FoundMyFitness - #061 Q&A with Dr. Jed Fahey on Sulforaphane, Moringa and Chemoprotection

Episode Date: November 17, 2020

Dr. Jed Fahey In this special two-hour Q&A episode with Dr. Jed Fahey, a world-leading expert on the science of chemoprotection and, in particular, sulforaphane, we discuss many of the listener-submitted questions from the hundreds of live event participants. In this episode, we discuss:  (00:00) Introduction (07:19) The minimum daily dose of sulforaphane  (12:04) Gauging sulforaphane content of foods is challenging (17:37) Workarounds to enhance the sulforaphane in cooked foods (23:38) How often to consume broccoli sprouts and how long their effects last (39:28) The effects of sulforaphane on glutathione production in the brain (43:12) The effects of sulforaphane on cancer (01:17:26) Alternatives to sprouts, such as supplements (and which ones Dr. Fahey recommends) (01:33:08) Safety concerns regarding sulforaphane If you're interested in learning more, you can read the full show notes here. Join over 300,000 people and get the latest distilled information  straight to your inbox weekly: https://www.foundmyfitness.com/newsletter Become a FoundMyFitness premium member to get access to exclusive episodes, emails, live Q+A's with Rhonda and more: https://www.foundmyfitness.com/crowdsponsor

Hello friends. Today's episode is the recorded two-hour Q&A I hosted with Dr. Jed Fahey on November 7, 2020. In this Q&A, we cover topics on all things broccoli sprouts and sulfurophane, including the minimum daily dose of sulfurophane that has been shown to provide health benefits, where Dr. Fahey gets his broccoli seeds from, whether adding ground mustard seed to cooked broccoli, increases sulfurophane. When to consume broccoli sprouts or sulfurophane supplements after being exposed to air pollutants. How long health benefits of sulfurophane last and how frequently they can be consumed. Whether sulfurophane helps enhance the excretion of heavy metals and pesticides.

How sulfurophane increases glutathione in the plasma and brain. Effects that persist for at least three months in a continuous consumption scenario. Sulfurifane in the context of cancer prevention versus cancer therapy. The potential benefits of sulfurophane for Alzheimer's disease. whether it is safe to get sulfurophane by just eating broccoli seeds, the best way to store sprouts, the most bioavailable way to consume maringa, what sulfurophane supplement brands that Dr. Fahey considers reliable, the evidence that strongly suggests that sulfurophane does not have a meaningful goyrogenic effect and, more importantly, has no negative effect on thyroid health,

and much more. A couple of quick things before we jump in. into this Q&A. First, Jed worked with me and my team to put together a 15-page sprouting guide that will guide you through the basic steps on how to safely grow your own broccoli sprouts at home. It is beautifully illustrated and if you want to grow your own sprouts, you need this guide. Get that at foundmyfitness.com forward slash sprouting, S-P-R-O-U-T-I-N-G. Or search Found-My Fitness Sprouting Guide. You can't miss it. Second, I do a Q&A like this every single month for premium members. Members submit questions and can join the Q&A live,

or they can also listen to my answers to questions and my responses on their private premium podcast feed. Members also get other great benefits, including the Alawquot, are new members-only podcast that curates and remixes the best of Found My Fitness. Head to foundmyfitness.com forward slash premium to learn more about that and the various other benefits. Once again, that's foundmyfitness.com forward slash premium, P-R-E-M-I-U-M, premium. Now, let's jump into the recorded Q&A with Dr. Jed Fahey.

Welcome, everyone. This is a special edition crowdcast Q&A with our guest, Dr. Jed Faheyhi, who has spent more than 20 years researching phytochemicals, and sulforaphane at Johns Hopkins. He's a friend of mine, and I am so excited to have him here today. He is a mentor as well. I have been reading his publications and following his research for many years now. And so it's such a pleasure to have him here answering questions from all you guys. He retired a few months ago and has some interesting projects he's working on,

but we can leave that for another podcast. So today he's going to answer questions that were submitted by the audience. And the questions were voted on. And so Jed chose a variety of questions that were the top voted questions, as well as questions that have come up frequently, popular questions and questions that are, you know, that he found interesting. And he rearranged the questions in kind of categories like health benefits, safety, sprouting, et cetera. So we're not going to follow the order that you see on the crowdcast question screen. So just keep that in mind. But before we jump into the questions, Jed, maybe you can spend about 60 seconds or so just sort of giving people a brief intro

on your work. And we can go from there. Good. Okay. Well, thank you, Rhonda, for having me. And I have I've known you for a little while now, and I'm glad you called me a friend. I certainly love your, found my fitness, and I wish I had more time to follow you more closely. But that's coming, because as you mentioned, I retired. The 62nd version is, you know, I was born, I know, I started out life as a plant physiologist and spent 15 years in the ag biotech industry, then came to Hopkins, and then 1993, spent 27 years there and got my doctorate while I was at Hopkins in nutritional biochemistry, working full-time, also started a company called Brasca Protection Products or BPP while I was working there with my mentor, Paul Tallulay and his son, Tony.

And then Paul and I backed away from that company so that we could do clinical trials with broccoli sprouts, which we developed. So we've done a lot of work with broccoli sprouts. In fact, broccoli spress and sulforophane have been our primary focus over the years, as well as Meringa, and a variety of other plant, you know, phytochemicals. We've looked at effects on helicobacter, pylori infection, and on and on, autism, more recently, all with collaborators, of course, because you don't do these things by yourself. I retired in June, the end of June.

I have an adjunct appointment at Hopkins still, but what I am doing is consulting now again for the company that we started, but just as a consultant, and I'm on the scientific advisory board for a couple of companies, coolly-cule that makes moringa powder and bright seed, which is developing some interesting food products. I want to spend my retirement for, of all wearing the same shirt as I have my wife looked to me this morning she said

you're wearing the same shirt you were the last two days well yeah wearing old flannel search is part of the joy of retiring to Maine but I want to spend more time trying to help put in a more accessible format some of the very technical stuff that we've been involved with and part of that is talking with your hands your constituents, Rhonda, and doing the kind of thing we're doing right now. So I hope to do more of that and more writing as time goes on. So we should, so that's the short, you know, that's the short story. And it took more than 60 seconds. I'm sorry. Awesome, Jed. So glad to have you here. So we'll jump into the questions, starting with some of the health benefits. The first question

is what is the minimum daily dose of sulfurophane that has been shown to provide health benefits? How much sulfurophane does a 200 gram serving of broccoli or broccoli sprouts contain? Yeah, so, you know, I have to preface these, my launching into the answer system of these questions by saying, yeah, you went through the extensive and wonderful questions, many of them, as did I. a number of days ago, this is a kind of question that comes up all the time. And to those of you who are non-scientists, I tend to talk all, we scientists, and certainly chemists and biochemists,

tend to talk in micromoles. So if you look at any of our papers, we talk micromoles. I will try to give you an answer that's translated into milligrams. But this is, of course, complex and something that's still in play and is still being researched by many people. So it all depends on the amount of glucoraphanin, the precursor of sulforaphane that is in broccoli or sprouts.

I'm going to avoid a long diatribe on glucoraphanin and myrosinase and sulforaphane, because I have the feeling that if you've listened to Rhonda at all or gone to our podcast, the podcast that she and I did together or some of her subsequent podcasts. Most people know about the fact that glucoraphidin is a precursor found in the plants. Myrosinase is an enzyme found in the plants and in your body, your microbiome. And they react and they form sulforaphane. I think that's so interesting that we have the enzyme in our gut, meaning we are meant to get the precursor to convert it into sulfurophane.

We contain the enzyme in our gut. I just love that. Anyways, go ahead. So absolutely, all of us do. And I mean that all, however many hundred of you there are in this call, all have myrosanase containing bacteria in your gut unless you've just blasted yourself with antibiotics and had an enema and just cleaned out your intestinal system, then maybe you don't have any And we've done these sorts of experiments, actually, with real people.

So there are two ways of doing this, of hydrolyzing the glucoraphon that's present in broccoli. One is when you chew it, you release the enzyme from the broccoli tissue or broccoli sprouts or broccoli seeds. And the second way is from your microbiome. And if you take supplements, you're either getting just glucoraffin or there are now supplements with a combination of glucose. or aphanine and myrosanase, and there are very few, if any, good ones with just sulfurapine, and we'll get to that later, I'm sure we have to. So the question was about the dose. And if you're, the best advice that we can give, that I can give now is that all the clinical

studies seem to be pointing towards a dose of something between about 50 and 100 micromoles of sulfurophane a day. I discussed that a little bit in the sprouting PDF that Rhonda has just put out. But the question that was originally posted talks about a 200 gram. So let's start with the question, a 200 gram serving of broccoli. That's a pretty lot for most people, I think. That's a very healthy serving of broccoli, market stage broccoli. However, for broccoli sprouts, that's a huge serving.

Most people that I'm aware of, including myself, would not enjoy cramming down 200 grams of broccoli sprouts. So I'll just base a ballpark estimation on 100 grams of either broccoli or sprouts. And based on the amount of glucoraphon that's in them and our knowledge of conversion and yield, you might get about anywhere between four milligrams of glucoraphon to 100, 150 from 100 grams of broccoli, and that would yield about anywhere from about half a milligram to something like 18 milligrams of sulforaphane. That's a broccoli.

Why is there a huge range? There's a huge range because, A, all of the, broccoli is different. It's different based on the way it's treated in the store, the way it's grown, the genetics of the broccoli. And secondly, all of you are different, and your gut microbiomes are going to yield different amounts of sulforaphane. So there's a huge range. And with broccoli sprouts, 100 grams would give you somewhere between, I don't know, about 5 milligrams and 3, 350, sorry, between about five or six milligrams and about 60 milligrams of sulforaphane. So there's just rough, rough approximations.

Cooking destroys myrosanase. So if you're cooking broccoli or broccoli sprouts, then you're just counting on the bacteria in your gut. I mentioned the person-to-person variation. There's no way, unfortunately, to know if you're a good converter. there's no way to know how much sulforaphane or glucoraphon is in broccoli or broccoli sprouts because you have to get them tested in a lab. And there are no commercial labs that do these tests routinely.

So this is still a problem. And I mentioned this in the PDF that Rhonda's posted. But unfortunately, you as a consumer, even if you spend, say, $10 on broccoli seed, and sprout them yourself, it would cost you $150 to send one sample of those broccoli seeds out to a commercial lab to get them tested to see if they're high glucoraphatein or not. So as I don't make the rules, I just abide by them or try to. But so unfortunately, as it stands now, it's very difficult to know what you're getting. So we just have to work.

We just have to talk in terms of rough averages. And when Paul Talley and I did our first publication on broccoli sprouts, you know, our point was that a serving of, say, something like a couple of ounces, 60 grams or so of broccoli sprouts gave you as much glucoraphinin as, you know, a quarter of a pound or a half a pound of market-stage broccoli. And so these are all quantitative, one final word, and just that the quantity of glucoraphidin and so forthin you get from broccoli sprouts from a couple of ounces, we think is a reasonable amount to put you in a zone where you're getting some protective effect.

And so it's this, roughly this level that most of the clinical studies have targeted, because God forbid your clinical studies should be positive and work, you want to be able to translate that to something people can eat. I think the answers to all the rest of my questions will be shorter, Rhonda. And you've been gracious not to jump in and interrupt, but I hope that sort of addressed the question. Well, one of the questions that popped up, as you were talking about variation in the glucoraffinin content and broccoli seeds,

do you have a preferred seed vendor for broccoli sprout seeds? Yeah, that's a good question. So I don't buy broccoli seeds myself really anymore. So when we were doing experiments in the lab, we, for a long time, bought them from Johnny's select seeds in Albion, Maine. And they were a source of organic broccoli seeds. And we had tested some, when Paul Tallulay first hired me in 1993, he had gotten some seeds from them. And we tested them, and they were high in glucoraphutinin. We worked with, I worked with a plant, a broccoli breeder who was a USDA scientist for many years.

And we did a variety of crossing and we're looking at the potency of broccoli genotypes. And yeah, we developed some germplasm that was good, that was high in glucorapentin. More importantly, I guess I should say that the company that we founded does breed and make their own broccoli seeds. And this is obviously a big venture, and they test their seeds all the time. So the very practical answer is, when I want broccoli seeds,

I ask them for some freebies, and they give them to me, and I've grown my sprouts that way. But it's very, they don't sell broccoli seeds. And there are, you know, many companies now that sell seeds for sprouting, but I don't,

I'm not aware of any of them that certify the level of glucoraphidin in those seeds. So again, it's difficult for the consumer to know what they're getting. And I hope that we get to a place very soon where the expectation is driven by consumers maybe that a company that's going to sell seeds per sprouting characterizes the glucoraphon level. That would be easy for them to do. It would cost them $100, $200 to do the test. Right. They do it for a fish oil when they characterize the EPA and DHA content. One more related chat question, Stephanie was asking, what about adding ground mustard seed to cooked broccoli or a cooked cruciferous vegetable like Brussels sprouts, for example? Is there any effect on that increasing the bioability of sulfurophane? And if so, you know, can you explain why?

Yeah. Yeah. So look, broccoli. So you're talking about it. So you're talking about it. So you're talking about it. I'm sorry, I missed the first part of the question is with broccoli sprouts, right? The first part of the question was just cooked broccoli and, you know, which, which because as you mentioned, cooking it kills the enzyme myrosinase. And so you're essentially not getting much sulfurophane unless you have, depending on your gut bacteria that have the enzyme myrosinase. Adding mustard seed powder. Yes.

So short answer is yes, that should facilitate the more rapid conversion of glucoraphid in that cooked broccoli to sulfurophane. So in the event that you are a low converter, and if you wait for it to, sorry, we don't have the full body here, but if you wait to it to go all the way down to your large intestine, to your small and large intestines, and wait for those bacteria to act,

you know, our best knowledge of the range of conversion efficiencies that you as a person might do, ranges from a few percent of what you ingest to up to maybe about 60 or 70 percent. And you don't know unless you test your urine. And that changes from day to day. It changes from, you know, week to week, month to month. So, yes, if you want to do the conversion before you or as you're eating it, ground mustard seed,

Dikon, Japanese radish is good. Meringa actually has a lot of marasinates. Many cruciferous vegetables do, but you then sort of run into taste issues. And to me, a lot of it all comes down to taste. You know, when we're talking about what we eat, what we supplement with. So mustard seed has a very characteristic,

harsh, pungent taste, right? so does wasabi and horseradish, which are also really good sources of myrosanase. But, you know, do you want to add that to broccoli cheese soup? And then you're instead having, you know, broccoli horseradish soup. I like I like mustard seed on my cooked broccoli with butter. The study Stephanie is probably referring to is one I shared a couple of years ago, where it was a very small study about 12, 12 people were given a gram of mustard seed. put on top of their,

I don't remember if they put on top of their broccoli, if they were just given the gram, and then they ate the broccoli. Either way, they increased the sulfurophane by like 45%. So we can move on to the next question, though. Okay, that's a reasonable way to deal with cooked cruciferous vegetables. Rhonda, I'd like to interrupt and actually, well, I'm interrupting myself, right?

So I'd like to say, I saw a question a couple of days ago on the site from Lucy, and she said something the effect of does broccoli rob contain sulforaphane? And Lucy, that's a great question if you're there today. And the answer is no, it doesn't. And broccoli rob is actually related to broccoli, but interestingly, it's not as closely related even as cauliflower or. cabbage are to broccoli. And broccoli Robb does not have a significant amount of glucoraphne or sulforaphane. But this is an opportunity for me to stamp my foot down and say, look, a lot of people in the lay public especially are under the impression that all cruciferous vegetables have sulforaphane or glucoraphene. They do not. So if you eat any cruciferous vegetables, you're getting

isothiocyanates, which are all closely related to each other. They're all closely related to sulforaphane. But for example, cabbage has essentially none. It's got other isothiocyanides that are good for you, many of them. cauliflower has essentially none. Cale doesn't have glucoraphonin to any great extent, except, as I recall, there's one variety red Russian kale that does have a substantial amount. So be careful thinking that all, well, all cruciferous vegetables are good for you. I think that's fair to say, but be careful assuming that all cruciferous vegetables contain sulforaphane because they don't. That's a really important point. Is there a database or a reference that we can go to to see what cruciferate vegetables do you have glucoraphene, the precursor to sulfur to sulforaphane,

and what levels they contain? Teresa Johnson and I, a former student and a friend of both of ours, wrote an encyclopedia chapter on glucosinolates, and I believe we talk about it in that. Certainly there are a number of references that I can give you, which reminds me, Rhonda, you know, you and I both are sort of famous for doing deep, dives into the literature. And I'm happy to share with you offline later, any references that might be helpful to your listeners. And then I know you have places to post them in ways to get them out

to listeners. Yeah, that would be great to get that reference. I'll talk to Teresa as well. Yeah. All right. Excellent. Good. The next question was, if I can't consume broccoli sprouts daily, how beneficial is it to consume them only after exposure to heavy air pollutants? As a firefighter, I am exposed to a lot of carcinogens during a fire, and I'm wondering if it's beneficial to only take them post-fire calls and for how many days? Yeah, another great question. And to the firefighter that asked that, thank you for your service. It's been a rough year for firefighters out west, that's for sure.

So my best guess is that taking them regularly or taking a supplement in order to prime your system and get your antioxidant and detoxication system ready for the regular assaults that you're laying on on your body, it would probably be wise. I think this is a case where you should remember that you, if we're talking about carcinogens or toxins or oxidant, chemicals, you never really know when you're being attacked by those vicious chemicals. And I'm actually not exaggerating. I mean, there are a lot of nasty chemicals in smoke, certainly from home fires and even from wildfires. So there's, you know, if you look at the analogy to wearing seatbelts, you know, you wear a seat belt, not because you plan on getting in an accident, but it's prophylactic. And I think you could make a similar argument if you know you're regularly blasting your

lungs and your body with the components of smoke, you could make an argument that priming your system to get that response maximally geared up would be a good thing. One thing we do know from our work in China with study of air pollution and the effects of sulfhorophan on that is that you don't fatigue, and this is fortunate, but you don't fatigue the biochemical response system. So we gave, for 12 weeks, we gave daily glucoraphidin and sulfurophan and monitored the upregulation of this protective response, and did not really see any fatiguing of the response of that system. So short answer then is to the firefighter is, yeah, I think taking a supplement regularly would be, obviously you're not going to make broccoli

sprouts when you're out doing fire calls. So probably supplements in your case would be a good, you know, good thing. I'm not a physician. I'm not prescribing them to you, but that's the way I feel about it, yeah. Jed, if I just could comment as well, your 12-week study was extremely relevant to not only firefighters, but, you know, people, particularly on the West Coast in California and, you know, Oregon, you know, people that are being exposed to these wildfires that are breathing in acrolean, which is heavily in smoke and benzene. But, you know, and your study showed that within 24 hours, benzene excretion was excreted by 60%. And acrolean study was increased, or acrolean excretion was increased by 20, about 23%. And so I guess also the question is, let's say, you know, the firefighter or whoever isn't going to take it daily. But, you know, even within a few days of knowing they're going on call or whatever, do you think that would even be beneficial? beneficial? Because I mean, it literally within 24 hours your study in China. Yeah, yeah, so I do. I mean, these, obviously there's some time lag between the time you ingest glucoraphidin or sulfoporapine

and the time the enzymes are upregulated or respond. It's quite short, though, and, you know, even after a couple of hours, some of those enzymes are cranking up. So the answer to your question is yes. And, you know, The main sort of situation where I think you might almost have to have it on board before an event is some of the neuronal injury models. Like when we talk about traumatic brain injury and spinal cord injury, there is an absolutely pronounced effect of sulforaphane that we have seen in a variety of studies. We and others. When I say we, I always mean we and other people or maybe I wasn't even involved in that. that study in this case. But we see in effect, obviously if you have that sort of injury and you're looking for the rapid response of sulforaphane, it would be ideal to have had it

on board your body beforehand. But one of the things that appears evident is that with neuronal injury, even getting it right after the injury may have some value. So with a fire, the fire analogy or the fire situation, absolutely, we showed that the response was upregulated quickly and it was maintained. And as you say, detoxication of two out of the three major pollutants that we looked at happened to a substantial degree. And I should mention this was work that my colleague, Tom Kensler, started a long time ago in China. and we joined in that work in the, I guess, in about 2001. And so we've been involved with it for many years now.

And the final studies there are going to be published soon, I hope. Amazing, just amazing work. I love those studies. And the fact that the 12 weeks, there was no exhausting of the upregulation of these important detoxication enzymes. That's really profound that they were maintained within that whole 12 week. It wasn't like it was a short-term effect that went away. Also, it's, as we're going to discuss probably in a couple of minutes about a lot of the preclinical studies on the effects of sulfuricine in Alzheimer's disease, there's been a just onslaught of new research that has shown air pollution is contributing to neurodegenerative diseases, start. in early life. So there was a study in Mexico City where air pollution is terrible. And children,

so they've been doing post-mortem, you know, studies looking in the brain of, unfortunately, infants and children and young adolescents that have died for whatever reason. And they have amyloid beta plaques in their brain as early as infancy and other, you know, pathological changes in the brain going on early, early in life, which is really unfortunate. So I think that the possibility of something like marynga or sulfurophane or blocker sprouts, you know, to help with excreting these, you know, toxic compounds and even in other potential ways improving brain health is really exciting. So with that, I'll go on to the next question, which was, how long do the health benefits of broccoli sprouts last? Would consuming them every day be better than every other day or once a week? This is an easy question for me to answer, but it's, as with most everything else, it's shades of gray. It's not black and white. We think that consumption every two or three days is fine because what you're doing is you're not,

it's not like vitamin C where you're having a direct antioxidant effect and you use up the vitamin C and it's gone. What you're doing is you're cranking up protective enzymes and they last. Enzymes are proteins and, you know, they do work in the body. body and eventually they wear out and break down and get catabolized and turned into their component amino acids and then they get remade. We know that the elevation of these enzymes last for at least hours and certainly in most cases days, a few days probably. Some benefits might be short-lived. You know, if when you talk about habits though, people's habits, I think especially with diet and with supplements, if you're taking supplements, it's better to just do it daily. If you're in the

habit of eating broccoli sprouts, it's easier to say, okay, you know, I eat them today and I don't eat them tomorrow because I'm going to get bored eating the same thing every day. But yeah, every couple of days should be fine, I think, two or three days. I know that the animal studies have shown that the NRF2 protective pathways activated for at least two days. Have you looked at any clinical samples, human human samples? Is it to see if it's similar? Yeah. So you were referring to clinical studies when you were referring to hours to days? I'm referring to both, but I mean, we've looked in clinical studies also. I mean, part of the problem with clinical studies is that you have to pick some times,

unless you have someone in the hospital, in a hospital or in an inpatient setting, have an indwelling catheter of some kind in them and are constantly taking blood or having them deliver their urine to you, all of it for days on end, which most people don't like to do. They're very difficult studies to do.

So when we do clinical studies in an effort to, you know, sort of have moderate inconvenience for the subject and reduce the cost of it to a manageable level, we wind up picking times to take blood and to look at elevation of those enzymes.

And frequently, it's a day after dosing. And so, you know, we know that a day after taking sulfurophane, we see these enzymes elevated. And also, I can't remember two or three days has been a time point that we've looked at specifically, but others have, I think, in the clinic. Cool.

There's someone asking in the chat, Krista Bluff, is there any research around toxic metals and increased detoxification with sulfurophane? So we mentioned some of these carcinogens, but has there been any evidence on metals? there's been some i'm i'm not i mean i'd have to go and dig those dig those papers out for you christa um because i'm not i'm not uh intimately familiar with them and we we haven't we didn't do them um but since you mentioned so the answer is yes and uh i'll try to find you those those references um but that brings up the question of pesticides and other toxins you know we we've talked about air pollutants

And we've talked about a lot of disease states and protection against cancer and so on and so forth. But others, a number of years ago, especially, have looked at things like Paracquot toxicity. And there are a number of other pesticides. I can't at the moment remember which ones they are. Rotinone. I think is one. Yeah. People have looked at the ability of sulforaphane to detoxify them or to enhance the elimination.

of them. So, and certainly we've done my colleague, Tom Kensler, and that whole team has, I mean, they started out in these China studies looking at aflatoxin, which is different than metals and it's different than pesticides, but it is a potent toxin and carcinogen that is actually present in peanuts and corn in the part of China where we were working. And clearly, and this is sort of a model for the metal and the pesticide detoxication. Clearly, afatoxin is converted to a derivative bound to compounds, which allow it to be more readily excreted in the urine. So this is something that is,

this is what we call detoxication or detoxification. And indeed, it's pretty widespread. Because so this is probably involved in a subsequent question, but a lot of this is because of the upregulation of glutathione. Glutothion is the body's most predominant detoxification mechanism. It's present at very high levels in things like the macula of the eye, the back of the eye, in the retina. And it is, it's a tripeptide, meaning it's made up of only three amino acids, and it is a very potent

antioxidant that is endogenous. It's part of your body. But what sulforophane does is it cranks up the enzymes that are responsible for synthesizing or resynthesizing glutathione. And so it makes more glutathione available. And once glutathione is sacrificed and oxidized, it remakes. It remakes it. And so that's, I mean, it's a long way, all my questions, all my answers are long ways of answering simple questions, I guess, but that's a way of saying that's sort of where cell forphane comes into that detoxification pathway, one of many ways, but it's probably one of the most important ways. Yeah, we are going to talk a little bit more about glutathione on another question, but I just want to ask you, is that, specifically,

there has been clinical studies that it increases glutathione in the plasma and in the brain. I don't remember how far out those clinical studies went. But as you were saying previously with the air pollution studies that you had been collaborated with in your colleagues in China, the activation of the NRF2 system did not stop as long as you were continually taking the broccoli sprout extract. Right. So the glutathial levels would keep going up if you were, it's not someone. that just goes away over time. Right.

Well, they won't keep going up to, you know, forever. I mean, they'll keep being replenished. Right, exactly. Yeah. So if you insult your body with a toxin that is detoxified by glutathione, yes, there'll be a dip in glutathione levels. What actually happens is the reduced form of glutasione turns into the oxidized form. And then the reduced form, glutathione is regenerated.

So that cycling happens more efficiently, and indeed the levels, overall levels of glutathione are somewhat elevated. All right. So there's a... I'm glad you're reading questions as they come in because I can't. Maybe I'm going to say, I'm going to, there's a cancer question, but I'm going to sort of rearrange these two because the next question is a glutathione related question, and then we'll kind of go back to the cancer one if that's okay.

So the next related question was submitted, says on the Kevin Rose podcast, Rhonda Patrick mentioned that broccoli sprouts increased the production of glutathione in the brain. So I was wondering what your thoughts are on continuous supplementation, if taken long term, would the brain stop producing it naturally? So for people, for reference that aren't familiar, the clinical study that I referred to on Kevin's podcast, the Kevin Rose Show, was in 2018, published in 2018, and they found that about 17.7 milligrams of sulfurophane per day for one week increased. blood glutathione levels and this correlated with an increased glutathione in certain brain regions. And these were unhealthy people. So, you know, as Jed mentioned, glutathione is one of the body's major antioxidant system. So I guess you kind of answered that already, but maybe you want to, if there's any concluding thoughts you want to give. Yeah, yeah. So I kind of did answer that

just now. And actually, I think I was a co-author of that study. You're referring to if it's the one by Tom Sedleck and a cure cell. You were. That's right. Shame on me. No, no, no. That's okay. They did the heavy work on the study. I didn't. But, but that, so indeed, with healthy people, they showed what you said. And so I think there's, the brain won't stop producing glutathione naturally. There's no question about that. And glutathione production. What about during age, the aging process? It declines naturally with age, and in fact, starting as early as in your 20s.

So, Rhonda, you're in the downhill slope already. I'm way down. I'm way down. So, you know, supplementing with sulfurapane, I think, apparently helps to restore glutocyan back to normal or young, healthy levels. And I think some animal studies by that same group have shown that. In the brain. I mean, how freaking cool is that? I mean, I've seen studies.

I was just, it was a small clinical study, you know, but I was just blown away that you guys showed that it increased levels in the brain. So I think it is pretty freaking cool. And I think also the study that you're referring to or a related study by Sedlack and Sawa and others in radiology at Hopkins showed that they also showed in people they were able to show. to localize that enhanced ludothion by functional MRI. Yeah. So, I mean, the imaging just as sort of, it's not icing on the cake. It's the future. And I mean, I think we're going to see, I hope we're going to see a lot more functional MRI type

studies where people say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see this and that in the blood. I see this and that in the urine. you know, I see conversion, I see these, whether it's drugs or phytochemicals, I see these effects in blood, but we don't really care that much about blood except as an index or a marker. What we care about is, is it doing something in the brain or the muscles or, you know, whatever. And so these now with higher resolution MRI, people are able to show these changes. And it's pretty cool.

If I was reborn and rebranded as a scientist, I'd want to be a microbiome specialist, but I'm way past that. But I think I'd also want to be a functional MRI person because that's going to be very cool as we go forward. All right. Let's move on to the next question, which was related to cancer? The question was, are there any studies that you know of that would suggest broccoli sprouts would be beneficial for a person who has already been diagnosed with cancer? If so, which cancers? Yeah. So I've got to repeat the admonition caution here.

I'm not a physician. I'm not your physician and I don't give medical advice. I would, in that instance, I would certainly eat a vegetable-based diet, a whole food, vegetable-based diet. There are certainly clinical studies suggesting that there may be cancer therapeutic effects. But those studies are all in progress. And I don't think there's, there is not scientific consensus that sulforaphane is a cancer therapy or therapeutic, certainly. So it would be responsible to suggest that.

My bias is that I certainly think that it is valuable in a cancer preventive lifestyle, trying to prevent cancers from starting. So if you're diagnosed with cancer, especially. if it's metastasized, it may actually not be wise to take sulforaphane or to supplement or to go heavy on broccoli. We just, honestly, we just don't know enough. We do know that upregulating NRF2 protects cells. And when you think about it, metastasized cancers, what's happening there? Those cells are growing faster than the rest of the cells around them, the rest of the rest of the body for that matter if you're an adult. They're growing fast. They're producing the products of respiration and oxidation. Their mitochondria are cranking away. So if you support

their mitochondria and enhance their ability to detoxify things, including perhaps cancer drugs, this may be a slippery slope. We just don't know enough. And there are some animal model studies in which NRF2 is genetically upregulated or knocked out. And I think those studies, the results of those studies suggest that caution is advised in cases where people have been diagnosed with cancer. Hopefully a lot more to come on that from studies that are underway and in progress in various parts of the world. And just to add on as a comment, you know, speaking to prevention,

I know there's been, there's some of the pre-clinical evidence that really excited me was, there was a rat study, and I forget the group that published a study, but the rats were given sulfurophane. They were given it before they were given a chemical that causes bladder cancer. And the other group of rats were just given the chemical that causes bladder cancer. And the rats that were given the dose of the sulfurophane, did not develop bladder cancer. And if they did, the tumors were much, much smaller in size.

So, again, preventative, you know, just more evidence that the preventative approach seems to be stronger. There's also been the clinical evidence. It seems as though, and you know better about this, Jed, about, you know, the tissues that sulforaphane may accumulate in more, you know, the bladder, prostate, breast versus other tissues. or lungs. You know, I don't even know if we know all the differences. But the prostate seems to be one that, that at least clinically there's been a few studies showing that sulfurophane ranging in dose, the higher the dose, the more robust the effect. So 60 milligrams of sulfurane a day was shown to slow the biomarker prostate specific antigen or PSA, which people with, you know, early prostate cancer, you know, risk of it or whatever, have. And,

So slowing that by 86% is certainly, you know, a good thing. Yeah. So as a follow up, shame on you. I think that first bladder cancer study you were talking about is also one that I was involved. Yeah. Beginning of the call, I said I've been following your work because you're every study. So pretty much every study that I cite almost, Jed Fahey, Dr. Jed Fahey is an author on. So it's just, you're so prolific.

I can't keep track of all your publications, Jed. Mostly a minor player. So in this case, a minor player, a group in New Zealand, Rex Monday, and an old, old colleague, actually, the guy who with Paul Tal, I put sulfurovane on the map, Yushin Zhang, and I did this, did one of the rat studies. I think maybe the one you're talking about with bladder cancer. And absolutely, this was benzylysis ionate, as I recall, that we used to or, or, or. syne allolysothiocyanate, which come from radish or diacon or mustard seed. So it's worth dwelling on this. When you think about what happens with sulfurophane, which most of you, I don't know,

most of you don't, I do probably too much to my detriment. But what happened? You ingest it. You take it in. The body sees it. Your cells of your body see it. they actually take it in very rapidly. They conjugate it with glutathione and they spit it back out.

Then where does it go? It goes from the blood to the urine. Then where does the urine go? Unless you're on a Foley catheter and most of us that are reasonably healthy aren't, although I've had that fun experience before. So your bladder stores urine up. What's in that urine? Sulforaphane and its conjugates.

Well, what is bladder cancer? Bladder cancer is the epithelial cells of the bladder, most of them, the tissue lining that bladder, mutation forming and ultimately a tumor developing. So bladder cancer, I still think, is the ultimate target for isothio cyanates because you're bathing that tissue in these protective compounds essentially all the time. You know, you empty your bladder and immediately it starts filling back up. again. Certainly the prostate cancer is another example where mechanistically, or I should say, evidentially, there's evidence. The cause and effect is a little harder to see, but the bladder

cancer model is just beautiful. Rhonda, who's looking over your shoulder? Oh. Sorry, it's an unfair question because I know you're not. I know you're not in your normal kitchen spot. I'm not. So that was a great digression, Jed. Thank you so much. And thank you for all your contributions.

Let's move on to the next question in this section, which is, what are your thoughts, if any, on the potential benefits of sulfurophane or even other isothiocyanate activators of NRF2 for Alzheimer's disease? there's been just repeating pre-clinical evidence that amyloid beta, you know, is decreased and that, you know, isysothiocyanates and sulfurophane seem to have a positive effect on Alzheimer's disease. Yeah. So this is a case where I need to give Dr. Patrick's listeners a data dump of papers. There's a huge amount of literature. that would be fun to post links to from animal models and cell culture work. Let me start, actually, I just found this or I just rediscovered this morning. Let me start by citing a clinical study and then go back to some of the animal study work.

So as all of you know, animals, mostly rats and mice are used to, despair having to do some of these experiments on people. And so what usually happens, what frequently happens, maybe COVID-19 is going to be an exception. But what frequently happened is you have cell culture work, you have or in vitro work where you add chemicals to cultured human cells or animal cells in a petri plate. You get positive effect or not. then you move to trials where you like it or not sacrifice mice to the cause of science. And if you're lucky enough and there's a rodent model of a disease, you get some results. And then maybe you'll do a preclinical study to verify safety.

And then you'll go to a full-fledged clinical study to look at efficacy. So a lot of animal studies, I'll get back to a few citations. but there is one now, there's one posted clinical trial in China in Zayshang University, and it will be looking at 160 subjects with early Alzheimer's, and they're going to be giving sulforaphane. It was posted for start date of sometime in May of 2020. I doubt that's happened because of COVID. Most clinical trials are on pause.

I do want to make, so you can find this on clinical trials.gov. That's a website that categorizes all of the U.S. approved clinical trials and many around the world. You can find it and read about it yourself. If you do that, be careful because, you know, I think this may well be a good and interesting study, but when you look at what they're giving, they're giving dietary supplement. sulforaphane, and they say they're giving 2,550 milligrams once a day, and half of the people are getting placebo. I won't go into the math, but that amount is enough to kill a horse.

And so that's between 10 and 100, closer to 100 times what I would recommend giving to a person. So my only guess is that they're talking about the weight 2.5 grams or 2,500 milligrams of a supplement tablet. And there's no information on this website that lets us know what they're actually giving patients or how much sulfurophane they'll actually be getting. But it may well be a very interesting study. So we should keep our eyes on it. But to go back to the animal work,

with a former doctoral student, Anita Pangewani, we did a review a couple of years ago looking at actually all of the neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and Huntington's and the neurodevelopmental diseases like autism and looking at the evidence for sulforaphane and it's extensive. and, you know, things like H-DAQ inhibition, histone diacetylase, sorry, inhibition, enhancement of BDNF, brain-derived neurotropic factor, certainly reduction in amyloid beta, and the list really goes on and on the things that other people have done. I have not been directly involved in that. Then there are a couple of reviews from even more recently from last year, which I'll send to Rhonda, you know, talking about, for example,

sulforaphane protecting cultured neural cells from the toxicity of methylglyoxol, which is a precursor of AGEs or advanced glycation end products, that are very clearly associated with Alzheimer's disease. Models that show reduced neuronal cell death due to amyloid beta exposure due to activation of peroxosomes. These are things that help detoxify. So they're a very, very long list, and just the reviews, the review articles have pages and pages of evidence. So I will share some of that with Rhonda, but it's very encouraging.

Ten years ago, we were, Paul Talley and I were invited to work with a group in the Netherlands. That was going to be a big multi-center Alzheimer's prevention trial using sulfurophane. Ten years ago. Wow. 2011. It was a multi-million dollar trial. Funding never had, I don't know, funding started and stopped, but it never actually happened. And I'm not aware of other Western follow-up studies. As I say, I just found this study in China that is being conducted, I should say, by some researchers who have done some good animal model work and published a bit before, a lot before.

So I have high hopes for the China study, but. We'll see. I'm definitely going to continue following that literature as well. I mean, I just keep seeing animal study after animal studies showing, you know, a positive effect on sulfurophane with sulfurophane on Alzheimer's disease. So let's move on to the next section, the sprouting logistics. The question is, many people ask this question in one form another. Can you clarify whether it's necessary to sprout broccoli seeds or if you can get sulfurophane

by just blending and eating the seeds? You mentioned in the last episode with Dr. Fahey that you would try to try this. I'm curious why anyone would bother sprouting them if eating chopped up seeds works just as well. Yeah. It's a great question, and I noticed that question echoed a lot in those that have been sent in by listeners. You know, it's correct. You could get, you would get the highest levels of glucore raffin from just eating broccoli seeds. I think there's also a possibility of getting an overload of erucic acid, although people do supplement with omega-9 fatty acids, which is what errusic acid is.

But there's certainly, we could have a whole, maybe we should have a whole discussion of erucic acid. So you would get a lot of that. So broccoli seeds are about a third fat or oils, and they're very rich in arucic acid. Secondly, they taste awful. Some may disagree. Some people may be less sensitive to them, but if you just grind up broccoli seeds and eat them, they don't taste very good.

And in fact, when Paul Talley and I did our first publication on broccoli sprouts, we very consciously, I mean, we knew that it was broccoli seeds, which had the very highest levels of glucoraphate, and they declined as you sprouted those seeds on a fresh weight basis until they plateaued for a couple of weeks very low, and then they started to climb again when the broccoli plant started to make flowers and seeds. And we very consciously decided to try to promote broccoli sprouts, first of all, because we knew that nobody ate broccoli seeds or sprouts at that time. Second of all, because broccoli sprouts were green,

and at least some people like the taste of sprouts and eat them regularly, not very many. But I don't know of any culture or group or reports of people that eat broccoli seeds regularly, and I know there are no clinical trials on the use of them. That said, the broccoli supplements, sulfurophane-rich or glucoraphane-rich-rich supplements are generally made. I know that Braska Protection Products makes theirs from seeds. But when you think about that, you boil seeds, you leave the fat fraction behind, and you just get the water-soluble glucoraffin and out, and then they dry it down in various ways.

And you have a very glucoraffin-rich supplement that doesn't have any fat in it. So, I don't know, short answer. Sure, you could eat broccoli seeds. You'd have to be careful of how much you ate and careful you didn't get too much errusic acid. Is arousic acid toxic? I mean, is it something that can have negative health effects? You know, I'm really not at all an expert on erucic acid,

but certainly there, it's been shown, I mean, I believe Lorenzo's oil is very rich in that. It's present in rapeseed oil. which certainly people aid for many years. Now they eat canola oil, which has had the erratic acid removed. I mean, it's been associated with cardiac toxicity in some animal studies, but I think the jury is sort of is still out

on the effects in humans. You know, can you, I think there's a chance you could get too much if you really just start. eating broccoli seeds. And I think sooner or later, there'll be more studies done with them. If you,

there was a question earlier, there was a question on the, on your list of questions, that actually itemized, I'm looking at that, I'm reading that now, that actually itemized the levels of arousic acid

in broccoli seeds, sprouts, or florets, sprouts, and seeds. And they said, that the levels are 0.8, 320, and 12,000 milligrams per 100 grams, respectively. This is one of your listeners. I didn't, sorry, I didn't catch two.

So if you use those numbers as a guideline, they, again, your listener suggests that you would get a lot more errusic acid than is in the estimated, or then is in the consumption guidelines. And so you'd exceed the calculated exposure limit for erucic acid. So I didn't dig into that and research your listeners' facts, but I'm assuming that they're correct. And yeah, I think you might get too much. Seems like the safe thing to do, at least in my opinion, would be to sprout. And because there's just more, there's been more evidence. And it seems like it could be easy to take the wrong dose if you're grinding up seeds.

And so. Yeah. To sprout or supplement. I mean, supplementing, supplementing you have the added advantage of, you know, again. A known quantity. In the best of possible worlds. Yeah. You'll get a known quantity.

And with lousy supplements, you get less than, you'll get less. and you'll get less than that quantity that they say they have. Because there are a lot of snake oil salesmen selling crappy products out there. Yeah. And we'll get to that question in a minute. So the next question is broccoli sprouts still the best way to get sulfurane. How to maximize production in the sprouts. Freeze them, steep them both, let them sit after blending to allow my arosinase to react with the glucoraphinin?

Yeah. So if you're home sprouting and you know what the glucoraphrenin can, content of your seeds are, that's great. But I've already warned you, you probably won't be able to know what the content is. It's very difficult to know. So if you're blending them up, you want to do that just before consuming them. You can't blend up a concoction once a week and then put in the refrigerator and go in for a few gulps every now and then throughout the week.

Excuse me. If you freeze them, that's fine. You can blend them and freeze them and then eat them immediately, eat that blend date immediately after thawing. That's fine. If you're intent on- Wait, wait, would you freeze the sprouts and then blend them immediately after and then consume them? Honestly, you could do either. Okay.

The myrosanase will stay active and start. It won't be very active in the freezer, probably inactive, but it'll start working again when you saw, when you saw that paste or whatever, whatever, you know, the concoction. So, you know, if you're intent on getting a specific, if you want to eat healthy and get some sulfurophane, then I think eating broccoli sprouts or smoothies made from them

or, you know, we've talked about some of the modes of delivery is great. If you want to get a known dose of sulforaphane, then probably your best to go to a high-quality supplement. But, and then there's the question of commercially grown sprouts, which we maybe can get into in another sort of, this has to do with cleanliness or sanitation of sprouts. but so, you know, there's, I think there's more chance of holding manufacturers accountable if you're taking a supplement or there will be in the future, hopefully. If you're just, if you're buying seeds and making your own sprouts, unless you get them tested for glucoraphid in content, you're really not going to know. You're not going to know how active the myrosanase might be in those sprouts either.

That said, I'm not trying to discourage anybody from doing it at all. I think it's a great idea. It's cost effective as well, for sure. Some people can't afford supplements. It's very cost effective. And if I need to give a shout out to my new friend Doug Evans, who has this book that he just wrote and it's being translated in multiple languages. And it's excellent. It's called the Sprout book, I think. Got him blanking on the name of his book. But he, you know, he advocates sprouts from a nutritional perspective. And he does, I think he has a chapter that talks about our work and that of others showing medicinal or preventive qualities of broccoli sprouts.

He was very generous talking about our work. But his bottom line is it's cheap, it's effective, it's highly nutritious. You get all the fiber, you know, you get the vegetable fiber if you eat the sprouts, which you don't get with supplements. And, you know, you get vitamins and you get minerals and blah, blah, blah. But he makes a very good case, I think, for – and I think he – not to be disrespectful, but I think he lives on sprouts. I don't know if he eats anything but sprouts. So – but he has some good – he has some good methodology,

and he talks about other kinds of sprouts, whereas in the guide that I help put together for you, Rhonda, we just talked about broccoli sprouts. So, yeah. A sort of related question is people are sort of asking about the taste of broccoli sprouts. For example, you know, if you do blend the sprouts together and drink it, as I have done in the past, it's really not very pleasant tasting. I mean, it's got like a spicy taste. I like spicy. So it's kind of got that wasabi kick.

But not a lot of people like that. And there are some parents that are trying to. to give sulfurophan or broccoli sprouts in some form another to their children, an autistic children, who seem to be very picky eaters most of the time. Is there any recommendations for like making it better tasting in a smoothie? Something that's not going to affect the bioavailability of sulfurophan. Yeah. So, yeah, I think there are.

And I think they come from some of our clinical studies where we had to camouflage. the taste or, you know, we had to incorporate broccoli sprouts into something that was palatable for more people. I saw the smoothie question and my off-the-cuff response would be, hey, look at me, I come from a generation that didn't know smoothies were a food group. And, you know, they weren't part of my staple diet. A lot of people in the younger generations, I think, think smoothies are a mandatory good food. I do eat, take, drink

smoothies sometimes. And it is a good option, it is, it presents a good option to incorporate the vegetable, broccoli sprouts, and to disguise it or camouflage it with some other tastes. So a couple of ways to answer your question. When we did our trials in China, we had to come up with disguising mechanics.

And first we used mango juice. This was a bunch of PhDs getting together and saying, well, how does this taste? How does this taste? And we picked mango juice. We were all Americans doing this test in America. And we're used to very sweet stuff in America. We took it to China where the palettes are not accustomed to such sweet taste. And they didn't like it very much, our study subjects. So we then did some rather extensive studies with a flavor analysis company, sensory analysis company in New Jersey, we actually published on this. And they helped us identify pineapple juice with a hint of lime juice in it. And you can even dilute it. What we did with our next China study was to dilute it one to one with water. And it turned out to be a really good disguiser of the taste or complementer of the taste of broccoli sprouts. and it takes your taste buds in your mind away from the taste which a lot of people don't find very pleasant. In terms of the autism part of the question, in a number of the clinical trials we've done on autism,

we, of course, had to use, we didn't give them broccoli sprouts. That would have been way too difficult. You're right, a lot of kids with autism, people with autism had very, very rigid food preferences. and sometimes very narrow. But what we did is give them supplements with a calibrated amount of sulforaphane. And then we gave each of the parents just a $5 Amazon hand pill crusher

so they could crush the pill and add it to whatever the favorite food of that child was in the case of the studies we did. So, yeah, they wound up camouflaging both taste and texture. That's a good idea. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's make. move on to the next question, and the question has to do with a recent study that claimed

microwaving broccoli was able to increase levels of sulfurophane in the broccoli. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that study? Miranda, I don't like being negative about other people's studies, but I don't like it. So respectfully, you know, I think they said a number of things that are misleading. eating, maybe not wrong, but they sort of get you down the wrong garden path to truth. So first of all, when you harvest broccoli sprouts or broccoli, you or a farmer, they don't have any sulforaphane in them. They don't have any free sulforaphane. It's all glucaeraphan,

which is the precursor of sulforaphane. Myrosanase converts one to the other. It happens when you start chewing. It happens in your gut. We've talked about that. Microwaving is merely a gentle method by which one cooks and you can try to minimize denaturing or destruction of myrosanase with microwaving. And there's evidence that you may not completely wipe out the myrosinase if you don't get the internal temperature of the food product up above 70 or 80 degrees centigrade Celsius. Microwaving also gives you minimal leakage of plant juice. So, you know, when you steam the hell out of something or boil a vegetable, you know, most of the goodies come out in the wash. They come out in the pot liquor, right?

So microwaving is useful there. But they state, don't have it in front of me, they state something like increase the levels of sulfurapine and broccoli. You do not increase the levels of either sulfuric. or glucoraphane by a cooking method whatsoever, you may enhance it, you may retard its destruction, you may retard its loss or limit its loss. But the other thing is they have a couple of figures in that paper that suggest, and, you know, I should talk to the authors perhaps and take my beef to them, but they suggest that the controls have far less glucoraphon in them than the treatments, the different microwave times.

That can't be so. It's impossible. I promise you that you don't create glucoraphonin out of whole cloth. You don't magically create it. So I'm not very, there's enough that worries me about that paper that I, would sort of steer clear of it and just say, yeah, indeed, microwaving, if you're going to cook broccoli and microwaving is probably the best way to do it. Minimal microwaving, make it nice and a little tender and soft and minimize the leakage of compounds into the pot liquor or else incorporate that

into whatever you're eating. And that's the way I make broccoli, you know, rinse it, put it in the corning dish, put it in the microwave until it just gets, a little less crunchy and eat it. And there's basically nothing in the bottom. And I put lemon juice on it. I do the same thing. I microwave my broccoli, but I put mustard seed powder. And just, just an FYI for everyone viewing right now or listening. When that paper came out, the first thing I did was email Jed. And I was like, what do you think of this paper? What did I say? I forgot. Oh, you weren't, you were probably less PC about it to me. But thanks for your expert opinion on that.

I think that that can be, that is a misleading study. Next, the last question in this section has to do with storing broccoli sprouts. So once they're grown in a big batch, if you grow them in a big batch, sorry, what's the best way to store them? The freezer, the refrigerator, how long can they be frozen or how long can they be refrigerated and still be potent? Yep. So good question. You grow them. How do you harvest them?

Harvesting is taking the jar. This jar has water, but this is one of my sprouting jars. You take this jar and you put it in the refrigerator. What does that do? It slows the growth rate of the sprouts down to a very, very slow crawl, so they don't increase in size very much. You would leave them in their refrigerator. I leave them in the refrigerator for a short time, a few days, two or three days,

only because after that time there's more and more risk that whatever bacteria are associated with those sprouts when you grow them are going to start to proliferate, they get sort of rank and gungy after, you know, certainly a week in the refrigerator. In my experience, and you've certainly seen that if you've bought sprouts in the grocery store. They get, you know, sometimes half of the or three quarters of the sprouts and the sprout, the little tiny sprout part of a supermarket or rank. I wouldn't want to touch them.

They just spoil very quickly. If you're going to keep them for a long time and you make a large batch, by far the easiest way to preserve them, I think, is to just spread them out on a cookie tray or a baking tin, put wax paper on it if you want, and quick freeze them. And then when you quick freeze them, you can bundle them and put them in a bag or a container, and then you can keep them for weeks or even months.

My rossanase will remain active, I mean, we haven't done kill curves to see how many weeks of freezing broccoli sprouts in a home freezer will work. But home freezers do have a freeze thaw or a defrost cycle, and that may actually allow the sprouts to keep on sort of thawing a little bit and myrosonase may activate. And then you may sort of use it up to be sort of the 30,000 foot view of what might happen there. So I wouldn't keep them for more than a month or two in the freezer. But yeah. Really great. Really great suggestions, Jed.

Cool. So let's move on to some of the questions relating to the alternatives to broccoli sprouting. So the first question is, in previous discussions around sulfurophorephine and broccoli sprouts, maringa has come up. It's been mentioned to have similar benefits. This person says that their family has six Moringa trees in Mexico, and they consume large handfuls of maringa leaves daily in their smoothie. Is there any research to indicate that the most bioavailable way to consume maringa,

for example, the leaves, dried and powdered, frozen leaves, etc. Yeah, I was glad to see that question, and I saw someone else made some comment about that picture of you and me in your podcast. One of us was holding a bag of moringa seeds, and they were right. We had been talking about it as you put your coat on to leave. That was, God, that was forever ago. Three years ago? Four.

Four. Yeah. That was when I was pregnant, but didn't tell anyone. No one knew. I was pregnant with my son. Anyways. I remember learning of that when we met you in San Diego. So I was glad to see the question because indeed,

Meringa leaf powder is sort of my go-to. I am on the scientific advisory board of coolly-cule, which makes maringa leaf powder. So I've got a free supply of maringa leaf powder from them. But it also means that I know a good bit now about the quality and the supply chain of dried marynga leaves. If you live in the tropics, they're ideal because you can grow the trees anywhere. If you don't live in the tropics, fresh leaves are not nearly as good. they don't freeze and travel very, or they don't refrigerate and travel very well at all.

So dried powdered leaves are great, which is why a number of companies have been able to make a business of selling dried powdered leaves in this country. We did a few papers. We've done a number of papers on Meringa. We never had any funding for it, really, or not any to speak of, because this is not a tropical country

and the funding agencies aren't as interested in it. But one of the things we did is experimented with Meringa teas and found that both hot and cold teas are great. And it sort of modifies that sharp taste of the Meringa leaf powder. In terms of efficacy, the isothiocyonate from Moringa, it's called Meringin, and there is a long scientific name I won't bore you with. But in many assays, it's even better than sulforaphane. and in others it's not as good. You know, it depends on the assay and so on. But because of that, I am very bullish about Meringas possibilities.

On the other hand, because it has not been nearly as heavily researched, you know, there's far less we can say about it from a clinical perspective. But the person we asked this question would appreciate this. It's been grown and eaten. Meringa leaves have been grown and eaten for centuries, literally, by populations in the tropics around the world very safely. So the safety of Meringo leaf powder and Meringo leaves is absolutely well documented. There aren't many clinical studies for specific indications,

but they're coming because the interest has really grown in them. So I do use Meringa leaf powder, make Meringa tea all the time. And I recommend it. I think there was the, I copied down the, the, the question that was one of the questions that was asked about Meringa and that person said they've been cold brewing one teaspoon of powder in one cup of water for 30 minutes to great effect. I feel amazing after taking it.

We are working. I should use that as a launching point. I'd say we are working on that sort of comment. I feel amazing after taking it. That's obviously an anecdote. I appreciate it and I see it all the time. We're trying with some clinical studies we're putting together now to better document those sorts of statements.

You know, I feel amazing and I have way more energy are the ones I hear all the time. So we're going to be trying to document those anecdotes that are attributed to both Brockville. sprouts and supplements and Meringa with some hard, hard evidence. So anyway, yeah, they're safe to eating good for you. And I'd encourage their use, but. Two comments, Jed.

One, just my own anecdote, I've been putting Meringa powder from Kooly Kooley in my smoothies, and I also feel great. But I also feel great without the Meringa powder in the smoothie. But the interesting thing I have noticed with the Meringa powder, and this has been repeatable. wearing a continuous glucose monitor for, oh, about three years now. And the... Hardcore. Hardcore.

So hardcore. You have no idea. But my typical smoothie is some little bit of kale and blueberries, avocado, and collagen powder. And adding the maringa powder in there, the marina powder, the blueberries, it doesn't really raise my glucose levels much. So the smoothie itself without the maringa powder you know, brings me to about post-preandial glucose like 105. And the marina powder consistently lowers that by, I don't know, seven to ten units. Don't have any idea what's going on mechanistically. I'm sure someone's going to study it.

And there's been some interesting research on type 2 diabetes. And I don't want to go there because we have to get to safety, which is a really important chunk of this Q&A. But I thought that was an interesting anecdote. The second comment is there was a live question. Sorry. Go ahead. Absolutely. So you can't say something like that and not have me interrupt and say, yeah. So the biggest medical indication for Meringa leaf powder is going to be, is, I think, diabetes.

And that has that is under act. No, no, no, no, not. That is under active investigation, blood glucose control. You're kidding. No, no. We have a review that shows there were six, not all good studies at all. And they were all tiny showing an effect of Meringa, Meringa, from marine leaf pad.

We can talk about that another time. I've even talked about it on a podcast. So my N of 1 was, you know, actually probably real. Very interesting. Now, if all 100 million of your viewers are wearing glucose monitors, we can put them together and have a study. Someone was asking in the chat, and a lot of people were asking to address this question. Dr. Greger from NutritionFacts.org, I guess, allegedly mentioned.

something about not eating Meringa leaves and they didn't, he didn't say why, he didn't give any evidence at all. Do you have any idea why you would say that? That was a question that just popped up in the chat. The only answer I can give you would be nasty and I refuse, I refuse to pay. So I don't have, I don't have any idea why he might say that except for the fact maybe that the database. Maybe he doesn't have a clue. I don't know. Well, I just don't want to say anything. He's, he's done a decent job of translating some of our work to, you know, in this podcast. But I don't know. Sorry. I have no idea either. We can both look into it and get back to that listener maybe. All right. The next question, which I'm sure a lot of people are waiting to hear the answer to,

I've seen this question many, many times. The question is, what brands of sulfurophane supplements do you consider reliable? Okay. The story there requires, again, I've given it to you my disclosure. I started a company with my mentor and his son and the company is still being run with brassica protection products,

and they make broccoli seed extracts that go into a variety of supplements. I know that, and I also based on my, know, grandfatherly love of the company, which, you know, I'm trying to help do good things now that I've retired. I know that the vendors or the supplement makers that they sell their stuff to, by and large, do a good job and make good products. And my lab, before I retired, has tested many of those products and found that, you know, if they say they have X milligrams of glucoraphon

in their product. Yeah, they've got at least that in there. And so they're good supplements. As I mentioned, there are a lot of supplements that are pure crap that don't have what they say they have in. Fortunately, I'm not aware of any of those that are, well, I shouldn't say that. I am aware of some of them that are widely sold and probably people are taking. But I can, so I've commented on brands that I would know, that I know and that I would trust on our website. website, www.wkumaprotection center.org. They're in the FAQs of that website. And specifically, and I can provide links, but they're easy to find.

I know that Crusera SGS by Thorn is good, has what it says. It has. Ankaplex, which is made by a company called Zymogen. Avicol, which is made by Neutromax. Swanson has a vision defense product that's decent. Orthomolecular has something called mitocore. Max International has something called Max Enfuse, which is a drink, I believe. Yeah, it is.

So, I mean, these are mostly gel caps tablet. The first two that I mentioned are gel caps. The Avicol is a tablet. Vision defense, I can't remember, but it's a supplement for eye health. So it's got other things in it. So these are all good. I'm not endorsing them in the sense that, you know, I'm not associated with any of those companies,

but I've talked to some of them. I've used some of their products and clinical studies that we've published or that we're getting ready to publish. I would stick with a supplement that someone like me says decent things about, and I only say that because if you take some of the shoddy or supplements, you may wind up just making expensive urine, and meaning you know, you'll spend 30 or 40 or 50 or $60 for a bottle,

and yeah, you'll not get the benefits that you hope for. Just to follow up on that, I know of the supplements that you mentioned that Avmicol has stabilized sulfurine in it. Do any of the other supplements, are they just all glucoraphrenin? No, it doesn't. Actually, that's not correct.

Stabilized myrosinase. So Abmechol has glucoraphin and it and it has myrosinase. I think all of those companies are going to move towards adding myrosinase to their mixes, but I, of course, don't know that. You know, I think they're all decent products. And we've done trials with Thorne's crew. Drusera with Zymogenzonkoplex with Nutramax's abacal. Some of the, there are a lot of clinical, there are a number of clinical studies that

are going to be coming out or are in press using abmecol with autism and schizophrenia. But it's not to say that those are the best supplements. They, I think they're decent supplements and they have active myrosanase. That's true. I think getting, you know, we talked about this when we talked about dosing, but we probably didn't talk about it enough. Your listeners should know that, you know, if you're counting on your gut's myrosin, your intestinal tracts myrosinase to do all of the conversion for a supplement, you're probably going to want to take a higher level of glucoraphinin. And if you're,

if you're getting a product that has myrosinase in it, you don't need as much glucoraphene because some of that conversion is theoretically going to happen based on what you've provided in the supplement tablet. If you were supplementing with sulfurophane, and I know there are a number of questions about this, with stabilized sulfurophane, so let me jump ahead to that. Like prostafing?

Does prostafane have stabilized sulfurophan? Prostephan is the only product that I know that reliably has what they say they have of sulfurophane, the amount they say they have, and it is stable. But it's a European product. It's a French product. I think it's fair to say that it's difficult, very difficult, in fact, to get it in this country to buy it. And because it is a European product, it doesn't fall into the purview of our FDA.

So, you know, you can say all the nasty stuff you want about our regulators and about our FDA, and there are plenty of negative things that have been said about them. But they do have some oversight capacity. And although they don't do a good job of regulated based on the law that governs them, they don't do much in terms of regulating quality of dietary supplements, at least they have some power over the industry. So, you know, I wish there was more stabilized Sulforvane. Various people are working on it.

We've done some, there's a company in, England that has something that's a non-natural synthetic sulforaphane that they've stabilized. We've actually done some experiments with that type of sulforaphane and found that there are some adverse side effects. So I certainly wouldn't recommend that. So, yeah, it's a work in progress again, and companies and universities are looking to ways to stabilize sulforaphane. It's a very unstable molecule inherently, which is one of the reasons why, it does what it does in your body. So it's difficult to deliver.

It's difficult to stabilize, which is why the plant has, you know, focuses on storing glucoraph an and then it converts it when it needs it. Because after all, it's a defensive plant chemical. And we, when we take supplements, I think are well advised to take glucoraphin and myrosanase unless and until someone does a better job. of stabilizing sulfophorophane itself. Great. Thanks for all that really good advice and insight on the supplements.

We'll post a list of those supplements in the show notes when we post it on the website. But I do want to move on to the safety question because of the safety section, because it's a pretty important section as well. The first question was submitted and said, I watched this short video of Paul Saladino, and Joe Rogan about eating veggies.

It said that swimming in cold water has the same effect as eating sulfurophane. I think we need some expert opinion on this video. So I'm just going to kind of come. I'm going to jump in here first on this and say, first of all, cold exposure has actually been shown to decrease the NRF2 pathway in animal studies. Heat exposure, like from something like the sauna or even exercise, does, increase the NRF2 pathway. But not as, at least I don't think it does so as robustly as sulfurophan. And similarly, sulfurophane can increase heat shock proteins, but heat

increases heat chock proteins more robustly. In other words, there's a lot of common denominators between some of these, you know, what we've talked about before is hormetic stressors, but they're possibly doing so in different tissues and they're doing so at different levels. And honestly, speaking of molecular pathways like NRF2, it's, you know, while the discussion of NRF2 or the effects of NRF2 at the molecular level is very interesting and a fun part of the story, people can become very sidetracked. And I think that, you know, molecular biology is so complex. And if we're going to talk about it, we also have to zoom out. We can look at more concrete evidence, more real world things, clinical endpoints. Like, for example, sulfur-ofane can increase the excretion of benzene by 60% after 24 hours, as we discussed.

It has effects on, you know, increasing glutathione in the plasma and the brain, those sorts of, you know, positive therapeutic effects that have been seen in people with autism. And it's also not clear that when we compare exercise to a phytochemical, whether or not we're, even if we are activating similar genetic pathways such as NRF2, it may be in very different tissues. You know, the activation levels could differ dramatically. And I really think, I think saying something can break down to this intervention can magically replace this other intervention comes out, you know, it comes out when someone's trying to oversell a meat agenda. With that said, Jed, do you have anything to say about Cold Shock being the same as, or even sauna or exercise being the same as taking sulfur fing?

Yeah, I've got a ton. Let me speak even faster than before because I don't want us to run out of time without having a chance to weigh in on this. So, yeah, thank you, Rhonda. You forced me to watch that clip of Saladino and Rogan. I would not have otherwise been watching it. But, you know, my reaction to it, I made a couple of notes on it. I don't swim in cold water. Many people don't and can't.

I'd much rather eat good food, tasty food, than physically torture myself. I'm sure cold water immersion has benefits, but, and it may, as you said, you've said it very well, may coincidentally affect some biochemical pathways that sulfophoropane does also, but I guarantee you that the multiplicity of effects of sulfophorapane is not the same as that. From a public health perspective, which is where I spent, you know, many years, and you may not like my saying this, Rhonda, because you're a fitness hacker. You wear a glucose monitor for, you know, three years in a row. But most of the world are not fitness hackers.

Most of the world, you know, we're privileged here in this country. And we're not going to get into politics, but we have far more disposable income than the rest of the world. We're the richest country in the world. And we have gym memberships and saunas and we can buy supplements and we can get good food and, you know, whole foods and on and on and on. And we can take saunas and we can dive into cold water baths and we can, you know, go swimming. The rest of the world can't do that. Think about the tropics. Where do you go to take a bracing cold water bath?

Give me a freaking break. So it's fine for people, you know, with disposable income as we all, everybody on this podcast based on the fact that you have a computer, we're very well off. But most of the tropics, and a lot of the tropics, you know, net daily incomes a few dollars a day. They're lucky if they get water to drink. don't talk about, you know,

saunas and hot water swims. So the multiplicity of effects, you touched the end of that rant, but the multiplicity of effects of sulforaphan that you mentioned are, I'm glad you brought up the fact that NRF2 is not the only thing in the world. There's the anti-inflammatory effect of sulforphine. There's a heat shock inducing effect, antibacterial effect, selective.

There's an direct antiviral effect. Duh. What epoch are we in now, the epic of viral pandemics? There are a number of very good papers showing an antiviral effect. There is immune boosting effect of sulforaphane, blood vessel dilation, cardiovascular disease and ischemia re-perfusion injury, AGEs, advanced glycation, end product detoxification, cell cycle arrest, apoptosis, neurodegeneration, and neurodevelopmental protection, which we touched on. Promotion of mitochondrial function and integrity. So this is an energy play, and much more is

being learned about that. Brain health, cognition, stress resilience, it goes on and on and on, and the literature is robust, whereas it is not for either cold therapy or carnivorism. I would like, you mentioned, and then certainly in this clip, they talked about the carnivore lifestyle. I actually made notes of a number of things I'd like to rebut or comment on in terms of that part of the little clip I watched. If we have time for me to say a few things about it, I'll. Let's talk a little bit about the effects that have been said by Saladino and others about sulfur-oferfane being goitogenic, in other words, having a negative effect on the thyroid. I have some comments there, but can you go ahead and speak to that? Is sulfur-of-fane?

A goitrogen? No, it's not. Maybe not the perfect itself, but yeah, a certain isophthalocyanate. Yeah, so it's not, and nor are broccoli sprouts when eaten in moderation, nor are glucoraphren and rich supplements. Mature broccoli, I mean, this is a, this is a long story, but mature broccoli, broccoli produces different glucosinolates in different phases of its life. lifestyle and market stage broccoli, or heads of broccoli, florets, do have things called

indole glucosinolates. When they are acted on by myrosinase, they can form, they form unstable intermediates, and they can form compounds which can be toxic or goyrogenic and maybe even promote certain cancers, depending upon if they're administered before or after a person gets exposed to the carcinogen. There's a lot of literature and cancer based on animal studies on that. And I think the jury is still out on the beneficial effects of eating of those compounds. But the byproducts of endol glucosinolate metabolism are, among others, are things called

Indole 3-carbonol and di-Indolylyl methane. It's really the subject, I think, for another discussion. but I want to bring it back to broccoli sprouts and sulfurophane. And so we did this 12-week study in China that I told you about. Well, collaborators, I'm not an author of this, co-author of this most recent study, but they took the blood samples from this 12-week study where we gave them sulfurophane from broccoli sprouts

and looked at indicators of thyroid. thyroid status, hormone status and autoimmune status, and found absolutely no negative effects on thyroid function. So that's three months of continuous ingestion of sulforaphane. That's definitely the longest effect that's a study that's looked at thyroid-specific potential side effects. But this is the first author's name is Chartumpecis, and it was 2019. and, you know, this is someone whose specialty is thyroid, thyroid function.

He's published quite widely on it, and there was no effect. So, yeah. Yeah, that was a great study. I mean, three months is a long time, and you certainly would think that after three months of taking continuous broccoli sprout extract every day, if there was going to be a negative effect on the thyroid, you would see it after three months. Moreover, in 2018, there was a very long-term animal. study in rats where there were two groups of rats. There were some rats that were, that had

hypothyroidism, drug-induced hypothyroidism. And then there was an iodine deficient group of rats. And they were given broccoli sprouts, freeze-dried or whatever, you know, broccoli sprout extract. And not only was there no harmful effect on the thyroid, even in iodine-deficient animals, in terms of their thyroid homeostasis, so their TH, the thyroid stimulating hormone, their T3, 3, 3, 4 were all the same. In the animals, in the rats that had hypothyroidism, there was a beneficial effect from the broccoli sprouts in the thyroid gland, an antioxidant effect that was beneficial. So to say that it's a goitrogen and going to have negative effects on the thyroid,

it's quite funny because you see this sort of echo chamber, meme going around, particularly in groups that are anti-plant. And they just have it all wrong, a complete lack of understanding and not even looking at actual good data. Well, interestingly, this persists in the medical community too. So in one of our studies, the autism study that we published in 2014, there were questions from the IRB, which is made up of, among other things, physicians. about potential for thyroid issues, and were we going to monitor thyroid chemistry?

And we did, and we went through the same explanation sort of that I just did with you. And so in that study, the 12-week study with a follow-up, or 16-week, I guess, I have to review my own papers. But daily consumption, this was with autistic kids, not perfectly, nor healthy. subjects, but there were, we followed thyroid chemistry. And as I recall, there were a couple of times

when thyroid function was flagged, and they wound up being in placebos, those that are getting placebo. So, yeah, I mean, it's a concern that keeps on coming up, but with market stage broccoli, it's a valid question to ask. Can you get too much market stage broccoli? Perhaps, yeah, yeah. And there are areas where goiter is endemic, and those people eat a hell of a lot of cabbage. Right. But there also are certain things like arsenic in the soils there. So the cabbage, right, exactly. I mean, there's a lot of compounding factors.

And cabbage is not broccoli sprouts. Exactly. As I mentioned, there's hardly any glucoraffininin and cabbage. So the other question also was related to Saladino. And the question was, how do you respond to Paul Saladino's claims on, Joe Rogan's podcast that the risks of sulfurophane outweigh the benefits. Okay. Do we have from now to close?

Until 11.30. Yeah, we've got 14 minutes. Okay. So I have, I made a short, a little list of nine points. I don't want to go through them in detail, but let me just sort of tick them off, I guess. So I think on multiple levels, it's bad advice. the carnivore lifestyle is bad advice. Human beings didn't evolve as carnivores.

We're omnivores. That means we eat a variety, vegetable, and meat. And, you know, this is a product of evolution. You can look at tooth and mouth and jaw structure and all sorts of other anatomical things. It's clear we didn't evolve to be carnivores. And I think a self-enointed fitness or nutrition guru is not going to change the course of human evolution in a generation.

I call them sensationalist claims or not, but the bottom line is there's certain dogma, scientific dogma, and evolution, our evolution as human beings is something that they're not going to be able to rewrite. So anyway, there's an abundance of peer, so this is, you and I agreed we weren't going to talk politics on this, but this is, I feel like a politician. That was first point, second point. There's number two, there's an abundance of peer-reviewed scientific literature showing diastrician fruits and vegetables and especially cruciferous vegetables are good. I'm not aware of credible long-term studies supporting carnivorous lifestyle or the carnivore, approach for humans. Three, the risks to eating everything. And certainly for, you know,

varieties of the spice of life, certainly eating broccoli sprouts only to the exclusion of everything else would be terrible for you. So, but that's not what anybody's advocating. Point four, studies of phytochemicals in isolation and in fight in food matrices and in limited combinations with other phytochemicals, vitamins, minerals, et cetera, show almost without exception that, yes, some things are frank toxins. Think about nicotine. They're toxic at pretty much any level and the toxicity goes up. Most, many phytochemical, not most, but many phytochemicals have a U-shaped effect curve, hormesis or a hormetic effect. So spanning from no effect at very low concentrations to perhaps benefit or satisfying a requirement to harm or toxicity at the highest level.

You know, everything's toxic at some level. Water is, sugar is, salt is, and sulfurophane is. So I think the evidence is overwhelming, though, that eating a lot of broccoli or broccoli sprouts is not harmful for you. We talked about the extensive evidence of all sorts of pathways that are upregulated, protective pathways. It's thoroughly documented in the literature and the subject of many clinical studies now, good clinical studies, and some bad ones. Number six, long-term consumption of sulfur-fane-rich broccoli sprout beverages we've talked about have been shown not to have negative effects. effects, including on thyroid function. Number seven, let me look at my notes.

Yeah, okay. Meat-only diets. Think about it. Do you get a lot of fiber from a meat-only diet? No. What about fiber and colon cancer? Do you get a lot of vitamin C from a meat-only diet? No.

Think about scurvy. Do you get too much iron on a meat-only diet and therefore more oxidative stress? or at least unless you're eating only grass-fed meats, yeah. Is a meat-only diet pro-inflammatory? Well, maybe. So there are a lot of negatives that I'm not the world's expert on. I'm not claiming to be, but I think on balance, they speak to extreme caution and endorsing that sort of lifestyle.

And then I just finally, one of your members, one of your listeners made a comment, which I'd like to read, And I agree with it. And it was Brad. Hi, Brad, if you're there. And you said, Dr. Saladino made claims that are, many claims that are not backed up by most of the scientific community or gold standard peer-reviewed studies. While someday some of his claims may be proven correct, he seems to have currently have very flimsy evidence. There are no long-lived cultures that live on a predominantly meat-based diet.

True. I think end of story. And we actually have time for some other questions. So that would be great. We could talk more about it, but I think the point's been made by both you and me that this is not something that people ought to flock to. In terms of this guy's advice, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we did talk a little bit about Uric acid already, because that was also a question with the safety.

So I think that. Euric acid, yeah. Eurisic acid, yeah, excuse me. And there was a question about consuming too much, the upper limit, in terms of broccoli sprouts or supplements, maybe. So, I mean, in terms of an upper limit, yeah, I think we touched on it. And I think I said this in the sprouting PDF that we just did. I view food consumption as very much a matter of taste. I mean, you're not just choking down medicine.

So people are going to limit their consumption of broccoli sprouts or market stage broccoli. And I think, from my observation, the practical limit is that people that do eat sprouts are not going to eat more than a couple of ounces, maybe four. three or four ounces at most in a serving in a meal of broccoli sprouts. I'm not wild about the taste of them myself. I do eat them. But so I think there's an auto limitation to the sort of sealing on that. Now, if we knew that there was a variety of broccoli that was producing super,

extremely high glucoraphrenin sprouts, you know, maybe we would want to talk about, okay, two ounces is plenty for a serving or in a day, but we're not at all there. So in terms of eating, I think your body and your taste buds and your food preferences are going to regulate that. I wish we could say the same thing about sugar. But unfortunately, the control mechanism seems to be a little bit bypassed there by pure, you know, crystallized cane sugar. but beat sugar. Anyway, did that answer the question, I think?

Yeah, Jed, this is, I'm going to go ahead and we're going to wrap it up so we can have a little bit of an outro here. And I just thank you so much for taking time to answer the questions relating to broccoli sprouts and crucifference vegetables, isocyanate, sulfuricine, really beneficial to me and to the community in general. for people, for members, for the audience now here, if you like this Q&A, I actually do one every month for Found My Fitness premium members. You can find out more about that at found my fitness.com forward slash premium. Also I want to remind you guys, Jed had mentioned the 15-page sprouting guide guide that he helped put together. This guide covers how to safely sprout broccoli at home, the history of chemo protection and practical tips to perfect your spray. at home. You can find that at found myfitness.com for slash sprouting. It's fully illustrated. It's a great resource.

Jed, for those that want to continue following your work, where can they find you today, as in on the website and perhaps on social media? So today, you have the handles. I'm on Twitter and not very regularly and I don't answer questions very well, but I'll get better now that I'm retired and theoretically have more time to do it. So that's at Jedd-San. And can you spell that? Yeah. So at J-E-D-O-S like Sam, A-N like Nancy. And that's your Twitter handle? Yeah, I think so. So I have a... I've not posted much, but I will try to be more responsive to questions.

And I'm, you know, I'm sorry. We have a website, the chemoprotection Center, which is www.com, www.com, all one word. Is it dot com or dot org? Sorry, dot org. It's dot org. Yeah. And I have a personal website that I have not attended to in a long time because I've

been working, and it just hasn't been the highest priority. But that's jedfahey.com, I think. And yeah, and if you contact Rhonda and say, you know, Jed hasn't been responsive, then she can email me, I suppose. But my intent is to be much more responsive and to keep these websites, to get these websites a bit more updated and user-friendly. I don't use Facebook, and I really don't use LinkedIn very much either, although I'm there.

All right, folks, so there you have it. you can find Jed on Twitter at Jetisand, and you can find them on his website at chemoprotectioncenter.org or possibly alternatively, jedfahey.com. Thanks so much, Jedd, and everyone else, and we'll talk to you next month. So, thank you. Bye. Thank you. It's great being here.