Founder's Story - Empowering Intellect Over Labor: Syed Hussain on SHIZA’s Decentralized AI Revolution | S2 Ep. 158

Episode Date: December 14, 2024

In this episode of Founder's Story, we sit down with Syed Hussain, the visionary Founder & CEO of SHIZA (Shared Human Intellect Zonal Agents), a company at the forefront of agentic AI. Hussain shares how his early entrepreneurial spark—as a resourceful kid in India—laid the foundation for a career in technology and data-driven innovation. He offers unique insights into the impending shift away from labor-driven economies toward intellect-driven models powered by personal AI agents. As Syed explains, the future might not be about working more hours, but about owning and monetizing your intellect and data through agentic AI solutions. Get ready to explore what it means to “own your AI before AI owns you.”Early Entrepreneurial Roots:How Hussain’s first venture at age eight—renting out comic books—ignited his passion for solving real problems in creative ways.Transitioning from small entrepreneurial endeavors to technology consulting and eventually building his own tech-focused companies.Embracing Emerging Technologies:Hussain’s journey from early web technologies and data analytics to diving into big data, blockchain, and now AI.The moment ChatGPT and GPT-3 opened his eyes to the immense possibilities and cost efficiencies of AI-driven infrastructure.Agentic AI Explained:Understanding agentic AI as chains of AI agents (or processes) working together to execute tasks autonomously.Why these solutions go beyond chatbots: AI agents can handle complex multi-step tasks and feed results into one another, reducing human workload.Shaping a Post-Labor Economy:The shift away from traditional labor: as tasks and jobs become automated by AI agents, how do humans create value?Hussain’s vision of “individualized learning models” (ILMs) let you own your data and intellect and then monetize it.The importance of decentralization and Web3 in ensuring individuals maintain control and profit from their data and personal AI agents.Opportunities and Challenges:How younger generations, less tied to a 40-hour work model, may embrace this technology more readily.Potential pitfalls: the risk of repeating past mistakes where large corporations harvest and profit from personal data.Hussain’s call to action: “Own your AI before AI owns you.”The Future of SHIZA:Building the infrastructure for a decentralized, agentic AI ecosystem.Creating digital intellect marketplaces where individuals can share and monetize their unique knowledge and experience.Positioning Shiza.ai as the hub for these agentic solutions, shaping a collaborative, globally connected web of human and AI intellect.Actionable Takeaways:Start thinking about how emerging AI solutions can handle repetitive tasks, freeing you to focus on creativity and strategy.Consider how your personal data and unique life experiences could be assets in a future driven by intellectual property rather than labor.Stay informed about developments in agentic AI, Web3, and decentralized platforms to protect and capitalize on your digital footprint.Connect with Syed Hussain & SHIZA:Website & Waitlist: https://shiza.ai/Twitter: @SerialTechX (Syed Hussain’s handle)Join the waitlist on Shiza.ai for early access and updates.Our Sponsors:* Check out Indeed: https://indeed.com/FOUNDERSSTORY* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: https://www.rosettastone.com* Check out Vanta and use my code FOUNDERS for a great deal: https://www.vanta.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome back to Founder's Story. Today we have Said Hussain who is the founder and CEO of Shiza and Shiza is doing something very unique. This whole agentic AI, all these things, I mean the world is moving so fast and you and I had an incredible hour plus conversation just around how we see the future. Why did you even get into entrepreneurship and why did you start

this company? Yeah great question. There's probably a simple answer to this and the simple answer of why I got into it is because I'm mentally challenged and I'm just a sick person to want to put myself through this and put the rest of my family through this as well. So for anyone that's an aspiring entrepreneur, the first thing I will tell you that it's very very glamorous, it's very very sexy from the outside in, from the inside out, it's an absolute nightmare especially if the woods that are gonna be affected by it are your closest ones. So if you're crazy enough to convince them that this is the

path we want to embark upon, then certainly entrepreneurship is for you. So just to just to sort of lay the lay the groundwork there for you, for you, Dan, how I decided to get into it was, you know, I've always been fascinated. I've always been intrigued by the world of entrepreneurship and the world for entrepreneurship. My first foray into it came at the ripe, at the ripe old age of eight years old when I was actually in India at that time. And the way that I got into it was it was just, you know, for me, it was just being entrepreneur was just finding a solution to a problem that people had and people really didn't realize that the problem was.

So just coming up with novel solutions around it. So what I did was I was big into comic books and the only way that you could sort of, there was no concept of collecting comic books in India and people, the only option you had was to buy a comic book. But people would, those comics were episodic. So every month there would be a new episode that would come out and I was totally into it.

And I was like, me and my friends were like, oh, can't wait for the next episode of these comics to come out. And what we ended up doing was we would just buy the comic, read it, and then after you're done reading it, it's like, okay, you chuck it for the next episode to come the following month. And then something hit me where I'm like,

well, instead of me sort of just buying it myself, what if I were to buy it and allow people to come in and just read it for a fraction of the cost that they would pay to actually buy it. And that was sort of my first entry into the world of entrepreneurship where I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool. Oh, I'm actually pretty good at this stuff, right?

So what started off as a comic book rental eventually ended up becoming a, a cafe where I just started to open things up and people are like, are coming in and out and utilizing it. And as a result of it, I ended up getting the most value from it as a kid that you can get, which is what popularity points. And I was, I was the man at that point. And who doesn't like, you know, being a, being an eight year oldold kid who doesn't like being the man when you have to pay people or try to convince them to stop calling you boy, right? So for me, that was sort of the first foray into it. And then fast forward, we get into the mid to late 90s. And that's when this whole dot com boom

was starting to come about. And that's where I started reading and really understanding more and more about technology and the power of this thing called the internet, which was essentially just connected computers with one another and giving people access to be able to share the data from within it and get that out to the outside world.

So I started off with the web 1.0 era, excuse me, I started off in the web one dot era. And that's at that point was where I collaborated with a family friend of ours who got into he was working for IBM at that time. And I said to him, I said, look, what you're trying to build out here, we could do this for smaller businesses. So let's do it that way. That's how I started to get into the real world. And that was sort of my entry into the world of technology.

And from there just got heavy into the data side. So started off on the network side, then I got into the data side from data warehousing to ETL, to business intelligence, to geospatial analytics to advanced analytics, and then to the world of big data. Eventually finding my world into the world of Web3 and blockchain, I started getting into that. And then from there, we started to realize

with this explosion in data solutions, this thing called GPT 3.0, when that first came out, at that point was when we were like, okay, we want to build out this predictive analytics engine. But the cost for doing so was significant. But then when GPT 3.0 came in, that's where I decided to start playing with it. And before we knew it, we were able to build out essentially agentic solutions as a result of it. And then at that point was when I realized that this, there was going to be just an explosion

in terms of these agentic solutions that are gonna be coming about. What is that going to lead? What are the second order and third order effects of this going to be? And based off of that was essentially what the concept and the premise of shared human intellect zonal agents or shiza.ai was born out of.

You know the funny thing, it doesn't matter how successful someone becomes, you can always trace it back to when they were a kid. You could ask anyone like what is the first product that you sold right or you resold. It's really funny, I think like every entrepreneur has a story of when they were a child they were reselling something. The entrepreneurship, I feel like you're almost born with these traits, and then as those traits, then you realize that translates really well into business. But I was listening to a recent interview with Eric Schmidt from the previous Google CEO,

and he mentioned just how groundbreaking it was, even for them, when Chat GBT came out. How did you feel going back to the days of when you started using a GBT-3 and when you started using this tool, what was going through your mind? What were you thinking about in terms of what this could change for the future?

You know, what's funny is when I was running my previous company, we had actually heard of this thing, this company called OpenAI, and they had just opened up for access to their platform. So I had signed up pretty early on onto their wait list. But it wasn't until ChatGPT 3 came out that I started to actually get exposure to the API. The story behind why I decided to play with ChatGPT 3.0 is that, again, in my previous venture, one of the things that we were looking to build out was we were looking to build out this deal

recommendation engine. And in order to build that deal recommendation engine, I knew that the the cost of infrastructure was so significant that we had in turn in on our roadmap We had put it all the way towards when we get to our series a or series B because of the cost that would be required for it, but when when GPT 3 auto came out all of a sudden that infrastructure cost, we didn't have to worry about it because here they were providing all the infrastructure was already provided to them and they were giving you, essentially it was just the cost of inference, right, to be able to use and to be able to build on top of.

So really what we did was we, the first product that we started to build, that I started to play with, where I saw the real value of it, was essentially a GPT wrapper, right? We took that API, we built on top of it. But what I started to realize was two things. One is that this is going to be one of many that are going to be coming out, so where everyone is talking about GPT, with chat GPT, chat GPT, everyone was talking about that. talking about with chat tp, chat tp, everyone was talking about that. I knew that these transformer-based LLMs that were coming out, they were going to end up getting commoditized. So this was a very, very early thesis that we had where I was saying that LLMs are going to end up getting commoditized. So if they end up getting commoditized and people have access to it, that's

going to give rise to this birth of agentic solutions. And if that happens, what are, let's not worry about today, what everyone is building, but what are the second order effects of this are going to be, like I said earlier. And to me, it was immediately I saw that this is going to allow for the automation of processes. These automation of processes would lead

to the automation of tasks. And then the automation of those tasks would ultimately lead to the automation of jobs. So if that automation of jobs is, is it's for me, it was, it's not a matter of, if it's a matter of when and that when was going to happen very, very rapidly. And if that's going to happen, then we need to have some sort of an infrastructure to plan for that, right? We start thinking about a world which is going to be a post labor economy. That's a, that's going to be coming up. And in order to do that, how do we start focusing, shifting our minds away from

being labor driven to being more, um, more intellect driven. And that was essentially for, for me, that was the, the, the light bulb moment where I was like, holy shit, it's coming. And instead of, instead of us having to worry about it, you know, 10, 15 years from now and sort of trying to reel it back and thinking from a reactive perspective, it makes a lot more sense to be proactive and take a proactive approach to it. And that was essentially where this,

this whole notion around what it is that we're building came about. Yeah, and I find it interesting, right? Because everyone's talking about the future of work, agentic AI. These are topics that obviously are going to impact future generations. But when I think about a lot of younger people, like Gen Z, Alpha, I don't think they want to work a lot.

I don't think they want to work 40 hours a week, 50 hours a week, hustle and grind. It seems they want this balance of being able to enjoy life, travel, dance on TikTok. They don't want to sit in an office, I don't think, and work 24-7. You have all of these things happening at the same time. You have generations who I think will be more embracing because it's probably hard for you and I to even imagine a world where we're not working 40, 50, 60 hours a week. We're not grinding because that's how we've been built.

How do you see future generations taking up with agentic AI and the solutions that you're bringing? So I think there's going to be... There's two aspects to this, right? There is going to be, look, I mean, what I'm about to say, it's nothing revealing. This happens with any sort of a technology revolution, right? Which is there's going to be a very small portion of the populace that's going to actually leverage this to their advantage and end up becoming the next sort of, you know, where they would use technology to become the next millionaires

and then with the next generation, they would end up becoming the next sort of billionaires. In our generation, we're starting to see the next set of trillionaires that are going to be coming in. So you're always going to have a small populace of the overall population that are going to end up becoming that. But the vast majority are going to leverage it. They're going to consume it. And it, look, it sucks to say it,

but the vast majority of people are lazy. That's just who they are, right? And I know it's not the politically correct thing to say, but it is the truth and the truth hurts. So the vast majority of people are going to end up utilizing this technology and it's going to end up making them even less productive than they are from an individual productivity perspective. But the consumption of the technology is going to increase. Right. So my point is that the vast majority of people are going to use the technology, not for not from an entrepreneurial perspective, not from how they can build it up, but because

it's convenient, right. And it will be absolutely the next set of technologies that are going to come in there. They're absolutely going to become technologies that are going to make things a lot easier for people. But then there's also going to be negative second order effects of that, right? And we're seeing that with take a look at like your mobile phones, take a look at what social media has done to people, right? Take a look at what all of these things have done. I don't see AI as any different than that, right? It's just going to create a new set of novel problems for people, what those specific problems are. I am not smart enough to anticipate what those are,

but I can just take a look at what history has told us and those patterns aren't gonna go away. So a friend of mine who has been a few decades leveraging AI and he's pretty advanced when it comes to voice AI. He was telling me a story recently where his company solved a problem and when he asked these really smart people how it was done, they said it just happened. They didn't even know they couldn't tell you exactly how it solved itself. How do you see AI as we continue to advance and as it advances on its own?

Look, there's going to be some, you're always going to hear those kinds of, you know, crazy stories. But then the reality also is that AI is a lot easier to figure out these kinds of things than a human being, right? So the real novelty of this is if I were to say, if I were to associate that to a human being and said, well, how did you just come up with this idea? How did you come up with this creative concept, right? How do you explain something like a Steve Jobs, right? And then people will try to do, you know, all kinds of analysis and psychoanalysis and sociological analysis on them and try to figure that part out. Figuring out human creativity and human problem solving is astronomically more difficult than figuring out a machine. So when you're friends and when people talk about these things, these things sound great for a story and it creates this fear amongst people like, holy shit, we can't figure out.

But the reality is if you do enough analysis, there's absolutely a way for you to be able to figure out because at the end of the day, it's all about the data, which is what these things run off of. So I think these things, you know, these are great sort of media headlines for people to think about and for people to highlight. But the reality is that these kinds of things are easily, you know, if you put look, the reality is if you assign an AI to figure out how an AI thought of that's a lot easier to do than if you were to put a human behind it to do it. The point is the human is the one that created it. So it's a lot easier to be able to figure out machine based tasks and machine based creativity than it is to figure out human creativity.

So I, you know, I certainly am not one of those who was like, oh, you know, um, how did a machine figure that out? And I don't know what it is. You just haven't had enough time. You haven't put in enough time to be able to figure that out. But if you put enough time into it, there's a very easy way for you to be able to do so. I love how AI can analyze things on the next level that we can't even imagine. The fact that AI can possibly figure out how to talk to animals or figure out your dreams that you had and analyze the brain.

And because I think we don't really understand much about the brain, as we probably should. Right. The fact that they can figure all these things out, create drugs that we probably need in the future to solve maybe cancer or something. I mean, it's, it seems an incredible future. I can't wait but let's talk about agentic AI. I think there's people that many people have no idea what that even means. Can you explain that? Sure so the way that I like to explain to people is it's an agent, an AI agent for those who are sort

of the technical nerds here, the easiest way I can explain it is think of it as a demon, not D-E-M-O-N, which is what the vast majority of the world thinks AI is going to end up becoming, but D-A-E-M-O-N, which is essentially a process. So think of it as being able to execute a single process. So if you can create something simple enough and you're passing a command to be able to say, okay, do this specific task, this is what you're responsible for. That's essentially what an AI agent is able to do is it handles a specific task. Then what you're doing is you're combining that agent with another agent that can take

the output of the previous agent as an input and then take the task to another level. So what you end up having is you end up having this chain of agents or the swarm of agents that's able to do one task and followed by another that's being taken in as the input for that. So it's intelligence being built on top of additional intelligence. So you end up having the swarm of agents that does the assigned work. And then of course, then you can have that particular swarm, the output of that becoming the input of another swarm.

And that's essentially what an agentic system ends up becoming. Right. So we have, if, if anyone who's a coder, if anyone that's actually developed code, right? That's what we do. We formulate these rays and we start to package them together. What AI is able to do, the beauty of AI

is it's able to automate all of those. And instead of a human being being at the backend to create it, you're providing it with a set of rules. And then what it's doing is it understands in that because of advances in NLP, it's able to understand what it's going to be doing. And then it also has to its advantage. And this is the beauty of LLMs

is that it has to its advantage. It's sitting on top of human-based solutions captured from all kinds of public data that it's also learning from and it's continuing to enhance that. So, agentic solutions are really, they're essentially, it's where all of these processes are coming together, intelligence-based processes that are coming together, being packed together. This Christmas, why not give the gift that truly lasts a lifetime? Imagine helping your loved ones connect with the world, explore cultures, and grow personally, all with the gift of language.

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hyper focused and very good at that one task. And then it gets to another task. I mean, we all need that in business. We all really need that. Right. What is the future of Shiza? I know you explained what you're doing, what you're working on, but how, you know, when you look a few years out, how do you see this company transforming? Oh, boy. OK, so look, we have a very, very grand vision for where things are going. Right. My background and the majority of my team, right. We're all capital markets, guys. So that's the background that we come from.

And we're really. The way that we're looking at this is not from where things stand today, but where things are going to end up going. And as we start to think about, you heard my definition of agents and agentic solutions, and you can very, very quickly start to see that as these things start to, if you have these agentic solutions that have been created, then they're essentially going to end up replacing existing processes, which to my earlier point is going to lead to the replacement of tasks, which ultimately, a collection of all of these tasks is ultimately what people's jobs are, right?

What we're assigned to do. So if that happens and that will happen, if that happens, or sorry, when that happens, what does that mean for people like you and I, right, who are regular humans and who earn our value? And how do we derive our value? So for the vast majority of the existence of humanity, how we've derived our value has been labor driven, right? So it's been based on our output, right? So the, and that output is what we're compensated for. That output has been in some form of labor, whether it's physical labor, whether it's creative labor,

whether it's intellectual labor, whatever you wanna call it, nevertheless, it's always been in the form of labor. Well, if that labor itself, the output of that labor is replaced by these agents, by these agentic solutions. Well, how the hell are we going to earn our value? How are we making money? Especially if these agents are owned by these centralized entities, right? We spoke about open AI, there's others, you know, Gemini, Google, Microsoft, all

these companies that are there, right? That own their own LLMs, that people's, all these companies that are there, right, that own their own LLMs, that peoples, that these agentic solutions are being built on top of, they're consuming all of your data, right? And we certainly don't want to make the mistake that we made with Web 2.0, with the, within social media, where people were just giving away their data, only to realize a lot later on, by the time it was too late, that holy shit, these other companies are monetizing all of my data. my data well fine you could do that with that one mistake made we certainly don't want that to happen with with with your

own AI agents which are going to be running around in the billions right so if that's the case then it becomes very very crucial for me that labor that's going to be replaced for what is being replaced by is owned by me. I'm the one that owns it. And this is why our slogan with Shiza is own your AI before AI owns you. So what we're doing is we are utilizing Web3 Rails, right, with decentralization and distributed technologies. We're utilizing those Web3 Rails to be able to provide people with AI agents that they themselves will own. And there's a couple of moving parts to this.

The first part is that what we're doing is you want to capture the human experience, but that human experience that you're capturing, it shouldn't be a part of a large language model that's centrally owned. Instead, what it should be is it should be owned by you, the individual, and should be novel yours. It should be owned plainly and simply by you. No one should have access to it, including the builders behind it, like a Shizza 3 example. So this is where we're introducing the concept. We're shifting away from large language models to individualized learning models or an ILM, where you will own it only all of your experiences are being captured by it and if anyone else wants

to have access to it that you are the only one that can give access to certain components of it what we call these intellects these custom knowledge stores off of your the entirety of your data right that you that you have so what we're envisioning then is a future in which these intellects that you have, right, will then be shared by others. People will have access to it and every single person that has access to that intellect, you as the individual who owns it, are being have the ability to be able to monetize off of it. So this is how we're seeing, how we're envisioning the shift of a future economy as we start to move away from a labor-based economy into an intellect-driven economy where you have all of these digital intellects that people will be able to share off of, that people will be able to monetize

off of, and what Shiza, what we're doing is we're laying the infrastructure and we're building that out for this post-labor economy. And the future is bright. I'm excited. I think we've learned from mistakes in the past. We just freely give out basically priceless data. We've just given it out.

And now, you know, it's the ability to take some control hopefully. So I can't wait. If people want to get in touch with you, they want to find out more information. They want to see how they can be a part of Shiza. How can they do so? Well, the best way to do it is, as of right now, our waitlist is open.

So go onto shiza.ai, S-H-I-Z-A dot AI and sign up for our waitlist. You can, or you can find me on Twitter, you can catch me on LinkedIn, on Twitter, it's SerialTechX, S-E-R-I-A-L, Tech X-ed. Find me on Twitter. And like I said, the best way to do this is sign up. Sign up on our wait list.

I look at it every single day. Yes, I do look at it. And if you're interested in getting involved in some capacity, the feature is, in your own words, Dan, the future is very, very bright and we can't wait for you to be a part of this with us. Sayid, thank you so much for joining us. Shiza.ai, Agents.ai, billions of Agents.ai

is gonna be everywhere in the future and you don't wanna not be a part of it. So I appreciate your time today on Founder's Story. Thank you, brother. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with the sportsbook Born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk, and authorized gaming partner of the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook

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