Founder's Story - Tour Bus CEO: "I Bought 12 Buses In COVID. Now Beyoncé's Crew Rides With Us" | Ep. 451 with Rich Thomson Founder of Dreamliner Luxury Coaches

Starting point is 00:00:00 I put pretty much everything we had in our life and savings into this business. We have the buses that take the people. We have the trucks that take the stages. We have the trucks that take the rest of the production equipment. Rich Thompson went from working his parents' yogurt shop to owning the biggest entertainment transportation company in the industry. Over 225 coaches, 70 plus trucks, 600 employees, Beyonce, Bad Bunny, Drake, and he built it in six years. What made you think that this was going to be a good idea?

Starting point is 00:00:32 Because everyone's afraid to spend, invest, and think the world's going to end. That just leaves opportunity out there for someone willing to invest. The real way you prove yourself is what do you do in my... Rich, you went from as a kid helping your parents in a yogurt shop to then working with names such as Beyonce, Bad Bunny, Billy Eilish, Drake, and I show speed. What's the feeling you get when I say that? I mean, it's pretty cool. It's pretty fun. It's pretty cool.

Starting point is 00:01:05 Did you ever think that you would buy a business in COVID time, which is wild? I mean, that's only less than six years ago to now growing it to what it is today. No. I mean, it's all been, I've been very fortunate and very blessed. And I had no idea something like this would happen. I was actually focused in a whole other direction, starting a whole other company when I first learned of the industry. And I've just been, like I said, very blessed. So the live entertainment business, I imagine, was almost completely shut down. What made you think that this was going to be a good idea?

Starting point is 00:01:40 Well, I learned about the industry in 2019 when I looked at a company that needed some capital. And my fund that I had started in 19 was an opportunity to invest. And unfortunately, I did not invest then. But during COVID, I got an opportunity to buy 12 coaches. And because I had spent, you know, a couple months doing diligence and learning about the industry in 2019. I was familiar with it. Really thought it was an interesting business, had a lot of kind of investment parameters that I thought were intriguing. And so to me, it was a large risk to buy 12 buses and spend that kind of money.

Starting point is 00:02:18 But it was what I felt. I felt the world would start again. And I thought it would be a great kind of side hustle or investment to buy some buses and then just to meet some out to the music industry. Do you find that that's when you get the best. biggest opportunity is when the market is down, everyone thinks whatever it is, it might die or it might not come back, but you can come in and get a better deal. Yeah, I think that, I mean, that's where a lot of big businesses and huge opportunities are, right? Because everyone's afraid to spend, invest and think the world's going to end. And that just leaves opportunity

Starting point is 00:02:57 out there for someone willing to invest. Now, it's a gam. It can be a gamble and it can take, It's a higher level of risk to take, but I've kind of lived most of my life in the risk reward game. And so I looked at it as, yeah, high risk, but it could be very high reward. And it's turned out that way. What type of due diligence did you have to do to really ensure that you were comfortable with this? Well, not a lot when I bought the buses, but I spent a good amount of time when we were

Starting point is 00:03:20 looking to invest in a tour bus business back in 19. So we spent a lot of time with how the business works, supply demand, the manufacturers, competitors and what the industry looked like. So I was pretty familiar with it. And it was definitely rare to have an opportunity to buy 12 of these things. Because even if you could buy one or buy one or two, you need some to be out to actually run a business and start a tour. You need to actually have enough coaches to do that.

Starting point is 00:03:52 And 12 made sense. So you went from 12 to over 225 and now you have 70 plus trucks. Talk to me about the scaling process. When did you realize, okay, we need to get more buses and then we need to get into trucks. We need to diversify among obviously different revenue streams. Well, I'd love to tell you I had a magic wand that I knew to do it, but I didn't. Most of these opportunities kind of came my way as I learned the industry and met more people in the industry. You know, the first acquisition I made of Diamond Coach in 2022, you know, I'd spent a lot of time leveraging and talking to the founders.

Starting point is 00:04:30 there to Kylie. And she was very helpful. She had been through a lot. And that opportunity kind of just came through, you know, kind of regular conversation with her at one point. She said, you know what? I'm kind of over this. I've been doing it 20 years. Why don't you just buy my company? And we had teased about it, but I didn't know it was real. And so that was the first big acquisition. And then, you know, when I moved to Nashville after that acquisition, the opportunity to buy hemp hill, the kind of the largest, you know, the largest and nicest company in the space were worked out, it was sitting there in front of me and it was a kind of unique situation where, you know, direct dialogue with the founders, no sale process, no bankers. Those aren't situations

Starting point is 00:05:12 and opportunities you get all the time. So, you know, I kind of jumped on the opportunities when I saw them and believed in them. And that's not what, you know, what got us here today with that many coaches. The trucks, the trucks was just something that made sense. And that opportunity kind of cave our way as well. And so looking at those and getting to know the two trucking companies, they fit really well into kind of starting a small platform similar to starting with 12, you know, with 12 buses. We start with a small company with small trucks and then we add a bunch of trucks and hire drivers and build the business. But the expertise and the knowledge of the industry was all part of that. So now we have the buses that take the people. We have the trucks that take

Starting point is 00:05:53 the stages. We have the trucks that take the rest of the production equipment, all as part of our service offering. Is there a difference when you're doing this direct negotiation with the person who you're buying the business from? Always, always very, very different. I never want to spend time in auctions. I recently did actually this year. And it turned out, as I expected, you're going to have a bunch of people trying to buy it. And someone wants something bad enough or wants to pay enough money to do it, then they're going to pay a premium. And it's not that I think we necessarily get some screaming deal by working direct, but you work directly with and you solve for what the founders of the company or the, you know, the management team and ownership of the company wants,

Starting point is 00:06:32 what they're looking to do. You spend more time with them and get the real insights from the founder and the entrepreneur versus just some owner who's owned it for a while and looking to trade out and make some money. And the bankers put a lot of fluff and marketing and materials together that make things look different. And they don't know the company like the founders. So that direct a founder from my perspective in Caprice and the Dreamliner opportunities has been a really important part of kind of for me making the right decision buying the right companies. When you go into the acquisition process, are you looking or are you thinking about, okay, I can take this from A to Z. This is the potential it really has. And it's based on these are all the places that they haven't done things.

Starting point is 00:07:18 I'm going to insert technology or this and that. I go in with a lot of thoughts, ideas, but you go in and keep the business exactly as it was when you started. Otherwise, you disrupt what you're paying for and what you're buying. You want to keep the business, the people doing what they're doing. And I think it takes a little bit of time to really digest and figure out how to make the changes and where to make the changes and things that need to be done. When you make changes too fast, I think you make mistakes and you don't maybe fully understand

Starting point is 00:07:46 the people, the processes, and how the company, got where it is. I hear this a lot and a lot of times it's being told by the people to have some sort of benefit because they're selling a course or something or they're in mergers and acquisitions, but they're like, hey, there's all these businesses that are going to be potentially for sale. You have all these people retiring. They haven't inserted technology like AI or whatever in their business, which gives you this big opportunity. But I question, is that really a thing? based on what you're saying, can you really all of a sudden insert technology and now 10x this company? Or are these people just trying to sell me a course?

Starting point is 00:08:22 Listen, I mean, there's no question AI and technology can make significant changes. It can help you grow. It can help cut cost. It can make you more efficient. I mean, there's a lot of things I think it can do. Is it going to 10x someone's business? Is it really going to do X, Y, or Z? I think it totally depends on the business, the industry and kind of what you do. But there's no question it's going to have an impact on most businesses. I would say, I think our business is more protected than most because you've got, you know, you've got a bus, you know, that's got to get places. It's got to be custom built. You know, it's got to go drive overnight. You need drivers that are that are experts, you know, robots can't do this. Electric buses, electric stuff can't do this.

Starting point is 00:09:07 And the custom build shop out there, there's no robots that can custom build what we build, you know, in a 45 foot bus. The guys that do the changes, things, all those things need to be, it's all manual, manual labor needed. So I think we're very protected on that. And they talk about some of the,

Starting point is 00:09:26 you know, the robots and autonomous driving and stuff. That works, you know, I think for roads that are well, you know, well mapped out roads and freeways and stuff. But when you go into that you, if you watch our bus drivers and our truck drivers put a, you know, tractor trailer.

Starting point is 00:09:42 or put a bus in a venue, how they have to maneuver these things backstage and in certain areas, there's no robots doing that. So not that it will never happen, but I think it's a long, long way away for our industry. So you were in finance, lending, funding, and now you're more on the founder side. What are the differences in the two? Pretty dramatically different. Um, the, you know, when I, in finance, kind of growing up and then starting my own fund, you know, you're very focused on underwriting a business, finding out what's good, what's bad, what's

Starting point is 00:10:19 really there, what's not there and trying to analyze and understand the industry and the business. Um, that's all great and dandy until you get in the seat. And then, you know, sitting in my seat today, all that stuff, yeah, that's great. But, you know, you don't really know which person down the hall is doing what and how it got there. You know, people use the phrase garbage in, garbage out, you could have a lot of data and see a lot of things, but who put it in there or why they put it in there is going to drive whether or not that's really good, accurate data or not. So being in the seat, you know, it's, you know, it's been an amazing learning curve for me to be able to kind of start realizing, A, why some of this stuff matters more

Starting point is 00:10:56 than I ever realized. And B, what I told people before, what I thought or what I think they might, what might make sense for them to do, I realize why there was pushback. I realize why it's not as easy. Just go to do some of these things because you can't just make wholesale changes. And it's not that easy to just go hire a CFO. It's not that easy to bring in an executive. There's a lot that goes into all these items that I think, you know, from an investor standpoint or a lender, it's real easy to look at it and say, this is a cool business. I think it's great. I believe in the management team and their metrics look good and the leverage looks good and I'm buying it the right multiple. Those are all great things. But those people don't understand the day to day.

Starting point is 00:11:35 most of them. You know, I know I didn't. I think I had a good sense of what were people failed and missed and what people needed to do. But I don't think that I really understood anything near what I understand today having dealt with 600 employees and, you know, processes and systems and things we're trying to build here. What's the biggest lesson you've learned? Well, I feel like I kind of knew it, but I think you'd lose it in trying to kind of execute. It's all about the people. Almost every founder who sits in this chair tells me the single, thing. The big wins rarely come from perfect timing. They came from a system that kept running while they were busy building. A lot of people now treat Bitcoin the same way. If Bitcoin is a

Starting point is 00:12:17 part of your long-term strategy, consistency matters. Cash app lets you set up automatic Bitcoin purchases with auto-invest so you can build exposure over time instead of trying to time every move. You can also use round-ups or paid-in Bitcoin to make Bitcoin part of your normal money flow. Bitcoin purchases on Cash App have zero fees and zero spread, which matters if you're buying regularly. Download Cash App today. Visit our link in bio. Bitcoin services by Block Inc. See the Bitcoin Disclosures at cash.app slash legal slash podcast. Right. I mean, firstly, you always have client first and you got to have the clients, you got to make your clients happy. But if you don't have the right team of people and the right people around you, you just won't succeed. You can get

Starting point is 00:13:04 lucky for a while here and there, but I think you've got to have the right people that understand your business, what you stand for, who you are, who you want to be. And they're going to live and breathe that and they're going to preach that to clients and to people, to other people. So I think I've had enough experiences with kind of bad people or people that I would say I would not want on my team that I'd say that that's definitely the biggest learning curve is, you know, the right person's more important than the right experience. When you think of the trait, of the best people that you have? What are those traits? Integrity, character,

Starting point is 00:13:41 want to be here for the right reasons, understand, you know, it's a job and a company. They think of, you know, the business and they think of spending money like it's like it's their business and their money. You know, those are things that I think are really, really important because, you know, you have the guys that are just coming here and get a paycheck and that's fine too. But the key people look at it and go, well, if this was my bus that I was leasing out, or if that was my client, you know,

Starting point is 00:14:09 if this was my money and I needed to do X, Y, or Z, would I spend it that way? You know, if they think of things that way, we're going to do a lot better than the most because most people will just be like, well, yeah, my buddy told me we should buy this, so let's go buy this and maybe not even see if there's like four or five alternatives that are a fraction of the price. Anyone could be an entrepreneur, of course. Anyone can start a business. but can anyone become a successful business owner?

Starting point is 00:14:34 Ooh, good question. I mean, I think anyone can do anything to put their mind to. I definitely think certain people are built to be an entrepreneur or to go grow and build something and be more successful than others because I think some people are raised and built to just do the day to day. I mean, I have some people here and I've had the very direct conversations about it. they don't care about the next promotion. They don't care about that.

Starting point is 00:15:03 They want to come in, do their job and go home, right? And there's a place for those people. There's tons of jobs for those people. But those people don't have an itch or, hey, I want to go do this on my own.

Starting point is 00:15:13 I have other guys that have left the company and to go start their own thing or want to go start their own thing. And I want to support and help that. So I think it's something that's inside of somebody that gives them the willingness to take the risk, the motivation to go and, you know, go give something a shot.

Starting point is 00:15:31 And so I think there's definitely something in someone that is unique in becoming a successful entrepreneur. But everyone can come to come one. Successful, though, I think is it takes the grit and the grind. How much your business goes back to when you were standing in these yogurt shops in Chico helping your family out? I mean, every day a portion of it, right? I mean, the client side of it.

Starting point is 00:15:52 I mean, my parents worked, you know, 15 plus hours a day or more, you know, opening the shops, closing the shops, doing everything they had to do to raise me and my brothers and sister. But they cared about the clients more than anything. And they made sure when people came in that they were nice, polite. And when they walked away, they were happy. And it was never about, you know, it was never about, you know, this is how we do it. It has to fit in this box. It was like, I want to make sure these people have what they want and they like it. And if they don't like it, then just get them a new yogurt. Give them an extra scoop, whatever it was. But it was, It was very customer focused.

Starting point is 00:16:29 And so that lives with me very deeply. And day to day around here, it's the same thing. We can be the guy that's like, no, that's my pride, take it or leave it. Or we can be the guy that's like, I understand where you're at. Here's kind of where I need to be and work with them and try to find a solution or, you know, listen to a client that needs something a little different or unique. What do you obsess about that your competitors ignore and gives you the edge? What do I obsess about?

Starting point is 00:16:56 I think our brand, our reputation. I think a lot about our reputation out there with our clients. And when I say clients, I'm not talking about Beyonce. I'm talking about like the crew members, the tour managers, the production managers, the Live Nation reps, you know, the folks that are living on our buses for an entire tour for a year. I want them to know, I want them to be like, Dreamlanders awesome. You know, they took care of this. Like the bus had an issue.

Starting point is 00:17:22 It was a brand new bus, but it had a bus issue. They fixed it. They got us there. They took care of us. The driver was polite and professional. my dreamliner's brand my name my reputation means the world to me and so I want people to know that you know we're doing the right thing we're doing what's best for our clients we're doing what we said we're going to do we're not trying to do anything more than provide a service to our clients and I think that's

Starting point is 00:17:49 that's probably the most important thing to me and I want my you know I want my team to be the same way to represent me and the firm that way. So we don't have, you know, someone out there going, that guy said, I don't want to, I don't want to work with that guy. I don't like Dreamliner because that guy treated me poorly, right? That's, that's the most important thing for my view. I've talked to over a thousand people. I've never talked to anyone in the live entertainment touring space.

Starting point is 00:18:15 I don't even know really much about the business. What would somebody expect from the business side if they were to go and buy a touring company tomorrow. There'll be a lot to learn. You know, listen, on the face of it, it's not complicated. You're right. You've got buses and you build the buses and you lease the buses out for the tours and you hire drivers and they do that.

Starting point is 00:18:37 But the amount of logistics that goes into one tour of, you know, a tour that goes 60 days and does 15, 20,000 miles during that 60 days and has, you know, one or two drivers in the bus at a time to make sure they can go, you know, 400 or 8. 800,000 miles overnight to get to the next show. And the truck drivers behind it, it's not easy. You know, you've got a lot of, you've got a lot of tradesmen across the board. We've got carpenters, plumbers, electricians, you know, housekeeping folks. We got paint and body guys, diesel mechanics.

Starting point is 00:19:13 And then we got hundreds of drivers. So you're managing a lot, a lot of different aspects to be successful. And then if you think about, you know, 200 plus 300, assets on the road all across the country doing different things, you know, as much as our prevos are really nice and built to go a long time, it happens on the road, right? There's always something that happens. And so it's, you know, the real way you prove yourself is what do you do when it happens? You solve, you know, you solve for things and you have to get them fixed. So what I'd say is you definitely want to start small and really learn, you know, learn and hire the right

Starting point is 00:19:47 people along the way. You know, I'm not saying I've grown the right way. We've grown through acquisition. And we've, it's taken a lot of time to get to the right group of people and employees across the board. But, you know, again, I go back to it all about the people. You got the right around right people around you, learn the learn to do it the right way. You could build a nice successful business in the space. What's the wildest request that you've heard an artist make around the tour bus? I mean, we've had magicians on the bus. We've had, you know, huge parrots. We had to put cages in. in there for people to bring their parents.

Starting point is 00:20:22 We've had cages for snakes. Did you say parrots or parents? Parents like big birds. Like think big birds that talk. Huge six foot pythons like snakes. So, you know, various animals and stuff like that. I think I'd probably have to ask my admin out there. She probably knows more of the details and history on some of these things.

Starting point is 00:20:44 But we don't do as much of that these days as was done in the past. In the past, there were some really, really, really, highly customized stuff that people would do here and there. We do what our clients need us to do, but we're not doing a ton of building special bird cages or animal cages in our buses very often. I know you and I talking earlier about bird for me was the worst pet I ever had. Like the it was horrible.

Starting point is 00:21:08 And even I didn't have a snake, but my friend had a snake and the snake bit me. And I'm like, I will never have a snake as a pet. I'll stick to like dog and cat, mostly dogs though. Agreed. Agreed.

Starting point is 00:21:20 So like we have a number of our clients have dogs. And so we'll make one of the bunks like for the dog, put a little cage around it for them. But I'm with you on the birds. We had we had little parakeets growing up as well. And I don't know how many times we had to replace them or my mom replaced them. But like, you know, they don't live forever. And they just sit there and you just got to change the poop.

Starting point is 00:21:40 You've also vice chaired at St. Jude. How much is giving back to you? It's really important. I mean, listen, it's, it's, it's, Part of what I love about what I do is having 600 employees here, right? I get to know most all of them. I can't say I know every driver, but I know everyone that works at any of the offices and facilities. You know, you get to have an impact on people and you get to help, you know, help people that.

Starting point is 00:22:07 I had three interviews stacked back to back, no break, and I skipped lunch because I figured I'd eat after. Halfway through the third one, my stomach growls so loud, the mic picks it up. My lunch that day ended up being a bag of pretzels at four in the afternoon. That is exactly the kind of day I wish I'd had Hewles sitting at my desk. Hewle Black Edition is a complete meal. You have instead of food, not a shake on top of food. The black edition powder has 40 grams of protein and mixes with water or milk in about 30 seconds. 27 essential vitamins and minerals, no artificial sweeteners, colors, or flavors.

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Starting point is 00:23:17 for an hourly wage to support his family. So it matters a lot. The St. Jude's stuff was a lot of fun. I got to be part of kind of building that event, that annual event in L.A. for years with a bunch of other great people. St. Jude's one of those, you know, you always get to hear kind of a direct story from a patient,

Starting point is 00:23:37 which means a lot to me. I love something that you can kind of see, touch, and feel. An impact is something I like more than just giving money somewhere. So I think it's really important. and I think we've got to find more ways to do it. This is an industry that needs it as well. You've got a ton, a ton of blue collar labor all over the place around here. You got a lot of people that don't have a lot of experience doing things that want to get

Starting point is 00:23:59 on a bus and be part of a crew just to get a job and make a living. So I think there's a lot of people in this industry that could use some support. And we just got to find more ways to do it. Entrepreneurship can be a really lonely place. And I love that you're giving back and you're doing these extra things. but from the business side or from the connections of business owners, is there something that you do to meet other people? Yeah, I've joined a few, you know, kind of small networking groups of kind of entrepreneurs,

Starting point is 00:24:28 which is helpful. And, you know, the lonely comment, I always kind of giggle about it. But it's true. I mean, there are, because there are times when, you know, you're sitting there and you have a lot of employees and people that understand the business or certain things, but they're not sitting in your shoes with the weight of a big decision. or how that could impact the business, how it could impact my life,

Starting point is 00:24:52 my income. I mean, I went all in, all in Dreamliner. You know, I put pretty much everything we had in our life and savings into this business. And because I believe in it and I enjoy it. But that weight,

Starting point is 00:25:07 you know, when you're married and you have kids and you're trying to support them, those decisions you make, you know, could have a big impact on, you know, on me personally, the business and then you think about the weight of again all these employees that support themselves

Starting point is 00:25:19 and have livelihoods because of the business and the success of the business if that goes away that's a lot of people that got to go find other jobs so it's it's definitely definitely a different seat and has there's some negatives to it there's there's some tough parts of it um i wouldn't change it for the world but um yeah not everyone understands like the the weight and the amount of things that that i have to think through in my seat versus what on the face it might be that's easy rich just do that. You're like, well, yeah, maybe, you know, but I got to think about that before we just, you know, make that knee-jure decision. I was watching an interview recently with Jensen from NVIDIA, and they asked him, how many pieces of black clothing and leather jackets do you own?

Starting point is 00:26:01 And he said, I own many. It's the only thing that he wears, so he doesn't have to make that decision every day, because he said, this is four to five decisions to figure out what clothes I need to wear. And that really alleviates a lot of the decision-making. I have to do right away first thing in the morning. Is there anything that you do to help less than the amount of decisions that you have to make? I mean, I'd have to give my wife props for this. I mean, she handles and makes decisions with my kids and the home life and a lot of stuff going on at home. So I can focus on things.

Starting point is 00:26:33 And she puts up with me when my brain's running 100 miles an hour on 40 different things at work when I come home and try to be present with her and the kids. But no, other than that, my big thing is to make sure every. day I've got my list of highest priorities and make sure I'm getting the things done that have to get done day to day. So it's some days it's literally just putting out fires. Some days it's forward thinking. Sometimes it's M&A. Sometimes it's just day to day meetings in the office. But I don't have any one thing outside of making sure I know what my highest priorities are day to day that have to get done to either keep the ball moving on a project to start a project or to start a dialogue around something.

Starting point is 00:27:15 I don't have any, fortunately no special sauce there. I think I'm going to get the same clothing every day. I thought that was a good idea. I'm just going to have like 15 different plain one color shirts, like one pair of pants. Although I did just see they auctioned off the leather jacket of him. I think it went for like $100,000. I thought that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:39 When you're thinking about the M&A, because I know you've done a few, you're obviously sounds like you're thinking about more. When is it a right time to go and acquire? When is the right time? I mean, I think that's different for everybody, right? I think you've got to make sure you've got your house in order that you can handle it, firstly, right?

Starting point is 00:27:57 I mean, if you're buying something that's already running and stabilized and has a team and management, that makes it a lot easier. If it's something you've got to fix or integrate right away, you've got to make sure you have the right team set up to do it. You got to make sure you have the right capital. and you're willing to spend that kind of capital, you know, in my situation, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:28:18 I wouldn't, there was a large acquisition that I was in the auction process I mentioned on that we walked away from. I thought that was worth spending the time and effort, but, you know, every acquisition you have to look at, is it worth my time and energy right now to think about doing this? And if I do it, what am I not spending time on that I could be spending time on? That would be valuable for the company today. So I think, I think you really just got to think through your business day to day where you're going for the next couple years and then say, is this worth it right now? If I could get this for X price or if I can get this done, is it worth my time or other places that are better use of my time and or use of resources,

Starting point is 00:28:57 money, money, people at energy. Are you finding that people only want cash for their business? Are they willing to personally finance it? Do you have to get a loan from the bank? Do you have to raise money from investors? Yeah, I think every, every, sellers in a different situation. Most people would love 100% cash, right? But that almost never happens. People typically have to roll over equity and or leave a big seller note in there for some form of financing. That way, buyers can only come up with certain percentage of the total purchase price of cash and then pay the rest over up a note over time or when they sell the company down the road or the company generates enough cash to buy someone out of their equity.

Starting point is 00:29:42 It totally varies. I think the world today seems to be in a place where a lot of people would probably like to sell their company that can't sell it for what they want to get for it or what they think it should be word. It's pretty interesting times with all the other dynamics and geopolitical and other situations out there right now for people to be making decisions like that. But every situation is different. And I think every buyer and seller for that matter have to look at a lot of different personal dynamics and business dynamics to make that decision. Well, you've created the biggest entertainment, transportation company in the industry. Sure. Yeah, sounds great. I mean, in only three years? Well, six now. I bought the first buses in 2020. But yeah, we got to, I mean, when we bought

Starting point is 00:30:28 Hemphill was when really took us from like kind of 60, 65 coaches to 180 something. And then the trucking company definitely in 24 expanded it. But yeah, in three, four years to kind of get their you know, big picture. And then the last couple years has really just been building out, you know, getting kind of the people out that shouldn't be here that don't need to be here and finding the right people and the right team around me. I think everybody wants to be the biggest of their industry. That is, that's the goal of most people, right? I want to be the biggest a blankety blank in my industry. Besides people, what is something that everyone needs to do in order to become the biggest in their industry? To become the biggest in the industry.

Starting point is 00:31:11 Well, firstly, I'd probably correct you with. I don't know that becoming the biggest is always the most important, right? I think about it more about being the best. I want to be the top tier. I want to be the one that everyone wants to be with, whether I'm the number one largest or whether I'm the second, third, fourth largest. The size is great, but I want to make sure we're the best and that we execute and that everyone knows when they come here that they're going to get what they want to get.

Starting point is 00:31:36 and your question was outside of the people sorry say that again for me no i mean i like that i think you answered it instead of focusing on being the biggest focused on being the best and then the best could eventually lead to maybe the biggest largest or maybe the most profitable there you go see now now you're talking my language that matters that matters way more to me i i would if i was not even on the radar with anybody but i could make more money than we're making today. This is the drink Brian Johnson has every morning.

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Starting point is 00:33:31 Because that's why we work. to make money and to make a living, right? So biggest does not always, does not always best, for my view. I was at dinner last night and people around the dinner, I think one of the problem or challenges is that they were so focused on driving revenue, but nobody was really talking about driving profitability. I know a lot of people that from the outside, they're like, I'm doing $20 million a year or $50 million a year in revenue,

Starting point is 00:34:01 but they're struggling behind the scenes because they have no profit. Do you look at things that way? Yeah, I mean, revenue, I mean, bottom line profit, free cash flows the most important part of everything, right? You can't grow, like, it's irrelevant to grow revenue if it's not profitable, right? I mean, if we could book all our businesses and grow revenue, that's great. But if we're not making money, then it doesn't matter. So, yeah, the profitability is you've got to be, you've got to have good margins,

Starting point is 00:34:31 and you got to be able to run a profitable business before you can grow. There's a lot of guys out there that will hustle and can win business and do things one-off here and there. But it's never going to be a stable business because they either overspend or they win business at the cost of margin. And that's not sustainable. What type of margin would you look at if you were going to totally buy a new company in a new industry tomorrow? What kind of margin? you know, I mean, I think you want to be the higher margin business, the better, right? But, you know, I think I feel like in GE, someone told me years and years ago that you want to see,

Starting point is 00:35:12 you'd like to see at least kind of 20% EBITDA margins, you know, and you want to see, you know, at least 50 plus percent gross profit margins. But to me, it's, I think of again, more kind of on a free cash flow basis. like EBITDAO is not as relevant to me. It's free cash for like how much how much money do we make after we pay the bank, you know, the principal back to the bank, the interest of the bank, we pay all the employees, we pay out bonuses and we, you know, buy and build all these coaches like how much money do we have at the end of the day

Starting point is 00:35:42 to continue to de-lever or to put in cash to get ready for the next acquisition or opportunity that might pop up. What's a piece of financial advice that you would give? Because I think most business advice, things, they shy away a lot from the finance side. And I would imagine that's the biggest destroyer of businesses. I think that's right. I think that's 100% right. Most people have an idea, want to go do something and create a product, et cetera, but they don't have the business experience. So, I mean, recognizing you don't have the business experience or you don't have the financial

Starting point is 00:36:21 acumen to figure it out is probably number one. And then it's find someone that can help you, you know, put those numbers together and throw together a model on what something might look like to figure out, you know, how you price it or if it makes sense to do it because, you know, again, I've been in finance and so I'm fortunate to have that background. But even I, you know, I'm not going to win without a good CFO or, you know, a good team of accountants to make sure everything's being done the right way. And when before I make a decision or a larger, you know, cap X decision, like having a discussion around what do we have? What's this going to do to us? And thinking about whether it's bank and covenants or whether it's thinking about like something we're to be spending on next year or a

Starting point is 00:37:04 big event coming up, all those things are really important to, you know, to build a business. And I think most business owners that start them start with an idea and or hustle either it is sales guy, right? Great hustle. I can sell anything. I can go do this or I built a product. I don't know how to sell it, so I've got to find someone to sell it. But again, I think it's a lot easier to grow a business than it is to kind of stabilize a business, build the infrastructure to where it's a really recurring business that's not going away. Rich Thompson, founder and CEO of Dreamliner, I mean, in six years, I'm still amazed, six years, the biggest in your industry, that's incredible. That's a testament to you and what you've been able to do. And like you said, your team,

Starting point is 00:37:52 amazing. I learned a lot today. And thank you so much for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Founder's Story - Tour Bus CEO: "I Bought 12 Buses In COVID. Now Beyoncé's Crew Rides With Us" | Ep. 451 with Rich Thomson Founder of Dreamliner Luxury Coaches

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