Founder's Story - Moving Up the Corporate Ladder and Finding Your Purpse | Ep. 9 with Carrie Santos CEO of EO

Episode Date: April 15, 2020

Carrie Santos is an executive with 20 years of experience leading change management and strategic development of international organizations and programs. She obtained her PhD, had a few different executive positions along the way and now lives out her. Please visit Pix11 or Fox5 San Diego for more details. Our Sponsors:* Check out PrizePicks and use my code FOUNDERS for a great deal: www.prizepicks.com* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: www.rosettastone.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to Inspired by Her, the podcast that will give you the inspiration, motivation and tips for success from some of the top executives, CEOs and influencers from around the globe. With your host, serial entrepreneur and named one of the most influential Filipina in the world, Kate Hancock. Hi everyone, this is Kate and today I have here Keri Santos, our EO at EO. Yes, so thank you so much for being here. For anyone who doesn't know you, can you briefly introduce yourself? Sure, I'm the CEO of Entrepreneurs Organization, an organization that has played a big part in Kate's career and professional development and so many of our mutual friends.

And I have been the CEO of EO for two and a half years. For anyone who's a member, your first question always is, we have a CEO. I hear that question pretty much every single week. Yes, we have a CEO. It's a pretty big organization and someone has to keep track of the staff and the money and that's my job. Wow. I can't wait to dig down. How do you handle 14,000 overachievers? That's a lot of work you know the weird thing is I actually love meeting each and

every member I just feel like I don't know if I was born for this or it's my personality if I could meet every member and get to know them and have a conversation like that's kind of my big e-hag my big hairy aspirational goal I think it's like no matter who the member is, you can connect and find something you have in common. And you like hear about their special talents, their journey, get so much out of that it really, it drives me. So maybe it's not for everybody, but it's absolutely for me. Wow. So before that, before we're going to go to that really intense being a leader and female of over 14,000 members, I want to know, where did you grow up, Carrie? So I grew up in a small suburb of Chicago. It's called Darien,

Illinois. And literally my house and my town were my age. Like my parents moved in when I was four months old, six months old, and like watch the trees grow up as one of those typical American suburban tract housing where there were five houses and you either lived in one or the other. And like very, very stereotypical suburb, you know, clean, very, very stereotypical suburb. You know, clean, new, a little homogenous. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so what moment from your childhood are you most proud of?

So the interesting thing is when you're in an organization like EO, you spend a lot of time thinking and dredging up memories you might not have had. And something that turned out to be really critical turning point, I had no idea at the time. I think I was in middle school, we call it junior high. And we didn't have like summer camps or anything like that. I think my mom just would drop us off at the library and we'd go get books. And I remember one day I stumbled across a bookshelf full of foreign policy textbooks like international affairs I think I was 12 for whatever reason I took a book out and I started reading it and then I went back and I read the next one and like later reflected I'm like why did I do that I have no idea why it spoke to me but it put me in this path of really being interested at a young age from why does the world work this way? Is there more way, more than one way to look

at it? And even it set me up to learn, like, I think I was 12 about idealism in the world, that there's a certain group of world leaders who have always pushed to make the world better than it can be, even if it's not possible. And somehow that spoke to me from a really young age. And I think it set me on my path of studying and trying to travel the world. Well, that's amazing for a 12 year old. I don't think I did. I think I was working, but I didn't have that thinking of what you're doing at 12. Wow. So did you have any heroes or model when you were a child? You know, it's so interesting. Primarily, no, like, I'm so grateful that my girls now have all these female heroines. we'd love to watch those movies together like the new wonder woman or katniss everdeen or the divergent series because i never saw women

kicking ass when i was growing up like never i mean i really have a hard time thinking of who who it was that would have inspired me and so like when i saw the new Wonder Woman, I was like, yeah, that's great. So I'm not sure who would have seemed like a hero. I mean, I was definitely interested in people who wanted to change the world, like, you know, Gandhi and Martin Luther King. But I did notice now that I've been raising my own girls that there weren't people that I could see myself in their role you know I I obviously was inspired by men and some women but I really wished I could have had a hero and I know you have two girls and congratulations like who got into USC is that yeah yes so my oldest daughter Helena she will kill me because

no one's supposed to know but she got into a couple great schools in Southern California and she has a couple of her weeks to decide but I think we're really likely that she's going to be attending school in Southern California I guess I can, I will be seeing you more then. Absolutely. I'm really excited about that. Okay. So tell me, what was your journey like to get where you are? If anything, it was circuitous. Like I definitely did not have a goal like this and a membership association that's global. It's not something you kind of grow up knowing about. In fact, I remember, even though I was interested in an international career, I didn't know any international jobs. Like where I lived, people were accountants or engineers or like business

and finance. I didn't know anybody with an international job. So I knew two jobs. One is professor and one is ambassador. And I actually did not see myself in either role. It's still pretty sexist time. And I didn't think that little old me, a girl could become an ambassador or professor. So I just kind of kept studying international affairs, foreign countries without knowing where it would take me and just kind of hoping something would turn up. And I had one professor in college who actually pulled me out and said, hey, Carrie, you should consider going to get a doctorate, a PhD. And if he hadn't told me specifically I could do that, I don't think it would have ever occurred to me. It just was not the way I saw

myself. It just didn't happen. So because of him, I did go get a doctorate at Berkeley. And most of those programs are set up to become a professor. And so you're just kind of on that path. Again, I only knew a couple jobs. And in the end, it didn't work out for me. I never did land a job at a university as a professor. And I didn't know what to do and where to turn with my degree. But I ended up getting a job at the State Department, which was, again, like the only other job I knew, not as an ambassador. But at least I knew that that was the kind of job to get. And I worked there for 10 years.

But I wanted to do more. At State Department, a lot of government jobs are very flat, so I think I managed a person half-time, and I sort of had this feeling that maybe I could manage a bigger team, and so American Red Cross offered me a job where I started off with a team of 10 people, worked my way up year after year till I had about a team of 120 kind of working my way up that corporate ladder. And then I was just looking for something else. Could I rent something on my own, not just being a cog in a big wheel, but what would it mean if I led the whole organization? And I was the one in charge of all of those different things and could I do it.

And you've been with Red Cross organization for like 10 years, is that correct? Yeah, I think maybe nine and about 10 with State Department, so two big decades there, yeah. So what brought you to EO? Are you familiar with EO before? So it was a recruiter. People ask me all the time. And I almost feel like it was a matchmaker because at that time I'd done a lot of work with Red Cross that I didn't know it could be relevant to anything else. It's very specific. And I didn't really see what I would have to offer in a different realm.

And the cool thing about Red Cross is that it's decentralized. Nobody's in charge. It's all volunteer. Crazy things happen and all this innovation. And you just have to learn how to go with the flow and get what you can and how to work in that network. And I think I was describing this to the recruiter and she said, huh, I think I know an organization that could use you. And she thought of you. And I have to say the recruitment process was amazing. I have been many, many interviews, you know, rising the corporate ladder. And I'm pretty good at interviewing. Like, you know, I know the right answer that you're supposed to say that makes you sound good. But EO interview wasn't like that at all. I don't even know how they did it. It was very disarming, and at the beginning, we just started telling the truth, like we just, like,

just being yourself, and I was blown away by getting to open up in a job interview and not just give, like, the typical canned answer, and I just knew I really wanted to be in an organization that was like that. Wow. Wow. So what's your typical day like now? COVID day or pre-COVID day? They're quite different. And then now. Yeah. Yeah. So my life changed a lot because I definitely have been traveling at least one week a month and it could be to any corner of the world. And it kind of meant in my downtime when I was back at home, like every weekend, I'm catching up. So it's like catching up on the laundry. Yep.

Catching up on the bills. Catching up on time with my family. And I think I always felt behind, but I do like the pace. When I'm home, my husband and I, we were felt behind but I do like the pace when I'm home my husband and I we were like we are still but we work out together every day and so we basically would go to the YMCA pretty much for a class every single day together at 6 a.m. and it's like our time and we like you know like together being healthy and come home breakfast quickly quickly ready, get out the door with my coffee and usually start meetings at EO at 830 or nine. And it's Zoom. I mean, so this is no difference. It was Zoom calls all the time, even though I work in the EO big office in Virginia, almost everybody in that office, I would say 70% of our day is on Zoom. So

we're kind of like a call center, everyone just facing their own screen and not really interacting together that much. And come home, usually, I'd say he cooks dinner a little bit more than me, but I certainly cook dinner too. And the big part, we were just joking about it yesterday, every day, we would make homemade lunches for us and the girls after dinner we were just joking about it yesterday. Every day we would make homemade lunches for us and the girls after dinner. So the person's doing the dishes and one person is like making all the pasta salad, the fruit salad, the this,

and it's a long, a long tryout process. So yesterday we were taking a walk after dinner. I said, isn't this so much better that we're not making lunches every day and we have this extra time. I said, I don't want to go back to that. You know, I mean, it's great that we're making healthy food for us and for our girls, but usually I'm tired after we get through the whole dishes, lunches and kick back and watch Netflix. Or if I'm too hyped up, I read a book to help me like calm down. Awesome. So would you say you're more of an extrovert or an introvert? Extrovert. Oh, I really am. It's interesting when you travel with people, you can tell some

people really want to go back to their room, they need to recharge. And for me, it's actually a problem with entrepreneurs organization, because I'll be in a conversation with somebody, it could be 10 o'clock, 1045. And I'm getting more and more energy. And the conversation keeps building up like momentum. And I really don't want to stop because like, what if the next part of our conversation is going to be even better? So I have a really hard time pulling away and saying, Oh, no, I got to call it now and go back to sleep and take care of myself. Because I probably could just go on that energy endlessly. Wow. Yeah. It's funny.

Like if I would attend to an EO event where I don't know anyone, I would be in a corner not talking to anyone because I'm very shy. But, you know, EO is so great because you can really introduce yourself to anybody. Like you don't have to, in other parts of my life, like we were supposed to go to a networking event. Oh my God, it's awful because you feel like everybody knows somebody. Oh, like you're really welcome to kind of butt in

and introduce yourself. I think it's very accepting. Okay, so what's one thing that can instantly make your day better? Better. I think it's really one-on-one communication because, you know, I've sent these big long emails and reports to our board, but when somebody's reaching out to me, it could be just by phone, which we do sometimes now or email. But like just a one on one where we're somebody I know, somebody who knows me, just getting to connect with them in any way, like help them or them help me. It really gives me the

energy to keep on going. I noticed it a lot more now in the COVID time, but it absolutely was a case where, you know, sometimes there would be a reason I would just need to talk to one staff person, just that one conversation where I get to catch up with them and we get to work. But I do think the one-on-one like personal connection really, really helps me keep going. Wonderful. And so tell me about a mistake that you made. Mistake. Let's see.

Let's see. I mean, I think the most embarrassing ones come to mind, like where you send reply all when you're criticizing somebody in email and if this hasn't happened to you it will um but it's so common i think usually i know a very specific one i'm thinking of at the state department where another person and i were complaining about this you know person who was being nasty in their email but we we replied all. And then, you know, you just have to suck it up and say, oh, I'm really sorry. I didn't, you know, but those are the ones I remember the most. I have the feeling there was some contract I've screwed up, but I

try not to dwell on them too much and live in the past, but absolutely there have been details of like contract, not getting something done on time, thinking it was done. But sorry, that's not specific enough. I've done that, like that reply all. Oh boy. Is there a way you could reverse that? Well, you know, it's worse. Like if you try to use that Microsoft thing, pull your email back, they can still see it and then they notice it. So you never do that. Never try to unsend your email. That's worse. Lisa, Karen, what was one of your deepest motivation in life? To be honest, I am the third of four children, which is not a common thing. The middle child, like people know what that is, but three of four is like nothing, right? Like it's not the baby, it's not the oldest, not the middle. And I really, really, I think, was fighting for attention my whole life. You know, my older siblings, they were older. I was kind of in their shadow.

We all had the same teachers growing up, the exact same classes. So everybody knew that I was someone's sister. And I think I just wanted, you know, like, hello, I'm down here. So I was definitely an overachiever in school trying to get my parents' attention. And I think they did not notice until senior year when I was valedictorian. They're like, oh, how did that happen? Like, it just, literally, that wasn't their thing. And they weren't really big on, like, they didn't give us money for A's or anything like that. But I was like, hello, hello. And I think even working all my way through my PhD was to show my parents, like, hey, look at, I am doing something. My dad actually

has a PhD as well in mechanical engineering, a very, very different field. And I think I was just trying to, to get those like awards and applause so that like they would know, you know, that they would notice me. It's one of those things like, I feel really glad in the end. Yeah, it came from a deficiency, but I'm the one who benefited. I did all that hard work and I got the results from it. But I think I was really just trying to get attention

being buried down there at the bottom of my family. Yeah, that kind of happened to me too um yeah I'm my parents they never really say something when you do really well exactly and like I think probably because they they expected that that you're gonna do well anyway but you keep on doing it because you want like where's that encouragement or like oh you did a great job yeah so yeah I can yeah that's right they didn't they didn't give that kind of praise I actually would hear it from like my parents friends they would say oh your parents are proud of you and I'd be like really that's not the way it looks to me and maybe there was a sense um you know nobody wants you to get a

big head like this fear that if we praise you, you're going to think, you know, get really a big head and very proud of yourself, which, you know, definitely did not happen. But so I think it kind of went too far the other way where I didn't know. I really didn't know what they thought of it. Yeah, but it kind of sends to like, I think it helped me because then I want to push more because I wanted that by validation so much yes right yes yes no I mean I definitely got the benefit because I worked hard and you know I got things out of it but the motivation really came from you know wanting the the pats on the back okay have you ever had imposter syndrome? Oh my. You know, I think, um, when I started working at state department, for sure, like we always had to wear suits and skirts and that was like, like partly just to, to try to fit in graduate school

for sure too, because, um, you know, some people in graduate school have are older more experienced and they've worked and they like they kind of knew what they were doing and they go to seminar and like they knew what to say and they knew how to pose all these questions and i'd be like well that's not what i read in the book where are they getting all this stuff from and so it was definitely their uh fake it till you make it um and I think pretty much at every step like whatever the next step I was in like the first time I had to present to the American Red Cross CEO uh and had to do like the powerpoint like oh my god what am I doing here I hope they don't know that I don't know what I'm doing but you know they love the presentation and then oh well I guess it wasn't as bad as I thought

wow yeah we all suffer from that yeah especially being women like we never yeah yeah no I think we kind of um underestimate like whatever level we have we sort of round down and see like the deficiency and oh I don't have this I don't that. Whereas I'm told that men tend to round up a little and see themselves. And I'm sure not all, but I think we always look for those like gaps. Oh, but I don't know this yet. I don't know that yet. And I think we sort of hold that against ourselves. So think back to a time that you felt transformed. How did you change and why yeah um this is a story some people already know in EO but it's really the most memorable transformation I can think of uh I got to go to a women of EO event so it was August 2018 and that's when I met you. And I didn't know that I was going to give the keynote

speech. I thought I was going to be on a panel. And I love panel, like that's from academia. I know how to do that. I can just go with it. But like the week was going on and our host kept saying, and we can't wait for Carrie's keynote. And I'm like, uh-oh. And so I think, you know, in general, my approach to anything in life up to that point, which we had talked about in the summit, is that women sometimes over-prepare. And that definitely has been my way of coping. So for like a PowerPoint to the CEO or for public speaking,

I would usually write out every single word of a speech. And then I would make it into like bullet point notes that are, and then bullet points from there, like kind of memorize it and like really prepare. And in this case, because I didn't know I was giving the speech and because we had like such great inspiration and training at the beginning of the week, I just said, okay, I'm going to go for it. I'm not going to like script it out. I'm going to speak from my heart. And I actually spent the preparation time talking to my husband about what would be a really, really hard thing for me to share to a group. Like not just because there's things we all feel

comfortable talking about because we talked about it so many times. And he was really pushing me every night, like what would be hard for me to tell a group of people and a group of strangers really. And what I decided was talking about my academic accomplishments to a group of people who didn't know me was really the hardest thing for me to do. Because again, coming from that feeling of not ever being boastful not ever thinking you're better than anybody not ever bragging that was really drilled into me as a kid I always like don't talk about my my academic background it makes me really really nervous to tell people because I think they're going to judge me and think I'm an egghead or think I'm this or think I'm that and so I really hide it I have good friends here like

that I see parents of my children who have no idea of anything academic about because I'm just I feel like people won't like me which is just a terrible thing so I came right out to that EO summit and I said I am a PhD in political science and then then I said the harder thing, I'm a Fulbright scholar, which really, I never, ever, ever tell anybody. And to tell that group and to sort of tell my story about when I learned that I shouldn't, you know, brag and how people don't like you if you start going through that journey and telling that story without preparing it with just kind of flying by the seat of my pants was the scariest thing I've ever done. And the most exhilarating thing I've ever done. I felt like I was on a trapeze with no net, like I was doing

these somersaults and I could fall at any moment, but the audience of women was so supportive. I just knew it wasn't going to be a risk that somebody would be there to catch me. And I called my mom after that. I said, Mom, I'm a different person. I literally said that to her. I said, EO could fire me tomorrow, and I won't care because I've been transformed. I have a new understanding of myself and sharing of myself, honestly, from the heart. And nothing will ever take that away from me.

I mean, that was just one of those moments you can't ever forget. Wow. And I remember that day. It was an outdoor, we outdoor in the circle table and sun in my eyes. It was a bright day. And yeah, cause I think our session before that is with the author, Sally, how women rise and I think, yes. And wow. Yeah, that was powerful. I think I got tear die listening to you at that moment. Yeah, yeah. It was just incredible to, instead of always hiding those things about ourself, to just be like, hey, I can show you who I am.

And you are all going to love that and love the gifts you have. And it's not like who has more or who has less. It's just real appreciation of everyone's value that it was just so healing. Like I told you that other part of like always trying to, you know, feel like you were recognized. I mean, that feeling of acceptance by just being myself was overwhelming, really overwhelming. Wow, that was powerful. And there's a lot of times too where i reach out to you like carrie i i would be getting this award but i'm kind of shy i don't think i think because it's so much bigger than like you just have that you can't help the imposter syndrome like i don't

deserve this right yeah but the thing is who who deserves it more than you? That's it. Like, you know, who deserves it more? That's why I feel so lucky to have a supportive spouse, because he's always saying, you know, that like, of course, you deserve this. Of course, you've done the work, you're ready for this, you know, but we all have that little voice that was put in our heads when we were young, that voice of doubt. well thank you and you've helped me a lot too like I think that was two weeks ago and I said Carrie I'm gonna speak in front of women of EO and I'm I'm so nervous like no just be vulnerable so like okay I did that like everyone was so accepting no and like the the feeling you get by taking the risk and then

having it appreciated you know it's so much better to risk and put it out there versus like playing it safe. And to me, that is just the big difference between me before EO and after EO. I think before EO, it was like always calculated. Okay, I can promise this and I'll over deliver. And like you just all of this like real calculation about, hey, they'll see you this way. And the next time you'll do this. And with EO, it's just like, no, this is who I am. I mean, it's really, really, especially for a woman, it's something to feel like you can be yourself. I think we're always, not always, but there's a lot of feeling that

there's a male leadership style. And if you are not in that style, are you a leader? And something, I don't know who I've ever told this, but I applied for several jobs to lead organizations. And in, I don't know how many cases it was, five, six, the job went to older men, men who are older than me. And I just felt like, okay, that's because that's what they think a leader is. And, you know, I have to hold out and find some organization that says, no, this is a leader, you know, someone who can be empathetic, someone who can be vulnerable, someone who can, you know, relate to the staff. That's who I am. And, you know, waiting to find an organization that wanted that kind of leader, it was hard.

So what do you see as your place or purpose in life? So I really think it is about the individual connections at the end. Well, we all have our, you know, aspirations in business and profession to make a difference in our business. And, you know, there's all this transformation that I'm leading at EO that I think will make a great big difference. But I still think in the end, it comes down to how you treat people, you know, the people you meet in any part of your life feel that, you know, their interactions with you are making things better, you know, trying to, like, bring that humanity to the small parts of our life, you know, not just with our capital BFFs, you know, like, but really trying to just be that person who

will take a moment to say hello. It's strange. I mean, I'm leading a big organization, but in the end, I really think there's no point if there's people you're stepping on along the way. I mean, people are people and they need to see you that way. Wow. Yeah. I think there is this poem that my high school teacher really pushed us to memorize. It's Desiderata. I'm not sure if you heard like the, one of the part of it is like, you have to listen to everyone because even their doll and ignorance, they do have their story. That's part of the, that's really powerful. And yeah. And that I think guide me how you treat everyone really with kindness and

everyone there. And you don't know what they've been through. You know, you don't know if their parent is ill. You don't know if they've been abused. Like you just literally don't know what people have to carry through their lives. And so trying to be like that positive energy for wherever they're going next. I really do believe in that, that energy that we're here to, to share as much as we can. It's not like a zero sum. The more you share of it, the more,

you know, the world is becoming a better place. Yeah, that's wonderful. So how do you want to be remembered? Well, I told you the biases I was raised with, so it definitely would be not as an intellectual. It would definitely be more someone who was fun to be with someone who made a difference um someone who you know took time to get to know you uh who offered whatever they had I mean I um fun part of my job is I like to connect people I just do that for fun and in EO I have all these opportunities to like help this member meet a member from the other side of the globe that has something in common like oh my gosh that's one of the my favorite parts of my job it's kind of magical when when you connect people like that so um I feel

like it makes a difference when when people make those kinds of connections and I was part of the that made it happen. Oh wonderful um anyone who wanted to follow your path, especially for female, what career advice would you give them? Yeah, I mean, I was always frustrated growing up because I didn't have like a straight aspiration. You know, there is the people who wanted to become a vet or want to become a doctor. And like they knew to do this. And I like I told you before, I never really knew what I wanted to do and wasn't persuaded I would become an ambassador. So I was always just looking for the next thing. And I think in some ways, not having a set path

made me more open to consider things that other people might not consider. Like, so at State Department, I started working on refugees, not because my whole life I wanted to work on refugees. It was because, okay, I was at this point, I was looking at opportunities, and that seemed like a great one. And it took me in this whole amazing direction of getting to help on humanitarian issues and Red Cross, but it was never a plan. And so, like, I know there's a lot of good reasons to have a plan to have goals. Mine were never really specific on career stuff. And I feel like it gave me this amazing journey where I am today that you really couldn't have written a straight plan to get to be the CEO of EO. It's not possible. So I feel like one of the reasons I've been able to end up here

was because I was always interested in so many things and open. I'm also just naturally curious. So like I didn't know a whole lot about entrepreneurs. I had some entrepreneurs in my life, but like getting to learn it and see where it takes me next and seeing how I can contribute,

that's really been motivating. Well, thank you so much. And I'm so honored to have you here. And thank you for sharing your journey and your story. Yeah. Oh, it's been really a pleasure talking to you. And I wish you the best of luck on your new podcast. This is going to be awesome. I can't wait to hear the next episodes. Thank you so much, Carrie, and have a good day. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe and visit katehancock.com so you don't miss out on the next episode.