Founder's Story - Divorce Lawyer Turned Entrepreneur | Ep. 13 with Wendy Jaffe CEO and co-founder of ConejoDeals.com and SimiDeals.com

Episode Date: April 27, 2020

Wendy attended UCLA and McGeorge School of Law. Wendy practiced Entertainment Litigation and Family Law, and has worked for the United States Senate Judiciary Committee in Washington, D.C.In the 1990s, Wendy launched a novelty candy company. Please visit Pix11 or Fox5 San Diego for more details. Our Sponsors:* Check out PrizePicks and use my code FOUNDERS for a great deal: www.prizepicks.com* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: www.rosettastone.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to Inspired by Her, the podcast that will give you the inspiration, motivation and tips for success from some of the top executives, CEOs and influencers from around the globe. With your host, serial entrepreneur and named one of the most influential Filipina in the world, Kate Hancock. talk you know inspired by her podcast and today I have my beautiful four-mate she's a lawyer and founder of Cornejo Deals Wendy Gaffey welcome thank you it's fun to see you I wish I could see you in person but this will be as good as we what we can get. Yes. For anyone who didn't know you, Wendy, can you briefly introduce yourself? Sure. I'll give you my background very briefly. I went to UCLA, then I went to law school. But in my blood, I was always an entrepreneur. I was always that annoying friend who was like, wouldn't this be a great idea if we did this? Or why don't we do this? I was that person, right? So after law school, I did entertainment litigation and family law for five years. And then I just, I had an idea

for business and I quit. Much to my parents' shock and chagrin. And I started a candy company and I knew not one thing about business. I did not grow up in a business family, so I really had to figure it out on my own. Wow, wow. You have to tell me about that candy story where you get all the show. How did you, you pretty much growth hack it, so can you share with us the story? So it's kind of interesting. Now that I know more about business, I see how fortunate I was in that first business because I really started, I think, with $5,000, something like that in my own money. But everyone gave me terms. Everyone loved the idea and gave

me terms. And I really didn't realize how unusual that was for a new business. So the candy company said, pay me for the candy when you can. The person who the candy company said, pay me for the candy when you can, the person who did my packaging said, pay me for the packaging when you can. So I had a lot of help with that. I was also fortunate, we really relied a lot on publicity. This is pre-internet for not to age myself, but the pre-internet days. And so you really, if you had no money, you had to rely on publicity and PR. And so we had a publicity plan, which worked. Wow. Wow. And so, but when you, where did you grow up? So I grew up, I was a Valley girl. Do you remember that song? Valley girl, for sure, for sure. Right. So I grew up in the Valley. But my parents are from the

Midwest. My parents are from Cleveland. So I think a little bit of that Midwest mentality is always, you know, impacted me and affected me. Yeah, in a positive way, I think. Yeah. And I know your, your dad is a lawyer, too, right? Yeah, my dad is a family law attorney he's very well known and really nationally and he's still practicing he's 82 years old and he loves it and he's still doing it he doesn't divorce people like me he divorces like really rich people yeah I know um our I remember our first forum meeting. We were, you know, you were gracious enough to invite us. All right. You were in his office. That's right.

That's beautiful. That's a beautiful painting. And Wendy, what is the best memory of your childhood and the worst? So I would say the best was sixth grade. I was a really shy, quiet, introverted kid. And I was lucky to have a sixth grade teacher named, we all called him Mr. Y. And he really gave me a lot of confidence and brought me out of my shell, I think. And he was really, of course your parents do, but when you have another person see you and recognize your talents or possibilities, it gives you, I think, more

confidence than what your family's already, they have to love you, right? So it was like the outside person. And so I think that gave me a lot of confidence. I actually tried to find him. Wouldn't it be cool if you can go back and thank your old teachers? Yeah. Yeah, I have that one teacher, too. I remember she always, like, gives me, like, snacks, even though we're not supposed to. Like, she just, you know, like, I did search her. And then I think her daughter told me that she died already.

So I'm kind of sad. But I still remember that very good teacher that really motivates you and believes in you right right so I think that had a um that really had a big impact on me looking back the time you don't know but looking back I think that had a big impact on me um and the worst memory is kind of interesting because it really didn't happen so much when I was a kid. Um, I don't know how to explain this. It's, um, my parents were married for a really long time. They were married for 34 years and we had, we thought they had a fine relationship. Like we really thought we were growing up in a Brady bunch type of family. And a week after I got married, my parents told us they were getting divorced after 34 years. And it was a shock of not knowing.

It's sort of like, I can't even really think of analogies. Whatever you thought was real, all of a sudden wasn't real anymore. And you really kind of start looking back and questioning what was really real growing up and in terms of my life and what you what I saw so that was like a wasn't so much my childhood but I think it really was a change from hey I thought my childhood was this and it wasn't really wow wow and that thank you for sharing that and do you did you have any heroes or role model when you were a child? Yes. So, um, you might find this unlikely. Cause I think people look up to actors or actresses and, or politicians and that wasn't my case. Um,

we had uncles that we were really close to great uncles. So my grandfather's brother was a judge and he really probably had the biggest impact of me of anyone. He was just, he walked through the world fearlessly he would go up and talk to anybody he was so um warm and genuine and unfiltered and he lived life every second he lived life like every day was the last day right and i think he had a really big impact on me wow that's beautiful he's still is he still alive no he'd be like over he'd probably be like 100 years old now no but growing up he really was a big part he didn't have his own children so we were part of we were really like grandchildren to him but he was a really big influence on me

and a really big role model yeah wow and when you growing up, do you always wanted to be a lawyer? I don't think I ever really wanted to be a lawyer, to tell you the truth. But I always was interested in the law and I was always interested in things like politics and writing and thinking. And I tend to be a very logical thinker. And so the law really appeals to me in that way, because there's a lot of logic involved. There's a lot of looking at things from various sides. And so I think that really appealed to me. But I think in my heart, I always thought I'd be a lawyer for a short time. And I always thought I would do something else. Wow. Okay. And Wendy um, Wendy, how did you, um,

what was your journey like to get where you are? So my journey was kind of like this. Like every entrepreneur you probably talked to, right? I was saying, it looks like the graph of the stock market today, right? Like, yeah. Um, it was definitely not a straight line by any means one thing I've learned about myself is I kind of have a five-year attention span of doing things so um I was a practice law for five years I had my candy business for five years I did I was a writer pretty much for five years the longest thing we've ever done is the business I'm in now and now I really want to add something else to it because I just feel that itch to do something new wow wow and can you tell me how how did you come up with the name of your company

Conejo do oh actually my brother gets my brother's my business partner, and he gets credit for that. We live in the Conejo Valley, more so he does. And his idea was really to have a Groupon-type business that served a local community. So initially, this was actually kind of interesting because he started this business and kind of dragged me into it. But it turned out to be a great business because there's a philanthropic component to it. So we've given away half a million dollars in 10 years, which is pretty good for a small business. It does the local nonprofits and charities. We've helped launch a lot of businesses like where we live out here. It's really fun to say, oh, we helped launch that restaurant over here. We helped launch that hairstylist we helped launch whatever and we're also like a

matchmaker for the community like we sell tickets to the four seasons like exclusive ticket sellers so it's kind of fun to go to an event at the four seasons and see 2,000 people there who all bought tickets for you so it's kind of fun to have that impact yeah and how long have you had the Cornet Hill deals okay so this week was our 10 year anniversary not crazy Wow Wow Wow and I think I'm not sure I think you shared me at one point that you is that a business partner or an employee that tried to copy your idea yeah so we had a um my brother had an initial business partner um at the beginning um who thought it would be a good idea to copy once we launched copy our website and steal our entire database. My brother and I really, this goes back to the Cleveland Midwest thing, we're just very trusting

and everyone's good and it really never occurred to us that someone would be a shyster really and do that. It was really shocking, honestly. And that was extremely stressful time at the beginning of our business because it was a do or die moment. You know how much Kate you put into your business at the beginning and to have someone betray you like that was horrible and heartbreaking. And what, what ended up happening? So this is where my legal background actually really came in handy and um i will say my law background has really helped me tremendously in business so we really kind of gave him an

ultimatum we gave him his money back and pretty much kicked him out of the business we obviously could have sued him for fraud and a bunch of other things but he had no money so it ended up being one of those things Kate you know with that always happens where something seems awful at the time and turns out to be a blessing in disguise because if you still are a business partner we would never be where we are today so it turned out that even though he did that at the time it felt horrible and tragic and like the end of the world at the end it ended up being the best thing for our business yeah um we had those in the beginning because we're naive we don't know we're just so trusting and i remember

i have this um she was just helping me in packing orders and my mistake was i gave her a company credit card and i kid you not, she was shopping every month using the credit card, $2,500 a month for like eight months. And it took me a while to, um, caught that because she was shopping for me too in grocery. So in my head, she was shopping for the company and myself, I mean, for everything. And it was mixed things. And I was like, oh oh my god like you really learn after that when someone do that to you in the beginning and then you become like very

cautious after that right yeah and actually I guess you're kind of lucky if you get away with $2,500 a month or whatever because you always hear stories about people businesses have people embezzled billions of dollars from them. And it's, and the people, it's people you never think, right? Yes, it's always, yes, it's always. It's always a surprise. It's not like they walk, you know,

you're expecting the person to walk in with the mask and the gun. Then we know that they're the bad guy, right? It's always someone working next to you. Or it's just crazy. And I mean, look how many entrepreneurs you talk to. It's not a, it's not a working next to you or it's just crazy and I mean you look how many entrepreneurs you talk to it's not a it's not a rare story right but everyone has a type of thing like that yeah absolutely so when you what's your typical day like now um COVID day my COVID day my COVID schedule um well my son is home from Boston University. His senior year

is supposed to be in Boston and he's now doing it on the couch in the other room, probably as we speak. So we hang out a lot. But I've been getting to do things. There's some definitely blessings in this whole thing. Like here's like an example. So I happen to live in a really pretty area where there's great hiking trails and we walk and stuff like that. But the walks feel so different now because you're not in a hurry to get back. Right. So you're taking your time. Yeah. So you're taking your time.

You're looking around. You're not feeling like guilty, like, oh, I'm walking, but I've got 10 of the things I have to do. Right. Yeah. So it's such an interesting change. And I don't think it's just me like I've noticed my neighbors right no one's in a rush anymore everyone's waving hi how you doing talking six feet apart looking at each other's dogs and so times really slowed down almost it almost feels like more like when I was a kid where people weren't such a rush to do things um so that's part of it I've really been making a conscious effort to check in on people who I feel like are vulnerable and I've also been trying to like match make I mean you know you do a ton of

that Kate too like try to help people with different connections um so that's been kind of fun and I've had some success with that wow Wow. Wow. So I've been to your house. It's so beautiful. You even text me when you want to go hike. And when you go there up in the hill, you go to the Kardashian place. Do you still hike the same route? So, yeah. So some of our routes have been changed a little bit because they closed some of the things, but the, I live in Bell Canyon.

So some of the Bell Canyon hikes, we're just very lucky to have them. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, um, what do you, what advice would you give to an aspiring entrepreneurs? You know what? I think the best advice is don't listen to other people. Because every single thing I've ever done, every idea I've ever had, I was just met with a bunch of naysayers. Not out of meanness. People who love me, right?

But no one ever thought any of my ideas were any good, really. So I think that's the biggest thing because it's just to go for it and to try it and not be afraid and really not listen to the naysayers. I would almost listen to a naysayer who is another entrepreneur maybe, but I would not listen to anyone who's never been an entrepreneur because those people just look at life differently and live their life more conservatively. So you can imagine, even when I was a lawyer, what was so interesting, Kate, was so many of the lawyers were so jealous of what I did. And they would say, I could never do that. And I'm like, you were, why? Right? You were the exact same as me. And they were just always more comfortable, you know, getting a salary. And my feeling was when I quit, I could have always gone back. Yeah, exactly. And that's what I would say to them.

Like, so if you take two years off, you're going to go, you can go back and be an attorney, but it was very interesting. I don't know if it's the prestige or the stability or the salary or not having enough confidence. I don't know what it is, but that was very interesting. I think how many, these people are obviously all very bright. But, you know, it's a fearless component. And you've had so much of that, Kate, you know. So how would you explain, not that I'm supposed to be interviewing you, but how would you explain, like, where did your fearlessness come from? Because I think of you as so fearless.

Well, I think for me, my, you know, I'm not afraid to take the risk because what do I have to lose? I came from nothing. So I'm just going to try with no, I don't overthink things. I just rely on my gut feeling. Okay. I, but I look at data. Okay. This sounds really good. And I'm feeling really good about it. And I'm going to try a little bit and then it works. And then I put the gas and it works. And that's like, for me, that's just, well, I have no fear of losing because I have nothing to lose. I think that's a big thing for me. So you just feel like if you were back where you started and you were fine when you started and you'll be fine?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had something that you tried that wasn't successful or didn't work out how you thought yeah I oh my god I tried this one the very first one I thought it was it was a good idea I did that experiential marketing and hiring promo person to do events and because I I used to do that and it was so hard because it requires so much um operation and you have to like it it takes so much of your time and you ended up not making any money

no I think that was one thing and then I realized I can do that but that was that was I was trying that while I was baby well my kids are growing up so I can't really do full full blown into running a business I tried but I have no clue what I was, well, my kids are growing up, so I can't really do full, full blown into running a business. I tried, but I have no clue what I was doing. Right. Yeah. Yes.

But it's not until I, I was in a, I was doing different things that I learned as I work and I put things together and combine my knowledge into one. Right. Wow. Right. Yeah. Wow. together and combine my knowledge into one right wow right yeah wow so um where do you think is your entrepreneurial journey from you said your parents are not what was your drive i'm going to ask you you know i hate to because i'm really so curious like with other entrepreneurs like is this something you saw or is it in your DNA? And I think the longer I do this, I think it's something in your DNA, honestly. Because, like, even like my husband is in an

entrepreneurial family. My father-in-law is really entrepreneurial. And my husband, the way his brain works, he's much more linear, right? He's not into the risk-taking. Like if you say, do this, right? Here's the result I want. He will do it, but he's not the entrepreneurial risk taker like my father-in-law is. And then conversely, like in my family, like I would joke, like with my parents, like my parents thought a risky business move was having a CD, right? Like that was like, that's a family I grew up in. Okay. No risk. And everyone in our world, I didn't know one business person. And so actually when I started, my first business was in college. I didn't know what I was doing, but when I started the candy business, I had just gotten married and my father-in-law would ask me

questions like, well, what's your net profit margin? I'm like, I don't know what you're saying, right? Well, what's your overhead absorption? I'm like, I don't even know what that means. I have no idea what you're talking about. So I really didn't, I had no one in that world to look to or to ask to. So I just think it's like the way my brain works, like even with other people's businesses, like I'm just so interested in business and ideas. That's a fun part about me.

Running a business to me is not that fun. Coming up with the ideas is really fun, right? It sounds like my husband. Oh my God. He is an idea man. And so he would come up with different things and I would shut. I'm kind of a little bit mean I have to be better but I was like it doesn't make sense and it's just it's it's amazing how you know you're

in the same household and you think differently and you need to like compromise and figure out to balance you know everything so um yeah so i can imagine if you have a partner that's so uh you know opposite of how you operate that's gonna be very hard right but but some of it like my brother and i is really interesting because here's another example we're only 14 months apart we came from the exact same family. The things I'm good at, he's either bad at or hates doing. And the thing that he's good at, I'm either bad at or hate doing. So it's so interesting that we're two children in the same exact family who grew up literally a year apart that our strengths and weaknesses are so different. And I think in a business partner, that's the one thing I've learned because it's the first time I've had a business partner.

It's so helpful to have somebody who compliments your weaknesses. Yeah. And I think that you really have to like each other is a very important thing. You have to really like that person. That's what I'm hearing now. Yeah, I think, yeah.

And I think the thing we do have in common is we're both super laid back, right? so if you had someone who was like super neurotic all the time and you're laid back that would be really hard to deal with but because we're both you know laid back and calm and no don't yell and that type of thing that part is very complimentary that's it yeah your business partner kate no i can't um my husband helps me his he's he's really good at it he's a good integrator but my fear of having a business partner is like I don't know what it is I'm not that open yet to have a business partner because I think there's probably some some control issue in the back of my head that what if he will buy into my vision or the direction like i need to find that right person that thinks the way

similar to right i know i could probably learn from other people's ideas i'm open with that it's just like when i like this is the direction where i'm going this is what i believe in i'm like really focused to that one and if someone's it's gonna be hard for me and that's the reason why i'm his business partner yeah no that makes sense and actually one thing big to your point uh my brother like i'm technically the ce CEO and my brother hates making the big decisions so my brother if there's anything big he's like you decide you decide you decide so it kind of benefits me because it's that control thing so I maybe it would be tough to have somebody who like really butted heads with you but really wanted things in a different direction you're

right I'd probably have trouble with that yeah Yeah, yeah. And what have been the biggest challenges you've had to overcome? With business or with everything? Yeah, with business. So we talked about the first issue we had with the person stealing the thing. That was a big issue. The biggest issue in my first business,

and I have to be slightly vague about this because I have a non-disclosure agreement, but my first business, I was getting a lot of press. I had incredible momentum. And then I got sued by one of the biggest companies in the world for $20 million. So the facade of the whole thing that people saw because i was literally doing four radio stations uh interviews every morning i was in people magazine i was in the new york times it was just so they saw that part of it the part of it they didn't see was i was literally physically ill from the stress of dealing with this lawsuit. Looking back to your point of not having anything, what did I have? I had like an apartment, rent-controlled apartment

in Santa Monica. I had a car. I mean, realistically, I didn't have 20 million. I didn't have a house. I didn't have anything, any assets at that time that they could really get. But the stress of that lawsuit was incredible. And I really felt very alone in it. I had a law firm representing me, but I knew a lot more about intellectual property law than my law firm did. So it was really, really frustrating. And I think today with that I'm older, I would have handled the whole thing differently. But I was differently but I was young I was like 29 years old um and I didn't really have anyone to kind of help me handle it

or manage it but I should have done at the time looking back I should have insisted with my insurance company that they had a intellectual law firm intellectual property law firm and they didn't but I was not as confident then as I am today today I would insist on it then I was intimidated by a bunch of people who were in their 50s and 60s and telling me what to do wow I can't imagine your 29 year old self going through that I mean it would even freak me out at this time and I'm a little bit more stronger but that's do you think like that have been a really big impact on you as far as decision making and or how you get a handle with crisis um yeah I think it did have a impact I mean one thing that it taught me is um I kind of, I don't want to say cocky, because that's not the right word. I was sort of idealistic. I was in the right. And I sort of thought that idealism would win. And now I'm a little bit more of a realist. Because of that experience.

What is a, what happened to that? It ended up, did you guys settled or what's it? We ended up selling the suit and it was actually kind of interesting because, you know, at the time I told you it was very idealistic and I'm talking to my father, who's a lawyer, like I'm going to the Supreme court. Okay. They're not getting away with this. Okay. The whole thing, right? And my dad dad's like you were settling the case it's not fair you know that was the kind of conversation we were having then and he said they can keep you in court until you're 100 years old okay like this is not a question of right and wrong this is the question of moving out figuring out what's best for you and moving on with your life

which was correct advice but it was really hard to hear and moving on with your life, which was correct advice. But it was really hard to hear because, you know, with your business, you know, I was 50 hours a week, was sweating tears, the whole thing. And then because of the lawsuit, I really lost my kind of energy for the business afterwards. Like even though we were still allowed to operate, it kind of let the wind out of my sails having that experience. So I think all these experiences, though, just make you smarter for the next business, smarter for the next time.

Think through things, how you handle things. So in the long run, they all just add to your arsenal of experience. Yeah, yeah. I've heard a lot of horror stories from several of my friends that's going through lawsuit while running a company and it just drains your bank account. So for me, I'll try before the situation escalates, I'll try as much as possible to settle down because I don't want to go to the next step or the next step because it's not worth my time. And I'm going to be ended up with not having any money just defending yourself yeah yeah and that's actually one of the reasons that i

stopped practicing law is because if you really have um i'm a problem solver and litigation is a horrible way to solve problems because ultimately the person who has the most money could just keep you in court the longest right right? It's really not a fair system in that way in the United States. So it was just kind of ironic that that's why I kind of left the law and then I got sucked back into it for that exact reason in a business context. Wow. So think back to a time that you felt transformed. How did you change and why? So we can talk about this, but when I was in college, I actually started my first little business. And I think having that sense of accomplishment of having an idea and then having an actual product in your hand was probably one of the most transformative

things that ever happened to me. Because from that, I started the candy company. I wrote a book. I started this company with my brother. It gives you that confidence that you could do anything. And I almost feel like, like with kids in school, like I wish they could have that kind of experience of having, even if it's a small idea of them figuring it out, because once you've learned to do that, you feel like you could do anything, right? I mean, I think it's probably a lot of what you have but why you've done so many different things because once you've done it once um it's it's infectious like you're just that high from it there's really nothing like it so yeah i think that high that

that just yeah it keeps you up all night and you don't mind working 24 hours a day because like you really want to fix it like you really want to make it happen yeah yeah i'll tell you really quickly about my first business yeah tell me so um so we were in one of those college tours through europe and there was this product in a little store window that i had never seen in the united states there was a wine bottle and on the outside the wine bottle it was like this cute little it looked like the wine bottle was wearing like a tuxedo okay so you just look over to the front and those are actually kind of common now they're here in the United States but I had never seen it here and so there was like a female one and a male one like this would be such a cute gift for like

sororities and fraternities you know I was in college right to sell to gift stores but at the time again there was no so easy to find stuff on the internet like like so much easier so it was kind of interesting i spoke to a class at um business school leola marymount i told him about the idea i'm like okay so if you had this idea and there was no internet what would you do right and you have no sewing background whatsoever right I can't even sew on a button like I know nothing about that and so they were all completely sunk without the internet how you'd figure that out I thought that was so interesting right yeah yeah um I remember uh when I was in college I would buy stuff I've been like buying products, buy low, sell high. So I've been buying like t-shirts and I would, I would sell it to the employee of my aunt's business and they just

be deducted with their salary. So they have no choice but to pay me back. So it's like monthly deduction and then they'll pay it over time. And then I would buy like used cell phone before there was a Nokia 5110. I would buy used, I'll fix it. And then I would resell it to my family. And I made money through that. Wait, how did you know how to fix it? I will just have someone that knows how to fix it. Yes.

And then I make it look brand new. But then I told them that it was it was refurbished that was the thing and so hey they'll still buy it because it's a 5110 that was one of the strongest phone in 1997 98 i started texting 1998 oh right yeah yeah very yeah very interesting um when you what do you see as your place or purpose in life and how did you come up to that conclusion you know what i think um that's such a big question really but i think it's really being there for the people in my life. I feel like when people in my life like have any kind of crisis moment, they tend to call me because they think I'm super logical and not judgmental. So I've gotten a lot of that for years. But I think I think now like I think I

kind of appreciate I appreciate that because I've really kept long-term friendships. I mean, I really, I don't want to say collect friends because that's not correct. That's not accurate. But people are really important to me. And the people in my life are really important to me. Like, a matter of fact, I just wrote an email. I met somebody on a family vacation from 15 years ago. We were there for one week.

This, I think, actually just started right, yeah, I guess when we had email back then. And we both were readers. We both loved books. So I said, why don't we just like email every once in a while, like if you read a good book or I read a good book and I'll recommend them to you. So this woman and I have been friends now for 15 years, almost all through email. And so we write these really long emails, like every two months to each other about what's going on in our lives. And it's almost like if you went back and

looked at her emails and my emails, it's sort of like a diary of our lives. And she's somebody who I probably talk to talk on the phone every five years or see her in person every five years we have this like almost pen pal relationship but my point being like when I meet somebody who I think is a great interesting good person I love to keep them in my life forever um so that's a long-ed answer to your very short, to very, your very short question. That's, that's really amazing. Um, so when you, what's something you do, even if you've never made any money? I mean, it was so funny.

I'm never driven by money anyhow. Are you? No, I think, no, I think I just want stability and like, I just want to live comfortably. Yeah. But, um, yeah, I think for me, I think like, if I know that company is like really creating impact to a lot of people, then that's my drive. That's my why. But yeah, it wasn't really about the money to me, even though like we all make sure we

can pay our bills and all of that, but it wasn't really the, the money to me even though like we'll make sure we can pay our bills and all of that but it wasn't really the the money that was so so i did i've signed up for two things actually right before covid and then hopefully we'll get to go back to that but um one thing that i'm really kind of passionate about i feel like i was very lucky in my childhood and all the opportunities i had and i feel like my children have also very, very lucky in terms of education they've had access to. And most kids don't have that type of or not as fortunate. So I just signed up actually before COVID happened to tutor kids who are in the foster care system or who are homeless, who don't have any school stability. And my why with that really is, I see how much time and effort I put into my own kids when they were in high school. My daughter has a little bit of ADD and really what it took for her to,

you know, she's doing great now, but to get her in college and to focus was really, really hard. And I thought, what if she was born in a different family, didn't have the time and resources that we did? She would be completely lost. She's super smart, but she probably would have been like a D student, you know, type of thing. And then when you have that experience and your confidence is shattered, and I just picture all these kids out there who don't have that same kind of

opportunity. So I would really like to help them. And I also signed up for something called the Harriet Buhi Center for women who are going through a divorce, who don't have assets for a divorce attorney, to help them through the process. A lot of them are dealing with, you know, abuse at home, verbal or physical, have really nowhere to turn, need help with legal systems. So I signed up for that as well. Wow. Wow. Well, that's wonderful. Well, speaking about ADD, I wasn't diagnosed

until I moved to the US, but when I was in high school, all the way to college, I couldn't focus. And I felt so dumb because nothing really observes in my brain except for like maybe one subject but the rest I feel like I have to work harder or like have to read a book and write everything I would have this notes because nothing observes to my brain and I feel so dumb because how is that my cousin is partying all night and we were classmate in college and I have to do work until midnight and they would come home drunk. And I would cry because why do I have to work harder, but didn't realize I really have bad ADD. Right. So how did you get through that or how'd you figure out how do you deal with it now? I think my first year in college, I failed in math really bad. And my mother told me, if you're going to fail another one, you're going to stop going to college.

She was so rough and not forgiving. And I think that really scares me that I can't have an F and that was the only F. I just have to work harder. Like I have to study more, like 24. I'm not really 24 hours, but I would stay up to 2 a.m. just to, you know, do my work and do things. So do you realize now that you were just smart, but that you just had ADD? You know, I don't know. Okay, so one of my friends in Florida, she actually introduced me,

she told me she has ADD and she said she's taking this medicine. So I went to a doctor and she diagnosed me with ADD and she gave me this Adderall, the smaller milligram. And I feel like after taking that medicine, I've become smarter. smarter I don't know it's probably just in my head but there's something in my head that made me even more creative and connecting the dots or I think or maybe just in my head but being shrewd I think after taking that medicine was like my superpower but I stopped taking it now I I barely take it. But I don't know, something that opened up and or maybe something is simulated or I could be wrong. Yeah. Yeah. But in my head, that's what I still believe in.

No, I think a lot of entrepreneurs have ADD, don't you? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Like we're super interested in something like for a short bit and the second we figure it out then we lose interest in it yeah and then then your focus is in that one thing so that's why it's nice to have people in your life who are who can focus and when you said our integrators right who get like here's the idea like run with it so. So what, what's going to be your next plan? What are you creating something? That's a really good question. So, um, I've been trying to get a children's book

published for a long time, so I'm still working on that. Um, I'm writing a pilot script that I've been working on for a while. And so I've had time with COVID to focus on that. Um, I have a book proposal that I've been working on for a different book that I've always wanted to write. And now's not the right time to do it, but I think that next year would be. And it's really, I won't give you the whole thing, but my book idea is really like when you have a business and you have a business plan and you sort of start with the end. And I think anyone who's listening to this is not an entrepreneur is going to think this is completely crazy, but I can assure you that all entrepreneurs really think about this. When you're an entrepreneur, you think about like, okay,

if this idea takes off, you think of it to the hundredth square power, right, Kate? So it's like complete unbridled optimism, I think, for most entrepreneurs, which I think is great, what drives us, like, we don't really, I don't know how to, am I explaining it correctly? Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, talking about, yes, yeah, when I have my, like, candy business, I would think, think wow if every single person in the world bought this and then they bought it again this is like how you think right it's completely nuts and crazy but that's kind of like how you how you think so anyways my point is when you're a start

of business you kind of have like this end in mind I don't think anyone ever achieves that, but it's great that you have like the BHAG goal in mind, right? And I think when you live your, it's kind of the concept for the next book, when you, most of us live our life like a, like in a pinball machine where we're kind of getting bounced around and we don't have so much say over where we're going or we don't think we do. We just follow where that ball is, is is hit and I think the people who kind of end up who get the a in life or whatever however you want to grade your life are the people who are kind of are not that ball that keeps getting knocked around right um and I think that you do that by seeing what you want the end to look like and then working backwards, almost like a business plan for your life, right? So if you know at the end that you want, it could be something simple, like you want to have 10 great friends, right? And you want to have a close relationship with

your children and your spouse or whatever. And if that's your goal, you start there and then you go backwards but i don't think most of us think of our life that way right i think most of us just kind of wake up that day deal whatever's pressing that moment and don't really think of it with the end in mind so much so that's kind of what my thought is in terms of a next book that's that's oh okay that's yeah that's that's wow okay that's yeah that's so when is that going to be released yeah I'll give you I'll give you a copy um I need to write it first um so we'll see but you know I'm uh I'm in touch with my old agent for my first book so when that's all done and I would pitch it to her and get her thoughts on it yeah what made you decide to write your first book so when that's all done and I would pitch it to her and get her thoughts on it yeah what made you decide to write your first book okay so my first book was called the divorce lawyer's guide to staying married and um I was always super curious like so I so when I had my

candy business I worked for my dad part-time because I obviously needed money was already no money at that time but I was always interested in his cases like why were these people getting divorced and in California you don't have to give a reason it's called the irreconcilable differences you don't necessarily know and my dad used to not know I would say this couple seems great for each other like why are they getting divorced or how do these people ever end up together? Right. So, um, so he wasn't even always sure in a specific situation. And so what I did was I said, can you give me all your contacts for the top lawyers in the country? Um, because I want to see what they think, why their clients are getting divorced. And so that's what I did. I interviewed a hundred of the top divorce lawyers

in the country and just ask them that question and obviously follow-up questions to find out why people are getting divorced because all the books up until that time on marriage had been written by therapists see a different group therapists see therapists see people who are still alive maybe gasping for breath but they're still alive divorce lawyers see people who aren't breathing anymore, right? We're beyond CPR. So you see a different segment. Like the example would be like, if you want to ask people, find out why people died, would you ask a doctor or would you ask a mortician? Exactly. Right? Doctors see most people who live. Morticians see only people who die. Same as divorce lawyers. So that's really why I got super interested in the topic. And then what was really fascinating was I could interview a lawyer from Alabama or an

attorney doing the Manhattan divorces for $1,500 an hour. It's the same stuff. Rich or poor, whatever. It's the same things. And so it was really, really interesting. Yeah. So what did you, um, based on, based on asking all these lawyers, what was the common theme? So there were a few common themes that the, I'll tell you the themes that, um, some people know the common things like money and sex

and different issues like that. But one of the most interesting things to me was what one lawyer told me. She said, every divorce comes down to a failure of expectations. And when she first told me that, I was thinking, you just want to get me off the phone. That's like the worst answer ever, right? But the more I thought about it, the more I think she was right. She's like, what were you expecting when you got married? And one lawyer says something similar. He's like, if you were expecting a high school marching band, you got like an okay okay marriage but you were only expecting a high school marching band right that's great if you were expecting the LA Philharmonic right and you got the high school marching band you're not so happy right so they really talk about like when

you get married so especially people tend to get married young or without experience and you know kids completely changes the whole dynamic of everything right so um houses kids mother-in-laws like you you're in this little bubble when you decide who you're going to marry um so i think that's a lot of it so like some examples would be let's say you were both partiers when you were single and you were both partiers, you're both fun. And then you get married and then you have a kid. Well, suddenly being married to a partier and you have a child to raise, not so great. Right. So your expectations were always like, hey, when we have a kid, we're going to stop partying and we're going to have real jobs and we're going to have a house. Well, if the other person's not on that page, right? Or think of any expectation.

Let's say you married somebody who was a workaholic. Well, maybe your expectation was, oh, as soon as we're married and have kids, they're going to come home and no, you know. So I thought that was kind of an interesting lesson I learned from writing the book. That's actually right. Now that you mentioned that, it is the expectations that majority people stay out of marriage, wanted to be out of marriage. Right.

Like think of your friends who've gotten divorced. You can almost always trace it back. And so like even though something, let's say you say it's money. Yes, it's money, but it's really what you were expecting to happen with that money later right yeah and which is why rich people if it was only money rich people wouldn't get divorced that's true right i'm all the money in the world right so so it's a lot more complicated than people think so for example with money what i learned was and this is actually really relevant today with what's going on with COVID because people's finances finances are going to be like this now

right so people do really well like this even if they're not making a lot of money but it's consistent they do really well with that so that's why after like the dot-com crash what was that now 15 years ago people who live like this and we're fine but then we're living up here and then went back to this tons of divorces because um it was really hard to go back which is sort of ironic and interesting right so people do not do well with this they do much better with this is what I learned. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And yeah, you're right about that, I think. And not only the change of a lot of things, finances, because people will be out of job,

finding or being stuck in a small house in a day to day and that annoys everyone. That's going to be cost a lot of friction to... Oh, it's going to be huge. And I think, you know, another thing that I learned, I think this is going to be similar. I interviewed the lawyers in Florida after one of the hurricanes. She said that people who lost their houses and now got a big check from their insurance company, they looked at their spouse and said, you know what, now we could just take this money and split it, right, and go on our own

ways, like we were, we were probably fine together, and maybe we'd never gotten divorced if we still had the house, but taking away that, and now we have the opposite, interestingly, now we're stuck in our houses, and I think it's going to be a really challenge big challenge for people like I've got some friends who I've got one girlfriend who she worked 100 hours a week and traveled two weeks a year well now all of a sudden she's not working and she's you know with her husband some full time it's a whole different dynamic she's got to deal with so and I think a lot of people are in that boat where their dynamic has just completely changed and shifted. I keep joking to my dad, like, you're going to have so much business, you know, when this

is all over, you're going to have to start setting up times now for people to come in. Right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Cause now you're, you're, you know, like just this morning I was like, don't use my computer. You go downstairs, like don't touch my thing like it's just hard and especially when you're in this situation where you don't really

know what's going on or what's going to happen next and the anxiety even though you know we tried the meditation and get this clarity what's your purpose in life some days you're just not okay like yesterday i was feeling not very good, especially knowing about this loan. We talked about it in the beginning. That's your sense of hope. And now it's gone. Or am I going to get a loan from the government? And I mean, just like, and it changed your attitude about a lot of things, like your emotions and, you know, it't affect everything no it affects i'm saying now we're dealing with everything you're the the stress of being with someone 24 7 which is never easy it's hard enough to be with yourself 24 7 right with someone else and then i think the business

stress that people are feeling the uncertainty and then we're just even when you go outside and see everyone in mass it really i don't think anyone's not freaked out by that right yeah how can you not be so i were just like in a new world that was really thrust on us very suddenly i can't even think of a time where something was thrust on us just suddenly yeah you yeah no i think it's um you know getting myself prepared that everyone, we will be so hesitant and we're such a social human being. I mean, and just in here, we all hug each other every time we, you know what I mean? We're such a hugger and, um, and that's going to change. And it's going to be just the thought of limiting our day-to-day life. It's like mind-boggling to me. I mean, what do you miss the most now that the world's changed?

I think going to a friend's house and getting together is really what I miss the most because that really gives me really great energy of socializing. I mean, we still can socialize via Zoom, but it's still different. Very different. Very different. Yeah. What do you miss the most? I think the same as you, like, I love, I love people watching. Like, I love the energy of just being around a bunch of people. Like I'm a city girl, I think, like I kind of live in the country, which I love, but like, I love going to busy restaurants and shows and concerts. You know, we hear so many speakers in EO going to those kinds of events, having interesting

conversations with random people. Like that's all the, that's why I'm like you, I think in that way, I think that's really what I'm missing the most. And I hope we don't go, what if our normal is not hugging people? Like, I, I think that's like the key to our species, honestly, like we're, we're designed to be with people. Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, and we, we get ideas and creativity of surrounding ourselves with wonderful people and just a laughter of being in a nice table or enjoying a nice meal or talking about you traveling it's i think for me too is the traveling part i'm getting so antsy

oh right the traveling right the traveling is very hard like you know i want to be everywhere but we can't yeah yeah so the last big thing I did before this COVID thing happened was at that Mexico city trip. Yes. Oh my God. And you guys were wearing masks. Which I think we talked you into, but I actually learned a lot from being in Mexico city and their culture.

Their culture is so present and open and warm. Wow. And they're very family-orientedoriented like you go into a restaurant there and unlike here like we're on our phones or we can't wait to get to the next thing people would sit at a restaurant for like two and a half hours it seemed like in Europe right but they don't bring you the check for like three hours right but I really love that where people were just like we're enjoying each other's company um no one's in a rush no one's looking at their phone and i was thinking back then like god that would be so

great if united states was more like that and then we come back here we really we really go to like no contact right and so even a little bit that we had but i think that everyone's going to be like really appreciating the in-person experiences um and the people in their world and being more present I think that will hopefully be a blessing after all this is over wow wow so how was the food while you were there the food yeah amazing really oh my god I know it's so different than I pictured it was it was like literally going to Europe and it's four hours from i pictured it was it was like literally going to europe and it's four hours from here it was incredible wow wow we'll go we'll go together when uh next time it's all over yes yes i've been wanting to go i'm supposed to go with you but i think it was

like the the you know the i was already quarantined at that time when you guys were traveling. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, I started early. Wow. I started very early. I've already been quarantined during our retreat. Because did I mention it to you that I was already dealing this issue in the Philippines? No. Yeah, I think I, like, I had to, I have to deal with it at night I was on a call because I have to move guests um the health officials are like they're removing my guests

because they have travel history so I was already dealing with that at the time I was already stressed at the um in Palm Springs. Wow. Yeah. So tell me what's going on in the Philippines. Like, what do you see their life being there? Because we have a lot of affluence in the United States. I feel like there's probably a lot of people there who were just really living, you know, hand to mouth, right? Yeah, yeah.

It's very difficult. It is very difficult. A lot of people are hungry. And I mean, they're getting support from the government, but some of the city or island, they are very strict that one person is allowed to do grocery. It's only one person that is allowed to go to grocery and they are on a schedule when you can go to grocery.

So that's really disrupt disrupting people's lives but you understand why they're doing that but what about people that doesn't really have the money to eat three times a day which majority of people are so that's a difficult task to solve that's a difficult problem to solve well for sure yeah yeah well Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I mentioned, I have my aunt, I think she's fully recovered now. She had a coronavirus and she's a nurse in New York. Oh, wow. Tell me about that. Yeah. She was telling me how, um, how it's so difficult if you really don't have the courage to really fight. And I asked her, what is, I mean,

she said she already got the H1N1 in the past, but this is even 10 times worse. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard to believe because we don't really know anyone's close to us that really go through the not just a mild case but the hard case but she was just staying

in her apartment because she's scared to go to the hospital because she's seen all that she works in the trauma center so she saw what's happening there so she's just staying in self-medicating at home and she said that at one point she was just crawling to cook her own soup just to get strength because imagine like the body ache is so painful it feels like someone is destroying rocks in your back that's how it feels like it scares me wow that's amazing yeah every time i would go to the grocery store and i get this psychosomatic reaction like oh my god my heart is like did you did that does that ever happen to you like is there something wrong with

my lungs like i feel like you've all become hypochondriacs right i was actually like sick the other day and i was like i had like a headache and sore throat and i'm like oh yeah you actually can be sick but not have this there's like other things that you could be sick with or if you sneeze or whatever i think everyone's like that right yeah I think we have the like I might have already coronavirus long time ago yeah oh my god so uh Wendy how do you want to be remembered I think I really want to be remembered as a um good daughter wife wife, mother, and friend. Wow. That's wonderful. I can talk to you forever. I'm having so much fun.

Are you having fun? Yes. We should do this every day. We should do this every day. I got so much today. Thank you for sharing all those tips and your books and your ideas. I learned so much. So thank you so much for sharing. So I really relate to you because I think that we both love new ideas.

Uh-huh. Right? And get us built from that. And I really respect it. Let's say you're Elon Musk, right? Or you're Steve Jobs and you're building Apple. I could have never done that because once I built the first thing, I'd be like, okay, this is boring. Now what else?

So you have the people who build these giant companies and have that kind of focus long term for years and years are really, I think, incredible. But I really relate to you because I think we're just like, wouldn't it be cool to try this? You know, I think we're kind of in that mindset, which I love. So it's fun. You know, sometimes too, when I travel or like i would go to philippines or europe and i see things like what you're seeing like oh this never exists in the u.s and i need to like knock my head like okay stop thinking this

another opportunity i see opportunity everywhere like okay stop just focus on what you're doing now and do that next time yeah so i think it's a i think that's a blessing and curse of being an idea person right it's fun to have all those ideas but it's also a curse because it's really hard to focus on one thing so absolutely yeah well thank you so much wendy when you work and they find you what's your handle find me on facebook i'm not very active on twitter or instagram but i have instagram accounts i think i gave you all the contact information. So Instagram is just, I don't know how I just Wendy Jaffe. I don't know how I, one of my kids must have signed me up early on. There's no way I could have gotten such an easy name. And then, um, and then Facebook also just Wendy Jaffe. So, well, thank you so much. It's

so refreshing and I enjoyed so much in this conversation and we can do it again. Thanks. Bye. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe and visit katehancock.com so you don't miss out on the next episode.