Frame & Reference Podcast - 215: "V/H/S Halloween: House Haunt" Cinematographer Sean McDaniel

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

On the program this time we've got Sean McDaniel, DP of the "House Haunt" segment of the new entry into the "V/H/S" franchinse, V/H/S: Halloween.Enjoy!► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠F&R Online ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support F&R⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Produced by Kenny McMillan► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ► ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Hello, and welcome to this, episode 215 of Frame and Reference. You're about to drop into a conversation between me, Ken McMillan, and my guest, Sean McDaniel, DP of the Home Haunt segment of VHS Halloween. Enjoy. Yeah, actually my buddy, Powell also shot one of the DHS clear. Yeah, honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we met a little, we all shot in L.A. around the same time. Well, not all of us, but they did one size in our section. So I got to meet him while they were shooting.

We were scouting one of the locations, actually, the same day they were shooting at night. And then he was at fantastic fest, which I was just that. So we got to hang out a little bit more. He's awesome. car yeah he's he uh like i don't know it must have been like four months ago maybe even more it was a while ago he was like hey man do you still have your xl 2 and i was like uh yeah and he goes can i borrow that we want to shoot something with it and i was like okay so i lend it to him don't hear from him forever and then like a few weeks ago he sends me a photo and he's like we used it for the

film out it's like yeah all right i didn't even i wasn't sure because like i knew it still works But I went out, I got that in high school. But when I was in college, my buddy borrowed it and, uh, I thought he broke the tape deck. So I really know how they did the film. I'll have to ask him at some point, but. Oh, so yeah, they didn't, they didn't go to tape. They just ran it through the camera and then went into straight through like Da Vinci and recorded digitalists. So they were like, they were still running it through the camera, but it never actually went to tape.

He was talking about. There's an input. I guess so. I don't know. I did see the photo he sent me showed it was they were aiming it at a computer screen. So I'm wondering if they were just filming the computer screen. I think, yeah, but I think they weren't actually. But then like whatever it was sending out to was recording digitally and through.

Because that was the other piece I gave him was the S video to HDMI adapter that I found. Okay, there you go. Yeah. So you would have that they were doing. I have the reason he knew about it is because I had this YouTube video up. that was using my Odyssey 7Q plus to record the XL2. It's like the most min-max to set up possible. Did he, did you guys use that?

Did everyone use that or just his thing? No, just his. We're 70s and 80s and there, I think, more of like a 90s, but we, I guess, funny because like we three of the same, all the L.A. segments shot in the same neighborhood street at RSI. And they split it up, so there's a segment in between each of us. So hopefully, but also I feel like it kind of works because like we're 80s, their 90s, and fun size was kind of present day.

It's just like a really haunted neighborhood. It's just, you know, all this bad stuff happens. Yeah, no, everyone had, I think a lot of, it's maybe Kiprint is the only one that's like similar. No, they're in between. I think everyone kind of is on a different camera system for this, like in kind of different eras, yeah. Gotcha. But it was all emulate.

Did anyone actually shoot whatever? Yeah, a kid print. They shot on, I forget what tape format it was, but they actually did, yeah, yeah. They were practical. We had, we had too much VFX and trying to, you know, monitor with, you know, the amount of stuff we're doing in the day and have SFX be able to see in costumes and everything.

It's just like, it didn't really make sense for us. but yeah what nowadays the use seem to be very interested in replicating i mean they're all buying like if you go on ebay they're all buying up um dd cams they're like thousands of dollars now like i'm wondering if i should sell my ex up to this year yeah i have to the i actually so you're talking about malon we so that's the only little bit of found footage i had done for vhs and just the very beginning of malum the cult is like kind of document mentoring some other stuff from the past and that was on my old mini dv room like middle school and high school and everything uh and it still works or anything so yeah maybe i should pop on and

sell the thing off yeah i mean the tapes like i'm surprised people are still finding tapes oh yeah that's true i luckily just had extras that were somehow you know fine i's got like three i don't know why like just laying around well you know you just buy like i'd get like a you know 10 pie or whatever or something like to be back from Best Buy or something. Be like, all right, I'm good to go for a while. So, yeah, there's some leftovers sitting around. With, this is actually an interesting thought. Because, like, I've mentioned this before in other interviews,

but like doing, like, talking about how good the kids have it. You know, like old man screaming at clouds. Because, you know, I always boil it down to basically having 24P, being able to use real lenses and, um, recording to SD cards or like regular cards versus like P2 or whatever you couldn't find. But using your old DV camera but with your today brain, like what how do you make DV look like film? Because when we used to say look like film quote unquote, it was more that we wanted it to look professional, not like photochemical film. Yeah. Like how did how do you

going back to that tool like did you think like oh actually we could work with this if I just knew better yeah no well yeah it was fun going back and looking at like old stuff like for Malam I pulled up some old stuff I had shot just to yeah like see what that was looking like

and what I was doing at that time but I mean the interesting thing for the found footage like for Malam I was just trying to operate like the person in that cult's wood and so you know we already knew and that character appears in the film later and she's a wild one uh so uh you know i figure she was reveling and all of the the horror of any of the people on their face was who they have brought

forcefully to come join them um so that was that was kind of the main mindset for those sections is just thinking about her really wanting to to capture all that and but it yeah it is odd for something like dhs it's tricky because you're thinking about at least for ours we're but okay we want to operate like you know the different characters would but then also you're still trying to tell a story and build scares and tension uh and the whole back half of ours is supposed to feel like a oneer so you're trying to to make things make sense and feel justified but also build all that tension so that is uh a fun challenge that I thought was pretty enjoyable and yeah led to a lot of like playing and trying things on uh on the day yeah I did have a note that like

the one thing that was the least realistic about it wasn't the monsters it was the fact that this kid was rock steady filming because i don't know if you get on like ticot but if someone gets in a car accident the camera's up here you know yeah no one ever films the interesting part i know yeah there are a few moments where it's like someone walked close to camera and you're like looking at their shoulder or their their chin or whatever but it's true it's like yeah the all the all the hero moments of kids getting ripped in half that's like well we're probably going to see that one pretty much it would make a pretty bad movie if you if you if you if the filming character was realistic yeah it is it was really yeah tricky and like it's true it does

fall away definitely more when we get into the maze but it did try to add in as much as i could in the earlier portions when they're just you know filming their home movies and going to the antique shop on stuff, like, okay, let's try to make it feel rushed. Or remember that people don't turn off the camera on a good frame. They tilt down or they turn away. And so we would even, here she comes. We'd even make notes about that in the shot list of like, okay, remember to end this or start this on a poorly frame shot, you know.

So that way it was right in the air. But yeah, once you get into the maze, it's like, all right, we got to lock in it. Do it up. Yeah, we've got to do it up. Get all the four stuff going. I did like the camera getting kicked around. Oh, thank you. Yes.

That was one of my favorite. We were watching the old, just all of the old VHSs and just trying to think of like, because, you know, I'm not used to shooting something within a series like that. And so I think that our main references really were just like old footage of haunts and Halloween stuff from the 70s and 80s. And then just the franchise itself. And we were thinking like, oh, I don't think I'd really seen something where the camera got like kicked around through a whole scene and the chaos. And the executioner scene, we're like, oh, that's perfect for that. So I spend a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to make a little rig for that.

But to keep us really low to the ground, give us maximum control. Tested out a few things that were like actual legitimate pieces of grip here that were great. But they were a little too big and they caught money. So we were just like, ended up getting a piece of wood, got some little, I mean, I guess you'd call them casters, but they were just metal ball bearings inside a piece of plastic. for like putting on under appliances you know so you can spin your coffee maker around or something like little lazy susan pads kind of yeah yeah there was a metal ball bearing inside just a plastic housing so just put those on the bottom of a piece of wood so that way it barely lifted it uh and then it was just a bunch of baby nail plates and gobo heads and you know uh but it worked you got the jumps on it sounded terrible but uh they're gonna they're gonna make all that sound better later anyway so yeah the uh how do you how do you make because obviously it's supposed to look it's found footage how do you make that look good while still looking bad yeah that was a constant me and my

gap are always talking about that with the uh lighting and just every everything really um yeah it was tricky i mean i think i just tried to think of it as okay we're just going to light things naturally and just like the space. You know, so much of it's just moving through. And I like to work that way anyway for starting. And then, you know, as you move in inevitably, you're going to start bringing things in. But it was like, okay, this time we just won't do that, you know, like it was pretty much just every time we would, you know,

pretty like the space and dial it in and then maybe small tweaks on the day. And then there's a couple moments where we maybe brought in a little unit for buying somewhere here or there. But I think that was a big part of it is just like, light it and then we're all just going to run through it and just have to embrace whatever it is for the most part and and let that be that um could you have to get too precious with it I think that would definitely start to make it feel overly done um and then yeah it was just like the operating too like trying again like we're talking about earlier like trying to make it feel

purposefully messy where I could and then balance that with still telling a story and you know we're not fooling anyone anymore right like I feel like Blair witch that's never going to happen And again, especially on something that's a franchise like this. We're not going to, no one's going to think we found this loft tape somewhere. So I think it's, you know, just thinking of it as an aesthetic choice and not something that's actually trying to 100% mimic the, the look of that footage. So we ended up doing, yeah, we did shoot on, we was shot on FX9 for most of it. And then we did use the Red Commodo S for the sequence.

with flashing lights just so we have the global shutter. So, yeah, all of our look, we did do a print the tape as the test. And I think everyone thought it just was a little too aggressive, especially for a lot of the dark scenes. You know, everyone's doing such great work. And you do want to see that detail. And everyone, you think you know what VHS looks like. And it's like, well, did you see a really degraded tape?

Did you see, you know, it has all these options. So we ended up just doing ours in post. And I thought that worked out well. We kind of had two looks, a softer look and a heavier look. And we would kind of use it scene dependent. So, yeah. Yeah, were you just using the inbuilt tools and resolve? Art colors, yes.

Yeah, yeah. We did just, I forget the name of their, like, filters they have in there. But it looks great. Like they have so many, they have way too many options. They do. And like, that's the thing when I'll see online, like kids asking for like, oh, how can I achieve this effect? it's always achieved.

How can I achieve this effect? I'm like literally the JPEG damage and like the scan lines effects in Resolve look at least what your memory of tape is because exactly like you're saying like it can look pretty shit. Pretty fast. Yeah, it could go bad fast. I mean, that was the crazy thing.

We're shooting mini VV for Malam. I was kind of amazed actually how good that looked when we started shooting it. I was like, oh, this looks too good. In my mind it looks, it would look worse. So I think we actually even degraded that a little bit, too, in post, if I remember correctly. But yeah, the VHS does look really bad like it. The loss of, you know, resolution, obviously, and in detail, I think was the biggest thing for us.

So we tried to find a nice balance as keeping that, but, you know, putting in enough of the signifiers that your brain just goes, okay. And also we're 16.9, we're not four three. So it's like we're also not, we're not going to fool anyone. XL2 shot 169. Native 16. When was that? I'm trying to remember what 2006? 2005. Okay. Okay. So yeah, because we're like early 80s. So that was unfortunately. But yeah. I just remember it being a big deal because I believe the DVX, the 100, cropped the sensor and the X2. Maybe the XL one, but the XL2 for sure had a native 169 sensor. So when you shot 4.3, it would actually crop inward. Oh, I'm just. You were better served film. the whole end. Everyone was very excited about that.

I don't remember. It's funny. I don't know how I missed that. I feel like I didn't really shoot on that camera. And I'm not sure, like, why. Like, I don't know what I was, you know, I think of it was doing one at the time. I think the DVX was cheaper. I think it had come out first. So the more people had it. And it was a camcorders to the, like, obviously the lens and everything was built in.

At the time, Panasonic was kind of a bigger. name in video cameras and canon. I think it was that. I think a lot of film schools had already bought DVXs. That might be. I can't even remember what we used in undergrad at the film school. I know I had, yeah, my little mini TV and didn't really upgrade for that I could just get whatever they had. And I know I shot, I was like shooting at a local, like a local ABC affiliate at the time for the news stuff.

And that they had just got the P2. It was like Sony's with the P2 cards. yeah um so that was great i really liked that but yeah but we were shooting on the school i don't think it was yeah that camera when we uh when did you graduate college uh uh undergrad would have been 08 oh okay because i i started in 08 so we're a little off shifted but like i think my sophomore maybe my junior year they got five d's okay that was a big deal well yes yeah Because now we could have nothing in focus. Exactly.

I feel like we're only finally starting to come out of that a little bit, maybe. Now we've got the Fuji, you know, we've got the medium format sensors coming out and stuff. So now we can go right back to nothing being in a artist again. On the sensor side, we're getting out of it. I mean, that was the thing for this too. It was like it was weird because it was shooting FX9 full frame that I wanted a wider field of view. But then I was fighting against myself because I'm like, well, I don't. want it to be super shallow focus for VHS so then I shot at the high at the 4,000 base ISO so

that then I could really just stop down so I felt bad for the for my Gaffer I'm like well I didn't really gain us anything back we're just gonna do it like a five six or an eight uh but we'll just be lighting like we normally would thanks for like a you know a two eight or four or something so um that was odd but it was helpful to have the larger formats because the way our sets and I knew where I've worked with these directors with the are. I knew we were going to want to shoot wide and we're in such tight spaces. And we also don't want to be on such wide lenses that you're feeling that the story shouldn't because that also know who makes sense for VHS as well. So it was a weird like fighting against ourselves

and then also it was working with. So yeah, it's just another interesting wall down footage challenge. You know, uh, when the C500 mark two came out, I actually got, I got the either the first or second one in the country. I got serial number. eight. But I went to the rental house over here and we did a video where we tested that, the FX9, the Venice and the mini LF. And we were just kind of comparing and contrasting the various. And they're all good, but I remember us all being kind of underwhelmed with the FX9. And then a few weeks ago, I was watching some YouTube video that a guy made comparing like the FX6, the FX9, a mini, and maybe the three. And they didn't tell you, I mean,

you know, it was like a blind taste test. And I was like, oh, well, that one looks the best. Because I, I've trained myself not to say that's the mini or that, you know, but I was like, that one got to do best. And it was the FX 9. And I was like, oh, shit. The guy, yeah, got me. But so why, why did you? Because obviously they don't even make the 9 anymore.

It didn't seem to do well. And I hope I wasn't, not the thing, but one of the reasons why, because I have a video got a lot of views. But why pick the 9 over like the 6 or even the 3? Yeah, is that not for a loser. I know. Well, yeah. So I'm actually like you, so I, if I have my choice, I'll shoot on Alexa. But it's not.

I actually do like the Canon cameras quite a bit. I think ever since the C300 Mark 3, I thought they really sound like a great place with those cameras. I mean the body style of those, the three. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So, no, yeah, the FX series that I was actually not why it is familiar with. But I wanted to go, yeah, go Venice with Rialto mode, backpacks of a really small camera. That would have made sense, yeah.

Move around for sure. But everyone else needed that money more than we did. And so the FX9 was available. They have, we shot at a studio kind of in Burbank that had a lot of gear and everything as well. And so we had our production offices out of there. They were building our sets there. And there was a certain amount of lighting and grip. year and a pretty well-stocked camera room.

And so the FX-9 and a lot of those lenses and all that year was there and it was available and basically kind of like three included with the stages. So it was like, okay, that makes sense. Let's, you know, put that money towards these sets because we had to build a lot of them. And, you know, it did, like I was saying, what we needed to do. Like, give us the full frames. We got the wider field of view, shoot at a higher base ice dough so I can shoot a deeper stop. But it was a little bit bigger of a camera builds than I'd wanted.

We just put that in a stock that like G, Sony G series, 28 and so 135. But it's great because it has the servo doom and let me do that. And we're, you know, like, okay, that's awesome. You know, it only shoots to a four, but I'm like, I'm trying to shoot at a five, six, or an eight anyway. And again, yeah, we don't want this looking like it's the greatest, you know, I'll send him a glass on here. We did have a Lawa, I think they ended up going with a 12 millimeter, just in case that we would throw on here and there and a couple other lenses.

If we needed to get a little wider than the 28, but the majority is on that lens, really. And it was good, yeah. I mean, again, smaller would have been great. Like, at the day we were doing the stuff with the Komodo X was, I loved that because I was just, but we just put a couple of little handles on it that we did put the prime on just for that and that was often just running around it's real light and free i will say the the old 80s vhs bodies were pretty big so last year everything yeah fx9 kind of fits roughly that form factor yeah much too bad i just didn't want it to feel like fully shoulder mounts it's like a big heavy camera that you know like Those chambers were still pretty light.

I was also trying to think, I can't remember the model of it, but there was one that came out later that was like that weird narrow body. And it wasn't actually a VHS tape, but it went to a tape that you could then, like, put it into VHS. And I had a little viewfinder on the side. Yay. It was like that. Red.

Yeah, yeah. So like, it was a little questionable as for like what time we, like, it could be whatever we wanted ultimately. But I was like, maybe this dad is really into filming all this stuff. There's a world where he has that. I think actually at the end of the most recent conjuring, what the dad is filming something. I was like, oh, hey, that's the camera that I was like.

It's the one with the lens cap that was always swinging on the bottom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just a weird little form factor. I kind of likes that, especially for the kick rig, because I was like, oh, if we're in our mind, the percent and that's the camera because of the viewfinder kicking out that way it would give you a panted angle if it fell on the grounds. Sure.

I just likes that as the justification for it. staying upright while it's getting spun around and all of a sudden nice. But if we make, you know, in my mind, he got a heads up and was able to grab that camera early. Yeah. The, uh, talk to me about pre-production on this because I know, uh, for VHS at least, the, I know that, um, a lot of obviously every, everyone's got a part. There's like five or six, um, shorts. And then a handful of them filmed here in L.A. and then some other ones filmed elsewhere and stuff.

But you're all operating with the same budget, it sounds like. So, like, how do you work on your thing while also not really knowing what everyone else is doing, but also having to sort of nevulously work with everyone else? And that's like a week. Yeah, yeah. So everyone has, like, a five day week to shoot. And then, yeah, whatever budget shared across everybody.

And then, yeah, so we, so the L.A. crew was coochie coochie poo fun size and us and they i don't think it was originally the plan but it ended up happening where we were staggered by one shot a week there was a week off and the next one shot a week off but that week off was just crap for the next was a crew uh and then we were last so we were the last ones to shoot out of any of them including the wraparound um and so yeah so we everyone was working in those like same stages and production offices so it was really nice because everyone's still kind of around, like doing stuff. So when we were prepping the fun size career, we'll have their art team building stuff

on the stages and you could go in and see and then while we were prepping our team was already building on the stages, which was really great to have production offices right there. You can just pop in if they had a question on anything to mention. There's a couple things on a couple doorways where I was like, oh yeah, no, we need to switch like where the hinges are and where that swings, just thinking about angles and everything. So that was really helpful. I mean, for me and the directors, as soon as I knew that they were doing the project, it was before the script was even written.

So we were just talking about their different ideas and what things could be. And then once they'd written scripts, we started shot listing very early. And then they do storyboards. And so they were starting on that. So that time we got into like proper prep, we were already shot listed. A lot of boarding had happened. And so that way we could really die. into like working with all the departments and making sure everyone was clear. I mean,

this one was just pretty crazy. We have three, three big set builds. And then a couple locations that had the bones of a set there. But then the arts team really did a lot of work as well to flesh those out. And then yeah, a couple different exterior, you know, daytime nights. It kind of had everything. All these gags, kids. So it was just a lot, a lot of meetings with everybody. And the great thing is that a lot of the core production team does carry over between them. So, like, he just came off of doing two other ones. And so they're already in the flow and they know, you know, what all the basic stuff we need just to even get any production going, but specifically a BHS, they are like already in it and like crimes. So that

is super helpful. It's just like a nice environment, having everyone. I almost felt like film school again like everyone's doing their thing running around bump into people in the hallways of the you know the sound stages in the buildings hey hey see what's going on with them so it was yeah really nice nice way to work yeah yeah i think i think i've heard something similar to that about the uh enjoyment of having the production offices where you're shooting especially a lot of indie uh features that happens a lot but just in general i think it it was some it might have been like a tv show but I think with the discussions of like where is the film industry going like are we fucked yada yada yeah there does seem to be a lot more of that sentiment and I'm like well these stages aren't going anywhere if they'll bend the knee and let people rent them for a more affordable price yeah I think the second someone gets a taste of that where they're like oh everyone's in the same room very big better decisions I think it was severance but in any case um oh yeah they were just all in yeah all in the same area or something I'm pretty sure But in any case, I think people will be like, actually, you know what, let's fight for that again.

Because I assume people just got used to not, you know, everything's thrown everywhere. Yeah, scattered around. I mean, I don't know. But I'm, I'm just on hearsay. I'm, yeah, I mean, I'm not used to that. Like, we were all, we found a real abandoned police station and we just shot in that for a lot of it. And so we didn't always have access to that because the city still controlled it. So we got to go in a handful of times for shirt for initial scouts and the techs and for me and the director to get in there and think about shots and everything.

But yeah, I haven't quite had the freedom of and because they were all shooting before us, you know, even if they were doing stuff, I could pop in. So like something like the kick rig being able to just pop into the stage, build it out, like try it out, like shoot tests, just whenever we wanted to, I think was really helpful. I don't know how some of that stuff. I don't think it would have been as good or as nailed down ahead of time if we hadn't had the ability to get in there. Same thing with lighting, you know, lighting those stats, especially the cemetery and the witch's bog. They were great stages, but they, you know, we were trying to put something huge in there.

And so we were like right up to the lines and trying to figure out how I just, there was no way I was going to get a light far in us and get the spread I needed in the throw. And so that was our biggest concern going into it. And like after I'm just trying to figure out what's going to be the best option. So having the stages there just to be able to bring things in and test and just see for ourselves, you know, weeks and weeks ahead of time before we're there on the day. It was immensely helpful. And we ended up just getting a 27 inch convex like safety mirror like we'd see in like a parking garage or whatever and just bounce into that. And it was great. It gave us all the spread and where we needed. So.

that worked out too much spread actually we ended up having to really cry to like wrap it in because also the grade was like a little low so we were trying not to like throw shadows everywhere but um yeah that that was that was really great like if i yes i could always be prepping at basically at the stages where art is building at the same time i would i would always do that for sure yeah well i think it's it's a better uh i think creatively it's better when everyone i am a big proponent own or have worked from home when it's prudent, you know, uh, certainly a certain like editor and coloring gigs like, at least I personally work better if I'm given like two days to

just hammer it and then present it versus someone over my shoulder. You know, I don't do well. Some people do better that way. But like during production and pre-production, certainly I think it is better if everyone's standing around and it's like, yeah, but not just the, you know, like, every side of the line you know like if you're a debilier walking you see people building sets i'm sure you go like oh that's an interesting thought and then you move on and do something cool with that thought like i'm shooting in the in the police station for malam as that was a found set did you did that change the way that you shot it once you got in there and saw everything yeah i mean that's the whole look so that that movie um is one of those like pretty much all of it is

all in one night, you know, kind of raid on this police station. And, uh, that police station was pretty interesting. It was a, it was right downtown, but, uh, and it was a four story tall the basement. They had a, uh, a jail, like a full floor that was jail tells. Um, and I think actually more prison. Like, I think they actually help people that for an extended period of time or something. Um, but it was just a really crazy building. Like it, we had to get look like a little bit smaller, not so large and it's supposed to look a little more, I think, like kind of rural. But also the thing was all the spots to be picked within that huge building were all away from windows, which was kind of like a blessing and a crash. So it was like, okay,

it's going to be all fluorescent, you know, pretty much. And for that also was helpful because it was like, well, I don't know that we have the means to light through a whole bunch of windows anyway. So yeah, that was like, all right, this is going to be a bunch of, you know, Titan tubes and we're going to set, I just tried to set different light color shifts for different locations to try to help, you know, give you, help you track. Like, okay, this place has like a slightly warmer, fluorescent. These are a little blue. These are bluer. These are cleaner, you know. So that set the whole look. It's like, all right, that's going to be, you know, 80% of this movie. Whereas like, yeah, something like this, we're building everything. And it's like, all right, we can, we can do whatever we want. We can, and especially with the home haunts, you're balancing like, okay, there should be some kind of moonlight for the outdoor sections, but also it can be whatever they installed into this maze.

Right. And so that was fun. Can we just be really playful and find a balance of what feels natural, but also just like what would be fun for them to stick in these different places, lighting wise. Yeah. Yeah, the, I don't know if you have seen, there's this guy on YouTube called, I don't know his name, but his channel's technology connections. And one of this, it's great. He's very, very nerdy.

Mostly talks about like, not hardware in terms of, like, tools, but like air conditioners, uh, adiata. But he has this long running segment about how, how much he hates modern LED. Christmas lights because they because there's and he's not a photographer he's not a cinematography he doesn't know

but he keeps saying things that are just shy of like what we do because it's like he understands that the the um uh why did I try to say fragrance five times um frequency of like coming out of the

white LED with the plastic cap or just the colored LED is not the same as a tungsten bulb wrapped in paint it's so whenever I see these old like um films you know that are trying to replicate that you can tell you can tell what it's like an LED bulb you're like that's not right yeah that was apical of nothing but I was just thinking

like I did love the just the the decoration the hollow the old school Halloween decorations of your guys is uh they also the the witch was very fucked up that was that was that really got out of hand vast yeah I mean that was yeah the so the art directors the normans they are um i would say it's 70 to 80 percent of those Halloween decorations are theirs um they're just huge fans of the holiday um and they just have that stuff even the the stuff in the kind of hidden back room of the antique shop that's all theirs too um and so they just have all that stuff and so as soon as we knew that the theme was going to be Halloween for this it was like oh well this is that's a no-brainer for them like they're

they're for sure going to be able to bring that great Halloween vibe. But yeah, for the witch, I mean, I don't think there is any depiction of a classic, like, green witch that is so brutal like that, which was pretty great to get to do. And it's just like all those, like, classic Halloween, you know, kind of archetypical characters, you know, monsters we think of that aren't those so well-known, but just that, like, kind of classic style and just have them go wild and actually illness with the, It was a fun idea. Well, and her just, like, being able to disappear and shit.

I was like, yeah, ha, dude, that's going to, she's going to be hard to kill. Yeah, yeah. And she's still, I mean, she's still around. I guess. It can be a little hard to see depending on the screen you're watching, but she actually, in the very last shop, she flies past the moon. Really? During that stop motion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, fuck, I missed that. Like, once it went to credits, I was like, all right, moving on. gotta do more research also I thought I was tripping but I was not you got Rick Baker in the film yeah to play just an angry guy

yeah yeah what was it like this is the dumb this is the worst journalism question but what was it like having him on set yeah no it was awesome

he's the nicest dude sir he the Normans actually are friends with him and the our segment has actually inspired by him so he does a pretty elaborate kind of not necessarily like a full maze but he does a Halloween kind of haunts thing

every year in his neighborhood and I guess one year the directors were there and heard one of the older daughters kind of being over it not wanting to to get you know uh put in all this makeup and everything and I guess that stuck with them and so then when this pout up they were like hey this could be one of the great stories to tell so that it was even better to then have him in it and have have him be the guy criticizing what i mean i think is undoubtedly an amazing hot maze i mean he puts together that maze looks insane um yeah it was it was awesome working with him and he was just like the nicest dude and uh and i think it's just also like a really great actor like i think his performance in there so funny uh and just like works well within the town and everything

and then yeah getting to have him killed by a sheet ghost was uh it was pretty awesome Well, and he, like, he kind of, I saw in an interview he did where he was talking about he was kind of upset, not upset, but maybe like a little just bummed that like slasgers became a thing because he considers himself sort of like having a hand in that because he prefer, like, according to this interview, he prefers like sort of more classic horror. Yes, monsters. Monsters. Yeah, yeah. Frankenstein. Yeah, for sure. So I think that was like, that was fun too because he got to see, you know, one day he was there for a couple of the days when we were doing like the witch, which is such a classic old look and the ghouls were around, I think, one of the days to do.

Actually, he was there for the executioner as well. You have to see, sorry, just the way the schedule worked out. He ended up being on set like three days or something just because of like the room, like, oh, this room we have to do here. So he was actually with us a lot and was a great sport about having to be needed so many days. But, yeah, he was, he was just awesome. Like, it was, yeah, you know, sometimes you never know when you meet some of the, you know, people who are, who are legends, really. And it's really always really nice when they're just really great people, you know. Yeah.

Was he given tips? I think he, I mean, I imagine he popped in to check on the makeup and stuff. I was always on set, you know, blocking and everything. So I only really saw him when we were actually. doing rehearsals or shooting and then I sat with him at lunch one day we got to chat and stuff but yeah I think he was I'm sure

he inevitably was was popping in on people just to be what was going on yeah you know I uh I had looked at like I said I had been able to see Malin but I was looking up some stuff you're talking about and one thing that always um I find fun about horror films or at least even even just uh Halloween movies

is they always start normal and then like cinematography but also obviously everything else start normal and then get wacky uh so uh in an interview you did you had said that it that it started naturalistic and then like kind of grimy gothic and i was wondering if you could elucidate like what does that turn look like from a production perspective from a cinematography perspective sure yeah um i mean i think like a lot of that comes down to obviously just what the art team's doing as well with the sets and everything i mean a lot of and the colors like if you want to shoot something that have a certain look or texture in color the best way to do that is have that in front of the camera you know

like right um but then yeah the light lighting wise it was just about leaning into um you know getting a little more expressionistic and um again like the color coming in um And then, I don't know, it's funny because in some ways to me, even though that is, it does get sort of more like, yeah, grimy Gothic look or whatever, like it still feels naturalistic because that's what happens when their cults is raising something from beyond, you know, I'm like, well, that's just natural to the vibe of what's happening. But, yeah, I mean, it's still, it's still leaning into kind of what's air in the scenes. again like a lot of fluorescent light and everything but just bringing in more darkness more shadow and then you know they start studying things on fire which is always really helpful to have firelight

yeah yeah so that kind of brings in that gothic vibe but I don't know it's funny because I didn't yeah that's the thing I didn't go into it thinking like oh now now it's going to get all kind of crazy in gothic it was just like well there's fire light like you know we're in a a space that is, you know, turning, even though it's still, you know, the gun range, and obviously other parts of the police station, you're there and the ceremony is happening. It's like, well, the main fluorescent lights aren't on.

There's light coming from somewhere, but it's, is that real light? Who knows? But, you know, just kind of leaning into, again, what feels natural to that space, but ultimately is, yeah, like otherworldly lights that, you know, but I'm not necessarily, like, thinking about that on the day. It was just like, oh, yeah, it feels like there should be light coming. from here, in this weird void they're in, you know, um, yeah. Yeah.

The, uh, it is fine. I've mentioned this before, but I, I, my joke has always been that there are, there's got to be some cinematography awards that were won by the production designers. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, like this, the DEP goes up there and goes, thank you so much. And then runs off, like, I didn't do shit on that one. Like, yeah. No, it's, I mean, it's true.

It really is like you, and that's why. it's so helpful to work so closely with them. I mean, and like on this one, having them building while we're there, we can check in on colors and on the size of things and keep collaborating so that it's not just you talk ahead of time and then you walk in and see it.

And you're like, oh, that wasn't, it's really close, but it's, you know, we're missing a couple of things. So being able to be there during that process is great.

I did a short with the Norman's, a couple years back called Grummy, but also had some, some really big set builds. It was kind of a similar thing where I was, I just made sure to be there while we were building so that we could just keep that conversation going because you can talk only so much about it and that and you can see mockups and everything.

But until you're like in the physical space, looking at it, trying to look at frames and everything, it, uh, it's just going to be different. There's going to be things you're going to want to speak a little bit. And so, yeah, being able to do that is usually important. And I think, yeah, they're just as, important like our team to my job as my other departments that I work with directly you know when it comes to lighting and grip and camera team so especially on something like this or any I mean really on all of them but

especially something where we're building all these sets it's like they're determining where I can place lights how I can place that you know so that all's conversations we need to have ahead of time and yeah keep keep having us as with bailing yeah you know you mentioned undergrad. I know you went to SC. So I went to University of Florida for undergrad, and then I came out to LA to go to USC for grass school. Yeah. Gotcha. What was the, because I always like to ask, you know, especially the SC, UCLA crowd. And AFI, obviously. But like what having, did you, did you study film in

undergrad? It did. Yeah. Yeah. So US has a great film studies and experimental film program. Also a good documentary, but that leans more towards the MFA. Yeah. But yeah, I actually met one of the directors of this, R.H. We met in undergrad at U.S. We're both Florida boys. So yeah, we've known each other. We're working together for a really long time. Well, that brings up a good point when people talk about film school. And they're always like, what? It's your network. You're networking. It's like, not for now. For a leader. You're 18. No one knows what? What the fuck's going on? But I wanted to know what your experience was going to a sort of prestige, let's say, film school like SC versus your undergrad in terms of like, did you feel like it was just giving you more runway to figure yourself out?

Or was it giving you something that like a traditional undergrad films give? Because I went to Arizona State. And at the time, it wasn't the good Arizona State like it is now. It was quite rough and tumble. Yeah, I mean, the undergrad. So I knew I wanted to go to, like, what we would think of as like, oh, like a film school, film school for grad. Like it's like you were saying, I think it's like if you're going to do that, do it when

you're much closer. In my mind, at least I was thinking, who knows if this is a great advice or anything, but just closer to moving into the actual industry proper as opposed, yes, I'd done an undergrad. Maybe I would have gotten a younger start and maybe that would have been better. Who knows? But I also wanted to get a little bit more. like of a well-rounded education as well before specializing. So the film school at U.S., it really was more of the film studies, you know,

kind of tied into the English major, which was awesome because I was already just consuming everything I could when it came to cinema of every type. But, you know, especially back then, it was harder to get access to certain things. And so when I was at U.F, I got to take Polish cinema class, Czech cinema. There was a martial arts cinema class. That was really great. So all kinds of stuff that made me even more well-rounded than I thought I already was in just my viewing. And then the experimental film program was really interesting because that was not something I was super familiar with at that time.

And I think got me thinking in a different way and was very helpful for, I think, as a cinematographer, too, just so strictly about its own story through images. You know, we were making things that were not shooting normal themes or coverage or anything. or even sometimes not even really with actors. That was really helpful. And then we would just shoot me and the other film students would just shoot narrative step on our own. They're really kind of weird little like,

oh, you're doing experimental, you're just watching everything from everywhere. And then, yeah, making our own little bad narratives movies. And then, yeah, and then USC was like kind of feeling like, okay, we're going into the proper, like here's how you work on set. Here's how, you know, everything's structured and all of that. And then, yeah, meeting people that I still work with today. But that said, yeah, like I said, our amazing directing duo.

I've known R.H since my time in undergrad and my Gaffer as well. We were both at U.S. at the same time. And then he went to FSU for grad and then ended up out here. So I still, you know, I had a lot of people from undergrad that I work with to this day. But, yeah, a lot of people from USC I still work with. it's a good it's a really good program i think i'm sure like any film school it's like what you make of it um you just got to get out and like the on sets every every weekend every project you know i tried to get on and just shoot everything i could so all the they kind of have

certain projects that are um like before you can do a thesis before you might do a thesis film there's some projects that are like little narrative and documentary things that are slightly school funded and you can try to get on those. So I made sure to like shoot both of those and then shot like five or six pieces of films or something. It's just like always be on set shooting. That was definitely the main thing that I tried to do. And I think it was like the most learning is just being out they are doing it and like making mistakes and working with, you know, all the other students and yeah, building those relationships. Yeah. I think we, uh, because again, I'm only I guess four years younger than you roughly. But One thing that kind of was a blessing and a curse was, A, the, you know, digital cameras are a little more accessible. You know, most of us had a D.E camera or, actually, that's not true. I think I might have been the only one. But then when the, you know, your 5Gs and stuff came out, more people started, you know, the, even the rebels, the seven. Yeah, yeah.

People started picking those up. But then at the same time was the prevalence of YouTube. so yeah we stopped not all of us obviously but there was certainly a lot of us who like wouldn't get as you said like sort of get on set every day and try to like make a short we would be like wouldn't it be funny if we made like like we started to lean more jackass than you know the decalogue and uh I think that while it was fun I think looking back on it is like it would have been nice to have just sat on the trying to do what we were there to do and not uh but it's college you know you're having fun yeah well and also like i yeah the whole

film school thing i think is so tricky like it's so dependent on that you know what that person means like i was growing up in florida about as far as i could be from la out here where it felt like a lot was happening at that time um and so that was just a helpful excuse i think also just to move across the country be like okay this is something that feels like it should help to some degree but you know you just You never know. You just have to try to do, I think, whatever you can to be making stuff and meet collaborators you like working with who are making stuff, whether that be film school or just finding the community in your area that's doing that. That was the biggest thing. So when I was growing up, I did all of it. Like, I didn't, I would convince people,

my buddies to, like, be in front of the camera. And otherwise, that was writing, whatever, writing, directing, shooting, doing the music, editing, all that stuff. And so, and I think that helps me figure out what I wanted to do because when you start, you just think, oh, I'm a director because you just think, oh, the director does everything. Right. And then the more I got to collaborate with people, and I was always shooting as well, like, that was clearly something I was interested in and shooting my TV news. I was shooting all kinds of stuff in college as well for work, like commercial stuff, weird infomercials. Like, yeah, I'm running around just reporters on TV news stuff, like everything. But once I got to collaborate at USC in kind of what feels like

a more proper setup on set. That was when I was like, for sure, like, okay, cinematography is what I want to do. Like, that's the best way for me to be telling stories with people, you know. I think that that was really helpful for me as well. Like, just helping clarify that direction. Yeah, I got into cinematography because I was like, well, I can't write. And directing seems stressful.

But I know, I know how cameras, you know, I've been shooting photos and video my whole, literally, my whole life. So I was like, oh, that'll be, a lot of people don't know how cameras work. That's a pretty niche. I'll get into that. And then it very quickly did not become niche. But were you always a horror guy or did you kind of stumble into that? I have always liked horror for sure. But I wouldn't say it's so hard, but, you know, it's like horror fans are real, like legit. They're their own thing. Yes, exactly. So I'm always like slightly hesitant to say.

It's like I am, but I don't know that I have the full cred to say that I am like a true, true horror fan. But I am. I really like pretty much everything. Like I said, I really have been watching everything. You're talking about the decalogue. I mean, all kinds of world cinema, art cinema, popular cinema, all of it. I just love movies. And horror was definitely a part of that.

And yeah, I just have suddenly kind of like found my way over the last. couple years into that world. And it's a really great community of people like to work with. Everyone's super nice. And also it's crazy how it's a big community, but it also feels pretty small, like how fast you're like, oh, hey, like, you know, even on like the Coooochoo Coochoochoo segment, their makeup team and SFX team where the people who did Malum. So I was just like, we're scouting on set. We're just popping by to stay higher on set. But go, hey, like all of a sudden There's people you know from some other projects. And I mean, that always happens on sets, but I feel like within the horror community,

it's like even quicker that you'll bump into people that you know. And I think also just for stuff to shoot, it's been, it's fun because you get to be, I mean, you know, story dependent, but you get to be pretty playful. I always die have lately with the problems I get with your lighting and everything, something like this or Malam. There's a lot of fun excuses to try some wild stuff and have it actually make sense. in the story and not do it just for the fake of doing it. So yeah, it's been, yeah, I really enjoy shooting.

But I mean, I like, the thing I especially love about shooting as well is when I realized in film still I was like, oh, I thought I wanted to be director, but I just realized, oh, no, I had always been more interested anyway in blocking and the camera and working with the actors on that. And the other thing I really loves about is just a variety of stuff I get to work on. It's like if I thought I had been the person writing directing those projects. You're not going to work on as much. You're not going to be on set as much.

And it's not going to be the breadth of different types of things that I can do as a cinematographer. And that's one of my favorite things is, you know, I'd love to do like an action movie sometimes in like that's, that's the ones I'm like dying to do. Sometimes I love choreography and like, um, but really anything to me, it's like it's there's a good scripts and just like great people to work with, you know, then I'm pretty much down for, for any type of project. I, uh, just realized that I did.

do my do-do. I didn't look at your IMDB at all, usually. That's the first what I bring up. But have you shot a sci-fi film? No, not really. Like, there's a short I did back in school at USC that is like, it's not really sci-fi, but it's in like a lab and like a high-tech lab. It's such, you know, not fully science fiction, but as dabbled. But that would be awesome too. Yeah, that would be. That would definitely to something I would love to do. You just reminded me there was this short I saw in speaking of horror. And I just, I just read down.

So I remembered seeing this in like 2003 or something, maybe 2005. I don't know. And it was a lab like and and this guy goes, hey, you want to see this, goes downstairs. And there's like this woman on a table and she's got all these cables in her face. And he's like, and he's like, we can talk to her. And it's a, it's a, it's a, uh, corners situation or something like that. Okay. And for the longest time, I remembered all, because like the end of it, she like starts shaking the looks at the camera.

It's like, boo. But I was like, this is crazy because it was, it was like the production design. I was really good again for like back then and the DV is it terribly DVE. But I was just on the DVX user speaking of DVX. And I fucking found it again. It was on, it was on the, on Zimio somewhere. It was called Talking Dead. Um, okay.

But, yeah, you just reminded it because I just found it again. It was like trying to remember the name of a song for like a decade and a half. Yeah. That's what we want. Yeah, when you finally get it, your mind can rest. No, so yeah, I would love to shoot. So, I mean, like, you know, I mean, everybody, like obviously Blade Runner and Alien is such a great, you know, sci-fi horror mix. I mean, that's, I mean, those are two to the greatest.

Have you been watching the new show, Alien Earth? I have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I've seen some people get like, oh, this wouldn't be realistic. I'm like, shut up, it's fine. Like, people are mad that the guy doesn't have, like, good security. I'm like, who cares?

Shut out. They're pretty cocky dude. So I feel like, you know, he makes a lot of choices that don't make sense, but I think a lot of people. He's also a child. Yeah, yeah. And also, if you think you're the smartest person in the room, then there's a good chance that eventually you'll start underestimating things because yeah you was too long thinking you're the greatest um no i mean not sure let's talk about something that looks incredible like sci-fi that um

that show looks great it's yeah really fun well and even the opening uh my friend bella gonzala shot a few of those episodes i'm going to have her on at some point but uh yeah that opening scene where they basically just ate the first movie shot for shot i was just on the floor because it looks exactly the same like when people talk about film emulation and shit i'm like whatever they did was perfect yeah yeah that mess hall looks yeah but even down to like the sound design and like the shot like the shot selection it was it was exact i would love to see a fucking uh like side by side comparison of them yeah i even love the way they do um at the opening opening of every episode while the text pops in like it does that's like they're previously on

it's just flashes of images of like the last week um i think that's just even that is such a great job of capturing like the initial vibe of how those movies started you know so yeah a lot a lot of care went into that for sure that show is just yeah so low made i used to i used to ask this at the beginning of every show because I didn't know where to start but um is there anything else you've been watching that uh you've been liking um yeah i'm sure well uh uh just went to one battle after another couple times i heard it's incredible oh it is it is yeah so i'm not too far from the i max uh at city walk that is like the the biggest one here in l a And, yeah, I would recommend anyone, if you can go see it on the biggest IMAX screen, you can find 7-1-N-il-never.

IMAXs, yeah, it's pretty great. Because it uses the, I mean, I guess, because it's Vista Vision, that's not technically the full, it wouldn't be this whole scale of shooting on an IMAX camera. But they, like, I assume just did, like, a blow-up, basically. But it looks, I mean, looks amazing. And I'm just a sucker for anything that's, like, taking up that full radio. of the iMac screen is just so enveloping and like that to me that almost like feels like going and seeing something in 3d because it's just there and so present um so that alone but also it's just an amazing movie it's it i mean um i'm a fan of all of his stuff but this one to see him do something if the scale um it's just yeah it's pretty uh staggering i'm kind of stoked that this division is starting to like get really traction just because, you know, we're all shooting full-frame cameras now anyway. Like, go back to using it on film.

And I know IMAX is making these new IMAX cameras that, like, are actually blimped. Doesn't sound like a second lawnmower going off. But I don't know, you be a little smaller too, yeah. Yeah, they're a little more shoulder. God, seeing Autumn shooting sinners, like with the thing on her, I was like, oh, that poor girl. Every time they're all these photos pictures of Hoytza, too. It's just like, yeah, that looks. But at least Hoyt is like kind of like a stalky guy, you know.

I certainly don't think I could handle an IMAX camera for longer than a minute. Yeah, that needs to be short takes. Yeah. But VistaVision, I feel like is that nice and obviously IMAX is rad. Like it's objectively rad. But I think VistaVision is the nice middle ground, just like, you know, full frame is. It looks great. Yeah, I think we're going to try to go, I think it's to go soon to the Vesta to see the proper.

vision like the projection um so i'm excited to check that out soon as well yeah yeah best best i got is the uh well that sucks because the they used to be over on at the it's no longer a mall but there was a mall on the west side that had like all these it was uh retrofitted for hateful eight so they had the uh which 70 million projector in there with he there uh it was it was um it. It's a landmark and on Fico. It was a landmark.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not there you know. Yeah, that's sad that that one was. I like, well, it was great.

The mall was fine. But that I loved that theater, especially because upstairs they would have these, you know, if a movie wasn't selling super well, they'd just put it in the small theater. They had like eight couches in it.

Yeah. And I would go there all the time and just like bring a few friends and we'd take over one of those. Yeah, because it's way better than your home team. Yeah, like a private theater. Yeah. Where I grew up in Orlando, there was a theater called the Enzion that was a one screen.

And they did. They were like early before there was Alamo and stuff where it was like tiered and there was tables and chairs and you could order like kneels and stuff. But down on the bottom of the tiers was just couches and everything. So we would all live. Yeah, go there. And it was crazy. Like, oh, you're just sitting on a couch like getting to watch a full theater experience.

That was really great. Yeah. The best I got now is over here at that Century City Mall. But that's a very nice theater. Like I, I mean, I don't think it's like. They don't have a real. It's a limax. Yeah.

It's a lot. But it's still like in terms of theaters, like you've got every, you know, all you bullies, all your all that. Like the, they keep it clean. It's nice. Drinks are $400. So don't go to a stupid little McDonald's. It's bar, but, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, we got a piece meters alive, I guess.

Yeah, uh, I will say it would be worth to drive to, uh, it's a city walk to see, see about. I love this city walk, especially now that it, it's been renovated, you know, a couple years ago. Um, I actually saw, uh, the Dark Knight trilogy, I think, pretty sure it was the whole trilogy in IMAX when the third one came out. Nice. They did like a re, yeah, like a reels. Yeah. And it was me and my buddy Gabe.

And I remember, you know, we'd like, we ate lunch, I think, went and saw the first one, went to like a bar, went and saw the second one, went and got dinner, went and saw the third. Because the city walk, you know, fuck. You got everything there. Got it all. Yeah. I love those. I feel like, yeah, when I saw the dark night, I, we drove down from Gainesville where we were at for U.F.

A couple hours to Orlando because they had out by the amusement parks. There was a theater that had like a really. true iMac screen like the kind where the seating is so vertical you almost feel like yeah you're like you better not trip on anybody because you'll just like tumble and i still i always remember the feeling i got when that first helicopter shot is like pushing in on that building the glass blows out and you almost feel like a vertigo like you're going to fall down and i feel like i almost am chasing that feeling out of every time i go to i'm like i want to feel so enveloped yeah so can i say one of my fondest memories ever

was opening night dark night I don't think it was an IMAX no it must have been because it was at City War yeah anyway it was I didn't realize that everyone was holding their breath at the very end of the film when he's on the bike and he's getting away

and he hits an off ramp and then it just goes to the dark night the entire audience which was dead silent leaps to their feet and goes like just starts screening and I and I've never experienced that I they didn't do that in fucking endgame obviously I end game everyone was like we like there was a lot of yay but like I've never felt a like explosion like at the end of the dark night yeah that was a

triumph of cinema going I I feel like I felt that a little bit on we weren't on the weekends to see one battle and in IMAX and then on Monday I was like I want to go again And I went to, like, the first showing in the morning. And I feel like this always happens. I bumped into a ton of people I know or film people. I feel like it's the weekend, something that's really for, you know, us comes out the Monday after the first weekend. At Citywalk, you're going to, that's where everyone is. Like, everyone goes to that first showing.

I don't know why, but I could tell. It's just, like, great responses from there were on the weekend as well. But it's not, like, even more heightened. Like, it's like, oh, man, this is the crowd I wanted to see this with. And then, yeah, inevitably, I walk out and I'm like, oh, there's an AD I know. There's all these people's like, all this film crew going Monday morning. Yeah. I saw the new planet of the apes film.

And me and my friends are all sitting there. And again, at City at Century City. And I just look over and I look at my sister and she's just bug-eyed, which confirmed what I saw, which was Andre 3000. It was just sitting there. But just talking about fun theater things. When I saw Fall Guy, I just happened to, I went by myself. I happen to be sitting in a group of probably 20 stunt people who did not work on the film. They were just stoked.

It's a stunt movie. And that was a very fun, you know, environment to be around because they were picking up on stuff that I sort of understood, but not really. So I could tell, like, when they nailed it, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. I'm hoping that I'm hoping that I have a feeling that theater going is coming back. Like, PPCA having these experiences. Yeah, I think so.

That's something that's really important. to me. I, uh, I, there was a bit of time in between, uh, my undergrad and when I came out to USB that I was actually working as a film projectionist part time. Oh, cool. Uh, went when it was actually film. Um, I would build up prints and, you know, project them. That was all really interesting to get to learn. Um, but I'd always look going to lose anyway. And then I actually met my wife at, uh, one of the theaters I was working on at that time. Um, and she, she works in the theater and she actually works with landmark. And, Um, so yeah, so theaters are like very important.

This loves the theater experience and I, yeah, I, I do hope it feels like, that's, that's why I love this push lately for, for IMAX and these large formats and getting people out there and really like, you know, experience something that you, yeah, you like cannot get that at home. Like, it's just, that is never going to come close. So, um, yeah, I love it. I know I got to let you go here in a second, but did you ever go to those, um, I feel like they must have happened in Florida. The like science centers that had the dome IMAX.

Mm-hmm. Yes. I feel like that partially is what wanted to get me into filmmaking. Because growing up in the San Francisco area, there was like, I'm exaggerating, but it felt like there was like 10 of them. You know, like every museum had a dome, it felt. And just that, that is, in my opinion, that's better than 3D. Yeah.

That feels awesome. I agree. I mean, that's, yeah, the same thing for me, that anything that's the truest, I max screen that I can find that to me is yeah like that's 3d to me that's 3d that's 4dx like I'm in it I don't need my seat to move you know um but uh but uh yeah we had a science center here where I was growing up that had yeah that like almost yeah full encapsulating I mean that that that's that's crazy we also had because we were near Epcot had um I can't remember the name of that format but you know the uh it basically did a almost 180 screen that would go

rounds. And so the camera they shot that on had like three lenses that would shoot. You could kind of see like a stitch. But it was- Seyrama? Yeah, that was a lesbian format. Yeah. That was also really cool. I remember loving it. It's like it was that now screen X or whatever. It's definitely playing with that idea where they project the kind of extra content on the walls in the theater. So you have the movie and then there's like stuff in your periphery going by. Yeah. It's interesting. At Adobe Max, I met a guy who shoots, like, his whole career has been shooting those

scientific films for the dome. And he said that on the IMAX cameras, on theirs, they have a very specific ground glass that has this, like, kind of dome X marking because they realized very quickly that everyone can only pay attention to, like, where a traditional screen would kind of be. So they have to frame these films for the projection. like everything's in the lower like one third center because everything else is going to be out here in your like you said in your periphery so it's the second you have fish going over here it's like no one's doing that we go up yeah let's send it to you it's a wacky frame guide yeah I would love to see that

yeah I mean that's what kind of happened with the IMAX fest as well even as like it is kind of a lot of center punching I feel like and especially because all the different forefront yeah yeah you're having to think about it's like which i mean that could be potentially a little bit of a bummer that says limit your framing um but uh you know for for the right stories i think it's definitely worth it yeah i noticed that on sinners but i also saw sinners at home i wasn't able to catch it in the theater but i did notice a lot of like head state center on the on the cross you know and i was like yes uh but they are going to crop it aren't they so yeah yeah record hoars to talk about that or yeah anyone who's shooting on iMexia at tesli it's a lot of

semi-punching but yeah it's just so it's just so engrossing i think yeah but um so yeah but you not everything is too shy but i would love and it's used to maybe when uh those new cameras roll out it'll be a little easier to a degree maybe at some point to to get a hands on one of those yeah hopefully they make more than 10 or however them yeah whatever they have this yeah I think we're probably barely in double-digit scenario. Yeah. Well, it was great talking to, man. Thanks for spending the hour with me.

And, yeah, at least, again, I'll have to check. I'm not a big horror guy. So I'll have to check out Malam kind of doing the blinders. But VHS was a lot of fun. Oh, thanks for him. Yeah, yeah. That is, I mean, I don't at least there's some humor and it's not, it's not too bleak.

You know, telling a lot of kids. But at least we're having a good time. So fair enough. All right. Well, I'll catch you, man. Catch you later, man. Stay in touch. Yeah. Thanks. Frame and Reference is an Albot production, produced and edited by me, Kenny McMillan.

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