Founder's Story - "We Survived Over 100 Years in Business, Here is Our Blueprint" | Ep 270 with with Jonathan Kaufman Iger Founder of Sage

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

In this episode of Founder’s Story, Daniel Robbins sits down with Jonathan Kaufman Iger to uncover how Sage has thrived for more than a century in one of the most competitive real estate markets in the world. Jonathan shares the company’s journey from its founding in 1924 by his great-grandfather to becoming a multigenerational force in NYC real estate, and how Sage is redefining office buildings through innovation, hospitality, and experience. Key Discussion Points:Jonathan explains why 90% of companies fail before 10 years—and how Sage has lasted over 100. He details how the company has pivoted across real estate asset classes to anticipate cultural and economic shifts, from post-WWII workforce growth to today’s hybrid-work era. He also shares how Sage builds loyalty not with flashy amenities but through hospitality-driven experiences, like branded umbrella programs and concierge services, setting a new standard for office life. Takeaways:Listeners will learn why the New York office market isn’t “dead” but transforming, how experience has become the new currency of commercial real estate, and why Sage’s long-term success is rooted in generational vision rather than short-term exits. Jonathan also highlights how blending hospitality into real estate isn’t just survival—it’s the blueprint for the next century of urban life. Closing Thoughts:Sage’s 101-year legacy proves that lasting businesses aren’t built on short-term hype—they’re built on adaptability, vision, and a relentless focus on customer experience. Jonathan Kaufman Iger’s story is both a history lesson and a roadmap for building companies that stand the test of time. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today's episode is sponsored by Pipe Drive, the number one CRM tool for small to medium businesses. I am excited to share more about them later in the episode. Most companies, I think, die. It's like 90% die at the 10-year mark. We're celebrating our centennial, technically 101 years. I think the first part to longevity is leadership and vision. What William was so successful in doing within the field of commercial real estate was really seeing what was going on on a macro level, whether societal, macroeconomic, and really understand how that would have an impact on the real estate business. A company to be around for a hundred years has to mean that they're doing something right. Wayne Gretzky, you know,

saying to, you know, skate to where the puck's going to be and not, not where the puck is. And I think that's a large portion of our success against companies who haven't been around more than 10 years, let alone 100. So, Jonathan, a few things that have really been fascinating about your company and about everything that's been happening when it comes to commercial real estate in New York. because we had maybe a year ago, we had Ryan Sirhan on actually to talk about his experience in New York City real estate from the residential side. So I'm really interested to hear about the commercial side of what's been happening in New York, but also the fact that Sage has been around for over a hundred or has been around for a hundred years. Like a company to be around for a hundred years has to mean that they're doing something right. I don't know what

the stats are now, but it's like most companies, I think, die. It's like 90% die at the 10-year mark. They never, they will never make it that long. So for you, what has kept Sage around this, this for the hundred years? Great question, Daniel. I didn't know that stat. Wow. Well, what percentage normally after 10 years? I think it's like, again, don't quote me, but I believe the last time I heard it was like 90% of companies die before 10 years. Wow. Okay. Yeah, we're celebrating our centennial. Technically, a hundred and one years. A company was founded by my great-grandfather, William Kaufman, in 1924. I think the first part to longevity is, is leadership and vision.

what William was so successful in doing within the field of commercial real estate was really seeing what was going on on a macro level, whether societal, macroeconomic, and really understand how that would have an impact on the real estate business. So whether that's in the 1930s and the Federal Housing Authority, already being created and having FHA, and we were already developing residential, but really leaning into single lot family homes in the tri-state region and taking advantage of FHA loans. Post-World War II, when his two sons joined the business, one of the things he saw was the advent of the GI Bill, and he believed that the GI Bill was going to create the world's most

educated workforce that we've ever seen. And that's exactly what happened. And how as a real estate owner, investor, developer, can he take advantage of that within the field? Those people are going to need a place to work. So it wasn't really until post-World War II, late 1940s, we become more centered around office investment. And by then the early 1950s, ground-up office development in New York City. And so I think our longevity first and foremost against so many other companies is it's not having the initial conviction. The initial conviction can be, hey, I think now is the time to go into real estate or invest

in this asset class, right? But it's understanding that you may be invested in real estate as an asset class, but moving between asset classes within real estate, depending on what's going on, on a macroeconomic, on a societal level. And his two sons were very similar in seeing what was going on. And we expanded internationally at the right time and landed throughout the UK in the 1990s. We sold off certain asset classes like land at the right time. So I think, right, there's kind of that.

Wayne Gretzky, you know, saying to, you know, skate to where the puck's going to be and not, not where the puck is. And I think that's a large portion of, of our success against companies who haven't been around more than 10 years, let alone 100. I've spoken to hundreds of entrepreneurs and one of the biggest pain points they share is generating consistent quality leads. Most founders spend hours chasing down prospects, juggling outreach and still end up with missed opportunities. That's why I recommend today's sponsor, Pip Drive, the number one CRM tool for small to medium businesses. Top sales teams are using Pipe Drive to close an average of three times more leads per month. My favorite part, Pipe Drive takes messy sales process, turns it into a visual pipeline so you can see exactly where every deal stands and what you need to do next.

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different people i find that in asia specifically they build businesses to pass down through many generations they're not necessarily looking at the exit maybe if it's a startup and tech that's different but most businesses there are generational in the u.s. it's almost like the opposite like people are building businesses to exit at some point early on I don't know if their kids ever even think about or they don't think about handing it down through generations to walk me through how that's been and the success of being able because I think this is something that that we could do differently in the US is we could build businesses that will be multi-generational I just don't think it's really been so been something that we've really focused on So how has that been for you and your family? I agree. I think today we're not focused on it. I think, right?

You know, our culture in America is, you know, very much the entrepreneurial startup culture. I think we're inundated on Instagram and TikTok and fast company and ink, right? And the people who are on the cover of those magazines who are posting are very much, about building businesses and being entrepreneurial, but so much of it is about the exit, the IPO, the VC world that's been created. I think if you probably, if we look at America's culture, though, leading up to the last 20 years or so. And maybe there was a focus on just making money finance 80s and 90s kind of culture but i think if you really look back on a on a on a on a country that has been built up by immigrants i think historically that that is the culture

that that we had and i don't know enough if we've entirely lost it but um you know my my family um you know uh came through through ellis island and in the 19 team and built businesses, one of them being William, California organization, Sage. And I think very much it was important to William when his two sons after serving in World War II came back, that very quickly that they entered the business. And it was very important to him, as it's been explained to me, to really run the business is together. But I agree.

I think thinking about it, we've, we've lost something to that extent. I still think it's there very much, but maybe we need a little bit more of it. I automatically think of like Walmart, like the Walton's, you know. Is there a certain level of pressure that you have to go through knowing it's gone to where it is a hundred years. So obviously it needs to continue for another 100 plus years. Does that bring apart a certain pressure to you?

Yeah, I don't know if I've set the goal to make sure that there's a foundation for another 100 years. The pressure has existed. It's probably exacerbated more recently. Obviously with COVID and hybrid work and how that's impacted. commercial real estate, and that's what our focus has been over the last 30-plus years of our

101-year company. When I joined the business in 2010, my grandfather asked me to join. It took me about a month to accept the offer, give or take. And part of that hesitancy was that at that time the company was 85 years old. And I did understand both the honor of being asked to come in, but the pressure associated. Where it really became apparent was when my grandfather got sick. He was still running the company when I came and had the amazing privilege to work and really learned from him for a number of years. It's when he got sick. and I spent a tremendous amount of time in the hospital with him. And we would talk about leases that were executing, right?

That could be 10, 15 years out. And both of us not saying it, but being conscious that he's not going to be here, you know, probably for necessarily the first five years of the lease, let alone the entire tenure of the lease. And I think that's when I really started to understand, although I knew I was making a lifelong commitment. when coming to work for a family company because like we just talked about there there is no ultimate exit for us right the the idea is for other family members and next generation to be involved at some level I think I see it less as obviously it is pressure and pressure can be a good thing but I think viewing it more as a responsibility and and

as an honor, or probably the way that I think about it more than you start to throw in COVID and some other things and the pressure builds a little bit. No, I, that's a fascinating story, the fact that you got to spend time with him and learn from him. I mean, I was just talking to someone today about Berkshire Hathaway, like, you know, he's been doing like 90 something years old, man, the amount of wisdom that we get, which I think is almost sad, right? Like we didn't have a lot of recordings. Like now, obviously, maybe in 50 years, somebody could watch this interview and then they could learn about you.

But like, you know, 50 years ago, there wasn't a lot of recordings, obviously, even 2015, 20 years ago. So there's so much knowledge and wisdom that's been lost that I would like to, I'd like to learn. So let's dig in about the New York, about how the market is on this office commercial side. I think some might some people might say, is it? dead, will it ever return? Do you think they've gotten this completely wrong? Yes. I think that was a, I wouldn't call it a legitimate question back in 2021, 2022. I don't think anyone was sitting there saying no one's going to work in an office building again, right? What this really boils down to at the heart of it is this is economics 101.

This is supply and demand, right? And so if you're talking about a New York office market, depending on how you're defining office as a category, you know, it's a 400 to 500 million square foot market. So I think when people were writing those headlines for articles and on squawk, Fox and everywhere else, no one was actually quantifying saying, hey, I think offices aren't going to exist anymore, right? But from a supply demand, if you have a 500 million square foot market and the demand is for 400 million square feet, right, that will create over time a 20% vacancy and markets have shown that, you know, 20% vacancy will have a significant impact on

rental rates and concession packages, thereby net effective rents and overall values for a property. Historically, the New York City and specifically Manhattan market has averaged a little over 10% vacancy, but that's also including sublet vacancy as well. So I think those were really alarmist headlines. You know, early on the recovery, we saw true flight to quality, brand new ground up development, not simply skating by or doing okay. They were raising their rats, 20, 30, 40%. Right? So that's a very strong market.

And in our business, what we've taken. typically seen is a trickle-down effect, right, where the market starts to rebound with the best product, and then you get to like this Class A product, an A-minus, and B-plus, and that's what we're really seeing. So I think over the next couple of years, as square footage does come off for Resi conversions, we see other alternate uses for some of the older office stock. And what people forget is New York City office stock is, has the oldest average age of any comparable gateway city, right? Compare us to London, even compares to Paris, particularly compares to any gateway Asian city, Tokyo, Shanghai. A lot of this product needs to be recycled.

And that's what we're seeing. And as that has been occurring and will continue to occur, we're seeing at specific asset classes within commercial real estate, not just stabilization, but actually an increase in both gross and net effective rents. Well, that's exciting. I mean, like you're saying, New York is like near any, anyone in the world knows New York. Like if you go anywhere that I've been, I've been every continent and I mentioned New York City everybody knows New York City, which I think is always good thing.

And every time I go, it seems very busy. So people are still moving there. They're going there. I'm curious about amenities. I think we don't always think of commercial space as having amenities. But I believe that you said or you've talked around hospitality, which is the real secret to winning in the future of office space. yeah it's um look a hospitality centric approach is is part of sage's DNA my my great uncle who was past president of sage in the late 1960s traveled uh through europe i think it was the first time

he had been back since since being over there for world war two and when he came back um he introduced at the heart of what he had experienced, which was now known as the European-style concierge system within our commercial properties. Now more than ever, and I think too often, people are focused on the amenities, the physical amenities in what's being provided, right? We've had this amenities arms race,

which we're starting to see peter out. It doesn't mean amenities aren't petering out, but this crazy amenities arms race of lessons all golf simulators and race car simulators and nap pod rooms and cold plunge tanks um like to me that's most of that's crazy um and even for those who take it a step further in a good way right and they think about hey let's let's make sure we know how to greet our our tenants when they come into the building um to us that's still not taking it as far as it needs to be. And so for us, rather than talk about amenities and even services to a certain, what we focus

on is experience, right? And across our property, it becomes known as the sage experience. What is it, what does it feel like to be in a sage property, right? What's the overall experience to be in a sage, in a sage property? And amenities play a key part of that. that. But I've been saying, we've been building out amenitized spaces in commercial office building since 2013. We were one of the first companies to really do it in New York City. We're definitely one of the first to do it with, you know, private outdoor space for the entire tenancy. And even early on then, I remember, you know, effectively quoting Field of Dreams, you know, and telling people that it's not field of dreams.

This is not if you build it, they will come. You need to build it and you need to program it. And that's really at the heart of what we do. I think that's at the heart of differentiating your product. And I think that is very much the future of commercial real estate. You can only have so much square footage of brand new development. And what happens to brand new development over time after 10, 15, 20 years? And again, we've been around for a hundred,

a lot of the buildings we've owned, we developed, we've owned them for 60 plus years. I would very much like and expect for us to own and manage them for another 60 years. So we think longer term, you know, further out. And in order to be successful there, you have to provide a cohesive experience for your customer. And that's really what we focus on. I can appreciate that. I'm also in the hospitality space, not in anything commercial, but more residential side. And I find I like to visit other places. For example, like the Amman properties is, you know, Amangirian, Utah.

It's like one of the best experiences I've ever had. And I like to learn and then take that back to the place that we have. But I'm always really big on that piece. It's not like you're saying, For me, it's always not the amenities per se. Like, I've been to a million spas and such. It's how warm do they make me feel, the personal level experience? It's like the smallest of details that I remember. I don't really remember a lot of things. I don't even know if I remember the food.

But when I went to Amangiri, I remember the chef was like, look, forget the menu. I'll make you anything you want. And that really stood out to me. I don't even remember if the food was good. I just remember that. But when you travel around, I imagine you must do the same thing. do you as you travel and and you have these experiences are you taking pieces like your great uncle or or actually seeing things kind of from the outside like oh i don't like this or i like this

yeah much to the chagrin of my now wife um who years past now i have kids that looks a little bit different the camera roll is all all of them um but before that when we would travel just the two of us and you'd look at our photo roll, it could be a close-up shot of some corner retail window, not even the actual retail itself, but like the window. And that was interesting in how they did that. Constantly writing down notes, used to carry around a little notepad and you walk into my room late at night or in the hotel room. It's crumpled up. I've now transferred to the computer. I've slacked it to say, hey, let's let, let, let, let, let, let, let, let's explore this idea, I think for everybody, whether you're in a CEO position or just

starting out and like having the world inform you and being able to translate experiences, services, offerings in other industries and bring it to your own. And I think probably that's unbelievably important within any hospitality-driven field in which offices is now one of those. I was down in Austin, Texas years ago. And crazy storms. And I remember leaving the lobby of the hotel we were staying at. It wasn't a five-star hotel. And they had put out a number of umbrellas that you could grab, right, to use, gratis, free. The thought was great. The execution was terrible because within 20 feet of leaving the hotel the winds were so strong it was those flimsy five dollar pretty crappy umbrellas the thing literally ripped off right my wife and i got

completely soaked ran back to 20 feet it was literally like a monsoon um but i was like i love this idea it just needs to be executed on better and within a couple months and we still have the program running today that any time it looks like it's going to a rain or that it has started to rain. We have SAGE branded umbrellas that are super strength, like, you know, you could use this in a hurricane type umbrella, that tenants can, and our SAGE members can grab as they come in and out of the building that day. I think overall, whether it's reading through a magazine, a book, a conversation, what we strive to do, and you said it so well, Daniel, there's a popular quote.

I think it's typically attributed to Danny Meyer, but it was actually said by his partner at the original Union Square Cafe, I'm sorry, Gramercy Tavern, Tom Colicchio, and he's famous for saying people come to the restaurant for the food, they come back for the experience, particularly in New York, but in any city, you have the option to eat at 400, 500 great restaurants. You're typically not going back because you fell in love with that chicken dish. And you're not going back necessarily because the service was amazing. You're going back because you like the way the experience of eating, socializing, being in that restaurant made you feel.

And the way a good operator achieves that is you are constantly looking at every single touch point from the moment that customer walks in and for really good operators before they walk in, like the Amman, all the way through that experience. And you think about every touch point, what is it like to open up the door to enter the restaurant? What is it like to walk from the door to the matri-D station, right? If they're going to ask to take your coats or an umbrella, what is that experience like? Where is the placement of the bar? And if you have to wait to be seated, you need to get through a pack of 30 people to wait at the bar until they come get you for the table.

like most people don't think about all of these tiny little elements and each one is equally important because none of them make us want to come back, you know, to the restaurant, but one of those can make us not want to go back, right? You got to be batting a thousand when you have competition. And so that's got to be the approach. And so much that is being informed of your experience day to day outside of an office building so that you can elevate that experience inside an office building at every customer touch point. That reminds me, I went to per se, and Thomas Keller came around the corner. And I've done events that has restaurant in San Francisco. So I went up to, um, I went up to the waitress and I said,

hey, I really would like to meet him. He was going really quickly, I think, because he didn't want people to stop him. I was like, I really want to meet him because we've done events at his restaurant in San Francisco. So she said, she came back in like five minutes. He said, okay, come back into the kitchen. So my wife went back in the kitchen and we got to spend time with him. We actually created a whole menu at this business that we had because of, of him. He let me explained it to him he let us take pictures like he actually spent a good like 10 15 minutes with us which i was shocked right because i know he's just super busy he was only there for this event that they were having sure and that really still like you're saying that really stood out to me i was like

wow you know what you are totally right on that it's really these moments but i don't think a lot of people get it i think it's hard for people to understand or maybe it's also hard to execute but But I love what you said around the umbrellas. It's not just having the umbrella. It's having an umbrella, though, that it's not going to actually give you a bad experience. But my final question is this. And I'm having a great time, by the way. I love the story.

Yeah, me too. Thank you. If you can redesign the entire New York City skyline for the next 50 years, what would you do differently? I'm hoping I can be like my great grandfather. my grandfather and his brother and maybe just develop one or two buildings but if i could reimagine manhattan skyline um and this is completely apolitical um are our zoning requirements which typically come from a good place right um do not meet the needs of the future for our city.

One of the great keys to unlocking what I think can make New York and so many other cities, even more vibrant, even more livable, is not just allowing, but also, you know, I'm not saying let's get subsidies, but supporting true mixed use properties. Right. Ideally, in so many ways, you should be mixing an office building and a residential building. It's actually good for the environment. Think about in a residential building where the peak water usage is, right? It's before you go to work, right? It's after you come home from work. In an office building, think about when peak office water usage is, right?

It's nine to five. And you can design unbelievably more efficient properties, right? Because of the way that we work in an office building, the way we live in a residential building, you layer in

hotels into that. Not every building can be residential hotel office, right? But you start to allow for a much greater mix. You're going to see much more interesting buildings. You're going to see buildings that are much more efficient across the board. You're going to find buildings that are much more enjoyable to be a part of. You're going to find actually the business models work much better, right?

If I combine a residential building in New York City and an office building today, and you're sharing those amenities, that is much more economical, both for the office user, the resident, and the property owner, that it being split apart. And I'm not saying that you should live in the building you work in, right? but having the true mixed use development in New York City would transform the skyline. It would transform the city. I'd love to see it. I've explored the idea with architects just conceptually before. I think it's be a long or a long ways away, but we'll get there eventually. No, that's fascinating.

I didn't even think about what even is the business model of a office building besides just rent. but you have it sounds like you can do other things have a lot of things potentially if this is something that is allowed or allowed at the ability that you would need it to be but if people want to get in touch with you they want to find out more information about sage obviously want to follow along a hundred and one year i mean that it's it's insane when i saw this i'm like wait a minute is this is this correct or is this like a typo but over a hundred and one years that's crazy but how can they do so yeah our website sagereelty dot com We're also on Instagram, Sage Experience, and LinkedIn, which is Sage Realty as well.

Probably one of the oldest companies on Instagram, I imagine. One of the oldest companies on social media, at least in the U.S., I would think. Probably one of them. Yeah, not the longest that we've been on Instagram, but definitely one of the oldest companies on Instagram. I think that's fascinating. That is amazing. You know, you're there to, to continue the legacy. And I imagine the great thing about having, you know, generations and generations is they keep,

they keep the business up to, up to the technology, like social media, like all these things that maybe other generations wouldn't even think about. But Jonathan, this has been amazing. Congratulations, you know, on hitting over 100 years. I can't wait. You know, if you and I chat again in 50 years, if I'm still alive, I'll be really fascinating. But at least we can reference this interview 50 years prior. But this has been great.

And thanks for joining us on Founder's Story. Thanks, Daniel, for having me and allowing us to share our Centennial with you and your listeners and viewers.