Fore Play - “Tiger, would you change anything?” featuring Armen Keteyian

Episode Date: January 21, 2021

Armen Keteyian (50:51), an 11-time Emmy winner, coauthor of the Tiger Woods biography, and executive producer of the Tiger HBO documentary, joins the show for the second time. We discuss the reactions (positive and negative) to the documentary, Armen’s genuine thoughts on Tiger’s life path, what it’s like trying to land certain interviews for the book & documentary, and much more. Before Armen joins, we react to Tiger undergoing a 5th back procedure and delve more into our TaylorMade fitting at The Kingdom!You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. It is myself. We got Trent, Frankie, and Lurch. The promotional stuff that you see will be produced by our very good friend Jake Bass. A lot of the longer form videos that you see are done and edited by our very good friend, Brendan Jones. So big thanks, a big shout out to those guys. We're also joined on this show by Armand Coutaian. He is a little different type of guest.

He's great. He's very smart. He's a journalist. He has done several now, I guess, you know, made for TV, documentaries, video storytelling as well. The reason we have them on is, of course, the Tiger Woods documentary that aired on HBO, the two-parter, which we talked about a lot on Tuesday show.

He co-authored the book, Tiger Woods, which gets referenced quite often on this show, which the documentary was based off of and he was also an executive producer for the documentary. So we get into a lot of Tiger Woods, the story, the whole ordeal with Armicadee,

and that's coming up in 30 minutes or so. It actually at one point, he says that he was very pissed off at me for my tweets about not watching the documentary and telling other people not to watch it. Lurch looks like he's going to die. I mean, I don't know how, I just have to, I have to state that you're,

sitting there with your head in your hands. I mean, I'm battling. I mean, it's 853 Eastern right now, and I don't know if I've ever had a worse headache in my life than what I've experienced for the last, I would say, 53 minutes where headaches, migraines. I've never experienced them, but I have a full-blown headache, my, I mean, I feel,

this is maybe the worst I've ever felt. And I sound good. I feel like I'm on the tail end of COVID. I'm going to kick this thing. But the headaches that are setting in are to build the day. I can't look at the screen. I have to close my eyes. I have to look elsewhere.

I mean, you know me for, you know, whatever, 15 years. I don't get, like, it's not something,

but right now, I am in excruciating pain where, have you ever seen that, like, dumb clip where, like, the couple are talking. It's like the guy and the girl and the girls, the guy's like,

you know, I think there's just a nail in your head. And then she's like, no, you don't understand. It feels like there's a nail getting just hammered into the front of my skull right now. And it is, it's awful. So, hey, let's have a Wednesday night, Thursday morning, whenever you listen. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry that you're suffering through that.

Look, it's no joke that, you know, the three of us here battling through. It hits everyone differently. I feel mostly fine. I have a little bit of a lingering. a cough that's not in any way, it doesn't feel unhealthy. It's just a little bit annoying occasionally. Trent, I think, feels mostly fine. Lurch, again, came and look at the fucking screen.

So if you need to depart, feel free because we don't want to... I will at some point. I mean, I'm okay. I'm really okay. It's just a little pain. All right, that's good. All right. Like I said, we have about 45 minutes with Armaged Catan, and it's good.

It's very, very good. He's been immersed for three plus years in the Tiger Woods story. reading transcripts, watching, going to tournaments, reading books on things that were involved in Tiger Woods's life, watching footage from tournaments. He's just as immersed in the Tiger Woods life as you possibly be. Got a little heated. I don't know if heated's the right word.

Pinterest? Oh, boy. My internet is terrible. My internet could not be worse. Trent got the Corona. Give it a look. He got the corona out of his body and gave it to his internet. Is that fucking hamster working?

Oh, yeah. You can't respond to me, corn boy. You're such a frozen boy. Hey, corn boy. Why don't you answer us and fucking learn how to fucking buy some internet? Well, there he is. You heard that? Did you hear that, Trent?

I heard corn boy. You're a mess, dude. How was the Army Catan interview? Because I wasn't on it. I was doing pizza review. and stuff. That guy's incredible. So do we blame him for any...

Do we blame him for anything that happened on the HBO special? No. No, not at all. We, you know, there were some tidbits where we said we wish it would have been this or that. But ultimately, and this is, I sort of said this early on, which is that I think a lot of the things that we would have had negative complaints about were things that he also are, like, would have been fighting against. Like, wanted it to be longer.

you know, wanted to include more things. So we kind of agreed on that front. He did say that he was, he literally said he was pissed off at me because, you know, I was tweeting about basically boycotting the HBO documentary. He was glad that we came around and decided to watch it. So that was the only real, like, contentious part. But overall, it was great. I mean, we, I feel like we're all on a pretty similar wavelength with that guy

when it comes to Tiger and the story. Like, he's enthralled by it. We're enthralled. by it. So overall, it was good. It was a very good interview. He was, you know, he's insightful. He's an intellectual.

We're kind of idiots. So having that with us, it was good. Yeah, I thought it was great. I mean, I look up again and there's Trent's God. So his internet's terrible. But yeah, I mean, I think he's an awesome guy. I think he's super impressive. He's obviously very, very smart.

But then just the way he explains things, and he kind of lives life or lives his comments by the seat of his pants a little bit. Like he's very excitable. He's got a partner that's, you know, much more even keeled than him that brings him back to Earth for storytelling purposes. But he was a joy to talk to. So next time we get him on, Frankie, you got to be on for that because I think you'd love to hear him talk as well. For sure. Yeah, he's good. The first time we had him, he was super interesting.

He is. So folks are going to enjoy it. So stick around. That's coming up, like I said, 20 or 30 minutes. Big thanks to Owens. Owens mixers. Seeing a lot of people remind your transfusion Thursday. Pour that little transfusion mixer from Owens right in there with a little vodka,

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but that's probably going to make him throw up right now based on what I'm seeing. You can do the main cucumber in lime with a little vodka. That's a delicious drink. You make some mules, Moscow mules, vodka mules, whatever you want. Owensmixers.com. They have a huge price drop. go check them out on Amazon. Look for Owens.

Look for the transfusion. I'm seeing them in different stores now. People are tweeting, you know, they're on the shelves. They're with a bunch of other stuff. So it's great. Owens is starting to get out there more and more. We appreciate them supporting us. We appreciate being able to whip up awesome cocktails super simply, quickly,

easy, efficiently. So big thanks to Owens. Love you guys. Okay. We got a few headlines to run through. First, a little programming reminder that our video from Taylor Maids, the kingdom where we all got fitted, is out on our YouTube page. Got like 100,000 views already.

People love equipment. They're ate up with that shit. They're ate up with, you know, watching the process of someone, in this case, four people getting fit, shaft changes, swing tweaks, coaching, putting lab, all of it's in there. It's a really cool, really interesting. A little bit of a geeking out type thing, golf geeking out, a little nerd out.

So get involved in that. Go watch that video. The only thing we forgot or didn't forget, but. Only thing we didn't include is what we got fit with, which threw people for a loop a little bit. So we're going to have to do it what's in the bag. For sure. Yeah, that was a mistake.

No one. I should include it. It's true. Dude, I was watching, I'm like, hmm, what, do we have a part in this video where we show what we got fitted with? And then I was told no. And I was like, okay, we're going to have to do another video then because it was just, I mean, it was a 25-minute teaser for our upcoming. Yeah.

I mean, it's still super. interesting. It's more of like a kingdom porn, not really. It was a fitting, but like more lessons, takeaways. No one knows what we got fitted with. They have no clue what driver I have. They have no clue what shaft we got. Everything. Lye angle, the whole thing. No clue. Zero information. Trent's gone again. But that'll leave a nice, that'll, that opens up a nice little lane for what's in the bag. We just got to get all the specs. Totally. I think the only thing that like I really remember from the video of like, oh, that was like getting fitted in the direction was the piece where Riggs got fitted and he like put like that, you know, that tender loving care like into the club. And I

thought that was really cool because you saw actually what goes into dialing someone's clubs in on like a real fitting basis when he was talking about just the simplicity of understanding the divot and seeing where you were taking grass first nod and trying to even that out. Like I thought that, you know, whatever that was, minute, minute and a half clip. was so interesting how he was kind of like beating on it knocking down to a degree. That was really cool. But yeah, to your point, everybody left there and nobody knows what called. At the same point, I don't really, like, I kind of know what I've got.

Yeah, I don't really know. 100%. No, I never got a confirmation what irons I'm using. He just jotted things down and walked away. I know at least the iron head, but I think I'm KBS, like the shaft, like 120s or, I don't know. You told me my shaft has a little bit of rib in it. I don't know what's that means, but, So we'll do what's in the back. It was. Like, they just, they took over and ran the show and it didn't matter. Like, your brain as the actual swinger of the clubs, like, your brain didn't matter.

He's like, no, no. No. It doesn't matter if you know, like, I know. And I'm going to write all the specs down. And then your clubs are just going to appear. So that's why we don't really have any idea. I did, you know, I texted one of our guys a couple days ago. And I was just like, hey, what?

Like, I know you're sending me all the stuff, but what, like, what do you send? I like what did I get? I don't know what I don't know what I got. I don't know what I got. And so yeah, that will be, we probably should have gotten all that information and then put it into the video. But like you said, it opens a nice lane for us to do what's in the bag, which we will. I did think that the part about like him just tweaking the lie angle on my clubs and that immediately changing the divot from a toe heavy divot pattern to just a perfect, perfect crisp divot pattern was. so encompassing of what that fitting and experience actually does for you.

Like, yeah, it's cool and it's beautiful and it feels like you're being spoiled, but it's actually functional and it just fucking works when they tweak stuff. Right. It just makes perfect sense. And it was, that was really cool for me to watch. I will say, I'm interested to know, because we haven't really talked about this, were you guys nervous at all? Like, I was trying to be the best lurch golfer.

possibly could on that day because I wanted the fitting to be with my best swing. Do you know what I mean? So like I was, I had, I felt like more pressure on me to like, I don't know, swing well to so that like the clubs were perfect when I was perfect. You know what I mean? That's happened to me. We've gotten fitted twice. This time was just, I mean, the first time was, this was just such a great experience.

But both times I've now, I've now played my best golf at those ranges, like ever. you know like striping two 60 three woods off the turf like I mean the guy looked at me like you're fine that number was outrageous chip when he did sorry when he did the track man and you ripped the three wood off the deck like I what it was like 255 carry and like 280 roll yeah he had sea level too we were literally like we were 10 feet from the ocean I knocked over that trackman right before when I walked on, I stumbled over it. And I was like, oh, that's a $30,000 mistake right there. And whatever it is.

And he's like, no problem. Like, we got 10 of them or whatever. I mean, the kingdom's a joke. Like, no expense spared. It is. It's a different, I mean, obviously, we're spoiled and, like, that whole access and everything we had. But I was chuckling over, like, you know, a 7 iron or whatever because I was like,

like, oh, I really want to, you know, get to the 770s. It was like, yeah, no problem. I'll order you some. And I was like, what did you just say? He was like, over the ball. It's like, are you kidding me? It's like, where are we? Are we just in heaven?

This is going to happen. So, yeah, the whole thing. Yeah, exactly. It was too much. We actually should be hitting our worst shots there so that they can fix us. Like we, you know what I mean? Like, we really don't need as much teaching when we're on our best days. Yes, we still do.

But, like, that's when we're at our best. I'm hitting that three wood. There's not much more he's going to tell me to, like, make that better. But, like, if he saw me when I'm at fucking Windwatch Golf Club in Roncahankama, and I'm hitting three woods into the fucking driving range from the 10th hole, like that's when it's like, let's have a talk. Like, let's talk about the swing here because you haven't hit a three wood correctly in four years. But instead, he saw me on my best day yet again.

Like my, like my seventh iron, six iron, was just. just a chunk hook and I was like, hell yeah. Yeah. Because before that, it was six straight, like six irons that were 175, 180, which is pretty good yards from me, like right at the green or right. And it was just like, that's not how I play. Oh, like you're not seeing what's really in here in this person. And then when I took a couple horrible swings that just like half the grass,

half ball, it went nowhere. I was like, that's, that's me, man. Now you're seeing it a little bit. you do kind of, you feel, you do want yourself to show up. If too good of you shows up, that's not accurate. And if too shitty of you shows up, that's not accurate. I walk into a fitting pretty comfortable because I know that the guy is going to have a lot to do. Like, I know that he's going to have a few notes and that I feel comfortable that he's going to feel comfortable doing his job and knowing that he is doing his job.

Because, like, even, I guess, the only thing I get nervous about at those is that, like I show up and you guys are all pretty good. I mean, you're all single digit handicaps. And I feel like that's... I thought what the internet says. That's... And I think that's what maybe if they have like a pre-talk about like how good are these guys before they get here. And then they're like, all right, there's a three single digit handicaps.

And then there's this one guy who just like is terrible. So I'm always nervous that he's not going to be prepared for that. Luckily, my guy, Perry, was perfect. Like I think they've made. match this up on purpose because he was all about like instructional with a little bit of fitting. So it worked out very well. That's the only part that I'm nervous about when I go to the fitting like that. I get a question for you, Taddy.

So like maybe two months ago, you said what I really want to do is hit like a four iron really well. I think that's golf. But I saw in the fitting, they kind of pulled those away from you. Now it looks like you're hitting like a four iron hybrid almost. So I tested out a four iron. hybrid and a five iron hybrid that I really like that it's you know with my irons they're obviously just starting to come around a little bit and when I start to get to the four to five irons it's really a crapshoot like I feel pretty good six seven eight like I feel pretty good about those

but if I get to four or five it's really not that great so he was like let's at least give you a four and five hybrid iron and if you want to hit those hit those you're gonna if you're not feeling confident in the four and five, which you probably rarely are going to, hit the four or five, but we're not going to take the four and five iron out of your bag. Like you have a little bit of both so you're comfortable. So that's really what I was going for. Like I didn't want the four and five iron, the P790s be taken away because I really think I'm going to work my way into those.

Like if I'm going to start playing more and I'm going to be getting my iron shots more consistently, I want to at least have the option to hit a real four iron and a real five iron, but also if you got the four and five hybrid, you're covered in that area too. So it's a little bit of best of both worlds. Yeah. I agree with that. Like you want, you want to believe

that you're going to progress into something a little bit rather than just, this is as good as I'll ever be and I need assistance forever. Like part of you wants to believe. And that was the big thing that our conversation was centered around.

Like, he's looking at me and I've got these P790s and he's looking at my swing being like, you're borderline for these P790s. And he said, if you're looking to improve for the next couple of years,

I'm going to keep you in the P790s. 90s because you're going to grow into these clubs because if we go backwards at all, you're going to have these just different irons that are for a player who is content with not being able to break 100, which is fine. But if you are looking to improve and be a better player, we're going to keep you with the P790 so you can grow into this club because you're going to be a better player with these as opposed to taking you back and giving you a more forgiving iron, but it's not going to help you improve in the way that you want to improve.

My guy told me he basically did the same thing with, well, not really the same thing, but the idea of on any given day or when I'm feeling a certain way, I can swap out my four iron for four hybrid if I feel like the course calls for it because he's giving me a five wood and a three wood. And he's like, you just need to learn and grow into these woods. Like you can't be afraid of hitting woods. So I'm going to give you two options. And like if you like want to keep the five wood in or you want to take the five wood out, put the hybrid in with the iron. Like there's a lot of changing, interchanging. Not many like average regular Joe Schmo golfers get the luxury of like picking their bag before their fucking rounds. I think that's a little too much for us to be doing.

Like I'm like looking at the slope and the fucking slope. I'm like looking at the slope and the rating being like, let me say, well, there's a roll off on the second hole. So maybe I'm going to want to want a little bit of backspin on the hybrid. Yeah, no, it's, but it is cool to have those options. It's something you never really think about, like depending on what course. or depending on your swing at the time, like which clubs you should have in your bag. That's why a fitting is so good.

You never even think of that stuff. Right. I would never even put a five wood in my bag ever in a million years. Now I got one. We were looking at my four and five irons on the track man. And essentially, like, I can hit them okay, but I get no height on them. So it's not going to land and stay on the green,

which is what you want if you're going to be hitting a club like that. And with the four and five hybrid irons, I was getting crazy height on them, similar distance. So it just makes it easier to score. And, you know, that's what everybody's looking to do. So until I'm super comfortable my four and five, I can hit the four and five hybrid irons if I want to.

We can't possibly do this podcast with Lurch getting his brain eaten by dementers right now. I mean, I can't. You're legitimately in so much pain. It's hard for us to sit here and talk about golf about just like regular people. Like we're just ignoring you getting tormented. He's like,

they're stuck in his face. When he gets like stabbed at the end, he has to still fight comatist, but he's trying to, like, stay alive and beat him, but he can't breathe. Yeah. That feels like, that's you right now, Lord. Like, you have, at one point he was like,

in your fucking lungs and you're trying to fight comidus. He was like, oh, my God, he put a ballpans on his head. He was like, oh, my God. Like, with his camera muted to the point where, like, that's like a brain issue. You have a brain issue right now. Yeah, there is an amazing amount of pain in my forehead right now. What is a headache? Is it in your brain or is it in the muscles?

Don't know. The brain is a muscle, I think. Your brain is a muscle. So there's nothing. Oh, all right. So that was a stupid thing. There's no muscle in between your brain. There's no, there's no, like, muscular tissue in between your brain.

It's weird because you feel it like like your skull. Like, if you feel, I feel this in my skull and like the top of my eyebrow kind of. It's got to be your frontal lobe just down. Harry Potter right now. Like, like, Bjong sung. You should put a little light. You should put a lightning book on your forehead. I'm talking to somebody recently,

and I think headaches are my least favorite ailment in terms of like stomach egg, headache, like the sort of like tier one where you're like you're in a little bit of pain, like what would you prefer? Obviously you don't want any of them, but like headaches, when I can't concentrate on something,

it drives me insane. And I really feel proliferation in this moment. You probably enjoy a little tummy ache, Trent. You sit back, you rub your belly with a little bit of fucking lotion, you watch your fucking movies. Tummy aches a fucking walk in the park for you. You have a tummy egg on a random Tuesday night

after eating too many sourpatch kids. Right. You want to talk about stomach aches? I know how to deal with stomachache. Headaches feel like an alien is that into your body. Yes. And it's...

No one gets out through your head. It's awful. Sorry to be distracting. I don't mean to be that. I just... We feel bad. I feel terrible. Do you?

And Lurch, you and I, Lurch, you and I have been texting a little bit for this, just like symptoms and what's going on. And I had told you early on that I got really bad headaches. But the reason was because I wasn't having my morning coffee just because my whole routine was thrown off. And I always have coffee in the morning. And I ended up like I got a coffee and I drank it and my headache went right away. So I was just going through getting into drugs. Yeah. When I did that plant-based diet, I went through those.

same withdrawals because there's no caffeine and I remember having those headaches. This headache that I've got, the last two days I've got really, really bad headaches. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's all in the same vein, but I mean, this is, this is awful. By banging your head against a wall a couple times. It's a perfect idea, Frank. Or hurt something else, something else, like stab your question. That was always, like, my uncle's, like, trying to make, like, lie to the moment. He'd be like, slam your thumb in the door. And you'll be, you want to worry about your head anymore. Then you thought and you have that happened.

Logic's airtight. Well alerts, we're, we're pulling for you. I hope you. Appreciate that, gang. Hope you feel better. I will say that I'm a little bit confused about just like my relationship with the general online public and their comments on our games because this new Facebook thing that we talk,

about that group is so different than the other group of online folks it's nice are they fans there they love us to the point wow go on we go on instagram you go on twitter it's handicapped police it's there's no way this guy's better than a 25 handicap that's all you see this there was a guy on facebook our facebook group who commented like does anybody else get annoyed when riggs talks about bad he is at golf because like most people would love to be as good as he is. It was going the complete other directions where I had to go. I went in and was like, no, I'm like, I'm not trying to come off like a dick cat. So there's one group of, there's multiple groups of internet users on Twitter and

Instagram that are just ruthless. Everybody's a scratcher better. Everybody's a PG-Tor professional who could fix your game in half a second. And then there's this crew on Facebook that they're just. happy go lucky out there kumbaya like yeah nobody can break 100 but riggs is really good and it's just the two different worlds are shocking. I gotta get in there. It's a greater demographic.

So maybe they're just, you know, kids are mean. Kids might be on Twitter and adults are on Facebook and they're just kind of nicer people, I guess, and more on. It might be what it is. I stole through that little group. You get a little bit of negative for sure. But overall, it's like they just, they love us. They're like, they fucking love what we do.

It's amazing. I wonder if that has anything to do with that their names are attached to it. That's an interesting, interesting thought. Like on Twitter, you can be Jack off Dick 69 and being like, your swing stinks, bro. While I'm there, it's, you're Tim Johnson, and you got to, if you say something crazy, you got to own up to that. Yeah. I did that once. This dude was just ruthlessly messaging me, right?

like just fucking every day talking about like Borelli he's going to go there and fucking like do something bad like just a crazy person and it was just his like his name and where he worked in his bio on Instagram so I like I took a screenshot I'm like you're uh you're just a high school teacher huh like at this place like on Long Island like this is this is crazy like you're a high school teacher and like a lacrosse coach and uh you're just fucking going nuts of my like imagine imagine this high school found out that this is what you do like just like threatening people legitimately like almost a crime and he deleted his Instagram just wiped it clean just doesn't have pictures of him and his family anymore he's like oh fuck this just got real like I didn't think that like I guess like I shouldn't be threatening people and I just that that's a huge victory for me that happens all the time I mean you know you talk about shit like I don't know it's like we I definitely like like getting shit on because it's like funny. I love that shit. Like I mean, I post pictures of myself looking obese and it went viral on Twitter. I posted that picture from someone's

deleted photo album on their phone. Like I went and got it. Um, I enjoy it. I mean, butter and knives has always been a joke. But it's when people cross the line on shit like that. And honestly, to your point, like they just don't understand the handicapped system, which I didn't understand the handicapped system either. It drives me nuts. I've learned it and I realized that it's not your average score. It's your best possible, like the best possible round you could have if you played that round that day. That's what you probably would score your handicapped. So don't go coming to me being like, you don't shoot fucking 83s! You don't shoot 83s and 82s. It's impossible. It's like, well, yeah, if I should play well, I do because I've done it.

I put numbers into this little app and it tells me what my fucking thing is. Whatever. Jake, don't even make that a fucking social clip today because I don't want to deal with those people. what do you think that guy who you made delete their Instagram tells his wife and his kids like obviously he still has been like oh i got a hack i got yeah exactly or like you know what i think i'm gonna try except for comment you guys i'm not gonna get on the internet anymore i don't like i'm not gonna be on there too i'm a better person i messaged him back with like a question mark i was like dude you i was like kind of nice and i'm like dude you work at this school and like you like you like do you see what you just said? Like, you, like, threatened to burn a restaurant down. Like, what is how? Like, that's just a felony. It is always funny when someone goes crazy over the top on you, and then you

click on their Abby, and it's them with, like, their two kids at the park, like, what? Having a great day with the kiddos. It's like, dude, like, you don't, stop yelling at me. Like, you got kids, you got bigger things to deal with. One of the best is you guys suck a golf, and you respond. I always respond thanks man and the guy goes dude i'm a huge fan yeah every time oh one bite like it's like immediately fuck yeah yeah i mean i never thought you were gonna respond man like huge if you're ever in uh fucking cincinnati we got to go out to this course that's that you get everything and we do ask for it because we're fucking idiots on the internet but some people take it too far we're just fine they do that in all walks of life so i guess you just got to deal with it no we've all been

added for long enough now where it's like you've seen it all it's like yeah i laugh at a lot of it i laugh at a lot of it's right oh you can't take it seriously dude it's a bunch of it's like yeah twitter's like people talking in like a high school bathroom and writing on the wall it's like nobody you don't admit to it you just write like the nurse stinks and like it's just gone forever we live on we live on twitter and then we just like because we just like post stuff and then we just put the phone down and then we're just like in real life like in our kitchen with like family and stuff and you're just like oh like it doesn't matter what that dude just said no who's that what is that it's just that's what the guy's doing when he's trying to burn down borelli's on twitter yeah true true it's fucking

it honestly it amazes me like the other night i picked up my phone and somebody just said like at barstool or sucks at golf or something like that and it just completely out of the blue like there was nothing, no promo going on or like, we weren't doing anything. It was just something. And I was like, I think I just responded like, bored typing or like, what are you? Like, what I'm doing? I picture that guy walking through the, like, the produce aisle at the grocery store and he's thinking, you know what?

You know what I've been thinking about a lot? And Lurch sucks at golf. I'm going to let him know real quick. Right. For I check out. Totally fine to say that, like, we're putting a video up. I mean, it's fine, really anytime, but like, it makes sense if we're putting a video up or doing something that, like, promotes that.

But just out of the blue, just like, hey, dude, you suck at golf. It's like, oh, yeah, well, I mean, hey, there's Twitter. Hashtag Twitter. There's a huge disparity between our fans and the people that just, like, live on Twitter and want to make people upset and angry. Because we have the best fans by far.

Like, Barstool has, I don't have something in my mouth right now. I got caught doing this. This is crazy. What do you have? I have, like, a little Tylenol thing. I'm sucking on. I'm like, let me just, let me just drink this water. I'm sucking on.

I'm like, can you swallow pills, dude? Can you just get rid of the boy? I can't, I can't dry swallow pills. I think that's fucking crazy. I think if you can dry swallow pills, you got something wrong with you. No, I can't dry swallow me. I can dry swallow. Dude, that's just painful.

But you're like a little way. You can just, just, anything disappears in there. Dude, think about what you're doing. You're literally sucking down, like a hard fucking pill. Rigg just called me a blue whale. Oh, I'm just out. picture myself, see like what you picture me just swim across the ocean and just

there's a thousand fish and I just you just open your mouth and they end up in the shop, I guess. That is. I think you're saying our fans. I think even the guy that said Barstool Lutch sucks a golf. Like to some extent he's some sort of fan and I say thank you. I think all

people are great. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. It's very interesting. Like, just the differences in platform and how different people act on there. But Facebook, if you're ever looking for a little confidence booster, go to our Facebook group, and they're just really generally nice about us,

which is great. You want to talk about fans for a second real quick? No one realizes, I'm sure people realize at this point because he's fucking mega star. But Dave Portnoyne is so fucking popular that we went to a hotel that I don't know that really, I mean, I'm sure people knew we were going to it.

but like I don't know how they knew the entrance we were going in. We walked into this hotel and 30 to like 40 people were waiting in there with stuff printed out. I'm talking pictures, footballs, baseballs going crazy. Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, over his shoulder. Like, it was like fucking MJ walked out in the MJ documentary. It was like that. Like the door's open. It was like, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, damn, Dave.

And fucking splashing and phones. And it was like, dude, he's walking to his like hotel room. It was like at 8.30. Whoa. Woo! Woo! Hold on now. Give me a second here.

That was a little fucking... That's the worst. That's the worst. Little hiccup in my voice I've ever had in my entire life. But yeah, it was fucking crazy. It was one of those moments. I was just like,

it looked like Richard Jewel. You ever see that movie where it's just every time he walked out of the fucking house, a million people. You know the bomber, the Atlanta bomber? Trent, you're looking at me like you never heard of Richard Jule. That name did not ring a bell.

Same. He's the dude, it's a good movie. He's the dude that they planted the Olympic Atlanta bombings on him. He was a security guard that cleared everyone out and they're like, he must have done it. And it's a really good movie about him. He didn't like, he didn't know how to like say

he didn't do it. But he didn't do what I mean? I don't think that name strikes a bell for many people until Oh, dude, it was a massive movie this year. That's probably on me. Yeah, I should probably know that name. I didn't know the name.

Really? Oh. Sorry. I wish I did. I could have. Well, and there's a lot of scenes where every time he opens up the door, it's just pooh, pooh, pooh, pooh, pooh, pictures.

I just watched the movie kind of recently until I was in my head. All right, let's move on to something else. Tiger Wood. So Tiger Woods announced that he had microdicectomy procedure surgery on his back. It's his fifth back surgery, I believe. All right, let's move on to something else. This was announced on, what was it, Wednesday?

What's today? Today's Wednesday? It would have been Tuesday. It was announced Tuesday. Out of the clouds, I don't know that anybody had heard any whispers of this, anything. I guess it was done shortly after the P&C, so it's been a month or so. Tiger, not playing in the farmers. insurance, not playing at Riviera, a few months recovery time.

At first, it was sort of like, oh shit. And the way that, I mean, Tiger tweeted his own thing. It says, Tigers recently undergone microdicectomy procedure to remove a pressurized disc fragment that was pinching his nerve. Like, all of that sounds fucking horrible. I'm when I read that, I'm like, fragment nerve pinching. Like, that's, we're back. We're back to 2014 and crawling down.

on or falling down to one knee, two knees, both knees at Liberty National, grabbing your back, never being able to get up, whatever. It sounds like in all of, we've got a great notification where Noda came out and said, I just exchanged texts with him a little while ago. And he's doing great. He was out of the course hitting golf balls. He wasn't ripping drivers. He was just getting a feel for the game after the surgery and just seeing how everything is.

Rory McElroy, who's in Abu Dhabi, said Tiger went under back surgery on December 23rd and was, quote, back on his feet the next day. And the Tiger should be back for the Masters, if not before. I think he'll be just fine, Rory said. And generally, people that have had this surgery, I've seen a few of them email us or DM us, I can't remember where I read it, you said, hey, I've had this surgery even as a young person. And within three or four months, you're totally fine. and it's not an issue. So that's sort of where we're at with Tiger.

I'm not panicking as much, but it's also not idea. Whenever I picture Noda delivering a notification, a glowing review that Tiger is going to be fine and it's going to be okay. I picture, you know, when a magician cuts somebody in half and they just separate the boxes, I can be the worst possible scenario, and Noda's going to be like, yeah, he'll be back in a couple more.

He's really back by the master's, no problem. My initial reaction to this, I don't know if this was surprised people or not, but like I wasn't that worried about it. Like this is just, or I would not worried. I wasn't surprised. This is the ride we're on now with Tiger where like you said, Riggs, this was the fifth back surgery. If this was the first or second, then you're like, oh, oh, fuck.

Like this could all just be over now. But, you know, if you've been riding along with him for this long, you're on the fifth back surgery, it's not great news. It's never good news to have surgery. But we're talking about Tiger Woods. He's had a bunch of these. I think he's going to be fine. sounds like he's going to be fine, and we just have to wait and see.

Like, I'm not, I'm certainly not, like, hitting the red button and there's alarms going off. Like, this is just part of being a Tiger Woods fan in 2021. Yeah, Tiger goes to the back surgeon, like a guy goes to the chiropractor. It's just something that he's got to do with maintenance. It's alignment. It's feeling good. What I don't like is when I think of Tiger Woods, and it's been like this for a little bit, when we always see him walking gingerly or whatever, it feels as though his spine is like,

And I just watched, I just watched Jurassic Park for the first time in a long time. Like actually sitting down watching the original Jurassic Park. And like it just feels like it's one of those fossils that they find with the brushes. Like his spine is just one of those very, very weak at any moment it can just disperse into a million little pieces. And then those million pieces just go into his like nerves. And it's like you just have to be so. I've often said that I think he learned how to walk a different way. When we've been around him at the U.S. Open and the PGA and all these places,

it looks as though he's relearned how to walk. He does this, like, gliding walk where he doesn't move his back, and then, like, he goes to pick up the ball. So, like, that's just the life. Oh, fuck. What is going on, my man? I don't know, man. Oh, man.

Ah, I just can't, like, I can't fucking, I can't shake this thing. It just feels as though this is the life we're living, like you said, Trent. we just got a roll with it. Yeah, it's scary thinking that he's got a, what am I thinking of the pharaoh, like a mummy? What do they do to the mummies? They, like, what's that called? I mean, they're mummified. Mummify, okay. Isn't there a word for like what? Desert? Okay, no, maybe not. But I'm thinking of like, his back is just like you would lift up a pharaoh's casket and that's what you would find in tiger's spine. Is that type?

Okay, yeah, okay. Yeah, something like. like that. It's just we got to roll with the punches, man. And Tiger's not giving up on us. People are like, you know, this could be it. I got text messages from friends being like, fuck, man, that's it for Tiger Woods. Like, we've seen the last of them. I'm like, bro, it's fucking, they're going in there with the fucking fossil little brush and they're just fucking clean shit up. That's fine. I do, I do think that the Tiger haters are now, they're just firing every time and hoping that one time they're right. You know, like they're just, anytime something that they're just like, Tiger's done,

and they know that they've gotten old takes exposed a bunch of times, but one day they're going to be right, so they just keep firing. Those people are sad. They're sad. Yeah, when he's 50 years old and has 20 majors, they're going to be like, he's done. Yeah, those people are losers.

So overall, it sucks. We're not going to get to watch them play because that's what we live for watching and play in the next couple weeks. But also, like, if Tiger won at Torrey Pines, that wouldn't really do that much for us. like, yeah, they'd be sweet. We'd be jacked up. But like, he's won at Torrey Pines eight thousand times. So right now we're on to like majors. So really if you want it Tori Pines, you know that we'd get us excited for, the Masters. So as long as he can still

play and the Masters would be healthy, that's really all we're looking for. Like, yeah, another win would get him to 83. But like Sam Sneeds wins, we already discredited like 20 of them. So whatever. So overall, overall, it's really not that big of a deal. It would just be nice to watch and play the next few weeks. I do all say my heart, because I have Tiger notification. You said I do, you said I do will say there. Who did? You did. You said I do will say.

Oh, did I really? Yeah, yeah, I just want to let you know. At least my voice doesn't crack twice. Well, I get Twitter notifications from Tiger. He's like the only one. And whenever I see that one pop up, usually it's a TGR thing. It's a charity tweet. But then that one was the, it's basically his version of a notes app.

And I was looking at it and I was like, boy, do I not want to open this because it's not going to be, I feel 100% and I'm going to dominate golf this year. It's, I had a procedure and you're not going to see me until the master. So that was the one part that I did not enjoy. The going from my phone into my Twitter app before I knew exactly what was going on, those are tough moments. At some point it's going to start like after consulting my doctors and family, I regret to inform you and my fans that you're just going to take your phone. and you're going to throw it out the window and you're not going to care until the phone starts ringing.

Someone finds another phone to call you at, like a house phone or something. I'm going to sit in a fucking dark room until they find a way to get to me. I will not read that notification. I won't. It's going to come at some point. It will.

I know. And it will come in the form of a note. He won't be like a video. Because he's, he's, that's his thing. That's his trademark is sending out those fucking nicely bordered with his logo on

top the correct font it's like so nicely well done it's so like meticulous when you do have someone's twitter notifications on you don't like you're saying like you don't get the full thing right you know you get like you see a little blurb of it and i used to i used to have dave portnoi i don't anymore it's been years but i used to have dave portnoy and occasionally he would it would say riggs or like at riggs barstall or something that's it but you couldn't see the whole thing and that fucking transition from like that notification to opening up the full tweet to seeing what the hell could he possibly be saying about me on his Twitter account with millions of followers. That was a tough, tough five seconds or whatever it was every time.

No worse. No worse feeling than when I'm driving with Dave going on a pizza view or something and we're having talks. We're talking about whatever sports like a video we watch and I say something, right? Like we're in the car sometimes five, six hours. I'm going to say something stupid at some point. and he'll just he'll like you know you guys know Dave he doesn't let you off the hook like if you say something like oh yeah I think that place actually holds like 18,000 people or something like that stadium like yeah it's fucking crazy and he'll be like I don't think that's even possible and like you're like oh yeah maybe it's like 19 or 20 and he like looks it up he'll he'll just sit there and he'll be like I just tweet about you and like laugh and you're that moment of driving a car and be like oh like why like I'm sitting next to him be like what does it say like I don't want to text and drive but like what What did that say, what did you say about it?

That's happened to me multiple times. He goes, oh, man, people are going nuts about this one. I'm like, just stop. Right. I will say that scenario that Riggs laid out is 100 million, potentially billion times worse than any tiger notification you can get as a bar still employee because you're just like, oh boy, this is going to be ugly. It sucks.

It fucking sucks. So I don't have those notifications anymore, luckily. Riggs has been on the other side of a lot of those Like brutal ones where you're like out at a golf event Or golf like somewhere and Dave's just like where is Riggs And that's just not a good Like those are like the old boondoggle days Before people realize this could like actually be like a business

And like an actual thing He Riggs used to get fucking crushed by day It was like every day There was no imaginable scenario where he could be talking about me on Twitter and it could be good. Like not one in the whole world. So every time it was just like, fuck. Like what am I?

And usually I knew I was guilty. So it was like, oh shit. Like this is, it's for something that I am doing or have done in the last week. That's just not, he's not going to be happy about it. I remember when we were all sitting at lunch and at fucking pinerds? And we were there for what? The travel series? It was my first time really leaving Dave, like every.

And we went down there for like five or six days, Pioneer series, travel series. And we're sitting down eating lunch after playing what, like Pinehurst number two. And fucking Dave just, did he call me or? No, he texted me. And he goes, what are you guys doing down there?

And I was like, you know what, fellas? This has been fun. I know it's a good podcast, but I'm getting on a plane right now. And I'm going to get there before he needs another response. I'm going to fucking fly to New York and answer. this question. I'm going to let him know. They had just put a meatball sum in front of me. Yes.

A delicious looking meatball sum in front of me. And as soon as I was about to pick it up, Frankie goes, oh no. And you explained what the text was, and I did not touch that meatball sub. I just completely lost my appetite. He didn't eat. And it turns out that they were on the rundown at the time. And he was just doing his classic, like, what do they actually do? Like office space? Like, what would you say you do here anyway just finding out what we're doing down there um it was very very very nerve-wracking yeah it it sucks so luckily i don't have those notifications anymore we've reached well i've never said we've reached but we have reached a certain level where we don't have to be

as worrisome about that we actually have created a business so we're very fortunate in that but boy did those days fucking suck at times i have a question um who had the um the alarm going off in the last couple podcasts that we've gotten tweeted about nonstop. Dude, I'm very confused about this because I saw at least multiple messages on Twitter and on Instagram about the same thing. But then one of the guys, because I responded and was like, because obviously we don't want any audio fucking issues, I responded and was like, you know, like, when did you hear and he's like, you know what?

I think it was mine. And I was like, what? I was like, wait, are you, are you sure? And he was driving me crazy, but it was mine. My needed battery. So I don't, now I'm all confused. No, I, if you go back and if you would watch the tape on the last podcast, I think there's two times where I hear it and I start looking around like this, but I only heard it twice

and then I thought it went away, but the tweets that were getting would say that it happened 40 to 50 times. I mean, I was in the office without like a headphones or anything so it could have been something in the office but like if it's a consistent ding or or or beep then it couldn't have been. It had to be one of you guys. I'm considering it was Trent.

I've been I've been trying to listen for it and because of all those tweets I've been like well there's got to be a beep somewhere so maybe it's in my place and I haven't heard a thing but I don't know. I have a viral alarm beep is is, It's so triggering. Well, unless you fixed it, like, it would just continue, like, you'd hear it now, right? Right.

Like, it shouldn't go off. Unless someone was having. It's a low battery. Unless someone had, like, a fire going on and now no longer have a fire. I do want to apologize for that. I don't think it's mine because I don't hear it now and I haven't heard it all day. But that had to be so bad just waiting for the next peep when you're listening to that podcast. Beep.

Here it twice. And at that point, you're like, well, now I think I'm starting to heat. hear a fire alarm going off and then you keep hearing it and then you're just waiting for the next one that would have drove me insane so whoever it was i don't know who it was apologize yeah i do apologize unless it was yours at home and you didn't realize it and then blamed us so if that was the case i'd take back my apology and you can go you know that's on you for that to be the case there would have to be about 20 people's alarms going off very low battery deck during specifically the last podcast. That time of year, Trent, people's batteries in their fucking smoke alarms are just

going down. Okay. Most guys have tried different ways to last longer, which we've talked about before, thinking about maybe smoke detectors, fire alarms, my golf swing, whatever the hell you want to come up with. It's not going to work the way that you want it to work. Roman, that's how it works. The folks at Roman and online men's health company are changing the game with Roman swipes, the secret to longer-lasting sex. Roman swipes are a clinically proven way to last longer in bed. They are effective. They are easy to use.

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That's get Roman.com slash four. You get your first month of swipes for just $5. $1.com slash four. All right. Next up, we're finally going to get to it. We're going to get to Arm and Coutan. He's a very, you know, smart, accomplished individual. He's hot right now because of the Tiger documentary.

So enjoy this interview with Arm and Cota. Okay, folks, we're joined by a very special guest for the second time on the show, although it's been a few years. We have the co-author of the book that gets discussed on this show a lot. Tiger Woods biography. It's Mr. Armicottayan who wrote that book with Jeff Benedict. I actually have. We talk about this book a lot. I have it

right here. I'll pull mine up. I don't know. It's not my trash can, but there it is. I'm making trip. I looked at. So Aramiketian, I was actually, I was looking, you know, doing a little research. You have 11 Emmys? Is that clear? Yeah,

I'd show them to you. They're up here somewhere right on my shelf. I'm surprised that because if most people who have Emmys, they do the background thing where they like, these are all of my Emmys. I'm surprised. Yeah, I don't do that. It has become in the world of like virtual like, you know,

zooming with everyone. I feel like people's background is their social brag or their professional brag. I know. I guess my office is weird. I could show it to you. I've got over here, I mean, if I can do it,

you can see those are all the books up there. Sort of there. Yeah. And then, I may take you up a second, take you up there somehow. I probably can't. But up that way are all the Emmys. I just like to impress people when they walk in the office.

Oh, yeah. And then I don't have to impress them after that. So it's, get it out of the way. It's a nice, you know, I mean, I have the books are here. There's some 60 minutes stuff. But I have a lot of books in my, in my office. And I'm a, you know, obviously, I'm a huge reader. And but you're right.

I think it's become kind of a, you need to have an interior decorator, you know, come in and do your work. wall so you can and everybody wants uh everybody wants the power broker right the robert moses book and i've got it over there somehow it should be right here right behind me you can do it well i think it looks pretty good that's actually not that's actually not a bad business idea just to have you could even have fake backgrounds that people you could sell to people that they would be like oh that's an esteemed smart deep guy exactly you can fake people out to no end you know you just and maybe that's what you call the the company fake people out you know you just do that and you just do that and

and you put like big green screens behind, and then you can put all the books and, you know, glamorous photos of models that you dated and stuff like that. You're shaking hands with presidents, all that stuff. Exactly. Like I have a, I have somewhere up there. I've got an honorable degree, you know, a doctorate from Quinepiac University.

And, I mean, I could have brought that right here. It really impressed you guys. So, I don't know. Who would dare show you my doctor. I can. That's all right. We'll call you a doctor. contend. There was no problem.

So obviously the documentary came out, the two-part Tiger documentary on HBO. We're going to get to that. We actually, I don't know if you know this, but we bring you up on this show a lot because there was a phenomenon of when the book came out a few years ago, we talked about it obviously a lot. We had you on the show. It went very well. People were intrigued.

So after we discussed it, did like a review, we had so many people. people message us and say, hey, you guys keep talking about this Tiger Woods biography. What's the name of that book? Is it too complicated for you guys? And it was Tiger Woods? Did we like strain the brain? What the hell? We ended up turning it into a little buffet of bits here where every time we would bring it up,

we do a whole like, what's a, you know, I know the name of that fucking book? And then we'd be like, by Arm and contain it. So in that manner, we actually bring you up a lot. Oh, well, that's good to know I'm a butt of a joke. So it's good. No, we're making fun of the people that couldn't figure out. I know. Can you imagine?

Somebody actually asked about the doc. You know, it was on one of your threads. And everybody was talking about it. And they go, yeah, what's the name of that doc? What doc are you talking about? I'm like, are you got to be kidding? You're right? You just, you can't be that stupid.

But evidently, they're out there. Yeah, they're out there. So again, you know, we, we do bring you up a lot. It's always in fun light. Okay. Now you're back. You're an executive producer on the documentary, documentary based on the book, the biography that you guys did.

Curious, we'll start with just the initial reaction. And I'll preface it with like when it was bizarre because those who saw the pre-screening of the documentary, a few of them from golf digestible, it was Joel Beale, Daniel Rabaport came out. and they were pretty negative right away. And, you know, curious as someone who clearly, you know, is as close to this as you could possibly be, what were your thoughts on the initial reaction?

Well, the initial reaction when it came out when it was Golf Digest, I mean, let's be honest here, that's not the most unbiased group of people in the world. Discovery Golf owns Golf Digest. Tiger has his own exclusive deal with Golf Digest and with Discovery Golf, which puts you if you're in Gulf Digest shoes in a rather, I would say, uncomfortable position if you're going to be reviewing a documentary and unauthorized documentary of Tiger's Life. So I took that one with the grain of salt. I realized that, you know, that's a really tough position to be in because, as you guys well know, Riggs, especially you, you don't want to get on the wrong side of Team Tiger and get excommunicated from the Church of Woods because there's really no.

coming back from that kind of mistake. So I understood that. I was particularly disturbed by one review that, Riggs, you kind of caught on to where I don't know, remember who it was. I think it was a woman who said that we had attacked. It was an attack on Tiger. And honestly, it's anything but an attack on Tiger.

I mean, it's, it is it fair? Is it tough in spots? Absolutely. Is it revealing? Is it intimate? Is it in depth? Is it humanizing? Do you empathize with him in the end? I think all of those things work. And those words are fair. Attack, I felt like, was a complete cheap shot into what we were trying to do. And more importantly, what the directors were trying to do. There were a lot of places they could have gone. And then going back to what Mark Steinberg said, in his statement that it was salacious. Was it unauthorized, which is one of the things he said, yes. Was it an incomplete portrait? Yes.

We didn't do 10 hours on Tiger Woods. It's three hours and 15 minutes. So there's going to be areas that we didn't get into. The directors, those were their decisions, not my decision and not Jeff's decision. But I found the word salacious to be completely unfair because it's anything but salacious. You have to, if you're telling the story. of Tiger's Life, and when you do the rise, and particularly when you do the epic fall from Grace, well, I'm sorry, if you're any kind of journalist, you have to at least allow the viewer

to experience what we all experienced during that period of time after November 2009. So, but overall, and I've seen the better part of 100 reviews, I would say 90% of them plus have been very positive. And look, we're all big boys here. Everybody's got an opinion on, I respect most of them. I just found sometimes where there were some cheap shots taken

for reasons that really didn't relate maybe to the film itself, but maybe to other people's agendas in terms of what they were trying to accomplish. So there's a lot to unpack. A lot of it, I'm, is sort of going to go the direction that I thought it was going to go, especially in the sense of your involvement,

what it takes to actually produce a documentary, working with. I mean, if you just look at the credits, how many different people you have to work with versus writing a book with pretty much just one other person where you have a lot more control. You know, our initial reaction,

there's a couple things I want to say. One, we're not journal. So we can say whatever the hell we want, which is great. You know, and we can be very, we can be very clear about like, no, we love Tiger Woods.

And there's a certain element of us that I want to live in a bubble where I just think Tiger Woods is the greatest. I'm not a fan of Tiger Woods because it's, he tips well or he comes off as a real salt of the earth kind of guy. That's a reason why I'm a big fan of a Kevin Kisner or of a Max Homa. I'm a big fan of a Tiger Woods because, you know, when he puts on that red shirt, he becomes a fucking machine that destroys people. That's why I like Tiger Woods.

That's what I want. That's what I want. That's perfectly your pariah. Right. And so on that level, you know, like we're, we're going to play that up because a lot of fans are like us and we just simply can't help it. That's why we love Tiger Woods. My initial reaction was very clearly like, well, if this is going to be an attack on Tiger Woods, I'm just not going to watch it. I'm not going to endorse it. Like you just mentioned, once a lot more folks came out, and it is a very important tidbit that Golf Digest owned by Discovery, they have media and access literally contracts with. Tiger Woods. So it's very understandable that those would come out from them. Once I started to see, like, I know Lurch, Frankie saw it. They said, you know, no, we think it's pretty damn good.

A lot of people started messaging me. And the beauty of it is also that I can just change my mind. Like, I'm not, we're not beholden. Can I say something to you? Because when I saw what you, what you put on Twitter, I was pissed off. I was like, God damn it, Riggs. You know, watch it yourself. When you were on that boycott HBO wagon, I was like, you know what? you've got a lot of people that respect you and follow you. And I thought, you know, you're better than this in terms of, and I don't mean to sound like your father here because I'm not, but you're better than this in terms of the responsibilities that you have in the position that you're in because people are looking to you for information and confirmation on certain things. And so when you said what you said,

I almost went off on you on Twitter and I thought, no, I'm not. I'm not going down that path because I know it's coming back the other way. And I don't want to fucking deal with it. You know what I mean? It's like, well, thank you times two. But when I read, you said, I watched it. And that's when I, you know, you and I started to talk a little bit. I was like, you know what?

Good for him. At least he's watching it. Then he can make up his own mind. I don't really care. If you said to me, Armand, you know what, I didn't like it. I didn't get it. I didn't think it was fair. Blah, blah, blah.

at least you watched it. And then I feel like at that point in time, we're on the same page. But I was, I literally texted Matt Hammichick, the director and Jeff Benedict, you know, my writing part. And I'm like, I'm so ready to say something that I'm, that's going to cause me problems.

But I was like, you know, me, I'm not necessarily, Jeff and I are like fire nights. Jeff would be the one that would always say, oh, no, you don't want to say that. You know, I don't think we want to say that in the book. And I would be like, well, maybe we do. And so I just pulled myself back and I didn't say anything. And I'm glad I didn't because I was really, I know, look, you've got a lot of people

that follow you guys. You've got a big thing going on here. And again, I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing you because I'm not, but there's responsibility with that. And that's all I cared about was like make up your own mind and then tell people what you think. Don't follow some Yahoo that says, you know, they didn't like it because it was an attack. And that's what pissed me off.

I was like, well, fuck, if you didn't like it, because, you know, we didn't have enough golf in it. Then that's a discussion that we can have. But to call it an attack, I was like, wait a second. That's just not fair to us. And I agree. Like my takeaway after watching both parts was that the issues I had with it, I would imagine and guess, and I think it's turning out to be true,

were the same issues that you had with it, which are that, you know, like the last dance, which everyone's going to compare it to, was around nine hours total. You guys had a third of that. And so, you know, one of my main questions is going to be, I'm sure that you push back and that if you could have it, you would want it to be longer.

Well, I wanted to boil down a several hundred page book into three hours. Well, it's a 400 page book. And you, and Matt and I, Hamichick and I talked a lot about it. You know, you have to make really difficult decisions. I mean, our book was the roadmap in many ways. So I always thought about it. If you're headed in a direction, where do you get off on the exit ramp?

How long do you stay on that area that you're there? And then how quickly do you get back on the ramp and where do you go from there? And those decisions in part one and part two are really difficult decisions. Obviously, it's a father-son story. That's the real pathos and the driving force in both parts. But okay, how long do you spend in Vegas? How long do you spend with Dina Parr? How long, you know, do you spend with Joe Gromond?

How long do you spend? And I was, you know, look, when he won the Tour Championship, I mean, to me, that scene you see in the dock is like ridiculous. It's like the British Open when he was, I forget where he was. I think he was at St. Andrews, where they just broke through the barriers. And, you know, it was like, it was like Moses, you know, in the Red Sea. That's what it looked like at the Tour Championship. I wanted more there, yes.

Would I like the little more of the master's moment where everybody was kind of crumbling there in the end to have a little more drama? Yes, would there have been other things? But those weren't my choices. And I think in the end, you have to respect the fact that this is Alex Gibney, who won an Oscar as a, you know, a film director, a documentary film director. And then one guy, Matt Heimannan, who won an Emmy for Cartel, And Hamichick, who won, was nominated for Amanda Knox.

They know what they're doing. And the people around them know what they're doing. And Bentley Winer from HBO, who was really the contact person is a terrific producer, documentary film producer at Long Form at HBO. So, you know, in the end, it's there, it's there. They took the rights to the book. It's their film. And on, I'm, overall, I couldn't have been happier, really, honestly.

And obviously, you seem like a, you know, fiery guy and you've got your emotion, your thoughts are kind of well informed. Was there any path that you really wanted them to go down, which you voiced your opinion on and they didn't for whatever reason? Obviously, it's their decision. But did you go down that road with them at all? I didn't, you know, Ben, I didn't really have a path. I was more about just the tone in terms of when they were in these places, you know, their treatment of Rachel, for example, you know, because it's an interesting story. You know, Rachel wasn't part of the book.

We tried and she declined to be interviewed. But when the New York Times came out with a review of the book, which, honest to God, I mean, I couldn't have written it better myself. And I mean, it just this, I mean, there's, I'm on the cover. It says, you know, this is, there is beauty and awe on this perfectly pitched biography. I mean, if I was going to write that, you know, I would say thank you very much. So, but Rachel was in, was in the islands and she was online and she read the review and she texted Jeff and she said, I need to talk to you right now. And Jeff called her, they spoke.

And then that opened the door for us to make an introduction to Alex Gibney in New York. We were all together. I met Rachel for the first time. And that began a relationship between Alex and Jigsaw production. and then eventually really Matt Hammachek and Jenna Millman, one of the producers, and Rachel, to convince her to sit and this was the time and the place and the opportunity to talk for the first time in 10 years. And she was in the chair, I think, for eight hours. I mean, that's a, I was astonished when they told me that. And honestly, for me, that been,

like you're saying, I'm getting to the point. I sometimes take a while to get there. But the point being is, you know, I really want and I know there are women out there who feel like Rachel was the, and Rachel herself said it, you know, she was the mistress before she broke up the marriage. But she had a story to tell. And I felt like it was a really important story to tell because I knew enough about her relationship with Tiger to feel that she deserved the opportunity to tell it on her own terms. And so that like those kinds of moments we would talk about is like, How long, how important is Rachel? How important was that Dina Graveld, Dina Parr moment with the letter when she's reading it, even though it was in our book and people kind of were well aware of it or aware of it. But when she's there, the power of video and the power of film when she's reading it, I mean, you can't take your eyes off, you know. And when Joe Groman, for example, is talking about, you know, the Winnebago and Earl's, you know,

infidelities and he's just torn up inside in terms of how far he wants to go, you know, that doesn't come across in a book. That comes across with the power of television. And so I was looking for those moments. You know, that's what 60 Minutes is built on. We just called them moments. They just won after another, after another after another after another in the storytelling. And that's what I think you get here is you stack these moments on top of each other

and they tell you a story, but a lot of people that aren't very good at storytelling, just stack them and they don't really know what they're trying to say. Here, I think, as you saw in the end, you know, that Earl moment in the beginning at the Haskins dinner, and Earl kind of talking from the grave at the end, and that hug with Charlie and the hug with Earl at the Masters in 97, I mean, that's really powerful.

And it tells you something about father and son. So, you know, I didn't stick my name. knows too far into the creative side. I was really more of a sounding board and Jeff was a sounding board to say, I think you can't ignore this, you know, rather than you have to do this, I think, in those terms. We are almost a month into the new year and I'm sure plenty of people have already given up on their new year's resolutions and not call anybody out. Just saying it's just a fact there's just no chance that that hasn't been true, especially if they involve working. out, but just because you haven't touched those fitness DVDs since January 3rd, it'd be amazing

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talked to Tiger after a lot of the stuff has broken. The news has gone crazy. And then he finally speaks to her and he says, you know, my lawyers are going to call you get as much as you can. Yeah. That obviously implies in all the rumors or reports or whatever have been that there's a big confidentiality agreement. How does that work in terms of her sitting down?

It's a good question. I don't even know if they, those are above my pay grade in terms of the legalities of things like that. I don't know, I don't really don't want to say much about that because I don't know enough to be confident. Obviously, there's been reports, you know, of an NDA. You know, Gloria Alred was involved in the negotiations of it. I thought it was an incredibly powerful moment when she said, what she said is get as much money from me. me as you can. Was that Tiger's way of saying, I love you? Was that tiger's way of saying, I'm sorry? Either way. You know, he's such a complicated guy.

And I think the art here was trying to, as we were talking about when the book came out, you know, who is this guy? You see him, Riggs. You see him a lot. I mean, you're there a lot. You see him in situations that I haven't seen him in. I've seen them more human. I've seen them more engaging. I've seen him more accommodating to fans in recent years, which I found to be really just so gratifying in so many ways because, you know, you can't be, how it be awed by his talent. I mean, I've never seen anybody. I still watch some of his highlights. I mean, that shot at Firestone in 2000 in the dark, you know, and the people are holding up their lighters and stuff, and he can't even see the pin or that shot out of it.

of the Canadian Open out of that sand trap. Like, what was it, 2.16? Water, you know, dead water in front of them, trees right? And he just stuffs it. I'm like, nobody does that. I mean, there's just not a person on the planet that does stuff. So I'm, you know, people think that, you know, people thought we were out to get them. Some people thought, oh, you know, you're out to get them.

If I was out to get Tiger Woods, I wouldn't have spent three years of my life. I would have spent six months of my life writing a shitty book. that had a lot of salacious stuff in it, hoping that it would sell. This book has stood the test of time. It's still selling. It's selling more now than it's almost ever has since because of the dock. And, you know, when you invest the kind of time that we did, that's the benefit of it. The immersive kind of biography, you know, you just hope it hits.

And when it does, you know, at this point of my life, that's as, you know, I don't, I can't be any more, more grateful than what's going on right now. Other than this, I mean, this is like the best ever. Thank, yeah, you're welcome. I mean, you're glad that you're able to experience such a- Trent talk. I don't know. It's Trent Talk. No, I do.

I was just, I'm just listening. It's very, it's just very interesting, the whole thing. Okay. I'm curious if you think, right? I mean, you spent years now. Five, Tiger Woods. Studying Tiger Woods, you guys list at the beginning of the book, which the book is fantastic. It's a must read.

You spend, you know, you talk about the hundreds of hours of footage that you watched, the transcripts that you guys went over. Every interview, you read books on, you know, the psychology on all sorts of things. Sex addiction, let's not forget that. It's thorough of a job, and I'm not going to, that's all hearsay. But it's, you know, the amount and the, the, the thoroughness, you know, that you guys brought to this, you know, you know the Tiger Woods story as well as anybody. I'm curious if you think Tiger Woods had much of a choice to end up differently or to have taken a different path than the one that he took. He had very little choice.

And I think it proves time and time again. I mean, Maureen Decker, you know, the kindergarten teacher, when she suggests that Tiger wants to, you know, play on a team sport with soccer and Earl making it clear that just wasn't in the cards. You know, Tiger liked to say that he played team sports. I went back and looked at every picture from junior high to high school. If there was any photo of Tiger Woods on a team, even photos that were that we could find in a, in a, um, recreational league. And you just can't. You can't find them.

If they exist, if that part of his life exists, I never saw it. So you look at that and then you look at, you know, between Tita and Earl, and what Earl was talking about early on, about Tiger was going to be the chosen one

and Gandhi and Buddha and Nelson Mandela. I don't think he had a choice at all. But I think in a weird way, Tiger embraced it. You know, you see so many kids who are pushed into things that just crash and burn. Once Tiger got a taste of it from

his father, in terms of the beauty of the game of golf, how to shape a shot, how Earl taught him through the Green Beret practices to never say the word enough. You know, that... Tiger embraced all of that.

And that's where the genius is. That's where these things become, you know, almost mythological in nature, what we witness. He didn't really have a chance, but he in many ways withstood all the pressures, all the other things that were on it. I'm sorry. This is one of my partners.

Showcasing that you're popular and needed. But important showcasing the wall. Yeah, exactly. I'm surprised. Guys, call me twice during this interview, so they think I'm very, Just to put a bow on it is, no, he didn't really have a chance, but he made the most of it. And I always thought, you know, as we talked about, you know, the question that I think the doc tries to answer and we try, you know, what's the price of genius?

And that's what it is. You know, we were all in awe of everything he did, but we weren't him. We didn't carry those burdens. We weren't involved in that extreme fame and fortune. And that one moment where he's out there looking at the crowds going, fuck me, this is like, you know, holy, Moli, what am I doing it here? So the fact that he's still, that to me, after everything that's happened to him, what happened in Memorial Day weekend, 2017, which we all thought maybe was the end, you know, that was

the tragic ending that nobody wanted to see or, or witness in any way, shape, or form, for him to come out of that. And I always, you know, to crawl out of that hole and into the light and to what, and to accomplish, what do you accomplish is nothing short of, I mean, I don't even know what the word is. Amazing. It doesn't even begin to do it justice. Well, when we always talk about on this show, we kick around the question that we would love that asked Tiger, that everyone would love to ask Tiger, is, would you change anything from those early years that really formed you into the person that turned you into this superstar that

puts you on this trajectory to put you through all these things? And the answer that we always come to, and obviously we can't answer. Only one guy on the planet can is probably no. And a big part that is probably that he doesn't know anything else, but also it has put him on this incredible journey. Yeah. I think you're right. That's a really good question. And I wish one time in one press conference, somebody would have the courage to stand up and say, Tiger, given everything you've been through, all the good and all the bad and all the, you know, the wins and all the triumphs and the tragedy and everything, would you change anything in your life? Would you have taken a different path if you had the opportunity? I would, I mean, I know he's

working on a book himself right now. And I can't, I hope he goes in those places because I think it'll be fascinating to understand. And I'm not going to say who I think the author, co-author is because I'm not 100% sure. But if it's the guy that I think it is, he's going to, he may well take Tiger in that direction. You can spread rumors on this show if you want. Throw rumor. Yeah. Well, okay.

I mean, I don't think I'm talking out of school. I think it's J.R. Mo R. ringer who did Andre Agassiz open and who was Phil Knight's muse and shoe dog. I believe that's the case. And if that's JR, you know, he's he's as good as it gets in those kinds of situations. And will he go along? Will Tiger follow him into some of the places that I'm sure J.R. wants to take him?

If he does, it'll be fascinating because no one's been able to get inside Tiger's head that way. And I read Lorne Rubenstein's book, you know, on the 20th anniversary of the Master's Triumph, which came out, I think, in what, 2017. And I thought Tiger went places that he had never gone before in that book. And that helped Jeff and I, because when we were writing, it was like, oh, we thought it was more like this. And Tiger brought us back to over here, which I thought was, you know, I was very grateful for in terms of not getting something really wrong or off. in terms of what he was thinking at a certain point in time. Yeah, it's, talk about, oh, sorry. I just, you know, my, I remember my main takeaway,

and a lot of people who read the book, when we read the book, was I felt sympathetic and empathetic towards Tiger Woods, which was amazing if you look at it, you know, in a general sense in that here's this billionaire who has had, as much success as a human being by almost all measurable standards could have who was this icon who was a machine who was just destroyed people in the competitive realm in every chance that he could yet you feel a little bit sorry for him you feel a little bit sympathetic towards him and I and I remember you know coming out of reading the book and becoming and being stunned that I was

even more a fan of Tiger and rooting for him to succeed not in a overall legacy and it's going to be such a cool media craze kind of reasoning but but for him like you know when he came back and he won at east lake which i thought you guys should have covered more in the documentary he very much like when his lip was quivering at the end it was like that's a person in there yeah that is genuinely happy that he did it and overcame and and returned and he did a comeback like that is a human being right there where's when he wanted Medina in 06, the PGA, like even the commentators are talking about how he seems like he's not, he doesn't have a single human emotion. He takes off his hat on to the next one, let's go,

whereas even when he just wins when he won pebble, you know, by 15. I mean, they talk about a machine, you know, but you just used the three words and the two most important, you're not, you're not as dumb as sometimes people say you are, you know, that's a really, you said, Tread asked a good question. You know, we're all right now. But empathy and sympathy, that's what I felt at the end of the book and the journey that we took with him over three years. And when I saw him at, I didn't know what I was going to see. I went to Farmers 2019 in San Diego because we didn't have an ending of the book.

And I'm like, God, I don't know what, you know, I don't know what this guy is. I don't know where he is right now. And I saw him out there. And you might remember he made the cut. He made a big pot on Friday to him. hit the cut line and then he played well over the weekend and he was just a different person in terms of his interactions with the media, the fans. In little moments that when I was looking at him, he did things like reaching down and doing an autograph to somebody he would have blown off

before. I was like, oh, my God. So, and he was healthy when I was like, oh, this could be interesting. And so that empathy and that sympathy, I think are the two biggest words that you walk away with. sorry, yes, I think sorry is another word because you know what he went through and you feel this, you feel sorry for him in certain ways. And now the other word that I think really I've come back to, and I think the doc does it, it humanizes Tiger. And there's a reason that, you know, Pete McDaniel is the last voice in that doc. And, you know, it's easy to use the other R word, you know, the rise, the fall, the return. You can go to redemption. And redemption is a moralizing kind of, we're up here, you're down here.

Oh, you've been redeemed now in the public eye. And in the end, it was a very conscious decision, and it was laid in the dock where we made that decision. It wasn't me so much as it wasn't me. It was Matt Hammichick and Heinemann. And I think Alex Gibney, but I was all in favor of it, is to allow the human element to really be the last thing that you, here. And that's, other than Earl's voice, it's, it's Pete saying, you know, he's like all of us. He's got frailties. He's a human being. And I think we just forget about that sometimes because he was such a machine. But those wires have a tendency to cross over time, you know, and that's where,

that's how you end up maybe hitting a fire hydrant at Thanksgiving night, you know, in the middle of the night. But I think that idea that this guy who's shown very little humanity at times in his life is now viewed, I think, now more with more empathy and sympathy than ever. And I think that's so deserving because in my mind, and I may be Kalianish about it, I think he is. And God bless him, you know, at this point, I mean, Jesus, he's lived three. lives, you know, how about the next 45 years being something you can really enjoy? I know, right? It almost reminds me of like the hunger games to, you know, where it's like here's this person

and these people in this arena. And everyone else, though, and what you don't see is everyone else is deciding what they wear, what the theme of that person is going to be, how they're going to get there, what they're supposed to say, when they're going to eat. And in reality, it's like what actually happens. in that arena that want the main things that that all those other players the bigger players the bigger pieces like couldn't control is actually what we love about the person right like tiger woods you could you could construct as much of a golf machine as you want but you can't make

him out there fist bumping chasing balls into holes uh fist pumping left and right he gets a hole in one at the 16th hole at waste management you can't make that up he holes out on 16 in Augusta, you know, to win that masters with the ball hanging on the lip, like he makes the pot and no weight with a broken leg. Like, you can't, no matter how much you may be Earl Woods and Tita and sculpting this guy, he's still somehow in that arena able to show the passion and to have pulled it off for, you know, two or three decades to win three straight U.S. amateurs and come back from like five down and making these bombs.

Like, you just can't, on some level, that's him. That's just that human being doing that. and that's so amazing. That aura that he had, I mean, I was talking to JJ Henry's from Connecticut, and I'd run into him occasionally around here when he's playing a tournament and stuff or charity event. And he goes, you know, when he walked in the locker room, I mean, it was shape shifting, you know, in terms of it's like the air changed, you know.

There was like, oh, my God, tigers here, you know. And he didn't talk to anybody because that just wasn't his, his MO, right? I'm going to crush you and I'm not going to be your friend. And, like, you know, we were talking about an idea that was kind of the big thing in the doc, you know, the fuck you do. It's like the whole idea that I can't wait to get into, you know, a major on Sunday on the back nine, particularly the masters, where you have that amphitheater setting. And I thought it was one of the coolest things in the dock was when he hit that shot at 16 that was crawling its way to the pin. and phenow and I think it was Kepka on the other T, were on their tippy toes looking over,

going, for God's sake, here he goes again, you know. And I think that, that aura, that isn't, that's just, that isn't some cartoon character that was created by his father. That's tigers, yes, that DNA, part of that DNA is Earl, but that is a alchemy of something that, that, comes around in our lives once in a generation, a Michael Jordan, and I put the Tom Brady's, and I was lucky enough to be around Peyton Manning. Those guys are just different. They don't want to be the best of their generation. They want to be the best of all time. And they're

willing to put in the time in all the pain that goes along with that. And there just aren't that many athletes that they like to talk about it. it. Oh, I want to be the greatest of all time. But to go from here to up there is a long way in commitment. It is. And it's, yeah, it's again, I think, you know, almost a part of the reason I probably didn't, and I do think everyone should watch the documentary. I think it's very much worth it. But a big part of the reason I didn't get the maximum enjoyment out of it is because I'd already read the book. And it's like, you know, there's a reason that everybody out there says, like, oh, the book's better. That's been said eight million times. But like, you can just be more

layered and you can be deeper and you can go. When you have unlimited, the English language is unlimited. You have unlimited pages and you can just tell whatever story you want to tell. And so, you know, that that is, again, I think to the average to, I called it like the window shopper golf fan who kind of just browses around, I could see it being, you know, very, very informative. of the Earl story a little bit more about who he was as a child and how that four was. Like that stuff makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense perfectly. I mean, you know, look, there's a huge market in golf, but there's an even bigger market

in the average person that didn't really know the Tiger Woods story. And there's so many women, you know, there's a lot of really powerful women in this doc. And Tiger's story, you can tell Tiger's life through women. And you can say you can start with his mom. You can go to Dina. you can go to the women that he was having, as he got to Vegas and he was experiencing women as Tiger Woods for the first time, you certainly can talk about all the infidelities and Rachel, you could tell, and Ewan, other women that, like Amber Loria, who was in the dock as a Mark O'Meara's niece, who was very close to Tiger until she got cut out, I always love the female side of this thing because in many ways, Tiger has been, his life is defined by the women in his life.

And certainly with Dina, Rachel, and Ewan. So I find that to be a very appealing part of it. But you're, you know, you're right. Look, for the hardcore golfer, the story is sort of known. But to see it in video, I always felt like it was something else. And I will tell you this, just if people are just think there's not another turn to the wheel. I just saw a pilot script that is now, and it's pretty much its final version for a scripted series, that it's been announced, so I'm not really giving news away, but I can say I've now read the pilot,

and it's a very different take. It has a lot more to do with the father's son and Earl's background, at least in the pilot episode, and it's really powerful. And so I think in that, there are things in the book that I wish we could have put in there, like John Merchant, who was incredibly influential in Tiger's life as an amateur in Connecticut. And John, they interviewed John right before he passed away, and he just didn't make it into the dock, and he was one of those decisions. But John, in a scripted series, is a very, very powerful character to have because he's the first one that Earl cuts out of Tiger's life when John becomes.

a threat for tigers loyalties and tigers trust. So, you know, he's, it's, you can't really make it up. You know what I mean? It's just like it's so rich. And, you know, I mean, three years was enough of my life. I can tell you. That's the next time somebody comes around and goes, hey, you want to write a book and take three years?

Yeah. No. I got to say, if you see that National Enquirer guy, can you slap him in the fucking face? That guy is just the worst. You got that guy's, you don't have to comment on it, but that guy is one of the least likable figures

I've ever seen in my entire life. Yeah, Neil, I interviewed him for the book and, you know, yeah, it's a, it's, he has his moment. I mean, I don't know if I'd have said what he said, but in the way that's your moment. You said it earlier, but your line, your line was just knock me out of my seat.

Well, when you're in a chair for five hours and you get kind of a little fired up at times and you get to the point where you're just like, okay, I'm going to say what I want to say here. And I was, you know, it was nice of you. I was like, I'm a little more polished than that more, you know, in my life. But, you know, as my mother said, you know, if the shoe fits, wear it. So I finally decided to put the shoe on the people that, you know, it fit on. And, you know, thank God, you know, you had the video to back it up or, you know, I would have looked like a complete idiot. No, it was, you nailed it. I say, forget the Emmys, just had that. rolled on a loop.

I should have it on a loop on my Twitter feed. I mean, like, when your kids are sending it to you, you know, dad, it's on Instagram, you're a meme and now us and other stuff. And I'm like, oh, shit. I'm just trying to stay out of the limelight. You could pin the tweet to the top of your tweet, at top of your Twitter feed.

So anybody who goes there, that's the first thing I see. God, I don't think I should do that. You know, that's so funny. I know when I said it, I was like, oh, shoot, I don't know, this is that, you know, because you're looking at the camera. and you're like, well, came out of your mouth.

And then Hammondack, you know, he sends me the rough cut. And I look at it and he goes, oh, you got the best line in the dock. And I was like, oh, really? Okay, let me see. And I'm not knowing what, and then I went, oh, well, okay, I can see where that comes in. It's a power of tiger. Yeah. You can't help it.

You know what? I was in a, you know, thank God. And it's honestly, when you think, and you know this better than I do, but, you know, Cantlay was there, Chafley was there, Poulter was there. And, I mean, I went through the Masters again just last year. You know, when they were replaying it, I think it was early in 2020, right? They did the whole Sunday thing. And I watched it again, and I'm taking notes.

And I'm really just remembering, you know, the collapses that were going on. And you, I mean, you realize Cantlay had a really good chance to win it. Shafley was there. That put that Brooks missed, he missed the entire whole. It was like a six foot pot. He didn't even hit the, you know, you didn't even touch the cup. So I can't even imagine what it's like to try to swing a golf club under those circumstances with that crowd and that kind of pressure. And the fact that he hit on 12, he did exactly what he wanted to do.

And then honestly, I mean, that, what was it, four foot, five foot pot that he had to make for par, which was a lot of people would have missed that. He just stuffs it. And then 16, he does what he does at 16. So, yeah, I mean, it's like, you want to know how good Tiger Woods is? That's how good he is. Yeah, it was great. I loved when you nailed the line.

I'm glad that you've owned it. It'll be in my obituary, I'm sure. We're on my page one of those two. It's so, oh, God. Well, look, we appreciate it. Again, I think if people, we talk about the book a lot, but I'm glad sales are going well right now. It is a must read for any fan, really, of, I mean, documentaries, biographies are kind of a craze right now for a reason. I think just learning about people and you guys did, you did your due diligence, like you said.

You pretty much immersed yourself in the life of Tiger Woods and it shows. So people should check out the book, Tiger Woods. Check out the documentary two part on HBO. It's called Tiger. You can't figure that out. And Army can tell you. We really appreciate the time. Thanks, guys.

Let me just say one last thing. I mean it about the invitation to Brooklyn. If you're ever our way, bring the boys. We'll have a fun day. And, you know, there's a bunch of nutheads up there too. So we'll have a nice afternoon. We're going to be careful because we're going to take you up on that. We're going to come in a wrecking ball to your golf.

I'm a little worried. I just open my mouth. But I, you know what? I'll tell all my friends that they would love to have you guys. So anytime. I appreciate it of, I think it's July. July 27th through August 1st when the women are there. But other than that, you know, maybe afterwards, anytime you guys can make it this way.

I'd love to have you. We appreciate it. We're going to cash that in. We'll have a good time. And we'll get you back on the show, I'm sure. So thanks for taking time. All right, man. Appreciate it.

Appreciate it. Thank you.