Founder's Story - The Real Reason You Can’t Focus and What to Do About It | Ep. 331 with Nir Eyal NYT Best Selling Author

Episode Date: March 27, 2026

Daniel Robbins interviews Nir Eyal about how beliefs filter reality and why changing a single limiting belief can be the highest leverage move a founder can make. Nir explains why positive thinking and manifesting can backfire, how mental contrasting prepares you for the pain of the process, and why pain is data while suffering is optional. The episode also explores the dangers of over labeling, the placebo effect as proof that beliefs can influence biology, and a simple relationship tool Nir uses with his wife to avoid conflict and clarify what matters. Key Discussion Points Nir explains that beliefs are tools, not facts and not faith, and that our attention is a tiny pinhole compared to the flood of information the brain processes, which is why beliefs shape what we call reality. He challenges the self help idea of manifesting by citing research that focusing only on end goals can reduce follow through, and introduces mental contrasting as a way to prepare for the discomfort required to achieve outcomes. The conversation dives into labels and identity, including ADHD and neurodivergence, and why diagnoses can help as a map but become harmful when they turn into a fixed identity. Nir walks Daniel through a real time spiral about a deal falling through, showing how inquiry can expose the limiting belief underneath and replace it with a more useful response before the fear escalates. He shares a practical marriage tool, the one to ten importance rating, to reveal hidden priority gaps and prevent fights by letting the person who cares more lead the decision. Takeaways If you only chase the outcome, you lose momentum, but if you prepare for the discomfort of the journey, you build resilience and execution. Pain is unavoidable when you do hard things, but suffering comes from judging reality and demanding it be different, so the lever is changing interpretation not eliminating difficulty. Be careful with identity labels, because the brain will defend them and you will start living down to them, so treat labels as temporary maps, not permanent definitions. When fear shows up, catch it early with a prepared belief tool, such as “this is happening for me,” so your mind does not default to catastrophe and self limitation. A simple way to reduce relationship conflict is to quantify importance, because most disagreements are not equal priority once you ask. Closing Thoughts This episode is a practical reset for founders who feel trapped in their own thinking patterns. Nir Eyal makes the case that the fastest way to change outcomes is to change the belief tools shaping attention, interpretation, and behavior. If you can spot the limiting belief early, you can stop the spiral and reclaim your agency in a world that feels increasingly uncontrollable. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's so great to have you back near. We had a phenomenal conversation last time. And I've watched so many of your recent videos. You have a new book that's out Beyond Belief, which I have to say, when I was 12 years old, I was diagnosed with OCD. And part of having OCD, I think, majorly impacted my belief system. So to this day, if I looked at what is my trait, like the one. thing that I want to change. So one thing I want to get better at, and if you ask my wife 100%,

she would say, I definitely have a negative belief system that I think really holds me back in life. So I'm sure I'm going to learn a lot today, and I can't wait to dive in. But why right now is this book so important? Yes. I think this is the moment when I needed this book most. You know, I don't write books because of what I know. I wrote write books because of what I want to know. So I went on this six-year quest to try and answer this question about how beliefs shape our reality. Because I think that in a time of extreme uncertainty, where we have what's going to happen with AI, geopolitical uncertainty, economic uncertainty, we need ways to find control over our existence or else we go crazy. When we think about all the things that are outside of our control,

when we believe we have to do something about those things that are uncontrollable, we can, can literally burn out. We can drive ourselves mad. And so what I was looking for was to access what's the the greatest point of leverage that I can have to improve my life that's in my control. And it turns out that if you can identify what we call limiting beliefs and turn them into liberating beliefs, that is the greatest point of leverage to accomplish your goals, to unleash what you're capable of doing, to meet your full potential, to decrease your suffering and increase your motivation. Wow. How do I do that? Where do I start? Okay. Well, I'll tell you what it is not about. So it's not about magical thinking. It's not about

chakras. It's not about necessarily the, you know, vibrating at the frequency of the universe and all that. So I'm very science-based and everything that I do is backed by peer-reviewed studies. There's over 30 pages of peer-reviewed citations. And so it's nothing magical whatsoever. That in fact, unfortunately, I think the the self-help industry has led many people stray by preaching this gospel of, well, just think positive, right? Just manifest. And I think that actually has some really negative consequences. And the research backs this up that it's not just about the end goals,

but rather it's about the means, that you have to prepare yourself for the inevitable pain that comes from that journey to get what you want. That if you just think about the ends, you're never going to get them. That what they've done studies where they connect people to, blood pressure monitors as they are thinking about a future outcome. I want a beach body. I want money. I want love in my life. Whatever it is. And it turns out that you become less likely to do the things you have to do to get those things when you only think about the ends. When you think about the vision boarding and the manifesting, it actually can backfire. So a much smarter way in the

way that I am promoting is called mental contrasting, where you're preparing for the pain. that pain is just a signal. It's just data, just information. And we have a tremendous amount of information at our disposal. In fact, our brains are processing 11 million bits of information per second. That's the equivalent of reading war and peace every second twice. So you have tons of information entering your brain, but your conscious mind can only process about 50 bits of information.

So you're seeing life through this tiny pinhole of attention, and you call it reality when it isn't. that in fact that we don't see reality clearly because we can't. Reality is filtered based on our beliefs. And so if you get the right beliefs, if you're able to identify the beliefs that serve you rather than hurt you, that's how you unlock your real potential. And so it's a process.

It's, you know, I like to call limiting beliefs are like your face. That your face, you know, everybody has a face, and you can see other people's faces just like you can see other people's limiting beliefs. You can probably say how your spouse and your coworkers and your parents, all of them, you can see their limitations, and their limiting beliefs, but you can't see your own. Just like if I were to say, look at your face. How do you look at your face?

You can't look at your face. You need a mirror. You need to reflect in order to see your face in order to see your limiting beliefs. So there's a process to go through in order to uncover those limiting beliefs and turn them into liberating one. I'm so glad you say this because I don't like to manifest.

And I feel like... You don't have to... Thank you. Because people keep telling me manifest. I'm like, I don't know. I manifest it. I recommend against it, actually. No, I appreciate it.

that. I appreciate that. And something you've said, too, beliefs aren't facts and they aren't faith. Right. That they're tools. And something that got me thinking was, when I think of something, to me, it feels like a truth. Because I'm believing it. It feels like a truth. And I think that's held me back because my limiting beliefs feel like their truth to me. It's so common. Now, you are not alone at all, Daniel. This is this is, this is, super common. Why is this? Because it turns out the brain hates changing its mind. The brain hates changing its mind. Why? Because what has evolution given us? Evolution has given us a brain that doesn't want you to flourish. It doesn't want you to be happy. It doesn't care about any of that stuff. All it wants to do is to keep you safe, to keep you alive so you can procreate. That's it.

So your default state is not to get you to a point where you're fulfilling your full potential. Now, thankfully, we know how to do better than our hardwiring would indicate that, in fact, if you just go back to your defaults of, well, that belief served me in the past. So that's what I'm going to continue to believe where you never do anything great. Why? Because everything worth having in life is on the other side of some difficulty. You want to have a fit body? I used to be clinically obese. Let me tell you, it takes work.

It takes some discomfort. You want to build a family. I got a 17-year-old and I've been married for 25 years. it's going to take some discomfort. You want to build a business, you want to write a book, it takes effort. Now, the good news is that pain is not suffering. This is a super important concept that blew my mind. It took me a long time to understand. Pain is not suffering. Remember we talked about that 11 million bits of information that, you know, war in peace every second that your brain is conscious of, the light entering your retinas, the sound of my voice in your ears,

the ambient temperature of the room. Your brain can take in all that information, but it can't see reality clearly. And so it's processing all that information. It's just not aware of it. So instead, you can use that pinhole of attention to decide what you let in and what you don't let in to your conscious awareness. And so that actually is very much in your control. So what that allows you to do is to say that pain, that difficulty of doing that hard thing that gets me what I really want, that's just data. Just data. It's just information. It's my interpretation of that signal that causes suffering, that causes me to quit, that causes me to give up, that caused me to not get my long-term goals. And so you think it's just mindset and woo-woo and hocus-pocus, it's not.

That it literally can define who feels physical pain. We know that chronic pain, it turns out, is caused by exactly what I'm describing. It's called the fear, pain, fear, loop. that you have some kind of fear, typically caused by actual damage, then that fear perpetuates pain. That pain perpetuates more fear, which perpetuates more pain. And so it turns out that we can actually create pain and suffering in our lives where it doesn't necessarily have to exist. And that's psychological as well as physiological. And I know you've said labels become our limits, which kind of makes me, when you talk about pain, this makes me think of the limits I've been putting

on myself like it's just my luck or that's just how I am. I feel like we do that a lot. And so how do I, how do I rewrite the script, I guess, or how do I not automatically go to this? Like when something happens, I'm like, well, that's just my luck. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, you know, I didn't answer your last question, but this brings it up perfectly. What is the difference between fact, faith, and belief? So a fact is an objective truth. It is something that is true whether or not you believe it. The world is more like a sphere than it is flat. Sorry, flat earthers.

It's a fact. Faith is a conviction that does not require evidence. God rewards the righteous. There is no amount of evidence that I can give to someone who has faith in that statement because no evidence is required. Belief is somewhere in the middle. Belief is not fact. Belief is not faith.

Belief is a conviction that is open to revision based on new evidence. So unlike facts and faith, beliefs can change. The problem is that too many of us think that what we take as faith is a fact and don't understand that what we think is a fact is nothing more than a belief. So someone's saying, that's just my luck. I'm no good at this. I'm not a mourning person. I'm a satirious.

I'm a whatever. I have ADHD, even, which I do. You start to create that as a label, whether or not it is true. I would tell myself, let me tell you about my ADHD diagnosis. So I got an ADHD diagnosis. And for years, I would say, I have a chronic condition. That's not going to get better because that's what I've been told, that it's a chronic condition. Now, I don't, I'm not a doctor.

From what I understand of ADHD, looking at the literature, there's a lot of controversy out there. And yet we fill people with these diagnoses unchecked. There's nobody saying, hey, maybe we should cool off on these diagnoses. if you go try and go get an ADHD diagnosis, you can do it on the app these days. It's incredibly easy to get one. Did you know in the United Kingdom, more people are neurodivergent than not?

That a third of Stanford students are neurodivergent? Stanford students. Like, is that not surprising? Like, we've tossed around these labels. Not that I'm anti-diagnoses, right? I think that they do have a place. And people, I'm going to get kicked off your show soon for saying something. It's going to be very unpopular.

But I'm telling you, we're going to look back. in five, maybe 10, hopefully not 20 years, and we're going to realize that this was a huge mistake, that we weigh over-diagnose and do not prepare people for how harmful, how harmful these labels can be, that we need to be very careful because our labels can become our limits. So for me, here's what happened. I'll just tell you personal experience. I would spin myself out about the label, about the diagnosis, there's my ADHD again, and it's always going to be a chronic condition, and what if I never get better at this,

and am I always going to struggle? Am I always going to be behind? Is it always going to be harder for me? And I would make up these limiting beliefs about what I could do. And now what happened, Daniel, instantly as I'm thinking about my limitations? I'm not thinking about the work. I'm not thinking about the thing that I actually need to get done. And every time I was distracted, my brain would go over to this limitation.

As opposed to, it's a map, right? That a diagnosis is a map. It's you're here. You're trying to get there. and yeah, you're at a different place than other people might be. Okay, we all are. Now, it could be that you have certain conditions that make it a little bit more difficult here and there,

so your path might be a little bit further. The problem was, I was becoming the map. This diagnosis became my identity, but it's not useful. It wasn't helping me. As opposed to now, I don't tell myself, oh, I have ADHD, it's a chronic condition, I'm never going to get better.

I'm never going to start spinning out. Instead, I say, I'm learning another skill. This is an opportunity to get better. And eventually I would learn that skill and get better. For example, I learned that I've written three bestsellers. You know what I learned? That when I'm really into a topic, I'm in it. Like I'm hyper-focused.

When I find a topic, I'm in. Now, when I have to do boring stuff, I don't want to do, okay, yeah, I get distractible. But also, so does everybody. Right. Like, it's a skill you overcome. It's a skill you can learn. Not that I'm anti-doagnosis or anti-pills or whatever. I'm not a doctor.

This is a medical advice. But it's a great example of how our beliefs can actually become our biology. Let me tell you a very quick story that I think will illustrate the point. There was a guy in the medical literature who was anonymized, and he's called Mr. A is how he's named in this study. Now, Mr. A has a very bad breakup with his girlfriend, and he decides he wants to commit suicide. So he takes an entire pill jar of antidepressants. He downs them all, and just as he finishes swallying the last pill, he decides he wants to live after all. He runs to his neighbor's house.

They take him to the ER. When he gets to the hospital, he collapses on the floor. He's rushed to the operating room. They're trying to figure out what medicine did he overdose on. And they notice that his blood pressure is dangerously low. His heart rate is falling. And they take the pill jar that he brought to show them what medicine he took. And they look on the jar of antidepressants.

And it doesn't say what brand of antidepressants. It has a phone number. They call the phone number. They get the other person on the line. The person on the other line tells them that Mr. A, was enrolled in a clinical trial of antidepressants. And in fact, he hadn't taken the antidepressants at all because he was in the placebo group.

And yet, the idea that he had overdosed on antidepressants had caused these physical symptoms of dangerously low blood pressure, falling heart rate, he was falling in and out of consciousness because he believed that something was happening in his body prompted from these antidepressants, which he hadn't taken. He had taken placebo pills, which were completely inert. They tell him this, that he'd taken the dysplasibos, in 15 minutes, Daniel. He's off the gurney, his heart rate is stabilized, his blood pressure is fine, he walks out the door, completely healthy, maybe a little embarrassed. So if the idea that our biology

is doing something, whether or not it is, is so powerful that it can make a man sick this way, Are you telling me that putting in these notions of our labels that we're this or that also doesn't have similar effects? Of course it does. We know it does. Yeah. I think it's easy to label somebody when you don't have that label. But when you're labeled, I think you're like, I don't want to be labeled. A therapist told me that a long time ago, they said, you might have been diagnosed with something, but that doesn't mean you are that something. And that really changed my mind. I think I was like 18 years old. This changed my. It's a change. my life of like, maybe I don't have to be something. So I'm, I'm with you. And like you're saying, I'm not a doctor, nor do I give medical advice. But I do also agree that we over-label things. And it's

way different when you are the one being labeled, which then is like limiting you to being this thing. You talk about this Yale study when it comes to aging and positive thinking. I couldn't believe that this was true. Can you tell me about it? Of course. Yeah, absolutely. It's shocking that there was a study done at Yale that people who have positive views of aging in their 30s end up living seven and a half years longer. Now, to put that in perspective, seven and a half years longer, that is greater than the effect of diet. It's greater than the effect of exercise. It's greater than the effect of stopping smoking. It is an incredibly powerful effect just by having positive views about aging. Now, what does that sound like? A negative view of aging would be some of something like, I'm having a senior moment. Aging involves inevitable decline. We've all heard that or thought that, right? All the time.

We just say it all the time in society. Whereas a positive view of aging is something like growth is possible at any age. Something as simple as that. Growth is possible at any age. Now, which one's true? Aging involves inevitable decline or growth is possible at any age? They're both true. But here's the difference that one of them

leads to certain types of behaviors and the other leads to other behaviors. That if I have a positive view of aging, that growth is possible at any age, how likely am I to volunteer in my community, to go to the gym, to go see friends, to take care of myself in a way that's different. So it's not that there's some kind of magic,

you know, the mitochondria in my body are changing because I have, you know, positive vibrations. No, that's not what's happening at all. It's that people who have a positive view of age, behave differently and their behavior becomes their biology. I'm learning a lot today. I have to say, I'm learning a lot, and I appreciate this, because I want to have more positive thinking.

I feel like every time I have positive thinking, something happens, and I go extreme. It's crazy near, like really great things could happen, and my positive thinking slightly goes up, right? Like, if I'm at a 40, it goes to a 50. One bad thing, or what I think is, as bad happens, I go from 50 down to negative 20.

Zero to 100, so fast. And it drives people around me crazy and they don't get it. They can't understand. But for me, when something bad happens or something happens, I automatically think of the extreme to where I'm like, I'm thinking 15 steps

past that. Let's just say something happens in business. I automatically think like, oh my gosh, if this one partnership doesn't go through, that means I'm not going to make revenue for this month and next month and three months. And if I don't make revenue, that means I'm going to have to go out of business. And I might even be homeless. Like, that's like how my mind thinks from one thing. Yeah. All right. Let's do it. Let's do it. So what's the limiting belief there? What's the belief that you

think is a fact that is causing you suffering? I can't. I guess the limiting belief is that I won't be successful. Okay. That's awesome. That if I, if I, I'm not successful, that's bad. Is there any way the opposite could also be true? I guess it could be a learning thing. Failure could lead to learning or something happens and I lead to learning. But also, I guess, it hasn't equated to not being successful. It's just one small thing. Oh, okay, amazing. I mean, so you could start with a surface level thing or you could go as many layers deep as you want. Like literally, I've, you know, using this technique, it's called inquiry-based stress reduction, which is where we keep inquiring, down, down, down, okay, what's really the thing that's causing me suffering?

You know, you could do this all the way to, I could be homeless, and, well, I won't have any friends, and, and I could die, and you see, it's just data. It's just data. It's our ceaseless desire to judge, judge, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad. I don't like this, I don't like that, I don't like that. Because our brain's doing it for us. Our brain wants to protect us. our brain is trying to keep us safe. So it tries to keep us as far away from anything potentially bad. And we become less because of it. We worry.

We're anxious. We don't try. We don't put ourselves out there because we're so judgmental about everything. Let's take the worst case scenario. You die. Okay, you're dead. It already happened. So?

Like, that's how far you can. Not that we're not wishing that. We don't want that. But literally, let's take it to the logical conclusion. Okay, now let's zoom up. Zoom up. That business deal doesn't go through. Okay. You're miles away from homelessness and death. You're in a different planet. But let's, okay, now, so we went and we agree that if you're dead, you're dead, who cares? Okay. Like, even being homeless could be a potential learning experience.

Again, we're not wishing it. We don't want it. We should help the homeless. I'm not saying anything that contradicts any of that. I'm just saying that is also a judgment that that would be a bad thing. It's that all suffering comes from wanting reality. to be something it's not. That's what suffering is. Suffering is that person should behave differently. I wish they would change. So I'm not going to be happy until they change. That thing should have happened differently. And I'm not going to, I'm going to keep suffering until it changes. That's where suffering comes from. So you don't get that business deal. I can think about 20 different reasons why that would be amazing. Because we didn't get that deal, that opens up another potential opportunity.

Now you get to spend more time with your family. Now you get to start that other business you've always wanting to be doing. You know what? At the end of the day, good. I hope. you don't get the business deal. Because think about all the things you might learn if that business deal didn't happen. You know the crazy thing is? Every time I don't get a business deal, it turns out that I never really would have worked well with that person anyways. But it's just, but even though it happens every time, I still get concerned about it.

Like you say, so here's why. My brain is quiet. Yeah. No, don't say that. That's a limiting belief. I'm limited. See? No, well, you're, you're doing it again.

Okay, so you might be in a severe case here, which is good because that means you need the book. When we cast that die, that I am this, I am that. That's like, that's one of those trigger words that we should be very, very careful of that's pointing us to a limiting belief. I always do that or there I go again or that's impossible or I keep doing that. These are all limitations. So the reason it's happening, I know exactly why it's happening. you don't have a response to that limiting belief. You hear it in your head.

You hear this isn't going to go well. And the only place it goes is spiraling down, down, down, down, down. That's where it goes to. So if this happens and this bad thing is going to happen, this guy, then all these things are going to happen. I'm going to be homeless and dead. Right? You see how quickly it went in your mind.

Whereas you need to catch it early that when you, it always starts with fear. It's always fear. Fear is your brain's trigger to, tell you why you shouldn't do something. And sometimes that manifests in physical pain. This is the source of chronic pain. It's always fear.

So what you need is a limiting belief that you can always refer back to, like a secular prayer, like a little mantra, that you can constantly bring up whenever you hear that little voice that tells you're not ready, you're not good at this, this is going to hurt. And so one I could suggest to you,

I recommend you make your own. I'll tell you one that I've used constantly. that whenever I get stressed about what if this, what if that, I constantly repeat to myself, this is happening for me, not to me. This is happening for me. I didn't invent that. I got it from somebody else. I don't even remember who anymore.

Oh, my brother told me. And I'm sure he got from somebody else. This is happening for me. It's happening for me, right? Just like you said, you said it so perfectly. You know what? Every time I've missed out on a business deal, turns out I didn't want to do business with that person anyway.

You should give them a big hug. Thank you for not giving me that deal. because it turns out I dodged a bullet, right? It's great. So I want you from now on, whenever you feel that pain of, this isn't going to work out, and that's bad, I want you to say,

this may not work out. Awesome, because it's happening for me. Now, do I know that for a fact? Do I know that there's some kind of cosmic purpose for you? No. And I'm not going to tell you some story just so that it makes you feel better. Rather, I'm going to ask you

to adopt a belief, that you find to be a better tool. I don't have to concoct quantum whatever vibrations, the secret, all that stuff. You don't need that. You can just say to yourself, I don't know, right? The future is unknowable. And so I'm going to choose the tool that fits for this job. Just like a carpenter doesn't say, oh, the hammer.

The hammer is the one and only true tool because one time I worked on a job and I used a hammer is really good, so I'm only going to use hammers from now on. No. So you're using a belief that you've always used. Time to pick up a different tool. Thank you. See, I did mention the beginning. This was going to be a tough one for you, but you cracked it.

I appreciate that. I need the book. I need the book like right now. I love that you and your wife wrote it, and I believe from what I read that you've been together for over 25 years. Was there something writing a book together and writing a book together about beliefs or limiting beliefs. Was there something that you two learned either about each other or learned about your relationship? Well, you know, okay, I'll give you a very practical tool. There's a lot. We could do a whole

episode about, I think, a secrets to a good marriage. A lot of it has to do with beliefs. A lot of it has to do with acknowledging that you don't see reality clearly, right? If you're only seeing that 50 bits of information when we're processing 11 million bits, you don't even see your own reality clearly. You're going to tell me you think you're going to try and get in someone's head and tell them what they meant when they said that. Impossible. Impossible. You cannot compute someone else's intentions.

As much as you try, you don't know. You can't even see your own reality clearly. How can you see theirs? But I'll give you a very careful, I'll give you a very practical tool that we use all the time that I think has been awesome, is we try and assess how important something is to one of us. So we don't fight. We've been married now 25 years in September.

And sometimes I get this question and like I tell people, we don't fight. We disagree, but we never fight. There's never that. And the secret to that of why we don't, we don't even argue, to be honest. We have conversations because like I so value her perspective that of course I, if she thinks differently for me, amazing. That's like a huge asset that we have different perspectives because now I can see reality more clearly. It's a gift, not something to be feared. So one thing we've done in order to better assess what is unspoken,

is to ask each other's simple question. So when we have a difference of opinion on something and I say, hey, I'd really like it to be this way and she says, you know, no, I want it to be that way. We ask ourselves, well, do a one to ten for me on that. Do a one to ten for me on that. What does that mean? Let's say, where do we go out for dinner or there's parenting. That's actually a much better example of like, you know, when you have kids, I don't know

if you have, you and your wife may have a disagreement of how to raise the kid one way or the other. And she says, no, no, no, I really think they shouldn't eat too much sugar. And you say, no, no, sugar's fine. We do it. We ask each other, what's your one to ten on that? So if, and what it turns out, there's usually almost every time a huge gap. Whereas the person says, hey, I, you know, I wanted to be this way. And the other person says, no, I wanted to be that way. Oftentimes, one person is an eight and the other person is a two on how important that is. So done deal. No need for an argument or disagreement. The person who cares deeply about that issue, just do what they want because they care way deeply on it. It's only the small minority

I would say it's maybe 10% of the time where you're close together, you know, where it's a seven and an eight or a six or a five. If it's anything less than a five, who cares? Just like toss a coin. But if it's more than a five and you're close, that's the only stuff you actually have a discussion about. Everything else, you know, what color should the couch be? Where should we go with your parents this year? Like all that stupid stuff. If you care more about it, let's just do it your way. That doesn't mean you do the work. Let's just be very clear. It doesn't mean you do the work. It means that let's go with what you prefer. I appreciate that because I like to tell people too, we don't, my wife and I don't argue, we don't get into fights. We just passionately communicate.

And I think when people around us, especially when we go to Southeast Asia, it's very prominent. When we have people around us, they sometimes they're a little shock because they're not as vocal many times, depending on on the country right they they don't always speak their minds so much and we're like look we're not arguing we're just passionately communicating and i think that's why it's successful for us is because we communicate no matter what and we appreciate the communication final question for you because i know you have to go on date night too which is another board nights tonight i guess final final question we can make it short so i wrote this book unlimited possibilities because i i hope people will be able to break through barriers in their life and have what I call an unlimited, unlimited possibility moment.

What was that moment for you when you broke through a barrier in your life that you didn't think was possible? Well, this just happened yesterday, so it's top of mind, but we made the New York Times bestseller list, which is something that I had resigned myself to not thinking was a possibility because it was a, it wasn't in my control. And so I wasn't worrying about it. With my previous books, I really, really wanted it. But with, with beyond belief, I just, I stopped caring because I decided, look, if it's not my control, why should I suffer? Why should I suffer? That what I can control is I can sit down every day and I can work on my book.

I can control that. I can control my beliefs about the process. Is this hard? Am I suffering from it? But I can't control what people think at the New York Times. Turns out we did get the New York Times list, which is amazing. But it was a nice surprise. It wasn't anything I was staking my happiness or suffering on.

Well, near I, y'all, I mean, not only are you an incredible human being, you are dedicated, you're dedicating your life. And I've only written one book. I don't know if I'll ever write another book. Like, anyone who writes books, hats off to them. It is a process. Like, it is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. And I don't think I could do it again. So for someone to do three books, finally hit New York Times bestseller, which I think you totally deserved. I think everyone would say the same. But it also shows you. you how good of a human you are to dedicate yourself. And I hope everyone picks up beyond belief. I'm guessing it's everywhere. Every store online, people can get it. That's right. Yeah, Audible, eBook, whatever, whatever format, whatever marketplace you like. Awesome. Neer. Thanks, thanks again for joining us. Always great to have you. Likewise. Thank you so much. This is great.