Frame & Reference Podcast - 106: "I Think You Should Leave" DP Markus Mentzer

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Join us on a riveting journey into the world of filmmaking with our esteemed guest- Markus Mentzer, the Director of Photography for 'I Think You Should Leave.' We navigate the twists and turns of this fascinating industry, exploring how cinematic gems like Pacification, Succession, The Crown, and Barry have left indelible imprints on viewers. We also touch on the intriguing shift in viewing practices during the pandemic, observing how we've turned to our phones for movie experiences. Our conversation takes an enlightening turn as we dissect film and digital filming's intricate aspects. Markus imparts invaluable insights on the unique challenges of shooting on film, the unnerving tales related to film loading, and the pain of lens adapter technology in achieving the intended depth of field on older digital cameras. We also cast a spotlight on industry milestones like the introduction of ARRI Alexa and how events like Cinegear that have shaped the film domain. Then, we delve into the roles on a film set and the dynamic art of filmmaking. Markus gives us a peek into the technical impediments in filmmaking, the pivotal role of instinctual skills, and the need for Digital Imaging Technicians (DITs). He also shares his affinity for the second unit DP role and reflects on the increasing corporate nature of the film industry. Plus, he humorously debates the fashion choices of a DP. Do join us for an engaging discourse that promises to submerge you into the captivating world of filmmaking. (0:00:15) - Film Industry and Personal Experiences (0:15:01) - Discussion on Film and Digital Filming (0:26:09) - Experience and Technical Challenges in Filmmaking (0:37:19) - Comparing Approaches to Filmmaking (0:42:25) - Film Set Roles and Energy Drinks (0:47:55) - Maximizing Efficiency and Creativity in Filmmaking (1:02:19) - Value of Curation in Today's Society ⁠⁠⁠Follow F&R on all your favorite social platforms!⁠⁠⁠⁠ You can directly support Frame & Reference by ⁠⁠⁠⁠Buying Me a Coffee⁠⁠⁠⁠ Frame & Reference is supported by Filmtools and ProVideo Coalition. Filmtools is the West Coast's leading supplier of film equipment. From cameras and lights to grip and expendables, Filmtools has you covered for all your film gear needs. Check out ⁠⁠Filmtools.com⁠⁠ for more. ProVideo Coalition is a top news and reviews site focusing on all things production and post. Check out ⁠⁠ProVideoCoalition.com⁠⁠ for the latest news coming out of the industry.

Hello and welcome to frame and reference. I'm your host, Kenny McMillan, and you're listening to Episode 106 with Marcus Menser, DP of I think you should leave. Enjoy. do you have you been watching anything cool recently uh i feel like i have i just watched pacification have you seen that no i haven't even heard of that it's like uh it's like a two hour uh it's a french movie it's like two and a half hours of you know basically uh colonialism on some low or another but uh it's just very nice and slow it just breathes a ton you're like can i should i look at my phone or then you like turn everything off just like shut the world away it's

great i have i'm uh definitely for the for my whole life i was never the like phone while watching things like i was always committed and then i guess it must have been the pandemic or maybe just getting busier but now it's like it keeps creeping back up into the that's so yeah it sucks I feel like the Trump, the Trump pandemic combo just like enabled me to pull that thing out all the time. And all I want to do is hide it. Yeah. Or like I have the limits on. So every like 15 minutes, I'm like, I just take another 15 minutes.

And then suddenly it's like three in the afternoon. Yeah. No, I actually somehow forgot about that how like every morning you'd wake up and check Twitter and just be like, are we at war? No? All right. We're good. We're good. But I still have rights.

All right, we're good, we're good. Yeah, sort of, I guess. Oh, whatever, just for a... Yeah, close enough. Yeah. Oh, we bombed a different country. That's interesting. Yeah, I was, a lot of times, you know, a lot of DPs have been like, oh, succession, the crown and or earlier on.

And I was actually right before you, we had to reschedule, but I was going to interview the guy who shot the crown in Andor. And I was like, oh, fuck. Like, now's the time. I never get to interview a... And or was the first show that I was like, this is what it's, this is what it's supposed to feel like. I just started rewatching it yesterday. And it like, it's just, it's as good as you thought. Like, I didn't think anything of it first episode or two.

I was just like, yeah, I think this could be good, but whatever. I wasn't expecting a lot. Yeah. Now you start from the beginning and again. Now you get this, at least for me, I got the meaning a little more. You know, it's actually going to, it's all building up to something. So, yeah. Oh, it's great.

I was a show this past year. Yeah, by far. And I was trying to tell people who, like, don't watch or, you know, don't really care about Star Wars that much. I'm like, you don't, it doesn't matter. Like, it's just a good show. Like, although I guess I guess the other thing, I mean, I religiously watched Barry. I, uh, I actually was, I worked on the pilot for the Brandon Frost shot. No, no, good.

Yeah, it was also just because like everything we did during, it was only like two and a half weeks. Like, I don't really ever remember jobs very well. but like that one I was very specific because we had like shot lists that they already had and they had photo boarded everything and like they stuck to it and then the whole show was that and it was like oh man this was all they knew all this like they figured this whole thing out in advance and that it's just great that they just kept that thing going for four years you know and they never broke it was yeah that that show was a big surprise i heard i heard bill hater was like, real good at

running things just because, like, he knew everyone's name. He knew everyone's job. He, like, yeah, I mean, he's just a, yeah, I mean, he and Brandon were awesome, too. But, like, they, like, you know, they, he's already an editor in his head. Like, obviously, he's obviously amazing writer. Like, he's got all that stuff, you know? So it's like, yeah. And I'd actually, you know,

friends of mine that I work with, um, Numer as a PA. So, like, because like I started, you know, we all started in like the early 2000s. So they knew him then when he was doing like kind of voices and telling stories and stuff and that everyone just saw him progress. So, yeah, the whole thing is just kind of like, I don't know. And then to see all that, it's just, you know, amazing, super entertaining. But the show on its own, regardless of all that, show is amazing. Yeah, yeah.

It probably helps that he's a giant film nerd too. Have you seen this thing that the criterion in the closet? it thing? No. Do you know what I'm talking about that series? Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, so he does one where he's pulling out like, you know, I think he pulled out Salo. He pulled out like all these other movies.

But he's like naming the directors and naming everything. And then he goes, ooh, house and pulls it out. And he goes, this is my favorite movie. Great date. And then goes, oh, wait, and unzips his hoodie. And he's got the fucking house, the like logo on his shirt. Nerd. Yeah, big nerd, cool guy.

Oh, what I was going to say about Andor, though, it's because he rescheduled. you'll have to send me any questions you have. Oh, yeah. So I can ask him, ask him what's up. Well, I'll probably get through it this weekend, to be honest. Perfect. That's perfect. Yeah, I think he's like later next week, so plenty of time.

Am I correct in reading that you're technically a doctor? Yeah. Technically. Yeah. Yeah. In the day, man. How did you go chemistry, medicine, loader? I mean, I was, you know, I grew up, you know, I grew up in a medical family with

science around. I worked in labs in the summers. I did a lot of really crazy things. And then, and I can't say ever truly loved it. And it wasn't until I was in med school that I really started getting miserable. And every year is like, well, maybe next year's going to get better. next year's better and never did and uh at some point i was like supposed to apply to residency and i was like i can't do this like i need to breathe or do something else because you know you also like study it's just it's so much work you never see the world right so um uh so uh so yeah so when we graduated like everyone was like i'm going to you know Columbia i'm going to university Virginia and then for Marcus

Spencer it was like career to be determined it was like this really was off the grid long sentence and then and yeah so I moved to New York I moved in with my girlfriend and now my wife

from college and so trying to find things that were the opposite of medicine and things that I thought I liked and I was pretty burnt out and started scrubbing cases of Panavision New York were free. I thought maybe there was

a way into the film business. And it was kind of like what you were just saying, word got around pretty quick that there was a doctor like cleaning cases with acetone. And I basically got an internship on this movie called In the Cut.

It was like a little indie movie in the East Village. I think the, I just looked it up the 20 year anniversary is this fall. So what got released? we shot it. Did it hit? I feel like I recognize that name. Yeah, Jane Campion. It was like a Oh, fucking Meg Ryan movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was like, you know, it was basically it was a Dion B.B. shot it. It was like a, it was a single camera in the East Village.

And, you know, it's like New York, right? So you're running max. He needs people to run bags up to the second third floor and walkups. And I was super down. Within like the first week, I new. Like, this is what I want to do. I think at the end of the week, I signed up for like workshops, camera workshops in Maine. I was like, this is it. Like, this is better than anything I've ever done. And Biles was super fortunate because the camera team that I worked with on that was, uh, I mean, they were old school, old school New York, but they were also very like, hey, do this. Hey, do this. You know, this is how you load a camera. Like I'd never been, you know, this is how you, you know, load a mag. This is how I, you know,

This is how carts are set up. This is how you organize a camera truck. This is how you talk to departments. This is trying to slate. My first slating experience was embarrassingly horrible. So it was all of that. And then they just really like threw me in the mix and didn't fire me. And like it was the best.

I'm still super close with all of them. I mean, it was life changing. Yeah. Was that the main media workshops that you got into? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it wasn't, I think you, at the time, you just had to, like, pay, you know, I didn't apply, but, but, yeah, it was, I had a class with, um, his name was Doug Hart.

I think he just passed, like, a week or two ago, actually. Oh, wow. He had had this camera assistant book that I read, you know, that was like, I got to memorize this thing. So, you know, it took, like, a medical approach, but, you know, everything was. just like it was never in an office. You were always in location. You were always trying to solve problems. People were, it was just like, you know, buzzing on set. You're in a little of it. And, you know, there was still pressure. I really liked the pressure too. So, yeah. It's the whole thing. Well, and I assume also the sort of tedium and soloness of a medical

career, not that I went to Mexico. So I went to Arizona State was, was, was, uh, the opposite of that is being on set with a bunch of people. You know, it's the teamwork aspect was probably refreshing as well. Well, you know, the thing was is that the things that I thought medicine were going to be, it just wasn't. Like, I thought that you would have this team and you'd be, you know, you'd work with like nurses and technicians and, you know, people coming out of the ambulance and the ER and all this stuff. And it was like very quickly or sort of at least to me. and I could be totally wrong on this. And on top of it, I was not very good,

so I should have no authority on this. But you were just sort of clocking in, clocking out, you were a hired gun, and, you know, you were, to me, it was like you had to really just brute, memorize everything. And there was no creativity at all. And I think that was very different from like doctors who grew up in like the 70s,

where everything was new. You know, right. you know and um at least it wasn't the 90s I don't know but like you would spend you know you're only allowed to talk to a page for three to five minutes otherwise the insurance company would call up

being like you're wasting your time like you need to see it in patients today it's like what is this like this is not right well doing I can't but I mean you know I really was super lucky to get in and get all that stuff but um it would have just it's not what I thought it was gonna be

Yeah. And I think a lot of, there's a lot of, like, camera people out there who get signs and medicine, I mean, like, film people in general, who I burned out pretty quick. A ton of DPs I've interviewed, specifically the older people, but, uh, we're architects. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm kind of fascinated by that, churn, like, why was it architecture that brought so many creative people? specifically in the camera department that wanted to design buildings I don't know

it's like visually you get it but like I mean I have no idea what do they I don't know what they do I wish I don't know what their day is like yeah well it's certainly not engineering because you're like there's a big hole in this building that planes can fly through and you're like that's not going to be mad at you if they have to build that

the so is that a pretty quick transition from like loader to second then Because, you know, speaking of Bill Hader, you have the pretty standard, like, beginning of the camera department all the way to the, all the way to the finish line, so to speak. Yeah, I mean, I think you start out thinking, like, I'm going to be shooting movies in, like, six months. And, you know, every one of these positions is, like, a real specialty. So, like, you know, Loder to second took me three years. And then, I think, second to first took me six years.

And then first of D.P. was in the seven-year range. but like every time you move up you it's like a whole new job right because nobody knows you in that position and they have to prove to those people and you have to get recommendations for that and to build your like clients I suppose this is the way to say it but um yeah and then on top of that you have to sort of just try to live a normal life you know you have to you have to stuff you know you want to be able to like have a family and stuff so yeah so yeah so I it's think that it took some time but like I also really like my job and I like working in that apartment a lot still do I think the big trick is to like stay out of people's business

it's true back in you've become one of the old dudes back in my day he used to you know load like this it's like I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore with digital so I got to stay out of it it has it has been kind of fun to chat with various people about about like the transition from film to digital, because I feel like from those on the outside or simply just like fans of movies, there's this kind of like, I mean, obviously we all romanticize film because it's pretty and whatnot, but I think everyone I've spoken to

who went through that transition basically said it was practically way better to shoot digital. And the only romanticism came from the sort of mystery part of it you know it's like being a magician where it's like once you know the tricks you're more looking at it analytically like uh good you know or like a comedian you can always tell who's a comedian in the room when you're at a stand-up show because they're in the back just going you know yeah nailed it yeah that's fucking hilarious you know yeah uh i totally i think that's like that's a great summary i would agree with all of it i mean the mystery is you know i mean the only

person with film the only person who really knows what's going on is the one with the eye and the eyepiece right everything else is sort of just guesswork you don't know what the video tabs doing you can't even hear some score you know something's wrong with the camera all of it so um and that mystery like makes everything look better and so right um but but yeah yeah i mean i i totally agree with that and i mean there's definitely things that i miss about film but a lot of it is again, though, that period of time where, like, I was loading or seconding the smell of it, though, like...

Smells like power bait, right? Right. I keep telling people that I'm like, do you know what power bait smells like? That's film. I mean, I was telling this, we were telling, like, loading horror stories last week.

And one of them was, I was on a movie in Freeport as a second. And we were parked on a hill. And, um, the carts had not been tied down and so I like someone was like we're flipping stocks and so I ran and opened up the back of the truck and two carts full of bags just like flew out the back and dumped out and I remember turning around and our DP was Matt Leonetti and his head was

poking out of the door looking at me and I was like I'm going home this is it like this is the worst you know and like everything had to be real I had to dive in with the loader and reload everything because everything had cored out and you know it's all that fun stuff and uh you know loading this was like much more high pressure in a way but yeah um yeah i miss all that stuff it does i mean it does sound i only got to shoot like 16 millimeter when i was in uh a film school before college when i when i hit college they're like this is the dvx 100 and you're going to use it for the i remember we got one 5d towards the end of it and uh everyone had to fight for the five d for the five and I was just like, I bought a, what did I have, an AF100?

I went from an XL2 to an AF100, and I was just like, I know the truth. I love those. I had an HVX, I loved that thing. I learned, I feel like I learned everything from that one camera. It took, you know, as someone who kind of, you know, I'm about to hit my mid-30s, and so I kind of have this mental history of digital kind of coming, coming out you know uh and i and i recall this one era where you remember we had like the lens adapter like the yeah yeah of course you actually put the the lettuce uh or like the red rock or

anything yeah i may have had the red rock maybe that's the one i got did yours have the spinning glass or the solid glass yeah so i i think i think that was the lettuce oh yeah that's right you're right lettuce 35 right yep yep and uh but i remember remember we remember you had before that thing you had to zoom all the way in to get any depth of field yeah and it now looking back on it now that lens choices are so kind of let's say easy uh there's a whole era after the dvx era or the dvd era where everyone's shooting on like a hundred millimeters just because they're used to that like i was like watching old vimeo shit and i was like damn we really just stuck with that like everything is like 85 or up well all of it there's like you're always wide open stop you always like all those things um yeah the whole the whole that whole machinery to make it look and also like you know the color palette like the everything was just like you know you didn't have the full range of film everything was just kind of like what did we create with this it's digital thing right in order to shoot shorts or whatever yeah it was uh was it 28 days later

that gave everyone permission to like not freak out about having film Yeah. Well, also, I feel like there was a moment. I can't remember what you, maybe this was like 2012 or 13 when, maybe earlier when Roger Deacons was like, I thought it was him. He was like, film was dead. Like he shot with the Alexa for something with the Alexa the first time. He's like, this is fixed all of our problems. 12 or 13 would be correct. Yeah. Right. And then, you know, that didn't age super well. He was right for all the reasons. I mean, it was super difficult. Did you go to Sinegear or the weekend? I didn't. No, I missed it.

So, I mean, it was kind of the vibe I got from everyone there was like, yeah, yeah, a lot of equipment. It was just nice to see everyone again and like beyond the lot. Because like I went to NAB and that was a fucking nightmare. There was just, it's just too much. There's just 65,000 people there. That's my entire college. Like, you all run into anyone.

And if you do, it's a surprise. You know, Synegear is way more relaxed and it's in L.A., so you see all your friends and shit. but yeah there was plenty of like there was a really high quality video tap that I saw on display like and it was still in the prototype they wouldn't let me take photos of it or anything because I had like what was it any I could find the oh you mean it was for any film camera it was yeah yeah they were just designing like a super HD video tap um and it looked it looked fantastic and I was like the fact that they're and again it was a prototype like they weren't even done with it and they're like we're just showing people that we make a nice video tap now and it looked it looked fantastic and I was like the fact that they're like we're just showing people that we make a nice video tap now. And I was like the fact that they have enough money to do R&D for something they'll probably sell like maybe like a hundred of, you know, is, uh, interesting. So just the, you know, films come back. Although I've heard Kodak can't fucking keep up with it's like supply chain. They, they fired everyone, you know, then now they're getting hired back. Yeah, I mean, all of it. I mean, I'm sure. I mean, the thing is, I don't know when I'm assuming it happened. in like 2019 or 20 but the you know

for the longest time it was like whatever it takes to get a film made they'll offer discounts and everything and now it's the opposite now it's like

we don't care if you have you know 50 film cameras on the shelf like you're going to pay top dollar for it you're going to no more discounts on you know

on film stock any of it so unless you're Nolan and you buy millions of miles of film yeah the size possible yeah exactly and and advertise it for it constantly i mean like i yeah it's uh

it's um an expensive thing to do and you have to have the budget out of the gate i think to do it yeah i did i did want to ask because like a lot of you know you got a lot of shorts under your belt and a lot of um comedy and stuff but it you know looking through your i mdb all the not all of but a lot of the first ac work you did like fucking thor fast five uh this is the end jack reacher shit like that what what did uh those being on those sets and and kind of observing that style of filming did you have you carried anything over to that did that teach you anything that was like memorable so to speak or was that just kind of like a generally high intensity sets and you kind of move on yeah i mean like there were um i mean

i think when you're in that world it's it's it's it's it's like it's basically just a job you know So, like, once you've seen those things, I don't really feel, like, super intimidated by that, or, like, you know, if there's certain actors or directors or whatever, like, we all, it's another job, you know, and there, I mean, maybe things move a little bit differently. I mean, ultimately, they're just on a bigger scale. There's certain things that happen to those film sets that happen on, like, you know, film school shorts. So, like, you know, the basics of it are all still there. I mean, the one thing that helps a lot is if there's some, like, latest technology or some latest, newest thing, you, like, always see it on those films. Oh, really? It'll always show up on those things, yeah.

Is that just, I always thought it was kind of the opposite, like, music videos, commercials maybe, yeah. And then the larger films that was like, we're fucking sticking bog standard here, because we're not, we don't want any surprises. You know, that's a good point. I mean, maybe, no, I feel like they'll always try. They may not use it, but it'll show up. Oh, but it'll be there. Sure. It'll be there.

Like the latest remote, you know, the latest stabilized head will show up and you'll be like, what's this thing? Like, right. This is the same. And because like you can always, I think on those shoots, you know, if you need two technicians, you know, the company will actually send out three just because they want their product to work. Right.

So, so that's kind of a thing. um and uh yeah like there's just a certain um once you've seen those things you're not really i feel like at least you're not like super scared to order it you know if something goes big and suddenly you're on a film set that's now jumped to five cameras and there's you know i don't know you can lean on people to do stuff right it's like in the indie you know low budget world you kind of have to do a lot on your own if you want to get things done a certain or shot a certain way it's hard to rely you don't want to like put too much pressure on people who maybe haven't done that before you know yeah it's it's got to be kind of like the

thing of like when you get really rich suddenly everything's free you know or like if you're famous everyone wants to give you shit it's like you finally hit the big time and you're like oh i don't have to do anything like make him do it that sounds like i wonder what yeah that sounds nice I haven't been on this that is kind of what I was wondering like on because I've heard it similar thoughts said before

where it's like once you do see the big leagues as it were things become less scary but I was wondering kind of on a more technical level like going from smaller shoots to your you know whatever Thor big short well I guess big short

is different in this case but lighting, you know, I think a lot of, as this podcast is somewhat educational, if, you know, if I can, looking at the lighting setups and stuff, like what were kind of some of those differences that you saw besides obviously scale that were people were taking into account that maybe indie people wouldn't quite know about. I think I don't know I feel like on a bigger set like that

you have department heads are much more actively engaged with like producers you know a lot of times department heads like a gaffer or key grip will get hired by the producer and so because those budgets are just so massive

there's no real you know you have to just be prepared to create everything and at any given time, you know, all of a sudden, like, I'm not going to use like a, you know, some A level actor is like, well, I want to shoot my like, you know, sunset scene at two in the morning, you know, on Thursday, but I want to do it outside. It's just like, you know, there is no no in those things. It's like, if that's the request, the answer is yes. And and we will find any way to do it. So, um, but, I think it's hard, I think as a DEP, at least from what I've seen, from like, obviously very, like, legendary DPs.

You know, the Gaffers and Key Grip are highly involved, and a lot of times the DEPs there as a, has to just manage correctly. Like, you know, maybe they've heard of stuff that's, you know, sort of the politics, everything is just heightened, right? so like they they can see like the storm coming and let the guys know hey you know so just so you know yes you're setting up that sunset scene but what they really are thinking about is doing this like this like rain underwater scene in a storm like you know 100 miles away so like get enough people to hide you know to sort of like cover everything right so i think that's like it's just the experience level um at that the experience level is is pretty insane you know like every the department heads are just have worked with everybody and they've seen everything and they're

not faced by any of it right they can it's definitely more comedic to that where i think if it's you don't have the experience it'll scare the hell out of you but uh you know the money it's like just on those tests like you're going to spend money you know you'll try to And at the same time, they're smart enough to know where to save it. And it's just a really hard thing that I think only experience teaches you that. There's no way to read about it or ask, you know, other people about it. You just have to be in the thick of it and probably get screwed at some point with her to figure it out. But on like a technical level, or is it just more like, oh, instead of a key light being maybe a chimered sky panel, now it's just like a 12.

by things just literally get bigger or are you seeing like different techniques oh yeah no i mean i'm thinking more like like i mean if it had to be like a b b like like maybe that's the way to go just send that thing like half a mile away right you know and then like i mean this is that's the thing is that they have to you just have to be ready technically yes i mean technically i would say go big on everything because you don't it just gives you more flexibility you know i don't think It's really, you can't, at least in my experience, I think it's hard to, like, set a mark down and be like, you're going to be right here for this line. Right. They're going to be like, no, no, no, I'm coming at you.

And I want you to push in suddenly last second. And it's not just that, like the focus puller. They get one champ. You know, they'll do these, especially in L.A. It happens all the time that you have, you know, you'll have, again, an A-list actor, and you get two takes, and they're doing like this. crash push in on our techno and there's no marks and yeah there's a lot of tricks and tools now

that they have that make it easier but yeah it's not it's like all it's all this stuff that and they're expected to nail it and there's nothing you can do to really slow it down you know if you could if you try to you're just not going to last

I think yeah I mean I've aced a couple as a focus puller on like a couple shorts and I found that the years of shooting my own stuff and like pulling my own focus by hand you know like on the lens i can see i can tell the different tell me if this is true for you or if i'm full of shit and and i'm just making this but like i can tell the difference between the area that's in front of the focus plane and the air like the the focus looks different in the front area of the depth

of field versus the back and so if that starts to go i can like i i also focus the focus peeking is nice these days. I never had to do it the old school way. They're like, you want to measure it? I'm like, yeah, laser measure that's close enough. I got focus peaking, you know, but like, yeah, we can kind of do it that. Yeah, I think that I mean, it depends on the lens, right? I mean, I think anamorphics are different. And then like vintage

ones go different. Like, there's, there's like a, yeah, there's a different stigmatism, I think, to the back. I remember correctly. Um, I mean, a lot of it, at least for me always happened so fast that you'd have to,

like a lot of it was sort of instinctual. And I also learned it sort of like in the film days. So like I'd do both. You know, I'd have a monitor and marks and then towards the end discussed work. And I kind of got out of it when things started going full frame, which is when it got really insane.

Because like you needed the light range. So you needed all the highest end stuff to do that. Focus bug. Yeah, but I say that. But then I also work with a bunch of focus pullers like the legends who wouldn't use any. thing and it was like how these guys just made a deal with devil and they did everything a lot of those guys remembered it um they just knew frames like the funny pullers would know like at 50 that's

six feet would be you know and and that's how they didn't boast of their focus so that that shit's wild i like i watched i watched an old get uh there's a bar in downtown called the wolves that i was just yeah yeah of course oh yeah and filmmaker owned they just did like a party for the strike and all that and there's a guy telling a story about how like this AC or like old guy was able this dude has a mohawk and he was like i bet that's 12 12 inches you know three three quarters or whatever and they brought out a tape measure and he was fucking dead on like yeah i try to do that a couple times and i was never close enough i was within like a foot but like i can never like nail it Yeah, a foot at 1.8 is not going to do it.

Yeah. The, oh, man, so actually, speaking of the big short, that must have been a tough focus pulling experience with all the crash zooms and, like, whip pants and cold shit like that. Yeah, that's an interesting movie. I mean, it changed. It definitely was, like, the biggest movie I'd done in the sense

that, like, I met Barry Ackroyd on a movie. I was in New Orleans on something else. Barry's normal focus puller on that job was not available. And the second assistant that lived locally, he put me up for the job. And I met Barry and I was just happening with the right, this right time. And Barry also kind of went through the ranks, more of the documentary side. But he was, you know, crew. and but he has like just a very different approach to it especially the way he shoots and thank God

otherwise I probably would fire you yeah you know you kind of changed my life in terms of like how you would uh how you approach to making and like management from the idea that like it's okay for people to make mistakes um and sometimes to encourage it a little bit and then if they happen you know to back them up or to give them another shot um to really more about the effort and how like engaged you are so that one was tough but that was very also baked in from the very beginning because he like we lived on dollies and sliders and the 12 to 1 always like on the pretty much on the long end of the 12 to 1 and I remember like at the very beginning like we did the first two weeks on Christian bail and he was like between even during

the take like Barry would unlock the dolly start sliding and pushing and moving. And I was like, all right, well, is this, I was going to go down? And that's what they wanted. Like, they wanted that. They just wanted, you know, they wanted the out of focus stuff. They won, they were going to use all of that.

Yeah. So, because it's just a really boring story about finance. Right. How are you going to get people engaged? Like, you're going to shoot at like an action movie, I guess. And, yeah, I feel like I learned, you know, most of what I do. I rip off from Barry.

Because you've had a few, like, mentors that have been, like, Barry, you got, Brian Gross. Yeah. Oh, Brandon, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Tag Fujimoto, would you, and I wrote it down, Dean Semler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, all those guys, I mean, yeah, they're all legends and they all, you know, all of them

have really come up through the ranks and done a ton of indie work. I never you don't realize when you like walk onto these huge film sets and they're legends and you kind of assume they like just point at the sky and then beautiful things happen right but like there's just a ton of experience there and they know you know at they all did work where it was just like them and an actor and a director and a sound person maybe sometimes you know it was like so it would just not that you don't I mean all the departments and all the special days or everything but you know and they all came from this indie world and just have to do it on your own um but then also did big stuff as well yeah is uh here's my hot

ones question uh in what way in what ways i've definitely stolen interview shit from that guy uh because man the first the first like 20 episodes of this thing were a little rough um it's like damn i talked great though he's like so addictive. I can't look about it. That show rules. He's too, he's too good. I want to have him on this show and just be like, all right, give me advice. Like, I can't prepare like he does because that guy is like, he's got like team. He's having a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, well, and I will say like certain DPs aren't that well known or maybe don't do a lot of press. So that's like impossible to do any research on him beyond what, you know, you go on their Instagram and you're like, I don't fucking learn something. Yeah. Well, right now I have, I've said this before on the podcast. I am the only one here. So I produce, I edit, I book. Good for you. The research. I mean, at some point I'll get a sponsor. Right now it's a, right now it's a public service. But the question being between those like four mentors you had, like in what way are they the same and in what ways are they, were they different in their approach to filmmaking? Well, that's, it's funny because they're all, um like those four people in particular are everyone has a very different personality like extremely different personality like they're not but also uh on their movies they also all have a very similar temperament like they all you know those people were all different generations too

and they all acted the exact same and that was like a weird thing that i um when i first worked with uh brandon um i think he was like maybe 28 at the time so like and he was shooting this adam sandler movie so he had just finished ghost writer i think for that um maybe a mcgruber maybe too but like so he got i love mcgurber i got the blu-ray i must have bought the only copy at the best buy but i think that's a funny movie it's so good it's all time he uh yeah so he basically um here's this like 28 year old kid that's on this $80 million dollar Santa Ruby, you know,

when everyone knows each other, you know, it's like, it's like a high stress environment. And, um, and he'd like totally handle it. The second you see it, you know,

within like, you know, 10 minutes, you're like, oh, he's like all the old timers. Like, this is great.

And it's just, I think it's a certain approach. Honestly, I think it's just approaching it just like any other job. Like, here are the problems. This is what we're going to do. It's not boring.

It's not like easy. It's just, it's just very methodical and, you know, what you're getting every day. And there's really new stuff that happens. But they also want to know, they want to have your input. Like they're not necessarily,

you know, they're not teaching the, you know, this, you know, this, you know, 40 year experience daffer or first assistant how to do something. right it's like this is what we're doing you know and um does the camera all good yeah yeah it's good all good well just keep going so it's just sort of like a steady approach that they all have uh alike

and and um no matter at least to me no matter what their backgrounds are uh dPs um and like the whole gamut um weirdly on set the ones that i see that i work with on the higher end they all have the same approach and I don't know how they got there because they didn't work together you know DPs never will work together we'll never study each other um and frankly like like kind of what I did I don't think that many people go through the ranks is it just takes too long right you know by the time you get to shooting you're just too old like me so I don't know so I think I mean same bro I ain't that shit still doing corporate I hate what do you do I well I because I write for Providio coalition

I'm always people go what do you do I just go Because I've done that for 10 years too, but like, you say DP, like, anything I've seen, I'm like, not unless you're watching corporate videos on TikTok on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it just takes, it's like takes a long time. And they just have this, yeah, I don't know, I don't know how to describe, you know, one, there was one, I guess I won't, I won't be too specific on it, but there's a, I remember there was somebody, there was a DP I worked with and they were looking at, to hire a DIT. And so I put out some names. We hired somebody. And like a day one, the DP was like, yeah, they kind of, they act like a DIT. Like, they fit the role.

Like, there's a certain, like, aura that people in certain positions have. And they fit the bill. And those are the ones that seem to work out. And usually it's, I'm assuming it's just baked into, like, the pressures they're under, the people they have to talk to and like it's a self-selecting kind of thing where only the people that

are like that make it because they need those skills to get there yeah like the like the first sort of have to have some zen but they have to be nervous too a little bit and and for deep you gotta have a boofy jacket and blundstones yeah exactly

you know you get your armory shoes and glasses yeah i know i don't have man watching uh fuck what's his name uh dude who shot uh iron man um maddie maddie watching him pop around at like synagarin stuff with he's just always got i feel like they just took the glasses off of him and put him on tony stark and went there that's the that's his he's like can i have those back to like no they're tony's now you know what that's right he's got the cool glasses the um also i want i would i did want to give you a compliment i uh i got to see studio six six six in uh the

theaters. Oh, yeah. And when it came out and, uh, good, just good job on that one. I mean, that was, I mean, I barely did anything, you know, I basically, uh, you just shot that through all of, um, uh, COVID, you know, I think they had a shipment five days in. So he had just, he was, even when they were done, he had just two tons of pickups. I just happened to be one of them. So like, you know, BJ was an operator. I worked with BJ was the director. And Brandon Tross was the DP and I was the focus puller and the three of us, I think, did like 10 movies together or something. Yeah. So, so yeah, we're pretty linked in that sense.

Yeah, the, oh, I had gone somewhere with that, but now it's, oh, I did, well, I'll jump around. I don't know if this is obvious, but I'm not very, uh, structured in my, in my conversation. I keep drinking coffee, so that's, yeah, I need, my girlfriend started getting these, uh, Celsius energy drinks. I worked for, like, Red Bull for eight years. Yeah, yeah, I've seen those. So with a Red Bull, you know, regular can, 80 milligrams. They'd get three cases a month just to have, you know, or give out college remember. And so I think my body's good at 80 milligrams.

The Celsius tastes a little too sweet, but there's 200 milligrams in there. Oh, no. A coffee's 120. Two hundred, though, and a can, too, so it'll disappear, like, instantly. Oh, and it tastes like sugar, you know, it tastes like a soda. So you're like, bang. and the first few I guess I've equalized now but I get real time I need a nap in the afternoon but like those first couple I felt sick I was you know like you get those like energy jitters I was like this is not like did I just smoke a pack of cigarettes the fuck is this um I wasn't going to say oh the DP thing of to your point about being kind of the vibe would you say that a lot of it is kind of just you know knowing when to delegate being a good boss but keeping your cool is that kind of. Is that kind of. of the overall vibe that you're speaking of that kind of 100% yeah I mean um um and like also the

you know I when I started there were definitely a lot more screamers in like 2002 right I mean that was just part of you know that was part of the time or maybe it was just you know there's more like rah rah from like the 90s um well uh you know a lot of really bad stuff happen. And it's also just gotten more corporate over the past 10, 15 years, without a doubt. It's just like everything's been, you know, nailed. There's emails and texts and then on top of that, the phone, there's evidence for everything, like everything much more corporate. So in a good way. I mean, because it's eliminated a lot of like. There's an HR department now. Yeah. Yeah, for the crew. Maybe not for the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, uh, uh,

yeah I don't know um that that's definitely yeah you just have to like keep your cool i mean it's not only you have to but like you know you're gonna um a lot of people have spent a lot of time organizing your days and you've been a part of that and uh you know the day's gonna end you're gonna get a lot done and then you're gonna move on to the next day no like i think it's um there's just a certain rhythm to it that makes sense to me just because i've been on a lot of film sense right no it's like very it feels like home i would never want it to be home i'd rather go home right right but uh yeah i mean that's also a big perk about something you know dPs get to do and not directors where like directors it never ends you know they develop it for two or three

years then they finally get to this thing and they have this tiny bit of time and then they have to keep making it after it's done dps like when it's over like we're we're out i mean i was going to say in the same vein, which job do you think is better? Second unit DP or camera operator first unit? Oh. Huh.

That's a really good question. I mean, I personally like DP more so. Like, I would say second unit DP. And I like trying to like fit into like what other people are doing. It's sort of like a little bit of a puzzle to make sure you stay in there same vein. And, you know, at least for me, like the second unit stuff, I want to, I don't want anyone to know that I shot it.

Like, that's the biggest compliment you can get. It's just to be like, like, the DP didn't even totally forgot they didn't shoot that thing. So, and that's something I stole some other DPs. Like, that's just, I think it's an approach. It's really fun. The first unit operating, yeah, I just like DEP there. So I, I, 100%. I mean, the first.

camera operating in general is probably like the best job in terms of like we're super done but the second unit thing the reason I ask is because I I was a second unit on the last Bruce Willis film it was like a one day shoot we did 11 pages and

and it was a great experience but to your point like I was getting all these screenshots I had to reshoot the reverse of a scene in you know a completely different state and luckily it was you know relatively low budget it so they were like just got to work with the daylight you know which made my life easier

but even the stuff where we had to match lighting it felt it was very um not gratifying but like that sense of calm you were talking about where like they showed me the photos and I was like oh I can do that like I know I know how to match that yeah you know and you get the especially with LEDs you know I don't have to gel shit I was just like dial it in the good all right cool and then got to see it in theaters and I was like like 15 minutes of what I shot ended up in the film, which I was fucking flabbergasted by. Yeah. But yeah, it all like matched.

And I was just like, that's lovely. It's really fun. I mean, I think that's the thing about, I think it's less and less now because of probably because of AI and everything else. But like all these tricks we had to make it work, it's kind of a fun. It's just super fun.

Like, we were just hacking. It's so we're doing. Yeah. I'm not hacking as in like being a hack. I mean, it's just a computer hacking you're just trying to break something and fix it and nobody knows about it well and especially with the matching and this will be a great dovetail dose i think you should leave uh the you know when you're given a set like a set look um i in my head it's like easier to match something than to make it up you know when you're given the yeah for sure no for sure you're an infinite palette you know

you're like oh shit yeah yeah no it's yeah you're being creative technically right on yeah whereas um uh on first unit is the shooting or reading or yeah trying to honor you know the director and they're the actors and the writer and everything so with uh i think you should leave the reason that i thought this was a good dovetail was because every every short whatever you want call every sketch yeah is i got yelled that for saying skit once uh no we're in a different i didn't get yell he was he was on the podcast but he was like that it's a sketch. It was the guy,

what's his name? Oh, crap. He's the guy who shot Key and Peel. Charles. Charles, Charles Pappert, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's a great guy.

But, so how, like, how do you, knowing that your show, because you've done all three seasons, right? Uh-huh. So knowing that you've got, whatever the budget is, you know, probably not the most extravagant thing in the world. How do you maximize, you know,

your shooting package to get ready for, are you tailoring, you know, know, per sketch, what you're bringing to the set? Or is it like one kind of general order that you put in? And then, like, how are you maximizing your efficiency and technology and creative ability? Yeah. I mean, basically, the thing, it's like you said, budget and time wise and all that. I think it should be we have an average, like 30, 32 sketches a season. And this last season was our biggest shooting, like, day-wise. We had 24 days. And season one was like 18 days. So, and then you have talent coming in, and then, you know, you have 40, mid-40s, like,

locations you got to deal with in those. So, like, everything is, like, constantly shifting. Like, our producers, location team, our directors, they're, we, after three seasons, we're all, I think, very tight. And we know. what we're all dealing with but it's always shifting so you have to get one camera package that on any given day can really go big or just be like handel tiny one camera and um because you hour to hour the schedule will shift so we might have like especially this last season or two with COVID like everything can change so you just have to I the only time we ever got extra gear was for Crashmore on season two

and we got some anamorphic lenses. But that was it. Outside of that, yeah, we shoot Venice for a couple different reasons. One of them being well, so we can go Rialto and get really small. So that can get anywhere. You can get into a car or we can be on a techno crane or whatever, and then deal with it remotely.

We shoot mainly zooms. And again, I think it's for speed. Honestly, we don't have time to, like, change lenses a lot of times. So we kind of go like old school TV. Yeah. You know, back in the day, they would shoot on a Panavision 4 to 1 and 11 to 1 the entire season. Right. And actually, a lot of most features did that too, not like the 10 to 1 cook.

Well, and modern zooms aren't that slow anymore. You know, there's some right fast ones out there. Right. Yeah. This last season, I mean, I operate too. So like by, so I kind of screwed myself. but we use the on the new full frame zoom the easies yeah uh no not the easy it was uh ultra uh it was at 37 to 102 it's a okay okay the two eight and it's great it almost it feels like a prime

especially when you're shooting like full frame yeah so um so yeah we had that and then we have a set of primes too for like if you want to go like really cinematic or whatever whatever i'd say we're getting more atmosphere into it have like these and the paners are They're, like, they're called, I think, prototype VAs. They just get really flary and a lot of atmosphere and stuff like that if you want to. It really depends, like, sometimes a lot of the sketches don't want them to look good. So is it's just not the look we're going for. The biggest thing is just to have a different look on every single, you know, script.

Yeah. Well, that kind of doesn't really make any sense to you as like a C-series anamorphic in an office. No. I would love to try. I think I would be super down. We just live on diopters all day. Yeah. Yeah.

What about the lighting package? Do you kind of like have a basic lighting kit you go by? Or does that end up changing a lot? That changes a lot. At least this past season because I try to just pre-rig as much as possible. And we just don't have, you know, we don't have a rigging team per se. but there's a company Cam that's Chris Galdemez

they own like a shop here in LA and they're able to get ahead on sets. It's like the season one we did no pre-rigging. We just never did. We just rolled in and went and this season we have a little you know we found a little more time and space to be able to get ahead so that as soon as we

landed, we could, you know, start shooting as fast as possible. So that's just a lot. I mean, again, it's all LEDs, you know, it's all esteras. It's all... The tubes? Yeah, and basically the biggest thing is just to have

a dimmer up. Oh, nice. Yeah, they gave, so I made a... I was holding that for way too long when you looked away, so I looked like a fucking idiot, but yeah, good, I did a thing... There's a sponsor right there. Actually, yes.

Not yet, but they, I did this thing with straight. You know, the rental house, Strangel, they're on the west side. But the cool guys, guys and gals. And when the tubes came out, the pixel tubes, the original ones, the X ones, me and the owner of Stray, they have a stage there, just parked a little car on it and did like a process shot with the tubes. And I guess the Astaire people saw that and were like, that's the best thing. And so I was walking through like NAB last year and like the distributor chased me down and and he was like, I love all your stuff. And I was like, I don't think you know who I am. And he goes, no, Kenny, right?

And I was like, what the fuck is this? And you know. And so yeah, I was talking about Sinegear and they might, I guess, let in the can out of the bag a little bit, but they might, they might sponsor. They sure? He wants to. But yeah, fucking everyone. I think that's like those Titan tubes are like, I think every set must have them. They do. I can't imagine not having them. It feels weird to even ask for them anymore.

They're just kind of assumed. It's just assumed, you know. I mean, I think the biggest thing is just to know. I like, I just feel like the dimmer op is such a vital piece to all of it. I mean, I also, having said that, I probably take camera from granted because I just came up with it. So I'm just sure. I'm super natural. I don't feel like I think about it that much. So and lighting is not, you know, something I came up with. So I'm definitely. learning a lot every day about it. But having that dimmer up is just the best thing for speed, I think. Totally. You know, especially now that it's all on the iPad for the most part.

Yeah, or like, I mean, that's the thing, right, with film sets in general, now everything's 2.4 gigahertz, so they just blast everything out. So, like, the Crestons start failing. Oh, sure. Yeah. The phones start messing

everything out. Like, everything, it just turns into this big cluster of wireless. everything. But yeah, they got, yeah, whoever has the strongest signal wins. The audio guys are just like, ha ha, ha. They're still on radio. But there's got to be other bands. How do we only have

what is it? 2.4 or 5.6? That's it. Those are the only two bands we can have? Yeah, well, the Terodex are six, right? The new one is, uh, yeah, that's where everyone's leaving, so that's a good one. And, you know, you can always, on the headsets, you can always go back to the 900 megahertz. Sure. Yeah. One's always

the one's always free waiting for people to hang out. Yeah. What was, I saw on the little thingy when we booked you. What was the other film that you made something else recently?

I don't think I can see. I was not sent a screener of it. Yeah, no, if you want, I can send it to you probably. We're actually premiering tomorrow of Tribeca. Oh, shit. Well, I'm not at Tribeca.

I'm supposed to, in theory, fly out tonight, and I'm hearing their canceling flights, so I don't know. Oh, because of New York, yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, we premiered tomorrow. It was a feature. I shot H.P. Mendoza directed, and we shot it like two years ago in Western Massachusetts. And I interrupted you. It's called the Secret Art of Flight. The Secret Art of Human Flight. human flight yeah um it was great it's just like a you know it's like your very traditional 19 20 day um single camera and it was great what's great what's it a what's it a boot it's um uh so it's about a guy uh basically the uh lead actor is grant rosemeyer and his wife has just passed away and he's dealing with his grief so he hires a uh

He basically hires Paul Racy, who's like this hippie, to help him deal with his grief. But the way he's going to deal with it is by learning how to fly. He has to sort of go through all these different things. And does he fly? Well, and you know what's, I just started giggling a little bit because I know it's like a drama, right? It's like a, yeah, yeah, but it's not it's not like, yeah, it's supposed to be lighthearted. like it is light harder we're not like yeah you're not going to be like crying all all the whole time sure well but what i was going to say was how many of it well what i was

going to say was the reason i started giggling is because that that could be a fucking i think you should leave so like they i think you should leave setups are always like that could be a drama or that could be absolutely fucking ridiculous like yeah absolutely yeah and then the the best part about i think you should leave is that like whatever something happens like that's sort of a very familiar thing as soon as either something happens or something's very top of it like it's that that's the last thing we'll do or they'll like scrap an entire script if it's like too similar to something that's actually happened right because it always just has to be very unexpected and um unpredictable so yeah there uh i know we're coming up on time a little bit so i'll let

let you go in a second but i did i had a couple questions one how many you've mentioned before that uh you've Not a handful, not you personally, but removed some sketches. Uh-huh. At what number? How many sketches do you think no one will ever see? Oh, man. I don't know. If I say that, they'll probably, no, I don't know.

We'll say, everyone, it's over the same number. Over the seasons? I would have to rate 10 over three seasons, things. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Maybe more. I mean, some of them are sort of half, who knows, I wouldn't be surprised if one day

they like took one sketch and cut it into like three or four different pieces or something. I don't know. I feel like everything's yeah. There's a,

I don't know. There's a lot out there. I think that. What was the reason for cutting? I'm just not, didn't hit well or because I imagine if they were still funny,

you could put them on a Blu-ray compilation, you know? I think from what they've told me in speaking to like Tim's act editors. that it there's a certain rhythm to the show so there's a certain rhythm to every single episode

uh and they may feel it may feel super random but they like spend probably as much time curating all the episodes as they do actually cut them and they're super committed to this 15 16 minute you know um time so uh so yeah if it doesn't fit into that rhythm it's not going to make it even if on its own the sketch is great um yeah they just won't they won't do it and i don't i don't know you know i'm not involved in that thing in that process but like it definitely works and oh yeah every one of these there's like is like the mixtape from heaven it's just very i was literally about to say like a curation is so undervalued in today's society i think uh using music as an example like the radio is not

longer curated. That's just the same 40 songs, you know, played in times. Spotify has curated playlist. A lot of times those are bought out. But there's, you know, there's something missing from the individual coming up with something that fit their taste. And then that would, you know, that would kind of show someone who likes some of the things in that playlist or whatever, that, that radio broadcasts. And then they would maybe get some new stuff, you know, so big, big fan of it's all tailored to what you like to listen to now and i get bored yeah and this show that's the thing of this show is it like it's not tailored to anyone yeah you do whatever i mean maybe it's obviously it's tailored to tim and zack but like um yeah they know they they don't they they do what

they want to do which is the greatest i think i think that's the way to i think we're probably going to see more maybe not the absurdity uh although there's probably plenty of absurdity out there But just like, I think for too long in the past like 15, 20 years, we've been trying to narrow down making things for a specific, you know, person or sorry, opposite way, like making something that like everyone will like instead of thinking like, what do I like or what like am I making this for one individual? Because for whatever reason, that seems to be more accessible. Yeah. Because you can identify with a voice. You can't identify with an amorphous idea, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, and that's, like, season one, like, I remember we were working on something anyways. We were prepping at Piano Vision. We went out to lunch, and, like, the day after it came out, there were people already just, like, saying lines from season one, like, just in a restaurant. And it was still pretty, it's still a pretty small, like, niche kind of show. Like, people still don't really watch it on a bigger scale, I think. But, like, yeah, people, it's its own thing, and it's people connect with it. And that's because it doesn't cater to anyone, I think, you know.

I mean, Tim has become one of those like TikTok overlays for fucking everything. You know, him just screw. I didn't, I didn't know none of the shit or whatever. Like, it's, it's weird to see. Because first it was like memes. You would just take a straight image from something in that way. And now it's like people are, you know, it's, I actually find it kind of fascinating how the average person is, is remixing. stuff almost in real time at this point.

Oh, 100%. It is in real time. It's like, God, there's one I saw, I just saw this morning, the Matthew Broderick movie from the 80s. Inspector Gadget. With war games. Oh, sure.

Yeah. Where they put the Eggman cartoon into war games in the trailer. It's so good. It's so well done. It is. has just been out five days or whatever it is 16 yeah do you have a i'm sure you've been asked this a bajillion times but any any uh any of the sketches particularly tickle your fancy i mean i love egg man egg man is hilarious and uh uh probably calico is from season two

the the the p dot yes just because it's just very long and there's super long it just greased a little more you know right i mean on the flip side like you have metal motto in this season which is like I think people are going to, it's going to take a while, but, like, it is so filled. It just hits you every, like, every 15, 20 frames, there's like a new joke. It's just so much going on. It's over, but where, like, Calico is, there's, you know, moments where he's just walking away from you for 10 seconds. So I'm really, yeah, I'm glad they use that entire sketch, one of the few ones, but they use the entire script. I, I enjoyed, my, my girlfriend's been watching a lot of trash television.

her words not mine uh and uh so the zip line sketch hit me uh oh no good because the just because i've been now way too many real housewives and dating shows and shit and so i was just like this i like this this is good did you uh watch it like uh i mean are the other ones that you really liked or uh well i so i will say i was i was kind of bouncing through them but when everyone was like uh i told some of my friends i was going to interview you and they're like ask how the crooner how they do the crooner and I was expecting some weird I was like okay I'll figure it out and then I go watch it and I was like wait a minute

they were doing the bit to me I thought this was like I thought they had like a question about process shots or something but that one is that one's hilarious because it's yeah it's like somebody asked me yesterday like how did they do the how did you shoot the cruder

it's like it's in the script like they literally tell you at times just to make it look fake and then the other time if you don't like I'll say you shoot it Yeah, I guess that's the idea. I mean, like, they're telling, you know. I guess it was weird to me. Maybe they weren't doing the bit.

Maybe they actually were asking because like I was really confusing. The whole show was really confusing. Was it doing it? Yeah. Yeah, you must have had actually about that. You must have had just like a slider on the on the side of the car, right? To kind of. Yeah, flighter dolly.

Yeah. Sometimes we had to over-correct and he can look really fake all of that. Yeah. Tim's anger spray. are like I feel like you could put that in anything and it's just fucking funny like that's a it's a great uh he's and he's really the nicest he never yells oh he he's the anti he's the nicest person at least iver will work with i mean it's crazy so that's right yeah it's always weird to see him yell uh before i let you go I ask the same two

questions but one of them won't make any fucking sense so we'll just bring it down to one at the end of the podcast and that is you know a lot of times people go oh what's the best piece of advice you ever got and i always think like that always ends up being oh stick with it um so what's the worst piece of advice you ever got oh oh i've got a lot of bad oh what is the worst piece of advice or one of the bads if worst really fucks your head up uh probably um to like not make friends that is the worst piece of what I mean, it's very, very, you know, like to, this is from the early mid-aughts, you know, it was like, you know, very much like, we're in the camera department and we run a, run the show.

It's just not the way it works. They, they told you to not, like, not make friends with the rest of the crew. Yeah, or basically, yeah, basically run the shit, you know, and it's like, yeah. That's sort of an approach, you know. It's a different time, too, like, in all of us, you know, fairness, like, back in those days in the film, in the real film days to me, you know, camera people get fired daily. Right. In, you know, in comparison, I almost, you know, you never see people getting fired anymore. Back then, people would get fired just because they looked funny at a certain day or they, yeah, there's like a slight focus buzz when, you know,

like wouldn't even matter and so you really had to like defend yourself um but that didn't translate very well as I guess along career wise and everything like to me the only way to make any of these things friends well and and I feel like that's why we all got into the thing because you know you get together you know you want to make a bunch of friends and and do maybe serious maybe silly projects you know well that was my first thing is on in the cut there's like all those people are so my friends. I was like, this is it.

This is my career because why wouldn't you want to work in this environment, you know? Do you know who, so I interviewed Ari Wegener, but also the production designer. Oh, fuck. He did Lord of the Rings and shit, but I'm blanking on his name right now. But I think he also worked on that film. Grant Major. God, that sounds really familiar. his CV is fucking bonkers and he's just the most nice like casual he did all the Lord of the Rings

okay and he was and he basically him and Jane basically like started the film industry in New Zealand to a well and then Lord of God believe sure but like and he's just been he's had his hand in all these amazing things and he's just kind of like yeah I guess I don't really think about it too hard you're like of course you don't gonna let you go gone a little over time but I'd love to have you back on to talk about whatever else, you know, especially after people can maybe see the short. Next thing you're working on. Are you working on anything else you can say? Uh, no, not really. Uh, here and there, but like, yeah. And also, right now until it comes out. But yeah, no, the secret art we're really proud of. So, like, yeah,

hopefully, uh, it should be distributed this fall. Hopefully it's so I mean, we're all excited about it. Right on, man. Well, uh, keep in touch. Yeah, I don't know. Can touch and everything. Thanks. reference is an owlbot production. It's produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan, and distributed by Pro Video Coalition. As this is an independently funded podcast, we rely on support from listeners like you. So if you'd like to help, you can go to buy me a coffee.com slash frame and ref pod. We really appreciate your support. And as always, thanks for listening. Thank you.