Founders - #336 How To Lose A Few Billion Dollars: Samuel Insull

Starting point is 00:00:00 Do you remember Sam Insull, the billionaire utility tycoon from Chicago? Do you remember how his empire collapsed and how he lost $2 or $3 billion? How the newspapers at the time called it the biggest business failure in the history of the world? You may remember the battle that the United States government had to extradite Insull from Greece. But chances are you don't remember that Insull had been in the electric business as long as there had been an electric business. That he had started as Thomas Edison's private secretary in 1881. That he, more than any other man, was responsible for founding the business of centralized electric supply. That he organized the Edison General Electric Company, now known as GE. And that he worked out a model of nationwide product distribution that virtually all other American industry copied.

Starting point is 00:00:53 That he practiced and popularized mass production and selling at the lowest possible cost long before these ideas were attributed to Henry Ford. That he was the first to successfully apply on a large scale the concepts of the load and diversity factors on which all utility rates are based today. That he brought into effect the natural monopoly principle of utility companies. That he helped create the open-end mortgage that's used in financing expansion of many businesses outside of the electric industry today. That he was the father of effective government regulation of public utilities and the creator of rural electrification. That he pioneered successful welfare programs years before most of business, labor, or government took any significant steps in that direction.

Starting point is 00:01:38 That he helped develop the idea and techniques of modern public relations. And he was the crucial link between P.T. Barnum and Madison Avenue, and that he devised methods of marketing securities that made possible gigantic modern corporations. Next to Thomas Edison, Sam Insull is the name that you should remember as the most important and perhaps the most notorious person in the electricity business. That was an excerpt from the book I'm going to talk to you about today, which is Insul, The Rise and Fall of a Billionaire Utility Tycoon, and it was written by Forrest McDonald. This is a very old book. It was first published in 1962. And what the book lays out is

Starting point is 00:02:18 that Insul was not just a company builder, but he was actually an industry builder. So you can think of what Rockefeller was to oil, what Henry Ford was to the automobile, what J.P. Morgan was to finance, and what Carnegie was to steel. Sam Insull was to electricity. But unlike Rockefeller, Ford, Morgan, and Carnegie, Insull made terrible, drastic mistakes at the end of his career, and he dies broke. And so for you and I, this is going to be one of the scariest books that we could talk about because the idea that you can be wildly successful, maybe the most successful businessman in the 1920s, have an amazing 53-year career and still be over leveraged and risk everything and die with no money is absolutely terrifying. So I'm going to start with the relationship that he had with

Starting point is 00:03:05 his father. Insel is born and raised in England. And what is most interesting is that he had all of his dad's positive traits and none of the negative ones. So his dad was described as imaginative, clever, and enthusiastic. What his dad did not have was energy, practical sense, and fortitude. Sam's father was idealistic, impractical, and intellectual. That is not how you would describe Sam. Sam was very smart, but he was pragmatic, very much like Thomas Edison. And another way Sam differs from his dad is there's a line in the book where it says his dad was not interested in earning a living. Sam was the exact opposite. He loved operating companies. He was a workaholic. It

Starting point is 00:03:45 says when he was, his standard workday was 16 hours a day from the very beginning of his career and all the way up until when he was in the 70s, he was still working 16 hours a day. He loved operating companies and he was, as we'll see, he's very, very gifted at operating companies. And after finishing the book and then rereading all my highlights before I sat down to talk to you, I think maybe his most important trait is that he had, the author says that he had near demonic energy. I'm going to read this paragraph to you. This is incredible. And this starts out when he was really young and he had incredible energy and work ethic up until the very end. He was small, but his physical endurance was boundless and his energy was inexhaustible. He had a peculiar metabolic makeup. He awoke early, abruptly, completely bursting with energy. Think about that. He opens his eyes and jumps out of bed

Starting point is 00:04:33 with a burning desire to achieve mission success is the way I would put that. So he'd be bursting with energy, yet he gained momentum as the day wore on and he would work long into the night. Later on, much later on, as a matter of fact, as an adult, he learned to relax, but relaxation was a learned thing to be resorted to only when he was on the verge of physical collapse. This sounds like Thomas Edison too. Relaxation was an act of will. His body always told him to go and go and go because he came from the lower middle class. And sometimes he was very close to poverty from his dad's what I would call laziness. He had to he started working really early, starts having to support the family.

Starting point is 00:05:15 I think he's he's working more than full time when he's 14. And so there's a description of him early on. But this is something again, characteristics that he maintains throughout his entire life. The way I would think about when you analyze and read about Sam is he had a very gifted and deductive mind. So it says, Sam's most obvious attributes was a capacity for racing through large quantities of reading material, effortlessly perceiving its important assumptions and generalizations, and thoroughly assimilating its salient details. The way his mind worked, it said he reasoned from particulars to generalizations about all the information that he was able to consume. He learned to see to the heart of relations between things

Starting point is 00:05:55 and to grasp the underlying principles so clearly that he could perceive ways to shift them around and make them work even better. As we'll see when he goes to America to become the private secretary of Thomas Edison, I think he's 21 at the time. Essentially, his job was, hey, we have this gifted inventor, now systematize all the businesses around him. And so that's exactly what Insull did. And he's going to wind up working in that industry for the next 53 years. But when he's a young boy, he's reading, they would call them self-help books. In fact, one of these authors, this guy named Samuel Smiles that Insull was reading about actually wrote a series of inspirational books that we'd call self-help today. In fact, one of them,

Starting point is 00:06:36 so it's like a combination of self-help and biographies. So he's reading biographies of lives of great engineers. But one of the actual titles that he read and had made a huge affection on his life was a book called Self-Help. And these books in their day sold a ton of copies. So it was like they inspired thousands of young English men with this idea that if you exercise lifelong learning and self-discipline and honesty and thrift and prudence, then fortune would follow. And so he would take some of these lines. He would have these maxims that he'd repeat and he would take some of these lines, he would have these maxims that he'd repeat, and he would repeat them throughout his life ever since he was a young man. So I just want to list a couple of the ones that stood out to me. So the first one is idle

Starting point is 00:07:14 hands are the devil's workshop. Number two, time is money. Number three, things are simply done or not done. Number four, one reveres one's family. Number five, only that which is useful is good. That reminds me of one of my favorite Thomas Edison quotes. He says that sale is proof of utility. Edison was famous for only wanting to invent things that had actually a commercial application. And his whole point is like, you know, it's useful because people will buy it. Sale is proof of utility. So again, only that which is useful is good. And six, survival of the fittest. And so Sam's first job, he's 14 years old. He gets a job at this firm of auctioneers, and he's just an office boy, basically having to do whatever it is they need done. Just like Carnegie before him and Rockefeller, we see this over and over again.

Starting point is 00:07:59 He'll just start acquiring all these skills that make him more valuable to the company, even at a young age. So Rockefeller would learn bookkeeping. Carnegie would learn how to be a telegraph operator. Insull's version of that, he becomes a stenographer. And just like Carnegie, who would stay up late into the night learning how to be a telegraph operator, Insull was doing the exact same thing. It says he worked at a long into the night every night until he had become an expert stenographer. The other night, I was having dinner with two founder friends friends and we ended up having this very interesting discussion on Sam Zell. And I actually went, it inspired me the next morning to go and reread all my highlights from Sam Zell's autobiography.

Starting point is 00:08:34 And there was a description of something Sam was doing early in his career. It might have been one of his first projects where he was building on that student housing in Michigan, if I'm not mistaken. And there was a note I left myself that I had forgotten. And it says, do the best you can with the opportunity in front of you. Opportunity handled well leads to more opportunity. Opportunity handled well leads to more opportunity. So he becomes a stenographer, realizes, hey, this is a very valuable skill set. These older, more successful

Starting point is 00:08:59 businessmen are in need of it. So I will not just learn it, but I will spend nights and weekends becoming the very best stenographer I can be. He's like 15 when he's doing this, right? And as a result, his boss at this auctioneer company actually knows the editor of the founder and editor of the magazine Vanity Fair. And he needs help. His name is Thomas G. Bowles. So he actually needed a person to come at night and be his stenographer. And so because Sam did the best he possibly could with the opportunity that was in front of him, and opportunity handled well leads to more opportunity, he winds up being a very close and important nighttime employee for this well-connected and powerful founder and editor of Vanity Fair.

Starting point is 00:09:46 And so if you think about this, Sam Insull at this point is a PSD, which you and I've talked about over and over again, poor, smart, determined. He doesn't, he's not connected to, he doesn't know high finance, high business. He doesn't know the most powerful people in the country, but Thomas Bowles does. And now he is at the right hand of Thomas Bowles. So it says Bowles was intimate with many important politicians and able to gain entrance almost anywhere through his personal and family connections. Insull would go to Bowles' home four nights a week to take dictation from eight until midnight. He would see something that Insull was famous for. Remember, they said he had demonic energy. He said sleep was unimportant. So he would arise at four the following morning.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Right. So keep in mind, he's working all day. He's got a full time job at the auctioneer. All right. Then he goes and he works for bowls from eight until midnight. Then he sleeps for four hours, wakes up at four in the morning, transcribes all the notes that he took for bowls and then delivers that to the printers on his way to his day job. Now, this is very important because you and I talk about this relationships run the world. And so the way that Sam Insull is going to build a relationship and really probably the only path to build a relationship with extremely influential and powerful people that can help you, right,

Starting point is 00:10:59 is service first. He's not like, hey, gimme, gimme, let me go pick your brain. No, it's like, I'm going to work excessively hard for you. I'm going to provide a valuable service for you first. And as a result, Thomas Bowles teaches him about the highest end of business and politics and finance. And more important, maybe more importantly, or just as importantly, maybe it's the way you think about this. Sam starts to become very comfortable around in the presence of very powerful people.

Starting point is 00:11:25 And so now Sam starts to see, oh, this is a path to advancement. What does he do? He doesn't like, okay, well, I'm just going to keep, you know, being an office boy and keeping a sonographer. He's like, no, I need to acquire more skills. So then he starts to teach himself bookkeeping. He winds up buying a bunch of like, essentially almost like a course is where you could think about this that would teach him bookkeeping and accounting. And then he starts keeping an imaginary set of double entry books to practice. Then he's reading every spare minute of the day. And it's not like this guy has a lot of spare minutes, right? He devoured classic works in political economy, history, literature, and biography. He had the ability to commit to memory everything he read. He also had the ability

Starting point is 00:12:01 to focus, which is again, I think is becoming even more and more rare in the world, the modern world that you and I live in today. It says he developed the ability to concentrate on a single subject and to completely shut out everything else, no matter how pressing. He learned to systematize and render efficient whatever he dealt with. And so that is a hint to what is probably his greatest skill in operating businesses. People would bring him in from other companies and he's just like, he could come into your company and just build systems to make every single company he was involved in, he found ways to systematize it and to make it more efficient. Without that skill, you and I would not be

Starting point is 00:12:36 talking about him today. This book would not have been written on because essentially what like his main achievement is that he developed, right, the business model for the modern electric industry. And he winds up, he does this by turning a luxury product into a necessity. His like flagship accomplishment in life, him more than any other person in history, made electricity universally cheap and abundant. What blows your mind is when you go and read these books, especially in like this robber baron era. They essentially had a very similar idea, even if they didn't put it into words. It's like, how do we turn a luxury product into a necessity? Okay, so I want to fast forward a few years. Insull is 19, and he still has this habit

Starting point is 00:13:14 of reading and using the best, like absorbing as much useful information as possible. He winds up coming across this article that talks about a 31-year-old American inventor named Thomas Edison. And Sam Insull is blown away. And after putting that article down, he goes and finds every single possible thing he can find on Thomas Edison, and he reads it all. In doing so, Edison becomes Insull's hero. And a 19-year-old Sam Insull does not know. He's about to get fired for no fault of his own. He doesn't know this is going to be probably the best thing that ever happened to him. So his boss that he's been working there for what, four and a half years, gives Insull a review. He's like, you're incredible,

Starting point is 00:13:55 you're diligent, and unfortunately, we have to fire you. And he's like, well, what's going on? Their most important customer that was spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and that's in the 1870s, 1880s, wants his son to enter the business. So he's got essentially Insul gets fired because the company he's working for, the most important customer, the son needs a job. And that job that he gets was formerly done by Sam Insul. And as you can imagine, he's crushed. He's humiliated. He's somewhat depressed. But he doesn't stay depressed for long.

Starting point is 00:14:26 He's like, OK, I got to find another job. I got to support myself. And he winds up getting a job. His new employer is this guy called Colonel George. Why did I say this is probably the most important thing that ever happens to him? Because Colonel George, it was the European representative of Thomas Edison. This is one of Thomas Edison's companies. This has nothing to do

Starting point is 00:14:45 with electricity yet. This is when he was making innovations in the early telephone industry. So Colonel George hires a young Sam Insull. He's like, wait a minute, this guy can do everything. Not only can he be my stenographer, he could be my bookkeeper. And so what he does is he allows Sam Insull to read every single thing inside the company about all these contracts and all the businesses that are doing for Edison. This is Rockefeller did the same thing. If you remember on the multiple Rockefeller episodes I've done, he becomes like the bookkeeper at this like produce commission house. And it's called Hewitt and Tuttle. And what he does is he's like, hey, I'm just going to read through the history, the complete history of the company.

Starting point is 00:15:23 She goes back and reads all the books and everything about that. They say by the time Rockefeller was done, he knew more about the company than the founders did. You're seeing something very similar in Sam Insull's life. And so here's a description of that. He says he went through systematically every scrap of paper concerning Edison that he could find in the office, and he committed most of it to memory. When Edison's chief engineer, his name's Edward Johnson, when Edison's chief engineer came from America to London to supervise the installation of the first European telephone exchange, he found that Sam Insull, who again is 19 at the time, he found that Sam Insull knew more about Edison's business affairs in Europe than Colonel George

Starting point is 00:15:59 did. And so if you think about what's happening is this is really incredible. Step one, learn everything about Edison. Step two, build a relationship by serving Edison's chief engineer. So by this point, Edison's already Insul's hero, right? So he's like, okay, I'm going to tie my fate. He thinks Edison is so special. He's like, we need to tie our fates together. How am I going to get a job? How can I work? How can I meet Thomas Edison? And so this is what he says. He's like, well, to do, I must do two things. I have to learn everything I could about the technical aspects of Edison's businesses. And I need to build a relationship with Johnson. And so how does he do that? Same way. He's does acts of service. He doesn't ask for something. He's like, these people are really important. How can I what can I do to help them? So he spends every single minute with Johnson's engineers as they're building this European telephone exchange in London, right? And he's like, he asked them a bunch of questions, but he'll do anything. He's like, hey, can I carry your pliers? Can I help you string wires? Every single aspect of the business, and this is something that Sam does for his entire life. He probably knew more. I mean, he's the one that vertically integrated the electricity industry,

Starting point is 00:17:00 so he definitely did. He knew every single aspect of the business. That's just his modus operandi and whatever he's, whatever he does. And you see it in 19 in this telephone business. And so after a few months of this, Johnson becomes familiar with him, right? He's like, okay, I know who this guy is. He's obviously smart. I'll spend some time with him. But he was also complaining. This is funny. Edward Johnson, remember Edison's chief engineer, complained loudly about the laziness of Englishmen who refused to work on weekends. And so Sam hears him say this. He's like, hey, he volunteers. He's like, I will come to your home on the weekend and I will work without pay. And so, of course, Johnson accepts. He's like, OK, cool. And soon Sam Insull is doing all of the secretarial work

Starting point is 00:17:42 for Edison's chief engineer. And Johnson realizes, hey, this kid is gifted. I need to find a job for him. He says, Johnson was soon convinced, conceived of the ideal function for Sam Insull. Edison was always doggedly systematic and practical regarding his inventions, but he conducted his personal and business affairs in a slip-shod manner. Johnson believed that Sam Insull was just the sort of fellow Edison ought to have around him as a private secretary and general business partner. And so by this point, we're, you know, 19, what are we, 19, 20 years into Sam Insull's life. It's very obvious. The book has just started and there's a great line that Lyndon Johnson has said over and over again that are in the 1920 years into Sam Insell's life. It's very obvious. The book has just started.

Starting point is 00:18:27 And there's a great line that Lyndon Johnson has said over and over again that are in the biographies of Robert Caro. I also talked about on episode 305 that he did on Robert Caro and LBJ. It's do everything and you will win. That's one of my favorite maxims I've ever heard. Do everything and you will win. If you heard my episode on the mind of Napoleon,

Starting point is 00:18:42 that book is so hard to find. It's episode 302. It is obvious when you study Napoleon, when you study the LBJ, when you study a lot of the people you and I talk about, if they didn't say it out of their mouth, their actions are showing that do everything and you will win. Most people will do, will not do everything. And so we see he wants to go to America. He wants to work for Thomas Edison.

Starting point is 00:19:05 There's no opening yet. Johnson's trying to figure out how can I get him in. And during this window of uncertainty, this time period, right? It's not like Sam Insull. I think you already know by now, this guy's not going to sit down and do anything. He wakes up with demonic energy. So this is what he did. During this wait, he was neither idle nor waiting.

Starting point is 00:19:23 He reread every one of Edison's European contracts and then took it upon himself to write weekly letters to Johnson summarizing the fluctuations in the telephone situation and outlining Edison's shifting interest in connection with it. These letters proved to be the best selling points Johnson could have in recommending Insull. And when Edison's private secretary suddenly resigned, Insul was on his way to New York. Now, this is incredible. Everybody around Insul's like,

Starting point is 00:19:52 you are insane. Because he's like, all right, I'm out of here, guys. I'm jumping on a boat, and I'm going to America. And they're like, what's your job? He's like, I don't know. There's no job description. What are you getting paid? I don't know. I didn't ask. And so you have all of his family and friends like, you're nuts. You can't go. You don't even know what your job is. You don't know what you're going to get paid. And you're going to get on a boat and go and cross the Atlantic. And this description of Sam Insull is one of my favorite ones in the entire book. Doubting yourself is very, very dangerous. Something that's come up a bunch. To have been swayed by such objections would have been completely out of character for him. One of his most deep-rooted

Starting point is 00:20:26 traits was that he was absolutely unable to imagine the possibility of his own failure. He entirely lacked the sense of caution of those who doubt themselves. Caution, like relaxation, was unnatural to him. Ensel gets on the boat, right? He gets on the boat. He lands. He gets in New York, you know, just after a few week journey. He gets in New York. It's nighttime. The sun had just set. Johnson meets him there. He's like, hey, we have no time to wait. Like we're pushing, right? We're pushing the pace here. He takes him straight to where Thomas Edison's at because at this point in Edison's career, he had just completed his successful experiments on electric lighting. And so this is when he temporarily closes Menlo Park, moves to Manhattan.

Starting point is 00:21:08 He's getting financing from JP Morgan. And he's trying to build out. This is direct current, right? So this is the very early days. I mean, it is the earliest days of the electrical lighting industry. And again, going back to this idea that there's something that happens over and over again. Can you turn a luxury product into a necessity? And you do that by making it universally cheap

Starting point is 00:21:27 and affordable for everybody else. They knew what they were trying to do because Insull, Johnson, and Edison said things like this. We will make electric lights so cheap that only the rich will be able to burn candles. So Johnson brings Insull to Edison and they look at each other and like, oh my God, this guy is so young.

Starting point is 00:21:45 And at the time this is, Insel was 21, right? But he looked a little younger and Edison is just 34 years old. This is, you know, I'm obsessed with this because I talk about this all the time. Cause if you Google,

Starting point is 00:21:55 Google image search, Thomas Edison, you're going to see the old, like the, the white haired Edison, you know? And this idea, it's like,

Starting point is 00:22:03 oh, we get insight. And there's a bunch of like super old books mentioned in this book. And one of them is like, it talks about like the very early days, like when Edison was in his 20s. And it was written by a guy that was like one of his helpers. So I just ordered it. It should be here in like two or three weeks. It's like very hard to find. But I'm obsessed with this idea. It's like, okay, yeah, Edison at the very end of his career. That's fascinating. He's the,. He's the elder statesman. He's going on these road trips with Henry Ford. He's probably the one, you know,

Starting point is 00:22:30 he is one of the most famous people on the planet. This is Edison before that. This is 34-year-old Edison still trying to figure things out. Now, that did not mean that he was already pretty famous. And he had a bunch of inventions under his belt. And so there's this great paragraph I want to read to you from the book, because it really like allays some of the fear that Insull's family and friends had. Like, you're crazy. Don't go on the boat. Like, why are you doing this? You don't know what the job is. You don't know what you're getting paid. He's like, yeah, but I get to work with Thomas Edison. And so here was Edison's resume at 34. Here was the man who had invented the stop ticker, the multiplex telegraph, the mimeograph

Starting point is 00:23:07 machine, the phonograph, and the transmitter that made the telephone practical. The man who said he had invented and was about to give the world electric lighting, electric power, and electric transportation. The man who would invent in the next decade the motion picture and discover the principles that made possible radio and television. And so, of course, if you're a young 21-year-old, or really any age, and you have the ability to sit, to literally be the private secretary, to go everywhere, to be his linchpin to the world, you, of course, you do it. This was a genius idea

Starting point is 00:23:42 and risk that turned out to not be that very risky that a young Sam Insull did. So the first thing Edison's doing is like, hey, I'm having he's like fighting with J.P. Morgan and a bunch of his financiers. They won't give him the money he wants to extend his electric convention. So he's like, I don't you know, I don't care. I'm going to I have to figure out how to do this myself. Take a look at all my resources, young Sam Insull, because remember, he had been writing, essentially what he's going to do, he's going to sell off a bunch of his patents and licenses for his telephone business. And he's like, can you go through this and tell me what I should do? Now, how would Thomas Edison and Johnson know that he should do that? Well, remember that Insull was writing these weekly letters. I'm reading every single thing. I'm

Starting point is 00:24:20 reading all the contracts, all your licenses. I know the lay of the land over here. This is what you should do. So the first job he does, he says, hey, listen, Edison tells me, he goes, I got $78,000. I need to finance my new undertakings and I'm ready to sell everything that I own. And the most valuable thing that Edison owned at this point that he believed was his European telephone securities. So the first job is Insul has to go through all of this paperwork again and say, okay, where's the best place that we can sell the dozens of, and they have all these different securities, different kinds of securities. We have dozens of these. Where do we go? How do we do this? And how much do you think

Starting point is 00:24:55 we could make from them? Remember, this job is starting the first night that he gets there. Let's say the sun sets. This is in February. So what time would the sun set? Maybe five in the afternoon, something like that. He works all the way through the night. This is in February. So what time would the sun set? Maybe five in the afternoon, something like that. He works all the way through the night. By four in the morning, he had gone through every single one of these transactions and had a plan on how to distribute them and sell them for the highest possible price. Edison's like, OK, this is the guy. So he goes, hey, what do you want to make?

Starting point is 00:25:21 And Insull's like, I don't care. Just pay me whatever. And again, think about that. It's like, pay me whatever. I'm going to prove my worth to you. And then it's not like Edison had, Edison's not organized. So if someone asked, if someone was to go back in time and ask Sam, hey, what were you doing for Edison? Whatever was necessary is the answer. Whatever is necessary. And so there's just one paragraph I want to read to you that describes this. He systematized Edison's office without attempting to systematize Edison's own

Starting point is 00:25:51 activities. Edison's whole method of work, Insole later recalled, would upset the system of any business office. He cared not for the hours of the day or the days of the week. And so we would talk about, it's not like he had a set schedule, right? He would work on whatever he thought was most important or most interesting at that time. And so sometimes it's, he would talk to all the people on the staff for two or three hours about an invention or a thought that he had the night before.

Starting point is 00:26:20 Or he'd spend two or three days in a row trying to say, hey, I just got, I just created something. Now I'm going to spend two or three days just running experiment after experiment with as little sleep as possible to try to push this idea into some kind of practical application as soon as possible. And then once he figured, like, he saw the problem, he would hand it off to somebody else to turn it into a product. But there was no, like, organization or rhyme or reason to, like, the way Edison spent his time. And there's a great description of this a few pages later where it says, systematic as Edison, so first of all, it says Edison possessed a colossal ego, of course, but systematic as he was when pursuing his own ends, he had an almost pathological hostility to any form of system, order, or discipline imposed from without.

Starting point is 00:27:04 So the mandate is clear, build a business around me, systematize that business. Do not try to systemize the way I spend my time. I do not want input from others on how I'm doing that. And so I mentioned earlier, I really think of Insul and a lot of the, like Carnegie and Rockefeller and Ford, they're definitely company builders, but even more bigger than that, they're industry builders. And so Insul was the same way, because remember, Edison's going to give up on electricity. Insul stays with it for his entire life. He works with, well, let me just read this line to you.

Starting point is 00:27:37 It says, that was to be Insul's job for nearly 12 years with Edison and 40 years thereafter to make Edison's system work. And so why do I say it's really industry building? Because listen to all the things they have to invent that you just wouldn't if you're not building an industry. The inventions, the electricity inventions, could not be immediately used with existing devices. So to make his electric light usable, Edison and Insel had first to invent every component of an electric generating and distribution system, and then to create the manufacturing industry to make them, an engineering organization to install them, and a central station industry to buy them. Hundreds of minor parts of a complete electrical system had yet to be devised. They had to develop practical switches, sockets, cables, junction boxes, wires, insulators,

Starting point is 00:28:25 fuses, meters, filaments, voltage regulators, and scores of other devices. This is company building on hard mode because it is industry building. So the great thing about Insul, especially from Thomas Edison's viewpoint, is like you could just drop him in anywhere. It's like, hey, there's a problem over here. Just go fix it. And then you can just know that he's going to fix it without having to think about it. But he is building a world-class network and then priceless experience. So he's going to take this network and the experience that he builds or that he picks up working for Edison

Starting point is 00:29:13 and then apply it to his own business a few years later. But I do want to point out because it's kind of crazy how much time I had spent with this book. So first of all, the book is not easy to read. And it's not because it's kind of crazy is like how much time I had spent with this book. So first of all, the book is not easy to read. And it's not because it's bad writing. It's because there's so much, it's so high, like information dense.

Starting point is 00:29:33 And there's so much going on because Insoul is going to wind up having hundreds and hundreds of companies and it's very complex structures. So let's say the book is 350 pages. It's not. It's probably 700 pages because I had to reread several pages multiple times. But what is happening is while I'm reading the book, I forget. Like the intro is, hey, this guy, the subtitles, the rise and fall of a billionaire utility tycoon. He is so gifted and has such great ideas that I had to remind myself over and over again while I'm reading this book, this has a terrible, unhappy, disastrous ending. And you just cannot believe,

Starting point is 00:30:13 and that's why I think it's really going to resonate in my brain and why I want to talk to you about it, is because it doesn't matter how many great decisions you make throughout your 50 year career. If you over-leverage yourself, you can ruin your entire life work and you can die with no money and all your accomplishments wiped out. So I'm going to get to that in a minute because you see his fatal flaw, that barring, excessive barring and excessive leverage just became this deep-rooted habit with him. And you'll see that because he's going to mention in a minute. So this is all the stuff that he's accumulating just in the short four years. So now I fast forwarded four years in the story. It's only 25, but he's met virtually all important figures in the business world.

Starting point is 00:30:53 He had accumulated a bunch of experiences, which would ultimately prove very useful in the business that he's going to set up and run for the next 40 years after that. He knew everybody who was anybody in the electric business. He had picked up firsthand knowledge of urban politics on a depth and a scale that was rare. He had learned enough about manufacturing, selling, promoting, administration, and organizing. And he had also learned the meaning of credit and what it could do. Borrowing became a deep rooted habit with him. He would say, never pay cash when you could give a note. And so I just want to pull up a couple of things that came to my mind. They all come from Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett when I got to this part, because he had a bunch of different companies. One of them,

Starting point is 00:31:35 let me just give you the idea of how highly leveraged he is. After the Great Depression, this guy is going to wind up borrowing another $200 million. Again, he had gone through a bunch of, this is the very difficult part about this Again, he had gone through a bunch of, this is the very difficult part about this. It's like he'd gone through a bunch of different financial panics. He didn't really believe this was his fatal, one of his fatal flaws, I should say. He didn't believe the Great Depression was anything different. He's like, oh, this is like, I've been through a bunch of financial panics. Everything will be fine. I'll be back in like a couple months, a couple of years. And so he literally called to the White House with a

Starting point is 00:32:03 bunch of other, a bunch of of other prominent American businessmen. And Hoover's like, oh, just conduct business as usual. Now, all this falls. The weird thing is when you read about Insull in the biographer, too, and I watched a couple videos on him as well. They all like, oh, it wasn't his fault. It was the Great Depression. It's like, no, no, no. It's always the founder's fault.

Starting point is 00:32:22 It doesn't mean he was. I don't think he committed fraud. He winds up being, I'm not even going to talk about that. It's later on in the book, though. He winds up going to trial. He beats every single trial. From my reading of this, it's very hard to tell. I don't believe that he did this.

Starting point is 00:32:37 I just thought he made a bunch of terrible, terrible decisions and had way, way, way too much leverage. So I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me just read this because this idea came up to me. It's like, oh, never pay cash when you can give a note. And so what I did is I went to founders notes and I searched leverage and specifically this note that I had in my mind on the dangers of leverage and the fact that this is coming from Warren Buffett's shareholder letter. And he says like most people won't heed history's warning. So I just want to read because this is essentially exactly what happens, very similar to what happens to Sam Insull. Warren Buffett says,

Starting point is 00:33:07 unquestionably, some people have become very rich through the use of borrowed money. However, that's also been a way to get very poor, which is exactly what happened to Insull. When leverage works, it magnifies your gains. Your spouse thinks you're clever and your neighbors get envious, but leverage is addictive. And he was addicted to it from a very early age. And maybe you had to, I'm not like, again, I'm not sitting here, here oh i wouldn't have done this if i was him i would never have that like highly likely that sam it's all smarter and more talented and more accomplished than i am and so it'd be very arrogant to think that if i was presented in the same situation that i wouldn't have made his same decisions the point is like we need that we're learning from history

Starting point is 00:33:41 because hitler as munger said learning from history is a form of leverage it's to know this shit so oh i don't do this if I'm ever presented with that opportunity, right? So I want to be very clear. When leverage works, it magnifies your gains. Your spouse thinks you're clever and your neighbors get envious, but leverage is addictive. It seems that he was very addicted at an early age. Maybe he had to be, I don't know. Once having profited from its wonders, very few people retreat to a more conservative practices. And to repeat, as we all learned in the third grade and some relearned in 2008, any series of positive numbers, however

Starting point is 00:34:10 impressive the numbers may be, evaporates when multiplied by a single zero. History tells us that leverage all too often produces zeros, even when it is employed by very smart people. It's impossible to read this book and not think that Sam Insull was very smart, right? That is the dangerous. That is why it's going to latch onto your and I's brain. It's like, oh my God, this happened to him. I need to avoid this. Leverage, of course, can be lethal to businesses. Companies with large debts often assume that these obligations can be refinanced as they mature. This something happened to Insull. He was guaranteed. Don't worry, you have unlimited credit. And then the bank you don't and reynolds wrapped that assumption is usually valid occasionally though either because of company specific problems are

Starting point is 00:34:49 a worldwide shortage of credit which is what he goes through what insult goes to maturities must actually be met by payment for that only cash will do the job end of warren buffett's shoulder there two quotes that i always think about on the dangers of too much leverage. Charlie Munger said, smart men go broke three ways, liquor, ladies, and leverage. Sam Insull was married to the same woman his whole life. He never drank a drop of alcohol in his entire life. He did not go broke because of ladies or liquor. He went broke because of leverage. Warren Buffett, whenever a bright and rich person, that is what Sam Ensel was. He was a bright and rich person. Warren Buffett, whenever a bright and rich person goes broke, it have to run the company. And Edison is, he's not interested in it. He's off on other things now, right? He got it started and then goes off and does something else.

Starting point is 00:35:50 And he does, it's not like he's going to give you a list of like, this is what you should do. This is what he tells him. Edison says, do it big, Sammy. Make it either a big success or a big failure. And so he takes over a company. The stock is around $25 a share. They have 200 employees. Six years later, the stock will be $150 a share and he has 6,000 people. And so not only does he have to be a manufacturing of all this electrical equipment, but he also has

Starting point is 00:36:16 to become, this is where he has to learn how to be a financier. And he says at almost times a magician because of this rapid growth that the company is having, they're perpetually short on cash. And so that is why they're always having to, they have no operating capital. So they're constantly having to borrow, borrow a lot of its debt, actually way more of its debt than was equity, which was interesting as well. They actually had a hard time to get people to invest in the company. And so this is a description of this problem he's

Starting point is 00:36:46 having. He spent almost half his time going from bank to bank to borrow and to beg money on short term notes and juggling his available cash and credit with extreme dexterity in order to make ends meet. This experience was frantic, nerve wracking and disgusting to him. Now, these companies are going to be essentially taken over and recapitalized by a combination of Henry Villard and J.P. Morgan. There's more about the details of that in the book. But I really the reason I want to bring this up is because I really want to hammer home how Insull operated, because I think these principles, again, minus the leverage, are very valuable to this day. Fortified for the first time with working capital, Insull reorganized and integrated the manufacturing operations, rendering them vastly more efficient. Incel followed a set of basic principles that he would follow throughout his career. Remember, he is somewhere between 25 and

Starting point is 00:37:33 31 years old that they're describing him here. The first was to expand. Expand by raising new capital whenever possible. Expand by plowing profits back into the business. Expand by borrowing every nickel he could lay his hands on. The next was to treat his workers generously and humanely. So I need to pause there. This constant expansion, remember, he's trying to turn a luxury product into something that is universally cheap and abundant. And he knew from the very get-go, scale is the key to that. I have to build, in some cases, the biggest electricity generating plants in the world. And obviously to do that,

Starting point is 00:38:09 he's gonna need a ton of cash. The next was to treat his workers generously and humanely, not out of sentimentality, but for the sound economic reason that discontent breeds stoppages, and stoppages are inefficient, irrational, and costly. Another principle was to spread fixed costs. This is related to his desire to expand and scale, okay? Another was to spread fixed costs as thinly

Starting point is 00:38:30 as possible by diversifying operations in order to keep the plant busy at all times. Keep that idea in your mind for later on, this idea of like, okay, how do we spread fixed costs as thinly as possible? He's going to vertically integrate. This is what it's like. It'll make a lot of sense. Like, why does he keep buying electric part companies and then these electric traction and like these electric, essentially like trolley or train companies? It'll make more sense in a little bit. But really, the main point is because he wants to spread his spread as fixed costs as thinly as possible by diversifying operations in order to keep the plants busy at all time.

Starting point is 00:39:02 And then another one is sell products as cheaply as possible. Before he had any proof, it was his belief that lower prices would bring greater volumes, which would then lower unit costs of production and thus yield greater profits. Okay, so everything I just described to you, he was doing in New York. But at the very beginning of the book, it mentions, hey, it's that billionaire utility tycoon from Chicago. How did he get to Chicago and why did he go? So because he's one of the most prominent people in the early electricity industry, people ask him for advice. He gets a letter from the Chicago Edison Company and they're looking for a president. And so they're like, hey, do you know anybody that'd be good for the job? Like who's the best person we could hire? And I don't think they wrote this letter thinking that they would get him because at the time he's running General Electric. That's a $50

Starting point is 00:39:49 million company, which is insane. And he's making $36,000 a year just in salary with, you know, obviously other compensation in there. And Chicago Edison Company is one fiftieth the size. It's not even a million dollar company. And in the letter, they're trying to find somebody that would work for $12,000 a year. So a third of the salary, one-fiftieth of the market cap value. But they are offering something that is enticing, and whoever they hire gets to run things the way that they want it to run. They're looking for an operator, right? These are just investors and members of the board. He's going to take the job. Then when he's leaving, he says, let me actually get there. I'll skip ahead real quick. He gives us toast and he says that one day he's going to make the Chicago Edison bigger than General Electric and everybody else except him

Starting point is 00:40:39 laughed. He was not joking. He believed that he was going to do that. And so it says the job opportunity, if he took it, would be bound only by the limits of his own ability and ambition. I don't think he believed he had any limits on his ability and his ambition. And he wasn't going to actually offer himself up for the job. And he's actually having a conversation with his mom. And he's like, I would take the job, but, you know, they're asking me to help them find the best, like, possible fit. And his mom's like, what are you talking about? Like, you should do that.

Starting point is 00:41:13 She goes, they asked him in his capacity with the GE to recommend the best available man. Did they not? Well, then was he not the best available man? And so he should sit right down, and he obviously believed that he was the best available man, right not the best available man? And so he should sit right down. And he obviously believed that he was the best available man. Right. And so his mom's like, you should sit right down and write them a letter saying so.

Starting point is 00:41:31 And so he sends the letter back and they're like, oh, oh yeah. Oh, I didn't even know this was a possibility. Yes, please take the job. And so he accepts the job. And then he says, hey, I want you to do, I have one demand. You need to issue $250,000 in new stock. Remember, the stock, the market cap is $885,000 at the point that he takes the job. He says, you need to issue $250,000 more in stock and you need to sell it to me to buy the stock.

Starting point is 00:42:00 And so borrowed the entire sum from Marshall Field, who's this older, successful entrepreneur who in his old age figured that the best possible place to invest money was in bright young men. So we still see the exact same thing today. You have wildly successful people. Jeff Bezos is still making investments, right? And what is he doing? He's like, the best possible place to invest is probably in bright young entrepreneurs. And so we see the same exact thing, same thing here, where Marshall Field is like, yeah, I'll loan you the money because this is a great investment for me.

Starting point is 00:42:28 And so this is the point in which Insull goes, and this is what he's going to, this is his starting point for the next 40 years. This is, he's going to turn this company and other companies into this giant holding company, conglomerate, whatever you want to call it. And it's going to be phenomenally successful,

Starting point is 00:42:42 worth a couple of billion dollars right before it collapses. And so he comes to Chicago and he's like, hey, we're going to invert the way other people think about electricity. We're going to try to make electricity cheaper, not more expensive. And to do that, I need the largest possible base of customers. And so we have to aim for a monopoly. Now, you and I know today, like utility companies are something like I can shop around. It's like, oh, I want my electricity.

Starting point is 00:43:05 They're government mandated like monopolies, right? That was Insul's idea. The world we're living in was influenced by this guy that you and I are talking about. So it says, Insul was thinking differently from the others in one vital respect. To most others, monopoly was desirable because it would enable them to charge higher prices and thus make more money. To Insul, it was imperative because it would enable him to build on a broader base of customers. All of his thinking was therefore inverted. Their thinking was based on the premise that electricity should be considered a luxury

Starting point is 00:43:32 product and that should be sold at the highest possible price. Insul's thinking was based on the premise that electricity should be considered for everybody, even the smallest consumer, and that if we're able to fulfill that goal, it should be sold at the lowest possible price. And it is for that reason that Insul set out to do, to build a monopoly before it was mandated by the government. And you see this at the very beginning because the very first meeting he has with the executive committee for this new company, Chicago Edison, that he's taking over,

Starting point is 00:43:58 he's like, all right, we need to buy our second largest competitor. And so they help raise the money and they do that. Three months later, he goes, okay, now we're going to buy our biggest competitor. And those first two moves. Now, this is why he, I know I've repeated this a lot, why he, you can really think of him as like the, one way to think about it was like the Rockefeller of the electric utility industry, because Rockefeller believed that too. He's like, listen, if you're going to,

Starting point is 00:44:21 you're competing with a bunch of people, let's say you have 20 competitors, don't go for number 17 and 18, go for number 17 and 18. Go for the top. Try to knock out the first guy. In this case, Insull knocked out the second guy and then the first guy. Because he's like, if you can achieve that, then the rest of them follow. And so after the combination of Chicago Edison and his two largest competitors, he is running at the time the largest electric power station in the world. And he would continue to do so for the next 40 years. And another thing that he had in common, this is why I always say

Starting point is 00:44:50 the most important lesson from his entrepreneurship is the importance of focus. It's not like this guy was like, hey, I know more than anybody else in the world about the electric industry. Let me go diversify into something else. Why would you do that? He understood the potential of his industry in a way that others did not. You could say the same thing for Rockefeller and oil. Like Rockefeller is the, it just pops up off this page over and over again. I think of Edwin Land when, you know, he created the, the, his, the, no, like his invention created his industry, which then he had a monopoly on for, for 40 plus years. He's like, no one else in the world, because we're patent protected, can make instant photography. And you want me to go make a copier?

Starting point is 00:45:26 And you want me to go make a printer? And so there's many examples where he's talking to people inside his company. He's like, no, we're only going to do things that other people cannot do. And that is just one of the main, main benefits of focus. And so what does he do? One of his earliest decisions is like he's buying these other electric generating companies. But then he goes and he buys Fort Wayne and Chicago Arc-like companies. Why is he doing that? This is his first step in vertical integration,

Starting point is 00:45:49 because these people are manufacturing electrical equipment that the people generate, these generating plants need. He's like, oh, I'm going to buy this company because all the other smaller companies of him have to go to these companies to buy stuff they need. And listen to this. This is going to be Rockefeller too. This policy quickly paid off. Caught between bad times and difficulty even in buying replacement light bulbs, six of the small central stations in Chicago gave up in 1894. This is Cleveland Massacre's win in a couple months. I think Rockefeller swallowed up 17 or 25 of his smaller competitors or something. It's very similar to what's happening here in Chicago in 1894 and 1895.

Starting point is 00:46:28 These six smaller stations sold out to Chicago Edison. So he knocked off two. Then he knocked off, or he knocked off the second biggest competitor. Then he knocked off the first. Now that company combined with those three companies, right? He's the biggest player in town. Now he's found a way to get six other smaller people to

Starting point is 00:46:46 sell to him. So they sell to Insull. When he won, Insull was always generous to the losers, paying them more for their plants than they were worth. Rockefeller did the same thing. This is incredible. This was not him being benevolent, but good business. This is a great line. Insull recognized that while money may not buy friends, it will keep many a man from becoming an enemy. And people, while they're watching him do this, like, this is dangerous. You shouldn't do this. This is a little boutique. You know, this is a tiny little business. What are you doing? Optimists at his time, right? They're like, okay, how many possible customers can you have in a city of Chicago? The most optimistic in the early electricity industry, they guess that maybe, maybe one day you might be able to get 25,000

Starting point is 00:47:34 customers, Sam. 25,000 customers. You're spending a lot of money for only 25,000 customers. You know what Sam thought that number was? He's like, well, how many people live in Chicago? And they're like a million people. He's like, okay, so I'm going to get a million people. Think about that. His guess for how big his market is, and he actually shot underneath that, he's going to have way more than a million people. I think his companies wind up combined producing all the electricity for like one eighth of the entire country's population. But think about this, everybody around him, again, this is why I tied it in with focus and the importance of like, if you understand the potential of your industry in a way that others do not, why

Starting point is 00:48:12 the hell are you diversifying into something else? Just keep going down that curve, right? Because the other people that thought they understood maybe somewhat as much as he did, they were 40 times, their most optimistic projections were 40 times smaller, right, than Insul's. And Insul's were even, what, maybe 10, I don't even know how many people were in the country at the time. Let's say he's one eighth and there's 100 million people in the country.

Starting point is 00:48:37 That means he was off on his own estimate by, what, 12, 13 times. And so look what he achieves in his first six years. Oh, and I didn't even mention this. He's doing this during a financial panic. So again, I think you can learn the wrong lessons from your own experience. He's like, I've been through a bunch of financial panics. I survived them. And I even prospered in them. How different can the Great Depression be? Ooh, yikes. Could be very different, actually. And so half a dozen years. So he's got six years. Many of these are during some kind of bad financial depression, but not the Great Depression. His company was 10 times as large as it had been

Starting point is 00:49:10 when he took it over. And during this period, so that's 24 consecutive quarters, he was able to pay a quarterly dividend of at least 2%, 24 times in a row. And so he has a great understanding of what we would call public relations, even though there was no such term as public relations in his row. And so he has a great understanding of what we would call public relations, even though there was no such term as public relations in his day. And this is what he realizes is like, well, okay, the bigger I get, the more scale I get, the cheaper I make. Remember, he's going for monopoly so he can make it cheaper. And as a result, his customers love it. They go from having to burn kerosene or candles, and now they have electric lights. And so he's a beloved person in this community. He's built a lot of relationships with a bunch of politicians, and he has a great

Starting point is 00:49:53 line about this. So he says, more profound than his organizational ability was Insul's sense of public relations. To him, the moment of applause was the moment for action. The moment of applause was the moment for action. And so of applause was the moment for action. And so he's beloved and he goes, hey, these should be government regulated monopolies. That was his idea. So he goes, he initiates, and he brings to successful conclusion the movement for utility regulation in the United States.

Starting point is 00:50:17 And he believes this is necessary because he believes that you have to expand. You have to spread all your fixed costs over the largest customer base as possible. This is the most effective way to do this. Some people have described this as regulatory capture. And so this push for this like legalized monopoly, it helps them expand, which obviously was what his goal is. He's like, I have to spread all my fixed costs over the largest customer base. If I have a legalized monopoly, it's the best way, the best tool I have to extend my customer base. Now, here's the problem too,

Starting point is 00:50:45 where this constant expansion is the way they thought about the constant raising of debt. If you go back to what Warren Buffett said earlier, companies with these large debts often assume that these obligations can be refinanced as they mature. That assumption is usually valid. Occasionally though, either because of company specific problems or worldwide shortage of credit, which charges must actually be met by payment. And for that, only cash will do the job. When that happens to Insull, he doesn't have any of the cash, and so he loses everything. But the way they looked at it was, hey, to expand this new industry, we're going to need vast quantities of debt capital. And it says electric companies, like modern governments, borrow money

Starting point is 00:51:23 that they cannot and do not intend to repay except by perpetually refinancing. They are borrowing money that they do not and cannot intend to replay expect except by perpetually refinancing. And so this constant need for more money that's ever present because this guy never stops expanding. It actually leads to the invention. They credit him with the invention of the open-ended mortgage. And that's, I think, the main lesson here is that the way you position and frame things actually matters, and it can actually get people to comply with your request for something that they previously declined. And so he goes to the board or the executive committee and he says, hey, I need $100 million in bonds. This is 1896. They're like, are you crazy?

Starting point is 00:52:12 $100 million in bonds. And a year earlier, he had tried to get them to do $6 million. So this is again how fast this guy moves and how his ambition is and his scale. Think about that. Last year, he goes to them. He's like, I need $ six million dollars in bonds they said no comes back and actually he goes okay and he said no on six million but i need a hundred a hundred million of bonds and they tell him no again of course and so he winds up talking to a friend of his who actually had a lot of experience in financing the early railroads in the united states and they had this idea he goes hey um you're gonna have a hard time convincing your board to accept that. I have a way you can reposition this. He says, why don't you ask them

Starting point is 00:52:51 for a mortgage with no limit? And he says, a mortgage with no limit might seem much smaller and more conservative than one with a limit of $100 million. And you sound like, that sounds crazy. How could that possibly work? Insul proposed to them a mortgage with no limit, and they accepted. Under this mortgage, Insull would issue half a billion dollars in bonds before he was through. So you come and put a number on it, that 100 million scares the crap out of him. Then he said, hey, I essentially have this open-ended mortgage. I'll draw from it little by little, whatever the case is. They accept it. And then over the long term, he actually gets five times the amount that they initially did not approve. And this is where this is the interesting thing.

Starting point is 00:53:30 He was describing to other people, like when he's raising capital on the people inside of his company, like what is he doing? And he called it massing production. According to this book, they say he is the one that came up with the term mass production. Insul soon began describing what he was doing as massing production. Think about it as amassing production, right? A phrase that his publishers shortened to mass production long before historians mistakenly ascribed that term to Henry Ford. Massing production turned into mass production. Another very fascinating idea. Remember, he was acquisitive by nature, right? So he's buying all these companies. And what he realizes is like, okay, well, I'm buying them. Sometimes I'm paying more than they're worth because money is a good way to avoid people being enemies with me, right? I want people on my side. Think of a Rockefeller essentially built a company full of founders, right? He just bought their company. And then he's like, hey, you guys are talented. Come advise me. And then you'll be rewarded with Standard Oil stock. Now, this is fascinating. So he starts buying all these new properties.

Starting point is 00:54:28 He's like, oh, wait, I'm not only applying scale, I'm acquiring customers, I'm acquiring equipment. More important than that, I get talent. So he's like aqua hiring people back in the day, right? He would devise methods and he would detect talented people. And if he thought they were talented, he would partner with them or buy their entire company. And so he said new properties were the most prolific producers of executives

Starting point is 00:54:49 inside of the in-sold organization. That sounds a lot like Rockefeller. Another Rockefeller-esque thing. Sell at the lowest price possible. Sell ridiculously low. He sold so low that no one could afford not to have electricity service. To win customers,

Starting point is 00:55:04 in-sold sold electricity at rates so low they appalled other Central Station men. That's like Rockefeller trying to buy you out and you're saying no and he just shows you his books and you're like, oh my God, this guy can make a profit at prices that would drive me out of business. To win customers, he sold electricity at rates so low that they appalled other Central Station men.

Starting point is 00:55:26 Now he is building a public utility, so he's going to need an advanced understanding of public relations. And he understood that you must craft the story and you must educate your customers. So there's three separate examples, I think all go together, that talk about this advanced understanding of public relations. And I think there's just a lot of good ideas in here. And so it says he displayed an advanced concept of public relations. I care not, he said, how good you operate. How able may be the management of your property. So he's talking about to all these, he's got, I don't even know, 150 subsidiaries. This is where it gets so complicated and I think led to his downfall was how complicated his organizational structure and how many different entities were involved or how good your engineer may be and

Starting point is 00:56:09 how perfect your plans are. Unless you conduct your business as to get the goodwill of the community in which you are working, you might as well just shut up shop and move away. He's talking about public relations. Convinced that the vulnerability of utilities derived from a lack of popular understanding, Insull attempted to educate his customers. He began making public appearances at every opportunity. He was instructing employees in public relations. He established an advertising department, which soon expanded into one of the first full-fledged public relations departments in existence. He published a magazine called Electric City and distributed the magazine free of charge by the tens of thousands all over Chicago. But he said by far the most effective device Insull had for winning over the public was rate cuts. This is exactly what Henry Ford did later on in his career when the Model T was up and running.

Starting point is 00:57:01 He effectively was able to stop paying for any advertising because all he did was try to root out any inefficiency and any waste and just keep making his automobile manufacturing plants more efficient, thus allowing him to drop the price of his car. And so every time he dropped the price of the car, it would be picked up in the newspapers. And that made him beloved because this thing that used to cost $6,000 and only be available for the rich, I can buy it for $250. So again, the most effective device that Insull had for winning over the public was rate cuts. The cuts were simply good economics, but they also created immense publicity, just like

Starting point is 00:57:36 I described for Henry Ford. Immense publicity value. Who had ever heard of a public utility voluntarily cutting its rates? He hits on that idea that you need to pay attention to public opinion. These are your customers. This is very important to you. The customers, obviously, he's heavily regulated, so it also influences the customers are also voters. From Insull's position, the task ahead was thus one of swaying public opinion. And at a time when public relations and mass selling were in their infancy, in this art, Insul had few peers.

Starting point is 00:58:06 And so they make the point later on in the book. It's like, listen, say there's 50,000 people who understand the necessity of the service that you provide, right? But there are 100 million Americans that have not even thought of it. He says, our task is to see that the figures are reversed, right? So it's 50,000 people that understand the importance of all the work that goes into what we're doing, but there's a hundred million. Those hundred, those are potential customers. We need to reverse that. We need to make the people that understand and are customers of ours, the majority. And one way to do that is to one, make your product as valuable as possible. Like yes, the value to cost ratio excessively high, right? But also tell them

Starting point is 00:58:44 what goes into making and delivering the service that they enjoy. So he had later, much later on in the book, he has these two rules. They said it was a concise summary of like his principles of public relations. And this is now insole writing, right? He says, practically everything

Starting point is 00:58:59 that a public utility company does affects the relations between the company and its customers. And anything it does is therefore an item of public relations. The first objective in public relations work is to produce the best possible service at the lowest predictable rates. Why? Because that is of the greatest interest to the public. And then once that's taken care of, that leads us to the second. The public is in no position to judge service and rates when it knows nothing about the multitude of details involved in furnishing the service. So let me read this. Hence, the second objective in the public utility industry's public relations work, right, is a public well-informed on the tangible details as well as the social and

Starting point is 00:59:41 industrial significance of the industry and all its ramifications. What is he saying? This is exactly what David Ogilvie said in the 1960s, what Claude Hopkins said in the early 1900s, 1910s, which is apparently Sam Insull had derived from his own experience. You need to tell your customers what goes into making your product. It may be normal to you because it's your everyday thing. It is not normal to them. And if you explain and you educate your customers, they will find it fascinating. It may be normal to you because it's your everyday thing. It is not normal to them.

Starting point is 01:00:08 And if you explain and you educate your customers, they will find it fascinating. And as a result, it will make the service and the product that you provide more valuable in their eyes. That is absolutely incredible that he understood that at the time in which he did. So this is the end result of his career before the collapse, right? By the time it was over, electric power would be so abundant and cheap in the United States that people who had never expected to use it found it as natural and as necessary as breathing. So there is going to be a ton of regulation that is put into law after the collapse of his empire. There's something that takes place that I have to tell you that, shocking to me, might be shocking to you. Every employee of Insul's companies were stock salesmen.

Starting point is 01:00:57 So what does that mean? Like the employee that would come and check your meter would also like knock on your door and try to sell you stock in the company. This is crazy. He would see his personal personal fortune increase from around $5 million in 1927 to $150 million in 1929 and then tumble by mid 1932 to zero and below. To a net indebtedness so large that as one banker put it, he was too broke to be bankrupt. With him went hundreds of thousands of stockholders who shared his faith in his own invulnerability.

Starting point is 01:01:36 And so they set the context where I could see a lot of people that like essentially say, hey, you know, and so was like, this is a macroeconomic environment. The Great Depression is kind of out of his hands. Yeah, but it's your choice to take this. Like this is when I read this paragraph is going to sound very familiar. Like, you know, we've gone through many times where like credit and money is essentially free. And that was happening in the late 1920s. And so you have all these bankers, they come up to him and they're they try to like essentially

Starting point is 01:02:02 just feel like they're deluging him with easy credit. And they really, in many cases, beg him to accept it for any purpose. And so one of the banks that's going to wind up screwing him over later because they're like, oh, the money's there, the money's there, we'll back you. And then they wind up losing their ass so they can't back him is Continental Bank. And they would come up to him and they're saying, hey, just so you know, if you fellows ever want to borrow any more than the legal limit, all you have to do is organize a new corporation and we'll be happy to lend you another $21 million.

Starting point is 01:02:31 They said that at a party. I mean, please take 20, like set up another company. It doesn't even matter if you know what you're going to do with the money yet. Let me just, let me wire you. Let me send you this 21 million, please. Another banker, Mr. Insul,

Starting point is 01:02:44 isn't there something you could use our $10 million for? Anything? Anything? Something? Just let us give you $10 million. And so at the same time this is happening, there is a corporate raider by the name of Cyrus Eaton, who is starting in late 1927. And for the next several years, he begins buying up large blocks of stocks in Insul's companies. And so he's got three main companies. And this is where the story gets really, really, really confusing. Somewhere between 1920 and 1929, Insul realizes that he did not control enough stock in his operating companies to prevent a takeover. And so he creates two investment companies through which he could control the utilities.

Starting point is 01:03:23 And that may have been the case if it wasn't for the great depression but those become over leveraged and as the prices go down he keeps having to put up more and more collateral uh we'll get there in one second so i'm going to give you like a brief overview you have the great depression and again like without these act his actions after the great depression his companies could have survived you know it's not like you're going to cut uh like you're going to cut your electricity unless you absolutely are in complete dire situations. But it's what he does. It's like how much money and debt he takes on after.

Starting point is 01:03:51 Like after and the beginning and through the Great Depression. This is, I don't have any words to describe this. I don't understand this. I don't understand how somebody so smart and so accomplished and with so much experience does this. So it says, then came the great crash in October. The first thing he did was go to the rescue of his employees

Starting point is 01:04:11 who were caught with margin brokerage accounts by supplying him from his personal portfolio, whatever additional collateral they needed. 10 days later, as if nothing had happened, 10 days after the crash in October, right? Black Friday. Or Black Tuesday, rather. Sorry, not Black Friday. Black Friday's the sales. Okay, so Black Tuesday. So that'd be October 29th, 1929. 10 days later, as if nothing had happened, he proceeded with the long-planned opening

Starting point is 01:04:34 of the palatial new Civic Opera House. He undertook a huge new venture of a construction on a natural gas pipeline that he was running from Texas to Chicago. That is a project, that one project alone would cost $80 million. Remember, this is $80 million in 1929 dollars, okay? What he did next would suggest that he was possessed of delusions of grandeur. Supremely confident that this depression would be neither longer nor more severe than those he had weathered in the past, he expanded far more than turned out to be prudent. He returned

Starting point is 01:05:04 to debt financing and he bought Eaton's Holdings. So that's that corporate raider. Insel's company spent $200 million on capital investment during 1930. Most of that is debt. So 200 million times that by 20 to get a rough estimate of today's dollars. And he did that in one year. I don't understand this. Every page, I'm like, why is he doing this? Why is he doing this? He doesn't know something about myself. And then I get to this point, it's like, this is a 50-year successful career destroyed. This is terrifying to me. And so people around him were shocked that he was willing to take on more than $200 million of new debt in the wake of the great crash. This reminded me of, if you listen to the episode that I did on Ted Turner, it's episode 327. He winds up having to get bailed out by John Malone. And John Malone says something in that book that I think applies

Starting point is 01:05:56 to Sam Insull. John Malone describing Ted Turner says, he took his leverage too high and the structure of the leverage was a problem. So he spends that 200 million debt, right? Then he's got to buy out this corporate raider. They agreed a $63 million transaction, goes back to the bank, right? And then they pull. Four times in the month of May and June in 1930, the president of Continental Bank said that they'd be behind him all the way. Four times, Insull refused. Then he came back a fifth time and Insull said yes. He says the only way to finance this purchase was through bank loans secured by the stocks from his two holding companies. So somewhere between $56 and $63 million more of debt, right, secured by stocks from his two holding companies.

Starting point is 01:06:44 Chicago can't, he's usually dealing with Chicago banks at this time. Then he has to go to New York. He hates the New York bankers. He has to go to New York because Chicago can't fulfill this, right? And he says the various loans were extremely complex. What did John Malone just say about Ted Turner? He took his leverage too high and the structure of the leverage was a problem. This is exactly what's taking place in Sam Insull's life and career at this point. And he's doing this in a market that's dropping like a stone. Each drop in the market would force the investment trust to put up more collateral against their bank loans. If the market were driven down far enough, the bankers would have as collateral the entire portfolios of Insull's

Starting point is 01:07:17 company with that control of the whole Insull empire. And so as this is happening, what do you think the reaction is? They keep buying. They ignore, they're ignorant of the danger. And so this is what they were doing. In essence, they would buy up Insul securities on the exchanges and then try to sell as much as possible in small lots through their secondary market,

Starting point is 01:07:39 which is like the customer ownership. And then the guy that is doing this for Insul said this, it's very simple, he said, you can't go on buying your own stocks forever. Sooner or later, you run out of money. In spite of everything he knew, Insole could not, as late as mid-summer 1931, bring himself to believe that he was in serious danger. But he was. The end was very near. To keep the market up through the summer, they tried to keep the market up through the summer, they tried to keep the market up through the summer of 1931.

Starting point is 01:08:07 But in September, England went off the gold standard and the New York Stock Exchange reacted with complete hysteria. Short sellers spread a rumor that Insull was dead or dying. And in that week alone, the stocks of his three companies dropped by a value of $150 million. As the market declined, they had to put up ever-increasing amounts of securities as collateral against their bank loans.

Starting point is 01:08:30 By mid-December, the well had run dry. Every nickel of the combined portfolios of the two investment trusts were in the hands of bank creditors. That is a Reynolds rap. The creditors then in turn demand that he resigns. On Monday, June 6th, the deed was done. Insull dictated and signed papers all day, drafting resignations from chairmanship and presidencies and receiverships of 60-odd corporations. All afternoon, as the

Starting point is 01:08:57 orgy of registrations and resolutions went on, newspapermen swarmed around Insull's door. When it was over, he emerged. His statement to the press was a single sentence. Well, gentlemen, here I am, after 40 years, a man without a job. He eventually flees and is extradited back to the United States, put on trial multiple times, beats every single trial that can never prove any fraud. I do believe his statement that he made. He says, I have erred, but my greatest error was in underestimating the effect of the financial panic on American securities and particularly on the companies I was working so hard to build.

Starting point is 01:09:33 He didn't even understand the danger he was in. I worked with all my energy to save those companies. I made mistakes, but they were honest mistakes. They were errors in judgment, but not dishonest manipulations. I do think that is true. For 53 years, for his 53 years of labor to make electric power universally cheap and abundant, Insull had his reward from a grateful people. He was allowed to die outside of prison. He does not live for long. The only remaining enemy of Insull's was boredom. Like Napoleon, Insull was required to spend his declining years in well-fed inactivity. For two more years, his life dragged on. He followed the news of business and politics with keen interest, but there was rarely anyone with whom to discuss

Starting point is 01:10:17 these subjects, and Insull was ill-equipped to play the passive spectator. On the morning of July 16th, Insull entered a Paris subway, and while waiting for a train, he had a heart attack and died. His body remained unidentified for several hours, and the official police statement reported that he had nothing in his pockets. And that is where I'll leave it for the full story. Highly recommend getting the book. If you buy the book using the links that's in the show notes, you'll be supporting the podcast at the same time. That is 336 books down, 1,000 to go, and I'll talk to you again soon. Okay, so two quick things before you go. Number one, Founders Only. I'm doing an in-person conference for founders and CEOs with founder mentality in Austin, Texas, March 12th

Starting point is 01:11:00 through the 14th. If you have not yet applied to go, go to foundersonly.com. That's founders with an S. Everything I do is founders with a S, okay? So foundersonly.com. Make sure you apply. I'm going through all the applications. It's limited to 150 slots. I'll probably send out like 200 invites and then whoever just finalizes their registration fastest will get those. So if you already applied, make sure you check your email. I'm emailing, I'm sending messages on LinkedIn. So check both those places and just try to finish your registration as fast as possible. If you have not yet applied, there is still time.

Starting point is 01:11:34 Jump in and then every single person that applies will obviously go on the email list in case I fill this one out before I get to your application. And therefore you will automatically be notified. I'm doing a bunch of in-person events and conferences because my goal is to help other founders build relationships with other founders.

Starting point is 01:11:53 There's two things that I'm asked for the most, right? Let me get for years, I was asked, can I get access to your notes and highlights? That's founders' notes. And then, hey, can you build some kind of community? Can I meet other founders that listen to founders? How can we facilitate that? The way I do this is like I build relationships in person. I just think it helps jumpstart things. And so anyways, there's a bunch of people speaking at this conference that are a perfect example of this.

Starting point is 01:12:22 These people are unbelievably impressive. They are very important to me. And we've built a relationship over the last few years because of the podcast. And so I'm calling in favors. These are people that in some cases have never spoken publicly. And in other cases, speak publicly very, very rarely. We're not going to be recording anything.

Starting point is 01:12:41 This is you have to be there or you miss it kind of thing. So if you are interested in doing that, if you're a founder or a CEO, not going to be recording anything. This is you have to be there or you miss it kind of thing. So if you are interested in doing that, if you're a founder or a CEO, there'll be other events that are, you know, open to much more people. But for the very first one, 150 people just for founders and CEOs, foundersonly.com, apply if you haven't. And then if you see a message from me, just try to respond as fast as possible. I'm dedicating the next, this will be done within the next like seven to 14 days, maybe something like that. So time is of the essence. The second thing is if you have not yet subscribed to Founders Notes, go to foundersnotes.com and get access to what I believe is the world's greatest

Starting point is 01:13:22 and world's most valuable notebook for founders. I was sitting here thinking today as I was listening to this episode, because I listen to every single episode before it goes out again, and I was just sitting here thinking, it was like, imagine a young Sam Insull, right? You have somebody that's super smart, super determined, super dedicated. No matter where he starts in life, he's going to make his life a success. And so he finds people he admires and then reads every single thing he could find about them. Thomas Edison being the best example of that. And I was like, imagine if

Starting point is 01:13:57 Sam Ansel is alive today and he had access to Founders Notes. So what Founders Notes is, in case you don't know, is for years, I have been adding every single highlight and every single note on all the books that I read for this podcast into this app called Readwise, right? And then I've gone for years on other people's podcasts, and I tweet about it. I post on LinkedIn about it. I was like, Readwise is the best app I pay for. I could not make the podcast without it. That is legitimate. People think I say this over and over again.

Starting point is 01:14:27 People are like, you have such a good memory. I promise you I don't. It's because I reread and reread and reread same books, same highlights over and over again. And the reason I'm able to do that is because this app allows me to put all of my notes, all my highlights, everything on how I make this podcast, right? All the research. And if you really think about it, I've essentially sat in a room by myself for eight years like a maniac documenting the best and worst ideas from the history of entrepreneurship so we can all learn from them, right? And like Charlie Munger said, learning from history is a form of leverage. And so for the first few years, it was really hard to keep track of all that. And then I discovered Readwise like, oh, this is this is genius and then for years people are sending me messages like i can i get access

Starting point is 01:15:08 to this get access to it and i said no every time like i i don't know a thousand two thousand people i didn't count but there's a lot of people asked this and i said no because i thought it was like a my secret sauce like oh like what if you get access to and you like start a competitor to founders i don't think people are going to start a competitor founders like i realized that was a very like zero sum uh mentality i was having and because what would happen is like i would talk to other founders and like we'd be on the phone they had a problem and i was like oh i would just be searching i'd bring something up they'd say something and i'd search my all of my notes and highlights i'd come up with something it was like really helpful it. It's like, oh, well, not

Starting point is 01:15:47 everybody can be on the phone. Like why don't, and I do this in person in conversations too. In fact, I just had a dinner the other day with three other founders that listened to this podcast. And we essentially spent like two or three hours just talking about all the biographies we were reading. Like Phil Knight, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Steve Jobs, Edwin Lamb. We were talking about all this. And so I pulled out this app over and over again. In fact, all three of them subscribed to Founders Notes, so they had it too. But in any case, I was like, oh, this is like a superpower.

Starting point is 01:16:14 This is why it's the most valuable notebook for founders in the world. So it is, right now, it is, I would not sign up, and this applies to Founders Only and Founders Notes. This is only for people that already have successful companies. Right now, it is, I would not sign up, and this applies to founders only and founders notes. This is only for people that already have successful companies. There's obviously no free trial. You'd have to pay for it. What I consider a free trial is like,

Starting point is 01:16:33 the podcast is a giant free trial. It is free. You can listen to 336 episodes as much as you want, listen to them over and over again, take your own notes, whatever the case is. What I am trying to build is excessively high value. And I would only do it is I would only do this. This is only for people that have already successful companies, because those are the

Starting point is 01:16:53 people that are going to get the most value out of it, because they already have a way to turn that knowledge that's in founders notes into profit. So think about like a young Sam Insull or anybody, anybody running a company. It's like, hey, I want to learn every single thing I can about Steve Jobs. So there's a few different ways that I use Founders Notes. And then when you sign up, you'll get a welcome email, and it goes into detail about this. So it gives you an idea. And oh my god, I saw a preview of the Founders GPT.

Starting point is 01:17:23 That is going to be another feature in Founders Notes. I'd sign up now because as I add features, obviously the price will go up. I don't even have a landing page yet. So you just have to go off this description and do you think like it's valuable if I use I use the product every day. So that should tell you something, right? This is this. This thing's gonna be nuts.

Starting point is 01:17:42 I have so many ideas for it. It's gonna be incredible because I'll get there. I'm getting excited. So I'm going to be testing it for the next few weeks. It'll pop up. If you're already an existing subscriber, don't worry. You'll be notified when this feature is available. I don't know if I've ever been more excited about anything.

Starting point is 01:17:58 So the way I use Founders Notes right now is when you log in and you sign up, you're dropped onto this page. And at the very top page, it's going to be self-explanatory. It says search highlights. So this is put in any, you could put in a name, something you're thinking about, a problem you're having in your company. How do I build a sales team? What should I do about marketing, hiring, recruiting, advertising, anything that pops to your mind, you search highlights, and it'll pull back every single time that that's been mentioned either in a note or a highlight of mine. So that is something I use every day. So right now, there is no app, this is just in your browser. So

Starting point is 01:18:33 you can use the browser on your computer or your phone, I leave if you I would once you log in, just leave it up in your browser. I search this thing every day multiple times a day okay so that is by far the most valuable feature this is where but like what i again i know it's the most valuable feature but what i think is like excessively special is this thing called the highlights feed and again this is this product is for think about who i who i had in mind when I wanted to make this, right? When I contacted the team at Readwise and I said, hey, both of the founders listened to the podcast. I was like, hey, we should build a product together. I want to essentially give people access and see exactly what I see.

Starting point is 01:19:21 And I want it to be a new product and I want to call it Founders Notes. And so that's how this thing came to be. And I knew already that people are going to get the most value out of already have a successful company. So that's why I say it's for them. So those people also read a ton, right? There's a high positive correlation between success, entrepreneurial success and reading. And so the highlights feed is very special, because think about all the other platforms that we're giving our attention right it's like kind of just these algorithms throwing things in our face you're seeing like random posts from you know somebody you went to high school with 25 years ago or you

Starting point is 01:19:56 know somebody angry about something else it's just like you know anything that gets engagement and the way i think about highlights feed the highlights feed feature right it looks like this is what my friend Morgan me and my friend Morgan Housel the best-selling author talked about it's a smart Twitter feed is what it looks like or a smart Facebook feed and the highlights feed is random highlights and notes right you go on it and instead of scrolling this is like if obviously the reason I said you should have a successful company because usually, you know, those people also read as well. And if you could read this thing for 10 or 15 minutes a day or whenever you want to really. Sometimes I read for a couple minutes.

Starting point is 01:20:35 I've been lost in here for hours. And what happens is like it's almost like a random. It's like history's greatest entrepreneurs, a random sampling of history's greatest entrepreneurs speaking directly to you. Like I just clicked on it. There's two quotes from Port Charlie, uh, Port Charlie Zominack, right? Then there's one from Ted Turner. Then there's one from, uh, John D Rockefeller. Then there's three in a row, uh, from Sam Zell. Then there's, uh, two from Napoleon. There's one about Balenciaga and like, it just goes on and on and on. And some of them, you know, it depends on the context of what's going on in your career. Some of them aren't going to be meaningful for you, just like when you're scrolling any other feed. But they're

Starting point is 01:21:14 really good prompts for your thinking and reminders of the lessons that we're learning on the podcast, because you can listen to every single episode. And I know a ton of people that have, but you're going to forget a lot of stuff. Our mind is meant to like forget, you know, 99% of the stuff we take in. So that's why I think repetition is the mother of learning. It's so important. I think that's what the highlights feed does. I'm sitting here scrolling while I'm talking to you. It's like, here's another great idea on David Ogilvie, for example. He took an idea from Henry Ford and he says, following Henry Ford's advice to his dealers that he should solicit by personal visitation. I started by soliciting advertisers who did not employ an agency at all.

Starting point is 01:21:48 So he's talking about the, how he started his, his agency when he was like 35 years old. And the fact is, is like, yeah, I can go and say, Hey, hire me and fire your existing agency. But I, or I should just do what Henry Ford did. And it was like, go to the people by personal visitation that don't have any. It's easier to sell somebody that doesn't have an advertising agency already, a partner, as opposed to getting them to switch to some unknown entity. And you'd be shocked at how much either you didn't know or you had forgotten.

Starting point is 01:22:19 Here's another one that's fascinating. This is the book, my friend Jimmy Sony, he's a good friend of mine now. He's the author of this book called The Founders, which is on the beginning of PayPal. And it talks about how competitive in the end of, it's really competitive at all times, but especially during the dot-com bubble, how competitive it was for engineering and like really A-plus talent and something that helped Musk out. He's just like, hey, I got a lot of my own money in this this and so there's the unexpected benefit of putting so much of your own wealth in helps with recruiting because they're like this guy has i think at the time i don't remember how

Starting point is 01:22:53 much of his musk's net worth but he had a ton i think he got like after selling zip to you know 28 million dollars what is that after taxes who knows 15 million something like that and then he's telling this guy i have 13 million i have 13 out of my 15 million dollars in this company it has to work uh so there's just these weird ideas that happen and what happens which i've heard over and over again from a ton of founders is like an idea or a comment on the podcast or reading in a book or reading founders notes will go into your brain it'll go it'll go through everything else that's particular to your company on the outside it's something unique and usually beneficial to your uh company so that's the way i think about highlights feed it's like it's very interesting and special um

Starting point is 01:23:34 i don't even want to confuse you but almost feel like it could be like a separate app which whatever maybe i'll test that personally and see if that it's just it's fascinating it's very very fascinating and then finally uh because i don't want to talk your ear off um books you can go to the book section and just go buy books so last last week i talked about you can go read all of the highlights from brad jacobs book and in brad jacobs when i was reading about brad jacobs i was really thinking a lot about danny meyer and i hadn't read Danny Meyer's autobiography, Setting the Table, for years. But it is excellent. And so then you can go, and I think there's what, 59 I said? No, 29. Sorry, 29 highlights. And so those 29 highlights, you know, probably take 10 minutes to read and really think about. And it's shocking how much you can learn, you know, just by reading 30 highlights from a book or 44 highlights from a book or 71 highlights from a book. So that's a brief overview

Starting point is 01:24:30 of how I use Founders Notes. You can sign up, invest in a subscription for what I think is the world's most valuable notebook for founders at foundersnotes.com. Their annual subscription. So every day the I'm adding more highlights every day, the product gets better. So if you think about that, now you sign up now within the next year, I'll add another 50 books and probably I don't know, 4000 more highlights, the more highlights and notes that are added, the deeper the ideas go. And I think the the context around them only get more valuable with time. So all right, that's enough for me. If you have not yet subscribed, highly recommend doing that. I think that is for sure. Subscribing to foundersnotes.com is the best way to support the podcast.

Starting point is 01:25:10 If you want to travel to Austin, Texas and hang out with me for three days, it's all inclusive. That means if you get to, you have to get yourself to Austin, but then the event is everything's included in the price. So the event, all the talks, all the lodging, all the food, everything. It is a private. I rented out this entire private venue. It is not open to the public. The only people that will be on the property will be people taking part in Founders Only.

Starting point is 01:25:39 So if that sounds interesting to you, that is foundersonly.com, foundersnotes.com. Both of those links will also be in the show notes. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you very much for listening to Founders. And I got to get going and start reading again for the next episode. I'll talk to you again soon.

Founders - #336 How To Lose A Few Billion Dollars: Samuel Insull

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.