Founder's Story - MrBeast's Former Advisor: Social Media Is Brainwashing Millions of Kids | Ep. 434 with Antony Gordon Founder of Lighthouse Edutainment

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

Daniel and Kate open the conversation by asking Antony to look at social media from a much bigger lens: fifty or one hundred years from now, will we look back and say it was the best thing for humanity or the worst? Antony answers that while technology itself may be neutral, he believes the current impact of social media has been deeply harmful, especially for young people. He argues that platforms originally designed to connect people have become engines of loneliness, anxiety, comparison, and external validation. The episode then moves into Antony’s time working with MrBeast and what most people never see behind the scenes. Antony explains that Jimmy’s success was not overnight. It came from obsessive focus, execution, work ethic, and years of unseen effort. From there, the conversation expands into fame, purpose, teenage mental health, AI relationships, the need for real human connection, and the dangerous myths pop culture has taught about love, passion, money, and happiness. Key Discussion Points Antony says social media began as a way for students to connect, but today it has become the opposite: a force contributing to loneliness, depression, and anxiety among young people. He explains that social platforms hit the emotional part of the brain before young people have fully developed critical thinking, which makes them more reactive and impulsive. Antony argues that major technology platforms know certain features increase anxiety and stress, yet keep them because those features drive engagement and revenue. When discussing MrBeast, Antony says the public does not see the years Jimmy spent behind the scenes watching YouTube videos for 18 hours a day and building mastery before becoming a household name. He identifies three major traits behind Jimmy’s success: extreme focus, relentless execution, and the ability to see where the audience and culture are going next. Antony says people often confuse fun with happiness. Fun is temporary, but happiness touches the soul and is connected to meaning and purpose. He believes TikTok and short form culture have trained kids to think in bite sized moments and to believe attention, dances, and viral moments can create meaning. Antony shares that in a focus group of about 2,000 Gen Z participants, many chose fame over happiness or wealth because they believed fame would create happiness. He points to long term happiness research showing that the things that make people happiest are not things, but relationships. Antony says inherited wealth can create its own crisis because people who receive everything without earning it may struggle with ownership, identity, and meaning. When asked whether delaying smartphone or social media access is the answer, Antony says it helps, but it is not enough. He believes the deeper issue is the content and values young people are absorbing. He explains that Lighthouse focuses on helping young people slow down, question what they see online, and realize that wealth, status, and external validation do not automatically lead to happiness. Antony says engagement becomes exploitation when platforms and creators degrade values, morals, and content quality just to capture attention. He argues that money does not equal happiness once basic needs are met, and that many people in entertainment achieve status but still feel isolated, unhappy, and disconnected. Antony says there is a direct correlation between happiness, meaning, and purpose, and that a life built only around becoming an influencer creates a shallow and dangerous foundation. He tells parents to imagine their 90th birthday and ask what they want people to say about them. Nobody will celebrate follower count or luxury cars. They will talk about character, integrity, giving back, and the difference someone made. Antony says the only way to build self esteem is through esteemable acts, such as serving others, volunteering, and doing things that strengthen the heart and soul. He notes that some young people are moving toward flip phones, less alcohol, fewer parties, and a rejection of social media culture, but warns that changing the device is not enough if their values stay the same. Antony says AI could make the problem worse because many young people are already forming deep relationships with synthetic AI characters. He strongly rejects the idea that AI therapists can replace human connection, arguing that machines cannot provide true empathy, sympathy, touch, or the visceral comfort of another person who has been through pain. Antony emphasizes that human eye contact, touch, shared history, and emotional presence cannot be simulated by AI, no matter how realistic it becomes. He tells parents that children remember what you do more than what you say, and that hypocrisy is one of the most damaging things a parent can model. In rapid fire, Antony says he would delete TikTok, tells teenagers to count backward from five before making impulsive decisions, and says likes are overrated while long term discipline is underrated. Antony describes his upcoming book, The Happiness Scam, as a way to dispel seven widely accepted pop culture myths that people assume will lead to happiness and a wholesome life. He challenges the idea of love at first sight, arguing that love is not an instant emotion but a byproduct of giving over time. He also challenges the phrase “follow your passion,” warning that passion must be balanced with responsibility, reality, bills, critical thinking, and discipline. Antony says pain is not bad. Pain is the price of doing anything great, and if people are taught that pain is always bad, they will look for ways to numb it instead of grow through it. Takeaways Social media has trained many young people to seek identity through external validation instead of building an internal sense of self. The difference between fun and happiness matters. Fun passes quickly, but happiness is tied to meaning, purpose, relationships, and the soul. MrBeast’s success did not come from luck or overnight virality. Antony says it came from years of focus, work ethic, execution, and understanding the audience. AI can assist people, but it cannot replace the emotional power of real human presence, touch, empathy, and shared experience. Parents need to model the values they want their children to absorb because kids remember actions more than lectures. Antony’s central message is that pop culture has sold people false formulas for happiness, and the path back requires meaning, purpose, integrity, giving, and real relationships. Closing Thoughts Antony Gordon’s Founder’s Story episode is a warning, a wake up call, and a roadmap. After years around some of the biggest names in entertainment and creator culture, Antony is now focused on helping people understand what fame, followers, money, and AI cannot give them. His message is clear: happiness is not found in likes, luxury, or instant gratification. It is built through meaning, purpose, character, relationships, and giving. This episode captures a founder on a mission to challenge the myths pop culture has sold and help the next generation build lives that are not just visible, but actually whole. Today's Sponsors: Start with Upwork, the one-stop platform to find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across marketing, editing, branding, development, operations, and more. Visit https://www.Upwork.com today to post your job for free and get matched with top talent ready to help your business grow. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The proverbial 800-pound gorillas in Silicon Valley, they are brainwashing tens of millions of kids. They absolutely know that there are features on the platform that are exacerbating anxiety and stress, and there's only one reason why they're there, and that's money. This is Anthony Gordon. For years, he was the strategic advisor to the biggest content creator on the planet, Mr. Beast. Now, backed by billionaire Ron Burkle, he's built lighthouse edutainment. He's co-producing Bitcoin, and he's coming for big tech. What did you learn while working with him that the public would never see? Jimmy became who he is for many reasons.

One is no one sees the five years that this kid was behind the scenes 18 hours a day watching YouTube videos. If TikTok disappeared tomorrow, would teenagers actually become happier? We did a focus group. That 2000 Gen Z age, binary question. Would you rather be happy or famous? They think fame means. happy. I had an open it to have Mark Zucker. I said, Mark, here's what you're missing. We just asked this question to the guru, the guru dev, and I think it's really fitting to ask you,

when we think back, if we go 50 years from now, 100 years from now, when we look back, do we say that social media was the worst thing for humanity or the best thing for humanity? It's an outstanding question. Tell me if you think this is a duck. technology is neutral. It's the way you use it. If you ask me, say, Anthony, answer that question in a binary way. Is it good or bad? I would for sure go with bad. Why? All the research shows that in the genesis of social media, the concept was to have students at college connect, develop social connectivity, not feel lonely. It's the exact antithesis today. It's the lonely. It's the most depressed and most anxious generation.

And I'll go a little bit further if I may. Social media is focused on the amygdala. So the amygdala is emotions, flight and fight. The way the brain develops is the migda develops first. Later on, meaning only in your early 20s does the prefrontal cortex start developing neurologically, which is critical thinking. So these kids are completely responding emotionally.

No sense of, let me stop and think whether it's the smartest thing to be bungee jumping off. And I've spoken to obviously a ton of these kids. There's such a remorse when they look back and they start thinking about things that they did which is purely impulse. So what you've got is a, you've got a passive repository because these kids don't filter And everything that's been poured into their poor little forming brains, they just assume his gospel. And what obviously my pet peeve is,

is that the proverbial 800-pound gorillas in Silicon Valley, they know this. And they know that they are brainwashing tens of millions of kids and not necessarily imparting a message and content that's going to make them live a wholesome and happy life. Wow. Do you think that's because of monetization? 100%.

How do I know this? I believe this is public knowledge. Meta did an internal research. So it wasn't exiled with their own people. Part of the research which is now leaked out, and I think it's been disseminated to a lot of people, is that if we get rid of likes and comments, clearly is going to be a diminution

in anxiety, in stress, why? Because this whole generation gets their sense of self from external validation. So goodbye likes, goodbye comments. It becomes more of what it was supposed to be. However, you've got a public company that has to make money.

And so they absolutely know that there are features on the platform that are exacerbating anxiety and stress and there's only one reason why they're there and that's money. because they keep them coming back, keep them longer. So you have an interesting career. You recently left an individual who you were working with to pursue this mental health crisis

and what a mission. His name is Jimmy, aka Mr. Beast. Yep. What did you learn while working with him that the public would never see? I think knowing your audience, and I love this show, because I think you guys do what Harvard Business School, And I'll say that as an alarm doesn't do. And that is you give people who've got an idea the confidence and the intestinal fortitude

to believe that despite my background, I can make this dream come true. Which is an amazing thing because there's a lot of people that say, but for the money, but for. So I'll answer according to the audience and then behind the scenes, obviously what he's comfortable and okay to say. For your audience, I can tell you, Jimmy. became who he is for many reasons. One is insane focus. Hyper-focusing meaning this is, unfortunately, the generation of the shiny object and distraction and attention. This is a guy, there could be

elephants walking by. If he's on set, that's all he sees. And that's been in the moment. So one is about focus. Two, if you ask me, what's the most important thing for your audience for the success of any business? It's one word. Execure. There are hundreds of ideas that I've heard, hundreds of pitch. What's the not sexy part? Roll up your sleeves and grind. So he's a grinder in insane work ethics. You've got focus, work ethic.

And then he's the Wayne Gretzky, meaning Wayne Gretzky became one of the greatest ice hockey players of all time, not because he was going to, to the puck. He was skating to where the puck's going to be. You've got to think of trends. You've got to think of what if I'm in the audience, if I'm a 16, 70 old kid, what's going to resonate with me? What am I worried about? And who do I want to be? If you can be the person that's imparting that content and be completely relatable, you're going to crush it.

So I would say it's those three legs of the store, you know, as a general thing. What behind the scenes that I think most people probably don't know, and I think he himself says, it's not necessarily healthy is not too much sleep, living literally for periods of time in the studio. The truth is the kind of dedication that Elon Musk had, the kind of dedication Steve Jobs had. Unfortunately, you asked me whether I think it's good or bad social media. One of the subtle messages that social media has imparted this generation is it happens quickly. You know, you go touch of a button. No one becomes an Olympian.

No one becomes, there's no shortcuts. No one sees the five years that this kid was behind the scenes 18 hours a day watching YouTube videos. There's no such a thing as an overnight sensation, you know. I'm going to do it off the record. I saw the interview with him and Joe Rogan. Yeah. And he looks very nervous there. Jimmy did?

Yeah. I don't know. I could be wrong. That's very, it's an interesting observation. He's an introvert. So you've got to think, when you're in front of a camera, when you see him, he's got a personality bigger than life. Yeah. An introvert is a person who's not energized.

I'm an extrovert. I'm energized by people and I play of people. So number one, he's an introvert. Number two, think of this. This is a young kid, Greenville, North Carolina, never exposed to the glitz and glamma of L.A. and New York. And boom, he suddenly went viral. And within a very short part of time, he became a household name. He's in front of one of the biggest podcasters.

I think there's a bit of an imposter syndrome. Like, I'm going to wake up tomorrow and it's all gone. The third thing is there was a journey. And he's definitely through that trajectory. There was a journey from taking him from a YouTuber to a brand. He's a brand today. A YouTuber is a person who has incredible ideation, understands his audience. And when it's action, he rises to the occasion.

When you're a brand, you've got to understand that there's multiple streams of revenue, you how you show up. I think, not I think, I know he's matured unbelievably in the last couple of years. What you picked up is correct. I think as a general rule, he's much more comfortable in front of a computer

or figuring out, than he is having banter, you know, with people. Yeah. Well, I wonder, I always think, I mean, whether it's him or there's other people, could be Joe Rogan, whoever. If you have hundreds of millions of subscribers, which means you have hundreds of millions or billions of people watching.

That comes with a massive responsibility. So I wonder, not even just counting him, just in general, what does that do to people on top of that? Now we're saying you are a brand. You're now going to be responsible for other people's livelihoods. You're responsible for investors. What does that do to a person? Daniel just now that, firstly, he happens to be a very nice guy,

which means, I'll give an example. I don't know, but a year and a half. ago we had a coffee meeting at Soho. So he's walking in with a hoodie. People recognize him. There's a lot of high profile public personality that is that people go up to them and they get hit up a lot. They get really upset. He's always got a smile. He's always ready for it to take a selfie. His natural breclivity is that he's a great kid. You've got to realize what Daniel said is very true. You're living in a fishbowl. Imagine how exhausting it is that you can't walk from here to seven, you know, without getting hit up.

Everyone needs a time to recharge. And especially, you know, when the tank's running dry, it's tough. So I think, and I'm very biased because his wife now got married. His wife is a South African. Clearly biased. She's got a very, I think, centering, calming effect on Germany. So I think that through his maturity and now that he's a good balance for him, great balance. Yeah. Anthony, if TikTok disappeared tomorrow, would teenagers actually become happier?

It's an outstanding question. Can we drill down on what the premise is here? There is something that the Western ethos has done, which is a huge mistake. They've conflated fun and happiness. They have very different things. Fun, we've got to six flags, go on the roller coaster, popcorn. What's happiness? if you and your husband hear a song that it just hits the soul and a tear wells up, is that a tear of fun or happiness? It's a tear of happiness.

If you watch a sunset, the difference between the fun and happiness, and this is hopefully going to answer your question, is fun is ephemeral, it's passing, it's here today, God. Happiness is something that hits the soul. Happiness is something that's very visceral, and it touches on one thing that this is, hopefully we will get there, that this generation is missing and that's meaning and purpose. The happy moments don't mean that you don't have pain,

don't mean that you have suffering. The worst thing about TikTok is that it's trained kids to think that in bite sizes, which is not realistic. And it's also, unfortunately, taught kids that a cute little dance or funny face is going to bring you purpose and meaning and a wholesome, and it's not. That if you, Daniel touched on it. Why would I leave, you know, go from, is because I believe that we are going through the biggest global pandemic of our times in terms of mental health, directly triggered by social media. Social media does some very good things.

Believe me, that's why I hate to say being binary. But I'm speaking to angel parents. Parents have lost a kid due to suicide. Yeah. It's hard. It's horrific out there. And I obviously, I don't blame the kids. But the people who are really behind the scenes and are counting the money,

they know what's going to cause stickiness. They know what's going to cause, you know, kids to come back. And I don't necessarily believe that it's in the kid's best interest. So you have these people now that, like you said, they don't, they lack purpose. The purpose is to go on and make a dance and upload it to social media, but then you realize it's empty. Yep. And then they're chasing followers,

but what does it even mean when you're chasing a follower? Like what even is a follower? Beautiful. So how is this? How are you thinking about this? It's very good. We did a focus group. I don't think it's going to freak you guys out

because you guys are way ahead. I'm already freaked out. I would say about 2000 Gen Z age. Binary question. Would you remember? rather be happy or famous? What do you think these kids said? They were wanting to be famous.

Everyone wants to be famous. Think about that. Is that nuts? Okay, so what did they all say, to a T? What did almost everything happy? Why did they all say famous, Kate? Because they think fame means happy. Yes.

Let's ask, the other question we asked them. Would you rather be rich or famous? Same thing. Almost everything said? Famous. They have no concept of wealth. They just want to be famous. That's like their ideal hero.

Okay, I'll even go deeper than that. One of the best things I learned at Harvard wasn't in a class, and it was their long-term happiness study, which went over 85 years. Here was the conclusion in a nutshell. The things that make you the most happy are not things, that people, their relationships.

It's the very famous story of the founder of, of, there's so many of these rich people that are, we represent, some of the richest people, and I don't wish this on, trust me, but they're miserable. They're dysfunctional people. They don't have a relationship with a significant other. Their kids are estranged. It goes back to, you're not going to get, if you don't, if you stop eating, you're going to starve. If you don't fill your soul, if you don't have any meaning in your life, you're an existential crisis waiting to happen.

Yeah, we've had a lot of those. We have friends that's about to inherit billions of dollars and really unsettled. And like, it's very fascinating. The pressure of a family to keep that wealth is breaking everyone apart. So let me tell you, on that point, Kate, it's amazing that. I hope you don't tell them this, but this is statistically a fact. There's a disproportionate amount of juvenile delinquents. There are heirs of hundreds and hundreds of millions.

of dollars. Why? The natural feeling of having worked for something, you get a feeling of ownership that you, by the sweat of your brow, if it's given to you, it's indignifying. That's why they're always seeking to do their own thing. Yeah.

Just take the money. Why would you work? But they, it's very different. They want to prove something and they are, it's hard for them to succeed because they don't have the fundamentals of grit. Because everything is given and easy. once you're doing your own.

It's a struggle. Let me tell you a cute story to make the point. Let's call his guy Michael. So Michael's graduating from Harvard Medical School. He walks out with his family into the driveway and he sees Gary the next door neighbor and he's peeking over. He sees the hat and gown.

So Michael's, he said, Gary, I'm graduating. Today's my big day at Harvard. Why don't you jump in the car? Join us come to the graduation. Gary jumps the car with Michael, the graduate to be, drive to Cambridge. They're in Harvard Yard. And they're calling the different names

the graduates and suddenly they call Gary's name. People are pushing him and he gets on the stage. People are going nuts and the dean gives him his hand, claps, gets off the stage. How does he feel? How does Gary feel? He was the next to neighbor. He feels like an idiot.

He's done nothing. He knows he shouldn't be there. The crowd. That's how they feel. What have I done to deserve this? Do you think delaying smartphone usage is the key? As I know a lot of what countries now are saying. Australia is leading that.

Yeah, Australia, I know parts of Asia now. I think other parts of Europe are talking about doing. So I guess delaying not just smartphones, but delaying usage of social media, is that a solve? So this is the famous form versus substance debate. So a few months ago in New York, there's a fireside chat. And this is, it's on video somewhere where I asked a similar question to Jonathan. hey, Jonathan wrote The Anxious Generation, definitely, you know, become a thought leader in the space.

His focus is exactly that. Let's keep the hypodermic needle with a little screen away from kids a little bit longer. Our focus at Lighthouse is the content. If you change the kind of content, if you are able to help kids realize slow down to the speed of life, if you're able to tell kids that not everything that you're hearing and seeing on social media is, you're going to lead to a life of happiness. That's our focus. So I think it's a combination between the two.

I think if you're just telling kids a little bit later, if they expose a little bit later and the message is still, it's all about getting rich and it's all about leaning against the Bentley when you can't even afford the hubcaps, it's a problem. So you've got to do both. Anthony, entrepreneurs are building platform designed to maximize engagement. At what point does engagement become exploitation? It's a great question.

One of the things that we said when we were brainstorming about Lighthouse is our goal is to, there's tens of millions of people out there that are leading lives of quiet desperation. So our goal is to help people realize that the content being disseminated through multiple media channels is, again, not necessarily in their best interest. The motive of the people that are creating this content is not necessary. I want you to have a happy, I want you to put your hand. your pocket and take it. So our goal is to give out that message in the most dynamic way. We obviously got to keep the lights on, but our goal is to disseminate the message first.

And I hope and it seems to be working that if people realize that we're genuine, that we're sincere, that we're altruistic, that people want to support our community as opposed to cross-selling, you know, products and T-shirts and merch, we're trying as best as we can to stay on point, to stay to the mission, without overly commercial. because people do feel taking advantage of being exploited. I mean, it seems like attention is the new gold. Everyone says attention, right? It's all about the attention that you can create

because I always look at it. If I can create something and someone is willing to pay for it, it must be important. But it seems like people are willing to pay an endless amount of money right now for attention. Who is getting rich off that that we don't know? So first is your 100% right, that attention is the best.

benchmark, to answer your question, here's what's happening. The quality of content and what kids are exposed to is dropping to the lowest possible common denominator so that they can gain attention. And that degradation of morals and integrity in order to get eyeballs, it's impacting millions of kids. Basic stuff, like in terms of honesty and morality, the message that that needs, that is being disseminated is so cheapening fundamental values that you guys have in terms of who's benefiting. It's the 800-pound gorillas that are the source of, obviously, that are a source of spewing out this content. They only get paid when the community increases. They only get paid when there's more subscriptions, when there's more cross-selling, and when there's more stickiness. Whatever they have to do

to ensure that they're doing, which in my personal opinion means they've lost their moral compass. and there are, I know, a number of engineers, highly talented people at the biggest tech firms that I've spoken to this, that they just can't do this anymore. Because they know they're using their God-given talent and they're studying and they think to build something that's going to impact and harm millions of kids. Yeah, very sad.

I know we talked about happiness earlier. What's something that everyone believes about happiness that's completely wrong? Firstly, the fact that money equals happiness has been completely dispelled. I can give you a plethora of research that. All the research shows that if you can maintain basic necessities, there's no correlation between anything above that and happiness.

So the idea that money buys happiness... The Lamborghini won't buy me happiness. It certainly won't buy you happiness. Dang. And I'll just underscore that for your audience. The entertainment industry is filled with a lot of unhappy people. If you look at the calendar, what month or days of the year

God forbid this should ever happen is the highest amount of suicide in the entertainment industry just to answer your question. Think about it. It's always a holiday. Very good. Excellent. So December the 23rd till January the 4th. Why? Because when the world goes to sleep and there's no movies and no one of... You have to stop

and face life and people realize they've ascended up the ladder and it's leaning against the wrong wall. And there's posters and pictures, there's no one that can call, they don't have true relationships and they don't like themselves because they've compromised on basic values for a quick buck or to get another like if you are not at peace with yourself and if you are continually compromising your basic values in order to get quite and quite bigger it all comes crashing down so in terms of happiness money we should completely jettison that the second thing is when we did research, here's what we found.

There's a direct correlation between happiness and meaning and purpose in life. Nietzsche said that, you know, you have to have, once you figure out the why, you can always figure out the how. If the whole purpose of life is to become an influencer, and then you start, it's a slippery slope and it's a very sick, superficial, sad world. We're all screwed. Who are we really influencing? Exactly.

Have you ever studied? the happiest countries in the world because we did we went to Finland just to The oldest Kenanabians always the well why do you think that is it we went to Finland Yeah, tell it what was you know we actually asked people like are you guys really happy he said no I think it's made up because they actually asked that Question during summer when the Sun is out and but and but they said it's very hard for entrepreneur Be if they want to do more in life because the culture would tell you just be happy happy and content what you have, but what if I wanted more? So that's a very fascinating.

You did this like anecdotally. Yes, we just went to people and said, are you like, what makes you guys happy? We asked everyone we could. You're the happiest place on earth, but what makes you happy? What's the secret? And none of them said that they were happy. They just said that they're not unhappy, they're content. And they said, we are taught to be content.

Now, we were like, that is interesting. And then they're trying to prove that maybe it's the park, they have nature's like, And but then they were kind of backtracking. I don't know. We should not be the happiest place on Earth. Like, wow, that's everything opposite what the country is promoting. It's a very long discussion. But all the Scandinavian countries always are in the top 10 in the index of the happy country.

So there's a sociological thing called proponequity, which means you're influenced by people around you. If the people around you are told to be happy, there's a notion of you can't walk around with a sour face. This is an example of how they underscore this in experiment. They had, whatever, 30 people in a room, and they had a person who was outside the room, who was the subject. They walked in, they did this in a very natural summer-told joke, and all of them, there was no joke. The person felt so terrible.

They just cracked up because that's the social sense of, I don't want to feel like an outlier. That's part of what's happening in Scandinavia. It's very interesting that they do do this in the summer. Do that exact thing in the end of the cold winter. It's not a legit answer to control. That's true. Maybe it's put out by somebody in Scandinavia. Yeah, that's somebody to meet you, somebody to know.

It's a marketing. It's a PR. It's a PR. It's a PR play. So what do you think every parent of someone who has a child that would fit into the Gen Z? What is something that all of them need to know that they might not understand? That's what I tell. I speak to a lot of these parents.

And I try and say by building things. a theater in the mind because people remember things. I say to the parents, it's your 90th birthday. Huge chocolate cake comes out, 90th candles. Next to use your significant other, your kids, your best friends, the blue mics going around. What do you want people to be saying about you? That's your legacy. No one is going to say, wow, here lies Joe, he had 3.2 million followers. He allies Gary. He had a Ferrari. At the end of the day, the things that have longevity, that have meaning, it's all about how you made a difference in this world. It's all about how you gave back. It's all about character. It's all about your sense of integrity. That has to be underscored to your children. It's got

nothing to do with collecting toys and it's got nothing to do with looking at your next-door neighbor. It's, it's what are you making of yourself? What kind of a human being are you making of yourself? That's the tragedy of this generation is that they don't focus on self-esteem and building the internal world and therefore the whole sense of self is directly related to third-party validation and if this person doesn't like or check then what am I the only way to bold self-esteem is to do esteemable acts speak to a person we've tried this there was a fire in in Malibu we asked people volunteer we need and we spoke to these kids afterwards they felt fantastic They got out of their hoodie little lock

And they felt they were doing things and making a difference If you don't if you don't exercise the muscles of the soul and the heart They're gonna atrophy and you're gonna have an empty shell and you're gonna walk around like most people unfortunately Completely focused on what other people think of you There's a supposed movement I know you're gonna talk about AI in a second because there's Okay, it's interesting around AI, but there's a supposed movement that people in their 20s let's say 20s they want to get a flip phone.

Yep. They want to drink alcohol less. Yep. They're not really partying. It's a very different culture. I don't know if they're going to bars and clubs so much anymore. And it seems like they're almost revolting against, but yet they're still depressed.

So you've just nailed one of the biggest sociological trends that's happening in the world. What we see, and I've obviously been involved in a lot of focus groups and studying about it, There's a pendulum swinging back where there's a very intuitive sense that social media comparison, that's not going to lead to the life of happiness. So they're trying to go back to certain basic things as they're saying is back to flip flums, et cetera, et cetera.

But if you are dumbing yourself down in technology, but you're not changing your goals, your values, your happiness is not going to change. if you make your goal in life whether other people like me if you make your goal in life whether you're driving a test if you downsize the technology is not going to change

you've got to change if you change the way you look at things the things you look at change if you start understanding that life's about the most important relationships that you have which is the relationship between your significant other yourself

and the relationship with God as soon as you take God out of the equation meaning whatever that God is to a person how do you possibly help a person overcome the vicissitudes of life? If there's no rhyme and reason, if we hear to collect toys, collect likes and we get put into a box and get eaten by worms, kids, the idea of meaning us life and judging ourselves by externally has been a death sentence for this generation.

And you're 100% right. They are rebelling. That's part of what we're doing. We're trying to give them the content to rethink certain things as opposed to just the idea of no premarital intimacy. You've got the external idea, but you've got to drill down and understand, what are your values, who do you want to be? That's what we focused on.

Anthony, will AI make this problem better or dramatically worse? I'm very, very scared of AI. The number of young people that have a very deep relationship with a synthetic AI character is off the charts. Now, it's not scary to have an AI girlfriend. You're right? Oh, he has a... Supposedly you're not blown anymore,

but I've had this argument. I had an open letter with Mark Zuckerberg. Mark Zucker said, the answer to this mental health thesis is to have bots, which are therapists, which are automated. So I said, Mark, here's what you're missing. You're an engineer.

I come for the world of mental health. No matter how many bites and people, pixels you've got, a machine can't be empathetic and sympathetic. I'll give you something that made sense. I'm a volunteer EMT, first responder, right? When we go to a scene, what am I doing? What am I doing when I'm holding his hand? Checking the pulse.

Very good. What else am I doing? Touching the skin, there's something about the one. When he feels that he's not alone, do you know what that does to your cortisol? You know what that does to the fact that his blood pressure, his basic, Like it's unbelievable. That a machine can't do. If you've got someone who says, you're going to be okay.

You know, I saw a clip that you did, which is, just before I was coming, during the crash, tell me if I, it seems like you lost everything and you went through a brutal time. So he can say to someone who's lost everything, I know how you feel. I've been there, you're going to be okay. Yeah.

He can say it because he's been there. No matter what you say to a computer, whatever cadence, you're not going to get that same sense of true human touch and a visceral connectivity. AI hasn't been through it. No, exactly. That's why we need a human hug, the hug. Everyone needs a hug.

Very good. I do like the people that go around and they give hugs on the street. So what do they do? There's something about, do you understand what happens with human touch? I know there's a corner. Yeah, it changed. Your system function, like everything. Which is the exact reason why I don't like robotic massage.

We tried a robot massage. She liked it. I didn't like it. Because there is like when you're not feeling good and you want to get a massage, there's a connection. It's not just like you're saying the pressure. It's the human connection because I don't like robot massage. I would say something very controversial.

This can go both ways. There has been research that shows the difference later on in life between a baby that has to navigate through the vaginal canal, which is a normal net versus a C-section. What's the difference? C-section, they're not rubbed. They're not, on the way through the birth canal, there's a sense of, it's a real sense of a warmth.

A C-section is a sudden thing. And I'll take that to another level. The difference between kids that grow up in a home where there's not a demonstrative parent, there's no hugging, they become, They become avoidance. Emotions of being vulnerable is very scary. Very guarded.

Very guarded. And they're never real. And they're scared of life. That's what AI is doing. It you cannot replace... You guys have been married for how long? Eight years. Okay.

When your husband looks across the room and just gives you a certain look, you know what he's thinking, right? AI can't do that. There's no history. There's no sense of a unique narrative. No, it's me. I already know what he's thinking, even before.

I was like, you can't lie to me. I already know exactly what you're trying to say, oh, no. Every time I tried to lie, it never works. No, I know you so much. I'm probably the worst person. Why is it that a person says, I just need a hug?

Yeah. I can't do that. And it's a big, big mistake. If they're trying to send a message this generation, that everything and anything that you can get from, your friends, your family, you can now get online. The human visceral connection,

activity, the eye contact with the real eyes, that's the windows to the soul. I don't care how realistic it is. You'll never, ever simulate that. We really have a unicorn kids because none of them like social media. Are you serious? Yeah, no social media footprints. And we even force them to have one just to communicate when it's traveling if you have no signal. I'm shocked. How do your kids? They're 19 and 22. None of them have social media. By choice. By choice. And you guys are very fortunate. And they don't like using AI. Because I have to ask my son to like, hey, can you write this script? And I said, oh, it's going to take me eight hours or two days. Like, just use AI. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to ask you. Let me ask you about happiness. Are your kids living

at home or not? No, they're on their own. Okay. When they come home, I don't know, thanksgiving, whatever, when they come to the table for whenever you have a family, do they bring their cell phone to the table? No. They don't even answer my calls. They never answer. They never answer. Okay. My car. I mean, we didn't plan this, right? You have no idea how blessed you are with kids like that. Firstly, they're not going to be reactive kind of kids. There's a part of the brain that doesn't atrophy.

And there's so much of their life that's real. Anxiety is when there's a huge disparity between, what's your kid's name? Joshua and Luke. Joshua in real life and Joshua in cyberspace. The bigger the delta, the more the anxiety. And there's a feeling of some of these kids, I'm going to be found out. They know that I can't afford that car. They know that this is completely just a green screen.

It's a plastic world. The world now, and I see it. The whole pendulum, be authentic, be real. You guys are very, very fortunate. I wonder if you were to ask parents that are more active on social media. Like obviously, like our business is on social media, right? But we're not like, I wouldn't say that we're influencers or content creators, but we have business and the business is tied to social media. And we are good about disconnecting.

But I wonder if it's, we also use AI every, you know, all the time for you guys. I wonder if it's people like that, like similar to us, their kids maybe aren't because they don't want to do what their parents does. You know, they see, I wonder if those, if you could do a study to see. So here's what all the research shows. Kids will never listen to what you say, but they will remember what you did. If you're telling your kids, the life lesson is you always tell the truth. and there's a knock on the door and the father says to his little kid,

tell them I'm not here! What do you think the kid's going to remember? Lying. You can never have hypocrisy with kids. They're watching you like a hawk. And you're their role model and you're not going to be on a pedestal until they hit a test at a certain point.

They'll never forget how they feel, how you make them feel, and the role models, that's how it's pedagogical. That's how they learn. Simple rapid fire. Okay, you ready? Shoot. One app you delete forever.

One app that... You would delete forever. I think TikTok. One habit every teenager should have. Every teenager before they make any decision should count up to five backwards. Because when you count backwards, you have to use a certain part of your cognitive critical thinking. Before you say what you're about to say to that person in class, and before you kiss the girl next to you, just count backwards.

Because there are a lot of people in orange jumper suits making number of places. in the Texas Sun today that would love to have those five seconds because they've messed up their life. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. What's overrated? What's completely overrated is the synthetic sense of likes and you can buy likes today. You can create a synthetic community that should not have any bearing on yourself with. What's underrated? What's underrated is people that are prepared to forfeit their instantaneous gratification for long-term

goals. This has been great. Likewise. A lot of good moments in there. Like, I'm, my wheels are spinning right now. So you have a new book coming out, The Happiness Scam. So here's what I've learned in many years with the biggest YouTuber, with, you know, sitting with focus groups, with pop culture has imparted a lot of isms and ideas to the world that they assume is going to lead to life of wholesomeness and happiness. My book is dispelling seven of the most universally accepted pop cultureisms

so that people can live a wholesome and happy life. I'll give an example. Love at first sight. People out there just believe that this concept that's been perpetuated by Hollywood by movies is a truism. Lust at first sight, maybe. But you are so belittling and cheapening what love is. If boy he walks into Smokey Bar, looks at the girl,

that's love. Love is not an emotion. Love is a byproduct of giving. The more you give, the more you love, which is, by the way, one of the reasons is a general rule, parents will love children more than the children love the parents. It's a byproduct of giving. I've said this often, you know, on speak engagements, and someone always comes to the podium afterwards and says, you know, we have a special needs child. And I've never understood why do I love this? It's from giving. When you understand that love is not whatever hallmark tells you it is, but the more you give, the more you love, that's an example of helping people realize that it's not an instantaneous thing. It's not something that, you know, 30 seconds, you guys have been committed and married.

Think of how you felt about each other 18 years ago versus now. That's from investing a part of you. That's from giving a part of you. I'll give an example another. Follow your passion. That's become a milieu of culture. You got to be very, very careful. Just follow your passion. There are a lot of, unfortunately,

homeless and very depressed people that just pressed and pressed eject and were blindly following their passion. You've got to balance everything with the reality of the fact that the bills are not going to stop coming. If you want to, the idea of following your passion is purely emotions.

It's amygdala. You've got to balance everything with critical thinking. The most successful people in the world, even if you sleep on the couch for a while, even the idea of just jumping and then thinking is a message that this generation's got that's, I know I pick up the pieces. You know, they just, why did I, that's counting backwards.

Those kind of things. Money brings happiness. So what I've done is I've taken seven of things that, unfortunately, kids just assume, why have I done this? because you cannot lecture to Gen Z. They won't listen if you prophetize it. But if I say to them,

what my TED talk said to them, that I used to think that pain was a bad thing. That's just pop culture. And then as I got older and I started researching, I realized that pain is not bad. Pain is the price that you're going to have to pay for anything that's great. You want to become the best marathon running. It's painful.

As soon as you say that pain is bad, which is the message, then you'll use anything to mute pain, substance abuse, pornography. But if you understand that if you want to be great at your chosen vocation and discipline, it's going to be painful. The book basically takes seven of these cardinal pillars that pop culture has made into cliches and helping these kids say, one second, is this really the truth? Is this really going to lead to a life of, you know, happiness and wholesomeness?

once you've got a kid to dispel the myth, you've got to avoid, and you can then fill that void with, hopefully some ideas that'll help him of a much more wholesome, healthy life, which is our goal. I thought it was love at first sight. How did you think about me when we were...

Weird. As I said, the Pandora's box open. I thought I was weird when we first met, so that's good. It was weird at first sight. He's very weird. I like him. You should marry him.

And that's what I did. What made you think that, how did he go from being goofy, weird to you? husband. I think we really enjoy each other's conversation and company. It's fun. So would you agree with my thesis that the first interaction wasn't love? It was intrigued, curiosity. Yeah, it's curiosity because it's very weird. Like how can I not figure this guy? He's very weird. Like I've never met such an eclectic person that's how I was even more curious. Like, I need to find out why. So that discovery become like, huh, maybe.

or something? I've always said this. Women are mostly attracted to humor. That's a big thing. More than anything else. Like if you are not considered maybe a great-looking individual, if you are funny,

you elevate yourself. Movie star looks and he's hysterical. Look at all this comedian. They get all hot chicks. That's true. By the way, it's very true that. Because humor is one of the biggest parameters of EQ.

I did a lot of stand-up comedy in South Africa. And here's what I learned. If you get on a stage and you have to use four-letter words and embarrass people, then get off the stage. Humor is about self-deprecate. You're laughing at life. You should never, ever laugh at someone else's expense. It seems like he's a very kind person, I think.

He is. I only laugh at myself. Exactly. That's the healthiest humor, by the way. And then I turn around and I cry. But Anthony, this is Anthony Gordon, man. This is great. Can't wait for the book.

You guys are amazing, man. You solve. You solve happiness. I mean, you solve happiness, and you've now, you know, 8 billion people will thank you for it. So I hope that, even if you get 20%, you're good. You're good.

From your mouth, and that's really the whole goal. I've seen, I mean, in my life, represented the proverbial rich and famous. So I'm saying, just like you felt, I've been there, I've seen these people. And the role that I play is not the lawyer. I don't know, become their confidant. It's amazing.

that people are looking for the things that money can't buy. They're looking for the things that when they look back at their life, they're going to be proud of. It's not the message they're getting on pop culture. Amazing. Thank you for joining us. Great pleasure. You guys are terrific. Keep up the good work.