Frame & Reference Podcast - 148: "Bridgerton" Season 3 DP Alicia Robbins

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

Sorry for the delay (I was traveling for work) but this week we're lucky enough to have Alicia Robbins on the program to talk about her work on Bridgerton Season 3! Enjoy! Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠��⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.frameandrefpod.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for everything F&R ⁠You can now support Frame & Reference directly on Patreon!⁠ Frame & Reference is supported by Filmtools and ProVideo Coalition. Filmtools is the West Coast's leading supplier of film equipment. From cameras and lights to grip and expendables, Filmtools has you covered for all your film gear needs. Check out ⁠⁠Filmtools.com⁠⁠ for more. ProVideo Coalition is a top news and reviews site focusing on all things production and post. Check out ⁠⁠ProVideoCoalition.com⁠⁠ for the latest news coming out of the industry.

Hey everyone, Kenny here. Right before the show, I just wanted to mention that we have a Patreon now. So if you want to get the episodes week early, I'll let everyone know who I'm going to interview before I do it so you can ask questions. You get a little sticker pack. A few other things, just a way to personally support the show if you feel so inclined. So that's patreon.com slash frame and ref pod. Really appreciate it if you do end up doing that or not. Doesn't matter this podcast will always be free. Secondly, we had a few technical. technical issues in this episode, Zoom was really acting up. So you kind of hear a couple weird like subject shifts or doesn't sound like normal. It's that. Sometimes there's a few crashes.

My internet was really acting up. Anyway, that's it for me. Please enjoy the show. Hello, and welcome to this, another episode of Frame and Reference. I'm your host, Kenny McMillan, and you're listening to Episode 148 with Alicia Robbins, DP of Bridgerton Season 3. Enjoy. It's amazing how the pandemic brought Zoom to the forefront of, like, all the video conferencing we do now is basically Zoom. had. What was the one that we all used to use? Well, FaceTime was the thing. Well, no, but the, the computer one. Oh, it was the only one. Oh, no. I mean, I've done Google Meet. Yeah. No. Skype. Skype. Oh, my gosh. How do I forget that? Or Skype.

Where did Skype go? It is. I don't know. They had such an opportunity. Skype might be the Blackberry of video conferencing. Oh, my Blackberry. Yeah. I loved my Blackberry, too. I still have my, whatever it was, like 2830 or the, you know, just the standard one. No, I got rid of all of mine, but I'm not an iPhone user anyway, so. Me neither. I knew that actually about you. I'd heard you mentioned that you're, oh, yeah, I have a Samsung phone. Yeah, I got that, I got that pixel. I do, did you, with what you heard, was it talking, me talking about wanting to do, write an article about having an iPhone? I don't think so, no. It just came up in a conversation, you're just saying, well, I don't have, I'm not really using Apple

anyway or something like that. Yeah. So my idea is work as a, you know, freelancer, does owning an iPhone affect your job prospects? Because I know, I do know people who will literally get a green bubble and their immediate thought is, oh, this person is going to, there's going to be friction. I'm not going to be able to work with them as easily. Not like on me personally, but just that first, you know, like first impressions being the thing, that that very first chat coming up green, they go, okay. Wait, does it show something different if it's coming from an Android on an iPhone? Yeah.

And I, and the, the main thing that they, all the iPhone people love is I message, which ostensibly doesn't matter. But you do, you are able, because it's over Wi-Fi, essentially, you're able to transmit like videos and photo in full. WhatsApp. I use WhatsApp for. Well, you've probably worked. with people out of the country and stuff.

Most people don't use it at all. I love WhatsApp. It's fantastic. I wish more people would use it. Yeah. I message is Apple's WhatsApp. Almost exactly. Ah, I see.

Yeah. So whereas if you and I text someone with an iPhone here, it's regular SMS as if we were in high school. So. Oh my gosh. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. I mean, my text and going, oh, not an iPhone.

So this is going to be hard. Yeah. Well, or like you'll be on set and someone will be like, all right, we're moving locations. And again, this is like low budget free. And they do the Apple Maps pin drop. Yeah. And then they're like, did you get it? And I'm like, no, use it.

No, you should use Google Maps anyway. I'm sorry. Like an adult. It's great. You just do the whole podcast just about. Frustrations. Yeah. Well, apparently I will say, apparently Apple has been harangued enough that they're going to

implement. Like, if I text you. There's like a standard where we can share like full-size videos, full-size photos, whatever. That's open source. Any company can use RCS, it's called. And so I guess Apple is going to be implementing that, which should smooth things out. It should. Because it's not like the rest of the world doesn't all use Apple.

Yeah, no, America's, I think I was studying this before I had the idea. I think iPhone implementation in the U.S. is like 90%. And the rest of the world, it's like 10 to 15. Yeah. It's a uniquely American problem. Yeah. Yeah. Especially in L.A.

Yeah. You're right. Especially in L.A. I know it's very rare when I meet another Android user. Yeah. You get excited. Like, oh, I get so excited. I feel like Android users are the nerds, though.

Yeah. Well, yeah, I grew up, you know, building my own computers and shit. So that's why. You want to be able to build. your own phone the way you want it. Yeah. Like for one thing, all right, this is just going to be the iPhone hate. The, uh, being able to put apps wherever you want.

Yes. Like how come, why does it all get stuffed in the upper left on the iPhone? Because I have an iPad every once in a while. Yes, I know, because I have an iPad too. And I have a Mac, but I have a Samsung phone. And I have a PC tower too. So I'm kind of all over the place.

Yeah. But yeah, that was the, I tried to get an iPhone. Sorry, we will talk at some point. It's fine. I agree. But I tried to get an iPhone because I thought, okay, I don't know. Maybe I should join the rest of the world and see how it goes. Yeah.

And I got an iPhone and my husband was making fun of me. He was like, you're going to hate it. I know you're going to hate it because he's a Samsung user too or Android. And I'm like, well, let me just try it. Let me see how it goes. And by the end of the day, because I'm trying to make it do what I want it to do. Yeah. And by the end of the day, I was.

so tired and all I wanted to do was just set an alarm for the next morning and it started pushing me through this whole like sleep app and da da da da and I couldn't just go to a clock and set an alarm and I literally started to cry and my husband is like okay this phone brought you to tears can you please just go return it tomorrow and get another Samsung this is ridiculous so I did I returned it the next day, I have one day. That's fucking hilarious. Yeah, I think the main thing that I've learned is like, because people always say that Apple products are easier, and I don't know if they're easier, but I do know that they

have designed an ecosystem in which if you do it the Apple way, it feels flawless. It feels easier, yeah. But if you don't know any other way, that works. If you're used to like five different ways to do something or like, you know, having a thought and going, I bet I can do that. And then it's correct. yeah being used to that you know working at the speed of inspiration as it were as it's as opposed to the speed of whatever apple's doing i will say the one frustrating thing about google because i have like

the pixel like the ogy you know um google version is they cannot seem to hold on to any app for longer than like two years oh really yeah like google podcast disappeared now it's youtube music or like wallet then became something else and now it's a wallet again but it's a different app like they There's an entire website dedicated. It's called like the Google Graveyard or something. And it's just every project that Google has been. Because apparently the internal reward system at Google is people prioritize new and exciting over longevity. So if you launch a product, you're rewarded.

But if you maintain a project, you don't get anything. That's so stupid. It is very stupid. So that is one thing that I'm like kind of angry with Google about. Because I'm like, because Apple podcast. it's going to be that forever. Oh, yeah. You know, at least you can trust that when you get that thing, it's always the same.

Yeah, and that's actually why I wanted to get an iPhone because I noticed that at least my Apple products last a really long time. Yeah. Whereas I feel like I'm changing my Samsung phone every two years. And so I thought, well, maybe I can have an iPhone and keep it for five years. Yeah. But I just couldn't, I couldn't take it. I wanted to be able to put my apps where I want to put them. Yeah.

Or like even just the widgets, like I have like tons of. random little like, you know, like calendar widgets and like, you know, here's all the countries that I work with. And a file structure. Yeah. Yeah, like an actual file structure like on a computer. Yeah. Instead of just like, oh, these are just going to be in your or they're like, yeah, you got to pay us two bucks a month to have any memory at all. Yeah. Thank you. Every once, you know, every month I get a new email that's like, thanks for your $2. And I'm like, yeah, I've not used that iPod enough or iPad enough. Oh, it's hilarious. Yeah. I saw it when I was popping through your IMD or something, that you had worked with Chris Sebalt.

Oh, Christian Sebalt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was, he's the reason why I am here. Really? Because I had him on the podcast just ran it. I think I asked him randomly. I was like, do you want to be on?

And he was like, okay. Because I really like when I was a teenager, I really enjoyed Resident Evil Apocalypse, which he shot. Oh, yeah. And all that. But what do you mean? He's the reason you're here. Well, I mean, he's my break into big TV. So he's the one that hired me on for the people as a C camera operator and additional cinematographer.

And that was a Shondaland show. So that was like my first big job in big TV, higher budget network TV. And so he was my DP on that. That's awesome. So he was very much a mentor. What, where, what were you doing before you? got the CCAM gig. Oh, sorry, it's just a loud motorcycle went by. Oh, yeah, I've got an entire construction going by. I know. I'm on victory here. So, and, uh, it sometimes a loud power will go by.

Um, before that, I mean, I, I had been shooting for 16 years before I kind of, before I got that break with Christian. Um, so I had been shooting mostly independent, low budget stuff. So indie features like really micro budget features um documentary kind of work uh sometimes reality shows just everything so how did you pop up on his radar then so that that is my little uh stars aligning story that i know is out there in the world and people have heard it before but i can tell it to you too yeah i haven't heard it so i'm down you haven't heard it um so it was funny because two years prior to getting that job on shot on for the people with christian i had actually done one day for christian as a day player camera operator

and when i was when i was working for him i noticed that the the shoot he was doing it was a huge shoot was like this concert thing that they're doing and um that's why they brought me in as an additional camera operator i actually don't know how they got my name i might have just been on a roster or something. Did you have representation at the time? No, I didn't. I didn't have representation. So when, so I got called in just for this one day on, it was like a Disney show that

he was shooting at the time. And when I got there, I realized that this thing that they were shooting was really big and he had a lot of shots to get. And I went ahead and I was a little bold and just went up to him and told them that I've been a DP for 14 years or whatever it was. and have a MFA from AFI, so I'm a DP, and if he did need help with maybe presetting a shot, like setting up some lights, because it just, I saw the list of shots they had to get, and it just looked insane to me.

And I told him, I said, if you want me to hopscotch with you a little bit, I could probably preset something so you don't have to light it and then shoot. And he was like, oh, okay, well, yeah, maybe I'll do that. And as the day was going on, it was like a night shoot. And I think he realized that he needed a little bit of help to get all these shots done. And so he started asking me to go preset a shot, light it with some of his electricians. He'd come out, approve the frame. We'd shoot it.

And that was the only time I'd actually worked with him. So I did that one night. And then that was it. I'm like, okay, well, cool. That was fun. I had a good time. It's a day rate, whatever. And it wasn't until two years.

years later that he had reached out to the union and called Stephen Poster and asked if he knew of maybe a upcoming cinematographer in the union that might be interested in being the C camera operator slash additional, additional cinematographer on For the People. And I had just won one of the ECA awards, emerging cinematographer awards. And so Stephen Poster was like, oh, you might want to reach out to Alicia Robbins because she's one of our ECA award recipients, blah, blah, blah. And Christian was like, oh, I remember her. Oh, my gosh. She helped me on this Disney show.

And I made my day because she helped. So that's kind of how that happened was it was just a perfect little alignment. So I went for the interview with Christian, Tom Verica, who is who I'm working with. now in Bridgerton, and Mary Howard, who is the producer, and I got that gig. And so ever since then, I haven't been doing the low budget stuff anymore. That's a blessing. Yeah, especially right now. I'm not looking for anything and everything.

It's been slow. Yeah, that was during the strikes, everyone kind of moved down to tear. And I was like, oh, okay, well, all right, that makes sense. And then now that it's slow again, everyone's still down a tier. And I was like, oh, shit, I need to find something else to do. Yeah, I mean, I got lucky enough where I was shooting Quantum Leap right up until the rider strike. And then as soon as a strike was over, I jumped right back on in November. And so I was able to shoot that until the end of the season.

So I did have at least work this last year. I know some people out there didn't have anything. but still it's slow again and so there's not a lot getting going yeah the uh i do want to get back to mentorship but now that we're here i was wondering because i've seen a lot of uh guesses but do you do you have any uh thoughts as to the reasoning for it being so slow beyond just people moving stuff to vancouver or whatever because even you know it sounds like across the world it's it's slow across the world it's slow because i've talked to some of my crew members and London, too, and they're saying it's slow there, too.

Honestly, I don't know. It's all hearsay and speculation. I feel like it's still the, we haven't completed our negotiations with Diotsi and Teamsters and the fear of a potential strike again, I could see why producers wouldn't want to start something new. That, and I'm sure they're having to figure out how to handle the negotiations that were made for the previous strike and how does that affect the budgets moving forward and how do they need to move things around and can that budget that they originally thought for the show be the

same or do they have to adjust now so I'm sure there's a huge adjustment that's having to I'm not vouching for them being like oh I'm sure they're having to do a lot I want them to get shows going anyway but realistically I think they're having to work out a lot of logistics before they can actually get going again. And so that's kind of what I'm wondering if that's what's happening. Yeah, that was also my guess. It does suck that it's a like bureaucratic reason and not a creative reason, you know? I know.

Oh, we just don't have any scripts. Like, I'd be like, oh, damn, all right, right? Or step up. But it's legitimately just. Just how. Yeah, how do they handle these, the next budgets? And I think also it feels like they're going to scale back anyway. Like, I just don't think that a lot of these streaming platforms are going to be throwing everything out there like they were before.

They had so much content. Yeah. So much content. It was kind of ridiculous. Honestly, you didn't even know what to watch. So I could imagine that there's going to be a scaling back with how much stuff is going to be produced. So that's going to affect everybody. The other thing, too, is like with all the stuff.

streamers, as you said, they put out a kind of content, but it seems like that same mentality applies to theatrical, where, you know, if you don't go on the first weekend, they pull it and put it on, you know, whatever, Paramount Plus, whatever it may be. Yeah. And that's, like, I kept telling people to go watch Fall Guy, because that was a lot of fun. And it was the best. And then I read an article. It's like two weeks after premiere. It's on whatever, you know, Netflix, HBO or whatever. I still go to the movies. I like going to the movie theater. Well, you also live next to a good one. I also live next to a good one. The mall next near my house has a tremendous AMC. And I was just on Reddit of all places, which is not great. And there was just a bunch of people in this thread talking

about how like if you don't live near where we live like most theaters are trash yeah and i was like that is something like you know i don't i don't venture out of this area very often but you know like i'm in colorado once a year and i remember one time we were bored and went to a theater in summit county and we were just like oh i got it like yeah it's shit like the you know when people talk about dim screens and like a speaker being out yeah chairs that haven't been refurbed for a while it's like i yeah i also would not want to pay 20 bucks i was just in portland Oregon and I saw Furiosa on a new screen X. Have you seen that?

The 4DX thing? A wrap around. Oh, no. So it's three screens. They're doing that again. The side screens aren't really, it's just like the wall, but they must have it as a particular material. I need to research a little bit more.

I didn't know that's what I was about to watch. I was just like, oh, I'm going to go, yeah, sure, I'll watch it on the screen X. Right. And then it started. Yeah, it was actually pretty cool The whole movie wasn't done that way Which was nice because I honestly I feel like I would have had motion sickness

Sure But there was a few key scenes Especially a lot of the action work And all of a sudden the sides would come up And it was it was pretty wild Yeah It was actually a good projection too So I'm like oh go go Portland

Yeah I'm sure Portland has some good Yeah you would think so There's so many artists there And there's some film there too So that would make sense. The, what was that called back in there? Because that, that formats from like the 50s. Was that, uh, the Cinerama round?

Yeah, the three screen. Because it's using three lenses, too. Yeah, because they did that for, what was it? Oklahoma or there was like one of those films that it was like the one that launched that three screen. Oh. Because I remember that, I saw a thread where they're talking about whatever that film was. They're talking about remastering.

it for like a 4K Blu-ray. And so they had to go in and like, you know, in post kind of like blend up the, because they shot three cameras. And so, you know, they had to go in and blend those edges. Because in person, they, it didn't really, you know, no one was really expecting the three to be pixel perfect matched, you know. Oh, yeah. Going back to Christian, was what, did he as your sort of a mini mentor or even full mentor,

was there anything that he kind of taught you that comes to mind that helped you be a better DP? I really loved his levels of contrast. He's a pretty, he lights pretty dark. Yeah. Even for network TV, he would, he would be on the darker side of things and he loves contrast, negative fill, splashes of light in the background, even if it's not motivated by something just to give a little specular highlight across a bookcase or something like that. Um, So I kind of followed that. And I liked that lighting. I like contrast anyway.

And so I learned a lot on the lighting side from him. Sure. And I ended up working with his gaffer, John Haney. I ended up bringing John over to Grey's Anatomy to be my gaffer the second season that I was there. So again, working with John, who had worked with Christian, and they had developed that lighting style together over the years. Yeah. So learning a lot, again, from John Haney, which is still Christian as well, his influence. Yeah.

And that's pretty much how I light now. So a lot of the lighting tricks that I've done over the past few years are from Christian. That's cool. Yeah, did any of that like CSI influence work its way over to Graze? Probably. Yeah. Honestly, yeah. He's a little blankies in the background sometimes for no reason.

He's like, oh. Make it darker. Yeah. It never occurred. You know, when I was just watching that show, CSI as a kid, it never occurred to me that, like, in no world would there be like an investigative department that everything, all the lights are turned off, and there's just a thousand LEDs blinking in the background for no reason, but it looks so cool.

It looks cool. It looks cool. Go with it. Yeah. Actually, you know what's funny is I, uh, There's probably not a lot of stories like this anymore. But when I remember I was in Burbank, I was like applying to a film school or something. And my mom and I, like when, you know, before I got to college and my mom and I were in a hotel and just flipped over to, I guess it was probably ABC or whatever.

And they were like, all right, premiere, new show, Graze Anatomy. Here you go. And me and my mom watched the first episode of Grey's Anatomy in the hotel. And for whatever reason. You mean, when going out back in 2003 or whatever it was? Yeah, yeah, yeah. and for whatever reason I've remembered that

because it lasted I mean it's still going on isn't it or did it It is it's still going on It's the only time I remember Being there for a premiere of anything And the only reason I remember Is because it's one of the longest run

It's got to be one of the longest running shows on television It's the longest running At least medical drama For sure I know there's other shows that have gone longer It's like season 20 I think at this point But you know Jeff Jeff Jur shot that pilot.

Did he? I wonder if I asked him about that. And now we're full circle because he shoots Bridgerton. Oh, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. So we're friends now, which is awesome. So we're like, ah, the Grace Anatomy team. Because you did what, 16 and 17?

I did 16 and 17. So he just shot the pilot, but still he did the pilot. That's crazy. I may have told him that story, can't because it's like. now it's like show comes out and you're like all right what weekend are we going to binge this you know you can't binge gray's anatomy don't be watching it for a year yeah yeah the you know you're talking about contrast the the new um bridgetton season uh seems a lot like obviously right now there's only what four episodes out and it just so happens that my girlfriend was

watching it when i like went to go see what she was doing and i was like oh i got to talk to Lisha later. Getting a drink. No, literally just starting making notes, you know. But it did seem a lot more kind of like even and sort of, I hesitate to say pretty, but that's, you know, they all look pretty. But like it's kind of what were the kind of, it does look different than the first two seasons. I was wondering if there was like a conversation about that or sort of maybe there's like a script

reason for a different look or I know there's a different showrunner now. So it's actually more contrast in this season. Oh, okay. Yeah. But now I'm wondering if I need to. come over to your house and set up your monitor. Yeah, maybe. Well, it just seems a lot like softer.

But then again, I didn't go back and rewatch the first season. So I can't. I mean, I was really following what the first two seasons had established for the most part. But I did go a little bit darker overall for some of the scenes. Or I would let a room play darker. So most of the time, I'll have even key light on a face. because that is the look that you're going for. You're looking for that beauty lighting.

So even light on a face, but the room will have more contrast. I see. So the whole room could be darker, but then it might have like a sun splash on the back or the lights just pushing through the windows. So I would definitely put more contrast in the space, not on the face. Got it. So to speak. Yeah.

Got it. Because, yeah, they're not big on really hard lighting on a face. I'm not, honestly, I'm not a huge fan of hard light on a face anyway. Now, a directional soft source, absolutely. Yeah. So I like it if you can hone in directionally with a soft source, but it still has to have a little bit of a soft quality to it, not a hard key light.

But yeah, there's definitely more contrasts and some of the scenes are a lot. The nighttime work is darker. Yeah. So playing more into that. candlelight feel that the place is actually being lit either by the moon or candle or firelight so leaning into that a little bit more um the second episode which was uh which has the the ball that takes place like under the full moon um that was a lot darker that's like the first ballroom scene of bridgetin that was actually shot at those light levels being that dark um And I mean, I obviously had to do lighting tests and things like that to make sure that this was okay.

Oh, you didn't wing it? You know, I can't just go in and be like, I'm going to make everything dark. Right. Not get fired. So. Did you, how many DPs are on this season? Just you? It's three this season.

So I did four episodes. Sorry, now I'm chewing my arm. Let me get this out of my mouth. Yep. No, fair enough. I don't care if you include this. It's ridiculous, but whatever. And then everyone knows that I'm dealing with a cough.

She's working through it. I'm working through it for the public. Sorry, it's like a gooey center. Oh, now you're stuck with it. It's good, though, because that gooey center really just, like, the vapors that come out of my nose and it clears up everything. It's lovely. Like, it's the regalas that have the gooey center. I was literally about to say, well, it's not a regala, but I guess they've upgraded.

It's a regla, but it's got the gooey middle. It's actually really good. They want you to enjoy the experience. Brought to you by. Yeah. What were we talking about? Reaklis. No, you're saying there's a moonlight and then, oh, the 3DPs.

Like how you guys are working together. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I did four episodes. Diana Olfrova did three. and four. And then Jeff Juror did seven and eight. Got it. So he would have normally done half of the season with me, but he was still on Queen Charlotte. So there was no way for him to wrap Queen Charlotte in time to be able to split the season. So it was three DPs this time around. Gotcha. And what were the conversations like between the three of you? Was it like incredibly collaborative? Or did you all kind

of have like a plan and then just go off and do your thing? It was, I talked to, Jeff quite a bit before I started. I just wanted to make sure that if there were any tricks that I needed to know about going into it, because it's such a big show. And if you just had any insight to like what I should be doing, what I should be looking for. And I mean, for the most part, it was all pretty straightforward on, honestly. And because I was starting season three, it did give me a little bit of freedom to do kind of

what I wanted to do with the season, and then talking to the showrunner, Jess, she did say she wanted to go a little bit darker this season. And so we leaned into that. So I knew that by starting the season, that the other DPs would have to pretty much follow what I was establishing. And Diana did that. She leaned more into the contrast and the lower light levels. and I think mostly I think she was just watching daily to just try to get a handle on what it was that maybe I was doing but yeah I mean there was a lot of

I felt like there was a lot of freedom to put your style on it within reason there's always a within reason asterisk you can't just you can't just change everything like that doesn't work either you have to still you still have to be true to what the show is

and what has been established before and what's important to the writers and the producers and a lot of that is the production design, the costumes, the hair, and you need to show that off and you need to be thinking about that in terms of lighting and your framing so that you are showing off that work on screen.

I was actually talking about how like with Bridgeton the close-ups are not what you expect. Only once in a while do you actually get into a true close-up because you're showing off the wardrobe. And also some of the wigs are so tall. You're holding a way wider medium shot just so that you can keep the wig infrayed. But that's part of it.

You want to show off what they're wearing and the environment behind them. But there wasn't a lot of time to have extensive conversations. conversations with like Diana, for instance, because she's in prep while I'm shooting. So unless she's coming to set, what she did, she came to set a couple of times that she had time to see what I was doing and what levels I was working at. And then Jeff would visit too because he wanted to see what it was that I was doing before he started his two episodes so that he could also kind of fall in line with what we were doing for the first six episodes. Yeah, it's always an interesting, I feel like the answer is always the same, but for some reason I'm waiting for a moment where the DP's like, yeah, well, none of us ever spoke.

I have no idea what the other seasons look like. Oh, no, we definitely talked. I mean, I talked more with Jeff, though, than I did Diana. And I think it mostly was just because, well, he's also still the lead DP on it. So immediately, I wanted to form a friendship with him just so I was not changing everything that he'd established for the first two seasons, honestly. And then he visited set a little bit more. So he would be seeing what I was doing and which luts I was using for what moments.

Because I did create a couple new luts for the show as well. And I think sometimes he ended up using those luts too. I think Diana did too. It was a new nighttime Lut, specifically for Moonlight, and it was for that second episode for that whole ballroom scene that takes place under the moon. Because our current show Luts, they were a little bit on the blue side to my liking. I like, for the moonlight, I wanted to be a little bit silver, like a silvery moonlight. And so we created a new Lut specifically for that second episode.

And then I ended up using it pretty often because I did. just liked the way the nighttime um looked with that we called it the moonlight let and so i ended up using it quite a bit yeah what do you uh you know when making a period show i feel like there's so many ways to tackle what ostensibly are all kind of the same oftentimes like set up you know you're in a big fancy room there's windows on one side not on the other you know cinematographer's dream but uh did you did you guys kind of um because bridgeton's been a pretty modern show the past three seasons like did you ever lean into that convention or did you even consider it when looking at like references or anything like that or were there any references

you mean just just existing um uh window light no no sorry um uh shows and and movies that that are in a You know, period stuff. Oh, yeah, I did. Actually, I looked more at, because I knew that the previous two seasons had been a very much kind of a white light show. Mm-hmm. And I found that to be somewhat strange for candlelight interiors at night. And I think it was a thing from the previous showrunner where I don't think that he particularly liked warm. lighting because it didn't show off the costumes color as much so we figured out a way to still

have warmth in season three coming from candles and firelight and then in post the colorist he actually was able to pretty much isolate wardrobe and pull the color back out so the wardrobes won't be so warm but the atmosphere still felt like a warmly lit scene so we were able to to find that balance between still being true to the colors of the clothing, but make it feel realistic and natural that they're being lit by candlelight or firelight. So, but I did, yeah, I liked dangerous liaisons at the 1988 one with John Malkovich. Do you remember that? No, I'm going to watch that.

I used that for a lot of lighting reference. then I'm a fan of like Amadeus Amadeus is actually pretty high key and flat though if you look at it yeah yeah yeah and that being a period piece I thought that was interesting

how flat it was because I rewatched that oh look I got it so weird it's been happening we'll get thumbs-ups and then sometimes it'll be the balloons wait the balloons yeah I was watching other period pieces to kind of get some idea because the whole idea

is I wanted it to be natural feeling, even though it is a modern period piece. And there was leeway to probably do some other colors in there or not always motivate from windows or the fire or the candles. I really like the look if it's motivated from a source that's natural to the environment. So I wanted to do that as much as possible. Yeah. And really motivating off candlelight. And I like when the candles really pop in the frame, too.

I like to feel the brightness of the candle as if that is lighting the space. So I was playing a lot with working at high ISOs so that you could really feel those candles popping. And then working everything else at a really low light level. Were you, I assume you were modifying the candle. Were they like triple white candles or were they just like normal? So a lot of locations weren't allowed, we weren't allowed to have real candles at all. So we had LED candles for a lot of it. That's interesting.

Yeah. On stage, we could have real flames, but there were some of these heritage estates that we would go to that did not allow flames of any sort or even atmosphere or even tungsten lighting. We couldn't have tungsten lighting because of the heat. Right. So how to work LED and the LED cameras. And so to try to get the right lighting ratio with LED candles, you have to work at super low light levels and like a 2,500 ISO so that those candles really feel like they're popping. Yeah. And you guys are shooting Venice?

Yep, Sony Venice. Because I think Jeff told me the first season was like F-55 or something like that. Yeah, I don't think it was of Venice. F-35 or whatever the black box was before the Venice came out. Yeah, yeah, I can't remember what the first season was shot. But it's been a Sony show the whole time. Yeah. Yeah.

Was there a particular reason for that or? What to do the Sony Venice? Yeah. I mean, it's sick hammer, but. Um, I don't know. I mean, I've been shooting with the Sony Venice quite a bit lately. So when I knew that they had shot second season with Sony Venice, I wasn't even looking to try to change that.

Sure. There was no need for me to try to change it because I had already shot my previous show on the Venice and I was used to it and I really liked it a lot. So I'm like, why change it? Was there a lensing difference? No, it was Airy Signature Primes, which they had also used for the second season. I was happy with that too. They're very clear lens. They're beautiful.

They're just, you know, there's not, I wouldn't say there's a ton of character to them, but that's not what you're looking for anyway. You're looking for good glass. Yeah. That matches, especially A and B camera. Like, they all, they match. Yeah. And that's what the show is anyway. It's a pretty clean looking show for it being a period piece.

So when I heard that that was the combination that was being used, I wasn't looking to change that up. I didn't need to, you know, push my weight around and go, no, it must be blah, blah, blah, or something. Like, if it works, then. I need to shoot a Raptor and K-35s. We're flipping this bitch around. I do love a K-35, though.

We all do. I've mentioned it a few times, but my secret is whenever someone wants a K-35, I pull out my night course. Oh. Because I think people are addicted to the idea of a K-35 but aren't ready to shoot it like an F-4 where it's actually usable. You know, because otherwise it's always... Everyone's so used to shooting wide open now. Yeah. That is a too wide open, though.

I'm not a wide-open, deep. no the only lens i'll do it on honestly is the that sigma 18 to 35 oh yeah that thing is so sharp wide open that like yeah if you're looking for that especially if you know with a close up obviously that's stupid but you know with a good medium or something like it that really does a nice fall off i did like the um or t2 the uh uh like a sumacrons yes are good at a one four the fincher specials they can yeah they can handle it too But yeah, I don't know. I just, and on like Bridgerton, I was mostly 2, 28.

Yeah. Usually a split between 2, 2,8. Sometimes I'd go to 2. And then for daytime exteriors, I like to have a deeper stop. I just feel like it looks more natural. So I would be shooting at a 4, maybe 4, 5, 6 split. Rarely go to an 8. I would only go to an 8 if like the clouds are doing something

weird because it's London. So, you know, you're getting cloud coverage in and out constantly. So I might have to write it a little bit. And once in a while, you might be throwing it to an eight. Much to the first pleasure. What's that? Much to the first A.C.'s pleasure. Oh, eight. Oh, eight. Yay. Oh, no. Back to two. Oh, my God. Snack time. Yeah. I did want to know because it feels like every D.P. I've had on who has gone to AFI has gone on to have a stellar career. What is it about? Not every DP that goes AFI goes on to have a stoic career, but all the ones I've spoken to have. It's a self-selecting process, right? Like, it's everyone who's ended up here, which means they probably shot something

cool. And then they all happened to have gone to AFI. Yeah, it's great cool. I was wondering what that that experience was like for you. It sounds like everyone that I've spoken to about, it seems to have a similar experience, but I was wondering what yours was. Yeah, probably. I think as everyone comes out of there with a good sense of storytelling, that is the key focus. You are getting the technical knowledge, of course. You're playing with lenses, cameras, lighting, all that stuff. But I think the main thing that a lot of the DPs that are coming out of AFI have is a good sense of storytelling and how the camera should move, frame.

size, all of that, and then lighting, how is all that playing a part in that character and the mood of the scene and everything? So that's something that's really hammered into the students while you're there. So I do feel like a lot of the DPs that come out, A.5, I have a solid sense of storytelling. And the program basically, like, reductively works where, like, everyone kind of works on one project. Like, there's one director and one DP, like, a number of times. What's the kind of structure there? I don't know if I've ever asked anyone this.

Oh, the structure. So the first, sorry, I just realized I forgot to turn my ringer off. So I'm going to do that right now. Just in case. Just in case. We can't have any more. I legitimately take my phone and throw it over there on the couch. Just get out of here.

Don't distract me. Well, the first year you're doing what is called cycle projects. And you have three cycle projects. And they try to keep it pretty even for how many directors, DPs, editors are there so that you have three projects that you're shooting your first year and then the second year you're focusing in,

at least as a cinematographer, you're focusing in on your 35-millimeter MOS project and your thesis film. So you do two projects that you're shooting your second year. Oh my gosh. There it is. We got them.

So weird. So the first year you're shooting three projects Sorry, I'm trying to get my view better, so I can, so much fun. There, at least I'm sort of looking towards the line. I mean, yeah, I don't. I'm over here. This is great. This is first.

Yeah, first year, you're shooting three projects, and you have a different director, producer, you have a different team for each one. And they're like, they're all shorts. Everything is a short at AFI. Like five? And everyone crews for each other. Like five minutes? 10 minutes? A lot of times they're 20. They're pretty long shorts. Proper short. Yeah, it's a proper

short. And for the first year, each discipline has the focus. So the first one is, I think, the director is the, it's their short. It's kind of weird. And the second one is like the producer's short. And the third one is like the writer's short. I'm not really sure how that all works together is like okay but you're still kind of shooting it the same way you're not really yeah anyway um and those are all digital too the cycle projects were all shot on Sony cameras and you did not have the choice of shooting film for that first year they just want you to practice cycle projects are for practice interesting they want them to be good because you could use them for your reel but it was purely for practice and then it's the second year that you're like

Now we're shooting 35 millimeter MOS project. And then the thesis film, it's your choice of what you want to shoot on. And I ended up going with the Sony F-900 because that was the hot digital camera at the time. Yeah. The episode two, Star Wars episode two champion. Yeah. And I knew we needed digital because I also pleaded to the faculty to let me shoot with two cameras. Because they never allowed that.

They never allowed to have two camera shorts, but my thesis was massive. It was, it took place in a church with like 100 extras and a whole gospel choir. And sorry. Yeah, I needed that second camera. Man, I remember, I can't imagine this happened to you, but I remember the, whichever Star Wars it was, when they had first started piloting that thing, it needed to be like attached to a computer that was loud as fuck. way off in the I imagine that wasn't that was not the case no

it was all enclosed in one yeah one body thank goodness yeah I think if I remember correctly it was like the entire film is dubbed because the recording box was so loud

my gosh no we did not have that problem well he was probably beta testing that at the time yeah I think he was but yeah no if I was and you're just constantly on these projects and you're still going to classes though and then you're going to crew and then you're preparing for it so it is a whirlwind of a school for two years and you're just constantly shooting or you're constantly practicing on someone else's set operating or being an electrician

so it really is a thorough education when it comes to cinematography yeah with um obviously going there as we mentioned like give you know gives you the the skills to properly work on a set, but does the AFI name, you know, back in the day, it was always like, oh, you went to USC? Well, get on, you know, get on set. Does AFI kind of have that? I think it does. Yeah, because I think that if people know that you graduated from AFI, they at least know, for the most part, you probably know what you're doing. For the most part. Yeah. So you already have a little bit of a step ahead coming out of that school. It is, it is, a prestigious school because so many famous people have come out of it. So I think it does help

to have that name. Yeah. Did you, hard pivot. There's not a lot of people who have created a brand around their type of filmmaking. I think, you know, Fincher, Wes Anderson. And then you've got Shonda Rimes making an entire production company like an adjective. You know, like Chondland. Well, like, Sean, yeah. Yeah, it's a shondland thing and everyone goes, got it. Yeah, we know what it is.

Yeah. What's it like working in that ecosystem? Because it's, again, it's rare to have someone be so, like, holistic in their approach to shooting anything these days, especially, you know, multiple TV series and stuff where you're just allowed to keep doing it. Yeah. I mean, I think that all of our shows, I think they all look different from each other. Sure. Oh, no. I just mean on just working in that environment.

But working in the environment, yes, is similar. Grace Anatomy was kind of its own beast, though, because it's been around for so many years. And so many of the people that have been on that show have been on for 20 seasons. So they kind of have their own way of doing things that are different than other people out there in the world. But for the most part, it's still that the,

the philosophy that people should be nice to each other, higher diversity. You want to see your set be a copy of what you see in the world, which is diversity. And all of her shows are like that. So you'll see a lot of women. You'll see a lot of people of color. And I like that.

I like that inclusiveness. And you have to just know that if you're going to be working on one of those shows, that's what it's going to be. Yeah. And you also are expected to help and guide maybe someone that is new to the industry, but they need to get boosted up in their career. You're expected to help. That's nice.

And no, and I like that. I don't mind helping. So it's actually a good ecosystem for me, too, because I come from a family of teachers. And I actually like that teaching aspect. And so being in that ecosystem where you're trying to raise up people, I think is, I enjoy it anyway. Yeah. It is funny because I feel like with most art forms, I feel like I'm a magician. When people are like interested in magic, like truly, not just like show me the secret, but like actually like it's it's the best like talking about it and like, you know, figuring out what they're stoked on.

And same thing with, like, music, you know, I feel like when you're talking with other musicians, it's, even if it's not your genre, like, it's fun to see what other people are doing. It always weirded me out when people, you'd meet like old heads on certain sets or whatever. They were like, cagey. It's like, we're all on the same set, dog. Like, you don't got to hide. Like, you know, always taking your job because you told me your special little lightbox that you made, you know? Yeah, yeah. Or why you did that.

Yeah, that protective nature, that's. It doesn't really fly anymore. I get it, though. I mean, especially as you get older and you've been in the job for so long, it's always that fear that you're going to get pushed out by the new young, hot, whatever it is. DP, production designer, whoever. So there is always that fear that you're going to get pushed out someday. Yeah.

But I feel like film is one of those art forms that you don't like. youth isn't necessarily important. It isn't. It's not. Because you see people operating. I know, but honestly,

I think for women, it's going to be a different story. Yeah, potentially, yeah. Which kind of sucks. So I'm hoping that that won't be the case,

but it does seem like, not necessarily the film business, but I know in other professions, it's already hard enough as a female to get to that level. Right. And then ageism starts taking a role once you hit your 50s

and your 60s for some reason at least for women so it's kind of I don't know we'll see what happens I guess yeah and it's also frustrating when

obviously I haven't experienced this but I have you know even people with the best intentions just by the virtue of the society that we grew up in those kind of blind spot I bet people would say no I don't care how old someone is

but then they'll meet you know a woman in their 60s or whatever and then immediately instead of thinking ooh experience they'll be like you know those subconsciouses pop in grandma did you bring knitting to the set today like do you need a nap um and they don't realize that we're just as strong if not stronger right that age um i mean i think most people are and i'm hoping not just the acceptance of diversity and women and whatnot but the acceptance of being older and that that does that that can be a good thing if you're older and still in this profession and you still have your wits about you and you still can do the craft so um well we're so want to do it too i i feel like i want to do it forever

honestly but also it's such a young media like film is only what 120 years old something like Like, like, if you've got a DP on your set who's 60, they've seen most of film. Like, get them to the front lines. Yeah. I know. They invented it. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, it's so dumb when it's like, oh, this kid's got, you know, at my level,

it'll be like, oh, well, this guy's got 50,000 followers on Instagram. So he probably should be our DP. And, you know, well. I know the whole Instagram thing. That's a tough one, too. Like, I do have an Instagram account. And I mean, I'll have a ton of followers, but I do notice that there's some DPs out there that have 50,000 followers. And yeah, like, how are you getting that?

I think a big part of it is kind of what you were saying. Like, this is kind of, I'm going to try to consolidate all these thoughts into like one coherent thought. But basically, the online space for the film community, the videography community is more accurate, is. is on the back of education. So people don't want to follow an account or whatever unless they get something out of it. Yeah. Or unless they've done something so cool that you, you know, then it's a strict, like, fan situation. You know, I follow Dua Lipa.

I don't know her and I certainly can't sing. But her music's rad. So there we go. Yeah. But like, you know, most of the people who have these big followings tend to be people who are like, sharing lighting diagrams and like whatever and that seems to be kind of the only way because yeah like even the biggest DPs on the planet also they're like working too hard to share everything they're doing or they've got an NDA that doesn't allow them to you know do all that

exactly I know because I have some great behind the scene stuff of Bridgerton that I can't necessarily just throw out there right which also I think see that this is another travesty you've got all that stuff and if you shared it out not only would that be beneficial for you, but it would probably be beneficial for the show because people seem to dislike obfuscation when it comes to modern media, modern, they want to know, you know, who shot what and like what it looks like and stuff, even if they're lay people. Yeah. You know, they just, and that's like free advertising. You don't have to pay extra. They don't need advertising. Well, yeah, Netflix doesn't. But like, but, you know, it's. Bridgetton definitely does it.

It's like a 2.3 billion hours watched or something. It's, yeah, or minutes. It was insane. They don't need my advertisement for my little. Maybe not for Bridgetton, but like, you know, any given show, you know, putting it out there will, will. And I have done that before. Like, I have posted and I get, I always get permission anyway. So if I put something together, I get permission from the network or whatever. So I have some videos, tutorials actually on my YouTube channel of some scenes that did on Grey's Anatomy.

That's cool. And I put them together for. and then ABC approved them and I was able to put them up. That's rad, actually. Yeah, and I might do the same thing for Bridgerton, too. It's, you know how it is. It's very time-consuming to put together a video. And I like to make it really good as well.

And they do know that after it's all aired, I'm probably going to put some sort of lighting tutorial together. But again, I'm going to have to put it together first, go through all that work. and then send it and get an approval on it. Yeah. And it's not like they've given you a crew to do it. You got to do it all yourself.

I got to do it myself. Yeah, sometimes it's enjoyable. I like doing it. But it also just depends on whether or not I have enough time to do it too. So I wish I could be a little more active with the behind the scenes tutorial stuff. It's just, it's very time consuming. Yeah. I mean, I've mentioned it a million times on this podcast, but one of the worst,

things to happen is like the death of physical media specifically because special features are where I learned tons of stuff. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. And it's like even this is something you need to take this back to Netflix. And if they implement it, I want $5. The language, you know, you can pick your language, obviously, you know, English, Spanish, whatever.

Why isn't director's commentary one of those options? It's how big is a wave file? 20 megabytes? Like, it's not going to eat up Netflix servers. Or even like, I mean, I'd want it to be the director and the DP. Well, sure. Yeah, just whoever recorded whatever, you know, just give us the options. That would be really cool because that wouldn't be hard to do at all.

No. The implementations there. The network is going to be fine. And then they can go back and approve it as well. Like, if they say something weird, then they could just erase that part. Just replace it. Yeah. If you can get rid of a guy in jeans in the Mandalorian,

you can give me a director's comment. Yeah. That could be really cool, especially since TV is, they're like movies now anyway. Right. And so people do want to know how it's done, just like you're saying, like the commentaries from movies where all the DVD selection, you could watch it with the sound off and hear the director talking. I love that stuff. Yeah. It's my other idea that I keep mentioning and I should stop because someone with money is going to steal it. but there should just be a special feature streamer and just and just sell it like a masterclass type thing yeah where it's like and then the way that you can make money is you implement all of the wherever that film special because I bet special features to license are dirt cheap right yeah um and then next to it or like in the whatever menu you just put links to where you can

stream the film so then they all you know you're like hey I'm not even hurting you guys like There's a direct link to Amazon or whatever. Right. That's my. Because you're right. There's more and more people wanting to see the behind the scenes. Actually, there is one really cool. It's on the art, the art direction and production design.

But architectural digest did a whole video behind the scenes with our production designer. And it's actually really cool. Oh, that's great. And she's walking them through the sets and showing all of it. It's really great. It's like a 16 minute video. that they put on. See, that kind of stuff's rad.

I hate when that you get featureettes and they're literally just like ads. Yeah. Like it's just, you know, it's like a few sound bites. It's another trailer for the show already. I'm like, that doesn't help anyone. No one cares about. Oh, yeah, it was so much fun.

And releasing some more stuff. I think more in-depth stuff this season, even more so than last season. Just the fact that there was that whole tour that she did of the stages that they gave approval. for so yeah it's yeah it's cool so i was like oh i want one of those yeah so this is a lens this is the lens we use backlight it one of many yeah the uh yeah i missed i have this whole row of things i got like 400 blu-rays there and i'm still i they need i've had to turn

amazon on the like app you know when you uh you can set your phone to not let you open apps at certain times. Really? Yeah, it's called like, I don't know what the mode is called. I didn't know that. Yeah, you can make it so, you know, if it's like, if your problem is during the day, you're like, catch yourself on Instagram,

or you can just tell it to like, between these hours, don't let me open it. And so I've done that with a few apps at night. Yeah. It's like TikTok, Instagram, and Amazon. Yeah. Because I, habitually, if it's like late, like three in the morning and I'm bored suddenly I'm like well this this blue

right's 10 bucks and I oh no just yeah but I need the special features I did want to work on that for you I'll see if I can get a special feature for next season or something thank you and the and the commentaries I did want to ask about because it's like a big part of your bio is just doing all of these crazy 360 plates oh yeah third law like what was how did you get into that and like how because you you ended up shooting plates for like the biggest films at the time i did i did a lot well it's my husband oh got it mephotism my yeah i mean we were friends for many years before we started to date but he's third law so he owns plate pros and third law

and so we would work together all and and i became one of his main shooters because i would actually do a good job for a world um and anytime there was like a travel job then we would try to do it together because we were we were already working together for so many years and it was a way for us to travel together too to shoot these plates um so yeah the 360 stuff was really through him and his company um but i did other geeky techy stuff too because i used to work in 3d as well oh wow I did 3D engineering and 3D rig technician for 3ality for a few years. What do they do? Sorry, say it again.

What do they? What's the reality? Oh, 3D was the biggest in-camera 3D rig that you could use at the time. So from the years of like 2009 through like 2014, they were the company to go to if you needed a 3D camera. And that was like the beam splitter and the... Beam splitter. Yeah, beam splitter. And I got trained on it at that time.

So I ended up working on some really big movies as like a 3D engineer. I just, and I was doing a lot of that stuff too just to get myself on bigger sets. Sure. Like it's not like I wanted to be in 3D forever. But I knew that that could be a good way to get on some bigger sets. And I did get to be like on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. So I was a 3D rig technician on that. And then with the plate stuff too.

any time it was an integrated unit. So, for instance, like if they had to have the plate car going down a street that was integrated with main unit, then the crew needed to be union. And I was union. And so it made sense for me to go out on most of those shoots as the 360 plate DP. Got it. And that would get me on bigger sets, too. So I learned a lot about how at least action car sequence.

would be put together. So I have kind of a shorthand with that kind of stuff of being able to do car work. That's cool. And it's from doing that this 360 work. And those, I've seen photos, I don't know if they were your rigs or whatever, but it usually at the time was like just, obviously red was like the high res king. So was it just like 12 reds strapped around a van? No, it was actually, so again, with my husband being play pros, he would invent these rigs.

So he would design them and in his workshop and whatever a company might need, he builds them. And actually the go-to camera was Panasonic. Oh, no, because you have a connection with Panasonic. Is it because of that? Yeah, because I'd been shooting with them for so long. I mean, shooting with those cameras for so long. And I liked them from working with the plate company. And I ended up using them for features and everything.

So I ended up becoming a Lumix ambassador. That's cool. I still use so many different cameras. I call myself camera agnostic. Oh, I feel like most people are unless you're one of those affluent-enchant YouTubers. But I do love Panasonic. And one reason why my husband, at least when he was first building the plate rig,

why he gravitated towards the Lumix line is the stabilization on it was better, at least on a car. Sure. Because you got those microvibrations. And then you got the big bumps too. and so the stabilization on the Lumix line of cameras was better than anything else at the time. Interesting. So he'd been in the Lumix line of cameras

for most of his rigs for many years. But he might be switching out. Now it's Fuji film. Let's go. He's also camera agnostic. So it's like whatever does the job the best, gets in the resolution that he needs, has the stabilization that. many needs.

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing with most cameras, right? It's always like they're all kind of the same and then there's one thing that you kind of need and then you go with that. Like for the Venice, obviously, it's like Rialto. Like nine times out of 10, it's like they need the Rialto unit. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I use the Rialto sometimes. I like the Rialto. It's great. But it's only once in a while that I'm like, oh, I need a wedge into this corner. So let's break it apart. And for some car rigging. Right. Yeah.

Ships. planes yeah i remember uh not jeff who was it oh crap he shot the boys oh um was it um dan stole i know the vFX supervisor on that i'm good friends with him oh wow that's got to be a yeah brutal stephen fleet he's a good friend of mine he's the vFX soup on that oh that's got to be fun yeah i've heard this season is incredibly gross which i'm very excited to dive That's a show I would love to shoot, honestly. I'm putting that out there in the world. Yeah, someone stole off.

Yeah. He was saying that because I think they had shot, I think he was saying Venice. And he needed, every once in a while, they needed a shot that they couldn't get the camera into, but they couldn't afford the Rialto. So he brought his personal Fuji film XT3. Yeah. And they were able to cut it together perfectly. And I'm like, that's outstanding. I use, I have an S1H, a Panaslo.

Sonic S1H, and I throw that in a car all the time. I'll rig it to like a gurney, you know, a hospital scene or whatever. And it cuts in, fine. It cuts in with Erie. It cuts in with Sony. Yeah. Colors are really good now. Yeah, they're so good.

You can throw in a tiny little camera and it's going to cut. Yeah. You're just not using it as your main camera. And most of the time, it's just because it doesn't have all the ports. Right. And all the out, the video outs that you need to go to all the monitors. Like a lot of it is that aspect of the little point and shoot cameras that just it doesn't work as a main a camera. That's why I always, whenever people say like, oh, is, you know, is the S1H or whatever a cinema camera?

I'm like, well, does it have SDI and time code? They're like, no. And I'm like, well, then no. But now the BCH does. Yeah, made for that. Like I have a canon for no reason other than I just happened to have purchased them. I primarily shoot Canon if it's me, you know? Yeah.

And the C70, incredible little camera, like, punches way above its weight. Well, have you seen the new one? Is that what it is? The 8K one. What's that one? The R5C. R5C. Yeah.

No, that's been out for a while. Oh, it has? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They make great cinema cameras and no one uses them. Yeah. And I've always wondered why that is. Because it's not usability. They're incredibly easy to use.

Great. I shot my last feature on the C-300. The Mark 3. Yeah. Yeah, they're sick. Yeah, I have a C-500 Mark 2. Yeah, I'd love to. It's a beautiful camera.

Again, a camera's a box with a hole in it. It's like, it doesn't really matter so much. I'm always looking just for me, low light capability. Right. Because I do like working on lower levels just with LED output everything. But then also it changes the kind of units. I'm having to get too. So they've got to be really high quality lights too

because sometimes I'm dimming them down to 2%. Right, and they can't shift around on you. Yeah, the colors can shift. And I've had that happen to me before, even on Bridgerton. We didn't get a chance to test one of the rigs that we put up. I like to do a ring of fire sometimes where I just basically line the whole ceiling. So wherever we're looking, we just turn on the back light and then just get a little bit of fill from the side.

And then if we're doing a steady cam 360, then we can ride the levels as you're spinning around, that kind of stuff. Someone sprinting around with the iPad with Luminary, like shit, shit, shit, shit. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they have a monitor and they're like, just going up and down, depending on which they were facing. But there was one rig that we put up. We didn't get a chance to check the color on the LEDs at the super low light levels. And it was a massive color shift from like 2% to 3%. It went from like pink magenta e to then your lovely 2,500 Kelvin and back and forth.

And I'm going, oh, my gosh, what are we going to do? Yeah, I'm a big fan of, I've completely fallen out of love with sky panels. I know they're great, but they, the, you fall out of love with sky. Yeah, the LEDs are from like 2010. Yeah. And then you got companies like Cream Source and like Kino Flow making incredibly. high, spectrally accurate lights, like across the board. I like rotolite, too.

I've used them. I used, they sent one, I wrote for this website called Pro Video Coalition. So every once in a while I get sent gear to review. And the rotolite sent me one of their like more budget lights. I know they're bigger one. You're talking about the one with like the tunable diffusion. Yeah, that's actually what's on my face right now. Oh, no kidding.

That one's kind of cool. The diffusion I found was it was either on or off, the stuff in the middle I didn't. really notice. No. Well, I actually have a blend going on right now. Yeah. I mean, I only had it for like a week. But you're right.

It's either on or off. Do you want it to be a punchy LED or do you want it to be a soft LED? Yeah. And yeah, the built-in diffusion is kind of cool. But yeah, there's so many lights out there. Yeah. So many lights. So there's kind of no excuse to not having a good LED on set.

Yeah. I'm kind of upset that Kino Flow took so long to make a punchier light. Because spectrally, Kino is. second to none. I mean, like they literally pitch perfect all the time. But they just didn't have, you know, you couldn't get more than an F4 from like a meter. Right. And now at NAB, they've finally demoed these like, they've, they've upgraded the LED engine on it. So they're even more accurate somehow. And then they're a lot punchier. Huh. I missed them at NAB. So I didn't get to check out their stuff. They had this cool woman who would come out and do these aerial silk things because

they had, because they had the mimic, right? So they, so they had the screen. and then they had all the mimics doing the environmental light. Yeah. And then had her doing all. And then they had a motion control arm. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, there was like a little three minute presentation. They'd do it once in a while.

Terrible when I was doing an interview over at Matthews. And they kicked that thing on it. It's like, concert level loud. And I was like, well, all right. So much for that. All right. Well, I think between, I think, I've made a bunch of notes here. all right, we've got to go a few minutes over time to make it an hour.

But I think we've done it. Yeah, now I've got a bunch of homework. And then we can talk about iPhone versus Android again. Yeah, we just bring it back around. Windows 11. How do we feel about it? Not liking it. That's great.

Well, I had a lot of fun. Thanks for spending the time with me. I really appreciate it. Did we talk about everything you wanted to ask? Yeah, pretty much. We digressed a few times. see my my whole thing is with this podcast i think i've said it before but uh it's it's not necessarily supposed to be it's supposed to be vaguely educational yeah most of it is just like hey

do you want to meet these people you know because i feel like all the there's like three other cinematography podcasts and they're and i just don't want to do that that's true that exists i know because we're going to be talking about a lot of the same stuff anyway right and it's like and i and i'm listening to those podcasts if if there are any sometimes yeah it's a newer dp but Like those questions have been answered. Sometimes it'll spur a follow-up, but I don't need to rehash, you know, an interview you did four years ago. No, this is great because you're right. This feels a little bit more like we're just having a conversation and you're getting to know my weird self.

But see, that's the other thing is I think, you know, when you talk about like representation and stuff, I think there's there's kind of a mystery around the type of person that works in film. And I think it's valuable to be able to hear, you know, that we're all just kind of nerdy dorks at the end of the way that all like the same shit, you know. Yeah, that's true. You're right. It's more personal. We're not actors. You know, we don't have to be cool. No.

Some DPs are very cool. Yeah, there are some very cool DPs. I am not one of them. Yeah, neither, neither am I, nor am I prolific. But we'll get there. All right. Well, I'll let you go. Thanks again.

Awesome. Nice to meet you. Thank you. You too. Thanks. All right. See you. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Frame and Reference is an owlbot production. It's produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan, and distributed by Pro Video Coalition. If you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can do so on Patreon by going to frame and refpod.com, where you can get all the episodes and clicking the Patreon button. It's always appreciated, and as always, thanks for listening. Thank you.