Founder's Story - Luck or Genius? How Kasim Aslam Turned Failures into a $10M Payday, Plus His Thoughts on AI's Impact on Humanity | S2 Ep. 150

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

In this thought-provoking episode, host Daniel Robbins sits down with Kasim Aslam, founder of the world-renowned outsourcing agency Pareto Talent. Kasim shares his unconventional path in digital marketing, exploring the nuances of talent acquisition, the impact of AI, and the future of humanity in a tech-driven world. This episode uncovers the power of failure, the importance of luck in entrepreneurship, and Kasim's insights on data, digital transformation, and the value of relationships.Key Segments:Entry into Digital Marketing and the Power of FailureKasim describes his winding journey as a “multi-time failed entrepreneur” across various industries. After numerous attempts, he found his calling in digital marketing, a realm where he could build infrastructure without the pressure of business fulfillment. He candidly calls himself the “world’s greatest failure,” attributing his ultimate success to persistence and learning from each setback.The Impact of Luck and Perfect TimingKasim recounts his exit strategy from the Google Ads agency, where he received 50 unsolicited offers in one year, ultimately selling for a low eight-figure sum. He stresses that timing and luck played major roles in his success, a sentiment echoed by other successful entrepreneurs.Transition After the Exit: Reflecting and RechargingKasim shares advice for post-exit entrepreneurs: prioritize “cash at close” and avoid long-term commitments immediately. He spent a year traveling, reconnecting with family, and focusing on his health before deciding his next venture.Building Pareto Talent: The Art of People and PlacementKasim discusses his passion for people, crediting his agency's success to his ability to find and nurture talented individuals. At Pareto Talent, he helps high-end entrepreneurs by connecting them with skilled executive assistants from emerging nations, creating a symbiotic relationship that benefits both parties.The Simplicity of Data Analysis and Decision-MakingKnown for his talent in simplifying data trends, Kasim explains how observing macro trends instead of micro details allowed him to time his exit and avoid the pitfalls of the agency model as the industry shifted. He encourages entrepreneurs to trust their instincts and focus on clear, visible patterns in data.Navigating the Age of AI and Human CapitalWith AI advancing rapidly, Kasim emphasizes the importance of focusing on tasks AI cannot replace. He notes that as AI amplifies efficiency, it also amplifies mediocrity. Therefore, businesses need skilled, insightful people to harness AI effectively, making human capital even more crucial.Vision of the Future: Relationships with AI and Decline of Human InteractionKasim and Daniel discuss the potential future of human relationships, especially as AI becomes more integrated into daily life. Kasim shares his thoughts on emotional connections with AI, questioning whether relationships will remain interpersonal or shift to intrapersonal, with individuals projecting their own beliefs onto AI.Returning to Simplicity and Human ConnectionThey explore a hypothetical future where technology fulfills all utilitarian needs, allowing people to return to simpler forms of human connection. Kasim suggests that instead of increasing digital dependency, the advancement of AI might encourage humans to unplug and reconnect with each other on a more primal level.The Decline of the Need for Traditional Search and WorkKasim predicts that as work and job-related searches decline in relevance due to AI, we may see a societal shift away from technology dependency toward simpler lifestyles. He relates this to the evolving human desire for purpose and fulfillment beyond just work and productivity.Final Takeaway:"AI and automation aren’t the enemy; they’re the next frontier. Success in this new era will come from those who embrace both technology and the unparalleled value of human insight and creativity."Closing Remarks:Daniel and Kasim wrap up the episode with a promise to delve deeper into existential topics in future conversations. Kasim shares his website, ParetoTalent.com, for listeners interested in learning more about his current projects or contacting him directly. He also invites listeners to subscribe to his newsletter for updates on his upcoming book.Notable Quotes:“Every failure is a step forward if you’re willing to keep going.”“People aren’t just employees; they’re the core of any great company.”“The future of work isn’t just AI; it’s the balance of AI with human intuition and insight.”Our Sponsors:* Check out Indeed: https://indeed.com/FOUNDERSSTORY* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: https://www.rosettastone.com* Check out Vanta: https://vanta.com/FOUNDERSAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Lowe's knows you want to get even more value for the holiday. That's why as a MyLowe's Rewards Member, you get new member deals on holiday decor, tools, and more. And you earn points when you shop. More points equal more rewards to help you save on holiday and more. Not a member? Join for free today at Lowe's.com slash MyLowe's Rewards. Because Lowe's knows deals. Program subject to terms and conditions. Points are awarded on eligible purchases. See Lowe's.com slash terms for full details. Subject to change. Welcome back to Founder's Story. Today we have a special guest who I got to meet a few years ago who was the number one, the number one

Google Ads agency on the planet, Kossum. When I met you and you told me this and then you and I got to speak about Google Ads, I'm like, holy crap, like this guy is legit because a lot of digital marketing agencies have told me something similar, but I don't know if they really fully understand. And you didn't just talk about digital marketing. The first time I met you, you talked about the government and censorship. I mean, the thing that you were talking about, surprisingly, the stuff that you talked about is really like a thing now.

Like Joe Rogan is talking about some of the things that you talked about is really like a thing now. Like Joe Rogan is talking about some of the things that you talked about years ago around the data in Google. And I thought it was super duper interesting. I think we were in Austin. We were in Austin. Steve Simms, that was Steve Simms and that's what that was. And then we met at War Room, but I was really, really intrigued by the things that you said then and I was very fascinated

But let's kick it off with with your story first So can you walk me through what was it like for you to get into digital marketing and then for you to exit? stress test this theory for me every successful Digital marketer is really just a multi-time failed entrepreneur. So all digital marketers just tried to be good at like real businesses and we just failed over and over and over again. And, but over time kind of figured out like, well, the digital thing I can, I can do.

Cause you're so sick of rolling up businesses that that's what digital marketing is. It's the infrastructure to a business without any fulfillment. So I'm a wannabe entrepreneur. I've been trying since I was 19. I've been in every industry. I've been in software development, import, export, medical transcription. I sold purified mercury. I like, dude, if you name, I tried to do vending machines, like you name it.

And I've made an attempt at it. And digital marketing was just what stuck. So I'm just, I like to call myself the world's greatest failure, which is true. I just rode every failure a little bit further forward. My exit was as much serendipity as anything else. I owned a Google Ads agency right when the M&A world froze. So because of a bunch of things, right, like post-COVID, they printed all this money.

There was this liquidity freeze. They stopped buying SaaS. So private equity groups went to Ecom. Well, Ecom became, you know, saturated with buyers, let's say, so the inventory dried up. So then they dropped down to agencies. And I had 50 somewhat unsolicited offers in one year. And I sold for a low weight figure sum. I'm rich. And it was the best timing anybody's ever had, not because I'm smart. Right after I sold, the agency model disintegrated. So like when I sold, we had 200 clients. Nine months later, the company that bought me had 130 clients. In my agency, they were acquiring a bunch more agencies. So the agency model didn't die, but it definitely changed. And the model that I had died. And I'm just lucky it's getting the whole wide world.

It was born under a star. Yeah, it was really interesting. I'd say we've had like billionaires to incredible people like yourself as well. And everyone says luck. I'd say people have told me that luck was everything. Like they weren't any better. They didn't do anything better. It's just in that moment they got luck or they got lucky and the exit was pure

luck. But what do you, so when something like that happens and you've seen all the data you've been through all, and I love the digital marketers, like launchpreneurs, I feel you on them. I have a lot of, every idea I have has failed. So what do you look at next? So you do this, you're like, holy shit, that was incredible. You know, obviously it wasn't all luck, right?

You really worked your ass off to get there. But you exit it, and then what? I spent a year trying to figure out what I want to be when I grew up. Somebody gave me really good advice. I got two really good pieces of advice around time I was exiting. The first one was be happy with your cash at close. So if you're listening to this or watching this and you're about to exit, please dear God in heaven, earnouts are burnouts, retained equity is slavery. If you're not happy with your cash at close, do not do that deal. And thank God I was happy with my cash at close because you never know what's going

to happen post closing. And I can't comment on everything that happened post closing, but it was all very surprised. So that was piece of advice number one. Piece of advice number two is don't make any commitments. Don't decide what you're gonna do for 12 months. And I did that. I traveled, I hung out with my kids, I caught up on my health, I really spent time just letting that marinate and that was really helpful too. Where I landed was people. I love people with everything inside of me. The only reason my agency was as good as it was was because of people. I had almost 100 employees when we sold. And

they were the number one question I got during due diligence over and over and over again was where do you find these people? This is like we've never seen anybody like this. And that might be the only thing I'm good at. Fun fact, I built the number one ranked Google Ads agency in the world. We were the largest dedicated Google Ads agency at the time of our sale. I've never run a Google Ads campaign and end in my life. I don't know how to. I couldn't screen share with you right now and show you how to run Google Ads. I just found really, really, really good people. I had the highest performing real estate investment campaign on the planet before I knew how to invest in real estate. I own a monastery agency. I'm

not monastery trained. So I have no compulsion about knowing how to do the thing. I could, dude, I could, I could start, you name it, spinal surgery. Right now today I could start that business. It doesn't matter. I could rocket ship to the moon. I don't need to know anything because I know the power that people provide. And people are literal miracles. And when you kind of crack the code, and it's not hard, it's counterintuitive, but it's not hard, but when you crack the code on talent acquisition, it opens up the whole world to you. You can do anything when you can but when you crack the code on talent acquisition, it opens up the whole world to you. You can do anything when you can acquire talent.

And so I launched a, I don't even know what to call it. It's not really a placement agency because we maintain that we continue to be the employer of record, but we find, train and place executive assistants for high-end entrepreneurs. And it's been the most fulfilling thing I've ever done in my entire life because I get to take somebody in an emerging nation. We're not allowed to call them third world countries anymore. So somebody in an emerging nation. I pay many, many multiples more than they would make domestically.

I let them work from home, flexible schedule, life changing, right? And then I put them with a massively overwhelmed entrepreneur. And it's such a win-win. It's a symbiotic relationship where somebody who wants an opportunity and somebody who really, really needs help and you connect those two and it's just freaking lightning, man. It's amazing to watch. We've had some failures, of course.

That's the way that things work. It's matchmaking and, you know, personality management. But for the most part, it's been epic and it's been so much fun. And it's the least scalable business I've ever been in my entire life. But I even like it for that reason you know like I don't I don't think this is my forever thing I want to make a lot more money than this would yield but it it lets me see it's like a metal detector for opportunity because I get to see what high-end entrepreneurs are tasking their EA's with. So now I've

started to build businesses around those tasks you know like we just built an agency called Architects that helps people build out their high level instances. Because I noticed 50% of my EAs were getting tasks and go high level. And I want to build a podcast booking business because I noticed, you know, a ton of our EAs are being tasked with podcast booking. So while it's not scalable, it's a really interesting kind of like it's the corridor principle. When you're on the field of battle you see the opportunities Well, I'm on 50 fields of battle because I have 50 EA's placed So that's where I am now, we'll see where I am in a year Yeah, something interesting. I think about you just looking from the outside in on the few conversations that you and I have had

besides your obvious power to find Incredible talent which can be the make or break right because we know most entrepreneurs and I've had besides your obvious power to find incredible talent, which can be the make or break, right? Cause we know most entrepreneurs, they want to do every freaking job, every single thing and they get tied down and the business fails. But something with you, I think is your, your ability to analyze data. Now, the first conversation I had, it was you explaining about the analysis of all of

this data that you have and kind of and figuring out like anyone could analyze data but what does it mean like what does it stand for right now with significant noise yeah yeah exactly so how do you like how do you do that because I think a lot of people see a lot of data but but they don't really know, like, what does it mean? You're kind of like a human chat GBT before chat GBT, by the way. It's funny, man, because I feel like the answer is in the simplicity.

I don't look at micro trends. I'm not capable of that. There are people who are, you know, like straight up autistic rain men, count the toothpicks, you know, go to Vegas, definitely 35, you know, go to Vegas definitely 35 You know what I mean? Like those those people exist and God bless them and they're amazing way smarter than me what I look at are things that a

toddler could graph with crayons like I Had the highest performing real estate investment campaign on the planet for seven years Every year year over year the cost per click on our most valuable key phrases was going up. So it doesn't take a math scientist to say this is becoming a commoditized industry. And that trend line led me to sell the business and I sold in 2019 and I got out at quote unquote the perfect time, the perfect time. It wasn't triple PhD science.

It was looking at the simplest macro trends. My favorite example and I use this often from stage when I speak, 10 years ago, you used to be able to run ads, pay for the cost of traffic, pay for the cost of goods, pay for fulfillment and still make money. Five years ago, you ran ads, paid for the cost of goods, pay for fulfillment, pay for the cost of traffic, pay for the cost of goods, pay for fulfillment and still make money. Five years ago, you ran ads, paid for the cost of goods, pay for fulfillment, pay for traffic, probably broke even but made money on OTOs, upsells, etc. Three years ago, run ads, pay for the cost of traffic, pay for the cost of fulfillment, pay for the cost of goods, not make any money but you're making money on your LTV. Today, most businesses can't

afford to run ads. We're in a traffic bubble and I don't have to be a mathematician. I don't have to be Nick Silver to tell you that because you should be able to run an ad and make money and now you can't and that's not you know what I mean like there's there's no triple PhD science telling me this it's just it's very obvious. And yet most people I think are reluctant to rely on the most obvious trends that are right in front of their face.

And I'm, I don't know, man. I just kind of bullish when it comes to that stuff. I'm like, I'm just going to trust my gut here. And this feels like I should get out of the traffic game. And I sold my agency and I got out of the traffic game and now I see the way that AI is heading and AI is what really convinced me to get into the personnel piece because everybody else is like, oh, look what AI can do. Let's figure out what AI can do.

And I'm like, all the things that AI can do are by definition no longer monetizable because AI can do them. Stop trying to figure out what AI can do. Go figure out what AI can't do. That's what you can charge money for. And so, you know, there's the fun quote. I think it's attributed to Bill Gates. I don't know if he actually said it.

He said that automation applied to an inefficient system just amplifies the inefficiency. Right now today, pre-AI, because we're still pre-AI, a mediocre employee is good enough. It's fine. So there's Jerry, right? You've got Jerry and if you're a graphic design shop and you have like three rock stars and but they're all full and you're like, you know what? Just give it to Jerry because he can keep the project going long enough for one of the rock stars to actually get into it and polish off the

round edges. Jerry's works in this economy, in this world, in this paradigm, with AI, you're amplifying Jerry. You're amplifying mediocrity and, and leverageable mediocrity is catastrophe. It's death and destruction. It's that business isn't in business any longer. Cause Jerry goes from 10 units of output a day to 10,000. So people interestingly, counter-intuitively become exponentially more important in an AI-driven world.

So, I got into Pareto talent. Pareto is the mathematical construct. It's the Pareto distribution, 20% of your input equals 80% of your output, which is true in every organic ecosystem. So, we created Pareto talent because I know that AI is going to need really intelligent people at every level of the organization. For some reason, these businesses think that AI is going to be top down. How?

How on earth could that possibly be true? The C-level execs and the directors and the managers know how work is done? No. It's the foot soldiers that know, oh, I press this button at this time in this way. Oh, I can use AI for this. Obviously, AI is going to be bottom up. obviously, unless you're an AI company, right? But that's that's a different model in a different paradigm. So I don't know man. I'm not telling you I'm smarter than anybody else. I actually might be dumber, but I'm just willing to look at like really opaque really pixelated

cloudy kind of gray data and say I'm going that direction and so far it's paid off a couple of times. gray data and say I'm going that direction and so far it's paid off a couple of times. Alright so I can tell that you are a deep thinker like me and so I'm we're gonna get really we're gonna get deep. Oh really get really deep. I have a theory like you said Elon Musk just said it I've heard you know Moe Goddad from Google said it like many people have said, the cost of goods and services will go down to basically zero, right? Like, like you just mentioned, if it could be generated by AI,

basically goes down to free and you should no longer sell it. But I am really convinced that our population will decline. Let's say 2050, I'm making up numbers. It'll be like half of what it is. And this is what's the cap 12 billion and then taper down from there. According to Jordan Peterson, who I love. Yeah, so, and this is just my personal theory, okay, is this, I bought this website, daterobots.com back in 2016.

Because I really feel that this is the thing you have on one side, People are just having less kids. Like you're saying, most countries keep are having less kids. Younger generations are hyper focused digital. Their best friends might just be AI bots in the future. People are going to be having intimate relationships with humanoids. That is my opinion, I think. Because I think humans are just not great at realizing that a robot is not a human, it's a robot, right?

As it becomes more lifelike, it sounds more lifelike. We're not really good at differentiating. We're also not very sociable in many instances the younger people are, right? Those generations are rising I really feel like people are really gonna start finding like robots humanoids AI bots in Intimacy, but not just like intimacy like physical but emotional intimacy and then it starts to say like what if you're in a relationship like with human to human But you're're in a relationship, like with human to human, but you're also

in an emotional relationship with an AI bot? How's that gonna fall into place? These are some things I'm thinking about. What are your thoughts? So my response might dip too far into the esoteric. So we'll do our best, Kay. And you can reel me in if you think I'm about to lose all your listeners.

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I'm really into this book called A Course in Miracles right now, which relies really heavily on Christian theology, but it's not a Christian book per se. I was raised a Christian so that languaging can appeal to me, but I'm not a Christian either. So I'm going to use some words that might be a little repellent to a non-Christian audience. That's my disclaimer. All that said, every relationship you have with every person you've ever had a relationship with is really a relationship with yourself. You are interfacing with your projection of who you think that person is, intellectually, psychologically, emotionally,

spiritually. You don't see that person as a person. Most people are incapable of seeing other people as people. They see them as they're like holograms almost. And that person becomes two-dimensionalized. And that's what you know, and some people are really bad at this. Some people are just good and bad and then other people get a little more three-dimensional in their views. And yet every relationship you've ever had is really a relationship with yourself and that's why every relationship

you have is triggering because you go find what about that person triggers you and that's where the relationship starts interestingly and you don't see the other person and this is where the languaging, I might even try to avoid using the words that they use but there's, we're all splinters of God let's say if believe that. And you can't see another person until you see him as a splinter of God. And that would be the point of the relationship is that you get to actualize your splinter of divinity and then you get to see their splinter divinity and then those splinters of divinity are reflected back to each other. But the point would be for you to allow yours to emerge first. And

so if you're having a relationship with the robot, I don't actually think functionally speaking that's any different than the relationships you have now. Until we've ascended to the psychological and spiritual plane that allows us to see people as truly miracles, truly divine, truly fragments of the Creator, the Source, whatever word you want to use. Until you're there, and very few of us are, I'm not, I don't think relationship is interpersonal. I think it's intra-personal. And so I would imagine that a relationship

with the robot would probably serve all of those or most of those, let's say, purposes. I do think that there are some things that we're leaving behind from an anthropological perspective. Like, you know, I talked to a friend about this smell. This is really weird to say, but you know, in the 1850s, if you and I were as close as you and I are right now, for all intents and purposes, we're about six feet from each other. Technically speaking, right? Like I know that you're in your room, wherever you are in the world, I'm in my room in Scottsdale, Arizona.

But because of the distance and the fact that I can see your eye color and I can see your pupils dilate and I can see the specificity in your features, we're about six feet from each other. But 150 years ago, a person I was six feet from, I could smell. And we released an immense amount of pheromones and there are signals in the way that we smell. You actually choose mates, choose enemies, choose fights, choose... there's a lot in smell that we don't even know and and we've lost over time because we've become so civilized and that's not the only thing. There's cell and I think there's like sense perception and then there's like the way that

you would breathe that I'm not going to catch over a microphone but I would catch in person. And I actually think, interestingly, I think we're going to swing back. That we've lost the campfire, we've lost community, we've lost religion, we've lost so much of what makes humans, humans functionally. And so I think when the robots take over, let's say, and I don't mean that in the Skynet kind of way, I mean that in the functional way, like when the robots are the ones working the assembly line and everything's free and we're all in the StarTech, you know, utopian world where nobody has to work. I don't think the human choice is to go interface with robots. I think the human choice is

actually to go back and to sit in a loincloth around a campfire playing the guitar just talking. Like if you had nothing to worry about, most technology is utilitarian nature. I only use technology because I have to. But if you notice, and you know, I'm semi-wealthy now. I'm not ultra-high net worth. I'm a decamillionaire. So I'm still not in the stratosphere of humans that truly have nothing to worry about financially speaking, which is generally pegged around 35 million dollars net worth.

I know those people though. And what's really funny about them is very often, more often than not, they're not in front of their computers, they're not in front of email, they don't carry a cell phone, right? Like they start to unplug. And so as our needs become satiated, I don't think we become more digital. I think we become less digital. I went on a billion different directions Daniel. No no I totally agree. I was reading something recently about there was like an argument

around will Google lose a lot of its relevance from a search perspective because they were talking about you know search with AI. But me I was like no that's why not that's that's not why Google may lose relevance. It's because when we said like, what do you search in Google? You search porn, you search business, you search job-related, right? These are the things you search.

But if you didn't have to search for business because we don't work, you didn't have to search for job-related stuff because we don't work, then you don't really need to search. Like you said, we're't really need to search. Like you said, we're not gonna have to search. I am totally on the, like I am totally with you. Like I don't see a world where we're gonna have

very many jobs, many generations on. Like you said, Star Trek, whatever you wanna call it. But I am with you on loin cloth, around the fire. I am totally in the same space mindset. A lot of people come to us and they're like, Hey, it's like human and AI and I need to learn this. I'm like, maybe now, but I don't see a world where at the speed of the learning, all my friends who are in it tell me the best people in the world have no idea

how it really gets to where it's getting. It does things. They don't even understand. That Pandora box is like already opened up. And what I think the great like you said, maybe we've been thinking about the wrong way. That maybe we should be just hanging out, having fun, eating s'mores, not hustling 24 seven, being stressed out, mental health down the shitter. Like maybe we shouldn't be living this way And I think that's why we kind of make fun of younger generations like three-day work week Remember like Tim Fierce like four-hour work week. Yeah, maybe we should be is a liar by the way. He works any hours a week

You know, maybe like maybe we should be doing those things Because that's better for us. But we're so accustomed to like we need to grind and work 24 7. But no, this has been amazing. We could talk. I know we got to go, but we could talk for like another hour. I can get real deep. I've been looking for somebody else to talk to about this and nobody ever wants to listen to me. So I appreciate your ear today.

If people want to get in touch with the company though, and they want to find out more information, I love what you're doing. It's super needed. I use many of these people from I love using people in Latin America, I've used them from Colombia to Venezuela, to Chile to Argentina for the last I'd say 10 years. And it's completely changed my life. So if you want to find out more information, how can they go to Pareto talent calm? And also by the way people want to see where you're gonna be speaking or they want to book you

Because I think I need to hear more about what you're doing. How can people do that? yeah, you can go to costume.me k-a-s-i-m dot me and You can subscribe to my news that I'm writing a book that everybody can have for free. It's on how to hire an international talent I'll be sending that to my list what it's available So subscribe I've got all my links there all the socials all that fun stuff One day I want to come over your house and read one of the books behind you if you have can't see it You have the most amazing book collection I've ever seen and I've interviewed over 500 people Since two years ago alone

and no one has a book. I have three books behind me. You have like an incredible but man this has been incredible conversation. We got to have another hour long conversation about the meaning of life next time but I super appreciate your time and thanks for joining us today on Founder's Story. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you Daniel.