got their connectivity and and you know i it always

amazed me if i see somebody on tv and they're looking at their phone and they're you know taking a photograph of whoever, instead of you're there watching live, why don't you just watch it live, you know, and go do it. But, yeah, it's a different era. So my good buddy's cousin Mike and cousin Murray wanted me to ask you, what happened to Bill Clinton's leg in 97 at your house?

He slipped down my front stairs. There's a little DJ, a half a DJ slip down the stairs, too. Getting a lot of stairs slips going on these days. Should we take that at face value, or should we? No, you can take it as face value. Look, I mean, there is a situation where it's the President of the United States number one. He's in your house number two.

We had sat up and we, you know, President Clinton didn't drink at all. Contrary to all the fake news at the time, you know, that he was drinking, blah, blah, blah. He didn't have a drink. He drank Coca-Cola and we had a sandwich until about 2.30, something like that. And we were playing golf early in the morning. And he's an insomniac. He's probably two, three hours sleep a day. and I'd go on a little sidebar when I was with him up in the White House

and I was staying overnight with him. We'd go to bed around two. He'd come to my room at 4.10 in the morning, like two hours later. Get up, come on, let's go. I go, Mr. President. So we'd walk through the halls of the White House having a conversation. And I thought that was pretty cool because, you know, he's a guy who's a real guy. I don't care whether you like his politics, not like his politics.

At the end of the day, he was an engaging human being. So in that situation in my house, you know, I invited him to come down and play the member guests with me at the medalist golf club because we have friends. We still are friends today. And it was just about friends and golf. Anyway, we're walking down the stairs and he still had his suit on, no tie. And he'll caught the bottom step and went from Woodward down into Kokina. The kakinna's a little rougher, and his heel caught, and he just fell forward.

He tore his, he's quat off his kneecap, what it was, and it was excruciatingly painful. He fell on my left leg. I actually caught him, and my left knee has been destroyed ever since. Everybody talks about his leg. My knee's destroyed. And we sat there, and it was actually a testament to how quickly the, how quickly the, the Secret Service reacted, the cat team, the counter-assault team, because they heard him scream, they thought something happened,

I'm holding him, and within probably eight seconds, six to eight to ten seconds, we were surrounded by people. And then I won't go into any more detail after that because how they controlled the situation, got him under control. I will say this, he had a brand new Navy blue suit on. So the doctor comes running out in his underwear, right? And he goes with the scissors, because they think he could have been shot in the leg or whatever, right?

There's no blood or anything like that. So he goes and with the scissors and cuts up, he's trousers, don't you mess up my suit, brand new suit. I thought, okay, that's a lighthearted moment. And it was incredible. for the next four hours, really, the process that went down and how he controlled himself and how much pain he was in. And then, very impactful moment. He was going to go to the hospital, then he came back to the house, then they wanted to bring him back to the house,

and then he wanted to go to Air Force One. So around about 630, 640 in the morning, I get a call. And he's on Air Force One. About ready to take off to Washington, D.C. and he was dying to meet my kids and my kids were going and getting ready to go to school. So he said, bring him to the plane

before I leave because I never got to meet your kids. Now think about this. He's a guy, all he's doing is taking aspirin because you can't take narcotics where you're an active president you've got to hand over to the vice president, right?

Interesting. And he said, bring your kids to the plane. So I go, okay, kids, slow it up. the president would like to meet you, blah, blah, blah. So we drive to Palm Beach International Airport, walk up on the Air Force One. There he is sitting in the nose of the aircraft in a track suit, ice on his leg,

and he just sat there and talked to my kids. And I thought, my God, what a human being, right? What an unbelievable human being where he would take that moment in time to actually do what he did to my family. And so they walked them around Air Force One. I could picture my son sitting in these, his chair on Air Force One at his desk and all that stuff.

So it was pretty those moments that people don't talk about. Right. But those moments make the human being who he is. What a scene that is. I'm just imagining the shark in the president of the United States, just laying there with like broken legs. How did we get here? So you've been a golf star, golf legend for 40-some-odd years now.

What is the thing that you're most proud of? The transition. stepping away from the game of golf the way I did. I never said I'm going to retire. I never said I'm going to re-quit. The transition from being in the management side of life with a management company, identifying an opportunity for myself with brand identity, building equity in my own brand, having the ballsy move to go and finance everything myself, start my own business,

and 93 to where it is today. So the transition process has been one thing that I'm probably the most proud of. And here we are today, you know, with all the people I have working for me. And I give my people a 200-year vision about what I want to do with the company. Not at one way we're going to be next year. Where are we going to be in 200 years? How are we going to achieve these goals? How are we going to get there?

So I give them the belief and the sense. sustainability of our brand of what we can do and where we want to go. So it's a lot of fun seeing my people evolve, you know, falling in love of the business and seeing them have an opportunity for maybe their kids to come in the business and down the line. And so I never, ever, ever fathomed that I would ever be in that position. I thought you were maybe going to say the ESPN body issue. You think you're most proud of. Ah, ESPN body issue. Actually, that was, I did enjoy that. You knocked that one out. You knocked out of the point.

I did. We looked at the pictures last week. We heard you coming. We were like, the sharks still got. I got to be honest. Actually, I've said,

damn you, Greg Norman for that picture because my buddies and I, we're all in this, like, fantasy football league. And whoever finishes in last, this year has to take an ESPN body issue type picture.

And for me, they're choosing the Greg Norman picture. There you go. Which one? Well, you know the one where you're like, your whole body's, you're on the, you have the driver.

I mean, it's something. Look, I'll tell you, the most interesting shoot of that six-hour shoot, because I was doing a full swing with my driver. Well, my golf club wasn't the only thing swinging. You know, I have practiced kind of naked before, but it's interesting how your body, it felt different. I'm sure it did. So, look, if you're not comfortable in your own skin, don't do it.

And I felt really, really good about it. I was honored to be thought of, number one, but a lot of that had to do because of Jane McNeill and the director of my corporate communication. She knew how I love health and wellness. I love fitness. She knew how much I put into keeping my body fit on a daily basis. So she went out on her own and she actually, for six months,

kept asking, pushing, pushing, without me knowing. and then all of a sudden she calls up and says, hey, I got some good news for you. So it didn't take me long about maybe five seconds. They said, yeah, sure. But it was really a fun shoot. You found yourself in some interesting places, Mr. Norman, some interesting scenes.

I have, you know, and that goes to the question about your Instagram account, you know, and I wish I had Instagram in my heyday because it is such a neutralizer because you can actually tell the world, exactly what you're saying and what you're doing and how you're doing it. So there's no speculation and there's no assumptions. And, you know, assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups, right? So when people assuming you're doing you're this way and you're actually not,

you know, you can never get the knot out there because people assume. So I would have loved it because your message is going to be 100% correct. And it's not going to be fake news, right? And that's, you know, I've seen that my 14. years. I've seen a lot of things written about me that are incorrect. Well, you're a great follow on there, so everybody should go follow Greg Norman. And we're big fans, like we said. You're a big part of our childhood watching golf growing up and getting into the game and all that.

So we really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you, guys, love it. This aura he brings, I'm in front of just a living legend. It's honestly been incredible. I feel so much more confident. I feel like I need to be more confident. We talk on this podcast often. I hate golf mats and hitting off math.

at the driving ranges. I hate the driving ranges, right? Because I don't have access to these grass driving ranges. And when you're talking about just dropping them by, I'm going to be walking around like my town now, just dropping golf balls by trees and in the swamps. I'll tell you an interesting way of practicing. If you're on a driving range and you can get into a situation of learning how to hit

the trajectory of the shot. So even if it's a building or a tree, like I used to try and prune a tree on the driving range with my firebine. So there'd be a limb sticking out on the left-hand side of the tree, and I would try and chip off the outside of the limb with each shot to learn how to get it. And then I used to hit 5-5-and-5. I used to hit 5 cuts, 5-draars, 5 high, 5-low, and then I'd go to reverse. So I wouldn't walk away from that with a 5-on or whatever club unless I hit all 5 the right way, the way I wanted to,

and then I go, okay, what's next? So it's all about the ball flight. So if you're sitting on a driving range with a mat, for example, and there's a net out there, you want to try and pitch you, okay, I'm going to keep it 10 feet below that net. Like even today when I love tennis, I like to hit tennis, what I challenge myself is, how close can I get to the net before I hit it with the ball? Right. Right.

So everybody says you've got to hit about a foot above it. To me, it's like, okay, I can see that ball. I can skim it across that net as low as I possibly can. So it's no different what I did with hitting golf balls and practicing is what I'm doing today on the tennis course. So try that. Incredible. I will. You should be good to go down, right?

I'm going to trimming every tree I say. Prud's a tree. Frankies. We're seeing a bunch of pruned trees out on Long Island. Oh, Frank is broken on his golf game. Well, the Great White Shark, once again, we really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you, guys. Loved it.

And invite me back, too. Oh, absolutely. We've got a lot to talk about, right? We didn't even touch global stuff. We didn't touch politics. We did a little bit, but not the fun stuff. Right. So anyway, there's a lot of stuff to talk about where the USDA is going, where the RNA is going,

what's happening with the Ryder Cup, all that stuff, you know. I think there's so much interesting content out there now that's, you know, it's good fodder, it's good conversation. Where is golf going to be in 10 years' time? Well, look, we do this twice a week, so be careful what you wish for. We'll have you on as many times as you would. All right, guys. Thank you very much.

Enjoyed it.