Founder's Story - Civility Rules | Ep. 41 with Shelby Scarbrough

Episode Date: December 11, 2020

Shelby Scarbrough combines an entrepreneurial background with the pride and responsibility of public service to bring new perspectives to each endeavor. Her career began as a political appointee in the Reagan and Bush Administrations, first as Presidential Trip Coordinator in The White House, a Protocol Officer at the U.S. Department of State Ms. Scarbrough worked with such notable figures as: His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, Presidents Reagan, Bush, Ford, Carter and Nixon, President Walesa of Poland, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth and members of the Royal Family, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Nelson Mandela. Shelby was a Burger King franchisee for nearly 20 years with 10 restaurants in Northern Virginia until she exited in 2013. She just published her first book.  Please rate, review, subscribe, and share with a friend who will be inspired. Visit KateHancock.com for insights into guests and future episodes. Today's episode is sponsored by Anchor. Make sure to check out Anchor.fm and see why we love to use them as our podcast hosting. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ibhshow/supportOur Sponsors:* Check out PrizePicks and use my code FOUNDERS for a great deal: www.prizepicks.com* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: www.rosettastone.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to Inspired by Her, the podcast that will give you the inspiration, motivation and tips for success from some of the top executives, CEOs and influencers from around the globe. With your host, serial entrepreneur and named one of the most influential Filipina in the world, Kate Hancock. And we are live. Hi everyone, this is Kate Hancock for the Inspired by Her podcast and today I have Shelby Scarbo. Hi Shelby. Hi Kate, how are you? Oh I'm doing great. I can't wait to talk to you and talk about your book. Well thank you for having me on and it was good to see you up in my little hometown recently so we got to a chance to kind of play with it then and it'll be fun to share it now I know thank you so much for hosting and opening your house to us sure my pleasure my pleasure yeah it's always you know even in a time of COVID it's always sort of sad to be so separated and I really like seeing people when they're

coming through town I know oh thank you so Well, I cannot forget your house because that was the longest table party. What is that? 2016 ever? Yes. I attended? Yes. Yeah. In 2016, not 2016 people.

We had about 100 people. Yes, 100 people. All at one table, which is a great, it's a great symbol, symbolistic piece, you know, of togetherness and, and everybody working, you know, together to for one goal, that kind of thing. Oh, my God. So Shelby, everyone, I have to read her bio. It's one of those, like, it just gives me goosebumps every time I read it. Yeah, okay. So everyone, Shelby is public speaker she's the previous eo global president which is i'm part of the entrepreneurs organization she's an author entrepreneur and in 2015 she was chosen

as a graduation speaker for the harvard business school graduation class which is amazing how did you feel when you got that shelby? Well, you know, it was a little bit of a surprise because I was sort of a quiet student, I guess, and it was just, it was really an honor, basically, to be able to stand up in front of my class and, you know, just talk about what our journey was about and share our experiences together. It was really a nice format. That's amazing. Now, Shelby works with His Holiness Pope John Paul II, President Reagan, Bush, up to Nelson Mandela. Now, she planned events for the White House at the Buckingham Palace, and she's the founder of the Practical Protocol. Now, she's launching a book, Civility Rules, which i can't

wait to talk about yes i just got my copy the other day oh my god i need a signed one for sure sure my pleasure it's fun to see it finally in print you know after a long time and in fact i got it i'm like wow i'm kind of surprised at how thin it is. It seemed a lot bigger to me when I was writing it. Now, Shelby, you can't pick a perfect time to launch it. We need that book before everyone's going to a Thanksgiving dinner. You know, that's a really good point. Right now we've got quite a bit on our plate. No, well, maybe pun intended. And to, you know, to head out to the holidays and to get together with people. We've got, we've had a very contentious political year. We've had a very difficult year from a health standpoint for this country in so many different ways. And,

and even now, you know, are we having a virtual dinner or are we getting together? And how do we make whatever it is a great experience for everybody there? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't pick a better time. Like some people are struggling going to family dinner because they can't stand each other. Yeah, they may love each other, but they might have a lot of different views, especially right now regarding politics. And so I can understand that. But I just hope that, you know, some of the things I talk about in the book is creating a purposeful practice of civility, your own practice of civility. So, you know, we always try to think that we could, well,

if you would just do this and if you would, Kate, if you would just change how you do things, then all the world would be all better. Well, you know, who likes being told what to do, especially you and I both know as the entrepreneurs organization that people like entrepreneurs certainly don't like to be told what to do. And I don't think really, ultimately, I don't think many people do. So it's more about what we can do to bring civility and joy to the Thanksgiving table and to our interactions with at work and to our interactions in the street, that kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Now, Shelby, what is civility? And what does that actually mean? Is it really enough? Well, that's a really good question, actually, because it, you know, as I've been going into this journey, it's, I'm telling you, I'm talking about launching a civility summit

right now, early next year. And the topic is wide and deep. And it doesn't, it doesn't seem like it might be because a lot of times we kind of reduce it right down to manners and, and being nice to one another, but it's really, really deeper than that. And that's why I talk about what I talk about in the book is the foundation, the formation of the concept of civility is really about trust and respect and building those. It's not about demanding people trust you, but showing that we're trustworthy. It's about honor. And it's not about demanding that people treat us with honor, but that we honor other people. And, you know, the idea that if you, the pay it forward, that we just, you know, we push it forward into the world and that it will circle back to us if we behave, you know, the Gandhi phrase of be the change. If we

behave the way we want to see the world, it's not about telling other people how to behave at all, but it's about living it yourself and embodying it, believing in it, at the core values of duty, trust, honor, empathy, and courtesy. So courtesy is sort of what people think of civility right at the outset. That's the courtesy part, which is our to-dos, our manners. Right now, a good one would be that, you know, I base this on George Washington's rules of civility. He wrote 110 rules when he was 16, and they were actually taken from a French monk who wrote them a couple hundred years before society and that these kinds of rules don't have to be for noblemen, they don't have to be for high society they are actually something that us how to work with one another in a democratic world as well. And that it's just as important to think of our citizens and our fellow civilians with a context of civility. In other words, how do we work together to create our community? So our local, our family community, our friends community, our local community, our states, our country, our global community. And how do we, what framework do we use to really

engage with one another? Wow, love it. Yeah, no. Now, why does civility matter? So it matters because the, right now, I think you can see the opposite. You can see, everybody understands what incivility looks like. I mean, we don't really have to, and mostly we can probably point to examples around us. Ooh, I hear somebody doing work out here. I can close my door in a second if it's too loud. But mostly it's about we can see it.

We know it when we see it. We know what incivility is and so what i'm trying to say is if we if we want to see a more uh graceful place if we want to see a kinder space if we want to um have a happier more joyful life as an individual and to see that our our communities and our country thrives then we must look at what we are doing to bring civility to the table. To me, that's why it matters. It's a matter of keeping our country together.

Yeah, absolutely. Now, how do we measure civility? Is there such thing? You know, I've never thought of it in terms of measurability. Of course, from an entrepreneurial standpoint and a business standpoint, everything needs to be quantified, right? And so this is a little bit of those softer skills. So if you look at it, let's just say in

your own community, do you want me to close the door? Yes. Okay. One second. I'll be right back. How uncivil of me. It always happened in this world. Exactly, exactly. We're at home, we're trying to create a sound studio in a place that is not meant to be. And that's actually a good thing. It's my responsibility, not his. I don't need to tell him to stop playing his saw or whatever he's doing out there. I need to make, make the world that I need to have. So, so you said quantifiable. So I guess the best way we could talk about this is from a business

standpoint. I wrote a chapter for a book called the crisis of disengagement. And that was Andrew Sherman. Andrew was the legal, original legal counsel for the Entrepreneurs Organization. And he's a lawyer in town. He's written in Washington, D.C. He's written over 27, maybe it's 28, 29 books by now on business, all sorts of different subjects. He's, I can't say this word without missing, indefatigable, I think, in that, tireless in his writing about this.

So I added a chapter to one of his books about the crisis of civility as it results to disengagement in the workplace. So if you want to quantify this, you said, can it be measured? So let's look at it in our work environment and say, what's our turnover? Is civility or incivility, is our culture part of either our ability to retain clients and employees, or is it affecting it in a negative way? Are they disengaged? Are they not interested in working together because there's a negativity that's around? So just looking at your turnover is one measurable amount.

And that's where I think civility could be looked upon as a way to instill some core values, look at core values and to help bring that conversation to the table and have people be able to have a platform to talk to one another in a way that is, again, so that they can be heard, not that, and that we are willing to listen, instead of in defensive conversations or accusatory conversations. Just that one example, personnel turnover. Yeah. So how can we create a culture of civility in our, in our organization? You know, again, I go back, our little group, the, you know, 15,000 little entrepreneurs, the Entrepreneurs Organization has a a great formula I think that we can all of us who know how to do this because we go to forum training. And so we know that in our forum training we talk about things like asking clarifying questions. I talk about listening to learn and learning to listen. We talk about clarifying questions in the sense that when you don't understand something or

you or maybe you disagree instead of jumping right in with our well I think this it what if we use some of our EO tools and said well I don't I'm not quite understanding what you're talking about perhaps you could elaborate here or give me an example of something that you've experienced so that I can understand more fully and and really be wanting to do that, not in a manipulative or gamesmanship way, but in a genuine way. We have to bring a heart to this as well as a head. Absolutely. And then just being able to find a place, an outlet for our frustrations and things. Because people are human.

You know, we're normal. We've been cooped up at home or we're forced to go out and work in a world that's scary right now. I mean, there's just, everybody's got something. So bringing empathy to the table and recognizing that nobody's perfect and giving people the benefit of the doubt that if they say something to you, that is triggering, we have all these catchwords these days, you know, I'm triggered because of this, or feels misogynistic, or feels racist, or feels, I mean, these are all very valid concerns, but what if we, what if we, instead of reacting immediately, what if we just took a step back and tried to put ourselves in the other person's shoes, gave them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they

weren't trying to insult us, or intimidate us us or do anything other than just have a conversation. And then if we responded as if that were the conversation, not with the response to a triggering, if that makes sense. And I am not a psychiatrist. I am not a diversity specialist. But all of these kinds of things seem to me to just be basic human communication skills we can put to play here. Yeah, we just now aren't you glad this it's like a week over the election now that we can breathe a little bit. Yeah, it does. You know, we, we, there's, there's going to be a come coming together of this one way

or the other. In fact, we I'm a little nervous that we will see Some unrest coming up and I really implore people to think about the fact that look change is hard. And one way or the other, we don't half this country is not going to get what they want. So it's we're not a unified country right now, even, Even with the election, we are not unified. And to respect that your neighbor, your brother, your father, somebody, your colleague might not agree with the outcomes, whatever outcome it is, and that we need to have some respect for that.

There's a lot of demonizing of somebody else's political views which I just don't see as helpful in any sense if we want real change we need to work together and we need to respect each other and that that the middle of this country look every country every community every has their far extreme views that are we kind of come to say that's not we you know again you kind of know it when you see it um but i think we we've we've jumped way into um reacting far too severely to the fact that somebody may have voted for the democrat or somebody may have voted for the republican candidate whatever we think of those candidates it's just not healthy to demonize somebody else. There's no conversation starter there. None. It shuts it down. And I'm a big fan of freedom of speech. I mean, that's what this book, I talk about its effect on democracy, is if we have one voice in this world, one voice in this country, and only one opinion is allowed, we don't have a democracy. And we were handing it over to people who gladly, entities, people, unseen technology companies, faceless, nameless things, and AI,

and all these other things that can control us. And I know that sounds a little woo-woo out there, but it is true. It's true. And we need to be responsible, take it back for ourselves and be a part of the solution. And protests, all in favor of protests, loud, proud, but not attacking. I'm for this, not you are bad because I'm in favor of this, not you are, you know, your idea is wrong. So positive vocalization. Great. Yeah. That actually happened to me. And I think the person was really trying to hit me in the core and he was, what he was saying, I can't believe you're this X, Y, Z, and you're a Filipina and you believe this X, Y, Z. I was like, I didn't, you know, I didn't bother what you believe in. Just embrace me, what I stand for. It has to be that way. Well, we've gotten to the point that if you believe this, you are

the picture of evil. And I find that just fascinating. I think that's a tactic. It's not true. It's just not true that somebody who believes in one side or the other of politics, they're not evil spawn. They're just not. They are people who have a reason for their views. And then what gets put onto the media are the very extremes, the people who come to protest with guns, the people who try to hurt other people at protests, the people, you know, those are what get the news. And that's not the majority of the people in this country or in this world. We, I think the majority of people in this world want to live together and try to make this place the best that we can. We

have one life, one planet, and we, we, you know, we can work together. It doesn't need to be mandated. My fear, and I, you know, I had a friend, Troy Hazard, who is an EO member or was an EO member, he used to say, don't make fear-based decisions. And I think that's a really wise statement. But I do have a fear that if we abdicate our personal responsibility on this quest and on this mission and say it's somebody else's job to be civil and not mine, then we are abdicating our democracy and we are abdicating and we are letting people write rules and legislation and laws on civility. And I just think that's a slippery slope. We should not have to have many laws about

civility. I have asked somebody, shouldn't we just legislate it? And absolutely not. We need to be responsible as human beings, as individuals. So I'm just encouraging this personal participation in this so that some government official in some county and some state and some country doesn't come down and tell us how we're supposed to behave. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Shelby, what is the story behind the book? What made you decide to write this? Well, it started out as an idea for a children's book. George Washington, as I said, wrote these when he was a kid. And I had an idea that may come now after this as a children's book. But it just, it just really started to evolve into a philosophy and a practice for me. So while I'm, I'm, it's as verbal as I am about this right now, that's my job on this platform with you, right? Is to talk about it in a way that hopefully inspires other people to think about it and, and to engage in it at to what level they want to. But it is a little uncomfortable because a big part

of civility is humility. And so for me to come out and say, I'm the expert in civility, which I'm not, I'm a student of civility. I am not always civil. I can think of many, many, many, many, many examples in my life when I've been uncivil or displayed in civility. But it's a practice for me because I find that when I combine civility into my life, when I integrate it into what I do and I think about it proactively and consciously, I'm a lot happier. So it's a very selfish act on my part because I feel like if I give civility out into the world,

what comes back to me is joy and love and great new friends and interesting conversations and an opening of my mind to new things. I mean, I've not found any downside to acting civilly. Oh my God. That kind of really reminds me of my grandmother. She's like that person, like just, you know, chill down and just do the right thing. Like, just stay there and don't worry about it. Like, she say, also, as a characteristic of many, many cultures, the elders of society were really revered for their wisdom and their opinions and their viewpoints

and their experience in the world. And we could probably benefit from thinking about that a little bit more. As young, younger people, I'm not quite in that category anymore. But I know that, you know, especially we talk, we're both entrepreneurs and we, you know, we're about getting things done and getting to the bottom line and starting new things and pushing through obstacles. But, you know, it can be done in a way that, that brings people along with you. And it doesn't just bully everybody and mow them over. We don't have to leave a awake of a trail of bodies behind us in our quest for success, in our quest for whatever we're trying to do in our lives. You know, we are individuals,

but we're part of a bigger community as well. Absolutely. Now, Shelby, I'm going to ask your story. What was your journey like to get where you are? Well, I graduated from college. I went to UCLA and I had the opportunity to go and volunteer on one of the rallies with the signs and t-shirts and balloons and all that. So I was just out of school. I was 21, 22 years old or something. And, and I, after that, I met some people there who were involved in presidential advance. They were, they were assigned to work with the youth rally group. That was their assignment for the advanced team for the president. So I am, they said to me, well, you know, you should come work with us. If in California, when the president it was the it was President Reagan. And when he comes to California for his second term, the kickoff of that campaign, I should help them if I wanted to. And I volunteered for the week.

And after that, I was told that if he won, I should look into the inaugural committee. So I said, oh, I love it. So I called this gentleman, Jim Hooley, who I'd worked with. And I said, I'm calling to see about a job on the inaugural committee, because I graduated from college. This is now November. And I'd been interviewing for jobs. And I had a lot of interests and not a lot of focus. And so I think that was probably evident to employers at the time. I had a lot of energy, but I didn't say, oh, I want to be a physical therapist. I mean, I didn't have that kind of specific choice in mind. I was more generalist. So I ended up going back to Washington, D.C. to work on the inaugural committee,

which I didn't even know what it was when I really embarked on it. And then six weeks later, I was offered a job at the White House, working in presidential in that same office that I had been involved with, you know, back in the summer. And so I spent the next few years traveling around the world to help setting up as part of a team help to set up President Reagan's visits to different places and got to part, you know, help in economic summits in all the major cities in the world. And I went from the Venice Economic Summit and flew with the White House party. We flew into Berlin and watched President Reagan give his speech, you know, tear down this wall. And that phrase to me has so many layers to it. And I could have a whole hour discussion about what what he meant by it and what you know just just a whole the symbolism around everything around that but that's what I'm trying

to do the front of the cover of my book is is like a torn sheet and it's it's sort of about taking these standard old school rules you know know, traditional, straightforward rules, and just sort of ripping the bandage off and modernizing them a bit and bringing them into the current world. And so kind of civility rocks, instead of having it be rules that we have to follow, but more that philosophies that we might want to bring into our world. And then the idea that tearing down walls between people and between hearts and between cultures, you know, we can have our political views and still believe in civility.

Both parties can do that. And I think if we give each other the benefit of the doubt that we're not, you know, that everybody's not just in it for themselves, but that we do have the right in this country of self-determination and that I'm going to fight to preserve that. And at the same time, help us communicate and build deeper and stronger relationships. That's what I think my, probably my purpose is. I don't know after all this time. Yeah. Now, Shelby, knowing what you

know now, what would you do differently, whether it's personal or business? Well, I think the first thing to do is, is look at what you're, if you have, if you lament the lack of civility in our society, if that's something that is, is an important value to you, to anyone, then would be to look inside ourselves and say, what can I do to be a part of that solution, to help that? And I really would love to see a movement starting. I'm creating these cards that if anybody buys my book, they can let me know, they can either PM me through LinkedIn or Facebook, and then I'll have a button on my website pretty soon that says if they bought a book and they want a book plate with an autograph, that I will send them a couple

of extra goodies. And one of them is a card I've developed that you can carry in your pocketbook. And when you see somebody, I call it caught in the act of civility. And when you see someone who has demonstrated an act of civility, then acknowledge it. And it's not about judging it. It's about acknowledgement and gratitude and expressing that outwardly. So pass that card on to them. And on the card, it says, you've been caught in the act of civility. Thank you for your civil act. And if you find somebody else, pass this on. So it's about really just tangibly, actively engaging in looking for positive signs of civility in this world and living it yourself. Wow. I'm so guilty of that one this morning. I'm always civil to other people, but I'm so tough on the people I love like my husband I'm not civil all the time oh my god I need I need I need that sticker I

need to remind myself every day what does that look like oh my god but the card the credit cards they're like credit card size things so I'll send you some of those as well. They're coming back. They're hot off the presses pretty soon. So it's just a, you know, harping on the incivility, let's celebrate the civil moments that we witness or engage in and encourage other people to do the same. But basically, we can't change anybody else, but we can change our own behaviors. And that may be all it takes to change the rest of the world. And Shelby, what tips would you give for a family who's going to Thanksgiving and they're really nervous right now? What are three tips that you can give them? You know, go with love. Just want to learn about the other person. If they disagree with you, just, I would say, hold your tongue, listen, try to learn. And,

and you can, and if you do want to engage in a discussion, you know, there are many families actually that have great debates, you know, that they're, I can think of my friends, the Petersmeyers, they are really great at, at the dinner table discussing topics where they agree and disagree, but it's sort of like, okay, here's the topic of the day, discuss, and they have really substantive conversations at dinner. I'm not suggesting that we do that for the first time at Thanksgiving dinner, but if you are a family that does do that, then maybe set a couple of ground rules. Look, it's not no personal attacks, no demeaning somebody else. That's an unsophisticated argument tactic. That doesn't think about the argument. Think about the discussion. Think about tangible examples of why you may have the view you carry. And maybe, again,

it's showing some empathy and understanding of the others. And ultimately, it is okay to just not talk about a subject for a while. If politics is too divisive, then maybe you just say, look, let's not, let's just not, let's just table that for the, for tonight. And let's talk about other things. And if you have to get really constructive or put a construct around it is there's a lot of, there's a thing that I'm going to be representing on my e-commerce site that's coming up is called Table Topics. It's a girl that I went to high school with actually invented this thing called tabletopics.com, I guess you can go to, and she's sold the company since then. And it's just like growing, but basically it's a cube

that you can have, and there's different versions of it now. So you can get something like that for your Thanksgiving table and everybody pulls a question out and then everybody can answer it. Those are ways to have some structured conversations with questions and topics that aren't going to melt down the butter. Absolutely. We have that rule in our, my in-laws, Thanksgiving dinner, no politics. There you go. I mean, that's okay. I would like us to be able to have a conversation around politics that's positive and interactive and supportive of one another, especially if we disagree. But if in the event of a family dinner, you got to think of, I think this is a micro example of a macro situation. You do have to look at the greater good and the greater good of what would make a successful

Thanksgiving dinner for everybody is if you all went away feeling loved and cared for and full and happy and a little, you know, drowsy from Turkey, but not angry and upset. I mean, what's the point? Why bother? And if you think it's going to be that way, because that's the way it always is, this is an opportunity to talk about, can we set some, you know, you can call them rules, you can call them discussion points to set some boundaries and say, I'd really like to have a dinner that's free of angst. And can we have ways to talk about stuff? And maybe we play a game.

You know, some of these games are fun too, that you don't have, you know, that are, that are, especially with kids, like apples to apples and things like that. A family can play with kids and it's really fun and it's, it bonds you together and laughing a lot helps quite a bit. Yeah. I love it. Now, Shelby, can you name a person who has had tremendous impact on you as a leader? Oh my gosh, it's really, really simple.

First of all, my parents, who are entrepreneurs in their own right, so they taught me a lot about dignity and trust and honor, reliability, hard work, you know, integrity, those kinds of things. But then the next out of the gate there, my door is opening again, is Ronald Reagan, for sure. One of the most civil leaders I've ever met and that I've had the opportunity to work personally with, treated everybody exactly the same, no matter what you did, whether you were important or not. And he felt everybody was important. He was super considerate of people. And then I think just for the conversations here, there's lots of others, but another one that would

stand out and everybody would recognize is my experience with Nelson Mandela. He was right out of prison when I handled, took care of his trip in Washington, D.C. to the White House and the State Department and Capitol Hill. I had the opportunity to, you know, visit with him in his hotel room with his then wife, Winnie Mandela. He couldn't have been lovelier. He was, again, gracious and kind and soft-spoken. And one of the greatest things that I think most the world knows is that he, if you look into his history, it's not going to talk about me sitting in his hotel suite with himers. And if that isn't one of the greatest, um, acts of grace that I can imagine and how he embraced them and brought them into the fold and did not, uh, extract revenge, which he could have easily wanted to do as a human being on this planet. And he didn't feel that burning it all down was the solution.

He wanted to build it up. Wow. Wow. And he didn't feel that burning it all down was the solution. He wanted to build it up. Wow. Wow. And so for me, those are great and important, significant, substantive examples of leadership that I've had the absolute honor to be able to be witness to firsthand. Wow. That's amazing. What a, what an honor to get. Yeah. Now Shelby Shelby where can we get your book what site is it Amazon where can we buy it so I googled it recently I looked up something to put the hyperlink in and it showed up at Target uh it's at Amazon I think it's at Barnes and Noble the one I go to my go-to is Amazon but you can spread the love around I'm sure that would help with all of our retailers um and there'll be an audio book.

There'll be a Kindle version soon if it's not up already. And it's a hardback book, which is kind of a nice keepsake. The Kindle version is coming up online and the audio book is coming a few weeks from now. Well, this is a great gift for Christmas. Everyone needs to get one. Yes, especially if it's not telling people they need to be civil. That's the big thing, right? It's more like, hey, look, I thought about not telling people they need to be civil. That's the big thing, right? It's more like, hey, look, I thought this was good and I want to do this. Maybe you might

want to talk to me about it and we can have a conversation. It's not about telling other people what to do, but sharing the love. I love it. Now, Shelby, I have last one question. How do you want to be remembered? Oh my gosh. Okay. Should I get the clamped now? See, I'll lose it now. I think I just want to be somebody who was helpful in bringing people together. That's been my love for a long time is connecting people. And this is just one more way to do that. Love it. Oh, I am. Thank you. Now, Shelby, where can they find you? What's your handle and site?

ShelbyScarborough.com or ShelbyJoyScarborough.com. And you'll, that's where you can find me. So it's pretty easy. LinkedIn. LinkedIn. When can we get your joy company, the gift? I want to get them. Yes. You mean the, some of the stuff on the joy journey? Yes. Okay. So, well, my next book is the joy journey, right? So the e-commerce site I'm starting is about everything joy. Because I think that if you don't have joy, it's hard to find civility in the world. And if you don't have civility, it's hard to find joy.

So to me, they're two sides of the same coin. And we'll have lots of fun products that can put a smile on your face and make your joy journey, make your life a joy journey and that are emblematic of that. So that'll be up in about three weeks. I love it. Now, Shelby, I can't wait to hear about your dad's story and hopefully that will be in a movie. Yes. I just had a great conversation about that today. It's my grandfather and his name is Jimmy Mattern and he has a wonderful life story that we're going to get out there so that people will remember the really important things that he did and and keep his place in history alive. Shelby thank you so much it's such an honor having you here. Thank you likewise. Grab the book. Thank you so much. Everyone get one it's this is the perfect

gift for Christmas. Yay civility rules. Civility rules. Thank you so much. And thank you again for opening your home to us. Absolutely. Come back anytime. Bye, Shelby. Thank you. Bye.

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