Frame & Reference Podcast - 133: "Criminal Record" DP Laurent Bares

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

Laurent Bares is here this week to talk about his work on the new Apple TV+ show Criminal Record! Laurent became a DP in 1993 and photographed his first feature film in 1996. Since then, he has been behind the camera in more than 500 commercials all around the world and has worked on powerful horror movies (Inside, Frontiers, The Divide), action films (Hitman, Overdrive), and TV shows (Braquo, Crossing Lines, Ransom, Knightfall, Carnival Row). Enjoy! Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.frameandrefpod.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for everything F&R You can directly support Frame & Reference by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Buying Me a Coffee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Frame & Reference is supported by Filmtools and ProVideo Coalition. Filmtools is the West Coast's leading supplier of film equipment. From cameras and lights to grip and expendables, Filmtools has you covered for all your film gear needs. Check out ⁠⁠Filmtools.com⁠⁠ for more. ProVideo Coalition is a top news and reviews site focusing on all things production and post. Check out ⁠⁠ProVideoCoalition.com⁠⁠ for the latest news coming out of the industry.

Hello, and welcome to this, another episode of Frame and Reference. I'm your host, Kenny McMillan, and you're listening to episode 133 with Laurent Barras, DP of Criminal Record. Enjoy. Yeah, I saw, I saw that you went to, uh, was it, is it a pretty prestigious film school and what was it, France? Like it had a whole, it was a whole cinematography school? Yeah, the Eucharie was specifically for the, for the people making cinematography. There was a lot of sections for the photography, but still photography, and another for the song, but from that school by, by example, went out, Philippe Rousseau met a lot of, you know,

I won two Oscars or many, most of the French DOPs. In the past, only an American director like Fred Zimman did it. That's literally, that's very well. They did it just right after the Civil War. Now, it's quite prestigious, you know. I was, I'm not coming from them. The family, my hobby isn't working in the business.

I was naming in the Southwest of France. and you have to pass an exam for entry that school. And it's a national school. It means that you don't pay anything for delegates, which is, but it's excellent. Selection is extremely rude because I remember the first exam, we were in shape like almost 1,500 or 1,500 people tried to end up still. At the end, you are 24.

That's a point. So it was pretty difficult. and I fell up the first time. I did it on my second attempt. I was very young. And for me, it was big, big things because I have to leave my southwest north town to go in Paris along. Nobody was a big deal, but it's okay. So I did it.

Yeah. That was my start. I did it in, no. I went out in 1988. know the century what uh what kind of stuff or what type of person were they looking for back then because i imagine these days especially with the prevalence of you know really nice equipment that you can get that's not too expensive um you know your application short film or real or whatever it might be it could be highly polished whereas back and even when i was in film school film was the

only option unless you wanted to submit something shot on VHS, you know. Story. Oh, I said, sorry, I've barely asked a question. I was just saying, what kind of person was that school looking for? Like, what got you in in that 24? Yeah. Basically, it's very strange, to be honest, because at least when at the end, if I count the people continue the business, well, maybe five, six.

The other totally disappeared. They weren't somewhere else. Because I think when you do such a school at that time, you have to do, I would say, a classic way. You have to be intern, Sagan assistant, fellow assistant, Kramer, and D.O.P and so on and so on. Know that the deal changed totally. You have a lot of people or they're arriving on the business.

They are immediately DOPs, you know what I mean? But which is sometimes a bit complicated because when you start on the Subaltern positions, you have time to learn how worse and set, how, what are the people doing? You know, this is the guy who is the prok. This is, you know, you understand how it works. And sometimes I have the feeling that my young colleague are a little bit confused with it, you know. I'm very attached in my work

to the organization of the world because for me when you understand the DUP is a very strategic position you could

put a mess for everything or make the things happen very well and if you don't have that knowledge if you don't know how to drive the people

and organize your team it could be a total disaster and for me a very part of the job. For example, in the prep, I'm very close to the first aid for the studio. It's important. What do we think? I know basically what he's doing, and know how he works, and how I can help him to do his work. That's point. But when I did it, it was not like that. I mean, when I did a school, it wasn't like that. People want to really to understand how it works and how to do it. And when you

you make the effort to step inside the industry, you have to do all this step before a big camera, the Ope or so. You can do it faster. We did it faster because we have a change. We knew the, I would say, the first technology revolution, which are the telecinema, you know, the grading changed totally because we were shooting in film, but we made the post-editching in Newburgh. And I have to say that I have been lucky to be in that.

that movement because the generation of the OPEB before me was pretty reluctant of that and the open position for young people to step inside and do it and also it was a time when we started to do a lot of video music commercials it was it was helpful for entering in the job that's how I started in the beginning yeah I've noticed that no that's fine yeah yeah great because trust me my brain's all over the place anyway

so every time you answer anything or anyone answers I start taking down notes like I want to talk about that and that but I've noticed that a lot of really established DPs today all got started in that kind of

90s 2000s music video scene that doesn't seem to exist anymore and I've been wondering like for years now, what, you know, what's that new avenue? Or is there not a new avenue? Is it going straight back to, you know, work your way up from assistant or Gaffer or whatever? The problem is, typically, it's not the finality of the overall. You have to work on the street.

That's the most important thing. And to be honest, if I regret of my career, is maybe too much. commercials and too much because you don't learn to do how to drive a story from the baby into years. That's possible with my young colleague now when I have my interns and sister that they read the script which is more difficult because nobody reads anymore. The reader script we talk about that and I try to explain to them that. Read the script. Ask you the question of how I have to do that if I was a DUP or a few, I was a director,

how I'm going to do that and see how the people on the set try to result that question. It's not necessarily the best way to do it, but this is also already an answer. And you were allowed for yourself to drive a storytelling. For me now, making the light, making the framing,

it's the storytelling, only the storytelling. Of course, we want the most beautiful frames, we want more beautiful light. This is very important. But basically, to be honest, if after 30 years or four, I'm not able to find correctly a movie or make light, I'd have to change myself. I don't know. I have to fight with my, like my grandfather, like a great theory or something, something different. You know what is just what is important is to find a way to tell a radio the story,

to understand the intention of everybody. That's another problem. Who got the, who have, who have the power on the set? That's another thing. and to drive this from the beginning to the hand. That's for me the most important things. And because it's in the center, extremely easy to learn the technology because, as you say, all the tools are not so complicated you have

anywhere even with your iPhone, you can do a fantastic thing. You can make fantastic things, you can make fantastic things, you can make a fantastic movie, but it doesn't tell the story. And I regret it. I want to watch other things now. There is many, many shows, many, many, many films. It looks like, piece of that, piece of this,

piece of that, piece of that, piece of this. But there is no complete view of how he's supposed to be. And when you see the big movies, big success, we talk about Autenheimer, for example, or many, you can see there is a strong vision of how to do it. It's not making necessarily a great movie. It makes a movie. It's not make a piece

of movies inside. And in my opinion, there was actually a big problem with the school that nobody teach that. Everybody teach the technique. Everybody teaches story or whatever. Nobody teach that. This is a big, big, big

problem, in my opinion. I have a strong and difficult experience with students recently three four years ago I joined that school to help the student

to make the movie for the end of the years for the end of the years and he was extremely complicated for me to try to convince

them to work in this they just want to do okay that's really nice I want to print it's because of me it doesn't tell the story you should be different no I was to do

okay that's fine and And also, I think I don't want to feel like the old grand people call it. I think that people doesn't read enough. They don't read enough books. They're the reason of

stories. And they're just saw something and they want to reproduce it, which is sometimes limited. That's why I was all. I tried to have different source of a different source of

inspiration, not only in the movies, but also in heart, you can see here, but in the photography, you know, I try to, like, when I start to movie, I make real research about new people, people I don't know, even sometimes in the past, sometimes they are currently working, but this is for me important to have a global vision of that. Yeah, it's interesting because I've noticed something similar. Maybe with students, but at least people learning, especially online, there seems to be a very strong attachment to aesthetic and not what it means. Like the other day I saw a post online where this guy was like, hey, do my photographs look cinematic? And I sat there first and they weren't photographs of anything.

I mean, it was, you know, it looked like a bunch of establishing shots. but I was like, they look nice. You've taken a nice photo, but the cinematography is putting images together to tell a story. So it's very difficult to make a cinematic photo, you know, it's a book. You could make a cinematic photo book, maybe, but it's, it's, it's something to do with that like coloring or whatever. It's, you know, it's harder to have a story. There was a dimension in the movie. It's the editing.

Editing, this is the only specific things hold to the movie. There is no other half. You can say writing a screen could be a book or a play, making cinematography could be pictures and photography or painting or whatever. But editing, it's the things specifically hold to the movie.

So you have to work for that. You don't have to work for yourself. You have to make all the things working together. to make to create and to give the exact feeling that you want to give for the scenes that's the most important thing and uh i think a lot of people so good because you have the feeling that it's just nice frame nice frame nice frame nice frame but when you when you link all together it's a pretty fat you know it's nice but it's flat you know on it so it's very important for me to create this energy, this rhythm in the way I made the show.

For example, it's not necessary to be well-framing all the time. Sometimes it's important to be a bit erratic because it gives the feeling that the character is panicking, you know, all of this. You know, or so there is another question in the movie which is very important. It's the POMV. What is the POV of what do we show? should not. It's the POV.O.4. It's the director of one of the characters, of the viewers, whatever. And all of this question are totally linked with the story. If you don't have

a my idea, a strict idea of how you want to tell the story in the world. I can't tell you do the world. Every day you have the feeling you do the fantastic things when you see the complete editing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Something wrong there. I've said a million times that being an editor or edited stuff, whether it be your own or if you take a job editing, because you know, editing software is pretty accessible now, makes you a better DP 100%. Because you know, it's on any project, because now you know, like what shots you need. I can't tell you how many times of, you know, when I was younger, but still it applies, where you're on a shoot and they just want to cover the hell

out of it. And you're like, I'm telling you, we need three of those shots. We don't need 10. You're not going to use these other eight, you know, that's bad math, seven, whatever. That's why also I tried almost a really, to watch a movie from the 40 or sometimes a silent movie because there has less shooting time. So just a frame, explain everything. Today I was watching a movie about William Weiler for the best years of our lives. And there was a Milan where there was two characters talking. One character is waiting for the bus arriving. He's well in town.

And they are talking, and we see the bus arriving in reflection of the frame, of a store. And the guy, they told me, so you have to go because my bus survived. You see that it goes away, and you just stay on the character, which is a bit desperate to stay alone. It's so much interesting to do this and the rivers and there and so on and so. That is so powerful. That's a very good idea. It's just so simple, extremely nice down. One shot, just a little trekking to show how the rest of the remaining character is desperated.

That's great. That's the things. That's where I try to catch my inspirations. To explain to the director. Maybe you can do live this, you know. The prior now, everybody, a lot of the director are afraid of the DDT because they are not the only person in charge of the shows. You know, there is executive personnel. there is distributor, there is people, there is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So they want to make, what I call the shopping, the shopping for the editing on the set, so they shoot everything, they show there was an alternative of what they want. And sometimes it's a bit frustrating now to say because the result is a compromise, so I see. Yeah. I've been lucky for the last show I did. It's called Criminal Recall because, to be honest, it was the people, was extremely respectful for that. And they respect what we did on the show,

what we did on the set. You know, they don't try over editing or whatever. They were very, very good for it. To be honest, that's very, I have the feeling that you really did the new job, you know. Yeah. Well, I imagine, I've interviewed a couple other people

who have shot Apple TV shows, and it seems like they're pretty, hands off with, like they don't, they just want to see something well made. They're like, yeah, you have fun. Here's some money. Extra respectful. We have conversation with the producers, of course,

with the guy for Apple. We have a conversation, even with me, with extremely respect. And that's great. Yeah. There is not this stupid conversation and say, I don't think there's a world. I need, you need, you want to rate.

As soon as they're happy, they're happy. No story. And I mean, I don't think we have the conversation in prep. They came to visit on the set a couple of times, was very friendly. During, when I did the, when I did the grading, maybe they have one, one note. Nothing, you know, when I'm really nothing, just can we do something for that? Yes, okay, we needed it for something like 15 seconds to do it. And that's it.

It was great. I was, right. I was, it was a very, very, very, very, very, very successful and joyful, the cooperation. Yeah. I was very happy. It was very nice. I, I, I did, I will get to the show in a minute, but I did want to ask because you'd brought it up a couple times. I think one of the, you'd kind of said that they don't really teach it to you in school, and I agree.

Being a good leader on set is something you end up having. learn. And I think coming up through the ranks, I did not come up through the ranks. I kind of just stumbled my way into BDP. And one thing that I feel like I was lucky enough to have happened to me is I took on all these other ventures in my life that put me in leadership roles and I failed miserably and all of them. So I learned, not quickly, but I learned what makes, at least what makes a bad leader, you know, what, what things I couldn't get away with. than how and how people will not want to work with you if you do X, Y, Z. And I was wondering kind of how you run your sets and how you get people on your side and create that collaborative environment where people want to do what you want and don't want to push their narrative. I'm going to support you first because I don't think that people are watching a show because of the lines.

You have to read the dark, you know, the people are watching the show. because of the actors in the story. So you have to understand that actors on the set helps to be comfortable and happy to come and happy to make the job. That's my first thing. So when I started job in prayer, I always ask to talk with the main artists,

just have a quick conversation, how do you want to work, whatever, you know, sometime, for example, I work with the last Sutherland and I ask him, okay, what can I do for you? He said, when there is a seat, face to face, I want to be the second. Okay, so

I know that. I organize myself to give me that. You know what I mean? That's the first part. When the actors are happy on the set, it's very nice. Of course, the director. The director has to be happy when he knows and so. But the prep is important when you cannot broke it. Because

making a movie is a process, is a life process. You know, what is your sure in prep is going to happen like this when you're having it. It's a little bit different. You have to give also for everybody, artists, directors, for yourself also, a small space to change the thing. You know what I mean? This is important that not broke it, not a feeling that, oh, my God, I'm wrong, but have to do it because I can mess with it.

You know, and what I said to the director, I don't want you to leave the set of frustration. I want you to leave a set with the feeling that you have everything. Of course, some time has happened, but to be honest, we try to organize everything for that. With my crew, I try to explain then that. Also, it means that they have to be attentive or what's going on. It's not supposed to be the guy arriving with the cold shit. I say, okay, we do that. We said that the camera, that's the time I'm wait.

So I ask them to be attentive for the real souls, to be sure what's going on. So we plan to do that. And suddenly, they see that the actors are moving a different way, instead of being crossed to the windows they prefer to move in the middle of the room so also has to adapt it so this is when we finish that when we finish the real song

when we know basically where we're all we change our mind or not sometimes it's what we plan we do it and I give to myself you know time for the last shakeup and so on for the actions I give to myself 10, 50 minutes just to quickly

change a little bit of phase ever, a nautilada, something different, done, and then we shoot. And why we shoot? When we start, we shoot, you'll be a rig, you'll be sure to be shot. You cannot make us a take and say, also react to change something. It doesn't work like that.

No, I mean, but for the actors, it's terrible because they gave you something and you just say, no, we have to do it for different, for a technique card. So what I did is not good. No, no, it's good. So they don't believe you. Where they don't believe you, they start to doubt. When they start to doubt, that's created problem

that are not completely you know what I mean this is the deal you have to with their actors of course sometimes you have some problem happens

you get in light blow out or the camera doesn't work whatever so that time but most of the time you have to be ready

you have to be with them you have to be with them rhythm you have to work with them with the director of course that's that's a point when word is like this basically

it's not so bad But to be comfortable at that moment, you have to make a strong prep, strong prep, very important, to try to imagine what could happen was the strong scouting. You have to know exactly the place you are, you know, because if there is something wrong and suddenly you're supposed to shit like this, but they want to shit on the other side, you have to quit it, you know, okay, if we do it a little bit, this is this. But if she discover, you know, on that thing, it's going to be a disaster. you know, to be very prepared for all the opportunities, all the change.

And that's it. So as soon as the people feel that you're on their side, you help them, you welcome them, you are warm with it, you know what they do. You have able to understand all the seeds. Sometimes it's more difficult for me when it's in English, but I can't remember the dialogue, the lights, you know, I know because at that time I know that curator says that that's very important maybe we can trick it these characters that or try to make some

some elize so maybe we can treat this a bit differently and so this is helpful a lot of the actors because they have the thing that you understand what you work with them and and everybody is quite happy with that you know when they start to trust you when when you establish this relationship it's okay no problem or not you know whenever it's that Copicate, no complicate, difficult, whatever. It's okay.

It's okay. Trust you. It needs to trust you, you know. You have to, I had made one experience when it was cool, we made an exercise with all the, all the, all the, all the position on the, on the set. When I was in front of the camera as an actor, I never suffered so much than that day, it was turned from. He was so full. And when you see yourself on the screen, said, my God. Never again.

But you have to understand that the artist, they play there, there are 20 people looking at them like this. It's extremely stressful, and you have to make them comfortable. It's very important. This is a lot. This is something we talk with my crew all the time. When I worked in the UK, I have a fantastic crew for that. There are a very open mind with this, and this is something very, very, very nice. Yeah. Well, into your first point about, you know, the people are here to watch the actors, I will say the reason I started watching Criminal Record was because I'm a big fan of Peter Capaldi, and I heard him do a podcast and he was like, oh, I have a new show. And I was like, oh, and then I just went and started watching it. And I was like, oh, the show looks good. I should text that guy.

No, Peter, Peter is a great actor. Oh, it's incredible. It's very very well with this. I just won't believe it. because he did that when he was young he did the movie the dangerous and they shot it in Paris and this is when I was about to finish

my school time and I went for the first time of my life on the set he was there but I didn't know him at that time nobody knows he I didn't remember that and recently

there was few months I was watching the movies and I said but that's It's pure. I was there. I was there where you shoot does. Oh, that's crazy. That's fantastic. But Peter, you know, Peter is a director. You know that he won an Oscar for director a short movie. He did an Oscar for that. Nobody knows that. He did. Wow.

Yes, yes. You have to know that. So he's a director. He's an actus. And he's extremely famous. I didn't realize how much he was famous because in France, nobody knows Dr. Wu. when you're in London, when you walk in the street, everybody knows in, everybody. It's crazy. It's a leisure in here, you know.

And Peter was somebody where, you know, somebody who watched everything. He knows everything. He knows. He knows the set. He'll catch everything immediately. So if you're wrong with him, you're wrong with him.

Yeah. You cannot. It's straight. You have to tell him what you want. You have to explain. And in front of him, of him. There was Ketch. Kitchinburne was fantastic, a huge of energy, a great actress. Yeah. We know she did, she did Amleck as a woman. She did Amelette. Or she's doing

baby Mikez. She's a great artist. And on that show, the meeting went out together, fighting together. It was so easy for us. You know, I think that's crazy. That's so good. So it's so enthusiastic. You are just to follow in, to help it, to make the, to make the things better as you can. But instead, everything is there. It was in our hands and that it's so beautifully. It was so, it was so fantastic to work with them. So easy. Yeah. The one thing that comes to mind immediately about the way you shot the show is you've got what feels like every location in London. Like, it feels like you shot everywhere. And you made all the locations look not only the same in terms of like, you know, cohesive, but also incredibly natural whilst you have this like kind of soft contrast thing going on everywhere that I really enjoy. And I was wondering kind of what your process was getting those locations to look their best and how you kept that look consistent in so many different places, especially outdoors, unless you were just given, you know, overcast days all day.

So that was one of the first conversation I had with the showrunner, Boroughman. You was very attached to see, to show a London that basically nobody shoots, you know. A lot of movie happens in London, you have the tourist sports, you know, all the classic things and so. And we would like to show something a bit different. So we started to shoot in the east and the south east of London, which is basically where we heard and we spend

during the prep to find the best best places for a lot but you have to know that shooting in London is also a bit complicated because you know to organize the shooting

having all the circus trailers so it costs a lot of money you have to sign the place you have to organize so you cannot change like this in France it's much more easy

I came from a different way to make a movie so in Paris oh it's nice shoot that we don't have the permission. We don't care of the children. It doesn't, I think it isn't, but possible. So when you plan toward that, you have to be very strict in your choice

and to be sure that what you choose is a good place. So that was the first thing. When we work with Matlaine, the location manager, when you have the permission to shoot in the place we want, of course, where I was counting, with director, but for me is not enough. Because when you go with all the crew, you know, you don't have time to just show that you, but this, this.

Because I'm not living in London, during the weekend I was boring. So I was by myself going to that place, and I investigated, turn around, to find the best angle, to go a different time of the day in the morning, in the afternoon, and sometime in the evening or in the night to see how it's already depleted or not. And I make a lot of pictures. And I organize these pictures on the wall to show to Jim. Maybe we can do that.

If you remember at the beginning, you have these things in the phone booth, the phone booth when she talked. And I chose, I went there to choose specifically that place because in the background, you can see the towers and so. But this is because I spend a lot of time there walking there. I say, okay, that's a good place. I take a picture. Then I drew on the phone booth. If we put it there, it could worse. we can that. That's, for me, it's extremely important, extremely important to find

the way, how the actors are moving, where they go through us, what, what, you see, what is the Bible, with the light, and so on and so on. We sometimes wish it some places. There is a conversation, the concussion, a cellar of mobile, so on, and we, we knew a little bit is a sense to put it in the perspective of the street, so you can see, I think it's Kinsland Road. You can see all the street until Carnary World. The place, the park was the kids

is killing your house, you know, on the background, you're all Canary War. So this is very, very, for me, I mean, if you don't do that, you don't have the movie, it's ridiculous. You don't want to read it. It's a war, you know, you're feeling that you shoot there

because it was easy to shoot. And the, the certain things is how to show the things. and the things doesn't have to be too much important you know they have to be behind the artists

but not too much and I was I was I found the picture of the English photographer called

Dan McHulin was a war reporter and before to be a war reporter he did a lot of picture in Liverpool and he was specialized by the, I would say, the derelict places,

the world and those poor people and so. And I was appreciate a lot of the way he did it because you're a little bit, you know, a little bit far away from the location, so you can see, not to close. And he had also a great distance between the people on his pictures and the background. And just in one picture, you understand where you are,

the situation, what's happened, behind what's going on, you understand there is a back story of that. Immediately. That's the cinematic scene. That's the same thing. But Don McElean is a great photograph film. It's not well, not in shipping more, much more. And this picture was a great inspiration for me because it was English, which is important,

because we are shooting in launch or you know that. And also that, that distance for the characters. for the character and so on. And it was very helpful. And I really be inspired by this. We never, by example, we never use huge wide, wide angle. I prefer to get back in a bit and make it a lens a bit longer, you know, because the background

come back behind there, you see them. And one of this, and also we try to be logic every time, well, the same approach for all the location. Even if they're different, well, the feeling that you are, you know, space, a logical space, you know. Every day, everything looks on the same place. Because sometimes when you're seeing a movie, you have a feeling that's, okay, that location, it was like a sci-fi, this one looks like a Korean movie,

it's a bit disturbing. There, when you have that feeling, when you, know how exactly how to organize your frame. You have a continuity in the storytelling. There is never a breath. No, I mean, there is always the same people living in the same place and you tell the same story. That's what.

And the other things, you know, the other change were, we built in the studio, the interior, the apartment from the town and so on. And I don't want that to look like, this is studio, you know, so I start to create some defaults. in the frame, to pretend to be realistic and not realistic in the same time. So this is,

the balance between exterior and studio was very difficult and very interesting to, if you see the corridor between the lift and the apartment, it's under the lid because when you go in that place, sometimes there was missing, missing gloves, they're missing like that,

so make it so be grimy, you know, that's, that's, That's great guarantee, but it's also a way to make a real, I mean, for me, a real job of cinema, that's my point of it. Yeah. What, were you shooting, I'm just guessing, but were you shooting on like, L.F, were you shooting large format?

So, so, were you shooting full frame or like RELF or what was the camera? A full frame, yeah. It had that very kind of smooth, or not smooth, like, like, plastic. but just something about, I always subscribe to the idea that full frame cameras don't have an inherent look, but I will say that larger sensors do kind of give a very nice gradient to the image, like even especially on faces, you know, where it's not, the contrast seems to roll off in a much nicer way inherently, you know, because you can obviously see that. Yeah, that's a very important.

Photogeny, I suppose, is very important. And we have a lot of things So you have to be perfect Yeah To be honest, you have to be perfect on faces Because otherwise, that's a fucking man Yeah, because he will And as you notice

Peter doesn't have the same face than Kirsch, that was totally different And he was challenging for me to have, you know, to restrict them and to have the same same light which was, but he was very interesting because there was not so much compromise. When we did the test, I make a couple of, you know, I tried different direction, different contrast, different division, different ways to write it quickly. It was quite interesting to see how you see the character arriving in the way you lied. So sometimes, sometimes I have to make it a little different.

Even though face-to-face, they put the front of there, nobody noticed this. Because the way I, I hope that the way I lead them was according their character, not according to the personality normally. And they understood that immediately. It was very funny for me to see when we prep the set for it. When they arrived, Peter goes where he's supposed to be. Kersh goes where she was supposed to be. They're never confused.

You know what I mean? They catch that immediately. That's the thing you can have the feeling that it works. You work, works. Because people understand what you want to do. You know what I mean? And there was no discussion about you sure you should light like me and you should. There was, you see, oh, yeah, I'm a thing like I should be there.

Yes, yes, it's your press. I should be a yes, she, question. That was so natural, I say that was very, very, you know. There was a great satisfaction. And, you know, the inter-acistration, you're beyond your frenzy. Did you, what was your kind of approach to lighting? We're using a lot of like kind of larger, you know, eight-bys all over the place. Because like I said, it has this kind of softness to it while still being very contrast.

And I was wondering if you were kind of relying on, you know, just window light coming in oftentimes? or were sources kind of bigger, smaller, a lot of LED? It's, it's the irony. The thing you're shooting in London is not Los Angeles. And you don't know the Vivaldi days with the four systems in the same age, you know. It's like hovercast, then the southern, and it's raining that it's holocaut. And sometimes it's snow in the evening. That's the point.

So sometimes it's sophisticated. So you have to degrade it. We have many locations. with windows and so on so we try to organize online that it could happen it could happen

means that you have to project for the sun or you have to be ready for us that's the first thing the second things when the people are inside

is the crescent Jones' house Begotti's house exterior is not important this is the moment they are inside side. You know what I mean? They fight against this. In external, they are on the, on the ceiling, on the scene crime, there are throwing a peopers, they are investigated. That's

different. Right. While they are inside, we're like to, to lose a little bit what's going on outside. Except when it's important in the story, we have a couple of mother. For example, with Joe, when she's home, she sees there was a guy of a political. person is supposed to protect her, but in fact, she's watching her, this is fire. That's not so much. It's important to see that. But not so much. My feeling that they are inside, this is the moment, they have strong conversation, strong fight between June and the husband, June and Havati, or they are thinking about what's going on, you know. That's another, that's another dimension of the show. When you make an investigation, you, your mind is

traveling, you make mistakes, you get by because you think this is good, but not you come back. It looks like a car, the movement of camera, you know what I mean? So somebody is thinking, you find an idea, you can tracking, you

try it, you have to give an idea that you go inside their mind and you catch what they're thinking, what they do. And that's very important because this is when the viewers, the The spectators are very close to the car.

It's, you know, they understand what's going on, you know, one of it. And this is extremely important to be in exactly in the same rhythm than the people who are watching the show. And at that time, the rhythm of the camera, the tracking, it's the distance also is very, very, very, very. That was something like really large. And then that's the things we have to see. So sometimes that's in us to, to them. let's read a place with different ways I'm of tracking with this, you know, and the editing will be much better. Sometimes you don't know, you have to be careful, not be so short.

But it works. I mean, basically, when she started to make an investigation and so on and so on, you have the feeling you always are. That's fun. I did notice, I seem to have written it here. There is like a really good selection of when to use handheld and when do you support. because at first I was sitting there thinking like oh this whole show's handheld and then when I started paying attention I was like no no it's not there's plenty of like tripods and you know jib arms or whatever

you know walkoffs and yeah just to your point like it's uh that's something I always tend to forget because in my head I'm like it's one or the other for some reason you mean the handhelds yeah for some reason in my head I'm always just like If you're going to go handheld, it's got to be for, like, the whole show or it'll be jarring and it's not.

That's... That's... handheld, it's nice sometimes. Yeah. Not every time. So, because a lot of directors think that since it has held, it's reality, it's in its good, buddhism, and so on and so on. Where I some time it's open, yeah. I'm sure it's very important to our days, but sometimes it's a bit of a cliche, right?

I would say. And I love to mix. I love to mix. And we have a couple of CNAL, but not so much. And we have one. Not so much. Even in the Stiti Camp, we don't have a lot of Sticamp. We have the Patmon State of Steelers. We are much more on track and on the tribe. It's from, you know, I was a suggest. Did you? Did you? I just thought about this, because when I was in film school, they were like, this is when punk rock started and started showing us all these French new wave films. Was that a part of your education? Did you care about that? Or was it more punk rock to not do the... About French people. Yeah. I figured... I was born in one country for me. I know, of course, I feel very well the French cinema. Of course. But to be honest, I've always been attracted by the American and English moving at that's a point. Yes, but you know, the new wave style came because the people doesn't have money. So, for example, when they shoot in the cars and put the actors, they're driving, the camera behind.

That's it. We plan totally differently on that. in claim I recall we have a little volume with LED LED screens and we shared it there was much more compatible which because also it's economically more reasonable

because it had in the shoot in London in the night with a car with the loader and so and it's just complicated and you don't have time to do this it's simple the first thing is in driving in a car in my If you have to shoot it, in real, he will say it's, I don't know, they're nice.

Yeah. I think this is interesting, reason, because I think that when I do that, when I work in the England or sometimes, I did maybe a couple of commercial in America, which is different, but they work with American people in Prague. They're always surprised because there are aspects of some French guy. ring, you know, things. But I think that, but I think, you know, where I work, and particularly in the way, I, I, I, I, I, I, I try to understand the meaning of the show where the, the, under, the, under, the, under, the, under, the, under, the, under, the, under, the, and the, it's a very French. And it's a very French way. We, we're a civilization of poker, we, we, we, or, or, or, our movie, everybody talks, and you, it's impossible.

Just a graphic movie doesn't exist in France except a couple of others directly, just people talking, talking, talking, talking, that's why we're our films. But that's important. I know that, this is my culture. But when I mix it with the, I would say, Anglo-Saxon way to do it.

I hope it gives something a little bit different. It gives something a bit of a rich. But because you cannot forget the world. you were bored in the post but it's it's the being next to me

also the French cinema it's the way to shoot it's more spontaneous that's sometime

when I try to organize set where we talk about it's not blocks

you know because sometimes I I saw that in some American movie particularly

when the block I saw when I was on focused on the

idea the commercials, when you have an American new business. That's it. This is how we shoot it. That's it. That's it. Which is extremely shocking for French. Because in French, the director is good.

And the other, okay, in America, it's different. Producer is God. And the people on the set, the OPE is extremely important because it drives show, who is the first 80? And I was supplied that. I saw, for example, the runs against down on the French. He watched not on the set. just arriving from his trailer just to say,

Motter, let's go shooting and rolling, and that's it, they go away. And then Owen Reisman set up all the hopper's it. Without him, I was, wow, not the usual. The director is already there, you know, it's very different. I respect deeply the director, of course,

but I learn also to talk with the producers with the script writer or so in America, which are very well. Most of the executive producers, so they have an idea how to do the show. And it's very different. And I love to be honest with the mix. I love the mix. And I think when the producer of also, my way is sometimes to work because I'm very

involved in the storytelling, in a way to tell the story. That's came for, I have a long conversation with Philip Oswald. I met him in Prague. And he explained me that. I was just about to do a show called Crossing Line Twist. It's interesting. I learned a lot in Crossing Line. That's why he was very important for me.

And with Philip, explain me how he was. I telling me, Philip, I knew you when I have been his focus, not as focused, but he's going to 80 on a couple of commercials. And you do a Robert Redford movie. How are you bad that? You come from French movies and you find it you were with Robert Ford. And they explain me how different was it, how it, how he brings a French original antique, French, different, you know, we used a lot of Chinese war at the time. It was not so often. So he created that. And then people love that because it was light, it was nice, it was beautiful. So, you know, he brings some, that's high. That's high. I hope he can sometimes bring on the, on the stats on a little different, something different. I'm not a fetishist of the equipment.

I don't care. I can do it with nothing, if it's the story. I can do it with all as equipment. I have no religion. For me, I never read my previous equipment list or whatever. I don't care. Every time I start from scratch, because I think that every movie has these home true.

we have to find how to do it we should reach equipment and organize everything that's the story of the story of that project you know I always find that these days I'm trying to like I do a lot of

like corporate interview stuff because it pays well and of course we don't worry I did it too yeah but you know there's definitely like a formula to that lighting, you know, that people tend to like. And just every time I do a new one, I'm always like, all right, how can I bring less equipment

to this? How can I get, how can I get away with like one keynote flow and like, you know, one of these like brick lights, you know? I remember when the numeric starts in France, most of the producer was fantastic. We don't need light anymore. Yeah. Yeah, all the line producers are like, thank you. yeah just get me

one keynote flow 360 or sky panel 360 that's it on the story I did see this is oh I did want to add I know you brought up not really caring about here

but I did want to ask about the lens package on the show because it again I really enjoyed the look of it and it didn't seem more of the like signature primes or something it was the Suprems Supreme Prime Primes.

They look great. It was very great. There are. To be honest, okay, I have to be honest. So I was watching a show called Zupakral. Oh, sure. Yeah. Adrialkal.

Yeah, and I was extremely, you know, the Russian ship was the over-exposed light in the carter's was fantastic. And I noticed that. I call my focus pool in England and said, do you know people who did that? Because I'll actually go

what lens they used. So we make an investigation and a day after he called me so they use the secret. So okay, let's try to do it

and we use the let's use the let's check how he works and make some tests and he was fantastic. To be honest that and that

that lens was perfect for our records because there was a kind of stylization you know he makes it's a style

a little bit cinematic as you said but also he keeps a realistic you know you are in the between

and I think he was exactly what I was looking for for that show which we don't want to be extremely realistic

just realistic realism is a little bit the style of the people doesn't have to be last right we want to make

the stylations and and to tell the story, to bring a strong story inside this realistic place. The Suprems was, for me, a fantastic, not compromised,

it was the really good choice. I was engaging to realize with the female. You know, the crime. But, okay, that was my first ID. But when I saw the Supreme, said, okay,

this is good. which was also much more easy for the people because it's not so big because it could be able to be massive and then it's okay for me it was in that I was totally convinced I was for that store it's a good yeah and I also think too like a lot of kind of to your point a lot of that those rehoused lenses either are too big or too small which sometimes you obviously do want a small lens but um I think that built-in character was fun for a while, you know, like your, what are the K-35s or whatever, you know, those are incredibly popular or even the Cook S-4s, obviously. But I think just getting like

a very clean image and then hitting it in post with whatever you want to do tends to kind of be the move now. Yeah. Obviously, it's too much. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's project dependent, but. You had some plan there was so much flurry little. Is that the actors or some places? That's, uh, I think that people make them feel happy, but they're forward that the viewers sometimes in, what's good, it's got fun, then?

Right. And, uh, I was, uh, I was, uh, You know. Yeah, it's the whole thing. It's very strange the movie. They won't be the movie business because you spend the time to go. We have such high technology.

The tools were actually extraordinary, you know. And there was always people try to find something. Right. The threat of the only destroy this separation because they need to do something. Again, for me, it's another way to, to escape to the storytelling. You know, you make such a sensation

that you have the feeling you make your job. No, you make sure to tell the story. That's the most important. My opinion. Well, it is kind of interesting because we as filmmakers, there's like two sides of making the movie. There's the side that you feel you need to do

or want to do as the artist. You know, when you think, oh, like I said, like K-35s, look, it's this look and you get real attached to this idea that you are going to express your internal monologue with the audience and then there's the other side of it which is you're making something for an audience you know that some people go to really nice restaurants to have the dish prepared in the chef's way most people just go to a regular restaurant because they want you know chicken carbunar or whatever yeah that's that's yeah the thing is how

what exactly is your position in the set? Where is the piece of master? Where is the masterpiece? Is it the movie or is it the same much of life? That's the point.

You know, I saw a cyberography is a part of the master's list, of course. You have many, many films. You can see it that the work of the DOP is fantastic. You made the show which will be against us.

That's great. That's what we have to do. That's why we try to do every time. But you're not the only one of us. You're not the army one, you know. Again, nobody is watching a movie because the people want to see a movie because the novel story, love the artists, love the way, the emotion from the movie. And our job is to make the emotion big-ass perfect.

That's the point. Emotion could be comedy, could be making people laughing. When you make a comedy, your job is to make it funny, not to make it stupid, you know what I mean? Yeah. You have to... A client has been still on the show, not somebody broke because I was... Black Night, you know, and that's really important.

Very, very important. You have to know where you are. You have to know why it's your position. You have a strong position. Basically, you have a strong position in the set. Because, again, you're in the middle of everything. That's the baby. And because you're in the middle of the team of everything,

you have to make it acceptable for everybody and to make the show working. That's a point. And then you have a different level of making working. You have the basic. Or you can heighten your level, you work, your work and make it more beautiful,

more interesting, more emotional. You know, when the things are beautiful and water you all, it's very emotional. It's in conscience. But it's true. That's not exist.

Yeah. What, speaking of the beauty of it, what was the process on the TV show coloring the thing? Did you make that look, that kind of cool? icy blue kind of look in reproduction or did you kind of find that in the grade later now I never do it in now I never change the things and strongly in post-plutish

for one reason when the people are walking many weeks many months on the editing I mean director they're editor producers they watch it they're rewatch it they were watching they love us because it works hardly on the on the freight When you are arriving on the, when you're arriving on the on the population, the greater, you say, you know what? I'm going to change it. They're never once. They never once. Because for them, this is the identity of the show. So we have to give the, that's the official on the show, on the set. Basically, you have to do, I would say, 80% 75% of the worst on the set. You have to be there. Otherwise, it's a disaster. You will front of many, many, many, need. discussion, many, many problems, many fights, you know, that's important. That's important thing. When you make a greeting, people are afraid about the country, it's the most easy, easy things to do.

Continuity normalization, not so stupid person, you should do it basically on the set. It's not so complicated. What you do on the grading, and this is where you have a great colorist or not. It's to make it create, to make it coherent, just to give a feeling that everything thing goes easily. And everything is in details. It's, you know, the relationship between the artists and the background. As you say, the faces and, you know, what the blue, the blue, the blue is already delicate. And you keep it dust for all the show. And another thing, which is very important, I always, they thought to the, to the, to the chorus, but I agree. Gritting is a life

things. When you start, it's a process, it's a life process. Then you start, you, you do it's well. It's clean. And then slowly and slowly it change. It change. And after a couple of days, you have to realize that you are where you want to be. So you have to restart the beginning and a bit to adjust where you want to be. And the other thing. And the last thing, which is against production tendencies on time, you have to be there in the, in the, in the, in the room. You have to be in the room with the courieries. Because when you have a screen, a different screen on it, it's a different feeling. Whatever is the screen. When you watch the seeds, you remember the circumstances when you shoot it. You know that at that time the sun was that, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So you drive in, say, be careful because of the hand, blah, blah, blah. And then you, you heard such a huge time. you save a lot of time for that and make it much more comfortable for everybody and it's for me very the greeting is very important I really love that and you have to establish

a strong relationship on that show I was working on Andrew Daniels we did all quite on the Western Front That's a great listen show It's a great collaboration and he was fantastic We have, we enjoy to work together very well.

It was, you know, it was easy. He asked the good questions. You know, he said, when do you think about that? The proposition was, all of them was acceptable. Sometimes I said, oh, maybe yes, maybe not. But always on the good, on the good, on the good, on the good feeling, you know. Because sometimes you have a correlation down, there's telling you or something, you say, what?

No, no, no, no, no, I don't want this. You know, yeah, this is not beautiful. Andrew is extremely respectful of the storytelling for what the works done and he keeps the light it was great I spent a few times

I think some scene for our time four days or something like I don't remember but it was very nice very great and positive

I really enjoyed at least when we showed the results to help all the aperture I'll tell you a couple of knots nothing so everybody was

happy done Now, that's it. Andrew is a great colorist. That's a great. That's a great problem. I do. I will say I want to at some point have a colorist week or colorist month where I just interview a bunch of colors.

Like I have Jill Boganovitch's info, but you know, she's very busy. But I'm trying to get like a list of colorists that I could interview and just have a bunch of episodes of the podcast with just colorists. he'd be a great one. You should. Yeah, you should. He's a great person and he's very smart. I will. For want his email.

Yeah, no, please. Yeah, I'll hit him up if you can. But I know, you know, it's a little later for you and I actually have another interview coming up here in a little bit. So I'm going to have to let you go. But yeah, thanks a lot for chatting with you, man. That was very, very interesting and educational. Thank you.

See you soon. Frame and References in Albot production. produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan, and distributed by Pro Video Coalition. If you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can go to frame and refpod.com and follow the link to buy me a coffee. It's always appreciated, and as always, thanks for listening. Thank you.