Founder's Story - Building an empire on Amazon | Ep. 50 with Serial Entrepreneur Jin Chon

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

Jin Chon is a Co-Founder of River Source Logistics in Los Angeles, CA an Amazon seller focused 3PL. River Source Logistics is currently the largest Amazon seller focused 3PL. Along with her brother Kevin, they have grown an 8 figure Amazon business bootstrapped from retail arbitrage. Jin has a passion for helping new sellers learn the ins and outs of FBA and Amazon in general. She has traveled extensively on sourcing trips into China and India, meeting with factories, and has intimate knowledge of manufacturing, branding, product sourcing, and the supply chain process. For more info on guests and future episodes visit KateHancock.com --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ibhshow/supportOur Sponsors:* Check out PrizePicks and use my code FOUNDERS for a great deal: www.prizepicks.com* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: www.rosettastone.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to Inspired by Her, the podcast that will give you the inspiration, motivation and tips for success from some of the top executives, CEOs and influencers from around the globe. With your host, serial entrepreneur and named one of the most influential Filipina in the world, Kate Hancock. Hi, everyone. This is Kate. And today I have here Jin Chun. Hi Jin. Hi Kate. Hi everyone. Hi, so Jin is my foreign mate through EO and she's the co-founder of River Source Logistics in LA. It's an Amazon seller focused 3PL. So River Source Logistics is currently the largest Amazon seller focused 3PL. So River Source Logistics is currently the largest Amazon seller focus 3PL. I really know this space because this is my first business. So I can't wait to really get to know Jin more. And so Jin, welcome. Thanks so much for having me, Kate. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah. Okay, so Jun, how did you come up with the name River Source? What was the story behind it?

Right. So when we decided to officially open a Amazon-focused 3PL, we kind of thought about Amazon as being the river, right? The largest river in the world. And so like we turned back to that. And so we're the source for that river. So that's how River Source came about. That's actually well thought. Name company, now I know. Now, Jen, can you tell me where did you grow up?

I grew up in Los Angeles. So I'm an LA native. I love my city. I love my town. It's my favorite place in the world. Wow. And can you tell me your best memory of, I mean, of and well what was the worst um I think best memory is just my parents worked a lot and so I was the oldest I have a younger

brother and then we had cousins who lived around the corner from us so really close in our neighborhood and during the summers I was the oldest so they would give me money, and then I would watch all of us, kind of. So we would, like, ride our bikes and rollerblade around the neighborhood. We would go get ice cream at Rite Aid, just kind of run around all summer in the whole neighborhood. So that's probably my favorite childhood memory um and then in terms of like my worst um gosh it's really hard because I don't think I remember a lot of horrible things during childhood um I do remember one okay so uh I had gone on a trip um in middle school I don't even remember where it was, but it was like an overnight trip.

And my mom totally forgot to pick me up. And I was so upset. But looking back, to give credit to my mom, I mean, she was also an entrepreneur. So she was running a business and she must have been so exhausted. And probably just one of those things that slipped her mind. I'm sure I'll forget my kids someday too. But yeah, she totally forgot to pick me up. And I remember being like waiting and waiting and waiting and everyone's parents came and picked them up and I'm just standing there with this teacher and I'm like, I don't know where my mom is.

Oh my God. You know what? That actually happened to me. I forgot my son so many times. I think it probably happens to everyone, every mom, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. Now, can you tell me, can you tell me what was your parents' business? So my parents had a domestic clothing manufacturing company. So they made clothing for companies like Nordstrom's, Urban Outfitters, like, yeah, bigger companies. So they made clothing for companies like Nordstrom's, Urban Outfitters, like, yeah, bigger companies. So they would do designs and then they would private label for those companies. And they also did importing. I remember in the 90s, them having to go to China and take care of production issues. So it wasn't like today where you could just Zoom

or some sort of video conference and figure out stuff that's going wrong. Like they would have to fly out to China and they would tell us these stories of riding in a car for just hours and hours and hours to get to the factory. And yeah, they were kind of pioneers, I guess, in that, in that way. Wow. So as a, did you, were you involved a little bit when you were a kid? Were you helping your parents or like, did you let you tell me? Yeah. So I remember being little. So my mom started off with her own kind of clothing stores and then she transitioned into manufacturing. And when I was little, I remember being at her store during the summers and stuff and having to tag the clothing in the back office we would go with her when she was buying for the store and then when she was in clothing manufacturing during like summers and

stuff we would work there and so you would cut the little threads like finishing work on the clothing when I got a little bit older, she taught me how to do trim buying. So I would buy all the zippers and buttons and any sort of trim that needed to go on to clothing. So I learned a lot about like calculating and buying that stuff and not overbuying, but buying a little bit enough. And I also learned sales in her showroom. So we were, my brother and I were actually super involved in her business. And then my brother, right after college, went to work in the family business. Wow. So was that the inspiration behind your company, your brother's company?

So to back up a little bit, I actually was a lawyer. So I was practicing law. Right. And in 2010, I had a great job, great, like everything. I mean, everything that a lawyer could ask for, everything was going really well, but I realized like I wasn't really feeling fulfilled. And at the time my brother was working with my parents and my parents were kind of getting ready to retire. And he said, why don't you come back to the family business? We'll start an e-commerce business and take it from there. And so I quit my lawyer job and I went to do that. And so we started e-commerce clothing company and it was fun. It was really challenging, really hard. Um, and we got a call from some guy at Amazon and he said, Hey, we would love for you to sell your stuff, your clothing line on Amazon. And I

said, Oh, I'm very busy. Please don't bother me. Um, but thank God he was really persistent. And he said, I will do everything for you if you just upload, you know, the clothing. And this is when Amazon was really trying to expand their fashion offerings on the platform. And so we did, I said, I'm giving you, you know, like 10 or 15 SKUs. And he put them up. And the next day, I'm starting to get notifications on my phone of like, this item has sold, this item has sold this item has sold and I'm like what is going on with this thing like we did nothing and it's so easy compared to our own website where we were spending all the money I mean there was no profit like that we were just spending all the money trying to get things sold and like the returns were lower the conversion

rates were insanely good so that's how we got started on Amazon. We didn't, we no longer sell clothing. We do home goods where, you know, on, on Amazon. And it just changed how we were looking at e-commerce. And so we focused on building a brand on Amazon and then building the website after. And then through that process, we were like, oh my gosh, we need a warehouse. And we reached out to all the existing 3PLs on the market. And they either had no experience with Amazon or didn't want us because we were too small. We weren't big enough. And they weren't

specialized in it. And so we said, you know, having our own warehouse is not that difficult for us because of like how we grew up. I mean, we grew up running around the back of a warehouse. So that's how we started it. And then we started letting friends send stuff to us. And then we realized, wait, there's a hole in the market that we can really fill and then also help fellow sellers. And that's, that's kind of the whole story of how River Source started and how we got into this whole game. Wow. Do you remember what year is that when you guys started working with Amazon or selling? That was in 2013. Yeah. So it's been

seven years, which is crazy. That was the fun time when the restrictions are, it's like open ocean, right? You do whatever. Yeah. I mean, I remember when we first, so we started doing the clothing on Amazon and then we brought on partners to take over the clothing e-commerce. And then Kevin and I spent six months doing something called retail arbitrage. So we would go to retail stores like Costco, Target, Walmart, Walgreens, Rite Aid. We would buy things there and then sell them for a profit on Amazon. And for whatever reason, those products weren't on there until people were willing to pay. So we were actually fulfilling an actual service, you know, like Trader Joe's, right? Trader Joe's isn't everywhere. So we would buy stuff from Trader Joe's and we would package it and put it online. And then people from all over the country

could now buy Trader Joe's through Amazon. And so we did that for about six months and that gave us a lot of exposure to like all the different categories on Amazon. And that helped us kind of frame the business to where it is today. It was so fun. That was fun. I remember, okay, so there was this item, I won't name it, but I saw in, in, in a store and I think it was in Heather Ridge. Cause I know all the store, the Costco I've done roadshow all over the country. So I know that a lot of it. And I said, this stuff sells so much. So I called every single Costco in California. How many do you have? I will buy it in pallets. I'll pick it up today. I would go and fill my trunk with products. And I was like, I need to rent a truck. Cause you know, and they

look at me weird. Like what the heck is this Asian lady buying all this stuff by pallets of their pallets. But I remember those in 2013, when I was like, it was fun. Right fun right um I did that with uh there were these rubber made um cereal boxes like they're like the oval kind of shaped and they were selling so well but my local Costco's were out I found some in Orange County and I drove down there I called the day before I said save the whole pilot I'm taking the whole thing. And I go there and they've loaded up this flatbed with all of the cereal containers. And I saw this girl that I went to law school with and she sees me and I'm trying not to make eye contact. Cause like, what kind of insane person goes to Costco and buys like a hundred cereal containers. And even people in line are like, what are you doing with all of this stuff? And I'm just like, Oh, um, you know,

I have a daycare or something. Like I made up some ridiculous excuse as to why I would need all of these containers. Um, but yeah, I just, I remember her looking at me and we weren't close or anything. So I just kind of continued to like do my own thing, but I know she was probably like, why is she here buying all these cereal containers? Hey, it doesn't really matter. You're making so much money. Yeah, it was so fun. That was so fun.

Now, how is it, Jean, working with your brother? How do you guys work together? You know, it has not always been great. It's been really challenging. We have sibling dynamics, right? I mean, like, if you think just about like, just the sibling relationship, I mean, there's so much. My brother and I are complete opposites. And almost always. So initially, there was a lot of fighting. There still is, and we still have disagreements but I mean I think that's actually something that's helped us be more successful because we are thinking about things so differently but we can come together and like we've really had to work on our relationship

in terms of how are we communicating when he's saying something like my initial reaction is oh I need to fix whatever it is but sometimes he's just venting and not, and for like, and vice versa is just making sure like the intent of what we're saying to each other is really clear. And also I think what's great is with business partners, a lot of times things can be hard because there's, you know, emotions, ego, all of that stuff in the way. And with your sibling, I think you can be brutally honest. I know that everything's coming from a place of love. And like, at the end of the day, like you will always be siblings. And I think that makes it really strong. And I think it could, it depends, I guess, on that relationship. But for us, yeah, like I love being in business with my brother. Are there days where I don't like him

much? Yes. But we will still eat lunch together you know like it's it's really it's really nice I'm sure for our team sometimes it can get uncomfortable because we're just totally candid with each other you know um but for the most part I think it's worked out really well wow so how do you separate that the um the hat of being you know a family and then the hat of being, you know, a family and then the hat of putting on to different ideas and to running a business, like how would you deal with that? What's. Yeah. I think it was, it's easier now that we have a team when it was just the two of us like running around doing everything. I think now that we have a team, we kind of oversee different aspects of the business. And then when it comes to like vision for the entire

company, then we do that together. So I oversee like most of our marketplaces and then Kevin oversees like more the creative and the marketing aspect and then our own site stuff. So we kind of definitely split that. when it comes to River Source, we actually have a third partner who we brought on to run day-to-day operations. And so in that business, Kevin and I are very much the visionaries and then our business partner is the COO and he runs day-to-day operations. So yeah, it's, and then it's like, you know, like I said, Kevin and I are still opposites that like, um, outside of work, it's like, you know, we see each other at family, like, you know, family stuff, but like, I think we get good separation there. If that makes sense.

Wow. I was, I was able to visit your massive, um, warehouse one time I was carpooling with you so thank you for giving me a tour I mean that thing is massive I was just laughing when I you know I was able to visit your team and your warehouse was like oh my god I remember I still have the garage like very small one car garage that's my warehouse I I was just, that was, that was so inspiring. Now, Jean, what was one of your deepest motivation in life? Oh man. To really get deep and just to be like, I think it, there's a deep rooted desire to succeed from my family and my parents. My parents are immigrants to the US. They immigrated from Korea in the late seventies and I, you know, watching them own their own

business because, I mean, they didn't have college education. They didn't speak English very well. So what could they do? They needed their own business because they weren't very employable, especially in that day and age. So watching them work when they had the retail store seven days a week, I mean, working from 8am until 9, 10pm at night, you know, seeing that struggle and always hearing them say like, oh, you know, you're going to get the education here and you're going to be successful as long as you keep trying and you do your best.

They never asked for perfection. They just asked for always doing my best. So I would say maybe it's that drive to like meet those expectations and help them and help their dreams come true. So I think that's been a major driving force and just like nose down grind and you just get it done no matter what. Wow. Now I know you're a lawyer. Do you still miss that once in a while? I loved law school. I thought it was really interesting. It was fun intellectually. The practice of law is nothing like law school. So no, I don't miss it. I'm a collaborative person, not an adversarial person. So I think personality wise, it's not a good fit for me. And there's lots of lawyers out there that work in a collaborative manner.

But just for me, it was, I don't think it was a good fit. And I didn't have anyone in my life that wasn't a working attorney, right? So like none of my parents' friends were professionals or anything. So I couldn't, you know, ask someone that was older what it's really like. I had interned in college at a law firm, but you know, they don't really let interns do much, right? We like file papers and stuff like that. So I don't think I really knew what the practice of law was going to be like until I did it myself. So I don't miss it. I really, really enjoy actually working with my team. And I feel like I went from a place of where I was selling my time, right, because lawyers literally sell their time, to a place where I can create something that can be evergreen and continue on without my active involvement. Whereas as a lawyer, like you, you do need to be involved. It's your license. It's, you know, your brain. But now I can create products and services that can go on, you know, even after I'm dead, which is kind of crazy. Oh, wow. Now, Jean, to what do you do, what you do attributed to your success?

I think that it goes back to grit. My husband says that I am one of the most stubborn people he's ever met in his life. He always uses this example of, I did a 30 day juice cleanse. So for 30 days, I did not eat any food. I just drank juice that I made like every night. It took me like four hours every night. This is of course before the baby and all of that. But like he said, just watching you go through that, he realized he's like, you are one stubborn person. If you put your mind to anything, you will do it. I think for me, when I announce something, when I say I'm going to do something, the

stakes are real because now I feel like I'm a person of my word, so I need to do it. There's no option not to. I think I'm also a little bit more risk taking than probably most people. Like, I mean, who quits their like lovely lawyer job and like goes and does e-commerce, something that you know nothing about and just kind of quits, right? Yeah. So I think it's a combination of just sheer grit that I will make it happen. And then lack of a lack of being scared. I'm not scared. Does that make sense? I don't know. There's probably a better word for that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I totally relate to you. And how did you guys build a team and your culture?

Um, at first we just hired whoever kind of like bodies, right? Like we just wanted help and bodies and of people who are nice and like, you know, that we're going to be good to work with because we would have to spend all day with them. Um, and you know, we just hired through Craigslist and, and, you know, wherever we could. As we've grown, um, I think our standards keep going higher and higher and higher. Um, and we've actually implemented EOS, which is the entrepreneurial operating system, um, by Gina Whitman. The book is called Traction, highly recommend it. I think that's really helped us learn how to manage our team and lead the team

in clear ways and make sure that we're communicating to our team. Because if you think about it, Kevin and I are like the coaches of the team, right? And we weren't clearly communicating with them and we weren't setting clear goals for them. And then we would be like, why isn't our team doing these things that we want? And I think we learned a better language to communicate with them so that they know what's expected and they can rise to the challenge. With regards to hiring now, it's, it's, we do everything from, you know, posting jobs, asking for referrals from our team, also using headhunters and agencies to find top talent. I went to a hiring seminar for EO. And one of the coolest things that kind of shifted my mindset on this

was really successful, good employees aren't unemployed. They're working and they're busy working and they're not looking for new jobs. And when I heard that, I was like, this is true. Maybe, you know, there's something to this. And so that kind of shifted my mindset about using headhunters and agencies, because like those, those are the people who can kind of spot that talent and really go aggressively, like, I can't spend all day on LinkedIn messaging random people. Um, but that's what these, you know, but that's what they specialize in. And so using, leveraging the agencies too for that. Yeah. It's definitely hard to create a brand in Amazon. How did you guys do it? I attribute that, uh, really largely to, um, our experience our experience and history in fashion.

It's really hard to create a brand. It's really expensive. And I think that what we thought was, we're not just going to be like this company that happens to sell stuff on Amazon. We really wanted to be intentional about the aesthetics, the packaging, even the copy that we're using, the brand in photos, because like, how do you create just an online brand? That's not your own website. And Amazon has very like optimize their, their pages for checkout, right? Like to get people to actually

buy the things. And so a lot of it was around the images and then our packaging and just product design. And just, we always say that like, we're customer service company first, right? And so making sure that that experience was next level. And I think consumers are now getting smarter and more and realizing more that like when you buy on Amazon, you're not buying from Amazon necessarily, like 60% of sales on Amazon are through third-party sellers like you and me, right? And so I think consumers are realizing that. And I think one brand that I look up to on Amazon

that has done an amazing job of that is Anker. They're that electronics brand. You know, they sell the battery packs and things like that. And they've done an amazing job of establishing themselves as a killer brand on Amazon. And now when I see them at Brick and Mortar, I'm just like, wow, anchor, good job, you know, and I think their branding across all platforms is like really uniform. And I think they've done a really good job of that. Yeah, that's one thing that one of my mistake as I was

starting in 2013, I didn't really build a brand because i got complacent with selling stuff that velocity and the like it was just so easy and i was like why would i make my life harder when it was easy and then shit hit the fan and i was like oops gone yes but i wish i could have done it in the beginning because it was easier back then to start that now it's really harder and way competitive competitive in a different category yeah i mean the market has changed a lot it's not what it was in 2013 i don't think it's impossible now it's just like you said it's harder possibly but it's expensive um but i also think that it makes you constantly stay on your toes and think like okay what's, what's next?

What's next? Like you won't, you can't be complacent now. It just, it's just not a sustainable way to be on Amazon. It's very fast moving. Yeah. And how do you deal when, you know, you get this red notification and it's so hard to get in touch with seller support? That ain't gotta be so frustrating. Wow, yeah.

I think that's a big sore spot for a lot of sellers on Amazon. There's a sense of powerlessness when you see that red flag performance notification or something's going wrong and you just don't feel like you're getting connected to the people that can help you. Well, we, there's a couple of things. Well, one, the stress, I think my tolerance for stress has gone from like here to like off the charts, right? Like most things don't bother me now. I feel like, and I know you and I have talked about

this, whereas you're just like, oh, the government closed the whole thing down. Okay, well, we'll figure it out, right? Whereas before, you would lose sleep and you'd be like, I can't eat. And you would get to that place. And now you're just like, okay, well, we're just going to figure out a way around. We're going to find the solution. So I think I fully made that transition from panic to like okay just another hurdle we need to get over and and we'll figure it out we um we are part of the strategic account management plan so

we have an account manager with Amazon we pay for that um and what I mean I mean there's a lot of criticism around the program there's a lot of you know whatever it is at the end of the day for us, one of the main reasons that we're involved in it is that we have a dedicated account manager that we can call, email and say, hello, something terrible is happening. We need help. Or, you know, can you please help us get through the hurdles? So we leverage that a lot. And then I also have a team in the Ukraine that manages our Amazon accounts. So they are, I think it's eight hours ahead of us. So they're up when I'm not up.

So we almost have like 24 hour coverage of like people just keeping an eye on the account and making sure everything's okay. Obviously do everything above board, not doing shady things that subject you to more risk of getting shut down, which is, many times and that's your oh my god i cannot stress how many times that happened and you just that's your whole life support right there and unplug and like you're you're not in your office and your whole team, it just hardens in panic. So I have to give you that hat for like knowing how to just, okay, let's come down. There's a solution.

That's good. You know what? That's really smart that you'll have an account support to, um, you know, that you paid, but before that wasn't an option. It wasn't there. And I remember, you know, what's so crazy. I think I've mentioned this to you at one point when they're giving you loan, like 200 grand, 300 grand, right? Yeah. So they gave me that loan and all of a sudden I have a free account support system. So it's like, ha, now i know how they operate right because they want you to pay that loan of course they have a vested interest in your success yeah and the very first day i got the money it's like ding ding ding ding it's so many sales it's like definitely someone's like pushing the green buttons like this so i can pay my loan right right um going

back to what you were saying about being on vacation and like things happening in 2016 I got married and I went on my honeymoon and I planned my wedding for during Chinese New Year so everything would be slow right like I mean I had I thought about the whole thing so my husband and I we go to um a tiny little island in French Polynesia where like the whole thing so my husband and I we go to a tiny little island in French Polynesia where like the internet is so slow like there's not really internet while we were there I mean like there the island lost power and I'm like what was speaking coming to this incredibly remote place when I have like an e-commerce business you know during that time it was my brother me we had a gal named Laura and then we

had a warehouse manager and the warehouse manager sent in the wrong inventory to FBA this is our best-selling item and I start getting I don't know if it was a text message it was must have been it must have been email because my phone wasn't working. I got an email saying the wrong inventory got checked in and it's chaos. So imagine, you know, like your best selling item and the inventory being attributed to that is not the right item. It got messed up, wrong size. So, um, I couldn't do anything because the internet was so slow and I couldn't be on the phone I couldn't call seller support I couldn't do anything and I think that was a major exercise after that my brother basically said you could never go on vacation again because every time

you go on vacation something bad happens so yeah that's it's that's just something funny but yeah I mean definitely when you go on vacation that's when something happens and then you know thank god our spouses are so understanding because I'm like sitting there on my laptop like frantically typing trying to fix things you know always always something happens yeah and I that happens to me a lot and dan my husband goes to see oh my god something's happened because my face is just in a different it's like it's just a different mode like how i'm gonna fix don't talk to me right now talk to me right now i just gotta fix this right and uh oh my god i i now that you reminding me, I could feel my nerves popping. Sorry, Kate.

No, you're fine. It just takes me back time. But I have a lot of funny moments while selling in Amazon. I would go in a hotel and I would pack and ship. I would order Yolain in Vegas hotel and I would pack and ship I was like concierge you better drop this off I literally would bring packages in my luggage and packing slip and I have that portable printer because I want to go that's the truth and I would just leave my extra u-line boxes in my hotel room like you know

what you can just throw it in trash but I was hustling yeah and uh that's really funny story um but I hate that when you have that red flag for some reason that's just the worst thing that you could ruin your day yeah I get like I have PTSD now I'm like scared to click I see it I'm just like oh you know like I'm like a little bit like oh what is it this time you know and it's usually not anything not a big deal but like I do I get a little anxiety clicking on that. So hopefully it pops up when my team's looking at it and not me. Yeah. And what was, is there any group of Amazon seller that you're part of? I remember there's that fuel something. Are you part of that group? The seller fuel? Seller fuel. I'm in a lot of groups now. I mean, on Facebook, there's so many,

so many have come and gone and doing all of that. But yeah, I mean, that's, that's where a lot of just community for Amazon sellers happens. Okay. And do you feel like that really helps you a lot? So much. I think I learned the most from just, and it's hard now because we can't get together in people, but going to seller conferences and meeting other sellers and going to masterminds and things like that. Just networking. People are so good at sharing stuff. It's not like, oh, these are all my secrets and you can't know I think people are just really really good at sharing information what's working for them what's not um yeah I

think people are really open and and it's a great community to belong to yeah I remember I was part of that e-commerce fuel I think my friend actually introduced me to that and they're really good stuff what to do what to do like you know give you tips and it was actually a husband of Shama Haider which is my previous guest and she you should listen to her talk so she's one of the amazing person uh like so powerful so smart um female it was her her husband actually told me that group and he told me that really helps a lot of his Amazon account. It really was a big help. Now, Jane, can you name a person who has had a tremendous impact on you as a leader? you know I'm gonna have to say my mom I know that's kind of like a weird I don't know weird thing but like I think, I think my mom, um, like I said, she owned her own business,

a clothing manufacturing company. Um, and I learned a lot from her on things to do and things not to do. Um, I know one big lesson that I learned from my mom was in her business. Like she had to control everything. Um, and as a result, like there's a ceiling that you hit, right? When you're trying to do everything, like there's only so much that one human can do. And I feel like that's a major lesson that I learned from her. Also just in terms of like how to lead without, um, it's hard. You work with your team day in and day out and they become family. Right. Um, and sometimes those feelings can get in the place of actually like leading and

executing and making sure that you're doing the best thing for the company, which in turn is then the best thing for your team. I think that I'm a very like nice person, I'd like to think. And then sometimes like, I don't want to say things that are uncomfortable, right? So as a leader, just being radically candid. And I think that's something that my mom also struggled with too. And I learned that like, if we can't do those things, we can't improve our team and we can't improve our company. So I think that's something that like, I learned from her. And lastly, those relationships and just how loyal your team can be with you is incredible. And my mom did an amazing job that so much so that to this day, when I have like production problems and stuff,

I still call her old, my mom's production manager and I'll call her and I'll be like, Ellen, I need help with this, that, and the other thing. We, we had to do some like sampling and my mom's old pattern maker came to our office and was helping us sew stuff. I mean, like talk about building that much loyalty with, with your team so much so that like they are willing to help your children, you know, 10, 15 years later. So learning that from my mom about you know obviously business is business but also those relationships and and um really kind of helping your team um our book my mom's bookkeeper that that was with her in her business she still works for us so she Kevin and I

were able to hire her um so like that's amazing amazing. I mean, it's so my mom, I a hundred percent learned work ethic and things to do and things not to do in leadership. She's, she's amazing. Yeah. Wow. It's amazing that your mom, like you have that support that really knows the in and out of your business because, you know, that's what she's been doing all these years. Yeah. It's funny because, you know, like sometimes you just, at the end of the day, like you don't want to talk more about work, right?

You want to go home and talk about something else sometimes. And my mom always wants to talk about business. Like she wants to, she calls me, she's like, how are sales today? And I'm like, mom what she's so interested and i think i'm like i it's okay to tell her i'm like listen i don't want to talk about work i want to you know just relax so she will call our bookkeeper and be like so how are things going it's just what about her like hey what's her having that today the net profit what's our profit margin our collectibles

you know like how are things and um it's so funny um but yeah it's great it's i'm we were so fortunate to have her um a lot of times when we when early on ken and i would get you know i told you we'd get into fights like it'd be like let's call mom let's call mom and see what she thinks you know I told you we'd get into fights like it'd be like let's call mom let's call mom and see what she thinks you know because she does have the experience um and yeah she had her own business for our whole lives so well knowing that your mom is is really like you know your inspiration what is the best word or compliment she'd ever given you? Gosh, I think my mom, the tiger mom, right? Never, it was never good enough I mean like it's not that she didn't love me but she always wanted to push me to always do my best and I think when I was younger I didn't always like so she would always just push and push and push and I think after we started our business I think she was

really worried because for the longest time Kevin and I weren't taking out any money and so like we were like living off mac and cheese and like you know doing that whole starving starting business you process, which I feel like is a rite of passage and teaches you how to be scrappy. Right. I think it was probably a year or two after we were profitable and making money that she said, Oh, now I don't have to worry about you and Kevin. Right. That's like translated to saying like, I'm so proud of you. You're going to be okay. Like, you know, all of that stuff. And so I think that was, yeah, that was a big moment when she was like, I'm, I'm, I don't have to worry about you. Yeah. Wow. It's very hard when you have a tiger mom and none of them are really vocal about like,

I'm proud of you. You did such an amazing job. Like, I think you have to pay them $1 million known tax before they'll say that. Or even with a million dollars, they won't say that. No, it'll be like, well, why isn't this too? Yeah. Yes. And there's definitely a good thing comes out from that. I think because we always look for that, like, oh, we're still waiting of that, you know, oh, you did a great job. And it keeps us pushing us more to the point that we bulldoze ourselves to stress because we want to prove ourselves that we are good enough for them but that was that where is that fine line of you know it's very difficult oh yeah um i wrestle with and i i've talked to you about this before and i've mentioned it um i've wrestled with like my identity right in 2018 we had a rough

patch with like crazy competitors doing all kinds of black hat stuff and like our sales were down and it was it was really stressful time and I really wrestled with it because we were so fortunate to see like success and growth year over year, like my identity was kind of wrapped up in that. And then to have to take this hit, I was just like, Whoa, like we could lose all of this. Then who am I after that? Right. I'm like, my business was everything. It was, I mean, like I've given up all my hobbies that, you know, I didn't see my friends that much. Like I, all I wanted to do was like work and grow this business. And so like I struggled with that. And then like the sense and like the worry about disappointing my family, disappointing myself,

all of that, but it's, it's really overwhelming. And I think going through that phase really helped me realize like my worth and my value and my identity is not my business it's not how much money I make it's not you know it's not any of that um and then having a baby on top of that was like oh like my business is an investment It's not my baby and it's not me. And it's not an extension of that. My business is an investment that I manage and run that allows me to have this life outside of that. And I think having that distance is, is really healthy. And I think that even with like that constant drive, it doesn't matter if I have a business or if I'm a stay at home mom, or, you know, if I have a regular job, like, I think that drive will always be there, which will always help me be successful.

Like I always said, like, it would be like the worst thing for me to be a stay at home mom. Cause then I would want to be like PTA president. I would be organizing, you know, like, I don't know. I would have a daycare after school. I'm sure like I would come up with like, you know, more businesses outside of it and then be like just as busy as if I had this business or had a regular job. Wow. Now, Jean, what scares you the most about this current situation? I know your business is doing so well, right? Yeah. Yeah, we're very fortunate. Right now, during Coronavirus, I think what scares me most about what's going on is, yes, we might be seeing an increase, because, you know, people are shopping from home a lot. What scares me is more the global

economy, not right now, but six months or 12 months out and what that's going to look like. I feel like we can weather anything for three months, right? We can weather anything maybe for four or five months, but like with the unemployment numbers with second and third waves going through the Asian countries, and then eventually what's going to probably come to the US and seeing resurgence of COVID-19. I'm scared about that future and what that looks like. So I guess scared is like a not scared per se. I'm concerned because it's very unclear. So it's very foggy. And like, as then as a leader in my business, even as a, you know, even as a mom, it's like,

what is my kid's future going to look like in this kind of a world that was unimaginable to us like four months ago, right? Three months ago, gosh. So I think that's the bigger concern around what is this impact going to look like for the whole economy in six months to 12 months. Yeah. Wow. Now, what is something you would do even if you'd never made any money something I would do even if I never made any money mm-hmm gosh I really love um I really love helping and inspiring people who don't know what they have, if that makes sense. Um, I love pushing people a little bit out of their comfort zone. Um, so I have a group of friends were in a chat and one of the gals is a chef.

And as a result of coronavirus, long story short, you know, she wasn't able to work. The hotel closed down the restaurant that she was the chef at. And so group effort of everyone in there, we encouraged her to start her own meal delivery. She's an amazing chef. Every time she was cooking herself food and sharing pictures with us, I'm like, I'm so tired of cooking. Can you please make this food so I can buy it and feed it to my family. And, and she started it last week and just seeing the excitement and the success happening from it. And for her seeing her get really busy and like really into that, like,

it's so fun for me. So I love, even if I never make money off doing something like that. And I don't, I'm not like a coach or like a consultant or anything like that, but just even just sharing and like having those discussions and showing people that there are possibilities above and beyond what they're just seeing in front of their face. I love that. It's that is fulfillment to me. So whether that ever made me a penny or not, like, I think that's something that I would keep doing. Wow. Now, if you could do it all over again, would you do the same thing? Why or why not? A hundred percent. I love it. It's been hard, really hard. There've been many sleepless nights,

but a hundred percent, I would do it all over again. It's been so awesome. Wow. Now, Jean, how do you want to be remembered? I think I would want to be remembered as first and foremost, a good mom, a good wife, a good person, someone who leaves things better than she found it, a good friend. Yeah, as a generous person who's happy and living her best life. Wow. Thank you so much, Jean. Where can they find you? What's your handle? My Instagram is my name at Jin Chan. I'm not huge on social media, but that's probably the easiest place to find me. And what's the website for the 3PL if anyone wants to use this service? Yes, it's www.riversourcelogistics.com. Well, Jin, thank you so much. It's so nice talking to you.

I've been in Carpool with you so many times. And thank you for sharing your story. I appreciate you so much. Thanks, Kate. This is really, really fun. Thanks so much for having me. Bye. Bye.

We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to rate, review, really fun. Thanks so much for having me. Bye. Bye. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe and visit katehancock.com so you don't miss out on the next episode.