From $1,000 to $300M: The Wild Story of How Dan Novaes Raised $60M Without a Single VC | Ep 274 with Dan Novaes Founder of Mode Mobile
00:04Dan, always great to one, have another Dan on the show. And I appreciate that we share. One commonthing that we share is the name. I don't share the success that you've had. It's incredible.Like mode mobile. You and I've been talking for like many a months, which is amazing. And I've beenfollowing along and watching even before that because crowdfunding, I've always been fascinatedwith even how crowdfunding works.And you've built a company now valued over 300 million.Going back to when you were 15 years old with $1,000,did you ever think this would be where you'd be right now?
00:44Yeah, if you asked my 15-year-old self,probably would have been like,why didn't you do this by the time you were 18?But, no, I think, like, it's been an amazing journey,and it's not, as you do it, you notice, like, how hard.these things are. It seems really easy when you're a kid and anything is possible,but then we actually go and do it and then learn that scaling is way different than justlike, I would say, you know, hot slang and like kind of your one-to-one entrepreneurial stuff,
01:14like scaling is really, really difficult. And so, yeah, I mean, we've been superexcited and blessed, I think, over the last few years to, you know, kind of get to where we are nowand it hasn't been without the trials and tribulations for sure. So what have some of those beensince you've been scaling, what is something that you didn't expect to happen that you justboom, hit the wall? Like you said, entrepreneurship is so damn hard for many people.Yeah, I mean, I think that that zero to one is really difficult. And I think that there's like,there's a really interesting formula that happens. It's kind of like sometimes you do somethingand it just hits. Like, you know, it comes out. And I've, I've,
01:58I've probably had that happen two or three times in my life where it just hits in a way that you just can't explain.It's just like you hit product market fit.And there's been times where that could be sustainable long time.Other times like it might be a fad.It might be a bright point in time.Like, you know, and you want to continue growing that.But I think the times that, you know, really teach you as an entrepreneur, the times where it's like, you know,you get to a certain level, maybe you had that initial product market fit. And then once you hit,
02:33like, say, a million dollars or you hit, you know, 30 people, things change. Like, your way,the way that you are as an entrepreneur needs to change. And if you don't adapt, typically it'll fadeaway or you'll stagnate. And because the industry is constantly changing. And you have to be reallyversatile and be able to pivot. So for us in particular, I'll give you an example of that,you know, like where I was like, man, entrepreneurship's hard. Even after you see grades, it'sis like, you know, for mode in 2019, we came with the concept of mode after so many differentpivots, to be honest with you. And I thought, I was like actually very sick of pivoting.And we had these, all these like little mini successes along the way. And we kind of had this
03:15app studio model. And, you know, I really just wanted to work on something that was sustainable interms of could be very large scale, have a big impact. And then we built this entire product,spent like a year and a half on it. And like no one was using it.And then I was like, wow, what a waste of my time?You know what I mean?But then we had this like one cohort of people that was using it.And so we learned about that.And turns out they were like a bunch of conscious users that didn't want to pay for music streaming.
03:40And so we eventually focused them on that.We're like, well, what if we paid you for that?And then they were like really a shit.And so we put like a fake paywall that was, or not a paywall, but like a sign up.That was like, hey, we're going to launch this.Like if you're interested.And we had like 250,000 people sign up.So that was like an example of like product market fit that someone wants.
03:58that. But then we were like trying to actually make money off that and it was so hard because themusic streaming happens in the background and we have to make money and like where do you pull the moneyfrom? Like it's it's very difficult. And then that ultimately led to us then moving into things like gamingand news and all these other things that people do on the phone. And that started to work really well,especially during the COVID kind of like lockdowns or people are like at home. And we had thatCOVID growth. Like, you know, some businesses like shattered during COVID. Digital businessesthrived. And then it was a low interest rate environment. We had advertisers that's like literallyhanding us money like, you know, hand over fist. And it was great times. Like, you know, and in 2022,
04:40the very beginning of 2022, it seemed like the world was like unstoppable for like tech companies.Everyone's going public. You know, valuations are extremely inflated, zero rate interestenvironment. And all the while, Mode had seen this crazy growth from like effectively $100,000in revenue in 2019 or so, like just under, to well over $25 million in 24 months, right?And you grow and you scale and you hire a bunch of people.And then the bottom fell, like all of these advertisers, the FTXs and Voyagers, which Voyagerwas our biggest client at the time.And all these like FinTechs, you know, capitulated, right?
05:19And then suddenly you're basically in a very difficult situation because now we're notgetting paid for advertising that we thought was coming in. We have 100 people on our payroll.And that, you know, over almost killed the business, you know, because essentially, you know,you would need to then make very fast decisions. And ultimately, that led to us building a muchstronger company. But it was a year or two of pain that we had to basically, you know,have a lot more discipline on how we ran the business, like, how long were we willing towait for payback periods? And ultimately is what got us into crowdfunding, which, you know,you had talked about here, which has been extremely successful for us. And so I think like a lesson,
05:57you know, to just go back to answer your question, like a lesson of entrepreneurship is even ifyou hit great success, like without question, headwinds will surely come your way. And then thoseheadwinds will seem so drastic, especially when the more you scale. And then for us, I thinkthose difficult times actually created some of the best things that I'm most excited about now.because if you asked me in 2022, I felt like I was like, dude, like, why is this happening to me?You know, 2022, 23 was like a really difficult time.And I thought like, you know, it was like, no, like this might kill the company.And then, you know, it was like sheer will and then pivoting and then, you know, being able to kind of get to the next stage.
06:38And eventually, you know, it unlocked this completely different world to us.And a lot of things that are going well in our business now or because of that discipline or because of that like way.of thinking. And now I feel like the companies in like the strongest position it's ever been. And we'reseeing that crazy growth again. And so I think that that's just the story of it. You know, you kind of have tohave the mindset for it. But you're not going to lie. Like there was like two or three months ofdarkness there for sure that you had to get through. You know, read a lot of gratitude books, you know,during that time and kind of developed a lot of like more mindfulness practice of kind of how tothink about things, which in itself like allows you to grow up. And that was helpful.
07:16Yeah. It's amazing how you could be flying high.and then boom, it's like somebody just smacks you in the face,your ground just falls off from underneath you.And you're just like,how did I go from being,you know,top of the world to being like bottom of the bottom?And that's like business and entrepreneurship.
07:35That's like the definition, right?And then you go back up.And it's fascinating that you're saying during those times,though,you learn.I think I've been there where I focused a lot of my business on one thing,but that also stopped me from doing,other things I should have been doing because I was comfortable with the revenue I was making.
07:53And when that revenue stopped, I realized, oh, crap, I should have actually been diversifying,doing other things. But I want to go back to the crowdfunding. I remember maybe 10 some odd years ago,crowdfunding was like the thing. I remember it was like the thing. Like everyone's going onRepublic and all these sites. I feel like it kind of like ebbs and flows. But you, I mean,over $60 million raised is insane. I don't even know.one that's raised like maybe more than $2 million.So what was that like the journey of getting here and the fact that it's not comingfrom like two or three, four investors?
08:29You know, you're talking like what could be thousands of people.Yeah, I mean, to be, yeah, to be, yeah, we have over 57,000 shareholders in our business.So quite a significant.Yeah.And I like, you know, we, the way to think about it for us, I think there's two types ofcrowdfunding companies. There's like the kind of startup, like super startups, like a really smallseat stage, you know, they're going to raise a couple hundred K or a million bucks, two million bucks.And then there's like kind of what I was called like moonshop businesses. And moot shop businesses
09:01tend to be able to actually raise at really high, like a really high amount of capital.It's very few companies. We're talking about less than like maybe 10 a year that can kind of like,like new ones at least. And then there's a growing pool of maybe like 20 or 30 issuers that can dothat. And typically it's like these very big ideas or companies that have just like reallypassionate followings. So an example is like newsmax like, you know, really big audience thatreally loves what they do in terms of conservative news and whatnot. If you're conservative,like you want to invest in Newsmax and then they IPOed, right? They sold out $75 million in fivedays. So with the exception of Newsmax, this year, mode is one of the biggest crowd funds,
09:42crowd funders in America, right? Because we sold out our $75 million, you know, raise. And that'sinclusive of some bonus shares that we did. But, you know, I think that anytime that you'reable to tap into the retail audience and, you know, see, hey, do people believe in what you believe?And if you're a good marketer, you can align value. And I think the best public companies are the onesthat have great financials. And then also have that kind of like, you know, not so like a cult in a bad way,but like a cult-like following, right?An ambassarship.And so I had examples of that in like,
10:16that art craft funding companies is like Tesla.Like Elon Musk is very polarizing,but the guy has a crazy following.You even see other companies like,you know,like,like Berkshire Hathaway.Like Warren Buffett is one of the greatest
10:27of best at all time.But he literally sells out a stadium,you know?He's not like, you know,a musician, right?The guy, people go to Omaha to go to his conference.You even add like funnier kind of examples,like GameStop, right?
10:39Like, you know, that company literally was likethe meme central. And again, that goes back to having a follower base. And so anytime peoplebelieve in kind of like your mission and then you can have good financials behind it, I thinkit's a great candidate for crowd funding. But yeah, you have to be willing to be a marketer andkind of like think about like how you're going to talk to your audience, like your investorupdates. Like we do webinars. You know, before we got on the call here, like, you know, we haveamazing guests that come on ours, you know, like for our audience, you know, like,Steve Wozniak, the founder of Apple, we give like earnings calls.
11:15Like even though we're not a publicly traded company yet, we do earnings calls for ourinvestor base and we'll have five or 10,000 people log into this stuff and we'll raiseseveral millions of dollars from those updates. And so you have to be like thinking in that way.And for us, I look at it as like kind of like the training wheels of being like a publicly tradedcompany because that's my ultimate goal is to kind of get to that point. And this is like meplaying like in the you know the like my college ball you know what i mean before i you know we go intothat afo you know so that's kind of like how you know we think about and i've approached it well i'm sureone day you will ipo i mean no doubt about that i see that you're a part of yPO and how has
11:58organizations like yPO i've been involved with eo for a long time how have you seen theseorganizations and by the way everyone i know in yPO is like they have the best parties likeThey're incredible parties and hanging out.So one day, that's my goal.It's the one day get to IPO.But how has that impacted you?Yeah, I mean, I've always been really, I've always made the investment to either be a part of masterminds or certain groups.Even when I sometimes didn't even add the capital to do it, like when it was like a stretch.
12:32And I would always kind of look at it as like, this might not work out.but I had an example one time where I spent $20,000 in a donation and maybe I think my entirenet worth of time was like maybe 100.So I mean, it's significant.But I knew that people that were going to that were all like ultra high net worth like angelinvestors.And it was going to be a really small group.And I was going to be the youngest guy there.
12:58So I was like, okay, maybe it'll turn into like this like thing where I would be able to findsome mentors and maybe some people invest.And I ended up raising like 300K from that trip.And so it was a great ROI, you know what I mean in that sense. But was it a risk? I didn't know I was going to do that. But nonetheless, I think like, you know, your proximity is power. And at the end of the day, if you find other entrepreneurs, other people that have that same kind of mindset, it's going to rub off on you. And you're ultimately going to learn a lot. And I think the things like specifically with YPO organizations like that is, you know, you're finding a space of other founders and other business owners that are dealing with a lot.lot of the same stuff that you are. Like, I can't always go just to, you know, my friends orother people that aren't in the same position as me, that same type of like, you know,hey, have you dealt with, you know, adding to independent board members to your board? Have youdealt with, like, what do you think about your liquidity or like how did not get screwed by,
13:53you know, like an investor of some, in some mechanic? So I think like there's all these thingsthat those networks give you. But ultimately, it also unlocks a bunch of accents.because typically these are people that are well-to-do and, you know, think in the same way as you,and that'll open up doors in many places in other parts of your life. That could be in leisure partsof your life. That could be open up in capital parts of your life. It could be like, you know,how to get a lower interest rate on your mortgage. Like, it could be anything like that. And so for me,like, it's been an extremely valuable organization. And, you know, I have a lot of friends in EOand Dicchio is also an excellent organization, you know, for any entrepreneur that's doing,
14:33I believe over a million dollars a years is their criteria.But if you can get into YPO, I definitely would recommend joining your owncourse chapter and you're going to meet a lot of great people.So my final question for you is in 60 seconds or less, what is one lesson learning that you'vehad in business?Like it could be, you know, have an attorney for this or it could be, you know, make sure thatyou, like you said, have a mentor that can explain to you.do X, Y, Z. Is there any one lesson that you've learned that's really quick, simple?
15:08Really quick and simple. Yeah, I think, well, I think I gave one, so I'll give another one.That was just, that's something that I've put into my schedule. I think when you're running yourbusiness, you're always working in the business, or most people work in the business, as opposedto working like on the business. And typically that involves like kind of operational nonsense thatyou're kind of doing. And they don't leave enough time for like thinking, like just strategiclevel thinking. It sounds so simple. Like it really does. But like, I just see people just kind of likeautomate on automation mode. It's almost like an AI, like an agent. It's like not really thinkingvery intelligently. And for me, like I have found that there's like two times where I do a lot of deep
15:56thinking. But to set them out on my schedule. So I float every week, for example.So I float in a flow tank.And it's just complete darkness and silence.And I can really think like very deeply at a different level because all my other senses are being shut out.And then I do a lot like when I run or go on walks and I do a lot of those, we give a day.And those have literally unlocked tens of millions of dollars worth of ideas, worth of business opportunities, worth of problem solving.I honestly cannot, you know, tell you the ROI that I've gotten from just having this something so simple, I just put into my calendar.You're right. We're not thinking. We're reacting. That's the problem, right? We're reacting to everything
16:37around us. This happens. That happens. We're always caught in the reaction mode versus the stop. It reminds me of the E-myth book, that old book. It was like a baker goes into it to bake, but realizes she has to do 50 other things and then is miserable and can't really focus on the business because she's doing so many different things and tasks and learning. But you're right. We're so, we're too reactionary without.really thinking, but I'm glad you brought that up. I want to try floating one day. That is definitelyon my list to try. I've heard great things about floating. But Dan, if people want to get in touchwith you, how can they do so? Yeah, I mean, they could reach out to me. My email's Dan at modemobile.com or, you know, my email LinkedIn or Twitter, the device on score. A.Dan at Mode Mobile. But Mode Mobile, I've been following along for many, many years. I've actuallyhave been in the wireless industry, mobile industry since 2002.And so when I saw Mode Mobile back when you first started, I'm like, wow, this is a very,
17:36very unique and fascinating in the mobile space.And I'm glad that you've had the success we had.Can't wait.When you ring that bell, I want to go and visit you.When you ring that bell so I can help cheer you on.But Dan, this has been a great conversation.And thanks for joining us today on Founder's Story.Thanks for having me, man.
17:54Appreciate it.
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