Founder's Story - Breaking the Mold: Reimagining Entrepreneurship with Igor Vainshtein, Creator of the Entrepreneurpoly Board Game | S2 Ep. 179

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Igor Vainshtein returns to share his journey from early entrepreneurial struggles to major successes. From overcoming near-bankruptcy to executing a strategic exit, Igor offers deep insights on building resilient businesses and pivoting to new ventures with purpose. Igor Vainshtein – Best-selling author, inventor of the Entrepreneurpoly Board Game, founder of 24/7 Golf (sold to GOLFTEC), and creator of GolfTrak.App.1. The Strategic ExitExit Story:Sold his company to a public company (GOLFTEC) in a deal that shared both risk and reward.Discussed how a strategic acquisition can leverage a company’s value chain over traditional EBITDA metrics.Learnings:The reality of most exits involves a transition period—not just a simple “get the check and move on” scenario.Emphasis on working closely with partners to grow both parties' success.2. Overcoming Personal BarriersImposter Syndrome:The exit helped break down long-held self-doubt, enabling Igor to finally launch his board game and publish his book.Lessons Learned:Personal growth often follows facing and overcoming significant business and personal challenges.3. Building on ExperienceFrom Board Games to Books:Igor revisited his old projects, like the Entrepreneurpoly Board Game, updating them to reflect his current insights.Introduced his upcoming book, Agile Manifestation, as a follow-up to his first book, Practical Manifestation.Book Focus:Combines principles from agile methodology with personal development.Provides a practical, step-by-step guide to achieving your dreams by focusing on the inputs rather than just the outcomes.4. Entrepreneurship & the Power of InputsMindset Shift:Transitioned from an obsession with end results (e.g., becoming a billionaire by a certain age) to a focus on the daily habits and inputs that build sustainable success.Key Takeaway:Embracing the process and the daily grind is crucial; success is built step by step, much like the game of golf.5. The Role of Golf as a ConnectorNetworking & Relationships:Golf has played a pivotal role in forging important business relationships.Shared personal anecdotes of meeting industry leaders and influential figures over a round of golf.6. Advice for EntrepreneursKeep Pushing Forward:Persistence is essential—even when the odds are against you.Focus on what you can control (the inputs) and let the outcomes follow.Embrace Failure:Failure is part of the journey and a necessary stepping stone toward ultimate success.Our Sponsors:* Check out CoinFlip and use my code FOUNDERS for a great deal: https://coinflip.tech* Check out Indeed: https://indeed.com/FOUNDERSSTORY* Check out Kinsta: https://kinsta.com* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: https://www.rosettastone.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates, so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data worldwide, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed, and listeners of this show will get a $100 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash podkatzca. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Founders Story. Today we have a special guest who has been on this show, it might have been three years ago now, but Igor Vonstein.

Igor, I want to say it was like three years ago when we first met, maybe even four at this point. I'm not sure, but you are a bestselling author, inventor of an entrepreneurship board game, which is behind you. You're the founder of 24-7 Golf which you sold to Golf Tech. I want to find out all about that and I know you have the Golf Track app. You've got a book coming out, a TEDx. I mean you got a lot of things going on in your world and you and I haven't spoken a while so why don't we just kick it off with you have this exit now to Golf Tech, and then what?

So let's start with there, and then let's move forward to the game, everything else you got going on. Yeah, no, great. Great to see you again. It's been over three years, because I remember it was in LA at this conference, right? This, it was Bitcoin and all of that, right?

And that's where I met Matt, and we've stayed friends, so thanks for, uh, through Bitcoin and all of that, right. And that's where I met Matt and we've stayed friends. So thanks for that connection. You know, he's been a good friend as well. Um, but yeah, a lot of love. Wow. A lot has changed since, uh, since that day. So, um, yeah, that was before the exit. So I think, um, what happened was, you know, I was, uh, and I, I can't quite place exactly when there was on that journey, but when I first moved to the U S obviously I was trying to scale the business and, uh, you know, like halfway through that first year of, you know, my, and I called my, my world expansion, the domination plan, you know, the, the, you know, the evil plan.

Um, like halfway through that, I nearly went in bankrupt again. Um, I had this, I remember this July 21 or something like that. I had like no revenue for the month and I'm like, Oh my God, I had this, I remember this July 21 or somewhere in there, like I had like no revenue for the month. And I'm like, Oh my God, I'm screwed. And I'm just like, I just got, you know, you have nothing else to do, right? And just keep fighting and fighting. I turned it around and six months later, I sold the company, right?

To a public company, Golfsticks owned by a Japanese listed company called GDO, amazing company, both amazing companies, you know, they acquired Skytrak, which has been a really, you know, a huge name in the golf business. And so then, because I was kind of pitching them to be like a reseller for my products, you know, do you remember I brought the golf simulator to that conference? We put it out the room at the back. So that like I was pitching for them to sell that thing, those products to their customers. And then they kind of called me and said, hey, you know, instead of selling it, you know, your stuff, we just make it our stuff and buy you. And you know, went through a whole thing and, and in the end, we came to a great deal, which,

you know, left a lot of risk on the table. We shared the risk and the upside. So we, you know, we came to a deal where basically we could both share in the, in the growth of the business, which it has grown, I don't know, 10, 15x when I sold it, because of the name, the brand, the marketing power, the resources, the team, et cetera. So it's been a hell of a journey. And that kind of triggered all these other things that happened after. And one of the main things psychologically that's happened, uh, after that is, is, you know, the, the, the, uh, kind of the, the veil of the imposter syndrome came down a bit. And all these things I had in me for years before, like the board game, I actually wrote that or like invented the first version of that 2007, 2008.

2007, 2008. We're just sat on the shelf because I was like, who wants to know what I have to say when, you know, I'm some loser out the back, back in the room. And, um, and so that was an interesting transition. Um, and that, that first book that's that one up there as well, you know, again, wrote that in 2007, never published it. Just had all these imposter syndrome stuff built up in me. And that eggs to kind of trigger this outflow of stuff. And that's been really amazing ever since.

So that's the exit. So I'm still there. I'm still helping grow the business, which is doing really well. We had like a three to four year deal to kind of stay on and help. But I also have other things I'm doing. And yeah, just being a typical entrepreneur

with attention span of a kitten. Let's go to the exit real quick. We had a recent guest talking about their advice around the learnings that they had when they were exiting their business and the ups and downs of the process. You have a different spin than they have because you had more of a partnership and a of the process. You have a different spin than they have because you had more of a partnership

and a longer stay on. And you're saying you were enjoying the risks together and the rewards as well. Do you have any learnings of that process for others who might be looking at an exit and maybe a similar situation? Absolutely. Yeah, it comes up a lot. Like I find is a lot of people have an idea of an exit where you get a check, you sail off into the sunset, they get the keys, buying a house, right? You

move out, they move in, that's it, right? What I found, and my involvement with Entrepreneurs Organization has been a huge help in kind of figuring out how these things work. That's generally not how it works. That works in a small percentage of time, but most of the time, there is some kind of handover period. And the great benefit of the type of exit I had, which is a strategic sale, so I sold, actually, let me give you a story as an example of kind of how I wanted to sell and how I ended up selling. So, I started the Masters of Entrepreneurship and Innovation in Melbourne at Swingwood University back, got there some years ago.

But the guy that ran it, the lecturer, the head of the school, he is big claim to fame. He sold this company to like Oracle for $12 million, right back, I don't know, 25, 30 years ago. Interestingly enough, he was losing $2 million a year when he sold it for $12 million. And everyone's asked, how'd you do that? And his whole theory was, well, Oracle could take his company that was losing $2 million, injected into all of their customers and make $100 million in the first year. And that's exactly what happened. So they 10x their money in like the first year, right? Because there was a strategic acquisition, it it was a strategic play and that's what I you know Ultimately my dream was to do something similar and that's kind of what happened where they saw what I had which was a small business

But I had you know, I had manufacturing I had I had the value chain, right? And so that veteran was valuable to all of their customers And so when you combine those two you go Well their resources their name the brand their customers with my value chain all all of a sudden, it doesn't matter what your EBITDA is, right? What matters is how much can they make with your product selling to their customers? And then you go, well, if they make this, can I, you know, if I sell it at say 20% of that value, that means as soon as they buy me, they five X their money and If I had that number that the one-fifth of the value that I'm really happy because I have a great exit Hey all the power right and that's gonna what what I went through where they were able to just push that and we

shared in the success and so it ended up being a Great deal for both of us because they didn't have the risk up front right they didn't have to write a massive check up front both of us because they didn't have the risk upfront, right? They didn't have to write a massive check upfront. Um, and I also kind of didn't have a limit to what I could advocate for because, Hey, you know, the more they sell, the better I do, I do, and the better they do and all of that. But also they get a bigger slice of the pie than I do, but that's fair because they're putting in the resources to grow that.

Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I love that. The strategic sale, finding a company, you work with the company with the thought in your back, your head that maybe I could exit to a company who who's basically, you know, a vendor partner, however you want to define it. And then you might be able to get more for it because it's not based on,

you know, a person, an X times EBITDA. And even if your company's losing money, then obviously you're like in a times EBITDA and even if your company's losing money then obviously you're like in a negative EBITDA but this is this is great I think that's amazing so you've got through that you're now like okay what's next in my life I don't want to become one of those lost entrepreneurs after they exit and then they don't know what they're doing we all have ADHD so you know I love the, we're looking for that shiny thing,

but you got this, you look back in your history and you see this game and you pull that out and you're like, okay, I'm gonna launch this game. Then what? Well, so the game was one of them. It actually kind of became, it's part of a bigger foundational kind of process that I'm going through.

And I was very lucky to, again, golf is just such a great connector. If you remember, at that conference in LA, we were walking out of the room and he saw my top with my bra. And he just literally walked up to me and said, I love golf. And I said, me too.

And that's how the friendship started. And what I love about that is golf is such a great connector. And so one of these other moments that I had was I met a great entrepreneur. You may have heard Kevin Harrington, right? The first shark on the shark tank. You know, what a name in the industry. And we met over golf, you know, and we've become friends. And he's actually written the preface to my second book.

But besides, which is coming at the end of this month, but besides that, he told me the story of how he has built all these amazing businesses, you know, the late night shopping network that he basically invented, you know, the whole as seen on TV thing. But, you know, he told me so he was having lunch with Richard Branson. And Branson says to him, everyone knows all these entrepreneurs you built up, but no one knows your name. And he said, go write some books, you know, get your brand out there. You never know what's going to happen. And so he followed that advice. And one day he got approached by the producer of this new show called the sharp tank. And the rest is history. And so he was sharing the story with me and, and I'm like, you know what,

I was kind of on the fence about the whole personal branding and obviously, you know, I got to thank you for that as well, because you really, you know, encouraged me to do that back three years ago. And I kind of, you know, started, but you know, it wasn't, I wasn't ready. You know, I just, I had too many, too many demons. Um, and you know, so we did a little bit of work, but then I kind of, you know, went on a different direction. And now that conversation kind of pulled me back to that conversation you and I had. And I was like, you know what, I feel I'm ready for this. And so I looked at what I had and I already had this, I had a book already written and I had a game already written.

So the book I basically I repackaged, you know, published that. The game I looked at, I'm like, you know what, it doesn't reflect who I am today. It doesn't reflect the lessons I've learned. And so I went and I found as great entrepreneurs, we've got to find the right people around us. I found this absolute genius in, in Bangkok, this, this young, young man, Jackie, he's got a name that no one can pronounce. So we just call him Jackie.

Um, you know, you can see him on my website, a little profile of him, but he, he's, he's side hustle is designing board games and he's so passionate about it. Right. And he's a lecturer at university for game theory, but he's side hustle as this. And so I hired him and we spent a year rebuilding the game, redesigning it. And then the main thing behind the game was, you know,

I was inspired by Robby Kiyosaki's Cashflow 101, which I used to play 25 years ago. And it changed my life. And it allowed me to go on this journey of, you know, investing and that's how I bought all these properties I had, which I lost. That's a different story. And I want it to be that catalyst for the 580 million entrepreneurs that are out there in the world.

I wanted to take all the lessons I learned, the people that I know, the books that I've read and make it a visceral gamified low risk experience. How do you go through the process of being punched in the face on a daily basis, being an entrepreneur, without the risk, without losing the kind of money I've lost millions multiple times. And I dusted it off and I put it together and I put it out to the world. And one of the main things I'm doing with it is actually donating it. I'm donating to all these non-for-profits and schools because these are the lessons, you know, that's what I have to share with the world now. And, and that's kind of how it came about. If that makes sense.

It doesn't matter how successful someone has become. If they, everyone, I think would tell me, at least they have here that you have to get dragged through the mud. It's a part of the process. But I think that's where either you quit and you move on to something else or you keep going. And that might be the differentiating factor between entrepreneurs and maybe non-entrepreneurs. I'm not sure how you would define that,

but how do you have the mental fortitude to keep going? What is it in your mind? Is it just that entrepreneurs are crazy or is there something else in there? Because most people, we had another guest on that was saying basically that you're doing something that has, you know that one out of every ten are successful or whatever you know whatever the rate is so you know like okay the first year fifty percent fail year two seventy five percent fail you know year by year five it's like ninety percent I'm making these numbers up but you know you get the idea like you know upfront it's probably gonna be a failure that you

probably your chances are you're gonna fail but yet you continue doing it over and over again. What is that? That's a great question. And I recently, I feel like I've really kind of cracked it, at least for me. And this is one of the, like one of the messages I share in my keynotes

about that exact concept, what you just asked, like how do you keep going? Cause that really applies, not just to entrepreneurship, it applies to whether you're in a relationship, whether you're in a career, whether you're just starting a career, whether you're at the top of the ladder, whatever it is. This is what I learned about myself. I have this, as I told you, especially once I had the exit, I had this time and moment

to really reflect on the last 25 years, this overnight success that took 25 years to make. Because I started my business when I was 17. And to me, the big shift came when I stopped focusing on the outcome. Like I wanted to be, you know, when I was 20, I wanted to be a billionaire by 30. You know, when I was 30, I wanted to be a billionaire by 40. It's like none of those things happened. I was so focused on the outcome. As I got through the process, I got older, as I had kids, as I had a family, and I matured and kind of my risk profile changed, the thing that really changed in my outlook is my obsession with the inputs. So I talk about, you know, I was so obsessed with the outputs and it was, however, I could

get to that output. But then the shift happened to me, in me, where I started focusing on the inputs. I started building the habits. I wasn't doing this consciously. It's just in reflection. I saw that what I was doing and I could actually pick up on these cues where I got to a point in life where I love what I do so much that I can't imagine doing something else. And that is the key to that crazy that entrepreneurs have. We get this passion, this love for what we do so much that we'd rather do that than anything else, even if it's going to fail, even if it's going to give us potential suffering, but there's always that one in

a million chance that you're going to hit it out of the park. And that keeps us going. Again, like the golf, like you hit that one shot that always keeps you coming back, even if you had a horrible round, there'll be one shot that round that will just keep you coming back. And entrepreneurship is a little bit like that, but it's the focus on inputs. It's creating those, making those inputs your habits.

When you go in day in, day out, and you like, you know what, the outcomes will take care of themselves. If I focus on building a great company, building a great product, a great service, hiring the best people, building the best culture, and you focus on those little steps that make those things happen, that's what creates that step after step. I think success, even if that success, I've always said this, I knew that I would succeed. I just did that. I just knew. Like I don't know how. I just knew. What I didn't know was when. I love learning a few words before traveling. It's opened

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Get started for free today. And that question is so frustrating, right? When? Because you think it might be tomorrow. It might be a year from now. And then it's like 10 years go by and you're like, should I give up on this? Like, right? When? Because you think it might be tomorrow, it might be a year from now, and then it's like 10 years go by and you're like, should I give up on this? Like am I crazy? Am I like, you know, live in a delusional world where I think I'm going to succeed,

but the reality is I'm not. And I think that if I look at all the entrepreneurs I know, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, you know, you've met so many, you've spoken to so many. You know, do people realize that if you take care of the process, if you build the best you can build, that you probably nothing's ever guaranteed in life, but your probability of success is high. The only thing you don't know is when. I like that. It's not the it's not it's it's the when it's the when it might be also that that's a good one where you stop saying that you're going to be a billionaire by x time that I might not that

might hold you back you might be disappointed. Yeah, the inputs those are really good takeaways. Igor I appreciate that. I went to to dive into your book, your next book. Can you share what it is? And then how is the process, because I'm currently, we're over a year into writing a book, but we went the traditional publisher route and it's a very long and painstaking process

and sometimes I wanna give up. But how has the process been for you and what is this new book about? So the new book is called, it's kind of sickening the serious. So the first one that the time is called Practical Manifestation. And it's really so that book was about how do you as a project manager, which is what I was, you know, running IT projects. And then I watched The Secret. And you know, all this manifestation thing was was very popular, the self-help section,

but it frustrated me because it was too much. You sit on the couch and imagine you're steering a dream car. That doesn't put a dream car in your driveway. I wanted to take a project manager approach to that. The second book is in the series. It's called Agile Manifestation. In that time between those two books, 15 years have passed, I really embraced the agile methodology. I used it in my app development for my app.

I've used it in multiple projects. All these great companies, Spotify, Amazon, SpaceX, Tesla, they all use agile methodology to create the most amazing technologies in the world. I look at people who want to achieve amazing things in their life, they put their things on the vision board, and then they manifest whatever that means. And I wanted to take that and go, listen, these companies achieve these crazy things. Why don't you just take what works. You may even be using it in your day-to-day job, but you're not using it at home.

So why not? So I wanted to take that and write it into a methodology of how did you achieve the things you dream about? In a way that a company would achieve things that they dream about, you know There's there's a moment when everyone said it's impossible to land a rocket back on earth Right and they went about and they did it there was also, you know impossible to stream readers of the internet there's all these impossibles that become possible and so the book is really a very practical way of how to use this proven methodology in a way

to achieve your dreams, whatever they may be, in a practical way, in a step-by-step way, kind of reverse engineering those dreams versus just hoping that it happens. Hope is not a strategy. And so that's my second book. Hope is not a strategy. Now, that sounds amazing. You. Hope is not a strategy. No that that sounds amazing

You have Kevin Harrington in there. I mean I I can't wait to read this Thank you for sharing all the updates. I mean we could go for another 30 minutes here Always great chatting you the Igor. I'm super happy for you That you got you did it right like you did it you did what you've been dreaming about for 25 years and now you're giving back you're helping others you know it's like your legacy of creation things and people are gonna always remember how how you made them feel when they do your when they read your book or when they play the game and then you're they're gonna think in 20,

can you imagine that 25 years, just like you with Robert Salty's game, they're gonna be like, I remember when I played Igor's game and how that changed my life. But really appreciate you coming back today. If you wanna find out more information about you, they wanna get in touch, how can they do so? So the best way is I'm very active on LinkedIn.

So follow me on LinkedIn. Um, you'll probably have my name, which is a mouthful in the show notes, uh, or just Igor of Einstein.com. Um, you could find a link for about the game, the, uh, the books on my personal website, but yeah, please reach out. I'm always, uh, I love talking to entrepreneurs. I love the stories that are out there. Um, I love sharing those stories.

I love hearing those stories. Uh, so yeah, please, you know, to your audience, just reach out and follow me on my team. Igor always appreciate chatting with you. Great to update, uh, even though it's been a few years and I can't wait for the game and the book and everything to come out. Uh, but thank you so much for joining us today and founder story. and founder story. Thanks. sites. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant

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Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed, and listeners of this show will get a $100 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash podkatzca. Just go to indeed.com slash podkatzca right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Indeed is all you need.