Frame & Reference Podcast - 168: "Restitution" DP Nick Ramsey

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

Nick Ramsey is back on the program to talk about his Doc work, his new movie "Restitution", and more! Enjoy! Visit https://www.frameandrefpod.com for everything F&R https://www.patreon.com/frameandrefpod Frame & Reference is supported by Filmtools and ProVideo Coalition. Filmtools is the West Coast's leading supplier of film equipment. From cameras and lights to grip and expendables, Filmtools has you covered for all your film gear needs. Check out ⁠⁠Filmtools.com⁠⁠ for more. ProVideo Coalition is a top news and reviews site focusing on all things production and post. Check out ⁠⁠ProVideoCoalition.com⁠⁠ for the latest news coming out of the industry.

Hello, and welcome to this, another episode of Frame and Reference. I'm your host, Kenny McMillan, and you're listening to Episode 168 with Nick Ramsey, DP of Restitution. Enjoy. Yeah, just been, you know, I shoot like these little mini-docs for the Department of Veterans Affairs, like, veteran mental health. So we'll travel all around and shoot those. So, like, we were in Omaha and New York recently, shooting those, usually there for a week, shoot, like, eight veterans and then kind of, like, have a little interview set up, and then we go and kind of whatever they talk about as kind of. kind of like what they do to, you know, stable up, you know, find their Zane or whatever, you know,

we go kind of film them with some B-roll doing that, whether it's hanging out with a family at the park or rock climbing or like playing guitar and red rocks, you know, that's done too, pretty neat. Casual way to relax. Yeah, it was a lot of steps for me. So it was not relaxing. Yeah, dude.

But the, but the footage looked great. It was awesome. Yeah. But really cool, like we basically go into town and like if you search the Instagram list of like the top 10 things to do in the town, a lot of times we'll hit a bunch of those things on that list. Like we got to go into the space needle by ourselves. We got to go to Liberty Island and see the Statue of Liberty. Like we got to go there just by ourselves with like an employee boat. So it was like just like employees on the island, which was really, really awesome.

And it was like, we saw the, uh, the tourist boat coming in after us and you like couldn't even move. So I was like, oh, my God, we get, we can do 360s on the boat. And I'd like see his face come around and see the statue behind them. It was great. Yeah. It sounds like we've been chasing each other. I was in New York for a week like last month. And then I was just in Seattle two days ago.

Same thing shooting docs, but not, uh, just for a bunch of C. I actually did get to interview the founder of, I've interviewed Mark Cuban, but I got to interview the founder of Starbucks. That's why we were there in Seattle. Oh, cool. But the thing, we don't get to do like top 10.

I'm usually like, I land the day before, filmed the next day, and then straight to the airport. So it's like, all right, I went to a Crackin game. Hey,

I mean, that's fun. Yeah, dude, that stadium is so nice. And like, what, Jerry Bruchheimer is part owner of the Crackin?

Cracking, I believe, or something. I don't know. Some big, producer anyways because you know they have the big opening where they have it's all like projection mapped and they have the water and everything going crazy

on the ice they still do that oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so they have like all that big production value it's pretty cool my sister lives up there so she's a word sends me videos of the games and stuff dude it's it's not only that but like I didn't know they made this promise but the food and drinks are like

they're still stadium pricing but it's like not Staples Center bad or a beer's 22 bucks and you're just come on like yeah i mean it's supposed to be the what the most like green stadium ever yeah yeah it's climate climate pledge bro i mean you wouldn't know it like you like everything looks so nice and like they're not you know there's a lot of recycling bins everywhere and stuff and they got like special cups and shit but it's not like um you know they're not trying to be too cool about it they're not like guess what you're saving energy they charge you

extra in Seattle if they catch you putting trash into the trash can you have to do they really you have to put it in the recycling bin or you have to pay extra oh that's not bad i did i skipped ahead i did want to ask what your um interview setup is because uh for all the the veteran docs because like i said i've been shooting um a lot of the same thing over and over and over again for this docky series and as i've gone i've like pared down the thing because i'm the only one traveling with it right i don't have any help so i really have luckily i get a gaffer so i'm not bringing any lights but like um i was wondering what you're kind of like travel dock you know how do you keep that premium while still being mobile uh i mean well we started off in it we would always get

all the gear or all at least we'd bring my Alexa i have a mini and a classic uh we bring the alexas and then we'd get all the gripping electric uh you know on location um and then you know as time goes on and the way things are going these days it feels like all the companies are buying their own stuff like they're buying the lights they're buying the gear so eventually you know we got a few more on the contract so it made more sense for the company to start buying stuff so they got two uh ronin four d's the six k wow so that's what we're shooting on um shooting with like the only really cool interesting lenses i could find that like fit the the weight limit in everything we're like the vespid retro primes okay so they're actually pretty neat they got

some flare action we did we actually tried the cooks which we really like like the cook sp3s but like that coding we just like couldn't make it flare and like one of the big things for us is we're always shoot we always wake up and shoot our b roll at sunrise and sunset sure always have a low sun and we're always like you know can get the b roll and then walk over pick up a flare and come back kind thing yeah um and then we also this year started they purchased all the lights as well so we've got like 16 cases or something that we're going through to see we have two 1200s um so i have like fully kidded out uh travel 1200d kit and like uh nova's two nova 600s two f22 amaran things you know um because you can kind of fit two of those inside of a pelican case right um then the

the 1200d kind of like lets me fight a window if i have a window to deal with um and the 600 is like a little softer but um now that i've been going out there i may be if i bought it all again i might get like a harder light just so i could i can soften it or use it as a hard light um so the 600 x or something yeah yeah that's that's the main setup Yep. So you are not traveling light. I'm traveling light at all. So completely switched where we didn't use to take all that stuff and now we're taking

everything. Um, but it's just like anytime you're outside of LA, like everything gets very expensive. Yeah. You know, it's like here we just have so much stuff and everybody has it. So they're just like throwing it at you. Yeah. So as soon as you get into an outside market like, oh man. And like, I wish we were making these rates all the time.

No, it does. That is the one bummer. I mean, we've talked about it a few times on the show. But like with production slowing down and like everyone needing gigs, you know, and having that infrastructure here, it sucks to see, you know, I worked on one gig where the genie person we hired, like, priced out what we needed. And then there was a discount line item and it was like 80%. and I was just like fuck that sucks for that

I mean granted like a lot of it's just metal you know it's C stands and whatever so it's not like okay but like still that that's brutal for the gaffer it certainly is I mean I know there are places that like to you know they're all their prices like take a 50% discount to get to like the regular price so that they always look like that but at the same right now it's it's rough out there

I know budgets are low and there's not a lot of them, many of them. So it's kind of like a weird situation with the rental houses where they're usually like giving you a deal and they don't want to as much. And it's like, well, I don't have any more. This is all I got. Help me make it.

Luckily, you know, I've worked with vendors for a long time. So we have that kind of relationship that I can beg a little bit if I need some help and they usually help me out, you know. Yeah, when I got started, one of the first pieces of advice that I got, which I'm glad I took was this dude who was a VP at Viacom he had retired but um because I was like I'm like you know the classic like how do I get gigs and stuff and he's like that's just start working but just take anything but what you should do is go to the local rental house and just hang out there and like make friends and figure out so I ended up starting to do

like YouTube content for that rental house just to because they were looking for you know they're like we're trying to do like an education thing I was like well that's great because I can do that part at least. And that, yeah, that was one of the most valuable relationships I made early, early on was because now even with the slowdown, like I'm like,

hey, I need this and they're like kind of like name your price if you need to. Yeah, it's good to have that. I mean, you definitely need that kind of support. And like the good thing is is, you know, hopefully they're giving you a discount on one and then you can bring them

something a little bit nicer out the next one. It's kind of like, I definitely, you know, like freestyle hooked me up with a, I had a short film coming up and we had no budget. So they basically, like, gave me a set of lenses, like the iron glass primes, which are awesome.

And I had a music video the next week. So I just took that music video to them and kind of like paid it back a little bit. You know, I still had that a little bit of a discount. That's kind of like the story of all of my shoots. But, you know, I'm still trying to repay the favor. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, that's definitely the keys.

Like when you finally get a budget. and you're like, guess what, guys? We're going. That's how it works, right? As soon as you get a budget, then everybody, they want way more than what they were asking for the last time. I'm like, oh, well, if we were getting the last package, we had a good budget, but now we're asking for a discount again.

Yeah. It's always trying to push, you know, the hopes is that you push really hard on that project. It gets seen and then you get some of those bigger projects with that budget and, you know. That's always the hard thing, too, right? Like when you want to do a certain, you know, whether it be doc or narrative or anything, it's like the only way to get those jobs is to have those in your resume, but you can't get those until you have them in your resume. It's this very strange catch 22 for, and I'm sure it's the same with, you know, photographers or any art form where you need to prove that you can do it, but you're trying to do it off the back of the gigs you could get. Right. No, it is kind of crazy because you're like, well, what, all I really know how to do to like get more gigs is like work really hard and it'd be as nice as I possibly can while I'm on said, those kinds of things. So it's like when you're sitting at home trying to cold call and make stuff happen, you're like, what do I do? So then it does work out. Sometimes you take that low rate project and you do meet somebody on that project that's got a cooler project that comes next or something like that. you know it's good better to be out shooting than sitting at home either way so yeah well and to your

point like I think every low budget now there is a hard well I'm going to say the first thing I'll say the second thing pretty much like every low budget gig I've ever taken there's usually other people who are also like doing someone a favor or whatever and it's like on the new york shoot I'd met like he was like the gaffer for S&L oh but he just didn't have any gigs right there so he was like yeah I'll come do this, you know, and then you end up making that network that can, you know, granted, you're probably not going to get a gig off a gaffer, but if you get a gig in this instance in New York, I can call him and know that I'm getting like a seasoned veteran, you know. Like you in the room with some cool people you never know.

Exactly, exactly. The only thing that is a bummer with taking the low budget gigs is there's ones that it's like good people, you kind of have to suss it out right, because like good people who just don't have a budget usually lead to other things. Classic clients that have low budgets because they're just, they don't know what they're doing. Don't.

That's just pain for everyone. There definitely is the, you have to pick and choose because there's a lot of people out there trying to do stuff and certainly there's a lot of passion and there's not always a lot of experience and, you know, sometimes it's worth it

and sometimes it's not. I mean, I generally, like, I don't understand, why people, if you're doing a low budget short or something, like you better send the script every single time. Like, let's not talk about money until we talk about the script, right? Like, you should let me enjoy it and want to be a part of it versus like, if I haven't seen the script, it's tough for me to like sign on for that because I got to believe in something or like, you know, if it's my buddy or if I really want to work with that director or something,

I'm probably going to do it. But other than that, it's like, are we telling a good story? is there something, you know, that this could be seen or, you know, something that would benefit me at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, on the other, I just had this experience. So I'll ask you, have you had the, the, I'm sure you have, had the experience where, uh, the, the experience is not there.

And they like, keep bringing the budget down, you know, by doing stuff like, oh, we don't need this position. We can do that or whatever, whatever. and then you get there and they're starting to and then they immediately start asking for things that they've deleted those positions for or don't have a budget for or whatever and they're like why not and you're like 100% absolutely I mean I think that happens all the time really I mean I have a certain you know you have to kind of at the beginning of the project gauge like this is what I think that I need and you know a lot of times I'll feel bad when I'm fighting for that and I hear the budget numbers or whatever's happening and then we get on set and it's like I would have died if I didn't have an AC out here helping me. And I had to, you know, switch these car rigs and do all this stuff all by myself, which, you know, I don't even want to do the car rigs by myself. I want to grip usually. But like, yeah, I knew, oh, if I, you know, if I use like a little DSLR ring that I can handle no problem and I shoot on an FX3, like we're going to get way more production value than if I just sit in the back seat, you know, we're doing French numbers, which looks great.

but yeah you're getting some hard mounts in there and up in the production value that's what it's all about and on those projects i feel like that's really what i'm trying to do is look for ways to kind of like make it seem like the budget's way bigger than uh than that budget that it actually was so i feel like that's my one kind of thing that i was always put in my uh you know cover letters or whatever is like i like to feel like you know i'm like the gas to the fire creative fire kind of right i can come in and help make things feel bigger and yeah it costs a little bit more but hopefully we can find some creative ways to to offset that yeah or like permits do we really need all these permits and you're like no but that's also

going to mean like we're not you know like i one gig they wanted to do a bunch of car stuff and a bunch of motorcycle stuff. And I was like, that's going to be kind of expensive. And they're like, all right, cool. We got rid of the car. So it's just a motorcycle now. And I was like, that's harder. So we did a poor man's process that I think looks fine with the client.

I was like, this looks fake. And I'm like, it doesn't though. In the cut, it's just going to look. No one's going to, it's at night, you know. But if we like mounted, because this is the other thing I was thinking, like, you shoot the whole thing on like a nice camera with nice lenses and stuff. And then you get this nighttime GoPro scene. handlebar mounted that is going to make it the budget seem way to lower than if you were

to poor man in my opinion yeah and then i feel like to what i what i'm always pushing when i when it's like a poor man's process thing is like the director's time with the actor right i feel like that argument usually helps more it's like kind of more for them um and really that it's the truth i think that like the director in their situations benefits And the actor, the communication that they can have in a poor man situation versus actually trying to do it is unmatchable. Like you can stop, you can redo things, you can reset versus like if you're driving on a street and you need, especially if you need the continuity of a location, like every time you miss it, you're resetting. You have to start over. And that's not a quick reset.

And if you're if you couldn't afford what you needed to begin with, you probably don't have. the time and the resources for all those kind of resets so yeah it's definitely poor men's process like like you said it's quick people are not paying attention to the yeah you what you go back to like what Seinfeld in those things it's like completely dark they're not doing they're not trying to do anything yeah no attention because you're in the moment you're with the actors you're you're you're laughing it's a comedy it's not about the cars outside it's about them laughing inside or whatever they're saying. So,

yeah, poor man's is usually the way to go, you know, in my opinion. Well, and now like the, uh, well,

the one thing I told this particular client, I was like, all right, remember that scene in the, in, uh, fight club where they're all driving and then they take their hands off the wheel and crash and they're like,

yeah, and I'm like, that was all poor man's. That was inside with a hose. Yeah. Like, oh, okay.

But, um, yeah, no, it, it looks better. Oh, that's what I was going to say.

The, um, Now, you know, the volume and all that, okay, I think it's, um, people got a little too excited about it. But for cars, for processed, or I guess it would, I guess poor man's, it's like perfect. Absolutely. I think that's the biggest development technologically and like, I don't know if it saves any money, but I'm sure like at a certain point, these people that have these screens will

just have a collection of like kind of stock roads. Yeah. you can drive through. Yeah, they were already kind of like building those libraries before they even had the, you know, the walls. So I'm sure there's all kinds of stuff like that happening. And, you know, the walls are popping up all over the place. Like there are small studios and things that do have little the walls in there.

They may not have like the pixel pitch might be a little bit wider and things like that. But like especially if you're in the car and it's in the background and it's way out of focus. And that's not as important to have, like, the pixels be so close. You know, you're just a little bit of motion, a little bit of something out there. Like, it's perfect. Actually, when I interviewed Oren Sopher for the creator, and he was saying that a bunch of the car stuff, they just went to like staples and bought a projector and just shot that out the window. And I was like, bold.

I didn't notice. All you need is motion and it to be out of focus. I mean, like, people aren't really paying attention to that stuff. And if they are, they're definitely not watching your scene, right? Like, something, you're doing something else wrong. People are like, oh, I feel like there's a little bit of resolution difference between this thing outside, you know, so. Yeah, if the dialogue isn't holding them enough where they're like, I wonder what's out the window, you know, then we're in trouble. If they're looking at the window, you're in trouble already.

So, you know, it's really, that makes perfect sense. And I'm going to steal that too. Yeah. Oh, no, they used that projector for a bunch of shit. Apparently, like, they had like a, like a white grid pattern. Did you see that movie? I haven't seen it yet. I've only seen it.

It looks great. But there's like these scans that come from like drones. And so they would just, they tried it on a drone. And I think they abandoned that idea because it was just a little too annoying. But like there's like a scan in the car. Someone has like a scanner. And it was literally just. gareth edwards over the head of the of the camera operator with the projector just moving it you know

it's like Hollywood baby yeah it's yeah what do they always say like just whatever you spend money on make sure it ends up on on the screen absolutely everything outside of that can be fucking plywood and temporary nails nobody knows what that is all that it's all about feeling yeah i think that's the like what i like the most about working in this industry is just like how crazy it can be outside of this little frame to make it what it is you know yeah it's the it's the like creative problems like everyone likes you know you get into the movie industry ostensibly because you like movies but I feel like the thing that keeps people there is the sort of soft addiction to solving problems quickly

and creatively absolutely that's the best part for me for sure yeah I mean different Well, not only that, but like, I feel like I always use plumbers an example. I don't know why, but like here's a different, more personal. A friend of mine is a tax person. That's just her thing. And I called her for the first time. I was like, all right, I officially need help with taxes. And I sent her all my stuff and she got so excited because nine times out of 10,

everyone just hands her a W-2 and she files it. But because I'm a freelancer and everything's so annoying, She gets to, like, dig in. Absolutely new stuff. Yeah. And she's like, oh, cool. You know, like, let's solve some problems. Let's see, you know, what we can get you back.

And I think it's like when you can explain to regular people, that element of like, no, you do this too in your job. You just don't think of it as creative. You just think of it as part of the job. But it truly is like that creativity doesn't necessarily have to be the arts. Sure. Nor is it. I mean, human, I've said forever, like humans are inherently creative, whether or not it's artistic. We are not built to work at a gas station.

We're built, you know, we are built to be creative. It's all problems. Yeah. So tell me about the, uh, the horror film that you just got. Or like, how did you get that gig? When did it start? Uh, yeah, it was, um, basically one of the first ADs that I had worked with for a long time, um, got an opportunity where he got to kind of like step up. up and be a line producer on a project and it was definitely, you know, another one of the low

budget kind of things where they're looking to try to, you know, expand and utilize the budget that they have and make it go as far as possible. And, you know, he decided that I would be a good option to help them do that. And it was kind of wild. We went and stayed in to Hatchapie for two weeks um where's that it's like up up north probably an hour and a half or so oh so it's in california it's in californ okay um this is like just far enough away you know that you wouldn't want to drive back and forth every day right um so we got a bunch of air bmbs and you know kind of like little summer camp um where we're all staying together and uh you know it was like camera house and you know everybody was kind of like in their departments in their places so it was a lot of fun um

and then yeah we're just working there every day and kind of like the perfect situation for one of these like low budget shoots is uh you know 80% of the movie is like the guy tied to a chair so there's not a lot of moving there's not a lot of uh you know location changes and relights uh we were able to just come in and kind of like set it up in a way that like I could easily bounce back and forth on either side and just kind of like had all my lights in the sky and I didn't have enough budget to have both the sides lit that I could just turn off and on but we kind of had like there was like a header in the middle of the room and I had a minis arm on it so I can kind of like move that minisarm around and put the light wherever I wanted it. It's kind of like as we flip the key

back and forth either side. So that made us really vast. And we didn't have a lot of pre-production time. So there wasn't a lot of deep diving into the shot list or anything. So I was really able to work with the actors and just kind of like feel it out and, you know, go through these long scenes. Just kind of handheld operating and feeling the moment, pushing in or pulling out. And there's, you know, lots of beating and lots of, you know, action. So there was always times where I'm trying to like get to a certain point to kind of line up the action so it feels like that punch really hits and lands and it just felt like, you know, we were all really in sync with each other.

I felt like they were doing a great job. We had kind of like Coel and Jonathan, the lead actors were also, you know, came from a, had a stunned background or mainly stunned people that were cool, kind of acting, you know, stepping up and acting as the full lead roles in this position. they did a great job and they were just kind of able to continue to nail it all the time and you know they were able to see where the camera was and I was able to make those adjustments and it was like we never we were never really having much of an issue where it's like oh it doesn't feel like that punches landing actually it was like oh man now we have like six angles that it works really well and and it's going to be hard to choose later so hopefully the director danny he also edited as well hopefully he just had a great time in there was able to go

through and pick out whatever he wanted and yeah it was just like it just felt so fun to be just so in tune with the performances and just like nailing certain parts and you know how it's like always had like a little emcee um for an i like because sometimes like rigging all the stuff around sometimes you would get turned in a certain way or the actor would be looking down and i felt like it kind of added to the look to just kind of like have these like really hard pinging eye lights that they had like there was there's sometimes that like jonathan's he's just delivering one of his little monologues of evil or whatever and i'm pushing in and you can just feel that light pinging and like the whole time i'm like yeah yeah cheering not only because his performance

is amazing then also i'm just like looking at that light like yeah it it worked yes yeah because i'm always trying to like make it make the eye light feel really bright and poppy but not have it affect their face right right um so that's always a fun challenge yeah well it's good that he was a stunt guy because i was going to say like two weeks with your hands behind your back your shoulders are going to be cooked i like we also we had to like pull back and be like we don't need you to fall all the time sometimes because you know because they were just so good at doing they were like that's got to hurt i you know let's let's save your arms a little bit yeah anytime we can and so yeah we just had this really good relationship where we're all working very well very

communicating very well and yeah it was just hidden on all cylinders and everybody was having a good time i felt like there was a great vibe amongst the set you know a lot of times you can get into these lower budget situations and everybody staying and they're upset about their uh lodging and upset about the food and and we just didn't really have that kind of issue everybody was pretty well taken care of you know they they did the best they could for us and tried to you know definitely seemed like they were bending over to like take care of everybody's requests and make sure everybody had what they needed. So yeah, I thought it all came out really well on screen and yeah, everybody was having a great time. Yeah, because the, it's interesting, right? Because like

super low budget small crew, annoying. Middle, middle budget small crew, sometimes better than big budget, big crew. Sure. When there's too many people around, you know, it slows you down or it can slow you down, you know, maybe there's too many cooks in the kitchen, too many people by the monitor telling you what to do, what not to do. But there's like, there does seem to be a happy medium where like, granted everyone would like more money, but at least the crew size, like, the smaller you can get to a point is actually optimum versus having every single hand on deck. Yeah, I mean, I definitely enjoy having a big team and like probably I would love to have a huge team. But you're right. Like the small, intimate.

you know everybody's there working hard you know good attitudes everybody's enjoying themselves everybody's like being collaborative and being heard and you know it's just a great experience and i feel like it really comes out on the screen and like you can really feel the vibes on set like later on if it's a good movie usually it was a good vibes on set i'd say yeah so what what uh how what was your crew comprised of who were you in charge of um two and two on two on or actually no I take that back I was it was one in one and then we had a swing so we had Jared was key Jared Jimbrone was a key grip Chris Purdy was the gaffer and Connor Vickers was our swing and then I had Nick Egleston was first AC phone quo was second AC kind of

DIT transfer you know data transfer person and that was that was my team main I had a couple guys that switched in and out, you know, as, you know, if somebody got a commercial or something like that and they had to bounce out. And, um, but yeah, real small, we were able to kind of like come in the first day and get like, like I said, most of the film was lit, ready to go. And then at that point, because you're mostly just in that cabin, right? Yep. Yeah, 100% inside the cabin. I mean, originally we started off and they wanted to schedule us at nighttime. Um, and we got into the, because there was like this huge window.

that was really hard to get to to handle but in the end of the day we were kind of like I think it's better for us to shoot during the daytime and like have the actors and the rest of the crew like be more on top of it and be fresh you know as opposed to like you can you can work nights but two weeks of nights and everybody you know at 3 a.m. you're not making as good of stuff as you could have been making at 3 p.m. you know what I mean? Just people's brains aren't working that way and maybe by week two everybody is now like switched over and caught up

but I think you just generally do better work in the daytime and and you like think if it were me I would be like you're also screwing the next couple gigs they might have you know especially on a low budget you want to get them you know off to work doing the next gig

as freshly as possible you know yeah I mean absolutely but I think it becomes a little bit more work for the grips um but most of them if you talk i think every grip would rather put up like some more solids and tape up some windows then we'll be still up working and well like before the sun comes up you know yeah um and fighting that to get home and it's just like safer for everyone and it's just you can make you can solve these creative problems um in a good way and still like

we made our days made the budget and everybody was just having a good time versus if we were doing it at night and doing overnights the whole time i do not think that it would have been quite so rosy you know um just tempers are things happen differently at night you know so anytime i can push us towards day shoots or splits or anything like that i think uh it's definitely more than worth it um you just get better quality quality product at the end. I mean, we need some more grip. Might need an extra person, but I think it's better than the sun coming up and you didn't

get your scene or something like that happening because, you know, everything starts falling apart around 3 a.m. Yeah. So you guys had the locate. Could you just like leave all the lighting up when you left and come back to it? Yeah. I mean, it was one of those things where like some people were staying at location. Oh, good.

That's security. we had security people luckily there was they had their own areas so we didn't have to do a whole lot I think that like at one point they were getting really hot so they maybe took some of the blacking down and opened windows or something so we would maybe have to reset that in the morning but yeah no we were able to leave it all set up so it was it was definitely a great situation you know we're talking earlier about having time for the director to do stuff like being able to set the room up and to just take me 10 minutes to flip sides we were really able to kind of do whatever we wanted the director had plenty of time to talk and we didn't have a lot of

time for a lot of takes you know probably everything was two or three takes with like the first take being the rehearsal really but i i was really happy with what we had i felt like everybody was dialed in and like we were there are definitely plenty of first takes in the movie that like just went incredible. Like I said, they were just hitting it. The actors, I'm always impressed with the actors,

but certainly like this pair, you know, they just were crushing it. And yeah, taking a beaten and then getting up and coming back with a smile. It was just awesome. They were great to work with.

Yeah. Well, and for people who don't know, the film is basically a kind of a revenge. Would you call it a horror film? I think it's in the horror genre, but it's more like a thriller maybe. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's always a tough. one right. And gore, you know, so like, it's got plenty of horror elements to it. And, you know, but more of a psychological thriller, right, say. And the, and, uh, the main woman has the, uh, main dude tied to a chair and we're getting information.

Basically, yeah. And it's, I mean, it's, it's a lot of fun. It's basically like 80%, uh, he's tied to that chair and they're going back and forth. And he's a big dude and she's a small girl. And it's kind of cool to see that. dynamic and how it plays out through the whole film. Yeah. How were you guys handling the sort of the practical effects and stuff?

You mentioned the gore and stuff. Like there's this one great shot in the trailer where she, it's in the trailer. I'm not ruined anything where she like yanks his tooth out. You got that great like movement to the rack focus. I'm like, yeah. Absolutely. So we, you know,

there wasn't a lot of shots that we were able to really slow down and like go beat for beat and make sure we hit those marks. But that was definitely like from the beginning. one of our targets of like yeah we want to feel that tooth come all the way back into the frame and so we yeah took that time to line that up and you know it was super easy i mean jay just really for that one i just have the tooth in the thing when they pull it and then they just come back to you and it works out great i mean uh we had that we had like roof uh our wardrobe person and the uh makeup artists they were able to really get in there you know there's a time when he like

like, get stabbed with a, like a scapple and there's a bunch of blood. She stabs them over and over in the foot. So they were able to, like, create a new, bringing a fake shoe and a fake leg. And we went real tight on it while she went crazy on it. And then, you know, I've had a lot of like situations where low budget situations where you're, they talk about like, oh, we have a blood person and this is, we're going to do all these rigs and like it's not a very experienced person and the rigs don't usually go you know like you think they're going to go like certainly one time i've had like the nozzle going straight

straight ahead and i'm like you're sure this is going to work and you're sure this is going to work and yeah it's going to work it's going to work it's going to work and stupidly i didn't put anything on the camera oh no uh that nozzle pops right off and it comes right at the camera you know so you learn really quickly to like give time and be ready for those things but they were they were always ready their rigs worked very well you know they had one that was like in a neck that was pumping blood and it looked really good and another one that was like from an axe wound and yeah they just did a great job and it always was well planned out and um you know they would kind of be like where do you want the blood and that's where it went was it primarily just like

makeup and rigging, or did you have, like, fake body parts? For, like, the foot, it was, they didn't have a big, a body part necessarily, but they had, like, put it under their clothes, so it felt like a body part. Right. And then they made, like, a midsection, and they put their wardrobe on it. So they were, like, you know, it was like probably cardboard and stuff inside, but they're doing the stabs and everything. And it worked really well and helped, like, really sell the visceral nature of,

what's happening, you know, to be able to do these close-ups and, yeah, I remember when I was in film school before I went to college, I had this scene where a guy gets shot in the back of the head and I went to Home Depot and I got a pesticide sprayer and I took out the, I took it apart in some way where basically, oh, I took the sprayer off and I just put a big hose and then I just angled the hose under his neck and it pumped up the pesticide spare and then it was time to go, I just pulled it and it just, it's the crazy it looks, it's very Tarantino-esque

like it's so aggressive because it was like 80 PSI behind that thing but it's just red water but it worked out. Yeah, I mean there's so many cool solutions like that that you can come up with and really help push your shots and productions to the next level and yeah, I mean blood's a lot of fun

I feel like I always enjoy blood scenes and, you know, I definitely have plenty of situations where I learned, like, no matter what, cover the camera and you don't know where it's even if they tell you 100% it's going forward, it still might be coming right at you. Yeah. Always be ready. Yeah. Is this the first, like, horror film you there, man? No, no.

I mean, it's probably one of the first ones that's been had like this wide of release. But yeah, I love the horror genre. I mean, like playing with darkness and blood and, you know, I think it's just so much fun. Yeah, it is because I've interviewed a bunch of people who've made horror films in the past, like, month. And I'm not necessarily a horror guy. But it does seem like not only, you know, famously, the audiences are rabid. It's like, that's like a whole, obviously it's a subgenre. But it's like, it's its own.

thing in the film, it seems. You know, you can be a thriller. It's like country music. You know, you can be like, there's a lot of people like, I like all music except country. And then there are people like, I only like country. And I feel like horror films are kind of the same way where it's like, it's a very separate group of people who love that. And it does have something to do, I think, with like how much fantasy is involved, how much

non-reality, even if the things are very, you know, realistic or whatever. It's still very, it's not like a very, a very. well-written trauma. You know, people talking is not the same as people's heads exploding. And you know. And I think that the horror fans are like looking for different things than your normal fans

are like they're forgiving certain things. They, you know, the director had just come off of the film and it was called like bad CGI Gator. And the whole point of this was like that this that the CGI was terrible. So they're like, you know, you'd have like this waddling gator on top of

everything and then the people they're actually they're running they're screaming and it's it's just a good time right as all these horror tropes and all these things that you know and you expect and then this crazy looking gator comes running through and you're you know it's just a lot of fun so like he works for a company that they lean into that and they have a whole subscription base that like I guess they're all their films get released to that base first before they get released everywhere else and it's like a subscription service and you can just you get all these horror movies as they come out you know and it's like from the creators of the they own like the puppet master series right so they're like still making puppet masters you know and like i guess this subscription base just

eats it up that's rad though because that like you know that's uh you get to be the uh the means of production you get to seize the means of production or whatever as a filmmaker you're like yeah we have our fans sure and i think you know something like we're in this weird transition period of uh you know all the studios saying they're not making money and all this kind of stuff and so i feel like that we are kind of like people are looking for like the next way to make money and like i don't know what that is necessarily but i am seeing like a lot of these things popping up that are trying to capitalize on like microchance actions and swiping on the phones and stuff like that. So you're seeing a lot of these Chinese companies that have these vertical programs and they're like soap operas and, you know, maybe like vampires and werewolf kind of soap opera stuff.

And they're kind of marketing to Midwestern Housewives is what they say. And then you pay for the first or you get the first third of the season for free and then you pay. for the next sections of the seasons and then that's kind of like they're building in their profit at least and then you're paying people aren't paying attention to like $125 a month

there's all these little swipes so maybe more money because they're swiping per episode as opposed to paying that overall fee so it's like I do think we're going to see more of this kind of like subscription based thing

especially like with all the indie television and stuff like that companies may be producing this content and then they're producing good enough content that they can get people to sign up and you know watch it like I don't know if you saw tires on Netflix like that was like Shane Gillis the comedian he just made oh that he was the tire shop guy yeah yeah yeah yeah he did that all in his own he paid for it himself he did it and then sold it to Netflix and um mark duplass I forget what the show is called, but he's done something similar. So it just seems like, yeah, like there is a whole indie side of television coming out, too.

So maybe, I don't know. Well, future too. It makes me think of a few things. First of all, the micro transactions thing is fascinating, but man, I keep on having three thoughts at the same time. The micro transaction thing is fascinating. But it's like if you look at the gaming industry, which is not not even exaggerated. like 15 times bigger than the film industry, right?

Way more profitable. Way more. They've been absolutely raked over the coals in the past 10 years, 15 years, for introducing these micro-transact. It used to, you know, back in the day, it was pay to win. You know, you could get like the best gun in the game or whatever if you just gave them 15 bucks. And that was annoying.

And so the studios seem to listen and they're like, all right, fine. We won't do pay to win. But here's all these little things. skins and new whatever, you know, and, uh, or I remember there was like a Star Wars game that came out that was like all the interesting stuff that you wanted or, or even the gambling mechanics, you know, where you, you don't buy a individual skin, you buy CounterStrike, I think invented this unfortunately, but it was like you would win cases and then to open those cases, you would have to purchase keys, you know, and everyone hates it. Everyone hates

it. So I'm, I'm concerned if that becomes the model that people will immediately start to hate it. Because it sounds interesting. You know, it's like all a car, you know, purchases. It's like, okay. But I wonder if that'll be the other thing. But the thing that I was thinking of initially was, uh, I like, I like the idea of people making their own stuff and selling it to Netflix. And I do think that that's probably in the short term, at least, where things are going to go because all these companies are owned by tech people. And tech people only understand two things. one acquisitions and two green arrow go up yep so if they don't have to spend a lot of money and they can just buy tire guys or whatever tires uh maybe that will incentivize that them to

you know seed smaller stuff like go hands off you know all right we'll give you a little money you know maybe they'll pay for half i don't know i'm making this up but like we'll pay for half of it you guys go off and do it and then come back to us when you have a product which would be better for the creators. The more tech people are hands-on, the worst the fucking film's going to be. 100%. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things that I saw some interview with Mark Duplas that he was talking about is just like, it becomes this situation where if when the studio's

paying for everything and the studios pay for all the television show, well, they cancel you and they're ready to cancel you. They order however many, you know, episodes they want. They're in control versus, you know, in this situation, like, you can. continue to make it. And when that person says they don't want to buy it anymore, your hopes is you're going to go sell it to some place else, you know? So maybe it turns into something where

you know, Netflix, the trend was like free season and it's done. Now it's like one. Yeah. Maybe this other this will help have some stuff that hangs on a lot longer. I mean, I don't know. Like DuPlas and even Shane Gillis has plenty of money. So these

guys obviously might be able to fund a TV show easier than other people. But like there are people out there that they can't you can raise money for movies so why not for television shows so i don't know i think that's what everybody is kind of like paying attention to right now is just kind of like where is it going to go from here how are things changing and how can everybody like how can we still be working you know well it's just it's to me it's confusing only because it's like it's worked no like streaming came

about as a easier way to rent movies, basically, right? So you didn't have to physically leave the house. You could just stay. And for some reason, that changed into let's revamp this whole model that's worked for 120 years. And it's like, it seems like whenever a movie comes out that does really well, that was kind of created the traditional way. Everyone goes, really, how'd you pull that off?

And it's like, we did it the same. Nothing is different. You know, like filmmaking is still basically, we just don't shoot on film anymore. That's the one thing I can think of. and we have LEDs. Well, and if the jobs are the same, you know,

the fucking, we still have theaters. We still have DVDs. Like it's, well, like you said, the tech, tech companies are in charge of everything.

And it's all about more money and bigger money. So it's like we're only seeing these huge IP projects that like Marvel and Indiana Jones and all this stuff that they're just kind of like churning over and sending back to us. And I think people are just getting tired of it. And it's like, people aren't going to the movies one because it's expensive and it's you know it is it does cost a lot of money you can have a pretty good experience at home yeah all the of them films i don't think like has really been there like top gun two did well because it was a fucking great movie and everybody came and saw it everybody loved it and that's what like it takes to get people to the theaters and some of these like you know rehash IP things just not getting people out and hopefully we have somebody that comes through and takes a chance and is like all right

why don't we make take instead of making one big 150 million dollar movie why don't we make like you know 35 million dollars movies or something like that and like if three of them do really well you know and make a bunch of money then maybe that makes the same amount that you would have made if you made that one you got a whole lot more things happening kind of like Bloomhouse was doing that right where they would make like six movies a year and they really just needed one of them to do really well to make money because they are all kind of low budget you know so hopefully we can have some stuff like that coming and I think honestly I think we're seeing it truthfully like I you know Marvel and Star Wars just as an

example have been failing ever since the end of end game and you know even the beginning of episode seven and shit but like there's all these smaller movies now granted we're lucky we live in LA and we can, you know, any local AMC is going to have whatever movie only got like a four-day window to be put in the theater. But like, for instance, I just saw the substance. You see that? I haven't seen the yet. Dog, you have to.

Yeah. It's, it is so good. It's, uh, I would call it dark comedy. It's being listed as a horror, but it's kind of like one of those things or it's like, is the bear really a comedy? What? Absolutely not. Yeah. But, um, no, the substance is great.

My girlfriend goes, whatever Barbie was trying to say subtly, this movie is saying with a sledgehammer. And I was like, yes, you are not a feminist if you don't go see the substance. But it's, it's so good. And it's so fucking weird and like the body horror is great, even though it's, again, it's not a horror film. But there is like a lot of like very, very good SFX, not V effect. You know, like physical, whenever, whatever was like, we knew, I wanted to be practical. It's like this whole movie's practical. I mean, and that's what that's what helps it hold up.

I mean, it all should be practical. It looks so much better. Right. Well, and I'm sure there's a ton of VFX in it. You just can't see it. So if there is, it's good. Well, you know, but yeah, it's a lot of fun. But there's movies like that that come out that I know that like aren't getting four walled in the Midwest.

You know, and so we're lucky out here. But it's like, I want to see more of those, those types of films make their way inward before they hit streaming. So that people start to think of films as like an event again and not just an event because. it's Avengers you know sure yeah I mean now we're releasing a lot of the stuff goes straight to streaming at the same time and you're like losing uh you know losing the how big used to be like when the when Batman came out on VHS it was probably just as big of a release yeah it's when it came to the theaters right like so there's they have lost significant ground when it comes to like how much money they could make like when everybody followed Netflix over the streaming cliff

right well and I see a lot of people going like, oh, no one buys Blu-Rays anymore, blah, blah. It's like, yeah, but everyone has like, not everyone, obviously, but like a lot of people, probably mostly men, but have a PlayStation 5 or even a four or any of those Xboxes that have a Blu-ray player built into them. And it's like, if you give them a reason, if it's not just the Blu-ray, if it's got cool special features on it and like a reason to like even collect them or whatever, you can regrow that side of the industry, you know? I would agree with that. I mean, I loved watching the, making of on all the any movie that ever came out. I think they, for a while it was all about like, oh, what's on the disc? What's extra? What are we going to get? And you were excited about all that

stuff. And now it's like a partner, an accompanying documentary that plays after the show. Right. Yeah. And those are always just ads too. Those don't feel like making zubs. They're just like, here's an interview with the actor and they're like, I had so

much fun. And then the credits. And you're like, you gotta be fucking kidding me yeah because it's for the main the big audience it's really just to get people to come watch the next episode it's not about like us getting on nerdy in there and having like the director's commentary and watching that through the whole thing and like listening to what they said about every moment in the movie i mean that was like a really cool experience that we don't have any but to your point i think uh it's actually better to get put nerdy stuff at the end like that because if the audience if the general audience is asking why should I go to movies or do this when I have video games at home or TikTok or whatever

which I have a mild disagreement with people saying that like oh people only watch TikTok now but or YouTube but kids kids are but again you give them a reason right so if the audience is saying give us a reason to watch this and their only frame of reference is the quality of the film you know it's only you know big movies or whatever whatever if at the end of these TV shows you're putting making of docs that show just how much work goes into this they will appreciate it more I mean it's the same thing I was saying like when I got like really into baseball it took a lot of like knowing intricacies before I found it not boring sure you know like or even being told like oh no cheating is actually part of baseball it's not cheating it's like that it's like that's

part of the game you're like what what did you say so if you ain't cheating you ain't trying. Right. But it's like for any other sport, that's no. But for baseball, that's actually part. And when you start to know these things, you appreciate it more. Same thing with film. I think people think they know everything there is. Oh, fancy camera. Oh, rich actor. You know, it's like, but that's not the truth. The truth is this other thing. And I think if you show them, they'll be more interested.

I'd watch it. Yeah. What have you been? What's the last thing you saw? I know I saw Beetlejuice I'm trying to think if I saw something else I liked Beetle juice I thought that was fun I enjoyed it you know it was a fun sequel tonally completely different than the first one

yeah I enjoyed like kind of like comparing the photography and the lighting of the two right like no RGB full RGB like everything is RGB every scene and I thought like

I was wondering how they were going to do it and I thought it was like because I'm always struggling with RGB to like not make it feel like poppy too saturated and like it's very fine line of like this color looks good or no this color looks really terrible and it's just

like five points on a slider or something that makes that difference I think they did a really good job of like keeping all those crazy colors and I guess trying to make them as bright as they did just kind of washed them out a little bit and I felt like it felt really natural and really cool and well maybe not natural

but like natural for they fit the scene yeah their world not you know we don't have purple in nature you know coming everywhere but it was a lot of fun was there another sequel that came out I feel like I was comparing a different sequel

that I didn't like as much and I did that one recently but I mean yeah there's a bunch but I don't know That's all we have in sequels. Yeah, I will say, so Beetlejuice was shot by a dude named Harris, Zambar Lucas, who was Ken Branagh's DP, and I interviewed him last year, like, like, 100 episodes ago. And that man is like, first of all, speaking of, like, voices that you want to do audiobooks, he is just, like, I forgot I was supposed to ask questions because I was just like, listening.

Yeah, just tell me more, Harris. Um, but that man is like crazy smart. Like I, it, it doesn't surprise me that he like was able to make that all work and look the way it's supposed to because he he he's got that, you know, he's one of those people that I'm sure didn't have to do. I mean, I think he went to like AFI and shit, but like, uh, it feels like it comes so naturally to him. Like he just understands it. It's not like I had to when I was learning it was something I realized is I have to make this so that. I can explain it to an idiot because I'm the idiot. So once I could explain it and have it make sense to a wall, now I knew I understood it, you know? And for him, it seems like it's just like it happens.

Second nature. Yeah. Which I'm sure it takes training, but some of those guys, man, they're just that smart and they're great at like technology and, you know, formulas and all that stuff is just up there in their head. It's pretty impressive. I wish I had it all on recall like that But I'm better with like feeling it more than I am like

Telling you the exact formula for the inverse square Oh, that's the thing is he's I think he's all feel it I think you guys are probably closer where it's like he he just he instinctively knows what to do I don't think he's a very tech-minded person I don't I don't remember but he felt more like he just kind of understood it You know I mean that's you just keep doing it every day and like I kind of feel like I'm always, you know, looking at everything at 800 ISO and, you know, that's it. My head is always there and then I work from there to whatever ISO I actually am at, you know, just because like every camera space is usually 800 these days.

Yeah, you know what's funny? I was testing the C80 for about a month and I found, I don't know if it's just that camera because I didn't do any tests after this, but because that camera is known for being very, like it's got the triple base ISO and it can fucking do anything. I'm the same way. My brain goes ISO 800. But I found that at least in dark scenes, 3200 is pretty much all you got to go.

And it's like when people go like, oh, I can't even get past 8,000 on this thing without looking grainy. It's like, are you filming in the desert at night? Like if you just have a light, like 3200 seems to be what your eye sees. And any more looks fake.

Well, it's interesting too when you have all the, when you have all those different bases, you can go up to a higher base and then come back down. So you're actually like cleaning it up a little bit, right? And that worked. And that's a great idea. And I never really think about it until,

you know, sometimes like the AC will be like, oh, let's switch things. And I'm like, ah, why am I not thinking about that? Like,

you know, every camera has base two ISOs these days. But like, yeah, so it's pretty impressive. No, that was literally the base 800 was no longer. was noisier than going to 3,200 and dropping.

Yeah. And at least on the C80, I noticed that it didn't really sacrifice any highlight detail, at least not that I could tell. Yeah. I don't have like a Xyla chart, but, you know. From the, from my eye, I mean,

I have not really noticed many things changing as you're switching from the high base to the low base or back and forth. Yeah. Reason not to. Going back to whatever that sequel was that I didn't like as well. Yeah. Joker. Oh, yeah.

I heard that was not good. Unfortunately, I mean, like, cinematography is pretty wonderful. Oh, sure. Yeah. It's a very sure, baby. It looks great. And it, you know,

it had like almost everything you wanted it to have, except like, I don't know, him blowing up part of the city. So I feel like even if they just had like one song of him just like doing crazy in his head and like giving everybody that big crescendo, then people would have been. been a lot happier um i mean i i i heard and this is total fucking hearsay like i don't this

did not come from a qualified source or anything but i but i guess because the first joker like gained an audience in a subsect of people who wanted to emulate it instead of just watch it as a movie or whatever um todd phillips was like all right well guess we're going full opposite direction for you idiots you know I mean that's what it's all about is like the audience is the bad guy yeah which like same thing happened with the Matrix 4 like I love the Matrix is absolutely one of my favorite movies all time and when I walked out a Matrix 4 I was like well I'm glad Lana got her FU to WB in there but I feel like I was

getting picked on definitely it definitely feels like they kind of turn on the base and like this is this is what made you popular and what everybody liked so like you can turn on it but like you won't be as popular but see that at least with the matrix that was the thing was like as far as I'm aware they were like we're going to make this with or without you so she was like all right well then you're making it with me and I'm burning this to the ground which is very punk rock but uh it was uh it again it did feel like well as a fan I did because I was not clamoring for a fourth matrix but when they announced it I was like oh Okay. And I start like getting excited, you know, and then I kind of got kicked in the mouth a little bit. But again, I especially now that I'm older, I do understand like, you know, you got to center the creator in these instances where it's like if that was what you meant to do, then I'm stoked. If this was if this was bad because like the studio got involved in whatever, then that blows, you know. But as long as you put on screen exactly what you wanted, then you know, good.

It just wasn't for me. One of my first thoughts was kind of like, I wonder what it was like for Larry Scherer to read that script. And like, what does he say at that point? Is he have to like, do you have to say that you love that new direction or like, I'm sure it was probably still. I mean, he could have said no. That's true. Well, I don't think he would have though.

That's always. So. And that's like he loved like for him. I mean, the look of the movie. I mean, the look is wonderful. I mean, it's like, it's a great film. it's like looking film it's a great the set pieces and like I want to shoot a musical I wanted to shoot one before then but I even more so after seeing it just like so much fun like playing

with the lights and you know going in and out of the worlds and I just felt like for me if you're going to put Lady Gaga in there like you should have a lady like there should be at least one song that's like a really good single right and not just a jukebox musical and so like I don't know My wife was like, well, they were trying not to, like, make it about her. And I was like, I think they should have made at least one song about, let her rip on least one of them. Yeah, they're doing a great job. But that's how you're going to win an Oscar. Look at the Starsborn.

Exactly. You need, you want that song to let it, let it rip. And, you know, that's why you hired her. Like, so. Yeah. The, uh, the one thing that this brings up is the number of movies that I've seen come out recently. Well, specifically ones that don't advertise. it's a musical and then it is. It's happened like four times now.

But just like the trailers are either the exact same thing. You know, it's the remixed hit from the 90s set slow, you know, and then there's the and it fades and it goes, and then it comes back and it's like the same fucking trailer every time and they give away everything. Or it's it has nothing to do with the movie. Like they're selling you on something and you end up. I'm like, that's how you make people mad at you. Even if the movie's good, people are signing up to your point about, like, the CGI Gator. If you tell people it's a CGI Gator movie, people are going to, people who want to see it are going to go, hell yeah.

If you tell people it's a really good, like, Gator movie and then it's bad C Gator. And they're like, fuck that. That's terrible. Exactly. It's the intent. Yeah. You got to let the audience buy into it, you know? The audience isn't dumb.

We're making them dumb by withholding stuff from them. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we assume that they are. It's just like some marketing person who's like, you know, musicals don't do well. Well, that's because you market the musical the same way every time. It's like, it's not that kind of musical. You have to have a different type of marketing for it, you know. Well, and the whole like do well thing, again, is like the tech industry people who, because what's the, I don't know if you know, but like the, the term for hitting all four quad,

is it a four quadrant movie where it's like men, women, young and old? something like that I mean I don't know about that since it's it still is very like Batmany and oh no no I just meant like there's a term for trying to get all four quadrants whatever those whatever those things like

because you know it'll be like men 18 to 35 or what you know the right demographic of yeah but no one seems to want to make movies for a demographic they're trying to make a movie for all of them and it's like don't do that doesn't work yeah i mean and you people should be able to see that like when you make a

a movie for a specific group then usually everybody likes it you know exactly universal because it has all those things versus like trying to make it for everybody and then nobody likes it you know yeah for instance using the substance as an example like that is absolutely a not subtle um you know take down of uh the way that women experience the world through the male gaze, essentially, if you were to be very reductive. And it's like, I've never been on the receiving end of that, obviously. But because it was, again, not subtle, so it was easy for my dumb, dumb brain to come up with. But because it had its point, and it was for the audience that is receptive to that message,

it works, right? If they tried to make it cool where they were like, and that one actually, I don't want to ruin it. All right. There's a lot in there that I think does help widen. But at a certain point, it kind of has the Joker problem. We're like, if you like this part of it, not understanding the irony, then you are the problem. Well, I mean, but it's still in there. It's a, yeah, it's a good time.

Where can people see your movie? It's actually out on all platforms. It's free on Tooby. So that's probably the best place to go check it out right now So then you can watch it for free and it's all there And yeah What do you mean all platform like literally like Netflix and Amazon Actually I guess it's not all platforms

There's a lot of platforms It is Amazon Apple TV, Google Only Netflix it's not on Netflix But basically anything you can pay to rent It's there Gotcha So yeah all those Amazon Apple

Google 2B is the free one so that's probably the one that I would go check out hell yeah yeah well hopefully people go see it because there's more horror fans than ever before so I definitely like you said earlier you that you were doing a lot of horror when I was in the theater I think it was for Beetlejuice I just I noticed I was like it's a lot of horror movies out like I felt like all the big horror movies all the movies, big movies recently have been horror or horror-esque, right? You had like the terrifier. Terrifier.

You had like the, um, Night Shyamalan one with his daughter and, oh, sure. You know, um, and Beatle juice is just like horror comedy, you know, it's more comedy, but it's definitely has like, you know, a horror slant to it maybe. It's got a toe in the horror waters. Yeah.

Um, and just kind of like, it seems like, I don't know, maybe that's where the culture is right now is enjoying horror movies or at least that's what's they're releasing to us and we're supposed I think it I think it all has to do with escapism right like no one if you I'm granted we're close you know it's October so that's when you're going to be releasing horror films and stuff but it's been all year but also I think if you just look around most people are exhausted by general life and so if you go watch a movie that is a really like heart wrenching dramatic story of something that might not hit right now.

But like a horror film is so outside of reality that you can that you can't actually just escape even if it's terrifying or whatever. Down home stories are too close to home. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You get away with these other ones. I mean, that's a good point. I mean, there is a lot of messed up stuff going on. Yeah.

With everything, I just wish that for my entire life, you couldn't always say with everything going on in the world. that's there's always some since 1990 there's always with everything going on and we're so connected that like even if there's nothing happening anywhere near you there's something happening somewhere so there yeah our world is like you should care yeah it's like I do care but there's not much I can do exactly give me more money and maybe I could donate it somewhere yeah and it keeps getting higher yeah well uh movie does look sick man by the way didn't even compliment you on it but even just

the trailer was just like it's like fuck yeah you got you got to do it because I remember when we talked about beyond belief I was like we can't even show people this unless they're in Germany but that's actually coming out that's coming out for another

like they're re-releasing some of the stuff in Germany on the 31st and first so if you're in Germany watching you can I think there are some German listeners there's at least like two or three in every country if I look at the analytics but uh you know so for those two people there's beyond belief stuff so that might have helped pick pick up the German uh in German audience

either that or a David Hasselhoff yeah yeah dude um right on well uh thanks for hanging out man I'll let you go but uh yeah let's uh probably have to finish this game we'll see where we can meet up and watch the rest of the series sounds good to me man and uh glad to see that you've been doing so much work uh lately too getting out shooting so much and all the comedy stuff, so. Yes. Oh, yeah, you should definitely come down for one of the comedy shows. If you're, if you're free on the seventh, that's actually a very good show coming up. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I have a job on six, but I should be good.

So you'll post it on, uh, in, uh, in school or something. Yep, cool. All right. See you soon, bud. I'll see you later. Bye. Frame and references an owlbot production. It's produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan, and distributed by Pro Video Coalition.

like to support the podcast directly, you can do so on Patreon by going to frame and refpod.com where you can get all the episodes and clicking the Patreon button. It's always appreciated. And as always, thanks for listening.