Fore Play - Trent’s White Whale: Zach Johnson

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

Zach Johnson (00:20:08) and Entourage creator Doug Ellin (00:59:18) join the show. First, Trent confesses his undying fandom to fellow Cedar Rapids native, 2-time major winner and recent Ryder Cup vice-captain Zach Johnson. We discuss Iowa, the famous eyes open Claret Jug picture, and get details on what it’s like on the team earpieces during the Ryder Cup. Then, Doug Ellin joins to discuss the differences between Hollywood then and now, how Entourage is received today and his thoughts on it, and tells stories about he and the crew through the years.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/foreplaypod

Hey, 4Play listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Foreplay, by Barstool Sports. We have two guests on this very show. We have Zach Johnson, who everybody knows who that is. And we have Doug Ellen, who is, of course, the creator, writer of Entourage. Zach Johnson is, as everyone knows, one of the biggest gets for us in the history of this show, especially for our very own Trent Ryan.

Really an exciting day. Yeah, really an exciting day. I mean, we've been talking about him basically since this podcast started. He is, you know, a big part of the John Deere Classic. Another big topic on this show. Yeah, and we got the text or the email yesterday, Sunday, that Zach was going to be on the show. I got very excited. And I'm not going to spoil anything for the listener.

They're going to have to listen to it. But he had a great showing. And I think he might have changed some minds. hopefully on this podcast, maybe throughout the listenership. It's just, it was everything I wanted it to be. And shout out to Zach for coming on. He really, he didn't know the, the storylines that we had on this show about him. And he was unapologetic about the way that he runs his life.

So everything about it was perfect for me. Yeah. We are, you know, a group of podcasters that say shit about Zach Johnson a lot of the times. You guys are, yeah. We just, we're just a couple guys. Just jokes, fun and games. We're just a couple guys that like to talk about how boring he is. And vanilla ice cream, I think, was used a couple times by me.

Sometimes pudding was used in there. And just the noises we would make after he would say Zach Johnson, it would usually. Those were shots we were firing at Trent. Yeah. Those were like, there was a ricochet shots at Trent. And listen. And I think Zach Johnson now knows that we said those things. And we kind of given him that.

And I'll let the time go by for you guys to listen. into what actually happens, but I will say the tides may have changed. They may be turning. It was an experience that I wasn't ready for. I mean, last night we found out we were getting Zach Johnson today, and it was like, oh boy, it's go time. It's either we're going to really crush him or we're going to turn out loving them, and you'll just have to wait and see what happens. Yeah, I mean, I would say that it's a big moment in the history of this podcast. And I think people are really, really going to enjoy it. The needle, as Trent calls him.

A lot of ties, a lot of, you know, hoopla back and forth between you two, Trent, during this little meeting that we had. Trent has a terrible poker face. I'm looking at Trent's face right now, which is one of the worst poker faces of all time. Well, thinking back to it, I think my, I was very happy. I think my heart rate was higher when that interview started than when Frankie and I ran to the first T of the Rider. I was just,

he, he just appeared, it always happens with these interviews and we have big gits or big storyline, people on this show, they just appear on the Zoom

and you're like, there they are. That's a guy, and Zach Johnson and I have the most history with, just being from where I'm from. And, you know, he's talked about so glowingly

in Cedar Rapids and throughout my whole life that like, then he just appeared on a Zoom screen and we started talking. So it was, it was fun. It was a big moment.

And I hope that at some point, him and I are, are, we cross paths in Cedar Rapids at some point. I'd love to play golf or just go out to dinner. I think a hug is in your future was Zach Johnson. I'll hug, I'll hug you after that. You know, you were pretty excited to talk to him.

I was. I think he'd like to. We really hammered home how much of a fan you were. Yeah. I know. I had to. I had to because what I felt was probably coming was you guys saying how you feel about him.

And I just wanted to prepare him with love and kindness before the sharks got in the water. We talked about the infamous Clarich drug picture. That was a funny little bit. We talked about Kinnick Stadium. That was a good thing. So, yeah, we really get into it. But Zach Johnson, what a guest.

Yeah, I mean, Zach Johnson's won two majors at the old course at St. Andrews and Augusta National. So he's got some iconic wins, 12 PGA tour wins. He was just the assistant or the vice captain for obviously the Rider Cup team. We get some really good tidbits about what that's like on com. what they're allowed to say, what they're not, what kind of advice they relay on par threes. And he is the heavy, heavy favorite

to be the captain of the U.S. team in Rome in two years in 2023. So even outside of Trent's Love Fest for Zach Johnson, The Needle, as he calls him, it's just a really good interview. So I assume I'm guessing people don't want to hear me and Frankie yell at each other anymore. So luckily they get to hear Zach Johnson on this show. And then Doug Ellen, of course, course, who we've had on before. He was with Kevin Dillon the first time. Entourage is just like we all grew up

with Entourage. We were all going high school, college, whatever, and that's, you're like living vicariously through Entourage in the Hollywood scene. So we then kind of throw a hold of look at you and get into that. We talk a little bit of golf as well. We also got to talk about Owens Mixers before we throw it to Zach Johnson. Owen's craft mixers. They give everybody the ability to make a high quality cocktail right at home. Perfect for anyone like us who does not have a clue how to make cocktails from scratch. You can try, but you won't do it as well. It was. Owens Mixers. You just mix Owens with whatever liquor you want to drink.

You are good to go. You can go to their store locator, which is Owensmixers.com. Find out the nearest store to you. You guys have the Owens Mixers right in front of your little noggins right there, which is nice to see. Cute little packaging, purple, green, white, transfusion logo, delicious with vodka. You pour it in. You got an awesome golf cocktail.

We got Palomas, ladies and gentlemen. We got all kinds of good drinks. Yeah, it's Bachelor in Paradise tonight as well. So we'll be drinking the market. margarita mix from Owens. They represent our cutting stem show. So we're just, we're very Owens mixers heavy in this office and we have it everywhere and we drink it all the time, all the time. We do. We were drinking it all week last week and it was a delightful time and it made drinking a delicious cocktail very simple. So a big thanks to Owens for just existing and being awesome. They got

the cool donkey logo. So they're great. What a trope that was too. I mean, that was an incredible All-time trophy. Transfusion flowing out of a thing and a trophy? What was that? That guy gets to take that, he gets to take that thing home with him. Shout out to Elwood the Donkey, who was at that Piner shoot with us. Elwood the Donkey. Before we toss this to the first interview, I do think that we need to allow Lurch to

give his thoughts on what happened at the Ryder Cup, specifically Riggs-Y-Ridcoat, because I feel like your voice was not heard by the people when it came to your thoughts about Riggs. It was really just me screaming at Riggs the entire time. So I would like, I would like for you. I saw, I saw pieces of that also, I listened to a blurb of it the other day. And actually, I recorded something with Jake, but maybe that wasn't released on the podcast. I'm not sure. I guess that wasn't. I think the logistics was just, yeah, we just got it as fast as possible. So I listened and then actually, you know, Riggs said he was objective and he looks at things fairly and he was wrong in every which way that he could be. And I think that that is accurate.

think the most interesting point, like Riggs' crux of his argument was like, we need a glue guy, we need a team guy, we need Kisner to be that kind of the semblance to bring it all together to have some fun and the only way people do great work, I believe, is like if they have fun, and Kisner was that guy. Now the team went out and got the most points ever, which just, you know, kills your argument. Obviously Riggs was wrong and said that. I mean, we got 10 of those guys, it turns out. 10 to 12, like a, of, guys who want to do it. Like we don't, I understand that Riggs Kisner was like he was going to be the guy.

Sure seems like we got eight to ten to maybe 12 guys who were just like, yeah, we like to have fun and kick the shit out of team Europe. Right. No, I mean, and I don't think we have the blabber or the heart part anymore. Like it was pretty well, pretty obvious. It was awesome to see the guys like come off the course and give Rigs you some shit. Yeah, I mean, it was just an unreal experience watching the Riter Cup. One, obviously you were all there.

I wasn't. I was in Turkey for the first couple days and then got home to watch it on the weekend. Whistling Straits showed as well as it potentially ever could have. I mean, that tournament was just incredible. I was so jealous of seeing you boys run out there. It was one of the all-time videos of Frankie, you and Trent running out to the first date. Just really, just gold all the way through. But yeah, it was just phenomenal tournament. Go USA. It was incredible to see us just kick ass and just just win every day. And then Scotty Sheffler just put a stamp on it by beating John Rom, like Salome, the way he just took the first five, six hole.

It was just incredible. So, no, all in all, just an amazing weekend of golf. Riggs was wrong. He said he was wrong. US just put a bow on it. It was exceptional. And honestly, some of this comes out in the ZJ interview. So, you know, be ready to listen in on that.

I think that's honestly one of the more interesting interviews from a captain's perspective that I've ever heard. So well done on representing the USA brand, Frankie and Trent out there. You did an excellent job. Thank you. Rigsie, are you back on U.S. soil or are you kind of still Europe? Or where does your fandom sit for next year, Ryder Cup? Everything I saw from Team USA, like what I was wrong about were the things that beforehand, like if you're a U.S. guy, and tried to have been my whole life.

Like you were hoping to be wrong about. Like in the sense that they didn't need Kevin Kisner. You're right. Like that's what I was mainly wrong about. I would say the thing I was right about was that like they clearly found the like that chemistry and all of their talk afterwards was about how they've never had this kind of group of guys, how everybody was all in. Everybody was playing for Captain Stricker and for the guy next to them.

So yeah, if you're not like after seeing all that, if I wouldn't be rooting for that, then I would be none of anything that I've. ever done would have made sense because that was sort of what I was upset that they never had and that I was wrong about that they weren't going to have. So yeah, absolutely. But I think that that team, like that team, if they're going to gel like that and be that high in the world rankings and skill and all that, it's just going to be very difficult to see them losing any president's cup or any Ryder Cup, especially on home soil, like ever. And again, people, Some people were making the point of like Francesco Mollari.

Like in 2016, the U.S. won on home soil. Francesco Mollari was like 37th in the world on nobody's radar to be on any Ryder Cup team. And then two years later in Paris, he was 5'00-1-1-1-1-a-major that year. So like you don't know who's going to emerge. But if that team can play as well as they played and have everything else, all the extracurriculars, all of their like singular focus towards a good thing, thing, like that's the easiest thing to root for, I would say, in the world.

Yeah, I think that, and that speaks to the parody of golf, though. Like, if you're the number one ranked player in the world and you're playing the 50th or, you know, call it 40th best basketball player in the world, like LeBron James is just bigger, stronger, faster than that 40. Like, so I do think with golf it can get hot, but, you know, a recency bias of watching that team and all the best players in the world and the way they played was just exceptional. I mean, it was just, it was a storm.

And, you know, Bryson continues to be that roller coaster ride of a relationship of like, like him, hate him, like him, hate him, like this past weekend of the Rider Cup, at least on TV. You know, I know he was not intending to joke, but he was doing things that were just outrageous and laughable and funny. Like hitting a bomb drive on the first hole, making the pot, but then also stretching his putter out to say, like, that should have been good when he has like a six foot putter. It was just like the back and forth of Bryson. So anyways, all and all, incredible weekend ago. golf so fun to watch jealous that you boys were there i wish i was there with you um would have been

an exceptional experience um but yeah go u s a and i again right now it's just that team's never gonna ever gonna lose again so shout scotty schfler scotty schofler i don't think we talked about enough people were tweeting as that we missed that really in terms of like the full breakdown but him taking down john ron that's that was just a stamp on the weekend yeah i knew it i knew it i tweeted I tweeted it 8.04 p.m. the night before John Rom is going, or Scott Schaeffler was going to beat John Rom. And I was right. A lot of doubters in my mentions that night, as you would imagine. But then when he won the first, what, five holes, I started to look pretty smart. And then I was really smart when he won the whole thing. And your tweets are 100% accurate all the time? Always.

No. I have been here a long time. I couldn't go through him and find one inaccurate one. But yeah, Sky Schaeffler's a beast. Just to see him go out there and beat. by far the greatest golfer on planet Earth right now was you're right it was the stamp that was we needed that because we didn't really need it but it was like going into that sunday they were saying all right john rom that's a point for europe that was probably their rallying point of like this is where it's going to start and then scotty took all the wind out of their sales all of it it's also like DJ went out of his way to like point that out in the presser afterwards like DJ literally was like hey how about like our our rallying cry on sunday when you don't want to get complaints. and you don't want to think that you've got it done. You don't want to, you know, it's not over until it's not, like, hit DJ himself, who went 5010 going out of his way to be like, yeah, the biggest thing was when Scotty took down John Rom, we were all like, all right, we can win, we can do this, we've got the confidence,

we're going to bury them. So Scotty Shephyr, I mean, huge fan of a friend of the program. Just kudos to him. What a fucking beast. Told you to eat shit. He's a friend of a couple of people on the program. I don't know that he's, he likes to see that long trying out. You got some fences to mend, I think, with a couple of the guys on Team O's.

I don't know if they're going to forget. Maybe. I don't know if they're going to forget ever. No, I don't think anyone's going to forget ever. That was going to be my closing point is, you know, no one's going to forget this. Justin Thomas will never forget. No one's going to forget this. You can't just, you're going to be wearing.

This was too much, you know, it was too public. It was way, way too right, you're wrong. Prior to this, there was a lot of arguments, three weeks' worth of arguments. And so, you know, we were proved to be right. And I think that's going to help us going forward. It's going to be tough for you to gain the trust of the American people again. I do that. I do that. I knew you couldn't get through a show without having to do that.

I figured that. You guys going to put the gloves off? No, I didn't bring it up. I didn't bring it up at all. I like it. I think Frankie made a great point. Okay. Also, are we done with Kevin Kisner on this team?

Have you put that publicly? Like, are you, if let's say Kisner is 15th ranked in Rome, do you think he should be? added to the next team but you're saying no I think I think if no I'm saying are we gonna are we gonna do this no I'm saying are we going to do the same thing next time

if Kevin Kisner is like a bubble guy or are we just are we okay with rolling out this next this same team in Rome is my is my question or are we going to do another if you don't put Kevin Kisner on this team I'm going to go root for you I think like what I just described makes that a really weird question

like there was a guy in Francesco Mauna who literally went from not even close to one of the best players in the world that went 5-0 and 0. So like to I can't answer that right now. I don't know. No. So, Brinkie's saying like if your guy, if Kisner doesn't get selected on the next team because he's a bubble guy still, but he doesn't get selected again,

are you going to do the same song and dance of being like, well, I'm going to root for Europe if my guy doesn't get selected? Well, no. I think like clearly what I just described was like the team has shown. Okay. positives from all the things that I thought were negative. Right. And I agree with that.

So no, I don't think, I don't foresee that. Yeah. Yeah, I guess, hey, it'll be a brand new world then. Who knows what's going to happen? Who knows? But, boy, I mean, what I saw in Turkey, anything can happen in this world. So you know what I mean? Let's just hope we get to the next day, my man.

Can't even imagine that. No. We're home safe. So anyways, are we going to kick it over to these interviews because they're fantastic. They are very good. We got the needle, Zach Johnson, two-time major winner, 12-time PGA tour winner, vice captain, and most likely the Ryder Cup captain coming up next for the USA. So here's Zach Johnson.

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It's got all my cards, got my ID, it's got my laundry card in there that I'm looking at, a little bit of cash. This thing, it's rugged, it's nice. I was in the market for a new wallet coming up, and Nomad jumped on, and I was like, send me one of those wallets. I'll see if I like it, and I love it. I'm never going to get rid of this thing. I don't think it's ever going to break.

I think it's in here for the long haul. So shout out to Nomad for my wallet. What's a laundry card? It's like all the machines in my laundry machine. in the basement of my building. It's not quarters like the... You don't use a credit card? Like the 50s.

No. It's like a gift card. It's this. I'll give it to you. It's one of those and you load it up every time you put 20 bucks on it. Yeah, Jake Scott went to, same one. When I was in the city, I just used my card. Oh.

Credit card? Yeah. You like tap the machine? Yeah. It was like an Amex and I would just raise it up and it would be like approved. That machine cut out the middleman because I have to put my card. Right. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. I would prefer that, I suppose. but like this one I load it up. We have the same one. It seems like a monopoly on laundry cards. Hercules. What the hell is that? I don't know.

Oh, wow. Hercules was the one I used in Boston. What the hell's going on with Hercules? That is like the only gift card system for a wallet. So does everyone that has a nomad wallet have a herc-is, is everyone in a city that they have to go to a laundromat? Do they have a Hercules laundry card inside their- They're just crushing that business? They got a monopoly on it, I think.

Yeah, Jake said his significant other has one as well. I got this cool leather for my AirPods, so this thing's bad. It's on my desk. Nomad, they just created a really good product. iPhone 13 just came out. The crew over, and Madd already has cases available for. They have an awesome rugged leather one that features whoreween leather.

Say that again. And breathe as hard as you did in the mic the first time. Horween leather? No, yeah. It's a strong first syllable liver. It is nice leather. Whatever it is, it's nice. H-O-R-W-E-E-N.

How would you say that? I think you did perfect. I think that's a password. Everybody has to say it now. I am not saying that one. Spell it again. H-O-R-W-E-E-N. H-R-W-E-N-Lather is, well.

That's how Riggs did it, but Horween, yeah. Yeah. Horween. Horween. Horween. Horween. I don't know that you have to put an emphasis on the whore. Well, yeah.

But like now that you've had time to digest it, I was just reading through it in real time. I just kind of shocked me when I saw it. The risk of the read. Horwine weather, leather. Weather. Nomad uses leather from the Horween tannery in Chicago. That smells amazing. That's true.

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Zach Johnson. Zach, welcome to the show, my friend. Hey, thanks. Appreciate it. Thanks, gentlemen. Pumped to be on. A little bit of a white whale. It's been a long time coming for this guy. I mean, I don't know that you have a bigger fan in the world than Trent Ryan of Barcelona Sports.com. I mean, it's been how many years have you been on the Zach Johnson train? It's even been before we started this podcast. He's been writing blogs about Zach Johnson. So I mean, forever. Ever since, you know, obviously the 2007 Masters was huge. You made my uncle and my dad cry that day. When they watched that, they started tearing up. So that was great. I mean, I'm from Cedar Rapids. So I've known about you forever.

There's a street named after you in Cedar Rapids. Like, I know it all. So I'm just a huge fan. I'm very excited to have you on the show. Well, hey, no, I appreciate it. I mean, I didn't realize the fan who was that deep. But it sounds like you were a fan before podcasts. So I guess that's a long time.

Are you more nervous now, Zach, after hearing that fandom? Is it scary a little bit? Or is you? Taking them. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, I mean, not to make light of it, but I mean, Trent can tell you, I mean, if you're from that area and you have somebody that, you know, that grew up in that area or that you have some sort of attachment to, you're going to push them, you're going to follow them, you're going to, you're going to be a fan. I mean, I am. I mean, if I wasn't the one inside of the ropes, I've always said I'd be the one outside of the ropes doing it.

And because, I mean, it's a family, it's a family area. I mean, that's just what we do. We push our own and, you know, there's not that many people that can get to a level where, you know, it grabs national attention. Now, those that do, I mean, I'm a massive fan of Kurt Warner. I'm a massive fan of Sean Johnson. I mean, the individual is going on and on and on, you know, so I'm grateful. I mean, I'm a product of great people. Evidently, Trent is one of those.

And we're going to keep going with it. Awesome. That's everything I want it. Right there. Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, like now, you know, that, like, answer, that wholesome, that Midwest, you're Cedar Rapids and what it means to the town. Now we kind of feel like jerks because Trent calls you the needle. I mean, he, you know, whenever he gets into, he's like, Zach Johnson, the needle. And we give him a hard times.

We're like, you know, I mean, look, if we're going to get into it, Zach Johnson, needle, we love Zach Johnson. And now with that wholesome answer, it's like, it means the world to Cedar Rapids and how great of an answer that was. now we feel like total jerks over here. No, no, no, no. Well, let me get it because the perception is that Iowa is just boring. And then I, so they think I'm boring, they think the state is boring. They think the landscape is boring. They think you're boring.

And I'm like, no, it's actually a place where people are from and people are nice and cool. 100%. I mean, I mean, I got a long litany of things I could say right now. I mean, I would say, you know, the first thing is, is, you know, talking about about like Iowa football, right? It's not a very sexy product. It's not, it's not flashy, but they get wins. You know, the recruits that come into Iowa City, they're like, man, I don't know if I should go there. And then they go there, they love it. So, you know, it's, it's all about the community. It's all about the people. It's all about the support.

But it does, it has, there's, you know, there's some awesome amenities. There's some awesome, there's some awesome places there that, I mean, I think, you know, people, if they actually give a shot, would actually enjoy it. I mean, quite frankly, that Cedar Avenue, is the Iowa City Corridor from a business standpoint is absolutely exploding. So, you know, it's wholesome. It is. But there's also opportunity. And I think, I think, you know, Iowa in general, but specifically that area right there,

there's a lot of positive attributes. Now, my peers and my caddies would say, you know, man, Iowans are everywhere. Why aren't they in Iowa? Because they're everywhere. It doesn't matter where I go. They're everywhere. They like to travel. They like to push their own.

That's the beauty of that state. There you go. You just got to give it a chance. I feel like I've been neutered on this podcast. I mean, you've essentially eight-mile me. I mean, I don't know how much more. Yeah, we've called Iowa boring. We've laughed at the John Deere Classic.

When we talk about when he is wearing a Zach Johnson jersey and he basically wants to get a tattoo of you on his heart, I'm like, I mean, there are so many more exciting. fighting, you know, people that actually show their emotions. Not these people that just want to give people hugs and handshakes like the Midwestern people. And he's just always stood by you. And you know what? I mean, you are a fantastically nice person and you've completely neutered me. And I'm glad to have you on the podcast now.

I mean, it's, uh, this is a huge turning point for this podcast, Zach. I got to tell you, we've been doing this for years talking about Iowa. And the fact that you're on here just completely taking our guard down is it's, it's revolutionary. This is a huge moment. What a week for Trent. I feel like I should apologize, but I'm really not going to. Don't. Don't.

You better not apologize. I'm just bringing facts. Sorry. Well, look, obviously that's huge for us. You don't know how big this is for us, but I think you're starting to get a little bit of a day. You've been talked about a ton on this show. You'll be talked about a lot, I imagine, over the next few years based on the Rider Cup. You're coming off the Rider Cup.

You've been a part of many, many teams, either playing, Vice Captain this last week, monumental win for U.S., record-breaking win. You're fighting a little lost voice. You've been after it, yelling out there talking. I'm sure having a good time. What was this week like for you? I mean, it's hard to articulate. Very, very, very, very special.

I mean, I sit here now or flat, granted, it's only been. I don't even know what it's been 24 hours, if that. 36 hours, call it. I'm just grateful for the opportunity to be a part of it. I mean, you know, strict didn't have to ask me. I mean, we're very good friends. Probably like-minded in some respects, but I think we both get it that, you know,

we can, whatever wisdom we have, we can shed to these kids, whatever sort of experiences we have, we can be a, we can certainly be an asset. But we also both fully know and understand that we're not going to be hitting a shot. So let's just put these guys in position that's comfortable, that's almost feels somewhat normal, even though it's the router cup. And just, you know, as I think some guys said, just let our horses run because they're really good. So we just don't want to get in the way. We don't want to interfere with their week-to-week preparation, their day-to-day preparation.

Just let them go because they're hungry, they've prepared, they've done everything the right way. And it's just a matter of getting them in that posture so that they can succeed. What does your day-to-day look like as a vice captain at the Rider Cup, Friday, Saturday, Sunday? Like, what's your goal out there? What are you trying to do? Are you following specific groups? Like, what's your goal while you're out there? Well, I mean, it does vary.

I would say that the consistencies of it are Friday through Sunday. You know, there's obviously, there's only four groups, right, per session. So we had five vice captains and Captain Stricker. Now, logistics at whistling straits were awful. I mean, it's just, it's just the golf course, the way it is intrinsically. You just can't navigate that thing. in a cart. So we're on foot, you know, 95% of the time.

And that's okay. I mean, like I said, there's only four groups Friday and Saturday. So in 2018 and 19, I followed J.T. Almost entirely. And then Jordan was with them in 2018. So naturally, Jordan was with them, you know, a portion of this year's cup. So that really was my. my group that I kind of hung on to, excuse me, on Friday and Saturday.

They, and I had a pod, you know, I guess you'd call it, or whatever you want to call, a foursome group Tuesday through Thursday, but mine changed in practice round. So there wasn't, again, that there's the inconsistency. But those two guys kind of requested me just follow alongside of them. I mean, you know, really outside of Phil, I guess I'm really the only peer. you know, but still competing with these kids on the PGA tour, right? So,

I mean, I'm familiar and they're familiar with me. And, you know, now I say all that. Does that really matter? No, because they love Davis.

I mean, who doesn't? They love Freddie. Oh, my gosh. All those kids love Freddie. And it's Phil. And Jim Furrick, you know,

was their captain three years ago. So it's not like, you know, it was just one of those things the way it kind of fit. You know, we kind of try to match personalities to guys. But more just, hey, who are you more familiar with and we'll go that route? And those two guys are good friends of mine. I mean, bottom line, and even though they're, well, they can be my kids, which is scary.

But so that's kind of how I went about it. It's kind of how strict wanted us to go about it. But we were always, you know, we had a near piece. We looked really official. Most of the time, trying not to laugh in somebody's back swing because Phil's making some outrageous comment that was hysterical. So he kept it lively. It was his first go at it.

And I can honestly say it was beautiful. This is commentary of watching guys hit shots. And then you can hear Amy in the background. I was going, oh, Phil, you know, that kind of stuff. Like, I mean, it was just amazing stuff. Just amazing stuff. So those walks were tiring because I had, I mean, I basically went. you know, 36 holes a day.

It's probably another reason why my voice is cracked right now. But just amazing. The first tee was outrageous. Just so special. I mean, it was unbelievable. Complete chaos. We were right there. I mean, I couldn't imagine that that was happening at a golf course.

We were sitting in the second row on Sunday with the fans in the mix and just the vibe. Everyone knew that a win was on the horizon and it was just a celebration. An absolute celebration of Team USA, of golf in general. I mean, what Bryson did on that first tee, driving the green, holding up his putter to the whole entire crowd. I mean, I've never seen a moment like that in golf general as opposed to, I mean, not just the Rider Cup. So, yeah, I can't imagine what it was like walking in between the ropes there and just, you know, people just wanted to be out, everything we've been through 2020. And obviously now the beginning of 2021, man, it just felt like, it just felt like a celebration. The whole thing was awesome.

It felt like one big party. Yeah, I mean, it kind of felt like that. too. Granted, I mean, it was a, it was a party around us. You know, we were still kind of trying to work. But, I mean, walking through that tunnel, frankly, the first time I ran through it. I mean, I just, I'm like, I'm going to the first D. It was before the first session on Friday.

I was jacked up. I felt like I was going into a football stadium, right? I mean, I was just jacked. And that's really when my voice started to go. But, yeah, the first D is so special. The chance, obviously, the songs, the dance. I told Strick at the beginning of week, I'm like, I can't believe I'm saying this because I despise the University of Wisconsin. Probably more so out of jealousy in some respects, but I'm like, you got to get jumping around going.

You know, you got to get out on the first team. And so he, you know, he went, I don't know where they got to, the ops guy. The ops guy is like, yeah, that'd be awesome. We got the speakers. We can do it. But they're a little concerned about the stands. And I can understand that. I mean, if I don't know how many people are there,

5,000, I don't have any idea. But if they're jumping around on that thing, and they were, but, you know, maybe not in all unison. So it was awesome. And you said it, that one shout that Bryson did. I mean, I think he had his putter in his hand before the ball landed.

It was nuts. Pretty much. It was crazy. Isn't it amazing? I've said this a lot, and I really noticed it at the Ryder Cup. That whatever the number is, 5,000, 10,000 people are right around

that first tea. Isn't it crazy that everyone, in this world where there's idiots and losers that ruin things for everyone, isn't it amazing that everyone gets quiet for that first tea shot? It's, it is a stunning silence. When like, it is. It's scary.

When Xander Shafley stepped up to the first T on Sunday, I looked around and I said, I can't believe we don't have one person that's ruining this for everyone. You know what I mean? It's an amazing. I'm not saying I want that to happen. No one wants that happened. I'm just saying it's amazing that at golf, we all the rules at a golf event.

Baseball, people are running on the field and football. They're throwing things all like they're, it's just crazy. And if it was going to happen to be the Rider Cup, because that's the rowdiest event. It blows my mind every time. Yeah, no, it is an interesting dynamic. There's something about it.

I mean, you know, I think it's great. I mean, I think it's actually pretty fascinating that a crowd of that, whatever that number is, can go from complete chaos to silence. in a matter of two or three seconds. I mean, if we're really going to cut down. Like you said, there's always that 1% of the 1% that are A-holes, right? That just have to hear their voice. I mean, just so they can get it out there.

Now, I did see, I saw two people in the first T kicked out and saw a couple others out in the golf course that were asked to leave. So, you know, they were cracked down appropriately because there's always those guys, right? For some reason over there, it's not quite like that. I mean, I don't know if it's a reverence or just the culture. I mean, we, American fans just like to hear the audible noise of their voice. And they're not afraid to say something if they have some frosty beverages. That's why New York should be interesting, too, because you're coming to my hometown then.

We're done talking about Iowa and the Midwest nights. You're going to come to our town. It's going to start getting nasty. over there. I mean, we're going to start letting it loose. I can't even imagine. I mean, the golf course itself is fantastic, and then you throw the fans in there. It's going to be, wow.

Wow. When you're vice captain like that, you're with the pod, you're with your guys, how you know, hands-on, detail do you get? Like, are you paying attention to, you know, how the wind's affecting shots and the group in front and trying to relay that to guys?

Are you way more backed off than that? Like how into it can you be? Do they want you to be? Do you decide to be? Right, right. Well, this is where there's a lot of parameters. Okay. So, and there's also differences between the presence cup and the router cup,

some subtletes, some, you know, subtle nuances, and then some that are pretty significant. So in the router cup, Captain Stricker is the only one that can relay advice to a player before a shot before a hole. So now I can stand on a part three T box and say, hey, Strik, JT hit a three-quarter cut eight iron. I mean, you know, and it was 20 feet past the pin, whatever it may be. I can tell him that. But then he, I can't tell, you know, the next guy behind me that that's what, what happened. So in that regard, you know, he typically, if I don't know if you could really tell via television,

he was really on the par three's a lot. And then we even had him on six, which was far four, depending upon the pin and wind, it was drivable. So, shots, where the ball is landing,

you know, what guys are hitting, and then there's Bryson, you know, JT's hitting a cut six and Bryson is smashing a nine, okay, that does you know good.

You don't need to know that. But there are instances where you have to, really take in the information that could be beneficial, relay it, and let him go to work. So now, Teter Green, I mean, I'm just there. I mean, I'm really just there. I can't even, I don't initiate much. I might give him a pat on the back, high five if they make the far put. It's safe to squirt, have the hole, win the hole, whatever.

But, you know, I might, I mean, I can say, hey, let's get it going. You know, more golf left. That's not advice. That's encouragement. But that's rare. I'm just there because more times than not, I mean, I'm walking side by side with Jimmy and Griller, their caddies and them. And if they want to talk, they're talking. I mean, you won't believe this stuff we're talking.

We're talking about football. We're talking about this. We're talking about that just to get their minds off really what's going on. So I'm just kind of there as a buffer between, you know, reality and, you know, just kind of setting into what they're doing. Stricker needs a jetpack to fly him around. If he's got the only one that can relay to important information, you've got to get him something flying around the golf course. Right.

And that's exactly right. And so here's, and I'll give you the generality of it, the difference between the Ryder Cup and the Presence Cup is you're able to pass only one person in the Presence Cup like the Ryder Cup can give advice. However, you can pass that. So, I don't mean. Oh, so you can pass captainship a little bit? like a soccer player that passes the bandana or whatever.

Yeah. So like down in Australia, granted, our captain was playing. So we were able to pass that right almost hold a whole shot to shot. It kind of threw the rules committee for a loop. We were inside the rules. And so we had. So you can pass it that quickly? So, like, if someone, you can just be like, I don't know, head official, ZJ's got the captainship for the next 15th.

You have to alert somebody? Like, who do you have to alert? Yeah. So, like, in the router cup, we have a, we have a rules guy with us that's on our mic, okay? He's technically a part of our team. He works for the PG of America. The European team would have the same type of individual. And the President's Cup, it's also the same thing.

We've got our own team, you know, frequency. and we're able to pass that off with the rules official hearing it. And he's just like, okay, you know, it's been passed, whatever the official terminology is. So like the third hole in Melbourne was a par three, and it was a brute. And then the fifth hole was a par three, and it was short, but the grain was like a potato chip.

So we had two guys there, we were just kind of like passing them off. And I'm telling you, if you guys were to go back and look, don't. But if you were to go back, and look at like the fifth hole in particular, I don't think we lost that hole on Sunday. As a matter of fact, I know we won it at 50 plus percent of the time. And that was massive because that was actually getting pretty close.

So little nuances like that were, you know, we're pretty aware of, pretty keen of. The router cup, the parameters are a lot different and harder. So, you know, you work within those, you work within those in the rules and just try to make the best you can of it. I would love to see the documentation of all the captaincy switches. You know, just like that. And it's just lines back and forth, back and forth. Somebody's got like a leatherbound book somewhere with just all the information. Right, right.

Right. I mean a thousand switches versus five on their side. Something just outrageous. Introducing the new whoop 4.0. Is that right? Does that sound right for everybody? 4.0. 4.0.

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That's never going to happen. The technology doesn't exist. And then Woop arrived on the scene, and they started doing it. Wasn't it, was it Justin Thomas, whose heart rate went down? I think it started to go down as he went on top of the ball. He was like 1.30, and then he addressed the ball, and it was like 125, 120, 120, 118, like as he's staring at the ball, which to me, that's a savage. That's a pro.

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You get 50% off. Zach, I know we don't have you for much longer, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about the John Deere Classic and what it means to you, what it means of that community, because I've been to that tournament a bunch. My family goes every year. You've won it once. You've got a ton of runner-ups at that tournament.

Just let the people know what that tournament means. to that community? To the community. And to you. Well, to me, it's like going home. I mean, it really is. I mean, it is very much a part of, I guess you'd say, my professional family. It's very much in the fabric of my family.

I mean, it's a tournament that gave me two sponsor exemptions when I didn't have status on the PGA tour, two experiences that I can't repay. So amazing people, amazing tournament, amazing sponsorship with John Deere on a great golf course. You know, the tournament does a great job. I'm on the board of the tournament. So, you know, my bias is pretty thick. That's fine. And I appreciate certainly why they do it, what they do and how they do it.

Now, the first part of your question, the tournament, what it does with that community is massive. I mean, the amount of organizations that benefit from that very one week is long. And those monies are used, you know, for the betterment of the community, specifically kids and families. So it's very special. It's been, you know, COVID of 2020 did not help matters there. I mean, we kind of did some things on the side, but, you know, you can only get back so much when you don't actually have the week. So this 2021 week was really, really special. Zach, I got to ask you something.

Can we just talk about the picture with the claret jug? You know, the famous picture with the eyes open. I feel like it's been a viral sensation. When you won the open, the picture with the claret jug, it's become a viral sensation every time Zach Johnson's in the news or he's playing, they post that picture. Is that something that you're like, I can't believe that that's the one that got surfaced around? I mean, like, all the pictures of me winning the open, that's the one that everyone uses.

Right. I get, there's two pictures that I get asked about. That's one of them. And this one's a really stupid answer, but it's the truth. I'm kissing it, right? And they're like, hey, open your eyes and kiss it. I'm like, okay. So like, right when I open my eyes, they took a picture.

I mean, that's all it was. I'm like, you know, I'm basically closing my eyes, making out with it because I'm so excited. And then they open your eyes. So that's a stupid answer, but it's the truth. Yeah. The other one. It opens their eyes and kisses. Makes sense.

That's weird. Yeah. I don't want to open my eyes. I'm with my baby right now. I mean, I miss that thing, too. The other one is I actually put an ear of corn in there. Yep. Like, oh, that's, you know, irreverent or whatever you want to call it.

I mean, I, okay. But, hey, you know where I came from, if there's anything that is accepted. or even encouraged, it's probably that. Am I right? Yes, absolutely. You are absolutely right. I think you're a corn out of the clear jug. I don't know anybody else is done.

Are we going to beat Penn State? That's really my number one question. If we get through Maryland, yes. Okay. So you don't want to look ahead at all? No, I do not. I don't actually. I feel, I mean, trap game.

I don't know. I mean, I guess you could. call it that. I actually appreciate the fact that it's on Friday, I think whatever Kirk and his guys have in preparation for Friday games has been working. Yeah, true. For a long time now. I like it. I like that you're not looking past Maryland. We've got to get through them before we get to Penn State. I think that's smart. I do wish Penn State was a night game. I can't go. But I mean, that's the perfect night game. So, but it's not. Kinnic at night is a beautiful thing. It's unbelievable. I actually got to witness the Michigan game,

Keith Duncan kicking the field goal, and then after the next year, the Ohio State game, both games I really didn't want to go to because we didn't have much momentum. But I took my family and we were able to witness unbelievable night games at Kinnock. That Michigan game has a lot of meaning for me as well. I bet my boss or he bet me that if Iowa beat Michigan, then I I would move to New York. I was living in Cedar Rapids at the time, and Keith Duncan made that kick, and the rest is history. I've been in New York for five years. We might not be doing this podcast. It was a big moment, man. Like, Dave brought like this core people from Barcelona, New York, and then Trent was always the one in Cedar Rapids, and they're like, when's Trent going to go to New York?

Like, when are you going to get him in the mix? And he's like, well, if Iowa beats Michigan, I'll give him a chance. Because there was no chance that I was supposed to win the game, as you know. It's freaking happened. And now you're looking five years later. and now we get to talk to Zach Johnson on a podcast. So things really happened over there at a Kinnick. Yeah, special place. It is special. It really is.

The wave, obviously, that hits home, too. My niece was there, well, shoot, almost a year ago now, with a massive infection. She was in there for like eight or nine nights. So, I mean, everything about that place is special for the job. I mean, that was my childhood. I mean, that's what we did. Elgated on Saturdays, and we went to the game.

I mean, that's just. what we did. And, you know, my wife's like, yeah, we've got whatever, so many odd seats and we can't even sit in suites. I'm like, sweets, no. We're sitting with the people. These are my people. I'm going out in stands.

That's where I do. I mean, if I'm going to go to a game, I'm going to go, I'm not going there to have a bloody Mary at halftime. I mean, I'm going there to watch football. We can party in the, you know, in the parking lot, but I'm, I'm there to watch some football. It is, it's every, and my kids, my boys in particular, I got two boys. They, if we don't go to a game, they're, they're so upset with me. So we're going to try to get to a game this fall.

We'll see how it works out. Yeah, we had season tickets in the South end zone for forever. So I went to games growing up all the time. It's just the best place in the world on Saturday. It is literally, I mean, we're biased, right? I've been in some pretty cool arenas. I've been, I've been fortunate to see a bunch of cool stadiums. Bat Rouge is outrageous.

I'm just going to throw that out there. I mean, outrageous. Penn State's actually pretty darn good, too. You know, those wide outs are cool. I'm telling you, Iowa City is really, really good. If you have no bias, it's a place you got to knock off your bucket list. On a pro level, we just awesome. Yeah, we went, it's like, seeing stadiums is romantic.

It is. We just went to Lambo when we were out by you guys, and it was, boy, the lights were kind of like, half off, half on. We went at like 8 o'clock at night. And the way that they had these two American flags in the light waving, I mean, oh my goodness. It honestly felt like you were walking through a movie set. Yeah, it did. The fact that they had just bleachers, it looked like the big house. My God. Yeah. Lambos' college is NFL gets. Right. That's right. Yeah. I'm a Packers fan, but that place is awesome. Right. I mean, it's all. Yeah, that was kind of our take. It was like clean. It didn't feel like there were a ton of advertisements on it. It's the

bleachers. bleachers, yeah, that place was cool. It is cool. I mean, you know, the town kind of owns that place, right? Yeah, big time. Literally. So how do you go now, you know, Ryder Cup to the Sanderson Farms? Is that like a nice, you know, debris or kind of, you know, you come down from the, from the mountain? Yeah.

How does it feel? Well, my motivation is pretty high. I'll put it that way, after what I just witnessed. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't hit a shot in the Friday before the Rotter Cup. I haven't practiced and I still haven't. I slept a lot yesterday.

I slept in today. I'm still tired, but I'm going to go play. No expectations. Kind of get back to what I'm used to, get the clubs in the hand and go. I'm scheduled to play as well in Vegas the next week. So, I mean, I'm excited to compete. I mean, after what I went through,

I mean, you know, last week's one of those, like my wife, she always asked me. She's like, hey, what would you feel like? there. I'm like, well, I want to play. You know, I mean, vice captaining is great. And I vice captain my, you know, what off. But it's, I'm still a competitor. I mean, you know, the bottom line is I want to hit shots. I love serving. I love representing the greatest flag in the world. But I also know that, you know, I was, I'm a competitor first. So it just depends on what outlet that comes out. So I'm excited. Jackson is a great, great tournament. Sanderson does, I mean,

amazing. It's actually one of the more underrated facilities we play at. So, I mean, I'm encouraged and excited to get out there and get back to work. Yeah, I feel like the caddies always rave about the facilities at this one. I feel like this is what this one gets like singled out as they treat everybody really well with the facilities and everything, which is awesome. It's Southern hospitality at its best. There you go. Well, look, I know we don't have time to get into everything. We appreciate the time that you did take. You've won, you know, majors at perhaps the two most iconic venues you could possibly win major championships at. We don't have time to get into all that. You're the odds on favorite to be the writer-up captain going forward. You'll definitely be a

part of the team in some capacity. We don't have time to get all that. But, you know, we've, this was a big show for us, like we said. So we really appreciate, you know, you taking the time. No, no, my pleasure. You know what? If you want to get into all that, we'll do it again. Yeah, without you. You got to come back on a little time. about all that stuff. And I had to get this in. I once said that you looked like an astronaut, and it's the most random thing I've ever said, but I want to show you this picture. And tell me if you think that this is something that you, like, you may have missed your calling here. Are you able to see this picture? I see it, yeah. What do you think about that? You look great in that.

I can't argue with your statement. I think that was. You look like an astronaut. There's something about the way that you're looking at that suit. Got a good jaw. Like not many people were born to wear an astronaut suit and you just look like it fits yeah you know my my eyes go straight to the american flags but then i see in the periphery there the actual costume yeah uh yeah no i mean i guess i guess that uh if i had another calling that that that looks like it'd be it fit i mean it would fit you know it does fit i'm glad that that just happened yeah i never thought that we'd be able to show you that so that's pretty cool if i didn't think that was gonna work well it's i think they think that was an astronaut.

We'll send that to you. Yeah, we'll get that to it. That's not a problem. It's actually pretty cool. You know, he's not a golf dork all the time. Yeah, yeah. We appreciate it. Good luck these next couple weeks out there.

We know your competitor, like you said. And yeah, this was a big show for us, so we really appreciate it. Gentlemen, thank you. Appreciate it. Congratulations. Great job. Thank you, Jack. Congratulations.

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someone that I think we're all very familiar with your work, huge entourage fans on this show. We talked about it a lot, last time. It's your second time on the show, I believe. So Doug Allen, creator, writer, screenwriter. You do a couple different podcasts and you know, you're in the content game now. You're all about the Hollywood scene. So we're just chatting beforehand, but welcome to the show for the second time. Thanks for having me. What's, I'm curious just like, what's, how's Hollywood any different? Like, is Hollywood a lot different now? Do you feel like the Hollywood scene, like the,

You mean because of COVID or because of? Yeah, since COVID. Is it, is it, is it changing? things in the last year and a half? I mean, definitely, obviously, production slowed down and just, you know, the world of the influencer is really blown up out here. I mean, it's like you can't go anywhere without seeing, you know, some good-looking 20-year-old in a wife-beater with three guys followed him with a camera.

So it's just like, it's definitely the world is shifted from the movie star to like people that I'm like, who's that? You know, but it's good. I think we're going to get back to some normalcy soon, I hope. Yeah, I feel that. Like that's going on like in our world. You know, we're trying to be like the golf guys that do golf YouTube. And then these actual like professional YouTubers come in and and just do it totally differently.

And they're walking around with like now we got to be the guys. Like we're trying to walk around with selfie sticks. Like cameras attached to it. Like is this what we're fucking doing now? Sad. It's sad. Like, you know, I don't know if you guys have ever been out here, but my friend's restaurant, Craig's like every time I go in there, this is it's like the celebrity hotspot.

And every time I go in there, there's just. like four or five guys with like tank tops at dinner, you know, with like cameras following them everywhere. And, you know, and I look them up and they have like 40 million followers. It's really wild. You're like, Jesus. It'd be interesting. Like, I feel like, so I recently, I was telling Benny this before we started recording.

I recently in like November and December, I think I started entourage from the very beginning and just went through the whole thing, which probably the only time I've done that. since, you know, in real time, obviously, watching it. And I was thinking, like, I feel like you could, things have changed so much with everything, with culture, with PC culture, with the Me Too movement, that, like, you could almost do a whole entourage starting from now. And it would be wildly different and very fascinating

because it seems like things have to be different, have progressed a lot since when you guys were doing the show in the 2000s. Yeah, I mean, you know, things change, but they don't. People are people. And, you know, I've got, you know, at least once a month, I get someone a big influencer, a big athlete, a big musician who's like, you know, you've got to turn my show into a version of enthrush. And I'm actually working on one with Tieri, the, you know, French football star. And it's, again, it's different. But everybody thinks this, you know, PC culture, this and that, you can't do it. It's ridiculous. I mean, I think that anybody who's worried that they can't write comedy today is really just,

is not really looking at the world because things always evolve and there's always some type of movement for change. I mean, Andrew Dice Clay, who was on Entourage, was canceled 30 years ago. I mean, they, you know, Lenny Bruce before that. So this happens all the time. And then people do. They evolve. And, you know, there are things on entourage that I would change work.

on today and not that I apologize for it then, but, you know, words that I said as a kid that were in our mind harmless, you know, now come to realize that they affect some people. And it doesn't really, it doesn't really change it to me. So, you know, I think, you know, what entourage was, it was a real reflection of what Hollywood was in 2004 to 2013. And anything that I would write today would reflect what it is today, you know. Yeah, it's fine. It's crazy to me when when it gets criticism where people bitch about it because it's like, no, you weren't, like you weren't trying to paint what it's going to look like or what's going to be acceptable in 15 years.

You're like, we're just conveying and putting into an entertainment form what it's like now. It's also, you got to remember, it's like this loud minority of fucking losers who come out and start talking about shows from 10 years ago. As I say, it's my simple thing, you know, the New York Times female reporter said we were the smartest and best show on TV at the time, Obama's favorite show. And to go back and sort of like look at it in some weird light is just, it's embarrassing.

And the truth is I've looked at a lot of stuff from that time. And Autourage, which Walberg, you know, who was obviously inspired by, he used to tell me that it was tame compared to what his real life was in his 20s. And when I look at shows from that time, we are tame. The OC, which is, I love the OC, but the, It was a show about high school kids, far more sex in it and things like that and kind of a language for Fox that you wouldn't expect. But I think there's a loud minority that has this Twitter voice. To me, especially since we started this victory of the podcast of being a couple of guys from Outsrash.

And I see that the fans are still there that were there 10 years ago. And athletes were getting some great guys to come on the show. We had Sugar A. Leonard and Tommy Hernds come on the other day, you know, like to commemorate. their 40th anniversary of their fight. So I think that there's just, there's a voice that gets on Twitter and has some media presence that they can sit there and continue to write that things that we all used to like, and I'm not even talking about enthrash, aren't really good and they were, they were this.

But they also don't talk about, like, other stuff. They won't talk about like the Sopranos, which I love, but was like people murdering each other and stuff. They only talk about whether a couple of years. young guys were attracted to young women, which is just, as you guys all know, that's how men are. And it's not going to change, you know? Yeah. And we, so obviously, we spend all of our time on Twitter and that loud voice is very loud.

And they'll criticize us for doing, you know, whatever, some sort of video or whatever. But then we were just out at the Rider Cup at Whistling Straits in Wisconsin. And it's the real world. And everyone's just like, oh, it's great to see you, love everything you guys do, whatever. And it's like you do get trapped in that. And I think a lot of people do. They think that Twitter is 95% of it when it's really 5% or probably even less. Yeah.

And the media amplifies it, you know, or the again. And I'm, I lean liberal, but the liberal media amplifies all this nonsense and all this garbage. And yeah, there are certain people who deserve to get canceled. They're bad fucking people. But I think you guys know, and like me and my guys, you know, we would just try to entertain people. We didn't have any, and I think intent is important when you're looking at why you want to try to cancel somebody, you know, or do that. But I honestly don't worry about it

at all, and I really don't give a shit what any of them have to say about it. I'm proud of what we did, and I know what we're doing with the podcast now, which we curse less, you know, for anyone who was offended by that. But, you know, we were, I was writing about best friends, family, loyalty, and, you know, Sopranos was as well, but we don't murder anybody. So, you know, we can watch that. Yeah, it is. I mean, it's interesting, like you said, because it's not, the intent gets totally lost when people bitch about that shit.

They try to pick one thing and paint somebody as some horrific person when it's like, how do you not look at their entire body of work and everything that they've written and how they've shaped like these characters? And like, Vince is the most loyal, like, selfless guys helping all his friends. He wants to, like, improve the lives of his mom and everybody around him. And then they're like, oh, these are these horrific guys. So you're right. It's just kind of bullshit.

They really never do anything, but I had some interview. I don't remember who it was with, but it was like some nice interview where I thought they were complimenting me. It felt like this. And then all of a sudden they're like, so do you want to apologize for entourage? And I just react. I was like, go fuck yourself. How's that?

That's my apology to you. You know, I busted my ass for fucking 15 years to make it as good as I can. And all the executives at HBO, mostly female, read all the scripts and gave me their thoughts and comments. but at the end of the day, you know, it is what it is. And opinions are what, who cares, you know? I mean, I think obviously when it affects certain people who can't work, you know, the Jeopardy host or something like that,

who, you know, and I don't know if he deserved the job in the first place, but the fact that he was thrown out because he wrote some stupid shit on Twitter eight years ago is just, it's fucking crazy, you know? Yeah, I mean, the other side is like there's a lot of negative out there, but then the positive, I mean, to this podcast, it brought, you know, tons of good tons of laughs, just couldn't wait for Sunday night to, you know, watch the next episode. So, yeah, the small percentage that shouts and cries and says, oh, you affected me in this way or looking back 10 years ago and being like, oh, you shouldn't have done it.

It's like, you can't do that. That's insanity. Because the show was just an absolute joy for everybody. I mean, it was like the dream. Everybody wanted to chase it. You weren't, you know, a 12-year-old with a wife beater with a camera behind you. You know, you wanted to be the movie star. You wanted to chase his dream.

So it was just so cool to watch every episode was something new. Thank you. I appreciate it. I think we all know now we're doing podcasts and stuff. And Portnoy is really like at the front of it. He's he's just telling people, you can't cancel me, Joe Rogan. Like how are you going to cancel Joe Rogan? So I think that all these alternative outlets now are a really good thing to balance out.

And again, not to spread hate or shit like that, but to balance out the, the, the, the, the, idiocy of people going, oh, you can't say these words or this joke is not funny to us, you know? So, you know, especially with comedy, comedy is always, you try to push boundaries, you know, and it often helps move culture. And sometimes it doesn't. And then you go, that's not funny. But you don't have to talk about people like they're evil animals for things they've written

on a script. I always, like, people always ask me, like, you know, how could you write that stuff for Ari? I'm like, first of all, there's a real. Ari. He owns the fucking, he owns Hollywood, number one. Number two, he couldn't have been prouder of that character. He used to walk around and go, that's me. You know, that's me. And, and even my Ari was mellow next to the real Ari, you know, who owns the UFC and everything else in the world at this point. So, yeah, and Ari, like, people fucking love Ari. Like, I get, like, you can remove yourself from, right? Like, a lot of people love the bad guys in certain, like, awesome movies and shows, too. Like, they're,

they're great characters for they're being complex or they're weedy or whatever the fuck it is. You know what I got stuck? I got addicted to during this pandemic is maybe you guys have never watched it, but somehow I got on Master Chef and it's fucking great and addicting. But Gordon Ramsey, he's fucking Ari. He's screaming at these people. He's calling them morons. He's called him this.

And people love them. And, you know, it's just like there's a certain group of the world that gets to go, oh, I don't like this. So I'm going to tweet about it. then I'm going to get somebody to write an article. Like some, like some article came out last week. We haven't been on the air for 10 years. And, you know, I get Google alerts because I'm a schmuck and I like to torture myself.

I get some Google alert from like the, you know, some fucking local college paper where they're like, let's talk about the sexual harassment on entourage or something. I'm like, what kind of bored motherfucker is sitting around a decade after this show went off the air going, let's talk about how we can rip it apart and bring down all of the work that all of the people did we're on that show, you know. It's strange, really, is what it is. When you're writing a show, I've always found this super fascinating. Like, right now, I think the whole world is deep in Ted Lassow.

It's just a really good, like, uplifting, fun show. You watch the first season, and it's really about Jason Siddakis. He's the main character. And then they go to the second season, and now they're able to really dive deep into these other characters. When you're writing a show like Entourage, is that something that you're constantly adapting to? Like, oh, people are starting to like Ari more. we have to write more for him? Or is that something you've already known going into the show? I mean, for me, I didn't know anything. I'm a very, like, seat of my pants guy, and I had no

idea where the show was going. Once you find your strengths, I think you start to play to him. Any smart person does, and not even strengths, but I knew, like, you know, Piven and Kevin Dillon, you know, we're going to give me comedy gold anytime I went to them. So, sure, I would try to put them in any scenes, especially when there were serious scenes. Like, you know, Vince and Eric used to have the kind of dramatic scenes. I don't want to call them dramatic, but more dramatic. So any time I could get Dylan in there with his face to just give a laugh to it, it always, it always helped. But, you know, I think shows often do adapt, but other shows, I mean, I talked about this before, but when I was pitching entourage, my agent gave me the Bible to the wire. And it was like a 50, 100 page novel

that seemed to have known everything that was going to come before it happened. That's a type of genius that is not in my brain. So I'm kind of like, okay, where'd the last episode end? What would happen next? You know, so that's how I operate. Right. Super interesting, interesting because there is complete opposites. You think of like Game of Thrones and like how the fuck from episode, the last episode

to the first episode, like everything has to somehow connect. Like I've never been able to wrap my head around. Well, Game of Thrones at least. And I don't know how much they changed it in, but they had a book, you know, so they could follow some roadmaps. And I think the last season or the last two, they didn't have the book anymore. So, and I think you could feel the difference. But, you know, it's the more planned you can be, I think, the better. But I was never like that.

Yeah. And even like, you know, Lord of the Rings, like that motherfucker had like encyclopedias and shit. He had backs. He had everything before the books. I mean, I know like fish, but like he knew were all. that was going to go. So it's interesting just kind of, you know, different, different approaches. But it's funny. Those are like different levels of human beings. And that's why I say when someone goes back 10 years ago and wants to go, what kind of animal were you dug out? Listen, I woke up every

day. I try to be funny. If you didn't like it, you didn't fucking like it. But those guys, I mean, you know, the great ones of television, Aaron Sorkin, David Simon. I mean, that's a whole different fucking level than from what I'm doing. You know what I mean? So. Yeah, I'm curious what shows, what shows do you watch? What shows do you love? I mean, current shows. I mean, Succession isn't on right now, but it's coming back. I think he's genius.

What have I watched? White Lotus was amazing. Amazing. That was on a few weeks ago. But, you know, I love all the, like, the classics, you know, dramas, sopranos and Mad Men and Breaking Bad and stuff like that. comedies. That was a Seinfeld Cheers, Taxi, Curb, Mary Tyler Morrill and the family, you know, all the kind of classic stuff. But White Lotus was just the recent one I watched that I thought was just unbelievable,

you know? I wish it went on longer. Are you, uh, are you like critical as a writer yourself? Like, do you, is it, does it change the way that you watch yet? I don't think so. You know, I was like this as a kid. When I don't like something, I just don't like it. I don't analyze it like, oh, the structure is, I either, if I get into a show like White Lotus, I'm not thinking about anything except for how much I love these characters. And for me, it's always been the same.

If I'm watching something and I'm not thinking about the shots or who wrote this, then I'm in, you know? But if I'm not, I'm not. And I've definitely been, you know, known to be more critical. My friends are always like, God, you hate everything.

And I do hate a lot of shit. But when I see something great, I appreciate it. and I get jealous. Like, White Lotus is a show that I, like, wish I could have done, you know? Yeah, I think, I mean, we, I know Frankie and I loved White Lotus, and I think they're going to run it back for a season two, but they're going to do a different resort and different characters, which I think could be good, but, man, though, that first cast of characters

was so, so good. It's like a comedy, a drama, a dark comedy. I realize White Lotus was a very, very good show. Yeah, I mean, you know, look, Mike White is a brilliant writer. I actually watched during the pandemic Enlightenment, which he created also, which, which was Laura Durench, she won a Golden Globe, Emmy, whatever. But everybody's like,

oh, how can he do season two with a whole new thing? So yeah, it's a hard start for him. He's going to have to, you know, almost start over, but that's also exciting that he can just go into a whole other world and it may be completely different.

Who the hell knows what it's going to be about? But he's so talented and such a good writer that I'm excited to see whatever it is, you know? Casting, the casting process is always really interesting to me. Like, that's got to be, You just don't know what you're going to get, right? I mean, you don't, you know, I feel like that's got to be really,

I mean, it's, you know, and look, the show I did right after Entourage, which I had, you know, Michael Imperioli, Michael Rappaport, and Eddie Burns. And there was this one character that honestly was the best character on the page, and I just couldn't find him. I was on, you know, Jeremy Piven has a podcast that was on it the other day. We were talking about it. Like, I just couldn't find the right guy. So it's not that you don't know what you can get because I knew going in that I just

wasn't sure about somebody. But when I got my guys, I was looking for the guys that I grew up with. I was looking for guys that I went to high school with that I would be friends with. And I mean, we took six months. So it was a long time. Jeremy, I offered it to because I wanted him. But the four guys were all auditions. And obviously you don't know how an audience is going to react,

but I knew I had what I wanted, you know? So I wouldn't have changed anything. So is it like, I mean, even go in other stuff outside of entourage. Is that process? Like is it hard to, is it ever hard to change what you think that person needs to be or look like? Right. Like I relate it to when I read a book, you know, and then they change it into a movie. And like in your brain, you've got that fucking character.

That's who it is. And then when it turns into a movie, it's different. Like they've cast it differently or whatever. Is that like ever hard to get away from that? With autros, there were two things. It was inspired by Wahlberg, and we wanted Mark Wahlberg. And there just aren't a lot of fucking Mark Wahlberg. There's not a lot of guys who look like that, who were that kind of, you know, whatever you want to call alpha males that can act.

And when we found Adrian, it was just a totally different thing. And there were stories that I had from Mark's life that I knew wouldn't work, you know? I mean, you know, one story with Walberg is like this agent, which I ended up creating this. character anyway, this Josh Weinstein guy on Entourage, but in real life, he kept begging Mark to sign with him, fire Ari, fire Ari. And Mark told him, get in the ring with me. If you last around, I'll sign with you, I'll fire Ari. So he got around with this guy. He landed one punch. I think he broke his ribs. And that was the end of it. So I was obsessed. We're going to, we need that. We got to find Mark. And when we got Adrian, obviously that changes. But when I look

back at it, I think that Adrian brought something different to it that kind of felt like he needed people more than maybe a guy like Mark Wood on a TV show. So it was great. And the same thing with drama, Kevin Dillon, who, you know, he'll be upset because he's a well-built guy. But, you know, the real Johnny drama that's friends with Mark, it's like a 12-pack. And I had all these lines about his body and his 12-pack, but they still really work with Dylan because he sells it so well about how in shape he is and all of that. But so, you know, you adjust as they go. But, you know, when I found Dylan, I mean, after one line of his audition, I was like,

holy shit. We have gold here, you know, so. Yeah, how much is it, how much are you considering they're just the right, like, person from your vision to like their actual acting prowess and like ability? because we've debated on the show like I don't really know good acting or bad I just don't like yeah maybe occasionally I've seen bad acting and Frankie's like I can tell really good acting and I just don't think I can. I'm like acting is acting like I'm just I'm all in all the time they just acted and I just bought it. You can tell and when you think like with Kevin Dylan where people's like he's not acting that's just who he is

when you think someone is just being who they are they're really fucking good and it doesn't mean that they can go do and I'm not talking about Kevin Dylan because I do think Kevin can do anything. But like there's Daniel Day Lewis who can fucking be Abraham Lincoln that can be this. And then there's guys who are absolutely incredible across history, Carrie Grant, and, you know, that are playing some version of a regular kind of guy that you feel you know. But Kevin Dillon, who a lot of people say that, is he Johnny Drama? He's a great actor. He is coming in, and he's worked for 30 years because of that, but he's coming in and making distinct choices and, you know, finding the comedy and things and finding moments that you feel bad for him.

I mean, and I look at Dylan was really the heart of the show because he was the guy that you would watch and go, oh, fuck, man, that's my career. That's my life. Why do we have to go through this? I'd like it to be easy like Vince. So, but all my guys are really good. And you can't carry a show for 10 years. and being a shitty actor, you know? And people start to look at actors

when they don't all of a sudden get a show right after that. Like, why didn't they? But, you know, Kevin Dillon was working for 30 years before Entourage. And the day he auditioned, I said he's going to win an Emmy. He was nominated for two. He lost both. But, I mean, you know, there's a million things he could have done. He could have been Joey on friends also.

You know what I mean? Like, and it would have worked. But, you know, it's just a matter of getting the right part at the right time. Yeah, he's, he was phenomenal. And I think he was for everybody, if you don't love that character, you're just an asshole. You really are.

He's just like, he's so relatable. He's so like, he's trying to be macho, but then he's also like, can I, can I get that, Vince?

He's just like, he's fucking fantastic. Right. And isn't there, like, isn't there an element if, if, say,

an actor doesn't get a job right after, they do a great show like that, that they played the character so well that people just sort of see them as that. And that's, that's why they, I mean, there's a bunch of reasons, I'm sure, but that might be one of the reasons. For sure, you know, or, you know, Dylan had a show right after because people thought he was a star and the show didn't work.

It has nothing to do with him. There's so many elements that go into his show. But if that show would have worked, all of a sudden, he's, you know, you start to forget about Entourage and he's on some new hit show. So, right. I mean, there's a million examples of it. Piven also. I mean, Piven had done 40 movies before Entourage and all of a sudden, he won three Emmys in a row, you know? Like that is raref.

And, you know, people will still go, oh, is he just being himself? No, he's not himself and he wasn't himself in old school. You know, he's finding ways to make that, you know, character believable. Again, it's not the same thing as, you know, and I do think Piven is that good. But, I mean, what, you know, what some of those actors can do, which is completely evaporate into roles. And I, you know, Philip Seymour Hoffman's, Daniel Day Lewis's of the world, you know, that's all. That's like I say with, you know, Aaron Sorkins and David Simons, there's levels, you know. I think I could speak for these guys, but whenever I am watching a show, whether it's

Autourage or Sopranos or even the Jordan documentary, whenever you saw one of these guys on the golf course, it was always such a fun, like thing to see, right? Like you saw like, he and all these guys on the course. And I always thought that was such a cool thing to just watch them, like either swing a golf club or and even in Curb Your Enthusiasm. I love those scenes where Larry is on the golf course. How much of golf was always in your guys, like day to day? Did you guys play a lot when you were shooting or writing?

Was that a big part of your guys' life? Yeah, especially, you know, there was a writer's strike during entourage. So we were down. And I was not a golfer growing up. So I got into it during the writer's strike. And Kevin Dylan and I were playing a lot during that strike. But we always talk about it. It really is like golf is probably the most sport where like dudes want to fucking

argue about like who's better at a sport that neither of them is really good at. You know what I mean? And again, not to say that Dylan's not good because he'll fucking kill me. He is good. You know, but we played out. We were just in Hawaii. So we played in Hawaii. I have not swung a club in like three years. And I think we're going to go play Sunday as well. And I'm going to start to try to get back into it. But, you know, it's, it's the one sport where you can really play the sport and have your personalities really, you know, come to life as well because you're not distracted, you know, as much while you're driving in the car or walk in the course or whatever it is. So we talk a lot of golf. And, you know, one of our first experiences, I think we talked about

last time was when we played with Wayne Gretzky. And that still comes up all the time because, you know, Connolly hold this ball from like 130 yards out. I mean, with Wayne Gretzky standing on the fucking green, it was, you know, it's something that will never, none of us will ever forget. I wish it was me and not Connolly that hit the ball. But, you know, It's one of those sports that, you know, I play this game, Pickleball now, which I get into every podcast that I talk about. But, you know, it's such an amazing game. And, like, you can do things on a pickleball court, like on a golf course.

Like, there's times when you're like, I'm as good as fucking Phil Mickelson. Look at that shot I just hit, you know. And then you realize five minutes later, you're completely uncoordinated and you chunk the ball into the fucking rough. So, you know, that's why it's such a fun sport and such a good. for whoever you're with. So we do talk about it a lot. Yeah. What was the scene in Hawaii like?

I mean, not touching a club for three years. That's got to be a nerve-wracking experience. I don't care who you're with or what you're doing. You get those nerves on the first tee, especially at a resort course like that. Like, were you pumped? It's really nerve-wracking with Conley and Dylan standing over you.

And, you know, we actually, you know what we do this podcast. We do Victory, the podcast with Dylan and Connolly. We talk about all of this stuff. But, yeah, I mean, like they pretended like, they were being supportive. Okay, get ready. But, you know, I could feel it in my head. I'm like, I got to.

Like, I got to make good contact. I got to put this ball straight. So, but we're going to go back out there Sunday. And I expect an improvement from what I did in Hawaii. So golf's crazy in that, like, Tiger Woods still talks about how he's been, he's nervous on the first tee every time he tees it up. And he's Tiger Woods. So it's like, now you're thinking about, you know, you haven't played in years and you're

standing there and you know these guys are ready to roast you. or like we're on a it's just a it's crazy how nervous you get in golf versus pretty much anything else that you do in the light yeah and also you know like golf you know you want to get to where your muscle memory is where you're doing all the things but i was right back where you know i i had a great teacher george gakis like i went to took some lessons with him and you know so i haven't seen george in four years and i was sitting on this course on the first tea i got you hear George going, okay, make sure you turn, head down, this and that. And I'm like, get these thoughts out of your head.

You don't have fucking hit a golf ball. So I was thinking about so many thoughts with Dylan standing over me, again, acting like he's very supportive and Connolly, which they'll both say they were. But I was very stressed out. And of course, like my first legitimately three or four years since I swamined club, my first shot, like, you know, would have killed someone standing to the left of me. You know what I mean? That's how awful it was.

So that's an infuriating game. Absolutely infuriating. But yeah, Frankie's right. When it does pop up, it's just, it's, it's cool too because everybody does, right? Like everybody, whether you're rich, whether you're a movie star, whether you're a normal person that goes out and plays your, your muni, your public muni on the weekends. Like everybody can kind of play golf and have those same types of matches. Like caddies that we have when we go places, they'll tell endless stories about guys coming out there and playing $1,000 a hole. And they're like winning holes with double bogeys.

It's just like people suck at this game and everybody plays it really intensely and want to play well and want to get better and we all fucking are horrible at it. And that's what's the funniest. When people who suck get so angry about it, you know what I mean? Like you're not good. There's no reason to get that angry about it. But you do, you feel depressed when you like when you go out there and you're like, I'm fucking athletic. What the fuck is wrong with me? Why can't I hit this goddamn stupid ball that's sitting in the grass, you know?

Well, the second you show any glimpse of success in golf, whether it's a good drive or an iron shot onto a green or you make a long putt, you then have ruined the rest of golf or the rest of eternity for yourself because you know you have the ability to do it. So every time you don't then do it, you're frustrated. It's just a constant frustration over and over and over. It's getting nervous for Sunday ever. Yeah, there you go.

But you know you can do it, so you should have some sort of, you know, positive attitude. Exactly. It's a psychotic torture chamber that we put ourselves through for like five hours. You know you can do it, but you can also know you can chunk one, blade one, spray one, right? So it's just the constant, oh, I have no idea what's going to happen when I hit this damn golf ball. And that's what's amazing about the pros. I mean, every time, you know, to be told they're awful when they're, you know, they're four or five over, like, oh, they're having an awful. It's horrible.

It's amazing to be that consistent at that, you know, and be able to keep that focus that much. All right, Doug, I'm going to check out your guys' podcasts. I know Frankie's listened to a few episodes. He's got really into it because I just get, I mean, every time we get talking about it, I get fired up. I love to hear the behind the scenes about Dylan and the characters and the difference and what was going on behind the scenes. Like, I got to get more into that.

Yeah, really check it out. And we talk about so much more than Autrage. And I think you really get to know us as guys and realize that we are friends of 20 years. And, you know, it's been a lot of fun. And now we're doing live shows. Like we, you know, we sold out the Bray Improv, you know, a few weeks ago. Now we're going to Long Island, which we better sell that out or we're going to be humiliated because that's our hometown. But, you know, it's been, it's been wild the response to it.

It's been very cool. So it's awesome. Victor's podcast. Check it out. Shout out JFK High School right there. I'm actually looking at like houses in the Merrick area. And we're like, my girlfriend's like, oh, JFK is such a good school. So we may be moving there.

Wow. I mean, I was just there a few weeks ago. And my, I am, I'm hanging in the, the, the, FK Hall of Fame. You can see me hanging over a locker on one of the hallways. But Merrick is a great place in my childhood. Like, all I wanted for my kids was to recreate my childhood, which did not happen in Los Angeles, unfortunately.

But Merrick's a great, great place. Yeah, I grew up in East Meadow, so right there. I mean, right down the box. Nice. Yeah, no, looking forward. I didn't know you guys are coming to Long Island. So maybe I'll come check that out. Yeah, you need to come November 20th at the Paramount and Huntington.

in Huntington. Awesome. Yeah. Unfortunately, Connolly set this up the same night the Islanders opened their new arena, which was genius idea. Oh, I won't be. I will not be coming. I mean, I can't.

I can't miss the opening of UBS, but I hope you guys have a great show. What's so fucked? What's so fuck? Of course Connolly would do that. Where the fuck was Connolly during this all-time run? I was waiting for him to show up to the Coliseum. I know the pandemic and traveling, but come on, Kevin. He should have been sitting there right by a B.

I mean, that was our year. He was having a baby. Believe me, he wanted to be there, you know. I knew there was something. And we're coming back this year. It's going to be a good year this year. I got good feeling. Awesome.

Awesome. Well, make sure you say hi to the guys for us. We'll have to do this again. We'll get a little, you know, we'll keep getting into it because, like I said, we all are obviously huge fans of the show, huge fans, everything you've done. I'm going to start listening. I'm on a lot of planes. I got a lot of flights.

I promise you going to enjoy it. So thank you. I appreciate it. And guys, good to seeing you. We'll talk soon. Thank you, Doug. Take it easy, guys.