Founder's Story - How Trauma Built KIND to a $5B Exit | Ep. 398 with Daniel Lubetzky Founder of KIND Snacks

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

Daniel Robbins interviews Daniel Lubetzky on what shaped his obsession with bridging divides and building mission driven brands. Daniel explains how his father’s Holocaust survival created a survival instinct that later became entrepreneurship, and how early failures taught him the reps he needed before KIND. They dive into the psychology of founders, separating self worth from the pursuit of excellence, and the hidden ingredient behind KIND’s rise: a product people loved and a culture with ownership, transparency, and no politics. Key Discussion Points Daniel Lubetzky explains why he believes kindness itself has not changed, but social media anonymity has weakened eye to eye human connection and made dehumanization easier. He shares how he approaches Shark Tank with empathy first, letting founders pitch uninterrupted, then asking tough questions, because trying is already a win and failure is part of the odds. Daniel talks about his ADHD mind, constant idea streams, and why early formative experiences, like magic and language learning, became business skills later. He reveals a deeply personal driver: as a child of a Holocaust survivor, he learned languages and skills as a survival instinct so he would be useful, not expendable. On KIND’s rocket ship, he credits the right product at the right time, a brand that stood for something real, and a culture where everyone acted like an owner with high transparency. Daniel explains the “AND” mindset, most people think in OR, but breakthroughs come from rejecting false tradeoffs and designing for both sides of the equation. He warns that raising kids in comfort can kill the fire to build, and argues we must teach agency and protagonist thinking, not rigid victim or oppressor labels. Daniel shares what scares him most: toxic polarization, dehumanization, and algorithms that profit from division, which is why he champions the Builders movement. He gives a simple Builder framework: curiosity, compassion, creativity, and courage, and defines builders as people who unite rather than divide. He closes with a key founder lesson: separate your self worth from your quest to be great, because the pursuit can be ruthless if it becomes your identity. Takeaways Trying is winning, because each venture increases your odds and builds your skill, even when the first attempts fail. KIND’s success was not only marketing, it was product obsession, relentless hustle, and a culture built on ownership and transparency. If you want to build something new, stop copying existing categories and look for the unsolved problem behind a false OR, then design an AND. Your mindset must protect your mental health: separate self worth from performance so failure becomes feedback, not identity collapse. The most important choice in a polarized world is whether you become a builder or a destroyer, and the builder tools are the four Cs. Closing Thoughts This episode is a masterclass in founder psychology and modern leadership, delivered by someone who built a category defining brand while staying obsessed with humanity. Daniel Lubetzky’s story proves that fear can either consume you or drive you to create safety, purpose, and impact. His final challenge is simple: choose to build, practice the four Cs, and never let your quest for greatness turn into self hatred. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If you have a product, one out of ten people like it and you start promoting it, you're actually going to lose money. Whereas if you improve the product and five out of ten like it, it might be good. And if you further improve it at nine out of ten people like it, then at that time you've got a goal when you want to start promoting it. All of us entrepreneurs are eager to run, and sometimes you need to slow down before you run. Khybar is everywhere.

Just like my first 10 years were much tougher than I realized. The next thing used were frictionless. We're growing triple-digit growth on average on revenue growth. One of the best trajectories I've ever seen from in any sector of any company. What was your secret sauce that created this rocket? Daniel, I have an insight to share with you that I haven't shared with anybody else. So, Daniel, I was telling my mom today that you were coming on the show. And she's like, I love Kind Bar.

Like, I eat Kind Bar. And then I was like, Mom, be kind and rewind. And she's like, did he make that phrase? Like, no, Mom. I'm like it was like on Blockbuster DVDs. But yeah, but sorry, go ahead. Daniel. You can tell that your mom has great taste because she likes cameras,

but more important she named you Daniel. You are my Tokayo. Do you know what that means? I don't even know what that means. I like the sound of it. A Tokayo means a namesake where you're named Daniel. I named Daniel. But it doesn't fully explain it because Tokayo,

for Mexicans and I think for all Hispanics, the word Tokayu is more than just a namesake. It's almost like this spirit. connection where you and I are bonded because your name is Daniel and I'm Daniel. So now you have to give me a hundred bucks just because, no, I'm just joking. No, but just because you know is Daniel. I just zeld it over to you. So it's waiting for you.

I like that. Tocano. Tocano. No, Tacano means your chipsteaks. Oh, wow. Tocayo. Tocayo. You stumbled to a other very interesting word.

Tacano. Tacano means someone that doesn't, like, like. like a chip steak. It wouldn't be selling the $100 if I was tocaño. I know, you're not a taconio. You have my tocaio. Wow. No one has ever said that to me, Daniel.

I do, there is, you know the funny thing is I did look up people that have my exact name and I connected them on social media. Daniel Rollins, the whole thing? The whole thing. I thought it'd be funny.

Like, if there's like a bunch of us and I just send them messages like, hey, hey, Daniel Robbins. And they're just, I think they're like weird. They're freaked out. They're like, what is this guy I want?

You know what's sad about that is like in society, not all of us are scared. Like I go on airplanes still today and hand out kind bars. And a lot of people are like, this guy must be a serial killer. Like what, who is this weirdo? Because people are understandably protective. I mean, with all social media.

So I would enter you, Daniel Rollins chat. I would change. That would be fun. You know what? Why don't we just do Daniels? I did see there was a group that does like Chris's or something. Like it's like everyone with the first name. I think we should do a Daniel's meetup.

So it's like anyone with the name Daniel because that could be, you know the funny thing is when I used to work in an area where it was majority Hispanic people and they used to ask me. They thought I was, yeah, they'd be like, oh, you speak Spanish. So I eventually I had to just learn Spanish. Like I learned the caon. Now I know more, but. I'm rusty. I haven't used. This is like 20-some-odd years ago. Since you look back, I mean,

kind was so long ago. It was just yesterday. I mean, when you started kind, it was a bit ago. It was a bit a couple days ago. And do you think that kindness has changed since then? When you started this, and you said, I'm going to name my brand, kind. Do you think kindness has changed? Well, it's a great question. I think the essence of kindness is transgenerational. and I think the essence of every human being and what we have inside and how we can connect and look at each other's eyes and it's discovered each other's warmth

has gone through history and will continue tomorrow. I do think that with the advent of social media and all this online anonymity, it introduces problems for society that we have not yet learned how to conquer a lot of kids on their devices. I was talking to a principal. I went for the first time in 40 years to my high school.

And the principal told me that a lot of the kids have problems, they don't look at each other's eyes. They're just looking at their devices. Just that skill is very important, let alone to use those eyes to connect with each other's soul. And I do think there's a big opportunity for all of us to really re-engage as humans. But I think the essence is still there.

How is it when you think of, When you're on Shark Tank and somebody comes on, do you think about this when they try to make that like eye-to-eye connection with you versus like, is it like in a first few seconds when somebody walks out there before they even release get going? Is there like a connection that has been like a human-to-human connection? It depends on the entrepreneur. I very much, very consciously want to make that connection because it takes so much got to walk that. that aisle. Be prepared to be grilled by five people. And so I do ask tough questions, but I start by trying to connect with them and let put them at ease. And all sharks do that. Certainly, Lori does that. Kevin, I think even Kevin, but I want them to feel comfortable

because they're in for some tough questions. So at the very beginning, you let them do their pitch without interruption. And when they finish the pitch, then you unleash what I call the Mexican Inquisition with a lot of questions. But yes, I do try to connect with them. And there was just on the finale that just happened, do you call it finale when the final episode, the season finale, I think it's called. There was a moment where a woman was really, she started shedding some tears and it really hit me.

And I stood up to give her my handkerchief because I just felt for her. And even though I didn't think that her specific business idea was going to be investable or succeed a lot, I really admire her courage to try things out because the thing about entrepreneurs is it takes so much courage, Daniel, to just try it out. You're already won by trying it out. In my opinion, I really firmly believe that, that somebody has the guts to, they have something in their heart, they believe it, and they take the initiative to actually bring it about, that's incredible, that that's worthy of respect. And most entrepreneurs in the first venture

fail. It's only in the second or third venture that you start having an increased chance. 90% of first-time ventures fail. But if it's a second round entrepreneur, the success rate goes from 10% to 20%. That's still 80% failure, but that's double the chances that you're going to win. And if you go through the third one, it's 30%. This is the data. You triple your chances. So the more you try and get off the saddle from the horse and dust it off. I, by the way, I mangled all of my expressions because I was born in Mexico. So I hope I'm not mangling these ones. But the more that you get off the horse and dust it off and get back on the horse, I think the more chances that you have of figuring it out. And of course, you don't want to fail.

but you want to be comfortable trying things out and learning from them so you can get stronger. Don't worry. I wrangle expressions all the time. I just keep on going. So when you first sat down in that chair on that chair, couch, whatever, I don't know, it's like a couch chair. And you realize like, wow, I'm on shark tank. I'm a shark. But all the things that had to get there to that moment, did it hit you?

Yes, in many ways. First of all, I love Shark Tank. I had discovered it and I enjoyed watching and sharing it with my kids. So when I was invited to be on it, I was super excited and super honored and energized. I have severe ADHD. So even right now when you are talking, there's a billion ideas going through my mind. How do I just wrong? Would I go?

Like, all the ideas are fighting with each other. It's my turn. No, and they're speaking Spanish, Hebrew, English, Japanese. There's like a lot going on in here. So for me, I need to try to stay focused and to, and to, not a good. The other thing that happens on Shark Tank. And so, yes, it's bringing back all of my memories. You were talking earlier about Kind's been so long.

My relationship of who I am is very connected to my early years. My Peace Works used it 10 years before I launched Kind where I made a lot of mistakes, but they taught me a lot and helped me become who I became. and the early years of kind are very, very present in my life and in my mind. And a lot of times when I'm in Shark Tank, on Shark Tank, I'm channeling a lot of those lessons because it's those early lessons that matter a ton. Of course, I grew the company to billions of dollars. And I also have many lessons from that entire journey because I was a one-person operation

and I became, I stayed a CEO all the way until I built a $5, $7 billion company. but the lessons to grow from $1 billion to $5 billion are not as applicable on the tag. The early lessons are ridiculously applicable. So I connect to those a little bit more. I've had so many failures. So I think I'm on like, I was on like failure eight. So I had an 80% chance of success.

When you look back to kind, where was the moment where you were like, this is a rocket ship? This is destined. to be a unicorn. I never thought about the word unicorn, but the way that I relate to it, Daniel, is you're going up little hills,

and then as you go those hills or those mountains, then you can look higher. So I thought kind could become a $10 million company. I thought we had that potential. And remember, 10 years before Peace Works, I leave my legal career as a Wall Street lawyer, lawyer, not really well, sir, but I got a law career, and I have the potential to do so many things, and I decide to start selling sundried tomato spreads made by Israelis, Palestinians,

Jordanians, Egyptians, and Turks trading with one another with the aptly branded name, Moshe Pupik, Annalimish Mumkins, world famous, all-natural gourmet foods. I still don't know why it didn't work out. but I'm peddling those products literally door by door letting people force-feeding the buyers to try my Sondretemur spread with with a one-day-old baguettes. And I draw so many lessons from that journey. And now when I'm building kind, I have a lot of that perspective of learning from a lot of those experiences. I heard that you love magic. I love magic.

I love magic. I love magic too. Do you think that translated, like these things? Because I remember when I love magic, but I also love doing monologues. And I feel like my monologues, when I was like a kid, I would just act in these stupid monologues. I became doing monologues for sales in like an enterprise level later on in my life. Do you feel like magic for you was like that thing that it really translated into the business environment? Without any doubt.

And Daniel, I have an insight to share with you that I haven't shared with anybody else. Yes, magic taught me a ton and it teaches you how to look at people's eyes, how people think, how to get their attention to command the presence. And what is fascinating to me is that those early experiences really turn into who you become. The common thread with everybody is that those early moments when you were writing your monologues made you into who you became. But what's interesting is it actually matters less what that is, whether it was my magic or your moloogs. It just matters that you try things out, that you push yourself, that you get those reps in. And whether you're in the basketball court or whatever your passion is, try things out, go for it, go for it, go for it. Those things are teaching you far more than you realize.

And you will see the world through that prism. So it really does matter. but those early formative influences stay with you and give you a sense of the world and of your skills. And so what's important is that whoever's watching your thing, just try shit out. Just give it a shot. Just try it out.

I love that. And I'm like obsessed with mentalists because I don't get like, I can't understand how they do it, Daniel. I'm like, I don't get it. Like they, it's so mind-blowing to me. I think I've heard that you're like a mentalist too. When we had a closing dinner, we sold a controlling stake. I only sold kind fully my final shares a year ago, a year and a half ago, a little less than that.

But when I sold the first steak, we had a closing dinner where the bankers and the lawyers invite us for dinner to celebrate the transaction. and I held a dinner where I did a 30-minute mentalism show. And Baron Trott, who's a very good friend of mine, who was our banker, freaked out. He was convinced that I actually got into his brain. And he was like, how the hell? Now I understand why he was such a good negotiator because he was inside my brain.

He got so freaking, I'm like, Baron, chill. But now every year at his annual conference, he brings a mentalist to, because it is, it's fun. It's interesting. I love that. I know that you're obsessed with the product. And we had other founders on, like the founder of Pretamanger, and he said the same thing that he was obsessed, maniacally obsessed with the product. So I can tell that you're obsessed with the product. Do you feel, though, that nowadays people's obsession is more about virality than the actual product? Because I hear this a lot, like, I'm obsessed with the marketing. and I make like a basic product. It seems like...

It depends on who you're talking to and whether they know what they're doing because I was talking to my son who's starting his own business and you don't want to start promoting your product and distribution until you've perfected that mouse job. All of us entrepreneurs are eager to run and sometimes you need to slow down before you run.

Like you need to just really figure out the product because think about it, Daniel. if you have a product and one out of 10 people like it and you start promoting it, you're actually going to lose money. Whereas if you improve the product and 5 out of 10 like it, it might be good. And if you further improve it at 9 out of 10 people like it, then at that time you've got a goal and you want to start promoting it then. So focusing on virality instead of focusing on perfecting the product is a sure way to lose

unless virality is your product. And then, of course, but in most cases, you have a product or service that you need to really, really improve before you try to promote it. You said in the beginning about the failure rate is so high, like 90% failure rate on the first time. And it slightly goes up from there. And I'm not sure if everyone is cut out for the grit that is needed, like you said, to be knocking down doors and doing anything that was possible. what moment during Kind for you was that moment where you were like this is it, I'm done with this company.

Where I thought I was giving up and not trying? Yeah. It was just like everything was collapsing or something happened where you're just like this, I'm, like I'm gonna go get a call. Kind did not have that. My 10 years before I had that where I kept with Moshepupica and La Museum's World Fames

was all natural with my foods and making that mistake and thousands of mistakes and thousands of things I tried. Like every time like, oh my God, I also try this. When I'm on Shark, I'm like, oh, my God. I remember I also trade this skincare product and I also tried to be a consultant, the Middle East trade. And I also tried, there's so many things I tried that didn't work out.

And during the pieces, it was two steps forward, two steps back. But I learned those lessons. And by the time we launched kind, we almost didn't try. We almost gave up because I was exhausted and we had one big setback and we almost closed the shop. I'm not making this up. We had a meeting with six people where we said,

do we try this one last time? But once we tried it, it just took off and kind, just grew, just like my first 10 years were much tougher than I realized. The next thing years were almost like, you know, frictionless.

They were growing at, triple-digit growth on average, on revenue growth, cash flow possibly and profitably. We were a jugger. It's one of the best trajectories I've ever seen from in any sector of any company. And we just benefited from all of those mistakes. So once kind lunch, it was more like hold on to your seats.

And we made mistakes and we learned lessons and there were difficult. But there was no, there's no quitting. Why would you quit that thing is like growing, growing and growing? What was the secret sauce? What was your secret sauce? Do you think that created this rocket? it. Well, first of all, luck is very important. If any entrepreneurs starts getting so cocky to think that they're invincible, let them do it twice. Because if it's hard to do it once, the amount of people

are in starting de novo from scratch and done more than two highly successful businesses in different sectors, very hard to accomplish. It's very, very hard. So there's an element of good fortune that we need to acknowledge. I think first and foremost, the product was the right product at the right time because there was no healthy snacking sector when I came up with Kind. And I was looking for something that would solve a problem that I had, which is I was walking around the streets of Manhattan and traveling all over the world, selling my earlier products, my Peace Rocks products. And I was looking for a healthy snack that I could feel good about that was wholesome and convenient.

So Kind was the right product. You just saw it and you telegraphed and you tried it and it was both delicious and healthful. So the product was amazing. I think the brand really, really capture something very special. And the culture that we created, the more that I look back and my team members look back, the more realize we created an incredible culture. Everybody was an owner.

Everybody had a stake. Everybody was, we had a lot of transparency. We were a high-performing culture. There was no hallway politics. There was everybody was focused on together. pursuing the mission and we worked towards each other. We had each other's back. We had a lot of fun. We worked really hard. We were committed to excellence. And I mean, it's just an incredible team that we brought together to do that. Man, you were a pioneer. I was just at Expo West recently,

which is, you know, all the CPG brands. And I asked so many people, what problem are they solving? And they all told me that they're creating a bar that solved the exact problem that you solved, you know, a bit ago. I think you talk about creating this whole industry. It's incredible. Do you think, though, that, like, is it, you think it'd be hard to replicate that now just based on the massive amount of competition

that's going into CPG? Well, you'd need to do something else because trying to do what others did is a recipe to just be a meat to, at best, mediocrity. You have to rethink the world. and say what doesn't exist? What's a problem that hasn't been solved? So, Canada already solved that problem by definition,

and since kind to your point, there's so many other healthy snacks with all the different functions. So if I was trying to launch a new product in that space, I would try to identify what truly doesn't exist that the consumer really needs. It's very hard. It's very hard to identify what doesn't exist,

let alone that people actually want. because sometimes you come up with something doesn't exist but nobody wants it. So you need to really make sure. Only we want it, but nobody else wants it. Yeah. So you have to figure that out. You have to think outside the box

and really will yourself into coming to something or something new. You know, AI is amazing. But if you ask it to design a product for you, it's just going to look at everything in combo pattern. What's amazing about our brains is our ability to think out side the box and go boundlessly. And that's what we need to train ourselves to do. That's what I want to train my kids to do.

That's where the real value comes to think about something that hasn't existed. And that means challenging conventional wisdoms isolating. What are the assumptions that lead me to think that you can't do it differently? Very often times, people think with or it needs to be this or that. Identify an assumption that proves to be a. false assumption where people think it has to be this or that and introduce and into your mind. Okay, this is a problem looking for. This is how it is right now.

What is the or underlying it? And the or says, oh, it has to be this or that. Can I think with ant? Can I introduce a way to make it healthy and tasty by using nutritionally dense ingredients? Can I make it wholesome and convenient, socially impactful and economically sustainable? What is your end and how do you tackle the ad? How do you creatively think and start thinking, what is the ad? How do I do it with the ad?

And it might take you days, weeks, months, or years. But if you unlock how to go from ore to end and come up with a product or service that people want that does things better, that's where the real opportunity lies. So I know that you grew up in Mexico City. you're the son of a Holocaust survivor who only had a third grade education as far as I've heard do you think this made you destined to succeed or did it create a fear that you might fail?

Amazing question, Daniel. I think, first of all, watching my dad definitely taught me so much about entrepreneurship without me realizing it. Like I wasn't, oh, let me become an entrepreneur. I was just observing him.

And I learned a lot from him, a lot through osmosis, maybe through epigenetics. I don't know. Being the child of a Holocaust survivor gives you an existentialist fear that is very, very real. And if you're able to channel those fears to construct your things, you can do a lot of good things with it. So I couldn't put myself to sleep when I was 12 years old. My dad started talking to me about what he went through, I was nine and by 12, I was fearful about what he went through and about it happening again. And initially, through questions about magic, I started dreaming that I was going to be a magician

with actual magical powers to force people to get along. That was how I, that's where I dreamt. And part of why I love magic, I imagine the world where magic was going to help me bring people together. But then eventually entrepreneurship became my tool, but more broad. broadly as a child of a Holocaust survivor, I wanted to develop skills so that in the case of a war, in the case of a difficult circumstance, I would be not expendable. They wouldn't kill me because only 1% of people my dad's age survived the Holocaust. You know, he was taken from to a Dadaja concentration camp and my grandfather lied about my dad's age and he said, even though he was 12 and a half, he said he was 15 and a half. So they would let him work. in the labor camp rather than kill. And most they didn't have used for weak kids

and they just killed them. And so I learned languages and magic and entrepreneurship and all sorts of skills that reconnecting the dots, I think was partly a survival instinct. I also enjoy it. I enjoy people. I enjoy languages.

I enjoy magic. But I think there was something there also connected to my quest to survive. So in that sense, think it helped me. I don't think anybody's asked me that question that way, Daniel, so I was thinking through it with you. I mean, that's, I mean, what an incredible experience for you to share something that was obviously the worst possible situation any human could go through, but for you to be able to learn from something. And then I can tell that, I can tell not only

are you kind, but your love for people. I think you and I have a lot in common. You and I, we do have a lot in common. I feel like I'm the same. I feel like I'm the same way. Like learning about people and cultures and travel and the love for people. I'm curious about AI though. Before you were, I just need to say, compared to my dad, it's nothing because Daniel, he went through the Holocaust. I only heard about it. He went through it.

He was treated with so much darkness for his formative years, from nine years of age till 17. Well, he was liberated by American soldiers when he was 15 and a half. And then he was in a hospital and a refugee camp. And then he came to Mexico with nothing. And he built himself from nothing into a very successful entrepreneur, educating himself, spoken language, and lived his life with kindness in spite of what he went through. So, you know, he's the inspiration for me.

But let's go to AI. Well, no, let's, okay, before we go to AI, Do you think that generations of entrepreneurs are built differently because of the thing? It's way different, right? What people have to go through now than like what you're saying. Like people that had to go through things then are probably going to be different than what generations have to go through now. And I would have to say having children in their late teens to early 20s, you know, we've done everything to give them a great life and shelter them away from the things that let's say I had. to go through or you or obviously your father had to go through. So do you think that their desire

for entrepreneurship and their desire for even like like what is a job to them or what is making money to them? Do you think it's very different? So first of all, societally, you go through different ages and it is fascinating how architecture and entrepreneurship and medicine and all of these things are interconnected because of the atmosphere of what's going on. So you look at the Renaissance, you look at today, you look at the culture really does inform and give shape to so much more than we realize. So that's beyond my pay grade or years. Like there's only so much we can do.

But we as parents, when we succeed, you use the word shelter. We have the instinct to protect our children and to just give them everything. And the hard thing to do is to preserve in them the fire for them to want to take initiative, to create a sense of scarcity so that they have to make choices, to create a challenge for them to want to fight for something, for them to understand the meaning that comes from the creative process, the meaning that comes from doing your own thing. And it's very, very, very, very darn hard.

It really is more likely that we will fail at it. that will succeed. And in a culture of surplus, whether it's the British kingdom or the United States today, when you have so much surplus, particularly for those that succeed, how do you keep that fire in the next generation for them to fight to take society to a higher level, and the higher level doesn't just mean making more money, but bringing more kindness, bringing more light, bringing more being a builder that drills together, a better. world for all of us. How do you get people the incentive to want to be part of being an actor and a protagonist? Because in today's generation, for 20 plus years, our kids have been told

that they have to be victims, that they have to be oppressors, that they have to be this rigid frameworks. And those frameworks are horrible because if you're a victim, you cannot be a protagonist in your own life. You're just going to live like a victim. And think about that mentality, how dangerous it is to train people to think of themselves as victim. It's so stupid. Or you're an oppressor. No matter what you do, you were born, this, that, or that, and now you're an oppressor. Just a terrible framework. A much better framework for us to teach your children, choose what you're going to be. Be a builder rather than destroyer. A builder wakes up in the morning things. How can I build together? How can I unite society? How can I bring

light to the world? How can I elevate and build something that's good rather than a destroyer that spends the time dividing, demolishing, and diminishing one another and denying the humanity of the other side. So, unfortunately, I had to use four Ds to divide the D from the Daniel, but we want to teach our kids that they have a choice to be protagonist to bring good to their own lives and to the world. And a lot of times in society, we're being programmed and trying to think that we have no agency and that the problems are bigger that we think.

think. But from what I found, and if you look at the different things I've done, it's not just entrepreneurship. I help build a movement of Israelis and Palestinians to propel politicians to resolve the conflict, being part of the Builders movement. We have far more agency and power than we realize it. We just need to decide that we're going to recognize our power and our responsibility that comes with that power to do something about it. What scares you? A lot, a lot. I have nightmares regularly. I'm a very positive actor, but my brain worries a lot, presumably because of my, what happened to my dad, but also perhaps because I'm a confused Mexican Jew, and I just am worried about everything.

I worry about everything. And so what I do is I channel that to do something good about it. So division scares me, dehumanization scares me, all the forces contributing to toxic polarization to suspecting that the other side is evil, to be trained that you're right and they're wrong. So what I'm doing through the builder's movement is trying to help people understand how to think with more nuance and to understand that if you want to be a builder, whether you want to build kind bars or a better world, you need to approach the world with four C's curiosity, compassion, creativity, and courage. If you approach the world with those

four Cs, you can build kind, you can build bridges, you can build schools, you can build the better community by having the curiosity to think, I don't have all the answers. Let me learn about the other side. Let me learn and then start working towards solving the problems. Having the compassion to understand that the other side is also human and trying to put yourself in the other shoes so you can negotiate and solve problems. Having the creativity to think outside the box and come up with new ideas, think with that, and having the courage to just go and do it. Yeah, when I think about what you're saying. So when I was a young teenager, I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder. And part of that is I can't shut the thoughts off in my head. Same thing like you said. There's so

many thoughts. And a lot of it is tied around fears. And obviously I've spent, you know, 30 some odd years bettering myself and getting over things and not having labels and such. But sometimes I can't help it. I'd say it was hard for me because when things get kind of chaos, I start to fall backwards. But luckily, my wife always talks me off the ledge and she always is there for me to tell me, like, there's nothing to fear. So I'm really enjoying what you're saying, though.

And I really love what you said and the fact that you're comfortable being vulnerable. For all of your listeners, I want them to understand, every human being goes through the variation of that. Every human being feels vulnerable. Every human being gets hurt. for me it happens on a daily basis where I feel insecure about something, where I feel like I failed at something that maybe I tried too hard and I hustle too much

or I didn't hustle enough or I offended somebody or I did something. And it's okay to be introspective and process and grow from it. But what's very important is for you to separate your self-worth from your quest to be great. Because a lot of us don't separate those. A lot of us in our quest to be perfect, in a quest to do something, It impacts our personal self-war that makes us insecure, makes us feel bad about ourself. It's really, really important that you separate it. It's very hard.

It took me years to do it because very oftentimes when I was failing, I was blaming myself. When I should be encouraging myself and be proud of myself that I'm trying. And so it's really, really important for everybody trying things out to be forgiving of one of oneself while questing for excellence. It's a very hard thing to balance. You need to challenge yourself, but separate it from your personal self-world. Remind yourself that you're amazing. Remind yourself that you're going to be proud of the fact that you're fighting and fight and you're doing something like 99% people don't try.

Remind yourself that you're a good person, a good human being, and that is enough. That is enough. And then go out and try to improve without it invading your software. It's very hard to achieve, but it's key for every interpretation. to have that conversation with self and to master it. Otherwise, you consume yourself and you can do harm to yourself. And I had moments of depression, Daniel, when in my early years I would lose an account or I would lose a team member and I was back to square one.

And I couldn't get out of bed. I literally couldn't get out of bed. And you need to learn to master that. What helped you master it? What I just told you, to learn to not create. your quest to be great, but to separate it from your personal love towards yourself. You need to be your own best friend. You need to love yourself and have self-doubt about how to improve yourself.

And it's a very tricky balance. Yeah. I think it's hard with social media, right? Like, I think that the comparison thing is so hard. That's what I fear of social media around like, it's so hard. like it's so hard not to compare like my friend is so much more successful than I am or like and everybody's performative everybody's trying to say exactly everyone's life is so great and my life is so terrible and it's not real there's not one single couple that I've ever met that it's perfect

but you go out to dinner with them everything seems fine they go home and they have fights so you need to understand life is not social media and and be more keep things in perspective So let's talk about technology. And I have one final question for you. But is it the best time to be an entrepreneur? Because you can build a business as a one human being right now. I just started getting into AI agents. And there's so many things right now that you can do to propel yourself with the use of technology. Or is it the most challenging because everyone now has almost full access. to allow these tools because many of them cost like almost nothing. Amazing question. It's both. It's the best of times is the worst of times and it will always be. It's your choice. How do you think about it? How do you approach it? What attitude you have? I say attitude is destiny. Think about it. Attitude is destiny. If you are going to be a protagonist,

if you are going to think, how do I turn from the darkness that my father had into something positive, then the world's your oyster. If you are going to always blame yourself, and by the way, there's going to be horrible things that happen to you. But attitude is destiny. It's what you do with it and how do you approach it and ask critical questions because all of those AI tools are there. And I'm seeing my son create some amazing things.

I'm like, wow. But to your point, well, those tools are available to all of us. So you need to be more creative. It's the four Cs. Be more creative, more compassion so you understand what other people need, more curious and just courageous to try it out. Initiative, initiative, being an actionist, trying things out. Don't be an optimist or a pessimist that just paralyzed thinking.

Take action. Be an actionist. Sometimes it's easy to become paralyzed. a lot is in the thoughts. Final question is this. My wife and I wrote a book called Unlimited Possibilities. And it was basically breaking through barriers that you didn't think was possible. When I say the phrase, unlimited possibility, what would that mean to you when you think back in your life and the barriers that you broke down? You know, it's very interesting because the way my brain works, when I look back, it's predominantly to reflect about all the lessons that

I learned. And when I look forward is to think about the problems that I've yet to solve. So for me, when I think about your title, is it, because I have, in my book, I talk about thinking boundlessly, which is similar to what you wrote or to, but when I, when I think about how, what remind me the frame that you wanted. Unlimited possibilities. Unlimited possibilities. I love that.

I think about what can I do tomorrow in the world to make this a better world? How can I make this a better world? As far as we know, we're only here once. How can we live the world better than we founded? And ideally through the private sector, because the private sector is amazing. It helps you scale in a sustainable way. I have a lot of NGOs, a lot of nonprofits, social enterprises that trade to do good. I love, I think they're necessary.

But the best models where you can create a product or service that people are willing to pay for because then you can scale sustainably. And so find what is the problem you want to solve tomorrow. And for me, they have a lot to do, lack of trust in the system, hate. Those are things that there is opportunities waiting to overcome them because nobody wants what social media is causing today. All the algorithms are making us worse. How can we rejigig the algorithm and create a community that creates more trust and more kindness and more respect? And where you have a hearty respectful debate, you don't stay away from the debate, but you do it in a way where you assume positive intent.

I think there's huge opportunities in that sector. Well, you're solving the biggest problem, making the world a better place. Like, there is no more problem bigger than making the world a better place. But every one of your viewers and listeners is doing and can do the same every single day. By just how we show up every day and how we look at each other's eyes and how we treat each other with respect, you can literally change the world every single day, every single moment in how you act towards one another. So it's a comment upon all of us.

And I'm very happy to have connected with you, Daniel. I look forward to get to know you, visit you one day. I don't know if this is on the record of the record that you have. you're in the Philippines in one of your hotels. You can come to the Philippines. Well, it'll be an amazing experience. You'll have a great time. You know, there used to be a really strong connection

between the Philippines and Mexico. Of course. Spain had the route that they connected and they would bring people back and forth. Yeah, Philippines is a fascinating country because they have both the Asian and Hispanic influence. And so it's just a fascinating people.

Like, I love Philippines. You know, I know, I'm a fascinating country. few words in Tagalo, but the people of the Philippines, to me, they're a real big part of the solution. They're builders. It's just, you know, the amount of people that are in service professionals from the Philippines that are providing health care for the elderly, that are nurses, that are at TSA work, like, it's just incredible how giving and loving that community is. I, I love the Filipino community, but I've never been there. I hope to visit one day. one day in the luxury of the

Daniel Wallens of total empire I've never been to Mexico City I've been to Mexico many times but I'm like I need to go to Mexico City one time but I can't wait Daniel I mean I've eaten so many kind bars in my life you know sometimes I have to say this before we got on

this call I couldn't help to think to myself I'm like why does Daniel want to talk to me sometimes I get this feeling like when I talk to people I'm like why the head Why is, I'm eating this kind bar 20 years ago. I never would have thought I'd be talking to Daniel today.

And I always think that sometimes. I'm like, why I always think that sometimes. I always think that. Are you saying Daniel already achieved a lot? Why would he need to talk to anybody else? Yeah, like, there's two answers. There's two answers. I like talking.

But more important, I really am still doing my very best to try to have an impact. I hope that I'll be 120 and I'll be hustling to try to have an impact. I think for me, that gives me meaning. No, I love it. I appreciate you. We had a great conversation, Daniel. I mean, two Daniels together, I really, really am honored that you're here. And this conversation was amazing.

So thank you for joining us today. Thank you, Daniel. Nice to talk to you.