Founder's Story - Strategist, Speaker, Author, and Award-Winning Designer | Ep. 6 with Mel Lim CEO of Maspira Groupe

Episode Date: April 10, 2020

Inspired by her episode 6 with Mel Lim. She is one of the most sought-after consultants in the tech and software startup scene. She founded an innovation strategy and design agency that has garnered hundreds of industry accolades.  Please visit Pix11 or Fox5 San Diego for more details. Our Sponsors:* Check out PrizePicks and use my code FOUNDERS for a great deal: www.prizepicks.com* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code TODAY for a great deal: www.rosettastone.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to Inspired by Her, the podcast that will give you the inspiration, motivation and tips for success from some of the top executives, CEOs and influencers from around the globe. With your host, serial entrepreneur and named one of the most influential Filipina in the world, Kate Hancock. We are live. Hi, everyone. This is Kate Kate and I'm very excited. I have here Mil, Lim. You can see me, right? Yes, you're clear. So I'm so honored to have you here. I know I met you at the EO event in Napa Valley. I think that's the first time I met you, but I never get really get a chance to know you, so I'm very excited for you to be here. Well, Mel, everyone, is a serial entrepreneur. She's a keynote speaker, best-selling author, and top global award winner. She awarded top 50 tech visionary award and was named among the 250 most inspiring female entrepreneurs. I don't know if you could have better value than that. It's too much. It's too

much people on the floor. All right, Mel, for anyone who do not know you, can you briefly introduce yourself? I am a founder and CEO of Maspera Group. It's an innovation and brand consultancy. And I'm also the CEO of M Sovereign, a media platform. So just in case you guys don't know, Maspera Group, my innovation and brand consultancy, you know, our purpose is to help organizations, startups, small business owners to corporations to redefine their innovation framework, business models and brand strategies. and we help them create possibilities and opportunities, right? By redesigning their strategic priorities, their products and services, and in hopes that this will enable them to respond swiftly, pivot, accelerate growth, and thrive and achieve global impact using creativity, design, and technology. And of course, to do all that in a very sustainable and responsible way. And then M Sovereign, my second company, is my media platform.

And I created it just because over the years, I wrote a book, and I was asked to speak a lot. And it's more of like my media platform. And it enables me to help people achieve equanimity and find meaning in their work through mindfulness. And also, you know, in the hopes of reframing their approach to value and impact creation. So that's that and I'm also a proud single mom of two boys Evan and Tyler Evan just turned nine yesterday and Tyler is six although I wish that he was still five they grow so much right stop it stop it I can't hug you like this anymore you know you're like this anymore you know when you're like this you know and now you're like oh you're so big all right so you're you're a single mom you run two

companies you run this multi-million dollar company how do you do that I need to I can't wait to really get to know you more um so tell me what was the city, town you grew up in like? So as you can tell, I'm not from here. Obviously, I don't have the American accent. Although over the years, I've tried to refine my American accent by introducing dude into my vocabulary but I originally grew up in Penang Malaysia all island located northwest of the peninsula of Malaysia and it's a small island maybe about a third tiny be less than a million I think today it's about 1.5 million population for those of you who don't know Penang or Malaysia it's a British

colony since the 1800s so So I grew up attending, you know, the all girls convent school managed and run by Roman Catholic missionaries slash nuns. I have a very diverse family background. My dad was a Roman Catholic, my mom's a Buddhist, I have a Muslim aunt, an Orthodox Jewish aunt, I, I, we celebrate Christmas, Chinese New Year, the whole thing, we're like, you know, the colors of Benetton. So you have a lot of different holidays then. Yes, and, and because of the diversity of culture in Malaysia, you know, having Muslim friends, Indian friends, Chinese friends, Eurasian friends, you know, we, we celebrate all of those different traditions and cultures, right? And so, and also because of that, I'm able to speak Bahasa Melayu, which is a native language. I speak

Hokkien, Cantonese, a little bit of Mandarin, and of course, English. And so Malaysia has this kind of rich European colonization history. And I'm not sure how that is. I don't know much about the Filipino or the Philippine history, but you can probably we can share stories. But as you know, in that particular part of the world, there was a lot of colonization. First, it was the Portuguese and the Dutch and the British. And of course, later on, we had the Japanese occupation. And Malaysia didn't gain its independence from Britain until 1957. So I'm the product of this Malaysian born Chinese. It's like a product of post-colonialism, right? I believe I'm more well versed in British history than American history.

But after living here for almost two decades now, I think I've finally caught up with American history. But I still like, you know, I still follow a little bit of the British tradition. I love my afternoon tea and my biscuits and my Marmite, you know, things. What is that? Marmite? Marmite is this black yeast and it's, it's like a savory spread that you put on bread, you know, like a toast. I usually serve it with porridge. I know it's, it's really yummy. I love it. And I'm into spam. I know a very weird case, but it's... Yeah. Okay, so you said you moved out here 20 years ago. So where did you grow up in Malaysia? The whole year? Yeah, so I grew up, you know, until I was 19. So my primary and secondary

education in Malaysia, and then I moved here for my tertiary education when I was 19. How was it like moving from Malaysia and being new in the US? Oh it was it was very interesting I have to say it wasn't as smooth as I wanted it to be and And I remember, because I was, I grew up with British education my entire life. So I was prepped to go to London to get my education at the London Institute, which is another art school. But then I ended up applying to several art schools here in the US, including RISD, Parsons Art Center, which is in Pasadena, and I remember asking my parents, like, can I, can I go, can I pursue my education in design, and they were, like,

you know, these are very traditional Chinese parents, right, they're like, well, designers don't make money, you gotta figure something out, I'm like, how about architecture, it's design, math, you know, and I was really great at that, and so they agreed and and we had to choose college and I remember I was telling my mom well I really wanted to go to Parsons and New York City not so good and I'm like okay and you know our perception of the US as at least my perception of the US It was through me watching movies. Beverly Hills, Nile, Nile, Melrose Place, Dynasty, North Landing. So I did not have a great sense of law and order, you know. So when I, when I told my mom, I want to go to New York City, she's like, law and order, you get raped. And so here I am, like, she bought me a ticket, and now I live in California, so she has this idea that

Beverly Hills 902, I know it would be better for my daughter to come here, so yeah, so I came to California, attended Art Center School of Design since I was 19, but then three months after I had arrived, the ASEAN 97 economic crisis hit, and both my parents went bankrupt so I remember having this conversation with both of them and they said you have an open ticket to to go home to come home or you can stay there but you have to do it on your own and I was young you know I'm like I'm not going home this is an opportunity for me to make something for myself. So I decided to stay, but not realizing what was waiting for me, which is complete independence.

I was financially independent when I was 19. No safety net, no parents, no friends, on my own, and I didn't have any money. Now, of course, my father gave me enough just to pay the first semester's tuition, but it's a private art school. It's like 10 grand a semester, that eight semesters altogether, so you're talking about 80,000 just for tuition, and then that's not including, you know, living, right, and, and then I didn't have a lot, so I ended up doing all sorts of stuff to put myself through school. I got, I got, um, three, uh, teaching assisting job in school. I worked full time in an architecture firm, and then I went to school

full time in the evening. And I, I carried about 21 to 24 units because I was paying for my own schooling. I thought, fuck it. if I'm going to pay for myself, I want to maximize my learning. So I was pretty much navigating everything on my own. I had no elders to ask permission. And so every decision from then onwards were, you know know they were my own decision which meant I had to live with them if it was a mistake and or if it's good then I could celebrate it on my own but it was tough it was tough you know imagining working 100 hour a week and going to school full time and trying to get scholarship it was a lot yeah I could imagine before we're going to go back to that when you're starting your business so what moment from your childhood are you most proud of

oh my god I have I have I have many many proud moments uh as a child you know my sister and I were raised by single parents by my mom so we were pretty independent when we were growing up I remember my you know my my sister and I used to travel back and forth flying from Penang the island to KL which is the main city and to visit my my father you know on the weekends and I remember I was five years old she was probably nine ten years old and we would be like little kids traveling flying all the time on our own and by the time I turned 12 I had already traveled so much just with her and with my mom who went on a lot of business trips to Hong Kong and Thailand so those those experiences I think are the ones that I feel like I'm most proud of because it really opened up my eyes to the world outside of my little island.

Right. And I get to see business. I get to see people. I get to see cultures. And it really shaped the person of who I am today. Amazing. So your mom is like bringing you doing this deals oh my god yes oh I have fun stories to share about my mom and I remember I was nine years old and she brought me to one of her business deals it was and usually all these deals happen in a karaoke bar somehow. Tell me, what was your mom's business then? Okay, so my mom owned an interior design furniture making, like a manufacturer slash interior design shop, and she had hundreds of employees, and she was like, you know, the supplier and maker for like a ton of American brands, like Baker Furniture, you know, the supplier and maker for like a ton of American brands, like Baker furniture, you know, so she was manufacturing and making furniture and she was designing

a lot of hotels. And so I get to see my mom really like, you know, she would take me to all these karaoke meetings and in the private rooms. Right. And you have all these like old Asian men, you know, and she was like the only female executive. And, and I remember sitting there and I would watch her kind of like trying to negotiate deals. And of course, that's Hennessy, XO, and all that.

And I would watch and see how she would navigate, you know, sticky situations as a woman in business amongst the wolves and I would just watch her and she would always be so gracious and calm but firm and she would always get the deals done and I was so I was I was really fascinated by that of course you know my mom being a Chinese mom I had to learn how to do sales accounting and all that during the weekends I mean I think that that's how I learned about business was through watching her and being with her yeah it's amazing how like I I kind of relate to that I was shaped by you know I grew up in a family business where everyone is hustling and we work 24 hours and that's the only you know that's the only thing I know so

I do the same thing and yeah and I think it really helps you gave me that confidence that you know you could do it because they've you're you know you're you're on it at the very yes at the very early yeah you're being shaped you're being shaped, you're being shaped, like, you know, it's almost like my, my, my late mother was grooming me and my sister at an early age to kind of somehow take over her business, at least that was what she intended, so we were both exposed to the good and the ugly side of entrepreneurship, right? I mean, my parents both were entrepreneurs, self-made entrepreneurs.

My mom did not have a college degree, so did my dad. They were both self-made. And my mom was the oldest, I think, of 13 siblings, including the step-siblings. So she was the oldest, and she had to take care of everyone. And she put herself through all these management training courses she was a salesperson and all the way to end up having her own business and of course in any business the

ups and downs some days we were really doing well and some days we were so broke some days we were bankrupt you know and then to to watch her make those decisions and to protect my sister and I, I don't even know if she really protected us. I think it's almost like we were exposed to it. It's like, there, we have no money. Go figure it out. Or there, we have money. Let's go eat. So it's like, it is what it is.

There's no hiding or shielding us from anything it is what it is and this is part of our lives yeah you shared a little bit of deep um childhood experience where you were you would go to your dad's family and you're in the table can you tell me more about that it was very yes so so you're out you were asking that what was my best memory that that was the the traveling with my mom and my sister and all that was definitely my best memory and of course I had really bad memory too and I and you know my my worst childhood memory was something I really had to work through as an adult and and I had to go to therapy for many years to heal that inner child. You know, when I tell people this story, and I choose very carefully how to tell this story

because taken out of context, it might be viewed as something really negative. And I'm not undermining that it was not. But I'm also looking at how if I were to juxtapose all the achievements that I have gained today through, you know, to today, and you juxtapose against what I'm about to share with you, you can see how it led to that, right? It's always good coming out of something bad. So my sister and I openly talk about the abuse that we endured you know when we were younger when we were growing up we really didn't know that it was abuse or understood that it was bad

we thought it was really normal so my mom and dad had to work full-time and my they would usually drop us off at my grandparents house and on my dad's side and they would watch over us and our cousins while the adults went to work so every night at the dinner table with like 20 people you know how like Asian families they have like so many people living in the same house so there were like 20 of us in that same house adults and kids and every night after you know during dinner they would all eat in that big round table they will all have dead dinners and my sister and I will cast aside and we were only said after everyone else ate so then every time after everyone stood up and left as soon

as this is that my sister would scoop out a bowl of white rice onto my bowl and then she would down to each of the plates for meat and she would pick apart the meat you know and then she was scooping into my bowl and she would you know try to get some broth you know or soy sauce and she would pour over my bowl and she would give it to me first and some days it was just plain soy sauce and some days we were lucky we would have like you know leftover like fish you know whatever we were lucky that we had white rice so that's why we were thankful like at least we had rice and you know and our grandparents and uncles weren't very nice either they would beat us and my sister was the one who took most of the brunt and even till today she is like still like my protector and my guardian she's always we call I call her you know like the

disapproving sister I'm like she's like yeah she's like always protecting me and and so you know that was something that I had to kind of process during my adult life, because I noticed that when I was living in the US, I was a very hungry child too. I mean, till, you know, when I came here, I was so broke. My mom had sent me ramen noodle to last for, I think it was 60 days of ramen. I would eat half a packet in the morning and half a packet at night. And then I will walk to school for four miles back and forth to school every day. And I was always hungry. But it was not like hungry like I was back then as a child. And I told myself, and I'm like, if I could enjoy the white rice for my childhood, I can enjoy the ramen.

You know, like it didn't really occur to me that I was hungry. I was like, I'm just gonna do it and then I walked to school I come back you know and then my roommates were nice enough to give me an egg I could add egg to my ramen you know and and of course eventually I found friends and I found a really great friend who's still my friend today um I get a shout out to him Kin Tai Lo thank you he was the one that in the evening would mind buy me food he's like i'm coming over with boba and some noodles for you is this in california yeah and this he was the only malaysian friend that i had found when i first landed in the u.s and he was always this amazing friend that would always feed me he's like you're so skinny you're always working you're I'm feeding you. So you come over and buy me food,

watch like TV after that, you know. But it was nice. At least I had good people surrounding me. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me, okay, so you're right. After college, you work yourself to school. Tell me about that first,

what made you decide to open your own company? There are many reasons why I decided to open my own company one of it so I was in architecture for about eight years you know I always tell people I'm only 43 but I've lived seven lifetimes because I have lived such a rich life uh and I was in architecture for about seven to eight years. I worked full-time. By the time I graduated, I had a ton of job offers from all these amazing architecture firms and global brands that I get to pick and choose, but ultimately, what led me to opening up my own studio, number one, was because my ex and I had moved back to California. We were in the Midwest. We had

moved back to California, and I really didn Midwest. We had moved back to California, and I really didn't want to work for anybody at that time anymore. I was tired. I think I burned out. I think by the time I turned 23, I had already designed casinos, malls, stadiums, hotels, you name it. I've designed like multi-million dollar projects. I was 23. I was done. And it's because I was working 100, 120 hour work week. I mean, anyone in architecture can tell you that's pretty normal, you know, but like, to me, I just felt like I was done horrible stories of discrimination and sexual harassment along the way, and I'm not going to get into deets about this today, but it propelled me in a way where I go, I am not going to let this shit happen again. I did not sacrifice this much to live you know to leave my country and to live a

life this hard to do this I I want a I want to have more control over my future that's why I started my own studio I love that I love that no it um, so what is your typical day like now? Oh my God. We're having two kids. and as a single mom and you know how it is as a mother right as a you know my day typically started at 4 30 in the morning I would wake up I get my meditation in and then I'll go read my emails and news I'll go watch the news I'll listen to Bloomberg whatever and then I'll answer all my emails from my east coast clients and then I go bake breakfast for my kids and get them ready for school by 8 15 I'm back in I work from, so I'm back in the studio and I am having my team huddles, taking calls, meetings, reviewing my team's work, strategy,

designing, and more meetings. And then in the afternoon I go and pick the kids up or sometimes the nanny would go pick them up. Then they come back, make them snacks, get them sorted, do their homework, activities, and then, and then around, like, six-ish is where I fully check out from work, I would then play with them a little bit, catch up during, like, what did you do for school today, can mama, you know, see what you guys have done, and then we would have bath time which is really fun and then dinner time and then story time we would read a lot um and then after they go to bed at 7 30 i know for a lot of people that's pretty early but my mom's got shit to do so 7 30 they're in bed and then my my second evening shift i call it my night shift would start again i would then work from 8 p.m. until midnight. Then I'll

wake up at 4.30 in the morning again. That seemed like really a lot for people. Like sometimes when I get all these questions, how do you manage all? So I tell them, I did. They're like, get the fuck out. This is too much. And I'm like, well, just put it in context, okay? I have always woken up at 4.30 since I was like seven years old. It has always been in my DNA to do this. So it's not abnormal. Just that I'm very efficient with my performance, I suppose, like with my productivity level, I keep them in a tight schedule. So as long as my day, I get to do eight to 10 hours of billable time and then I get about two to four hours of admin team management time and four to six hours of

kids time I'm happy now during this pandemic you get more work as of three weeks ago I'm a full-time teacher right and then so now I have two children with entirely different curriculum that I have to manage. And I have to say, Kate, people think that I can do it all. I cannot do it all. I am not a good homeschool teacher. No, it's hard. No, I struggle with that, right? I would get a long email from my kid's dad because their grades were like nothing on top. Like I was working so much and I had to follow up with the kids.

Like now I can set the schedule. Like in the morning you have to do your homework and yet, you know, in the afternoon they can start playing. Right. Like once you have those structured, but like we can't do everything perfectly no and and you know this type a personality has let go i go like okay this is not normal for anyone it's it's it's really hard for them it is it is hard for me i i found that my days were split up in chunks you know initially and then one moment i was on a phone call talking, you know, about strategic planning, blah, blah, blah.

And then the next thing is like my little one is like, Mama, how do I do this app? What is this? See SiteWars. And I'm like, oh, shit. And I had to go and teach him the SiteWars. And I come on and I try to pacify a CEO. Please don't lay off your staff.

You know, it's like your brain just, it's like on different levels at all times. And you have to be on because I'm a highly paid consultant I need to be on but I couldn't be on because my mind was like oh did I upload that photo that he drew for the teacher did I record it right so so now what I do is you know I just out of the 12 things that the teachers send me I just as long as I hit eight I think I'm happy now you you do consulting now do you have clients overseas as well most of them are in the states it's just that my clients are all over the world in the sense that their headquarters could be in Israel and then they have a you know

they have the team here in the U.S. so I'm on different time zones hence my crazy work schedule because yeah I'm on the back and call I don't mind I love it in fact I love engaging them but yes if I can sleep I'll sleep I'll take naps these days I'm like those you know how like when I was pregnant I was always taking naps and I'm like who the hell take naps and then you're like so tired your body is like so fat and so tired now I do that too and I'm not pregnant I'm just like okay I need that okay so Mel I I know you okay so what is the highest honor or award you've ever received you got a lot I got a lot I I don't know all the achievers, that's my problem. So I feel like every award is amazing. I have deep gratitude, you know, until the next one comes along. So I'm very humbled. But in my career as a designer as a, as a designer, as an entrepreneur, business owner,

whatever you call it, I've won over 150 industry accolades. I've appeared in over a thousand magazines and, and oddly enough today, I don't feature much of that on my website or on my portfolio. Nothing. I don't, I don't do that as much anymore. I've listed half of it on my LinkedIn. And, and, but there's one, there's one particular one that I, it's not an award, but it's a moment in my career that I feel like it touched me the most. And I think it's purely because I was feeding Tyler. He was less than a year old then. And, and I was, you know, bottle feeding him and I was watching my client ring the bell at Nasdaq and I could I could just felt like an overwhelming pride right look at your baby and I wish I was in New York but I chose not to go you know and you watch your client ring the bell and and then I

was telling people if you had only known what it took to get there, the two years worth of work to get there, you would have cried too. And that moment, seeing all of my work plastered all over Times Square for the whole day. And then you just sit there quietly, you go like, wow, you know, who would have thought that this Malaysian born little immigrant, right? Who's so broke and so poor could have this much impact on businesses. And then so that I started tracing back like, Oh my God, all these other clients of mine and all their successes, it just helped me reframe and develop or maybe see things from a different lens, what success means. And then I pretty much didn't thrive or care about the trophies and the awards

and the accolades anymore. I just, for me, my new set of metric of success is just how big of an impact, you know, can I bring to my clients? And you start measuring those things, right? You know, Oh my God, I've raised hundreds of millions of dollars for my, for my clients. You know, how many jobs have I helped them create? How many products and services have I rolled out that have made impact in people's life? You know, the productivity level. And so you start looking at things and you start realizing the power of the work that you produce. And that alone shifted my mindset a lot.

And because I shifted my metrics of success, it also helped me align my company's core value and mission more. And once I do that, then it's almost like I'm attracting clients that can see that. It's like clients that can see through all the BS. And then the less I show off, the more they come. It's fascinating to me how the universe is doing its work. Amazing. Right. So what's your greatest failure so far?

Oh, my God, Kate. I have a lot. But yes, there's one great failure. You know, I try to, I try to, how do I put this? I have always seen my life as, as almost like a journey, right? You know, I, I have all these different chapters, you know, from, from my childhood, you know, being, being grown up in, you know, by raised by a single mom and being poor, being rich, being poor, being bankrupt, and then, you know, having to do it on my own. And I've always seen that, you know, and I've gone through 9-11, you know, in the 97 crisis, the 9-11, and then 2008, building my teams, scaling down, laying off people, rebuilding, firing clients, hustling for clients, you know, we've done it all. We are entrepreneurs. So you, you, you know that, right? Just, just the ups and downs and the merry-go-round so I've always felt like I've earned my successes

but I have to say the most disappointing failure I think for me came you know came to this apex was in 2016 when I when my 16 year marriage ended I think it was the most difficult thing I had to do in my entire life. And, and I think it's purely because at that time, Tyler was one, Evan was four. And whatever decision that I felt that I was making, I was making it for them too. And it wasn't like I could just go out with gun blazing and then, you know, F you, I'm

going to do whatever I want. It's more like, okay, whatever decisions I make today, it's going to have this huge impact on them. And, you know, and I was, I was, it was challenging because at the same time when I was going through my divorce, I had, I realized I had lost all of my elders. My late mother passed away. My late father had passed away. My nanny, the woman who raised me, she passed away at that same time. My godmother here passed away as well. So it's like all my elders were gone.

So I felt like I was really alone. Like I had no one to get advice from. And these are like sensitive times, right? Because it's emotional. You have children. You have, it's like the family issues. You know, the rest of the stuff that I had dealt with, it was more for like external things. It's more like an achievement, right? It's more like money, grades, you know, accolades, you know, it's revenue.

But this is different. This is personal. And I felt really lost. And my sister at that time was in New York she you know she was trying every day checking in with me please let me are alive I said I'm alive I'm alive you know I'm still alive I'm okay and during that process the wealth that I had accumulated throughout working since I was 19 years old, it was dissolved, right? Throughout the divorce settlement, it was gone. I woke up one morning, I had no money in my bank account, probably at $2.15 probably. And I was left with nothing. And I couldn't even afford groceries. I had hit rock bottom. That was

my failure. I remember sitting in the car, and I was crying because I was like, okay, I need to go buy food for the kids. What the hell do I do? I'm no credit, nothing. It was all frozen. It was done, and then I went to the kid's room, and I told my little son and I said, Ellen, can mama crack open the piggy bank? And then, can mama borrow money from you? He's like, yes, mama. And so I crack it open and then I help him help me roll up all the quarters into rolls, you know. I said, we're gonna roll it all up and we're gonna take it to the grocery and we're gonna buy food, okay? And he's like, okay, okay. And then that moment, I realized I had become my late mother which is single mom and my late father who had done the same thing to my sister and I when he moved out

of the house when he was broke he borrowed money from her piggy bank so I had become my mother and my father in one night and on top of that I had to figure out how to make payroll for my team how to make a mortgage payment how to make tuition and child care payments life still had to figure out how to make payroll for my team, how to make a mortgage payment, how to make tuition and child care payments. Life still had to happen somehow. And it was just so much. It was so much, Kate. It was a lot for anyone to deal with at that time, you know, putting the house to sale and attorneys left and right. It was just so much happening that I think part of me died that day in the car as I was sitting sobbing there and at Vons I was like oh god this is not happening and it happened and it wasn't like I was never hungry or broke before I had gone through that but when you look

back and your car sees you have two little ones it's a different feeling it's like you felt like a failure because you put your kids in that situation to begin with. What the hell is wrong with you? And I was so angry at myself. But in that moment, I realized I had to make some really tough choices. I mean, looking back, I wish I had been more aggressive with my settlement. There were choices that I made and I knew that I made it out of love for my children in the long term. But at that moment, I also realized, you know what, I'm given a second chance today. I may not have anything in my bank account, but I know what I want to do if I do have money again. And I knew that I needed to lead a simpler, healthier life, a cleaner life, a more meaningful life for them. And I gave myself a deadline to rebound. I said,

20 months to rebuild. And I remember asking a lot of friends for advice. And I realized that I shouldn't have done that too, because it only confused me even more, including from my sister. And my sister can tell you all the advice she gave me, I threw it out the window. So what I did was I turned really inward. I was very quiet for the first 12 months. I became very still. I said to myself, you know, you are your mother's child. Not only will you survive this, you will become formidable. Focus on the kids. Their joys are my joys. Their pain are my pains, focus on them and everything will be okay. And it took a while. You know, can you imagine that you, you know, you have friends and family asking you, go take a job, you'll make a hundred thousand dollars. I'm like, oh my God, that's why

I used to make a month. And then you go like, what the hell is happening here? And then, you know, and you're trying to keep something going still, but you can't because your brain is fractured, you know, and your heart is fractured you know and your heart is fractured i even thought you know i was joking to my sister one day you know you have to remove the car seats you know and i thought of all sorts of shit okay kate i thought so many things just so that i could make this go forward but of course 20 months later i released and publish my book huh what is it where did you get where did you get your strength from doing this so that

was 2016 and look at you now you lunch I know and yes so how so the book deal came right like a year before the divorce the book deal came a year before they had given me some money up from a publisher and I remember every like a year before the divorce, the book deal came a year before, they had given me some money up from a publisher. And I remember every like a year later, they're like, where's the book now? And I'm like, I'm working on it. I'm working. This is a book to teach people how to lead a meaningful life. My life is fucked up right now. Leave me alone. And the publisher's like, okay, you're right. We're packing up. So it took me a while to figure that piece out, to really look into how I want to write this book and thankfully the book was not part of the divorce settlement which is great but

but I what as you know when I published a book everything kind of changed for me it repositioned it's almost like I reinvented myself uh and it gave me a new way of looking at things and here I am trying to teach people how to create a meaningful life I really had to go through fire to figure that piece out so when I went out and started talking to people about creating impact creating meaning what is the value behind that and all that. I think people listen more because they go like, wow, this woman had gone through so much. We got to listen to what she has to say. And it became more authentic.

I wasn't even lying. I was just telling people, yeah, I have a bank statement here to show you that I had $2.15 left in my account. And then fast forward, you know, a lot more zeros behind that. But it was a long fight and a long journey but I also became very spiritual it's almost like I meditated a ton I just had to clear all of that and calm the hell down and be a present mom for my children of course yeah yeah um when you go through that tragedy I mean like really like hard whether it's business or family issues that's when you really think of what is important in your life right and you want

something more you know meaningful or more like more subtle I mean, I think when you go through that, you just don't want to do the hard thing. You just want to be gentle with yourself. Yes. And I think it helped me reset my moral compass. I have a whole new way of looking at things now. And even the way I interact with businesses and my clients, I'm very, very picky of who I work with. It's almost like I am very grounded in my conviction of how I want to do things. And you know, imagine that, Kate, when you, and I noticed that you and I are business people, we know when people can sniff desperation. We know there are people out there who, when times are bad, they get really desperate and they can be taken advantage of. And I had so many wolves around me. I've had had so many indecent proposal around me.

And at that time, I realized that, you know, I can't be making these decisions based on short term gain because whatever I'm doing is going to impact my children. I don't want them to look at me like, mama, what did you do? I wanted it to be like, mama, I'm so proud of you. So when I make those decisions, I realized that going through all that really gave me this perspective of what my moral compass is, what are the things that I will not do, what are the things that I enjoy doing, and what are the things that I welcome in my life. And then it got me to another set, like who are in my tribe that I can really trust that, you know, when you're in stress, when you're in PTSD mode, when you're in trauma, when you're in crisis, we make lousy decisions.

Not because we're not smart. Not because, you know, it's just that you have so much to deal with that even if you're at the most zen, your decision making is a little off and it's good to have people who are really there and not want anything from you but the best for your well-being for you and your children to be there to be kind of like a sounding board right to go like mel i don't think this is a good idea for you to do this and so until today i have those three people i call them my holy trinity because they all have very different different take but they're like my holy trinity when i have to make really challenging hardcore decisions i go to each one of them i get my input and then i make my decisions in a way where as long as it's still aligned with my core and i'm not compromising on anything it's a good one and of course sometimes i piss them off they're like you

don't listen and i'm like well i gotta process this because look, I've been, you know, independent since I was 19. I make my own decisions, you know. What are these three core person? Are they your mentor, your friends, or a colleague? So they are, I don't want to name names, but one of them is definitely, well, two of them. One of them is my sister, of course.

Always the one giving me the white rice, my sister. Till today, she'll order food when she knows I'm all over the world. I'll order you something to eat. So she's always taking care of me. And I have my writer whom I've been working with for 20 plus years. She is my go-to kind of North star, like my Zen person. And, and, you know, and, and these three people, and then of course my spiritual guru, I call him my Yoda. So I have these people who will guide me to make decisions based on,

you know, like my Yoda will always say things like make the decisions based on who you truly are. If you're about love, then make it out of love. Don't make it out of anger or hate. Right. And then, uh, my writer will be the one that is guiding me and going like, Hmm, is this impacting you now or is in the future? Like let's evaluate. And of course my sister is a protector. She's like the general, don't come here now unless you pass these tests so I have that uh you know and I collect mentors throughout the years to like people

always collect shoes and handbags I collect mentors I really go out and I seek them and I and I and I manifest them and they always appear and and they you know I love like you know a good friend Hazel right I consider her my mentor in many ways because i remember sitting out here and i would tell her i have so much on my plate and all she said was make your bloody plate bigger why is it so hard now i'm like you're right she's like you're just trying to shove everything in a little tiny bowl and i'm like you're right but it's just like having those really wise people around you that will just like shift your mindset just one degree and it's enough

for me and so i go around collecting these little nuggets and they are like my tribe yeah it's it's i mean we can't live without our tribe i mean i rely mean, I rely on EO, friends of EO, my forum mate, when you're in an emergency, like we need to have a community or else, you know, no one's going to help us. But no, exactly. And then no one to ask for help too, right? It's like, I'm such a proud person. No, I mean, you know what, as a woman, most of us in in the beginning I really don't like to ask help because I'm embarrassed but now that I'm more open of sharing your I mean you know whatever you need

you'll be surprised how many generous people that are willing to give you time and really great advice so like I have maybe 20 that I could just share, whatever that is. And it's nice to have a community right now. Yeah, and they don't judge you. That's the thing. You know, it's like putting yourself out there safely, right? In an environment where you feel safe, you feel supported. I think that's the key.

Because I think Brene Brown, she talked about how you don't take advice from people who haven't been in an arena. And then you only take it from people that haven't been there. I try to do that a lot. Because I know that I would ask advice from people who have taught my friends. And they're my friends. But they have not done this. They don't know what it's like to build something from scratch and to lose it all in a day.

They don't know what it's like when know when you have people depending on your under you know the paycheck to survive and they are taking care of other people's family and you just have all these things you know I'm being an entrepreneur that's the thing right people think it's so easy yes some days are easy no but you wake up and you still do it anyway with a smile you're so excited right because I'm I'm always excited I always wake up on my game change or I'm gonna do this you know oh this current so you can't need too much of this okay I love just hey that's why we can do this I know live and you know feeding kids at the same time that's why exactly I think you know I I have to bring this up about kids and and women in business

um when I there were three or four incidents that i can give an example a really quick one when i was pregnant with uh evan my first one um i didn't tell any of my clients that i was pregnant because i had just gotten this huge contract from comcast okay and i was really nervous because a lot of my friends were like you can't tell them that you're pregnant and then you're trying to take on this massive project and then so I didn't tell them but they saw me getting fatter and fatter because you know from shoulder up like as I was looking fatter and better on zoom calls right I was like oh my god they must know that I'm pregnant so finally um the morning when I my water broke I was hovering over the conference

table and I remember telling my ex and I'm like we're gonna download the zoom thing into this ipad thing because I'm going to the hospital right now we're gonna make sure that they can reach me and then he's like woman you're having a baby and I'm like yes but we have 50k coming in so we gotta make sure that we can do this and so I did did, I downloaded everything. I wasn't, you know, in my garb, you know, like in the hospital. And I was still taking calls. And then two days later, they're like, no, when you're in the hospital, when you were having conference call with this, I'm like, yeah, I gave birth to a nine pound baby. They were like, oh my God. I'm like, yeah, I'm a little loopy now. So let's keep this really short, but I'll get to uh you know the meeting tomorrow I I yeah I'm a lot of painkillers right now but it was great yeah that's that's how that's you know

that's how we roll right yeah and that's how you roll and I think over the years people were always saying that oh you know you work from home you can't manage multi-million dollar projects and I think because I kept on doing it, albeit having a child, albeit, you know, you know, just gave birth, and I still delivered, so I, I just wanted, you know, people to know that it can be done if you want to, I'm not asking, you know, you to go do that, because it's insane, because I was being very, like, you know, looking bad, I was like, I was not a responsible parent, you know, but I needed the money, because we were trying to buy a home. I needed the money. But yeah, it's all of that. And I remember one day a CFO of a public company called me and my youngest, the one that you just met, he had a meltdown and he was

knocking on the door because he wanted to see me. And I was on the call and he knocked himself and he was bloody, right? And then I was really embarrassed on the phone and the CFO said to me Mel I have three boys I work from home as well go take care of your child and we'll continue this call later okay and I was like oh my god you're the sweetest person like I I thought I gave myself that that you know stigma what it shouldn't have been like he was so nice about it i'm like oh well you should have said so then and now this is gonna be our this is gonna be our new norm that's why this is the new norm now it's okay to mess up and be a little unpolished at times it's okay but I was so hard on myself I was

it's so stressed out and I asked me to Danny please you know calm him down and then at the end of the day he's like I don't care you need to go take care of your child oh my god this call people are gonna text him Mel is a lousy mother all right I have a last question here. How do you, what do you see your, as your place or purpose in life? I just know that after all that has happened in my life, you know, all of it, ups and downs, being a hungry child, being broke and rebuilt and being broke again, and then having to rebuild at the age of, I don't know, 38, close to 40 years old, having to redo all of that again. I don't think that it was, I think it's a blessing. And I just say that in many ways it's it's a blessing um that it has

given me this and I hate to use this word but I almost felt like I have superpowers now like I am blessed and I wake up every morning and I feel like I need to offer hope, light, and actionable insights to help others in every way I can. And whether or not it's through my work, my book, my keynote, or my designs, I just feel like I need to bring that. You know, I wake up every day and I'm so blessed, Kate, in so many, I still have my eyesight. I have my limbs active. I have my breath.

You know, in Buddhism, it's like we always believe that your breaths are being granted. And I, you know, so I'm being granted this ability to breathe and I have beautiful kids. So, and I have, of course, roof over my head and white rice. I have beautiful kids so and I have of course roof over my head and white rice right plenty of white rice now we can survive in white rice yes I love white rice a little spam will be enough but and and I've been given this almost a second chance and I want to be able to use every moment to be productive.

You know, people always ask me, like, what is your intrinsic motivator, right? Like, I always feel like it's, for me, it's time. Like, I feel like when I wake up, I just think that the first thing I do when I wake up is I text my writer, we must do this now. And she's like, oh, there it is again. But there's not enough time you know I I through and then through this deep meditation and breathing and the more I become aware of my surrounding my motivation has become intrinsically tied to the universe I know I'm very woo I'm sorry it's just no no I I'm into that and I yeah it clarity. Yes. And I feel like there is this urgency that's nagging at me in the morning and it really pushes me and compel me to do something and accomplish it within the amount of time that

I have during the day. And of course I look at my children and I feel even more urgency to leave them a world that's beautiful and loving and kind, you know, not only as a mom, but I feel like as a global citizen, we have to do that, right? We have to, we have to have this conscious awareness, a broader sense of purpose, not just my daily purpose, but a broader sense of purpose to create and elevate consciousness. And I know I've been telling people, you know, meditate, you know, this is like global meditation a few days ago. But, but yes, I, and, and I don't know if that answers your question. But yes, that's, that's my motivation. I love that. Well, I'm so glad to have you here. And I know you are going to share you get, you told me you're going to do some summit with Andrea.

Yes. Where is that at? Okay. So, you know, this, we're in this really unprecedented times right now. And a lot of people are afraid. A lot of people are scared, fear, all those words, right? All those words and words have power. And I try not to use them unnecessarily,

but as a descriptor, those are the things that are happening in the world and people are feeling that. And I don't want to undermine that feeling. Now, I know that you had asked me, like, you know, what, what scares me the most, right? In this, in this COVID situation. And I feel, you know, like a parent, I always worry about my children's well-being, given COVID or not. That's my number one fear for them is like, are they okay? Are they eating okay? You know, they have enough food, you know, are they feeling good? But here are the things. I do feel extreme pain and compassion for our world. And I feel that I need to do something positive in every moment to improve this improve this energy right and this is going to take a collective effort and I and I want this

collective effort to be rigorous to be collaborative and I you know and even Kate like even in the past few weeks we have all these people throwing webinars, virtual happy hours and people like hours and hours of drinking and complaining. And I couldn't handle that. I wanted things to be more actionable. I wanted a framework on how to bring clear optimism, pure altruism and hope into this discussion. So my team and I are putting together this summit called the Futurum Forum. This Futurum Forum is, it's a, it's a complimentary forum. We have great, great amazing speakers who are contributing their time to be our panelists.

And it's done virtually and it's going to have about, who are contributing their time to be our panelists. And it's done virtually. And it's going to have about five key panelists and an amazing keynote speaker, by the way. And then we're going to talk about resiliency, reimagining the new world. We're going to talk about heart-based leadership. And then I'm opening up the floor to other experts and thought leaders to host and facilitate roundtable discussion. I want to bring them in to give them an opportunity to share their thoughts.

And this is all done virtually using this new platform called Remo. And the only thing I'm asking for people to do is to contribute to the Doctors Without Borders fund that I'm trying to raise. I'm trying to raise about 10,000. And all of my speakers and facilitators agree that they want to offer this for free, but they just want the donation made to all of our amazing doctors out there.

So the event is on April 23rd. It's about 11 a.m. Pacific time. I have about 200 seats available. And we're accepting application. It's an open thing. It's just that we need to accommodate a lot of people right now. But we want to empower small business owners like you and myself because we're the backs of the economy we're job creators

i want people uh to leave having this hope that they can visualize and create new changes that can be celebrated. So that's where I'm at. Well, that's amazing for you creating that. And that's so meaningful. And we all needed that. So if you can give us the link. So we can invite people. I would love to be part of it.

Something that's, you know, I love that. Doctors, I've seen some in the TV. Yes, Doctors Without Borders are like the organization where they, you know, all these amazing doctors are volunteering their services and their time and expertise to the world. You know, we're not just talking about this pandemic being in the US, but it's all over the world. and I've always had this really deep admiration for the work that they do, because I know that I can't handle anything that is remotely, you know, like I'm going to do with bodily functions, but I just have so much respect for them, and they are truly our heroes right now, and whatever it takes, right? You know, I was talking to my team today.

How do we know that people are going to give money? And I'm like, we got to trust. We got to trust that we're putting out good energy. That we're doing this for people. That we're bringing in all these amazing people to speak and share their insights for free. Because these people typically charge a ton of money, right? The keynote. They're doing it as,

you know, because they want this to be better for others. This is not, this is not the time for us to be nitpicking right now. We just want a collective effort and we hope that people will donate, you know, to our cause here. So I'm hopeful.

I'm always hopeful. I'll get to share your link and Mel where what where can they find you if you could give us yes so my they can find me on my website and I have two websites melim.com is spelled m-e-l-l-i-m-m as in mary.com and then they can also find my consulting website called Maspera Group. It's M-A-S-P-I-R-A-G-R-O-U-P-E, masperagroup.com. You can find me on social. It's Melim Sovereign. There's a whole story behind there because I always feel like I have now got my sovereign team post the divorce, post colonization and yes i'm on my own now uh yeah so i i ping me and we can discuss about it i would love uh to get more speakers for our next summit i'm already playing next summit we are looking for anyone that has connection to uh navy seal type of leadership

training if you guys know of an ex-naavy SEAL guy or maybe a current Navy SEAL guy that has gone through really, really aggressive, tough training amidst chaos, I'm searching for that. I'm searching for high performers who are like they've been in the trenches and they know how to navigate that. And I want to learn from them how how they can respond because the whole idea of leadership right now is how to respond recover and thrive in a very short amount of time and under extreme circumstances right now so that's what I'm trying to learn for myself even yeah well thank you so much I'm so honored to have you here and thank you for spending your time and for being open I appreciate you okay okay thank you thank you we hope you enjoyed the show don't forget to rate review and subscribe and visit katehancock.com so you don't miss out on the next episode